#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-23

[01:57:06] <DJ9DJ> moin
[01:57:56] <micges> hi
[02:14:36] <Guest75922> hi
[02:15:15] <Guest75922> can u suggest a guide 4 linux cnc
[02:19:31] <micges> Guest75922: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
[02:20:15] <Guest75922> thnkz
[04:20:25] <Loetmichel> mornin
[06:10:00] <z00z> huh? this is emc channel ? :)
[06:14:59] <Loetmichel> z00z: depends
[06:15:25] <z00z> :)
[06:15:29] <Loetmichel> if you are into CNC: yes, if you are looking for storage solutions no
[06:15:34] <z00z> heh
[06:15:49] <z00z> what about powerpath over CNC ? :)
[06:16:40] <Loetmichel> whats powerpath?
[06:26:22] <micges> z00z: rather not
[06:29:52] <z00z> :)
[06:29:59] <z00z> J/K
[06:33:07] <micges> np
[07:14:20] <alex_joni> Loetmichel: http://www.emc.com/storage/powerpath/powerpath.htm
[07:43:34] <Thiel> hi folks i just compiled the new git and the config is telling me sudo make setuid what is this for
[07:44:25] <jdhNC> you have to be root to suid
[07:44:44] <jdhNC> the program has to be suid to be run by non-root users.
[07:45:09] <Thiel> ah ok so i need to do this
[07:45:36] <jdhNC> unless you only want to run it as root or sudo and run it.
[07:45:46] <Thiel> ok
[07:46:29] <jdhNC> whether or not it is a gaping security hole is different.
[07:46:49] <Thiel> Thanks
[07:49:27] <Loetmichel> alex_joni: ok, nothing important for linuxCNC ;-)
[08:10:55] <alex_joni> Loetmichel: nope
[08:11:27] <alex_joni> running with sudo might not work
[08:11:50] <alex_joni> ah, Thiel left already
[08:19:32] <Loetmichel> *hrmpf* cleaning up my mess... already filled the fifth 120liters trash bag... and have a man high pile of paper/carton outside the room... was definetly time.... :-(
[08:19:44] <Loetmichel> thats a week-filling job it seems...
[08:20:23] <jdhNC> every time I do that I try to remember that you can clean up periodically and it isn't so bad.
[08:20:29] <jdhNC> but, I don't.
[08:20:55] <Loetmichel> seems familliar ;-)
[08:22:39] <alex_joni> heh
[08:22:57] <Loetmichel> ... and my wife is cutting up corrugated boxes in the living room. has already filled the second trashcan (240 l)... it seems we are ordering to much online ;-)
[08:23:45] <jdhNC> my daughter has turned in to an online-buying junkie
[08:23:54] <jdhNC> she says she got it from me though.
[08:25:21] <Loetmichel> if i wouldnt live in a rented flat i would organize a "bronx" oil barrel.. and burn the paper... but thats not allowed in germany, and germans are a bit easy with filing a complaint at the police...
[08:27:28] <Loetmichel> the "nice" thing: to get rid legally of the trash i have to drive it to the tras burning plant... for 7,5 Eur each car fill... which has oben for the public only on saturdays between 9 and 12 o'clock
[08:27:58] <Loetmichel> ... and then tey wonder of the wild trash dumps appearing in the woods.
[08:28:02] <jdhNC> I stick the cardboard/etc. in the recycle bin and they pick it up every week
[08:28:28] <alex_joni> jthornton, JT-Shop: these look somehow cost-effective: http://www.dborerrods.com/rod_price.htm
[08:28:36] <alex_joni> the rest are all above 1500$
[08:29:09] <jdhNC> $700 for a fishing pole is cost-effective?
[08:30:00] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: right. we have two cardboard bins a 240 l ... for 4 familys... emptied by the city every four weeks...
[08:30:19] <alex_joni> well, apparently for handmade bamboo fly fishing rods it is
[08:30:25] <JT-Shop> yikes
[08:30:29] <Loetmichel> tras the same but only 2 bins 120 l and emptied weekly
[08:30:45] <Loetmichel> NEVER enough space
[08:31:56] <jdhNC> you would really have to like to fish for that.
[08:32:51] <jdhNC> I use a ~48inch metal rod for fish.
[08:32:52] <Loetmichel> hrhr... my fishing pole is made of fibre glass and had cost 8.95 eur...
[08:33:10] <Loetmichel> ... a "dip-stick", no spindle for the line...
[08:33:33] <Loetmichel> (is that the right term?)
[08:33:33] <jdhNC> that isn't very effective in 50m water.
[08:34:03] <JT-Shop> nice looking rods for sure
[08:34:38] <Loetmichel> no, but enough to get a meal or two in the camping if a river or a sea is nearby
[08:35:03] <Loetmichel> and its not meant to do more. ;-)
[08:35:41] <Loetmichel> (to be honest i would rather use some net or something, i consider fising with a rod somewhat ineffective) :-)
[08:36:31] <jdhNC> me too.
[08:37:00] <jdhNC> I take a speargun and concentrate on stupid fish.
[08:37:12] <Loetmichel> dynamite? ;-)
[08:38:06] <jdhNC> nope, I have dove with people that used spears with powerheads. .357 or sometimes 5.56mm shells in the tip.
[08:39:10] <Loetmichel> oh... going for the BIG fish?
[08:41:04] <jdhNC> not always big, just easier to deal with if they die instantly.
[09:16:42] <joe9> djdelorie: were you able to get the contouring operation in heeks to work? it coredumps for me.
[10:03:38] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what are you using for steplen and stepspace on your plasma cutter?
[10:03:43] <Tom_itx> standard numbers?
[10:03:48] <Tom_itx> 40000
[10:04:44] <Tom_itx> i tried testing with my old controller but it's step timing was way off for these drivers
[10:04:53] <jdhNC> 40000 is a long time
[10:04:57] <JT-Shop> let me look
[10:05:00] <Tom_itx> i need to put it on the scope
[10:05:04] <Tom_itx> jdhNC that is default
[10:05:53] <Tom_itx> i wanna try to get both controllers working with them
[10:05:56] <Tom_itx> if possible
[10:06:07] <Tom_itx> but i'll get linuxcnc going first
[10:09:00] <JT-Shop> DIRSETUP = 200
[10:09:00] <JT-Shop> DIRHOLD = 200
[10:09:00] <JT-Shop> STEPLEN = 1000
[10:09:00] <JT-Shop> STEPSPACE = 2000
[10:09:12] <Tom_itx> for gecko drivers?
[10:11:02] <Tom_itx> gecko docs say they want a 50% duty square wave on step
[10:11:15] <Tom_itx> 2000 / 1000 isn't 50%
[10:11:35] <Tom_itx> but apparently it works :)
[10:12:46] <Tom_itx> ok, off again. bbl
[10:12:52] <Tom_itx> i'll read any comments later
[11:05:34] <djdelorie> joe9: so far, I've only used profile, pocket, and drill
[11:05:47] <DJ9DJ> namd
[12:10:06] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: getting it worked out?
[12:10:32] <Aero-Tec> yes
[12:10:39] <Aero-Tec> I got a new lathe
[12:10:41] <Aero-Tec> LOL
[12:10:49] <Aero-Tec> one other thing
[12:11:03] <Aero-Tec> you asked why am I moving from mach
[12:11:20] <Aero-Tec> I see mach used in all the small machines
[12:11:26] <Aero-Tec> toys mostly
[12:12:19] <Aero-Tec> but the real big ones used in industry and used every day to make things all run EMC
[12:13:56] <skunkworks> The brain washing has started Bah Ha ha ha ha... ;)
[12:14:49] <jdhNC> if mach suits your purposes and you are happy with windows, there is no reason not to use it.
[12:14:55] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:16:04] <Aero-Tec> true
[12:16:29] <archivist> "your purpose" has to be a restricted set though :)
[12:16:32] <Aero-Tec> but if your needing to rely on your machine, it is not the right choice
[12:16:43] <IchGuckLive> mach is now on every china aplication so im guessing someone is gone devel it sooner
[12:17:06] <Aero-Tec> Matt is making mach4
[12:17:15] <jdhNC> still?
[12:17:18] <Aero-Tec> redoing it from the ground up
[12:17:23] <Aero-Tec> yes still
[12:17:26] <archivist> not every, we are aware of the chinese looking at linuxcnc
[12:17:36] <jdhNC> all by himself?
[12:17:51] <archivist> who else is there :)
[12:18:00] <Aero-Tec> he has some help
[12:18:19] <IchGuckLive> i got for the Foam patch for linuxcnc more then 6.000 requests
[12:18:42] <IchGuckLive> and theairfoil system is also in the 2nd tousend
[12:19:20] <Aero-Tec> mach is nice for the home hobbyist, but it is not a good option for guys that want do go some real work
[12:20:23] <Aero-Tec> I know there are guys using mach for production but I bet they would be better off using EMC
[12:20:37] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Foam Patch ?
[12:21:30] <skunkworks> I think a lot of mach users just 'put up with it'
[12:21:34] <IchGuckLive> Connor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd4KejP1b48
[12:21:49] <jdhNC> I've heard some people only have one computer.
[12:22:08] <skunkworks> mach4 has been hyped up so much that it will probably never live up to what people expect.
[12:22:33] <skunkworks> but - time will tell
[12:23:10] <Connor> oh. okay. because a foam cutter has 2 points to it's "Z" with the wire in between.
[12:24:02] <IchGuckLive> Connor: therfor we run 2 plane systems
[12:24:10] <Connor> got it.
[12:24:32] <IchGuckLive> Connor: i made also a quick generator tutorial
[12:25:12] <Connor> I'm not doing foam, just surprised me when I saw that EMC needed a patch to handle it..
[12:25:17] <IchGuckLive> and ofcause the airfoil generator that is able to combinate all 1500 available airwingdata
[12:25:48] <IchGuckLive> Connor: now its in the git and will find its way to master soon
[12:26:01] <Connor> I need to figure out how to get my charge-pump, external E-stop and EMC's software estop working together.
[12:26:29] <Connor> I've got it working with charge-pump + external estop, but, the software button (or F1) does nothing..
[12:26:50] <Connor> OR, I had it working were I had to hold both my push-to-start external button, and click the POWER button..
[12:26:56] <Connor> but, neither is what I want.
[12:27:10] <Connor> any ideas on what I need to look at ?
[12:27:38] <Aero-Tec> anyone see this?
[12:27:40] <IchGuckLive> did you set and reset at the same time
[12:27:45] <Aero-Tec> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7cjo4kTYMw
[12:27:53] <Connor> IchGuckLive: How do you mean ?
[12:28:14] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: yes - he is doing some pretty cool stuff
[12:28:29] <jdhNC> you didn't replace the sofware start button with the pushbutton?
[12:28:51] <Connor> No.
[12:29:04] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: hard running axis
[12:29:23] <Connor> I have a push-to-start, or maybe that's miss labeled.. more like push-to-reset.
[12:29:52] <Connor> If the machine is E-stopped. you have to re-enable the estop, then push the button.
[12:30:02] <skunkworks> Connor: I have only done it using ladder... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Sample_HAL_And_ClassicLadder
[12:30:14] <skunkworks> ladder example 4
[12:30:43] <skunkworks> I think there is an estop hal component - but I have not tried it.
[12:31:04] <skunkworks> with example 4 - both the software estop button and external estop work as expected.
[12:31:20] <Connor> that makes the connection on the charge pump relay, which allows the Break Out Board to be enabled, so it can send the signal to the charge pump, which then engages the relay and thus, keeps the break out board enabled, the spindle relay enabled, and the stepper drivers enabled.
[12:31:27] <IchGuckLive> Connor querry !
[12:31:39] <Connor> Looking it over.
[12:32:24] <IchGuckLive> you need to set and rset the hal at the sametime in a given order
[12:32:27] <Aero-Tec> can you imagine this machine running mach and deciding to make a full speed run in some direction or other?
[12:32:29] <Aero-Tec> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M
[12:33:35] <Aero-Tec> this guy has been doing CNC for a long time, and has been running EMC for over 15 years I am told
[12:33:51] <skunkworks> Connor: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/man/man9/estop_latch.9.html (I have never used it)
[12:34:18] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Not sure what your saying.. but looks like your talking about some sort of toggle?
[12:34:25] <Aero-Tec> if he can trust EMC with that machine I know I do not have to worry about EMC screwing up and taking off on it's own
[12:34:38] <Connor> skunkworks: I was thinking of of latch too.. but, couldn't find a good example of it being used.
[12:34:55] <Connor> and, I really don't want to use ladder if I can help it..
[12:34:56] <archivist> Aero-Tec, the clever thing about the cinci retrofit is the kins which fix the original machine errors on manufacture
[12:35:13] <IchGuckLive> Connor: yes there are 2 halpins for etch E-stop and Mashine on
[12:35:21] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: that is stuart in Wichita - we have had a few fests there..
[12:35:21] <Aero-Tec> I heard about that
[12:35:51] <jdhNC> you could use a hw self-latching relay?
[12:35:51] <Aero-Tec> nice machine
[12:35:57] <Aero-Tec> I would love one
[12:36:05] <IchGuckLive> emc->linuxcnc
[12:36:06] <Aero-Tec> not sure what I would do with it
[12:36:10] <Aero-Tec> but I want one
[12:36:12] <Aero-Tec> lol
[12:36:27] <IchGuckLive> Aero-Tec: PCB 10mil
[12:36:28] <Aero-Tec> EMC is shorter
[12:36:35] <Aero-Tec> lol
[12:36:49] <Connor> jdhNC: That's what I have in a sense.. I'm just missing something on the software side of things.
[12:37:09] <Connor> EMC knows when the external estop is triggered and responds correctly.
[12:37:21] <Connor> I just need it to work with it's own internal buttons.
[12:37:22] <Aero-Tec> how about lcnc
[12:37:29] <Aero-Tec> or lxcnc
[12:37:40] <Aero-Tec> quick and short
[12:37:48] <Aero-Tec> lencnc
[12:38:06] <jymmm> Elsie
[12:38:22] <Connor> what is the pin for E-stop output and for the Power button output ?
[12:41:34] <IchGuckLive> E-STOP
[12:41:36] <IchGuckLive> • halui.estop.activate (bit, in) - pin for requesting E-Stop
[12:41:37] <IchGuckLive> • halui.estop.is-activated (bit, out) - indicates E-stop reset
[12:41:39] <IchGuckLive> • halui.estop.reset (bit, in) - pin for requesting E-Stop reset
[12:42:12] <IchGuckLive> M ACHINE
[12:42:13] <IchGuckLive> • halui.machine.is-on (bit, out) - indicates machine on
[12:42:15] <IchGuckLive> • halui.machine.off (bit, in) - pin for requesting machine off
[12:42:16] <IchGuckLive> • halui.machine.on (bit, in) - pin for requesting machine on
[12:42:53] <IchGuckLive> you need to toggle all 2 estop at the same time
[12:43:08] <Guthur> sorry, hardware related question: is the off centre weight of a gantry spindle ever much a problem
[12:43:13] <IchGuckLive> activate and reset
[12:43:20] <IchGuckLive> and at mashine the on off
[12:43:33] <djdelorie> Guthur: it is for me
[12:43:45] <Guthur> do any designs incorporate a counter balance
[12:44:04] <djdelorie> mie is balanced *if* I have the big router on it, but off-balance if I have the small air spindle.
[12:44:21] <djdelorie> so when using the air spindle, I have to be careful about Z speeds or I break bits
[12:44:35] <IchGuckLive> Connor see side 114 of the integreater manual
[12:45:03] <Guthur> djdelorie: oh i see what you mean there, I was thinking more across the Y
[12:45:08] <Guthur> if that is the right axis
[12:45:09] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2536.html - router on front, motor on back
[12:45:32] <Guthur> /across/along
[12:45:44] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2605.html - air spindle on front instead, rotates around Y if you move Z too fast
[12:45:46] <archivist> Guthur, you need a stiff enough gantry that it should not matter too much, often the gantry is not up to much
[12:46:23] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: is this trapezional spindal or 55°
[12:46:30] <skunkworks> Connor: I think... Fault_in would be hooked to your external estop. ok_in would hooked to user-enable-out . reset would be hooked to user-request-enable and ok_out would be hooked to emc-enable-in
[12:46:32] <Guthur> archivist: i was wondering if it might be cause of the gantry ends coming out of alignment over time
[12:46:36] * djdelorie suspects that moving the two Y rails further apart, and the bearings on the Z rails, would limit rotation
[12:46:43] <djdelorie> trapezoinal?
[12:46:47] <archivist> think rotary stiffness and that is what the cutter does to the gantry
[12:46:49] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[12:47:25] <djdelorie> you mean the Z axis screw?
[12:48:09] <Connor> ok, so what is iocontrol.0.user-enable-out and motion.motion-enabled ?
[12:48:25] <IchGuckLive> djd this is mutch heavyer then a alu rooter
[12:48:29] <Connor> the motion.motion-enabled looks to be the power button...
[12:49:00] <Connor> the iocontrol.0.user-enable-out is the one I see estop using all the time.
[12:49:41] <Connor> lunch here, back in a few
[12:50:23] <skunkworks> Connor: I think the estop hal componant is doing what the rung 4 of the estop example is doing. (with a few more pins for watchdog enable and such)
[12:50:24] <Guthur> djdelorie: your first picture, http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2536.html, is a reasonably example of what i mean. It's off to one side, I was wondering if you where routing on that side for a prolonged period without a counter balance on the opposite end of the gantry that it might cause alignment issues
[12:51:48] <djdelorie> Guther: most cnc routers are set up that way. You have to consider where the forces go if you push the router's nose in each direction (X, Y, Z) and if those forces will encouter something that gives (backlash) or bends
[12:52:30] <djdelorie> In my case, for example, if I push in the Y direction, there's very little rotation around the linear bearings, but the whole gantry will bend left/right due to the weak upright supports
[12:52:38] <archivist> I would expect the bars to flex mid travel
[12:52:58] <djdelorie> if I push in X, there's play in the Z rails so the whole thing rotates around Y
[12:53:09] <Guthur> ok, so you just live with it
[12:53:16] <djdelorie> 1" steel rails only 26" long have very little flex compared to the rest of the machine ;-)
[12:53:36] <djdelorie> Guther: This is a learning machine for me, so I'm learning from my mistakes :-)
[12:53:36] <Guthur> hehe yeah I suppose
[12:53:58] <archivist> everything bends a bit, it just scale of the bend :)
[12:53:59] <Guthur> is that a lead screw?
[12:54:00] <ScribbleJ> Surely if you have predictable backlash you can compensate for it in the gcode.
[12:54:02] <djdelorie> I will probably redo the uprights and brace at some point, once I can reliably mill them
[12:54:19] <djdelorie> the smaller steel thing between the two Y steel rails is a lead screw, yes
[12:54:31] <archivist> ScribbleJ, for some work yes other no
[12:54:48] <Guthur> what sort of bushels are you using on the rails?
[12:54:56] <archivist> ScribbleJ, no climb milling with backlash
[12:55:09] <djdelorie> ScribbleJ: the problem is, pressure from the cutter itself can also compensate for backlash, so it's tricky to know what linuxcnc needs to do
[12:55:20] <ScribbleJ> That makes sense.
[12:55:33] <djdelorie> Guther: they're linear ball bearings for X and Y, and just aluminum rod in copper pipe for Z
[12:55:36] <ScribbleJ> I'm new to milling -- waiting on my CNC router frame to arrive so I can actually begin.
[12:55:53] <djdelorie> ScribbleJ: cut first, worry about accuracy later :-)
[12:56:32] <ScribbleJ> But I've built 3D printers and written firmware for them... it's interesting how the state of CNC in 3D printing compares to this project.
[12:56:36] <archivist> cut first, learn mistakes, fix errors, rinse repeat
[12:56:45] <Guthur> djdelorie archivist : cheers for the input
[12:56:46] <ScribbleJ> That makes sense. There's a lot to learn.
[12:57:41] <archivist> I could not cut steel with my mill on first build as the column was far too flexible
[12:58:06] <djdelorie> I'm not even sure I can cut brass or aluminum, I don't have any useful chunks to play with at the moment
[12:58:58] <ScribbleJ> Are you guys using mills, or do either of you have a larger router table?
[12:59:09] <ScribbleJ> s/mills/mills exclusively/
[13:00:04] <archivist> I have turned on one of the mills and milled in a lathe, do whatever you want
[13:01:23] <Guthur> djdelorie: one more question...for now...what are you using for axis drive, servos or steppers?
[13:04:33] <archivist> Guthur, see his http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/ page for his motor drives
[13:06:03] <Guthur> archivist: cheers
[13:10:07] <djdelorie> steppers are the easy way to go, but I got the servos as surplus so I used those
[13:10:41] <ScribbleJ> That's a nice lookin machine!
[13:11:42] <archivist> some do pretty some (me ) do fugly
[13:12:00] <ScribbleJ> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2511.html That's an interesting way to drive a timing belt.
[13:12:03] <ScribbleJ> Haaa
[13:12:08] <ScribbleJ> The one on the drill I mean.
[13:12:59] <Connor> skunkworks: you mean the estop_latch ?
[13:14:02] <ScribbleJ> Where did you source the smooth rod and bearings for that build? That looks like some thick rod. That stuff is $$$ everywhere I look.
[13:14:26] <skunkworks> yes the estop_latch hal componant -I think- acts similar to the rung 4 of the ladder example
[13:15:23] <djdelorie> yeah, once I hooked up the nut I needed a way to move the gantry around
[13:15:38] <djdelorie> ScribbleJ: it was all surplus a friend brought over
[13:15:42] <ScribbleJ> Dang.
[13:15:46] <ScribbleJ> I need friends like that.
[13:15:47] <archivist> ScribbleJ, you could just ask for ground steel rod from your local steel supplier
[13:16:19] <djdelorie> The only thing I actually spent money on, on that project, was the electronics (even though I designed them myself, I still had to pay for parts)
[13:16:25] <djdelorie> (electronic parts, that is)
[13:16:31] <ScribbleJ> I'll look into that. I definitely need a way to source this stuff that's cheaper than going to a linear motion parts supplier.
[13:16:43] <archivist> should be cheaper than a cut length from a + profit cnc supplier
[13:17:15] <djdelorie> I've seen quite a few designs that use roller blade bearings and wood/metal with aluminum angle iron
[13:17:32] <archivist> ScribbleJ, but there are other ways depends on primary use of the machine
[13:18:05] <archivist> or just get a scrap machine and retrofit
[13:18:22] <IchGuckLive> Connor: iocontrol.0.user-enable-out is only to tell you
[13:18:49] <IchGuckLive> Connor: if soomeone has hit this button and its state
[13:19:00] <Connor> inside the gui ?
[13:19:52] <IchGuckLive> you need to read this for checking the state of your buttons to be in the right position
[13:20:37] <djdelorie> http://stevesfixitshop.blogspot.com/2012/02/linear-bearings-x-axis.html
[13:20:49] <Connor> okay, yea, so, I need IT and external estop to both be active to enable the charge pump...
[13:21:04] <IchGuckLive> Connor: look at configs SIM Axis Gladvcp manual example.hal
[13:21:17] <ScribbleJ> Ahhhh
[13:21:23] <ScribbleJ> djdelorie, that's an interesting concept!
[13:21:53] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Link ?
[13:22:52] <IchGuckLive> Connor: in your config file folder
[13:23:09] <Connor> Oh, okay, it'll be a while.. not in the shop ATM.
[13:23:57] <Connor> My original thinking was to use the and2 hal component..
[13:24:06] <Connor> estop_latch might work too..
[13:24:40] <Guthur> ScribbleJ: depending on the size of your machine MakerSlide might do
[13:24:54] <Guthur> seems a very cost effective linear bearing, I have not tried it though
[13:25:39] <Connor> I'm just not sure about the rising edge part of it..
[13:26:32] <IchGuckLive> Connorhttp://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/ladder/ladder_examples_fr.html#_external_e_stop
[13:29:33] <skunkworks> Connor: what I said above worked here.. I setup a estop_latch hal componant. then manually set the estop_latch.0.fault-in (it would be hooked to your external estop) from false to true and the machine went into estop. could not use the program estop button until the external (estop_latch.0.fault-in) pin was set to 'false'
[13:30:31] <Connor> skunkworks: okay, what about the "reset" pin ?
[13:30:46] <skunkworks__> net estop-loopout iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in estop-latch.0.ok-out
[13:30:48] <skunkworks__> net estop-loopin iocontrol.0.user-enable-out estop-latch.0.ok-in
[13:30:50] <skunkworks__> net resetestop iocontrol.0.user-request-enable estop-latch.0.reset
[13:31:16] <skunkworks> (and you would have to hook estop_latch.0.fault-in to your external estop.)
[13:31:28] <Connor> it's pin 15
[13:31:45] <skunkworks> (and add the hal component and function)
[13:32:15] <Connor> okay. I'll give that a try.. That look slike my best bet.. and tie the charge-pump to the watchdog
[13:32:53] <skunkworks__> it seems to work exactly like the ladder I am using on the K&T
[13:33:04] <skunkworks__> (I should remember that)
[13:33:10] <Connor> I would need to invert my external estop since fault must be false ?
[13:33:34] <skunkworks> how ever so the pin would go 'true' when it was in estop
[13:34:15] <Connor> currently it's tied to +5v, and NC loop, so, e-stop condition would be floating.
[13:35:03] <Connor> okay.
[13:35:11] <Connor> I'll try that later this evening.
[13:37:01] <Connor> After a E-stop event... I have to rest the external e-stop if that was tripped. then, push my external reset button, which allows the charge pump to latch, then, I can push the green button on my spindle to enable the spindle, because it trips it's internal latch, that has to be reset.
[13:37:07] <Connor> Which, I think is a good thing.
[13:38:02] <jdhNC> green button should reset everything to ready-to-run condition.
[13:38:17] <jdhNC> s/green/start/
[13:38:20] <skunkworks> my estop cuts power to everything but the computer and logic supplies.
[13:38:23] <Connor> I need to re-arrange a few things for my stepper drivers, because I want those to disable if I have the power button toggle.
[13:39:19] <Connor> jdhNC: I have 2 resets, the one for the controller, and then the one built into the G0704 spindle.. as you know. If you pull AC and plug it back in, it trips it's internal latch.
[13:39:30] <skunkworks> (we have 2 2hp motors, 5hp vfd, servo supply transformer, coolant pumps..)
[13:39:40] <jdhNC> yeah, I don't like that one on the spindle
[13:40:10] <Connor> I'm pulling the red panic button off.. No need for it now.. but leaving the red/green buttons in place.
[13:40:49] <jdhNC> if the machine is ready to run, and spindle motor is in auto speed, you shouldn't have to push another button
[13:40:55] <Connor> and since we have spindle to speed detection, it's no big deal.. it will wait for the machine to reach speed..
[13:41:20] <jdhNC> that would be better anyway.
[13:41:32] <Connor> what I just said ?
[13:41:42] <Connor> When I get it all working, I'll do a video.
[13:41:43] <jdhNC> yes. I have no spindle feedback at the moment.
[13:42:00] <jdhNC> therefore I dislike having the extra spindle start button
[13:42:45] <Connor> Yea, see.. I do in my setup.. so, that's nice.. I can start the program from the keyboard, and it'll get ready.. and I can check everything on the machine.. and if all looks good, hit the spindle GO button.. and that'll start it up.
[13:43:19] <Connor> Also nice for manual tool change.. you can turn off the spindle without fear that the machine might start it up on you..
[13:43:37] <jdhNC> I need some kind of plugs for passing limits, spindle feedback etc. through the enclosure to the panel
[13:43:38] <Connor> when your done, hit the green button, click the ok button on the screen and your good to go.
[13:44:04] <Connor> I used a single DB9 to go up to my little external control box.
[13:44:45] <jdhNC> I have a 4-pin in the back on my spindle control box that has the enable/disable and analog out to the spindle control
[13:45:07] <jdhNC> I figured the spindle feedback wouldn't end up going through that box.
[13:45:40] <Connor> has push-to-reset, e-stop, +5v, +12v (switched by relay on good condition), spindle pwm, spindle dir, A, B, Z and ground (using DB9 hood)
[13:46:10] <Connor> yea, total of 10 connections. 9 pins and the ground..
[13:46:23] <skunkworks> Connor: have you tried rigid tapping?
[13:46:42] <Connor> Using a CB 4 pin for my Limits, 1 pin for each axis, 4th pin for ground or +5v which ever way I wire it.
[13:46:56] * skunkworks still giggles when he does...
[13:46:59] <Connor> skunkworks: Don't have B up yet, or spindle reverse working yet.
[13:47:08] <skunkworks> ah
[13:47:37] <jdhNC> I have a bunch of DB9's. I'll put some extra cutouts in the enclosure
[13:47:40] <Connor> I need a relay, or H-bridge to reverse the direction.. and I hope to get A+B working soon.. Right now just have Index.
[13:48:00] <Connor> but, I made sure my cable had everything I needed.
[13:48:03] <jdhNC> that relay I posted a few days ago should work
[13:48:35] <Connor> I need to go back and look at how big it is to see if I can fit it into either the main spindle enclosure, or my little control box.
[13:48:55] <jdhNC> it was 110vdc, but only 10amps I think.
[13:49:10] <Connor> I mean physical size
[13:49:30] <Connor> and I'm not sure 10amps is enough. DC motors can have a huge amount of amps on start, or direction change.
[13:49:41] <jdhNC> kind of bulky. I have room in mine due to no C41 there.
[13:49:59] <Connor> I probably have room at the TOP of the enclosure.
[13:50:36] <jdhNC> put it in a box on top
[13:50:54] <Connor> I wonder if they make a solid state relay/h-bridge that can be used for this...
[13:51:10] <jdhNC> DC SSR's seem to be expensive
[13:51:24] <Connor> would have to be DPDT too.
[13:51:49] <jdhNC> I ordered some small project boxes to use as stepper motor->4-pin jack junction boxes to mount under the motor or on the motor standoffs.
[13:52:25] <Connor> jdhNC: I was going to mill some out of plastic in the next few weeks for that.
[13:52:41] <Connor> like those we were talking about the other day, except to fit the 60mm frame.
[13:52:48] <jdhNC> make 3 extra :)
[13:52:58] <jdhNC> he sells them that fit the 60mm frame
[13:53:14] <jdhNC> but they cost more than the motor
[13:53:31] <Connor> CNC4PC doesn't have them... the guy in Australia has them.
[13:53:37] <jdhNC> he makes them
[13:53:56] <jdhNC> huge price difference for just a few mm
[13:54:23] <Connor> I think he's trying to re-coup the mold making.. and they're not as popular as the other size.
[14:23:13] <andypugh> djdelorie: If that is the One+ drill then the LiIon battery is possibly a worthwhile upgrade. They stay charged for ever, it seems.
[14:23:41] <djdelorie> I've been told that: "hey, when the battery on this craps out, but the lithium one"
[14:24:05] <djdelorie> I have two batteries, one stays in the charger, so it's not been a problem yet
[14:25:00] <andypugh> I have the circular saw too. It cut through a 6" x 1" slab of aluminium and the charge indicator still showed green.
[14:25:28] <andypugh> However my underpants were full of swarf.
[14:25:35] <djdelorie> do NOT scratch
[14:50:03] <Connor> andypugh: Yea, I love/hate cutting aluminum with my miter saw. Works great.. I hate the amount of swarf it makes.. and how far that stuff goes!
[14:51:16] <mrsun> shouldnt make any more amount of swarf then anything else you cut with the same cut depth etc :P
[14:54:13] <skunkworks> it is just messier...
[14:54:41] <skunkworks> the band saw doesn't throw the shavings half way across the room.
[14:59:41] <skunkworks> huh - the watchdog in the estop_latch hal componant is an actual watchdog signal..
[14:59:44] <skunkworks> cool
[15:01:50] <Aero-Tec> what is the best ini or starting sting for lencnc?
[15:02:04] <archivist> swarf throwing is good fun! finding it in ones pockets later less so
[15:02:10] <Aero-Tec> G18 G20 G40 G49 G90 G94 G80
[15:02:26] <Aero-Tec> is what I would start my code with
[15:02:30] <archivist> use the right gcode for your machine
[15:02:55] <Aero-Tec> but I see lencnc is a tad more involved then mach was
[15:03:02] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: here is lathe info if you have not seen it... http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/lathe/lathe-user.html
[15:04:25] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: thanks, I had seen it
[15:04:48] <Aero-Tec> but they say nothing about a good starting point to setup your code with
[15:05:12] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: what was you gcode issue yesterday? (where g95 wasn't working?)
[15:05:15] <Aero-Tec> set all the switches in the right place and get things cleared for the new program
[15:05:52] <Aero-Tec> had to deal with something else so I never got to it till now
[15:05:58] <Aero-Tec> working on it
[15:06:08] <Aero-Tec> have not tracked it down yet
[15:07:06] <Aero-Tec> but I am thinking that it has to do with how the cnc controller is configured right now
[15:07:11] <ScribbleJ> If I'm setting up a linuxcnc box today, do I still want ubuntu 10.04 or should I use the new 1204 lts?
[15:07:22] <Aero-Tec> like in some mode that is being a pain
[15:08:40] <Aero-Tec> like when the threading code would not work because of it being in G95 mode instead of G94
[15:08:52] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: Definitely 10.04
[15:09:03] <Aero-Tec> it ran well for you in the sim, so it should run for me here
[15:09:11] <andypugh> 12.04 is on a kernel with no RTAI yet
[15:09:17] <ScribbleJ> OK, thanks
[15:09:57] <Aero-Tec> I was looking for something that would clean up all modes and give a good clean starting point
[15:10:19] <Connor> skunkworks: Meaning I don't have to use the chargepump component ?
[15:10:37] <skunkworks> well - you could still use it..
[15:10:45] <skunkworks> I would take baby steps..
[15:10:52] <Aero-Tec> all compensations off, and offsets and what ever else that could be a left over from some other coding
[15:10:56] <archivist> Aero-Tec, it is something you need to think about knowing your machine and anything you have added/configured
[15:11:01] <Connor> I mean, does it output the 12.5khz signal ?
[15:11:20] <Connor> or just a true/false signal ?
[15:11:47] <skunkworks> Connor: I think it is 1/2 thread freqency. so if it is in the base thread of 1ms - it is 500hz (I think)
[15:12:22] <Connor> Well, that won't work.. I need either a 12.5khz, or have it "enable" the charge-pump .
[15:12:55] <skunkworks> how are you creating the charge pump now?
[15:13:06] <Aero-Tec> I know that G20 or G21 would be a nice thing to have in the INI part of your code, depending on if your doing metric or inch
[15:13:32] <Connor> what ever the standard way stepconf program does it.
[15:14:04] <Connor> but, maybe that's the same thing?
[15:14:19] <Connor> I though it was suppose to do 12.5khz..
[15:15:38] <Aero-Tec> anyway to access a USB drive in lincnc?
[15:16:00] <Connor> okay. 12.5khz is what mach3 puts out.. The valid frequency range for the charge pump is 3000Hz-15500Hz
[15:16:55] <Connor> okay. So I'm good.
[15:17:05] <jdhNC> Aero-Tec: plug it in.
[15:17:39] <Aero-Tec> when I tried to load Gcode from the drive it would not see the drive
[15:17:56] <Aero-Tec> I had to move the code from USB drive to the HD
[15:18:14] <Aero-Tec> tha computer sees the drive
[15:18:24] <Aero-Tec> but lincnc would not
[15:18:49] <jdhNC> I have one I mount under nc_files/
[15:19:23] <Aero-Tec> cool
[15:19:31] <Aero-Tec> so how does one do that?
[15:19:54] <Aero-Tec> add a link to the usb in that dir?
[15:20:04] <jdhNC> a symlink would be the easiest way
[15:20:16] <Aero-Tec> can one do a link and then will it stay there when you pull the USB?
[15:20:21] <Aero-Tec> ok
[15:20:32] <Aero-Tec> will do that
[15:20:33] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[15:20:49] <Connor> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?About_Charge_Pumps has dead link for the Tormach section..
[15:21:45] <jdhNC> it still has emc in it
[15:22:03] <jdhNC> s/emc2/linuxcnc/
[15:26:30] <andypugh> Fixed
[15:29:26] <Connor> okay, I think that's what I need to use.. However, I don't see it using fault.. it looks to just use ok-in.
[15:29:34] <Connor> iocontrol.0.user-request-enable
[15:29:41] <Connor> that the power button,or the E-Stop ?
[15:30:19] <andypugh> I recall someone sayign that the e-stop atch component didn't behave right, or according to it's docs. I don't know if he ever got anything done about it.
[15:30:38] <andypugh> I think there was an argument that existing configs might break if it was changed.
[15:31:11] <Connor> I'll try that as it is and see if it works for me.. if not..I'll play with it..
[15:32:14] <Connor> basicly, I need the charge-pump active if not in e-stop condition. need external estop working, and EMC software e-stop buton working. I then want to tie the software POWER button to the stepper enable output.
[15:35:02] <andypugh> I think it is all reasnably easy. I seem to have what you describe pretty much without really having to think about it.
[15:35:27] <Connor> what are you using in your config for that?
[15:35:30] <skunkworks> andypugh: Playing with it - I think the watchdog signal should be activated when the reset get twiddled.
[15:36:08] <skunkworks> some bobs have to have the watchdog signal before they will send the enable signal back to emc.
[15:36:29] <Connor> Yea, my watchdog MUST be active in order for the e-stop clear condition can be reported to EMC.
[15:36:57] <andypugh> I don't necessarily think you ever want to disable the watchdog.
[15:37:17] <skunkworks> andypugh: that is one way... :)
[15:37:30] <andypugh> ie, if linuxCNC is up and running, then the watchdog can run becaue LinuxCNC is in control.
[15:37:32] <skunkworks> (and would probably work just fine for connor
[15:38:18] <andypugh> The watchdog will stop barking if HAL stops, or the PC freezes, or whatever, but if LinuxCNC is working normally, then the watchdog should be twiddling.
[15:38:23] <Connor> skunkworks: Exactly. The C10 BOB has a enable on it, and if you disable it, it disables the buffer between the parport and the charge pump.
[15:38:56] <Connor> I think for my software based E-Stop to work, I have to kill the watchdog.
[15:39:22] <Connor> That's the only way I can break the "latching relay" part of it.
[15:40:09] <andypugh> A software-only e-stop isn't the best plan. My machine has a 2-element switch, an NC which drops out the main breaker (on a loop) and an NO which tells LinuxCNC that it has been pressed.
[15:40:21] <Connor> I know. I have software AND hardware.
[15:40:55] <andypugh> The little red button on the screen is more of a "fairly urgent stop" :-)
[15:41:33] <cpresser> mine just kills the enable-signal on the stepper drivers and the spindle. that net is also connecte via HAL to let emc2 know
[15:41:35] <Connor> The external estop is in series with the BOB enable and a extra DPDT relay (which kills the spindle AC and puts 5v to the stepper disable)
[15:42:10] <Connor> and drops the 5v to pin-10 (e-stop IN)
[15:42:38] <Connor> but, for software estop to work. it just needs to kill the charge pump. does the same thing.
[15:42:51] <Connor> My Keyboard and external E-Stop aren't in the same location.
[15:43:45] <Connor> andypugh: What happens which you click the e-Stop button in EMC? Does it trip the main breaker too?
[15:45:19] <andypugh> Yes
[15:46:03] <Connor> okay, so how does emc trip the breaker?
[15:51:03] <andypugh> Well, I have a 7i64 so lots of 48V / 2.5A outputs, so I simply have a digital out connected to the contactor coil, and on through the e-stop chain. Basically the digital output is just another switch in the chain.
[15:51:03] <andypugh> ]
[15:51:50] <Connor> okay. So, same idea, except instead of digital out, I'm using the charge pump for that part of it.
[15:52:46] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:03:57] <andypugh> I am not sure that it really is the same idea/
[17:02:14] <Connor_CNC> okay, on the machine.
[17:02:46] <Connor_CNC> in order to start it up now.. (I have e-stop latch going)..
[17:02:58] <Connor_CNC> I have to make sure my external estop is ok.
[17:03:32] <Connor_CNC> then.. I have to click on the software estop X (it doesn't change but, it toggles the enable-out ??)
[17:03:42] <Connor_CNC> then I can push my external reset button and it works.
[17:04:28] <Connor_CNC> my question is, why do I need to click on the software estop X button first?
[17:06:42] <andypugh> I don't know.
[17:07:34] <robin_sz> is it possible to malke a cnc controlled kitten?
[17:08:31] <roycroft> if anyone had ever figured out how to harnass the power in a kitten that person would be the wealthiest person in the world, and we would never need concern ourselves about energy again
[17:09:18] <robin_sz> sounds purrfect
[17:09:30] <frysteev> robin_sz: hampster wheel
[17:09:50] <roycroft> the closest we've come to is this:
[17:10:04] <roycroft> truth 1: cats always land on their feet
[17:10:20] <roycroft> truth 2: butterd toast always lands buttered side down
[17:10:31] <roycroft> strap a piece of toast to a cat's back and drop it
[17:10:35] <Connor_CNC> how do you invert the output of a pin
[17:10:45] <roycroft> and you have a perfect , perpetually rotating machine
[17:10:46] <Connor_CNC> I need to invert pin 9 out
[17:15:52] <robin_sz> would a kitten help?
[17:16:53] <robin_sz> you try applying to signal to the left front foot, and taking the signal from the right front foot ... I believe they invert in that direction
[17:17:02] <robin_sz> da pugh
[17:17:08] <ScribbleJ> roycroft, I think you are mistaken. YOu'd have to strap the toast to the cat's feet. It will land on them otherwise.
[17:17:19] <robin_sz> I directed Mr Briggs in your direction re lathes
[17:17:42] <andypugh> He has quite a nice Denford
[17:17:51] <robin_sz> he told me Boxford
[17:18:12] <andypugh> Approximately the same thing. But yes.
[17:19:02] <robin_sz> I didn't have the brian power to understand the problem, so re directed
[17:19:18] <robin_sz> I think he just had a licensing issue with the CAM package or something
[17:19:37] * robin_sz was sailing this evening
[17:19:46] <robin_sz> very pleasant, apart from screwing up the start
[17:20:10] <andypugh> Ah, yes, he is using the Denford educational software, and they won't licence it to non-edicational folks.
[17:20:26] <robin_sz> do they have a non-educational software?
[17:21:32] <robin_sz> there are two possible answers:
[17:21:44] <andypugh> No.
[17:21:44] <robin_sz> yes, but it costs more than the educational variant
[17:21:57] <robin_sz> no: we are british and stupid, we just like to turn money away
[17:22:08] <robin_sz> ah no
[17:22:20] <robin_sz> kinda predictable
[17:22:29] <andypugh> I told him when he got it that EMC2 was his answer
[17:22:41] <robin_sz> I told him the same
[17:22:50] <robin_sz> he said someting about "not having time"
[17:23:29] <Connor_CNC> okay.. I'm stumped.. how do you invert a output for a pin on parport ? Do you use NOT ?
[17:23:39] <andypugh> I also told him that he should just give it to me.
[17:23:54] <andypugh> Connor: Input or output?
[17:23:58] <Connor_CNC> output
[17:24:22] <andypugh> setp parport.0.pin-nn-out-invert 1
[17:24:36] <andypugh> (From fallible memory)
[17:42:43] <Connor_CNC> okay. didn't need to invert the pin.. need to switch the common on my relay.
[17:43:22] <Connor_CNC> I have it working except for having to push the X estop (even if it's already depressed) to enable E-Stop on machine.
[17:43:38] <Connor_CNC> I guess that'll do for now.
[17:55:53] <ScribbleJ> Is there any advice about a computer to run linuxcnc and drive a parport machine, like... some go-to box you can order from Amazon if you don't havea n old PC on hand?
[17:57:12] <Tom_itx> atom D525
[17:57:18] <Tom_itx> newegg
[17:58:29] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[17:58:58] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[17:58:59] <ScribbleJ> hrmmmmmm
[17:59:05] <Tom_itx> is what i got
[17:59:17] <Tom_itx> 2 sticks of ram and a hdd and dvd if you want
[17:59:29] <Tom_itx> case comes with psu
[18:00:02] <ScribbleJ> That is good advice. Is this a better idea than trying to find a parport card for an old PC I might have, or ... is there a way to add a parport to an old laptop?
[18:00:17] <Tom_itx> not all parport cards work anymore
[18:00:26] <Tom_itx> you need a good ole legacy card
[18:00:36] <ScribbleJ> Ok. Good to know.
[18:00:44] <Tom_itx> or ask here about it
[18:01:04] <ScribbleJ> I just got a machine today, but I bet it'll be weeks before I have it running. Heh
[18:01:10] <Tom_itx> atom has another mb out now a bit newer but this one works good
[18:01:13] <Tom_itx> several here use it
[18:01:41] <Tom_itx> or put the mb in your control box
[18:02:01] <jdhNC> the new one or the new new one
[18:02:12] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: That Atom board is known to give great results with LinuxCNC
[18:03:37] <Tom_itx> jdhNC, pcw_home posted a link the other day
[18:04:35] <jdhNC> to the 525 successor?
[18:05:18] <jdhNC> I think I need another 525 for up here.
[18:05:28] <Guthur> djdelorie: did you use any CAD software to design your CNC?
[18:07:46] <ScribbleJ> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.951221 haaay, is that the right motherboard?
[18:08:44] <jdhNC> yep
[18:08:58] <ScribbleJ> that appears to be a deal for me.
[18:09:33] <Tom_itx> W/psu?
[18:09:42] <ScribbleJ> There's a PSU in the photos...
[18:09:59] <jdhNC> 200w ps
[18:10:02] <ScribbleJ> 200W
[18:10:05] <ScribbleJ> yeah, just found it.
[18:10:05] <ScribbleJ> heh
[18:10:19] <ScribbleJ> I'm sur ethat's very sufficient for the purpose.
[18:10:29] <jdhNC> 1 x PCI-32bit through a riser card
[18:10:44] <jdhNC> the MB doesn't need the riser, wonder if that is wrong or the back of the case is weird
[18:10:56] <ScribbleJ> It is weird.
[18:11:00] <Tom_itx> cd drive front access?
[18:11:36] <jdhNC> the no cd access, and the cutout for the pci is sideways
[18:11:43] <Tom_itx> my case doesn't require a riser either
[18:11:49] <jdhNC> nor mine.
[18:11:53] <jdhNC> I'd pass on that one
[18:11:59] <Tom_itx> i'll stick with my deal thankyou
[18:12:21] <Tom_itx> i got pics of the case if you wanna see
[18:12:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom_index.php
[18:13:38] <jdhNC> my case came with a little plug in speaker thing, but I didn't see any place on the MB to plug it in
[18:14:03] <Tom_itx> it may have a builtin piezo
[18:14:21] <jdhNC> didn't see one.
[18:14:28] <Tom_itx> i didn't look
[18:14:33] <Tom_itx> not important to me
[18:14:54] <jdhNC> only good for POST
[18:15:18] <Tom_itx> good enough
[18:15:47] <ScribbleJ> I don't think having a CD on it is important to me, the elcheapo case is good.
[18:16:05] <jdhNC> I didn't bother with cd either. I do have a pci card though
[18:17:01] <ScribbleJ> What for ?
[18:17:16] <jdhNC> wifi card
[18:21:10] <andypugh> I guess that has a riser to lay a PCI card over the top of the board horizontally.
[18:22:21] <andypugh> Yes, I found a picture, and that is the case.
[18:23:43] <r00t4rd3d> My Atom setup: http://i.imgur.com/DaW3W.jpg
[18:24:15] <Tom_itx> ScribbleJ unless you wanna install from the live cd
[18:24:51] <jdhNC> I burned the livecd to a usb
[18:24:57] <jdhNC> booted it on the atom and installed
[18:25:06] <Tom_itx> 2.5?
[18:25:48] <jdhNC> no, 10.04 but 2.5 wasn't released when I did the install
[18:26:06] <Tom_itx> i may have to reinstall mine
[18:26:15] <Tom_itx> i've been messin around with the machine
[18:26:22] <r00t4rd3d> still waiting on my jae50 to sata board so i can use the dvd
[18:26:38] <Tom_itx> i wanted to test my new drivers tonight but may not get to
[18:29:09] <atom1> does someone have the link to install 2.5 from the web?
[18:29:21] <jdhNC> it's on the front page
[18:29:23] <atom1> it doesn't work off the live cd
[18:29:37] <atom1> i may just try reinstalling it
[18:29:43] <jdhNC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.5
[18:29:53] <r00t4rd3d> did you get an error?
[18:30:08] <r00t4rd3d> trying 10.04 or whatever
[18:30:12] <Tom_itx> when i did the install i did but i got it working after that
[18:30:23] <Tom_itx> i've screwed with that pc to where i think it's my fault
[18:30:38] <Tom_itx> i've got 10.04 cd too
[18:30:46] <r00t4rd3d> most computer users are their own worst enemy
[18:31:13] <Tom_itx> mmm requred a restart
[18:31:34] <r00t4rd3d> what are you trying to do tom?
[18:31:38] <Tom_itx> i installed a webserver on it
[18:31:47] <Tom_itx> i was just messin around
[18:31:52] <r00t4rd3d> apache?
[18:31:57] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:32:16] <Tom_itx> it's working but linuxcnc isn't
[18:32:19] <r00t4rd3d> im an apache wizard
[18:32:36] <r00t4rd3d> i have a hat
[18:32:37] <Tom_itx> well they moved stuff around again from my main server install on debian
[18:33:37] <Tom_itx> will having all that on there affect linuxcnc's performance?
[18:34:11] <Tom_itx> it's not online, it's a backup
[18:34:18] <r00t4rd3d> it is wicked fun to config 1000 virtual servers off one apache install.
[18:34:33] <r00t4rd3d> no
[18:34:52] <r00t4rd3d> apache is very light weight when not under load
[18:35:24] <pfred1> hey everybody
[18:35:39] <r00t4rd3d> other then posting your links here your server is probably dead most of the time
[18:36:35] <Tom_itx> i'm sure it is
[18:36:55] <pfred1> I need to setup my machine upstairs to serve my html to me
[18:36:56] <Tom_itx> it's my "pastebin"
[18:37:10] <r00t4rd3d> and you only do image files
[18:37:35] <r00t4rd3d> bandwidth yes, apache power no.
[18:37:45] <pfred1> I'm fixing to take down my old machine which does my html now
[18:37:45] <djdelorie> Guther: Nope, we just winged it
[18:40:27] <pfred1> so sad to decommission an old PC but I don't really use it anymore
[18:40:51] <r00t4rd3d> toilet pc
[18:40:57] <r00t4rd3d> everyone poops
[18:42:26] <pfred1> I hooked a 5.1 surround system up to my new junker last night its cool!
[18:43:00] <r00t4rd3d> pfred1, you use the tb6560?
[18:43:14] <r00t4rd3d> ive seen some of you replies to forum posts
[18:43:17] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d now i do toshiba just came out with a new chip though
[18:43:24] <r00t4rd3d> but was pfred2
[18:43:38] <pfred1> on instructables?
[18:43:51] <r00t4rd3d> cant remember
[18:43:59] <pfred1> I'm pfred2 there
[18:44:10] <pfred1> I lost my password when i moved for pfred1
[18:44:19] <pfred1> it was a hectic time
[18:44:23] <r00t4rd3d> i could recover that for you
[18:45:01] <JT-Shop-2> lol Andy's computer is a "bit bonkers"
[18:45:05] <pfred1> I only posted a little as pfred1
[18:45:14] <pfred1> JT-Shop-2 well read what he said
[18:45:26] <r00t4rd3d> username is all i need
[18:45:27] <pfred1> crashing all over the place can't unload modules it ain't right
[18:45:53] <JT-Shop-2> just making fun
[18:46:03] <pfred1> it looks bad for Linux
[18:46:18] <JT-Shop> well generator test was very interesting to say the least
[18:46:29] <pfred1> but in his case I couldn't argue it seems he does have to reboot
[18:46:54] <pfred1> really he needs to get to the bottom of what is going on
[18:47:27] <pfred1> maybe if he gets really good friends with Alan Cox or something
[18:47:37] <pfred1> hey DJ don't you know Alan?
[18:48:07] <djdelorie> Not that well ;-)
[18:48:26] <pfred1> it sounds like Andy could use some of Alan's attentions to me
[18:49:24] <djdelorie> however, crashing when you unload modules is usually the module's problem, not the kernel's problem. If it's a third-party module, blame them first ;-)
[18:49:33] <pfred1> isn't LinuxCNC using a kernel later than what RTAI patches against now?
[18:49:58] <pfred1> djdelorie it sounds like it is crashing on him, then he is trying to unload it with no success
[18:50:14] <JT-Shop> I think andypugh's crashes are due to him writing modules and figuring out what is broke as he goes along
[18:50:28] <djdelorie> if you patch the kernel source, and it breaks, you get to keep both pieces
[18:50:30] <pfred1> JT-Shop that is a valid method
[18:50:38] <andypugh> Indeed,
[18:50:38] <JT-Shop> aye
[18:50:57] <pfred1> fix it until it breaks
[18:51:46] <andypugh> Then I have to figure out how I segfaulted, or which infinite loop has been zeroing kernel memory until it hit something important. It isn't Linux's fault that I can break it with badly-coded kernel modules.
[18:51:48] <JT-Shop> so andypugh we ran the generator to power up the BP VMC and while not 100% due to lack of control of the motor's speed I think it was conclusive enough to say the Simodrive don't like my phase converter
[18:51:52] <pfred1> andypugh tell us more about your rebootable PC :)
[18:52:46] <pfred1> I'm getting to the point on this box where I want to bank some uptime on it
[18:53:12] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I think a single-phase DC power supply is the better solution. But I am not sure how much you would have to shange. It seems daft to make 3-phase only to have it instantly rectified.
[18:53:39] <pfred1> 3 phase DC now that'd be interesting
[18:53:52] <pfred1> delta wye!
[18:54:46] <pfred1> andypugh what do you think everything on the bench for $10 USD http://i.imgur.com/o39uG.jpg
[18:54:59] <pfred1> was it a good deal?
[18:56:04] <andypugh> Yes and no. It looks like a useful monitor and IEC leads, and some junk.
[18:56:29] <pfred1> right now I'm using the 5.1 surround it is kicking
[18:56:54] <JT-Shop> andypugh: it would be quite an undertaking as the modules all talk to each other... if they were autonomous units that might be more trivial
[18:57:35] <pfred1> andypugh the plastic tub came with it too
[18:57:58] <andypugh> I spy a circle of firebricks and some scorched baking trays. You do casting too, I surmise?
[18:57:58] <pfred1> that has to be worth $2 right there
[18:58:01] <JT-Shop> so at this point I #1 buy a 3 phase generator or #B figure out how to get clean 3phase from a rotary pase converter
[18:58:16] <pfred1> andypugh yeah a little when the weather is right I worry about burning down the county
[18:58:58] <pfred1> or at least the stand of woods i live in
[18:59:33] <andypugh> I have to be at work tomorrow in the actual morning. So I best check out.
[18:59:40] <pfred1> nite
[18:59:43] <JT-Shop> goodnight Andy
[19:08:03] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: you around?
[19:10:24] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: let me know when your back
[19:10:26] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[19:50:09] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: in and out - ask away.
[19:50:29] <Aero-Tec> when you ran the sim
[19:50:40] <Aero-Tec> you did it with your mill setup
[19:50:42] <Aero-Tec> right?
[19:50:57] <Aero-Tec> it was not set to lathe
[19:51:38] <Aero-Tec> the problem was every tool change in lathe seams to need a reset of s and f
[19:52:25] <Aero-Tec> so it you da a tool change and do not have not set s and f it will complain and stop running the code
[19:52:50] <Aero-Tec> oops bad typing
[19:54:31] <Aero-Tec> I change it by accident the first tool change and did not know what I did to fix it, but it would then complain after the next tool change
[19:54:45] <Aero-Tec> I was trying every thing
[19:56:41] <Aero-Tec> finally I remed out the F300, it then said something about 0 feed, then it twigged, lincnc does not carry the F and S from the tool before to the next tool
[19:56:48] <jymmm> Hmmm, I need to build a hot box of some sort.
[19:56:57] <Aero-Tec> it has to be set for each tool change
[19:57:35] <Aero-Tec> not sure if the mill is the same
[19:57:54] <Aero-Tec> if so then it is funny the sim ran fine
[19:58:08] <Aero-Tec> hot box?
[19:58:20] <Aero-Tec> and we are not talking girls here right?
[19:58:22] <Aero-Tec> lol
[19:58:33] <jymmm> I WISH =)
[19:58:42] <Aero-Tec> what is a hot box
[19:58:53] <jymmm> Build your own girl hot box... mine will be mute =)
[19:59:18] <jymmm> Like a BIG toaster oven, but only maintain between 80 - 140 F
[19:59:24] <jymmm> 24/7
[19:59:39] <jymmm> kinda a dry heat
[19:59:59] <Aero-Tec> what for welding rod?
[20:00:07] <jymmm> Could probably just use a light bulb if I think about it.
[20:00:20] <jymmm> No, to dry things out
[20:00:21] <Aero-Tec> toaster over works good for them
[20:00:34] <jymmm> but not down to 120F
[20:00:41] <Aero-Tec> how big?
[20:00:56] <jymmm> maybe 2ft cubed
[20:01:22] <jymmm> maybe 3ft cubed
[20:01:38] <Aero-Tec> halogen light would work for sure
[20:01:47] <Aero-Tec> may get to hot
[20:02:03] <jymmm> But since it'll run 24/7, want no heat to escape to conserve electricity as much as possible
[20:02:32] <Aero-Tec> 24/7?
[20:02:41] <Aero-Tec> that are you drying out?
[20:02:47] <jymmm> 24 hours a day, 7 days a week
[20:02:54] <Aero-Tec> you will need air to move some
[20:03:16] <jymmm> I have muffin fans
[20:03:47] <Aero-Tec> I know what 24/7 means, just surprised you would need to run that hard
[20:04:04] <jymmm> Well, it's not much heat if you think about it
[20:04:05] <pfred1> yup real rod drier boxes just have light bulbs in them
[20:04:44] <jymmm> thermostat controlled dimmer =)
[20:05:25] <Thetawaves> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/05/23/2030235/darpa-pays-35-million-for-new-techshops-and-secret-reconfigurable-factories?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
[20:05:49] <Thetawaves> that's gonna be a hard one
[20:06:07] <Aero-Tec> if what your drying is like rods with very little water then you may not need the fans, would be easy to keep warm/hot
[20:06:25] <jymmm> I'll have to see what cheap sheet metal there is. It may only be 140F, but running 24/7 I want fire containment!
[20:06:50] <Aero-Tec> but if your driving off allot of water you will need something like a fruit dryer
[20:07:23] <Thetawaves> jymmm, my supply of al sheet is extremely cheap
[20:07:35] <Thetawaves> cut fee costs more than the sheet
[20:07:40] <jymmm> Thetawaves: define cheap?
[20:07:53] <jymmm> well, I'm taking cut with scissors thin
[20:07:57] <jymmm> talking
[20:07:59] <Thetawaves> i think 40$ for 4x4'
[20:08:14] <pfred1> strip old hot water heaters
[20:08:27] <pfred1> skin them suckers get a lot of sheet metal
[20:08:36] <jymmm> Yeah, that's expensive to cover 54 sq ft
[20:08:50] <Aero-Tec> so with lincnc, do you have to set the S and F for each tool change?
[20:09:05] <jymmm> pfred1: Can't, the metal recyclers snatch them up quick!
[20:09:42] <Aero-Tec> it looks like it for the lathe
[20:09:46] <pfred1> jymmm you live in cali don't you?
[20:09:54] <jymmm> pfred1: yeah
[20:09:59] <Aero-Tec> but is the mill the same?
[20:10:14] <pfred1> jymmm yeah I'm hoping the country gives that state back to mexico pretty soon
[20:10:32] <pfred1> place is mexico anymore anyways might as well be in name too
[20:10:52] <jymmm> pfred1: lol
[20:11:11] <pfred1> well it was kinda sleezy how we got the place
[20:11:43] <pfred1> whats fair is fair give it back!
[20:12:04] <jymmm> lol
[20:12:58] <Aero-Tec> unless you move you would become a mexican
[20:13:22] <Aero-Tec> not sure if being a mexican is so good
[20:13:33] <Aero-Tec> that is why they come to the US
[20:14:32] <Aero-Tec> anyways
[20:14:44] <Aero-Tec> do you guys run EMC
[20:14:56] <Aero-Tec> or linux cnc as they call it now
[20:15:14] <Tom_itx> ok, no smoke... initial stepper test worked on the old controller
[20:15:25] <Tom_itx> time to reinstall ubuntu
[20:15:35] <pfred1> Aero-Tec it is like anything else some mexicans do OK for themselves
[20:15:56] <Aero-Tec> you know electronics runs on smoke
[20:15:59] <pfred1> they're not the ones you run into in the USA though
[20:16:12] <Aero-Tec> you let the smoke out and it stops working
[20:16:52] <pfred1> it seems to me that Ubuntu is targeting the mobile market anymore
[20:17:04] <pfred1> which I think for them is a smart move
[20:17:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/8p2PJ.jpg
[20:17:28] <ReadError> soooo
[20:17:33] <ReadError> ordered a camera for my mill
[20:17:36] <ReadError> hope it works
[20:18:08] <Aero-Tec> cool ride
[20:18:26] <pfred1> but I don't think any desktop users sticking with ubuntu are really thinking in advance
[20:18:31] <Aero-Tec> I have one of them motors, but have not put it on the bike yet
[20:19:46] <Aero-Tec> with EMC, lathe, are you forced to reset the S and F
[20:19:59] <Aero-Tec> or is there some sort of setting for that?
[20:20:00] <r00t4rd3d> how fast you think that goes?
[20:20:03] <r00t4rd3d> 80cc
[20:20:59] <Aero-Tec> that would depend on the gearing, the size of guy on it and if it is going up hill or down
[20:21:26] <Aero-Tec> I would guess it would hit 30 MPH
[20:21:27] <r00t4rd3d> im 150 and you can see the gear ratio
[20:21:42] <r00t4rd3d> 45-50
[20:21:53] <Aero-Tec> thats good
[20:22:04] <Aero-Tec> but will it clime hills?
[20:22:10] <r00t4rd3d> im good with 2 stroke small engines too
[20:22:17] <r00t4rd3d> rock and roll up them
[20:22:20] <Aero-Tec> me too
[20:22:37] <Aero-Tec> what kind of hills?
[20:23:00] <r00t4rd3d> the speed limit on my road is 45 and i can pass cars on the right
[20:23:13] <r00t4rd3d> up a big hill
[20:23:15] <Aero-Tec> in the flat lands what they call mountain we where I live call bumps
[20:23:47] <Aero-Tec> I live in the rockies
[20:23:53] <Aero-Tec> deep in them
[20:24:07] <Aero-Tec> we got hills every where
[20:24:35] <r00t4rd3d> i live by the Adirondacks
[20:24:45] <r00t4rd3d> 45min
[20:24:53] <Aero-Tec> never heard of them
[20:25:09] <Aero-Tec> where is that?
[20:25:18] <r00t4rd3d> east coast usa
[20:25:29] <Aero-Tec> ok
[20:25:33] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.google.com/search?q=adirondack+mountains&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=f4u9T4CuNc6A6QG8qqhg&ved=0CHkQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=722
[20:25:38] <Tom_itx> smoky hills?
[20:25:40] <Aero-Tec> I live west coast Canada
[20:25:42] <Tom_itx> smokey*
[20:26:04] <Tom_itx> appilachian mountians?
[20:26:08] <r00t4rd3d> im smoked out
[20:27:01] <Aero-Tec> I keep asking about Gcode and the S and F
[20:27:12] <Tom_itx> what about it?
[20:27:13] <Aero-Tec> not getting any replyies
[20:27:27] <Aero-Tec> in my Gcode on the lathe
[20:27:41] <Aero-Tec> every tool change I have to reset F and S
[20:27:50] <Aero-Tec> is that a setting?
[20:28:03] <Aero-Tec> also is it the same with the mill?
[20:28:04] <Tom_itx> those are modal commands i believe
[20:28:09] <Tom_itx> yes
[20:28:18] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: I used sim lathe...
[20:28:25] <Tom_itx> T1 M6 F100 S2000
[20:28:41] <Aero-Tec> so why did the sim not stop when S and F were not reset?
[20:28:58] <Tom_itx> i sim on real steel
[20:29:03] <skunkworks__> I don't know...
[20:30:02] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004M8SQ6Q/ref=pe_175190_21431760_A1_cs_sce_dp_1
[20:30:08] <skunkworks__> funny thing.. I don't think the spindle shut off for the tool changes.. Let me check..
[20:30:11] <Aero-Tec> anyway, it took some time and had a ton of interruptions, but I did track down the gcode problem
[20:31:33] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
[20:31:37] <Tom_itx> yes they are modal
[20:33:03] <Aero-Tec> one other thing I would like to know
[20:33:33] <Aero-Tec> tool length comp and tool rad comp, do they need to be turned on for lathe?
[20:33:41] <Aero-Tec> that is a mill thing is it not?
[20:34:13] <Tom_itx> i believe they can be but i'm not positive
[20:34:29] <Aero-Tec> the lathe will still use the tool table no matter if the comp is on or off, right?
[20:34:31] <Tom_itx> those offsets acount for wear
[20:34:35] <Tom_itx> etc
[20:34:38] <jymmm> pfred1: How long do you think it would take to stablize and heat a cubic meter box with a 40-80 watt lightbulb that's well insulated?
[20:34:58] <Tom_itx> 2 min
[20:35:06] <pfred1> I don
[20:35:09] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: yes- sim doesn't turn off the spindle. that is probably why it worked.
[20:35:10] <jymmm> sorry to 150F
[20:35:18] <pfred1> I don't know the pro rod driers use 100 watt bulbs
[20:35:19] <Tom_itx> 4 min
[20:35:37] <jymmm> pfred1: they get to 150f?
[20:35:46] <Aero-Tec> is that a Gcode setting?
[20:35:48] <Tom_itx> jymmm at sea level or on a mountain top?
[20:35:49] <pfred1> beats me they keep rods dry though
[20:35:59] <jymmm> pfred1: heh
[20:36:05] <Aero-Tec> EMC has way more Gcode things then mach
[20:36:16] <pfred1> mach is abandonware
[20:36:16] <jymmm> Tom_itx: 200ft
[20:36:27] <pfred1> the lead dev retired
[20:36:45] <Aero-Tec> just saying I am used to Mach
[20:36:55] <ReadError> its MACK
[20:36:58] <ReadError> ;p
[20:37:10] <Aero-Tec> and programing EMC is very different
[20:37:32] <pfred1> yeah emc is almost like real software
[20:37:41] <Tom_itx> it's not that bad
[20:37:50] <Tom_itx> my post worked fine on it
[20:38:05] <Aero-Tec> Have to learn some new codes and learn EMC way of doing things
[20:38:35] <Aero-Tec> not complaining, just wanting to know
[20:38:59] <Tom_itx> it's been a long time since i ran a lathe so i forget about cutter comp
[20:39:03] <Aero-Tec> so is there a gcode for the spindle turning off for tool changes?
[20:39:06] <Tom_itx> err length and diameter
[20:39:17] <Tom_itx> sure is
[20:39:36] <Aero-Tec> in mill turning off spindle is needed
[20:39:51] <Aero-Tec> but in lathe, not so much
[20:39:55] <Tom_itx> M5
[20:40:14] <Aero-Tec> M5 turns off spindle
[20:40:14] <Tom_itx> also M9 to turn coolant off
[20:40:37] <Aero-Tec> but as far as I know does not effect if it turns off for tool changes
[20:40:59] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: in the ini - add TOOL_CHANGE_WITH_SPINDLE_ON = 1 in the [EMCIO] section. then the spindle stays on
[20:41:13] <Aero-Tec> cool
[20:41:16] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[20:42:26] <Tom_itx> that's kinda not safe
[20:42:36] <skunkworks__> for a lathe - that is pretty normal
[20:42:45] <Tom_itx> i suppose if you're drilling and tapping it may be ok
[20:43:28] <Tom_itx> on the lathe does it allow you to set an upper spindle limit?
[20:43:37] <Tom_itx> so you don't throw your bar across the room
[20:43:43] <Tom_itx> on constant surface speed mode
[20:46:32] <skunkworks__> (that is why lathesim worked...)
[20:47:13] <ReadError> http://news.sky.com/home/strange-news/article/16233460
[20:47:16] <ReadError> awesome :)
[20:49:11] <pfred1> nothing the squirrels around here can't do
[20:52:00] <jymmm> pfred1: We got special squirrles here... they can climb the fence with a ping pong ball under their arm!
[20:52:37] <pfred1> mine are getting on my bird feeder again the only way I can see is they're dropping like 20 feet out of a tree onto it
[20:52:52] <pfred1> they must look like the guy in this video when they do it
[20:53:08] <Tom_itx> pfred1 sprinkle it with pepperspray
[20:53:14] <Tom_itx> won't affect the birds
[20:53:32] <pfred1> http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6353/41335669.jpg
[20:53:51] <pfred1> I made that baffle out of a hot water heater skin too
[20:54:14] <Tom_itx> put a video on it for a while and see how they get on it
[20:54:33] <pfred1> Tom_itx I'm just going to chop down some trees by it
[21:01:36] <skunkworks__> Tom_itx: yes - css lets you enter limits
[21:22:56] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: linuxcnc is very configurable - which makes it complex. (don't be afraid of it) ;)
[21:24:13] <pfred1> skunkworks__ it is complex because of something Don Johnson said in a movie once, nothing starts out complicated, it just gets that way ...
[21:25:54] <pfred1> but an alumni of mine said this first too "Unix is simple. It just takes a genius to understand its simplicity." – Dennis Ritchie
[22:24:03] <Tom_itx> ok i forgot where the bit files are stored
[22:24:59] <pfred1> Tom_itx find / -name "*" | grep -i bit
[22:26:10] <pfred1> metal needs exercise too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=711bZ_pLusQ&feature=player_embedded
[22:26:54] <Valen> pfred1: any reason not to find / -iname "*bit*?
[22:27:18] <pfred1> Valen no just not how I do it
[22:28:44] <pfred1> locate bit might be a bit vague :)
[22:29:06] <Valen> locate is crap anyway
[22:29:13] <pfred1> works for me
[22:29:41] <Valen> i'm always searching stuff it hasn't put into its database
[22:29:49] <Valen> and it fails silently
[22:29:49] <pfred1> updatedb
[22:30:00] <pfred1> then start searching
[22:30:27] <Valen> i just stuffed some randoms 1TB drive full of stupid cat photos in and i need to find their super important word document
[22:30:47] <Valen> SSD means never having to updatedb ;->
[22:30:50] <Valen> (for /)
[22:31:23] <pfred1> super important word document is like an oxymoron because in a couple of years nothing will be able to open the file anyways
[22:32:04] <Valen> they seem to think its super important
[22:32:11] <ScribbleJ> Why would LibreOffice lose the ability to open word documents?
[22:33:00] <pfred1> we'll have to wait and see if it is still around in a couple of years
[22:33:25] * pfred1 still has his Star Office CD ...
[22:33:43] <pfred1> but no one here even knows what that is most likely
[22:33:59] <Valen> i didn't think star office lived untill there were CDs
[22:34:11] <pfred1> I have word perfect for linus too :P
[22:34:17] <pfred1> linux even
[22:35:02] <pfred1> I still use the fonts off that CD from time to time ...
[22:35:50] <pfred1> X Window fonts are kind of a running joke
[22:36:04] <Valen> i dont really notice fonts
[22:36:11] <pfred1> I do
[22:37:07] <pfred1> Valen the X Window Consortium is looking for people like you to carry the torch
[22:37:23] <pfred1> because I think they're all blind
[22:37:36] <Valen> lol
[22:37:52] <pfred1> xfontsel is one depressing program
[22:38:05] <Tom_itx> do i need to have the .xml file with the .bit file?
[22:38:44] <pcw_home> for pncconf, yes
[22:39:12] <Tom_itx> i may need to get the 7i47 from you again
[22:39:18] <pfred1> whoever said that xml was human readable doesn't read very good materials
[22:39:22] <Tom_itx> i'll check tomorrow to see if i have it somewhere
[22:39:56] <Tom_itx> i'm fairly sure i do
[22:43:09] <pfred1> is it just me or are people who comment on YouTube videos really of sub average intelligence?
[22:43:25] <ScribbleJ> Depends on the video.
[22:44:02] <Valen> i generally don't comment, does that mean i'm generally smarter?
[22:44:13] <pfred1> ScribbleJ ah yes I believe you're right the ones that attract more commenters do seem to attract the bottom feeders
[22:46:11] <ScribbleJ> So... speaking of sub average intelligence, I'm totally new to all this and not too bright to boot. Is there some good guide somewhere you guys know of that could help me figure out what milling bits to use under what circumstances?
[22:46:12] <pfred1> like check out this scintillating conversation I've been having over there http://pastebin.com/uzicxsm3
[22:46:23] <pfred1> they want to invent plants that eat CO2
[22:46:45] <ScribbleJ> That's brilliant! I'll get to it right after I'm done inventing farm animals that can produce methane.
[22:47:19] <pfred1> I mean can you believe it?
[22:48:34] <pfred1> frankly I'm shocked half these people can string letters together to make words
[23:00:45] <alex4nder-> hey
[23:35:30] <Valen> i *think* what the guy is wanting is airborne plankton
[23:35:51] <Valen> i'm pretty glad such a thing doesn't exist
[23:36:05] <Valen> grey goo scenario meet green goo
[23:36:19] <Valen> alergy pill companies would love it