#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-11

[00:01:11] <joe9> do you remember the cpu socket?
[00:01:27] <joe9> i think atom uses socket 441
[00:01:28] <Thetawaves> no
[00:01:30] <joe9> from wiki.
[00:01:48] <joe9> for the celeron, I think the pentium uses the same socket.
[00:02:14] <joe9> will have to check if I can just get a pentium cpu, vs buying a motherboard + atom cpu.
[00:02:53] <joe9> Thetawaves: any experiences with Pentium or Pentium D cpu's?
[00:02:55] <Thetawaves> it cost me 180 for the whole computer
[00:03:05] <Thetawaves> nope
[00:07:49] <joe9> Thetawaves: oh, really. 180 is not that expensive, compared with how much the other parts of the mill cost.
[00:08:31] <Thetawaves> exactly
[00:08:51] <Thetawaves> and i got 2 gigs of ram in that machine
[00:08:55] <Thetawaves> WAY more than it needs
[00:11:19] <joe9> Thetawaves: where did you buy that pc?
[00:11:47] <joe9> Thetawaves: with the atom pc, do you ever get the message about latency while using linuxcnc?
[01:59:15] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:37:03] <Tectu> hello DJ9DJ
[02:58:04] <alex4nder> yoh
[03:00:37] <alex4nder> ReadError_: the greatest jitter I saw with my N2800 was 5.4 uS
[05:50:45] <r00t4rd3d> wood
[06:04:56] <micges> metal
[06:05:36] <awallin> plastic fantastic
[06:07:04] <jthornton> titanium
[06:27:25] <alex_joni> tungsten
[06:31:40] <jthornton> Illudium PU-36
[06:45:03] <alex_joni> at least it's not kryptonite
[06:54:24] <Loetmichel> unobtanium :)
[07:03:09] <A1Sheds> hmmm, the A/D boards by Mesa are all PC104, anyone have suggestions for A/D cards or USB dongles with EMC support?
[07:04:09] <awallin> A1Sheds: what do you want A/D for? The mesa digital IO can be used (e.g. pulse-widht, pulse-rate) if you don't need that accurate AD
[07:05:46] <A1Sheds> awallin: are there low cost A/D modules with PWM/freq output?
[07:06:06] <A1Sheds> I can build them, but I'm trying to avoid that
[07:06:18] <awallin> A1Sheds: not sure.. I looked at a current-sensing (A/D over shunt resistor) chip from IRF once..
[07:07:05] <A1Sheds> I'm using them to measure temperature and pressure on a machine
[07:07:33] <A1Sheds> 16bits would be nice
[07:07:43] <awallin> or maybe someone wrote an I2C driver for mesa/fpga ?
[07:08:26] <jthornton> doesn't skunkworks use an arduino to measre temperature on the K&T?
[07:08:29] <micges> awallin: for what devices?
[07:09:08] <awallin> micges: I was thinking you could use cheap sensor-chips with an I2C interface and hook them up to custom mesa firmware+dirver. maybe.
[07:09:16] <A1Sheds> there is some arduino support over USB
[07:09:44] <micges> awallin: interesting
[07:09:50] <A1Sheds> that might be the avenue to expand since the A/D is not real time
[07:11:30] <A1Sheds> http://ckcnc.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/arduino-emc-integration-how-it-works/
[07:12:25] <A1Sheds> http://reprap.org/wiki/EMC_Arduino
[07:29:31] <alex_joni> micges: I guess there are SPI A/D chips which could be made to work with mesa SPI?
[07:30:45] <micges> I think it's possible
[07:31:16] <A1Sheds> using what SPI card?
[07:31:17] <micges> but Andy is expert of mesa spi
[07:34:37] <alex_joni> A1Sheds: a new one
[07:34:51] <A1Sheds> 7i46 or ?
[07:35:18] <A1Sheds> 7i50
[07:35:37] <alex_joni> A1Sheds: the only AD card I know from mesa is teh THCAD (for plasma THC)
[07:36:04] <Jymmm> !!! THC !!!
[07:36:45] <alex_joni> it should probably work even with a 5i25
[07:36:58] <A1Sheds> I'd like to expand LinuxCNC to control machines that are not tools, things like extruders and injection molding etc
[07:37:05] <alex_joni> A1Sheds: but wait for andypugh or pcw (from mesa)
[07:37:10] <jthornton> it does work with a 5i25/7i76
[07:37:23] <alex_joni> or just drop a link to the devel list, or directly to mesa
[07:38:00] <A1Sheds> he mentioned voltage to freq and using the PWM inputs
[07:38:15] <A1Sheds> but we need AD over SPI or USB
[07:38:39] <Jymmm> O_o
[07:39:27] <alex_joni> the THCAD does frequency to voltage conv.
[07:39:39] <alex_joni> 10bits @ 1kHz
[07:39:48] <Jymmm> alex_joni: over SPI/USB?
[07:39:59] <A1Sheds> I'm trying to find it at the Mesa site
[07:40:15] <alex_joni> http://www.mesanet.com/aiodaughter.html
[07:40:16] <alex_joni> last one
[07:50:26] <A1Sheds> only 1 channel of A/D
[07:51:02] <A1Sheds> might be handy for it's intended applications
[07:51:30] <A1Sheds> I'd need 8 -16 for an extruder
[07:52:32] <A1Sheds> there might be 6-8 heat zones in a barrel
[07:53:42] <A1Sheds> i have to check on the SPI drivers
[07:54:24] <A1Sheds> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SPI_Sub-Driver_For_Hostmot2
[08:08:25] <jthornton> the 1" x 24" long extruder's I had only had 2 zones on the barrel and a few more down the piping, might have been better with 3 zones
[08:10:08] <jthornton> would have been much better if I knew about drying hoppers back then...
[08:10:24] <A1Sheds> moisture issues?
[08:10:51] <A1Sheds> I saw a video of somebody trying to extrude a very wet resin
[08:11:10] <A1Sheds> came out of the nozzle like foam
[08:11:23] <A1Sheds> steam bubbles
[08:18:14] <A1Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqogj3CQXI8 you can see that you just don't measure the temp in the barrel zones, but also in an external heat exchanger
[08:24:35] <Jymmm> spi? usb? AD/ linuxcnc all for an extruder???? Bah, aint nuttin more than a hot melt glue gun and a play doh fun factory http://yummymummyno1.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/hpim0288.jpg
[08:25:11] <Jymmm> evena kid could do it!
[08:25:19] <Jymmm> ages 3+
[08:25:48] <A1Sheds> yeah, that's it, only more expensive
[08:26:07] <A1Sheds> nothing gets past you Jymmm :)
[08:26:18] <Jymmm> if ya paid more than $12, you got ripped off
[08:27:00] <A1Sheds> I wish that all products came with info in 12 languages
[08:27:09] <Jymmm> A1Sheds: you have both extruder and mold injection?
[08:27:25] <A1Sheds> Jymmm: we build custom machines
[08:27:38] <A1Sheds> lab protos etc
[08:27:56] <Jymmm> so not operate them or make dies?
[08:28:11] <A1Sheds> we can make dies
[08:28:40] <A1Sheds> we only run them to test either the new type of machine or the new type of plastic
[08:28:45] <Jymmm> thermoset or aluminum extrustion
[08:29:21] <A1Sheds> either + thermoplastics and elastomers
[08:29:51] <A1Sheds> we mostly work on new materials
[08:30:44] <Jymmm> what is the biggest bitch with a dies profile?
[08:30:57] <Jymmm> thick walls?
[08:31:35] <A1Sheds> bad designs
[08:31:49] <Jymmm> but what makes it a bad design?
[08:32:21] <A1Sheds> mostly thin walls over too long a distance
[08:32:46] <A1Sheds> you can machine about anything but will it actually work in production
[08:32:52] <Jymmm> and what does that do?
[08:32:56] <JT-Shop> A1Sheds: yea mosture issues with the plastic as we only had 110% humidity in New Orleans all the time almost
[08:33:35] <JT-Shop> cold cut was the worst as it was talc filled and would suck up the water
[08:45:06] <A1Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE_KTLlrdMA&feature=related @1:10 you can see a typical old school control panel with 10 heat controllers
[08:46:53] <JT-Shop> this is similar to what we had http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtyHFKE_Y2k
[08:47:59] <JT-Shop> but ours were of a much simpler design
[08:48:32] <A1Sheds> never saw a feed rate in NPM (nails per minute)
[08:49:15] <JT-Shop> this is the whole process http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUTTmtLKD2g
[08:50:15] <JT-Shop> we had a whole row of the purple machines that made nails
[08:50:23] <A1Sheds> so they arent forged :)
[08:50:42] <JT-Shop> cold headed
[08:51:43] <A1Sheds> @1:50 slow mo of the cut
[08:51:46] <Jymmm> A1Sheds: you have any suggestion on thermo sealing paper thin walled PP tubing?
[08:52:12] <A1Sheds> what dia tube?
[08:52:18] <Jymmm> 1/2"
[08:52:44] <A1Sheds> sealed like a polybag?
[08:53:03] <Jymmm> Like a toothpaste tube (crimp) maybe.
[08:53:14] <Jymmm> maybe no crimp if it's a pita
[08:53:36] <Jymmm> and maybe two sheets of paper thin walls =)
[08:53:40] <A1Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHTcEq6_W74
[08:54:24] <A1Sheds> polybags are often thin wall PP film
[08:54:33] <Jymmm> I tried a 400W impulse sealer like 8x, didn't even do anything
[08:54:34] <A1Sheds> few mills
[08:55:07] <Jymmm> .7mm wall thickness (about)
[08:55:13] <A1Sheds> what rate? tubes per minute etc
[08:55:54] <Jymmm> I'd like 1 every 3-5 seconds, but I'm open
[08:57:29] <A1Sheds> more power for that thickness
[08:58:23] <Jymmm> ok. Right now I'm using needle nose pliers and a candle to seal the ends
[08:58:37] <A1Sheds> sounds good
[08:58:56] <Jymmm> panfully slow
[08:59:00] <Jymmm> painfully
[08:59:05] <A1Sheds> i hope it's a natural paraffin candle
[08:59:25] <Jymmm> why's that?
[08:59:35] <A1Sheds> jk
[08:59:48] <A1Sheds> have you looked for used bag sealers?
[08:59:48] <Jymmm> oh, heh. Just beats a lighter is all =)
[09:00:07] <Jymmm> Impulse sealer, yep. dont work
[09:00:53] <Jymmm> tried 5x @ 8seconds on the timer. didn't even mark it
[09:01:01] <A1Sheds> you are at 0.7mm
[09:01:28] <A1Sheds> most small bag sealers are for 1/4 that
[09:01:30] <Jymmm> about that, 1.2mm for both walls squished flat
[09:01:43] <A1Sheds> and you are at 0.7mm x 2
[09:01:54] <Jymmm> but the impulse sealer only had heater on one side, not both
[09:02:16] <A1Sheds> try a larger unit with heat on both sides
[09:02:24] <A1Sheds> or at least a larger unit
[09:02:41] <A1Sheds> how wide was it?
[09:02:56] <Jymmm> There's only one (retail) that I found and it's a 6" wide hand held crimp sealer.
[09:03:25] <Jymmm> the impulse sealer I tried was 8" @ 400W, so about 30W/in
[09:04:29] <A1Sheds> was there a thermostat you could set?
[09:04:47] <Jymmm> Timer 1-8 seconds
[09:05:20] <A1Sheds> and 8 seconds wasn't long enough? if so then it just wasn't getting hot enough
[09:05:59] <Jymmm> I have about 100K of various diameter NiChrome wire (no strip), so I might try making something
[09:06:12] <Jymmm> 100k ft
[09:06:13] <A1Sheds> that should work
[09:06:45] <Jymmm> Yeah, just need to get some teflon fabric and maybe phenolic ($$$$$)
[09:07:00] <A1Sheds> teflon coating
[09:07:10] <A1Sheds> cut a bake pan
[09:07:31] <Jymmm> No, actual teflon fabric
[09:07:57] <Jymmm> non stick + electrical insulator
[09:08:04] <A1Sheds> you don't want the teflon too thick so it acts as an insulator
[09:08:06] <Jymmm> like used on the impuls sealers
[09:08:50] <A1Sheds> sounds like you'll make it work
[09:10:03] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1-roll-PTFE-Teflon-Adhesive-Tape-Nonstick-0-13mmx15mmx10m-/120846064363?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c22fc9aeb
[09:10:18] <Jymmm> that goes below the heating element
[09:10:56] <Jymmm> this goes above http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTFE-Teflon-1-1-4-Wide-x-36-yd-long-x-5-MIL-Thick-Roll-Heat-Seal-Fabric-Cloth-/280869045975?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41651986d7
[09:12:01] <Jymmm> as shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JV5RXz9Nf4
[09:12:03] <A1Sheds> electric range or hotplate heat elements
[09:12:19] <Jymmm> oh no, too thick
[09:13:52] <A1Sheds> I'm looking for hoppers'r'us
[09:14:06] <Jymmm> I just wish I could find the silicon strip, it's about 1/8"
[09:14:10] <A1Sheds> 10 gal spun or welded hoppers
[09:14:13] <Jymmm> to feed pellets?
[09:14:17] <A1Sheds> yes
[09:14:37] <A1Sheds> somebody must just make hoppers
[09:14:48] <Jymmm> old wine vats?
[09:14:53] <A1Sheds> silicon strip, what dimmensions?
[09:15:16] <Jymmm> 1/2" wide x 1/8" thick
[09:15:57] <Jymmm> it's used as an anvil on the impulse sealer upper arm
[09:16:41] <A1Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Rubber-Sheets-6-5x6-5x-125-/200710627543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebb4920d7
[09:17:36] <A1Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Rubber-Silicon-FDA-Black-Mat-Sheet-3mm-Thick-X-170mm-X-200mm-Brand-New-/320882911689?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4ab61ca9c9
[09:18:12] <Jymmm> thanks
[09:18:21] <A1Sheds> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Silicone-Rubber-Sheet-1-8-x-12-x-12-Smooth-ZZ-R-765-Grd-70-5330006302348-/120888422651?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2582f0fb
[09:18:32] <A1Sheds> assuming you can cut it to size :)
[09:19:18] <A1Sheds> Jymmm: how did the laser cutter air filter work out?
[09:19:30] <Jymmm> Got razor blade, but I'm wondering why none of them are the "clear" silicon
[09:19:41] <A1Sheds> or mold it yourself
[09:20:22] <A1Sheds> laser cut a strip out of some sheet as a mold
[09:22:08] <Jymmm> the air scrubber? Initially I want the blower IN the same enclosure, but that didn't work out as the desinty of the pellets was too much. I've since pulled the blower out and haven't had a chance to redesign the innerards to accomidate the less denstiy of pellets into thinner layers.
[09:22:56] <Jymmm> you would never think pellets could affect airflow as much as they did
[09:23:05] <A1Sheds> the #1 complaint from laser cutter users indoors
[09:23:46] <Jymmm> heh, the pellets DO work that's for sure.
[09:24:55] <Jymmm> MY issue is I designed it for one thing, and having to dramatically make changes to have thinner layers
[09:25:15] <Jymmm> in a VERY tight physical area
[09:26:38] <Jymmm> so I've been exhausting to outdoors =)
[09:38:52] <A1Sheds> Mesa 6I25, is that the new one?
[09:39:37] <micges> A1Sheds: yes
[09:39:53] <A1Sheds> micges, did you recall the price?
[09:39:58] <A1Sheds> <$100?
[09:40:27] <micges> it should be very simmilar to 5i25
[09:40:32] <A1Sheds> i knew he was working on a lower cost PCIe card
[10:03:43] <ctjctj> I just spent way to much time trying to get the bed of my cnc router to match the axis. Turns out that I have about 50/1000 of a tilt over 15 inches that I can't adjust out. I was hoping that there as a rotate coordinate system to fix this. G68 doesn't seem to be there and G10 L2 only does xy rotations...
[10:05:07] <cradek> there's not a gcode that will fix that
[10:16:18] <skunkworks> kins would probably do it but it seems like fixing the hardware would be better...
[10:16:42] <cradek> no software solution can make your spindle perpendicular on that machine
[10:18:25] <alex4nder> hey
[10:19:16] <skunkworks> cradek: unless the axis can move in 2 rotory directions... ;)
[10:19:24] <skunkworks> *spindle
[10:20:13] <skunkworks> cradek: http://electronicsam.com/images/SawMill.JPG
[10:20:42] <cradek> that is a big band saw
[10:21:44] <skunkworks> dad and his brothers built that in the early 80's
[10:22:01] <cradek> cool
[10:22:25] <skunkworks> now - instead of a pinto 4cyl engine - it has a nice 20hp 3 phase motor.
[10:23:10] <skunkworks> We are actually thinking of cnc-ing it. 2 axis + spindle. (could be done with hal and a bit of glade for the most part I think)
[10:39:46] <Tom_itx> bet it's fun when that blade breaks
[10:40:36] <skunkworks> eh - it has saftey switches that shut stuff down. Also has a wire that gets cut if the blade starts moving off the wheels.
[10:40:52] <skunkworks> just goes BANG
[10:40:59] <djdelorie> "sproingle bangle fwap fwap fwap fwap"
[10:42:07] <skunkworks> something link that.. I don't know if I remember being around when a blade broke.
[10:55:20] <ctjctj> cradek: I can make the spindle perpendicular to the table. I've got enough adjustment for tilting the spindle. It is making the XY cutting plane parallel to the table. So it looks like I'll need to adjust the table some way. So much fun.
[10:55:49] <Tom_itx> djdelorie, that sounds more like another foiled attempt of coyote trying to catch the road runner
[10:55:57] <ctjctj> And once this is done it is time to remake the darn machine so that does have enough adjustment to get it right.
[10:56:05] <djdelorie> some of my own failures have felt that way
[11:00:51] <archivist> ctjctj, use the spindle to cut the table to make it flat
[11:01:12] <ctjctj> Yeah, I'm about to that stage. :-(
[11:01:47] <archivist> not a bad thing, as it makes it accurate
[11:02:52] <ctjctj> I have shitty power to the garage where cnc is. Which means that cutting pine is not much of a problem but cutting the MDF requires me to stand there with the dust collector for an hour or two while things cut. (Power means that I can't trust the drivers)
[11:10:56] <archivist> ctjctj, you can use a fly cutter to get outside your normal cutting area
[11:23:09] <ctjctj> *nods*
[11:26:16] <ctjctj> something like these: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Fly-Cutter-Set-w-Tool-Bits-1-2-/H5935
[11:26:59] <archivist> yes, but I sometimes make my own
[11:27:19] <ctjctj> How do you make your own?
[11:28:23] <Tom_itx> http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/flycutter/flycutter-e.htm
[11:29:15] <archivist> ctjctj, one for thread cutting http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage6/p1010245.jpg
[11:30:08] <ctjctj> Out of my league right now. :( No mill, no lathe. Just the CNC router
[11:31:28] <archivist> if you can make the arbour from round bar all the other operations are drilling and tapping
[11:32:05] <archivist> I have used a drill as a lathe many years ago, terrible finish though
[11:32:44] <ScribbleJ> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:7868
[11:32:59] <ctjctj> *nods* Ok. Can handle that on the drill press. But for the time and cost to get to the fly cutter and then I have to deal with what is causing any issues as a flatten my table. Cheaper, easier, faster to buy the set I think.
[11:33:04] <ScribbleJ> http://staff.bath.ac.uk/ensab/replicator/Downloads/Afghan_lathe/Afghan_Lathe.html Sorry, guess that is a better link.
[11:44:34] <Connor> What is a good diameter for a fly cutter?
[11:45:08] <roycroft> big enough to do the work you need to do and small enough that your mill can handle it :)
[11:45:40] <Connor> Well.. I guess the question is.. what's the best fit for my mill then.. :)
[11:48:52] <andypugh> What sort of mill/
[11:48:53] <andypugh> ?
[11:49:00] <Connor> G0704
[11:49:32] <Connor> I think BF20 style/size over the pond..
[11:49:36] <andypugh> plastic gears?
[11:49:57] <Connor> I think it does have some yes... I plan to upgrade to belt drive at some point.
[11:50:15] <andypugh> Well, if you get a flycutter you will be upgrading sooner than you think.
[11:50:29] <Connor> Eh?
[11:50:40] <roycroft> i don't use fly cutters, personally
[11:51:01] <roycroft> i have a 3" carbide insert face cutter on my x3 and it works fine
[11:51:18] <roycroft> i don't go hogging 0.050" at at time with it
[11:51:21] <roycroft> at a
[11:51:25] <andypugh> flycutters cut very intermittently, and bang the same tooth every rev. Then it falls off.
[11:51:58] <roycroft> if you have a small mill you need to keep your feeds and speeds correct, but take light cuts
[11:51:58] <andypugh> Using a flycutter is why mine now has metal gears in the head.
[11:52:05] <djdelorie> I own a fly cutter. For my lathe. I'm not sure what the point is.
[11:52:23] <andypugh> And if I had known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done that either, as it is far too loud for comfort.
[11:53:07] <andypugh> It does depend how many flies you want to cut, and how big they are. Mosquitos are probably OK on a Mini-Mill, bluebottles probably not :-)
[11:54:00] <roycroft> bug zappers are more fun
[11:54:12] <roycroft> they're only noisy for a brief moment, when you know the thing is working
[11:54:21] <roycroft> you need good ventilation with a bug zapper, though
[11:55:17] <Connor> Mosquitos, bluebottles ??
[11:55:57] <andypugh> I was being whimsical, sorry.
[11:57:05] <andypugh> If your mill has plastic gears in the head, then I wouldn't use a flycutter. I did, and it broke.
[11:57:21] <andypugh> If the main gears in the head are metal, then it's probably fine.
[11:58:22] <andypugh> It does look like yours is a bigger, better machine than mine, so it might not apply.
[11:58:48] <Connor> Does it matter what your cutting with your statement? I primarily cut aluminum.
[11:59:43] <andypugh> Not really, the problem is that the gears unload while the cutter is cutting air, then bang together when the cutting tip enters the work.
[12:00:05] <andypugh> It's no problem at all with a vee-belt drive.
[12:07:31] <archivist> if the cut is light enough any mill should handle it
[12:07:50] <archivist> with the emphasis on light cut
[12:09:01] <roycroft> which is what i've been saying
[12:09:05] <archivist> and be careful about balance
[12:09:34] <roycroft> the only caveat being if it's a really large fly cutter you need to know if your mill can turn slowly enough to get the right speed
[12:10:08] <roycroft> if your lowest speed is 200rpm you might have trouble with a big fly cutter
[12:11:26] <archivist> routers are a "bit" too fast, will wear out the cutter(surface speed too high) and router bearings (balance)
[12:34:25] <cradek> even if you can tilt the spindle so it's perpendicular to the table, Z motion won't be
[12:35:25] <joe9> anyone have any luck with using a PIII for linuxcnc pc?
[12:36:01] <cradek> yeah they work fine, but sometimes it's hard to find ram (usually PC133) for them now
[12:36:15] <cradek> I used a dual PIII-1000 for a long time
[12:36:30] <cradek> I replaced it with a P4 which seems no faster
[12:38:06] <joe9> cradek: is PIII better than a celeron for latency purposes? I tried a celeron and it has latency spikes once a minute or so.
[12:38:23] <joe9> the celeron is not good enough for linuxcnc, atleast the one that I had.
[12:38:36] <cradek> celerons aren't good enough for anything
[12:38:39] <joe9> i am about to try with a PIII.
[12:39:08] <cradek> how much ram do you have for it?
[12:41:52] <Tom_itx> hah!
[12:42:10] <cradek> ?
[12:42:32] <Tom_itx> good for nothing
[12:43:10] <archivist> I use a P4 on one machine and an AMD 800 meg on the other
[12:43:16] <Loetmichel> joe9: the spikes are not the cpu
[12:43:30] <Loetmichel> thats a Fu** in the bios of the mainboard
[12:43:41] <Loetmichel> maybe poersafe-features
[12:43:47] <Loetmichel> most of the time
[12:43:48] <joe9> Loetmichel: oh, really.
[12:43:50] <cradek> the celerons were the crippled processors of the era
[12:44:01] <joe9> Loetmichel: good to know. thanks.
[12:44:20] <archivist> vegetable processor
[12:45:34] <Loetmichel> joe9: at least in fixed intervals repeating spikes in an otherwise capable system are normally issues with the bios
[12:45:57] <Loetmichel> NMI for powersafe or onboard-drivers badly programmed
[12:46:39] <Loetmichel> Notebooks are prone to do that, for obvious reasons (battery management and so on)
[12:46:45] <Loetmichel> especially IBM
[12:47:07] <Loetmichel> and thats the ereason why a notebook isnd THAT goog for LinuxCNC
[12:47:27] <Loetmichel> good
[12:47:27] <joe9> i am trying with a PIII http://codepad.org/vGNJKrvG now. let me see how it works.
[12:47:37] <joe9> an old machine that I had lying around.
[12:47:53] <Loetmichel> my new CPU for linuxCNC is a c2d ;-)
[12:48:02] <joe9> what is a "c2d"?
[12:48:07] <Loetmichel> core 2 duo
[12:48:14] <Loetmichel> 2.8 or 3ghz
[12:48:22] <Loetmichel> (dont remember)
[12:48:47] <joe9> i noticed that the cpu speed does not seem to be the issue. the issue seems mostly to do with some power management features or bad drivers.
[12:49:00] <joe9> or something else.
[12:49:02] <Loetmichel> joe9: more or less right
[12:49:30] <Loetmichel> but the cpu has to have a minimum power ;-)
[12:49:30] <joe9> i am hoping that with a PIII, I avoid the corner cases faced by the celeron and Amd.
[12:49:53] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[12:50:09] <Loetmichel> the new machine i am building for a co-worker has a p4 inside
[12:50:19] <Loetmichel> 3ghz
[12:50:44] <Loetmichel> but there is the non-existent-3d-power of the onboard graphics chip the issue i think
[12:52:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13089&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- sufficient, but could be better ;-)
[12:53:37] <joe9> Loetmichel: how much did the p4 cost? I might just use the p4 with the celeron socket.
[12:53:51] <Loetmichel> joe9: 0.0
[12:53:59] <Loetmichel> got it from the company
[12:54:04] <joe9> the socket seems to be the same for both.
[12:54:04] <Loetmichel> boss made a donation ;-)
[12:54:21] <Loetmichel> 'cause its the only board that tifs in the Machine base
[12:54:23] <ReadError_> i got a d525 board coming today
[12:54:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13113&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[12:54:34] <Loetmichel> ... like a glove
[12:54:36] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[12:55:00] <Loetmichel> itrs an industrial SBC
[12:55:11] <Loetmichel> with a passive backplane
[12:55:47] <Loetmichel> and the cpu/PSU fans are making a hell of a noise ;-)
[12:56:36] <joe9> is the machine i tried with: http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/compaq-presario-sr1110nx-celeron/1707-3118_7-31153489.html
[12:56:50] <Loetmichel> the PSU has 2 fans 40*40*25mm @ 6000 rpm...
[12:56:56] <Loetmichel> its like a starting F16 ;-)
[12:58:13] <Loetmichel> joe9: should be sufficient
[12:58:19] <Loetmichel> even as a celeron
[12:58:33] <Loetmichel> maybe not the best board fopr that.
[12:58:45] <Loetmichel> have you tried a dedicated graphics card?
[12:58:57] <Loetmichel> with an nvidia chipset?
[12:59:22] <joe9> it is not the graphics card. it was head-less.
[12:59:41] <joe9> could be the bios settings, though.
[13:00:03] <Loetmichel> joe9: you know that linuxCNC NEEDS basic 3d capabilities?
[13:00:13] <Loetmichel> for the axis display?
[13:00:40] <archivist> running it remote probably
[13:01:17] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[13:02:13] <joe9> Loetmichel: yes, running it remotely.
[13:02:25] <ReadError_> oh wow
[13:02:26] <ReadError_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT-1DU33xIk
[13:02:33] <ReadError_> very well done parody there
[13:03:36] <Loetmichel> joe9: as in rdp/vnc/x11 forwarding? or as in hal and servo thread on the celeron and axis and x11 on another machine?
[13:04:06] <joe9> yes.
[13:04:25] <Loetmichel> which one?
[13:04:52] * Loetmichel does vnc on the CNC sometimes...
[13:05:09] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[13:05:17] <Loetmichel> but i wouldnt reccomend that below a dualcore wth at least 2,5ghz ;-
[13:05:18] <Loetmichel> )
[13:05:21] <IchGuckLive> thunderstorm just left B)
[13:05:40] <joe9> Loetmichel: just the X11 on the remote machine.
[13:05:43] <IchGuckLive> joe9: ?
[13:05:44] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13060
[13:05:46] <Loetmichel> ah
[13:05:49] <Loetmichel> ok
[13:05:50] <joe9> ssh with X11 forwarding.
[13:05:51] <IchGuckLive> ah
[13:06:04] <Loetmichel> vnc is a bit slow ;-)
[13:06:06] <IchGuckLive> joe9: did it work
[13:06:34] <joe9> IchGuckLive: i am still trying to get heekscad to work.
[13:06:41] <ReadError_> why does linuxcncsrv listen on TCP 5005 ?
[13:06:42] <joe9> it needs opencascade.
[13:06:50] <IchGuckLive> where is the error opencamlib ?
[13:07:21] <IchGuckLive> joe9: dident you got a windows system 2
[13:07:38] <joe9> no.
[13:07:42] <IchGuckLive> or wouddt you stay with cruz for the mill at all
[13:10:43] <IchGuckLive> joe9: ?
[13:11:09] <joe9> i am installing opencascade now. I think it will work with crux. i was distracted by something else till now.
[13:11:18] <IchGuckLive> is the pc or notbook only for the milling or otherwise in use 2
[13:11:21] <joe9> IchGuckLive: opencascade install is going fen now.
[13:11:37] <joe9> IchGuckLive: only for milling. it is a pc
[13:11:37] <IchGuckLive> ok
[13:12:03] <IchGuckLive> so i dont understand why you not with us on the ubuntu 10.04
[13:12:34] <joe9> with ubuntu, I had latency issues.
[13:12:45] <joe9> cd, I meant.
[13:12:47] <IchGuckLive> SMI
[13:12:54] <joe9> maybe.
[13:13:15] <IchGuckLive> everything can be solved when you listen to us
[13:13:37] <IchGuckLive> ok then we will see after opencascade is installed
[13:13:42] <JT-Shop> just walk toward the light...
[13:13:58] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: its dark
[13:14:17] <IchGuckLive> pcw is not with us for days
[13:18:20] <ReadError_> any of yall use VisualMill?
[13:19:50] <IchGuckLive> the Freemill Visual Yes
[13:20:00] <IchGuckLive> its basicly the same
[13:21:22] <ReadError_> well
[13:21:28] <ReadError_> for some reason
[13:21:37] <ReadError_> its putting the entry point below the work surface
[13:21:45] <ReadError_> everything else is flawless though
[13:22:26] <andypugh> joe9: A spike every minute (especially evry 64 seconds) might well be SMI. There is a (non-zero risk) fix for that. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[13:23:02] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: http://mechmo.de/lothar/mount_m.png
[13:23:04] <joe9> andypugh: thanks. will check it out.
[13:24:08] <joe9> andypugh: that looks extremely similar to what i noticed. thanks.
[13:24:57] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: witch post did you use
[13:25:52] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: my 26 IBM A50 did manage to get below 10000 with that
[13:26:07] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: I found one for EMC2
[13:26:20] <IchGuckLive> use Fanuc F11
[13:26:39] <IchGuckLive> this will give you a very good resault
[13:27:13] <IchGuckLive> in freemill its the 11m
[13:27:34] <ReadError_> i cant see where in the gcode its going down below the work surface
[13:27:35] <ReadError_> very strange
[13:28:08] <ReadError_> hmm that does it correctly actually
[13:28:16] <IchGuckLive> did you set the zero to the negativ from the part block
[13:28:16] <ReadError_> but its missing my drill routine
[13:28:40] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: You would need a bigger mill.
[13:29:26] <IchGuckLive> the mill is actuly 5m in x 2m in y and 1,5m in z with a 0.3 acuracy
[13:29:51] <ReadError_> VisualMill is very nice otherwise..
[13:30:09] <IchGuckLive> foam negatices or positives with 200 stepwidth
[13:31:29] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: on that why arend you using heekscad for this it also gets here some good resaults
[13:32:04] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: i expect the part showing is the reaseon
[13:32:31] <IchGuckLive> joe9: hows it going on opencascade
[13:32:41] <andypugh> Yes, and Mt Rushmore is 18m in Z, 30m in x….
[13:33:05] <IchGuckLive> B) O.O
[13:33:24] <IchGuckLive> i think then i wil stay with grazy horse
[13:34:50] <A1Sheds> andypugh, whats the status on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SPI_Sub-Driver_For_Hostmot2
[13:34:53] <ktchk> Hi did anyone built heekscnc under ubuntu 12.04 lts?
[13:35:02] <IchGuckLive> mount Rushmore i think is in the standart of heekscad includet
[13:35:04] <A1Sheds> is thee a new framework?
[13:35:23] <A1Sheds> or should we stick with USB+arduino for now?
[13:35:24] <IchGuckLive> i made also more stl for US national points
[13:36:17] <andypugh> A1Sheds: That was an unworkable idea, when I tried to copy it, so I did it all a very different way.
[13:36:19] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: using that processor, its drilling my holes backwards
[13:36:34] <ReadError_> its going up instead of down lol
[13:36:44] <andypugh> Have a look at the 7i65 driver to see how to use the Hostmot2 Buffered SPI function.
[13:36:51] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: do you got a DXF for me
[13:37:05] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: OR A STL
[13:37:10] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: i been using a EPS i think
[13:37:23] <A1Sheds> andypugh, what do you suggest for hardware with 16 channels of A/D non realtime to simple ladder?
[13:37:24] <ReadError_> I have an STL though 1sec
[13:37:32] <ReadError_> err
[13:37:34] <ReadError_> IGS
[13:37:38] <ReadError_> is what i been using, my bad
[13:38:02] <andypugh> A/D?
[13:38:08] <andypugh> Not many choices.
[13:38:08] <IchGuckLive> sorry caplocked
[13:38:17] <A1Sheds> analog from thermocouples and pressure sensors
[13:38:30] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: can you provide it if the part is not secread
[13:38:49] <andypugh> I wonder if Phidgets work with hal_input?
[13:38:50] <JT-Shop> is there a .mov editor that is free?
[13:38:55] <ReadError_> yea, STL or EGS?
[13:39:00] <ReadError_> igs*
[13:39:07] <ReadError_> igs had all the right dimensions and such
[13:39:11] <IchGuckLive> your choce
[13:39:12] <andypugh> A1Sheds: It would be nice to make a COMEDI interface for HAL.
[13:39:14] <ReadError_> DXF was only 1D
[13:40:07] <A1Sheds> andypugh, using this to control a large extruder with a DC servo
[13:40:20] <ReadError_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/MountPlate2.IGS
[13:41:00] <A1Sheds> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/50519129/Clam_Shell_Barrel_Co_rotating_Twin_Screw.jpg something like this with several zones with analog heat or pressure
[13:41:36] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: got it
[13:41:40] <ReadError_> cool ;)
[13:41:54] <A1Sheds> andypugh, yeah, they support lots of boards
[13:43:32] <andypugh> A1Sheds: As you have probably noticed, the Mesa 7i65 has 8 analogue inputs, and it is supported by LinuxCNC
[13:43:36] <ReadError_> http://i.imgur.com/vFUi8.png
[13:43:38] <ReadError_> you can see
[13:43:41] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: just drill the littel holes
[13:43:45] <ReadError_> its trying to enter below the part
[13:44:37] <ReadError_> http://pastie.org/3896425
[13:44:40] <ReadError_> thats my gcode
[13:44:51] <andypugh> A1Sheds: I am surprised that there isn't a smart-serial analogue input card. Especially as at least some of them measure analog voltage and return a digital result.
[13:44:54] <ReadError_> but i cant really see WHY its trying to enter below the part as Z isnt being specified before
[13:45:12] <ReadError_> Line 48
[13:45:17] <ReadError_> is where that entry is
[13:45:46] <ReadError_> it has to be that 'G43 HZ'
[13:45:52] <ReadError_> it has to be that 'G43 H2' *
[13:46:10] <A1Sheds> andypugh, yeah, the 7i65 is a bit pricey for just 8 AD inputs
[13:46:34] <IchGuckLive> i see first why is the part offset not Zero in the middel of the big hole ?
[13:46:39] <andypugh> Ah, but the 7i66-8 has 16 channels of 8-bit Analogue...
[13:47:03] <ReadError_> ahhhhh
[13:47:07] <ReadError_> i removed that G43 H2
[13:47:11] <ReadError_> and that seemed to fix it
[13:47:13] <andypugh> A1Sheds: And is only $79
[13:47:33] <A1Sheds> better
[13:47:45] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: :D
[13:48:09] <ReadError_> now i need to figure out WHY that is being put in there
[13:48:11] <ReadError_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/images/fbfiles/files/EMC2_Inch.txt
[13:48:17] <ReadError_> thats the processor I used btw
[13:48:19] <A1Sheds> 9bit would be better
[13:48:49] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: Tol ofset in Z as in tooltable number 2
[13:53:44] <joe9> andypugh: that worked like a charm. thanks a lot. http://codepad.org/wTWJ9QES
[13:53:57] <joe9> andypugh: wow, what a difference.
[13:54:27] <andypugh> That looks very usable.
[13:54:45] <IchGuckLive> joe9: SMI ?
[13:55:19] <joe9> yes. IchGuckLive
[13:55:26] <IchGuckLive> AH
[13:55:41] <IchGuckLive> joe9: you will get a very nice moving mill
[13:56:29] <archivist> andypugh, look in the mail archive re COMEDI
[13:56:36] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: so would EMC be rending it that way due to the tool table?
[13:57:52] <IchGuckLive> yes
[13:58:07] <IchGuckLive> the Z offset is the H 2 is the linenumber
[13:58:16] <IchGuckLive> you can combinate that with all
[13:58:27] <archivist> andypugh, or possibly irc archive cant actually remember where it was discussed but someone did get something going
[13:58:29] <IchGuckLive> so no matter what tool is loadet
[13:58:30] <A1Sheds> http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/html/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/2012-01/msg00017.html
[13:59:00] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: the D is also that way
[13:59:12] <IchGuckLive> You can go with T1 D4 H6
[13:59:43] <IchGuckLive> or in the next G42/41 D1 for the finish
[14:00:18] <IchGuckLive> this gives you rouphinh and finishing with in 1 programm without changing the tool diameter
[14:00:50] <IchGuckLive> i need to make a video HOWto of this but then my 8000students wil now it befor to teatch
[14:01:52] <ReadError_> hmm so i need to change Z offset in tool
[14:02:51] <IchGuckLive> yes with this you can run your code with material alowence in Z
[14:02:58] <ReadError_> ahhh
[14:03:00] <ReadError_> that seems to work
[14:03:15] <IchGuckLive> or in normal its the ofset of the tool to a given calibration point
[14:05:09] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
[14:05:53] <IchGuckLive> B) have a nice day tomorow its open capus on the university so 20.000 people in the workplace to see the linuxcnc running
[14:13:16] <joe9> does anyone run the acpid process on their linuxcnc machine.
[14:13:50] <ktchk> yes
[14:13:58] <joe9> i like the ability to poweroff the machine from the command line and I think that needs acpid.
[14:14:09] <joe9> or, some sort of acpi functionality.
[14:14:17] <joe9> ktchk: ok, thanks.
[14:15:31] <ktchk> Joe9: my laptop fujisu under ubuntu 10.04 lts rtai emc2.5 driving router
[14:16:40] <joe9> ktchk: do you have this optionACPI_PROCESSOR enabled in the kernel?
[14:16:54] <joe9> ACPI_PROCESSOR
[14:17:14] <ktchk> joe9: the grub kernal command line added acpid
[14:17:17] <alex_joni> joe9: the 8.04 didn't have acpi stuff enabled
[14:17:26] <alex_joni> the linuxcnc 8.04 kernel*
[14:17:39] <alex_joni> and you had to keep the button pushed for a pc to shutdown
[14:17:47] <alex_joni> on 10.04 it's enabled, and should just work
[14:18:13] <joe9> alex_joni: thanks. i thought it was disabled at some point.
[14:18:25] <joe9> alex_joni, can you please check this option
[14:18:28] <joe9> ACPI_PROCESSOR
[14:18:34] <joe9> if you do not mind?
[14:18:42] <alex_joni> on which one?
[14:18:58] <joe9> the latest, 10.04
[14:19:16] <alex_joni> not right now, sorry
[14:19:22] <alex_joni> only 8.04 is in git http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=infrastructure.git;a=tree;f=livecd/kernels/hardy;h=630b19a6b1f3b7d43ba1dbc46fa988beadbca8d5;hb=HEAD
[14:19:33] <joe9> ktchk: it is a kernel configuration option.
[14:20:03] <ktchk> joe9: the grub kernal command duin boot
[14:20:38] <alex_joni> joe9: mozmck worked on the 10.04 kernel, he should know
[14:20:51] <alex_joni> alternatively you can download the kernel deb from linuxcnc.org and just check
[14:20:57] <joe9> ktchk: alex_joni: thanks. let me enable it and see what happens.
[14:57:28] <hmwhat> i'm trying to setup a custom kinematics machine using pncconf. Is there some documentation on that that I am missing?
[15:00:47] <skunkworks> hmwhat: this? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/motion/kinematics.html
[15:02:31] <hmwhat> skunkworks: I followed that example, but when I am running pncconf to setup my configuration, I am getting the "You forgot to designate a stepper/pwn for axis x,y,z"
[15:03:39] <skunkworks> I don't think you can use pncconf to setup non trival kins machine... (but this is above my pay grade)
[15:04:23] <jthornton> above my pay grade too but your better off starting with a sample config if one is close
[15:04:53] <hmwhat> thats what i was afraid of. I'll flip through those and the forums to see if I can find anything. thanks for the help
[15:06:38] <skunkworks> with all the fun gene had with his spindle.. I really should setup closed loop spindle control on the k&t
[15:07:10] <archivist> would one temporarily make the machine trivkins, set up the servos then use the custom kins
[15:07:17] <jthornton> I must have gotten lucky on the CHNC it was trivial to set up
[15:07:47] <jthornton> kind of marry the two important parts together...
[15:08:00] <skunkworks> jthornton: did you do pid?
[15:08:21] <skunkworks> I am running open loop - and for the most part - it is well within our tolerance.. ;)
[15:08:41] <jthornton> lol, I don't remember
[15:08:41] <skunkworks> it tracks pretty darn close (analog into the vfd)
[15:08:44] <jthornton> let me look
[15:10:46] <jthornton> mine uses pwmgen and encoder and scale
[15:11:31] <imbezol> emc redirects here?
[15:11:34] <jthornton> I like this line in my hal file "net trick-axis motion.spindle-reverse"
[15:11:51] <jthornton> yep
[15:12:17] <imbezol> what's emc in this context?
[15:12:23] <jthornton> Enhanced Machine Controller was the name before nasty people at EMC Corp forced a change
[15:12:51] <imbezol> do you play for the sharks?
[15:12:51] <jthornton> just so they get top billing during a google search lol
[15:13:01] <imbezol> the naming reality in this channel seems off :)
[15:13:28] <imbezol> http://sharks.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8466138
[15:15:40] <micges> jthornton: did you checked emc in 1milion search tool you found? there is plenty of emc there
[15:19:11] <JT-Shop> I wonder what we are talking about... well maybe not
[15:19:52] <frysteev> http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Price_Is_Right_show.aspx
[15:49:58] <ReadError_> hmmm
[15:50:10] <ReadError_> z-offset value for tools always negative correct?
[16:08:28] <alex4nder> hey
[16:15:46] <ReadError_> hello sir
[16:15:53] <alex4nder> sup ReadError_
[16:16:19] <ReadError_> tryin to get 'learned on this z-offset in tooltable
[16:18:06] <alex4nder> I see
[16:18:28] <alex4nder> you planning on switching tools a bunch?
[16:18:44] <ReadError_> nope, im using the same endmill for everything on this
[16:19:48] <alex4nder> what's the tool table for then?
[16:20:10] <ReadError_> well, the toolpath generation hard codes it in
[16:20:17] <ReadError_> G43 code
[16:21:04] <alex4nder> I see
[16:21:50] <alex4nder> ReadError_: have you milled any PCBs yet?
[16:24:56] <ReadError_> nah i got some i need to though
[16:25:19] <alex4nder> me too
[16:25:27] <alex4nder> I need to buy some engraving bits and make a vacuum table.
[16:25:32] <ReadError_> need to get some drill bits
[16:25:39] <alex4nder> have you done anything with the ones you bought?
[16:25:44] <ReadError_> nah not yet
[16:25:49] <ReadError_> i been messing with dremel bits so far
[16:25:55] <ReadError_> since they are cheap and easy to get
[16:37:09] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:37:15] <Jymmm> gn9
[16:42:41] <elmo40> http://grabcad.com/
[17:04:01] <ReadError_> *facepalm*
[17:04:15] <ReadError_> no wonder, solidworks had my part as 0.1
[17:04:22] <ReadError_> when i assumed i set it as 0.125
[17:35:59] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/380423408147?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[17:36:01] <r00t4rd3d> i bought one
[17:36:14] <r00t4rd3d> even though i dont really need it
[17:36:39] <r00t4rd3d> but all you guys say its good so...
[17:41:59] <alex4nder> ReadError_: I'm going to do some PCB milling this weekend, I think
[17:42:22] <Tom_itx> wear a mask
[17:42:24] <alex4nder> yup
[17:42:34] <alex4nder> and a wet-dry vac at the spindle
[17:42:42] <alex4nder> r00t4rd3d: how is the Linux video support on that board?
[17:42:49] <r00t4rd3d> no clue
[17:42:58] <r00t4rd3d> most likely okay though
[17:43:04] <andypugh> Good.
[17:43:09] <alex4nder> I need to post up my machine recipe
[17:43:37] <r00t4rd3d> i will probably put a video card in it
[17:44:44] <alex4nder> the n2800 gets nice low jitter numbers, but the video driver support is meh
[17:45:43] <alex4nder> andypugh: wait, which video driver do the 525 users use?
[17:46:04] <andypugh> No idea. It "Just Works"
[17:47:33] <r00t4rd3d> andypugh, you have a 525MW? Can you help me locate some memory for it on ebay?
[17:47:44] <r00t4rd3d> i got 15 bucks left to spend :)
[17:47:51] <andypugh> Well, actually I have a D510, the earlier one.
[17:48:14] <andypugh> Have you tried Crucial.com ?
[17:48:37] <r00t4rd3d> it says PC3-8500 but Crucial list the max memory at DDR3-10600
[17:49:08] <r00t4rd3d> pc3-8500 is more expensive :/
[17:49:10] <alex4nder> oh, the 525 is GMA 3150
[17:49:15] <andypugh> 8500 is less than 10600 in the maths I learned at school.
[17:49:46] <r00t4rd3d> 2gig of 10600 14.99 2g of 8500 , 19.99
[17:50:06] <andypugh> I only have 1 gig, that's plenty for LinuxCNC
[17:51:09] <r00t4rd3d> im buying 2 from crucial
[17:51:28] <alex4nder> r00t4rd3d: the tech specs say that board only ever runs the ram at 800 MHz
[17:52:07] <whattodo> r00t4rd3d: I am also using the 525MW
[17:52:17] <alex4nder> er 800 MT/s
[17:52:18] <andypugh> Has anyone seen PCW recently?
[17:52:23] <whattodo> I got 4GB from newegg for $23
[17:52:34] <Tom_itx> andypugh somebody said he was on vacation?
[17:52:48] <r00t4rd3d> i got 15.22 left on my paypal
[17:52:58] <r00t4rd3d> crucial tried to tax me
[17:52:58] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure
[17:53:10] <whattodo> ah. sorry
[17:53:10] <alex4nder> laf
[17:53:11] <andypugh> Ah. OK. I have a photo for him. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/W_eX4qsT_4YY76KI9_1kl9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink A young girl from the village brought her pet round to my parents' house last weekennd.
[17:53:57] <Tom_itx> omg
[17:54:12] <andypugh> Country folk, eh?
[17:54:41] <Tom_itx> i'd say
[17:54:52] <alex4nder> that's rad
[17:57:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2GB-PC3-10600-DDR3-1333MHz-SODIMM-Laptop-Memory-Ram-/160798917505?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item25705cc381
[17:57:19] <r00t4rd3d> that should work in the 525mw right?
[17:58:22] <alex4nder> it will work
[17:58:34] <alex4nder> but the specs say you only need PC3-6400
[17:58:58] <r00t4rd3d> thats low end
[17:59:15] <alex4nder> the specs say that's the maximum that board will ever use.
[17:59:28] <r00t4rd3d> specs say 8500
[17:59:47] <alex4nder> "Note: DDR 1066 MHz and DDR3 1333 MHz will run at 800 MHz'
[18:00:06] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAMAXEL-4GB-DDR3-2x2GB-PC3-10600S-1333MHz-Laptop-Memory-Mac-Thinkpad-HP-Dell-RAM-/360457553475?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item53ecf1c643
[18:00:13] <r00t4rd3d> oh i can swing that too
[18:00:29] <alex4nder> whatever you can get
[18:00:33] <alex4nder> the board isn't going to care.
[18:01:12] <r00t4rd3d> i know it will only run at the max mhz the board can handle
[18:02:12] <r00t4rd3d> the last link i posted, that will work right before i click buy it now
[18:03:09] <r00t4rd3d> whattodo, should that be okay?
[18:04:59] <r00t4rd3d> hope so i just bought it
[18:05:26] <r00t4rd3d> i wonder what the S means, PC3-10600S
[18:05:58] <Tom_itx> special applications only
[18:06:11] <r00t4rd3d> great
[18:07:17] <robin_sz> so
[18:07:25] <Tom_itx> jk, i don't have a clue
[18:07:26] <robin_sz> greetings
[18:07:43] <robin_sz> I trust you all are well and enjoying a fine evening
[18:08:16] <robin_sz> could I enquire what you fine gentlemen would suggest as a free PCB layout tool?
[18:08:27] <robin_sz> my board is too big for the free version of Eagle :(
[18:08:43] <Tom_itx> i'm partial to eagle but i'm beyond the free part
[18:08:48] <Tom_itx> geda maybe?
[18:08:52] <Tom_itx> i've never used it
[18:08:56] <r00t4rd3d> the pirate bay
[18:09:07] <robin_sz> err, not PB
[18:09:18] <djdelorie> geda/pcb is what I use
[18:09:25] <djdelorie> but I'm biased :-)
[18:09:32] <robin_sz> ive heard of one guy coming unstuck with a dodgy eagle license
[18:09:44] <robin_sz> the board house he sent the files to reported him
[18:09:44] <Tom_itx> i paid for one
[18:09:49] <r00t4rd3d> they dont have a listing anyways
[18:10:00] <robin_sz> geda
[18:10:09] <robin_sz> does it have schematic capture too?
[18:10:30] <djdelorie> yes
[18:10:36] <robin_sz> neato
[18:10:36] <djdelorie> www.geda-project.org
[18:10:58] <djdelorie> and simulation, and a verilog compiler, and verilog simulator, and photorelistic output, and... well, lots of things
[18:11:06] <Tom_itx> if you send the gerbers they have no way to know where they came from
[18:11:12] <alex4nder> yah
[18:11:19] <robin_sz> he sent an eagle project
[18:11:23] <djdelorie> most houses take eagle brd files as-is
[18:11:24] <Tom_itx> i'm not worried about it anyway
[18:11:36] <robin_sz> well, yeah. I prefer not to use dodgy licenses
[18:11:48] <robin_sz> buy one or use gpl, easy
[18:11:48] <Tom_itx> i don't send the board files anywhere
[18:11:51] <djdelorie> robin_sz: start here: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/gs/
[18:12:05] <Tom_itx> your board goes beyond the free license?
[18:12:14] <Tom_itx> you could get a student license
[18:12:16] <djdelorie> although there's a one-click import function in pcb now, instead of gsch2pcb
[18:12:20] <Tom_itx> or not for profit...
[18:12:36] <robin_sz> truesells
[18:12:41] <andypugh> djdelorie: Ah, that sounds good, and only 10 years after it became an obvious thing to do.
[18:12:46] <Tom_itx> since element 14 bought them i don't know their pricing structure anymore
[18:13:01] <robin_sz> let me go and look if geda sucks or is lovely
[18:13:08] <djdelorie> a lot of things are obvious after the fact ;-)
[18:13:19] <alex4nder> heh
[18:13:23] <alex4nder> yah, that's pretty innovative
[18:14:16] <andypugh> I am moving to gEDA on my Mac. I was happy enough with DesignSpark, but prefer to run native.
[18:14:47] <djdelorie> there's a #geda on OFTC that I hang out on, if anyone needs real-time help with it
[18:14:58] <roycroft> i'm starting to use geda
[18:15:01] <roycroft> it seems quite capable
[18:16:04] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, its 965 eur, too much for me
[18:16:25] <robin_sz> i need more than 100 x 160
[18:16:30] <roycroft> it's not very well-behaved on os x, though
[18:16:38] <r00t4rd3d> robin_sz, #arduino might be able to point you in the right direction also
[18:16:40] <Tom_itx> ok
[18:17:11] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, the hobbyist would be fine, apart from the 100 x 160 limit, which sucks ass
[18:17:21] <andypugh> Under Windows, DesignSpark is pretty good, and is free from RS. (as in, they have promised it will always be free). I think Farnell bought Eagle. (OK, Internet rumour, no checking)
[18:18:08] <Tom_itx> robin_sz, yeah i don't worry with that on mine
[18:18:38] <djdelorie> the first eagle component I used had the wrong pin spacing. It was a db25 connector too :-P
[18:19:07] <andypugh> I had hoped that DesignSpark would interface nicely with RS parts catalogues, but it really doesn't. Which seems like a missed opportunity. It would be immensely nice for the RS part number to bring up schematic and layout.
[18:19:25] <robin_sz> is designspark free?
[18:19:28] <Tom_itx> i started using eagle about ver 2.xx and just kept going
[18:19:34] <andypugh> You do at least know where you are with gEDA
[18:19:50] * robin_sz places a capacitor on the schematic
[18:20:00] <robin_sz> so far so good
[18:20:29] <Tom_itx> andypugh can you edit packages of symbols with it if you find out you have the wrong package?
[18:20:29] <robin_sz> I take it that geda back annotates between the pcb and the schematic?
[18:20:39] <Tom_itx> i would hope so
[18:20:43] <Tom_itx> that's basic
[18:20:47] <djdelorie> there's a netlister that extracts all the information from the schematics that the pcb layout tool needs
[18:20:53] <djdelorie> File->Import runs it :-)
[18:21:14] <andypugh> robin_sz: Yes, it's free. But not Free. Tom_itx Yes, you can. http://www.designspark.com/pcb
[18:21:17] <djdelorie> there's no *back* annotation yet, just *forward* annotation
[18:21:27] <robin_sz> but a netlist wont tell it what the package is will it?
[18:21:29] <andypugh> But please note that I am using gEDA now.
[18:21:43] <djdelorie> so all connectivity and attribute changes need to be done in the schematic tool, then imported.
[18:21:50] <robin_sz> ok
[18:22:07] <pfred1> I've thought about using gEDA
[18:22:12] <djdelorie> yes, the netlister includes the package. It's the footprint= attribute on the schematic symbol. Go read the tutorial I linked to ;-)
[18:22:21] <robin_sz> okies
[18:23:04] <Tom_itx> sounds like you have plenty of help here with it
[18:23:05] <andypugh> As far as I can see, with all of them, you need to create a schamatic and a layout for almost any compoment, as they never have the one you just bought in the library. And it is a complete pain in the neck with all of them.
[18:23:11] <djdelorie> the corresponding gschem tutorial is at http://wiki.geda-project.org/geda:gsch2pcb_tutorial but only read up to "Generate PCB files..."
[18:23:16] <robin_sz> i was just sort of surprised it let me pick a capacitor to put on the scmeatic without being offered a choice of footrpints
[18:23:32] <Tom_itx> andypugh yeah, i have a growing library
[18:23:32] <djdelorie> robin_sz: you get to choose the footprints later :-)
[18:23:35] <robin_sz> andypugh, eagle does at least have all the relevant SMD packagaes for most things
[18:23:44] <Tom_itx> although eagle is much better with it's libs lately
[18:23:49] <robin_sz> in only do smd
[18:24:01] <pfred1> I always end up having to make some part
[18:24:02] <djdelorie> andypugh: we've been building web-based package designers, like http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/tools/dilpad.html
[18:24:13] <robin_sz> neat
[18:24:27] <robin_sz> lets hope they have one for an ECC83 ;)
[18:24:30] <Tom_itx> robin_sz, eagle also added that refpackages.lbr with lots of layouts
[18:24:39] <robin_sz> yeay
[18:24:44] <andypugh> I found making new parts in Eagle really frustrating. DesignSpark is a bit better, but still not exactly smooth. gEDA os just, well, Linuxy. There are two ways to do it, and a battleground about which is best.
[18:25:00] <pfred1> andypugh you and me both I always sweat out making parts
[18:25:01] <djdelorie> the geda list has had quite a few philosophical discussions on how to "best" manage libraries
[18:25:03] <robin_sz> and I use the designspark eagle library a lot :)
[18:25:04] <Tom_itx> i don't think any are seamless
[18:25:16] <djdelorie> andypugh: way more than just two :-)
[18:25:16] <robin_sz> oh did I mean sparkfun library
[18:25:35] <pfred1> djdelorie a photo import function :)
[18:25:40] <djdelorie> got it
[18:25:53] <Tom_itx> there is also kicad
[18:25:58] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/bg-image.html
[18:25:59] <Tom_itx> but i know little about it
[18:26:11] <robin_sz> I tried kicad
[18:26:15] <robin_sz> that really sucked
[18:26:18] <pfred1> I tried all the FOSS circuit design stuff like 2 years ago
[18:26:21] <Tom_itx> ok
[18:26:32] <robin_sz> protel is nice
[18:26:36] <robin_sz> but $$$
[18:26:38] <pfred1> robin_sz that was about where i was at 2 years ago when I tried everything
[18:26:40] <Tom_itx> well of course
[18:26:57] <djdelorie> I did a lab on using 100% FOSS for electronics design two years ago, and the text terminal was NEVER used.
[18:27:08] <Tom_itx> altium is probably one of the best
[18:27:26] <pfred1> djdelorie my stuff was crashing when I tried to work through some tutorials so I packed it in and went back to Eagle
[18:27:50] <djdelorie> pfred1: this time around, let me know about the crashes first ;-)
[18:28:15] <pfred1> djdelorie the packages in Debian are so ancient I usually DL the source and build it locally
[18:28:32] <djdelorie> me too :-)
[18:28:45] <pfred1> Debian doesn't declare anything stable until it is obsolete
[18:31:13] <pfred1> I installed Blender with apt-get then tried working through some tutorials and I was like I don't have that tool box on the side of the window
[18:32:42] <pfred1> I couldn't build Blender with ffmpeg support though it is very particular about which version you have the one Debian came with was too old and my CVS was too new
[18:34:18] <pfred1> Debian was 0.7 and CVS was 0.10 and it was looking for > .8
[18:35:12] <skorket> does anyone have any experience with grbl?
[18:35:49] * pfred1 ain't touching that topic!
[18:36:16] <skorket> Is it inappropriate to ask in this forum?
[18:36:53] <andypugh> I don't even know what grbl is, so can't have an opinion on propriety.
[18:37:46] <Tom_itx> Grbl is a free, open source embedded CNC controller for the AVR series of microcontrollers.
[18:37:52] <Tom_itx> or so it says
[18:37:56] <pfred1> neat
[18:38:04] <Tom_itx> http://grbl.tumblr.com/
[18:38:12] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[18:38:23] <Tom_itx> you might ask in reprap
[18:38:39] <pfred1> I just found out reprap is Java
[18:38:45] <andypugh> We are not commercial, so aren't in competition. But at the same time, I doubt many folk here use it.
[18:38:47] <Tom_itx> oh
[18:39:35] <pfred1> I think the whole reprap project is the poster child for why academics shouldn't get involved in engineering
[18:39:42] <skorket> Yeah, just got a test working! Looks like my understanding of gcode is near minimal
[18:39:52] <skorket> ha...but they raised the bar at least
[18:40:05] <skorket> they were first out the gate. Makerbot came soon after
[18:40:23] <pfred1> 3D printing has been around since the 70s
[18:40:33] <robin_sz> djdelorie, will geda import an eagle netlist?
[18:40:51] <djdelorie> there are no tools to do that, but the pcb imports are plain ascii
[18:40:57] <andypugh> Reprap was based around the idea of machines to make machines. That was the fun part.
[18:41:08] <djdelorie> proprietary companies don't like sharing their file format information
[18:41:24] <djdelorie> but if you can get the information out, you can likely figure out how to import it
[18:41:32] <pfred1> andypugh trying to solve the age old question of which came first, the chicken, or the egg?
[18:41:40] <djdelorie> the egg
[18:42:29] <pfred1> djdelorie space aliens might have just tossed some chickens off their ship
[18:43:00] <pfred1> that is how most chickens around the world got to where they are now humans tossed chickens off their ships
[18:43:54] <Tom_itx> there are chickens running wild on Gran Caymen now after the hurricane went thru there. they can't catch them all
[18:44:07] <djdelorie> the logic is: an egg and the adult it grows into have the same DNA, therefor must be the same species. However, an adult and the egg it lays need not be, so the change from "not a chicken" to "chicken" must have happened when the egg was made
[18:44:13] <pfred1> that is about the only way you can get a chicken to migrate
[18:46:07] <pfred1> I was reading an interesting article about cosmic radiation a while back
[18:51:28] <andypugh> djdelorie: You sound like one of then there evolutionists! Is that allowed in the US?
[18:54:06] <pfred1> andypugh it varies by state
[18:54:47] <andypugh> This is good, and is best at about 4:30 http://youtu.be/O1nSuWztIrY
[18:54:53] <pfred1> I think DJ lives in Vermont which is home of a lot of godless hippies
[18:55:13] <djdelorie> nope
[18:55:34] <pfred1> New Hampshire?
[18:55:51] <pfred1> I always get those two confused
[18:55:58] <djdelorie> yep. The "Live Free or Die" state
[18:57:05] <pfred1> blindfold me and drop me off in VT or NH and i couldn't tell them apart
[18:57:44] <roycroft> um, teh godless hippies live here in oregon
[18:58:16] <roycroft> washington is the least church-going state in the union, followed closely by oregon
[19:01:15] <pfred1> what does it say on the vermont license plate?
[19:01:21] <djdelorie> "Moo" ?
[19:01:41] <pfred1> where I'm at now DE they don't put anything
[19:01:58] <pfred1> they're funny about license plates here
[19:02:06] <djdelorie> http://www.plateshack.com/y2k/Vermont/vty2k.html
[19:02:27] <pfred1> ah it is the green mountain state
[19:02:52] <pfred1> like ther eare no green mountains in Maine
[19:03:05] <djdelorie> vs http://www.plateshack.com/y2k/New_Hampshire/nhy2k.html
[19:03:19] <roycroft> folks from main don't like to brag
[19:03:23] <pfred1> I got a kick out of Maine's plates when I went on vacation there
[19:04:01] <pfred1> maniacs are some strange people
[19:04:04] <djdelorie> based on the Maine page there, the state motto is "we can't decide what to put on our plates"
[19:04:13] <pfred1> it used to be vacationland
[19:04:24] <djdelorie> "Lobster" is also popular
[19:04:32] <pfred1> tourism is their #1 industry
[19:04:45] <djdelorie> with "trailer" a close third...
[19:06:20] <pfred1> maine is really building up anymore
[19:06:42] <pfred1> last time I went there I couldn't believe it they got FM radio and everything
[19:07:09] <pfred1> the first time I went there they really didn't
[19:07:50] <djdelorie> Maine is so far behind the times, even GPS doesn't work there.
[19:07:58] <pfred1> heh
[19:08:14] <pfred1> north of freeport is really god's country
[19:08:29] <pfred1> you and god and not a whole lot of other folks around
[19:10:04] <pfred1> if your town has a population of 6 they'll put you on the map just so it isn't one big green blob
[19:11:30] <pfred1> I went through a town that was on the map and you could have tied all the shacks together in it and they would have been smaller than my house but it was on the map!
[19:12:11] <skorket> hmm, my stepper motor seems to very minutely 'jitter' every 5 seconds. I'm using an a4988 allegro stepper driver. I looked at the driving signal (arduino+grbl) and I can't see it sending any pulses. Any suggestions on what's going on or how to debug?
[19:12:23] <djdelorie> maybe it's bored?
[19:12:43] <pfred1> skorket you're using microstepping?
[19:13:08] <skorket> pfred1, yes
[19:13:28] <pfred1> yeah allegro's implementation of microstepping leaves some to be desired
[19:13:55] <skorket> that sucks...
[19:14:06] <pfred1> that is how a lot of folks feel about it
[19:14:08] <skorket> so, it's probably normal and I'm just going to have to live with it?
[19:14:17] * Jymmm is bored and sets djdelorie's CNC boards on fire and grabs the marshmellows!
[19:14:25] <pfred1> their steps are off by 40% in microstepping
[19:14:35] <skorket> any suggestions on what stepper motor driver I should be using
[19:14:37] <djdelorie> wouldn't be the first smoke off those boards. Or the second.
[19:14:41] <skorket> christ
[19:14:41] <pfred1> so that play could be the cause of your jitter
[19:14:58] <pfred1> well it isn't cumulative error
[19:15:22] <pfred1> one revolution is still one rev but in that rev things tend to go here and there
[19:15:40] <skorket> it makes a difference for things, though, right? I mean, if you're rounding corners or whatever else
[19:15:52] <pfred1> ah
[19:16:04] <pfred1> would depend on your lead screw I guess
[19:16:04] <Jymmm> Heh, allegro's are VERY heat sensative - need LOTS of cooling!
[19:16:24] <skorket> Jymmm, do you think the jitter is caused by overheating?
[19:16:32] <pfred1> I love how allegro deals with current limiting
[19:16:40] <Jymmm> skorket: do you have a fan and heatsinks?
[19:16:43] <skorket> no
[19:16:50] <Jymmm> skorket: fan?
[19:16:54] <skorket> nope
[19:16:54] <Jymmm> skorket: heatsink?
[19:16:57] <skorket> nothing
[19:17:11] <Jymmm> I'd be surprised that you haven't fried it yet
[19:17:13] <skorket> I mean, I could scrounge something up, but nothing attached to the allegro
[19:17:15] <pfred1> how big a motor are you using? like how much current?
[19:17:28] <skorket> 1.7 A
[19:17:33] <pfred1> my allegro ICs run cool to me
[19:17:48] <pfred1> I put very small heatsinks on them
[19:18:27] <pfred1> skorket 1.7 A is no small potatoes for that driver IC how did you setup your current limiting?
[19:18:38] <skorket> ok, well this suggests two tests that I could do: 1) cool it down to see if that helps and 2) turn off microstepping and see if the jitter goes away
[19:18:40] <Jymmm> skorket: what voltage?
[19:18:43] <skorket> 24V
[19:18:56] <skorket> pfred1, no current limiting?
[19:18:59] <pfred1> forget the volts if you were over on that you'd know it
[19:19:19] <Jymmm> pfred1: Well,there's BEMF too
[19:19:27] <djdelorie> over volts = FZZT, over current = MELT
[19:19:30] <Jymmm> max iirc is 30V including bemf
[19:19:35] <pfred1> you'd still know it because the magical smoke would have come out
[19:20:04] <pfred1> yeah i think the a4s are like 36V max?
[19:20:04] <Jymmm> pfred1: Mine didn't, just stopped, replaced under warranrty
[19:20:07] <andypugh> 24V stopped motor would have let out the magic smoke without current limiting.
[19:20:33] <pfred1> andypugh I think they might just be getting lucky
[19:20:37] <djdelorie> even my 160V motors need current limiting at as little as 24V
[19:20:48] <Jymmm> skorket: any caps?
[19:20:51] <robin_sz> djdelorie, do you have 5 minutes?
[19:21:06] <djdelorie> I even have a new 5 minutes every 5 minutes... ;-)
[19:21:10] <skorket> I'm getting confused, you're saying that having my motor sitting idle connected directly to the a4988 at 24v will cause it to ruin the allegro?
[19:21:11] <pfred1> there has to be some kind of current limiting on the driver
[19:21:22] <pfred1> I am not sure if it'd run at all without it
[19:21:35] <djdelorie> skorket: the driver should do current limiting, I haven't seen one that doesn't
[19:21:42] <pfred1> skorket stepper motors draw the most current holding
[19:21:45] <skorket> Jymmm, no caps. I am using a carrier board (I bought it from pololu: http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1182)
[19:21:53] <robin_sz> djdelorie, im probably missing something, but lets take a basic concept ... a TL072 opamp, smd, reflow pads
[19:21:54] <andypugh> I am fairly sure that current limiting is one fundamental job of any stepper driver.
[19:22:34] <pfred1> zllegros use a pot to set your current limit it is pretty nice
[19:22:37] <Jymmm> skorket: In general unless you have set it otherwise, steppers at idle can still draw 100% current as "holding torque" to prevent the motor from turning. Many let you reduce "idle current" to something like 50%, 25%, etc.
[19:22:49] <pfred1> I think it is like a voltage divider
[19:22:55] <robin_sz> djdelorie, iv placed a dual opamp on my schematic, now ... where do I tell the layout thing is a texas TL072, smd for relfow?
[19:23:03] <djdelorie> robin_sz: either PM me or go to #geda on oftc.net, to be nice to the regulars here :-)
[19:23:19] <skorket> ok
[19:23:26] <robin_sz> ok, I'll PM you
[19:23:38] <pfred1> electronics is related to CNC
[19:23:39] <andypugh> djdelorie: Well, actually, I was reading with interest,
[19:23:54] <djdelorie> well, if you all insist, impromptu geda tutorial session! :-)
[19:24:03] <skorket> at any rate, do you guys have any suggestions on a stepper motor driver for a beginner like me that will power my 1.7A steppers?
[19:24:12] <skorket> is the a4988 good enough?
[19:24:20] <andypugh> Probbaly
[19:24:20] <robin_sz> skorket, gecko ;)
[19:24:26] <pfred1> skorket I like the chinese TB6560 boards today if you just treat them right
[19:24:37] <djdelorie> in gschem, select the part and "ee" to edit it. Add a footprint= attribute that indicates the correct footprint (TSSOP8, SO8, etc, depending on the chip)
[19:24:38] <Jymmm> skorket: As general knowledge, this is a great read (2 or 3 times to get what he's saying helps) http://www.geckodrive.com/media/wysiwyg/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf
[19:24:38] <andypugh> It can't be more fragile than a TB650
[19:25:11] <pfred1> andypugh Toshiba started it with their max volts claim and the chinese perpetuate the myth
[19:25:17] <Jymmm> skorket: There is a LOT of information in there, it's easy to miss a lot of it.
[19:25:21] <djdelorie> the tools don't care where you got the chip, just the mapping from symbol pin numbers to footprint pin numbers
[19:25:34] <pfred1> andypugh as long as you don't over volt them they're OK
[19:25:43] <djdelorie> Warning: the "transistor problem" may require you to make a custom symbol if your part's pin numbering doesn't match the common numbering
[19:26:12] <djdelorie> you may add *additional* attributes for your own benefit, or for the BOM tools to use, but pcb doesn't care about those.
[19:26:19] <robin_sz> djdelorie, OK, but I care, because I dont want to have to go through every datasheet, manually changing pins, I sort of expect my design tool to know about common chips and pinouts
[19:26:26] <skorket> thanks all. The gecko systems seem a little pricey
[19:26:33] <pfred1> skorket this is my TB6560 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[19:26:49] <Tom_itx> skorket they're nice
[19:27:05] <djdelorie> geda doesn't have that kind of a library. We refer to that as a "heavy symbol" library, where you have one symbol per part number, with all the info filled in.
[19:27:12] <robin_sz> yes
[19:27:16] <djdelorie> The alternative is a "light symbol" library where you fill in all the data each time.
[19:27:18] <robin_sz> it doesnt have that?
[19:27:21] <robin_sz> right
[19:27:28] <andypugh> skorket: 3x the price, 50% better. To make up arbitrary numbers. But how much is that 50% worth to you?
[19:27:36] <djdelorie> Common is a hybrid library, where you take light symbols, annotate them, and store them by part number
[19:27:42] <robin_sz> its ok you can stop there
[19:27:48] <robin_sz> you told me all I need to know
[19:28:14] <robin_sz> thanks :)
[19:28:20] <djdelorie> for LSI parts, something like djboxsym or tragesym lets you make a box-style symbol very quickly
[19:28:27] <skorket> yeah, that's always the equation. I bought 3 a4988's from pololu and in my ignorance I think I already fried 2. Would it have been better to just buy an expensive driver that I couldn't screw up to begin with? Now? It's always a gamble and trade off
[19:28:32] <robin_sz> its ok, i removed it, its not for me
[19:28:34] <djdelorie> most of those map to standard footprints anyway, so minimal effort
[19:28:47] <pfred1> skorket you can screw up any stepper driver
[19:28:54] <skorket> pfred1, is that 3.5A per axis? or total?
[19:29:06] <pfred1> skorket each motor driver
[19:29:28] <pfred1> skorket but who said i was just going to use one an axis?
[19:29:39] <andypugh> As far as I know, no stepper driver can handle the motor being disconnected while it is live.
[19:29:55] <pfred1> andypugh maybe something out there can but I never heard about it
[19:29:59] <robin_sz> im definitely a "heavy library" sort of guy
[19:30:33] <pfred1> skorket yeah never ever disconnect a motor wire from your driver while your driver has power going to ie
[19:30:42] <robin_sz> andypugh, mariss claimed his new drive was up to that
[19:30:56] <skorket> pfred1, thanks. Maybe that's how I fried the other two, I just don't know what I did
[19:31:01] <Tom_itx> that's what i read but i'm not gonna try it
[19:31:04] <robin_sz> andypugh, fully protected agaisnt all sorts of lunacy
[19:31:08] <pfred1> robin_sz it would pay mariss to develop something like that because most of his customer base are idiots
[19:31:09] <andypugh> robin_sz: I amagine you could make your own library. As I said earlier, even the packages with enormous libraries seem to have none of the parts I ever use.
[19:31:10] <djdelorie> the problem is, there aren't enough engineers in the world to maintain a "heavy" library that covers everything. The TL072, even just the TI versions, come in 14 different variants at Digikey alone.
[19:32:12] <robin_sz> andypugh, I could, but eagle for exmaple has a comprehensive library that 90% of the time has something I can use, having to basically look every part up on a datasheet and make it yourself .. I might as well get out the letraset and a dlao pen
[19:32:21] <djdelorie> and a third package that digikey doesn't stock...
[19:32:38] <djdelorie> and a ten-pin "U" package.
[19:32:42] <andypugh> I found eagle equally useless. YMMV.
[19:32:44] <Tom_itx> switch distributors
[19:32:58] <pfred1> skorket the coils in stepper motors store current so kind of like a car's ignition coil they can send a pulse when you break the circuit
[19:33:39] <robin_sz> im sure it works for some people, but not for me, I dont mind making up the odd missing package, or cloning an package to tweak it, but strating effectively with no packages is weird, and its significantly diffeerent from most other pCB tools ive used to make it too much of a learning effort
[19:33:41] <skorket> pfred1, but wouldn't that be the motor's problem and not the driver board?
[19:33:52] <djdelorie> the TL072 is a standard dual op-amp, though. Use the standard symbol, att SO8 or DIP8 as the footprint, done.
[19:33:57] <pfred1> what i hate is making a library element then later finding it in the library
[19:34:04] <Tom_itx> hah
[19:34:07] <jdhNC> andypugh: I got that Rittal enclosure you found on eBay for $75 shipped.
[19:34:11] <robin_sz> djdelorie, and dip8 is a smd reflow footprint?
[19:34:12] <pfred1> skorket not at all the pulse goes into the driver
[19:34:16] <jdhNC> pfred1: I have made one footprint. then found it.
[19:34:21] <Tom_itx> jdhNC cool
[19:34:39] <djdelorie> Another alternative is to download one of the alternate libraries which is designed for newbies, see http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/essential/essential.html
[19:34:39] <Tom_itx> i'll give you 60 for it
[19:34:41] <pfred1> yeah I've looked and looked for some stuff in Eagle only to have it turn up later
[19:34:46] <djdelorie> DIP8 is an 8-pin DIP
[19:34:54] <djdelorie> SO8 is an 8-pin SO
[19:34:59] <djdelorie> TSSOP8 is an 8-pin TSSOP etc
[19:35:08] <gene__> What is the full debug = set to?
[19:35:27] <robin_sz> where can you see the package?
[19:35:39] <jdhNC> Tom_itx: power disconnect, Estop, Start button, DIN rail, panduit.
[19:35:45] <jdhNC> Tom_itx: they have another one just like it.
[19:35:54] <pfred1> skorket with the motor drivers you have now you have to set the current limit on them
[19:36:44] <djdelorie> run pcb, Window->Library, the string in [brackets] is the footprint for gschem
[19:36:52] <gene__> Is the 7 & 5 F's or 7F's?
[19:36:54] <skorket> pfred1, so if I wanted to control the tb6560 from an arduino, I would have to do something like step up the signal from the arduino and connect it to one of the 'manual' control pins to drive it?
[19:37:03] <andypugh> gene__: it;s in the docs somewhere. But only goes so far.
[19:37:30] <djdelorie> robin_sz: what you *really* want is for us to implement http://www.delorie.com/pcb/component-dbs.html
[19:37:38] <gene__> I'm look at them, and it says to see a file in the srcs. Not much help IOW
[19:37:44] <andypugh> You can get _really_ detailed stuff be echoing 5 to proc/rtai/debug
[19:38:01] <gene__> As root>
[19:38:20] <robin_sz> djdelorie, yes, as far as I know, thats exactly how every other pcb package I have ever used works
[19:38:23] <robin_sz> orcad
[19:38:26] <robin_sz> eedesigner
[19:38:28] <robin_sz> protel
[19:38:33] <djdelorie> I tyically will place a package in the window and check the measurements, I've been screwed before
[19:38:33] <robin_sz> proteous
[19:38:48] <djdelorie> it's a manpower issue, not a "we don't want to" issue
[19:38:58] <robin_sz> are there other packages using a "light" library?
[19:38:59] <andypugh> gene__: The source is out there. git.linuxcnc.org, click "tree"
[19:39:29] <pfred1> skorket I think an AVR could send out a digital signal that a TB6560 could use they are 5 volts aren't they?
[19:39:39] <skorket> yep
[19:39:51] <djdelorie> robin_sz: I don't know. We have some users that swear by their light libraries, using a separate corporate database of "approved" parts to merge light schematics with project rules and corporate parts to make a layout
[19:40:17] <pfred1> skorket another thing about PWM steppers is they can be incredibly noisy electrically
[19:40:22] <robin_sz> how do they do that?
[19:40:25] <djdelorie> the *output* of the process is a schematic with heavy symbols, but the *input* is a light schematic, often reused from a library
[19:40:31] <djdelorie> perl scripts, mostly :-)
[19:40:50] <djdelorie> all the geda file formats are plain ASCII and easily parsable
[19:40:56] <pfred1> skorket I could never get them to work right without some kind of optical isolation to block the motor driver noise
[19:41:49] <djdelorie> the other trick is to use "symbolic heavy symbols" - symbols with "purpose" names but filled in with project-specific details. So, "bypass-cap-1.sym" is what all the bypass caps are, regardless of what the project uses for bypass caps.
[19:42:19] <gene__> As root, proc/rtai/debug doesn't exists and root can't touch it
[19:42:23] <robin_sz> its just so different to how everyting else works ...
[19:42:30] <djdelorie> yup
[19:43:09] <djdelorie> The biggest geda projects don't do things the "everything else" way anyway, they *need* this kind of setup to manage them
[19:43:27] <djdelorie> but we admit to a big learning curve
[19:43:40] <robin_sz> yeah, i dont think its going to fly for me
[19:43:42] <gene__> Correction, as root, /proc/rtai/debug doesn't exist and root can't touch it to make the empty file
[19:43:48] <pfred1> djdelorie the text is it XML?
[19:43:57] <andypugh> gene__: It's not there until realtime starts
[19:44:12] <djdelorie> mostly it's a one-line-at-a-time format
[19:44:23] <robin_sz> what about component placement output for pick and place machines?
[19:45:01] <robin_sz> normally just component, x, y rotation
[19:45:14] <djdelorie> pcb has an exporter for that
[19:45:34] <gene__> linuxcnc was running
[19:45:49] <djdelorie> pfred1: see http://www.delorie.com/electronics/rulz/rulz-r8c33.sch and http://www.delorie.com/electronics/rulz/rulz-r8c33.pcb for examples
[19:46:07] <gene__> I just type "vim my-lathe.ini" and the whole thing crashed
[19:46:45] <ReadError_> 1st part = cut awesome :)
[19:46:47] <pfred1> djdelorie oh that doesn't look so bad
[19:46:52] <robin_sz> ok, let me giv it another shot
[19:47:11] <djdelorie> I have a lot of perl scripts that work on sch and pcb files
[19:47:37] <andypugh> gene__: cat /proc/rtai/debug ought to work.
[19:48:08] <andypugh> Well, assuming I have remembered all 4 words correctly, which is far from guaranteed.
[19:48:25] <robin_sz> place capacitor, select attributes, select "footprint"
[19:48:58] <djdelorie> I usually export the schematic to openoffice spreadsheet, and fill in all the extra data there.
[19:49:08] <robin_sz> what?
[19:49:18] <Tom_itx> what a kludge
[19:49:18] <djdelorie> I also tend to cut-n-paste parts from working projects, so the info is already filled in
[19:49:30] <djdelorie> there's a gattrib for doing it, but oocalc is much more usable
[19:50:00] <djdelorie> doing it in the GUI one at a time is, well, laborious.
[19:50:25] <robin_sz> look, if im placing a cap on the schematic and I KNOW its a 400v film cap, I want to enter that info now, to make sure when I get to drag it around on the PCB, its a nice big leaded film cap, not a 0204 chip
[19:50:43] <djdelorie> http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/dj_delorie/ - see sch2csv and csv2sch
[19:50:49] <andypugh> Doesn't that rather assume that you know off by heart all the tags?
[19:50:50] <gene__> An ls -l shows several files, but debug isn't among them, fifo, names, hal & scheduler is all
[19:50:56] <djdelorie> Right, for special parts, you fill in all the data right then in the GUI so you know it's that one.
[19:51:15] <djdelorie> andy: the standard tags are available in the gui, and the spreadsheet has the column headings for you
[19:51:35] <djdelorie> as long as you have *one* component done through the GUI, all the right tags are there
[19:51:53] <robin_sz> so, how do I set footprint on this cap to be say, a leaded cap, 15mm pad spacing? from the gui?
[19:51:58] <pfred1> I thought the new thing today was libre office?
[19:52:08] <djdelorie> robin_sz: but when you have dozens of bypass caps, it's easier to fill in one by hand (or copy from another project), and copy/paste that row to all the other caps in OOcalc
[19:52:25] <djdelorie> robin_sz: depends on *which* leaded cap, 15mm spacing, it is.
[19:52:51] <djdelorie> I have a whole directory full of various leaded caps, and a perl script to make more, because there are no standard for those. Resistors, sure, and SMT caps, but not leaded.
[19:52:52] <gene__> And this time before I ran in I set "debug = 7FFFFF" in the ini file, no effect
[19:53:32] <robin_sz> ok, 2w leaded resistor?
[19:53:33] <andypugh> gene__: What are you trying to do right now?
[19:54:22] <djdelorie> ACY<pitch>
[19:54:25] <gene__> Its sitting there, supposedly with debug = 7FFFFF in effect, turning the spindle ab1 rps
[19:54:29] <ReadError_> http://p.twimg.com/Asp82RnCMAIVEAe.jpg:large ;o
[19:54:29] <djdelorie> ACY600 for 0.6" pitch, etc.
[19:54:30] <ReadError_> ;))))
[19:54:38] <gene__> Its sitting there, supposedly with debug = 7FFFFF in effect, turning the spindle about 1 rps
[19:54:43] <alex4nder> ReadError_: congrats
[19:54:48] <djdelorie> ReadError_: Cool! :-)
[19:54:50] <ReadError_> ty sir
[19:54:57] <ReadError_> fits PERFECT too
[19:55:02] <ReadError_> which is always nice :)
[19:55:22] <alex4nder> how many lines of g-code?
[19:56:08] <robin_sz> djdelorie, so I placed a resistor, I have gshem with a window showing the attribute, I slelected "footprint" in the add Attribute window ...
[19:56:34] <robin_sz> djdelorie, so how do I set it to be say an 0206 smd reflow footprint?
[19:56:34] <djdelorie> enter ACY600 in the value window and click "add"
[19:56:39] <robin_sz> wait
[19:56:46] <andypugh> Is "ACY600" obvious in some way I am not seeing?
[19:56:46] <djdelorie> 0206? 1206?
[19:56:50] <gene__> The last 3 times I tried to do a "Touch Off" on x, linuxcnc quit, no trace in the two .txt files, and nothing in dmesg, it just as if I clicked quit.
[19:56:56] <djdelorie> Axial Component Y 0.400 inch
[19:57:02] <pfred1> andypugh heh
[19:57:13] <robin_sz> where did you get that from?
[19:57:28] <ReadError_> alex4nder: 235
[19:57:33] <djdelorie> I don't know what the Y is for, that's one of them "industry standard" names
[19:57:39] <djdelorie> like CAPC1608L
[19:57:51] <robin_sz> so, is this in a dropdown?
[19:57:57] <andypugh> gene__: Did you start Linuxcnc from the gui or the command line?
[19:58:07] <djdelorie> which is a 0603 capacitor for automated placement and reflow
[19:58:16] <gene__> cli
[19:58:28] <robin_sz> djdelorie, do you just have to "know" these?
[19:58:33] <andypugh> Anything there? anything in dmesg?
[19:58:39] <djdelorie> the tools aren't that integrated. Run pcb to get the library window, type the values in the schematic editor window
[19:59:07] <pfred1> this isn't going to fit perfectly I am going to have to file it: http://i.imgur.com/5kZdb.jpg
[19:59:09] <djdelorie> robin_sz: use pcb's library window to "learn" the footprint names. We didn't make them all up, there are standards for many of them, but PCB knows how to show you the footprint as a preview
[19:59:16] <pfred1> but it looks close to me
[19:59:17] <djdelorie> and you can double check the measurements right in pcb with the mark
[19:59:40] <gene__> total zip over and above the usual 200 bytes for the debug.txt, and about 800 for the print.txt, no new content IOW
[20:00:32] <robin_sz> djdelorie, but then after looking it up in pcb I have to add it in schem and then export the netlist back into pcb so it can place it?
[20:00:55] <djdelorie> yup
[20:01:10] <pfred1> gEDA isn't very integrated is it?
[20:01:43] <gene__> In the .ini file, the debug value I've seen is a hex value, does it need a $ sign in front, or an )x maybe
[20:01:46] <djdelorie> it's not, but there are many use cases where that's a good thing. gschem, for example, can drive the Altium layout tool, or simulation, or in one case plumbing...
[20:01:59] <gene__> In the .ini file, the debug value I've seen is a hex value, does it need a $ sign in front, or an 0x maybe?
[20:02:17] <djdelorie> we have many improvements we'd *like* to make but we lack the people to do it
[20:02:30] <andypugh> I think gschem has been used to diagram HAL wiring in LinuxCNC.
[20:02:43] <andypugh> But that could be a false memory
[20:02:50] <skunkKandT> gene__: look at the pid component for pid.N.saturated and related pins...
[20:02:54] <djdelorie> and there are a few extremely vocal people in the geda community who oppose any attempts at further integration
[20:02:58] <skunkKandT> (list email)
[20:03:01] <pfred1> the first time I tried out gEDA was a long time ago I'm going to say 10 years?
[20:03:22] <robin_sz> its just so different ...
[20:03:40] <robin_sz> most commercial packages let you really explore the avaialabel components
[20:03:51] <pfred1> djdelorie would they be adverse to say a front end?
[20:04:08] <djdelorie> re-read that component-db paper I wrote; it does what you want, we just need resources to implement it.
[20:04:15] <pfred1> like keep all the parts separate but have one IDE sort of a thing?
[20:04:34] <djdelorie> pfred1: there's a front-end, most people don't use it, it doesn't have the component thing anyway.
[20:05:18] <djdelorie> managing components is actually a third equal part of the process (schematics, components, layout)
[20:05:27] <gene__> All 3 of the saturated pins are either false or 0
[20:06:11] <andypugh> gene__: What changed between the last time LinusCNC worked, and the first time it didn't?
[20:06:37] <pfred1> andypugh that kind of debugging often fails
[20:06:37] <djdelorie> the root of the problem is that "comonent" isn't a concept in geda/pcb. You have symbols and footprints, neither tool knows about the other tool's file format, and our "database" is just a mess of files on disk.
[20:06:42] <andypugh> I know that is a silly question, but what have you been doing>
[20:07:43] <ReadError_> http://p.twimg.com/Asp_uB2CIAIolD2.jpg:large
[20:07:57] <ReadError_> mission == accomplished!
[20:08:01] <ReadError_> now i need to finish the rest ;)
[20:08:15] <ReadError_> i think it will go smoother now that i have a better idea how to do it
[20:08:19] <Jymmm> what mission?
[20:08:38] <pfred1> I want a brass hammer that is my mission lately
[20:08:55] <ReadError_> Jymmm: lrn2cnc
[20:08:59] <ReadError_> well not really
[20:09:00] <gene__> This debug = hasn't worked in weeks for me. The only thing odd I added to the .ini was a "POSITION_FILE = position.txt", which seems to have killed the X touch off.
[20:09:09] <ReadError_> but, working on getting parts for my quad milled up
[20:09:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: you get radition bronze or nuttin!
[20:09:44] <pfred1> honestly I don't even know where this dirty chunk of metal came from
[20:09:58] <Jymmm> pfred1: Got Counter?
[20:10:16] <Jymmm> pfred1: "Do you have a radiating glow lately?"
[20:10:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: "Do you glow in the dark?"
[20:10:40] <pfred1> it has been said
[20:11:09] <pfred1> I'm spending more time out in the sun though lately
[20:11:14] <Jymmm> pfred1: "Are you sure the radiating glow about you is not due to YOU being pregnant?"
[20:11:37] <pfred1> I think it is due to my ancestors having dwelled in caves
[20:12:03] <Jymmm> Are these Rent-To-Own caves?
[20:12:36] <pfred1> one of my ancestors appears ot have owned Rome
[20:13:33] <Jymmm> pfred1: Did S/he own Ears-on-a-rope by chance?
[20:14:07] <pfred1> on the other side of my family a city here has it's motto because of him
[20:14:36] <Jymmm> motto?
[20:14:38] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison,_New_Jersey
[20:14:49] <pfred1> yeah was my great grandfather's nursery
[20:15:13] <pfred1> they were his roses
[20:15:26] <gene__> Ok, I just homed both axis's, made a test cut, measured it, and tried to do a touch off on x, entered 0.406, and linuxcnc quit
[20:15:55] <Tom_itx> put another quarter in
[20:17:28] <gene__> There is a bunch of NML related stuff that looks like normal operations in the cli I ran it from, basically quit time cleanup stuff.
[20:21:48] <gene__> I also did an "updatedb;locate position.txt" and came back empty, so that file wasn't created either. WTH?
[20:22:10] <andypugh> Sorry, I wasn't seeing updats.
[20:23:12] <andypugh> gene__: Well, first thing I would try would be reverting that POSITION_FILE thing. I wonder if the permissions are wrong on that file? Who is the owner?
[20:23:44] <gene__> I own everything in home/gene
[20:23:57] <pfred1> gene__ how can you be so sure?
[20:24:41] <gene__> I did, now I'll test if that fixes the touch off x thing, ls -lR is pretty good at that
[20:25:23] <pfred1> I've run X apps sudo and root ended up owning the associated dotfiles
[20:25:48] <pfred1> kind of annoying
[20:27:22] <gene__> Humm, just for S&G I put an 0x in front of the 7FFFFFFF, and that must have been the magic elixer, the cli is now very noisy, but lets repeat the crash it sequence
[20:28:03] <pfred1> I had a version of X Window where they forgot to do that once
[20:28:18] <pfred1> it really messed with my system clock
[20:29:12] <gene__> Ok, if I clear the offset, its fine, but if I enter a value, its gone in about 1.5 seconds
[20:29:34] <ReadError_> im tickled pink guys
[20:29:51] <ReadError_> finally cut something, even though its a very simple part
[20:32:25] <gene__> I have nothing extra in the .txt files in my /home/gene dir, and scanning back over the cli history says everything apparently complerted successfully.
[20:33:28] <gene__> And with no POSITION_FILE (# out) it still crashes, so that doesn't seem to be the cause.
[20:33:32] <andypugh> dmesg is the place to look.
[20:36:11] <gene__> No errors, last active is the parport address used, next line parport disabled, then RTAI[math] unloaded as it shuts down. no errors per sie
[20:44:43] <gene__> I did find some libreoffice stuff owned by root, so I chown -R gene:gene * just for grins, here goes again
[20:46:09] <gene__> Yup, non zero value in touch off for x, and it goes away
[20:47:08] <gene__> and same for z, 0.00001 makes it go away
[20:53:36] <skorket> Thanks all for your help
[20:54:02] <andypugh> gene__: That is very odd. Which version?
[20:55:25] <gene__> latest devel
[20:56:04] <gene__> I just checked with synaptic, nothing newer
[21:00:38] <gene__> I did find the position thing needs to be in the TRAJ section & moved it
[21:03:12] <andypugh> Well, if it is in the wrong place it simply won't be found. It it is optional, then that isn't it.
[21:03:45] <ReadError_> i need to get this d252 going
[21:03:54] <ReadError_> microcenter has 60gb SATA onsale for 50$
[21:03:58] <ReadError_> should I bite ?
[21:04:06] <ReadError_> err
[21:04:07] <gene__> fixed that, I now have a position.txt, full of long strings of zero's. But how is it remembering the offsets, they do "take" before it goes away!
[21:04:08] <ReadError_> 60GB SSD
[21:04:50] <gene__> and thy are restored when I restart
[21:04:51] <andypugh> That sounds a bargain, though I am finding 8GB to be fine on my CNC baord
[21:05:28] <Jymmm> 2MB is all you need
[21:06:48] <ReadError_> im just wondering
[21:06:49] <ReadError_> its cheap
[21:06:54] <ReadError_> dont need too much storage...
[21:16:33] <Jymmm> This is the SMARTEST thing I've seen in a while... http://www.nblmc.com/products/16-inch-solar-powered-fan-957453.html
[21:20:24] <ReadError_> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0364779
[21:22:05] <gene__> Q:are SECO CCMT carbide chips any good? I am chipping edges way too easily
[21:22:32] <Thetawaves> that is pretty cheap
[21:22:35] <Thetawaves> is it a good drive?
[21:24:16] <ReadError_> i got one in my vmware esxi box
[21:24:19] <ReadError_> no issues yet
[21:32:37] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i hate sites that have those floatie things
[21:32:46] <Jymmm> tell me about it
[21:32:59] <Tom_itx> so much that i refuse to buy from them
[21:33:27] <Jymmm> unless you are going to buy 100+ they do want to tlak with you anyway
[21:33:49] <Tom_itx> just as well
[21:47:44] <jdhNC> does anyone ever use the same stepper drives for more than one system? A bunch of DPDT switches or something?
[21:50:43] <Tom_itx> i'm setting up my plugs universal but made no plans to swap stuff
[21:51:29] <jdhNC> mine will have plugs, but I don't want to swap plugs.
[21:51:50] <jdhNC> I need a 12PDT switch
[21:53:24] <Tom_itx> my issue is that i'm using an old driver and swapping a new one that will be for this system and another new one
[21:53:45] <Tom_itx> at which time the old one will be put back on the sherline
[21:54:51] <jdhNC> I don't have room for two of everything and the machines will be next to each other.
[21:55:08] <Tom_itx> and using the new driver etc to learn linuxcnc in the process
[21:55:24] <Tom_itx> i don't either really
[21:55:46] <jdhNC> I got a new computer for the mill, but I kind of like having it up here for testing.
[21:56:21] <Tom_itx> yeah i wish i had a spare atom
[21:57:37] <Connor> jdhNC: You ever see my comments on the g0704 controller? the l1 and l2 inhibit switch? I wasn't sure if I told you or not..
[21:58:10] <jdhNC> yeah. Looks like it would be good for one of the relays on the C41
[21:58:28] <Connor> yea. using it on the NC side of the On/Off relay..
[21:58:47] <jdhNC> and there is ~12vdc on there I can borrow 50mA from?
[21:59:03] <ReadError> looks like i need to unetbootin this new board
[21:59:04] <Connor> yea, but I thought you could do 5v?
[21:59:07] <ReadError> since no IDE ports
[21:59:35] <jdhNC> I'll do the 5V from the PC. I have a little prox switch I'd like to try as an index pulse.
[22:00:00] <Connor> It's more than 12v.. It's 12-15vdc..
[22:00:15] <Connor> You'll want a voltage regulator in the mix..
[22:00:16] <Tom_itx> how much 5v do you need?
[22:00:17] <jdhNC> the switch is 10-30
[22:00:31] <jdhNC> 300mA of 5vdc
[22:01:12] <Tom_itx> i split the centertap on one of my trasformers and plan to run it to one of these: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
[22:01:34] <Tom_itx> i better beef up the input cap though
[22:02:04] <jdhNC> nice. I've seem some LM7805-alikes that use those. Same form factor/pins
[22:02:52] <Tom_itx> i had a layout half that size with the inductor on the bottom but never sent any off
[22:03:03] <jdhNC> do you get to sit around making little boards all day?
[22:03:24] <Tom_itx> not all day
[22:03:34] <Tom_itx> but i've been piddling for quite a while
[22:04:12] <jdhNC> if I didn't have to work every day, I'd have more time for important things!
[22:04:19] <Tom_itx> those are good for ~3A iirc
[22:04:32] <djdelorie> if I didn't have to work all day, I still wouldn't have enough time
[22:04:51] <Tom_itx> yeah and i'd still be broke
[22:04:57] <jdhNC> there is that.
[22:05:51] <jdhNC> we had a massive power outage at work today which ruined most of plans for accomplishing great things.
[22:05:52] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't mind doing it for a living if i could support myself with it
[22:06:20] <Tom_itx> and i did programming for a while but not full time
[22:06:50] <jdhNC> I did some fortran today.
[22:06:59] <Connor> I would like to get into more Robotics and Machine control.. doing web database crap all day .. I'm a bit over it..
[22:07:40] <jdhNC> DB stuff bores the hell out of me. One of the guys I work with is really good and likes its so I do most of the control stuff and he does the backends.
[22:08:17] <Connor> I do Database and web application stuff. Wife does the templates and content and graphics.
[22:08:30] <Tom_itx> most of the programming around here is for aircraft parts and short deadlines
[22:08:53] <jdhNC> my wife is a teacher with 4 degrees.. so I only make 2.5x as much as her.
[22:09:19] <Connor> We own the biz, so, we both make the same amount. :)
[22:09:39] <Connor> Would be nice if I could have this hobby make some money for itself..
[22:09:51] <jdhNC> I used to do that... worked in my basement off chapman highway.
[22:10:03] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Tell her to get a pair and a fake mustache, then she'll make 2.5x more than you =)
[22:10:18] <djdelorie> I write embedded development tools. I do electronics to *relax*
[22:10:44] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Then what was MS-DOS stuff for? You masocistic stage?
[22:10:53] <jdhNC> I am not particularly good at electronics, but I enjoy it.
[22:11:06] <Tom_itx> same here
[22:11:15] <djdelorie> at the time I wrote djgpp, I was designing 80386 PC motherboards. I needed something that ran on them :-)
[22:11:25] <Jymmm> djdelorie: oh, heh
[22:11:55] <Jymmm> djdelorie: surprising that it lingered for so long?
[22:12:01] <djdelorie> yes!
[22:12:06] <Connor> So, what does everyone here use their CNC's for?
[22:12:15] <djdelorie> making more cncs!
[22:12:17] <jdhNC> Connor: making parts for CNC
[22:12:20] <Jymmm> Connor: pr0n
[22:13:05] <Connor> Looks like more and more people are getting into Desktop manufacturing.. Benchtop mills, routers, and 3D printers..
[22:13:39] <djdelorie> there are a lot of cases in woodworking where I could use a cnc mill
[22:13:43] <Jymmm> Virtual has just becoem overrated, now people want tangible
[22:13:45] <jdhNC> I'd like a 3d printer, but I have yet to find a 3d modeling program I can figure out.
[22:13:55] <djdelorie> and maybe I can get an extruder head to work on it too :-)
[22:14:16] <Connor> I have 1 each Mill, Router, Printer.... I think I need a laser cutter/engraver next. :)
[22:14:28] <djdelorie> and the same machine can drill PCB board for me too, so win-win-win
[22:14:29] <jdhNC> what printer?
[22:14:34] <Connor> cupcake. :(
[22:14:48] <jdhNC> I wanted my router to make PCB's for something that I don't even remember
[22:14:50] <Connor> I have a extruder head I was working on for my router, but never finished it up.
[22:15:26] <djdelorie> heh. I wrote DJGPP as a tool to write 32-bit programs with, but ended up *just* writing DJGPP, and not the 32-bit programs I originally wanted...
[22:15:27] <jdhNC> oh, I ended up building it on an arduino + proto board
[22:15:32] <djdelorie> I suspect CNC machines are in the same category
[22:16:02] <Connor> My circuit for my endstops for the router are still on a breadboard.. I was going to use the router to make one and never did get the Z dialed in well enough to use V bits with.
[22:16:04] <jdhNC> I tried to use djgpp back in the day, but couldn't get it to work with the novell 'lan workplace for dos' in protected mode
[22:17:06] <djdelorie> mixing and matching 32-bit extenders never worked
[22:17:10] <Connor> Oh lord, Novell.. Ick.. I hated that.. and Lantastic..
[22:17:32] <jdhNC> it's still running. Every few years a new IT weenie will tell me we have to upgrade it because dos is unsupported and insecure and it might spread viruses.
[22:17:58] <Connor> ROFL. What version ?
[22:18:09] <jdhNC> I think it is 5.0
[22:18:46] <jdhNC> one of them told us we had to upgrade all our PLC's to XP.
[22:19:02] <Connor> ROFL
[22:19:43] <Connor> 4.11 was the one I used.. I think..
[22:20:16] <Jymmm> 3.11 4.01
[22:20:17] <Connor> or maybe 3.12
[22:20:22] <Connor> or both..
[22:20:25] <Jymmm> heh
[22:20:32] <Connor> heck.. that was a long time ago.
[22:20:57] <Jymmm> I have a 50 license for Netware 3 or for aroudn here somewhere on 25 FDD
[22:21:12] <Connor> ROFL.
[22:23:33] <Connor> I remember setting up a BBS network, using Lantastic via parallel port, QEMM Memmory Manager, and DEAQCiew
[22:23:40] <Connor> err. DESQview
[22:24:06] <Connor> and oh man, did we have a pain the a$$ time when the freaking soft modems hit the market..
[22:24:23] <jdhNC> there used to be some little computer store kind of west that ran a big bbs
[22:25:19] <Connor> jdhNC: Yup. That, my friend, is the company I used to work for. Name of the BBS was Dataworld BBS. Which had no real relation with the Dataworld's Micros-To-Go. (the company I started working for in 95)
[22:25:45] <Connor> in 95, He ran Primer BBS and Datacomp BBS in the back room and at his house.
[22:25:59] <jdhNC> perhaps I bought my Diamond SpeedStar from you.
[22:26:10] <Connor> That was before my time.
[22:26:27] <jdhNC> probably 93/94
[22:26:29] <Connor> I had a Star XT My dad got me from then.
[22:26:58] <Connor> a whopping 10 or 12 Mhz.. (I don't recall which exactly anymore), 20MB HD, and EGA!!
[22:27:11] <jdhNC> I had some generic XT I got after pouring through thousands of pages of that big mag/newspaper thing
[22:27:13] <Connor> I still have the hard drive. :)
[22:27:52] <jdhNC> mine had a 30meg rll
[22:27:53] <Connor> I worked for Dataworld from 95-2008.. Turned into a ISP.
[22:28:15] <jdhNC> do you know (of) John Farmer?
[22:28:33] <Connor> I built 95% of it up myself.. building the computers-- network etc..
[22:28:39] <Connor> Sounds familiar.. but, not personally.
[22:28:40] <jdhNC> GoldSword Systems.
[22:28:59] <jdhNC> I had an ISDN connection through him.
[22:29:41] <Connor> Oh yea.. ISDN.. Gotta love that.. I had a ISDN connection in late 95 or early 96...
[22:29:48] <Connor> It rocked.
[22:29:59] <jdhNC> and dirt cheap in TN
[22:30:01] <Connor> back before 56k modem was even out.. I think the top speed then was 33.6k
[22:30:05] <Connor> Yup.
[22:30:25] <Connor> Well made a ton on ISDN connections.. we had dialup and dedicated..
[22:30:29] <djdelorie> my first modem supported up to 600 baud
[22:30:44] <jdhNC> mine did 300 and you had to push a button
[22:30:45] <Connor> 2400baud on that XT.
[22:31:30] <Connor> I had a old Ti-99-4a that had a cassette tape that did, 110 I think ?
[22:32:24] <djdelorie> mine was an S100 card, no buttons
[22:33:38] <jdhNC> gotta be on a boat at 6am, later.
[23:54:51] <alex4nder> hey]
[23:59:27] <ReadError> alex4nder
[23:59:29] <ReadError> she cut ;)
[23:59:43] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/Asp82RnCMAIVEAe.jpg:large
[23:59:49] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/Asp_uB2CIAIolD2.jpg:large
[23:59:53] <ReadError> came out perfect