#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-08

[03:11:17] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:12:11] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[06:18:43] <Jymmm> Nice little CNC project... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pHCfXtRYCA
[06:29:58] <pjm__> lol, love the product placement, very amusing!
[07:06:46] <Jymmm> Could toss on a 1x4 on the cnc and cut those out pretty quickly.
[09:32:11] <r00t4rd3d> are they done yet?
[09:33:15] <r00t4rd3d> what would be the use of a wooden chain, lock up your wooden leg?
[09:33:28] <jdhNC> because you can?
[09:33:46] <r00t4rd3d> paint it metalic and take it to the truck mud bog
[09:33:55] <r00t4rd3d> I got this!
[09:35:13] <r00t4rd3d> make a wooden ball and attach it to your ankle
[10:18:43] <djdelorie> r00t4rd3d: wooden chains were the traditional test of carving skills. If you have to cut links in half and glue them back together, you've failed.
[10:40:55] <joe9> is there something to get the current tool radius?
[10:41:14] <joe9> some gcode, perhaps.
[10:42:01] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#sub:numbered-parameters
[10:43:59] <joe9> cradek: thanks.
[11:25:16] <jdhNC> nifty collection all in one place. I've seen most of those in their own sections.
[12:04:08] <Jymmm> Nice little CNC project... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pHCfXtRYCA
[12:04:44] <IchGuckLive> hi all around
[12:06:14] <TekniQue> Jymmm: how many times are you going to spam this? it's in no way CNC related
[12:06:49] <Jymmm> TekniQue: bunches and bunches
[12:07:02] <TekniQue> is it your video?
[12:07:51] <TekniQue> or are you affiliated with PC?
[12:08:08] <Jymmm> TekniQue: and it IS cnc related if you write the g-code and run it on your cnc machine, if you dont care for it just ignore it
[12:09:07] <TekniQue> doesn't bother me
[12:09:18] <TekniQue> I found it entertaining to watch
[12:21:55] <syyl_> nice video Jymmm
[12:22:00] <syyl_> that guy can explain pretty good
[12:22:18] <Jymmm> and speak really fast too! lol
[12:24:42] <Jymmm> right around 1:02 and 1:04 you can see the under the bottom teflon fabric, does that look like a seperate anvil from the the rest of the green metal or just sanded off? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfta0vYyeL0
[12:25:32] <Jymmm> or something else? Like another piece of tape or something?
[12:27:10] <Jymmm> If you look at around 1:34, you can see the end I think
[12:45:00] <adb> hello
[13:02:55] <IchGuckLive> adb: B)
[14:24:06] <TekniQue> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG0WfvW805Y
[14:24:08] <TekniQue> nice
[14:24:19] <TekniQue> supposedly, sub $10000 price tag!
[14:28:45] <andypugh> I'll take two!
[14:32:01] <JT-Shop> seems like my commutating reactor what ever the heck that does gets tired when warm and makes my drive trip out...
[14:33:00] <andypugh> Sounds like an inductive filter to smooth comutation spikes.
[14:34:08] <JT-Shop> it's the three phase thing in the middle wth the blue orb on top http://imagebin.org/211569
[14:34:29] <andypugh> http://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/the-digger-blog/view/how-to-build-a-cat-6030
[14:37:34] <andypugh> Yes, that looks like an inductor. Though it's difficult to see what the problem could be. Phase-phase shorts seem unlikely.
[14:38:19] * roycroft is happy he's taking his time pondering the new cnc gear
[14:38:35] <roycroft> my thinking is evolving from getting a zen toolworks cnc router to doing a cnc retrofit on my x3 milling machine
[14:38:46] <JT-Shop> after it gets warm ie I run it a short while the voltage starts to fluctuate and the drive trips out
[14:38:48] <roycroft> i *think* there will be enough y-axis travel to accomodate my pcb milling needs
[14:38:57] <roycroft> that's what i still have to ponder a bit
[14:43:45] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I wonder if it is shorting internally?
[14:43:56] <JT-Shop> what does a commutating reactor do?
[14:44:33] <JT-Shop> I don't see any signs of problems like smokey spots or anything
[14:46:30] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I think it's a filter.
[14:46:59] <archivist> JT-Shop, are the reactor and the drive both original fitment
[14:47:15] <JT-Shop> yes all original
[14:47:49] <JT-Shop> there is a big difference on voltage measured on each side of it
[14:47:53] <archivist> any shorted turns will cause over heating and loss of resonance/filtering
[14:49:27] <JT-Shop> on the transformer side the voltage is about 390vac between legs and on the drive input side it is 650vac
[14:51:05] <archivist> without a circuit/schematic /me is guessing
[14:53:25] <JT-Shop> the schematic just shows it inbtween the transformer and the infeed module of the drive
[15:04:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Pdbu5.jpg
[15:04:33] <r00t4rd3d> friggin paint job took me a week
[15:05:54] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Do you have a scope? I would guess it is a filter which squashes and broadens PWM.
[15:06:44] <JT-Shop> pwm to the infeed power module?
[15:06:54] <archivist> I wonder if the 650v he measures is just an artifact of the waveform
[15:07:12] <JT-Shop> or squashes it from the drive it self
[15:07:44] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError
[15:08:24] <alex4nder> yoh
[15:08:58] <alex4nder> joe9/ReadError: how are your PCB milling projects going? I'm about to build something myself.
[15:09:11] <JT-Shop> andypugh: yes I have a scope
[15:09:26] <alex4nder> r00t4rd3d: cool, what're you going to use that setup for?
[15:09:41] <r00t4rd3d> i dunno
[15:10:54] <r00t4rd3d> cut stuff
[15:11:33] <alex4nder> nice
[15:12:22] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Those 650v spikes (on the motor side?) could be produced by the commutation of the motor. (ie, rather like a magneto)
[15:12:34] <jdhNC> r00t: how are you going to hold work to the table?
[15:12:52] <r00t4rd3d> i dunno
[15:12:54] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[15:13:08] <r00t4rd3d> painters tape
[15:13:14] <alex4nder> haha
[15:13:17] <archivist> drill holes in the paint
[15:13:25] <r00t4rd3d> dont say that!
[15:13:29] <alex4nder> how flat is the table?
[15:13:35] <alex4nder> and what's it made out of?
[15:13:41] <r00t4rd3d> mdf
[15:13:44] <alex4nder> ah
[15:13:47] <r00t4rd3d> so its pretty flat
[15:13:52] <archivist> angle grind the paint off to find a surface to drill into
[15:14:03] <alex4nder> angle grinding MDF would be interesting
[15:14:29] <r00t4rd3d> who makes table clamps?
[15:14:36] <roycroft> it would be dusty, that's for sure
[15:14:39] <archivist> the user often
[15:14:49] <jdhNC> just get a belt sander and some 60grit to rough up the paint
[15:14:58] <r00t4rd3d> or how can i setup a clamping mechanism
[15:15:02] <roycroft> or a heat gun and a scraper
[15:15:14] <roycroft> what are you clamping?
[15:15:15] <alex4nder> or a pound of butter and some ducttape
[15:15:25] <r00t4rd3d> probably wood for starters
[15:15:30] <jdhNC> get some MDF, screw it to the table, replace as needed.
[15:15:41] <roycroft> fixed clamp positions?
[15:15:50] <r00t4rd3d> that would be nice
[15:15:58] <r00t4rd3d> or maybe holes i could move them around
[15:16:01] <archivist> drill a pattern of holes
[15:16:06] <roycroft> there are drill press table vice grips
[15:16:14] <Jymmm> MDF CAN be drilled and tapped on the surface, not on the edges
[15:16:19] <roycroft> you could drill holes in the mdf, insert tee-nuts from below, and use those
[15:17:22] <JT-Shop> andypugh: the 650vac is on the infeed side of the drive ie the main supplies
[15:17:28] <roycroft> like this, but find some for a lot less money:
[15:17:31] <roycroft> http://www.amazon.com/DELTA-17-922-9-Inch-Drill-Press/dp/tech-data/B00004Y9ES
[15:17:43] <JT-Shop> the DC buss is steady as in rock steady at 600vdc
[15:19:04] <andypugh> I think roycroft means: http://www.screwfix.com/p/tee-nuts-m8-x-17-5mm-pack-of-10/89734 but http://www.screwfix.com/p/insert-nut-type-d-m6-pack-of-50/59937 from the top would also work.
[15:19:17] <JT-Shop> the basic circuit is 240vac mains > three phase transformer > 390vac > commutating reactor > infeed module
[15:19:29] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2003911/INCRA-TTrack-and-TTrack-Plus.aspx
[15:19:31] <roycroft> yes, that's the tee-not part
[15:19:45] <roycroft> track clamps would also work well
[15:19:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:17740
[15:19:59] <r00t4rd3d> who has a 3d printer?
[15:20:13] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21276&rrt=1
[15:20:20] <roycroft> so would this likely be suitable as a jog controller: http://tinyurl.com/6lmefss ?
[15:20:31] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://www.rockler.com/gallery.cfm?Offerings_ID=21276&r=5&TabSelect=Details
[15:20:54] <r00t4rd3d> eww thats nice
[15:21:42] <archivist> JT-Shop, have you got capacitors after the reactor, can you measure the values
[15:21:43] <roycroft> and would it make sense to use it in the 8-way configuration, with x,y,z, and a axes all controlled by one joystick?
[15:21:45] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: you can run 2 or 3 tracks in an I or H config as example, they sell individual parts/tracks
[15:22:09] <JT-Shop> archivist: no it goes straight to the infeed module
[15:22:10] <roycroft> or does it make more sense to use 2 of them, each in a 4-way configuration?
[15:22:48] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[15:22:56] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I'd see if they have a "sliding rail" option to you can position the clamps anywhere along the tracks
[15:23:12] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: kinda a track on/in a track thing
[15:24:05] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna buy that setup
[15:24:10] <Jymmm> move the sliding track where you want it and lock it down, then move the clamps where you want them and tighten
[15:24:37] <roycroft> kind of like a gantry system
[15:24:38] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: you might want extra t-nuts too in case they dont give you enough with a kit
[15:24:44] <archivist> JT-Shop, googling commutating reactor shows up some stuff and pdf's to read
[15:25:15] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=22075&rrt=1
[15:25:20] <Jymmm> never saw that before
[15:26:28] <Jymmm> interesting http://www.rockler.com/gallery.cfm?Offerings_ID=22163&r=5&TabSelect=Details
[15:26:43] <Jymmm> found here http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=22163&rrt=1
[15:27:03] <Jymmm> nice lil fence stop
[15:27:10] <Jymmm> just flips out of the way
[15:27:25] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21387&site=ROCKLER
[15:27:31] <JT-Shop> archivist: I can't find anything relating to simodrive 611 communating reactor just general stuff that makes no sense to me :(
[15:27:34] <r00t4rd3d> that one comes with the clamps
[15:28:05] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: they have kits, look at everythign first befor eordering would be my suggesstion
[15:28:21] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: one kit http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21276&rrt=1
[15:28:40] <archivist> JT-Shop, it is saturated except during the switching bottom of article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_rectifier
[15:28:55] <JT-Shop> most stuff seems to be about vfd's
[15:29:15] <archivist> yup its controlling the current
[15:30:04] <r00t4rd3d> jymm that kit comes with no clamps and is 31 bucks, the one i linked is 33 and comes with 2 clamps
[15:30:50] <JT-Shop> mine must be a line/commutation reactor
[15:31:08] <archivist> JT-Shop, it limits peak current
[15:31:33] <archivist> As commutating reactor limiting peak current, suppressing reactions on ...
[15:31:58] <roycroft> the replacement controller board for my touchscreen is scheduled to be delivered today
[15:32:03] * archivist not downloading pdfs just looking at search results
[15:32:06] * roycroft is anxious to see if it works properly
[15:42:39] <andypugh> roycroft: I don't think you want to jog with a digital joystick. Why not use a PS2 controller?
[15:45:05] <roycroft> i want to be able to jog on the console
[15:45:20] <Loetmichel> hmmm, anyone tried to use a trackball to jog?
[15:45:21] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[15:45:34] <roycroft> yes, i've seen jog controllers with trackballs
[15:45:38] <Loetmichel> a big one from a arcade machine
[15:45:42] <roycroft> i don't know anything about arcade games
[15:45:48] <Loetmichel> with a whiteball from billard as trackball ;-)
[15:45:55] <roycroft> nor much about jog controllers for cnc machines
[15:46:05] <roycroft> i'm assuming i want something that's just a bunch of switches
[15:46:44] <roycroft> which is why i'm asking questions :)
[15:47:07] <andypugh> I would be tempted to dismantle a PS2 controller. That gives you a nice analogue joystick with a switch, plus several other bits of potentially useful IO.
[15:48:04] <roycroft> well i think i can get a ps2 controller really cheap at the goodwill
[15:48:09] <roycroft> so that might be a good place to start
[15:48:45] <andypugh> Indeed. Have a look at: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[15:48:51] <roycroft> and i figured on mocking up my console unit out of plywood until i get the configuration worked out the way i want, before i make it out of metal
[15:48:58] <andypugh> You can buy them brand-new really chaep.
[15:49:14] <JT-Shop> I like that page :)
[15:49:16] <roycroft> keep in mind i want both a console with complete control and a pendant
[15:49:21] <andypugh> Why would you want to jog from the console anyway?
[15:49:35] <roycroft> if i'm standing at the console doing stuff i might want to jog from there
[15:49:39] <roycroft> without having to grab the pendant
[15:49:46] <roycroft> also, the pendant might break some day
[15:50:01] <roycroft> by its nature it's more vulnerable than the console
[15:50:40] <roycroft> keep in mind also that i've never operated a cnc machine before
[15:50:49] <roycroft> and my perceived needs/wants may change as soon as i start using one
[15:51:02] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:53:48] <joe9> i have a while loop in my sub and the linuxcnc seems to be going to an interminable loop while backplotting (when I load the gcode file). is there any way to get more information what is going on?
[15:54:03] <roycroft> i wasn't thinking of proportional speed control on the joystick/joypad itself
[15:54:19] <JT-Shop> sounds like you have an infinate loop to me
[15:54:55] <roycroft> i was thinking about something that had simple switches at the extremes of each axis, and a rotating switch to set speed to 1x, 10x, 100x, for some value of x
[15:55:08] <JT-Shop> pastebin the while loop
[15:55:13] * roycroft obviously needs to do more research on that part
[15:55:35] <JT-Shop> or gain some experiance...
[15:55:55] * JT-Shop has found my needs vary from machine to machine
[15:56:31] <roycroft> both, i'm sure
[15:56:43] <joe9> JT-Shop: ok, thanks.
[15:57:42] <andypugh> joe9: There is a magic-comment that might help. (AXIS, stop)
[15:57:52] <JT-Shop> lol
[16:01:23] <andypugh> joe9: I think that "ESC" or possibly Crl-C will break the loop too.
[16:02:56] <DJ9DJ_> gn8
[16:04:53] <joe9> andypugh: thanks.
[16:19:02] <Guest91334> hi, im having troubles printig as PDF a leader program in ClassicLadder, Linuxcnc always crash, the program has 100 rungs, i dont have problems with small programs of 10 rungs or less. how can i print my program for documentation?
[16:30:46] <JT-Shop> Guest91334: can you get a screen capture of the ladder? I know it is a PIA but it might work
[16:40:04] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/08/nevada_license_google_car/
[16:41:54] <Guest91334> of all the leadder?, what i was able to do is to install the windows version of classicladder, open there the .clp program and print all from there, but i really think that is sad
[16:43:51] * JT-Shop never thinks it is sad when free stuff works even if you have to work around something
[16:44:13] <JT-Shop> of course you could dive in and fix the classicladder code and then you would be happy
[16:53:46] <JT-Shop> I wonder if a GP line reactor will work in place of the Siemens one?
[16:55:53] <JT-Shop> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives/AC_Drive_%28VFD%29_Spare_Parts_-a-_Accessories/AC_Line_Reactors/LR-4025
[17:14:59] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Expensive to find out, unfortunately. And it could be that the fault is in the blue-bit.
[17:19:42] <JT-Shop> andypugh: that one is not expensive unless your referring to blowing up the whole kit
[17:20:19] <andypugh> Well, $142 seems a fair chunk of cash if the problem is somewhere else.
[17:20:53] <JT-Shop> the siemens ones I found were $2k and not the exact match...
[17:21:13] <JT-Shop> do you think it would run if I bypassed it?
[17:22:57] <JT-Shop> I'd have to say it is either the line reactor or the input module, but when running I see voltage drops on the output from the line reactor but not on the input side
[17:27:13] <andypugh> I think if you bypassed it you would risk damage to the drive. Though, from the symptoms, I would expect the drive to fault immediately rather than when the reactor ets hot.
[17:29:03] <JT-Shop> yea, I think your correct
[17:30:19] <Tom_itx> what's a line reactor do?
[17:30:27] <Tom_itx> is it isolation or just what?
[17:32:44] <Tom_itx> nevermind
[17:32:48] <Tom_itx> i read about it
[17:33:44] <Tom_itx> http://www.cosphi.com/line-load-reactor-applications.html
[17:36:35] * JT-Shop grabs a beer and reads the link
[17:36:56] <djdelorie> sounds like a fancy name for "inductor"
[17:37:34] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_reactor
[17:37:59] <JT-Shop> I wonder how they make the so called CNC phase converters?
[17:38:10] <djdelorie> link?
[17:38:41] <JT-Shop> for?
[17:38:46] <djdelorie> an example CNC phase converter
[17:38:58] <JT-Shop> I'd have to google one for you
[17:39:02] * djdelorie can do that
[17:39:07] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_phase_converter
[17:40:22] <Tom_itx> all part of the magic of ac circuits
[17:40:57] <andypugh> I made a rotary convertor which doubled the voltage too. It very nearly worked.
[17:40:57] <JT-Shop> yea, good thing we didn't go with DC or China would not have any copper
[17:41:00] <djdelorie> if it's like my generator, they adjust the stator field power to keep the voltage in spec
[17:41:45] <djdelorie> my propane generator has - they claim - more accurate voltage than the street power
[17:42:22] <Tom_itx> it it probably a dc generator with an electronic phase control
[17:43:18] <JT-Shop> http://www.powertransformer.us/aclinereactor.htm
[17:43:18] <djdelorie> if you're going to use electronics, you don't need the spinning bits at all
[17:44:16] <djdelorie> the driver chip in my BLDC controller is designed to run three-phase inverters...
[17:44:25] <Tom_itx> gawd i wish my boards would get here
[18:28:30] <r00t4rd3d> what kinda boards?
[19:18:56] <Jymmm> PET FOOD RECALL http://shine.yahoo.com/pets/pet-food-recalled-after-salmonella-outbreak.html
[19:19:32] <Tom_itx> heard about that today
[19:21:48] <JT-Shop> I wondered why I was feeling ill today
[19:23:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I thought we told you to limit your diet to top ramen?
[19:23:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: no for chew bones for you!
[19:24:00] <Jymmm> s/for/more/
[19:27:43] <JT-Shop> dang I fell asleep and forgot
[19:28:12] <Jymmm> you forgot you fell asleep or you fell asleep to forget?
[19:32:27] <JT-Shop> I can't remember
[19:33:07] <Jymmm> Then just go to sleep
[19:33:23] <JT-Shop> I'm busy drinking and making cannon parts
[19:33:54] <djdelorie> CWI - cannoning while intoxicated
[19:33:55] <Jymmm> I guess that's better than cannoning and making drink parts
[19:34:03] <JT-Shop> LOL
[19:34:29] <JT-Shop> djdelorie: did you see the vid?
[19:34:34] <tjb1> Evening all.
[19:35:03] <JT-Shop> lovely evening at that
[19:35:13] <djdelorie> probably not. Which one?
[19:35:26] * JT-Shop wonders why the speeelll checker is borked
[19:35:29] <Jymmm> only 1730 here, so not evening yet
[19:35:29] <JT-Shop> the cannon vid
[19:35:40] <JT-Shop> from Sunday
[19:35:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the 130MB one?
[19:36:07] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/cannon/cannon.xhtml
[19:36:52] <JT-Shop> oh crap I don't have a photo for #12... someone will complain for sure
[19:37:41] <djdelorie> your plasma gallery is missing most of the photos...
[19:38:28] <tjb1> I thought that was my computer...
[19:38:33] <JT-Shop> yea, they are still on photobucket
[19:38:41] <djdelorie> are you the one in orange?
[19:38:59] <JT-Shop> lighting the cannon? no, that is a friend
[19:39:26] <JT-Shop> http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/
[19:39:33] <Jymmm> djdelorie: JT-Shop is the ugly one
[19:39:51] <JT-Shop> yea, camera shy...
[19:39:52] <Jymmm> heh
[19:40:04] <djdelorie> I've seen that plasma gallery, it's the other one that's missing photos
[19:40:24] <JT-Shop> yea, not had time to copy them over
[19:41:31] <tjb1> Someone should find my hdd and speed the delivery up
[19:41:53] <Jymmm> tjb1: I'm working on it
[19:42:05] <JT-Shop> who is this ugly guy http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/HPIM1988-1-1.jpg
[19:42:05] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you do know the video is 130MB ?
[19:42:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you
[19:42:41] <JT-Shop> yea, I've not had time to edit it... got any thoughts on what to edit a .mov file with
[19:42:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You are one ugly son of a bitch =)
[19:42:56] <JT-Shop> lol
[19:43:05] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'm working on it, 6 more minutes
[19:43:28] <gene__> PID questions again. I have pid.0.FF0=1.0, and Pgain at .2, Igain,Dgain at0.0. Working fairly well but takes severaql seconds to accelerate the last 5% to the setpoint.
[19:43:47] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: but we still love ya!
[19:47:07] <gene__> with 301 at command in, the error output hovers around 295, should that not be close to zero?
[19:47:17] * JT-Shop wanders inside to see about chow
[19:47:33] <Jymmm> hang on JT-Shop
[19:47:46] <djdelorie> gene__: the Igain is what fixes up "off-by" errors
[19:47:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: jthornton hang on
[19:48:12] <djdelorie> and that pretty much exhausts my knowledge of PID ;-)
[19:48:17] <gene__> Ok thanks, brb
[19:49:47] <djdelorie> assuming P is set right, that is...
[19:51:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: jthornton Here is a link you can give out to show the video http://v6.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=2zhk1h0
[19:53:04] <gene__> Igain at .2, and it slowly takes off to max rpm w/o ever reducing the error. Pgain is .2 atm, needs to go up?
[19:53:55] <djdelorie> in general, you set P as high as you can *without* causing overshoot or oscillation, before setting I or D
[19:57:01] <Valen> the rule of thumb is to raise p till it oscilates (test at many speeds and all over the length of travel)
[19:57:01] <Valen> then back off by 20-30%
[19:57:44] <Valen> then add FF1 till the cruise has a minimum ferror (ie it should hover around 0)
[19:58:15] <Valen> then add some I to null out creeping ferror
[19:58:38] <Valen> (stuff like the screw being out, so you get a sine wave in your ferror in time with the screw)
[19:59:07] <Valen> then add the teensyest drop of D to smooth out the overshoot from the I
[19:59:27] <Valen> look at perhaps a little FF2 to minimise ferror during accelerations
[20:00:02] <tjb1> what would I read to understand what is being talked about?
[20:00:03] <Valen> for reference my metric mm machine has a P of 8, an I of 80 and a D of .05
[20:00:31] <alangarf> @tjbl wikipedia on PID.
[20:00:31] <Valen> generic pid tuning stuff
[20:00:38] <Valen> it only applies for servo machines though
[20:00:43] <djdelorie> Valen: then a pinch of salt for taste...
[20:01:16] <tjb1> Does not apply to me then
[20:01:49] <djdelorie> it gets worse. For position servos, you often have multiple nested pid loops that have to be independently tuned
[20:03:15] <tjb1> Played with 3 channel encoders in electronics class…that was enough fun for me
[20:03:29] <tjb1> And we only hooked up 1 channel
[20:06:44] <gene__> Pgain at 5.8 is stable, but 2 clicks to wide open rpms, so I assume FF0 needs to go back down by a similar scale?
[20:07:01] <djdelorie> FF0 should be zero during P setting
[20:07:26] <djdelorie> or is that FF1? I get them confused...
[20:09:30] <gene__> Humm, FF0=0.1 Pgain=10 and its two steps to wide open
[20:10:01] <gene__> remember, this is velocity, not position
[20:10:08] <djdelorie> spindle?
[20:11:23] <gene__> yes, first step up from creep at on is to 17 rps!
[20:12:13] * djdelorie doesn't have spindles, so doesn't know
[20:14:59] <gene__> Pgain=20 FF0=0, its just multiplying the 101 input to 2020, wide open, where do I scale that down?
[20:15:31] <r00t4rd3d> gene__, do you have a pic of your machine ?
[20:18:45] <gene__> Not recent, its a 7x12, stock spindle controler with a C41 interface. And I just found the spindle speed override can turn it back down, at 6 RPS, its damned stiff, quick and still stable.
[20:22:29] <gene__> I'll see if I can get a pic of it on my page by tomorrow night
[20:43:48] <alex4nder> hey
[20:51:12] <Jymmm> alex4nder: WHAT!
[20:52:33] * Tom_itx puts a muzzle on Jymmm
[20:53:21] * Jymmm slaps the shit out of Tom_itx with a HF mill!
[20:53:56] <djdelorie> Children! Behave!
[20:54:02] * Tom_itx thanks Jymmm for the mill
[20:54:12] * Jymmm flings poo at djdelorie
[20:54:22] <djdelorie> Monkeys! Behave!
[20:54:41] <r00t4rd3d> whats the difference between a mill and a router?
[20:55:07] <Tom_itx> durability?
[20:55:07] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: a outer usually does wood, mill usually does metal
[20:55:31] <djdelorie> the right question is, what's the difference between a spindle and a router
[20:55:38] <r00t4rd3d> ok
[20:55:40] <Tom_itx> a mill mfg's paper or flour
[20:55:45] <Tom_itx> etc
[20:55:46] <Jymmm> djdelorie: 12HP
[20:55:56] <Tom_itx> a router is what you use to connect to the interweb
[20:55:58] <Jymmm> djdelorie: and 15K RPM
[20:56:03] <djdelorie> spindles are designed for continuous use and higher side loads than routers
[20:56:53] <alex4nder> hmmm
[20:56:54] <Jymmm> and greasyer
[20:57:07] <Jymmm> =)
[20:58:54] <djdelorie> a router is also typically designed to be hand-held, where a spindle is almost always used mounted in a machine
[21:02:44] <tjb1> Jymmm: Does my design look like it could also support a router?
[22:17:07] <jdhNC> ITYM: hey nondem, ywmf
[22:17:16] <jdhNC> <urk>
[22:44:15] <jdhNC> I am not a dumbass, but I'm not voting for him either.
[22:44:23] <jdhNC> twice!