#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-19

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[02:07:54] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:19:43] <fragalot> Aah there's nothing like disassembling your cnc machine for a good & proper maintenance cycle and finding soot all over the spindle mount
[02:51:50] <archivist> fragalot, reminds me of the cracking sound from my Z a couple of years ago...the dust was brown, I had fretting corrosion in the leadscrew coupling, oiled to keep it at bay for a day or two till I replaced with a better coupling
[02:55:59] <fragalot> :/
[03:15:14] <fragalot> ugh
[03:15:21] <fragalot> using loctite 435 out of poverty as threadlock
[03:15:27] <fragalot> even though it's more expensive ><
[03:19:47] <fragalot> I'm so *never* going to be able to disassemble this ever again, lol
[03:22:45] <archivist> heat is supposed to break threadlock, but I hate the stuff
[03:23:26] <fragalot> archivist: 435 is superglue on steroids
[03:23:40] <fragalot> sets in 20 minutes, and does. not. let. go.
[03:23:49] <fragalot> i've tested it on aluminium & the aluminium gave way instead of the glue
[03:24:03] <fragalot> (granted, it wasn't the best quality alu :P)
[03:41:45] <Tom_itx> is that the red stuff?
[03:41:49] <Tom_itx> or blue
[03:41:53] <Tom_itx> blue lets go easier
[03:51:42] <fragalot> Tom_itx: it's clear
[03:51:55] <fragalot> it's not meant for threadlock use, but for parts assembly as a structural adhesive
[03:52:32] <Tom_itx> ahh
[03:53:26] <Tom_itx> al isn't a good one to be threadlocking anyway
[03:53:43] <alex4nder> hey
[03:53:53] <Tom_itx> straw
[03:54:18] <fragalot> Tom_itx: yeah
[04:09:21] <fragalot> hmph
[04:09:25] <fragalot> there's some play in my Z bearings
[04:11:39] <fragalot> .34mm
[04:11:40] <fragalot> >.<
[04:17:20] <Valen> less that awesome
[04:17:37] <fragalot> I'm vaguely wondering if that's play on the drive nut or on the bearing now
[04:19:29] <fragalot> bearings..
[04:27:04] <fragalot> is there a way to make it so if it hits a limit switch (configured minimum limit + home), that I can still move it without having to disconnect the switch?
[04:27:11] <fragalot> well, short it in this case
[04:28:33] <Valen> there is
[04:28:33] <fragalot> oh. i've got the Z configured as min. too while it should me max
[04:28:34] <fragalot> >.>
[04:28:36] <fragalot> be*
[04:28:42] <fragalot> that explains that then :D
[04:28:43] <Valen> but i forget what it is
[04:28:54] <fragalot> Valen: there's an override limits button that I just found in EMC2
[04:28:55] <Valen> i believe it will let you move off the limit
[04:29:17] <Valen> ie if you move into the limit it will let you move the other way until the limit is released
[04:29:45] <fragalot> yeah, i just had it configured wrong ^_^
[04:30:04] <fragalot> but no - on a limit switch it disables the machine until you hit the "override limits" button
[04:30:20] <fragalot> in which case, if configured correctly (this was my problem), it will let you move off
[04:32:10] <fragalot> kinda wonder if I could make homing faster.. like move fairly quickly towards home switch, back off & go slow
[04:32:32] <fragalot> meh i'll just move it close manually
[04:34:50] <fragalot> ... these switches seem to.. suck. lol
[04:51:50] <fragalot> hm. my X and Y axis appear to try to home in the wrong direction :/
[04:52:26] <fragalot> the switch is at the far left of the table, Home location: 0 Table travel: 0 - 200.0 home switch location 0 and a search velocity of 10
[04:52:41] <fragalot> are those correct? or can I easilly change something to fix this
[04:53:58] <fragalot> fixed it by entering a negative velocity
[04:54:27] <fragalot> fuck.
[04:54:56] <fragalot> Y went on & decided to carry on past the limit & that's just ripped the switch mount out, lol
[05:47:35] <Loetmichel> fragalot: the chinese aurcooled
[05:47:40] <Loetmichel> definetly
[05:55:13] <jthornton> what the heck does w.r.t. mean?
[06:10:38] <CareBear\> with regard to
[06:16:19] <jthornton> thanks
[06:18:47] <archivist> jthornton, how is the redneck power station going?
[06:21:50] <jthornton> waiting on a throttle man to show up
[06:23:49] <jthornton> seems my part time business partner has disappeared no doubt on some boy scout adventure
[06:25:14] <Jymmm> redneck power station? The 30kw generator?
[06:25:28] <jthornton> yea
[06:25:34] <Jymmm> or the tractor power takeoff?
[06:25:41] <jthornton> no
[06:26:01] <archivist> the assemblage
[06:26:13] <Jymmm> would the tractor be the hillbilly power station?
[06:26:21] <jthornton> it's a 6 cyl power unit
[06:26:38] <jthornton> tractor pto only turns 540 rpm which is too slow
[06:26:52] <Jymmm> gearbox?
[06:26:59] <archivist> the trailer being a fundamental part of the power station
[06:27:01] <jthornton> they make them yes
[06:29:57] <Loetmichel> jthornton: i've seen that in maroc.
[06:30:16] <jthornton> a cobbled up power station?
[06:30:23] <Loetmichel> renterd two 1MW diesel gensets locally.
[06:31:05] <jthornton> this is not even a genset lol
[06:31:38] <archivist> it is true redneck construction
[06:31:45] <Loetmichel> what arrived on the location: a shops diesel without exhaust welded to 2 railroad tracks and a genny coupled on int, transported on a semi
[06:32:38] <jthornton> that sounds close to what I have but straps instead of welding and trailer instead of tracks
[06:32:42] <Jymmm> I'm working on heat sealing 1/2" plastic tubing; 1) Is there something other than a pneumatic cylinder or electric solenoid that I could use to "pinch" the tubing? 2) I have lots of NiChrome wire to work with, but I can't get enough heat out to produce a 1/16" or 1/8" seal in the tubing, is there some material that will dissipate/distribute the heat out quickly enough?
[06:33:48] <jthornton> gold seems to be the best conductor
[06:33:49] <archivist> block of aluminium with a non stick cover
[06:34:00] <Loetmichel> ... and no power distribution, just 3(4) 30mm screw bolts on the back of the generator
[06:34:03] <Loetmichel> :)
[06:34:12] <Loetmichel> jthornton: wron
[06:34:19] <Loetmichel> silfer is the best conductor
[06:34:23] <Loetmichel> silver
[06:34:24] <jthornton> this one has some wires hanging out of an old bleach bottle
[06:34:27] <Jymmm> jthornton: Got any to spare?
[06:34:36] <jthornton> not even a tooth
[06:35:50] <archivist> Jymmm, you can get heaters to embed in the aluminium block
[06:36:17] <archivist> shape the edge for the seal shape you wand
[06:36:21] <archivist> want
[06:36:43] <Jymmm> archivist: Is there anything a bit better than aluminum as I've tried an 400W impulse sealer 8x in a row for 6s each and it barely did anything. I do have some teflon fabric for the insulator
[06:37:20] <jthornton> what is an impulse sealer
[06:37:34] <Jymmm> jthornton: hang on
[06:38:01] <Jymmm> jthornton: http://www.thesage.com/images/prod/9712_whole.jpg
[06:38:12] <archivist> Jymmm, you bring the plate to temp and keep it there for a days production
[06:38:16] <jthornton> the plastic factories use what archivist said to bond gas tanks together
[06:38:30] <archivist> and window frames
[06:38:51] <archivist> I used to repair a machine
[06:39:17] <jthornton> I have too, but we don't make window frames here
[06:39:32] <archivist> http://www.herronwindows.co.uk/img/P8311623b_p.png
[06:39:52] <jthornton> Jymmm, that seems to just be a heat sealer for plastic bags or something
[06:40:28] <jthornton> much too tiny to see
[06:40:43] <archivist> you need a larger thermal qty for thicker plastic an impulse wont cut it
[06:41:14] <Jymmm> Ok, I can work on that, just need to increase the wattage. If I coiled the nichrome wire, unlike mag wire it's not insulated, isthere somethig I could use to keep the coils from touching? I took apart a pencil soldering iron once and there was this "tape like" material in it.
[06:42:26] <Jymmm> jthornton: It is a plastic bag heat sealer. Same principal
[06:42:57] <Jymmm> Just not enough or continous wattage
[06:43:11] <Jymmm> s/wattage/heat/
[06:44:17] <archivist> jthornton, wee original is on too http://www.herronwindows.co.uk/img/P8311623.JPG
[06:44:42] <jthornton> does this make sense "G10 L2 offsets the origin of the axes specified in the coordinate system specified to the value of the axis word."
[06:45:03] <archivist> it is the teflon plate between the upper cylinders
[06:46:04] <Jymmm> ah kapton tape
[06:46:13] <archivist> jthornton, with some explanation probably
[06:46:22] <jthornton> ok
[06:46:36] <archivist> expand some :)
[06:51:09] <archivist> and use of word twice error error, should be a lawyer
[06:51:11] <Jymmm> Ceramic adhesive??? Never heard of such a thing... http://www.makergear.com/pages/ceramic-heater-core-instructions
[06:51:45] <jthornton> lol
[06:56:50] <Jymmm> 2300F expoxy-like putty
[06:57:30] <Jymmm> Since NiChrome melts at 2400F, that should work =)
[06:58:53] <Jymmm> archivist: Did you ever work on making the heating elements or just replace them?
[07:00:48] <jthornton> http://cartridge-heater-online.com/
[07:01:42] <jthornton> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=cartridge+heater&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=925&bih=879&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1475262201556307007&sa=X&ei=LIm3T-iHA4ariQKLm7GRBw&ved=0CLABEPMCMAE
[07:02:30] <jthornton> http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/subsectionsc.asp?book=heaters&subsection=d01
[07:03:38] <andypugh> "Ceramic Adhesive" probably means something like Autostic, but you can prpobably get away with fire cement (like Pyruma) which has worked fine for me.
[07:03:52] <Jymmm> jthornton: thanks, would have never googled for "cartridge heater".
[07:06:15] <jthornton> I kinda thought so
[07:06:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: That must be a UK thing, never heard of it
[07:06:40] <Jymmm> Can't find #907, but... http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ca_electricallyresistant.htm
[07:08:47] <andypugh> http://www.fortafix.com/autostic-range.html
[07:10:27] <Jymmm> andypugh: thanks
[07:11:01] <andypugh> But ordinary fire cement will be fine, probably. The sort of thing you seal flues with.
[07:11:37] <jthornton> Jymmm, I'd bet that wood stove gasket cement would work as well
[07:11:51] <jthornton> can get that from a hardware store
[07:13:23] <Jymmm> jthornton: Is it know by any other name by chance?
[07:13:29] <Jymmm> known*
[07:19:56] <Jymmm> thanks guys, that gives me a great start on the heater element, any thoughts/suggestons on the pinch part?
[07:20:33] <JT-Shop-2> Loetmichel: http://imagebin.org/213006
[07:21:19] <Jymmm> jthornton: Heh, looks like that could easily be connected to your PTO =)
[07:21:44] <JT-Shop> looks can be deceving as you have forgot the speed of a pto
[07:21:59] <JT-Shop> http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=wood+stove+gasket+cement&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=8032870837&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=339453182146064929&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_3mnuffday1_b
[07:22:06] <Jymmm> And I think archivist is right, it does look like a redneck power station!!! lol
[07:22:29] <JT-Shop> yep
[07:23:19] <archivist> chimney cement
[07:23:52] <JT-Shop> it's an allis chalmers power unit with a generator from a tug boat
[07:24:41] <frallzor> JT-Shop
[07:24:48] <JT-Shop> hey
[07:25:00] <frallzor> heyhey, up for more issues with PP? =P
[07:25:34] <JT-Shop> don't have much time this morning just prepping the bike for a ride with the wife but shoot
[07:26:11] <frallzor> tried your PP and it complains about a G53 on a row
[07:26:20] <frallzor> saying it should be G0 or something
[07:26:33] <frallzor> just about to pop out and photograph the error =)
[07:26:50] <JT-Shop> well a G53 without a G0 or 1 will give you an error
[07:27:29] <JT-Shop> yea, I see it
[07:28:14] <frallzor> Is it me or the PP? Since Im all new to HSM =)
[07:30:03] <JT-Shop> the PP is still flawed a bit, if you delete the g53 line is it ok?
[07:30:30] <frallzor> Ill check need to open the file first
[07:30:49] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/20120519_141704.jpg just for fun
[07:30:51] <andypugh> When I was a metallugist we always terminated furnace windings by making a big loop at the end and twisting it tightly together with the incomer, and the same with the other end. So you get triple-thickness (and cold) nichrome for the feeds and a good tight loop round the former too to hold it all in place.
[07:32:09] <andypugh> That was usung uninsulated wire though.
[07:32:11] <frallzor> G53 is the second last row so easy to find =)
[07:32:20] <frallzor> ill try without it, what does it do btw?
[07:32:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: That's what I have. About 100K worth in various gauges =)
[07:32:45] <JT-Shop> nothing by it self
[07:33:02] <frallzor> so no real need at the end then
[07:33:12] <andypugh> You might need to wrap the former in glass cloth or similar then.
[07:33:17] <frallzor> and no real nead at all since I manually change tools etc etc
[07:33:20] <frallzor> *need
[07:33:27] <Jymmm> poof!
[07:33:28] <JT-Shop> the code suggests it is a move to home but only the G53 part is printing
[07:33:50] <frallzor> well I killed that line, so ill try it now
[07:34:04] <frallzor> otherwise Ill go do other things for a few hours =P
[07:34:30] <JT-Shop> yea, just delete the G53
[07:34:35] <frallzor> wrote on the HSM-forum too, got a revised PP for EMC
[07:34:38] <JT-Shop> the offending line in the PP is writeBlock(gAbsIncModal.format(90), gFormat.format(53), gMotionModal.format(0), homeX, homeY);
[07:34:48] <JT-Shop> 949
[07:34:58] <JT-Shop> does it work?
[07:35:18] <frallzor> still prints out odd code, but I know how to fix that now so ill try it later
[07:35:28] <frallzor> still does O3, and demand numbers as name etc etc
[07:35:32] <frallzor> but ill remove that later
[07:36:08] <frallzor> now off to try the G53-less code =)
[07:36:09] <frallzor> brb
[07:36:11] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll work on the offending line when I get back but for now you can just comment that line out
[07:37:33] * JT-Shop goes to clean the dust from the bicyclette
[07:37:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Just don't armorall the set whatever you do!!!
[07:37:58] <Jymmm> =)
[07:38:25] <Jymmm> I did that ONCE, and ONLY once =)
[07:40:56] <Jymmm> Is there any "Bi-Metal" properties between aluminum and brass that anyone is aware of by chance?
[07:51:45] <JT-Shop> by bi-metal do you mean galvanic reaction or combining the two metals like a bi-metal hacksaw blade?
[07:55:51] <frallzor> seems to be working fine now
[07:56:14] <frallzor> did some research about cutters, feed etc too so im running 2x tests in one now =)
[07:56:23] <frallzor> 18krpm HSM with carbide
[07:56:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: reaction
[08:45:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=320909267308&nma=true&rt=nc&si=xjp43HaMd3vznCV11rD5IAtuY6s%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
[08:46:06] <r00t4rd3d> my new camera :)
[08:50:52] <r00t4rd3d> now i will be able to take better pics of my unfinished router
[08:55:21] <alex_joni> good deal
[08:56:51] <Valen> we are going to make a half sheet router soon
[08:56:59] <Valen> i'm thinking a concrete bed for the win
[08:57:06] <Valen> and a carbon fiber gantry
[09:01:33] <r00t4rd3d> that would be fun to move
[09:02:04] <r00t4rd3d> how thick of concrete for the bed?
[09:05:38] <Valen> i was thinking 80mm-100mm
[09:06:00] <Valen> moving it consists of smashing the bed with a jackhammer, moving it, then re-pouring the bed ;->
[09:06:36] <frallzor> I got a 5dmk2 for taking crappy pics of my router
[09:07:04] <Valen> phonecamera FTW
[09:07:54] <frallzor> I need to learn to handle Alu-machining
[09:08:02] <frallzor> allt goes fine until the cutting parts end
[09:08:11] <frallzor> I allways forget to put that info in
[09:09:58] <Valen> return to home through the part and the vice?
[09:24:13] <frallzor> seems like It tried to mill with the shaft being below surface top
[09:24:29] <frallzor> and therefore making more heat than it could handle
[09:24:30] <Valen> that'll cause problems too
[09:24:45] <frallzor> resulting in gooey Alu and super break of the carbide tool =)
[09:25:26] <frallzor> its allways fun to se a broken carbide tool, never think one can result in soooo many small pieces
[09:26:22] <Valen> ours always snap in 2
[09:26:25] <Valen> with a few chips
[09:29:40] <frallzor> you never thing about these things when milling plastic/wood
[09:29:48] <frallzor> *think
[09:29:57] <frallzor> need a new state of mind for Alu it seems =)
[10:07:09] <archivist> frallzor, clearing the chips and not recutting are things to watch with ally
[10:07:39] <archivist> the right lubricant helps
[10:35:35] <frallzor> clearing isnt an issue, they fly like hell =)
[11:03:52] <archivist> dont confuse some flying with success, some may be sticking and being re cut
[11:08:22] <archivist> how deep are you cutting per pass
[11:08:49] <archivist> and how deep are you attempting to get
[11:11:00] <archivist> I think this thread covers a lot http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/endmill-breakage-feeds-speeds-depth-cut-118495/
[11:18:17] <frallzor> are there any cons using arcs?
[11:18:46] <frallzor> seems the mach2 generis PP for HMS played ball better than my current emc2 arcs enabled PP
[11:26:31] <fragalot> urgh
[11:26:46] <fragalot> configure machine for home switches, everything works, reboot machine and do something else
[11:26:50] <fragalot> X axis moves in the wrong direction
[11:27:12] <fragalot> .... change the velocity to the negative number, moves in right direction, doesn't stop at limit switch
[11:28:28] <fragalot> hm, must be the switch acting up.. I just triggered it manually and everything worked ok the next time
[11:35:50] <SolarNRG> Kick me if you think I'm a cheeky twat but... whose faster at making gears than your $2,000 machines? GEAR MADNESS: http://i.imgur.com/OC5Hi.jpg
[11:36:18] <SolarNRG> Cost $80 to make
[11:36:22] <SolarNRG> equivalent
[11:36:49] <SolarNRG> Per gear, maybe $3
[11:37:09] <SolarNRG> The answer is platinum cure
[11:37:14] <SolarNRG> Its awesome!
[11:37:19] <SolarNRG> IT flexes
[11:37:27] <SolarNRG> So you can pop the gear out
[11:37:30] <SolarNRG> ZERO SHRINKAGE
[11:37:44] <SolarNRG> All your warped surfaces problems gone for good and repeatably as shown
[11:38:02] <SolarNRG> I can even make you ANY gear mold you want, this example was designed on Openscad
[11:38:11] <SolarNRG> It was 3d printed!
[11:38:28] <SolarNRG> And it has been re-replicated at cost and time efficiency
[11:38:34] <SolarNRG> The original took 11 hours to make
[11:38:45] <SolarNRG> The mold about 2 days
[11:38:59] <SolarNRG> Then after that a mold can be made in 3 to 4 hours.
[11:39:33] <SolarNRG> Melting now takes no time at all with my bain marie style wax copying
[11:40:07] <SolarNRG> The wax copies are then coated in a special high temperature foundry plaster and baked, the wax is first melted out adn then the wax is recycled
[11:40:17] <SolarNRG> The negative mold is then baked again
[11:40:24] <SolarNRG> then molten steel is poured in
[11:40:41] <SolarNRG> There are 4 copes and drags per surface (added later) to minimize shrinkage
[11:40:59] <SolarNRG> In a tough economy, tough economical measures of production must be taken seriouslt
[12:06:32] <frallzor> no good if you need metal gearing =P
[12:08:08] <frallzor> pretty sure most gears are molded that arent metal =)
[12:08:28] <SolarNRG> Hey, I'll send you a couple if you wanna check em out and you doubt my utterly brilliantness?
[12:09:30] <frallzor> nah, no need, never make things with gears =)
[12:09:43] <frallzor> im into modelmaking/prototyping
[12:33:11] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/IMG_3975.jpg now Im just playing it safe!
[12:33:22] <frallzor> but it ended fine atleast =P
[12:38:00] <SolarNRG> It looks parabolic!
[12:43:08] <gene77> Hey guys, have the bigger motor up and running on the X axis of my lathe, but a calibration question.
[12:43:46] <gene77> When in G7 mode, an incremental move of .1" s/b a .050 at the toolpost, right?
[12:45:13] <gene77> When in G7 mode, an incremental JOG move of .1" s/b a .050 at the toolpost, right?
[12:45:24] <archivist> are you in diameter mode or radius mode
[12:45:49] <archivist> cue penny dropping sound
[12:45:58] <pcw_home> clink
[12:46:03] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:46:25] <cradek> G7 means diameter
[12:46:41] <cradek> G7 G91 G0 X0.1 should move X out 0.05
[12:47:09] <cradek> a jog of 0.1 increment will move X 0.1
[12:47:45] <cradek> jogging doesn't know or care about radius or diameter
[12:48:12] <gene77> So my scale is off by 50% then, thanks Chris
[12:51:13] <gene77> And if the motor does a wheeeoooo at start of a rapid, I am out of stepgen headroom?
[12:52:10] <pcw_home> is that a technical term?
[12:52:54] <gene77> sortof, meaning at a 24 us loop, its up against the stepgen max frequency
[12:54:38] <pcw_home> Is this just a noise issue or is it stalling?
[12:59:26] <gene77> No stalling, I finally found a joint following error at 33.4 ipm. I think I can hear the ripple in the psu too during the backlash catchup time as I exercise it
[13:01:29] <gene77> The motor is actually running below its current as 4.2 amps is all this driver can muster. This is with a 1600 scale in the driver, I think I'll try 1000 next.
[13:02:44] <gene77> Its a 5 amp motor, wired parallel, getting 4.2 amps. I may have to add some filters, or a bigger xformer. ;)
[13:06:12] <pcw_home> what drive and ustep setting?
[13:08:49] <gene77> drive is an 2M542, currently ustep currently 1000, and I finally got it to stall, near the end of a .6" move
[13:09:09] <gene77> at 33.7 ipm
[13:09:44] <gene77> .ini scale is 25400
[13:09:47] <fragalot> hmmmm
[13:10:11] <fragalot> prebuilt cnc kit.. rated current for stepper motors 1.8A .. measured current: 0.6A
[13:10:13] <IchGuckLive> gene77: this motor makes only 300RMP may at 400steps per Rev
[13:10:16] <gene77> metric screws, need mapped, running in inch mode
[13:10:26] <fragalot> would I risk setting it to the current its rated for?
[13:10:47] <fragalot> (at the moment they sometimes unpredictably stall)
[13:11:17] <IchGuckLive> gene77: it will stale over this value at the 2Nm torche value
[13:11:41] <fragalot> measured current with a multimeter.. not sure how well that works with chopped currents...
[13:12:11] <gene77> 4.2 amps is the the 2m542 can do, and 300 rpms are about what I am seeing. Yes, I intend, once I know what I'm doing, to set it down to a max of 30 ipm or less
[13:12:44] <IchGuckLive> do you got the chart for the steppers ?
[13:13:04] <frallzor> I wonder how my CAM-software is thinking
[13:13:16] <gene77> Not for this particular motor
[13:13:17] <IchGuckLive> gene77: http://de.nanotec.com/images/graphik/341_neu.png
[13:13:27] <frallzor> it can mill all the way out in a pocket, despite the shaft being 6mm and the cutters 5mm
[13:13:52] <fragalot> only box I have available atm is the cnc controller ...god this is slow to browse the web with lol\
[13:14:38] <gene77> Stop linuxcnc & you'll gain a little speed ;-)
[13:14:39] <IchGuckLive> gene77: are you on 48V
[13:15:22] <gene77> no, 41, loaded to probably 39 in operation. Transformers are hard to find.
[13:15:49] <IchGuckLive> Meanwell 320Wat at 48V for 25USD
[13:16:05] <IchGuckLive> cased
[13:16:54] <gene77> actually 37.8 with this load on it. :(
[13:17:31] <IchGuckLive> ok 39 is good also and parallel for better torche WHy do you need 1600 pulses per rev on pitch ?
[13:18:00] <gene77> Where, and will it take the noise from the the driverrs without tripping off?
[13:18:42] <gene77> I have had that sort of problems with switcher running that close to their ratings.
[13:18:43] <IchGuckLive> example on trapezional TR20x4 you need 400Steps for 0.01mm Thats 0,00039 inch
[13:19:06] <gene77> I'm down to 1000 now.
[13:19:48] <Loetmichel> so, the chinese has delivered, now i can make two little milling motors ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13212
[13:19:59] <IchGuckLive> the noice is the chopper frequency on the M542 you can change this inside by flexresistor poti
[13:20:59] <pcw_home> 1000 steps/turn = 5 usteps? sounds s little strange
[13:21:08] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: nice what price
[13:21:40] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: agree on that type of motor
[13:22:04] <IchGuckLive> 400 requirerd at lest 800
[13:22:37] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: about 80 eur complete for 1 set collets, 1 1/8", 1 6mm collet extra and two holders with 8mm shaft
[13:23:16] <IchGuckLive> whow thats cool
[13:26:15] <cei> When I run the stepconf for initially setting up a system, inputing multiple parallel port doesn't seem to let me link commands to pins for each port. What am I missing?
[13:27:18] <IchGuckLive> cei: what system / Version
[13:27:40] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: spindle will be looking this way when done-> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
[13:27:52] <cei> linux cnc 2.5.0 on ubuntu 10.04
[13:27:54] <Loetmichel> just with a er1 collet instead of the proxxon shaft
[13:27:58] <A2Sheds> is there a list somewhere of what is in a typical machine shop? let say you wanted to spend $$ and you needed to fill it with machine tools
[13:28:18] <Loetmichel> 200W 12V
[13:28:26] <Loetmichel> 24kROM
[13:28:28] <Loetmichel> RPM
[13:29:05] <IchGuckLive> cei 2.5.0 from livecd or from GIT PPa
[13:29:10] <Loetmichel> and of course with a hull over the square part, mussing in the foto ;)
[13:29:17] <cei> IchGuckLive, livecd
[13:29:23] <IchGuckLive> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[13:29:39] <cei> IchGuckLive, rather, install 2.4.7 from livecd then upgraded to 2.5
[13:30:23] <IchGuckLive> cei did you add the ppa to the synaptic ?
[13:30:43] <Loetmichel> i am just thinking how to get a 2 or 3 speed gearbox in there ;-=
[13:30:45] <Loetmichel> )
[13:30:51] <cei> IchGuckLive, yes. Forgot about the upgrade sorry
[13:31:06] <andypugh> A2Sheds: It would depend on what was being made, but I would think lathe, miller, power hacksaw would be starting points.
[13:31:36] <IchGuckLive> cei: the stepconfwizard is changining last weks so quickly also pncconf
[13:32:05] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: the PWM will do the rest
[13:32:23] <cei> IchGuckLive, Im sorry, I don't know what you meant
[13:32:50] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: no, not for M6 taps ;-)
[13:33:09] <IchGuckLive> cei: open synaptic go to packetsource and add 3rd party deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ lucid v2.5_branch-rt
[13:33:22] <A2Sheds> andypugh, yeah, general machine shop to handle protos in steel and aluminum, was actually looking through tools lists from machine shops,, I know what I'd need but it's funny when somebody asks you for a list
[13:33:46] <andypugh> Welding? You probably want a bench grinder too.
[13:33:49] <cei> IchGuckLive, ok, let me go do that
[13:33:58] <andypugh> Maybe a surface and cylindrical grinders.
[13:34:03] <A2Sheds> and then think of all the tooling
[13:34:05] <andypugh> Inspection equipment?
[13:34:08] <gene77> Just noticed something else I've been meaning to check. Running a G76 cycle, cutting air ATM, the retrace motion is slowly turning the x axis inwards from the end of cut backup as it moves back to the start line
[13:34:20] <IchGuckLive> cei: update the packets by reload button and then add LINUXCNC
[13:34:23] <A2Sheds> yeah, found some big shops with long equipment lists
[13:34:26] <IchGuckLive> not EMC2
[13:34:45] <gene77> Is this intended behaviour?
[13:34:48] <IchGuckLive> cei: not EMC2
[13:34:49] <A2Sheds> andypugh, did you see that article yesterday on combustion efficiency?
[13:35:23] <andypugh> Yes. I was intereested to see what they were claiming as novel.
[13:38:29] <IchGuckLive> ok sorry im off soccer Final here in germany
[13:39:23] <A2Sheds> air compressors, welders, lather, mills, grinders, saws, drills, the list actualy gets pretty long
[13:46:00] <fragalot> gotta love lather
[13:51:44] <ScribbleJ> lather, rinse, repeat!
[13:53:58] <archivist> just dont keep count of the toys, or allow the wife see them arriving
[13:55:10] <A2Sheds> I'm putting together a business plan, need a detailed list
[13:55:50] <archivist> except then the bank will secure loan on said list
[13:56:27] <archivist> I think banks have stronger claws than wives!
[13:56:35] <A2Sheds> heh, not for a loan
[13:56:41] <gene77> That is why I pay cash guys
[13:56:54] <A2Sheds> no loans, grants
[14:32:25] <jymmm> andypugh: Found autostic via google cache at enco, now their website is offline! lol
[14:41:16] <jymmm> andypugh: dissolves in water AFTER curing??? http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=2643&PMITEM=00322792&PMCTLG=00
[15:07:01] <andypugh> Were you planning on washing it?
[15:07:39] <andypugh> It's quite expensive though, fire cement is probably good enough.
[15:13:07] <jymmm> andypugh: Well, not necessarily, but if I was just doing general cleaning, etc. =)
[15:16:18] <jymmm> andypugh: I was jsut surprised it disolved after curing is all
[15:20:13] <bostjan_2> Hello! Need help with camera on axis interface. Anyone familiar? On page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video there is howto, but i dont know where is .axissrc??? Download this file and place code from it in your .axisrc
[15:20:13] <bostjan_2> upload:axisrc-dynamic-tabs
[15:20:28] <bostjan_2> .axisrc
[15:29:48] <andypugh> bostjan_2: You just need to create the .axisrc file in your home directory
[15:30:16] <andypugh> It is an invisible file (begins with a dot)
[15:30:38] <andypugh> But you can create a text file in gedit and give it that name, and save to your home directory.
[15:32:26] <bostjan_2> but then i would not see it again??
[15:32:52] <bostjan_2> sorry, im not from linux world...
[15:35:04] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:35:48] <andypugh> You can see it if you turn on "show hidden files" which is a right-click option in the file select dialog (or a checkbox sometimes)
[15:36:12] <andypugh> (And I am not from the Linux world either)
[15:36:29] <bostjan_2> tnx. Found. So, now i create folder .axisrc and there put the file??
[15:37:46] <mrsun> gah im hopeless
[15:37:49] <mrsun> i should not own stuff
[15:37:55] <andypugh> No, .axisrc is the file name, so put the text from the example in that file
[15:38:11] <mrsun> just got the quick change holder on the lathe today, well now the lathe is in pieces waiting to get gear tooths repaired ... :P
[15:38:29] <andypugh> Oh der
[15:38:33] <andypugh> (dear, even)
[15:39:06] <andypugh> How bad is it? You might be able to drill where the missing tooth is and put a couple of pegs in.
[15:39:11] <mrsun> and i got to see how my bushing looks that i made before, still looks like the day i made it =)
[15:39:12] <andypugh> (then file them to shape)
[15:39:40] <mrsun> andypugh, one of the gears are missing 1 tooth, the other 2 tooths .. in different places
[15:39:56] <andypugh> Ah. Can you get spares?
[15:39:57] <mrsun> need to make guards for those gears
[15:40:22] <mrsun> andypugh, gears ? .. no ... its a real old south bend clone, might be able to get spares but dont know where to look
[15:40:36] <andypugh> The peg bodge will work as long as there are no missing pairs of teeth
[15:41:03] <mrsun> andypugh, cant i just put pegs and like silver solder the "mass" up and cut out new teeth ? :)
[15:41:08] <mrsun> to make it more solid
[15:41:20] <andypugh> Which gears are they?
[15:41:29] <mrsun> the two on the spindle, that connects to the back gear
[15:41:44] <andypugh> So, you can only use high speed?
[15:42:12] <mrsun> andypugh, i can use them ... but doesnt feel right to have two quite small gears that doesnt mesh in very many teeth running with teeth missing :/
[15:42:54] <archivist> mrsun, measure the od and teeth qty
[15:43:25] <mrsun> one of the gears are aparently pressed into the aluminium step pulley also
[15:44:01] <mrsun> archivist, and theen ? :)
[15:44:35] <archivist> we can work out the dp and how easy it is to replace
[15:44:37] <andypugh> What material are they?
[15:44:48] <archivist> should be steel
[15:45:07] <archivist> I have a southbend here :)
[15:45:08] <andypugh> Might be cast iron
[15:45:13] <mrsun> andypugh, atleast one of them is cast
[15:45:17] <mrsun> the big one
[15:45:23] <mrsun> the smaller one i guess could be ordenary steel
[15:45:32] <mrsun> (the one that is connected to the pulley)
[15:46:06] <mrsun> i think the whole thing is a south bend in reality atleast the spindle part
[15:46:33] <mrsun> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELLENT-ORIGINAL-SOUTH-BEND-9-10K-METAL-LATHE-HEADSTOCK-SPINDLE-BULL-GEAR-/370614229257?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D150804618592%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8533483636694039109#ht_500wt_1056 looks exactly like that, the big one
[15:47:04] <andypugh> So buy that one?
[15:47:45] <archivist> there are different sized southbends
[15:47:58] <mrsun> andypugh, have to check so its the right thing, and its money :/
[15:50:17] <mrsun> and can be a good exercise to learn to fix gear teeth =)
[15:50:36] <archivist> anyway you have a mill make a new gear complete
[15:50:52] <andypugh> Well, knowing that a spare is available makes it less frightening to try the fix
[15:51:07] <mrsun> andypugh, haha true =)
[15:51:34] <archivist> will be good enough to flycut using a hand ground tool to the old gear profile
[15:52:27] <mrsun> archivist, yeah found one that used the actual lathe as a shaper to cut his tooth also for a gear =)
[15:53:29] <archivist> I have riveted in new teeth and filed them up to repair clock gears
[15:54:26] <archivist> usually only do that for posh clocks, cheap stuff make a new gear as not a museum piece
[15:58:57] <mrsun> any tips on reducing gear train noice?
[15:59:00] <mrsun> noise
[15:59:54] <archivist> replace the train with helical gears
[16:00:12] <mrsun> ough
[16:00:16] <mrsun> sounds expensive :P
[16:01:55] <archivist> check wear on gear locations (reverser) as spacing could be incorrect and causing noise, but involutes should not care about spacing except when worn out
[16:02:24] <SolarNRG> I mould gears, maybe I can mould helical ones
[16:02:38] <archivist> mine is noisy as hell too, but it is an old camel from ww2
[16:03:11] <SolarNRG> You tell me what you want, I'll make you as many of these parts as you want for a fee
[16:03:29] <archivist> heh, I AM a gear maker
[16:03:40] <SolarNRG> indeed!
[16:03:44] <andypugh> Me too!
[16:03:52] <mrsun> archivist, the gear on the actual back of the spindle is extremly worn ... :/
[16:04:16] <SolarNRG> I'm more on a mass production side than the precision machine side. But if you can CNC a prototype or 3d print a prototype I can make replicas of them
[16:04:45] <archivist> dreaming again I see
[16:05:08] <SolarNRG> I'm sat on a giant pile of self made gears and PROUD
[16:05:21] <SolarNRG> http://i.imgur.com/OC5Hi.jpg
[16:05:23] <SolarNRG> Look
[16:05:45] <SolarNRG> I currently have 2 types of gear in productino
[16:05:51] <mrsun> http://theageofindustry.com/sites/theageofindustry.com/files/geartrain.jpg those gears on the spindle shaft is worn like hell on mine .. dont know how they have managed to wear them down so much :/
[16:06:05] <archivist> out of focus
[16:06:20] <SolarNRG> Mrsun, I propose an alloy gear, far more sheer and bend resistant
[16:06:30] <SolarNRG> As they spin they microscopically warp in and out
[16:06:37] <SolarNRG> from the conservation of momentum
[16:06:48] <SolarNRG> And there will always be an imbalance of some kind in gears
[16:07:03] <SolarNRG> you can reduce it
[16:07:16] <SolarNRG> better more accurate designs and production
[16:07:25] <SolarNRG> Its a trial and error process
[16:07:39] <SolarNRG> If that didn't work, change the prototype a bit remold it
[16:08:25] <bostjan_2> andypugh: i have managed, but i have a plenty of errors now..
[16:08:48] <mrsun> and my guess is that a repair of those gears isnt very easy .. and a whole new spindle my guess is expensive =)
[16:09:07] <bostjan_2> Traceback says :
[16:09:08] <bostjan_2> andypugh
[16:09:39] <andypugh> Interesting errors?
[16:09:52] <bostjan_2> TypeError: 'Popen' object is not iterable
[16:10:04] <bostjan_2> Sorry!
[16:10:09] <archivist> mrsun, is that a picture of yours?
[16:10:27] <mrsun> archivist, no, can get a picture tomorrow, its horrid ... =)
[16:10:55] <mrsun> they must have had the forward/back lever in some odd position some time and just "milled" the teeth of with those gears or something
[16:10:56] <andypugh> I am not at all familiar with python
[16:11:06] <mrsun> its cant be normal wear =)
[16:11:07] <archivist> I have not looked at mine for many many years
[16:11:18] <bostjan_2> andypugh: the problem i have is that i dont have Axis values in image window..
[16:11:49] <jymmm> andypugh: If you can do c/c++ you can easily do python =)
[16:11:50] <archivist> mrsun, define normal, some lathes are on production work and get hammered
[16:12:13] <mrsun> archivist, yeah but nothing else is worn so badly
[16:12:27] <mrsun> or yeah .. the leadscrew is in kinda bad shape also
[16:12:34] <mrsun> so i guess it could be =)
[16:13:22] <archivist> mrsun, also look for v wear on the bed, mine has sunk a bit
[16:13:23] <andypugh> bostjan_2: You might need to come back when psha is online.
[16:13:36] <andypugh> I got the camera working, but it was a bit hit-and-miss
[16:13:37] <mrsun> archivist, how would i detect that? :)
[16:13:48] <mrsun> is it usaly visible to the eye ?
[16:13:59] <mrsun> the V grooves looks very nice when just looking at them atleast =)
[16:14:34] <andypugh> bostjan_2: Which LinuxCNC version do you have?
[16:14:46] <archivist> mrsun, tow ways a level on the saddle as you ride up and down, or finger nail on the ridge of the wear
[16:15:08] <archivist> saddle wears too
[16:15:28] <andypugh> bostjan_2: Anyway, all I can suggest is reading that Wiki page and the links. I am not really the right guy to be trying to help.
[16:15:30] <bostjan_2> andypugh:2.5 and 10.04 lucid.. I have image, crosshair, circle,đ
[16:16:18] <bostjan_2> doesnt matter, i appreciate your help (sorry, bad English). i will try to contacr psha..
[16:16:41] <mrsun> damn just remembered i found a company that holds old stock of replacement parts for this lathe in sweden =)
[16:16:57] <mrsun> maybe should give them a call on monday and see what parts they have and the prices of them =)
[16:17:14] <mrsun> stupid people take like 50$ for the catalog with the spare parts :/
[16:38:32] <alex4nder> hey
[16:41:04] <ReadError> sup
[16:41:24] <ReadError> i think my chips are getting welded ;/
[16:41:26] <alex4nder> not a lot, got my new 12v power supply for the mill, and the SSRs to control the spindle and coolant pump
[16:41:46] <alex4nder> ReadError: do you see chips in the endmill?
[16:41:55] <alex4nder> I mean, like aluminum nuggets
[16:42:06] <ReadError> i scrapped one out i think
[16:42:09] <ReadError> tiny spec
[16:42:15] <alex4nder> was it hard to get out?
[16:42:16] <ReadError> but the outside, or inside of my cut
[16:42:16] <alex4nder> "hard"
[16:42:21] <ReadError> is like, fuzzy
[16:42:28] <alex4nder> oh, like it smeared?
[16:42:30] <ReadError> like the chips are hairs standing straight up
[16:42:53] <alex4nder> what are your feeds and speeds?
[16:43:24] <ReadError> 1.7imp
[16:43:30] <ReadError> ipm
[16:43:42] <ReadError> not sure the spindle speed
[16:43:46] <ReadError> its right above the middle
[16:43:56] <ReadError> i can get a pic 1 min
[16:45:25] <alex4nder> what size endmill?
[16:45:56] <Tom_itx> ReadError are you milling copper?
[16:46:04] <Tom_itx> copper is 'stringy'
[16:46:55] <alex4nder> ReadError: your feed rate is really low
[16:46:56] <Tom_itx> if it's aluminum it's probably O material and that also sucks to mill
[16:47:24] <alex4nder> how hot is your endmill getting
[16:48:19] <jymmm> I asked ReadError what material 6 hours ago, still hasn't said what it is
[16:48:32] <alex4nder> jymmm: maybe you offended him
[16:48:45] <alex4nder> it's .1875" aluminum IIRC
[16:48:56] <jymmm> alex4nder: maybe you offended me?
[16:49:03] <alex4nder> jymmm: please say so.
[16:49:11] * Tom_itx offends jymmm on purpose
[16:49:12] <jymmm> why?
[16:49:12] <alex4nder> I have small goals in life, and that's one of them.
[16:49:26] <jymmm> Tom_itx: Yes, I know.
[16:49:29] <Tom_itx> :D
[16:49:37] <Tom_itx> it's all good
[16:49:37] <jymmm> alex4nder: gee thanks
[16:49:37] <ReadError> https://p.twimg.com/AtSfOrGCIAIGP9h.jpg:large
[16:49:40] <alex4nder> jymmm: :(
[16:49:43] <alex4nder> hugs
[16:49:53] <alex4nder> uh yah
[16:49:54] <ReadError> i was asleep then i think jymmm :)
[16:50:11] <alex4nder> dude
[16:50:13] <ReadError> its like fuzzy
[16:50:15] <Tom_itx> well you're not asleep now and i just asked
[16:50:19] <jymmm> ReadError: are you asleep now?
[16:50:31] <ReadError> oh no i just ran downstairs
[16:50:33] <ReadError> to get the pic
[16:50:38] <ReadError> after i said pic 1 min
[16:50:40] <ReadError> then i post
[16:50:43] <ReadError> now im back ;)
[16:50:43] <jymmm> ReadError: WHAT material?
[16:50:47] <alex4nder> you're doing entire DoC?
[16:50:47] <ReadError> 6061
[16:50:49] <Tom_itx> i know what metal looks like
[16:50:50] <jymmm> ty
[16:51:00] <alex4nder> and just letting the mill plow through it?
[16:51:01] <Tom_itx> what hardness?
[16:51:06] <ReadError> yea
[16:51:12] <Tom_itx> T3 T6?
[16:51:14] <ReadError> 6061-t6
[16:51:15] <ReadError> i think
[16:51:23] <alex4nder> I bet your endmill is getting really hot
[16:51:29] <Tom_itx> then your feeds are all wrong or you got a dull cutter
[16:51:34] <ReadError> ya i wore the coating down
[16:51:37] <alex4nder> ok
[16:51:42] <ReadError> i put a brand new one on before Tom_itx
[16:51:43] <Tom_itx> toss that one
[16:51:51] <ReadError> it was brand new before i started
[16:51:56] <ReadError> and happened after the 1st cut
[16:51:59] <alex4nder> yes
[16:52:02] <alex4nder> you're burning it up
[16:52:04] <ReadError> niagara cutter, 3F
[16:52:09] <ReadError> so am i going to fast?
[16:52:11] <alex4nder> I bet it got hot as shit
[16:52:12] <alex4nder> no,
[16:52:13] <alex4nder> too slow
[16:52:15] <alex4nder> way too slow
[16:52:23] <ReadError> ohh
[16:52:30] <Tom_itx> aluminum should cut like butter if it's set right
[16:52:39] <ReadError> it sounded kinda scary when it was turning
[16:52:40] <alex4nder> ReadError: heat is removed from endmill by the chip of metal.. at that feed rate, and that spindle speed, you're creating aluminum dust.
[16:52:41] <Tom_itx> especially with carbide
[16:52:45] <ReadError> when i was at a higher speed
[16:52:52] <ReadError> wasnt sure if that sound was normal
[16:52:57] <alex4nder> you can't just plunge the endmill into the material
[16:53:11] <alex4nder> you have to do multiple passes
[16:53:12] <Tom_itx> yeah and if you do, make sure it's a center cutting endmill
[16:53:15] <Tom_itx> not all are.
[16:53:20] <ReadError> ahh
[16:53:27] <ReadError> so like 1/2 the depth? but 2 cuts
[16:53:33] <Tom_itx> i generally ramp in if i need to plunge or drill a hole first
[16:53:40] <alex4nder> ReadError: watch my spiral video.
[16:53:48] <alex4nder> look at the chip size
[16:53:54] <ReadError> yea much larger
[16:54:22] <ReadError> other than that, they can out how i expected ;)
[16:54:26] <Tom_itx> find a feed and speed chart online for different materials and use it
[16:54:27] <ReadError> should work for what im doing
[16:54:32] <Tom_itx> look at chip loads
[16:54:46] <ReadError> well i was told each endmill had a datasheet
[16:54:51] <ReadError> but was unable to locate any for mine
[16:54:57] <ReadError> they are pretty cheap though, 10$
[16:55:06] <Tom_itx> call your local tool rep
[16:55:07] <Tom_itx> he knows
[16:55:25] <alex4nder> ReadError: you can ballpark it and be fine
[16:55:30] <Tom_itx> he was always coming by trying to sell us his new 'stuff'
[16:55:37] <ReadError> Tom_itx: amazon ;)
[16:55:46] <Tom_itx> go figure
[16:56:33] <Tom_itx> how many flutes do your cutters have?
[16:56:35] <alex4nder> ReadError: how big is the endmill?
[16:56:45] <ReadError> 0.125
[16:56:52] <ReadError> that was a 3F Tom_itx
[16:56:54] <Tom_itx> i use 4 on steel and 2 or 3 on aluminum
[16:57:09] <Tom_itx> 2 might work better
[16:57:25] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BIEUZY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
[16:57:33] <Tom_itx> the chips coming off will be bigger than on steel
[16:58:43] <Tom_itx> i don't like 3 flute in general simply because you can't mic them to see how worn they are
[17:01:41] <alex4nder> ReadError: your feed per tooth is like .00014
[17:01:49] <alex4nder> it should probably be closer to .002
[17:02:01] <Tom_itx> or .004
[17:02:04] <Tom_itx> for alum
[17:02:10] <Tom_itx> somewhere in there
[17:02:19] <alex4nder> yah
[17:02:31] <Tom_itx> depending what the machine can take
[17:03:06] <Tom_itx> then it's a matter of watching the spindle load meter on the machine
[17:03:13] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: he's on a taig
[17:03:16] <alex4nder> let's not get crazy
[17:03:42] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: speaking of which, are those spindle load meters usually just displaying current consumption?
[17:03:50] <Tom_itx> i watched a Mori once flycutting a steel plate at 1/4" a pass with a 5" flycutter with carbide inserts, no coolant and the chips were flying off white hot
[17:04:14] <Tom_itx> sticking to the paint inside the machining center
[17:04:27] <alex4nder> hah
[17:06:22] <Tom_itx> carbide loves heat
[17:07:13] <Tom_itx> i think the hardest stuff we ever tried to mill was some tungsten ballast for some airplane wings
[17:07:29] <Tom_itx> if you weren't careful you'd crack it
[17:07:39] <alex4nder> did that work harden?
[17:07:40] <Tom_itx> and if you dropped it you were doomed for sure
[17:07:51] <Tom_itx> we cut it with tungsten carbide
[17:08:00] <Tom_itx> not so much that i remember
[17:08:34] <Tom_itx> the tool guy found us some really good inserts
[17:14:18] <frallzor> which is best for smoothes motion via
[17:14:26] <frallzor> EMC, arcs or non-arcs?
[17:15:14] <frallzor> just seems like somethings when doing something simple as a circle the motion isnt fluid
[17:15:29] <frallzor> *sometimes
[17:15:50] <alex4nder> you mean because it pauses at the end of its motion?
[17:16:03] <frallzor> sometimes durin too it feels like
[17:16:06] <frallzor> *g
[17:16:38] <alex4nder> is your control setup missing steps?
[17:16:48] <frallzor> nope
[17:17:19] <frallzor> im pretty certain its related to code somehow
[17:17:51] <frallzor> like when milling alu today, helixmotion for clearing was smooth, but circles feelt like allways
[17:20:00] <frallzor> pretty sure the PP for mach2 I used yesterday when EMC PP was behaving oddly felt better
[17:20:12] <frallzor> and now when using EMC PP with arcs its like this
[17:20:14] <ReadError> i need to get a set of those used drill bits on fleabay
[17:20:48] <alex4nder> why not buy a new full index?
[17:22:05] <frallzor> "The generic EMC assumes that you are using incremental arc center mode. If you are using absolute arc center mode then the arcs would be wrong.
[17:22:13] <ReadError> not sure what that is alex_joni
[17:22:16] <ReadError> alex4nder
[17:22:17] <frallzor> what is the difference between those two modes?
[17:24:54] <alex4nder> ReadError: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4150&category=-456343308
[17:27:55] <frallzor> JT-Shop here? =)
[17:34:02] <ReadError> http://www.ebay.com/itm/150729671178?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648#ht_4066wt_1382
[17:35:34] <alex4nder> oh, you want mini ones.
[17:37:56] <ReadError> well ill need some for PCB work too
[17:47:59] <andypugh> frallzor: You can either give the arc centre as offset from the arc start, or absolute position in the current coordinate system
[17:48:41] <frallzor> what is the main difference?
[17:50:29] <andypugh> The numbers
[17:51:11] <frallzor> was talking to a friend that said something about "choppyness" with some mode that was fixed by switching modes
[17:51:16] <Tom_itx> does that have anything to do with G90 G91 mode?
[17:51:36] <andypugh> No
[17:52:00] <andypugh> Or yes. Depending on which question I am answering
[17:53:57] <Tom_itx> did gene get his steppers figured out?
[17:54:20] <frallzor> andypugh yes or no about choppyness or not to that? =P
[17:55:24] <andypugh> No to choppiness, yes to G90.1
[17:55:46] <frallzor> any idea on what can fix that when just changing modes?
[17:56:09] <frallzor> my friend said that circles were choppy on a new machine and they changed some "mode"
[17:56:27] <frallzor> or probably all motion that isnt just straight lines
[18:04:40] <Aero-Tec> anyone use EMC for water jet machine?
[18:05:15] <Aero-Tec> has anyone made or even played with water jet?
[18:05:38] <frallzor> considering the pressure needed Im sure noone will make one
[18:06:29] <Aero-Tec> no one?
[18:06:43] <Aero-Tec> funny thing is I would like to try and make one
[18:07:01] <frallzor> good luck then =)
[18:07:06] <Aero-Tec> so I guess some one will, if not me someone else
[18:07:27] <Aero-Tec> how hard can it be?
[18:07:55] <pfred1> pretty hard
[18:08:02] <Aero-Tec> high water pressure is safe to work with
[18:08:09] <alex4nder> well, someone had to make one
[18:08:13] <alex4nder> originally. ;)
[18:08:14] <pfred1> yeah if you don't like fingers
[18:08:17] <frallzor> lets just say that say pressure is enough to make things fly through your body =)
[18:08:18] <Aero-Tec> no explosions to worry about
[18:08:42] <pfred1> water jets will cut through a foot of steel how dangerious can they be?
[18:08:47] <alex4nder> haha
[18:08:49] <Tom_itx> pop a line and you can sever a limb
[18:08:56] <Aero-Tec> lol
[18:09:00] <Aero-Tec> no
[18:09:07] <Aero-Tec> it does not work that way
[18:09:19] <frallzor> that why the compressor is as big as a house
[18:09:29] <frallzor> because of the low pressure needed
[18:09:31] <Aero-Tec> pop a line and you get nothing but a little wet
[18:09:32] <pfred1> I met a guy with one he ran it 24/7 to keep the bank off his ass
[18:09:58] <Aero-Tec> now that is the problem with them
[18:10:08] <Aero-Tec> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[18:10:16] <pfred1> yeah they're real cool if you got a half a mil to blow
[18:10:19] <Aero-Tec> they are nuts expensive
[18:10:29] <frallzor> for a reason
[18:10:52] <Aero-Tec> and very high maintenance
[18:11:00] <pfred1> I have to say nothing cuts cleaner not evne lasers
[18:11:23] <Aero-Tec> they do not cut, they erode
[18:11:48] <pfred1> when you start out with part A and end up with parts C and C I'd say there is cutting going on
[18:11:57] <pfred1> B and C that is
[18:12:01] <Aero-Tec> the garnet gets added to the water jet and erodes the target away
[18:12:45] <Aero-Tec> the result is a cut, the action is erosion
[18:13:08] <Aero-Tec> it is high pressure and low volume
[18:13:10] <pfred1> a cutting torch burns the steel it is still cutting going on
[18:13:43] <frallzor> a cut is a cut no matter what
[18:13:43] <pfred1> can't really torch cut stainless stuff don't burn right
[18:14:04] <pfred1> you can kinda go through it but it just isn't the same
[18:14:21] <andypugh> I can't see any reason that a LinuxCNC retrofit wouldn't be good for a waterjet, but building one from scratch sounds hard.
[18:14:26] <Aero-Tec> the thing with the expense is guys think it is dangerous and high tec
[18:14:46] <frallzor> andypugh pretty much impossible too :)
[18:14:51] <pfred1> get a pressure washer and thros some sand in see what happens
[18:15:06] <pfred1> maybe that is all there really is to it
[18:15:25] <Aero-Tec> and to a point it is high tec, to get the most out of it for the power, but is is not out of reach of us guys
[18:15:42] <andypugh> Anything which has been done can be done again. I don't see any reason that you couldn't make a waterjet, it would just be a lot of work
[18:15:56] <andypugh> The first guy to make one, made one, after all.
[18:16:11] <frallzor> probably was a company though =)
[18:16:16] <pfred1> yeah and he figured $500.000 was a nice round number
[18:16:18] <frallzor> with more resourses
[18:16:25] <frallzor> *resources even
[18:16:48] <Aero-Tec> not as much work as one might think
[18:16:56] <pfred1> the cut edges are beautiful like you sat there and sanded them by hand like forever
[18:16:58] <Aero-Tec> the work had been done
[18:17:12] <Aero-Tec> I can buy seal that I know work for the job
[18:17:23] <Aero-Tec> I do not have to redesign them
[18:17:39] <frallzor> why argue, prove us wrong instead =)
[18:17:42] <pfred1> let's put it this way if it was that easy to make them no one would get away with charging what they charge for the things
[18:18:02] <andypugh> I seem to recall that the idea was developed by a guy in a shed, actually.
[18:18:25] <pfred1> andypugh soe guys in sheds are pretty well equipped
[18:18:36] <andypugh> We try to be
[18:18:49] <pfred1> indeed you do
[18:18:54] <Aero-Tec> oh, BTW a good pressure washer will cut just like the real thing
[18:18:59] * pfred1 picked up some more equipment today
[18:19:04] <Aero-Tec> not as deep
[18:19:09] <Aero-Tec> not as fast
[18:19:18] <Aero-Tec> but it will cut if done right
[18:19:40] <Aero-Tec> the trick is the abrasive
[18:19:42] <pfred1> I met a guy at a craft show who had a jet he said he'd stack that steel up a foot high and have at it 1/4" plates
[18:20:07] <pfred1> sold each piece of his work for $300
[18:20:11] <pfred1> do the math
[18:20:11] <Aero-Tec> you have to add the abrasive to the flow and you will cut things with a pressure washer
[18:20:34] <frallzor> gotta be one hell of a washer then
[18:20:35] <pfred1> he also said he ran it 24/7/365 too
[18:21:01] <pfred1> he had a bit of a scared look in his eyes
[18:21:18] <Aero-Tec> lol
[18:21:32] <Aero-Tec> can not run them that long and hard
[18:21:40] <pfred1> I'm sure if i was wearing a suit I'd have just seen his back as he was running away
[18:21:54] <Aero-Tec> they need a rebuild every 200 hours or so
[18:22:19] <Aero-Tec> not a cheap toy
[18:22:23] <pfred1> I hear the battery salvage biz is better
[18:22:41] <pfred1> them guys smile when the bankers show up
[18:22:55] <Aero-Tec> the big guys need speed and power, 100 to 200 HP pumps hammering away cutting things
[18:24:16] <pfred1> I stole the monotor off my CNC PC but I just got a new one for it
[18:24:23] <pfred1> monitor even
[18:24:42] * pfred1 is totally addicted to dual monitors now ...
[18:24:54] <Aero-Tec> but you can cut 1/4 steel with a pressure washer fitted with a garnet nozzle
[18:24:56] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Did you see: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_plasma_waterjet_machines/27852-home_build_water_jet_-.html
[18:25:25] <Aero-Tec> no but will check it out
[18:25:32] <Aero-Tec> how did it work out?
[18:25:43] <pfred1> Aero-Tec yeah but what happens when you stack 4 dozen of those plates on top of each other?
[18:26:12] <Aero-Tec> you cut very slowly
[18:26:19] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Some interesting things mentioned, and a link to a waterjet forum.
[18:26:19] <Aero-Tec> it can be done
[18:26:42] <andypugh> And lots of discussion about how nasty a waterjet injury is.
[18:26:48] <Aero-Tec> the cut may not look great with that many stacked up
[18:26:48] <pfred1> I see lots of homebrew plasma cutters
[18:27:17] <frallzor> cuts look the same
[18:27:20] <andypugh> I don't see many homebrew plasma torches though.
[18:27:26] <frallzor> but greater distance = angle
[18:27:33] <Aero-Tec> yes, a water jet cut can be very nasty
[18:27:51] <frallzor> exploding pipes too
[18:28:01] <Aero-Tec> the trick is not to get your hand in the way of the nozzle
[18:28:02] <andypugh> I think the difference is that you can buy a handheld plasma and CNC it, but you can't buy a handheld waterjet
[18:29:05] <Aero-Tec> frallzor: I was talking if you tried it with a pressure washer version
[18:29:25] <Aero-Tec> yes the real units can cut stacks with no problems
[18:29:26] <andypugh> We work woth 20,000psi diesel at work. I don't know of anyone actually getting hurt by it.
[18:29:49] <Aero-Tec> the pipes will not explode
[18:29:55] <Aero-Tec> they will bust
[18:30:01] <pfred1> andypugh nice to work with intelligent co-workers isn't it?
[18:30:16] <Aero-Tec> if your holding them when it does bust it could hurt you
[18:30:18] <andypugh> You can buy 20,000 psi flex piping off-the-shelf.
[18:31:01] <pfred1> I've heard about people blowing up their fingers trying to plug hydraulic leaks
[18:31:01] <Aero-Tec> if you know where to look you can get 50K plus off the shelf
[18:32:26] <Aero-Tec> that is different, a small split and high volume high pressure can cut
[18:32:40] <Aero-Tec> with water jut it is low volume
[18:32:48] <pfred1> yeah just a little pinhole squirt poof!
[18:33:06] <Aero-Tec> when it splits the pressure drops like a stone
[18:33:48] <Aero-Tec> I am not going to argue about it
[18:33:49] <pfred1> I always heard all kinds of horror stories about air tanks blowing up and i had one rot out on me it just hissed
[18:34:24] <pfred1> so some stuff is BS
[18:35:14] <andypugh> pfred1: Depends on the failure mode.
[18:35:38] <pfred1> this was a non ANSI tank and it just rotted through 125 PSI
[18:35:47] <pfred1> I welded it and it was fine
[18:36:22] <pfred1> one air tank I got has a date 1945 on it it is ANSI though
[18:36:37] <andypugh> I was involved in the investigation of a failure of a ball mill. Rocks + clay + sand + water churning round for several hours in a drum. The timer failed and it ran all night. It blew the end wall of a 3-floor factory out.
[18:37:26] <pfred1> ain't that just always the way some cheap part goes and it takes the whole shebang with it?
[18:37:53] <jdhNC> I've gotten He in bottles with 1930's hydro dates
[18:38:16] <pfred1> gotta love noble gasses
[18:38:31] <andypugh> http://asmedl.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=ASMECP002002019485000039000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes&ref=no
[18:39:23] <jdhNC> andy: are they run under pressure? what was it that exploded?
[18:39:39] <pfred1> I never heliarced I do like my argon though
[18:39:53] <pfred1> I have a 330cuft tank of it
[18:40:12] <jdhNC> I have 4 o2 and 4 He bottles
[18:40:33] <pfred1> after the 330 you have to get into pods
[18:41:04] <pfred1> big oxidizer bottles are usually 220 cuft
[18:41:11] <jdhNC> you can get HP argon, almost 2x the gas in the same size bottle
[18:41:40] <jdhNC> my o2 comes in 337ft^3 bottles
[18:41:42] <pfred1> my tanks comes with 2000+ PSI in it I don't think I'd want any higher pressure than that
[18:42:08] <pfred1> trick is to buy your gas on a cold day
[18:42:09] <jdhNC> normal is 2400 or 2640 (for 3aa steel bottles)
[18:42:14] <pfred1> then yo uget a little more :)
[18:45:10] <jdhNC> I don't care so much about volume, I just need more pressure for transfilling.
[18:45:17] <jdhNC> or a booster.
[18:45:34] <pfred1> neat how they make argon they freeze it out of the air
[18:46:38] <pfred1> once you put helium into the air it just drifts away
[18:46:40] <Tom_itx> huh
[18:47:05] <pfred1> argon is heavy enough it stays by the planet
[18:47:10] <jdhNC> yeah, sucks for the helium. I pay $12 for 337ft of o2, $95 for 320ft of helium
[18:47:13] <pfred1> helium isn't
[18:47:37] <pfred1> any helium we have we get from under rock ledges
[18:47:53] <pfred1> there is only a few places in the world yo ucan actually find the stuff
[18:48:29] <pfred1> evne if it is the second most abundent element in the Universe there ain't very much on Earth
[18:49:18] <jdhNC> we use it for tig welding at work. Two trailer tank things a week
[18:49:37] <pfred1> well the original name for TIG welding was heli-arcing
[18:49:59] <pfred1> because back in the day I guess that is all anyone used
[18:50:46] <andypugh> Argon is a marvelous business to be in. You pull it out the air, sell it to people, and they put it back in the air exactly the same amount, totally unchanged.
[18:51:09] <pfred1> andypugh yup it takes a lot of energy to get it back out of the air again though
[18:51:40] <pfred1> it boils off at something like -187
[18:51:47] <andypugh> True, but it is probably the most sustainable industry
[18:52:06] <andypugh> Helium is likely to become a problem in the near future
[18:52:21] <pfred1> well we've found a couple more pockets of the stuff
[18:52:40] <pfred1> there are maybe 5 spots in the world
[18:52:52] <jdhNC> every year there is a big "helium is running out, suppliers cutting off balloon users/etc" event.
[18:52:53] <andypugh> But I think Indium is likely to be the first thing to run out. Then no more LCDs or touch-screens.
[18:53:15] <pfred1> I just scored another $5 flat screen
[18:53:33] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/zUAw8.jpg
[18:53:58] <jdhNC> and a ti30?
[18:54:13] <pfred1> yeah big run on Ti calcs today too a buck each
[18:54:52] <pfred1> I got one in my garage but I hate walking over to get it
[18:55:14] <pfred1> what a lazy American :)
[18:55:37] <jdhNC> I bought 68ft (rest of spool) of 22-4 stranded wire to use for hookups last week, tried to use it last night and it was solid
[18:56:05] <Tom_itx> silly you
[18:56:22] <pfred1> I bought a spool if 14 MTW years ago I still have a bunch of it
[18:57:19] <pfred1> jdhNC I haven't fired the old Ti30 up yet I hope it still works
[18:57:32] <jdhNC> havent seen one of those since... 1979?
[18:57:32] <pfred1> the Ti36 next to it works
[18:57:45] <pfred1> heck thing don't want to shut off
[18:58:22] <pfred1> man I remember when 7 segment red LEDs came out
[18:58:34] <pfred1> it really brings me back
[18:58:47] <jdhNC> cool... bet you were really glad when they came up with fire.
[18:59:01] <pfred1> just about
[18:59:30] <pfred1> I remember seeing Star Wars in a theatre and being blown away by the computer graphics
[18:59:39] <pfred1> today it looks like tic tac toe
[19:00:08] <jdhNC> how about watching the 'moon landing' on a b&w teevee?
[19:00:15] <pfred1> yup I remember that too
[19:00:30] <pfred1> it wasn't as thrilling because no one knew how much trouble they were really in
[19:00:43] <pfred1> it seemed totally under control at the time
[19:01:24] <pfred1> today we know the computer was crashed and he had 30 seconds of fuel to burn
[19:01:37] <pfred1> gutsy move to put it down
[19:02:05] <pfred1> you ever seen the footage of niel baling on the practice run?
[19:02:14] <pfred1> that was what got him the job
[19:02:26] <pfred1> that is insane!
[19:05:12] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-gW6AdzgwU
[19:06:58] <jdhNC> anyone have a config with a 7i37TA on a 7i43 (or any fpga card)
[19:09:10] <andypugh> Early start tomorrow guys, so goodnight.
[19:09:18] <pfred1> nite
[19:11:14] <frallzor> best way to avoid "stopping" during motion is G64 right?
[19:11:32] <frallzor> and with a P for some tolerance setting
[19:17:57] <JT-Shop> frallzor: use G64 P something yes
[19:18:47] <frallzor> is it possible to make it happen in the PP? =P
[19:18:55] <JT-Shop> frallzor: have you seen this? http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/index.html
[19:19:24] <JT-Shop> yes, but not tonight I'm well done and brain dead atm
[19:20:21] <frallzor> i=)
[19:20:36] <JT-Shop> 10 hrs riding, drinking, eating and poking fun wears me out
[19:21:04] <JT-Shop> but I did get a nice rinse off on the last leg that cooled me down nice
[19:22:29] <frallzor> biking?
[19:24:02] <JT-Shop> goldwing
[19:24:10] <frallzor> ahh scooter ;)
[19:24:35] <JT-Shop> no couch on wheels with a stereo
[19:24:45] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/HPIM1988-1.jpg
[19:25:51] <frallzor> so thats what a JT looks like
[19:26:06] <jymmm> frallzor: ugly, aint he?
[19:26:21] <frallzor> no comments!
[19:26:29] <jymmm> hahaha
[19:26:55] <frallzor> either that or "thats a puuurty one, umhummm"
[19:27:03] <jymmm> JT-Shop: No roll bars?
[19:27:07] <JT-Shop> LOL
[19:27:24] <JT-Shop> yea, look close... used them this afternoon
[19:27:35] <jymmm> JT-Shop: "engine bars" or whatever you call em
[19:28:07] <jymmm> JT-Shop: I see the two sets of pegs, but that's it
[19:28:27] <JT-Shop> look close
[19:28:47] <JT-Shop> they are there I used them today
[19:29:03] <jymmm> those tiny things near the front?
[19:29:27] <JT-Shop> yea and the tiny things in front of the saddle bags
[19:29:35] <pcw_home> jdhNC: well I do...
[19:29:51] <jymmm> wait, what do you mean "used them today"? you dumped the bike?
[19:30:37] <JT-Shop> layed it over in the parking lot at the bar... turned to tight trying to park... no biggy just let it fall and get off
[19:31:03] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, that sucks. Able to get it up solo?
[19:31:07] <JT-Shop> stand it back up and nothing gets even a scratch unless your friends see it then well
[19:31:10] <frallzor> fancy way of parking =)
[19:31:17] <jymmm> other than the color, i kinda like it http://www.goldwings-northwales.org.uk/history/gl1500e.jpg
[19:31:26] <JT-Shop> yea, just need to use proper lifting
[19:32:55] <jymmm> JT-Shop: 2x4? lol
[19:33:25] <jymmm> JT-Shop: leverage
[19:33:50] <JT-Shop> no, you just squat and grab it in the proper places and stand up...
[19:34:19] <jymmm> ah, it's not everyday I try to stand up a 1200 lb bike =)
[19:35:21] <jymmm> Ok, I got the heater figured out, now the pinch is the bitch of the day
[19:36:10] <JT-Shop> jymmm: it only weighs in at ~900 lbs
[19:36:23] <jymmm> JT-Shop: isn't that light for a goldwing?
[19:37:32] <JT-Shop> look it up
[19:37:40] <JT-Shop> I"m too tired
[19:37:49] <jymmm> no biggy
[19:38:06] <jymmm> just go enjoy a few brews to recover
[19:38:27] <JT-Shop> sipping on some vino @ room temperature
[19:38:33] <jymmm> ah
[19:38:41] <frallzor> is that code for moonshine?
[19:38:53] <JT-Shop> red wine
[19:39:12] <jymmm> hooch would be moonshine
[19:39:19] <JT-Shop> a slug of everclear would put me to sleep in 10 minutes
[19:39:40] <jymmm> Nitrocellulose Lacquer
[19:41:21] <JT-Shop> only thing I care for that is flamable is Remy Martin 1738 on a cold winter evening by the fire
[19:41:58] <jymmm> I pasted in wrong window
[19:42:31] <jymmm> JT-Shop: (I'm trying to get around ATF restrictions)
[19:43:26] <JT-Shop> don't know that I would advertise that lol
[19:43:36] <jymmm> JT-Shop: You can BUY fuse all day long, but you can't SELL fuse without an ATF permit.
[19:43:50] <Tom_itx> where has danimal been lately?
[19:44:05] <jymmm> JT-Shop: So, I'm looking for (legal) alternatives.
[19:44:09] <JT-Shop> filming jackasses stealing his jack
[19:44:15] <JT-Shop> gotcha
[19:44:46] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Safety Fuse == Low Yield Explosive (in the eyes of the ATF)
[19:45:42] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Due to the black powder content. So If can come up with something that doens't use an oxidizer, I may be able to get aroudn the legaleze
[19:45:52] <JT-Shop> danimal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3UfLgDXdRk&list=UUz5Hfl-_SxC8GLNHEDJJT3w&index=1&feature=plcp
[19:47:39] <frallzor> shoot them?
[19:47:52] <frallzor> trespassing is trespassing over there? =P
[19:48:24] <JT-Shop> he is in Califorina and they don't want to hurt the theifs feelings you know
[19:49:02] <frallzor> ahh that explains alot
[19:49:11] <frallzor> call the governator then!
[19:49:36] <pfred1> no moonbeam runs the state now
[19:49:59] <frallzor> better, then he is the terminator again
[19:50:42] <pfred1> yeah arnie would have to make about 28 sequals to get cali out of the financial hole it is on today
[19:50:46] <jdhNC> does anyone ever use the enable/disable pins on stepper drivers?
[19:50:57] * JT-Shop wanders back to the lazyboy to finalize the relaxation phase
[19:51:16] <frallzor> drink more until you wobble
[19:51:22] <frallzor> then you are relaxed
[19:51:22] <JT-Shop> goodnight guys
[19:51:22] <pfred1> jdhNC I want to implement hold current reduction someday
[19:51:36] <JT-Shop> I don't like being a wobble
[19:51:42] <Tom_itx> where's gracie?
[19:51:46] <jdhNC> pfred1: on these drivers, it just disables.
[19:51:51] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[19:51:57] <Tom_itx> :D
[19:52:13] <pfred1> jdhNC does it reset the state too?
[19:52:29] <pfred1> lots of disables are resets
[19:52:51] <pfred1> which means you end up at the beginning of your step sequence
[19:53:08] <jdhNC> dunno. What does that do for you?
[19:53:16] <pfred1> I'm not sure
[19:53:22] <pfred1> if it'd actually matter
[19:53:52] <pfred1> I think in a perfect world it shouldn't
[19:54:29] <pfred1> a lot of drivers when they microstep aren't in a perfect world though
[19:54:35] <jdhNC> that might involve changing energized coils
[19:54:46] <jdhNC> which wouldn't do much for positioning.
[19:54:52] <pfred1> yeah on initilization I could imagine a bit of a jomp
[19:54:56] <pfred1> jump
[19:55:04] <pfred1> you know as coils grab on t othe rotor
[19:56:08] <pfred1> something that you wouldn't get if you stayed in your sequence
[19:56:17] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Eeeesh, I never relized you can make blackpowder from the local hardware store for under $30
[19:56:33] <jdhNC> any preferred method for connecting stepper leads to wires? solder/shrink-wrap? butt splices? connectors? stagger the splices?
[19:56:51] <pfred1> I'm involved wit ha thread now in the forum where someone has a "motor driver" that really isn't
[19:56:58] <jdhNC> you can buy black powder for less than $30
[19:57:09] <jymmm> jdhNC: any way that won't disconnect under vibration
[19:57:30] <pfred1> I don't like butt splices
[19:57:32] <jdhNC> jymm: none of my wires come off, I was really thinking of aesthetics
[19:57:43] <pfred1> butts are ugly on wires
[19:57:44] <jdhNC> pfred1: I don't either,but I find them humorous
[19:58:02] <jdhNC> when you see one, you have to think... they just didn't have time to do it right.
[19:58:06] <pfred1> me I'd go with solder shrink wrap it ain't that much work
[19:58:24] <pfred1> or skill lots can't solder
[19:58:41] <pfred1> the ability escapes them
[19:58:51] <jdhNC> I have 10lbs of smokeless powder laying around. No black powder though.
[19:59:00] <jymmm> pfred1: LOL, I couldn't solder a copper wire to itself last night using a blowrtouch and flux
[19:59:05] <pfred1> gun cotton?
[19:59:12] <jymmm> pfred1: Noooooooooooo
[19:59:17] <pfred1> open flame is a little tricky
[19:59:32] <pfred1> trick is heat away from where you're soldering let the heat conduct
[19:59:53] <jymmm> pfred1: I did, but for some strange reaosn the sodler just beaded off
[20:00:07] <tjb1> Anyone happen to know of the plug from tyco that will plug into the CPC on hypertherm plasmas?
[20:00:10] <pfred1> hen you didn't have the joint cleaned enough or enough flux
[20:00:14] <jdhNC> contamination
[20:00:25] <jymmm> pfred1: It was filthy as could be =)
[20:00:38] <pfred1> plumbers taught me the nasty rag wipe trick too it helps
[20:00:42] <jymmm> probably oxidized too
[20:00:47] <pfred1> yeah copper has to be bright
[20:01:04] <jymmm> pfred1: I was just being lazy, didn't matter
[20:01:13] <pfred1> gotta get in there with plumbers cloth or something brighten it all up shiny
[20:01:13] <jymmm> just tossed it in the trash
[20:01:28] <pfred1> that is the golden rule of soldering clean
[20:01:37] <jymmm> I was just seeing if I could smash copper wire into itself
[20:02:06] <pfred1> copper has a high melting po9int but you can melt it in solution
[20:02:27] <pfred1> then its melting point lowers
[20:02:27] <jymmm> Yeah, I wasn't trying to melt fuse it, but hammer fuse it together
[20:02:42] <jymmm> like two pieces of clay
[20:02:56] <pfred1> hammer welding means the metal is at its curie point or something
[20:03:01] <jdhNC> I run across wiring in boats that is not solderable all the time. creeping black crud
[20:03:02] <pfred1> you can't do it cold
[20:03:18] <pfred1> jdhNC steel wool
[20:03:19] <jymmm> pfred1: ah, I didn't know that =)
[20:03:28] <jdhNC> won't help
[20:03:48] <pfred1> jdhNC I've soldered some pretty cruddy wires yo ujust gota scrub them
[20:03:55] <pfred1> get in there and really clean clean clean
[20:04:03] <jymmm> I was just plating with copper wire in an artistic fashion is all
[20:04:08] <jymmm> playing
[20:04:12] <pfred1> what is bad is when that crud goes all the way down the wire
[20:04:21] <pfred1> and you get no contact between the strands
[20:04:27] <pfred1> then the whole wire is trash
[20:04:51] <jymmm> pfred1: I was just playing artistic coppersmith =)
[20:04:55] <pfred1> happenss to the ground wires of old multimeters people leave the batteries in
[20:05:13] <pfred1> then the whole meter doesn't work because that wire becomes too resistive
[20:05:36] <pfred1> change the wire meter works
[20:05:45] <jymmm> pfred1: I'm too much of a wuss to make gun cotton =)
[20:06:00] <pfred1> heh it doesn't look too bad
[20:06:07] <pfred1> making nitro is pretty bad though
[20:06:17] <pfred1> get a run away and boom!
[20:06:24] <jymmm> pfred1: I dont like playing with acids is the issue.
[20:06:50] * pfred1 liked acid :)
[20:06:57] <jymmm> pfred1: Even giving someone a jumpstart and my skind burns. I always keep baking soda around.
[20:07:06] <jymmm> skin
[20:07:34] <pfred1> I've worked with guys that are allergic to concrete
[20:07:39] <pfred1> it is just too caustic for them
[20:07:45] <jymmm> ah, yeah.
[20:07:56] <pfred1> yeah i can practically eat the stuff don't bother me
[20:08:20] <pfred1> they get all red and puffy though
[20:08:22] <jymmm> I deal with jumpstarts, but have to keep baking soda on hand. Even have some in the first aidkit
[20:09:04] <pfred1> yeah battery acid never bothered me
[20:09:14] <jymmm> I do have a bottle of sulfuric acid, but only use it once a year or so to clear the drain pipes.
[20:09:35] <jymmm> maybe every two years. Lasts me about 5+ years
[20:09:47] <jymmm> stupid tree roots!
[20:09:59] <pfred1> one nasty thing that did bother me once was we cleaned the floor of a buddy of mine's garage with muratic acid
[20:10:12] <pfred1> and he is like a nut he had like loads of the stuff down all at once
[20:10:21] <pfred1> stuff was burning my lungs breathing it
[20:10:23] <jymmm> ouch
[20:10:37] <pfred1> yeah it was pretty bad yo ushould see what happened to the steel brushes we used
[20:10:47] <pfred1> they went away!
[20:10:51] <jymmm> what brushes? lol
[20:11:06] <pfred1> pretty much they were brand new when we started
[20:11:27] <jymmm> pfred1: FWIW, better than N95 and you can get refills http://www.harborfreight.com/p95-maintenance-free-dual-cartridge-respirator-large-67727-html.html
[20:11:36] <Tom_itx> how do you neutralize it before painting?
[20:11:46] <jymmm> baking soda
[20:11:50] <pfred1> we just flooded it with water
[20:11:53] <Tom_itx> then a water wash?
[20:12:01] <pfred1> all we did was water
[20:12:16] <jymmm> pfred1: well, that's not nuteralizing =)
[20:12:23] <pfred1> he was epoxying his floor just wanted to etch it
[20:12:24] <jymmm> diluting, sure =)
[20:12:34] <pfred1> it came out good
[20:12:39] <Tom_itx> pfred1 yeah i figured
[20:12:49] <pfred1> super old garage floor was totally oil spoiled when we started
[20:13:07] <pfred1> that muratic acid did a number on it and everything else me included
[20:13:33] <pfred1> years later he was like you know I should have just tried to do a little section at a time ...
[20:13:45] <pfred1> I was like yeah Bern
[20:14:30] <pfred1> we'd hold our breath scrub like maniacs then run out to breathe
[20:17:43] <pfred1> I worked at a place that hard chrome plated printing press dies for a little while there was a lot of acid involved doing that
[20:18:07] <pfred1> we kept lids on the vats kept the fumes down
[20:18:34] <pfred1> acid is nothing compared to chrome flakes
[20:18:47] <pfred1> the EPA got wise to us
[20:19:12] <pfred1> they weren't concerned about the acid at all
[20:24:50] <jdhNC> I'm wishing I had been a little less cheap on the stepper drivers and maybe just use p-port instead of mesa (due to space on the panel)
[20:25:42] <pfred1> jdhNC what kind of drives are you running?
[20:25:55] <jymmm> pfred1: And just using TSP works wonders that ppl dont relaize sometimes
[20:26:04] <pfred1> oh check this out Toshiba came out with a new driver
[20:26:14] <jdhNC> keling KL6050
[20:26:18] <pfred1> 4.5 amps 50 volts
[20:26:34] <pfred1> kelings don't look too bad
[20:26:36] <jymmm> pfred1: mid-band compensation?
[20:26:56] <jdhNC> should have spent a little more for the 5056, they are a lot narrower and are supposed to perform better.
[20:27:03] <pfred1> jymmm it is just a driver sequencer
[20:27:09] <jymmm> ah
[20:27:52] <pfred1> it is the upgrade from the 6560
[20:28:04] <pfred1> they reengineered it
[20:28:20] <pfred1> things looks pretty hot to me everyne that has used it has liked it
[20:29:20] <pfred1> it is so new I can't find much info out about it yet and it is hard to get now too Toshiba Thb6064ah
[20:29:56] <pfred1> but I'll probably get them someday and make drivers with them
[20:30:36] <pfred1> freaking hot rods!
[20:31:51] <pfred1> jdhNC the more i mess with steppers the more convinced the performance happens with the lead screws
[20:32:39] <pfred1> you look at machines that perform really well and they have great linear motion screws or belt drives or something
[20:33:19] <pfred1> you can really lose whatever you have in your leads
[20:34:44] <pfred1> with a 10 TPI lead I can only go 1.3 IPM at around 700 RPM
[20:35:34] <pfred1> well IPS
[20:36:12] <pfred1> point being it is really turning around but not moving too far
[20:57:38] <Aero-Tec> this is a ward one for sure
[20:57:40] <Aero-Tec> on my lathe, I move the Z towards the chuck, the X work great, I move
[20:57:42] <Aero-Tec> the Z towards the tail stock, just a bump will do, and the X will only
[20:57:43] <Aero-Tec> go smoothly in one direction, and act up big time in the other dir, now
[20:57:45] <Aero-Tec> here is the weird part, move Z toward chuck, no problem with other Z
[20:57:47] <Aero-Tec> moves towards the chuck, move Z towards tail stock and it move fine the
[20:57:48] <Aero-Tec> first move, but other move toward the tail stock growl.
[20:57:50] <Aero-Tec> when growling it looses steps, and this is a servo system, here is some
[20:57:51] <Aero-Tec> more info, it can move at different speeds when growling, or it will
[20:57:53] <Aero-Tec> growl when moving and then just stop, dro is still moving, but motor is not.
[20:57:55] <Aero-Tec> I have scoped the dir pins they are fine, scoped the step pins, they are
[20:57:56] <Aero-Tec> fine. so computer is fine. so what on earth is going on????
[20:57:58] <Aero-Tec> BTW I swapped out the computer just in case. still not working
[20:58:00] <Aero-Tec> open to suggestions if you have them
[20:58:11] <ReadError> uhmm
[20:58:15] <ReadError> wtf
[20:58:33] <pfred1> Aero-Tec my advise to you is to drink heavily
[20:58:46] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:59:02] <Aero-Tec> what makes you think I have not started already?
[20:59:04] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:59:16] <pfred1> remember whe nteh Germans bombed Pearl harbor?
[20:59:56] <Tom_itx> things properly grounded?
[20:59:58] <Aero-Tec> I wish I could just nuke the thing
[21:00:03] <Tom_itx> motor noise?
[21:00:14] <Aero-Tec> it was working fine for a long time
[21:00:20] <Tom_itx> broken wire
[21:00:21] <pfred1> Aero-Tec look if it was that easy everyone would be doing it
[21:00:22] <Aero-Tec> no changes made
[21:00:47] <Aero-Tec> I used it one day, shut it down for a few days
[21:00:54] <Tom_itx> something is different
[21:01:01] <Aero-Tec> went to use it and this
[21:01:13] <pfred1> Tom_itx it could be sun spots
[21:01:38] <Aero-Tec> been at this for a few days
[21:01:44] <Tom_itx> naw, wasn't there something going on with the moon tonight?
[21:02:01] <pfred1> that was yesterday some johnny cash song
[21:02:03] <Aero-Tec> at first I thought it was just the x acting up
[21:02:21] <Aero-Tec> today I bumped the z the the x worked great
[21:02:42] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It7107ELQvY
[21:03:28] <Aero-Tec> I played around with it some more and found out the z would growl as well
[21:03:32] <pfred1> the moral of the story is be careful with the hot sauce on your tacos!
[21:03:35] * FinboySlick cheers for the man in black.
[21:04:07] <pfred1> he was quite the showman
[21:04:20] <Aero-Tec> would bad grounds only effect one direction of movement?
[21:04:28] <pfred1> sure
[21:04:45] <pfred1> not even bad ground but a non star connection could cause reflections
[21:04:50] <FinboySlick> I used to dislike country music until I learnt more about him.
[21:04:54] <pfred1> ground looping
[21:05:17] <pfred1> FinboySlick there's two kinds of country the good stuff and the crappy kind
[21:05:51] <pfred1> you have to find real rednecks for the good stuff
[21:06:13] <FinboySlick> I prefer the blues-rooted stuff.
[21:06:16] <Aero-Tec> but how could a quick bump on z make x work in both dir and yet another quick z bump in the other dir make it not work?
[21:06:25] <FinboySlick> So Cash works very well for me.
[21:06:41] <FinboySlick> I like The White Stripes for similar reasons.
[21:07:21] <Aero-Tec> BTW it matters not where the z is on the lathe
[21:07:49] <FinboySlick> Aero-Tec: It growls but moves or it doesn't move at all?
[21:07:50] <pfred1> it does kind of sound like signal corruption
[21:07:55] <Aero-Tec> also I tried moving wires to get it to do the same with out moving
[21:08:46] <Aero-Tec> it some times will move, if it moves it could be faster or slower
[21:08:52] <pfred1> I had a car once that had an electrical problem it'd only happen whe nI was driving at night so I let it go for a long time
[21:08:54] <Aero-Tec> or it could move and stop
[21:09:17] <pfred1> once night it really screwed me though so I was like I'm going to find it if i have t otear every wire out
[21:09:38] <FinboySlick> pfred1: Thermal expansion and a loose connector?
[21:09:39] <pfred1> turned out to be a loose alternator terminal
[21:09:41] <Aero-Tec> I scoped it
[21:09:55] <Aero-Tec> the dir and steps are fine
[21:09:56] <pfred1> the nut that helt the hot wire to the stud on the alternator was almost off
[21:10:13] <pfred1> so it kind of floated around when I ran the lights it just couldn't keep up wit hthe charge
[21:10:21] <Aero-Tec> so why only at night?
[21:10:32] <FinboySlick> Aero-Tec: The lights.
[21:10:40] <pfred1> I guess it was flowing enough amps without the headlights going
[21:10:52] <Aero-Tec> ok
[21:10:59] <pfred1> just contacting on the edge of the ring like it was
[21:11:37] <pfred1> yeah it was spooky I'd have to drive in the dark without my headlights on or it didn't have enough volts to fire the ignition
[21:11:53] <Aero-Tec> the lathe worked for years
[21:12:06] <Aero-Tec> it was fine when I last used it
[21:12:08] <pfred1> so did the car
[21:12:49] <pfred1> thing is some stuff you just have to check everything to find one thing
[21:13:07] <pfred1> stuff that even seems OK
[21:15:41] <Aero-Tec> I hate it when things do not work
[21:15:58] <pfred1> I love it when i make stuff work again
[21:16:12] <Aero-Tec> should be a law against things like this.........LOL
[21:16:38] <pfred1> couple weeks ago some jerk tried to stick me with a "burnt out" bench grinder the joke was on him though when I hit the reset button it and it ran again
[21:16:41] <Aero-Tec> I like to make things
[21:17:26] <Aero-Tec> will have to go back and start testing some more
[21:17:42] <pfred1> see he even wrote works on the price tag http://i.imgur.com/ieMSq.jpg
[21:17:54] <pfred1> but when I plugged it in sure enough it didn't
[21:18:11] <Aero-Tec> hello skunk
[21:18:48] <pfred1> it works now http://i.imgur.com/nj6Lj.jpg
[21:19:05] <pfred1> looks better too I think
[21:19:53] <Aero-Tec> peerrrdy
[21:20:04] <pfred1> not bad for $5
[21:20:11] <Aero-Tec> you got it looking real good
[21:20:25] <Aero-Tec> 1/2 HP?
[21:20:29] <pfred1> yeah
[21:20:46] <FinboySlick> The sacred economic duty of producing wealth by adding value to an object.
[21:20:47] <pfred1> i have a buffing mop on it I hate having to mount one just to use it
[21:20:57] <FinboySlick> Praise the pfred1.
[21:21:21] <Aero-Tec> back to fixing the lathe
[21:21:36] <pfred1> you probably just have one wonky wire
[21:21:46] <Aero-Tec> just wait the gov will find a way to tax that
[21:22:08] <Aero-Tec> took a $5 item and made it worth $50
[21:22:20] <FinboySlick> That's called VAT, I think.
[21:22:22] <pfred1> heh the gov they just waste tax money I heard about these $17.000 oil drip pans in helicopters the other day
[21:22:27] <FinboySlick> They have it all over europe ;)
[21:22:33] <Aero-Tec> pay up, you just made a buck and the man wants his share
[21:22:38] <pfred1> I really want to see what a $17,000 dollar drip pan looks like
[21:23:22] <FinboySlick> pfred1: It's like an ordinary drip pan, but it's sold by a military contractor.
[21:23:46] <pfred1> FinboySlick on that dontates religiously to a particular congressman
[21:23:51] <pfred1> one even
[21:24:00] <Aero-Tec> you forgot the sub standard part
[21:24:21] <FinboySlick> I'm just encouraged that people are getting more and more aware of the excesses.
[21:24:24] <Aero-Tec> a ordinary one would be a up grade
[21:24:32] <pfred1> the funniest part was this other manufacturer who makes $2,500 drip pans getting all irate over it too
[21:24:40] <FinboySlick> Because in the end, it all comes down to the people keeping the govt in check.
[21:24:48] <Aero-Tec> you pay extra for the sub standard ones
[21:25:10] <pfred1> as if any drip pan could even be worth $2,500
[21:25:28] <pfred1> he was like that is money I could be stealing!
[21:27:11] <pfred1> FinboySlick what it really comes down to is it is your moral obiligaiton to cheat on your taxes
[21:27:25] <pfred1> don't give it to them to steal in the first place!
[21:28:05] <FinboySlick> Well, I certainly wouldn't condemn civil disobedience, but I think it falls short of solving the problem.
[21:28:29] <pfred1> as long as it isn't my money it ain't my problem :)
[21:28:56] <FinboySlick> "The government has no control over honest men, so it must focus on making as many of them criminal as possible."
[21:29:21] <FinboySlick> As such, that's playing their game.
[21:29:50] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zErP5QoMA3w
[21:30:12] <FinboySlick> We're getting off topic however. But it's a slow night so I hope people didn't mind too much.
[21:30:46] <pfred1> decentralizing production is on topic for CNC
[21:31:03] <Aero-Tec> here is a joke on the subject
[21:31:08] <Aero-Tec> Enclosed and/or attached, you will find my 2011 tax return showing that I owe $3,407.00 in taxes.
[21:31:09] <Aero-Tec>
[21:31:11] <Aero-Tec> Please note the attached article from the Toronto Globe and Mail; dated 12 November, wherein you will see the Canadian Department of National Defense is paying $171.50 per hammer and Fisheries and Oceans Canada has paid $600.00 per toilet seat for its ice breakers.
[21:31:12] <Aero-Tec> As payment, I am enclosing four (4) toilet seats (valued @ $2,400) and six (6) hammers valued @ $1,029), which I secured at Canadian Tire, bringing my total remittance to $3,429.00.
[21:31:14] <Aero-Tec> Pl ease apply the overpayment of $22.00 to next year's tax bill or a roll of toilet paper.
[21:31:16] <Aero-Tec> It has been a pleasure to pay my tax bill this year, and I look forward to paying it again next year.
[21:32:13] <FinboySlick> Aero-Tec: That's delightful.
[21:32:19] <FinboySlick> I think I'll try next year.
[21:33:30] <pfred1> the USA should outsource defense to canada they get stuff cheaper than we do
[21:33:41] <Aero-Tec> lol
[21:33:49] <Aero-Tec> I live in Canada
[21:33:57] <Aero-Tec> west coast
[21:34:12] * FinboySlick does the secret Canadian handshake with Aero-Tec.
[21:34:18] <FinboySlick> I'm far east.
[21:34:18] <pfred1> we pay way more for hammers and toilet seats
[21:35:16] <Aero-Tec> make for even cheaper tax paying using this system
[21:35:31] <Aero-Tec> you get more bang for the buck
[21:35:55] <pfred1> they doubled the toll on the turnpike here
[21:36:03] <pfred1> just doubled it
[21:40:20] <ReadError> i need a new drill press
[21:40:28] <ReadError> i think the one i have now oscillates too much
[21:40:38] <pfred1> repack the bearings
[21:40:41] <ReadError> its not super tight and accurate that im going for
[21:40:48] <ReadError> pfred1, it was a cheap 100$ one
[21:40:54] <ReadError> ide rather spend 3-400
[21:40:55] <pfred1> all the more reason
[21:40:57] <ReadError> get something nicer
[21:41:20] <archivist> is it a badly ground drill bit causing your problem
[21:41:20] <pfred1> link belts can help sometimes too
[21:41:23] <ReadError> im a young buck still building up a nice tool collection
[21:41:41] <pfred1> yeah twist drills are never very accurate to begin with that is why they make reamers
[21:41:44] <ReadError> i havnt been doing this for years like all of you ':)
[21:42:31] <pfred1> then after reamers you get into center grinding then honing
[21:42:51] <ReadError> my tooling is pretty limited
[21:43:00] <ReadError> i got a nice hand drill though!
[21:43:04] <ReadError> hitachi !
[21:43:11] <ReadError> pretty light and very strong
[21:43:14] <archivist> and what were you drilling, brass with a normal twist bit will be a fight
[21:43:14] <Aero-Tec> one thing nice about getting older, you have lots of the toy you dreamed about when your were younger
[21:43:17] <ReadError> 18v lipo
[21:43:19] <pfred1> I got a couple makitas one is pretty nice
[21:43:32] <pfred1> oh cordless?
[21:43:36] <ReadError> yea
[21:43:40] <ReadError> i got a corded one too
[21:43:49] <ReadError> but the cordless is my baby
[21:43:59] <pfred1> archivist I just drilled some brass and it sucked!
[21:44:08] <ReadError> whats a good brand
[21:44:13] <ReadError> grizzly? jet? delta
[21:44:40] <Aero-Tec> if I find the problem I will post it here
[21:44:47] <pfred1> archivist http://www.instructables.com/id/Brass-Hammer-Build/
[21:44:56] <archivist> pfred1, take the rake off the cutting edge, store in the brass drills box :)
[21:44:58] <Aero-Tec> or should I say when I find the problem
[21:45:19] <pfred1> archivist I don't work with brass too much
[21:45:20] <Aero-Tec> got to have a positive outlook here
[21:45:32] <pfred1> mostly mild steel
[21:46:13] <ReadError> what makes a hammer 'deadblow' ?
[21:46:20] <pfred1> lead shot
[21:46:29] <ReadError> i want a delrin hammer
[21:46:35] <pfred1> they're usually filled with that maybe some oil too
[21:46:44] <ReadError> so they dont rebound ?
[21:46:50] <pfred1> not much
[21:47:34] <pfred1> I use mine mostly for putting paint can lids back on they kick ass doing that
[21:47:49] <ReadError> ah yea
[21:48:34] <pfred1> I'm just sayin that is the best use I ever found for a dead blow hammer
[21:48:41] <archivist> I look at the hammer caddy and the qty of hammers....does everything look like a nail to you?
[21:48:56] <pfred1> archivist that's just the overflow
[21:49:18] <pfred1> I keep the hammer I actually use in holders here and there where i use them
[21:49:27] <pfred1> hammers
[21:50:17] <pfred1> I buy used tools and when I see something I don't have I buy it I see a lot of strange stuff
[21:50:22] <ReadError> whats the best way to polish aluminum ?
[21:50:37] <ReadError> also, how much is an inexpensive anodizing setup?
[21:50:56] <pfred1> but one thing i never run across is brass hammers
[21:51:01] <archivist> depends if it being flat at the end of polishing is important
[21:51:07] <pfred1> they just don't come up on the used market
[21:53:20] <pfred1> I don't like working with aluminum because I don't like welding aluminum
[21:53:23] <archivist> fast way but wont be flat, buffing machine, slow way, start with a course grit paper and work up to fine
[21:53:59] <pfred1> I don't weld much when I metal work but I always like to have the option
[21:55:09] <pfred1> and I've had some bad luck at times welding aluminum so much I avoid it anymore
[21:56:02] <pfred1> stuff sure is easy to cast though go figure
[21:56:43] <pfred1> aluminum is really pretty when it is molten
[22:01:07] <ReadError> so a brass hammer wont mar the metal?
[22:01:28] <pfred1> I wouldn't say it wouldn't mar it at all but it should mar less
[22:02:06] <pfred1> next I want to make a lead hammer
[22:02:42] <pfred1> I got a bunch of lead I'm thinking of pouring some into a piece of copper pipe with some hanging out the end
[22:03:12] <pfred1> I thought of that after I made the brass hammer
[22:05:53] <ReadError> you will have to change your nick to "MadHatter"
[22:06:08] <pfred1> no that is mercury poisioning
[22:07:08] <pfred1> lead just makes kids stupid
[22:07:40] <pfred1> but I figure if they're eating lead they couldn't have been too bright to begin with
[22:07:53] <ReadError> ehh
[22:07:59] <ReadError> lead makes you go batshit insane too
[22:08:13] <FinboySlick> A lot of metals do that.
[22:08:21] <pfred1> well with hat makers it was working with mercury that did them in
[22:08:27] <FinboySlick> Aluminium isn't all that much better.
[22:08:39] <pfred1> aluminum makes old people stupid
[22:09:01] <FinboySlick> I think it makes me stupid too... I never get good results trying to machine it ;)
[22:09:35] <pfred1> machining aluminum is easy
[22:09:47] <pfred1> just run real fast with real sharp tools
[22:10:01] <FinboySlick> And good chip evacuation, I know.
[22:10:11] <FinboySlick> I still fail.
[22:10:12] <tjb1> Learn something everyday, did not know you could suck a vacuum through mdf and hold parts like that...
[22:10:18] <pfred1> yeah free machining
[22:10:37] <Tom_itx> tjb1 they probably drill pinholes in it too
[22:11:07] <pfred1> yeah it may only be MDF but medium is still pretty dense
[22:11:59] <FinboySlick> If one doesn't want to do the whole table though, are there some sort of suction-clamps?
[22:12:22] <tjb1> Thats pretty damn cool
[22:12:45] <pfred1> I loved the magnetic clamps on surface grinders
[22:12:52] <pfred1> things really held
[22:13:11] <tjb1> What happens when the power goes out using an electro magnet chuck?
[22:13:42] <pfred1> beats me it never happened
[22:13:58] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, they generally use a gasket around the suction area
[22:13:59] <pfred1> I've seen magnetic clamps not hold too
[22:14:10] <pfred1> when you try to take too big a bite
[22:14:14] <tjb1> Ive always wondered that while using one
[22:14:22] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, especially if flood coolant is used
[22:14:30] <tjb1> Not a fan of doing surface grinding manually though
[22:14:48] <pfred1> heh I called it bening the band master
[22:14:53] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: That's what I assumed, but wouldn't the compressibility of the magnet make leveling the part with the table difficult?
[22:14:56] <Tom_itx> tjb1, the workpiece flys across the room
[22:15:20] <tjb1> I thought so :)
[22:15:22] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick this for suction clamps
[22:15:24] <FinboySlick> Gah, compressibility of the *gasket*
[22:15:31] <Tom_itx> soft neoprene
[22:15:45] <tjb1> I can imagine one of the instructors e-stopping the shop and you hear about 5 booms.
[22:17:48] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: So neoprene compresses evenly?
[22:18:14] <tjb1> Oh how I wish I had enough to buy the 85 when I got the powermax 45… http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z429/tuffjarhed/2012-03-02_21-43-00_24.jpg
[22:18:46] <pfred1> they make foam in big buns then lathe it into sheets
[22:19:48] <tjb1> anyone have a powermax?
[22:19:52] <pfred1> also all foam starts out as closed cell they just etch closed cell with acid to make open cell
[22:22:26] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, you mill a slot for the gasket to fit in and let it stick out just enough to seal
[22:22:51] <Tom_itx> then you have metal to metal contact with your workpiece and fixture
[22:23:40] <FinboySlick> OK, so the negative pressure wouldn't cause the gasket to try and squeeze its way between the rest and the part?
[22:23:50] <FinboySlick> (and lift it somewhat)
[22:24:14] <Tom_itx> no
[22:24:20] <Tom_itx> not if it's done right
[22:24:50] <Tom_itx> at the same time the part is sucked down on the gasket holding it in place
[22:25:23] <Tom_itx> it has it's place but there are other better ways to hold parts
[22:25:36] <Tom_itx> we used it on long thin parts with large surface area
[22:26:01] <FinboySlick> I'm told even dual-sided tape can do quite well.
[22:26:05] <pfred1> I could see it being good there
[22:26:12] <Tom_itx> yes i use double sided tape
[22:26:17] <pfred1> heck krazy glue is great
[22:26:29] <pfred1> comes apart with acetone
[22:26:31] <Tom_itx> harder to remove
[22:26:58] <Tom_itx> probably not suitable for production
[22:27:18] <pfred1> yeah wouldn't want to be gluing then ungluing stuff
[22:27:26] <Tom_itx> after all cnc is about production
[22:27:29] <FinboySlick> I really need to enclose my mill so I can do some real work without messing up the house ;)
[22:27:55] <pfred1> why is your mill in your house?
[22:28:07] <Connor1> What g-code would I use to make a circle, .480 diam, with a Flats (.440" at the flats) .125" dia endmill
[22:28:11] <tjb1> pfred1: why not? :P
[22:28:13] <FinboySlick> Because I don't want it to rust outside :P
[22:28:21] <pfred1> tjb1 messy
[22:28:33] <Tom_itx> mine is in a box: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/milling1.jpg
[22:28:39] <pfred1> FinboySlick I keep mine in my garage
[22:28:59] <Tom_itx> with a plexi front and lid
[22:28:59] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: I actually have one of those.
[22:29:11] <FinboySlick> Yours is better kept than mine.
[22:29:27] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/sherline_files/sherline_index.php
[22:29:41] <pfred1> I've had my mill for a good 25 years now
[22:29:52] <Tom_itx> i've probably had that about the same
[22:30:05] <ReadError> Tom_itx
[22:30:06] <ReadError> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_blue_full_kit_desc.jpg
[22:30:08] <jdhNC> connor: think anything bad will happen if I hook my c41 gnd/+v to the controller backwards?
[22:30:09] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: Is that your only mill? I sort of assumed you had all kinds of big things.
[22:30:09] <Tom_itx> at least 20
[22:30:10] <ReadError> how did you do the paint?
[22:30:23] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick i used to program and run the big ones
[22:30:34] <Tom_itx> ReadError heh
[22:30:35] <Connor_CNC> jdhNC: No Clue. Why, did you? :)
[22:30:37] <Tom_itx> stencil
[22:30:55] <jdhNC> not yet, it's 50/50 now unless I take the front/back off
[22:31:22] <Connor_CNC> I don't think I would risk it.
[22:31:25] <Tom_itx> ReadError, err silkscreeen
[22:31:51] <Connor_CNC> I don't recall if it has a diode, or if the rectifier can handle reverse polarity.
[22:31:54] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/lid_cutout1.jpg
[22:32:08] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/lid_cutout2.jpg
[22:32:11] <jdhNC> connor: what are your x/y scales?
[22:32:20] <Connor_CNC> Dang it, I don't want to have to CAD a freaking circle with flats.
[22:32:20] <pfred1> diodes are rectifiers
[22:32:39] <Connor_CNC> not rectifier.. I meant regulator.
[22:32:45] <jdhNC> connor: draw the flat, then cut a circle around it.
[22:32:59] <pfred1> some diodes can regulate too zener diodes
[22:33:13] <jdhNC> I could draw it/cam it faster than I can remember how g2/g3 work
[22:33:25] <pfred1> they are what most voltage regulators use as reference voltage
[22:34:01] <Connor_CNC> 16000 is the scale.
[22:34:04] * pfred1 is just filled with useless electronics info :)
[22:34:08] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick i just play nowdays, my friend had a large shopfull of cnc's
[22:34:21] <Tom_itx> i did alot of programing and ran a few for him
[22:34:31] <Connor_CNC> okay.. heading into the office to cam out a freaking circle with flats.. :(
[22:34:38] <jdhNC> wonder what the pitch of this Z ballscrew is. 8000 seems to be almost perfectly half
[22:34:48] <pfred1> I made one of those for a porter cable circular saw
[22:35:19] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, http://www.clearwaterengineering.com/
[22:35:26] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: I'm sure you get some neat stuff done even on that little sherline.
[22:35:28] <jdhNC> except my Z moves when I move the Y axis.
[22:35:37] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, http://www.clearwaterengineering.com/gallery.php
[22:35:44] <Tom_itx> that's the type of stuff we made
[22:35:48] <Connor> I'll have to look.. I think the Z is 12 TPI or 6TPI.. I can't remeber.
[22:36:11] <Tom_itx> i'm sure i programmed some of those
[22:36:37] <jdhNC> connor: my Z is the metric ball screw
[22:36:42] <Connor> Oh.
[22:37:01] <Connor> Then, it's either 5mm or 10mm per twist.
[22:37:13] <pfred1> metric is just a fad it'll pass
[22:37:20] <Connor> you get a 2005 or 2010 ?
[22:37:29] <jdhNC> 5 I think
[22:37:37] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, he started out in his garage
[22:38:21] <FinboySlick> Admirable.
[22:38:30] <Connor> okay, 5.08 TPI
[22:38:41] <pfred1> kansas? why I thought there was nothing in Kansas but corn
[22:38:51] <Tom_itx> no, corn is in iowa
[22:38:56] <Tom_itx> we have wheat
[22:39:01] <Tom_itx> and airplanes
[22:39:02] <pfred1> oh
[22:39:06] <pfred1> we mix it up here
[22:39:15] <pfred1> we grow wheat and corn
[22:39:17] <Tom_itx> used to be alot more than there is now
[22:39:33] <Tom_itx> like agricultural equipment
[22:39:38] <Tom_itx> case, etc
[22:39:39] <pfred1> oh and soy beans I haven't seen many soy beans though this year
[22:39:42] <FinboySlick> From a CAD perspective, they're all very interesting parts. Definitely the kind of stuff my instructor would have us do.
[22:40:03] <Tom_itx> FinboySlick, nothing is flat on many of those
[22:40:17] <Tom_itx> that's what you get with airplane parts :)
[22:40:19] <FinboySlick> Hehe, more opportunity for me to get an A+
[22:40:43] <FinboySlick> I'm sad to admit that it was my only university A+ though.
[22:41:45] <pfred1> Tom_itx your friend make $17,000 oil drip pans?
[22:42:01] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[22:42:13] <pfred1> Tom_itx he could if he dontated to the right congressperson
[22:42:58] <pfred1> I'm still dying to see one of these drip pans
[22:43:22] <FinboySlick> pfred1: They may only exist on invoices.
[22:43:39] <pfred1> no supposedly there is one in every apache helicopter
[22:44:03] <pfred1> they actually physically exist
[22:44:36] <FinboySlick> Ah, your best chance is to ask the russians then. Probably your easiest bet on getting plans for an Apache ;)
[22:45:12] <pfred1> I think when they shot bin laden they left them helo parts on purpose
[22:45:27] <pfred1> just to set the chinese back 10 years
[22:46:02] <FinboySlick> I'm surprised he was still alive. What he got treated for in Dubai in 2002 was not something you live long with.
[22:46:23] <pfred1> magic johnson is still alive all it takes is money
[22:46:39] <FinboySlick> Well, he definitely had that.
[22:47:08] <pfred1> last time I saw magic he looked good for a person who has had aids for about 10 years
[23:04:40] <tjb1> Can you order direct from 80/20 or do you have to go through a distributor?
[23:05:47] <tjb1> Got a quote of around $400 for the extrusions I needed and $150 for shipping, only 2 hours away so I thought I would just go pick the stuff up…well they don't have them…they get shipped direct from 80/20 in Indiana. So why the hell do I need to deal with a distributor if they don't have anything!?
[23:06:25] <djdelorie> doesn't 8020 custom cut and mill their stuff too?
[23:06:40] <tjb1> Not sure
[23:06:42] <djdelorie> I don't see how a distributor could do that
[23:06:51] <tjb1> I just need it cut to length
[23:07:09] <tjb1> Ill flip if the delivery company bends it...
[23:07:15] <tjb1> Ive worked for conway and I know how they handle stuff
[23:07:44] <tjb1> A 60 dock building is full by 1am
[23:08:04] <tjb1> and all freight needs to be moved in about 3 hours
[23:09:14] <tjb1> All go go go go and if something gets damaged they just fill a paper out
[23:09:55] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't let conway ship anything for me
[23:09:56] <Tom_itx> ever
[23:10:17] <tjb1> Its mostly the morons that work at the warehouses
[23:10:28] <tjb1> Some guy stacked a toro lawnmower on top of another
[23:10:41] <Tom_itx> they tried charging me double shipping once and the shipper had already paid the freight
[23:11:05] <tjb1> The crate was barely strong enough to support itself let alone another lawn mower and by the time it got to the warehouse I was at it had collapsed and was impossible to pick the top one off the bottom
[23:11:52] <tjb1> R&L came friday to deliver the tig welder
[23:12:23] <tjb1> Not too impressed with them, called and they said it was coming on a trailer with a lift gate. Not only did it not have a lift gate, the driver didn't even have a damn pallet jack
[23:14:13] <tjb1> Plus they sent a 48' trailer to do residential deliveries and he was only using about 12' of the trailer