#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-06

[02:17:19] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:18:27] <alex4nder> hey
[04:00:22] <KimK> !help later
[04:00:53] <KimK> !later
[04:03:03] <archivist> kimk !later nick message
[04:13:16] <KimK> archivist: Thanks! I thought that's what it was, but I wasn't sure. Already sent by email anyway, lol. I appreciate it though, I'll know next time.
[04:14:02] <alex4nder> sup
[04:15:24] <KimK> Not much, what's up there?
[04:15:33] <alex4nder> nothing much
[04:15:40] <alex4nder> trying my new mill control setup for the first time
[04:15:54] <alex4nder> hopefully I'll be able to hit 100 IPM
[04:16:24] <KimK> Great, let us know how it goes.
[04:16:42] <archivist> speed is not the most important specification unless its mass production
[04:17:08] <alex4nder> well speed is the only improvement that is going to be made over my old setup
[04:17:19] <alex4nder> everything else 'just worked'
[04:18:32] <alex4nder> this is a new N2800 atom, running Debian, with working modern wifi, with a local build of
[04:20:26] <archivist> just that I see a few in here chasing that last bit of speed but forgetting the torque is dropping off there steppers :)
[04:24:08] <alex4nder> yah
[04:24:28] <alex4nder> I specifically picked steppers with small inductance, since I've got 20 TPI screws
[04:24:41] <alex4nder> I figured I didn't need a lot of torque because of the inherent mechanical advantage.
[04:24:57] <alex4nder> I think my steppers have holding torque of 120 oz/in
[04:27:29] <archivist> I like to leave a lot of headroom for friction, cutting load and fixture weight causing yet more friction
[04:28:29] <archivist> and that other hidden one, friction caused by the cutting load
[04:28:39] <alex4nder> yup
[04:28:49] <alex4nder> I've been loading my mill down to test failure
[04:29:10] <alex4nder> so far the only failures I've had have been due to improper chip clearing on aluminum, leading to smears.
[04:29:10] <archivist> time for me to go play steam engine driver
[04:29:14] <alex4nder> late
[04:30:15] <archivist> climb milling can give a better finish with aluminium
[04:31:15] <archivist> less chance of of that smearing / re cutting of chips
[04:31:49] <archivist> but the machine has to be capable
[04:38:41] <alex4nder> archivist: my problems are all related to improper feeds and speeds.
[06:20:50] <_abc_> hello. Is there a current way to install a testing linuxcnc version on a USB stick?
[06:20:56] <_abc_> If there is, then I can't find it.
[06:21:06] <jthornton> check the wiki
[06:21:33] <_abc_> jthornton: was that for me?
[06:22:57] <_abc_> http://cooltool.he.fdread.org/cncforum/ this page is gone
[06:37:13] <_abc_> fdread.org seems to be gone, does anyone know if this is a temporary server upgrade or failure, or if this is a permanent 'goner'?
[06:46:10] <psha> _abc_: just install it to USB stick like to normal disk
[06:46:13] <psha> that's all you need
[06:49:36] <_abc_> psha: I will try that tomorrow but I want to read all first
[06:50:13] <_abc_> psha: I need to put it temporarily on a working system without nuking the old one before the new one works so whatever I will do will have to be totally side effect fault free
[06:50:39] <_abc_> If I oops a partition because of some automated system in the install I did not know about I will be pissed and it will take days to restore the old one
[06:50:57] <_abc_> So thanks for the info, but please reassure me here, there will be NO side effects?
[06:51:15] <_abc_> I might pull the hard disks and install to stick using just live cd and usb stick on the machine
[06:51:25] <_abc_> Would that work? There is enough ram for sure
[06:51:27] <freespace> do that if you arereally worried
[06:51:44] <freespace> it is always possible you will accidentally the wrong disk
[06:51:50] <_abc_> Yes I am really worried, I have some work to do and I hope to test this 'in between' and install it later this week if all is okay
[06:51:51] <freespace> even if the installer itself has no side effects
[06:52:12] <_abc_> Oh I have been developing on linux since ~1995 I seldomly make such mistakes
[06:52:38] <_abc_> But I am worried about it detecting some existing squash fs left there from other attempts and accessing and installing or otherwise acting on that
[06:52:39] <freespace> :)
[06:52:50] <freespace> it would be very specific about which disk to touch
[06:52:55] <_abc_> There may be ancient init scripts and stuff in there which can cause quite a knot if run now
[06:53:43] <_abc_> Is the stick-only distro based on 2.4 dead now? There seems to be no final message about that, so, being an optimist, I assume it is still around...
[06:54:02] <freespace> given how worried you are, just pull the hdd first, or image the hdd, before installing
[06:54:09] <_abc_> yeah I will do that anyway
[06:54:15] <_abc_> We will see how this goes
[06:54:23] <_abc_> 8GB stick enough? :)
[06:54:25] <freespace> you can probably convince the iso to boot off a usb stick
[06:54:39] <_abc_> freespace: yes, I hope I will be able to.
[06:55:03] <freespace> 8gb will be more than enough :)
[06:55:11] <_abc_> Okay, has any one of you actually done this?
[06:55:18] <_abc_> Installed onto a stick? Recently? 10.4 ?
[06:57:52] <freespace> nope
[06:57:54] <freespace> *not me
[06:59:46] <psha> _abc_: there will be _no_ side effects if you install it onto USB flash drive on separate computer
[06:59:57] <psha> otherwase there are chances that you bust your old system
[07:00:05] <psha> select incorrect partition etc
[07:00:14] <_abc_> psha: I know. I will pull the disk and do it that way
[07:00:36] <_abc_> Okay so this seems to be set. Fingers crossed...
[07:00:51] <psha> however it's not that simple to mess flash drive (which is usually small) with hard disk (which is large)
[07:00:54] <freespace> image the drive if you are so worried
[07:00:58] <_abc_> Does booting from multi partitioned usb sticks usually work?
[07:01:14] <_abc_> I have no idea what bios I have on that machine
[07:01:15] <psha> usually yes
[07:01:34] <_abc_> Okay so thanks for the info, I will report back, hopefully success.
[07:01:36] <psha> if you are able to boot from flash there is no difference paritioned it is or not
[07:01:39] <jthornton> good morning psha
[07:01:43] <psha> jthornton: good day :)
[07:01:56] <psha> spring here, finally cleaned windows
[07:02:05] <_abc_> from your disks? :)
[07:02:07] <jthornton> it is hot here all ready
[07:02:13] <psha> in my flat ;)
[07:02:27] <psha> i've cleaned windows from my disks 10 years ago :)
[07:02:55] <psha> anybody used goodle drive as encrypted backup?
[07:03:15] <jthornton> psha, I'm trying to use a small make file to add index.tmpl like the linuxcnc docs but don't have a clue what to do. I've found the lines in the submakefile...
[07:03:46] <psha> Submakefile may be used standalone
[07:03:51] <psha> at least it was some time ago
[07:04:23] <jthornton> this is what I have for my make file so far http://pastebin.com/G3TB1u5Z
[07:04:36] <psha> jthornton: 2.5?
[07:05:16] <jthornton> no, just a small doc I'm working on
[07:05:28] <jthornton> this seems to be part of what I need http://pastebin.com/Xc4C2STM
[07:05:30] <psha> what was index.tmpl?
[07:06:23] <jthornton> this is my index.tmpl http://pastebin.com/YpGaadwD
[07:07:44] <psha> why not to make index.txt and generate index.html from it?
[07:08:09] <jthornton> ok, I think I know what you mean
[07:08:22] <jthornton> much simpler yea
[07:08:35] * jthornton smacks forhead
[07:08:38] <jthornton> thanks
[07:09:09] <psha> index.tmpl is something left from old times
[07:09:21] <psha> since migration was too serious that parts was not involved
[07:09:39] <jthornton> ok thanks
[07:15:18] <jthornton> psha, thanks I have that working now :-)
[07:16:33] <Jymmm> Mornin
[07:17:13] <jthornton> morning Jymmm
[07:26:53] <r00t4rd3d> -_o
[07:27:20] <Jymmm> jthornton: Canon gong to be ready for the 4th?
[07:27:26] <Jymmm> going
[07:27:36] <jthornton> going to fire it today
[07:28:04] <Jymmm> jthornton: Cool, be sure to setup the video camera
[07:28:19] <Jymmm> jthornton: we need to see the expression on your face too =)
[07:28:26] <r00t4rd3d> i got a cannon
[07:28:35] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.pocketartillery.com/
[07:30:03] <r00t4rd3d> i tried to fire it once but all i got was a big puff of smoke
[07:30:19] <r00t4rd3d> think i used the wrong powder
[07:31:08] <jthornton> could be a dangerous mistake to make when firing a cannon
[07:31:39] <r00t4rd3d> it was just black powder, it could have been damp though
[07:31:59] <jthornton> no such thing as "just black powder"
[07:32:10] <jthornton> F, FF, FFF, FFFF
[07:32:20] <jdhNC> http://www.pocketcannons.com/
[07:32:37] <r00t4rd3d> i guess i should be using FFFF
[07:33:22] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.pocketartillery.com/minicannon.pdf
[07:33:22] <jthornton> that is touch off powder! you should never guess at gun powder
[07:34:10] <r00t4rd3d> "Hodgdons Triple Seven FFFg seems to work very well"
[07:34:17] <r00t4rd3d> ok FFF
[07:35:29] <jthornton> and weigh your charges and know if you have anything in the barrel it will increase the pressures
[07:35:40] <jthornton> we use wadded up tin foil mostly for a cannon ball
[07:35:55] <r00t4rd3d> mine fires BB's
[07:36:11] <jthornton> but a patched lead ball takes less powder due to the tighter fit and more mass
[07:36:19] <jthornton> cool
[07:37:22] <Jymmm> jthornton: Do you ever go hunting/backpacking etc?
[07:44:12] <jthornton> not any more
[07:46:31] <Jymmm> jthornton: PM?
[08:32:35] <syyl_ws> FFFF stands for FFFFFFaaast burning?
[08:48:59] <jthornton> yea
[08:49:34] <jthornton> actually it is how fine the powder is
[08:53:25] <jthornton> new chapter today :-) http://gnipsel.com/shop/emc2/tutorial/tut03.html
[09:35:10] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: well pidgin seems to work on the shop sinblows computer
[09:35:13] <Tom_itx> good stuff jt
[09:35:28] <JT-Shop> the tutorial?
[09:35:30] <Tom_itx> does it work the same for linuxcnc?
[09:35:33] <Tom_itx> :)
[09:35:40] <Tom_itx> yeah
[09:36:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: cool
[09:36:17] <JT-Shop> thanks, I just moved it around on my web site the new url is http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/index.html
[09:36:48] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: does what work the same for linuxcnc?
[09:37:03] <Tom_itx> the tutorial, i was kidding
[09:37:26] <JT-Shop> LOL it is for LinuxCNC
[09:37:55] <Tom_itx> i guess it's not illegal to have a directory so named
[09:37:58] <JT-Shop> what's the next chapter?
[09:38:12] <JT-Shop> ah the old directory is gone now
[09:39:31] <cylly2> JT-Shop: looks fine... great effort... i hope you get it finished ;-)
[09:39:41] <JT-Shop> thanks
[09:40:31] <Tom_itx> yeah that will help you and noobs alot
[09:40:33] <JT-Shop> I'll keep plugging away at it... now when someone asks "is there a G code tutorial for LinuxCNC?" we can say yea
[09:40:49] <Tom_itx> it's why i wrote an avr tutorial, i got tired of explaining it over and over
[09:41:47] <cylly2> hrhr, sounds familiar ;-)
[09:42:14] <cylly2> only i do it in a german chqannel for µCs and electronics
[09:43:25] <cylly2> and there are tutorials... but the kids are not able to read anymore i think.
[09:43:32] <cylly2> "tl;dr"
[09:44:08] <pfred1> cylly2 are you being too silly again?
[09:44:14] <cylly2> oh
[09:44:18] <cylly2> sorray
[09:44:57] <pfred1> I read and read and read and lately i feel like I'm being drawn around in circles
[09:45:15] <Loetmichel> atm i am bathing, not silly
[09:45:18] <Loetmichel> :-)
[09:45:26] <pfred1> right now I'm trying to get some kind of coherent font rendering in Debian good luck on that front!
[09:46:20] <pfred1> if anything has even the slightest whiff of licensing they patch it out
[09:46:49] <JT-Shop> what's that for?
[09:46:51] <pfred1> I mean they don't even ship the standard X font packages because a couple of those have questionable licensing
[09:47:56] <pfred1> it also appears that their xft cairo and fontconfig packages are fubared in subtle ways
[09:47:58] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel, if you wrote them in 'txting' format they could understand it
[09:49:41] <JT-Shop> anyone want to leave then join so I can see if I have that white noise turned off?
[09:50:12] <Tom_itx> ?
[09:50:24] <pfred1> OK
[09:50:45] <pfred1> there gone and back again
[09:52:18] <JT-Shop> darn, it didn't work... thanks
[09:54:07] <Tom_itx> i suppress join, part, nickchange, quit and mode
[09:54:29] <JT-Shop> I'm trying to configure pidgin on my winblows computer
[09:54:48] <Tom_itx> are you using xchat?
[09:55:12] <JT-Shop> only on my linux machines, they want $20 for a winblows version
[09:55:23] <Tom_itx> not the one i use
[09:55:31] <Tom_itx> maybe it's just old
[09:55:44] <JT-Shop> yea, mine is recent
[09:55:58] <Tom_itx> 2.8.6-2
[09:56:13] <Tom_itx> i don't use it alot
[09:57:53] <pfred1> I use irssi
[09:59:11] <pfred1> basically because it reminds me a lot of BitchX which I used for a long time but now BX is gone
[10:01:18] <Tom_itx> hopefully i'll get my cap boards soon so i can finish my psu
[10:03:53] <pfred1> Tom_itx I want to build a switching supply after reading so much about them
[10:04:13] <pfred1> linears are ho hum to me anymore done that too much
[10:04:33] <Tom_itx> i would have too but i got alot of this surplus
[10:05:06] <Tom_itx> just a place to mount the caps really: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu_board.png
[10:05:32] <Tom_itx> i would have preferred them have screw lugs
[10:06:45] <Tom_itx> i added an led to each one to use as a drain when it's shut off
[10:07:25] <pfred1> Tom_itx this is one way I mount caps http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1641/p1010007ep.jpg
[10:07:39] <pfred1> the big copper plate effect
[10:12:06] <Tom_itx> yeah, these don't have screw mounts
[10:12:44] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu1.jpg
[10:13:03] <Tom_itx> i have a bunch of those to wire in
[10:14:33] <pfred1> Tom_itx running the xformers in series for higher voltage?
[10:14:57] <Tom_itx> current
[10:15:10] <pfred1> ah parallel then?
[10:15:37] <Tom_itx> yeah
[10:15:49] <Tom_itx> i had the parts so i joined them after the bridges
[10:16:17] <Tom_itx> i could have used one
[10:16:26] <pfred1> I always heard if one was a little more V than the other that doesn't work out
[10:16:29] <Tom_itx> they are matched pretty close
[10:17:21] <Tom_itx> if it doesn't, i'm not out much. i'll just get a torroid at that point
[10:17:44] <pfred1> I'm using a big xformer I pulled out of a minicomputer I stripped
[10:18:04] <pfred1> there were 2 13.5 windings in it I wired in series
[10:18:10] <pfred1> huge magnet wires
[10:18:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[10:18:48] <Tom_itx> i split one at the center tap so i could have a bit lower voltage to send to my smps for the logic supply
[10:19:50] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
[10:19:55] <Tom_itx> i'll use one of those for that
[10:19:55] <pfred1> I like those block bridges i use them a lot
[10:20:32] <pfred1> though not as many in one project as you have http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu4.jpg
[10:20:49] <pfred1> I think they're good to about 10 amps a piece
[10:20:56] <Tom_itx> those are 25A
[10:21:01] <JT-Shop> looks like pidgin ain't going to work with Wildblue
[10:21:03] <pfred1> OK 25A then
[10:21:06] <Tom_itx> i don't need all of them really
[10:21:27] <pfred1> I can't imagine you do unless you're heating your hot tub with this
[10:21:32] <Tom_itx> heh
[10:21:44] <Tom_itx> i was too lazy to figure out the phases for each transformer
[10:21:57] <Tom_itx> and like i said, i already had the parts
[10:21:59] <pfred1> yeah that is one thin
[10:22:05] <pfred1> thing even
[10:22:21] <pfred1> I used ot think AC was AC until I messed around with a variac
[10:22:43] <pfred1> turns out hot and neutral really are different
[10:23:08] <Tom_itx> i could get by with one of those but i'm building this for furture expansion
[10:23:23] <pfred1> hooke it up one way and clockwise adjust made the V go down flip and it reversed
[10:23:32] <Tom_itx> and i've already got drivers etc on the sherline
[10:24:10] <Tom_itx> it should be big enough to drive a small bp or table mill i think
[10:24:11] <pfred1> it drove me batty until I finally conceded that OK AC ain't AC
[10:24:31] <pfred1> like you said each of those bridges is 12A
[10:24:36] <pfred1> 25 even
[10:24:54] <pfred1> the real thing is watts though
[10:25:13] <pfred1> but having them screwed to that aluminum should help
[10:25:27] <Tom_itx> if not i'll put them on a chunk of that heatsink
[10:25:44] <pfred1> nah they'll be fine
[10:25:53] <pfred1> though sometimes I heatsink compound them
[10:26:07] <Tom_itx> i plan to
[10:26:13] <Tom_itx> when it's all done
[10:26:17] <pfred1> yeah stuff is a mess until final assembly
[10:26:38] <pfred1> I worked at a place we'd get it by the quart can
[10:26:45] <pfred1> put it on with putty scrapers
[10:27:34] <pfred1> well what we did is we'd get a piece of corrugated cardboard and smear it on that then smear the parts on the smeared cardboard
[10:27:46] <pfred1> worked pretty good
[10:37:03] <jdhNC> what happens if you put two SMPS in parallel?
[10:37:39] <pfred1> jdhNC whiechever one is higher voltage is going to take the load and the lower voltage one become a load
[10:38:12] <pfred1> sometimes there is even smoke and fire involved
[10:40:28] <jdhNC> I like smoke and fire, but not in this context.
[10:41:05] <jdhNC> how about connected via diodes?
[10:41:28] <pfred1> this PSU has 3 current boosting transistors but it also has 3 current balancing resistors http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2244/pict0579s.jpg
[10:41:38] <pfred1> well 6 because i didn'
[10:41:44] <pfred1> well 6 because i didn't have the right value resistors
[10:41:59] <pfred1> the resistors i used are in parallel
[10:42:18] <pfred1> that sucker can weld
[10:43:26] <pfred1> it is a neat PSU you can't short it out it is current limiting
[10:44:10] <pfred1> you can touch the leads together and go oh neat sparks and it doesn't care
[10:44:43] <Tom_itx> the cap might if you do it enough
[10:45:01] <pfred1> it doesn't seem to mind either believe me I've don it :)
[10:45:06] <pfred1> done it even
[10:45:24] <pfred1> GE makes nice caps
[10:45:32] <pfred1> well made
[10:45:46] <pfred1> I shudder to think what that thing cost
[10:47:01] <pfred1> I need to make a soft start circuit for it though it does sort of make the xformer hum when i flip it on
[10:47:54] <Tom_itx> just warms it up for the day
[10:48:26] <pfred1> I have my patented bleeder LED on it it takes a while to bleed down
[10:49:12] <pfred1> plus that PSU has a 510 ohm resistor across it just for stability
[10:49:37] <Tom_itx> 5w?
[10:49:51] <pfred1> I can't remember it ain't no 1/4 watt as I can recall
[10:49:52] <Tom_itx> what are those mounted to the aluminum?
[10:50:01] <Tom_itx> or near it
[10:50:06] <pfred1> those are current boosting transistors
[10:50:17] <Tom_itx> the resistors
[10:50:18] <pfred1> oh those are the current balancing resistors
[10:50:34] <pfred1> they're what you need when you parallel current sources
[10:50:48] <pfred1> or you get a push me pull me
[10:51:06] <pfred1> which if you're not Dr. Doolittle ain't usually what you're after
[10:51:37] <pfred1> they make a couple thousandths of a volt difference between your current sources not matter
[10:53:05] <pfred1> Tom_itx see all the sources hook to the common rail through them
[10:53:33] <pfred1> so they're not connected right to each other but between 2 of those resistors in series
[10:53:44] <pfred1> of course one resistor wins over 2
[10:54:31] <pfred1> ohm can ether work with you or against you
[10:55:26] <pfred1> but that is how you parallel current sources
[10:56:29] <Tom_itx> they must be rather low resistance
[10:56:33] <pfred1> yup
[10:56:43] <pfred1> but a little is all you need
[10:56:59] <pfred1> as long as the two littles together even out any difference
[10:58:14] <pfred1> it is kind of like a current bridge
[10:58:57] <pfred1> Tom_itx niw if your PSU blows up in your face yo ucan't say no one told you
[10:59:54] <Tom_itx> i think smps works a bit different than a linear supply
[10:59:57] <pfred1> personally I'd have made it one xformer for each driver and not paralleled them
[11:00:07] <Tom_itx> i started out to do that
[11:00:28] <pfred1> just make the grounds common
[11:01:00] <pfred1> I mean you're multiplying all the parts anyways
[11:01:29] <pfred1> so the low parts count argument doesn't apply
[11:17:24] <Tom_itx> pfred1 don't your resistors need to be able to carry the full supply load?
[11:17:37] <pfred1> Tom_itx yes
[11:17:45] <pfred1> but they share it
[11:18:12] <Tom_itx> resistance is heat and heat is wasted energy
[11:18:34] <Tom_itx> those must be in the .x ohm range
[11:19:49] <pfred1> yeah .1 IIRC
[11:20:32] <pfred1> you have to stop current from flowing from one current source to another
[11:20:43] <pfred1> well resist it
[11:23:48] <pfred1> Tom_itx the term is load balancing resistors
[11:24:03] <Tom_itx> i know
[11:24:57] <r00t4rd3d> what other apps/programs should I install on my linuxcnc machine
[11:25:48] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d that is vague LinuxCNC comes wiht all it needs to do what it does I don't know what else you want to do
[11:26:18] <Tom_itx> xchat
[11:26:31] <pfred1> if you say I want to do X what do I need to install to do it on my LinuxCNC machine I might know
[11:27:25] <pfred1> Tom_itx irssi!
[11:28:13] <pfred1> IRC is text all it needs is a text client
[11:28:26] <pfred1> GUI does nothing for IRC
[11:28:57] <r00t4rd3d> i was just wondering if there were other useful programs for cnc
[11:29:06] <pfred1> blender
[11:29:25] <pfred1> but you need an IQ of about 200 to figure out how it works
[11:29:37] <r00t4rd3d> I use blender already
[11:29:46] <pfred1> then you're smarter than I am
[11:29:50] <Tom_itx> ngcgui
[11:30:16] <pfred1> last time i ran blender i couldn't even get it to render an image for me
[11:30:22] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[11:30:43] <r00t4rd3d> takes a while just to learn how to navigate the view spaces
[11:30:56] <pfred1> most of the tutorials out there are for an UI that I didn't even have
[11:31:12] <pfred1> I was like that's not what it looks like here!
[11:31:46] <pfred1> most of them seem to be video tutorials too
[11:33:35] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d it looked to me like it'd take a lot longer than I am willing to invest in order to learn how to do much with blender at all
[11:34:40] <pfred1> all CAD software I've ever tried is about the same in my estimation
[11:35:22] <pfred1> freecad is still worthless because last time I checked it still does not support the imperial measurement system
[11:36:23] <pfred1> I highly doubt it ever will too
[11:40:30] <pfred1> wow Austin Powers is real! http://www.gadgetbox.msnbc.msn.com/technology/gadgetbox/aquatic-stunt-frickin-sharks-frickin-laser-beams-753604
[11:42:18] <pfred1> I donno i bet that shark thinks it is the coolest fish in the ocean
[12:00:50] <JT-Shop-2> Tom_itx: X-Chat is still open-source and licensed under GPL. So there are a few free non-official builds
[12:23:51] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around
[12:29:17] <DJ9DJ> hi there
[12:29:22] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:30:20] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: location here DL5IAH Jn39UF
[13:14:43] <WillenCMD> Does anyone know what is the optimal frequency to drive a bldc servo?
[13:15:36] <WillenCMD> does it very with the amplitude? or does it stay one frequency and only the amplitude is adjusted?
[13:24:14] <IchGuckLive> its more what your hardware and driver can sync
[13:26:03] <IchGuckLive> witch one isit BLCD 4x 5x 6x
[13:27:01] <WillenCMD> i dont't follow?
[13:27:08] <WillenCMD> motor poles?
[13:27:17] <pfred1> I'm just here to check out a new terminal font
[13:27:37] <IchGuckLive> the blcd motor number ?
[13:27:48] <IchGuckLive> BLDC ofcause
[13:28:01] * pfred1 was thinking CD-ROM ...
[13:30:38] <pfred1> wow i was just at this website yesterday and it is already gone! http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/subpixel.php
[13:30:43] <WillenCMD> <http://www.kelinginc.com/KL34BLS_125.pdf?
[13:30:52] <WillenCMD> thats the motor
[13:31:06] <WillenCMD> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FS/FSBB20CH60C.pdf
[13:31:11] <pfred1> DJ is the resident BLDC motor expert here I think
[13:31:19] <WillenCMD> i already messaged him
[13:31:26] <WillenCMD> he must be away
[13:32:05] <DJ9DJ> huh? ;)
[13:32:32] <pfred1> DJ9DJ djdelorie
[13:32:44] <DJ9DJ> hehe
[13:33:02] <WillenCMD> two user names?
[13:33:10] <pfred1> two DJs
[13:33:25] <WillenCMD> i messaged djdelorie
[13:33:40] <pfred1> he usually is in late
[13:33:44] <WillenCMD> he has already done something close to what im trying to do.
[13:34:20] <pfred1> this font ain't too bad
[13:34:54] * pfred1 is running urxvt -rv -fn "-gnu-unifont-medium-r-normal--16-160-75-75-c-80-iso10646-1"
[13:35:14] <pfred1> I need someone to speak arabic or mandarin
[13:36:54] <pfred1> you know some gobbly goop like this 㓥㓦㓧 ꂕꂖꂗ ノハバ खगघ
[13:38:23] <djdelorie> I what who?
[13:38:46] <pfred1> djdelorie hey there you are someone had a BLDC question
[13:38:49] <DJ9DJ> hihi
[13:39:04] <cpresser> pfred1: this is japanese: ノハバ
[13:39:07] <IchGuckLive> WillenCMD: the max is 50k pulses per second to the motor
[13:39:16] <pfred1> cpresser yes I suppose it is
[13:39:42] <djdelorie> BLDC drive frequency, or any PWM frequency, is a tradeoff between smoothness of control (faster and more precise is better) and power efficiency (slower is better).
[13:39:43] <IchGuckLive> nanaotec on same config 48V 0.117Nm/A
[13:40:04] <djdelorie> Faster PWM may also limit the PWM resolution, too, as there's often an upper limit to clock speed
[13:40:43] <djdelorie> other than that, I haven't seen any rules of thumb for what khz to run at. Usually you want it to be above human hearing range, so 15kHz or more
[13:40:56] <cpresser> pfred1: it says "no-ha-ba". the first 3 signs may be japanese or chinese, cant tell for sure since i am not that much into kanjis. but you can join #nihongo and ask :D
[13:40:59] <pfred1> when I made my stepper motor drivers I monkeyed with the PWM width
[13:41:00] <IchGuckLive> WillenCMD: nanotec hase waveforms for better performences
[13:41:56] <pfred1> cpresser yeah me no haba either but I like to be able to see the characters
[13:42:14] <djdelorie> As for choosing voltages and frequencies for a specific BLDC motor, you could go with the same 32*sqrt(mH) that steppers use
[13:42:30] <djdelorie> and set the frequency at whatever your driver will support
[13:43:15] <djdelorie> mine run at 20 kHz because that's the most the driver supports, but that leaves me with only 4000 PWM "steps"
[13:44:50] <WillenCMD> the bridge's max switching frequency is 20khz
[13:45:30] <djdelorie> that chip is very much like mine
[13:45:42] <djdelorie> I run mine right at 20 kHz
[13:45:51] <pfred1> nice round number
[13:46:09] <djdelorie> and you can use 50 nS for the math in the innermost control loop :-)
[13:46:22] <pfred1> maybe you can
[13:46:57] <pfred1> I can't even decide anymore if I like my fonts how they are now or not
[13:47:28] * pfred1 has been running X Window for so long he can't even remember what nice font rendering looks like!
[13:47:29] <ReadError> any solidworks users here?
[13:48:31] <pfred1> I'm convinced that when the Debian devs want anti-aliasing they just smoke another joint now
[13:48:48] <pfred1> looks fuzzy to me man!
[13:49:35] <jackc> ReadError: ya
[13:50:52] <ReadError> jackc
[13:50:56] <ReadError> i modeled a part
[13:51:05] <ReadError> but its on the wrong axis
[13:51:07] <jackc> cool story
[13:51:10] <jackc> oh
[13:51:11] <jackc> sucks
[13:51:12] <ReadError> i saw 'top' and assumed it was the top view
[13:51:18] <ReadError> i need to flip everything ;/
[13:51:26] <jackc> why?
[13:51:41] <ReadError> because when im going to model it
[13:51:41] <rob_h> there is a rotate function for solidbodys
[13:51:41] <ReadError> oh there is?
[13:51:57] <jackc> there is somewhere, but CAM packages will let you rotate it also for various machines
[13:51:57] <rob_h> i think its called move.. but u can rotate with the same function too
[13:52:24] <rob_h> prob not on tool bar. look in the menu you will find it
[13:52:43] <rob_h> but as jackc says, if u wanna cam it, most let you define the Z top of model
[13:53:12] <rob_h> other wise ud have rotate it all the time to machine multi setups , or multiaxis parts
[13:53:12] <ReadError> yea, ide like to learn how to do it
[13:53:21] <ReadError> its a bit strange how 'top' is really the side view
[13:54:22] <pfred1> ReadError I'm convinced no one that has ever written a CAD program knows how to actually draw
[13:54:40] <pfred1> the two skills might be mutually incompatible
[13:54:44] <jackc> i still find solidworks to be the easiest to get real work done
[13:54:51] <rob_h> lol and iv rarly seen well drawn models in all the years too
[13:54:51] <ReadError> solid works other wise is very intuitive IMO
[13:55:06] <ReadError> much easier than the libre, freecad, autocad
[13:55:55] <pfred1> the last time i looked at freecad it seemed like a feudal german fiefdom to me
[13:56:14] <pfred1> ve vill not support imperial measurements!
[14:29:29] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3lWKGQuQoc
[14:30:48] <pfred1> skunkworks__ I like the hose clamp very stylish
[14:31:47] <skunkworks__> what ever it takes
[14:32:32] <pfred1> oh man they burned that blue foam? that stuff is lethal!
[14:33:25] <pfred1> ought oh Walt Disney is going to be phoning them from beyond the grave too
[14:33:43] <pfred1> don't ever knock off Disney images!
[14:34:31] <cradek> that's great! I wonder what branch they're using.
[14:34:38] <pfred1> every time Mickey is about to enter the public domain copyright laws gets rewriten it is called the Mickey effect
[14:43:23] * djdelorie scored a whole tray of surplus motorized slide controls. 0.09 oz-in servos! :-)
[14:44:39] * archivist grmbls
[14:45:07] * jthornton sets off to set off the cannon
[14:45:10] <pfred1> djdelorie one step closer to your ironman suit goal?
[14:45:31] <djdelorie> tin man, with these servos
[14:45:41] <pfred1> well they can be for the fingers
[14:46:07] <pfred1> crushes aluminum foil
[14:47:25] <djdelorie> the motors are strong enough to move the sliders and not much more than that
[14:47:30] <djdelorie> but they're fun to play with :-)
[14:47:37] <pfred1> heh
[14:48:04] <pfred1> what are they for a laser setup to move mirrors or something?
[14:48:16] <pfred1> tiny mirrors
[14:48:17] <djdelorie> audio mixing console
[14:48:23] <pfred1> oh yeah to move the pots
[14:48:28] <pfred1> I'
[14:48:34] <pfred1> I've seen those
[14:48:36] <djdelorie> these *are* those pots, with motors
[14:48:42] <pfred1> sweet
[14:48:47] <pfred1> now you can really be a DJ
[14:49:17] <djdelorie> I got five free DVD players to take apart too, so five steppers, five BLDC motors, and five sets of linear rails.
[14:49:31] <djdelorie> of course, it's got a 2 inch working range... :-P
[14:49:34] <pfred1> I saw some monster CD changers at a flea market yesterday
[14:49:44] <pfred1> I kinda felt sorry for the saps selling them
[14:51:19] <pfred1> I passed on an old cast iron hand miter box I felt bad about it
[14:51:33] <pfred1> I couldn't think of where I'd put it in my garage
[14:52:39] <pfred1> I should have bought it
[14:53:05] <archivist> build another shed
[14:53:29] <pfred1> archivist just as soon as you find the cure for lime disease
[14:53:52] <pfred1> I hate going back there
[14:54:00] <archivist> you dont have to use wood!
[14:54:04] <pfred1> lyme whatever it is
[14:55:20] <pfred1> what I worry about is the bugs in the woods
[14:55:59] <archivist> the side for my next shed will be pvc
[14:56:12] <archivist> sides
[14:56:24] <JT-Shop-2> mice love to chew pvc over here
[14:57:03] <pfred1> gawd
[14:57:13] <pfred1> I remember the hanta virus scare
[14:57:35] <archivist> seen the little bastard eating some plastics, not heard of them feeding on the window/door frame material
[14:59:18] <archivist> nice easy run of the engine today, the breakdown...the charity box lock
[15:04:28] <JT-Shop-2> I'd bet you had some tools to open that
[15:05:15] <archivist> JT-Shop-2, visitor knocked it over, we got into it ok but the bolt broke off
[15:05:43] <archivist> Ive just fixed it ready for tomorrow
[15:12:22] <JT-Shop-2> archivist: looks like this steam engine kit is more of a puzzle on how to hold the parts to machine them than anything else
[15:13:34] <Tecan> if you put a drop of liquor on a scorpion it will instantly go mad and sting itself to death.
[15:13:59] <archivist> JT-Shop-2, yes part holding is often the best bit
[15:14:28] <archivist> for various values of best
[15:15:32] <pfred1> Tecan if you beat them with a broom you get to drink the booze yourself
[15:17:36] <archivist> JT-Shop-2, worth reading some of the construction series in mags like Model Engineer for work holding clues
[15:20:20] <JT-Shop-2> archivist: thanks for the tip
[15:22:17] <archivist> JT-Shop-2, except they are often struggling with the wrong size/type of machine
[15:24:45] <pfred1> big machines can do small work but small machines can struggle doing big work
[15:26:15] <archivist> I find the machine itself gets in the way of seeing the item Im working on
[15:28:31] <pfred1> archivist the collet I have for my mill is like that
[15:28:44] <pfred1> just means I need a different collet though
[15:31:25] <alex4nder> hey
[15:58:15] <ReadError> hey alex4nder
[15:58:21] <ReadError> any pics of your coolant setup?
[16:05:37] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:09:22] <alex4nder> ReadError: not yet, I needed to return the pump, because the fittings to it sucked
[16:09:29] <alex4nder> I'll post up a video of the filter though.
[17:08:34] <skunkworks> cradek: http://bcove.me/xs5xlrfo
[17:08:50] <skunkworks> Love that group
[17:35:31] <alex4nder> haha
[17:35:40] <alex4nder> the new mill controller is alive!
[17:44:22] <pfred1> I really missed my calling in life I could have been a computer breaker
[17:46:30] <alex4nder> it could be
[17:46:33] <alex4nder> join someone's QA department.
[17:48:01] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/xAlCc.gif
[17:48:12] <pfred1> yeah it'd be like a dream to wreck stuff then say OK here it is figure it out
[17:48:26] <Tecan> http://i.minus.com/iPjFCSyvbjw7J.gif
[17:48:45] <alex4nder> pfred1: well a good QA person can recreate the problem on a whim, and document the issue.
[17:49:19] <pfred1> alex4nder give me a little time and I'll create some kind of a problem I always do
[17:49:31] <SolarNRG> evening
[17:49:45] <alex4nder> pfred1: so a QA career could be yours
[17:56:12] <pfred1> I just got done fixing my alsamixer which I managed to totally bork up somehow
[17:59:50] <r00t4rd3d> heh
[18:00:02] <r00t4rd3d> very problematic software that is
[18:00:30] <pfred1> I can break anything more complicated than hello world
[18:00:38] <r00t4rd3d> sure
[18:00:53] <r00t4rd3d> try goodbye world
[18:01:14] <pfred1> at least it got me off my font kick for a little while
[18:04:45] <pfred1> it takes me so long to get into the acceptance stage with PCs I swear
[18:36:04] * robin_sz stretches
[18:45:51] <skunkworks__> logger[psha]:
[18:45:51] <logger[psha]> skunkworks__: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-05-06.html
[18:53:54] <ReadError> TOOLPATH Y U SO HARD TO MAKE
[19:09:00] <gravity_> Hello everyone, I have a quick question. I just set up my soft limits and hard limits (switches). They all seem to work well, however when I do a worst case scenario test of the machine hitting the hard limits, it goes into estop like it should. However, I do not know how to move it after it does that. I've been disconnecting power and manually moving it an inch or so.
[19:09:20] <gravity_> Is there a way so that when I hit max limit X I will still be able to travel in the negative X direction? Or will the hard stops do just that, hard stop it?/
[20:16:47] <alex4nder> sick
[20:16:52] <alex4nder> so the new mill control machine works
[20:17:08] <alex4nder> I couldn't hit 100 IPM without losing steps on X and Y.. but I got to 75 IPM with nice accel.
[20:18:06] <ReadError> what did you do different? new mobo?
[20:18:23] <alex4nder> yah, whole new machine
[20:18:44] <alex4nder> I devoted one core to RTAI
[20:19:29] <ReadError> i might need to add some heatsinks to the g540
[20:19:33] <ReadError> it gets pretty warm
[20:19:51] <ReadError> ill have air going over it in my control box though
[20:27:46] <alex4nder> ReadError: with your larger steppers, what velocity/accel settings have you gotten up to on Z?
[20:28:12] <ReadError> i got it capped in the config, let me check
[20:28:53] <ReadError> MAX_VELOCITY = 0.95
[20:28:53] <ReadError> MAX_ACCELERATION = 30.0
[20:28:53] <ReadError> STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 37.5
[20:31:47] <alex4nder> on Z that's great.
[20:56:05] <ReadError> yea i have no idea what ranges to use really
[20:56:34] <ReadError> wish toolpath generation was easier ;/
[20:56:40] <alex4nder> yes
[20:56:53] <ReadError> pycam wont do peck drilling
[20:56:57] <ReadError> which is the real deal breaker
[20:57:07] <alex4nder> yah, but that is so easy to add afterwards
[20:57:07] <ReadError> i got the outside and middle done nice, but the holes
[20:57:17] <ReadError> i can alway create another job to just drill
[20:57:25] <alex4nder> I'd think that would be the least of your worries.
[20:57:31] <ReadError> true
[20:57:37] <alex4nder> the material removal strategy is what bugs me
[20:57:41] <ReadError> i just want a viable method i can repeat for other stuff
[20:57:52] <alex4nder> all of the free/cheap CAM strategies make your mill sound like it's foodprocessing rocks.
[20:58:13] <ReadError> i wish they had a co-op box
[20:58:18] <ReadError> where you donated some money
[20:58:22] <ReadError> RDP in, do your jobs
[20:58:36] <ReadError> i can get a box from work
[20:58:40] <ReadError> but the software is whats kille4r
[20:58:43] <ReadError> killer*
[20:58:59] <ReadError> we have 10gigE
[20:59:53] <alex4nder> it seems like the big 'problem' with CAM is that the easy stuff is easy, and the moment you get away from butt-simple, it gets really hard to do well.
[21:00:38] <ReadError> or the software that does it nice, you get it how you want then they say ohai, pay us money for the full version
[21:00:44] <ReadError> cut2d did what i needed
[21:00:52] <ReadError> but i cant find a copy that lets me actually save
[21:01:04] <alex4nder> I mean in general as far as implementing functionality.
[21:01:30] <alex4nder> because I don't want to use anyone else's software unless it's really good, and I haven't seen any that is good that costs less than my car.
[21:01:52] <alex4nder> maybe sprutcam? but then you're locked into running windows
[21:03:11] <ReadError> alex4nder, I run vmware esxi
[21:03:19] <ReadError> im never locked in ;)
[21:03:23] <alex4nder> we had this conversation
[21:03:26] <alex4nder> fuck virtual machines
[21:03:29] <ReadError> 2600K w/ 16GB ram
[21:03:36] <ReadError> runs solid works like a CHAMP too
[21:03:44] <ReadError> over gigabit, zero latency
[21:04:05] <alex4nder> you're locked into windows, you just get to look at it through a window
[21:05:20] <alex4nder> ssi_: where's your CAM software, son?
[21:06:04] <ReadError> ssi_is coding some too?
[21:21:33] <alex4nder> ReadError: we talked a bit about it, I showed him some of the stuff I did
[21:23:28] <alex4nder> ReadError: i just grabbed video of the filter, basin, and some of the PS3 controller.
[21:23:52] * alex4nder processes them for YouTube.
[21:40:17] <alex4nder> ReadError: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gODZJ_gBBA
[21:41:59] <ReadError> does the coolant have something in that prevents the machine from rusting?
[21:42:04] <ReadError> mostly oil?
[21:42:12] <alex4nder> yup
[21:42:17] <alex4nder> or rust inhibitors
[21:47:18] <alex4nder> ReadError: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnjozIOnLvI
[21:48:58] <ReadError> how much did the basin coast?
[21:49:10] <ReadError> for the materials
[21:49:44] <alex4nder> the concrete was cheap.. like $15?
[21:49:50] <ReadError> oh nice
[22:03:21] <ReadError> how much for the pump+filter+locline?
[22:03:58] <ReadError> on the fly code generation would be nice
[22:04:22] <ReadError> where if i just want to cut a cicle
[22:04:23] <ReadError> it does
[22:04:52] <ReadError> specify radius, depth of cut, tool offset
[22:07:37] <alex4nder> ReadError: that's going to be another $150-$200 once everything is the way I want it.
[22:09:58] <alex4nder> you could use a shithouse fountain pump, but they're magnetic drive usually.
[22:10:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-2: jthornton You alive?
[22:49:16] <Tecan> neat vid alex4nder :)