#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-22

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[00:10:18] <Aero-Tec> did I miss anything?
[02:19:08] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:20:34] <alex4nder-> `hey
[02:21:48] <DJ9DJ> good morning
[04:28:21] <coldelectrons> [rhetoric and chin-scratching] for code, how does one definitively judge one implementation better than the other?
[04:29:16] <archivist> insufficient data for answer :)
[04:31:03] <coldelectrons> archivist-command# wget -R http://codinghorror.com
[04:31:43] * archivist is a volunteer commands not accepted
[04:31:59] <coldelectrons> okay.../sudo/ wget
[04:33:03] <coldelectrons> ...alright. I've been spending far too long in a terminal when I start to make jokes using linux commands
[04:44:57] <r00t4rd3d> http://bash.org/
[08:43:35] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Mornin
[08:43:45] <jthornton> howdy
[08:43:47] <adb> moin
[08:47:40] <jymmm> Has anyone ever seen a propane based "bunsen burner" type thing with a safety shutoff?
[08:48:39] <TekniQue> I haven't
[08:48:48] <TekniQue> the ones I've used are extremely unsafe
[08:49:09] <TekniQue> unclamped hose barb fittings for the gas, etc
[08:50:13] <jymmm> Well, that's easily fixed. But I'm looking at a blown out open flame and gas leaking sorta thing
[08:50:27] <Aero-Tec> hello
[08:51:00] <TekniQue> jymmm: yeah I got what you meant
[08:51:07] <jymmm> =)
[08:51:22] <Aero-Tec> any EMC experts here?
[08:51:30] <TekniQue> the labs here the gas is just shut off when the lights go out
[08:51:32] <Aero-Tec> got a problem
[08:51:32] <jymmm> whats EMC?
[08:52:19] <Aero-Tec> ok linux cnc
[08:52:41] <Aero-Tec> liked the old name better
[08:52:52] <jthornton> the protocol is to ask your question not ask if anyone is an expert
[08:53:04] <jymmm> TekniQue: looks expensive http://americanfireglass.com/burners/safety-pilot-kit-for-propane.html
[08:53:31] <Aero-Tec> the sorry
[08:53:58] <Aero-Tec> did not mean to offend anyone
[08:54:05] <jthornton> anything with the word safety is expensive so they can pay the lawyers and insurance
[08:54:15] <jymmm> heh
[08:54:28] <jthornton> no offense just giving you a heads up
[08:55:24] <jymmm> No, I understand =)
[08:56:17] <Aero-Tec> if it possible to do threading and run G95 type commands with index only input on a lathe
[08:56:19] <Aero-Tec> if so how?
[08:57:49] <jthornton> I "think" you can make a horrible thread with an index but might be wrong
[08:57:49] <Aero-Tec> I have some examples of index and only one side of a encoder
[08:58:11] <jymmm> jthornton: That was $80-$140, now this is REALLY expensive http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5MN-MVVKLPA/Propane-Gas-Millivolt-Valve-Kit
[08:58:56] <Aero-Tec> like mach
[08:59:05] <jymmm> Remote Control Flammage!
[08:59:13] <Aero-Tec> they run index only and can make lousy threads
[08:59:24] <Aero-Tec> but I have had good luck with it
[08:59:32] <Aero-Tec> others were not so lucky
[08:59:52] <jymmm> jthornton: 'clap clap' Flame on!, 'clap clap' Flame off! lol
[09:00:11] <jthornton> ewww you want to thread like mack?
[09:00:25] <Aero-Tec> no
[09:00:35] <jthornton> I think luck has everything to do with mack threading
[09:00:45] <jthornton> have you looked at encoder.N.position-interpolated
[09:00:50] <Aero-Tec> I was running mach and now I want to run EMC
[09:00:57] <jdhNC> my turkey fryer has a thing that shuts off the gas if there is no flame
[09:00:58] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/encoder.9.html
[09:01:13] <jymmm> jdhNC: link?
[09:01:32] <jdhNC> lowes/home-depot, check out the grill aisle
[09:01:53] <jthornton> can you add at least one encoder input to your lathe?
[09:03:24] <jthornton> I "think" CSS needs at least one encoder channel to work
[09:07:32] <Aero-Tec> not easily
[09:07:44] <Aero-Tec> would have to look at it
[09:08:05] <jthornton> you would be much happier with your threads if you could
[09:08:34] <Aero-Tec> been using optos and have had problems with oil build up and they stop working till I blow them out
[09:08:34] <jthornton> what kind of lathe is it?
[09:08:44] <Aero-Tec> grizzly
[09:09:15] <Aero-Tec> about a 60 inch bed
[09:09:35] <jthornton> nice one
[09:09:45] <jthornton> a converted manual lathe?
[09:10:23] <Aero-Tec> yes
[09:10:54] <Aero-Tec> servos
[09:11:54] <Aero-Tec> been having problems with it lately
[09:12:34] <Aero-Tec> got a new tig welder and I am not sure if I damaged the gecko drives
[09:13:00] <Aero-Tec> it will actup in one direction only, both axies
[09:13:15] <Aero-Tec> but it comes and goes
[09:13:34] <Aero-Tec> when the dir sig is high it can act up
[09:13:46] <Aero-Tec> motors growls
[09:14:05] <Aero-Tec> like it is changing dir thousands of times
[09:14:07] <jthornton> just looking at the griz manuals and the spindle tube looks like a good spot to mount an encoder like device
[09:14:45] <jthornton> that don't sound good
[09:15:09] <jthornton> Marris is real helpful with troubleshooting his products
[09:15:15] <Aero-Tec> the other thing is it used to not error out when it growled, now it has started erroring out
[09:16:00] <Aero-Tec> it used to just move slow and growl
[09:16:22] <Aero-Tec> now it may move slow
[09:16:28] <Aero-Tec> or not at all
[09:16:38] <Aero-Tec> some times error out
[09:16:43] <jthornton> both axes or just one
[09:16:59] <Aero-Tec> other times not error out
[09:17:06] <Aero-Tec> both
[09:17:28] <Aero-Tec> sometimes both will act up together, some time just one at a time
[09:17:44] <Aero-Tec> it is funny
[09:18:08] <Aero-Tec> your making a move, it is not moving but it is not erroring out
[09:18:40] <Aero-Tec> but yet the drives are getting step and dir sigs
[09:19:38] <Aero-Tec> so the drive are not seeing the sigs or are messing up
[09:19:56] <Aero-Tec> yet they run perfect when dir is low
[09:20:32] <pcw_home> Measure the dir signal across the gecko input pins when high
[09:20:35] <Aero-Tec> swapped out computers just to make sure
[09:22:07] <pcw_home> do the Geckos have common GND or common VCC on their OPTO inputs?
[09:22:23] <Aero-Tec> opto
[09:22:34] <Aero-Tec> with both options
[09:22:46] <jymmm> pcw_home: You see the link I gave you?
[09:22:51] <pcw_home> which are you using?
[09:23:04] <Aero-Tec> common ground
[09:23:40] <pcw_home> so that suggests the high state is not high enough
[09:24:00] <jymmm> pcw_home: http://www.ntop.org/products/pf_ring/libzero-for-dna/
[09:24:09] <pcw_home> jymmm yes saw it
[09:24:15] <jymmm> pcw_home: k
[09:24:17] <Aero-Tec> the computer is sourcing the power instead of sinking the power
[09:24:38] <pcw_home> direct from the parallel port?
[09:24:47] <pcw_home> or is there a BOB
[09:25:48] <Aero-Tec> the bob is just a connector
[09:25:57] <Aero-Tec> so straight
[09:26:06] <Aero-Tec> or direct
[09:26:26] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: do yo have your hal file up somewhere?
[09:26:36] <Aero-Tec> the computer is directly connected to the drives
[09:26:49] <Aero-Tec> not yet
[09:27:02] <Aero-Tec> I have a few versions
[09:27:06] <pcw_home> My guess it that the PP high drive is too weak (try a 470 Ohm or so pullup)
[09:27:11] <Aero-Tec> but only one works
[09:27:30] <Aero-Tec> that is a good idea
[09:27:53] <Aero-Tec> not 1K
[09:28:18] <Aero-Tec> 1K pull ups used to be the norm
[09:28:22] <pcw_home> well if nothing else it should tell you if you are poking at the right spot
[09:28:33] <Aero-Tec> I see more 470 now
[09:29:20] <Aero-Tec> Just find it interesting 470 seems to be popular now
[09:31:35] <Aero-Tec> 470 would make a 11 mil amp sink
[09:31:54] <Aero-Tec> how much sink and the port take?
[09:32:37] <Aero-Tec> that is if the vcc is 5 volts
[09:32:59] <Aero-Tec> if it is the 3.X then it would be lower
[09:33:33] <pcw_home> I think the LPT spec is at least 15 mA sink
[09:33:51] <pcw_home> and 5V tolerance
[09:34:34] <pcw_home> worst case it wont go all the way to ground and you will have trouble when DIR is low
[09:35:06] <Aero-Tec> will try a 1K
[09:35:29] <Aero-Tec> I know that is safe as I have used it tons of times before
[09:35:41] <pcw_home> if its marginal that should make a noticable difference
[09:36:42] <Aero-Tec> so what do I do and my lathe and hal file?
[09:37:04] <Aero-Tec> should I look at getting a encoder input right away?
[09:37:18] <joe9> how do I get rid of this message from the gcode produced by heeks: (Feeds and Speeds set for machining Please select a material to machine)
[09:37:40] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: you should be able to thread decently with just an index.
[09:37:47] <skunkworks> (with linuxcnc)
[09:38:02] <Aero-Tec> I have a plan but have to order some stuff, so was hoping to limp along till I got it in
[09:38:16] <Aero-Tec> cool
[09:38:59] <Aero-Tec> the link you get me for the hal was for a index and one side of the encoder
[09:39:31] <Aero-Tec> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob_plain;f=configs/nist-lathe/nist-lathe.hal;hb=HEAD
[09:39:53] <Aero-Tec> I have tried to get it to work but it fails to load
[09:40:04] <joe9> djdelorie: how do you keep the linuxcnc tooltable and the heeks tooltable in sync?
[09:40:19] <Aero-Tec> my version based on you example
[09:40:36] <Aero-Tec> your
[09:41:18] <Aero-Tec> I have gone through the manual some and have tried several example there as well
[09:41:27] <Aero-Tec> and they all failed to load
[09:41:49] <Aero-Tec> but all were index and one side of encoder
[09:42:46] <Aero-Tec> and I was trying to use just index so I was picking and choosing what to put in
[09:42:56] <Aero-Tec> I did not get it right
[09:45:40] <pcw_home> probably have to connect the index signal to counter phase A and counter phase Z (since index does double duty in this case)
[09:46:03] <pcw_home> (both index and count)
[09:46:03] <Aero-Tec> I was wondering about that
[09:46:36] <Aero-Tec> can hal be pointed to one pin to do two things??
[09:46:49] <Aero-Tec> pin 11 is index
[09:47:10] <Aero-Tec> could a also be pin 11?
[09:47:13] <Aero-Tec> A
[09:47:28] <skunkworks> and then use the encoder.N.position-interpolated as jt said for threading (hooked to motion.spindle-revs)
[09:48:20] <Aero-Tec> this and the nice interface was why Mach won when I first started in CNC
[09:48:31] <skunkworks> net indexstuff pin11 encodeinputA index
[09:48:32] <pcw_home> yes an output can connect to as many inputs as required
[09:48:42] <skunkworks> (I am paraphrasing...)
[09:48:47] <Aero-Tec> I wish I went with EMC
[09:49:22] <skunkworks> you did. ;)
[09:49:32] <Aero-Tec> lol
[09:49:49] <Aero-Tec> took the long rout to get there
[09:50:13] <pcw_home> you can do a minimal encoder with a 1/2 disk (4 counts/rev) using just 2 pins (A/index and B)
[09:50:14] <Aero-Tec> so if I start with a step wiz setup
[09:50:32] <pcw_home> B
[09:50:32] <Aero-Tec> do I have to remove any of the step wiz stuff
[09:50:50] <Aero-Tec> and then what would I add to make this work?
[09:51:14] <Aero-Tec> I am as green as they come in EMC
[09:52:55] * skunkworks has never uses stepwiz
[09:53:04] <pcw_home> Dont know offhand if stepconf makes any spindle control stuff
[09:53:07] <Aero-Tec> in theory that would be at most 2 counts, but emc seems to count just the leading edge
[09:53:22] <Aero-Tec> so one count and index
[09:53:44] <pcw_home> with quadrature, 4 counts/turn
[09:54:11] <Aero-Tec> that would need both A and B
[09:54:54] <Aero-Tec> index does not enter into it
[09:55:26] <Aero-Tec> it is for threading mostly to get a start of thread refferance
[09:55:30] <pcw_home> with a 1/2 disk you have a + index as one wire and B as the other
[09:55:49] <Aero-Tec> ok
[09:56:01] <Aero-Tec> I see where your going
[09:56:24] <pcw_home> so you get a full reversable encoder with index on 2 wires
[09:56:24] <Aero-Tec> cool idea
[09:56:53] <pcw_home> you need sensors at 90 degrees
[09:57:07] <Aero-Tec> so if I uploaded my hal, could some tweak it for me?
[09:57:50] <Aero-Tec> right now my opto mount will not allow more then one opto
[09:57:58] <Aero-Tec> some one
[10:03:25] <skunkworks> a working hal file - we could have a look.
[10:05:12] <Aero-Tec> http://pastebin.com/6y9Yy0Gt
[10:05:17] <joe9> what feedrate would you recommend for wood?
[10:05:26] <Aero-Tec> this is the stepwiz file
[10:05:32] <Aero-Tec> it works
[10:05:40] <Aero-Tec> thanks a million for the help
[10:06:13] <Aero-Tec> well loads, not works as the spindle working are now there
[10:06:23] <Aero-Tec> not
[10:06:31] <jthornton> joe9, one that doesn't burn the wood
[10:06:39] <Aero-Tec> man my typing is whacked this morn
[10:06:45] <jthornton> also use dead sharp tools
[10:07:01] <jthornton> I wish I could use morning as an excuse for my bad typing
[10:07:19] <joe9> heeks use a default feed rate of 3.93. i am not sure if it is too much.
[10:07:36] <jthornton> mm or inch?
[10:08:09] <Aero-Tec> would not the feed rate change for the cutter?
[10:08:16] <jthornton> aye
[10:08:42] <joe9> feedrate_hv(3.937007874, 3.937007874) -- seems to be the feedrate line in the heeks generated python script.
[10:09:36] <Aero-Tec> before one can set feed rate one would need to know carbide or HSS, number of fluts and size
[10:09:52] <Aero-Tec> they all play a part in feed speeds
[10:10:05] <Aero-Tec> oh and depth of cut
[10:10:47] <jdhNC> I snapped my last two 1/8" end mills last night trying to cut 6061 @2500rpm, 10ipm, .020 DOC. Should I just go slower?
[10:11:22] <jthornton> give me a min to go to the shop and see what it should be
[10:11:30] <jthornton> hss or carbide?
[10:11:31] <Aero-Tec> jthornton: I am using the morning as a excuse, but truth is it can be whack most all the time
[10:11:39] <jthornton> lol me too
[10:11:42] <jdhNC> carbide, 4-flute
[10:12:39] <Aero-Tec> is 2500 RPM the highest you equipment can go?
[10:13:02] <Aero-Tec> 2500 is slow for 1/8 carbide
[10:13:11] <pcw_home> Aero-Tec: so theres nothing about spindle synchronized motion in that stepconf generated file
[10:13:12] <pcw_home> Did you look at the spindle synchronized motion section of the integrators manual?
[10:13:28] <Aero-Tec> yes
[10:13:48] <Aero-Tec> was late and my head was swimming some
[10:13:56] <Aero-Tec> info overload
[10:14:21] <Aero-Tec> not much of a base to build from, I know nothing about hal
[10:14:24] <jdhNC> 2500 is faster than it is made to go.
[10:14:48] <JT-Shop> a chip load of .0005 @ 2500 is 5 IPM
[10:15:00] <Aero-Tec> so it was a overload of what to do and how to do it
[10:15:13] <JT-Shop> jdhNC: do you have a feed and speed spreadsheet?
[10:15:19] <jdhNC> JT: nope
[10:15:27] <Aero-Tec> 0.02 DOC is not much at all
[10:15:38] <jdhNC> Only done plastics up until now.
[10:15:38] <JT-Shop> do you have a spreadsheet program?
[10:15:46] <jdhNC> sure, got a spreadsheet?
[10:15:51] <JT-Shop> aye
[10:16:05] <JT-Shop> you using excel?
[10:16:06] <pcw_home> most of it applies (though the A=index business means the index input does double duty)
[10:16:08] <jdhNC> Aero-Tec: 0.020 was just a start.
[10:16:14] <jdhNC> JT: I have excel
[10:16:26] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: was that config generated with stepconf?
[10:16:34] <JT-Shop> new or old? the file is different
[10:16:40] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: yes
[10:16:57] <jdhNC> new is fine
[10:17:07] <JT-Shop> give me a min or three
[10:17:13] <jdhNC> thanks
[10:17:24] <skunkworks> I think you would go back though the stepconf wizard and connect pin11 to the encoder stuff. (I think you can...)
[10:17:44] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/stepconf.html
[10:17:51] <skunkworks> kinda shows it at the end
[10:17:57] <Aero-Tec> I have some charts for F&S, but a spread sheet would be cool
[10:20:25] <pcw_home> it would be nice if the encoder comp could generate a simulated index (so a single detector/slotted wheel could be use to make good threads)
[10:20:50] <pcw_home> (as long as the limitations of a simulated index are spelled out)
[10:21:35] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I think it does.. The encoder output has a interpolated position...
[10:22:06] <pcw_home> I dont think it has index out
[10:22:12] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: I do not have PWM or any spindle controlles setup
[10:22:31] <JT-Shop> gnipsel.com/shop/files/Machining-Excel2007.zip should work if I didn't make a typo
[10:22:37] <Aero-Tec> just turn it on manually
[10:22:45] <skunkworks> I don't think that is a problem..
[10:23:04] <pcw_home> spindle control is not needed for threading
[10:23:09] <Aero-Tec> ok will try it
[10:23:14] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[10:23:34] <JT-Shop> it even has hole saw speeds
[10:23:52] <Connor> jdhNC: You doing alumn ?
[10:23:56] <JT-Shop> jdhNC: did you see the link?
[10:24:14] <Connor> jdhNC: I use 2 flute HSS for that..
[10:24:29] <skunkworks> pcw_home: - oh - you mean for a single channel encoder - have a simulated index..
[10:24:42] <pcw_home> Yes
[10:24:44] <Connor> jdhNC: and use 1/4 or 1/2 end mills when possible..
[10:24:57] <skunkworks> I know it has been discussed.
[10:25:13] <archivist> I cannot imagine simulated index
[10:25:37] <archivist> needs to be real imo
[10:25:39] <Connor> I ended up making a new encoder disk so I got index.
[10:25:47] <jdhNC> Connor: Guess I should, I was cutting .20-ish holes at the same time
[10:25:53] <pcw_home> seems like it would be good for parallel port systems with limited input pins
[10:25:57] <skunkworks> you would tell the encoder how many counts per rev - then at each rotation - the encoder modual would ouptut and index
[10:26:03] <Connor> .20 ? Too deep for alumn.
[10:26:14] <Connor> Especially for 1/8
[10:26:29] <skunkworks> you would have to hope for accurate counting.. ;)
[10:26:33] <archivist> pcw_home, there is a problem is running at too hight a speed and missing any pulses
[10:26:36] <jthornton> jdhNC, also make sure your not recutting chips
[10:26:51] <pcw_home> well thats always a problem
[10:26:52] <jdhNC> JT: got it, thanks!
[10:27:01] <Aero-Tec> one way of doing it is slot size
[10:27:06] <jdhNC> Connor 0.5" aluminum, for the X ballscrew mount.
[10:27:07] <Connor> 2 flute for alum is really best, because it's so gummy.. 4 flute really for finish cut..
[10:27:13] <Aero-Tec> I have a disk on the lathe
[10:27:18] <Aero-Tec> 4 slots
[10:27:27] <jdhNC> connor: 0.020 deep
[10:27:28] <Connor> jdhNC: Yea, use 1/4 or 1/2 for most of the heavy lifting..
[10:27:33] <Aero-Tec> but one is longer then the others
[10:27:41] <pcw_home> but you dont need a high res encoder for threading so counting speed should not be an issue
[10:27:43] <archivist> pcw_home, I can demonstrate wrong thread pitch if the revs are high, but at least the start point is sensible
[10:27:55] <Aero-Tec> had to cover up 3 slots to get it to work with mach
[10:28:19] <Connor> Question on spindle encoders... I have Index and A, do I really need B for anything ? Does Rigid tapping require all 3 ?
[10:28:23] <archivist> pcw_home, I have a 48 slot encoder not hard to over speed
[10:28:30] <skunkworks> Connor: yes
[10:29:13] <pcw_home> except the special case of a 4 count/rev encoder where A=index
[10:29:43] <Connor> My encoder is a 16 slot..
[10:30:18] <Connor> I can't do rigid tapping yet till I get a way to reverse the spindle.
[10:31:09] <jdhNC> a tapping head might be easier
[10:31:18] <jthornton> Connor, without B there is no direction information.
[10:31:46] <Connor> jdhNC: They're a bit pricey.
[10:31:47] <Aero-Tec> I guess a simulated index would be possible if you counted and took every X count as the index, but lord help you in you miss a count or have some noise
[10:31:55] <pcw_home> threading accuracy goes up proportional to the square of spindle encoder counts so you dont need to be very high
[10:32:20] <jthornton> Aero-Tec, you only want one index per rev
[10:32:25] <Connor> well.. 64 counts if I add B, plus index.
[10:33:02] <Aero-Tec> jthornton: ture
[10:34:02] <jdhNC> connor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/280885820312
[10:34:03] <Aero-Tec> but one could have one encoder with 4 slots, one slot 1.5 to 2 time wider then the other 3
[10:34:16] <Aero-Tec> and the wide one is the index
[10:34:37] <Aero-Tec> one opto, 2 function, one pin
[10:34:52] <pcw_home> requires some fairly fancy software to track the expected widths
[10:34:56] <Aero-Tec> good threading
[10:35:14] <archivist> the index is separate pulse, not just a wide one
[10:35:31] <Aero-Tec> now yes
[10:35:48] <archivist> the software looks for the edges for position
[10:35:54] <Aero-Tec> but it could be setup differently
[10:36:16] <jdhNC> what is the best method to do spindle reversal with a ~100v, 10 amp DC motor?
[10:36:16] <archivist> then you have to phase lock...
[10:36:19] <Aero-Tec> would have to look at leading and trailing edges
[10:36:53] <archivist> it does already look at both edges
[10:36:54] <pcw_home> jdhNC: gently
[10:37:25] <archivist> if one reverses like I did in a product...some burn out :)
[10:37:44] <jthornton> jdhNC, does your spindle drive have a fwd/rev input?
[10:38:47] <Aero-Tec> running a mill cutter backwards would be not so good for cutting
[10:38:49] <Aero-Tec> LOL
[10:38:51] <jdhNC> jthorton: it has a manual forward/reverse switch
[10:39:54] <jthornton> is it smart enough to ramp down and back up when you go from fwd to rev?
[10:40:16] <jdhNC> no, it is just a switch that reverses polarity
[10:40:26] <archivist> jdhNC, if on a vfd then it is reversed safely if the ramps are set correctly
[10:40:42] <jdhNC> no vfd, just a cheap chinese KB clone
[10:41:20] <archivist> just wait till it stops before reversal then
[10:41:43] <pcw_home> I guess a DPDT relay and a spindle encoder would do
[10:43:15] <pcw_home> (or if its a PM motor, a AC input OPTO/resistor across the motor to sense when BEMF was 0)
[10:44:03] <jdhNC> is there a reason to reverse other than rigid tapping?
[10:44:44] <jthornton> I sometimes run in reverse to cut on the far side with normal tools
[10:44:53] <jthornton> but that is rare
[10:45:28] <jdhNC> I'm working on an encoder plan. I have some plain a/b/z encoders, but no good way to drive them from the spindle.
[10:46:09] <archivist> depends on setup clearance which side I cut
[10:46:16] <jthornton> how often do you find yourself wanting to rigid tap will weigh in on how much time you want to put into it
[10:46:59] <jdhNC> not sure I will ever really want to. A tap head would probably be orders of magnitude easier.
[10:47:03] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: when you re-run the stepconf - then re-post your hal file.
[10:47:17] <skunkworks> (make sure it loads first.)
[10:47:17] <jthornton> yep clearance and reach is the only reason I cut on the far side
[10:47:23] <Aero-Tec> ok
[10:47:33] <Aero-Tec> just finished and will post
[10:47:43] <jthornton> or he could post the stepconf file
[10:48:20] <jthornton> that way you get the whole config
[10:49:21] <skunkworks> jthornton: There will be some editing so - I would think the hal file would be the best. (he will not be able to run stepconf after this...)
[10:49:27] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: http://pastebin.com/N81dFx1K
[10:49:34] <jthornton> ah ok
[10:49:55] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: yay - encoder stuff
[10:50:19] <Aero-Tec> I have to manually change the pins as stepwiz will not let 2 things be on the same pin
[10:50:32] <Aero-Tec> so does it look good?
[10:50:45] <Aero-Tec> I did not get a chance to look at it yet
[10:51:06] <Aero-Tec> had just sat down when you asked for the file
[10:52:15] <skunkworks> not quite there yet...
[10:52:58] <skunkworks> yes - and remember - once you edit the hal files manually - you cannot re-run stepconf because it will over write your changes.
[10:53:13] <skunkworks> have to run for a secodn..
[10:53:19] <skunkworks> biab
[10:53:21] <Aero-Tec> I know
[10:53:33] <Aero-Tec> I have a test config I run
[10:53:51] <Aero-Tec> as I added backlash to the real hal
[10:55:21] <Aero-Tec> so I will have to edit the 2 together
[10:57:13] <Connor> jdhNC: I've been looking into maybe a different speed controller (not the c41, but the one that came with the grizzly). Some have a toggle that changes the direction via the H-bridge.
[10:57:58] <Connor> jdhNC: Another option would be to build a independent H-Bridge and interface that between the existing speed controller and the motor.
[10:58:51] <Connor> I do have another question on rigid tapping.. Is it possible to get it to stop after the down stroke to allow for manual reversing ?
[10:59:08] <JT-Shop> not that I know of
[11:00:02] <jdhNC> how many taps do you break off in the work before you figure out all the right parameters for rigid tapping?
[11:00:43] <Connor> No clue.. I had the idea of unlocking my quill and letting that be used to take up some of the slack just in case..
[11:01:27] <pcw_home> I suspect the reversal helps so it doesn't overshoot too far
[11:03:48] <djdelorie> joe9: so far, I haven't been
[11:04:20] <pcw_home> if you were chicken you could try wax first
[11:08:45] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: thry this.. http://pastebin.com/r3yLt2S1
[11:09:22] <skunkworks> I put a couple of comments in what I changed,,, assuming pin 11 is the spindle index
[11:17:56] <skunkworks> within hal - you may have to run the encoder.0.velocity through a low pass to make feed per rev to work decently with 1ppr
[11:18:54] <skunkworks> (and if you add a spindle rpm meter...) (so then you would need a scale hal componant to convert from rps to rpm)
[11:29:23] <Tom_itx> jdhNC get a tapping head
[11:29:34] <skunkworks> rigid tapping is awesome!
[11:29:52] <skunkworks> Do it!
[11:30:04] <Tom_itx> i wish i had the equipment to do it on
[11:31:14] <skunkworks> what kind of equipment are you missing?
[11:31:33] <Tom_itx> i got a cheap ass sherline
[11:31:52] <Tom_itx> i could put control on the spindle and add an encoder i suppose
[11:31:59] <Tom_itx> i don't think the motor reverses though
[11:32:18] <skunkworks> ah
[11:32:29] <Tom_itx> it's dc so it might
[11:32:42] <Tom_itx> i'm not that worried about it
[11:33:02] <Tom_itx> i get alot done on it even if it's small
[11:33:09] <skunkworks> yep
[11:33:15] * skunkworks showing off
[11:33:17] <skunkworks> http://youtu.be/2E3PMooch1k
[11:33:46] <Tom_itx> latest psu / driver pics: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[11:34:20] <Tom_itx> i've seen that video
[11:34:20] <skunkworks> jdhNC: do what it takes to mount the encoder :) http://youtu.be/5vvP4L_hr90
[11:34:46] <Tom_itx> i also see the test board beside it :)
[11:34:50] <archivist> having power tapped a few k holes, I wish I had rigid tapping at the time
[11:35:01] <skunkworks> you can never see it too often ;)
[11:35:31] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: yes - plywood was the first couple tests.. ;)
[11:35:49] <Tom_itx> my test mount until i can make/buy an enclosure: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/frame1.jpg
[11:35:58] <Tom_itx> need to finish that up soon
[11:36:12] <jdhNC> can't get video here... I don't think there is any way to attach an encoder unless I drilled out the back of the motor shaft and added something
[11:36:16] <skunkworks> nice - transformer for each drive?
[11:36:17] <archivist> my "tapping head" was a drill chuck hand held with the lathes reversing switch in the other hand
[11:36:30] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, no i combined them into one supply
[11:36:38] <Tom_itx> good for probably 18A
[11:36:42] <Tom_itx> 50v
[11:37:01] <jdhNC> you forgot the panduit
[11:37:03] <Tom_itx> i was gonna do that but decided to combine them
[11:37:06] <skunkworks> jdhNC: mine is run with a timing belt
[11:37:08] <Tom_itx> ok jymmm
[11:37:14] <Tom_itx> :)
[11:37:32] <jdhNC> skunkworks: motor shaft only has room for the gear
[11:37:51] <Tom_itx> i gotta find a use for the spare heatsink now
[11:38:02] <skunkworks> jdhNC: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/spindleencoder.JPG
[11:38:11] <jdhNC> I bought panduit, paid way too much for shipping and ended up with no room to put it in
[11:38:17] <jdhNC> same for the nifty DIN mount fuse blocks
[11:39:17] <skunkworks> we mounted the timing gear where we could.. (on a hexed end of the spinle tube) http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/spindletiminggear.JPG
[11:39:26] <jdhNC> skunkworks: that looks like the encoder I have (100line, AB)
[11:39:46] <skunkworks> this one is 1024iirc
[11:39:51] <skunkworks> abz
[11:40:15] <skunkworks> we had the bearing blow up in the first one.. we added some more support ;)
[11:40:41] <jdhNC> http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0704/parts/HEADSTOCK
[11:41:27] <jdhNC> I could put an extension on the current spindle encoder ring to get it high enough, then hang the endoder off the side.
[11:43:19] <skunkworks> jdhNC: I wonder if this would be enough for you.. (are the gears steel?)
[11:43:21] <skunkworks> pico-systems.com/Machining.html
[11:44:09] <jdhNC> which one?
[11:45:08] <Connor> jdhNC: You trying to use that existing encoder disk ?
[11:45:22] <jdhNC> I was trying to leave it in place
[11:45:40] <jdhNC> but, a real encoder would be more useful, but ugly.
[11:46:00] <Connor> yea, this is what I'm doing. I removed the motor mount.. and cut it in half. (you can buy the motor mount for $8.00 or so if that concerns you too much)
[11:46:12] <Connor> milled out the new one.. you saw the 3D part.
[11:46:23] <Connor> Now I just need to mount the slot sensors around it.
[11:46:26] <jdhNC> motor mount is $16, new encoder wheel is like $6
[11:46:47] <Connor> new encoder wheel won't give you index.
[11:47:13] <jdhNC> no, but if I screw it up making the extension I still have one I can use
[11:47:29] <jdhNC> what did you cut the new encoder wheel with (end mill)
[11:49:40] <Connor> I think I used 1/4 or 1/2 to do most of it.. then 1/8 to make the holes and do the finial outside cut to remove the part.
[11:50:32] <Connor> Then chucked it up in the lathe and took a few .001's off the outside edges and cleaned it up.. and faced it.
[12:16:47] <skunkworks> jdhNC: sorry http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
[12:18:03] <Connor> skunkworks: Why the different mounting for the brackets ?
[12:18:52] <skunkworks> Connor: I think he did whatever to make it fit...
[12:19:23] <skunkworks> plus it makes 1 adjustable... (for quadrature...)
[12:27:06] <jdhNC> I'm guessing I don't have metal gears.
[12:27:13] <jdhNC> but, haven't actually looked.
[12:31:00] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:31:13] <Tom_itx> skunkworks did you do that encoder conversion?
[12:31:43] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: no - I used a conventional encoder
[12:32:02] <Tom_itx> i was gonna ask about quadrature alignment but i see the slot now
[12:32:04] <skunkworks> that was john E of pico systems.
[12:34:24] <Tom_itx> i could actually get these drivers wired up today and test them but i'm sure i'll get distractions
[12:34:38] <jdhNC> by dancing girls?
[12:35:32] <jymmm> Tom_itx: Is that a terminal or fuse block on the left side?
[12:35:42] <Tom_itx> terminal block
[12:35:53] <jymmm> Tom_itx: where's the fuses?
[12:35:58] <Tom_itx> what fuses?
[12:36:00] <Tom_itx> :)
[12:36:09] <Tom_itx> i haven't found a suitable holder for one
[12:36:21] <Tom_itx> i will probably end up with a screw mount
[12:36:44] <Tom_itx> fuse the output or input?
[12:36:50] <jymmm> yes
[12:36:54] <Tom_itx> pfft
[12:37:10] <jymmm> fuse EACH driver, AND the mains
[12:37:30] <archivist> fuses are for wimps
[12:37:31] <Tom_itx> i wonder how big a fuse to use on the main
[12:37:41] <jdhNC> 50amp
[12:37:57] <jdhNC> make sure it doesn't blow and shut you down.
[12:37:59] <Tom_itx> archivist agreed. they're for those that are confident they'll screw up
[12:38:42] <Tom_itx> and once they blow then you're scrambling to find a 1/4" piece of copper to cram in it's place
[12:39:14] <jymmm> Tom_itx: Copper, no silly boy.... 22LR bullet
[12:39:28] <Tom_itx> ahh yeah
[12:40:14] <FinboySlick> There's got to be a recorded case of someone doing that.
[12:40:27] <Tom_itx> mythbusters tested it
[12:40:39] <archivist> should be on thereifixedit.com
[12:40:50] <jymmm> yep, straight to the crotch!
[12:41:11] <pcw_home> A blown fuse in driver DC power will likely kill the driver so its kind of a mixed blessing
[12:41:20] <FinboySlick> It's beautiful in its simplistic stupidity.
[12:42:20] <jymmm> pcw_home: Eh, guess it's better to blow up one drive than three.
[12:42:40] <archivist> drives are strong beasts
[12:42:56] <Tom_itx> yeah, at least that's what the gecko guy claims
[12:42:57] <jymmm> pcw_home: Wait, why would a blown driver fuse blow up the drive? I know disconnecting the motor fromt he drive will for sure.
[12:43:17] <pcw_home> disconnecting DC is the same
[12:43:30] <djdelorie> in my case at least, the power supply is where the braking energy goes when a motor stops
[12:44:09] <jymmm> Dont some still toss a dump resistor on there in that case?
[12:44:30] <pcw_home> for servos a DPDT relays that dumps the charge is good
[12:44:56] <pcw_home> (disconnects AC and dump DC through a resistor)
[12:45:16] <jymmm> couldn't do the same for stepper setup?
[12:45:43] <pcw_home> you can but it will not work for braking as well
[12:46:02] <jymmm> what about saving the drive from a blown fuse?
[12:46:24] <pcw_home> not fast enough
[12:46:29] <jymmm> k
[12:46:40] <Tom_itx> so just a fuse on the main?
[12:47:14] <Tom_itx> i'd rather have facts over opinions
[12:47:29] <pcw_home> a snubber built into the drive would work (but drive manufacturers are to cheap to add MOSFET for that)
[12:48:12] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, he claims the 203v is bullet proof
[12:48:31] <jymmm> EXCEPT for disconnecting the motor from the drive in operation.
[12:49:02] <pcw_home> A fuse large enough that it will only blow with a drive failure might be a good idea for fire prevention
[12:50:10] <Tom_itx> my present drivers are wired right into the supply
[12:50:37] <pcw_home> since the common AC fuse/breaker may have enough let through power to make a fair fire in one drive
[12:51:46] <jymmm> Well, I see no fuses here, so forget em http://www.geckodrive.com/support.html
[12:51:53] <pcw_home> but it does add one more point of failure so lowers reliability
[12:52:30] <archivist> and fuse failure for no apparent reason is a common failure
[12:52:36] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: ok it threads but not G95
[12:52:57] <Aero-Tec> and how do I set up the RPM meter?
[12:53:21] <pcw_home> if you disconnect DC when you have a large amount of inductive energy in your motor the DC at the drive will rise until something breaks
[12:53:41] <pcw_home> (or a snubber trips)
[12:54:01] <Aero-Tec> I need to watch that as the opto can get oil on them and setup to fail
[12:54:08] <archivist> snubber also called a crowbar over here
[12:54:22] <jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.geckodrive.com/gecko/images/cms_files/images/stardaisy.jpg
[12:55:25] <Aero-Tec> I thought a snubber was a dampener and a crowbar was a active short to trigger the braker of fuse
[12:55:27] <Tom_L> jymmm, i'm doing that
[12:55:40] <pcw_home> I wonder why someone dos not market a add-on snubber for all those cheap
[12:55:41] <pcw_home> step drivers that people are alway frying with excessive voltage
[12:56:06] <Tom_itx> why don't you?
[12:56:08] <Tom_itx> :)
[12:56:09] <jdhNC> they have them becaue they are cheap
[12:56:16] <jymmm> pcw_home: profit is in replacement sales =)
[12:56:40] <pcw_home> ;-)
[12:56:43] <Aero-Tec> one maybe able to use a MOV
[12:56:55] <pcw_home> MOVs are too sloppy
[12:57:01] <Aero-Tec> they are a active crowbar at X voltage
[12:57:08] <archivist> hardly
[12:57:09] <djdelorie> two back-to-back zeners?
[12:57:25] <pcw_home> you need a reference --> comparator -- >MOSFET
[12:57:35] <archivist> big zeners to take that energy are expensive
[12:58:03] <pcw_home> (and ~1 to 10 Ohm resistor)
[12:58:18] <Aero-Tec> they would have to be fast as well
[12:59:03] <pcw_home> You need to have enough capacitance on your drive to lower the DVDT to a level the the snubber can catch
[12:59:12] <pcw_home> that the
[13:00:28] <Aero-Tec> you know what might work is a big cap, connected to a bridge rectifier and a blocking diode to stop back feed to the motors
[13:00:29] <djdelorie> two zeners and a light bulb? A pair of TVS diodes?
[13:00:56] <jymmm> a pint can of graphite =)
[13:00:57] <Aero-Tec> zeners would not be good
[13:01:23] <pcw_home> HV zeners and TVS are not very good (we've used both schemes)
[13:01:27] <Aero-Tec> I bet the cap and bridge would work
[13:01:46] <djdelorie> "cap and diode" is basically what my setup is
[13:02:09] <djdelorie> braking energy is just returned to the power supply and saved for future use
[13:02:24] <djdelorie> essentially, regenerative braking :-)
[13:03:04] <Aero-Tec> could also use a small bleed off resistor
[13:03:28] <djdelorie> I don't even have a power switch yet...
[13:03:45] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: are you around?
[13:03:53] <Aero-Tec> we are close but not there yet
[13:04:10] <jymmm> djdelorie: Just wire it directly to the panel. Don't need no stink switch!
[13:04:27] <djdelorie> there's a switch on the power strip, otherwise I just plug it in when I want it on
[13:04:38] <djdelorie> I have separate power cords for logic power and motor power anyway
[13:04:52] <jdhNC> my enclosure came with a big power disconnect, but it might be too bulky to leave in.
[13:05:28] <djdelorie> I was thinking of one power cord and power switch for both supplies, but a separate switch between the motor power supply and the drivers
[13:05:48] <djdelorie> so "off" means OFF not wait-until-the-caps-drain
[13:05:53] <Tom_itx> ok here's another one. should logic power come up before motor power?
[13:06:07] <jdhNC> that would be nice
[13:06:10] <djdelorie> depends on your drivers
[13:06:30] <Tom_itx> the drivers shouldn't move until they get a step and direction signal
[13:06:42] <jdhNC> when I turn off my panel power, it kills the 5vdc to the 7i43 which makes LinuxCNC unhappy.
[13:06:43] <djdelorie> I mean whether they blow up or not in that case
[13:06:57] <pcw_home> you dont want to disconnect the DC from the drives unless you have something to absorb the inductive energy from the motors
[13:07:28] <Tom_itx> pcw_home let the supply caps bleed off slowly?
[13:07:48] <djdelorie> yeah, I figured I'd have to add something after the switch
[13:08:28] <pcw_home> for servos its better to have a DPDT relay that opens the AC and shorts the capacitors via a dump resistor when off/faulted
[13:08:42] <Tom_itx> these are steppers
[13:08:50] <pcw_home> that way you get braking
[13:09:11] <Tom_itx> the relay would need to handle the full continuous motor power though wouldn't it?
[13:09:33] <pcw_home> for steppers its less important
[13:09:33] * Tom_itx grabs some old elevator relays he stuffed in a box
[13:09:35] <djdelorie> or SPDT that switches the controllers from the DC power supply to a big light bulb?
[13:10:07] <djdelorie> pcw_home: steppers draw high current when stopped, servos don't. That makes the problem *worse* for steppers
[13:10:34] <pcw_home> you dont want to disconnect your capacitors from the drives (if you lik eyour drives)
[13:10:47] <Tom_itx> djdelorie, these drivers claim they reduce current by 70% 1 sec after last pulse is received
[13:10:59] <djdelorie> that's still 30% of max current, vs 0% for servos
[13:11:28] <pcw_home> right but at a fault or shutdown servo current could be anything
[13:12:36] <Tom_itx> i wish someone would draw up a recomended wiring diagram for both types of systems
[13:12:49] <pcw_home> the relay only carries the AC primary current continuously (the DC side only a surge when turned off)
[13:12:51] <Tom_itx> i'm somewhat going off my old driver setup
[13:13:05] <Tom_itx> and somewhat off the advice here
[13:14:12] <Tom_itx> the old driver may have a line fuse but i didn't notice any other protection or bleed off setup
[13:15:57] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: what is the issue
[13:16:21] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, ok so one side of the DPDT relay carries the mains and the other side is for the dc bleed off resistor or whatever is used
[13:16:42] <pcw_home> For step motors I am assuming yo have enough output capacitance to absorb all
[13:16:42] <Aero-Tec> G95 will not see the spindle running
[13:16:44] <pcw_home> the motors stored inductive energy in your capacitors without raising the voltage to dangerous levels
[13:16:46] <pcw_home> the purpose of the dump relay is to stop the servo system quickly its not much help for step motors
[13:16:52] <pcw_home> as they dont brake worth sh*t
[13:16:52] <Tom_itx> i considered using a dpdt switch that way
[13:16:53] <Tom_itx> why would you need a relay?
[13:16:59] <Aero-Tec> also need RPM display
[13:17:14] <Aero-Tec> it will thread now
[13:17:28] <pcw_home> for a servo system its part of the estop chain
[13:17:38] <Aero-Tec> you mentioned a low pass thing
[13:18:25] <pcw_home> but probably overkill on a step motor sized system
[13:18:45] <Tom_itx> i'm just gonna wire them to the driver and not worry about it
[13:19:00] <Tom_itx> now, what about driver fuses?
[13:19:10] <Tom_itx> i will have one mains fuse for sure
[13:19:22] <Tom_itx> you say that may kill the driver
[13:19:22] <andypugh> Black powder or dynamite?
[13:19:33] <pcw_home> I would not worry about individual driver fuses
[13:19:35] <jymmm> andypugh: ANFO
[13:19:40] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: you said "within hal - you may have to run the encoder.0.velocity through a low pass to make feed per rev to work decently with 1ppr"
[13:19:47] <Tom_itx> jymmm yeah, it's quicker
[13:20:18] <Aero-Tec> would like to know also how to setup the RPM
[13:21:06] <Tom_itx> one could use an old auto defroster coil as a bleed
[13:21:10] <Tom_itx> if you can still find them
[13:21:30] <Tom_itx> heating element
[13:21:54] <ReadError> *facepalm*
[13:21:58] <pcw_home> incandescent light bulb if they are still legal
[13:22:00] <ReadError> amazon, ordered 2 of the same endmills
[13:22:07] <ReadError> they ship it 2 seperate packages
[13:22:11] <ReadError> 1 is a day late!
[13:22:25] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: does threading work?
[13:22:46] <Aero-Tec> it looks like it does
[13:22:52] <skunkworks> cool!
[13:22:52] <Aero-Tec> did not do a cut
[13:23:02] <Aero-Tec> but did cut air and it looked good
[13:23:42] <Aero-Tec> so just need the G95 to work and a RPM meter and I should be good to go
[13:24:17] <jymmm> Here ya go, a big ass dump resisotr pre wired http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202519662/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=electric+starter&storeId=10051
[13:25:24] <jymmm> 110VAC @ 500W
[13:26:33] <pcw_home> for step motors the dump circuit is also less needed as the idle current will drop the voltage quickly
[13:27:02] <djdelorie> my servos are still "live" for a few seconds after I unplug them
[13:27:23] <djdelorie> to kill them off faster, I just jog the machine ;-)
[13:27:31] <pcw_home> really its a servo thing (where idling servo draw ~0 current)
[13:27:42] <pcw_home> Yep
[13:28:08] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: you remed out encoder A input
[13:28:33] <Aero-Tec> I will try to put it back in and change the pin to 11, it was 12
[13:28:37] <pcw_home> but for estop especially you may want to dump the charge ASAP
[13:32:25] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: Hal does not like 2 things on one pin
[13:33:09] <Aero-Tec> I will have to rewire encoder A to a second pin, tie 11 and 12 together or something
[13:33:43] <Aero-Tec> that would give a encoder A input
[13:33:49] <Aero-Tec> or would I have to even do that?
[13:34:56] <pcw_home> hal shou have no problems with multiple destinations on a net, only multiple sources (a "short")
[13:44:33] <Guthur> I know this channel isn't specifically about CNC machine design but would anyone have open source CNC mill/router designs they could suggest?
[13:44:41] <Guthur> I know of DIYLILCNC
[13:46:24] <andypugh> I would suggest looking at lots of other designs and keeping the bits you like.
[13:46:45] <jdhNC> example?
[13:47:04] <Guthur> yeah I really want to bring in more examples
[13:47:24] <Guthur> but the only things I have found Open Source so far are DIYLILCNC and MakerSlide
[13:47:40] <Guthur> MakeSlide is just a linear bearing
[13:48:27] <Guthur> I would reasonably detailed designs because I am not a mechanical engineer by trade, but willing to get a few bashed thumbs and learn, hehe
[13:48:31] <djdelorie> you can copy mine, but I wouldn't recommend it: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/
[13:49:27] <Guthur> djdelorie: maybe you are being modest, hehe
[13:49:44] <djdelorie> mine was cobbled together based on whatever surplus parts we had available
[13:51:39] <Guthur> I was hoping that I could find a reasonably scalable design, where I could build a small prototype to learn, with the possibility of scaling it up later in a subsequent build
[13:52:05] <Guthur> that thought was making me a little wary of the DIYLILCNC design
[13:52:18] <Guthur> it's neat and all but I don't think one could scale it up much
[13:53:08] <Guthur> djdelorie: those pictures should prove useful enough, you show quite a lot of the workings
[13:53:13] <Guthur> which is good
[13:53:36] <djdelorie> it was a simple design, but given I started with a woodworking shop... ;-)
[13:53:49] <jdhNC> look at as many as you can, decide what you like about bearings, rails, screws, etc. Find what parts you think will have good fit/value/rigidity, design your own around the parts.
[13:54:57] <andypugh> I just found this one, but I am not sute what is "open" source about charging for it.. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1738994529/kikori-open-source-cnc-gantry-router
[13:55:13] <andypugh> He does recommend LinuxCNC as the controller though.
[13:55:38] <djdelorie> money has nothing to do with open source or free software
[13:55:51] <djdelorie> OSS/FS is about the licensing model
[13:56:10] <djdelorie> even the FSF makes money by charging people for source code
[13:56:16] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: no. I remarked out one furhter down - but hooked them up in the encoder area
[13:56:41] <skunkworks> if threading worked - then it was setup right. We just need to setup a lowpass for the spindle velocity.
[13:57:29] <skunkworks> what happend when you tried to do a g95?
[13:59:19] <andypugh> djdelorie: I am aware of that, but couldn't quite figure out his Kickstarter thing. However, reading http://www.sindrianarts.com/ it seems that the idea is that the Kickstarter money buys him the parts and equipment to develop it, and then the plans are to be OS.
[14:00:13] <andypugh> Looking at that design, it seems a fair bit more rigid in the cantry than many others.
[14:00:29] <djdelorie> the kickstarter does say backers get the design files
[14:02:03] <Guthur> andypugh: cheers for the linkk
[14:02:17] <djdelorie> here's the download: http://www.sindrianarts.com/kikori-1-4-design-files/
[14:02:19] <Guthur> looks interesting, though I don't think the project is quite complete yet
[14:02:26] <andypugh> I think that the idea might be that anyone can have the design files, and backers also get chairs or ipad stands etc.
[14:03:13] <Guthur> kickstarter seems to helping a few Open Source hardware projects which is sweet
[14:06:22] <Guthur> awesome I had missed the design files, cheers djdelorie
[14:13:16] <adb> how we open ~.dxf file ?
[14:13:32] <djdelorie> mine popped up in qcad
[14:14:22] <adb> good, tks
[14:16:00] <Aero-Tec> complains the spindle is stopped
[14:16:43] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: complains the spindle is stopped
[14:16:59] <archivist> some diagnosis required
[14:17:20] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: Is the spindle plugged into the wall?
[14:17:25] <alex4nder-> hey
[14:17:37] <Aero-Tec> lol
[14:17:39] <Aero-Tec> it was turning
[14:18:28] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: I can not see where you tied encoder A to a pin
[14:18:52] <Aero-Tec> can you work on only the index?
[14:19:17] <Aero-Tec> or did you tie encoder A to the index in Hal?
[14:20:20] <archivist> a would not go to index!
[14:21:14] <archivist> assuming a normal encoder A+ Z encoder
[14:23:47] <Aero-Tec> I installed the resistors and have tied pin 11 an12 together, unremmed the encoder A pin 12 and will test to see if it works
[14:27:55] <andypugh> It just occurred to me that there is a slight bootstrap problem with that Open Source Router.
[14:28:17] <Aero-Tec> well that did not work
[14:28:39] <Aero-Tec> the resistors may have fixed the drive problem
[14:29:04] <Aero-Tec> they tested good, running well, but that would come and go so not sure yet
[14:29:53] <Aero-Tec> the file loaded, just will not see the spindle running
[14:31:44] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: http://pastebin.com/HL4AHbBf
[14:31:50] <Aero-Tec> new hal
[14:32:06] <Aero-Tec> had to six the z dir pin
[14:32:36] <Aero-Tec> reverse the dir of it
[14:32:37] <Connor> six the z dir pin ?
[14:32:40] <skunkworks> net spindle-index <= parport.0.pin-11-in
[14:32:42] <skunkworks> net spindle-index encoder.0.phase-A
[14:32:44] <skunkworks> net spindle-index encoder.0.phase-Z
[14:32:56] <skunkworks> that is how the index is tied to the A
[14:33:11] <Aero-Tec> ok
[14:33:20] <Connor> Yea. I think that's what I'm doing ATM.. till I get my A and B working.
[14:33:22] <skunkworks> says spindle is not turning?
[14:33:46] <Aero-Tec> yes
[14:34:09] <Aero-Tec> says can not move when spindle is stopped in G95 mode
[14:34:17] <Aero-Tec> or something close to that
[14:34:34] <Aero-Tec> I can get the exact wording
[14:34:39] <skunkworks> ok
[14:34:47] <Aero-Tec> but threading works fine it would seam
[14:36:07] <Aero-Tec> the new hal fixes the z dir
[14:36:33] <Aero-Tec> other then that is should be you hal
[14:41:05] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: could you see if I got it right?b http://pastebin.com/0i9myY53
[14:41:35] <skunkworks> setp lowpass.0.gain 0.01 sets the filter
[14:42:16] <skunkworks> you should halmeter the motion.spindle-speed-in and see what you get. It should be in spindle RPS
[14:42:51] <skunkworks> and should be pretty smooth (not bouncing around too much)
[14:44:30] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: sorry one small mistake.. This should be close.. http://pastebin.com/5m7ZJPD5
[14:48:25] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: are you actully starting the spindle in gcode for the g95?
[14:48:37] <skunkworks> (m05s100 or such)
[14:48:47] <skunkworks> heh
[14:48:53] <skunkworks> (m03s100 or such)
[14:51:41] <skunkworks> because I get a 'cannot feed with zero spindle speed in feed per rev mode' if I don't turn the spindle on first...
[14:55:16] <skunkworks> (might try that first...)
[14:55:21] <andypugh> I got some sample pieces from a local laser cutter today. They make solder stencils for PCB making, so have a machine set up with a 25um laser that cuts up to 0.25mm stainless. Which sounds just the job for making high-count encoder discs.
[14:55:47] <skunkworks> neat!
[14:56:19] <andypugh> Minimum charge of £50, but I don't yet know how many I get for that.
[14:56:32] <andypugh> (I think they need to see the cut path)
[14:56:46] <skunkworks> Question in general then... do you need to filter the encoder velocity coming from a 1ppr encoder - I would think you would if you want to do feed per rev type stuff
[14:57:22] <andypugh> Feed per rev is on position, and the position-interpolated pin tries to smooth that out.
[14:57:26] <skunkworks> we have a few encoders that have a stainless steel encoder wheel...
[14:57:27] <archivist> there is also photo chemical etch companies, I have a sample encoder disk here somewhere
[14:57:59] <andypugh> Yes, I got a quote from Photofab too, £200 for 25 of them. which is OK, but I only want 2
[14:57:59] <skunkworks> feed per rev is not using position - it uses motion.spindle-speed-in
[14:58:30] <andypugh> skunkworks: Are you sure? Threading uses motion-spindle-revs
[14:59:43] <skunkworks> andypugh: correct... but feed per rev uses motion.spindle-speed-in IN FLOAT
[14:59:44] <skunkworks> Actual spindle speed feedback in revolutions per second; used for G96 feed-per-revolution and constant surface speed modes.
[14:59:50] <andypugh> Hmm, yes, the docs do say that, don't they?
[15:00:02] <skunkworks> heh
[15:00:36] <skunkworks> I am pretty sure I had to hook it up to do some cylinder boring on the K&t in feed per rev
[15:00:54] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: did not work
[15:00:59] <Tom_itx> is this lathe or mill?
[15:01:06] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: what didn't work?
[15:01:22] <Aero-Tec> loading the Hal
[15:01:27] <skunkworks> what is the error?
[15:01:33] <frallzor> ayyy thar mateys
[15:01:40] <andypugh> It always tells you what the problem is.
[15:01:41] <Aero-Tec> http://pastebin.com/fQhWcibi
[15:01:53] * Tom_itx wonders if fragalot wears an eyepatch
[15:01:58] <Aero-Tec> the error report
[15:02:08] <andypugh> 'motion.spindle-speed-in' was already linked to signal 'spindle-velocity'
[15:02:11] <fragalot> Tom_itx: I don't
[15:02:31] <frallzor> ;)
[15:02:39] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: did you use my second pastebin?
[15:02:43] <andypugh> So swap motion.spindle-speed-in to spindle-velocity in the new stuff that you added
[15:02:51] <Aero-Tec> just saw it
[15:02:54] <Aero-Tec> will try it
[15:03:25] <frallzor> Im happy I have a mechmate todayh with mdh spoilboard, tool got loose, milled right trough 60mm wood in total in 2 passes
[15:03:38] <frallzor> and then all on the floor as ending
[15:03:47] <Aero-Tec> I did do a s1000 m3 in gcode
[15:03:48] <skunkworks> (I forgot to remark out the original line on the first pastebin)
[15:04:07] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: and that didn't work for g95?
[15:05:44] <Aero-Tec> will try your new code now
[15:15:07] <Aero-Tec> same error
[15:15:27] <Aero-Tec> but spindle index is working
[15:16:04] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: spindle velocity is showing up in the scope
[15:16:54] <skunkworks> scope?
[15:17:52] <skunkworks> does it look correct? around the right RPS for what the spindle is actually turning?
[15:18:44] <Aero-Tec> http://pastebin.com/TucvK4Xz
[15:18:53] <Aero-Tec> my gcode
[15:18:59] <Aero-Tec> will check spindle speed in scope
[15:20:34] <skunkworks> what scope are you talking about? within linuxcnc?
[15:22:53] <JT-Shop> this what you had to hook up to get G95 to work?
[15:22:54] <JT-Shop> motion.spindle-speed-in IN FLOAT
[15:22:54] <JT-Shop> Actual spindle speed feedback in revolutions per second; used for G96 feed-per-revolution and constant surface speed modes.
[15:23:39] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: yes the emc scope
[15:23:48] <Aero-Tec> 1/div
[15:23:57] <Aero-Tec> just shy of 5 divs
[15:24:30] <Aero-Tec> the pullies were set to 320
[15:24:53] <skunkworks> hmm - then I would think it is working...
[15:24:55] <Aero-Tec> not sure how to read the speed in emc scope
[15:25:08] <MDesade> ok, im back for a few moments
[15:25:17] <MDesade> whats going on?
[15:25:35] <Aero-Tec> trying to make my lathe run in EMC
[15:25:46] <Aero-Tec> working on Hal file
[15:25:53] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: you can use halmeter for simple things.. it will give you a number.. It is right around where the halscope menu itiem is..
[15:25:58] <Aero-Tec> did the Gcode look good?
[15:26:25] <Aero-Tec> want I should look at halmeter?
[15:26:28] <MDesade> gotcha... i "need" to get a lathe... very handy tool to have
[15:26:42] <andypugh> I do a lot more on the lathe than the mill.
[15:26:58] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: it runs on the lathe sim...
[15:29:29] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: look at the motion.spindle-speed-in
[15:31:30] <Aero-Tec> the spindle velocity in the halmeter is 4.7
[15:31:49] <Aero-Tec> will check it
[15:31:51] <skunkworks> is it running at about 282 rpm?
[15:32:04] <Aero-Tec> should be 320
[15:32:07] <MDesade> yeah, i just need to justify it to the lady
[15:32:15] <Aero-Tec> but does run slow
[15:32:24] <Aero-Tec> so it could be 282
[15:32:30] <skunkworks> so that is probably right...
[15:32:37] <skunkworks> double check in halmeter thought
[15:32:39] <skunkworks> though
[15:32:42] <Aero-Tec> very close if not right
[15:32:50] <Aero-Tec> but I would say it is right
[15:33:15] <Aero-Tec> do you still need to me check spindle speed in?
[15:33:28] <skunkworks> I would double check it - in halmeter..
[15:33:36] <Aero-Tec> ok
[15:33:41] <Aero-Tec> BRB
[15:33:49] <skunkworks> In mdi - I did a m3s300
[15:33:54] <skunkworks> then a g95
[15:34:35] <Connor> I need to get my spindle speed control re-written.. it's hacked to death and uses funky stuff.. (PID feedback)
[15:34:57] <jdhNC> what's wrong with PID
[15:35:03] <skunkworks> then g1x1f.001 and it worked in sim.
[15:35:21] <Connor> It's done using SUM.. I think andypugh was saying better way to do it..
[15:35:46] <Connor> Nothing wrong with PID itself.. just the way my HAL file is configured.
[15:36:37] <jdhNC> is the motor shaft visible from the top of the motor?
[15:37:03] <Connor> Need to figure out what ohm resistor to use with my slot sensors and get those soldered in on my board so I can finalize my e-stop box.
[15:37:06] <Aero-Tec> it was 4.7 as well
[15:37:29] <Connor> yea, but, it's below the casing.
[15:37:38] <Aero-Tec> so why will not G95 work?
[15:38:28] <skunkworks> hmm - could you try that in mdi? 3 lines m3s300 ; g95 ; g1x1f.001 (make sure you can go to x1 without crashing)
[15:39:18] <Aero-Tec> ok
[15:39:20] <Aero-Tec> will do
[15:39:25] <mrsun> aparently my set screws are harder then hss endmills :/
[15:39:50] <Aero-Tec> is m3 before s?
[15:40:09] <Aero-Tec> I think I did S them M3
[15:40:46] <skunkworks> don't know if it matters - but I did the above.
[15:41:14] <skunkworks> (and your program works in sim lathe..)
[15:49:06] <andypugh> PID with FF0 is the way to do spindle.
[15:50:04] <Aero-Tec> mid work
[15:50:10] <Aero-Tec> gcode does not
[15:50:19] <Aero-Tec> even moved m3
[15:50:34] <Aero-Tec> so how on earth can that happen?
[15:50:42] <Connor> andypugh: Yea.. The example needs to be updated.. it's using something else..
[15:52:10] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: so - the mdi worked and ran the feed at about .28ipm?
[15:52:32] <Aero-Tec> it was slow slow
[15:52:35] <Aero-Tec> took forever
[15:52:48] <skunkworks> assuming the spindle was 282 rpm
[15:52:54] <Aero-Tec> did not time it
[15:53:24] <Aero-Tec> I could time it, but sure it was several minuets
[15:53:53] <Aero-Tec> also tried a z move to 0.006
[15:54:04] <skunkworks> 3.5 minuts.. but you could have looked at the feed rate - should have been about .28
[15:54:16] <Aero-Tec> it was much faster
[15:54:27] <skunkworks> ok - seems to be working.
[15:54:31] <Aero-Tec> yes
[15:54:39] <skunkworks> so the gcode you had above is what you are trying to run?
[15:54:49] <Aero-Tec> so why not gcode?
[15:55:16] <Aero-Tec> for the most part
[15:55:31] <Aero-Tec> had to move the code from chip to HD
[15:55:44] <Aero-Tec> as EMC would not let me see the USB
[15:56:25] <Aero-Tec> only change was moving M3 to the same line as S1000
[15:56:41] <Aero-Tec> I can get the code and upload it
[15:57:16] <skunkworks> could you do a m3s1000 from mdi - then run your program?
[15:57:19] <skunkworks> for grins
[15:57:37] <Aero-Tec> ok
[15:59:03] <mrsun> hmm, it says "carbide end mill hrc45" ... how can carbide have only hrc of 45 ? :)
[15:59:15] <mrsun> or what do they mean by it? :)
[15:59:44] <archivist> does it mean it cuts that hardness
[16:00:53] <mrsun> but hrc45 isnt very hard :P
[16:01:10] <joe9> in linuxcnc configure, I get this message http://codepad.org/hY7Ejhym configure: WARNING: --enable-run-in-place will be removed soon.
[16:01:13] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: again - the program that you posted here - runs just perfect in sim lathe.. (asks for 3 tools)
[16:01:20] <mrsun> hrc63 they also have, that would be a bit more usefull =)
[16:01:20] <joe9> Configure without specifying --prefix to get a run-in-place build.
[16:01:30] <skunkworks> could you try the exact gcode that you posted?
[16:01:32] <andypugh> joe9: And?
[16:01:53] <joe9> andypugh, just felt that was interesting.
[16:02:12] <andypugh> I just use "make" which seems to automatically configure if it needs to
[16:02:36] <andypugh> But run-in-place is the default now for compiled LinuxCNC
[16:02:38] <joe9> andypugh: hah, good to know. thanks.
[16:05:26] <Aero-Tec> mid works
[16:05:31] <Aero-Tec> program not
[16:05:41] <skunkworks> setp scale.0.gain 60
[16:05:43] <skunkworks> oops
[16:05:50] <Aero-Tec> mid will not work after gcode run
[16:06:06] <Aero-Tec> untill you do a m3 s1000
[16:06:17] <Aero-Tec> then it will work again
[16:06:25] <Aero-Tec> will try the posted code
[16:06:37] <skunkworks> it seems like the program is not turning on the spindle... (or turning it off again)
[16:11:19] <Aero-Tec> it was the same
[16:12:10] <Aero-Tec> I ran the spindle spped in after the gcode run and it said 4.7 still
[16:12:17] <Aero-Tec> speed
[16:12:27] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: http://pastebin.com/FjDnRChx for future reference (if I did it right) adds a spindle-rpm-filtered pin that gives you rpm. If you look at the sim lathe example - you can add then a virtual panel to the left of linuxcnc that has spindle rpm. (you need the postgui.hal, xml and a few things setup in the ini.
[16:12:49] <skunkworks> can we see the gcode?
[16:13:31] <Aero-Tec> what Gcode are you looking for?
[16:13:43] <Aero-Tec> you have the one
[16:13:47] <skunkworks> the gcode you are running that isn't working
[16:13:56] <Aero-Tec> I can send you the other version
[16:14:08] <Aero-Tec> they both do not work
[16:14:20] <Aero-Tec> but will send you the other version as well
[16:14:24] <skunkworks> hmm - that doesn't make sense.
[16:17:17] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: yes - if the spindle is physically running - the pin will always show whatever the spindle is spinning at. But linuxcnc needs to know that the spindle is commanded (m03swhatever)
[16:17:39] <skunkworks> could you make a simple gcode program that is similar to the mdi code you are running?
[16:17:45] <skunkworks> just to be sure?
[16:19:18] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:21:18] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: will do
[16:21:32] <Aero-Tec> uploading the other version now
[16:22:27] <Aero-Tec> http://pastebin.com/2UKDken7
[16:22:41] <Aero-Tec> will try out your new Hal as well
[16:28:03] <skunkworks> if you halmeter spindle-rpm-filtered pin using the new hal file - it should give you spindle speed in rpm
[16:33:49] <skunkworks> your second gcode program runs just fine in simlathe also...
[16:38:59] <Aero-Tec> OK THE TEST VERSION WORKS
[16:39:05] <Aero-Tec> oops
[16:39:13] <Aero-Tec> code writing again
[16:39:43] <Aero-Tec> so why does the sim like the old code and the lathe does not?
[16:39:55] <Aero-Tec> can post the test code if you want
[16:40:13] <Aero-Tec> or could paste it here
[16:40:13] <Aero-Tec> small
[16:40:26] <skunkworks> heh
[16:40:52] <Aero-Tec> G18 G20 G40 G49 G90 G94 G80
[16:40:54] <skunkworks> I don't know - someone like cradek or others will have look.
[16:40:54] <Aero-Tec> G20
[16:40:56] <Aero-Tec> G95
[16:40:57] <Aero-Tec> M3 S300
[16:41:01] <Aero-Tec> F0.006
[16:41:03] <Aero-Tec> G1 Z0.5
[16:41:04] <Aero-Tec> M2
[16:41:13] <Aero-Tec> that worked
[16:42:18] <Aero-Tec> so I guess I have to track down the problem in the old code to see why it will not work
[16:42:32] <Aero-Tec> that a million for your help
[16:42:44] <Aero-Tec> looks like you run your own shop
[16:43:05] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: how do you find the time to run a shop and help so much here?
[16:43:43] <Aero-Tec> I was judging you owning a shop from the video you posted
[16:44:34] <Aero-Tec> most guy would not let someone else play with there machines
[16:44:36] <skunkworks> heh - no that is actually hobby...
[16:44:58] <skunkworks> (some people have boats)
[16:45:04] <Aero-Tec> that shop is a hobby shop?
[16:45:21] <Aero-Tec> wow
[16:45:21] <skunkworks> I am IT in my normal life...
[16:45:39] <Aero-Tec> well thanks again
[16:45:46] <Aero-Tec> looks like it is fixed
[16:46:12] <Aero-Tec> now to find out why the old code will not work
[16:46:13] <skunkworks> No problem - if I am around later - we could setup your RPM meter... but take a look at the simlathe configs
[16:46:34] <Aero-Tec> ok
[16:46:37] <skunkworks> You could pretty much use the info there just getting rid of the spindle at speed stuff.
[16:46:40] <Aero-Tec> sounds good
[16:47:06] <skunkworks> (again - you need a postgui.hal file, xml file for the meter and some config in the ini file.
[16:47:41] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: we will need some video... ;)
[16:48:45] <Aero-Tec> is there a link to some docs on how to set up the RPM meter
[16:48:54] <Aero-Tec> will do on the video
[16:49:08] <Aero-Tec> not much to look at and a real mess
[16:49:15] <Aero-Tec> needs cleaning real bad
[16:49:56] <skunkworks> heh
[16:50:01] <Aero-Tec> I clean what is needed but around that can get real messy
[16:50:41] <skunkworks> look at example 4 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/pyvcp.html
[16:50:47] <skunkworks> pretty close to what you want...
[16:50:51] <Aero-Tec> guess doing a vid is as good a excuse as any for a grad clean up, poor lathe will die of shock
[16:50:57] <Aero-Tec> lol
[16:51:05] <skunkworks> (you just don't need the spindle at speed stuff)
[16:51:22] <skunkworks> heh
[16:52:02] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: you should be able to do css now too - I know you couldn't with mach..
[16:53:42] <Aero-Tec> I need to change the motor to 3 phase and then add a VSD
[16:53:49] <Aero-Tec> or VFD
[16:54:00] <Aero-Tec> depending on what you like to call it
[16:54:04] <skunkworks> heh
[16:54:13] <skunkworks> so - no speed control other than pullys atm?
[16:54:23] <Aero-Tec> single phase to 3 phase
[16:54:32] <Aero-Tec> right
[16:54:43] <skunkworks> they are nice...
[16:54:58] <skunkworks> bbl
[16:55:01] <Aero-Tec> will add a 3 HP motor when I do the change over
[16:55:56] <Aero-Tec> and change the belts to timing belts so no slipage
[16:56:50] <JT-Shop> Aero-Tec: did you know that the AutomationDirect VS2 drive will run up to a 3hp 3phase motor from single phase and LinuxCNC has a driver for it to control the drive
[16:57:14] <JT-Shop> via modbus
[16:57:25] <JT-Shop> sorry GS2
[16:57:58] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/drivers/GS2.html
[16:58:11] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, common on the gecko driver goes to gnd or frame gnd?
[16:58:22] <Tom_itx> or both
[16:58:47] <JT-Shop> for the DC power?
[16:58:56] <Tom_itx> step dir common
[16:59:44] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna tie it to signal gnd
[16:59:55] <JT-Shop> I think I grounded mine at the power supply
[17:00:01] <JT-Shop> the 0v line
[17:00:25] <Tom_itx> it's all gnd just may be quieter in places
[17:09:02] <Aero-Tec> JT-Shop: I was looking at that, that was the one I planed on getting if it would work with EMC
[17:09:31] <Aero-Tec> thanks for the info, now I know it will work
[17:09:34] <JT-Shop> I use one on my BP knee mill and LinuxCNC controls the spindle
[17:09:55] <JT-Shop> nice fast reversal if you also get the braking resistor
[17:10:03] <Aero-Tec> want to upgrade my mill to one as well
[17:32:30] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: did you try the new hal file?
[17:32:59] <Aero-Tec> I have it working
[17:33:08] <Aero-Tec> but have not checked it out yet
[17:33:25] <Aero-Tec> will do that now
[17:34:00] <Aero-Tec> was looking into the gcode problem
[17:34:33] <skunkworks__> that doesn't sound like any fun ;)
[17:42:19] <alex4nder-> hey
[17:43:46] <skunkworks__> ho
[17:47:16] <JT-Shop> who you calling a ho?
[17:47:40] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Your tractor Biotch!
[18:05:02] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: your new hal works good
[18:05:08] <Aero-Tec> read the rpm
[18:08:15] <skunkworks__> great - do you want to try to setup an rpm panel?
[18:16:18] <skunkworks__> (i guess you cannot do css until you can control the spindle...)
[18:19:07] <Aero-Tec> yes would like to set it up
[18:20:06] <skunkworks__> so if you look at section 4 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/pyvcp.html
[18:20:14] <skunkworks__> you need to create 2 files.
[18:20:42] <skunkworks__> an xml file and a hal file
[18:21:19] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: yep you need spindle speed control for CSS
[18:21:37] <skunkworks__> JT-Shop: I was not really thinking about it
[18:22:16] <JT-Shop> me neither
[18:23:02] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: create a file spindle.xml in your config directory and copy/paste the xml into it from the manual.
[18:23:27] <Aero-Tec> will do
[18:23:33] <skunkworks__> then create a spindle_to_pyvcp.hal file with net spindle-rpm-filtered => pyvcp.spindle-speed in it.
[18:23:46] <skunkworks__> (like the example)
[18:24:32] <skunkworks__> then open your ini file and add PYVCP = spindle.xml in your [display] section
[18:25:19] <skunkworks__> and add POSTGUI_HALFILE = spindle_to_pyvcp.hal to your [hal] section. (I am reading this from the example - so you could just follow that)
[18:26:19] <skunkworks__> remember linux is case sensitive
[18:27:48] <tjb1> Good evening all
[18:30:21] <JT-Shop> yes it is
[18:31:08] <skunkworks__> JT-Shop: how are you physically comunicating to the vfd? serial?
[18:31:36] <JT-Shop> the GS2?
[18:31:39] <skunkworks__> yes
[18:31:45] <JT-Shop> modbus
[18:31:55] <JT-Shop> and the GS2 component
[18:32:10] <JT-Shop> so yes the serial port
[18:32:16] <skunkworks__> ah - ok
[18:34:18] <tjb1> Finally started working today, 1 step closer to the plasma table :)
[18:35:48] <jdhNC> .5" end mills make a lot more chips than .125's
[18:36:59] <Tom_itx> 6" shell mills throw them further
[18:37:25] <jdhNC> I bet
[18:37:43] <jdhNC> so this 2500rpm spindle is pretty limiting for aluminum?
[18:37:43] <JT-Shop> I was told the chips from a face mill should look like a rooster tail coming off the part if your speeds and feed is correct
[18:38:16] <JT-Shop> not really, you just have to adjust your IPM to get the correct chip load
[18:38:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop i watched one on a Mori cutting ~1/4" pass dry; tossing chips off white hot
[18:38:38] <Tom_itx> steel
[18:39:00] <Tom_itx> i didn't bother inspecting their shape
[18:39:10] <JT-Shop> I've cut hardend steel and the chips were hot but the part stayed at room temp with no coolant at all
[18:39:17] <Tom_itx> yep
[18:40:13] <Tom_itx> you knew it was working too
[18:40:20] <jdhNC> this part looks beautiful (relatively) except were it broke out
[18:40:22] <JT-Shop> aye
[18:40:25] <tjb1> Anyone know the amperage coming out of the voltage divider on the CPC of a hypertherm?
[18:40:44] <JT-Shop> it's a voltage signal
[18:40:55] <tjb1> So no amps at all?
[18:41:02] <JT-Shop> not really
[18:41:04] <Tom_itx> minimal
[18:41:12] <Tom_itx> it's a signal voltage
[18:41:22] <JT-Shop> milli amp
[18:41:33] <tjb1> Cool, less work for me
[18:41:49] <tjb1> Thanks
[18:46:02] <skunkworks__> http://youtu.be/1a0YpKfSGE8
[18:47:52] <andypugh> skunkworks: Can't you manage a real depth of cut?
[18:48:09] <JT-Shop> are they std inserts for steel?
[18:51:29] <roycroft> when i was your age we used to gnaw hardened steel off with our bare teeth
[18:51:36] <roycroft> we didn't need any fancey inserts
[18:51:56] <jdhNC> you can get carbide or ceramic dentures now
[18:52:08] <djdelorie> ha! When I was a kid, we didn't even have metal. Had to gnaw on rocks and dirt.
[18:52:11] <skunkworks__> andypugh: sure! (I like to take my time..)
[18:52:46] <Aero-Tec> got the meter to show up
[18:52:48] <andypugh> I always thought that SiC teeth might be handy
[18:52:50] <Aero-Tec> but no reading
[18:53:01] <skunkworks__> the spindle is running?
[18:53:17] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: that proved to be a bit much for a TC mill bit lately
[18:53:18] <jdhNC> the tormach face milling video is pretty cool.
[18:53:27] <roycroft> we used to dream about having rocks and dirt to gnaw on
[18:53:31] <Loetmichel> had to mill slate....
[18:53:46] <andypugh> Ah, no, wait, I had a whiter ceramic in mind.
[18:54:02] <Loetmichel> result: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13206 (left before, right after milling a pocket in a slate block)
[18:54:26] <Loetmichel> the slate had obviously some quartz in it
[18:54:52] <djdelorie> need a diamond bit for those, otherwise you're not milling the slate, you're grinding the tool ;-)
[18:55:09] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: slate is OK with TC
[18:55:19] <Loetmichel> but quartz obviousliy isnt ;-)
[18:55:37] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: with the spindle running - there is no output?
[18:55:56] <Aero-Tec> yes
[18:56:05] <Aero-Tec> the hal meter still read right
[18:56:19] <andypugh> Ah, yes, YSZ would make good teeth, and is actually used for that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yttria-stabilized_zirconia
[18:56:31] <Aero-Tec> so no connection with meter
[18:57:00] <Aero-Tec> was looking at the files and the instruction to find out why
[18:57:56] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: can you post your ini file? and your post whatever hal file?
[18:58:06] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: are you at your machine?
[18:59:08] <Aero-Tec> not at the lathe
[18:59:15] <Aero-Tec> but I have the files
[18:59:30] <Aero-Tec> was I to make a change to the hal file?
[18:59:38] <Aero-Tec> I did not change it
[18:59:41] <skunkworks__> I don't think so.
[19:00:16] <skunkworks__> There is already the spindle-rpm-filtered pin in it
[19:01:19] <Aero-Tec> http://pastebin.com/jp9Jt7Ut
[19:01:22] <Aero-Tec> ini file
[19:01:31] <skunkworks__> lets see your ini and spindle_to_pyvcp.hal
[19:01:33] <skunkworks__> ah
[19:02:12] <Aero-Tec> http://pastebin.com/EVhcRuWe
[19:02:17] <Aero-Tec> xml file
[19:02:37] <Aero-Tec> net spindle-rpm-filtered => pyvcp.spindle-speed
[19:02:43] <Aero-Tec> the new hal file
[19:02:52] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: is there anything in your custom_postgui.hal file?
[19:03:00] <Aero-Tec> no
[19:03:14] <Aero-Tec> not that I put in there
[19:03:17] <Aero-Tec> I can look
[19:04:03] <skunkworks__> then put a # in front of the line POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal
[19:04:21] <Aero-Tec> ok
[19:04:29] <skunkworks__> Double check - I don't think you can have 2 postgui_halfiles called out.
[19:04:50] <skunkworks__> so it is probably only running the first one.
[19:07:29] <Aero-Tec> there is 2?
[19:07:58] <skunkworks__> [HAL]
[19:08:00] <skunkworks__> HALFILE = old-lathe.hal
[19:08:01] <skunkworks__> HALFILE = custom.hal
[19:08:03] <skunkworks__> POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal
[19:08:05] <skunkworks__> POSTGUI_HALFILE = spindle_to_pyvcp.hal
[19:08:20] <Aero-Tec> ok
[19:08:28] <Aero-Tec> now I follow
[19:08:33] <Aero-Tec> will retry
[19:13:17] <Aero-Tec> it work
[19:13:21] <Aero-Tec> its live
[19:13:27] <Aero-Tec> alive
[19:13:29] <Aero-Tec> lol
[19:13:38] <Aero-Tec> thanks a ton
[19:14:15] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: could have never of done this with out your help
[19:14:22] <skunkworks__> yay!
[19:14:36] <Aero-Tec> ear to ear smile
[19:14:50] <Aero-Tec> now if I can just get the gcode to work
[19:19:05] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: does the meter seem pretty stable?
[19:20:46] <Aero-Tec> yes
[19:20:49] <skunkworks__> good
[19:20:59] <Aero-Tec> it bounces a tad
[19:21:05] <Aero-Tec> but not to bad
[19:21:45] <Aero-Tec> the RPMs bounce about 2 to 3 RPMs
[19:22:01] <skunkworks__> oh - that is pretty good
[19:22:14] <Aero-Tec> and at only 280 RPMs you see it more
[19:22:17] <skunkworks__> you can adjust the setp lowpass.0.gain 0.01 in your hal file to make it filter more or less.
[19:22:40] <Aero-Tec> cool
[19:22:58] <Aero-Tec> I really can not thank you enough for your help
[19:23:26] <Aero-Tec> this would have been a nightmare with out your help
[19:23:29] <skunkworks__> Not a problem - I hope you can figure out your gcode issue.
[19:24:03] <Aero-Tec> taken forever and I can not have the lathe down for long. use it all the time
[19:24:33] <Aero-Tec> that will not be a problem
[19:24:41] <Aero-Tec> I can deal with Gcode
[19:24:52] <Aero-Tec> will track it down
[19:25:24] <Aero-Tec> this is so cool
[19:25:37] <Aero-Tec> next will be the mill
[19:25:43] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: can I ask why you switched?
[19:26:03] <Aero-Tec> that will not be so hard now I have a better understanding of thing
[19:26:17] <Aero-Tec> from Mach?
[19:26:21] <skunkworks__> yes
[19:26:40] <Aero-Tec> I have had mach do things
[19:26:57] <skunkworks__> ah - I have heard that.
[19:27:03] <Aero-Tec> it took off right through my part in mid production run
[19:27:21] <skunkworks__> I have never had linuxcnc do something that wasn
[19:27:25] <Aero-Tec> I had run the code like 20 time
[19:27:27] <skunkworks__> wasn't my fault.
[19:27:29] <tjb1> Sounds like my vinyl cutter with sign cut pro
[19:28:56] <Aero-Tec> in mid production run, loaded new part, hit the run botton, it was doing it right them bam, g0 move right into the part
[19:29:02] <Aero-Tec> stalled every thing
[19:29:08] <skunkworks__> yeck.
[19:29:19] <Aero-Tec> that and the lathe threading sucks
[19:30:13] <roycroft> so if i may butt in for a moment
[19:30:13] <skunkworks__> I would like to hear your thoughts when you get to threading with linuxcnc and a single index.
[19:30:14] <Aero-Tec> the lathe part of mach in general sucks, they give no time to fix it, mill is king
[19:30:28] <roycroft> someone here has suggested that i not put ball screws on my x3
[19:30:36] <roycroft> that i should keep the acme screws
[19:30:42] <roycroft> until they wear out, at least
[19:30:59] <Valen> why? (also who?)
[19:31:19] <roycroft> if i were to consider that, i'm sure i could all but eliminate any backlash, but they certainly won't be as accurate as even low quality ball screws
[19:31:25] <roycroft> i don't recall who
[19:31:39] <roycroft> and the reason i think is primarily cost/benefit
[19:31:47] <Valen> the main reason is friction
[19:31:48] <roycroft> i've not decided either way
[19:31:57] <roycroft> an x3 is pretty small
[19:32:03] <Valen> if you anti-backlash an acme (well) your going to need alot of oomph to move it
[19:32:22] <roycroft> likely i could put much bigger motors on the thing for less money than ball screws
[19:32:29] <roycroft> that's something i'll still have to work on
[19:32:59] <roycroft> the real question is: does linuxcnc have the ability for me to map out the eccentricities of my screws and automatically compensate for that?
[19:33:04] <Valen> yes
[19:33:08] <roycroft> cool
[19:33:10] <Valen> screwcomp i believe
[19:33:27] <roycroft> i'm still inclined to get some ball screws
[19:33:47] <Valen> check out linearmotionbearings2008 on ebay
[19:33:56] <Valen> he sells them cut and machined really rather cheap
[19:34:21] <roycroft> machined to my specifications?
[19:34:32] <Valen> yup
[19:34:34] <roycroft> or does he have 'standard' kits?
[19:34:37] <roycroft> excellent
[19:34:38] <Valen> that too
[19:34:56] <Valen> i think we spend ~$200-300 for our (larger) mill
[19:35:00] <Valen> spent
[19:35:02] <skunkworks__> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis_lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a
[19:36:59] <roycroft> certainly good prices
[19:37:16] <Valen> yup
[19:37:30] <tjb1> Woot is doing a woot-off today if anyone is interested
[19:37:42] <Valen> we did our own anti-backlash with a pair of ballnuts and springs
[19:38:50] <Valen> but I think the antibacklash nut is probably how we will do our next one
[19:38:54] <tjb1> Here you are roycroft - http://www.ebay.com/sch/linearmotionbearings2008/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=50&_trksid=p3692
[19:40:30] <roycroft> i'm concerned that the seller cannot ship in wooden boxes and informs customers that they have to straighten the screws when they arrive
[19:40:57] <roycroft> i thought alignment was pretty critical with ball screws
[19:41:13] <tjb1> I missed that...
[19:41:18] <tjb1> and the fact they are coming from china
[19:41:34] <tjb1> Order a month in advance of when you need it
[19:41:38] <roycroft> i was considering some american-made ball screws
[19:41:47] <Valen> they are rolled screws not ground
[19:42:02] <tjb1> Yeah estimated delivery - Jun 21 - Jul 5
[19:42:08] <roycroft> cut to length, and annealed at each end to my specifications
[19:42:10] <tjb1> Unacceptable
[19:42:30] <roycroft> that time frame would be ok with me, rigth now
[19:42:32] <Valen> i hope your sitting down when you ask thk for a price
[19:42:34] <tjb1> Then if you have a problem you have another month wait
[19:42:35] <roycroft> i have enough other stuff to do
[19:43:04] <roycroft> i'm figuring about $750 for a set of three ball screws with anti-backlash nuts
[19:43:25] <roycroft> and i'm sick at the moment, and ordered to stay off my feet
[19:43:29] <roycroft> so i'm always sitting down :)
[19:43:46] <tjb1> Im gonna have $260 in 18' of .5x.5 20 pitch 20 PA rack...
[19:43:57] <Valen> last time i looked $400 from linearmotion, was around $2000 from thk
[19:45:16] <tjb1> Any cheap gear rack suppliers? I have already looked at Moore Gear and McMaster
[19:45:44] <Valen> mcmaster has decided the rest of the planet isn't worth their time
[19:46:21] <tjb1> I don't like the fact they can't quote you on any shipping
[19:46:31] * djdelorie is wondering how hard it would be to just turn your own...
[19:46:57] <roycroft> it would be easy
[19:47:00] <roycroft> very easy
[19:47:07] <roycroft> turning them accurately is another story
[19:47:15] <djdelorie> ah, even if the screws are longer than your lathe's working length?
[19:47:26] <djdelorie> they'd be no more accurate than my lathe, at least, sure.
[19:47:26] <Valen> we have a 600 bed mill with .001mm glass scales ;->
[19:47:42] <Valen> 4th axis + grinding stone
[19:48:38] <Valen> joining them together could be challenging though lol
[19:48:42] <Valen> and hardening them
[19:50:06] <roycroft> just weld 'em up with your old stick welder and flame-harden them with a torch :)
[19:50:19] <Valen> QED!!
[19:50:34] <roycroft> a little grinding to get the welding slag off, and bob's your uncle!
[19:50:39] <djdelorie> in theory, you can turn screws longer than your lathe as long as they fit through your headstock. You just have to CAREFULLY turn each section at a time
[19:51:29] <djdelorie> assuming you have both a steady and follow rest, and enough experience to pull it off... ;-)
[19:51:48] <Valen> you know
[19:52:17] <Valen> in theory after you made the first say 10 CM you could just have a little jig with a grinding wheel on it and a ballnut
[19:52:32] <djdelorie> self-hosting :-)
[19:52:37] <Valen> wind the nut on, then use the nut to grind the thread
[19:52:45] <Valen> accuracy may be somewhat variable though
[19:54:17] <Valen> if you wanted cheap screws http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/51518718/Ball_Screw.html
[19:54:24] <Valen> shipping could be expensive though
[19:55:05] <roycroft> here's the thing
[19:55:22] <roycroft> the mill i'm converting only weighs about 275kg
[19:55:46] <roycroft> there's really not enough mass to hold really tight tolerances in the first place
[19:56:31] <roycroft> which may be another reason to just stick with the acme screws for now
[19:58:25] <tjb1> Anyone have final input on this table design? - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/154609-4x8_-_plasma_router.html
[20:01:29] <Valen> "Would like Mach3" instafail ;-P
[20:01:38] <tjb1> :)
[20:01:46] <tjb1> Mach3 is for dummies
[20:01:51] <tjb1> < dummy.
[20:02:31] <roycroft> i don't know about mach3 itself
[20:02:36] <roycroft> but it only runs on windows
[20:02:48] <Valen> yeah, diagonals are needed
[20:02:51] <roycroft> which would make it exceedingly difficult to deal with on a regular basis
[20:03:22] <tjb1> Diagonals where?
[20:03:27] <Valen> everywhere
[20:03:35] <tjb1> I have Lion, Ubuntu, XP, and Windows 7
[20:03:39] <Valen> imagine all the joints are hinges
[20:03:44] <Valen> now make it rigid
[20:03:47] <tjb1> Welded
[20:03:49] <roycroft> i still don't know all that much about linuxcnc, but i'm quite impressed with how fleshed-out it is
[20:03:56] <Valen> so?
[20:04:32] <roycroft> it's not like a lot of opensource software that's skeletal and barely works
[20:04:38] <tjb1> Just little 45*?
[20:04:42] <tjb1> at every corner
[20:04:59] <roycroft> and it seems that every time i ask if linuxcnc can do something the answer is "yes"
[20:05:09] <Valen> the limiting factor on this kind of thing is acceleration
[20:05:34] <Valen> so you want to be pulling alot of Gs accelerating your head around the place
[20:06:00] <Valen> so imagine a series of rapids going along the short axis of your router
[20:06:07] <Valen> the whole thing will shake around
[20:06:08] <roycroft> yes, triangles are necessary in every plane
[20:06:25] <tjb1> Will do, any other suggestions?
[20:06:41] <Valen> not a gusset, an actual brace
[20:07:25] <tjb1> A piece of the 2x2 with an actual 45 cut on it?
[20:07:26] <roycroft> i use blue for my machine shop equipment/fixtures, and green for my welding/grinding/cutting shop fixtures :P
[20:07:28] <ReadError> ive never used mach
[20:07:31] <ReadError> <3 linuxcnc
[20:07:52] <Valen> I'd put a pair of carrages for the rails and space them 200+ mm apart to help stop twisting
[20:08:02] * ReadError is a cnc hipster
[20:08:11] <Valen> no see where you have a square, turn it into 2 triangles
[20:08:20] * roycroft pours a can of pbr on readerror's head
[20:08:35] <ReadError> im actually drinking sam adams white ipa right now
[20:08:39] <Valen> put a piece of steel from one corner into the diagonally opposite corner
[20:08:39] <ReadError> i feel so ashamed
[20:08:40] <tjb1> Carriages for the rails?
[20:08:44] <Valen> yes
[20:08:52] <roycroft> yeah, that's pretty hoity-toity stuff
[20:08:59] <tjb1> Can you explain that
[20:09:04] <ReadError> roycroft: im gonna hit up the keg of 2hearted after
[20:09:06] <Valen> for a router I'd also beef up the gantry
[20:09:09] <roycroft> next thing you'll be making your own gourmet beer
[20:09:11] <ReadError> to balanace it out
[20:09:20] <ReadError> my 2heart clone is straight FIRE
[20:09:52] <roycroft> just grab a warm can of schlitz malt liquor if you want to balance things out
[20:10:02] <ReadError> uhmmm yea
[20:10:05] <ReadError> i have standards
[20:10:10] <Valen> http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/sia/32.2/images/guise_fig16b.jpg is what your table should look like tjb1
[20:10:15] <ReadError> I keep about 60 different beers on hand
[20:10:28] * Valen drinks XXXX
[20:10:30] <tjb1> Im not getting about the carriages
[20:10:40] <ReadError> i got this 2009 oldstock ale roycroft
[20:10:43] <ReadError> i may age it longer
[20:10:55] <Valen> slide perhaps a better word?
[20:12:01] <tjb1> supports for the CRS flat stock?
[20:12:03] <ReadError> hey roycroft
[20:12:11] <ReadError> if i got like a pallet of bigfoot
[20:12:17] <ReadError> and sat on it for 5 years
[20:12:24] <ReadError> would it be worth something?
[20:12:26] <Valen> imagine putting a bar a meter long sticking up in place of the tool doing the cutting
[20:12:33] <Valen> now grab hold of that at the top and pull
[20:12:44] <Valen> try to twist the gantry and slides into a pretzel
[20:12:49] <Valen> now stop that from happening
[20:13:27] <alex4nder-> ReadError: yoh
[20:14:10] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you around?
[20:14:30] <Tom_itx> i think gracie called him
[20:14:39] <roycroft> okeefe's extra old stock?
[20:14:45] <tjb1> Sorry Valen
[20:14:49] <tjb1> Im dumb...
[20:16:47] <Valen> ok looking at the first picture in that post
[20:17:03] <Valen> you have black things that i presume are some kind of slide?
[20:17:20] <tjb1> Yes
[20:17:56] <Valen> now imagine putting another set on 200mm further up the rail and putting the gantry in between those
[20:18:17] <tjb1> Of the black carriages?
[20:18:22] <Valen> yes
[20:18:40] <tjb1> Ill lose 16 inches of travel then
[20:18:44] <Valen> what have you done to the gantries ability to resist torque from the head
[20:19:07] <tjb1> Those carriages are 8 inches long
[20:19:59] <Valen> I'm just saying what I would do
[20:20:10] <Valen> its relavent to me because we are making a half sheet router
[20:20:33] <Valen> we are using a set of 4x 1 inch carbon fiber tubes for the gantry
[20:20:35] <tjb1> This is more of a plasma cutter with maybe some routing
[20:20:49] <Valen> they are *very* different tasks
[20:20:51] <tjb1> And I have a budget of about $2400
[20:20:53] <Valen> plasma has no load
[20:21:09] <tjb1> I know, thats why the table doesn't look like a junk torch mate :)
[20:21:32] <Valen> that budget includes buying the plasma?
[20:21:47] <tjb1> no
[20:22:03] <Valen> what you have there looks like it'd cost less than $500
[20:22:24] <Valen> though the "water table" i think you call it could be spendy
[20:22:25] <tjb1> The steel alone is 500...
[20:22:37] <tjb1> extrusions are another 400
[20:22:53] <Valen> i think you might be getting ripped there
[20:23:06] <Valen> also whats the point of the extrusion sitting on the steel?
[20:23:08] <tjb1> The table is 113" long
[20:23:33] <Valen> what size is the steel tube?
[20:23:38] <tjb1> If you have a better supplier of steel I would love to know
[20:23:41] <tjb1> 2x2x1/8
[20:24:04] <tjb1> .19 an inch
[20:24:07] <roycroft> i use coyote steel here in eugene
[20:24:07] <Valen> i wouldn't use 3mm wall tube
[20:24:22] <roycroft> probably they wouldn't work out for you though
[20:24:37] <Valen> a 6M length of 2" box is ~$30 as i recall?
[20:24:58] <roycroft> sure
[20:25:01] <roycroft> a year or so ago
[20:25:12] <roycroft> more like $45 now
[20:25:16] <tjb1> the 113" piece is $23
[20:25:28] <tjb1> Well a 10 ft piece is $23
[20:25:32] <Valen> are you getting somebody else to cut it all?
[20:25:45] <tjb1> They are cutting it all to rough length
[20:25:47] <roycroft> cuts are damn expensive
[20:25:52] <Valen> thats why its expensive
[20:25:53] <tjb1> $55 cut charge on all the steel
[20:26:21] <roycroft> i wish i could handle 20' sticks, but i can't
[20:26:28] <roycroft> so i have to pay a litle more for 10' lengths
[20:26:28] <Valen> i think your getting taken for a bit of a ride
[20:26:48] <tjb1> Not that I know of
[20:27:05] <tjb1> They are .06 cheaper per inch than other place and way cheaper than the online supplier
[20:27:08] <Valen> all the stuff in that water table could be expensive lots of steel there
[20:27:41] <Valen> steel is an old school material with old school suppliers
[20:27:53] <tjb1> Only thing I'm not touching are the 113" square tubing, all the rest will be cut ~1/8" long and I will square it all to length at school
[20:28:25] <Valen> put some grubby clothes on and rock up there asking for a bunch of steel whilst talking crap with the storeperson will probably get you 20% off lol
[20:28:34] <Valen> ever see gran torino?
[20:28:38] <tjb1> no
[20:28:54] <tjb1> The problem I have is this damn extrusion is sooo expensive
[20:29:03] <tjb1> Plus $150 shipping
[20:29:10] <Valen> ahh, it had a good part on being a "manly man" and talking to people like that
[20:29:16] <Valen> why are you using it?>
[20:29:26] <Valen> your slides seem to be running on a steel sheet anyway
[20:29:28] <tjb1> For attaching the rack and crs to
[20:29:45] <Valen> attach them to the steel
[20:29:49] <tjb1> I know I can attach that to the steel...
[20:30:01] <tjb1> I don't want to drill all the holes in the square tubing
[20:30:06] <Valen> why not?
[20:30:19] <tjb1> They then have to match the crs perfect
[20:30:20] <Valen> take you half an hour or so
[20:30:28] <Valen> so match drill them
[20:30:55] <Valen> where are you getting this "CRS" stuff from anyway?
[20:30:57] <tjb1> Then after welding it all together...
[20:31:01] <tjb1> I can't really tweak it
[20:31:08] <tjb1> the same steel supplier
[20:31:11] <Valen> so do it last
[20:31:14] <tjb1> crs=cold rolled steel
[20:31:29] <Valen> weld your table up
[20:31:35] <Valen> sit one rail on
[20:31:43] <Valen> clamp it down get it straight
[20:31:54] <Valen> put the gantry on
[20:32:00] <Valen> get the other rail straight
[20:32:04] <Valen> (well parallel)
[20:32:13] <Valen> then just drill through them with a hand drill
[20:32:36] <Valen> its only 44 holes in total
[20:32:45] <tjb1> Wit this way, I can adjust it over the length up and down also
[20:33:00] <Valen> called shims
[20:33:39] <Valen> as far as i can tell your spending $500 to avoid drilling 44 holes
[20:33:55] <tjb1> Also all the holes for the rack
[20:34:35] <tjb1> Are you also suggesting I don't use extrusion for the y and z axis?
[20:34:50] <Valen> yeah
[20:35:05] <Valen> the only advantage to it i see is it'll be lighter on the moving axis
[20:35:44] <tjb1> A lot easier to attach it to everything :)
[20:36:05] <Valen> I don't see that really being the case
[20:36:35] <Valen> you asked for input
[20:36:39] <Valen> thats my input
[20:36:44] <tjb1> I don't have to drill any holes for the rack or for mounting to the carriages
[20:36:54] <Valen> its drilling a hole
[20:37:02] <Valen> decent hand drill will do that in about 15 seconds
[20:37:14] <Valen> (not battery drill, 2000W mains drill)
[20:37:43] <tjb1> and then you have no adjustment
[20:37:48] <tjb1> besides drilling the hole bigger
[20:38:04] <Valen> you have the same adjustment that the extrusion gives you
[20:39:58] <Valen> that or just design it better ;-P
[20:40:13] <tjb1> I have infinite linear adjustment :)
[20:40:28] <tjb1> well 73" of adjustment
[20:40:35] <tjb1> you just can't do that with a hole
[20:40:41] <Valen> sure you can
[20:40:49] <Valen> just drill a new hole
[20:40:54] <Valen> but why would you even want to do that
[20:40:58] <Valen> you put the rail on
[20:41:02] <Valen> straighten it
[20:41:05] <tjb1> So when I really screw the hole up
[20:41:06] <Valen> then do the bolt up
[20:41:27] <Valen> you have oversized holes in the rail
[20:44:26] <tjb1> Ill see :)
[20:44:48] <alex4nder-> anyone done a new factory 80/20 order?
[20:45:04] <tjb1> Nope, only got a quote from them
[20:45:59] <alex4nder-> I think I'm going to have them kit out my mill table
[20:47:01] <tjb1> Can you buy direct through 80/20 or do you have to go through a distributor?
[20:47:14] <tjb1> Valen, share your steel distributor with me
[20:47:15] <alex4nder-> you go through their distributor
[20:47:26] <alex4nder-> distributor(s)
[20:47:33] <Valen> i'm in australia
[20:47:42] <tjb1> Well there is the problem...
[20:47:49] <tjb1> Im in the US where everything is over priced
[20:48:02] <Valen> uhh everything is overpriced here
[20:48:09] <alex4nder-> tjb1: you'll say that until you try to buy a car in Australia
[20:48:10] <Valen> visit dell .com vs dell.com.au
[20:48:13] <tjb1> Apparently not your steel :)
[20:48:15] <alex4nder-> and then you'll wish you lived in the US
[20:48:27] <Valen> the dollar is the same 1:1 but the same dell is 30-40% more expensive here
[20:48:37] <tjb1> Apple ;)
[20:48:45] <tjb1> Expensive no matter where you live
[20:48:49] <Valen> worse
[20:49:11] <tjb1> alex4nder-: have you noticed any different prices between distributors?
[20:50:01] <alex4nder-> tjb1: I've never bought anything before.. I'm just looking at the pricing on ebay and using that as my comparison
[20:50:23] <tjb1> My experience is the distributor is quite a bit cheaper than ebay and amazon prices
[20:50:41] <alex4nder-> ah, interesting.
[20:50:43] <tjb1> But I think there are like 4 distributors in my state so if one is cheaper...
[20:50:52] <alex4nder-> I'll know soon enough.
[20:51:41] <tjb1> 1530 x 18" is 14.23
[20:51:51] <tjb1> 3030 x 73" is 93.08
[20:52:00] <tjb1> 3030 x 113" is 144.08
[20:52:04] <alex4nder-> that 1530 price is what I saw on ebay
[20:52:14] <alex4nder-> $0.85/in
[20:52:23] <Valen> turning up in store or sounding like you are in the trade will get you a decent discount as a rule
[20:52:47] <tjb1> Well all the distributors are at least 3 hours away
[20:53:06] <alex4nder-> tjb1: aren't most of these guys drop-shipping from the factory anyway?
[20:53:06] <Valen> speak to them on the phone, or send a fax
[20:53:11] <Valen> i know an actual fax
[20:53:25] <Valen> but its how they work most of the time
[20:53:27] <tjb1> alex4nder-: Yes, I was hoping to avoid the shipping by picking it up...
[20:53:39] <Valen> the average age of the people in the store is probably 50
[20:53:48] <alex4nder-> tjb1: I don't even have a distributor in my area code.
[20:54:16] <tjb1> Where do you live?
[20:54:41] <tjb1> Australia?
[20:54:44] <alex4nder-> central california
[20:55:08] <tjb1> Well there are only like 4-5 distributors in pennsylvania
[20:55:18] <tjb1> 3 are near philly
[20:55:29] <tjb1> either 1 or 2 around pitt
[20:56:01] <tjb1> So if they are all drop shipping, I see no advantage of using the closer one over the others
[20:57:03] <alex4nder-> this table is going to be 40x26x32 outside dimensions
[20:57:17] <alex4nder-> and I'm going to have them ship it broken down
[20:57:33] <tjb1> should be pretty cheap
[20:57:39] <alex4nder-> yah, I think so
[20:57:40] <tjb1> mine is so expensive because it requires freight
[20:57:46] <alex4nder-> how big is it?
[20:57:49] <tjb1> 113" long
[20:57:59] <alex4nder-> ah jeez
[20:58:02] <alex4nder-> what is it?
[20:58:07] <tjb1> plasma table
[20:58:11] <alex4nder-> ah
[20:58:17] <tjb1> after all valen talk I think I'm gonna drop the router use :)
[20:58:25] <tjb1> maybe throw a dremel on there
[20:58:52] <alex4nder-> ok, I'm going to leave the coffee shop
[20:58:53] <alex4nder-> late
[20:58:59] <tjb1> Its my senior project for college so I don't have much time
[20:59:05] <tjb1> later
[21:01:13] <tjb1> Valen = Van Halen?
[21:03:02] <tjb1> Guess my table could do a router with some improvements
[21:03:06] <tjb1> in the future...
[21:03:32] <tjb1> Right now its just an over engineered plasma table
[21:06:06] <roycroft> i need a plasma table
[21:06:12] <roycroft> but first, i need room for a plasma table
[21:06:19] <roycroft> i had been following your thread on cnczone
[21:06:27] <tjb1> Its really slow, sorry
[21:06:36] <tjb1> I was required to design it last semester :)
[21:07:08] <roycroft> well, my gf and i are figuring out how to finance a new shop for me
[21:07:16] <tjb1> You reading the one in the plasma section or router section?
[21:07:28] <roycroft> once we get that sorted out, and the shop built, i'll definitely be looking to build a plasma table
[21:07:47] <roycroft> i just use the plasma cutter by hand off the edge of my welding table
[21:08:00] <roycroft> and i suck at plasma cutting, even though it's almost impossible to suck at plasma cutting
[21:08:08] <tjb1> Ha yeah
[21:08:17] <tjb1> What kind do you have?
[21:08:30] <roycroft> everlast
[21:08:38] <roycroft> 60a
[21:08:44] <roycroft> or 50a
[21:08:45] <roycroft> i forget
[21:08:52] <tjb1> We had a hobart air force
[21:09:02] <tjb1> It sucked really bad so we returned it and got the hypertherm
[21:09:22] <roycroft> i blame the operator for the poor cutting mine does
[21:09:51] <tjb1> The hypertherm was only 200 more than the hobart and that hobart would BARELY cut 3/8
[21:10:07] <tjb1> plus it had no way to interface with a cnc
[21:10:15] <roycroft> but i'll also say, in that operator's defense, that i've cut all of about 30 running feet of metal with it
[21:10:24] <roycroft> perhaps a little experience would help :)
[21:10:27] <tjb1> Don't use it around a magnet
[21:10:33] <tjb1> I tried to use a round magnet as a template
[21:10:57] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerPlasma-50-317-pd.html
[21:11:00] <roycroft> that's what i got
[21:11:31] <roycroft> and this
[21:11:33] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerTig--250EX-381-pd.html
[21:11:52] <tjb1> It wrecked the electrode and nozzle
[21:11:55] <roycroft> with this
[21:11:57] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerCool-W300-392-pd.html
[21:12:10] <roycroft> last fall's toy windfall :)
[21:12:36] <tjb1> thats really cheap for a 50amp
[21:12:43] <roycroft> i can imagine that a magnet would turn the plasma stream pretty sideways
[21:12:54] <roycroft> and do exactly what you said
[21:13:04] <roycroft> yeah, their stuff is priced really well
[21:13:33] <roycroft> the plasma cutter was pretty much an afterthought
[21:13:40] <roycroft> the tig welder is what i really needed
[21:13:47] <tjb1> Thats stupid
[21:13:59] <tjb1> That tig comes with a water cooled torch but not the water cooler...
[21:14:02] <roycroft> but i was "what the heck - it's pretty cheap, and it would be cool"
[21:14:21] <roycroft> well here's the real issue there
[21:14:27] <roycroft> yes, it comes with a water cooled torch
[21:14:48] <tjb1> Cant use it without the cooler
[21:14:51] <roycroft> but because it doesn't come with the cooler, they sell a really heavy duty water cooled torch, that can also be used without water up to 200a
[21:14:56] <roycroft> that's nice
[21:15:06] <roycroft> except now you have this big, heavy, unwieldy torch
[21:15:17] <roycroft> my plan was, and still is, to get a lighter torch to use for almost everything
[21:15:20] <tjb1> We just got this - http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K2535-1(LincolnElectric)
[21:15:27] <roycroft> and save the bundled torch for emergencies
[21:16:19] <roycroft> i was looking at blue and red
[21:16:33] <tjb1> and this is the plasma - http://www.hypertherm.com/en/Products/Handheld_cutting/Systems/powermax45.jsp
[21:16:41] <roycroft> but their stuff is made in china these days too
[21:16:49] <roycroft> and the local dealers seeth with attitude
[21:16:57] <roycroft> i'm not going to pay extra for that attitude
[21:17:18] <tjb1> we only paid 2400 for the ready pak
[21:18:08] <tjb1> and we have a lincoln pro mig 175
[21:18:32] <roycroft> i have a lincoln 130 for mig
[21:18:35] <tjb1> which is the older version of the current 180
[21:18:52] * roycroft is not much of a weldor, but is slowly building up that set of skills
[21:18:55] <tjb1> That tig is driving me nuts trying to use it
[21:19:05] <tjb1> The torch gets sooo hot at 130 amps
[21:19:08] <roycroft> i don't have much time on mine yet
[21:19:17] <roycroft> i got mine in the fall
[21:19:24] <tjb1> ours was delivered friday
[21:19:43] <roycroft> my welding shop is about 10m away from my garage
[21:19:58] <tjb1> ours is just hobby use right now
[21:20:05] <tjb1> well we make a lot of stuff for ourselves
[21:20:15] <roycroft> in the winter that's a 10m mud puddle
[21:20:22] <roycroft> and the welding shop is not powered
[21:20:37] <roycroft> i have a 6ga extension cord i have to take out there to run my welding gear
[21:20:43] <roycroft> which, as you can imagine, is very heavy
[21:21:03] <tjb1> yeah that would suck
[21:21:13] <tjb1> this is the only thing we sell - http://www.ebay.com/itm/260914898411?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1413
[21:21:14] <roycroft> so after a few hours of playing with the tig welder, and a couple minutes (literally) with the plasma cutter, i just packed them up for the winter
[21:21:26] <roycroft> my first spring project was to put in a gravel pathway
[21:21:52] <tjb1> I'm about to take that off ebay
[21:21:54] <roycroft> but then we had a late winter snow storm that took down seven trees in my yard, and i spent several weekends cutting wood and cleaning that up
[21:22:04] <roycroft> just last week i finished the gravel pathway
[21:22:11] <roycroft> and now i can start using the shop
[21:22:23] <roycroft> except i'm laid up for a few days due to cellulitis
[21:22:38] <tjb1> We have around 40 tons of gravel in our driveway
[21:22:47] <tjb1> nothing but mud when it rains a lot or in the winter...
[21:24:17] <roycroft> well, when we build my new shop i'll have machining, sheet metal, mechanic, woodworking, and grinding/welding all in the same building
[21:24:24] <jdhNC> I want to square a piece of 1" thick Al. Is there a ngcgui routine or something simple that will generate gcode for side milling back and forth with incremental moves?
[21:24:27] <roycroft> wiht at least 250a of power
[21:24:43] <roycroft> i'm going to try to get 3-phase brought in, if it's available here
[21:25:11] <tjb1> we also have one of these which makes it nice - http://www.rockanddirt.com/thumbnail?2000-JOHN-DEERE-260-skid-steer-loaders-wheel&db=equipdb&height=280&width=385&border=0&fname=12838/36284023_a.jpg
[21:25:17] <roycroft> the house was built in the early '50s, and does not have any grounded outlets
[21:25:20] <roycroft> and only 100a
[21:25:38] <roycroft> to upgrade the panel and the service we'd need to rewire the whole house
[21:25:47] <roycroft> so i'm going to try to get a second meter drop directly to the new shop
[21:26:24] <roycroft> yeah, that's a nice loader
[21:26:44] <roycroft> how much can it handle?
[21:27:30] <tjb1> 5k before it tips
[21:27:38] <roycroft> ok, so the bucket is a yard
[21:27:47] <roycroft> i wasn't sure, but i thought that looked like a yard bucket
[21:27:52] <tjb1> 7500 breakout
[21:28:59] <roycroft> and you can lift a bridgeport with a 12" rotary vice, a couple 6" kurt vices, and an overweight operator without breaking a sweat
[21:29:16] <tjb1> Yeah its pretty nice
[21:30:06] <tjb1> traded a 39' dump trailer for it
[21:44:40] <ReadError> <roycroft> and you can lift a bridgeport with a 12" rotary vice, a couple 6" kurt vices, and an overweight operator without breaking a sweat
[21:44:42] <ReadError> how
[21:45:14] <jdhNC> the operator grabs the vise and lifts really hard
[21:49:12] <roycroft> with this:
[21:49:34] <roycroft> http://www.rockanddirt.com/thumbnail?2000-JOHN-DEERE-260-skid-steer-loaders-wheel&db=equipdb&height=280&width=385&border=0&fname=12838/36284023_a.jpg
[23:02:36] <Connor_CNC> Hey guys, question about charge pump, soft estop and external estop
[23:03:07] <Connor_CNC> On my setup. I had just charge pump setup.
[23:03:52] <Connor_CNC> when you hit the F1 or ESTOP button in linuxcnc it would kill the pump as expected. I've now added a external E-Stop switch. now, I can't get the charge pump to run. I'm not sure what I've done.
[23:06:32] <jdhNC> you have estop-in set correctly?
[23:07:08] <Connor_CNC> I dunno now. I got ran stepconf gen on another config and pulled the lines out.
[23:07:31] <Connor_CNC> net estop-ext => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[23:07:35] <Connor_CNC> is what I have now.
[23:07:48] <Connor_CNC> I had net estop-out => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[23:07:49] <Connor_CNC> before
[23:08:09] <jdhNC> net estop-ext <= parport.0.pin-15-in
[23:08:24] <Connor_CNC> yup, got that.
[23:08:56] <jdhNC> net estop-ext => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[23:08:57] <Connor_CNC> net estop-out charge-pump.enable iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[23:08:57] <Connor_CNC> net charge-pump <= charge-pump.out
[23:09:11] <jdhNC> that's all mine... I don't have a charge pump on there. Just the e-stop
[23:09:34] <Connor_CNC> yea. That's the thing, I need the charge pump to kick in.. when enabled.
[23:10:21] <Connor_CNC> if the CP doesn't kick in.. then the relay is in a NO state and the only way I can keep it "UP" is to continue to hold the push-to-start button. :)
[23:10:50] <jdhNC> what sets charge-pump.out?
[23:11:31] <Connor_CNC> It's a hal component I think.
[23:11:57] <jdhNC> yeah, just wondering what causes it to come on.
[23:12:49] <jdhNC> how much did you increment your boring diam/radius each step for the Y spacer block?
[23:13:11] <jdhNC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?About_Charge_Pumps
[23:13:34] <Connor_CNC> Good grief. I don't remember.. not much.
[23:13:39] <jdhNC> net emcOn motion.motion-enabled => charge-pump.enable
[23:14:07] <jdhNC> this boring head looks huge for this mill.
[23:14:19] <Connor_CNC> You get the 3" like mine ?\
[23:14:42] <jdhNC> I don't recall, it looks 3"ish
[23:15:05] <jdhNC> I got a 2.5" indexable face mill, it is beautiful on aluminum
[23:16:43] <Connor_CNC> how much and were from ?
[23:16:54] <jdhNC> ebay, $35ish?
[23:17:09] <jdhNC> 4 t32 inserts
[23:18:36] <jdhNC> $43, they seem to be more now.
[23:18:44] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190564217487
[23:23:17] <Connor_CNC> okay, charge pump working correctly.. now, I just need to somehow enable software based E-stop
[23:23:42] <jdhNC> net estop-out => parport.0.pin-01-out
[23:24:07] <jdhNC> net estop-out <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[23:24:17] <Connor_CNC> I don't need to send it to a output pin.
[23:25:14] <jdhNC> that's a light on mine. I was planning on a relay, but never did.
[23:27:01] <Connor_CNC> it's like I need a AND
[23:27:20] <jdhNC> for out, or in?
[23:27:39] <Connor_CNC> well. I dunno.
[23:27:50] <Connor_CNC> what PIN is the software button ?
[23:28:32] <Connor_CNC> that pin and the estop-ext both need to be active before CP will go active.
[23:29:19] <jdhNC> when I hooked up my external e-stop, I never had to hit the software one again
[23:29:37] <Connor_CNC> yea. I want both.
[23:29:59] <Connor_CNC> because keyboard not right at estop.
[23:31:09] <jdhNC> forgetting to home has been a pain
[23:31:34] <jdhNC> I wonder if you an put a single prox switch in the middle for X limits/home
[23:35:08] <roycroft> you need a voice-activated e-stop
[23:36:01] <jdhNC> blood activated? screaming?
[23:36:37] <roycroft> so when you yell "OH SH*T!" it will know what to do
[23:37:24] <jdhNC> http://dx.com/p/voice-sound-sensor-module-blue-black-121523
[23:37:33] <jdhNC> I have one of those coming
[23:40:04] <roycroft> a blood-activated one would be interesting too
[23:43:53] <Connor_CNC> OKay. I think I got it.. kinda strange... I have to push my hardware based push-to-start and while pushing that, click the power button.
[23:44:13] <Connor_CNC> Would that be considered a good thing ?
[23:44:20] <jdhNC> not for me.
[23:44:24] <jdhNC> why bother with the hw button then
[23:44:58] <Connor_CNC> HW button needed latch the charge-pump relay. because I disable the breakout board.
[23:45:25] <Connor_CNC> without the BOB, the CP can't get the charge-pump signal.
[23:45:47] <Connor_CNC> and without the signal, the relay won't flip, and thus, the the BOB won't be enabled. :)
[23:45:49] <roycroft> having to operate two buttons simultaneously is a pain
[23:46:04] <roycroft> this isn't a nuclear missile launch control system
[23:46:13] <roycroft> pressing two in the proper sequence i can see
[23:46:19] <roycroft> but simultaneously, not
[23:48:16] <jdhNC> run the charge pump relay through the estop chain instead?
[23:49:48] <Connor_CNC> that's what I'm trying to figure out how to do.
[23:50:11] <jdhNC> I meant through a physical contact
[23:50:17] <Connor_CNC> already is
[23:51:38] <jdhNC> run the chargepump pwm output via a relay contact?
[23:52:27] <Connor_CNC> Machine locked up because of a config..
[23:54:13] <jdhNC> wow, it's late... good luck.