#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-30

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[00:04:22] <pfred1> it looks CGI but i guess it is for real?
[00:04:30] <toastydeath> it's for real
[00:05:02] <toastydeath> he's got a good photographer
[00:05:08] <toastydeath> or is a good photographer
[00:05:29] <toastydeath> it's just crosslit and that gives things a very surreal quality to them
[00:09:48] <pfred1> this is fake http://www.hec.nasa.gov/news/gallery_images/hubble_rns_compare_lg.jpg
[00:10:22] <pfred1> well one of them is
[00:12:27] <toastydeath> i'm going to guess it's the one that isn't slightly out of focus and has a crumpled, metallized cloth finish
[00:14:05] <pfred1> they made it with this: http://www.hec.nasa.gov/news/gallery_images/discover_ibm_0309.jpg which I don't think would fit very well onto my desktop
[00:14:50] <pfred1> I wonder if it runs Linux?
[00:15:01] <pfred1> good chance it does
[00:16:10] <pfred1> hmmm they're not saying but I can't imagine it is running anything else
[00:16:49] <toastydeath> there's no reason to have an ssi machine for raytracing
[00:17:01] <toastydeath> so chances are >95% it's linux
[00:17:22] <pfred1> http://www.hec.nasa.gov/news/features/2009/hubble_rns.072809.html
[00:19:04] <toastydeath> runs suse linux, apparently
[00:19:09] <toastydeath> http://www.nccs.nasa.gov/cluster_main.html
[00:19:15] <pfred1> oh it says?
[00:19:34] <pfred1> that looks like a different machine
[00:19:41] <toastydeath> same one
[00:19:59] <Jymmm> Valen: A universal charger perhapse? http://www.mini-box.com/OpenUPS
[00:20:59] <pfred1> yeah you almost have to be retarded today to run a cluster on anything but Linux
[00:23:21] <toastydeath> linux still doesn't do ssi very well
[00:23:33] <toastydeath> so there are some very large clusters out there that run other unix variants
[00:23:41] <pfred1> pretty soon we won't need telescopes we'll just be able to make everything up with CGI
[00:26:20] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandem_Computers
[00:26:37] <Jymmm> (Guardian OS)
[00:27:18] <Jymmm> I will say the Himalaya's were very nice.
[00:28:41] <Jymmm> alex4nder: You ALMOST had me sold on that mobo. I still might, but doubtful.
[00:29:03] <alex4nder> Jymmm: what?
[00:29:07] <pfred1> Jymmm what do you need a mobo for?
[00:29:27] <alex4nder> buy whatever you want
[00:29:36] <Jymmm> alex4nder: It has a realtek nic chipset instead of an intel
[00:29:42] <alex4nder> no it doesn't
[00:29:52] <Jymmm> Yes, it does. Read the specs
[00:29:53] <pfred1> realtek nics are fine
[00:29:59] <alex4nder> Jymmm: dude, I have the board in front of me
[00:30:11] <alex4nder> I pased the PCIe info the channel earlier.
[00:30:21] <alex4nder> +to
[00:31:09] * pfred1 Linux and realtek got back a loooong time ....
[00:31:43] <pfred1> ne2k baby yeah!
[00:32:03] <alex4nder> Jymmm: http://downloadmirror.intel.com/20714/eng/DN2800MT_TechProdSpec02.pdf <- or you could read the specs
[00:32:16] <alex4nder> and see the Intel *257$L gigabit ethernet controller reference in 1.11.1
[00:32:25] <alex4nder> er 82574L
[00:32:43] <pfred1> is intel gigabit better than realtek gigabit somehow?
[00:32:51] <alex4nder> in theory yes
[00:33:46] <pfred1> expound on the theory I'm fascinated
[00:34:06] <Jymmm> alex4nder: ok, they fscked up http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-DN2800MT-Mini-ITX-Motherboard
[00:34:35] <alex4nder> yup
[00:34:38] <Jymmm> alex4nder: But some intel mobo's DO come with realtek
[00:34:43] <Jymmm> nics
[00:34:47] <alex4nder> of course, but not this one.
[00:34:51] <pfred1> yeah because intel knows it don't matter
[00:35:13] <Jymmm> pfred1: There are KNOWN issues under linux for relatek nics
[00:35:20] <Jymmm> and have been a for a coupel fo years
[00:35:44] <pfred1> Jymmm nothing I've ever known about
[00:36:05] <Jymmm> pfred1: ok, so you dont know anything, that doens't change the fact.
[00:36:19] <pfred1> Jymmm got a link?
[00:36:32] <Jymmm> nope
[00:38:42] <alex4nder> well whatever
[00:38:45] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Ok, I may try it. But I'm kinda looking at the Jet with 6 sata ports
[00:39:00] <alex4nder> haha I don't care man, get whatever board floats your boat.
[00:39:10] <Jymmm> O_o
[00:39:16] <pfred1> I think it all boils down to feathres
[00:39:24] <pfred1> features not feathers
[00:39:27] <alex4nder> haha
[00:39:42] <pfred1> hey if you're that way maybe it does all boil down to feathers
[00:40:19] <alex4nder> yah
[00:40:26] <alex4nder> you look at your requirements, and you make a choice.
[00:40:36] <Jymmm> Hmm, I wonder if that OpenUPS + that intel board would be a good match
[00:40:41] <pfred1> or look at what is on sale
[00:40:47] <Jymmm> literally same price
[00:41:10] <pfred1> because in 2 years it is going to be so much junk anyways
[00:41:15] <Jymmm> alex4nder: What cables does it come with?
[00:41:40] <alex4nder> sata, and power for a sata drive from the motherboard
[00:42:01] <pfred1> Jymmm right now you want pcie3 and usb3
[00:42:42] <Jymmm> alex4nder: 1 or 2 pair of cables?
[00:43:12] <alex4nder> 2?
[00:43:24] <Jymmm> k
[00:43:28] <pfred1> why does sata power come off the mobo?
[00:43:41] <alex4nder> because the motherboard has an integrated power supply
[00:43:46] <Jymmm> alex4nder: do they give any specs for the power connectors?
[00:43:54] <Jymmm> alex4nder: internal
[00:43:56] <alex4nder> yah, they're in intel's tech document
[00:44:06] <pfred1> alex4nder is this an atom board?
[00:44:11] <alex4nder> yup
[00:44:13] <Jymmm> ok, only on pg18
[00:45:03] <alex4nder> you need to read the product tech specs
[00:45:14] <alex4nder> section 2.6.1 has a full breakdown on component power consumption
[00:45:27] <pfred1> what is it like 16 watts?
[00:46:02] <alex4nder> the CPU isn't the huge sucker of juice
[00:46:07] <alex4nder> it's all the little bits you can hook to it
[00:46:23] <alex4nder> I'll do a write-up on it once I actually test it on the mill
[00:46:26] <pfred1> forget about that what is it bare?
[00:46:37] <alex4nder> read the specs
[00:46:48] <alex4nder> there are all sorts of different conditions
[00:46:59] <alex4nder> idle is like sub 10 watts or something
[00:47:15] <pfred1> sounds typical for an atom
[00:47:46] <pfred1> dual or quad?
[00:47:53] <alex4nder> dual
[00:50:14] <pfred1> ah ha they haven't even released the quads yet
[00:53:22] <Jymmm> alex4nder: 30¢ for a powee connector?! that's outragous!!!! lol
[00:54:26] <alex4nder> I picked up a DB25 to IDC26 adapter, and a case
[00:54:29] <pfred1> woah the newest atoms aren't very cheap
[00:54:44] <alex4nder> the case has got room for a mesa pcie card
[00:54:50] <pfred1> you could buy a real PC for what they cost!
[00:54:58] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Heh, I got a bag of those =)
[00:55:53] <Jymmm> alex4nder: it sas 8-19VDC, you shoudl try a 9V battery for the hell of it
[00:56:08] <pfred1> it'd work
[00:57:10] <alex4nder> yah
[00:57:13] <alex4nder> until it doesn't. ;)
[00:57:30] <pfred1> take a bit before it fell below 8V
[00:57:41] <alex4nder> I'm using two supplies on my mill right now.. 13.8v and 48v
[00:57:43] <alex4nder> so it works out
[00:58:14] <pfred1> it seems there are no Linux drivers for the latest atom GPU
[00:58:30] <alex4nder> there are
[00:58:36] <alex4nder> they're just binary only, and old.
[00:58:38] <alex4nder> which blows.
[00:59:44] <pfred1> then wikipedia is out of date
[00:59:52] <Jymmm> Cool, they still have BIOS recovery mode. I hope they NEVER get rid of that feature.
[01:00:26] <alex4nder> pfred1: I tried getting them working today.. Meego is shipping with them
[01:00:38] <alex4nder> but they're an older ABI, and I don't want to downgrade X
[01:00:45] <pfred1> alex4nder you have an D2500?
[01:01:14] <alex4nder> dn2800mt
[01:01:17] <Jymmm> pfred1: are you having a bad hair day today by chance?
[01:01:26] <pfred1> Jymmm why?
[01:01:30] <Jymmm> pfred1: are you having a bad hair day today by chance?
[01:01:35] <pfred1> Jymmm why?
[01:01:42] <Jymmm> answer first
[01:01:51] <pfred1> no my hair rox
[01:02:07] <Jymmm> well, other things dont and why I asked
[01:06:42] <alex_joni> what's a 'custom solutions header'?
[01:07:02] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I only see the one sata power connector (I) near edge of heatsink on section 1.1.2, is it a dual cable?
[01:07:27] <Jymmm> alex_joni: This mobo doesn't use ATX 24 connector, it runs from 8-19VDC directly, any source
[01:07:45] <Jymmm> alex_joni: rear panel coax, or on board molex
[01:08:00] <alex4nder> Jymmm: the power cable is multiple connectors.
[01:08:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ah, thanks.
[01:08:27] <alex_joni> Jymmm: that doesn't answer my question
[01:08:47] <Jymmm> alex_joni: then rephrase the question
[01:09:18] <alex_joni> http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/dn2800mt/sb/CS-032652.htm
[01:09:26] <alex_joni> what is 'X'?
[01:09:57] <alex4nder> alex_joni: it's in the tech specs
[01:10:00] <alex4nder> http://downloadmirror.intel.com/20714/eng/DN2800MT_TechProdSpec02.pdf
[01:10:16] <alex4nder> they should have just called it 'misc. signal connector'
[01:10:23] <pfred1> I can't figure out what CPU alex4nder's board has on it
[01:11:06] <alex4nder> N2800
[01:11:26] <alex_joni> alex4nder: so it's some bits you can access?
[01:11:56] <alex4nder> alex_joni: yes and no, it's more of a grabbag
[01:12:18] <alex4nder> SMB_{CLK,DATA}_RESUME, 3.3v standby. PWRBT#, HDMI CEC, Watch Dog Timer, Ground
[01:13:11] <alex_joni> ah, so not really usefull ;)
[01:13:31] <alex4nder> I guess that depends on what you're doing. ;)
[01:13:36] <alex4nder> someone cares about it
[01:14:30] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Here you go... http://www.pcworld.com/article/143777/the_secret_feature_on_your_hdtv_hdmi_cec.html
[01:14:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni: You can now control your pc via tv remote
[01:15:57] <alex4nder> I think it's more like, now your custom digital signage control boards can now receive that signal and do something with it.
[01:16:06] <alex4nder> like turn your machine on and off.
[01:16:09] <alex_joni> Jymmm: when it works :)
[01:16:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Err, I meant to say your CNC fro your TV Remote =)
[01:16:31] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Hit the REWIND button and see what happens =)
[01:17:03] <alex_joni> they don't mention linux support for it :D
[01:17:08] <alex_joni> http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/cs-008326.htm
[01:18:10] <pfred1> alex4nder so this is what you have? http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXDN2800MT-Desktop-Board-DN2800MT/dp/B006XFIK08
[01:18:26] <Jymmm> alex_joni: That's only becasue those lazy ass romaian developers haven't written one yet!
[01:19:05] <pfred1> freaking romaians we should throw them back to the Klingon empire!
[01:19:21] <Jymmm> I say the wolves
[01:19:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC
[01:20:47] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Glorified Karioki machine maybe?
[01:22:01] <Jymmm> Hmmm, now to find a LCD panel that fits
[01:23:32] <Jymmm> alex4nder: the ONLY thing they missed was making the coax connector switch out the internal/external power.
[01:24:14] <alex4nder> pfred1: yup
[01:24:28] <pfred1> alex4nder Intel says it could be cheaper
[01:24:41] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I don't really understand the importance of something like that
[01:24:43] <pfred1> Recommended Customer Price $96 - $101
[01:24:57] <alex_joni> pfred1: was that meant for me?
[01:25:10] <alex_joni> Jymmm: but this way you can power something else from it
[01:25:22] <pfred1> alex_joni I don't think so
[01:25:47] <pfred1> /msg alex4nder Intel says it could be cheaper
[01:26:21] <alex_joni> pfred1: no, I meant the comment about romanians and klingons
[01:26:45] <pfred1> alex_joni do you have pointy ears?
[01:27:37] <alex_joni> pfred1: I might develop them later
[01:27:45] <pfred1> alex_joni green blood?
[01:28:33] <alex_joni> in appropriate lighting
[01:28:52] <pfred1> then you should go back to the Klingons
[01:29:21] * alex4nder sets up a Debian repository
[01:58:45] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:17:27] * Valen looks at installing a terminal server farm :-<
[02:27:06] <Jymmm> alex4nder: If it had a switched coax connector on the rear, you could (potentially) make the internal connector a battery
[02:28:11] <Jymmm> a standby battery
[02:28:53] <Jymmm> I guess you could do it anyway, but would need to add some intelligence to it
[05:16:23] <r00t4rd3d> e-ndy, you are not important enough to have an away nick.
[05:16:29] <r00t4rd3d> no one cares
[05:39:23] <e-ndy> a still tongue makes a wise head
[05:54:16] <r00t4rd3d> my tongue didnt move during the typing of that sentence.
[06:04:04] <e-ndy> but that doesn't imply, that you are wise :)
[06:07:12] <jthornton> e-ndy, please turn off your status reporting it seems to toggle back and forth constanly and floods with messages about your being away from your keyboard
[06:14:01] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[06:40:52] <jthornton> morning
[06:55:35] <Tom_itx> hey
[07:45:43] <jthornton> logger[mah], log
[07:45:44] <logger[mah]> jthornton: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-04-30.html
[10:20:28] <jdhNC> pcw?
[10:23:04] <pcw_home> ?
[10:25:12] <jdhNC> is there a way to keep my pwmgen from floating high when linuxcnc is not running?
[10:25:30] <jdhNC> 7i43/7i47
[10:28:17] <pcw_home> One of the 7I47outputs will be low before Linux CNC starts. chose this output
[10:29:15] <jdhNC> one of the pair?
[10:29:44] <pcw_home> (this is the inverting output = +)
[10:29:55] <jdhNC> when I use the other half of TX0, the pwm is reversed
[10:30:22] <pcw_home> Then invert the PWM output (is_invert)
[10:30:51] <jdhNC> nice. i'll try that tonight. Thanks.
[10:31:28] <pcw_home> sorry tag is "invert_output"
[10:32:18] <Gromits> Anyone familiar with Gladevcp reload object?
[10:35:50] <pcw_home> so its something like
[10:35:53] <pcw_home> setp blah.blah.blah.gpioN.invert_output true
[10:37:05] <jdhNC> I found an example where you answered a similar question a few months ago.
[10:47:12] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: we had a power failure yesterday and trying to restart the BP with the 5i25/7i77 only the analog pins show up on the 7i77 when I view them in show hal config. Any suggestions?
[11:00:57] <pcw_home> Check field power
[11:02:08] <pcw_home> 7I77 is like the 7I76, all bit I/O is powered by the 12/24V field power
[11:03:45] <JT-Shop> field power 24v CR3 is on
[11:07:26] <pcw_home> so you restart EMC and only the encoders/analog show up?
[11:10:04] <JT-Shop> yes, I powered down everything then powered back up a couple of times
[11:10:12] <JT-Shop> let me look to see the encoders show up
[11:10:57] <JT-Shop> yes encoders show up under 5i25
[11:13:08] <pcw_home> Well I guess the next thing is to check the 24V and then the 3.3V on the field I/O isolated side
[11:13:46] <pcw_home> also (5I25 part of) dmesg may help
[11:20:25] <JT-Shop> where do I check the 24v and 3.3v?
[11:23:15] <pcw_home> 24V is on the input (VIN = TB2 pin 5) relative to TB2 pin 8 (field power gnd)
[11:25:25] <pcw_home> 3.3V is on the bottom side of L1 (little ferrite inductor on center left of TB2) above lower electrolytic (C33)
[11:27:12] <JT-Shop> ok, I checked 24v on TB2 and that is ok
[11:30:27] <JT-Shop> what is the gnd for L1?
[11:34:45] <pcw_home> tb2 pin 8 (field power gnd)
[11:37:52] <JT-Shop> ok
[11:40:59] <JT-Shop> 3.28v on L1
[11:42:01] <JT-Shop> I'll clear dmesg and reload the config with an input
[11:42:11] <pcw_home> OK so maybe its a I/O fault of some kind. can you pastebin the dmesg
[11:48:45] <JT-Shop> hmmm, for some strange reason I had to reboot and now it works
[11:55:16] <pcw_home> power cycle or just reboot?
[11:59:09] <JT-Shop> reboot
[12:06:53] <pcw_home> Well thats mysterious then...
[12:38:26] <Tom_itx> logger[mah]
[12:38:26] <logger[mah]> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-04-30.html
[12:44:16] <Tom_itx> ok, what do you use to bleed off the main caps on power off? i asked this yesterday and someone said the power led was sufficient. i considered a 500 ohm 10w r or so. will the led's bring it down in a timely manner or should i look for another bleed off source. ~20,000 uf caps ~50v
[12:44:37] <Tom_itx> and does it matter if the logic supply comes online before the main supply?
[12:45:01] <Tom_itx> steppers with a 7i43 7i47 board
[12:47:34] <pcw_home> well a fairly hefty LED current of 10 mA would be 5K Ohm = 100 seconds time constant
[12:48:00] <Tom_itx> my psu board will have a place for 3 leds
[12:48:45] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: on my phase converter I put some panel indicator lights AB for each phase and they work good to drain the caps...
[12:48:48] <pcw_home> do you like bright LEDs (newer LED are so efficient that they are often blinding at 10 mA)
[12:49:05] <Tom_itx> also, i'm coming off the centertap of one transformer to get a lower voltage for my 5v smps for the logic
[12:49:18] <Tom_itx> i don't care about the leds. i can hide them if i don't like it :)
[12:49:41] <Tom_itx> i've got some old old leds that should work good for this
[12:50:29] <pcw_home> for servos I would have an active charge dump but at 50V and step motors thats too much trouble
[12:51:07] <Tom_itx> i considered a relay or a dpdt power switch and use one leg for a resistor drain
[12:51:31] <Tom_itx> simple but effective
[12:51:42] <pcw_home> Yeah that good for servos as it will do braking as well
[12:52:24] <Tom_itx> i hope to get some wiring done on the stepper drivers today
[12:53:36] <pcw_home> Shorting out step motors doesn't work the same way it does with servo motors unfortunately
[12:54:03] <Tom_itx> the short would be at the psu caps
[12:54:38] <pcw_home> yes this brakes servo motors
[12:54:53] <Tom_itx> oh really? even thru the driver?
[12:54:59] <pcw_home> yes
[12:55:05] <Tom_itx> good to know
[12:55:11] <Tom_itx> i guess that makes sense
[12:55:20] <Tom_itx> since they act as a generator
[12:55:44] <pcw_home> the driver is just a single or 3 phase bridge rectifier if theres no gate drive
[12:56:05] <pcw_home> (with the DC out on the capacitor terminals)
[12:58:31] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[12:58:34] <Tom_itx> progress report
[12:59:06] <Tom_itx> i need to find / build a box for all the driver psu stuff
[12:59:37] <Tom_itx> i lucked out on that heatsink material. scrap yard bonus
[13:04:20] <Tom_itx> the sherline spindle motor was bitchin about taking a full cut off those fins for a mounting flange
[13:05:12] <Tom_itx> i miss the Okumas
[13:05:43] * Thetawaves nuked his power supply project yet again so just went and bought a danfoss s1000
[13:06:33] <Tom_itx> mine were surplus and so far are working out quite nicely
[13:06:51] <Thetawaves> the transformers?
[13:07:04] <Tom_itx> yeah
[13:07:17] <Thetawaves> it is nice to use transformers in home made psu, i can't find that kind of iron though
[13:07:20] <Tom_itx> 50v dc at about 18A
[13:08:03] <Tom_itx> i checked the output of each one before i combined them
[13:09:04] <Thetawaves> you know about hooking them up in the same direction and such
[13:09:13] <Thetawaves> yeah?
[13:09:14] <Tom_itx> yes
[13:09:17] <Thetawaves> k
[13:09:27] <Tom_itx> i joined them after the bridges though
[13:09:38] <Thetawaves> why?
[13:09:43] <Tom_itx> otherwise i would have checked the phases
[13:09:51] <pcw_home> Nice heatsink
[13:10:01] <Tom_itx> because i originally was gonna make 3 supplies but decided one was better
[13:10:04] <Tom_itx> so i had the parts
[13:10:13] <Tom_itx> pcw_home i got about 8' of it
[13:11:37] <Tom_itx> Thetawaves, i did join the primaries on the transformers though
[13:15:01] <Tom_itx> this is way overkill for the sherline but i'm building for future expansion
[13:15:49] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: looking good
[13:24:30] * Jymmm lol @ Tom_itx
[13:26:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: nice find on the heatsink though
[13:27:22] <andypugh> A guy on the forum is using some useful looking servo amps, 220VA input, and they take step/dir or quadrature or analogue or serial input.
[13:27:33] <andypugh> (22VAC I mean)
[13:27:55] <andypugh> No, I don't mean that either. I mean 220V AC
[13:28:02] <Jymmm> =)
[13:28:24] <Jymmm> I liked the 22V AC better
[13:29:13] <Jymmm> 22V AC @ 220VA works for me =)
[13:30:52] <Tom_itx> Jymmm you don't like my wiring job? :)
[13:31:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Your wiring is perfectly fine
[13:31:47] <Jymmm> I like the c channel for the xfmr mounts too, easy to carry without pinching fingers
[13:33:01] <Tom_itx> i'm just using stuff i have on hand
[13:33:27] <Tom_itx> i hope to find / make a box for it all
[13:33:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I might have used grommets on the holes though, I can't count the times there has been a micro-slice in the insulation and cause intermittant shorts.
[13:34:00] <Jymmm> hard to locate too
[13:34:04] <Tom_itx> yeah i put thick heatshrink around them
[13:35:41] <Jymmm> those edges still look sharp, did you deburr them?
[13:35:46] <Tom_itx> yup
[13:35:51] <Tom_itx> both sides
[13:36:37] <Jymmm> still look sharp to me but *shrug*
[13:36:41] <Tom_itx> it's probably all gonna come apart again anyway once i get the boards for my caps
[13:37:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'd bevel the edges with a reamer or large drill bit
[13:37:26] <Jymmm> no 90deg edges
[13:37:27] <Tom_itx> i used a debur bit
[13:37:41] <Jymmm> ok, maybe it's just the photo then =)
[13:38:21] <Jymmm> Why did you mix/match solder/crimp-ons?
[13:38:57] <Tom_itx> did i?
[13:39:15] <Jymmm> Looks like it to me... http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu4.jpg
[13:40:04] <Thetawaves> servo motors seem expensive and weak compared to steppers, whats the deal?
[13:40:13] <Tom_itx> i cheated and took the sleeve off some of them so i could get both wires in then i soldered all the wires in place and put heatshrink over the bare ones
[13:40:36] <Tom_itx> Thetawaves they're not weaker, you use them differently
[13:40:48] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you soldered the crimpons?
[13:40:56] <Tom_itx> sure did
[13:41:10] <Thetawaves> Tom_itx, how so?
[13:41:12] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: not a good thing to do just fyi
[13:41:12] <Tom_itx> i don't like stuff coming loose
[13:41:20] <Thetawaves> gear down because they run faster?
[13:41:23] <Tom_itx> and pray tell why not?
[13:41:50] <Thetawaves> soldered crimpons are bad for cables, things that move
[13:41:57] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: servos provide MUCH more torque at higher RPMs
[13:42:05] <Thetawaves> the copper will fatigue at the end of the solder
[13:42:08] <Tom_itx> i don't think those are gonna move
[13:42:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the solder makes the wire strands a solid and brittle, more tendancy to break
[13:42:29] <Thetawaves> it's not an issue for case wiring
[13:42:34] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: I used to solder crimps too, but no longer.
[13:43:32] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, how comparable are servo motors for small movements?
[13:43:39] <Jymmm> I used crimpsons all the time, but I have a $100 pair of crimpers too. The wire will break before coming out of the crimp.
[13:43:44] <djdelorie> if tuned right, I can hold 0.09 degree
[13:43:44] <Jymmm> s/used/use/
[13:43:45] <Thetawaves> where the higher rpm isn't necessarily used
[13:43:49] <Tom_itx> it's funny how forums and opinions vary
[13:44:03] <djdelorie> and since they're encoder based, I *know* where they are when they're "microstepping"
[13:44:28] <jdhNC> I know where my steppers are too... somewhere between the real steps.
[13:44:31] <djdelorie> Mine can do 100 oz-in continuous, 350 oz-in intermittent, and that's from dead stop to 3000 RPM
[13:44:34] <syyl> mh a correct done crimp will never come loose
[13:44:40] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, i have a $10 pair and kept the $90
[13:44:43] <syyl> soldering makes it only bad :(
[13:44:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you used a lighter to shrink the tubing?! *sigh* what am I going to do with you
[13:44:56] <Thetawaves> so the screw design for servo systems isn't usually direct drive?
[13:44:57] <djdelorie> jdhNC: the difference is "somewhere" vs "I know exactly where"
[13:45:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: and thuse why you dont trust it well enough that you think you need to solder it too.
[13:45:28] <Thetawaves> sort of djdelorie, your encoders aren't exact
[13:45:31] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: I geared mine up/down to match the screw rods, but I suspect direct drive is popular.
[13:45:31] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't anyway
[13:45:42] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: how do you know?
[13:45:57] <Thetawaves> i suppose it depends on the encoder technology
[13:46:10] <djdelorie> Another advantage of encoder-based systems: you can't possibly "miss" a step, you just lag behind until you catch up
[13:47:00] <djdelorie> so, for example, my controllers keep track of the motor position even when the motor power is removed, and can correct when power is restored
[13:47:10] <Thetawaves> so 350 oz-in from dead stop to going... that is pretty handy and also not mentioned anywhere in the specs about these motors
[13:47:30] <Thetawaves> i assume you have 100oz-in rated servos
[13:48:10] <Thetawaves> ac? brushless dc? brushed dc? what kind of servos
[13:48:58] <djdelorie> http://www.electrocraft.com/files/ead_bldc.pdf page 9, mine are the DA34GBB-13 graph
[13:49:24] <djdelorie> ok, 340 oz-in ;-)
[13:50:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what was the name of the place you got your power supply from?
[13:50:46] <djdelorie> They're marked DA34FBB-3AA, brushless DC, 160v design voltage, 134 oz-in continuous stall, 335 oz-in peak, 5000 RPM max
[13:51:14] <Jymmm> what is "continuous stall" ?
[13:51:28] <djdelorie> continuous stall is the equivalent of a stepper's "holding torque"
[13:51:40] <Jymmm> ah
[13:51:50] <Jymmm> funny name
[13:52:09] <Jymmm> continous hold seems like a better name
[13:52:20] <djdelorie> the terms assume the motor is running at some RPM, so "stopped" means there's so much load on it that the motor stalled
[13:52:37] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: Antek not Antec which is the first to show up with a google search even if you type in antek
[13:53:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ty
[13:53:09] <Thetawaves> why can't i find the column for the 34G in that table?
[13:53:09] <JT-Shop> http://antekinc.com/
[13:53:57] <JT-Shop> dang my 24v power supply is shorted in the CHNC...
[13:54:21] <Tom_itx> probably used heatshrink instead of grommets :)
[13:54:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Does the CHNC has fuses internally on the 24V line?
[13:55:06] <Jymmm> s/has/have/
[13:56:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: If there are 24V relays, pull them till no more short. I bet one might have arc'ed closed or some such nonsense.
[13:56:53] <JT-Shop> circuit breaker and the power supply has a fuse but it is not blown
[13:57:18] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: been there done that, the only thing that trips the breaker is the power supply
[13:57:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: 24V breaker?
[13:58:09] <JT-Shop> 120vac breaker
[13:58:27] <djdelorie> those tend to be slow-trip
[13:58:28] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: it is the power supply for sure
[13:58:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is the PS original to the chnc?
[13:58:37] <JT-Shop> yes
[13:59:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, well shit... that's an easy fix =) I thought you meant the OTHER side of the PS.
[13:59:29] <JT-Shop> what other side
[13:59:36] <Jymmm> The Dark side!
[13:59:41] <JT-Shop> I thought so
[13:59:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the 24V side of the PS, not the AC side.
[14:00:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Doesn't your new PS have 24V too?
[14:00:32] <JT-Shop> it's on the inside not the AC side or DC side
[14:00:59] <JT-Shop> the Antek is for the plasma and it has 5v and 12v
[14:01:06] <Jymmm> oh
[14:01:06] <Tom_itx> winding shorted?
[14:01:07] <JT-Shop> for/in
[14:01:37] <JT-Shop> dunnno Tom_itx
[14:01:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh, contact antek and see if you get qty discount =) LOL
[14:02:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Oh ghetto it together using wallworts temporarily =)
[14:03:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ghetto Swamp!
[14:03:09] <JT-Shop> nothing was cooperative enough to leave a smoke trail
[14:03:31] <JT-Shop> we should have some power supplies at the other shop on the shelf
[14:04:10] <JT-Shop> about 1/10 the size of this mod squad era power supply
[14:04:23] <Tom_itx> gotta lovem
[14:04:37] <Jymmm> mod who?
[14:04:58] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I don't need an Ankek power supply for the CHCN
[14:05:12] <JT-Shop> just a little 24v one for some relays
[14:05:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And your telling me this, why?
[14:06:36] <Tom_itx> telling you what?
[14:06:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: nm
[14:07:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I was kidding.
[14:07:18] <Tom_itx> send me a torroid and i'll use it
[14:07:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Fine, it's 1/2" across, now use it!
[14:08:32] <Jymmm> I've never understood why xfmr mfr's NEVER put specs on them.
[14:09:01] <Jymmm> I find zillions of torroids/xfmrs and it's a guess at what they are.
[14:09:48] <Thetawaves> only a few minutes left on the clock http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php
[14:10:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: how much of that heatsink you have left?
[14:10:56] <Thetawaves> T-0:47
[14:10:59] <Tom_itx> plenty
[14:11:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: width?
[14:11:10] <Tom_itx> 5"
[14:11:22] <Jymmm> Hmmm
[14:11:45] <andypugh> Hang on, I have watched James Bond films, it's impossible to stop a countdown!
[14:11:47] <JT-Shop> clock is stuck
[14:12:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: =)
[14:12:11] <Tom_itx> andypugh they are set to stop at .001 sec
[14:12:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: It's Bond, James Bond I thought.
[14:12:45] <andypugh> Evil Overlord rule 4. Have the bomb detonate at 7 on the timer.
[14:12:47] <JT-Shop> someone call Wernher he can count down in several languages
[14:13:13] <alex4nder> yoh
[14:13:40] <andypugh> If the rockets go up / who cares where they come down? / He's our kind of Nazi is Werner von Braun.
[14:14:26] <JT-Shop> yep
[14:18:36] <andypugh> Is there any update on what is going on? (other than the Twittter feed, as I am not a twit)
[14:23:17] <andypugh> T -13 mins
[14:24:43] <JT-Shop> what's a twit?
[14:26:08] * JT-Shop will let someone else answer how to make a CNC color by numbers kit...
[14:26:19] <andypugh> Someone who uses Twitter, I assume
[14:26:43] <JT-Shop> must be... wonder what a Twitter is?
[14:27:23] <Tom_itx> a twizzle of tweets
[14:27:58] <JT-Shop> do they taste like Quail?
[14:47:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: possum
[14:47:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: gritty and mean as hell!
[14:47:33] <Jymmm> at least momma is
[14:48:22] <Loetmichel> soo, a step further... 16V 20A Spindle power: done! 32V 3A Stepper power: done! now i have to make a 5V 0,5A supply for the Stepper driver and a 12V 0,5A suppy for the Limit switches. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13155
[14:50:20] <tom3p> i cant take advantage of this deal, but its 4 axis cnc edm with 16posn atc, servos and linear scales, 64amp p/s, dead clean, free delivery http://tinyurl.com/d82vzxu
[14:50:32] <tom3p> hope someone gets it
[14:51:05] <FinboySlick> tom3p: It is indeed quite lovely.
[14:51:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: or jsut use a PC power supply
[14:51:10] <djdelorie> holy pricetags batman!
[14:51:48] <tom3p> dirt cheap look around
[14:51:50] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the PC PSU is "downstairs"
[14:51:59] <Loetmichel> (in the other compartment)
[14:52:02] <tom3p> include erowa nose on the c axis
[14:52:17] <Loetmichel> i dont WANT to use the PC psu for the stepper power
[14:52:39] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Are you being picky again?
[14:53:20] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I've harvested 12/5V PS from external hdd cases before, perfect size
[14:53:24] <Loetmichel> and the 5V and 12V are no problem, the left Toroid Transofter has fitting windings already, just some rectifiers, son caps and a 7805/7812
[14:54:11] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Look for the old external scsi drive cases, they have an internal PS and a IEC connector on the back, usually fused and EMI/EFI filter built in.
[14:54:23] <Jymmm> EMI/RFI
[14:54:29] <Loetmichel> Jymmm / FinboySlick: no, not picky, but i dont want to use the PC PSU cause i can switch the PC on and off without activating the Stepper PSU
[14:54:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I'm not saying use THE pc ps, I said use A pc ps
[14:55:02] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the transformer is already there, why not use it?
[14:55:13] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: I wasn't even following the discussion... It just seemed like a good opportunity to pick on you.
[14:55:16] <Loetmichel> you mean: another one?
[14:55:22] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: xfmr is AC, you still need the rest
[14:55:58] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Look for the old external scsi drive cases, they have an internal PS and a IEC connector on the back, usually fused and EMI/RFI filter built in. Cheap too
[14:56:00] <Loetmichel> so what? like i said: some Capacitors, a 7805, a 7812, a little Heatsink, done ;-)
[14:56:11] <Loetmichel> all components i have here
[14:56:56] <Loetmichel> to be honest: i am no fan of SMPS, i avoid them where i can
[14:57:19] <Loetmichel> to bad overload capacity and to noisy dc ;-)
[14:57:25] <Jymmm> I undestand not liking sw ps,
[14:57:36] <Jymmm> Just a Q&D solution is all
[14:57:54] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: MORE dirty as the photo i just showed?
[14:58:17] <Loetmichel> that "§$"§&%( machine will bie CRAMMED with electronics down in the base ;-)
[14:58:21] <Loetmichel> be
[14:58:33] <FinboySlick> While on this topic though, how realistically small could one make a 20V DC 9Amp PSU?
[14:58:42] <FinboySlick> (from 120VAC.
[14:58:53] <Loetmichel> xformer or SMPS?
[14:58:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: NOTHIGN is that dirty, not even a $2 crack whore on 'get down and dirty for free day' =)
[14:59:12] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[14:59:51] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: I assume that a transformer would make it bigger.
[15:01:06] <Loetmichel> you assume richt
[15:01:08] <Loetmichel> right
[15:01:27] <FinboySlick> the design priorities would be 1, no electrical (and preferably acoustic) noise. 2 compact.
[15:01:50] <Loetmichel> oh, no noise.
[15:01:54] <Loetmichel> -> no smps
[15:02:09] <Loetmichel> the filters will be bbigger than the xformer ;-)
[15:02:24] <FinboySlick> Basically, I want to replace this: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/webca/LenovoPortal/en_CA/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=460&Code=0A36227&category-id=1BD1071447A5491FBFADF0D7ECCCFC10&hide_menu_area=yes
[15:02:30] <Loetmichel> do you have three phase?
[15:02:47] <Loetmichel> why?
[15:03:12] <FinboySlick> Because it wouldn't take much for it to be bigger and heavier than the laptop it powers.
[15:03:26] <FinboySlick> It's enormous.
[15:03:33] <Loetmichel> oh.
[15:04:01] <FinboySlick> I'm exagerating... But still, I'm having trouble finding laptop cases that can accomodate the PSU comfortably.
[15:04:09] <FinboySlick> And I figured it'd be an interesting electronics project.
[15:04:15] <Loetmichel> lets put it this way: i have to dismantle and modify Notebook PSUs in my daily job.
[15:04:16] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: There are MANY aftermarket PS like that. Do you really need 170W though?
[15:04:33] <FinboySlick> Yes, the laptop will get angry with 95W
[15:04:34] <Loetmichel> the PSUs are as cheap and compact as it gets
[15:05:19] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: OK. I assumed putting more time/money on it might help me.
[15:05:28] <Loetmichel> there is NOTHING to omit to make it smaller
[15:05:54] <FinboySlick> It's also hissing so I figured I'll need a replacement at some point.
[15:06:09] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: It's an i7, not under warranty still?
[15:06:22] <Loetmichel> hissing mustn be a sign of an early death
[15:06:56] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Yes. I'll have it replaced, but I would have enjoyed replacing it with something that doesn't weigh 2 pounds.
[15:07:16] <Loetmichel> most of the time the hissin is just a not perfect moulded HF transformer
[15:07:16] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: At 170W I doubt it.
[15:07:47] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: or at least not something you would trust too much.
[15:07:56] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I get that now... I figured I'd ask the guys who know that stuff first though.
[15:08:21] <Loetmichel> if you buy some chines stuff and open it you will get a nice laugh, though
[15:08:36] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: =)
[15:08:45] <FinboySlick> I see these picoATX PSUs within that sort of power range so I wondered.
[15:08:56] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Sad that's also 10% of the cost of the laptop too.
[15:09:11] <Loetmichel> here a charger for a keychain cam: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8991
[15:09:12] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Not that sad in my case.
[15:09:28] <Loetmichel> one has to admit: the chines have cojones.
[15:09:33] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: 10% for a PS, yeah it is.
[15:09:34] <FinboySlick> You throw in a Quadro 2000 and fast SSD and a few upgrades and it.
[15:09:36] <Loetmichel> to sell something like this ;-)
[15:09:45] <FinboySlick> ... ups the ratio.
[15:10:05] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: and how long does the abttery last?
[15:10:19] <Jymmm> 48 minutes?
[15:10:35] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Surprisingly good. I actually never got it below 50% in my current use.
[15:10:44] <FinboySlick> I estimate at least 5h.
[15:11:03] <Jymmm> O_o
[15:11:38] <FinboySlick> I don't typically have the laptop working that hard when it's on battery and it manages things well I guess.
[15:11:38] <Jymmm> A laptop that needs at 170W PS with a 9 cell battery lasts 5h???? I'm not seeign it.
[15:12:03] <Jymmm> maybe
[15:12:19] <FinboySlick> If I had it actually doing real work, it would probably devour the battery in an hour and a half.
[15:12:25] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: if the i7 cuts 3 cores and halves the clock in battery mode: why not?
[15:12:56] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: It also shuts down the nvidia video card and runs on the intel.
[15:13:52] <FinboySlick> It's definitely the nicest laptop I've had.
[15:14:01] <FinboySlick> All kinds of thoughtful goodies on it.
[15:14:32] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: If it can run THAT GOOD, why would it require a 170W PS. It just doens't makes sense.
[15:14:46] <FinboySlick> That likely I'll never use, like the wireless hdmi whatever.
[15:14:50] <Jymmm> 120W, 95W ok. But 170W
[15:15:56] <Jymmm> My Lenovo laptop will run on 9VDC, but it won't charge till 15.1VDC, and comes with a 20VDC PS. It's just weird.
[15:18:07] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: horray for widerange SMPS ;)
[15:18:48] <Loetmichel> the internal Swtichers can step the 9V up and down to the needed voltages
[15:19:13] <Loetmichel> but the battery is charged directly from the psu input
[15:19:30] <Jymmm> No, I used a bench test PS, not a PC PS
[15:19:35] <Loetmichel> so the batter can only be charged if the voltage there is higher than the battery voltage
[15:19:50] <Jymmm> The battery is 12VDC
[15:19:53] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the INTERNAL SMPS in the Notebook
[15:20:02] <Loetmichel> i dont think so
[15:20:10] <Jymmm> It says right on the label
[15:20:42] <Loetmichel> its either 10,8V or 14.4V
[15:20:56] <Loetmichel> or is it a PB battery?
[15:21:08] <Loetmichel> (HOW old is the laptop? ;-)
[15:23:03] <tom3p> your Smithy config directory has a load of goodies, eg add an MPG to a 5i20 ( see Naiky.hal); f
[15:23:08] <tom3p> or laser based tool setter, see Keyence files.
[15:23:09] <tom3p> and what was ez-trol anyaways, a custom Smithy-linuxcnc front end? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkFLhIU0SCw
[15:23:28] <tom3p> i just used the NAIKY as a model for my Fanuc MPG, works great
[15:26:23] <JT-Shop> dang it was a shu-shu
[15:26:32] <andypugh> Hmm?
[15:26:52] <Loetmichel> oh MAN! i am lucky my wife is in GB at the moment... i (thoughtless) lit my cigarrette in the workshop (= part of the appartment) instad of gount on the balcony...
[15:27:13] <Loetmichel> THAT would have got me in truible if she was here ;-)
[15:27:31] <skunkworks__> eztrol was a closed front end to linuxcnc.
[15:27:40] <FinboySlick> Blackmail material.
[15:27:57] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: dont think so
[15:28:28] <Loetmichel> 'cause: as long as nothing angers her nose on friday when she comes back everything is fine
[15:28:49] <djdelorie> blow up a few capacitors and resistors to hide the smell? ;-)
[15:29:34] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: just open the balcony doors on both sides of the house
[15:29:40] <Loetmichel> the wind does the rest ;-)
[15:29:48] <tom3p> skunkworks ah, it looked like it was hooked to the Synergy cad system
[15:30:18] <skunkworks__> actually - I remember something about that... It could have been
[15:33:22] <tom3p> anyway i just wanted people to now, browsing the code body, even the configs, shows up a lotta cool stuff
[15:33:28] <tom3p> know
[15:34:03] <tom3p> and thx to the Smithy guys ( Ray & Jeff i spose are in there )
[15:35:47] <skunkworks__> neat
[15:38:57] <skunkworks__> also matt
[15:50:26] <FinboySlick> Anyone familiar with the Emco Compact 5 ?
[15:51:00] <FinboySlick> Wondering if it can be had in north america... Or if there's an equivalent.
[15:51:00] <tom3p> i meant matt (doh!)
[15:51:12] <cradek> I think they have ballscrews and are kind of cool
[15:51:21] <cradek> teeny tiny ballscrews
[15:51:34] <FinboySlick> They seem very nice.
[15:51:50] <FinboySlick> And just the right size for me.
[15:52:16] <tom3p> emco maier is from novi michigan
[15:53:17] <tom3p> make that 'also from'
[15:55:20] <andypugh> Not ballscrew, going ny the pictures: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emco-Compact-5-lathe-with-milling-accessory-extras-made-in-Austria-Free-Shipping-/251039723482
[15:56:09] <andypugh> But here is/was a Compact 5CNC: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page11.html
[15:57:36] <cradek> andypugh: that's not a cnc - I'm pretty darn sure the cnc one is ballscrew
[15:58:04] <andypugh> cradek: Second link?
[15:58:18] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:58:29] <cradek> first
[15:58:36] <Thetawaves> hip hip horray! i've got two job offers
[15:58:38] <cradek> the 5PC is cool
[15:58:50] <cradek> all you need is an XT to run it
[15:59:20] <andypugh> I am vaguely thinking of making an Emco style toolpost for my lathe.
[15:59:23] <cradek> weird - that's not an XT keyboard
[15:59:49] <andypugh> But then it would be a cheap, rubbish, Chinese lathe with even more time and money thrown at it.
[16:00:11] <andypugh> cradek: Your geekiness is showing
[16:01:05] <cradek> :-P
[16:03:23] <andypugh> I feel under-intellectual. EBo is talking about "higher order osculants" and I am tallking in terms of "jerk the accel down if you are about to miss the endpoint"
[16:11:19] <cradek> if it helps, I have no idea what he's talking about either
[16:11:45] <andypugh> It does help, because you ahve actually written a trajectory planner.
[16:11:45] <cradek> on the other hand, he's talking while you're writing code
[16:12:20] <andypugh> talking of which, is t * t * t a sensible way to cube?
[16:12:39] <cradek> yes many people have talked about writing planners, while my code has been making machines run for years
[16:12:50] <cradek> looks sensible enough to me
[16:13:03] <JT-Shop> :-)
[16:14:56] <cradek> yishin is the first one who's actually presented code for testing and seems interested in getting it working right
[16:16:43] <andypugh> I need to get into the habit of typing "if (". I always have to go back and bracket the condition.
[16:17:36] <cradek> if, if(, and (if all show up in languages I use...
[16:17:58] <cradek> thankfully I can usually avoid if {
[16:18:13] <andypugh> if { would be?
[16:18:18] <cradek> tcl
[16:18:22] <andypugh> Eeew
[16:18:55] <andypugh> Hmm, what is actually required, in C, in if (cond=1) {z = pi ;}
[16:19:07] <andypugh> I think I can drop at least some of {;}
[16:19:17] <cradek> you can lose the {}
[16:19:28] <cradek> you might mean cond==1, but not necessarily
[16:20:34] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I do that a lot too. Luckily the compiler politely suggests that I might want to parenthesise the assignment used as a condition. (rather than saying "you idiot, this isn't BASIC"
[16:31:01] <asdfasd> hi guys
[16:31:13] <andypugh> Hi
[16:32:03] <JT-Shop> I'm sure I could turned those two flat head bolts from 3/4" bar stock faster than it took me to make a die and hot forge them...
[16:32:46] <andypugh> JT-Shop: True, but the texture would have been wrong.
[16:33:03] <JT-Shop> yes the top of the head would not look cannon-like
[16:33:36] <JT-Shop> I did get some great experience in forging 101 today
[16:35:08] <andypugh> 101?
[16:35:40] <JT-Shop> hmm a primer class like school...
[16:35:59] <JT-Shop> but it was the school of hard knocks I went to
[16:37:28] <andypugh> Ah, I thought it was some sort of metal alloy grade.
[16:41:46] <andypugh> Argh! Sombody on the internet is wrong! http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061104024241AA5YISI
[16:41:55] <andypugh> And it is 6 years too late to fix it.
[16:43:17] <JT-Shop> crap
[16:44:09] * JT-Shop goes to wander around at Caswell coatings for some plating material
[16:47:26] <andypugh> The "EN" in "EN8" is "Emergency Number" not "Euronorm". The confusion comes from the fact that all British Standards are now BS EN (which is a Euronormed British Standard). The EN-numbered steels are a set of standard alloys from WWII, which rather stuck, despite being abandoned in the 1980s. For example EN24 is now 817M40 and that would be SAE 4340 in the US.
[16:47:51] <JT-Shop> I see
[16:48:34] <andypugh> (I had to look up the US number on www.matweb.com )
[16:49:31] <JT-Shop> dang brass plating kit doesn't come with a power supply http://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/brass-plating-kits/brp265.html
[16:52:08] <andypugh> brass plating is evil and wrong. :-)
[16:52:22] <JT-Shop> why do you say that?
[16:52:26] <ds3> how does one plate brass? thought you cannot plate an alloy?
[16:52:46] <andypugh> Because it is purely a way to pretend that something is made from something it isn't.
[16:52:47] <JT-Shop> brass plate steel
[16:53:32] <JT-Shop> well sometimes it works out better to plate steel rather than paint it
[16:53:52] <andypugh> So use chrome or nickel, a functional plating.
[16:54:10] <andypugh> Or use solid brass.
[16:54:14] <JT-Shop> it wouldn't look right
[16:54:30] <JT-Shop> could not find solid brass acme nuts and screws
[16:54:46] <andypugh> You might have to make then, it's true.
[16:54:48] <JT-Shop> the rest could have been made from brass
[16:55:13] <andypugh> Though I think that the elevation screw would have been wrought iron.
[16:55:38] <djdelorie> brass? or bronze? which is better for high-wear surfaces?
[16:56:08] <andypugh> Bronze, generally.
[16:56:11] <JT-Shop> yes, I think the elevation screw was made from iron
[16:57:54] <JT-Shop> hmm bronze plating kits are 1/2 the cost of brass plating kits
[16:58:45] <JT-Shop> anyhow I just want to put a tiny bit of bling on it :-)
[17:07:55] <elmo401> bling sells better, too
[17:18:13] <ThadiusB> Hey everyone. When I load a file to be cut into Linuxcnc, it shows the apparent dimensions, however they are way off from what the machine physically cuts. For instance, have a part thats 5inches, reads as such in linuxcnc but when i goto cut it goes way beyond that. I dont recall messing with anything, it only recently started happening.
[17:20:46] <cradek> sounds like your scale (steps per inch) is wrong
[17:21:09] <cradek> either you changed those settings or something about your hardware, perhaps microstep settings
[17:21:45] <andypugh> Could be a jumper or DIP switch on the drive.
[17:22:07] <andypugh> Or a visit from the metric leadscrew fairy.
[17:22:26] <cradek> how far is it off? if it's a factor of 25.4 then it's just a gcode problem
[17:22:33] <ThadiusB> way off
[17:22:38] <cradek> haha
[17:22:41] <cradek> can you be more specific?
[17:23:08] <ThadiusB> well I didnt measure exactly, but a five inch part roughly has my machine traveling in excess of double the distance
[17:23:13] <djdelorie> it is bigger/smaller "off", or "not where I told it to be" off ?
[17:23:30] <cradek> you should probably measure it
[17:23:33] <andypugh> Not exactly double the distance?
[17:23:44] <cradek> incremental jogs and a dial indicator are good for that
[17:24:52] <ThadiusB> i'll check the jumps on my drive, and double check in the ini, and of course get a measurement as well
[17:26:29] <ThadiusB> quick question before i head out to the shop, between driver settings for full 1/2 1/4 or whichever on Microstepping, does linuxcnc need to coincide, or set to zero?
[17:27:38] <andypugh> No, you can just re-home. It doesn't matter what random units historical steps were in
[17:28:04] <ThadiusB> ty
[17:59:14] <skunkworks__> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/ata2isp/main.html
[17:59:58] * JT-Shop still can't figure out what Andy said...
[18:09:16] <archivist> I like the last line "Well if you don't gloat whats the point!?"
[18:11:48] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:13:25] <archivist> but he has used the ide port in a way not intended
[18:15:13] <JT-Shop> archivist: I just had to dress up a tiny thread on a model steam engine and my needle files looked like giant files under the microscope... what do you use to file tiny things?
[18:15:45] <archivist> tiny files :)
[18:16:29] <skunkworks__> logger[psha]:
[18:16:29] <logger[psha]> skunkworks__: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-04-30.html
[18:16:39] <Tom_itx> can't believe rue's site made a post here :)
[18:16:58] <archivist> the normal needle files are a bit big, watch and clock making ones are available in smaller sizes
[18:17:07] <Tom_itx> that made it on hackaday btw
[18:17:20] <skunkworks__> I saw it on cnczone
[18:18:45] <archivist> JT-Shop, crap website but the files are good http://www.vallorbe.com/Standard.php?p=510&m=4&l=3
[18:21:47] <JT-Shop> archivist: thanks
[18:22:01] <archivist> JT-Shop, I also got some second hand files from clock fairs etc
[18:22:28] <JT-Shop> not much of that going on in my neck of the woods :-)
[18:24:12] <archivist> one thing clockmakers do is be careful what the files are used for
[18:25:11] <JT-Shop> so not to damage them I assume
[18:25:31] <archivist> yup, getting a mirror finish with a pivot file is a bit of an art
[18:26:10] <archivist> really its part file and part burnisher
[18:26:57] <djdelorie> and part micro-hand-plane
[18:27:46] <archivist> JT-Shop, the smaller files are the "escapement files"
[18:29:09] <andypugh> Designed for baking into pies?
[18:29:45] <archivist> so a watchmakers escapement file should be ok for sharpening a gnats cock
[18:30:40] <JT-Shop> ok, I see now
[18:31:13] <skunkworks__> they need to be sharpened?
[18:32:01] <archivist> a "gnats cock" is a british standard small measure
[18:32:58] <JT-Shop> ok, mine are for sharpening the beak of Alaskan mosquito's
[18:35:51] <andypugh> archivist: http://sciaroidea.info/sites/sciaroidea.info/files/imagecache/preview/images/Ectrepesthoneura_gracilis-HT-BMNHE254345-male_genitalia-dorsal-20x.jpg
[18:36:31] <archivist> home brew burnisher is a bit of hss that you rub on an oilstone to get the lines side ways on the metal
[18:40:36] <djdelorie> in woodworking, a "burnisher" is something different - a mirror smooth bit of extremely hard steel you use to turn an edge on a scraper.
[18:40:50] <djdelorie> stupid words. Mean one thing already! :-P
[18:40:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/sch/jtg1969/m.html?item=160773149605&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&_trksid=p4340.l2562
[18:40:58] <r00t4rd3d> ^^ very good ebayer
[18:41:04] <r00t4rd3d> if you need bits
[18:41:58] <r00t4rd3d> I ordered two bits and he send them in a case :)
[18:44:58] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Be cautios about buying an aftermarket seat: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/30/man-being-hard-on-bmw-for-20-month-erection/
[18:46:24] <andypugh> djdelorie: I think both tools are doing the same thing, being very hard and pushing metal about.
[18:46:43] <djdelorie> yup
[18:47:06] <andypugh> I think that agate burnishers are used in some other craft.
[18:47:15] <djdelorie> except that in woodworking, you never touch the burnisher with any kind of abrasive
[18:47:35] <djdelorie> the burnisher isn't the cutting tool itself, it's used to form the cutting tool
[18:47:38] <andypugh> Ah, yes, leatherwork.
[18:48:10] <djdelorie> one cheap source of WW burnishers are car engine valve stems
[18:48:32] <andypugh> Yes, but your woodworking burnisher doesmuch the same to the scraper as the watchmaking one does to the pivot.
[18:49:02] <JT-Shop> he just needs to go to McDonalds and spill some coffee on his problem...
[18:49:23] <djdelorie> andypugh: really? It sounded like a watchmaker's burnisher is a miniature file
[18:49:24] <archivist> pivot file in use http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-VVfda1ns
[18:49:28] <Tom_itx> then sue McDonalds for having hot coffee
[18:50:30] <archivist> the file has a cutting end and a burnishing end
[18:51:11] <JT-Shop> the bow is cool
[18:51:28] <JT-Shop> didn't they use something similar on early lathes
[18:51:34] <Jymmm> It's McDonald's "Hot Coffee" all over again... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57423319-10391704/nutella-health-claims-net-$3.05-million-settlement-in-class-action-lawsuit/?part=webmd-cbsnews
[18:52:09] <archivist> I hate doing it on a support like that as the support can act as a grinder screwing your new surface
[18:52:53] <JT-Shop> from the chips?
[18:53:01] <djdelorie> WW burnishers are used to bend over a sharp edge: http://woodgears.ca/scraper/burnishing_angle.png
[18:53:12] <djdelorie> they don't cut or polish, they just push
[18:53:27] <Tecan> http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2007/06/01/lolpython.html
[18:54:41] <andypugh> djdelorie: I think that the clock pivot burnisher is mainly pushing metal about to make a smooth and hard surface.
[18:55:06] <archivist> JT-Shop, yes
[18:55:07] <djdelorie> that sounds plausible, unless there's polishing compound involved
[18:55:10] <andypugh> Smearing out the cut-marks from the file
[18:55:40] <djdelorie> it *sounded* abrasive in that video. WW burnishers are nearly silent
[18:56:21] <djdelorie> maybe "burnishing" is a class of operations, not a specific one. Stupid English! ;-)
[18:59:06] <toast2> burnishing is a metal forming operation that causes the surface irregularities to flow into one another
[18:59:19] <toast2> andypugh is correct
[18:59:34] <toast2> i.e. the high points get crushed and fill in the nearby low areas
[18:59:48] <Tecan> is modbus ethernet based ?
[19:00:56] <PCW> can be
[19:01:57] <PCW> can also be async serial
[19:02:40] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/200751223390?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[19:02:50] <r00t4rd3d> i got 3 of them today in the mail, pretty sweet
[19:06:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos_: I just found out that the industrial surplus place out here is no more.
[19:06:46] <Tom_itx> not boeing surplus?
[19:07:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Where's that located?
[19:07:04] <Tom_itx> i guess that's in seattle
[19:07:09] <Tom_itx> we had one here for a while
[19:07:18] <Jymmm> ah, no in San Jose
[19:07:31] <Jymmm> It was the LAST industrial surplus place around too.
[19:08:49] <r00t4rd3d> Tom_itx, you mess with mini itx boards alot?
[19:08:58] <Tom_itx> not alot
[19:09:02] <Tom_itx> i have one
[19:09:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/boards/productDetail.jsp?productLine=1&id=81&tabs=1
[19:09:10] <r00t4rd3d> i have that one
[19:09:19] <r00t4rd3d> I am wondering if its going to give me issues
[19:09:23] <Tom_itx> mine is pretty dated now
[19:09:29] <r00t4rd3d> so is mine
[19:09:33] <r00t4rd3d> via m10000
[19:09:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/itx/itx_thumb_index.php
[19:10:02] <Tom_itx> MII 10000
[19:10:31] <Tom_itx> this is all i use it for
[19:10:44] <r00t4rd3d> how you do that with no parallel port?
[19:10:50] <Tom_itx> it has one
[19:11:09] <Tom_itx> i have an atom for linuxcnc
[19:11:33] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom_index.php
[19:12:00] <r00t4rd3d> does it work good?
[19:12:06] <jdhNC> how much space do you use on the SS drive?
[19:12:18] <Tom_itx> i'm not using the ssd currently
[19:12:26] <Tom_itx> there's a hdd in it
[19:12:48] <r00t4rd3d> what model atom is that?
[19:12:50] <Tom_itx> i loaded it on the ssd onece though
[19:12:58] <Tom_itx> d525
[19:12:59] <jdhNC> I stuck a salvaged 160gb disk in my atom
[19:13:25] <Tom_itx> not sure what size it has, i think a 320g
[19:13:55] <Tom_itx> ha, yeah: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom2.jpg
[19:14:13] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECS-Atom-CPU-Dual-Core-D525-Intel-NM10-A-V-L-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-/230779575541?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bb88dcf5
[19:14:16] <r00t4rd3d> 52 bucks :/
[19:15:05] <jdhNC> ECS?
[19:15:32] <ReadError> sounds kinda bootleg
[19:15:39] <ReadError> rather go with the intel one for a bit more
[19:15:49] <jdhNC> intel is $75 and known good.
[19:15:49] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[19:15:51] <r00t4rd3d> newbs
[19:15:58] <r00t4rd3d> intel is the chipset
[19:16:06] <ReadError> right
[19:16:10] <ReadError> but they make a board as well
[19:16:20] <ReadError> newb ;p
[19:16:24] <jdhNC> heh, newb.
[19:16:33] <Tom_L> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[19:16:40] <Tom_L> that's the one i have
[19:16:49] <jdhNC> me too, so it must be good.
[19:17:16] <ReadError> what kinda jitter you getting?
[19:17:19] <Tom_L> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[19:17:23] <Tom_L> with that box
[19:17:26] <Tom_L> psu included
[19:18:06] <andypugh> D525MW is about 6k jitter
[19:18:20] <r00t4rd3d> is that bad?
[19:18:27] <jdhNC> I can get mine higher than that.
[19:18:29] <asdfasd> are these boards suitable for driving motors via LPT, if the video is integrated?
[19:18:30] <andypugh> It's excellent
[19:18:43] <andypugh> asdfasd: Yes, absolutely
[19:18:53] <Tom_L> i'd suggest mesa cards though
[19:18:57] <r00t4rd3d> i fking buying one
[19:19:32] <andypugh> Tom_L: Aye, so would I, but only really because 25 pins isn't really enough.
[19:19:41] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d; you finished the cnc router?
[19:19:43] <Tom_L> yup
[19:20:01] <jdhNC> I'm only using 24 pins on my yi43
[19:20:11] <Tom_L> so far
[19:20:44] <JT-Shop> yep I have a D525MW and get sub 10k latency... nice compact board
[19:20:55] <Tom_L> add a pendant, touch probe, coffee maker timer....
[19:21:09] <JT-Shop> hey your good to go then
[19:21:10] <jdhNC> can you use a mesa3x20 in linuxcnc?
[19:21:34] <PCW> Yes its supported
[19:22:04] <PCW> not that it makes a lot of sense
[19:22:17] <ReadError> so lower latancy = faster cuts with less lost steps?
[19:22:29] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, not yet. Close.
[19:22:38] <ReadError> 1 of Aluminum 6061-T6511 Square Bar, AMS QQ-A-200/8, ASTM B221, 1" Thick, 1" Width, 36" Length $20.35
[19:22:50] <ReadError> 1 of Aluminum 6061-T6 Sheet, ASTM B209, AMS 4025, 1/8" Thick, 12" Width, 12" Length $19.73
[19:22:58] <ReadError> 1 of Acetal Sheet, Black, 1/8" Thick, 12" Width, 24" Length $23.43
[19:23:00] <ReadError> awwwwwwww yea
[19:23:08] <r00t4rd3d> I need one more paycheck to get it going and finally be able to cut and try to cut something
[19:23:12] <asdfasd> Im asking for the shared video because I read that: Many onboard video chips cause bad realtime performance. The ones that use some of the system RAM for video ("shared memory") are the worst
[19:23:15] <ReadError> pics r00t4rd3d?
[19:23:19] <asdfasd> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Hardware_Requirements
[19:23:25] <Tom_L> ReadError you should visit my scrap yard
[19:23:27] <r00t4rd3d> i dont have any new ones atm
[19:24:07] <PCW> I think that (local RAM video causeing high latency) used to be true but is no longer true
[19:24:19] <roycroft> so i got the kiln today - it's gonna work out fine
[19:24:25] <ReadError> i figure the aluminum bar will last me a while
[19:24:28] <roycroft> it doesn't have a thermostat, but it has a duty cycle timer
[19:24:31] <roycroft> and a pyrometer
[19:24:39] <ReadError> i can cut it in to segments
[19:24:44] <skunkworks__> pcw: that is what I am seeing also.. (onboard video not causing problems)
[19:24:48] <roycroft> so i will run it at 100%, and when it approaches the temp i want i can dial it down
[19:25:02] <roycroft> and adjust it so that it holds the temperature i want, so i can soak big pieces
[19:25:04] <skunkworks__> *on newer motherboards
[19:25:29] <asdfasd> that is nice then...
[19:25:54] <PCW> Probably older shared RAM video was a bandwidth bottleneck but DDR SDRAM has enough to go around
[19:27:02] <asdfasd> I tried several boards (a bit old, but DDR) with integrated video they dont work with mach3
[19:27:15] <asdfasd> but I didnt have a chance to try many with emc2
[19:28:35] <PCW> you probably wouldn't know until you run the latency test as its video driver related as well
[19:29:35] <PCW> but both the Atoms and the Hudsons seem to be fine with integrated video
[19:29:43] <shdhdfghd> If you have it you can try but if you are looking to buy.... then it will be a risk
[19:30:43] <andypugh> ReadError: Lower latency = lower step-rate granularity. It's rare to run out of absolute stepper speed (except with enormous numbers of microsteps) but at high step rates you might be asking for instantaneous 20% speed increases between 5-thread-cycles-per step and 4-thread-cycles-per-step. A hardware generator (Pico or Mesa) has megahertz rather than khz base frequency.
[19:32:32] <PCW> if brute computing performance is not an issue, the Atoms seem pretty reliable latency wise (someone just posted the latest Atom 2800 numbers and they looked good as well)
[19:35:10] <PCW> The Intel Atom motherboards I should say (at least there seems to be more experience the the Intel MBs)
[19:35:37] <Tom_itx> i think they're price popular
[19:36:16] <JT-Shop> and fit in a bread box
[19:37:14] <Tom_itx> i put a backup server on mine
[19:37:49] <Jymmm> PCW: Intel brand or intel chipsets?
[19:38:01] <PCW> intel brand
[19:38:36] <Jymmm> My biggest gripe with intel barand desktop boards is they ALWAYS limit ram capacity.
[19:38:45] <A0Sheds> we are starting to use Gentoo + Linuxcnc + AMD APU's for everything
[19:39:59] <Jymmm> PCW: I kinda like alex4nder's thin atom mbo, but I also like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153212
[19:40:05] <A0Sheds> memleak is working on a Gentoo + RTAI + Linuxcnc install script, should be posted sometime soon
[19:40:18] <andypugh> Jymmm: But then LinuxCNC doesn't need much RAM, at all.
[19:40:35] <PCW> the dn2800t looks nice power wise (~10W) a noticeable improvement on the d525
[19:40:39] <ReadError> anyone compiled custom modules for the RTAI kernel?
[19:40:46] <ReadError> ive only done kernels from scratch
[19:40:54] <ReadError> not this .deb jibba jabba stuff
[19:41:19] <andypugh> ReadError: define "custom modules"
[19:41:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: No, but cad/drawing does.
[19:41:24] <ReadError> wifi
[19:41:35] <ReadError> no standard module compiled
[19:41:56] <andypugh> Ah, kernel driver modules?
[19:42:05] <andypugh> Yes, but really no.
[19:42:39] <ReadError> i figured i could DL the source
[19:42:43] <ReadError> patch, rebuild
[19:42:45] <jdhNC> I just pulled up a web page and all the ad links have that mini-itx case tom posted
[19:42:48] <ReadError> but jeeze thats a PITA
[19:42:59] <andypugh> Well, that's not really "custom"
[19:43:21] <andypugh> I thought you meant writing the driver from scratch :-)
[19:43:35] <ReadError> no
[19:43:40] <ReadError> but its not compiled for this kernel
[19:43:53] <ReadError> aka, no precompiled binary/module
[19:44:02] <andypugh> That shouldn't be all that hard then. Is there a makefile?
[19:46:17] <andypugh> This motion planner looked really hard until I tried to make it move at negative velocities, then all my maths breaks down.
[19:49:50] <PCW> Ah theres a d525 follow on: D2700MUD
[19:50:29] <PCW> also d2800 based so a little lower power and perhaps a little faster
[19:53:10] <PCW> also Intel MAC like the DN2800MT which is nice
[19:53:36] <andypugh> MAC?
[19:53:48] <PCW> Ethernet
[19:54:08] <PCW> Media Access Controller
[19:54:29] <andypugh> Ah, OK. Could be useful. ;-)
[19:55:08] <PCW> looks just like an updated D525
[19:55:57] <PCW> http://www.mo-co-so.com/Intel-D2700MUD-Mount-Union-DVI-Mini-ITX-Motherbo-p/mcs-int-mud.htm
[19:57:29] <Jymmm> PCW: http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXDN2800MT-Desktop-Board-DN2800MT/dp/B006XFIK08
[19:57:40] <Jymmm> PCW: Runs on 8-19V directly
[19:58:05] <andypugh> Now that's a big win
[19:58:13] <Jymmm> and half height
[19:58:33] <Jymmm> thank alex4nder for that find, and he says he's getting 5000 jiter on it
[19:59:27] <PCW> also lower power and a little faster than the previous Atoms
[19:59:39] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: That one Jymmm just posted will save you the price of a PSU
[19:59:59] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXDN2800MT-Desktop-Board-DN2800MT/dp/B006XFIK08
[20:01:13] <Valen> sounds like it wants to be a carputer
[20:01:37] <Jymmm> car, embedded, custom application, vesa mounted, etc
[20:01:58] <Valen> outside a car a regulated 12v supply is easy to come by
[20:02:03] <Valen> generally
[20:02:26] <PCW> too bad they wont run on 24V
[20:02:30] <Jymmm> Valen: 8-19VDC, who cares, just grab one and 80% would work =)
[20:02:32] <andypugh> It would be an unusual CNC machine without 12V
[20:02:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: 24 instead of 12 maybe
[20:02:51] <djdelorie> there's no 12v in mine
[20:02:56] <Valen> andypugh: though would you hook the controller to that 12v? ;->
[20:03:04] <andypugh> My touchscreeen needs 12V
[20:03:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: It has LVDS connector too
[20:03:24] <djdelorie> 120v, sure, but no 12v...
[20:03:48] <Jymmm> eh 24 to 12 step down pcb, easy enough
[20:04:43] <Jymmm> hell 24 to 19 if it's adjustable =)
[20:06:54] <r00t4rd3d> i dont see a parallel port
[20:07:03] <r00t4rd3d> does it have a header for one i guess?
[20:07:08] <PCW> it has a header
[20:07:11] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: It's on a header on the mobo, along with two serial ports
[20:07:58] <andypugh> I think I want to withdraw my previous statement.
[20:08:02] <Jymmm> there is also a connector on the mobo for internal power connection if you dont want to use the external coax connector.
[20:08:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: whys that?
[20:08:31] <PCW> if you have (and have room for) a standard PS the D2700MUD may make more sense
[20:08:46] <andypugh> I was making a statement about all CNC controllers, despite limited experience of any but my own.
[20:09:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: oh, and the logs never lie. You said we have proof! =)
[20:09:12] <andypugh> I have a PicoPSU in mine, but that needs 12V
[20:09:49] <Valen> andypugh: 12 or 13?
[20:10:18] <Jymmm> Valen: My PicoITX want 12V, no battery to charge.
[20:10:36] <andypugh> 12V but I don't think it is particularly fussy
[20:12:01] <andypugh> Hmm, I think I need to consider both roots of this quadratic equation, for both possible jerk signs. That's a job for tomorrow then.
[20:12:11] <andypugh> Night all.
[20:12:18] <Valen> that sounds like the start of a bad porno
[20:12:24] <PCW> 'nite
[20:15:53] <r00t4rd3d> so what do you power that with, a 9v battery?
[20:16:44] <r00t4rd3d> I got some tenergy's and a battery holder that puts them in series and they output 12v
[20:17:09] <PCW> that would work (~1A)
[20:18:04] <r00t4rd3d> hmm
[20:20:09] <r00t4rd3d> im about to test my m10000
[20:20:24] <r00t4rd3d> and see what the latency test says
[20:20:42] <r00t4rd3d> it will probably say : GTFO!
[20:21:12] <r00t4rd3d> it runs windows 7 okay though
[20:22:22] <r00t4rd3d> i really hate ubuntu too
[20:22:39] <PCW> some earlier VIA MBs with Unichrome graphics were OK with LinuxCNC so maybe its OK
[20:22:41] <djdelorie> there's a zillion other linux distros, pick something else :-)
[20:22:53] <r00t4rd3d> thats what i got, unichrome
[20:23:20] <r00t4rd3d> djdelorie, Im not sure what im going to do for software yet
[20:24:07] <r00t4rd3d> so the live cd with everything i will have to suffer through
[20:24:29] <elmo000> why suffer?
[20:24:37] <r00t4rd3d> ubuntu sucks balls
[20:25:12] <elmo000> indeed
[20:25:27] <elmo000> so use Debian.
[20:25:39] <elmo000> apt-get emc :)
[20:31:29] <r00t4rd3d> whats the best way to do the latency test
[20:31:47] <r00t4rd3d> rm -f / ?
[20:32:20] <Tom_itx> run it from the menu?
[20:32:23] <roycroft> watch four hd pr0n films simultaneously
[20:32:54] <roycroft> while calculating pi to 10^17 decimal places
[20:33:36] <Valen> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda bs=1M is much more effective r00t4rd3d
[20:33:53] <Valen> (note don't actually do that)
[20:34:06] <roycroft> oh, you're no fun anymore
[20:36:34] <r00t4rd3d> my nick is a lie
[20:43:03] <Tecan> http://linuxappfinder.com/blog/create_photo_mosaics_with_metapixel
[20:50:47] <joe9> ReadError: you around?
[20:50:54] <ReadError> sup
[20:50:55] <ReadError> joe9,
[20:51:01] <ReadError> want to shoot for like
[20:51:07] <ReadError> 1pm tomorrow?
[20:51:12] <joe9> ReadError: i am back in atlanta.
[20:51:14] <ReadError> should be least amount of traffic
[20:51:19] <joe9> ReadError: ok, sounds good to me.
[20:51:28] <joe9> readerror: where?
[20:51:45] <ReadError> can you get down by where i work?
[20:51:49] <ReadError> we stagger our lunch to keep ppl there
[20:51:56] <joe9> ok.
[20:52:00] <ReadError> but if i tell them like 1
[20:52:06] <ReadError> then ill lock it in
[20:52:11] <ReadError> but ill be on IRC in the morning
[20:52:22] <joe9> yeah, let's stick with 1pm.
[20:57:26] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/sign.jpg
[20:58:39] <pfred1> why is diesel more than everything else?
[20:58:49] <pfred1> I always thought diesel was less refined
[20:59:45] <toastydeath> http://www.factcheck.org/2008/05/diesel-fuel-and-gasoline-costs/
[21:00:06] <r00t4rd3d> I went to Applications, CNC, Latency Test and click and nothing happen. Is there a log file or something I have to look at?
[21:00:24] <pfred1> when that well blew up in the gulf and filled the Atlantic ocean with oil i became suspicious about this whole oil is a limited resource conspiracy
[21:00:25] <r00t4rd3d> or does it run in the background, should i run from a term?
[21:00:33] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d check /var/log/syslog
[21:01:17] <pfred1> tail -f /var/log/syslog
[21:02:09] <pfred1> you should run that command from a term
[21:05:26] <r00t4rd3d> Im getting a APIC error, available but not enabled :/
[21:06:01] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d you think that is what is causing you problems?
[21:06:24] <r00t4rd3d> i dont see how but thats the error that comes up when i click the latency test
[21:06:41] <pfred1> nothing in syslog huh?
[21:06:48] <r00t4rd3d> yeah, thats it
[21:07:38] <r00t4rd3d> i think i seen something in the quickstart about apic
[21:08:01] <pfred1> well at least you have something to investigate now
[21:08:20] <pfred1> you can check /var/log/messages too but it is a lot like syslog
[21:08:22] <elmo000> http://www.industrycortex.com/
[21:09:31] * pfred1 is so happy!
[21:19:20] <r00t4rd3d> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test
[21:19:24] <r00t4rd3d> 4.1.3
[21:37:11] <pfred1> where is that Jymmm rat?
[21:37:26] <pfred1> telling me my ethernet controller is no good
[21:37:55] <pfred1> Realtek is da bomb!
[21:39:51] <ReadError> lol
[21:40:04] <ReadError> realtek always works
[21:40:13] <pfred1> ReadError fuckin a right!
[21:40:29] <ReadError> linux, osx, win....
[21:40:43] <ReadError> esxi host
[21:41:02] <pfred1> that Jymmm was trying to feed me some cock and bull story that Realtek had issues in Linux
[21:43:47] <alex4nder> hey
[21:45:37] <pfred1> hey you
[21:45:58] <pfred1> one more of these and I'll be crawling across the floor
[21:46:31] <pfred1> http://www.dogfish.com/brews-spirits/the-brews/occassional-rarities/burton-baton.htm
[21:46:57] <pfred1> aww heck it is only 10.0 ABV that isn't so bad
[21:49:15] * ReadError no like DFH
[21:49:26] <ReadError> two hearted is where its at
[22:08:46] <pfred1> ReadError DFH doesn't send good beer out of state
[22:17:32] <r00t4rd3d> RTAI[hal]: ERROR, LOCAL APIC CONFIGURED BUT NOT AVAILABLE/ENABLED.
[22:17:59] <r00t4rd3d> latency test error but linuxcnc starts okau
[22:19:40] <pfred1> until you fire up the rtai module you're not really doing the LinuxCNC thing
[22:20:26] <pfred1> once that module kicks in things change
[22:31:16] <Tecan> os[Linux 3.0.0-13-lowlatency x86_64] distro[Debian wheezy/sid] cpu[6 x AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor (AuthenticAMD) @ 800MHz] mem[Physical: 3.9GB, 50.0% free] disk[Total: 942.6GB, 0.6% free] video[nVidia Corporation [GeForce GT 440]] sound[HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia1: USB-Audio - USB Device 0x1940:0xac012: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia]
[22:31:52] <pfred1> why are you running testing?
[22:32:49] * Tecan looks around
[22:32:57] <Tecan> wrong room :)
[22:36:02] <r00t4rd3d> pfred1, me?
[22:36:34] <r00t4rd3d> I read I should do a latency test to see if my computer was worthy
[22:36:46] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d yes when LinuxCNC starts it doesn't automatically load the RTAI kernel extensions only when yo udo something like latency test or start a front end does the module load
[22:39:39] <r00t4rd3d> so looks like this computer is gonna be no good
[22:39:58] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d unless there is a solution
[22:40:19] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Did you sacrafice a case of quality beer to each of the demi gawds?
[22:40:40] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: that would be us
[22:40:51] <pfred1> Jymmm When enjoying the Burton Baton, you'll find an awesome blend of the citrus notes from Northwestern hops melding with woody, vanilla notes from the oak. The wood also tends to mellow the 10% ABV of Burton, so tread cautiously!
[22:41:20] <pfred1> 02:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168 B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller [10ec:8168] (rev 02)
[22:41:23] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: See, pfred1 knows what I speak of
[22:42:01] <Tecan> last time :)
[22:42:30] <r00t4rd3d> if i search for my error i get a bunch of garbage
[22:42:49] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d start sifting
[22:42:50] <r00t4rd3d> looks like its mach3
[22:42:56] <Jymmm> Roguish: no sacrfice, no worky cnc
[22:43:09] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: : no sacrfice, no worky cnc
[22:43:16] <r00t4rd3d> thats why i hate linux
[22:43:21] <r00t4rd3d> shit just cant work
[22:43:29] <r00t4rd3d> gottta fuck with it constantly
[22:43:40] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d some stuff in Linux is a pain to setup but once you have set it up it'll run until the wheels fall off your PC
[22:44:11] <djdelorie> pfred1: my servers are like that. I have to clean the dust out annually, other than that, they "just work"
[22:44:18] <r00t4rd3d> my usb wifi works under live cd but I installed the os to my hard drive and now it dont work lol
[22:44:25] <pfred1> least that has been my limited experience with Linux since 1995
[22:44:57] <A0Sheds> the wheels fell off my Linux box and it still works
[22:45:22] <pfred1> djdelorie I've heard tale told of Linux servers getting built into walls and for years no one even knows where they are but the ykeep on working
[22:45:48] <A0Sheds> or that kid that swallowed a small server
[22:46:17] <A0Sheds> years later he's getting an xray....
[22:47:49] <pfred1> once I get my Linux systems setup the only thing that reboots them is my power company
[22:48:07] <Jymmm> and who's fault is that
[22:48:15] <djdelorie> not here, I make my own power
[22:48:26] <Jymmm> djdelorie:
[22:48:29] <Jymmm> natural
[22:48:33] <Jymmm> gas doesn't count.
[22:48:34] <pfred1> since a line guy moved in down the street its gotten better
[22:48:56] <pfred1> he is my favorite neighbor
[22:48:56] <djdelorie> Jymmm: nope, seven day supply of propane on-site
[22:49:16] <Jymmm> djdelorie: That's not the "natural" I was speaking of =)
[22:49:42] <Jymmm> djdelorie: as in organic
[22:49:47] <djdelorie> whole house generator, automatic switchover, UPS... the power *doesn't* go out for the servers.
[22:50:02] <pfred1> this is Jymmm --> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/Mr_Natural.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Natural_(comics)&usg=__k9EwJLQtAEhXWAblqyHEVMno5Vw=&h=145&w=200&sz=19&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&tbnid=fCrws2jTHM75hM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=104&ei=8lqfT_nONOHa0QHEzciIAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3DMr.%2Bnatural%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D1%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1
[22:50:07] <Valen> I reboot mine rather more often, security updates
[22:50:24] <Valen> but my servers are clustered, so theres no actual downtime ;->
[22:50:38] <pfred1> Valen I don't run any public servers
[22:51:57] <Jymmm> djdelorie: how many kw is the gen?
[22:52:02] <djdelorie> 17
[22:52:13] <r00t4rd3d> linuxcnc wont work on ubuntu 11 ?
[22:52:17] <Jymmm> djdelorie: just propane?
[22:52:28] <djdelorie> just propane
[22:53:00] <Tecan> SysInfo: uname: Linux 3.0.0-13-lowlatency Distro: DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
[22:53:00] <Tecan> 32 bpp) Netinfo: eth0: In: 2.12G Out: 173.19M
[22:53:01] <Tecan> SysInfo: Linux 3.0.0-13-lowlatency | Dual AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor 1600.000 MHz | Mem: 1987/4060M [||||||||||] | Diskspace: 947G Free: 10G | Bogomips: 38574.4 | Screen Res: 3200x1080 | Procs: 272 | | Up: | eth0: In: 2.12G Out: 173.19M
[22:53:06] <Jymmm> djdelorie: k. There's a tru-fuel kit for my Honda EU2000i I'd like to get, unleaded, NG, and LPG
[22:53:12] <Jymmm> tri-fuel
[22:53:20] <djdelorie> I don't have NG available here, and gasoline goes bad over time
[22:53:22] <r00t4rd3d> or 12.04 i guess its upto now
[22:53:27] <djdelorie> even with stabilizers
[22:53:50] <pfred1> diesel doesn't
[22:53:51] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Yeah, now you know why I want the kit =) Plus I now have 3x 20# tanks
[22:54:17] <djdelorie> mine's a 330
[22:54:35] <djdelorie> I think. Big horizontal "submarine" shaped tank.
[22:54:47] <pcw_home> r00t4rd3: did you fix your lapic issue?
[22:54:52] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Yep, I'm fully aware of it, been there, done that
[22:55:12] <Tom_itx> is it a good idea to run a shielded signal wire to your step and directon signals?
[22:55:16] <djdelorie> quiet, reliable, automatic power... worth every penny
[22:55:35] <Jymmm> djdelorie: As long as the gas man is on time =)
[22:55:43] <pfred1> I worked on a job where we built a data center for wall st. they weren't messing around they had 3 generators on site the size of freight locomotives and a room the size of a basketball court filled with racks of batteries
[22:55:46] <r00t4rd3d> pcw_home, nope
[22:55:52] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: on mine, I ended up putting a pretty small load resistor at the controller end of those, to absorb EMI
[22:56:06] <djdelorie> Jymmm: they need up to three days to refuel, hence the seven day supply :-)
[22:56:15] <Jymmm> pfred1: Sounds liek a typical DC to me
[22:56:24] <Jymmm> djdelorie: ah
[22:56:32] <pfred1> Jymmm an electrician burnt the place to the ground
[22:56:32] <pcw_home> r00t4rd3d: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting#emc2_doesn_t_run_missing_lapic
[22:56:47] <r00t4rd3d> tried that, same
[22:56:59] <Jymmm> pfred1: There's a DC here, where the gens are on the roof
[22:57:08] <djdelorie> pfred1: best story like that was my dad's. He worked on a tugboat, was taking a class at the engine factory. They had seven or so boxcar-sized engines in a "cold standby" state for power backup, went from cold to online in about seven seconds.
[22:57:23] <pfred1> Jymmm no way could you have put these things on the roof they needed 3 foot thick concrete pads int othe ground
[22:57:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: if they dont have fire supression to put ot any fire, they fubared on the design.
[22:57:58] <Jymmm> pfred1: I have nfc how they do this crap sometimes
[22:58:04] <Tom_itx> djdelorie like a pulldown type setup?
[22:58:04] <pfred1> djdelorie hospitals have huge flywheels
[22:58:13] <pfred1> Jymmm we were building the place
[22:58:33] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: yes. I tried various resistors until I found one still big enough to leave a useful "high" level
[22:58:59] <Tom_itx> ok, i'll see how 'noisy' it is first
[22:59:09] <Tom_itx> 10k?
[22:59:12] <pfred1> Jymmm the electrician wanted 3 more months of solid work
[22:59:20] <Jymmm> heh
[22:59:27] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: I don't recall the value, it depends on what kind of a logic high you need
[22:59:32] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:59:41] <Tom_itx> i'll be using 5v logic i think
[22:59:44] <pcw_home> smart drives use differential step/dir
[22:59:51] <Jymmm> pfred1: he got busted I hope
[22:59:55] <djdelorie> Mine is 5V logic, but a "high" is anything from 2.2v up
[23:00:11] <pfred1> Jymmm he might have I mean i heard it was an electrician so someone must have known who it was
[23:00:30] <pfred1> there was a garbage pile on the site and he fired it up
[23:00:40] <djdelorie> CMOS 5v logic might need 4v or more, for example.
[23:01:06] <pfred1> I thought 2.7 was a solid high?
[23:01:34] <djdelorie> pfred1: for TTL, sure. Modern ICs are CMOS. You need to read the spec for your controller.
[23:01:57] <pfred1> that is the problem they have with CPUs you can only lower thevoltage so much before you don't have enough ratio beat the S/N
[23:02:13] <Tom_itx> i've got some nice shielded aircraft wire i may use
[23:02:18] <djdelorie> right, but your controller might have an opto input, so it's current that matters, etc.
[23:02:28] <pfred1> Tom_itx twisted pairs
[23:02:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: teflon coated?
[23:02:44] <pfred1> that is how you beat noise
[23:02:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/small_probe7_small.jpg
[23:02:49] <djdelorie> differential over twisted pairs is best, assuming your PC has that as output and your controller has that as input.
[23:02:52] <Tom_itx> Jymmm yes
[23:03:14] <Tom_itx> fine strand stranded shielded
[23:03:18] <pfred1> though shielding never hurts
[23:03:37] <Tom_itx> Jymmm also surplus :D
[23:04:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Just a BITCH to strip is all =)
[23:04:40] <Tom_itx> takes some patience
[23:04:58] <Jymmm> or a $200 electric stripper =)
[23:05:02] <pfred1> sharp scissors and then it is all in the wrist :)
[23:05:19] <Jymmm> pfred1: not teflon coated
[23:05:22] <pfred1> yup
[23:05:31] <pfred1> teflon coated that is how yo udo it with scissors
[23:05:33] <Jymmm> jacketed I mean
[23:06:00] <pcw_home> some drives with OPTO inputs leave them uncommitted (no common) so they can be driven differentially
[23:39:52] <alex4nder> hey
[23:51:22] <Jymmm> ho
[23:51:57] <alex4nder> sup
[23:52:23] <A0Sheds> anyone looking for a wire edm unit?