#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-16

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[01:52:59] <alex4nder> yoh
[02:06:58] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:56:57] <Tom_itx> Valen, yes they are dented
[03:57:06] <Tom_itx> i don't know why but that's how they are
[07:56:10] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/135117
[08:21:27] * Jymmm lol @ Reverend skunkworks
[08:22:05] <Jymmm> or should that be eVangelist skunkworks
[08:22:39] <JT-Shop> I hate those pages you can see them unless you register
[08:23:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's skunkworks marketing linuxcnc on the mach forum
[08:24:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: How long did it take for your fuse to arrive once ordered?
[08:24:48] <JT-Shop> 2 minutes
[08:25:02] <Jymmm> you picked up locally?
[08:25:46] <JT-Shop> well kinda I drove to TN to pick up the cannon and bought the fuse at the same time
[08:26:09] <Jymmm> Ah, I thought you ordered it online since you had links
[08:26:44] <JT-Shop> I was just googling them for you
[08:26:49] <Jymmm> I ordered some from pyrodirect.com but they only ship via parcel post (ground) and I have no idea how long that takes these days.
[08:27:12] <JT-Shop> where are they?
[08:27:22] <Jymmm> well not only, but cheapest
[08:27:25] <Jymmm> MN I think
[08:27:44] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: I don't think the mach yahoo group is 'closed' - I think anyone can brows the messages.
[08:28:01] <JT-Shop> shouldn't take long for it to cross Donner pass
[08:28:17] <Jymmm> sorry they are in PA
[08:28:25] <JT-Shop> hmm showed up this time skunkworks
[08:29:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ATF is being annoying, now I'm trying to get around regulations =)
[08:29:47] <skunkworks> Jymmm: I like to think of it as 'picking the right tool for th job'. (just happens that linuxcnc is usually the right tool for everything...)
[08:29:59] <JT-Shop> :-)
[08:30:33] <Jymmm> lol
[08:31:29] <skunkworks> heck - I think we are going to use it to run the saw mill...
[08:31:42] <Jymmm> Mach?
[08:31:45] <skunkworks> I guess it is a 'mill'
[08:32:25] <skunkworks> heh
[08:32:58] <skunkworks> dad just got some 2 inch X .043 1tpi blades that should be nice to try.
[08:33:19] <skunkworks> 17ft
[08:37:49] <skunkworks> sounds like mach4 will do everything everyone wants. ;)
[08:40:16] <Jymmm> What's a good machinable electrically isolated material that can withstand 700F ?
[08:48:01] <cpresser> Jymmm: PTFE
[08:48:43] <Jymmm> cpresser: Not that high temp, can only handle around 450F before outgassing
[08:49:16] <skunkworks> what is the max temp of rulon?
[08:50:20] <Jymmm> 550F
[08:50:51] <Jymmm> But at 550F is when it starts outgassing
[08:52:22] <Jymmm> PTFE really is nasty shit when heated
[08:52:46] <Jymmm> and gets to 600F when cooking bacon in a coated frying pan
[08:52:55] <Jymmm> or was it 575F
[08:56:41] <Jymmm> what is the generic name for Formica?
[08:57:34] <cpresser> even PBI is only usable up to 310C
[08:57:49] <Jymmm> PBI ?
[08:58:34] <cpresser> Polybenzimidazol
[08:58:40] <cpresser> (copy paste^^)
[08:59:01] <cpresser> you may buy it as 'celazole' in europe
[09:02:26] <Jymmm> Well crap, I found my one sample of paper Phenolic which will work to around 1500F, but man this stuff is hard to cut/work with
[09:02:37] <cpresser> but soapstone might do :)
[09:02:52] <cpresser> its easy to cut and will withstand 800Celsius
[09:03:31] <Jymmm> Hmmm, that's an idea. could always glues it to a substrait to help prevent cracking
[09:04:08] <Jymmm> and I just happen to have some soapstone markers around here
[09:04:16] <Jymmm> thanks!
[09:04:21] <cpresser> most likely polymers wont to in this temperature range. so you need to go 'natural'
[09:04:55] <Jymmm> the Phenolic will work, but a bitch to machine
[09:05:29] <Jymmm> and STINKS liek nothing you've ever smelled
[09:06:31] <Jymmm> I wonder where I could find thin 1/8" soapstone
[09:06:31] <cpresser> thats the stuff used for circuit boards?
[09:06:56] <Jymmm> I believe so, but what I have is 1/8" thick
[09:08:23] <Jymmm> and I've taken a torch to it for 10m and it just starts to yawn at that point
[09:09:47] <Jymmm> I like the soapstone idea though. I also have soem formica, but I can't find the temp ratings and the MSDS says "Not Applicable"
[09:13:38] <Jymmm> Ok, Formica can dela with 356F/180C for short periods of dry heat
[09:13:43] <Jymmm> deal
[09:14:38] <Jymmm> Max temp up to 8 hours is 100C
[09:21:11] <Jymmm> cpresser: Thanks for the soapstone idea! I just need to see what glue/adhesive will let me glue a substraite to it =)
[09:21:45] <SolarNRG> Hi guys
[09:21:53] <SolarNRG> Have any of you ever heard of Open Source Ecology?
[09:22:03] <SolarNRG> I only learned of its existence last night, I'm very impressed with ti
[09:22:12] <jdhNC> is that where RMS composts his hair?
[09:22:12] <SolarNRG> They have open source designs for everything
[09:22:21] <jdhNC> guess not.
[09:22:27] <SolarNRG> http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Multimachine/Manufacturing_Instructions
[09:22:45] <SolarNRG> They have modular designs for everything to make a home or farm self sustainable
[09:22:47] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I thought hair can last like 1000's of years in tombs
[09:22:50] <SolarNRG> Even an open source CNC machine!
[09:23:05] <SolarNRG> Jymm, yes if its properly mummified
[09:23:13] <jdhNC> Jymm: best I could come up with quickly.
[09:23:23] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Heh =)
[09:23:39] <Jymmm> SolarNRG: N, I don't thinkmummified even
[09:27:34] <SolarNRG> It basically says you can make a multimachine from a spindle, lathe, motor and concrete!
[09:28:08] <Jymmm> Just because you can, doesn't always mean that you should.
[09:28:46] <SolarNRG> Jymm, does that mean this whole site is bollocks and I should stop reading?
[09:29:32] <Jymmm> Perhapse, depends if you believe everything you read on the internet.
[09:30:19] <SolarNRG> But these guys have a video of their own tractor, brick maker, wire maker, CNC torch table, aluminium foundry in this farm near Kansas City
[09:30:54] <SolarNRG> It was very inspirational, especially about how we buy equipment that fails when there are 100 year old techs that last a lifetime
[09:31:14] <SolarNRG> They're saying our current way of life isn't sustainable anymore
[09:31:49] <SolarNRG> And they're showing with this sort of lego-brick modular technology anyone can be their own factory, farmer and housebuilder rolled into one
[09:32:48] <SolarNRG> Really I found this video to be what I considered to be the answer I've been looking for for a long time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPQgimLxjZw
[09:33:02] <jdhNC> cool, le's all move to communes in kansas and save the wrold!
[09:33:27] <SolarNRG> You don't have to move! Their website http://opensourceecology.org/ has all their open source instructions on how to make all of this with a real world tech tree!
[09:33:38] <jdhNC> but, more importantly, my enclosure is out for delivery.
[09:33:41] <Jymmm> jdhNC: You can hit KS, I'll hit HI instead =)
[09:34:23] <SolarNRG> I think you guys with your CNC machines could make most of this stuff quite easily!
[09:34:45] <jdhNC> I could conceivably walk to .ks, good luck getting to .hi with a concrete lathe.
[09:35:10] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Hey, remember they did have concrete barges
[09:35:19] <SolarNRG> And ships!
[09:35:23] <SolarNRG> During ww2
[09:35:53] <jdhNC> they built some here
[09:36:16] <SolarNRG> They sailed to Britain to give supplies! There are still some in the Naval museum!
[09:37:42] <JT-Shop> the beast is alive!
[09:37:53] <Jymmm> the dog?
[09:38:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: so, you have shitty power or ???
[09:39:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you getting 200+IPM now?
[09:40:56] <jdhNC> I had planned on using panel mount connectors for all wires penetrating the enclosure, but this one already has 12 through-holes with glands.
[09:42:12] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Could still use in-line connectors withn the enclsoure for easy troubleshooting
[09:43:59] <jdhNC> http://d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/82000055/images/m17n029-2.jpg
[09:44:05] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Just be sure they are locking connectors, or use a cbale zip of some sort.
[09:44:18] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I just got it to run so far
[09:44:20] <jdhNC> I could take that inset plate out and put all the connectors on it.
[09:44:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, it's a start =) Now to see how much that gen will cost to buy =)
[09:45:00] <Jymmm> jdhNC: on the bottom?
[09:45:12] <jdhNC> yes.
[09:45:35] <Jymmm> jdhNC: looks doable =)
[09:45:56] <jdhNC> I was thinking about mounting the monitor on the front. Not sure what to do with a KB/mouse though.
[09:46:13] <Jymmm> bluetooth?
[09:46:33] <Jymmm> but a pita when the batterys die
[09:46:41] <Jymmm> imo
[09:46:45] <jdhNC> guess I'll need panel mount USB also
[09:47:02] <jdhNC> bluetooth is generally a PITA no matter what.
[09:47:17] <Jymmm> jdhNC: use a mobo header and one of those back panel connectors
[09:47:21] <jdhNC> why? didn't you get a new lens?
[09:47:24] <jdhNC> <urk>
[09:47:52] <jdhNC> I might have one from the case I destroyed to use as the enclosure.
[09:48:01] <Jymmm> jdhNC: like this http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ut6azHh9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
[09:48:23] <Jymmm> http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/08d/motherboard-cable-port-usb-rear-panel-bracket-27905n.jpg
[09:48:53] <mrsun> hmm, how to get around the metric threading half nut engagement when ahving a imperial leadscrew? :/ (got the 100/127T combo to convert)
[09:49:10] <jdhNC> I thnk I have one that went to the front of the computer case.
[09:49:33] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Just make sure it's not the snap-in kind
[09:50:42] <jdhNC> anyone have vector drawings of DB9/25 or gcode?
[09:51:10] <Jymmm> cradek: does
[09:51:56] <jdhNC> mrsun: I probably don't know the answer, but I have no idea what you asked.
[09:52:19] <mrsun> jdhNC, when having a imperial leadscrew and cutting metric threads, aparently a thread dial is useless
[09:52:26] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/01166390211
[09:52:27] <mrsun> but i want to be able to thread to a sholder :/
[09:52:37] <mrsun> and thus i ahve to disengage the half nut on the lathe
[09:52:41] <cradek> you can't disengage the nut until you're done
[09:52:49] <jdhNC> cradek: thanks!
[09:53:12] <mrsun> thinking of scrapping the gears and put an encoder on the spindle and a stepper on the leadscrew =)
[09:53:20] <mrsun> with simple interface, enter pitch and thread length
[09:53:23] <mrsun> :P
[09:54:23] <mrsun> do not need to modify almost anything to do it ... problem is that the leadscrew is very worn :P
[09:56:06] <mrsun> http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/images/pfeed-1.jpg <-- yes, just like that! =)
[09:56:17] <mrsun> tho have no extra stepper driver that can drive a stepper strong enough :(
[09:58:22] <mrsun> hell i think im going to do that, got an extra i guess quite powerfull stepper laying around, but like i said .. need a driver but that can be bought =) no more gear changes and i should be able to do quite accurate work :P
[09:59:48] <jdhNC> how big of driver?
[10:00:36] <mrsun> not very big, 3A/phase not realy a biggie :P
[10:01:00] <mrsun> only got a 1.8A laying around, tho i have full step drivers that can deliver alot more, but at very low voltages
[10:01:05] <mrsun> (non chopping)
[10:04:12] <mrsun> tho was thinking of controlling it with arduino or pinguino or something, but athw ould require interpolation, how many steps to take beween the spindles encoder pulses
[10:08:08] <mrsun> or how does emc do it ?
[10:08:14] <mrsun> does it do it like that ?
[10:11:31] <Jymmm> "A nice murder, that should cheer you up!"
[10:23:32] <frallzor> Yello, short Q. This G-code generated via a PP for HSMworks that supposedly is a "generic EMC PP" http://pastebin.com/Ww2HZtHJ is ut just me or does it look odd?
[10:23:41] <frallzor> *is it
[10:28:54] <jdhNC> looks ok to me, I don't like N numbers though.
[10:30:32] <frallzor> thats one of the oddities
[10:30:39] <frallzor> will paste another snippet of code
[10:30:57] <jdhNC> N isn't really odd, just not needed.
[10:31:18] <frallzor> well my version of emc hates the o3 for example
[10:31:27] <jthornton> the first line will fail
[10:31:53] <frallzor> http://pastebin.com/XQ7Pjtti how about this then?
[10:31:56] <jdhNC> didn't see that... wonder what it was supposed to do.
[10:32:06] <frallzor> some of the first lines there fail instantly too
[10:32:17] <cradek> yeah other than line 2 it's probably fine
[10:32:20] <jthornton> some controllers have a file number at the start
[10:33:01] <frallzor> but its made with a EMC PP, so why put stuff in that cant be read?
[10:33:16] <jdhNC> what generated it?
[10:33:21] <frallzor> HSMworks
[10:33:31] <cradek> obviously the PP is slightly wrong
[10:34:55] <jthornton> line 10 will also be interesting as it does not have a G43
[10:35:37] <Jymmm> thanks cradek
[10:35:54] <frallzor> seems like a very odd PP then
[10:35:58] <cradek> the : in a few places is wrong
[10:36:05] <cradek> agree it needs G43
[10:36:06] <jdhNC> are you sure it said EMC?
[10:36:21] <cradek> I think M26 isn't a valid code
[10:36:27] <frallzor> well it says Enhanced Machine Controller
[10:36:37] <frallzor> maybe not the same thing, just assumed it =)
[10:36:59] <Jymmm> ass/you/you ;)
[10:37:01] <cradek> they probably wanted to put EMC on some bullet list but never actually tried it
[10:37:27] <cradek> "works fine as far as we know!" haha
[10:38:03] <frallzor> =(
[10:38:42] <jthornton> frallzor, can you edit the PP?
[10:39:01] <frallzor> I assume so yes
[10:39:26] <Jymmm> I think everyone should have to take the japanese/chinese approach to "false advertising" and state/use a non-edited photo of the product that you are pedaling. I have yet to ever order and receive a burger that looks like this... http://www.wellnessroadtrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/hamburger.jpg
[10:39:30] <cradek> if you paid money, complain to your vendor
[10:40:21] <frallzor> Well I got a license the half good way, so I guess ill make my friend complain =)
[10:40:32] <cradek> boo
[10:40:43] <frallzor> they changed CAM-software
[10:40:50] <frallzor> so I got to try this one =)
[10:41:43] <frallzor> but its the same issues with the free version HSMexpress afaik
[10:43:05] <frallzor> Last thing for me to invest in is a nice CAM-software thay plays nicely with solidworks, and also likes EMC, but no go yet with any ive tried =/
[10:44:44] <jthornton> frallzor, OneCNC opens up native SW files but the GUI is a bit clunky but it does generate EMC code
[10:46:14] <frallzor> does it allow that you select features of the model and create operations for them?
[10:47:37] <jthornton> yes, the level I have you can do all the profiling type ops and some of the 3-d milling ops
[10:47:48] <frallzor> define some
[10:48:33] <jthornton> give me a moment or three to go out to my shop and open it up
[10:48:43] <frallzor> Atm I use Vectric Aspire for my 3D-machining and I have to say its a bitch for anything but "artsy" 3D =/
[10:49:08] <frallzor> ill go out and try some other PPs during that time then
[10:49:41] <jthornton> try a generic fanuc if you have one
[10:53:26] <JT-Shop> frallzor: for 30d there is planar rough and finish and Z level rough and finish and flat area machining
[10:54:36] <JT-Shop> 2-d pocket, clean circle, facing, profile chain, chamfer, corner rounding, thread milling, cut chain constant or variable Z and engrave all
[10:58:37] <JT-Shop> it also has hole feature recognition
[11:05:18] <frallzor> I see
[11:05:52] <frallzor> I tried some generic fanuc PPs seemed a bit rought but could work if removing some odd lines of code, but there was a mach2mill PP that seems to work fine
[11:06:11] <frallzor> how much is OneCNC?
[11:06:33] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:07:27] <frallzor> seems pretty nice
[11:08:13] <Loetmichel> *mill booting* (work for the company done, go on with work for the convention ;-)
[11:22:03] <JT-Shop> dang web page ain't loading for me http://www.onecnc.net/
[11:22:24] <frallzor> found that page but couldnt locate any pricing info
[11:22:59] <JT-Shop> they are nice people to talk to unlike bob crap
[11:23:21] <frallzor> well im in Sweden so Ill stick with mail at most =)
[11:23:49] <frallzor> is this the same? http://www.qarm.com.au/general/new_evaluation.htm
[11:24:07] <JT-Shop> looking
[11:24:14] <JT-Shop> yea
[11:25:03] <JT-Shop> there is a newer version out but I've not tried it
[11:25:04] <frallzor> is there a demo or something to try?
[11:25:26] <frallzor> yeah that new versions seemed to be less "clunky" than you described
[11:26:22] <JT-Shop> maybe I need to try it out... I have complained enough about the old version on the forum
[11:26:48] <frallzor> seemed pretty straight forward
[11:27:13] <JT-Shop> do the demo
[11:28:22] <frallzor> is it a software demo or a "we come and show" demo?
[11:29:18] <JT-Shop> If I recall when I did it you could do everything but post
[11:29:55] <frallzor> ahh I dont like those demos, 1x post would be nice to try at least =)
[11:30:15] <JT-Shop> yea, I know what you mean
[11:30:17] <frallzor> see how the code is liked by the machine =) Im lucky I could try EMCworks =)
[11:31:14] <JT-Shop> I do know you can change most parameters of the post processor without much trouble.
[11:31:35] <JT-Shop> the only problem I have is my 308 doesn't use ( ) for comments
[11:32:17] <jdhNC> write a post-post
[11:32:40] <frallzor> the mach2mill PP im using now seems to work fine
[11:32:51] <JT-Shop> it's just a problem if I use more than one tool then it is at the top only
[11:33:19] <jdhNC> 5/128" x 1/4" 2 Flutes End Mills
[11:41:24] <JT-Shop> frallzor: how much was hsmworks?
[11:41:45] <JT-Shop> or are you using the express one?
[11:46:24] <Jordan_> i want to make molds out of aluminum, whats a good affordable desktop cnc
[11:47:14] <cradek> if you have a big desk, the tormach is a decent small mill for aluminum
[11:47:54] <cradek> I understand you can even get it with linuxcnc preinstalled
[11:48:05] <jdhNC> 'affordable' covers a lot of area
[11:48:45] <cradek> yes so does 'desktop' and 'molds'
[11:48:58] <jdhNC> true
[11:49:06] <cradek> also 'good'
[11:49:07] <cradek> haha
[11:49:39] <jdhNC> what do you make with aluminum molds?
[11:50:23] <Jordan_> http://cncsnap.com/node/85 this is 499
[11:51:16] <jdhNC> it is desktop, affordable.
[11:52:09] <cradek> true, that's like half the requirements right there
[11:52:29] <JT-Shop> I don't think you would be able to do aluminum molds on that little guy
[11:52:41] <jdhNC> if you change aluminum to soft plastic, it might.
[11:52:44] <cradek> right, that's not for cutting metal
[11:53:05] <cradek> it's for engraving or other work that has almost no tool force
[11:53:12] <JT-Shop> are they nema 17 steppers on that thing?
[11:53:28] <JT-Shop> yep
[11:54:16] <JT-Shop> I think it is some kind of wood
[11:55:41] <Jordan_> so for cutting AL it is more like $1-2k
[11:57:31] <jdhNC> I'm up to about $2000 and haven't cut anything yet.
[11:57:54] <Jordan_> k that's pretty much out of the question, guess it doesn't have to be AL
[11:58:10] <JT-Shop> what is your final product your trying to make?
[11:58:35] <Jordan_> just some plastic parts
[11:59:05] <JT-Shop> vacuum form or injection?
[11:59:11] <Jordan_> cast
[11:59:39] * JT-Shop didn't know you could cast plastic
[11:59:46] <JT-Shop> what kind of plastic?
[12:00:01] <archivist> I suppose injection is pressure cast
[12:00:32] <Loetmichel> http://bambuser.com/v/2650680 <- trophy bases millin, second turn... hope i get the 28 trophies done 'til tomorrow morning, have to go to the convention then ;-)
[12:00:44] <JT-Shop> archivist: got the power pack to run and spun up the generator but I'll need a throttle man to watch the volts when I test
[12:01:31] <archivist> JT-Shop, is there no governor then?
[12:01:53] <JT-Shop> no, just an aircraft type of locking throttle
[12:02:22] <JT-Shop> but yes it has a mechanical governor
[12:02:26] <archivist> hmm redneck a servo onto it then :)
[12:02:28] <JT-Shop> but not linked to volts
[12:02:46] <JT-Shop> just need to run it for 20 minutes max
[12:02:58] <archivist> the governor does frequency not volts
[12:03:55] <archivist> the generator "should" regulate the voltage
[12:05:43] <archivist> iirc they pull some of the output current through the field to self regulate voltage
[12:05:46] <JT-Shop> yea, I forgot
[12:06:06] <archivist> although some have a separate regulator
[12:06:22] <JT-Shop> this one has DC excitation and rpm seems to vary the voltage up and down
[12:07:05] <archivist> old ones had a compressed resistor field supply voltage was the compression force
[12:07:10] <Tom_itx> do any use a startup circuit to limit inrush current to the psu caps on your supplies?
[12:07:37] <Tom_itx> if so what do you do
[12:09:51] <JT-Shop> seems like the post for HSMXpress is configurable
[12:10:04] <jdhNC> some of these mach3 wizard addon thingies look quite nifty.
[12:11:08] <Tom_itx> one step closer: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/caps1.jpg
[12:11:30] <Connor> jdhNC: What was you needing last night ?
[12:12:31] <jdhNC> connor: I have to small metal blocks, maybe 3/8" x 3/4" or so, with counterbored holes with bolts in them. Any idea where they went?
[12:13:18] <Connor> Probably for they keyways on the vise.
[12:13:43] <jdhNC> maybe that was it. I don't recall taking them off.
[12:14:03] <Connor> You get the same vise I get ?
[12:14:22] <jdhNC> dunno, it's a cheapish 5" shars
[12:14:29] <Connor> yea.. I think they came with it.
[12:15:08] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:15:21] <jdhNC> they look like something that woudl be good for keeping the head aligned
[12:15:43] <Connor> You mean traim aids ?
[12:15:47] <jdhNC> ok
[12:16:29] <Connor> I made mine. You need to have a little step in them.. and they need to have 2 holes. One to mount to the column. One for the set screw to go through.
[12:16:39] <jdhNC> how do you tell if the head is rotated on the column vs. the column tilted?
[12:17:10] <Connor> You tram the column to the table, then the head to the table. then the vise to the head.
[12:17:35] <Connor> Hoss has some videos on his site on how to do it..
[12:17:45] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: by sensor B)
[12:17:47] <Connor> My column was pretty dead on.
[12:17:54] <jdhNC> I started to take my column off to make sure it had clean mating surfaces, but I couldn't break the allen srews loose with the amount of force I was willing to use.
[12:18:31] <jdhNC> My Y lead-screw nut does not have the backlash adjustment screw in it either.
[12:18:48] <Connor> WTF ? Really ?
[12:19:12] <Connor> I double checked mine.. both X and Y had them.
[12:19:31] <jdhNC> X should be visible from the right, Y from the back?
[12:20:46] <jdhNC> I added them (4mm) on the X. Gave up on Y after dropping them repeatedly. I was hoping that removing the column would make it easier, but that didn't work out either.
[12:23:50] <Connor> Yes. and Yes.
[12:24:08] <Connor> I had to Tip my machine back to tighten up the Y..
[12:25:01] <jdhNC> I might just put the x/y wheels back on to make the ballnut mounts
[12:25:21] <Connor> Manually ?
[12:25:28] <jdhNC> yeah
[12:25:56] <Connor> Other possibility is, to write the G code to take into account backlash.
[12:26:20] <Connor> by overshooting stuff and going back.. and only cut in one direction..
[12:26:23] <jdhNC> it seems to be pretty minimal on Y
[12:26:33] <Connor> and then use your boring bar for the holes.
[12:26:57] <jdhNC> doesn't really need any XY precision, just removing some material
[12:27:00] <Loetmichel> hmm, 3sec delay... sound "live" ...
[12:27:13] <Loetmichel> OH, have to start the vacuum ;-)
[12:27:34] <Connor> Oh. okay.
[12:36:27] <jdhNC> wonder if that 5" vise will fit on the X2
[12:44:58] <Connor> jdhNC: Dunno.. Why ?
[12:46:56] <jdhNC> I could make the ballnut mounts on the X2
[12:47:19] <jdhNC> except my boring bar is R8
[12:47:35] <Connor> Is the X2 not R8 ?
[12:47:40] <jdhNC> MT3
[12:47:42] <Connor> or, did you get a Mt3
[12:47:59] <jdhNC> $200 new, I wasn't too picky.
[12:48:17] <Connor> Did you get a clamp kit for the X2 ?
[12:49:44] <jdhNC> nope, I have some things that should work though
[12:49:58] <Connor> You could do that instead of the vise.
[12:51:15] <jdhNC> I finished putting my 4x6 bandsaw together last night. It did a great job on 1"x4" aluminum. Not quite square though
[12:51:58] <Connor> I use my Miter saw with carbide blade for now.. till I can get 4 x 6 bandsaw.
[12:52:16] <jdhNC> the miter saw is probably much faster
[12:52:35] <roycroft> those 4x6 bandsaws can be tricky to tune up
[12:52:42] <roycroft> the problem is that they flex so much
[12:52:47] <roycroft> i just sold mine
[12:52:53] * roycroft got a 7x12 a couple years ago
[12:52:55] <Connor> Produces allot more swarf than the bandsaw..
[12:53:18] <roycroft> i hate using abrasive blade miter saws
[12:53:21] <jdhNC> heh... I bet a 7x12 HF would self destruct
[12:53:24] <roycroft> noisy, dusty, lots of heat
[12:53:34] <roycroft> mine is the hf model
[12:53:46] <roycroft> it was a scratch 'n' dent special - i got it for $275
[12:53:46] <jdhNC> this seems fine for $179
[12:53:48] <Jymmm> jdhNC: HF bandsaw or lathe?
[12:53:56] <roycroft> bandsaw
[12:53:56] <jdhNC> Jymm: bandsaw
[12:53:59] <roycroft> it was missing the table
[12:54:06] <jdhNC> does anyone use the table?
[12:54:11] <roycroft> it did not take me long to fab a table that was better than what would come with it
[12:54:12] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Actually, they are pretty good surprisingly
[12:54:17] <roycroft> i don't have a vertical bandsaw, so yes
[12:54:24] <roycroft> and yes, my saw cuts very well
[12:54:32] <roycroft> good, square, repeateable cuts
[12:54:45] <roycroft> i got a good blade for it from enco
[12:55:05] <roycroft> with any bandsaw you get from hf, the first thing you do is toss the blade
[12:55:10] <jdhNC> my lack of squareness was mainly due to eyeballing the fence and trying to hold it and tighten at the same time.
[12:55:31] <jdhNC> I got a bimetal blade for it. Just tried the stock on last night.
[12:55:35] <Jymmm> The older green one (not available anymore) was pretty good
[12:56:00] <roycroft> the second thing you do is take the cover off the gearbox, suck out all the oil, clean the casting sand out of it, and refill it
[12:56:18] <Jymmm> roycroft: wheres the fun in that
[12:56:29] <roycroft> or you can just go buy another one in a couple months :)
[12:56:36] <roycroft> they are pretty cheap
[12:56:38] <jdhNC> need to reinforce the stand too, it's pretty flimsy
[12:56:41] <Jymmm> get the warranty! lol
[12:56:44] <roycroft> not on mine
[12:56:51] <roycroft> but yeah, on the 4x6
[12:57:00] <Jymmm> jdhNC: no, even hast cast iron wheels
[12:57:02] <jdhNC> I actually got the warranty for this, never have before. $12
[12:57:21] <roycroft> since the bed is so flexy in the first place, you need to build a new stand for it to have any chance of repeatable square cuts
[12:57:43] <roycroft> the 7x12 is much beefier
[12:57:47] <roycroft> and it comes with a good stand
[12:57:57] <Jymmm> See, they made lots of changes, not cast wheels http://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html
[12:57:57] <roycroft> i replaced the wheels on mine
[12:57:57] <A0Sheds> http://www.summitmt.com/machine-tools/lathes anybody have experience with this brand?
[12:58:41] <roycroft> my old 4x6 was a jet, not hf
[12:58:47] <roycroft> and it was a lot better than the current hf saws
[12:59:05] <roycroft> i did ok with it - i bought it at a garage sale about 15 years ago for $50, and i sold it for $125
[12:59:19] <roycroft> not a bad roi at all
[12:59:36] <roycroft> and selling it for almost half of what i paid for the 7x12 was nice
[12:59:56] <roycroft> the hydraulic downfeed control is really nice on my new one
[13:00:24] <roycroft> especially when i'm cutting stainless steel - i can, with a twist of a knob, set the feed to be really aggressive
[13:00:37] <Jymmm> http://images.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/37100-37199/37151.gif
[13:01:06] <jdhNC> it looks better in that pic than reallife.
[13:01:24] <roycroft> anything you buy from hf you should consider a semi-finished kit
[13:01:27] <roycroft> not a ready-to-use tool
[13:02:27] <Connor> My issue is, I just don't have room for it..
[13:02:40] <Connor> My workshop is 7'x 11'
[13:02:48] <roycroft> i'm tight on shop space, too
[13:02:58] <Connor> 7' x 40" is used by my workbench.
[13:03:00] <roycroft> and i hesitated for about 3 seconds when i saw that 7x12 for $275
[13:03:06] <Jymmm> You have a ceiling with lots of room!
[13:03:09] <roycroft> the hesitation being "where will i put it?"
[13:03:09] <Connor> one corner has the water heater..
[13:03:13] <roycroft> but i could not pass up that deal
[13:03:39] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/shop/
[13:03:55] <Connor> Pictures of shop before I had the mill and built the enclosure for the vacuum.
[13:03:57] <roycroft> i have a workshop in my 1-1/2 car garage, and a 16'x16' welding/grinding/making messes shop
[13:04:10] <roycroft> both are quite full
[13:04:21] <djdelorie> some years back, I contemplated a piece of machinery but had to ask myself if I thought the concrete floor was strong enough to support it
[13:04:45] <djdelorie> then I realized that the *right* question was, if it's that heavy, will I be able to get it down the stairs?
[13:04:53] <roycroft> i would have to partially dismantle a bridgeport to get it in my garage door
[13:05:08] * roycroft just sold his radial arm saw, too
[13:05:19] <roycroft> i have a tablesaw and a chop saw
[13:05:34] <Connor> Yea.. I have it stored else were..
[13:06:07] <roycroft> so having not used the ra saw for at least a decade, i decided to reclaim the space it was taking up
[13:06:36] <Connor> That one is from the 70's.. I picked it up for $100.00
[13:07:05] <roycroft> yeah, i just sold mine for $80
[13:07:10] <roycroft> they don't go for much these days
[13:07:11] <Connor> I ended up getting a new spoiler board, and blade guard because it was so old they had recalls on it.
[13:07:26] <roycroft> there's always at least a half dozen of them on cl at any given moment
[13:07:51] <djdelorie> I've since then solved the stairs problem: removable stairs! http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_2418.html
[13:07:53] <Connor> People like the cross-cut compound miter saws now..
[13:07:57] <roycroft> yup
[13:08:10] <roycroft> my chop saw is an old, simple ryobi
[13:08:14] <roycroft> but it does what i need it to do for me
[13:08:47] <Connor> I have a 10 or 12 " Ryobi.. no cross cut.. but, that works fine for cutting the alumn bar stock
[13:09:57] <roycroft> i use my metal band saw for most metal cutting
[13:10:03] <bostjan_2> Hello everyone. Little question for psha.. I have managed webcam to be in a window of emc with cross.. Works like charm. The funcion i havent had yet is a x y z values on camera image itself. Any tip ??
[13:10:26] <roycroft> the exceptions being aluminum plate, which i cut with my table saw, and steel plate, which i cut with my plasma cutter
[13:10:37] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: what did you pay for this lathe
[13:10:51] <djdelorie> it was my father-in-laws
[13:11:21] <djdelorie> so the price I paid doesn't correlate to what anyone else would have paid ;-)
[13:11:32] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: and from his grandfather O.O
[13:11:44] <djdelorie> no, from his friend "Buddy"
[13:11:48] <Jymmm> djdelorie: So you paid double? ;)
[13:11:57] <djdelorie> I paid more than I thought it was worth, yes.
[13:12:04] <IchGuckLive> bostjan_2: over VCP ?
[13:12:06] <djdelorie> Trying to help out my mother-in-law
[13:12:22] <djdelorie> Tom got it in 1971, Buddy got it in the late 40's. It's a 1922 model 34
[13:12:41] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Ah, I mant becsue FIL didn't approve of his baby girl marrying you =)
[13:12:43] <IchGuckLive> and now going NC
[13:12:49] <bostjan_2> I have followed psha wiki.. It is a new tab in axis
[13:13:08] <djdelorie> he approved. I bought it from MIL after FIL passed away
[13:13:28] <Jymmm> djdelorie: That's cool, I was just playing
[13:13:59] <djdelorie> it is in great shape, though. i've been restoring it, although mostly that means a little cleaning. Tom and Buddy took good care of it, at least the parts they used regularly
[13:15:00] <Jymmm> I buy a lot off CL, once one person was just asking way too little, so I paid them more than what they were asking
[13:15:32] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: you can get alot of money from a museum
[13:15:37] <roycroft> i've done that before, jymmm
[13:15:48] <IchGuckLive> as it has belt driven systems
[13:15:50] <roycroft> it ususally really surprises people
[13:16:04] <roycroft> but i try to give people a fair price on things
[13:16:12] <djdelorie> I'd rather use it and maintain it for another generation
[13:16:19] <roycroft> on the contrary, i also ask a fair price when selling things
[13:16:20] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: witch country are you from
[13:16:25] <djdelorie> usa
[13:16:27] <Jymmm> roycroft: You dont see it much now these days, but it happens
[13:16:28] <roycroft> and turn down a lot of people who don't bargain in good faith
[13:16:46] <roycroft> if i'm selling something worth $200, i'll ask $225 or $250
[13:16:51] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: state
[13:16:55] <djdelorie> nh
[13:17:06] <roycroft> and get a bunch of folks offering me more like $75, and getting all pissy when i don't take their offer
[13:18:04] <Jymmm> roycroft: What annoys me is the ones (usually females) that say "What is the lowest price you'll take", then I say $50 higher than I was asking for it.
[13:19:13] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: ask the see-sience center if they need somthing for there historic section
[13:19:37] <djdelorie> I've already donated an antique woodturning lathe to the canterbury museum
[13:20:19] <djdelorie> I'm keeping this one, and maybe looking for a mill too
[13:20:20] <bostjan_2> IchGuckLive:I have followed psha wiki.. It is a new tab in axis
[13:20:42] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: there are 4 othere historicl museums around you with plenty of money in stoc k
[13:20:48] <roycroft> i have a new strategy that works well for me
[13:20:53] <roycroft> i stumbled upon it
[13:20:54] <djdelorie> like I said, I'm keeping this one
[13:20:59] <roycroft> i have two problems selling shop gear on cl:
[13:21:02] <IchGuckLive> bostjan_2: i cand find psha wiki on webcam
[13:21:08] <Jymmm> roycroft: I went to the flea market couple of weeks ago. *ALL* of the ladies selling would not bargain at all, firm on outragious prices. but *ALL* the guys just gave me seriously low prices on everything.
[13:21:10] <roycroft> 1. i work during the day, out of town, so am not terribly available
[13:21:27] <roycroft> 2. i don't want random people checking out my shop, and i don't want to keep that stuff inside my house
[13:21:40] <roycroft> so my gf, who is at home during the day, offered to handle the sales for me
[13:21:52] <roycroft> i take pictures, post them on cl with the ad, then take the gear over to her house
[13:21:58] <roycroft> and she sells the stuff for me
[13:22:05] <bostjan_2> IchGuckLive:http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video
[13:22:07] <roycroft> i tell her my asking price and my bottom line
[13:22:23] <roycroft> since it's not her stuff, she can rightfully claim that she doesn't have much wiggle room
[13:27:59] <IchGuckLive> bostjan_2: did you install camunits
[13:30:38] <bostjan_2> IchGuckLive: I have installed camview, camunits yes, but i havent install camunits-plugins-emc as it wants to deinstall linuxcnc and install emc2..
[13:31:42] <IchGuckLive> i see
[13:31:47] <alex4nder> hey
[13:32:10] <roycroft> i wonder if you would install emc2, then camunits, then upgrade to linuxcnc
[13:35:41] <IchGuckLive> bostjan_2: sorry i cand find your fault !
[13:39:56] <Connor> Is there anything like this http://www.newfangledsolutions.com/addons.php for LinuxCNC ?
[13:40:47] <bostjan_2> Uf, i think i need to wait for a psha guru.. Meanwhile, i will try with VCp, i need to learn this. BTW, that is a hell of a software!!
[13:44:02] <bostjan_2> I mean hell in a good way!
[13:55:33] <archivist> Connor, see that gear milling addon, it is trivial in gcode why pay for it!
[13:57:30] <archivist> Connor, eg http://www.archivist.info/cnc/standard_clock_n_teeth.ngc
[14:00:20] <Connor> I know it's trivial.. and I'm not going to pay for it. (that's for Mach3)
[14:00:47] <Connor> I was hoping their was something that had a bunch of pre-canned g-code stuff with easy to use interface like it for LinuxCNC>
[14:01:13] <alex4nder> there are some addons
[14:01:31] <archivist> one can implement stuff behind a few buttons, some is on the wiki
[14:01:53] <Connor> I just found this.. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators
[14:02:24] <Connor> a simple python gui to archivist G code would make nice for a 4th axis gear cutter..
[14:02:40] <archivist> I find it easier to just edit my gcode than use gui's
[14:03:01] <Connor> What about threading?
[14:03:07] <archivist> because the machine setup changes too often too
[14:03:11] <dave38> g-code is pretty straight forward stuff
[14:03:46] <archivist> thread milling is almost a one line bit of gcode
[14:03:51] <dave38> live cd install help?
[14:04:32] <dave38> I've gotten into initramfs and have no idea how to respond
[14:04:38] <Connor> Well.. I'm talking about lathe threading ATM.. but, mill threading might be nice too
[14:05:35] <dave38> anyone brave enough to try buttress threads
[14:06:13] <archivist> Connor, basic path to cut a thread G1 F.05 x-.063 Y[0-#20] Z[0-#5] A[0-#<rotation_angle>] (rotate blank 7 turns)
[14:07:03] <archivist> dave38, I have done a horrid thread, the work support was key
[14:07:58] <archivist> dave38, http://gears.archivist.info/gears/p1010058_500.jpg
[14:08:21] <archivist> 4mm dia shaft
[14:09:53] <archivist> connor there is a g76 example that comes with the software, adjust to suit your thread
[14:10:29] <cncjerry> hello, so I am trying to re-install from the latest live CD and am having a few problems. Hopefully someone can help.
[14:10:57] <cradek> hi, go ahead and ask your real question
[14:11:00] <cncjerry> I tried the install under windows option and it downloads a new version, installs and no linuxCNC
[14:11:06] <cncjerry> cradek, was looking for you
[14:11:10] <cradek> uh-oh
[14:11:29] <cncjerry> yep, you might remember me from 2008 when I installed the last time.
[14:11:29] <archivist> under windows! must be some mistake
[14:12:04] <cradek> yeah, I don't know what that is/does
[14:12:06] <cncjerry> no, there is an option when you load the livecd to install with virtual drives to an NTFS volume. it then edits the windows boot.ini and gives you dual boot.
[14:12:11] <cncjerry> I ran with this for years.
[14:12:12] <cradek> cncjerry: sorry, 4 years is a long time
[14:12:47] <cncjerry> the problem started when I installed the updates to my 4yr old system. I got the initramfs prompt
[14:12:52] <cncjerry> couldn't get out of it
[14:13:07] <cncjerry> so I copied all me config files off and saved them
[14:13:33] <cncjerry> I then downloaded the latest live cd, tried the windows based install and it downloads a new version, I assume not the version we need
[14:13:39] <cradek> perhaps you selected the wrong update (os version, instead of packages)
[14:14:02] <cncjerry> could be. I went to the download page and took the first off the list for a new install
[14:14:07] <cradek> you know we're all going to recommend that you stop trying to install under windows, right?
[14:14:22] <cncjerry> yes, and I did
[14:14:23] <cradek> and we'll all just be snarky about it until you take that advice
[14:14:26] <cradek> :-)
[14:14:49] <cncjerry> so I rebooted the CD and took the install option to put it down to a new partition as well as a swap partition
[14:15:05] <cncjerry> but the stupid windows boot is on the mbr of the first drive.
[14:15:09] <cncjerry> boot.ini?
[14:15:46] <cncjerry> so I tried to move the mbr from the linux install partition over to the windows drive using the option to then load that from boot.ini, technical, eh?
[14:15:54] <cradek> it sounds like you're asking for advice on dual-booting linux with windows, not something specific to our cd - I don't know the answer to that stuff
[14:15:54] <cncjerry> can't make it work.
[14:16:22] <archivist> just get a caddy, unplug your windows, install a clean drive install linuxcnc...profit :)
[14:16:34] <cncjerry> ok, but if I install the CD to a partition that is not the first, shouldn't the mbr of my windows get overwriten by the install?
[14:17:01] <cradek> sorry, I don't know how dual boot is supposed to work
[14:17:21] <cncjerry> going back to a basic new install. shouldn't I be able to install to any partition?
[14:17:24] <cradek> have you searched around on ubuntu.com? I bet lots of ubuntu users (but few linuxcnc folks) do that
[14:17:59] <cncjerry> yes, that is where I got the hint on how to move the mbr over to windows and fix boot.ini. it boots but just gives me a cursor in the upper left
[14:18:06] <cncjerry> so something is hosed
[14:18:15] <cradek> yuck
[14:18:35] <cncjerry> windows boots fine
[14:19:10] <cncjerry> I don't know why the standard linux boot loader didn't get put down on top of the boot drive.
[14:19:23] <cncjerry> I thought I would have to then add windows to grub
[14:19:30] <cncjerry> done that before
[14:19:38] <cradek> yeah I guess that's what I expect too
[14:20:30] <cncjerry> so I guess I need the kernal from the CD. this one that gets downloaded under windows install would be suspect.
[14:20:35] <archivist> I never trusted dual boot so use multiple physical drives, no possibility of breaking anything on the other os
[14:21:11] <cncjerry> arch - that's what I did but for some reason this old motherboard wont let me specify the boot drive other than the first one.
[14:21:37] <cncjerry> I took an old 80gig drive, split it in two for root and swap.
[14:21:45] <archivist> I dont have to, they are in caddies ONE at a time in the machine
[14:22:01] <cncjerry> installed but for some reason grub didn't get onto the mbr (?) of the first drive.
[14:23:14] <cncjerry> I'm thinking about taking the 80gig drive, installing it in the first position, then moving the old windows over to another computer. I did a dual boot with the 2.2.8 version from 2008 because I was still ocasionally running mach3
[14:23:19] <alex4nder> does anyone have any interest in providing an official set of LinuxCNC debian images?
[14:23:34] <cradek> what do you mean providing?
[14:23:35] <alex4nder> and by images, I really mean just .debs
[14:23:36] <cncjerry> but mach3's constact velocity sux so bad that I don't run it anymore
[14:23:54] <alex4nder> cradek: I mean having a debian repository that provides an RTAI kernel, all the bits, and a recent LinuxCNC build.. as a .deb
[14:24:06] <alex4nder> well, multiple debs
[14:24:51] <cradek> hmm, good question. are you interested in providing them but don't have a way to host them?
[14:24:54] <alex4nder> right now I'm building: linux-headers-2.6.32.11-rtai-3.8.1-4-2.6-03_2_i386.deb linux-image-2.6.32.11-rtai-3.8.1-4-2.6-03_2_i386.deb rtai-modules-2.6.32.11-rtai-3.8.1-4-2.6-03_3.8.1-4+2_i386.deb
[14:25:12] <alex4nder> cradek: I'm already hosting them, but I was wondering if anyone cares enough to make it 'officially' supported
[14:25:49] <alex4nder> otherwise I'll just post up that people can get them from my server
[14:26:26] <archivist> perhaps they could be added to the buildbot
[14:27:09] <cradek> yes, currently we use the buildbot to build the release debs
[14:34:48] <cncjerry> i'm back. i found out how to get it to boot the ubuntu linux install drive within the bios
[14:34:56] <cncjerry> it boots, linux starts, etc
[14:35:02] <cncjerry> and no linuxCNC
[14:35:16] <cncjerry> I have the manuals off the applications menu, but no linuxCNC
[14:35:37] <cradek> do you mean it doesn't run? or it isn't on the menu? or the package isn't installed?
[14:35:51] <cncjerry> it isn't on the menu / package isn't installed
[14:36:05] <cncjerry> the manuals are available off the menu
[14:36:13] <skunkworks> open a terminal and type emc? for grins? (or linuxcnc if it is new enough)
[14:36:22] <cncjerry> brb
[14:36:32] <alex4nder> cradek / archivist: do you have the buildbot just doing dpkg-buildpackages?
[14:37:06] <cradek> it runs the test suite and stuff, so no it's got to be more intricate than that
[14:37:10] <cradek> I don't know much about it
[14:38:04] <alex4nder> ok, but what test suite is it going to run on an RTAI kernel build?
[14:38:19] <cradek> the buildbot doesn't build the kernel packages
[14:38:27] <cradek> it builds the linuxcnc packages
[14:38:46] <alex4nder> well the kernel/RTAI stuff is all I'm building, so I guess I'm confused.
[14:39:03] <alex4nder> once you have those, the linuxcnc build is trivial
[14:39:59] <Connor> can someone look at this and tell me how it works? http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3782&category=-1110836144 I see 4 ramps.. but, without it in hand, i can't figure out how it would torque up the plate to the rotary table..
[14:40:05] <cradek> true enough, but for it to be all official we'd have to build releases for it too, and I'm not sure about taking that on
[14:40:18] <cncjerry> I found an emc2 directory but typing emc2 or linuxcnc are both not foundf
[14:40:44] <alex4nder> cradek: ok, well I'll just put up a repo, and maybe can link to it as unofficial?
[14:40:55] <cradek> that sounds great to me
[14:41:16] <alex4nder> cool
[14:41:18] <alex4nder> I'll set it up
[14:41:25] <cncjerry> any ideas what is wrong here? where is linuxcnc normally installed with the live cd?
[14:42:23] <skunkworks> cncjerry: 'emc' not emc2
[14:42:26] <cradek> cncjerry: I have no idea how you'd use our cd but not get the package installed. what kernel(s) do you have?
[14:42:56] <cncjerry> I have to go logon down there.
[14:43:36] * skunkworks puts on his phone support hat...
[14:43:52] <skunkworks> We have never run into that problem before...
[14:49:12] <andypugh> Connor: There must be T-nut shapes under the ramps. So, you loosen the 4 screws and remove the screw+ramp from the backplate. You then slide the 4 assemblies into the T-slots, and plonk the chuck+backplate on top. Then you tighten the screws to pull the backplate down onto the table.
[14:49:27] <andypugh> It's very clever ans I have no choice but to steal the idea.
[14:51:46] <linux-cnc-bob> hi im bob
[14:52:07] <alex4nder> hi bob
[14:52:10] <andypugh> Hi Bob. Let me guess, you do CNC, and use Linux
[14:52:10] <linux-cnc-bob> hi
[14:52:12] <andypugh> ?
[14:52:13] <linux-cnc-bob> yes
[14:52:16] <archivist> andypugh, Connor my method cheaper http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage6/P1010026.JPG
[14:52:16] <linux-cnc-bob> :D
[14:52:26] <linux-cnc-bob> I just installed and configured it first time
[14:52:32] <linux-cnc-bob> for a 3axis cnc mill
[14:52:51] <linux-cnc-bob> get the error "unexpected realtime delay on task 1" :(
[14:52:54] <andypugh> So, is it all working perfectly and you came here to gloat, or is there a problem?
[14:53:04] <linux-cnc-bob> :)
[14:53:14] <linux-cnc-bob> it is user error problems
[14:53:15] <archivist> check your latency
[14:53:24] <linux-cnc-bob> i set it to max in software, 50us
[14:53:28] <andypugh> archivist: Ah, yes, but that only works if the chuck is smaller than the table.
[14:53:48] <archivist> andypugh, conveniently yes :)
[14:54:08] <andypugh> That other design lets you mount a chuck the same size as the table.
[14:54:46] <cpresser> linux-cnc-bob: and for some reason it was larger than the value set -> error
[14:54:54] <andypugh> Anyway. linux-cnc-bob If you type "dmesg" at the command prompt and read back you will probably see a message saying just how bad the latency problem was.
[14:55:08] <cpresser> linux-cnc-bob: run latency-test and try to tune your system
[14:55:12] <linux-cnc-bob> servo thread latency shows max jitter of 598us
[14:55:20] <andypugh> Eeew!
[14:55:23] <archivist> ouch
[14:55:24] <linux-cnc-bob> base thread latency is 321us
[14:55:27] <linux-cnc-bob> thats if I opened firefox
[14:55:34] <andypugh> That's awful.
[14:55:38] <linux-cnc-bob> hmm
[14:55:46] <linux-cnc-bob> its a core2duo
[14:55:49] <linux-cnc-bob> 2.4GHz
[14:55:53] <linux-cnc-bob> 2.66Ghz
[14:55:55] <linux-cnc-bob> ..
[14:56:03] <archivist> start debugging your latency problems, change video card
[14:56:03] <andypugh> Latency is more about the motherboard.
[14:56:08] <linux-cnc-bob> ok
[14:56:10] <jdhNC> is it a laptop?
[14:56:13] <linux-cnc-bob> no
[14:56:17] <linux-cnc-bob> PC
[14:56:35] <linux-cnc-bob> I installed from the linuxcnc livecd
[14:56:43] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: Have a look at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting
[14:56:55] <linux-cnc-bob> k thx
[14:57:12] <andypugh> It probbaly isn't SMI with a core2duo.
[14:57:57] <andypugh> Actually, I take that back, after a Google.
[14:58:23] <linux-cnc-bob> the servo tests work on when i do the config wizard
[14:58:35] <linux-cnc-bob> just when i start linux cnc i get the error
[14:58:41] <linux-cnc-bob> ^work ok
[14:59:01] <alex4nder> linux-cnc-bob: did you run them for multiple hours with load on the machine?
[14:59:07] <alex4nder> varying load, at that
[14:59:19] <andypugh> Unfortunately you only get the message once, even if the latency spikes every second.
[14:59:50] <linux-cnc-bob> just ran them for a couple minutes
[14:59:54] <andypugh> Well, it isn't that unfortunate, as otherwise you can't do anything for error messages.
[15:00:05] <linux-cnc-bob> could be the nvidia 8600gt video card I am guessing
[15:00:33] <skunkworks> linux-cnc-bob: did you install the closed source video driver?
[15:00:37] <linux-cnc-bob> ya
[15:00:43] <linux-cnc-bob> to get rid of fan noise :)
[15:00:43] <skunkworks> that is a no no
[15:00:49] <linux-cnc-bob> ok
[15:00:53] <skunkworks> heh
[15:00:57] <linux-cnc-bob> I'll uninstall and try latency test
[15:00:57] <skunkworks> deal with the fan ;)
[15:01:06] <alex4nder> .. with wire cutters. ;)
[15:01:10] <linux-cnc-bob> "deal with it" i think i know what you mean
[15:01:11] <skunkworks> it is a cnc - it will be louder.
[15:01:16] <linux-cnc-bob> lol true
[15:01:52] <andypugh> There is a link to the "nv" driver in that Wiki page.
[15:02:00] <archivist> not a chance of skunkworks hearing any fans near the k&t!
[15:02:00] <andypugh> Do you have motherboard video?
[15:02:46] <andypugh> The guides say motherboard video is a disaster for latency, but that isn't my experience.
[15:02:52] <linux-cnc-bob> nope just the nvidia card
[15:03:46] <skunkworks> then try uninstalling the closed source driver and it will probably fix it.... Probably
[15:04:03] <andypugh> You don't need great graphics, so perhaps as a second experiment try the software open-gl too.
[15:04:03] <linux-cnc-bob> i forget how to uninstall it but am looking
[15:04:56] <cpresser> just set the driver to vesa in xorg.conf
[15:06:38] <skunkworks> administration -> hardware drivers
[15:06:45] <linux-cnc-bob> ya just found it
[15:07:19] <andypugh> cradek: Close to right http://imagebin.org/212612
[15:08:02] <andypugh> It is a non-planning planner. It only ever considers the current x/v/a and where it needs to stop.
[15:08:18] <linux-cnc-bob> gonna restart and try again
[15:09:06] <cradek> I don't trust your plot. x goes too far and then reverses at the end but your v doesn't show that, and your a doesn't show the result of the v jump at the end
[15:09:17] <skunkworks> I wish the linuxcnc livecd didn't do the 'there are drivers for your hardware..'
[15:09:50] <andypugh> I said it was "close"
[15:10:15] <cradek> I agree it's close - but however you're generating the plot seems wrong
[15:10:38] <andypugh> Those are all aretefacts of me having it say "close enough now"
[15:10:47] <cncjerry> cradek?
[15:10:59] <cncjerry> so I am starting over. I have this 80gig drive
[15:11:38] <cncjerry> I put it into the first hdd position for now, disconnected all others. do I need /boot partition on it? or just root and swap
[15:12:26] <andypugh> cradek: Without the final "clamp" it looks like this. http://imagebin.org/212614
[15:12:39] <cncjerry> anybody? how do I need to partition this drive for a new install from the live CD?
[15:12:43] <andypugh> I think there are rounding errors or time-quantisation problems.
[15:12:57] <cradek> just use the defaults, click next a bunch of times, and you'll get a working install
[15:13:35] <cncjerry> the defaults didn't bring up this drive for some reason. just my USB drive. so I went into the partition table
[15:13:40] <cradek> I think you just select 'use whole disk' somewhere in the process
[15:14:02] <cncjerry> I think if you do that it gives you crap about not having swap
[15:15:04] <cradek> nope
[15:16:04] <cradek> I don't understand why you are having so much trouble. it automatically partitions your disk correctly. if you are clicking 'advanced' or 'custom' or whatever, don't
[15:16:07] <cncjerry> I'll back up a step now that it has a partition
[15:16:27] <cncjerry> it didn't show that hard drive as being available for install
[15:16:38] <cradek> then stop, and fix that problem
[15:16:49] <cradek> check your ide connectors and jumpers
[15:17:05] <cncjerry> I did. it allowed me to partition it. and it is set right in the jumpers. I had to move the termination.
[15:17:12] <linux-cnc-bob> thanks for the help, nvidia proprietary driver was the problem ITS ALIVE!!
[15:17:17] <linux-cnc-bob> (mill is alive)
[15:17:24] <cncjerry> maybe now that it is partitioned it will be there
[15:17:27] <cradek> what termination? is it scsi?
[15:18:28] <cradek> andypugh: haha, it never stops?
[15:18:30] <cncjerry> no ide. I had two extra 80gig drives. this drive was the secondary. so I took it out, made it primary on the first hdd port to try to install
[15:18:49] <cradek> ide doesn't have terminators
[15:18:52] <andypugh> cradek: Indeed, but it never stops in a finite-jerk way
[15:19:03] <cradek> andypugh: heh
[15:19:40] <cncjerry> never. i've been working on computers since 1977. I helped make the fist IBM PC working for iBM. I told my wife last night that I think I am on the down side of the productivity curve for using computers.
[15:19:44] <andypugh> Also, making it work when destination is less than current is yet to be done. I am just playing about.
[15:20:08] <cncjerry> computers are suposed to make us more productive, no?
[15:22:16] <djdelorie> no, just more lazy
[15:22:32] <andypugh> Where ever did you get that idea? Computers are there to fill the spare time that washing machines have made for us.
[15:23:06] <archivist> sudo make me entertained
[15:24:43] <cncjerry> so after partitioning it, I backed up and it was there. in fact, the freakin thing said Ubuntu was already installed on it and it gave me the old partition table. so I took the option to erase the entire disk and now it is installing.
[15:24:46] <cncjerry> go figure.
[15:25:34] <linux-cnc-bob> do I set "MAX_LIMIT = 8.0" to 300 if my table is 300mm?
[15:26:17] <linux-cnc-bob> table axis1
[15:27:02] <cncjerry> if you zero in the middle, wont it go 300 left and right?
[15:27:25] <linux-cnc-bob> not sure
[15:27:36] <linux-cnc-bob> im just starting not sure what im doing!
[15:27:38] <linux-cnc-bob> :D
[15:27:41] <archivist> convention is to have 0 at one end
[15:27:57] <djdelorie> except Z, where 0 is the top and coordinates are all negative
[15:28:17] <archivist> top end :)
[15:28:32] <linux-cnc-bob> so if my x axis has 300mm travel, then MIN_LIMIT should be 0 and MAX_LIMIT should be 300 i guess
[15:28:44] <djdelorie> that's what my XY are configured as
[15:29:37] <linux-cnc-bob> what is the SCALE variable do?
[15:29:56] <linux-cnc-bob> ^does
[15:30:20] <djdelorie> I think it's steps per inch or something like that
[15:30:46] <skunkworks> or steps per unit. (like mm)
[15:31:02] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: Yes, steps per inch for a stepper. Encoder counts per inch for a servo. Except when it is steps per mm. Or steps per parsec.
[15:31:23] <djdelorie> digital things per linear measurement :-)
[15:31:34] <andypugh> cradek: Actually, this version is spot-on looking at the numbers, it just needs to learn to stop: ElseIf dtg <= x_t3 Then ' time to ramp out
[15:31:35] <andypugh> a = limit(a + jmax * dt, amax)
[15:31:36] <andypugh> r(13) = "ramp"
[15:31:38] <andypugh> Doh!
[15:31:42] <linux-cnc-bob> is it possible to put encoders on stepper motors and use them as feedback for position?
[15:31:44] <andypugh> http://imagebin.org/212615
[15:32:14] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: Yes. The problem is knowing what to do about it if there is a position loss.
[15:32:38] <linux-cnc-bob> i guess some code to adjust the servo drive would be necessary
[15:33:24] <cncjerry> generally, once they are out of sync it is too late.
[15:34:17] <cncjerry> my servo system has a band of about 20 pules which I think works out to 20/8000 of an inch. maybe less.
[15:34:46] <andypugh> With a servo, you apply more current, and it recovers. With a stepper all you can do is step faster. But that reduces torque, which is exactly wrong.
[15:35:12] <linux-cnc-bob> "if the program is too big or small for your machine, change the scale #3" how do i do this?
[15:35:21] <djdelorie> andypugh: or linuxcnc could slow everything else down to let it catch up
[15:35:48] <cncjerry> yes, but if you already started a second axis move it is too late.
[15:35:52] <andypugh> djdelorie: I have thought about whether you could hook into the adaptive feed pin.
[15:36:38] <cradek> by the time you see the stall, you're already off the programmed path
[15:36:41] <cncjerry> you would need to make sure the prior moving axis is where it should be until you started the second axis feed which would be sort of like exact stop mode with one axis
[15:36:59] <archivist> I wonder if a stepper driver could safely up its drive current for short periods
[15:37:26] <cncjerry> on a stepper you have already lost the step so it doesn't matter how much current you give the next step
[15:37:54] <archivist> your feedback aer youw have to be withing a step
[15:38:08] <andypugh> archivist: I don't know of any variable-current stepper drives.
[15:38:38] <archivist> is it time we made one :)
[15:39:36] <cncjerry> you would need current feedback to determine it didn't move. something like ramping the current until it makes the encoder pulse
[15:41:08] <archivist> or an analogue to current driver and that send steps when the current drops to hold value
[15:41:22] <cncjerry> I've designed stepper drivers that all have current feedback and they all pulse at that current limit. The only reason to run them lower for some reason would be for energy savings.
[15:41:54] <cncjerry> so it would run hot unless it was doing a rapid without cut and then pulse lower, maybe.
[15:43:05] <archivist> I talking going over the normal current to increase the holding torque but reduce to below when it catches up, sort of bldc driver to a stepper
[15:43:14] <archivist> Im
[15:45:02] <andypugh> archivist: With a high-enough resolution encoder a stepper is a bldc
[15:45:06] <PCW> Its possible to drive step motors as servos but you need a fast drive current and phase angle control
[15:45:23] <PCW> but a 50 pole 2 phase bldc
[15:45:50] <mrsun> ahh my little X1 is cutting steel like a champ =)
[15:45:57] <djdelorie> if you had an encoder that has higher resolution than the stepper, it could be done
[15:46:21] <Connor> andypugh: That's cool, but, I want to mount a 4" chuck on 4" table..
[15:46:23] <andypugh> I have a feeling it has been done
[15:46:28] <Tom_itx> it would still need to be the same or similar count per rev
[15:46:37] <PCW> basically same FOC as as AC servos without the 2-3 3-2 phase transforms
[15:46:47] <andypugh> Connor: Err, yes, are you confusing me with archivist?
[15:46:51] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: the controller just needs to know the ratio
[15:47:45] <PCW> We do it with SoftDMC but you need about 30-50KHz current loop
[15:47:46] <Connor> andypugh: Ah, Sorry. you responded to the question first..
[15:49:06] <Connor> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1627
[15:49:10] <Connor> That's the one I have...
[15:51:13] <archivist> you can make your own adapter so you get two registers to get the chuck on axis
[15:51:30] <andypugh> Tom_itx: 3-jaw or 4-jaw?
[15:51:55] <andypugh> You can just drill holes through a 4-jaw
[15:51:56] <Connor> archivist: Issue was mounting them back to back to back.
[15:52:17] <Connor> I was planning on using a 3 jaw.
[15:52:23] <Tom_itx> huh?
[15:52:36] <andypugh> You can drill through them too, but it doesn't turn out well :-)
[15:52:55] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Wrong tab-completion
[15:53:00] <Tom_itx> is the whole channel confused today?
[15:53:02] <Tom_itx> :D
[15:53:42] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: but 43 is better, like we said last century plaid zebra.
[15:54:24] <andypugh> djdelorie: I think that would be an Okapi.
[15:54:40] <Tom_itx> i won't try to deciper that since i just awoke from a nap
[16:00:56] <DJ9DJ> gn9
[16:01:31] <Jymmm> gn8
[16:14:51] <frallzor> woh finally, a connection to the interweb
[16:15:57] <djdelorie> all your pipes are belong to nobody
[16:17:08] <Tom_itx> you must have stolen jt's
[16:17:17] <frallzor> indeed!
[16:17:27] <djdelorie> that was NOT intentional! Honest!
[16:18:08] <Jymmm> There might be hope for my DP after all... http://www.machinistblog.com/restoring-a-craftsman-15%E2%80%B3-drill-press/
[16:18:44] <Jymmm> IT"S AN INVASION!!! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
[16:18:45] <frallzor> too much play?
[16:19:03] <Jymmm> frallzor: Yeah, but only when you lower the quill
[16:19:31] <frallzor> sounds like my cheapo DP =) never really thought It could be fixed
[16:19:42] <frallzor> might look at it now though
[16:20:44] <Jymmm> Me neither, but I'll have to break it down to confirm. I might check the quill adjustement (didn't know such a thing existed) first though
[16:28:58] <andypugh> I am not sure that it is a true adjustment. It seems to be the anti-rotation peg.
[16:30:31] <andypugh> You could bore the housing oversize and cast it with Turcite :-)
[16:33:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'd much rather just get/find/buy a "real" drillpress =)
[16:33:44] <andypugh> Meddings seem to make the best.
[16:33:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, and in regards to the waterproof fuse... I have metal cans with lids =)
[16:39:18] <andypugh> I take that back, I think the Meddings I used was built in Sweden by somebody else.
[16:45:22] <frallzor> good ole swedish quality =)
[16:58:26] <andypugh> I never really facnied Twitter. I think I still don't http://twitter.com/#!/sickboy_mcsatan
[17:02:07] <elmo40> Jymmm: get that part machined up?
[17:02:17] <Jymmm> what part?
[17:10:44] <alex4nder> gah
[17:10:50] <alex4nder> there's coolant on my desktop keyboard
[17:12:35] <jdhNC> life is good!
[17:27:30] <SolarNRG> Hi guys, I have some good news, my molding of a gear with platinum cure was highly successful. Here is a video to show you the results of both platinum cure molding and latex molding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGd5g5maDYc
[17:27:33] <SolarNRG> Enjoy
[17:27:40] <SolarNRG> I am very happy with what I've been able to make
[17:29:46] <alex4nder> what did you seal the mold with?
[17:31:10] <SolarNRG> I used a cake tin to pour the platinum cure in
[17:31:18] <SolarNRG> 10 percent by weight catalyst
[17:31:25] <SolarNRG> I gluegunned the gear onto the base of the tin
[17:31:27] <SolarNRG> I poured in
[17:31:31] <SolarNRG> I let it dry 24hrs
[17:31:34] <SolarNRG> I poured wax in
[17:31:37] <SolarNRG> I put it in the fridge
[17:31:40] <SolarNRG> I bent it out
[17:31:47] <SolarNRG> The gear is sooo much better than the latex copy
[17:31:51] <SolarNRG> and the mold is reusable
[17:31:52] <SolarNRG> latex is not
[17:32:28] <jdhNC> what is platinum cure?
[17:32:36] <SolarNRG> I'll give you a supplier list
[17:33:00] <SolarNRG> http://www.specialplasters.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=207
[17:33:11] <SolarNRG> ^^ is what I used to make GREAT reusable gear molds with
[17:37:36] <SolarNRG> I'm making wax gears to start off with as there isn't a hi-temp flexible reusable mold
[17:37:59] <SolarNRG> But I can coat the wax copies in molochite, a 1700ºc plaster capable of holding molten steel in
[17:38:21] <SolarNRG> To begin with I'm going to make a resistive furnace and melt aluminium in stainless containers and pour that in
[17:38:31] <jdhNC> I had a guy cast me some lead weights last week. He made a reusable silicone mold
[17:38:33] <SolarNRG> But one day I would like an induction furnace and pour steel in
[17:38:41] <SolarNRG> :)
[17:38:56] <SolarNRG> Its good stuff, it gets my 10********** of thumbs up approval!!!
[17:54:59] <r00t4rd3d> sweet, got my intel 525MW today and 4gig of mem for it
[17:55:46] <andypugh> SolarNRG: EAsy way to make a resistive furnace. You know how you should never put a conductive screw through the middle of a toroidal transformer, for fear of making a single shorted-turn? Do that on purpose and use a thin-wall stainless steel tube as the resistive element.
[17:56:10] <andypugh> Alternatively, 1kW halogen lamps are cheap.
[17:56:30] <SolarNRG> I have a stove top element
[17:56:35] <SolarNRG> dual element
[17:57:15] <SolarNRG> I was thinking of placing that at the base of my existing calcium silicate insulator box rated to 1600ºc and simply placing a stainless pot with beer cans in
[17:57:27] <SolarNRG> Wire it up outside
[17:57:32] <SolarNRG> Bolt crimp two wires
[17:57:39] <SolarNRG> Flick the switch with a broom handle from upstairs
[17:57:47] <SolarNRG> CO2 fire extinguisher at the ready :)
[17:57:57] <SolarNRG> Maybe using perlite around the box to keep it nice and toasty
[17:58:09] <andypugh> SolarNRG: You have a very nice speaking-voice, if I may say so. I bet Youtube auto-caption can actually cope. It thinks that I am talking about things like "wrinkled popes"
[17:58:47] <SolarNRG> wrinkled popes?
[17:59:01] <andypugh> Yeah.
[17:59:07] <SolarNRG> What is this?
[18:01:10] <andypugh> OK, look at this video: http://youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn4 and click the little "CC" icon at the bottom and select auto caption. It attempts to convert audio to text and makes a hilarously bad job of it.
[18:02:58] <SolarNRG> That is hopeless!
[18:04:02] <SolarNRG> Even mine is hopeless
[18:04:09] <SolarNRG> I see what you mean
[18:04:14] <SolarNRG> Voice to text is not good
[18:05:06] <andypugh> Isreal's cynthia lobo?
[18:05:18] <SolarNRG> Yeah WTF?
[18:05:33] <andypugh> We need someone with one of those bizzarre US accents.
[18:07:30] <r00t4rd3d> like Louisiana or Kentucky
[18:07:40] <r00t4rd3d> HEY YALL!
[18:08:38] <SolarNRG> Hiya R00t long time no c
[18:08:42] <SolarNRG> how u been?
[18:08:52] <r00t4rd3d> grat
[18:08:56] <r00t4rd3d> great*
[18:09:03] <r00t4rd3d> im always here
[18:09:11] <r00t4rd3d> lurking in the shadows
[18:09:37] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Do you have any youtube videos with you speaking in them? We are seeing if Youtube translation is universally poor, or just specialist.
[18:09:48] <r00t4rd3d> nope
[18:10:09] <r00t4rd3d> I dont have a accent though, im from NY
[18:10:16] <djdelorie> yes you do, then :-)
[18:10:59] <r00t4rd3d> we dont talk funny, the rest of the world does.
[18:11:49] <SolarNRG> Root I saw Avenue Q tonight its from NY do you know of it?
[18:11:52] <SolarNRG> It was very funny
[18:12:25] <r00t4rd3d> never heard of it
[18:14:02] <andypugh> Another way to make a furnace. I wanted to make a lead-melting pot. I calculated that there was not enough area to get enough resistance with a suitably power-rated resistance wire. So, I wrapped a 1:1 wire-space ratio of the wire round a section of nylon cable-puller, wrapped that round the crucible, smeared it all in B&Q fire-cement (Pyruma?) and then plugged it in to the mains. It took an hour or so for smoke and molt
[18:14:03] <andypugh> plastic to stop coming out the cracks, but it works fine now.
[18:14:09] <r00t4rd3d> I say Im from NY, who automatically assumes i mean New York City?
[18:14:46] <frallzor> not me, and Im swedish
[18:15:06] <r00t4rd3d> lol, most people do
[18:15:19] <frallzor> I assume you mean the state
[18:15:42] <SolarNRG> Upstate NY of course
[18:15:51] <SolarNRG> The nice bit
[18:16:04] * djdelorie went to school in Potsdam, 99% of "upstate" NY is south of there.
[18:16:14] <frallzor> Beverly Hills of the north?
[18:16:45] <djdelorie> The closest real city was in Canada
[18:17:02] <r00t4rd3d> im in the 1% then
[18:17:44] <djdelorie> you still have an accent ;-)
[18:18:15] <r00t4rd3d> prbably sounds more canadian then new york city
[18:22:07] <djdelorie> hey youze, eh?
[18:23:32] <andypugh> I got arrested in NY. Saratoga Springs.
[18:25:13] <SolarNRG> Don't the police arrest EVERYONE in the USA?
[18:25:30] <SolarNRG> you have 6 million in jail there, it makes the UK's 87,000 seem tiny
[18:29:01] <djdelorie> SolarNRG: thyst just patrol the borders and don't let us out
[18:30:02] <r00t4rd3d> I went to Oz Fest in Saratoga once.
[18:30:18] <r00t4rd3d> spac
[18:31:18] <SolarNRG> You're prisoners in the USA
[18:31:41] <r00t4rd3d> my 12 gauge says not
[18:31:56] <SolarNRG> Not being funny, but if your country doesn't take open source ecology seriously the USA is going to collapse from within.
[18:32:07] <SolarNRG> I've been out to Texas
[18:32:21] <SolarNRG> Very wasteful
[18:32:30] <SolarNRG> Not efficient
[18:32:40] <r00t4rd3d> texas is not a good reference for USA
[18:32:53] <SolarNRG> Texas wants to be an independent nation
[18:32:54] <r00t4rd3d> bunch of backwood rednecks
[18:33:05] <SolarNRG> I shot my first gun there!
[18:33:06] <SolarNRG> handgun
[18:33:18] <r00t4rd3d> you can get one at mcdonalds
[18:33:21] <r00t4rd3d> with a happy meal
[18:33:35] <r00t4rd3d> in texas
[18:33:47] <SolarNRG> Hell's Angels backyard, he even let me ride his harley for a few minutes
[18:34:00] <SolarNRG> I brought it back in one piece and I lived to tell the tale
[18:34:01] <r00t4rd3d> what can you do in a few minutes?
[18:34:07] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[18:34:13] <SolarNRG> Went up and down this flat strip of road
[18:34:20] <SolarNRG> Did about 75mph on it
[18:34:33] <SolarNRG> He was proud his bike didn't have a "limiter" on it
[18:34:39] <SolarNRG> An alien concept in Europe
[18:34:46] <SolarNRG> We dont' have speed limiters over here
[18:34:52] <r00t4rd3d> here either
[18:35:10] <r00t4rd3d> ive never heard of one
[18:35:13] <r00t4rd3d> more so on a harley
[18:35:20] <alex4nder> they don't have speed limiters on bikes or cars here
[18:35:43] <r00t4rd3d> it would be the first thing people removed
[18:37:13] <SolarNRG> Perhaps that's just Texas, I can't judge a country 10x the size of Britain by one little bit of it
[18:37:19] <SolarNRG> Didn't see the rest of the USA
[18:37:38] <SolarNRG> All I was told was Little Rock Arkansas was a place to be afraid of
[18:37:48] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[18:37:52] <r00t4rd3d> candy land
[18:38:06] <SolarNRG> ??
[18:38:10] <SolarNRG> Why that name?
[18:38:37] <r00t4rd3d> its a kids game
[18:38:51] <SolarNRG> I don't understand
[18:39:48] <r00t4rd3d> little rock is not scary at all
[18:40:37] <r00t4rd3d> bill clinton was born there
[18:43:40] <r00t4rd3d> Im getting a Canon 1000D Friday.
[18:44:57] <frallzor> Im getting a free computer system for a htpc =P
[18:45:29] <r00t4rd3d> im building a new computer as we speak :)
[18:45:40] <r00t4rd3d> was not free though
[18:45:48] <frallzor> im cadding a chassis as we speak, not fun atm =P
[18:46:02] <r00t4rd3d> i dont know what that means
[18:46:19] <frallzor> using CAD-software to make a chassis design
[18:46:27] <frallzor> or case =)
[18:46:33] <r00t4rd3d> oh okay7
[18:47:00] <frallzor> so much one want to do but cant due to lack of machines and tools
[18:47:15] <r00t4rd3d> now i can finally run 10.04
[18:47:18] <frallzor> bet Im getting a sheet metal brake at least
[18:47:42] <r00t4rd3d> i have a break at work
[18:47:51] <r00t4rd3d> not mine but i can use it anytime
[18:49:01] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/sLeFd.jpg
[18:49:22] <Jymmm> Clinton was a good pres, he just got caught is all =)
[18:49:34] <linux-cnc-bob> hi
[18:49:38] <linux-cnc-bob> im back
[18:49:51] <linux-cnc-bob> im bob
[18:50:00] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[18:50:06] <Jymmm> is that a threat or warning?
[18:50:21] <r00t4rd3d> probably both
[18:50:23] <frallzor> im scared
[18:50:24] <linux-cnc-bob> my Z axis is backwards!
[18:50:35] <Jymmm> negate it
[18:50:37] <r00t4rd3d> is there not a invert!
[18:50:51] <frallzor> might need a blowtorch for it
[18:50:53] <Jymmm> in your config
[18:50:55] <linux-cnc-bob> is it in milltest.hal?
[18:50:59] <cncjerry> hello again
[18:51:09] <linux-cnc-bob> milltest.ini?
[18:51:38] <Jymmm> try it, but backup your file(s)before editing
[18:51:43] <linux-cnc-bob> net zdir <= stepgen.2.dir
[18:51:44] <frallzor> I allways use the wizard if there isnt any special Ive edited manually
[18:51:45] <Jymmm> just in casae =)
[18:51:45] <linux-cnc-bob> should that be
[18:51:47] <linux-cnc-bob> net zdir <= stepgen.2.dir invert?
[18:51:48] <cncjerry> so I was able to get linuxcnc up and installed on a new drive. I copied over my emc 2.2.8 config file and am working thru some AXIS startup errors
[18:52:04] <r00t4rd3d> when you run that stepper config I think it has a Invert check box.
[18:52:13] <Jymmm> linux-cnc-bob: No,, in the stepping, something like 16000, make it -16000
[18:52:14] <r00t4rd3d> or i could be high
[18:52:18] <cncjerry> anyone point me at what my be giving me cannot find -sec mot -var mot?
[18:52:45] <cncjerry> in the ini there is a section called emcmot but all that looks correct vs a sample i have
[18:53:01] <linux-cnc-bob> setp stepgen.2.dirhold 70000
[18:53:03] <linux-cnc-bob> setp stepgen.2.dirsetup 70000
[18:53:07] <linux-cnc-bob> so negate those two maybe?
[18:53:34] <Jymmm> should be one entry per axis iirc
[18:54:07] <Jymmm> scale
[18:54:23] <Jymmm> linux-cnc-bob: scale = blah, make it scale = -blah
[18:55:23] <linux-cnc-bob> hmm
[18:55:25] <linux-cnc-bob> I see this line:
[18:55:27] <linux-cnc-bob> setp stepgen.2.position-scale [AXIS_2]SCALE
[18:57:37] <linux-cnc-bob> where can i enter scale = -
[18:58:42] <cncjerry> cradek ?
[19:02:11] <linux-cnc-bob> are you guys fucking STUUPID?
[19:04:48] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[19:08:31] <andypugh> Ah, he left. The answer was, in the INI file….
[19:20:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: You dot know, your STUUPID, remember?
[19:20:06] <Jymmm> dont
[19:20:09] <r00t4rd3d> hmm so I just realized my new 525mw has no ide ports :/
[19:20:46] <andypugh> It bothers me when it looks like a new guy gets hacked off and gives up.
[19:21:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, when you get that kind of response, I'm glad he left
[19:22:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: If I want that kind of abuse, I'll do IT
[19:23:05] <Tom_itx> probably a kid
[19:24:47] <Jymmm> 20¢ for soapstone, that's too damn expensive!
[19:28:14] <Jymmm> cpresser: Man, I really have to thank you for the soapstone idea. It's cheap, easy to get, and exactly the size i need =)
[19:29:54] <Jymmm> cpresser: now, I just have to see if it actually works =) lol
[19:45:48] <SolarNRG> Beddy byes for snoozey pies!!!
[21:20:17] <r00t4rd3d> this intel 525 is pretty quick for what it is
[21:21:35] <Tom_itx> i like mine
[21:21:57] <Tom_itx> wish i had a spare
[21:22:15] <r00t4rd3d> they are cheap
[21:22:26] <r00t4rd3d> buy another
[21:22:46] <jdhNC> I'm thinking about it.
[21:22:54] <r00t4rd3d> i got 4gig of memory for 15 bucks lol
[21:23:09] <jdhNC> need another amazon gift card
[21:23:12] <Tom_itx> ebay?
[21:23:12] <PCW> the d2700mud should be even a little faster
[21:23:15] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[21:23:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/360457553475?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[21:23:32] <r00t4rd3d> he has more
[21:25:20] <jdhNC> I was planning on mounting the atom board in my enclosure, but no good way to mount the disk
[21:25:30] <r00t4rd3d> what do i use the mini pcie x1 slot for?
[21:25:53] <jdhNC> wifi?
[21:25:59] <Tom_itx> maybe mesa will make a card for it soon
[21:26:00] <Tom_itx> :D
[21:26:18] <r00t4rd3d> is that all they make for mini pcie is wireless cards?
[21:26:40] <jdhNC> sata/ssd
[21:27:01] <Tom_itx> mount it to an aluminum angle
[21:27:23] <jdhNC> this 'huge' enclosure keeps getting smaller
[21:27:55] <Tom_itx> not sure if it was intended to go there but i put mine on it's side: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom2.jpg
[21:30:55] <r00t4rd3d> what case is that ?
[21:31:55] <r00t4rd3d> APEX MI-008
[21:32:00] <r00t4rd3d> nvm
[21:33:18] <Tom_itx> cheap
[21:33:32] <alex4nder> http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure
[21:33:35] <alex4nder> that case is great
[21:34:05] <Tom_itx> will it hold a full size card?
[21:34:28] <Tom_itx> or just half size
[21:34:36] <r00t4rd3d> no size
[21:34:38] <alex4nder> height? with a riser, full size.
[21:34:48] <alex4nder> if your MB is thin enough
[21:35:02] <alex4nder> like a DN2800MT
[21:35:36] <Tom_itx> the heatsink is rather tall on the intel one
[21:35:39] <alex4nder> ah
[21:35:43] <alex4nder> my setup is this
[21:35:44] <alex4nder> http://www.mini-box.com/I-O-shield-and-riser-card-for-DN2800MT
[21:37:11] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[21:37:26] <jdhNC> that's what I have.
[21:37:51] <alex4nder> yah, you'd need a full height riser for that
[21:37:58] <alex4nder> to clear the ports, let alone the heatsink
[21:38:10] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[21:38:18] <Tom_itx> i think i paid 39 for my case
[21:38:23] <Tom_itx> on sale
[21:38:29] <alex4nder> nice
[21:38:32] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/200708342703?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[21:38:34] <r00t4rd3d> 49
[21:39:32] <PCW> I think ths is a pretty much exact (updated) replacement http://www.logicsupply.com/products/d2700mud?gclid=CIKPiPuihrACFUkaQgodYBIDnQ of the d525
[21:39:51] <alex4nder> yup
[21:40:24] <alex4nder> lower power consumption, but shittier graphics
[21:40:40] <alex4nder> well, shittier support for the graphics hardware... the hardware is better
[21:40:55] <PCW> same graphics as 2800?
[21:40:58] <alex4nder> yup
[21:41:08] <alex4nder> "GMA 3650"
[21:41:53] <PCW> did you have any problem with the video?
[21:42:04] <PCW> problems
[21:42:12] <alex4nder> functionally no, but performance definitely could be better
[21:42:20] <alex4nder> I'm running full res, but with the vesa driver.
[21:42:27] <alex4nder> software opengl, etc.
[21:42:29] <PCW> ahh
[21:42:49] <PCW> may get sorted out in time
[21:42:53] <alex4nder> other than that, the dn2800mt is a fantastic board
[21:43:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lian-Li-PC-Q11B-Black-Aluminum-Mini-ITX-Tower-Case-/110788591945?pt=US_Computer_Cases&hash=item19cb83c149
[21:43:15] <r00t4rd3d> probably one of the best mini itx cases ive seen
[21:43:18] <alex4nder> PCW: I put an mSATA SSD, and intel wifi card in it, and the whole thing is just as thin as it is stock.
[21:43:29] <alex4nder> so no space used on an internal drive
[21:43:40] <alex4nder> and room for a full-height PCIe card
[21:43:45] <PCW> i like that it has a intel MAC
[21:43:52] <alex4nder> yah, that's a plus
[21:45:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lian-Li-PC-Q25B-Black-Aluminum-Mini-Tower-Mini-ITX-Computer-Case-/270954636730?pt=US_Computer_Cases&hash=item3f1627a5ba
[21:46:37] <PCW> so with that riser you can add a second parallel port or a 6I25 :-)
[21:48:34] <alex4nder> PCW: exactly
[21:48:50] <alex4nder> so now we just need better video drivers. :/
[21:51:39] <PCW> Intel must make some info avaliable since the previous chipset is supported
[21:52:33] <alex4nder> the new chipset is PowerVR-based, so Imagination Technologies owns the IP. :/
[21:52:38] <alex4nder> apparently someone is a dumbass at intel
[21:53:02] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna put a pci video card in mine
[21:53:14] <PCW> I always think Power Rangers when I see that
[21:53:19] <alex4nder> haha
[21:53:29] <PCW> bbl ttgh
[21:55:19] <r00t4rd3d> time to get high?
[21:55:55] <r00t4rd3d> when isnt it time?
[21:56:01] <alex4nder> while operating heavy machinery
[21:56:53] <r00t4rd3d> construction workers are some of the biggest druggies on the planet
[21:57:05] <alex4nder> yah, not a good thing
[21:57:58] <r00t4rd3d> i could build you a million dollar mansion baked out of my head and it would be perfect.
[21:58:08] <alex4nder> alright
[21:58:17] <r00t4rd3d> i need the million up front
[21:59:30] <alex4nder> no can do, druggie. you might run off with my money
[22:02:26] <r00t4rd3d> i like pot not prison
[22:25:54] <niteghost> hi
[22:26:02] <jackc> hi
[22:27:00] <niteghost> i have a question on pc hardware for a new setup
[22:28:17] <niteghost> can anyone help me to choose a good agp card that workes with rtai ?
[22:39:56] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/AtERspSCQAAx2r4.jpg:large
[23:03:26] <Connor> ReadError: What's that for ?
[23:12:07] <Jymmm> motor mounts is what they look like to me
[23:12:19] <Jymmm> NEMA23 ?
[23:12:26] <Connor> Yea.. I was wondering if it's for his conversion... or what..
[23:12:28] <Jymmm> no, NEMA 17
[23:25:00] <niteghost> can anyone help me to choose pc hardware that workes with rtai ?
[23:26:18] <pcw_home> the Intel Atom based motherboards are popular
[23:26:56] <niteghost> i have some old stuff with agp
[23:27:13] <niteghost> for a first try
[23:27:51] <niteghost> e.g. amd xp2500 with 1 gram
[23:28:03] <Jymmm> For $80 you can get the whole thing that is known to work http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[23:28:13] <Jymmm> less ram/drives
[23:28:33] <Jymmm> or spend $40 - $80 for an anicent video card
[23:28:49] <pcw_home> Well download the LiveCD and run the latency test that will tell you
[23:29:29] <Jymmm> PCW: he has no video card it seems and wants suggestions for an AGP video card that works with linuxcnc
[23:30:09] <niteghost> i have a x1950 but needs fglrx to be good
[23:30:36] <pcw_home> linux CNC doesnt ask much of the video
[23:30:58] <pcw_home> (ok with decent PCI video cards)
[23:31:17] <niteghost> but i is said that timing depends on it
[23:31:34] <niteghost> - i +it
[23:32:08] <niteghost> is it better to use scsi than ide ?
[23:32:32] <r00t4rd3d> faster
[23:34:06] <niteghost> then i first use my old firegl 1 card and see wat happens
[23:36:01] <pcw_home> with latency, o much depends on the specific hardware and driver that you really have to try it and see
[23:36:10] <pcw_home> so much
[23:36:50] <niteghost> ok thanks