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[00:15:15] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:19:04] <alex4nder> hey
[02:26:32] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:28:32] <alex4nder> what's going on?
[08:32:46] <jdhNC> anyone used Ethernet/IP with linux?
[08:35:09] <Valen> hrm?
[08:37:24] <jdhNC> should I speak slower? :)
[08:37:56] <archivist> vvveeerrryyy sssllloooowwwwlllyyyy
[08:38:36] <Valen> ok then
[08:38:39] <Valen> yes
[08:39:33] <archivist> in irc it is recommended to ask the real question, not questions about have we done x, should all 102 reply no if not
[08:43:31] <Valen> i've got a bonding, bridging vlan setup right here
[08:44:15] <Valen> and I think i'll stick some kind of vswitch in there too
[08:44:22] <Valen> but later
[08:44:45] <jdhNC> The real question is: Has anyone communicated with an Ethernet/IP device from LINUX.
[08:45:13] <Valen> uhhh, anybody who has used xchat or firefox on their EMC machine i guess?
[08:45:32] <Valen> most of the internet is ethernet/ip
[08:45:34] <archivist> er me Im browsing on a linux box
[08:45:46] <jdhNC> ahhh.
[08:45:48] <Valen> well at least at some point along its trip
[08:45:55] <archivist> and have real wire TM out the rear of the box
[08:46:12] <jdhNC> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EtherNet/IP
[08:46:48] <Valen> to be fair, thats a really dumb name
[08:47:13] <archivist> naming a subset the same as the outer is the dumbest of dumb
[08:48:38] <jdhNC> it seems to be dumb all around
[08:49:09] <jdhNC> it makes it really hard to search for it.
[08:49:48] <Valen> thats one of the main reasons we are calling it dumb
[08:50:10] <jdhNC> but, it's not the same, IP is Industrial Protocol! That makes it all better!
[08:57:47] * Valen gives the marketing person who thaught that up a black eye
[09:00:19] <Valen> jdhNC:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opener/ perhaps?
[09:03:45] <jdhNC> I have a xerox copier/printer here, it lists "IP/Ethernet"
[09:03:53] <jdhNC> at least that one is real.
[09:05:46] <jdhNC> Valen: nice, thanks!
[10:06:17] <Jymmmm> Ok, Besides ControlNet and DeviceNet, EtherNet/IP uses UDP and TCP over Ethernet, but the IP stands for Industrial Protocol, not Internet Protocol. No wonder someone wrote a virus/exploit for it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EtherNet/IP#Security
[10:11:07] <JT-Shop> cutting cast iron with a 6" carbide insert fly cutter at 400 RPM what kind of feed per tooth is usual?
[10:12:10] <Jymmmm> JT-Shop: Doing your brakes huh?
[10:12:22] <JT-Shop> steam engine base
[10:12:42] <JT-Shop> I take my brakes to a brake expert when that is needed
[10:13:00] <jdhNC> easier to just get a new vehicle when it needs brakes.
[10:13:03] <Jymmmm> oh, um, I didn't hear no BOOOOOOOoooom yet!
[10:14:23] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: You don't live on a palm tree, so shut da hell up! =)
[10:14:58] * jdhNC ponders the meaning of that.
[10:15:11] <Jymmmm> jdhNC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Islands
[10:15:18] <JT-Shop> jdhNC: that will only make your head hurt
[10:16:29] <Jymmmm> It's the first place in the world where they have a Gold Bullion Vending machine as they're so stinking rich.
[10:16:33] <jdhNC> I don't see the connection?
[10:16:44] <jdhNC> oh, because they spend money wastefully?
[10:16:58] <jdhNC> I got 130k out of my last set of brakes/vehicle
[10:18:40] <Jymmmm> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20005010-1.html
[10:23:02] <Jymmmm> I wish they had those in my area
[10:25:09] <jdhNC> build one!
[10:25:28] <Jymmmm> That aint the problem =)
[10:27:55] <archivist> JT-Shop, getting under the skin quickly is important to save tool life
[10:28:28] <archivist> hope its a good casting with no chills :)
[10:29:35] <JT-Shop> so a depth of cut of 0.015" sound right?
[10:30:10] <archivist> I think so
[10:30:39] <archivist> depending on casting size etc
[10:31:03] <JT-Shop> I'm taking 0.005" per tooth (only one) for FPT
[10:31:16] <archivist> and will the vibration due to it being a fly be more than x
[10:31:53] <JT-Shop> this is a balanced fly cutter
[10:32:06] <archivist> but cast sounds luverly when its right :)
[11:06:39] <JT-Shop> well lets see the power cord on the Z servo looks like it has been pulled out about 1/2" from the cord grip, the cover is fastened with electrical tape... could there be some shoddy workmanship in there?
[11:07:27] <Jymmmm> doesn't sound like it to me.
[11:17:34] <alex4nder> gents
[11:21:38] <JT-Shop> lo que pasa
[11:22:21] <ReadError> hey alex4nder
[11:22:30] <ReadError> what was that depth measuring tool you recommended?
[11:22:44] <ReadError> i been using the 1-2-3 block and guessing how much it hangs over
[11:23:40] <Jymmmm> the tail end of dial calipers?
[11:31:36] <cradek> the tail end of dial calipers stuck through a hole in a 123 block makes an passable depth micrometer substitute. remember to subtract the 1" of course.
[11:32:58] <alex4nder> ReadError: what're you trying to do?
[11:34:55] <archivist> I have a Starrett but almost never use it, guessing stick rules
[11:37:47] <Tom_L> dust it off and put it to use
[11:38:22] <archivist> usually a depth mike is too big for me
[11:38:57] <Tom_itx> i have one too but seldom use it either
[11:40:06] <archivist> you get 6" of measurement with a vernier with no faffing about changing rods
[12:12:48] <IchGuckLive> hi all where ever you are
[12:19:13] <ReadError> alex4nder: i want to home my Z
[12:19:29] <ReadError> and be able to set the depth of a cut
[12:19:51] <ReadError> but i dont want to tear up my bit against the steal block
[12:20:24] <jthornton> I use the dowel pin method and never hurt my tools
[12:21:20] <IchGuckLive> dowel pin is good
[13:18:41] <alex4nder> ReadError: you mean a reference to set Z height of tools during tool changes?
http://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/pro-touch-off-gage.html
[13:26:30] <IchGuckLive> i leav today i came a littel closer to the Airfoil G-code projekt and it will be good for all combination of profiles on a XYUV mashine i will overcome all problems till later !
[14:49:19] <DJ9DJ> namd
[15:26:05] <gene__> I just ran the new devel 2.6.0, problem with mdi disabling entry till the command being executed is still there, it hits the mill too.
[15:26:39] <gene__> I'll turn the debugging up what to make a log file?
[15:26:50] <gene__> I'll turn the debugging up to what to make a log file?
[15:28:27] <jdhNC> <mhaberler> edit ini file and set DEBUG=0x7FFFFFFF - it should be there, just
[15:30:38] <gene__> Ok
[15:37:09] <gene__> ok, started it, ran a couple move A commands & shut down. Where do you want the log?
[15:39:59] <skunkworks__> gene__: what is the issue>
[15:40:01] <skunkworks__> ?
[15:41:56] <gene__> its ghosting out the whole mdi screen while the currently issued command is executing. So you can't fill up the buffer and keep the machine moving.
[15:45:53] <Aero-Tec> hello
[15:46:11] <Aero-Tec> I am trying to get emc to run on my lathe
[15:46:51] <Aero-Tec> running mach now but hate it with a passion but have not got onto how to set up emc
[15:47:09] <Aero-Tec> any help?
[15:47:18] <andypugh> Is it a stepper machine? (I assume so, if youa re using Mach)
[15:47:31] <andypugh> How far have you got?
[15:47:33] <Aero-Tec> I have servero with gecko drivers
[15:47:48] <Aero-Tec> so it looks like a stepper unit to the computer
[15:47:48] <andypugh> OK, so effectively a stepper machine then
[15:47:54] <Aero-Tec> step and dir
[15:48:03] <andypugh> Do you have LinuxCNC installed?
[15:48:19] <Aero-Tec> yes, but it would be a older one
[15:48:35] <Aero-Tec> need to update to the new one it looks like
[15:48:38] <andypugh> That's OK, you can upgrade later, if you want to.
[15:49:15] <Aero-Tec> PP for output
[15:49:22] <andypugh> You probably need to start with Stepconf. Do you have a "CNC" entry in the leftmost-menu items?
[15:49:26] <Aero-Tec> no fancy cards yet
[15:49:50] <andypugh> P-port is probably enough for a 2-axis lathe.
[15:50:03] <Aero-Tec> I can start EMC
[15:50:13] <djdelorie> getting linuxcnc working "at all" with steppers is easy. Then you spend all your time tweaking it, buying better cards, learning new tricks, etc...
[15:50:31] <andypugh> Are you starting it from the command line, or the menu?
[15:50:33] <Aero-Tec> cool
[15:50:40] <Aero-Tec> I just need it to run
[15:51:10] <djdelorie> set the stepper speed low, hook up the parallel port to your gecko, and just try stuff with the lathe spindle off. "Turning air"
[15:51:13] <Aero-Tec> I tried the sim lathe from the startup screen
[15:51:20] <Aero-Tec> but that is not working
[15:51:55] <Aero-Tec> I need to program the pins and port address first, right?
[15:52:22] <Aero-Tec> manu
[15:52:23] <djdelorie> When I did mine, I ran through stepconf and wrote down what I picked for each pin, so I could wire it up correctly. The gecko might have a pre-determined pin-function mapping though
[15:52:27] <Aero-Tec> menu
[15:53:09] <djdelorie> so if your gecko has a DB25 on it, the gecko manual should tell you what each PP pin is for. GIve that info to stepconf
[15:53:17] <Aero-Tec> andypugh: menu
[15:53:20] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: There is a utility called Stepconf that will do all the configuration
[15:53:34] <andypugh> You should see it in the same menu as EMC2
[15:53:47] <Aero-Tec> ok
[15:54:03] <Aero-Tec> as for the port I wired it myself
[15:54:04] <andypugh> (But, if you have a very old version of EMC2 then you might have to type "stepfconf" at the terminal prompt instead
[15:54:20] <Aero-Tec> I need to write down the pins
[15:54:33] <andypugh> That starts a wizard that walks you through the process, including setting up the pins.
[15:54:47] <andypugh> Yeah, not down stepper scales and pin assignments from Mach
[15:55:00] <skunkworks__> gene__: I think that must have been a change between 2.5 and master.. I don't think it was a bug.. you might want to post it on the list...
[15:55:18] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[15:55:42] <skunkworks__> I just tried 2.5 and it allows you to keep entering mdi while executing. in master - you cannot (the mdi line grays)
[15:57:43] <andypugh> Any questions, feel free to ask.
[15:58:36] <Connor> okay, I need a freaking DPDT relay that can handle 90VDC on the contacts.. 5v coil preferable.
[15:59:05] <djdelorie> reversing the motor?
[15:59:11] <Connor> Yup
[15:59:19] <djdelorie> have you tried searching for an H-bridge with those specs?
[15:59:37] <Connor> Nope. :)
[15:59:50] <djdelorie> might have more luck
[16:00:38] <djdelorie> or replace the driver with a reversible one :-)
[16:01:08] <andypugh> Incidentally, a bridge rectifier can be a useful way to protect a motor reversal relay from the motor.
[16:01:31] <Connor> andypugh: Explain ?
[16:01:54] <andypugh> Wire the motor to the AC teminals, and the DC terminals to the correct poer supply leads, and the back-EMF is taken back to the battery, not through relay contact arcs.
[16:02:38] <Connor> Hmm.
[16:02:45] <andypugh> (well, PSU, not battery. My use for it was a Robotwars robot)
[16:03:04] <Connor> I'm thinking about a breaking relay too..
[16:03:06] <Loetmichel> andypugh: a contactor for reverse in a robot?
[16:03:18] <Loetmichel> wouldnt that be a little slow?
[16:03:32] <andypugh> It was actually a 2-pole relay to turn on and off a big whirling disc.
[16:03:36] <Loetmichel> i would use a full h-bridge
[16:03:54] <Loetmichel> ah, not the drive motors
[16:04:08] <andypugh> No, they were through commercial H-bridges.
[16:04:08] <Loetmichel> ok, but still
[16:04:31] <Jymmmm> andypugh: o the bemf is what causes the arcing in the contacts?
[16:04:36] <Jymmmm> so,
[16:04:40] <Loetmichel> at this currents there contacts of EVERY kind have a short life
[16:04:57] <andypugh> The H-bridges we used were £150 each. The peak current draw of the robot was around 250A
[16:06:00] <andypugh> (In fact, the motor drives had DPDT relays on the board anyway, for reversal). This was back when Robotwars was on the TV, probably 15 years ago.
[16:06:12] <Jymmmm> andypugh: So, the bemf is what causes the arcing in the contacts?
[16:07:16] <andypugh> Jymmmm: Yes. That is what creates the high voltage to create the arc.
[16:07:22] <Jymmmm> andypugh: and where does the relay sit in the bridge motor thingy?
[16:07:50] <Jymmmm> before the bridge?
[16:08:15] <andypugh> If the relay has 4 terminals, then the AC terminals go on the motor side, and the DC terminals on the Power side
[16:08:49] <Jymmmm> 4PST ?
[16:09:52] <Jymmmm> I scared him off! *sigh* lol
[16:16:35] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:17:19] <DJ9DJ> gn9 Jymmmm ;)
[17:53:46] <r00t4rd3d> when doing the latency test what do I want to look at? Max Jitter?
[17:54:47] <pfred1> yes
[17:55:32] <r00t4rd3d> 7662 , 10661 are the 2 numbers
[17:55:38] <r00t4rd3d> are those bad?
[17:56:13] <pfred1> no
[17:56:20] <pgf> r00t4rd3d: see
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
[17:57:03] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d are you using the parallel port with steppers?
[17:57:13] <r00t4rd3d> gonna be yeah
[17:57:18] <pfred1> you'll be fine
[17:57:33] <r00t4rd3d> I just ran glxgears and my numbers went to 100,000 and 70,000
[17:57:41] <pfred1> oh that isn't good
[17:57:56] <pfred1> you won't be using axis
[17:58:26] <pfred1> what kind of a video card do you have?
[17:58:31] <r00t4rd3d> onboard :)
[17:58:38] <pfred1> it is still some kind
[17:58:45] <pfred1> intel ati nvidia
[17:58:59] <r00t4rd3d> via
[17:59:12] <pfred1> can you install a card?
[17:59:15] <pgf> if you have any old plug-in cards, try those. i found it made a huge difference.
[17:59:37] <r00t4rd3d> Integrated VIA UniChrome™ AGP graphics with MPEG-2 decoding acceleration
[17:59:43] <pfred1> rtai doesn't seem to like every kind of video card ever made
[18:00:56] <pfred1> 70-100K is unusable
[18:02:14] <r00t4rd3d> i have a pci card I can try
[18:02:29] <pfred1> no agp slot?
[18:03:07] <pfred1> well try the pci card who knows
[18:03:40] * pfred1 still has some isa video cards kicking around ...
[18:03:56] <pfred1> hercules baby yeah!
[18:04:16] <r00t4rd3d> mini itx board
[18:04:29] <r00t4rd3d> only 1 pci slot
[18:04:36] <pfred1> bummer its onboard video sux so bad
[18:04:44] <r00t4rd3d> oh im aware
[18:05:10] <pfred1> well you can still use another front end other than axis
[18:05:20] <pfred1> axis is GL though
[18:05:38] <pfred1> it is an option i have to do right now
[18:09:22] <andypugh> gene__: The good news is we know roughly why the MDI doesn't queue any more. The bad news is that the fact it did was due to a bug. Reintroducing the bug to get the queue behaviour back seems, well, wrong.
[18:18:24] <Aero-Tec> wow
[18:18:38] <Aero-Tec> I have never had that lathe moving so fast
[18:18:56] <Aero-Tec> EMC rocks
[18:19:37] <pfred1> in the end it is all about raw performance
[18:19:47] <Aero-Tec> so now I am in the spindle setup part
[18:19:51] <skunkworks__> Aero-Tec: videos!
[18:19:51] <Aero-Tec> what now?
[18:20:07] <Aero-Tec> I just have the index for now
[18:20:22] <Aero-Tec> will add the other encoderlater
[18:21:28] <Aero-Tec> so how do I set up the spindle for just one index encoder on the spindle?
[18:21:45] <Aero-Tec> you want video of it?
[18:22:03] <pfred1> sure
[18:22:28] <Aero-Tec> can do but you guys must have seen a gazillion vids of things moving fast
[18:22:32] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: You might have to get a bit manual in the HAL file.
[18:23:30] <Aero-Tec> one other thing, wanted to do a update, been over 300 days since the last update
[18:23:32] <andypugh> If you can't see an option for single-pulse spindle then just enter a scale of 1, then edit the HAL file to set counter-mode to true.
[18:23:54] <Aero-Tec> but over 300 days later I do not know my password to do the updates
[18:24:05] <pfred1> andypugh could you repeat that in english? :)
[18:24:06] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Updating became a little more complicated when beastly lawyers made us change the name of the software.
[18:24:34] <Aero-Tec> whats it called now?
[18:24:39] <Aero-Tec> was EMC@
[18:24:42] <Aero-Tec> oops
[18:24:47] <Aero-Tec> EMC2
[18:24:47] <pfred1> LinuxCNC
[18:25:15] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.5
[18:25:25] <Aero-Tec> ok so how do I update and how do I reset the possaord?
[18:25:39] <pfred1> it is amazing how many letter combinations are registered trademarks these days
[18:25:43] <Aero-Tec> password
[18:26:00] <pfred1> there is very few 4 letter combination actually left
[18:26:03] <Jymmmm> pfred1: WTF (tm)?
[18:26:16] <pfred1> stuff like lcnc taken
[18:26:17] <Aero-Tec> lol
[18:26:42] <Jymmmm> pfred1: WTH ®
[18:26:56] <Aero-Tec> world trade federation WTF
[18:27:06] <Jymmmm> KMA
[18:27:11] <Jymmmm> OMG
[18:27:21] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Did you get that update URL?
[18:27:22] <Jymmmm> LOL
[18:27:28] <pfred1> Jymmmm GTFO ©
[18:27:38] <Jymmmm> RTFM
[18:28:02] <pfred1> ¿
[18:28:13] <Jymmmm> FU
[18:28:39] <Jymmmm> or is that F-U ®
[18:28:47] <pfred1> Jymmmm NØ
[18:28:51] <Aero-Tec> I seen something on TV, big letters WTF, some outfit or company was using that combo of letters for there trade name
[18:29:04] <Jymmmm> LOL â„¢
[18:29:29] <Jymmmm> (I knew it was somewhere n the dman keyboard =)
[18:29:37] <Aero-Tec> I laughed
[18:29:57] <Jymmmm> Just my 2¢ is all
[18:30:17] <skunkworks__> and for single index threading - you want to use interpolated postion from the encoder.
[18:30:30] <Aero-Tec> andypugh: yes I got the URL
[18:30:33] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[18:30:52] <Jymmmm> 'To ∞ and beyond!' ™
[18:31:20] * pfred1 £'s Jymmmm
[18:32:09] <Aero-Tec> ok, so how do I reset or find my linux password?
[18:32:18] <pfred1> for root?
[18:32:34] <andypugh> Hmm, is it asking for a password on a LiveCD install?
[18:32:41] <Aero-Tec> I have been hammering on the keyboard forever trying out things I may have used
[18:32:46] <Aero-Tec> yes root
[18:33:18] <Jymmmm> pfred1: £ ≠$, so no π for you!
[18:33:30] <Aero-Tec> when you do admin things in linux it will askk for the admin or root password
[18:33:37] <pfred1> OK you're going to have to mount your disk with another boot media then edit /mountpoint/etc/passwd and scrub out the password entry
[18:33:42] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: Um, there is no user ROOT unless you made changes.
[18:33:42] <andypugh> it might be "ubuntu" and blank password
[18:33:58] <andypugh> Ah, you mean for sudo?
[18:34:08] <pfred1> then your root password will be null so just hit enter and then run passwd
[18:34:27] <Aero-Tec> you lost me
[18:34:28] <r00t4rd3d> ok with a video card installed I get 5000,7000 and with one glxgears session going I get 12,000 and 14,000
[18:34:41] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: Are you logged in as yourself?
[18:34:43] <Aero-Tec> I set the password when I did the install over 300 days ago
[18:34:54] <Aero-Tec> not saure what I used
[18:34:57] <Aero-Tec> sure
[18:35:00] <pfred1> Aero-Tec you can crack a local system by booting it up off some other media then mounting the hard drive and editing files on it
[18:35:04] <r00t4rd3d> sudo <command>
[18:35:08] <r00t4rd3d> in a terminal
[18:35:17] <r00t4rd3d> enter your user padd
[18:35:20] <r00t4rd3d> pass*
[18:35:29] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: eay there big guy
[18:35:31] <Jymmmm> easy
[18:35:43] <pfred1> dependong on how yo uhave it setup sudo might ask you for a password
[18:35:54] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: What is your username on the system?
[18:36:08] <Aero-Tec> I did try a empty password
[18:36:19] <r00t4rd3d> is it connected to the internet? Want me to tell you the root pass?
[18:36:20] <Aero-Tec> my name
[18:36:22] <Aero-Tec> stan
[18:36:29] <Aero-Tec> I think
[18:36:33] <pfred1> Aero-Tec you can make it an empty password if you edit the passwd file
[18:36:37] <Aero-Tec> will have to look to make sure
[18:36:42] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: are you logged in as 'stan' right now?
[18:36:56] <Aero-Tec> will have to look
[18:37:14] <r00t4rd3d> so how horrible is 12,000 and 14,000 for Max Jitter numbers when glxgears is running?
[18:37:24] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d its OK
[18:37:31] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: under 20KnS is ok
[18:37:33] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d that with your PCI card?
[18:37:40] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[18:37:45] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d then you're in
[18:37:54] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: As they say, that's perfectly OK latency.
[18:37:58] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: less than 20,000nS is ok, above that is questionable
[18:38:06] <pfred1> anything under 20K is OK
[18:38:33] <pfred1> but at 20Kyou're not going to run crazy microstepping modes
[18:38:58] <andypugh> You can drive a stepper faster than a stepper can go with that latency.
[18:39:00] <r00t4rd3d> If i run glxgears and firefox my numbers goto 25k,27k
[18:39:16] <pfred1> I think ¼ or 1/8th is about the limit
[18:39:19] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: not good
[18:39:20] <andypugh> Still bearable. I have a 40k machine and that's OK
[18:39:33] <Jymmmm> andypugh: Ha! =)
[18:39:34] <pfred1> yeah run in half step mode
[18:39:39] <andypugh> (though only 1/4 step)
[18:39:48] <Jymmmm> andypugh: ah, ok
[18:40:21] <pfred1> anything other than full seems to avoid resonance to me
[18:40:23] <Jymmmm> andypugh: I take back by Ha!, and replace it with a ho!
[18:40:26] <andypugh> Running the text-based latency test in the RTAI folder I get 1300 for this machine. I am unconvinced.
[18:40:45] <r00t4rd3d> I have 1 - 1/2 - 1/8 - 1/16 MicroStep Settings
[18:40:58] <Jymmmm> andypugh: really? Wow, that's super low
[18:41:04] <pfred1> andypugh ther are a couple text based RTAI latency tests
[18:41:11] <andypugh> As I said, I am not convinced
[18:41:17] <Jymmmm> andypugh: no doubt
[18:41:59] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: you might get better results if you enter your BIOS and disable the things you won't be using. FDD, serial ports, etc.
[18:42:10] <r00t4rd3d> when emc2 starts it gives me a list of setups to choose from, anyone know what I pick for a 3 axis TB6560
[18:42:26] <pfred1> poke your eyes out and smash your video card
[18:42:37] <r00t4rd3d> ok Jymmmm I will do that
[18:43:11] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Instead of using a sample config, run stepconf to configure for your owb machine.
[18:43:13] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: even secondary drive controllers if you aren't using them.
[18:43:47] <pfred1> andypugh I ran stepconf and made my machine the default config
[18:44:48] <r00t4rd3d> sucks i have to use 8.04
[18:44:51] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d I use TB6560AHQ motor drivers
[18:45:19] <pfred1> what really sucks is most of the Lenny repos are gone today
[18:46:03] <Jymmmm> pfred1: ISO's?
[18:46:28] <pfred1> Jymmmm doesn't help much for aptitude safe-upgrade or adding new software
[18:46:44] <pfred1> there are still a couple out there though
[18:46:59] <pfred1> no official ones they all got taken down
[18:47:07] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: 8.04 is OK, and you can still run the latest LinuxCNC version
[18:47:29] <pfred1> what is the latest kernel RTAI can be patched against?
[18:48:20] <Aero-Tec> Jymmmm: yes I am logged in as stan right now
[18:48:46] <Aero-Tec> I think I set up stan with admin priv
[18:49:21] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: type: sudo passwd root<ENTER>
[18:49:25] <djdelorie> Aero-Tec: in a terminal window, type "sudo date" and see if it works
[18:49:48] <djdelorie> (or passwd ;)
[18:49:52] <pfred1> I've erased my root password on boxes I forgot the password on
[18:49:52] <Aero-Tec> can I just down load the new version and install over this old version?
[18:50:23] <pfred1> you have to boot it off other media then mount the HDD then go in and edit the passwd file
[18:50:34] <pfred1> remove the password field for root
[18:50:38] <r00t4rd3d> what do I want my parallel port option set at? I have like 3 listing in bios, ECP , EPP etc
[18:50:38] <Aero-Tec> so type in passwd, not the password I set up
[18:50:39] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Might be easiest. In fact make a copy of the EMC/configs/lathe folder, then download the LiveCD and do a nuke-from-orbit install?
[18:50:50] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: correct
[18:50:53] <pfred1> passwd is the command to change your password
[18:50:59] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: it will ask you for a NEW password
[18:51:06] <pfred1> but you can't use it if yo udon't know yoru password
[18:51:18] <Jymmmm> pfred1: Yes, he can.
[18:51:32] <pfred1> passwd asks you for your old one
[18:51:42] <pfred1> either that or you have ot be the user
[18:51:58] <Aero-Tec> will try
[18:52:12] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: ignore pfred1 for a moment and try what I suggested
[18:52:33] <Aero-Tec> I like the nuke from orbit idea
[18:52:37] * pfred1 doesn't change his passwords all that often well never
[18:52:38] <Aero-Tec> ok
[18:52:40] <Aero-Tec> will do
[18:53:35] <pfred1> Aero-Tec I can explain in enough detail what you need to do in order to alter your filesystem to remove your password
[18:53:36] <Jymmmm> pfred1: the use of 'sudo passwd blah' is just like being root changing a user's password, the old one isn't needed.
[18:53:56] <pfred1> how can you sudo if you don't know the password?
[18:53:58] <r00t4rd3d> glxdmesg
[18:54:09] <r00t4rd3d> whooops
[18:54:21] <pfred1> I always set root as my user's password
[18:54:23] <r00t4rd3d> i hate having 2 keyboards in front of my
[18:54:31] <Jymmmm> pfred1: initial user on ubntu have sudobility by default
[18:55:02] <pfred1> then do sudo -s
[18:55:31] * Jymmmm kicks pfred1 in the ass and hands him a cookie!
[18:56:20] <pfred1> which is mostly all I ever do for root anyways
[18:57:12] <pfred1> you can edit visudoers and make your main user root anyways
[18:57:53] <Aero-Tec> Jymmmm: it asks me for stans password
[18:58:00] <Aero-Tec> witch I do not know
[18:58:22] <pfred1> Aero-Tec how are you logged in as stan? autologin?
[18:58:31] <Aero-Tec> stan
[18:58:55] <Aero-Tec> but it does not ask for password on startup
[18:59:04] <pfred1> you autologin
[18:59:08] <Aero-Tec> thank god
[18:59:31] <Aero-Tec> says stan in the top right corner
[18:59:47] <pfred1> then run passwd as stan
[19:00:09] <Aero-Tec> tell me what to type in
[19:00:19] <Aero-Tec> please
[19:00:44] <pfred1> yeah passwd asks you for your password
[19:00:50] <Aero-Tec> sudo passwd stan?
[19:00:51] * pfred1 just ran it
[19:01:01] <pfred1> it won't help unless you know your current password
[19:01:39] <Aero-Tec> I have windows on this box as well
[19:01:51] <pfred1> Aero-Tec this may sound crazy but it worke better than I'd think it would you can overlay install Linux
[19:02:06] <pfred1> it doesn't seem to hurt it too much
[19:02:19] <pfred1> run install again but don't let it format your partitions
[19:02:54] <pfred1> but when it comes time to tell it a password pay some attention
[19:03:15] <Aero-Tec> how about just downloading the new live disk and installing that
[19:03:29] <pfred1> you could do that too but save your configs
[19:03:40] <Aero-Tec> it would be the new 2.5 and fix the pass code problem
[19:03:51] <pfred1> yes it would
[19:03:59] <andypugh> Shiny new Ubuntu too, I think
[19:04:18] <Aero-Tec> ok so how do I save the configs?
[19:04:21] <pfred1> LinuxCNC runs on newer than 10,04 now?
[19:04:47] <Aero-Tec> would it need more CPU power?
[19:04:54] <Aero-Tec> my computer is older
[19:04:56] <pfred1> Aero-Tec USB key network connection depends
[19:05:18] <pfred1> froppy a drisk a drive!
[19:05:40] <Aero-Tec> no floppy
[19:05:44] <Aero-Tec> not that old
[19:06:05] <Aero-Tec> but not sure if newer linux will like the old gal
[19:06:50] <pfred1> I run EMC2 on a 1 GHz P3 with an FDD among other things
[19:06:54] <Aero-Tec> so how do I save the configs?
[19:07:06] <andypugh> Do you still have the LiveCD uyou installed from back then?
[19:07:21] <Aero-Tec> yes
[19:07:26] <andypugh> To save the config, just make a copy of the emc2/configs/lathe folder
[19:07:35] <Aero-Tec> I would have to dig for them
[19:08:00] <Aero-Tec> could still be in the CD drive
[19:08:01] <Aero-Tec> lol
[19:08:02] <andypugh> You can always revert to them if your machine is creaky with the new version
[19:08:55] <pfred1> or install a lighter WM
[19:17:50] <Aero-Tec> does the older live download have the newer EMC 2.5?
[19:18:24] <pfred1> Aero-Tec it could
[19:18:43] <Aero-Tec> how would one find out for sure?
[19:18:53] <pfred1> you can download and install LinuxCNC separately
[19:18:54] <Aero-Tec> other then downloading it and trying it out
[19:19:38] <andypugh> No, the older LiveCD will install a 2.4 (or maybe 2.3) but can then be updated to 2.5
[19:20:08] <andypugh> Anyway, sleep time
[19:20:17] <pfred1> Aero-Tec the live ISOs are just one way of doing LinuxCNC
[19:20:35] <pfred1> the easiest way but not the only way
[19:20:54] <andypugh> But also an easy way to reset a password.
[19:20:59] <Aero-Tec> I like easy
[19:21:09] <andypugh> Not a quick way, though
[19:21:11] <pfred1> nothing worthwhile is ever easy
[19:22:44] <Aero-Tec> so does the new linux have large over head?
[19:22:54] <Aero-Tec> more of a CPU hog?
[19:23:06] <pfred1> depends how you configure it
[19:23:30] <Aero-Tec> the new live CD is smaller then the old it look like
[19:23:37] <pfred1> Aero-Tec I'm going to assume you don't know much about Linux
[19:23:45] <Aero-Tec> lol
[19:23:51] <Aero-Tec> did it show?
[19:24:08] <Aero-Tec> I use to do servers
[19:24:09] <pfred1> Aero-Tec well with Linux you can change your Window Manager or Desktop Environment
[19:24:15] <Aero-Tec> redhat
[19:24:26] <Aero-Tec> remote console
[19:24:26] <pfred1> and depending on which you use some are a lot lighter than others
[19:24:39] <Aero-Tec> long long ago
[19:24:41] <pfred1> LinuxCNC defaults to one of the heavier ones out there
[19:25:10] <pfred1> Gnome
[19:25:29] <pfred1> but lets say you switched to Fluxbox
[19:25:44] <pfred1> flux is a LOT lighter than Gnome is!
[19:25:53] <Aero-Tec> is there a better over all user interface?
[19:26:03] <Aero-Tec> for EMC
[19:26:04] <pfred1> that is subjective
[19:26:19] <pfred1> well EMC comes all setup in Gnome
[19:26:20] <Aero-Tec> using axis right now
[19:26:31] <pfred1> you have menu items icons etc
[19:26:47] <pfred1> but all of that stuff points to scripts or binary applications
[19:27:14] <pfred1> which you could access directly or make new menu items and icons for in other window managers
[19:27:41] <pfred1> or just make it fire up when you turn the machine on
[19:27:46] <Jymmmm> keystick FTW!
[19:28:00] <Aero-Tec> are you talking linux GUI or EMC GUI?
[19:28:16] <Jymmmm> who's you?
[19:28:17] <pfred1> linux doesn't have a gui per se
[19:28:28] <pfred1> unless you want to count make xconfig
[19:28:31] * Jymmmm kicks pfred1 in the ass and hands him a cookie again
[19:28:53] <pfred1> Jymmmm my ignore list os forever
[19:28:57] <pfred1> Jymmmm my ignore list is forever
[19:29:22] <Jymmmm> did someone say something?
[19:29:24] <pfred1> and you're about this >.< close to it now
[19:29:46] <Aero-Tec> what would be the best beginner GUI to use for EMC?
[19:29:52] <pfred1> Gnome
[19:30:00] <Jymmmm> pfred1: It be nice if you gave accurate information as well.
[19:30:01] <pfred1> because it is all setup
[19:30:17] <pfred1> Jymmmm what have I said that is inaccurate?
[19:30:37] <Aero-Tec> not easy to setup
[19:30:48] <Aero-Tec> best for using to make chips
[19:30:51] <Jymmmm> linux has no gui, you HAVE to have old password, etc
[19:31:07] <pfred1> Jymmmm pfred1@buck:/media/giga/Files$ passwd
[19:31:07] <pfred1> Changing password for pfred1.
[19:31:07] <pfred1> (current) UNIX password:
[19:31:14] <pfred1> Jymmmm bye
[19:31:22] <pfred1> 20:21 Ignoring ALL from Jymmmm
[19:32:01] <Aero-Tec> there use to be Xwindows and a few other GUIs for linux
[19:32:06] <Aero-Tec> am I wrong?
[19:32:17] <Jymmmm> yes there was
[19:32:17] <pfred1> linux is an OS kernel it has nothing to do sith X Window
[19:32:24] <djdelorie> Linux has no GUI. Ubuntu has many GUIs
[19:32:39] <djdelorie> Linux is just one component of Ubuntu
[19:32:41] <Aero-Tec> I know I did have a selection of GUIs at one time that I could use with linux
[19:32:47] <pfred1> X Window is at least 10 years older than Linux
[19:33:01] <djdelorie> The catch is, not "with linux" - it's "with a linux-based distro"
[19:33:04] <Aero-Tec> ok
[19:33:16] <djdelorie> it's pedantic, but that's what they're talking about
[19:33:19] <Valen> actually I wonder if for 12.04 EMC livecd should move to xubuntu
[19:33:30] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: But ppl know it as linux, not a linux distro
[19:33:34] <Valen> unity is just too painfull
[19:33:38] <djdelorie> Hence the "pedantic"
[19:33:38] <pfred1> I vote for plain Debian
[19:33:50] <Valen> problem is gnome itself pfred1
[19:33:51] <djdelorie> pfred1: how'd your Fedora thing work out?
[19:33:54] <Jymmmm> DOS has no GUI, plain and simple
[19:33:54] <pfred1> Debian has its drawbacks but the ycan be overcome
[19:33:55] <Valen> gnome3 isn't much better
[19:34:07] <Jymmmm> boot any linux today and you have a gui
[19:34:08] <Valen> main issue i see with debian is hardware support
[19:34:08] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: DOS's GUi is Windows ;-)
[19:34:15] <pfred1> djdelorie not good when I installed 32 bit compat libs to run Eagle
[19:34:16] <Valen> out of the box
[19:34:18] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: MS-DOS 6.21
[19:34:26] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: MS-D)S 3.31
[19:34:31] <Jymmmm> etc
[19:34:38] <pfred1> djdelorie you remember when I asked you about sd(EXEC)?
[19:34:42] <djdelorie> ah, that.
[19:34:57] <pfred1> yeah it made the system unusable
[19:35:02] <Aero-Tec> so back to fixing password, any quick and easy way to reset password or find out what it is?
[19:35:12] <djdelorie> if you can run sudo, you can reset the password
[19:35:13] <pfred1> I'm all for trying to fix stuff but not frozen in molassass
[19:35:13] <Aero-Tec> I used to use DOS all the time
[19:35:21] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: you can NEVER find out what it is.
[19:35:22] <Aero-Tec> back in the day
[19:35:30] <pfred1> djdelorie won't it still ask you for your password?
[19:35:34] <djdelorie> Aero-Tec: me too
[19:35:57] <djdelorie> pfred1: sudo bypasses the need for "old password" in passwd, assuming you can get past sudo *itself* wanting a password
[19:36:06] <pfred1> Aero-Tec Pro Tip: wtire your password on a postit note and put that on the side of the machine
[19:36:08] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: you dont know jack about dos! ;)
[19:36:17] <djdelorie> ;-)
[19:36:44] <pfred1> hey I started doing that after I lost my first password
[19:36:46] <Valen> boot into livecd and reset the passwd file hash or is that too ott?
[19:37:25] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: That's a very bad idea, never write down passwords and stick them on the monitor, under keyboards, etc. In your wallet is sorta ok
[19:37:30] <pfred1> I've goofed up Linux systems and overinstalled them to recover it works OK
[19:37:39] <djdelorie> IIRC Ubuntu's strategy is to not give root a password at all, but give sudo to the regular user(s), so there's no root password to remember.
[19:37:49] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: exactly
[19:38:05] <pfred1> yeah how the root account is handled today is a strange deal
[19:38:12] <djdelorie> by "not give root a password" I don't mean it has an empty password, I mean there's no password that will match - ever.
[19:38:25] <Valen> I always wind up sticking a password on it ;->
[19:38:30] <djdelorie> that's just Ubuntu. Fedora is different, it gives root a password.
[19:38:33] <pfred1> don't they just deny root a shell?
[19:38:36] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: theres no need to be root, that was the intension
[19:38:47] <Valen> pfred1: nope default root has no password
[19:38:53] <djdelorie> They claim that, but they're wrong, IMHO
[19:39:04] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: Why?
[19:39:10] <Aero-Tec> used to use root all the time when setting up redhat web servers
[19:39:17] <djdelorie> there are subtle differences between sudo and a real root shell
[19:39:20] <pfred1> debian sort of can pull the same thing but you can make an honest to god root account
[19:39:37] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: Sure, but your not talking a wrokstation
[19:39:41] <Valen> you can still use root if you want to
[19:39:45] <Valen> sudo passwd root
[19:39:54] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: I mean a workstation
[19:40:24] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: The idea is not to allow something with root proveldges to run just becasue the user is logged in as such.
[19:40:25] <Aero-Tec> so is the new live CD cool?
[19:40:39] <pfred1> Aero-Tec its Ubuntu
[19:40:52] <Aero-Tec> but a newer version of it
[19:40:56] <pfred1> how cool that is is a matter of opinion
[19:41:10] <Aero-Tec> was wondering if they made some cool changes
[19:41:14] <pfred1> its better than Windows
[19:41:19] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: true, logging in as root from the greeter is bad, because a lot of things assume the "desktop user" owns most of the system.
[19:41:21] <Aero-Tec> lol
[19:41:28] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: If it asks for a password and you didn't do anything, you'll be like WTF? and wonder what is going on.
[19:41:33] <Aero-Tec> dos was better then windows
[19:41:52] <djdelorie> most greeters won't even let root log in anyway, even if you know the password, for that reason.
[19:42:08] <pfred1> what is a greeter?
[19:42:08] <Valen> setting up roaming profiles on a primary domain controller is easier to do in linux than windows :-<
[19:42:16] <pfred1> like a DM?
[19:42:18] <Valen> the thing that asks you to login pfred1
[19:42:30] <Valen> in a graphical environment
[19:42:37] <pfred1> like GDM or XDM or KDM ?
[19:42:43] <djdelorie> the greeter is the thing that asks you who you want to log in as, and asks for your password, before starting up your desktop
[19:42:56] <djdelorie> GDM for gnome, KDM for kde, etc.
[19:43:01] <pfred1> k a DM
[19:43:51] <pfred1> djdelorie I have this box just about totally tricked out now with Debian Squeeze and Trinity KDE
[19:44:12] * pfred1 loves his KDE 3.5 !
[19:44:24] * djdelorie still uses fvwm2
[19:44:30] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: Did I ever get you the utility FIRM?
[19:44:36] <djdelorie> nope
[19:45:02] <pfred1> after fvwm I used afterstep then windowmaker
[19:45:25] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: creates FDD images under dos and any version of windows
[19:45:36] <pfred1> I used windowmaker for a long time but it kind of turned into abandonware
[19:46:03] <pfred1> it still works today but I donno
[19:46:35] <pfred1> KDE 3.5 does a few things that I find really handy
[19:47:18] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: obsolete, Linux distros come with all that stuff built-in
[19:47:29] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: does dont
[19:47:31] <Jymmmm> dos
[19:47:47] <djdelorie> The only DOS I run these days runs under Linux anyway
[19:47:58] <pfred1> dosemu?
[19:48:02] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: you sell out bastard!
[19:48:11] <djdelorie> hey, I work for Red Hat :-)
[19:48:25] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: No excuse!
[19:48:26] <pfred1> well you were the king of ms-dos once
[19:48:45] <djdelorie> at least I still run DOS *at all* :-)
[19:48:51] <pfred1> I tried out djgpp before i tried Linux
[19:49:05] <djdelorie> A surprizingly large number of people have done that
[19:49:18] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: emu,vm dont count. DesqView I'll accept
[19:49:20] <pfred1> well I'm one of them
[19:49:40] <djdelorie> Jymmmm: I ported djgpp to DesqView X once
[19:49:43] <pfred1> it was a big motivater to take the full plunge
[19:49:51] <gene__> andypugh: if that was a bug, its been there for many years, put it back
[19:49:54] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: and?
[19:50:12] <djdelorie> and Quarterdeck paid me, and people used it until DVX itself went away
[19:50:21] <Jymmmm> cool
[19:50:30] <pfred1> I remember Quarterdeck
[19:50:40] <pfred1> didn't they write qemm?
[19:50:46] <djdelorie> yes
[19:51:00] <pfred1> back when 4MB RAM was a lot!
[19:51:23] <djdelorie> it wasn't enough to run gcc, which is why go32 was created
[19:53:14] <pfred1> I remember having to hack my autoexec.bat and config.sys files
[19:53:41] <pfred1> man and i thought that was tough
[19:54:02] <pfred1> now I have /etc to worry about
[19:55:29] <Aero-Tec> I remember when 4K was allot, and upgrading to 16K was more then you would ever need in a life time, lol
[19:55:42] <ReadError> awwwwwww yea
[19:55:44] <ReadError> weekend ;)
[19:56:06] <Aero-Tec> that was the sales pitch given to me when looking at computers back in the day
[19:56:35] <ReadError> pfred1
[19:56:42] <ReadError> let me know if you have any general questions
[19:56:42] <pfred1> ReadError ?
[19:56:45] <ReadError> thats my job
[19:56:48] <ReadError> linux sys admin
[19:56:58] <ReadError> i dont know much about machining yet though
[19:57:14] <pfred1> ReadError OK how come videos have a blue tinge in them on You Tube?
[19:57:31] <ReadError> lol
[19:57:39] <ReadError> hardware accel on or off?
[19:57:43] <pfred1> on
[19:57:51] <ReadError> try with it off
[19:57:55] <ReadError> i mostly work with servers :)
[19:57:57] <ReadError> not desktops
[19:57:59] <pfred1> I have been messing with my video libs a lot
[19:58:17] <pfred1> setting up mplayer
[19:58:28] <ReadError> i prefer VLC
[19:59:00] <pfred1> with all the troubles I've been having lately i might start preferring something else
[19:59:03] <ReadError> much better IMO
[19:59:23] <pfred1> yeah i think the lead dev of mplayer left in 2009
[19:59:32] <pfred1> it has gone downhill since then
[19:59:41] * djdelorie uses vlc too
[20:01:36] <pfred1> http://pastebin.com/mt3kEy5U
[20:05:12] <pfred1> on the brighter side I got Quake running on dual monitors :)
[20:07:13] <pfred1> how about that passwd won't let you change your password to your old password
[20:07:15] <Valen> i find that worse not better than 1
[20:07:35] <Valen> 3 monitors would be ok
[20:07:37] <Valen> balanced then
[20:07:38] <pfred1> Valen the bezels are distracting
[20:07:55] <ReadError> pfred1: just change some characters in /etc/shadow
[20:08:26] <djdelorie> quake3 on 3 monitors is fine, even with the bezels, as long as the center monitor is bigger
[20:08:54] <pfred1> yeah I'm having a heck of a time with mismatched monitors
[20:09:31] <Valen> problem is with 2 monitors the aim point is in the middle of the gap
[20:09:33] <Valen> which is sucky
[20:09:39] <pfred1> one is 1280x1024 the other is 1400x900
[20:10:12] <pfred1> well that does put my aim point onto my wide screen
[20:10:18] <pfred1> I didn't think about that
[20:11:30] <pfred1> djdelorie this is a $67 computer so only dual screen :)
[20:11:41] <djdelorie> mine is a little more expensive :-)
[20:11:55] <pfred1> that is everything I even added i nthe mouse
[20:13:05] <pfred1> I have my "real" PC upstairs
[20:15:05] <pfred1> I hear nVidia just put out something that can do 3 monitors one card
[20:16:05] <djdelorie> I just replaced two nvidia cards with one ati that can do four monitors on one gpu
[20:16:28] <djdelorie> I have a matrox card that can do four monitors, but the linux driver has serious bugs
[20:16:34] <pfred1> AMD does seem to have the multimonitor lead
[20:17:09] <Connor> I loved Matrox cards back in the day.. 486 and Pentium 1 days.. They rocked!
[20:17:10] <pfred1> AMD and nVidia multi monitor is a bit different
[20:18:02] <pfred1> nVidia kinda lies to X and says it is one big screen
[20:18:30] <djdelorie> if you have one card, yes. If you have two cards, X has to merge them in software. Major performance drop.
[20:18:40] <Valen> and uses the sync rate as a magic code as well
[20:19:38] <pfred1> with my lopsided monitors i am running into some oddities
[20:20:38] <Connor> I've been trying to get my USB monitor hooked up to Ubuntu 10.04 for a long time now.. Just can't get it to work.
[20:21:02] <Valen> usb monitors werent really a thing 2 years ago
[20:21:16] <Connor> Doesn't even work with 11.04 either.
[20:21:18] <Connor> I tried.
[20:21:26] <Valen> they are up to 12.04
[20:21:40] <Valen> what did you want to use it for anyway?
[20:21:44] <Connor> I tried the latest 11.x version
[20:22:00] <Connor> Oh, Robotics.. I had a Mini ITX running linux and ROS..
[20:22:11] <Valen> the first advice anybody is going to give you is use the latest foo
[20:22:20] <Connor> and on my desktop, a little dock for a specific application.
[20:22:51] <Connor> Yea, I'm happy with 10.04. Not EVEN wanting to switch to Unity.
[20:22:59] <pfred1> Valen here the latest foo has turned everyone on YouTube blue!
[20:23:08] <Valen> yeah there is that
[20:23:21] <Valen> i hear removing libvdpau "fixes" it
[20:23:39] <pfred1> is that what turned everyone blue on me?
[20:24:07] <Connor> Valen: Fixes what ?
[20:24:13] <pfred1> blue hue
[20:24:31] <Valen> i believe its something to do with flash player handing the data to the hardware video decoder with the channels mixed around
[20:24:51] <Valen> taking out vdpau gets rid of hardware playback
[20:25:40] <pfred1> SmurfTube!
[20:25:56] <Valen> sadly enough i kinda got used to it rofl
[20:26:11] <Valen> its sad no "fix" has been released for it yet
[20:27:16] <pfred1> I was like why is everyone blue? now I'm glad it isn't just me
[20:27:52] <pfred1> I wonder if gnash does it too?
[20:27:57] <Valen> yeah there is a bug for it
[20:28:05] <Valen> i believe that is another "fix"
[20:28:31] <Valen> its just the way the data is being passed to the hardware playback stuff
[20:28:34] <pfred1> gnash doesn't run too horribly on this machine
[20:28:42] <Valen> somebody made a typo at adobe
[20:29:03] <Valen> its actual compatibility with flash was rather lacking last time i played with it
[20:29:19] <pfred1> gnash?
[20:29:58] <Valen> yeah
[20:40:14] <Valen> my experience with gnash is quite old though
[20:40:45] <pfred1> last time I ran it it still seemed crippled but it wasn't as crash happy
[20:43:17] <ReadError> pfred1
[20:43:21] <ReadError> you tried chrome?
[20:43:25] <ReadError> it has its own flash
[20:43:40] <pfred1> chromium
[20:43:48] <ReadError> ya
[20:44:00] <ReadError> with hardware accel off?
[20:44:01] <pfred1> chromium isn't exactly chrome
[20:44:21] <ReadError> https://www.google.com/chrome?platform=linux
[20:47:03] <Connor> http://youtu.be/TF8mByQ3F-4?hd=1
[20:47:43] <jdhNC> I like that handle on teh rotary table.
[20:47:50] <Connor> :)
[20:47:58] <Connor> Yea. It's one from the mill.
[20:48:21] <Connor> I didn't have one when it was given to me.. It's not even tight.. it's just press fit ATM.
[20:48:28] <jdhNC> you should get twice that speed on X?
[20:48:30] <Connor> I'm going to put a stepper on it at some point.
[20:48:40] <Connor> I can push it faster..
[20:48:54] <Connor> I just limited to 80IPM across the board.
[20:49:13] <Connor> It can stall unpredictably in some places..
[20:49:33] <jdhNC> does it bind in places?
[20:49:52] <Connor> I think I was pushing around a 100IPM at one point.. but, when it gets to one side or the other, the weight of the table can cause it to be a littler harder to move.. and thus stalls the stepper.
[20:50:16] <Connor> If you listen, you can hear a little squeak in the background while I'm jogging it around..
[20:50:24] <Connor> not sure what that's about...
[20:50:40] <Connor> I've checked the anti-backlash setscrews and oiled everything good..
[20:50:46] <Connor> gibs are tight..
[20:50:53] <jdhNC> did you pull teh gibs out when you had it apart?
[20:51:03] <Connor> I've never had it apart.
[20:51:26] <Connor> Was afraid to. :)
[20:51:29] <Valen> if its annything like our mill the gib tightening screws weren't tapped all the way through
[20:51:45] <Valen> they so tightening the screws didn't do anything
[20:51:49] <jdhNC> wish arturo would come up with the manual for this rev c41
[20:51:56] <ReadError> how do you determine a spindle RPM for various materials?
[20:52:00] <ReadError> like plastics and such
[20:52:07] <jdhNC> doesn't seem to make any difference if I have the 12v supply plugged in or not.
[20:52:16] <Valen> oh fwiw blue people is in chrome too
[20:52:22] <Valen> havent turned hw accell off there
[20:53:16] <Valen> ReadError: you look it up from the tool
[20:53:18] <Connor> ReadError: Look in the Machinists handbook to get the base rate, and the use the correct formula for endmill diameter and number of flutes
[20:53:25] <jdhNC> speedtest.net shows 21Mbps down, but youtube stutters and stops every 15 seconds
[20:53:36] <ReadError> oh cool , i do have the handbook
[20:53:45] <ReadError> didnt realize it had all those materials and formulas..
[20:53:50] <Valen> tool manufacturer will have a datasheet that says what cut details their tool wants
[20:53:51] <Connor> I've got it in PDF on my phone. :)
[20:54:09] <Connor> also, lots of phone apps out there.
[20:54:41] <Connor> jdhNC: Trying to figure out were to place my box for the E-Stop.
[20:54:59] <pfred1> Connor what motor drivers do you use geckos?
[20:55:11] <Connor> No, Keling 5056's
[20:55:20] <jdhNC> on the head
[20:55:28] <pfred1> they're great too what voltage?
[20:55:33] <Connor> 50v
[20:55:38] <Connor> Running at 48v
[20:55:47] <jdhNC> how high can you crank your 48v PS?
[20:55:56] <Connor> I didn't check.
[20:56:06] <pfred1> what is the max input on Keling?
[20:56:15] <Connor> 50v
[20:56:24] <jdhNC> mine are 60
[20:56:28] <pfred1> then i guess you're doing what you can do
[20:56:29] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BIEUZY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
[20:56:39] <ReadError> i see nothing, on niagras site either
[20:57:05] <Connor> KL-5056 20-50VDC 5.6A
[20:57:23] <Connor> You can get KL-68522 5.2A 24-60VDC but, they're not in stock.
[20:57:26] <pfred1> Connor OK you monitoring your voltage with more than one axis going?
[20:57:48] <Connor> No. Not monitoring it at all. Why?
[20:57:51] <pfred1> like does your PSU have the amps?
[20:58:18] <Connor> It's a 12.5Amp PSU it should be good.
[20:59:06] <pfred1> ah 5.6 X 3 = 16.8
[20:59:29] <jdhNC> 12 is more than enough
[20:59:52] <pfred1> jdhNC who are you Bill Gates?
[20:59:57] <Connor> pfred1: That assumes that all 3 axis are maxing out the Amps and stalled.
[21:00:13] <jdhNC> pfred1: lemme check my bank balance.
[21:00:18] <pfred1> Connor true I always like to see some safety margin
[21:00:19] <Connor> This was a kit put together by Keling, tested by several people.
[21:00:50] <jdhNC> also tested with a 7.3amp 48V
[21:02:16] <pfred1> those drives have hold current limiters in them anyways
[21:02:44] <Connor> and have 1/2 current mode too when Idle.
[21:02:55] <pfred1> idle would be holding
[21:03:03] <pfred1> that is when your motors draw the most
[21:04:16] <pfred1> steppers are funny if you put an ammeter on them the faster they go the less they draw
[21:04:27] <jdhNC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYhmtZ4Jsu8&feature=plcp
[21:04:51] <pfred1> which is why they stall out at high speed
[21:05:36] <djdelorie> servos are the other way - the faster they go, the more current they draw
[21:05:47] <pfred1> djdelorie servos are proper motors
[21:06:07] <pfred1> steppers are motors designed in Poland or something
[21:06:40] <jdhNC> connor: how many steps are you running?
[21:06:48] <Connor> 1/8th
[21:07:04] <djdelorie> Connor: what's the linear travel per step for each axis?
[21:07:47] <pfred1> 18^-12
[21:07:59] <djdelorie> miles? millimeters?
[21:08:14] <pfred1> rods
[21:08:21] <Connor> X and Y are 10 turn per Inch. So, at 1/8th stepping.. 0.000625"
[21:08:57] <Connor> Z is 1 inch per 6 turns, so, 0.00375" per step
[21:09:47] <djdelorie> sounds reasonable. Mine was something like 0.000 05 per step at first, wouldn't go at full speed, ended up reducing the microstepping
[21:09:49] <jdhNC> Z should be 0.000104
[21:10:19] <jdhNC> x/y .0000625
[21:11:17] <Connor> jdhNC: You sure on the Z ?
[21:11:32] <pfred1> some microstepping drivers have as much as a 40% variance between steps
[21:11:46] <jdhNC> 1600 uSteps/rev, 6 revs/inch
[21:11:49] <pfred1> but it isn't cumulative error
[21:12:22] <pfred1> some allegro drivers were really bad that way
[21:13:06] <Connor> that's right.. 9600 steps for the Z.
[21:13:39] <jdhNC> 16000 for x/y
[21:13:46] <Connor> Yup.
[21:14:07] <Connor> jdhNC: You said on the head? Were on the head?
[21:14:09] <jdhNC> you needed another 0 :)
[21:14:19] <Connor> I don't want to block access to the spindle.
[21:14:42] <jdhNC> needs to be in front, easy to see, accessible from both sides
[21:15:14] <Connor> Underneath, ontop, or on the side of the existing control box not good ?
[21:15:17] <pfred1> djdelorie you couldn't get the pulse train out of LinuxCNC?
[21:15:28] <djdelorie> right. my pc has high jitter
[21:15:36] <pfred1> djdelorie atoms rock
[21:15:48] <djdelorie> I have faster machines, they just weren't as readily accessible as the one I picked
[21:15:56] <Connor> 35000 Base thread is about max you can get on a atom though..
[21:16:18] <pfred1> some AMDs post great scores too
[21:16:28] <jdhNC> I'm going to start mine at 8 also, but I don't think it will be much if any better than 2
[21:16:45] <pfred1> Connor most with atoms are getting 5000ns
[21:16:48] <Connor> It's a bit quieter. and smoother.
[21:16:59] <Valen> I had a dual xeon 3ghz
[21:17:02] <Valen> was awesome ;->
[21:17:11] <Valen> i ran the servo thread at 10khz i think lol
[21:17:20] <jdhNC> mine does 5000 also, but I can make it hit 20k+
[21:17:23] <Valen> sounded like a jet taking off
[21:18:01] <Valen> max jitter was 2458
[21:18:55] <Connor> pfred1: Hmm.. I don't have any priapratery video drivers.. wonder why 5000 doesn't play nice..
[21:19:04] <Connor> let me switch to my CNC machine.. back in a min
[21:19:11] <pfred1> djdelorie until you run LinuxCNC on a machine it is hard to say what is faster
[21:20:08] <djdelorie> this is a 800 mhz pentium III
[21:20:35] <jdhNC> I don't think I ever owned a p3
[21:20:37] <djdelorie> I need to pick a different pc anyway as this one doesn't have USB
[21:20:49] <Valen> with the dual cpu setup and isocpus I didn't have an issue with nvidia binary drivers
[21:20:51] <pfred1> djdelorie I use a 1 GHz P3 and get 18400
[21:21:17] <djdelorie> I get around 20000 but I still get errors when linuxcnc runs. Still works OK though
[21:21:24] <Jymmmm> This is a 486DX25 running realport 3c509 drivers!
[21:21:30] <pfred1> using axis?
[21:21:46] <djdelorie> yeah, axis
[21:22:00] <Aero-Tec> is it hard to convert Gcode for mach to Gcode for EMC?
[21:22:06] <pfred1> GL can be funny on weaker hardware have you tried tkemc?
[21:22:15] <Aero-Tec> I hand write code mostly
[21:22:18] <djdelorie> nope
[21:22:35] <Aero-Tec> anything I should watch for?
[21:22:38] <jdhNC> Aero: load some in axis and see how it looks.
[21:22:39] <pfred1> yeah axis is nice better to just get stronger PC
[21:23:18] <Connor1> Hmm.. locked up when I did base-thread 5000
[21:23:30] <Connor1> You sure it's not 50000 ?
[21:23:46] <Aero-Tec> I know threading is supposed to be a huge difference
[21:23:48] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: you say P3 or P4 ?
[21:23:53] <djdelorie> p3
[21:23:57] <Jymmmm> ah
[21:24:10] <pfred1> Connor1 you have to go with what the machine tests at or find out why it tests high
[21:24:13] <Aero-Tec> also jog is limmited
[21:24:23] <djdelorie> dual core p3, too
[21:24:30] <Valen> HT makes things crap
[21:24:31] <djdelorie> er, sorry, dual CHIP p3. ancient.
[21:24:46] <Valen> real threads with isocpus is good
[21:24:51] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: I have a dual xeon mobo/cpu if you're interested =)
[21:24:57] <pfred1> djdelorie you have one CPU dedicated to the RT?
[21:24:58] <Aero-Tec> on z for the lathe it is about .2 inches total movement
[21:25:07] <Valen> djdelorie: what numbers are you getting? I had a dual chip board and it was great
[21:25:10] <djdelorie> I have faster PCs to use
[21:25:26] <pfred1> well there is a way to dedicate one proc just to LinuxCNC
[21:25:26] <Aero-Tec> how does one set the max movement in EMC?
[21:25:28] <djdelorie> the pc is fast enough to run the cnc machine, it just doesn't have usb
[21:25:38] <Valen> usb card?
[21:25:39] <Connor_CNC> I had HT turned on.. I jut turned it off. This is a Dual Core machine too.. would that cause issues?
[21:25:46] <Valen> HT makes issues
[21:25:47] <djdelorie> Aero-Tec: the min/max values and home switch location are all set in stepconf
[21:25:49] <pfred1> djdelorie what do you need USB for?
[21:25:51] <Valen> dual core is good
[21:26:03] <Connor_CNC> Can you dedicate 1 core to RT ?
[21:26:15] <djdelorie> the only other way to get the g-code files to that pc is to run an ethernet wire across the shop floor
[21:26:16] <pfred1> Connor_CNC yes there is something on the site about how to set it up
[21:26:25] <Jymmmm> djdelorie: that's dual xeon cpus, not just dual cores =)
[21:26:36] <Aero-Tec> I have no limit/home switches yet
[21:26:36] <pfred1> djdelorie k good reason
[21:26:59] <Connor_CNC> Looks like max jitter is 11111 at the moment.. that's with me opening up chrome and going to do a search.
[21:27:03] <Valen> Connor isocps will do that, i don't recall if its done by default
[21:27:08] <djdelorie> Aero-Tec: you still have to tell stepconf what your min/max are
[21:27:18] <Valen> start glxgears, it might make a spike
[21:27:34] <pfred1> GL is the killer
[21:27:51] <Valen> pfred1: I found that its just starting the gl window that causes the issue
[21:27:53] <Connor_CNC> nope. still under 11111
[21:28:02] <Valen> once that's done its fine
[21:28:37] <Valen> provided you don't decide to start playing quake halfway through milling ;-P
[21:29:02] <pfred1> ascii quake!
[21:30:12] <Valen> there is an ascii viewer for mplayer i think
[21:30:17] <Valen> its actually pretty good
[21:30:25] <pfred1> I think mplayer has ascii output
[21:30:30] <Connor_CNC> can't find anything on isocps
[21:30:46] <jdhNC> isolcpu maybe?
[21:30:51] <Aero-Tec> so what about the threading from mach to EMC?
[21:31:35] <Aero-Tec> heard there was a difference on how they work
[21:32:09] <Aero-Tec> sorry for being a pain and also thanks for all the help
[21:32:53] <Connor_CNC> isolcpu just restricts RT to 1 core..
[21:33:04] <Aero-Tec> will also need to set up back lash
[21:33:35] <jdhNC> connor: how is the backlash?
[21:33:55] <Valen> Connor thats the point
[21:34:10] <Valen> it means the rest of the machine also wont use that
[21:34:26] <pfred1> try it maybe you'll like it
[21:34:33] <Connor_CNC> 0.0051" on X
[21:34:43] <Valen> is it on by default now?
[21:34:50] <Connor_CNC> Z is 0.0037"
[21:34:54] <Connor_CNC> I've not tested Y yet.
[21:35:04] <Connor_CNC> Valen: The core? yes.
[21:35:27] <Valen> i mean isolcpus, i *belive* the current livecd shipps with it set by default
[21:35:59] <Connor_CNC> Oh. I dunno. How can I tell?
[21:36:16] <Valen> its in the grub options somewhere
[21:36:45] <jdhNC> isolcpus=1
[21:37:22] <pfred1> dmesg might have it
[21:37:47] <Connor_CNC> doesn't look like it.
[21:38:23] <pfred1> cat /proc/cmdline
[21:38:52] <Connor_CNC> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-122-rtai root=UUID=fee3f726-4e19-4f9a-8665-a50fb18fa38f ro quiet splash
[21:39:03] <Valen> no isolcpus then by the look of things
[21:39:04] <pfred1> well there you have it
[21:39:24] <Valen> pfred1: you know I have been looking for something like that for *ages*
[21:39:26] <pfred1> can't hurt to try
[21:39:43] <pfred1> Valen ya gotta lub the penguin
[21:39:57] <Valen> I do, but all my google fu failed me
[21:40:10] <pfred1> linux show kernel boot parameters
[21:40:14] <pfred1> was how I found it
[21:40:20] <Connor_CNC> rebooting.. brb
[21:40:33] <Valen> so i think Connor wants to edit etc/default/grub then run an update grub
[21:40:49] <pfred1> well grub and grub2 different
[21:42:03] <pfred1> I need to setup bootchart on this box and check it out
[21:42:18] <Connor_CNC> okay, how do you update grub after making the change ?
[21:42:28] <pfred1> update-grub
[21:42:43] <Connor_CNC> okay. rebooting
[21:43:18] <pfred1> least i thnk been a long time since I've manually done it
[21:43:31] <Valen> guess we'll find out ey ;->
[21:43:35] * pfred1 uses the debian way of doing kernels anymore
[21:43:48] <pfred1> dpkg -i
[21:44:07] <pfred1> always scary to delete my running kernel
[21:44:34] <jdhNC> that's why we have backups of eveyrthing that counts.
[21:44:50] <pfred1> I think there may be a point where a backup won't help you
[21:45:08] <jdhNC> sure it will. after you do a fresh install, you reload all your stuff.
[21:45:15] <pfred1> oh i see
[21:45:26] <pfred1> yeah you can repair a fubared grub
[21:45:31] <pfred1> but it is a pain
[21:45:52] <jdhNC> just boot a livecd or mini-linux
[21:46:02] <pfred1> that is part of it
[21:46:34] <pfred1> you have to chroot
[21:46:41] <Valen> Connor1 did you b0rk it?
[21:46:54] <Valen> pfred1: and dont forget to mount /proc etc into the chroot before hand
[21:46:56] <Connor1> No. Just rebooted
[21:47:09] <Connor_CNC> not sure it made much of a difference.
[21:47:12] <pfred1> Connor1 are you ioscling?
[21:47:37] <Connor_CNC> Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-122-rtai ro quiet splash isolcpus=1
[21:47:45] <pfred1> sure looks like it
[21:48:07] <Connor_CNC> It's at 9994 ATM
[21:48:25] <pfred1> see if it isn't spiky
[21:48:27] <Connor_CNC> with glxgears running, Pidgin and Chrome up
[21:48:51] <pfred1> I'd say 10K latency is pretty good
[21:49:02] <Connor_CNC> Yea. I'm setting it to 15000 to be safe.
[21:49:07] <jdhNC> dd a big file
[21:49:50] <pfred1> go for 11K and just keep an eye on it
[21:49:52] <r00tCNC> hey im runnign the stepconf wizard, for Driver Type do I leave at Other for TB6560?
[21:50:07] <jdhNC> other is fine, put in your numbers
[21:50:23] <r00tCNC> thats was my next question
[21:50:39] <Connor_CNC> What does it matter at this point if it's driving the steppers correctly ?
[21:50:42] <jdhNC> one of the other options had all the step/dir pins that matched my tb. I think it was the xylotex
[21:50:55] <jdhNC> connor: it doesn't. Fast enough is fast enough
[21:51:03] <pfred1> Connor_CNC yeah i guess if you're getting the pulse train you need
[21:51:25] <Connor_CNC> Just got a RAPI Delay on starting EMC.. at 15000
[21:51:26] <Connor_CNC> ugg
[21:51:30] <Connor_CNC> taking it to 20000
[21:51:44] <pfred1> OK do this
[21:51:57] <pfred1> tail -f /var/log/syslog
[21:51:59] <r00tCNC> pfred1, where do I get my numbers?
[21:52:08] <pfred1> see if you can catch what is causing it
[21:52:17] <jdhNC> from the spec sheet that came with the board
[21:52:43] <pfred1> r00tCNC what jdhNC says
[21:52:53] <r00tCNC> i didnt get a spec sheet
[21:53:01] <jdhNC> did you get a URL to one?
[21:53:03] <pfred1> you must have gotten something
[21:53:14] <Connor_CNC> RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1
[21:53:23] <Valen> Connor thats what I see when i start an opengl window
[21:53:27] <r00tCNC> i got no documentation or cd, was suppose to get a cd i guess
[21:53:30] <Valen> not just having glx running
[21:53:32] <Valen> just starting it
[21:53:45] <Valen> after its running you can plot latency in axis
[21:53:55] <Valen> see what it looks like there perhaps
[21:53:57] <pfred1> r00tCNC well you can probably download it then
[21:54:34] <pfred1> Connor_CNC I'm with Valen one spike on start isn't a show stopper
[21:55:06] <Valen> we've been running with it like that for ages, 30K spike on start, regular running is ~4000
[21:55:25] <pfred1> yeah just don't start the app while you're running the app
[21:56:43] <Connor_CNC> Dinner time, back in a bit
[21:58:01] <pfred1> r00tCNC do you have a link to the brand board you have?
[21:58:43] <r00tCNC> sec
[21:59:28] <r00t4rd3d> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320878949251
[21:59:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/upload/uploads/file/Tb6560ahq.pdf
[22:00:19] <r00t4rd3d> they link to that datasheet but im still looking for those numbers
[22:00:34] <pfred1> that is just the IC
[22:01:15] <r00t4rd3d> ffs
[22:01:50] <pfred1> dang it has nichicon caps
[22:03:41] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d do yourself a favor and never run 36 volts into this driver
[22:03:48] <jdhNC> min step pulse is 30uS
[22:04:22] <r00t4rd3d> I have a 24v 15a power supply
[22:04:29] <pfred1> yeah that is fine
[22:04:35] <jdhNC> heh, 15 amps for a TB6560
[22:04:54] <pfred1> they can draw 3 amps a piece
[22:04:55] <r00tCNC> thats what they recommended
[22:05:12] <r00tCNC> for nema 23 motors
[22:05:19] <jdhNC> gecko suggests 60% of total
[22:07:49] <r00tCNC> i emailed the sellar and asked for the cd contents to me emailed to me
[22:12:33] <r00tCNC> http://www.georgegardner.info/software/tb6560-ebay-3-axis-driver-and-linuxcnc-emc.html
[22:12:39] <r00tCNC> ha
[22:13:13] <r00tCNC> he didnt know what to use for those numbers so he just left them
[22:14:16] <pfred1> r00tCNC this is what you need
http://www.georgegardner.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Screenshot-1.png
[22:16:20] <pfred1> r00tCNC also never disconnect a motor wire while the drive is powered up
[22:16:57] <pfred1> you will let the magical smoke out of your board
[22:28:57] <r00t4rd3d> is it possible to setup and test just one axis at a time
[22:30:46] <r00t4rd3d> well i guess i could just not hook the motors up and just enter what ever for the numbers
[22:31:51] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d you can do that but even if you get them wrong the motors will just act strange you won't blow anything up
[22:32:32] <pfred1> step and dir signals are electrically similar just different timings
[22:33:20] <pfred1> on thing i had to do was use a 5000ns timing pulse with my drivers or they wouldn't run right
[22:33:31] <pfred1> might just be my drivers though
[22:36:33] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Those current percentages I believe are for when the motors are idle.
[22:36:49] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: aka "holding current"
[22:52:17] <r00t4rd3d> in the morning i am going to test the controller, power supply and motors
[22:55:47] <pfred1> just remember to turn power off before you move motor wires
[23:02:59] <r00t4rd3d> are nichicon caps good or bad?
[23:03:02] <r00t4rd3d> bad i take it
[23:20:52] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you hear what pfred1 said???
[23:21:03] <ReadError> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844760/
[23:21:11] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you hear what pfred1 said???
[23:21:12] <ReadError> cutting tomorrow ;)
[23:21:14] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you hear what pfred1 said???
[23:21:51] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/Ar8VkYmCAAAJKhu.jpg:large
[23:21:53] <ReadError> derp
[23:21:54] <ReadError> that
[23:23:13] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: You will INSTANTLY blow your shit up if you don't
[23:27:07] <pfred1> I like nichicons
[23:31:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/us/new-york-the-scream/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
[23:31:47] <r00t4rd3d> people are morons
[23:32:34] <r00t4rd3d> 120million for what looks like a crayon drawing
[23:32:50] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you hear what pfred1 said???
[23:33:19] <r00t4rd3d> really man?
[23:33:43] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[23:33:46] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[23:33:47] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[23:33:47] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[23:33:48] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i did
[23:34:05] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d,
[23:34:09] <ReadError> where the pics at?
[23:34:46] <r00t4rd3d> i dont really have anything new to picture
[23:34:48] <Jymmmm> r00t4rd3d: yeah, really. I've said it FOUR TIMES to watchout for your shit, no benefit to me at all. yet you don't acknowledge what pfred1 or I said to HELP *YOU* out, but if you want to be a smartass about it, fine... GOOD LUCK !
[23:34:59] <r00t4rd3d> wow
[23:43:10] <pfred1> the trouble with art is it is rarely worth much while the artist is alive
[23:43:40] <Aero-Tec> it is over priced most of the time
[23:43:43] <pfred1> unless you're Thomas Kincade
[23:43:53] <Valen> can art be "over priced"?
[23:44:05] <Valen> you can't actually put a value on it
[23:44:12] <pfred1> sure you can
[23:44:23] <Aero-Tec> why some want to pay what they pay is beyond me
[23:44:31] <Valen> how much is an art?
[23:44:43] <Jymmmm> Valen: Ask PT Barnum
[23:44:50] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:45:18] <Aero-Tec> it is worth what you can sucker someone to pay for it
[23:45:28] <Valen> but thats what *everything* is worth
[23:45:41] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: (you're the first person to every catch that =)
[23:45:47] <Jymmmm> s/every/ever/
[23:46:03] <Valen> often people get better deals than a manufacturer would like ;-P
[23:46:45] <pfred1> I like to think I do OK
[23:47:12] <pfred1> the PC I'm on now I paid $67 for
[23:47:21] <Jymmmm> you goto the termnially ill section of the hospotal with paint and canvases, then collect profits on the "art" they create when you sell it off as their dead
[23:47:22] <Aero-Tec> a good cnc machine is worth good money, it will make back the investment meny times over and still keep chugging out the money
[23:47:46] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:47:57] <Aero-Tec> now that thinking
[23:48:13] <Aero-Tec> instant increase in value
[23:48:15] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: No, it's the PERSON that knows how to use the tools that will do that, the machine just sits there =)
[23:48:41] <Aero-Tec> true
[23:48:43] <Jymmmm> Aero-Tec: you see that guy with no arms making stools?
[23:49:10] <Aero-Tec> no I did not
[23:50:07] <pfred1> oh wait I didn't include what I paid for the speakers $68 dollars
[23:50:14] <Jymmmm> I'll look for the video later, but he uses his feet to saw wood, swing a hammer driving nails, run a small wood lathe, and a rotarary sander.
[23:51:24] <Aero-Tec> with art you can not get it to pay for it's self several times over no matter how talented you are, unless your a master BSer and can con someone into paying more then you did
[23:51:46] <pfred1> Aero-Tec I bought a Picasso for 75 cents
[23:52:17] <pfred1> I could probably get a few grand for it today
[23:52:28] <Aero-Tec> that is more them I would have paid, unless I could sell it for a profit
[23:53:00] <pfred1> I donno it is kind of nice
[23:53:05] <Aero-Tec> you have to pay some art expert to authenticate it, so more $$
[23:53:06] <pfred1> Don Quixote
[23:53:15] <pfred1> no it is the real thing
[23:53:29] <Aero-Tec> then hope and pray he says it is real
[23:53:52] <Aero-Tec> I like tec and machines
[23:53:52] <pfred1> it is what it is
[23:54:12] <Aero-Tec> things I know
[23:54:24] <Aero-Tec> art is a world onto its self
[23:54:32] <Aero-Tec> not into it at all
[23:54:51] <pfred1> I like to draw and paint
[23:55:19] <Aero-Tec> anyways I am installing the latest live CD
[23:55:43] <Aero-Tec> will need to know how to setup backlash
[23:55:57] <Aero-Tec> hope to use the lathe tonight
[23:56:03] <pfred1> beats me I used HDPE nuts
[23:56:21] <pfred1> they got the grip of death
[23:56:28] <Aero-Tec> how well do they work?
[23:56:35] <pfred1> pretty good
[23:56:43] <Aero-Tec> big machine?
[23:56:50] <Aero-Tec> lathe or mill
[23:56:56] <pfred1> no router
[23:57:12] <Aero-Tec> ok so no steel cutting
[23:57:17] <pfred1> no
[23:57:56] <pfred1> my mill has tons of backlash
[23:58:05] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:58:10] <Aero-Tec> sounds like mine
[23:58:24] <pfred1> an RF-32
[23:58:32] <Aero-Tec> I need to upgrade to ball screws
[23:58:45] <pfred1> if you do you can't use it by hand anymore
[23:58:48] <Aero-Tec> soon I hope
[23:59:00] <pfred1> unless you have 3 arms
[23:59:06] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:59:59] <Aero-Tec> did you buy the nuts or cast them your self?
