#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-22

[01:43:32] <Jymmm> Who is it that does ATMEL's? http://www.geocities.jp/arduino_diecimila/obaka/project-2/index_en.html
[01:49:31] <djdelorie> www.atmel.com
[01:49:52] <Jymmm> lol, no someone on here works with AVRs
[01:50:14] <Jymmm> lol, no. Someone on here works with AVRs
[01:50:27] <Jymmm> I think it's Tom_itx
[01:52:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: one pin composite out from arduino
[01:53:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBXiZpuncg&feature=related
[02:09:12] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:13:02] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: hi
[02:13:24] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: BTW... GN8 is G NATE, not Good night =)
[02:13:24] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmm
[02:13:35] <DJ9DJ> hehe
[02:14:10] <DJ9DJ> in german it its "gute nacht" and 8 is "acht"... so it works better ;)
[02:14:22] <DJ9DJ> so i have to write gn9 here ;)
[02:14:23] <Jymmm> ah
[02:14:37] <Jymmm> hahaha
[04:05:40] <Loetmichel> morgäääääähn!
[04:06:05] <Loetmichel> ehrm... mornin'!
[04:30:19] <Guest63042> linuxcnc.org/documentation has been entered by viagra-spam
[06:27:27] <r00t4rd3d> awesome
[06:33:46] <r00t4rd3d> I have a pile of Arduino's
[06:34:16] <TekniQue> for balancing your desk on?
[06:37:35] <r00t4rd3d> nah, they catch all the dust in my house.
[06:41:04] <r00t4rd3d> who uses a TB6560 controller?
[06:43:30] <r00t4rd3d> I really hope it works well for me. I dont want to buy a g540.
[06:44:38] <r00t4rd3d> cheaping out on nothing but the electronics should be cool right?
[06:45:06] <ReadError> g540 is pretty sweetr
[06:45:11] <ReadError> hooked up easy
[06:45:17] <r00t4rd3d> pretty expensive too
[06:58:56] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190606079584?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[06:59:04] <r00t4rd3d> that seem like a good multimeter?
[07:00:19] <archivist> and we get whiners trying to get TB6560s going properly
[07:00:40] <archivist> alex_joni, site seems hacked again
[07:01:04] <r00t4rd3d> newbs
[07:04:38] <Valen> where would i put a sandwich in a linux file system
[07:05:16] <r00t4rd3d> the fat table
[07:06:24] <Valen> pretty sure thats not a part of the linux file system you know / and all that jaz
[07:06:34] <Valen> I need somewhere to dd a sandwich to
[07:07:17] <archivist> sudo make me a sammich
[07:07:19] <Jymmm> /dev/nul
[07:07:46] <Valen> archivist: its a comment on a comment with that comment ;->
[07:08:34] <archivist> to understand recursion you need to understand recursion
[07:09:54] <r00t4rd3d> i got bored last night:
[07:09:55] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/V6ggD
[07:10:07] <Jymmm> Is that anything like you die to live and live to die?
[07:12:28] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: how thick is the mdf and aluminum bar?
[07:12:38] <r00t4rd3d> 3/4 - 1/4
[07:13:01] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: do you have a way to tension the bearings?
[07:13:12] <Valen> dd if=/dev/sandwich of=/dev/
[07:13:14] <Valen> ???
[07:13:37] <Jymmm> Valen: /dev/null
[07:13:44] <r00t4rd3d> yeah. That gantry was just to test
[07:13:49] <Valen> see null is kinda harsh
[07:13:55] <Valen> I want the sandwich
[07:14:11] <Valen> of=~/later ?
[07:14:11] <r00t4rd3d> im going to cut it down today so its about 4" off my table
[07:14:22] * archivist has the sandwich
[07:15:35] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm, when you say tension the bearings what do you mean?
[07:15:43] <r00t4rd3d> tighten them to the rail?
[07:15:52] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: basically, yes
[07:16:04] <Valen> generally you use pairs of bearings and load them up against each other to get rid of backlash
[07:16:10] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: ability to remove any ply
[07:16:11] <r00t4rd3d> yeah there is adjustment screws
[07:16:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/linear-carriage-with-abec-7-bearings-p-33.html?cPath=21
[07:16:57] <r00t4rd3d> and if you really want to read up on them
[07:16:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/linear-carriage-adjustment-p-100.html?cPath=24
[07:17:54] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[07:17:59] <ReadError> you seen the maker slide?
[07:18:09] <r00t4rd3d> i think so
[07:18:24] <ReadError> http://www.makerslide.com/
[07:18:32] <ReadError> you can make your frame out of 80/20 and those
[07:18:56] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/cnc-mill-kits-shapeoko
[07:19:10] <r00t4rd3d> 16hours!
[07:20:16] <r00t4rd3d> you cant even buy that stuff yet though
[07:20:31] <r00t4rd3d> soon
[07:20:54] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: how wide is your bearing mounting blocks?
[07:21:40] <r00t4rd3d> 1" with the bearing
[07:21:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/cad/pdf/CRP101-00.pdf
[07:22:08] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: No, I mean the blocks themselves, 6"?
[07:22:30] <r00t4rd3d> how long? 4.5"
[07:22:56] <r00t4rd3d> they make longer ones too
[07:22:58] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: and how long is your 1/4" thick rails?
[07:23:16] <r00t4rd3d> 36"
[07:23:18] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/extended-linear-carriage-with-abec-7-bearings-p-35.html?cPath=21
[07:23:48] <r00t4rd3d> that one is almost 9" long
[07:23:59] <ReadError> you dont think you need a longer one?
[07:24:13] <r00t4rd3d> My mom said it was average.
[07:24:29] <ReadError> oh ok
[07:24:43] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: your mom isn't going to be the one laying with it though
[07:24:51] <Jymmm> playing
[07:25:08] <ReadError> hey now he has a 'special' relationship
[07:25:32] <r00t4rd3d> My uncle is also my brother
[07:25:44] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: so is your sister
[07:25:51] <r00t4rd3d> thats my cousin
[07:25:58] <Jymmm> your child
[07:26:18] <Jymmm> your child is your fathers brother
[07:27:16] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: with only being 4.5" apart, I think you're ging to have a hell of a lot of stress when your table is at the ends
[07:27:59] <r00t4rd3d> i dont get you
[07:28:51] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: When the end of your table is touching the end of the bearing block, your bearings are going to be under a LOT of stress
[07:28:57] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[07:29:25] <Jymmm> If your bearing block was 9" long, much less stress
[07:29:31] <r00t4rd3d> I can set the gantry on one end and push it right off the other with a slight push
[07:29:53] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: But push it to 99.999% off
[07:29:58] <Jymmm> and leave it there
[07:30:17] <r00t4rd3d> i can add another 4.5 carriage or get some extended ones if I have issues
[07:30:28] <r00t4rd3d> Im only going to start off wit a Dremel so...
[07:30:36] <Jymmm> you might even find dimples in your aluminum the next day
[07:31:06] <r00t4rd3d> they say to use cold rolled steel for those but I wanted to be different.
[07:31:25] <r00t4rd3d> and its easier to drill
[07:32:32] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Ok, grab the end of your rails like you would a steering wheel and hold it in the air for 5 minutes
[07:32:49] <r00t4rd3d> for what
[07:32:53] <ReadError> shouldnt it be longer on the side that holds the router?
[07:33:15] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: to understand why I'm mentioning it
[07:34:44] <r00t4rd3d> I have a couple extra rods and pillow blocks if shit goes down
[07:36:36] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLfHb9LRWuc
[07:36:46] <r00t4rd3d> i got the carriage idea from that guy
[07:37:13] <r00t4rd3d> he uses 4 but has alot more going on then me
[07:37:45] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I'm not commenting on the design, just the length of the bearing blocks
[07:38:29] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: the mdf and 1/4" are going to be really heavy alone
[08:56:59] <alcx> can anybody tell me why i see viagra-spam when i browse http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation
[08:57:24] <alcx> with text browser only ( lynx, w3m )?
[08:57:34] <psha> where exactly?
[08:57:37] <psha> on that page?
[08:58:00] <alcx> the page is complete different
[08:58:24] <psha> probably corrupted /etc/hosts file?
[08:58:46] <Jymmm> what is the date at the bottom of the page?
[08:58:48] <psha> usual case on windows machines )
[08:59:19] <alcx> i use a mobile machine right now - maemo
[08:59:31] <Jymmm> alcx: what is the date/time at the bottom of the page?
[08:59:56] <Jymmm> "Last Update on..."
[09:01:16] <alcx> with lynx i see as date today
[09:02:46] <psha> hm, i've 03.04.2012
[09:02:52] <psha> 20:19
[09:02:59] <psha> Last Updated on Tuesday, 03 April 2012 20:19
[09:03:36] <alcx> with grafical browser 3 april. and the page looks allright
[09:04:01] <alcx> i see spam only in lynx / w3m
[09:07:33] <alcx> /etc/hosts is ok
[09:08:42] <fliebel> Is there a general cnc channel? I'm just asking general CNC stuff in here most of the time, which I'm not sure is appropriate.
[09:11:27] <ReadError> dns server?
[09:13:55] <r00t4rd3d> fliebel, this is it
[09:14:07] <jdhnc> fliebel: that's about 60% of all here.
[09:14:16] <Guest53386> dns server is which is from goole
[09:14:19] <r00t4rd3d> there is like #diycnc i think
[09:14:30] <r00t4rd3d> but its dead
[09:14:33] <Guest53386> google
[09:15:15] <r00t4rd3d> fliebel, the talk here is pretty open though
[09:15:25] <r00t4rd3d> from what ive seen atleast
[09:15:51] <r00t4rd3d> ive never asked anything emc related :)
[09:16:04] <r00t4rd3d> i dont even have it installed.
[09:16:15] <r00t4rd3d> i dont even have my router built
[09:16:25] <r00t4rd3d> where am i?
[09:16:33] <Jymmm> mars
[09:17:23] <r00t4rd3d> i marked all my stuff now i just have to cut it
[09:17:30] <fliebel> Cool, so here we go, with a stupid question: How do you mill standalone objects? I'm having fun turning wood to sawdust, but eventually, I'd like some objects that are, you know, separate from the rest of the plank.
[09:18:01] <r00t4rd3d> 3d printer
[09:18:06] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[09:18:36] <jdhnc> leave tabs, use hold downs, tape, vacuum table, fingers, holes
[09:19:04] <r00t4rd3d> ive seen lots of people use clear packing tape lol
[09:19:16] <fliebel> jdhnc: tabs, hold downs?
[09:19:26] <r00t4rd3d> ie clamps
[09:19:40] <r00t4rd3d> they make table clamps
[09:19:52] <jdhnc> don't cut all the way through, leave a few places where z doesn't go through. Most CAM packages will generate them.
[09:20:07] <jdhnc> put holes in the inside part and screw it to the spoilboard
[09:20:15] <fliebel> I saw an option in PyCAM to generate support things...
[09:20:16] <r00t4rd3d> then use your one good tooth to bite out the tabs
[09:20:20] <jdhnc> hold it with your fingers as it makes the final cut :)
[09:20:50] <jdhnc> don't cut the last few thou and sand/snap it off
[09:21:29] <jdhnc> let it cut and hope for the best as it finally breaks free and either goes flying or gets gouged by the cutter.
[09:21:49] <Jymmm> or both
[09:21:49] <fliebel> Ok, thanks for the inspiration. :)
[09:22:07] <fliebel> Now I "just" have to configure PyCam correctly.
[09:22:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/PdfNx.jpg
[09:23:14] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: self portrait?
[09:23:57] <r00t4rd3d> i can do stuff
[09:24:48] <pcw_home> same thing here. its hacked
[09:25:32] <r00t4rd3d> i just got offered to extend my membership with viagra
[09:25:41] <pcw_home> (documentation page)
[09:26:06] <Jymmm> pcw_home: can you post a scrncap?
[09:27:21] <pcw_home> this is with lynx its fine with FF
[09:27:33] <pcw_home> text of the page?
[09:27:45] <Jymmm> no that's ok
[09:46:16] <pcw_home> also a viagra ad if you change your user agent to search robot
[09:48:40] <Jymmm> Yeah, I think I found the cause
[09:50:44] <pcw_home> another joomla vulnerability? (theres a April 18 date in the ad)
[09:50:49] <Jymmm> I meantioned what needed to be done over the last 3-4 years, but eh
[09:51:36] <pcw_home> "Posted: 03.20.2012 18:03 by Gilson"
[09:52:16] <pcw_home> SQL injection?
[09:53:02] <archivist> or a joomla vulnerability
[09:53:22] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Website is STILL hacked/fucked up (view in lynx) get rid of that ADMIN link and go thrut he database MANUALLY, yes it will take hours. I'm getting tired of mentioning this year after year
[09:53:55] <Jymmm> alex_joni: View in lynx --> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation
[09:54:13] <Jymmm> or both
[09:54:15] <archivist> I could test for sql injection as I have a tool here but one does not let it loose without people knowing
[09:54:48] <pcw_home> or in FF with googlebot user agent if you want to see its full glory
[09:55:11] <Jymmm> I think it got hacked way back, but there was residual left behind allowing for a "back door" or sorts. and that's why it keeps getting re-hacked
[09:55:18] <archivist> sounds like the same problem as a few months ago
[09:55:22] <Jymmm> *of sorts
[09:55:54] <Jymmm> Right, but nobody went thru the db or code to look for residue (aka back door)
[09:55:58] <archivist> one cannot run joomla and other cms's without some baby sitting and work
[09:56:21] <pcw_home> probably only meant to be seen by robots lynx was a mistake
[09:58:24] <Jymmm> I dont want to install liveheaders to test it
[09:58:35] <Jymmm> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/live-http-headers/
[09:59:48] <Jymmm> But if one of you want to, then you can see what, if anything, is doing the redirection/doanload to find the exact culprit. There are a LOT of offsite links
[10:01:53] <archivist> it just shows different content depending on your user agent, dont think redirects are involved
[10:02:08] <pcw_home> looks like some versions of joomla would execute php in .jpg files hiding in the image directory
[10:02:49] <Jymmm> It downloads a file: L15482-4328TMP.html.gz
[10:02:59] <Jymmm> that fiel contains the viagra stuff.
[10:03:19] <Jymmm> something is regenerating that file with a random filename
[10:03:52] <Jymmm> the .gz I believe is just the httpd's compression
[10:04:36] <Jymmm> so somewhere on the webserver's file system is a L15482-*.html file
[10:05:46] <Jymmm> But, where the 302 redirect is coming from I have no idea, I dont have the tools setup to look.
[10:06:32] <Jymmm> or some other selective method
[10:10:36] <Jymmm> reviews.libraryjournal.com is one of the urls and sets a cookie letting them know what website has been efectively hacked
[10:24:31] <pcw_home> hmm the documentation page is but the tip of the iceberg...
[10:32:42] <Tom_itx> Jymmm sometimes if you want something done you must take it upon yourself
[10:35:55] <archivist> first you need admin rights
[10:37:21] <Tom_itx> well drat
[10:45:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/ukIeN.jpg
[10:45:53] <r00t4rd3d> better?
[10:52:40] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm
[10:57:58] <r00t4rd3d> i wanna hook a servo to a syringe, fill it with frosting and have it write and draw on cake.
[11:07:04] <A0Sheds> MDF + food, not exactly NSF
[11:20:09] <r00t4rd3d> ill bribe the health inspector with cake
[11:49:51] <joe9> any suggestions on what I am doing wrong? http://codepad.org/qd0uwS6a I cannot get the rectangle closed in the backplot of axis.
[11:51:27] <Tom_itx> rounding error in diameter offset of tool?
[11:51:58] <joe9> G01 X-0.1 Y-0.1 F1
[11:52:11] <joe9> if i move the line after the G40, then it closes the rectangle.
[11:52:53] <Tom_itx> feed is modal too
[11:52:57] <Tom_itx> you don't need to repeat it
[11:53:09] <joe9> ok, thanks. will correct the feed.
[11:53:41] <joe9> Tom_itx: is it correct to move the above line (return to start position) to after the G40.
[11:53:46] <ReadError> oh wow
[11:53:48] <Tom_itx> same with the coordinates but that varies among machines
[11:53:50] <ReadError> hand generated gcode
[11:55:00] <joe9> Tom_itx: I do not understand the last line. can you please restate, if you do not mind?
[11:55:00] <Tom_itx> why do you want diameter offset?
[11:55:11] <joe9> Tom_itx: updated code http://codepad.org/Pj0lJsej
[11:55:37] <joe9> Tom_itx: I read about "cutter radius offset" and I want to get a rectangle of 0.10 x 5inch.
[11:55:52] <joe9> without the cutter radius reducing the size.
[11:55:53] <Tom_itx> if you have a move of G1 x0, y0 then G1 x0, y1 you don't need to repeat the x0
[11:56:01] <Tom_itx> on most machines
[11:56:17] <joe9> Tom_itx: yes, I agree on that. I was just using that to help with the code reading.
[11:56:41] <joe9> not sure if it actually helps. it feels that it helps to have an (x,y) position for each step.
[11:56:46] <Tom_itx> i think it's easier to read changes
[11:57:02] <Tom_itx> but it doesn't matter much
[11:57:33] <Tom_itx> what's your D1 offset value?
[11:57:47] <joe9> G20 G10 L1 P1 Z0 R0.0625
[11:57:59] <joe9> doesn't this line set it to 0.125 = diameter?
[11:58:04] <joe9> or, am I wrong?
[11:58:08] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[11:58:12] <Tom_itx> i'd have to look
[11:58:19] <Tom_itx> i don't have em all memorized
[11:58:29] <Tom_itx> i use cad cam most of the time
[11:58:40] <cradek> joe9: did you see the examples in the docs at http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html#sec:cutter-radius-compensation
[11:58:57] <cradek> they show cutting inside and outside a rectangle
[11:59:35] <Tom_itx> if the D1 value is non zero it may not close the rectangle
[11:59:43] <Tom_itx> cutter comp
[11:59:45] <joe9> cradek: no, I did not see the examples. will check them out.
[11:59:47] <joe9> thanks.
[12:27:03] <alex4nder> hey
[12:31:34] <joe9> cradek: i like this book and am using it for getting up to speed. wondering if you recommend anything else http://www.amazon.com/CNC-Programming-Handbook-Third-Edition/dp/0831133473
[12:31:37] <joe9> alex4nder: hello.
[12:36:43] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the green globe
[12:41:52] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hello, how are you today sir?
[12:42:37] <IchGuckLive> good thanks april wether outside raining in waveforms
[12:43:07] <kb8wmc> lol, sunshine here today but only 55 F.
[12:54:34] <alex4nder> joe9: how's it?
[13:12:56] <joe9> alex4nder: asking about the "CNC Programming Handbook"?
[13:14:17] <joe9> alex4nder: awesome book, imho. I borrowed it from the local library. there are free e-book copies floating around. I am thinking of buying one now.
[14:35:54] <alex4nder> joe9: oh yah? you haven't been happy with the LinuxCNC docs?
[15:09:04] <isssy> hi all
[15:09:11] <isssy> look that http://www.commell.com.tw/product/SBC/LP-172.HTM#Overview
[15:15:33] <Loetmichel> isssy: looks nice... but no parallel ports
[15:15:39] <isssy> no need
[15:15:44] <isssy> pf parport
[15:15:51] <Loetmichel> pf?
[15:16:05] <isssy> in 1 or 2 months pcw will release 7i43 but lan version
[15:16:20] <isssy> parport ,
[15:17:51] <Loetmichel> *wait*
[15:18:37] <Loetmichel> isssy: you wanted to say?
[15:20:01] <isssy> that mesa will have new card - lan based instead parport
[15:20:27] <isssy> but if you insist on parport , there is mini pci-e - parport cards
[15:21:17] <andypugh> I can't find a component to split an int into bits. Surely we have one?
[15:21:57] <cradek> classicladder can do bitwise math
[15:22:09] <Loetmichel> isssy: do i look like rockefeller?
[15:22:10] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[15:22:44] <Loetmichel> mesa is much to expensive for me cheap bastard, and not needed fpr small steppers
[15:22:48] <Loetmichel> anyway
[15:23:16] <isssy> depend what you need to do. i am using servos on big machines and steppers are not for me
[15:23:17] <andypugh> cradek: Aye, I guess that is one solution. I am trying to answer a query on the forum. An inverse-version of "weighted-sum" is what is required.
[15:23:43] <andypugh> Loetmichel: 5i25 is not a lot more than a parport card, and does a lot more.
[15:24:00] <Loetmichel> andypugh: not in germany ;-)=
[15:24:45] <Loetmichel> isssy: my actual machine: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[15:24:59] <isssy> yea , he is right , to import mesa cards in europa is more expencive than the card itself
[15:27:34] <Loetmichel> the machine i am building for a friend: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131
[15:28:14] <Loetmichel> THERE i could have used the mini mainboard, because the SBC i have buildt in it is a press fit...
[15:28:17] <andypugh> I can only find them for sale as a kit with the 7i76, but presumably that means that they have stock just over the border in Austria: http://www.retrofit-plus.at/store/7i76-plug-n-go
[15:28:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13113
[15:30:31] <archivist> andypugh, "5i25 is not a lot more than a parport card" how is your maths?
[15:30:51] <archivist> 219 euro
[15:30:52] <isssy> my smaller machine is 1meter by 2 meters and the big 30 meters by 2,5 meters
[15:31:22] <isssy> the german site is selling them 4 times more expencive than mesa
[15:31:26] <andypugh> It's about $80 for just the 5i25. Which is £40 (using approximate maths) which is a good night on the beer in an expensive pub...
[15:31:43] <CareBear\> $80 in beers?
[15:31:56] <andypugh> I get thirsty
[15:32:15] <archivist> I cant afford going to a pub, thats about a weeks earnings
[15:32:18] <isssy> hey , andy is from the uk , have some mercy
[15:32:18] <CareBear\> that's.. 60 eur; 25 beers
[15:32:28] <CareBear\> I'm swedish
[15:32:35] <CareBear\> but live in germany now
[15:32:47] <CareBear\> I always bring way too much cash to the bars
[15:33:12] <CareBear\> beer can easily be 7 eur in sweden
[15:33:14] <Loetmichel> sorry, that was wrong /s
[15:33:18] <CareBear\> here? 2.50
[15:33:20] <Loetmichel> s/pub / nightclub ;-)
[15:33:25] <CareBear\> club pub bar whatever
[15:33:28] <Loetmichel> should that have been ;-)
[15:33:54] <CareBear\> alcohol serving place of entertainment
[15:34:27] <andypugh> CareBear\: €8 in Rovaniemi
[15:34:59] <isssy> in BG is0,85 euro
[15:40:09] <CareBear\> isssy : in bars or in the supermarket?
[15:40:21] <CareBear\> at the supermarket it's 85 cent in germany as well
[15:41:12] <isssy> supermarket , in the bars is 1,5 euro
[15:41:18] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I'd like to do that too
[15:41:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: did you see the arduino one wire composite output?
[15:41:54] <Tom_itx> no
[15:42:26] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: scroll back thru yout logs
[15:42:35] <Tom_itx> that's a dallas (tm) protocol
[15:42:48] <Tom_itx> err ti?
[15:42:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: not one Wire (tm), single pin
[15:43:16] <Tom_itx> why would i want composite?
[15:43:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: dont ask why, just go look
[15:44:06] <pfred1> why would Tom_itx want composite?
[15:44:14] <Tom_itx> i always ask why
[15:44:21] <Tom_itx> the govt tells me not to ask why too
[15:44:27] * pfred1 asks for Tom_itx
[15:44:35] * Tom_itx thanks pfred1
[15:44:39] <pfred1> np
[15:44:58] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i don't see it in my screen buffer and that's as far back as i'm gonna look
[15:45:12] <Jymmm> fine my me
[15:45:17] <Jymmm> by
[15:45:35] <Jymmm> it wasn't for MY benefit.
[15:45:43] <Tom_itx> mkay, thanks
[15:46:26] <Tom_itx> sry if i seem a bit crabby. I am.
[15:46:47] <pfred1> I'm tired and I can get cranky when I get tired
[15:48:15] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:48:22] <Jymmm> gn9
[15:48:23] <DJ9DJ> eeeeeeeh... gn9 Jymmm! ;)
[15:48:28] <DJ9DJ> hehe
[15:48:35] <Jymmm> =)
[15:48:55] <DJ9DJ> cya guys :)
[15:48:59] <Loetmichel> CareBear\: i was in Norway and denmark with the ship i did my military service on
[15:49:19] <pfred1> Loetmichel who did you invade?
[15:49:25] <alex4nder> CareBear\: have you built a mill yet?
[15:49:38] <Loetmichel> one souce of incom was to sell the monthly bottle of to the danish/norwegian ppl
[15:49:48] <alex4nder> haha
[15:50:25] <Loetmichel> buy a bottle hard alcohol (remy martin fro example) on the ship (taxfree) for 17DM , sell for abut 180 ;-)
[15:50:30] <pfred1> Loetmichel we're ready for you http://paulgazis.com/Humor/Vikings.htm
[15:50:38] <Loetmichel> pfred1: noon
[15:50:39] <Loetmichel> e
[15:51:12] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: you got a montly bottle in the military?
[15:51:38] <Loetmichel> (exept a bar in scotland where a comrade got bandly beaten up at friday, so the whole ship was there the next day and "told them to dont do taht again witnh a german soldier"
[15:52:07] <Loetmichel> ... the pub hat da letter on the door "closed for rebuild" the next day;-)
[15:52:17] <Loetmichel> alex4nder: right
[15:53:28] <alex4nder> crazy
[15:54:43] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Is this true? http://sonowyouknow.tumblr.com/post/20402627550/today-a-lesson-in-german-capitalisation
[15:54:45] <alex4nder> I thought that stopped with the British sailors during colonial times.
[15:55:00] <Loetmichel> alex4nder: i even sat in deck off-watch... feet on the table... the comandant came in "whats up? no beer on the table? i trow a round" ;-)
[15:55:07] <alex4nder> hah
[15:55:14] <andypugh> It wasn't a monthly bottle, it was a daily allowance of 1 pint of rum.
[15:55:34] <alex4nder> andypugh: 30 days = a month
[15:55:36] <alex4nder> :/
[15:55:43] <alex4nder> it's just a matter of units
[15:56:06] <andypugh> Unless the bottle is 30 pints then you were short-changed.
[15:56:26] * pfred1 tries to calculate the logistics of a pint a day per sailor ...
[15:56:31] <Loetmichel> andypugh: entirely rhight translated
[15:56:35] <Loetmichel> right
[15:56:59] <andypugh> So, you really need that Shift key :-)
[15:57:05] <Loetmichel> we do ;)
[15:57:28] <pfred1> andypugh was it an imperial pint?
[15:58:19] <andypugh> I was in Bletchley Park today (where they invented the computer to break the German Enigma code) and realised that Enigma and Lorenz only had capitals. And no spaces. That must have made things a little bit difficult.
[15:58:35] <Loetmichel> andypugh: the monthly bottle is the one we got tax-free
[15:58:41] <andypugh> pfred1: Yes, the proper 20oz one.
[15:58:48] <Loetmichel> we could buy as much as we wanted with tax
[15:58:53] <pfred1> the bomb wasn't technically actually a computer as we understand them today
[15:59:03] <Loetmichel> but: we had to be sober on shift ;-)
[15:59:09] <andypugh> The bombe was in no way a computer. Colossus was.
[15:59:27] <pjm__> ah i saw the bombe y/day
[15:59:28] <pfred1> well that wasn't what they used on Enigma
[15:59:36] <andypugh> The pint of rum a day in the navy was given out for free.
[15:59:45] <CareBear\> alex4nder : no, no mill. will not likely. but there is one at a hackerspace..
[15:59:50] <pjm__> andypugh did u see colossus running today?
[15:59:56] <andypugh> I did, yes :-)
[16:00:05] <pjm__> nice! it is awesome
[16:00:09] <pfred1> andypugh 20 ounces per sailor per day makes it even harder to field a force
[16:00:24] <andypugh> I actually found the Bombe more interesting, there is more stuff moving.
[16:00:28] <pfred1> did anyone defer their due?
[16:00:51] <pjm__> andypugh yes when they were explaining it my dad + me were round the back marveling at the mechanics inside
[16:01:01] <pjm__> some pretty nice engineering
[16:01:04] <andypugh> As far as I can tell the British Navy always fought drunk. That might not be a bad thing.
[16:01:23] <andypugh> (It seemed to work out OK)
[16:01:31] <pfred1> ultra was possibly the most pivitol strategic ace in the war
[16:01:36] <Loetmichel> andypugh: its possible to talk entirely in caps. the most double menaing is to far apart to get misunderstood
[16:01:47] <pfred1> the dumb jerries kept using their codes up until the end
[16:01:54] <Loetmichel> but there is a lot of puns which use it, of course ;-)
[16:02:13] <Loetmichel> whats a jerry?
[16:02:52] <pfred1> Loetmichel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerrycan
[16:03:31] <andypugh> Interesting that a huge weakness of Enigma was that no letter could ever code to itself, so all you had to do was run the permutations and reject any combination where cyphertext and plaintext had the same letter in the same place.
[16:03:52] <pfred1> it was the poles who really broke the code
[16:04:15] <pfred1> then they gave all their data to the British
[16:04:41] <CareBear\> man..
[16:04:55] <CareBear\> As of January 10, 2009 all portable fuel containers are required to conform to two new regulations: 2. They must meet the requirements of the Children’s Gasoline Burn Prevention Act.
[16:05:02] <Loetmichel> [22:51] <pfred1> the dumb jerries kept using their codes up until the end <- still dont understand
[16:05:32] <CareBear\> some kid got burned and now there is a *law*
[16:05:43] <pfred1> Loetmichel the allies called the Nazis jerries
[16:05:43] <andypugh> Loetmichel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_(WWII)#Jerry He was being willfully offensive.
[16:05:51] <CareBear\> poor kid of course, but a *law* ?! only in the US
[16:06:01] <Loetmichel> pfred1: ah, NOW i am getting it
[16:06:14] <Loetmichel> CareBear\: no, germans tend to do the same thing
[16:06:16] <pfred1> andypugh hey at least I didn't say Fritz
[16:06:22] <alex4nder> or kraut
[16:06:29] <alex4nder> I would have been offended.
[16:06:34] <pfred1> alex4nder yes hun comes to mind too
[16:06:37] <CareBear\> I would have been hungry.
[16:06:40] <alex4nder> haha
[16:06:57] <pfred1> I think that is what Patton called them
[16:07:46] <Loetmichel> tahts ok, we call english ppl still "Tommies" ;-)
[16:07:53] <pfred1> maybe we should make non-flammable gasoline?
[16:08:05] <pfred1> then nobody will get hurt
[16:08:07] <andypugh> Inselaffe
[16:08:16] <Loetmichel> pfred1: already invented for Jet fuel
[16:08:25] <Jymmm> pfred1: who says it's flammable?
[16:08:44] <Loetmichel> andypugh: and that, if one wants to be especially nasty
[16:08:57] <pfred1> I'm going to keep on using my same old beat up 5 gallon can to get gas for my tractor
[16:09:42] <Jymmm> oh, you talking those new safety cans?
[16:09:44] <andypugh> I have a German girlfriend. It does make for the occasional awkward conversation "This is a really ugly town" / "Well, it was quite nice until your lot bombed it" / "Well, you started it" :-)
[16:10:08] <pfred1> yeah the brits were for indiscriminate carpet bombing
[16:10:18] <Loetmichel> andypugh: hihi, i can imagine ;-)
[16:10:29] <pfred1> the first time the germans bombed london it was by mistake
[16:10:49] <andypugh> They were aiming for Moscow?
[16:11:00] <pfred1> they weren't aiming for london
[16:11:07] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i THINK the germans and the brits are noone to put blame here
[16:11:10] <Loetmichel> or on both sides
[16:11:16] <pfred1> in WW2 most bombs landed more than 5 miles off target
[16:11:17] <Loetmichel> that was a WAR goddamit.
[16:11:47] <andypugh> pfred1: London is quite a lot bigger than 5 miles diameter.
[16:12:04] <pfred1> andypugh they were probably trying to hit an air field outside london
[16:12:10] <Loetmichel> there is a proverb here: "in war and in love everything is allowed"
[16:12:27] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Indeed, and none of us here had anything to do with it.
[16:12:31] <Loetmichel> right
[16:12:38] <pfred1> actually the only thing that saved england was germany switching to bomging london after it all blew up
[16:13:07] <pfred1> was a terrible strategic blunder not to finish off the raf when they had the chance
[16:13:31] <Loetmichel> pfred1: the whole thing was a strategic desaster
[16:13:37] <pfred1> not all of it
[16:13:44] <pfred1> france fell quickly
[16:13:45] <Loetmichel> ok, whats to expect from a austrian private?
[16:13:57] <Loetmichel> +n
[16:14:04] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: shrimp on a barbie?
[16:14:11] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Giant beer?
[16:14:12] <Loetmichel> ?
[16:14:22] <Jymmm> I red it as .au
[16:14:24] <pfred1> it was that war monger churchill that i blame
[16:14:25] <Jymmm> read
[16:14:32] <Loetmichel> austrian, not australian
[16:14:39] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I see that now =)
[16:14:42] <alex4nder> haha
[16:14:49] <alex4nder> yah, I blame Australia for WWII
[16:14:58] <Jymmm> though it would be funny if austrian did the australlian thing
[16:15:12] <Loetmichel> hitler was a private in the austrian army before ruling germany
[16:15:38] <Loetmichel> private-> second lowest rank, "gefreiter" in germany
[16:15:52] <pfred1> Loetmichel he was a higher grade than that he was a corporal
[16:15:57] <Jymmm> are there still places in EU where dud bombs can still be found?
[16:15:59] <pfred1> won the iron cross too
[16:16:17] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: in germany: ervery 2 weeks or so
[16:16:35] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: in the ground or in bunkers/silos?
[16:16:38] <pfred1> he would have advanced further too except his superiors didn't think he had the character for rank
[16:16:49] <Loetmichel> last time about 4 weeks ago the rhine was blocked because 2 bombs were found in the river bed
[16:17:10] <Jymmm> ah, but not in random fields?
[16:17:17] <andypugh> Aye, we keep finding them here.
[16:17:18] <Loetmichel> oh, i thought dud meant "fallen, but not detonated"
[16:17:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: correct
[16:17:34] <andypugh> Quite often during building work in London.
[16:17:35] <Loetmichel> in random fields also
[16:17:42] <Loetmichel> and under buildings
[16:17:42] <Jymmm> ok
[16:17:55] <pfred1> as much bombing as took place in WW2 it is nothing compared to today
[16:18:15] <Jymmm> pfred1: I was thinking vietnam war
[16:18:26] <Loetmichel> i read somewhre tha amiericans had dropped more bombs in iraq on one day than have fallen in the ENTIRE ww2
[16:18:29] <pfred1> yeah in vietnam we used some ordinance
[16:18:59] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Maybe in yield, but I very much doubt in number.
[16:19:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I think vietnam was worse than iraq
[16:19:06] <pfred1> one B-52 can carry what 10 WW2 bombers could
[16:19:18] <Loetmichel> but as the advance in technology is: i doubt that as much as in ww2 are "dud"
[16:19:22] <andypugh> pfred1: Yes, but you don't have thousands of B52s
[16:19:32] <pfred1> andypugh I don't know about that
[16:19:35] <Loetmichel> andypugh: in tonnes, of coures, not number
[16:19:49] <Loetmichel> course
[16:19:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, we have FedEx now for overnight delivery, 10am guanrteed
[16:20:01] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: HARHAR
[16:20:04] <Jymmm> =)
[16:20:28] <pfred1> andypugh on top of it we more into precision guided munitions today it took so many bombs ot hit a target in WW2 now we get it first shot
[16:21:11] <pfred1> one bomb that hits is way better than 100 that miss
[16:21:45] <andypugh> Anyway, what really spoilt it for the Nazis (lets blame them, not the nice Germans) was Japan. Though quite _why_ Pearl Harbour meant that the US was at war with Germany is something of a mystery to me. The US could have finished the Pacific war in no time if they hadn't decided to sort out Europe first.
[16:22:30] <pfred1> the USA had been bullying Japan since the early 30s
[16:23:18] <Jymmm> bullying?
[16:23:23] <Loetmichel> andypugh: letzs put it this way: if hitler had listened to his more seroius generals all of you would speak german today.
[16:23:24] <pfred1> roosevelt was doing all he could to actually get into the war no matter what he said
[16:23:31] <Jymmm> ah
[16:23:40] <pfred1> Jymmm sure we weren't allowing htem to get oil or other natural resources
[16:23:48] <Loetmichel> lets greet the fackt taht hitler was so egomanic ;-)
[16:24:01] <pfred1> we were totally screwing woth them
[16:24:13] <Jymmm> pfred1: Ah, I didn't know.
[16:24:25] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Aye, we were discussing that in the bar last night, how depressign it must have been for career generals to be forced to follow the plans of politicians.
[16:25:17] <pfred1> I donno early on the german generals were against then after early success pretty much for the Nazis
[16:25:57] <pfred1> it was only after things went bad again that some went against again
[16:27:03] <Loetmichel> pfred1: hit should have made his peace with either russians OR brits
[16:27:16] <Loetmichel> then no force would have stopped him
[16:27:30] <pfred1> he tried with the brits and the peace he wanted to make with the commies was to kill them all
[16:27:31] <andypugh> I think that they never quite got over seeing the UK as natural allies.
[16:27:51] <pfred1> so you could say he tried pertty hard there too
[16:28:20] <Loetmichel> and after he would have conolidated his land gains in euirope and africa there woulb be no force big enough to stop then, considering the tell-tal german ingeneuety in desinging better weapins
[16:28:23] <Loetmichel> weapons
[16:28:32] <cpresser> as you all know, the nazis havent been defeated. they build a base on the dark side of the moon
[16:28:37] <pfred1> Loetmichel the USA would have crushed him
[16:28:47] <cpresser> spaceships with anti-gravity drives...
[16:29:19] <pfred1> Loetmichel you don't know how many Americans of German descent there really are here :)
[16:29:25] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i want to belive that but i dont think they had the reccources one hitler had conuered half europe
[16:29:40] <Loetmichel> once
[16:29:46] <Loetmichel> conquered
[16:30:12] <pfred1> the Nazis never understood the scale of economics
[16:30:23] <pfred1> the whole war they made what 6,000 tanks?
[16:30:33] <Loetmichel> cpresser: first the dark side of the moon isnt dark
[16:30:54] <Loetmichel> second: that fuilm has more holes in it than the titanic ;-)
[16:30:57] <Loetmichel> film
[16:31:15] <cpresser> but it sounds cool. they even hav a moon highway^^
[16:31:19] <Loetmichel> pfred1: 6000 tanks of the german tiger variant are enough ;-)
[16:31:26] <pfred1> apparently not
[16:31:38] <pfred1> not when we made 60,000 shermans
[16:31:45] <Loetmichel> pfred1: not for a 2 front war
[16:32:10] <Loetmichel> oh, they would have been sufficient to kill 10 times the shermans
[16:32:18] <pfred1> a tiger might be able to take out 20 shermans but the 21st is gonna get him
[16:32:26] <Loetmichel> but not if the majority of them was bound in russia
[16:32:49] <pfred1> it happened time after time
[16:32:50] <Loetmichel> pfred1: totally right
[16:32:52] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[16:32:56] <Loetmichel> do the math ;-)
[16:33:41] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte
[16:33:58] <Loetmichel> what really puzzled me: i have personnally shot a american ".45 peacemaker" rebuild
[16:34:09] <pfred1> heh yeah I seen this thing I thought it was called the maus
[16:34:30] <Loetmichel> ... wit bullets that have a V0 of 1040m/s... and are supposed to break 38mm armor steel...
[16:34:38] <pfred1> the germans put too much faith into super weapons
[16:34:57] <Loetmichel> whats a mindset to create a small arm that can cope with a tank?
[16:35:02] <andypugh> pfred1: The Ratte was 5x as big as the Maus.
[16:35:20] <pfred1> andypugh ah I see this was one of their pipe dreams?
[16:35:26] <andypugh> Indeed.
[16:35:43] <pfred1> the maus was stupid enough of an idea
[16:35:56] <pfred1> daneg thing would have just sank int othe ground
[16:36:29] <pfred1> yeah the T-34 really shocked and scared the germans
[16:36:46] <cpresser> fortunately hitler tried to push some of those insane projects. just imagine what would have happend if people like speer would have established efficient mass production in early war (pre 42)
[16:36:55] <pfred1> it influenced the design of the panther a lot but not enough
[16:37:13] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i dont think so
[16:37:33] <pfred1> cpresser that was a big factor the germans were always playing catch up they never fully comprehended the scale of the war in time
[16:37:37] <Loetmichel> if the tracks are wide eough the monster would have less ground pressure than an car
[16:37:42] <psha> heh, also don't miss early t34 with t34-85
[16:37:55] <pfred1> up until the last few months of the war they kept on increasing their production
[16:39:16] <cpresser> pfred1: it was quite lucky for the german war-efforts that fritz todt died in a plane crash. after that speer took over war-production and started massive rationalization programs.
[16:39:21] <pfred1> if the germans had gotten on the stick earlier maybe they'd have cone a little better?
[16:39:41] <Loetmichel> pfred1: yeah, thats what i meant by "if he had time to consolodate his land winnings he would be nearly unstoppable
[16:39:41] <cpresser> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Produktion_von_Panzerwagen_in_Deutschland_1941-1944_ver.2.png
[16:39:44] <pfred1> done a little better even
[16:40:02] <pfred1> Loetmichel the thing is the nazis liked to rest on their laurels
[16:40:03] <Loetmichel> (not that that is a good thin, I would not want to live in a nazi country)
[16:40:13] <pfred1> they were a bunch of lazy sots at heart
[16:40:21] <cpresser> the one thing germans really lacked was a organization like bletchley park
[16:40:37] <pfred1> one thing the germans had was parallel efforts
[16:40:44] <pfred1> there was too much competition
[16:41:10] <pfred1> too many factions inside battling each other
[16:41:18] <Loetmichel> maybe, but when was it that competition switched from being a good thing to being a drawback?
[16:41:28] <pfred1> when you're fighting a war
[16:41:29] <andypugh> I don't think that the Nazi high command had any respect for intellectuals, so they would never have set up anything like Bletchley.
[16:41:36] <pjm__> i bought a book at BP yesterday called 'nazi codebreakers' about the german efforts against allied crypto systems, looks like an excellent read!
[16:41:49] <pfred1> yeah running off the jews wasn't the smartest thing they did
[16:42:08] <pfred1> the US atomic program was mostly german jews
[16:42:36] <Loetmichel> the jews were a "sacificial cow"
[16:42:47] <Jymmm> kosher?
[16:42:53] <Loetmichel> to put the blame on someone for the bad economics and so on
[16:43:15] <pfred1> pjm__ wen you get done with that read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptonomicon
[16:43:28] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutte
[16:43:33] <Loetmichel> i think it could have been any other ethnic if the leaders were biased another way
[16:43:36] <pfred1> Loetmichel I'm not entirely sure if it was completely misplaced
[16:44:02] <pfred1> but it still hurt them in the short term
[16:44:30] <Jymmm> pjm__: fiction?
[16:44:33] <pfred1> the nazis hardly invented anti-semitism
[16:44:36] <andypugh> Bill Tutte managed to figure out the structure of the Lorenz machine from looking at the cyphertext and plaintext. That's actually almost incredible.
[16:45:06] <pjm__> Jymmm no its non-fiction, based on allied investigations after germany was taken by allies
[16:45:12] <pjm__> and also POW 'interviews'
[16:45:30] <skunkworks__> pjm: ! how is your machine working?
[16:45:40] <pfred1> pjm__ the Cryptonomicon is fiction but some of the events that happen within the story actually occurred
[16:45:40] <Jymmm> pjm__: Cool, I might actually read a non-technical book this decade then =)
[16:46:02] <Loetmichel> harhar
[16:46:13] <Jymmm> hell, it'll take me that long to read it anyway
[16:46:21] <pjm__> sorry i got the title wrong its Hitler's Codebreakers: German Signals Intelligence in World War 2 [
[16:46:22] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I dont read
[16:46:38] <Loetmichel> i just happen to have the 4 "chtorran" books (sci-fi) on my cellphone
[16:46:44] <Loetmichel> in english
[16:47:00] <pjm__> skunkworks__ yo! it is working nicely thanks, i still have a few little bits to do to tidy it up, but so far its been perfect! and i've made tonnes of things with it
[16:47:01] <pfred1> the only code that wasn't broken in WW2 was the US code based on the navajo Indian language
[16:47:04] <Loetmichel> to read in the car and everywhere/when i have time
[16:47:17] <pfred1> we had a corner on the Indian market :)
[16:47:41] <pjm__> skunkworks__ last project http://pjm.dyndns.org/twtr/nixie4.jpg case for my clock
[16:47:54] <Loetmichel> because my pile of "to read" novels is getting higher and higher
[16:48:22] <skunkworks__> Neat!
[16:48:33] <pjm__> also re BP i would recommend "Colossus: The secrets of Bletchley Park's code-breaking computers"
[16:48:35] <Loetmichel> pjm__: nice. but a nixie clock HAS to be in a wooden case. IMO
[16:48:57] <pfred1> pjm__ you could polish the edges more
[16:48:58] <pjm__> LOL well i wanted to see the electroncs
[16:49:21] <Loetmichel> ... and it has to be free to air wiring
[16:49:24] <pfred1> pjm__ wet sand it with 600 grit then use polishing compound
[16:49:27] <Loetmichel> not PCB
[16:49:27] <pjm__> yeah i looked at how u get the edges of polycarbonate smoothed, not too sure how
[16:49:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: Someone analyzed encrypted SSL traffic recently and was able to determine from the patterns what content they were looking at.
[16:49:37] <Loetmichel> ... also in my opinion
[16:49:55] <pjm__> could u have a nixie clock in wood case with GPS timing?
[16:50:00] <pjm__> or does that not mix properly
[16:50:04] <pfred1> pjm__ I put the polishing compound on a piece of paper then use it like sandpaper
[16:50:07] <Loetmichel> [23:39] <pfred1> pjm__ wet sand it with 600 grit then use polishing compound <- or use a bunsen burner and some experience
[16:50:21] <Jymmm> pjm__: gps or wwv ?
[16:50:23] <pfred1> Loetmichel nah it comes out better polished
[16:50:30] <pjm__> wwv isnt accurate enuf ;-)
[16:50:36] <Loetmichel> pfred1: depends ;-)
[16:50:40] <pjm__> due to ionospheric disturbance
[16:50:42] <pfred1> torching it it is always wavy
[16:50:43] <Jymmm> pjm__: What do you think FEEDS gps?
[16:50:51] <pjm__> Rb's !
[16:50:55] <Loetmichel> whats wwv?
[16:50:57] <pfred1> Loetmichel no it doesn't polishing always yields a superior finish
[16:51:01] <Loetmichel> something like DCF77?
[16:51:04] <pjm__> yeah
[16:51:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: atomic clock in colorado
[16:51:20] <pfred1> and you can't torch all clear plastics either
[16:51:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: transmit time on 5,10,15,and 20MHz
[16:51:34] <Loetmichel> pfred1: right, workls best with PMMA
[16:51:47] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i see, like DCF77
[16:51:53] <Jymmm> yeah
[16:51:57] <andypugh> i like "Cryptonimicon" but I think that the"Quicksilver" series is better. It's science fiction, except the scientists are Newton, Hooke, Liebnitz...
[16:52:01] <Loetmichel> only that DCF77 is on 77.5khz
[16:52:06] <pfred1> I have a piece here that is torched one side and polished the other and i can see the torch waves in the polished side
[16:52:13] <Loetmichel> ... and about 10km from here
[16:52:24] <Loetmichel> with its main transmitter
[16:52:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWV_%28radio_station%29
[16:52:39] <pfred1> andypugh ever read Snow Crash?
[16:52:58] <Loetmichel> pfred1: so its not good torched?
[16:52:59] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[16:53:14] <pfred1> Loetmichel its OK but I prefer polished
[16:53:17] <Loetmichel> i never had problems with waves
[16:53:25] <andypugh> Yes. Several times. In fact I have read everything he has written, including the Stephen Bury stuff, and Zodiac.
[16:53:30] <Loetmichel> only wiht blisters if i got to long on one3 place
[16:53:31] <pfred1> polish one side then look through it
[16:53:36] <pfred1> then you'll see them
[16:54:09] <pfred1> andypugh I haven't read everything he's written but a few things
[16:54:29] <pfred1> gibson is a read everything well up until a point
[16:55:04] <andypugh> I Reamde is pretty good.
[16:55:12] <pjm__> Cryptonomicon gets excellent reviews, so probably one to add to my list
[16:55:14] <andypugh> And I really liked Anathem
[16:55:30] <pfred1> pjm__ I thought it was entertaining fast paced too
[16:55:37] <pjm__> great!
[16:55:48] <pfred1> it'd better be for the size it is
[16:56:02] <andypugh> I read anything written by Gibson, Sterling, Cherryh, Stevenson and Weber pretty much as soon as they are ublished.
[16:56:25] <andypugh> Ah, and Ian M Banks too
[16:56:26] <pfred1> a regular cyberpunker are you?
[16:56:34] <r00t4rd3d> pffft
[16:56:45] <Loetmichel> hmmm, who is weber?
[16:56:58] <andypugh> Quicksilver is Stempunk :-)
[16:57:00] <Loetmichel> the rest sits here in the shelf, more or less complete ;-)
[16:57:03] <andypugh> (steampunk)
[16:57:12] <pfred1> andypugh you might like some early greg bear
[16:57:59] <andypugh> David Weber answers your question about armour piercing handguns in "Out of the Dark" which is a really promising Alien Invasion story badly ruined by vampires.
[16:58:09] <andypugh> I have read most stuff by Greag Bear too.
[16:58:12] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_(Greg_Bear)
[16:58:32] <pfred1> OK
[16:58:36] <andypugh> And George RR Martin
[16:58:42] <pfred1> his later stuff is a bit too commercial for me
[16:58:58] <andypugh> I really like China Mieville.
[17:00:04] <pfred1> andypugh you like Larry Niven?
[17:00:26] <andypugh> Not especially, he is rubbish with characterisation
[17:00:36] <pfred1> hmm i liked the motie series
[17:00:38] <andypugh> I have read a lot of his stuff.
[17:01:17] <andypugh> Have you read anything by Vernor Vinge? He does better aliens than Niven
[17:01:33] <pfred1> I've read another Vinge not that one
[17:01:48] <pfred1> at least i think i have
[17:02:00] <andypugh> And I _think_ that Cherryh is the only author I know who has written books with no human characters at all.
[17:02:18] <Tom_itx> who reads them?
[17:02:24] <pfred1> Jack Vance?
[17:02:57] <andypugh> Yeah, I like Jack Vance, he has such a laid-back style where he quietly does dreadful things to characters with no fanfare.
[17:03:03] <pfred1> heh
[17:03:23] <pfred1> stanislaw lem?
[17:03:43] <pfred1> he wrote solaris
[17:03:47] <andypugh> Ah! At last, I haven't read anything by him.
[17:03:56] <pfred1> oh read everything by him!
[17:04:07] <pfred1> solaris is probably the worst hting he's ever written
[17:04:16] <Jymmm> lol
[17:04:25] <Jymmm> pfred1: it's not THAT bad
[17:04:33] <pfred1> compared to his other works it is
[17:04:45] <alex4nder> hah
[17:04:48] <alex4nder> I thought you were talking about the OS
[17:04:53] <alex4nder> and I was like "fuck yah man, Solaris sucks"
[17:05:05] <pfred1> but no it is a pretty wild story
[17:05:33] <andypugh> I tried to read Dhalgren once. I think that is not unusual.
[17:05:44] <pfred1> heh delany
[17:06:17] <pfred1> as many times as I've read Dhalgren I can't say as I understand it
[17:06:29] <pfred1> I always do enjoy it though
[17:06:40] <pfred1> try stars in my pocket like grains of sand
[17:08:14] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cyberiad
[17:09:12] <Loetmichel> [23:54] <pfred1> solaris is probably the worst hting he's ever written <- the film is BAD
[17:09:13] <pfred1> andypugh you'll like Lem
[17:09:19] <Loetmichel> the book is quite readable
[17:09:21] <pfred1> Loetmichel which there are two
[17:09:28] <Loetmichel> the new one
[17:09:36] <pfred1> well they're both pretty bad
[17:09:47] <pfred1> but I think the second one is a bit better than the first
[17:10:07] <pfred1> seeing either then reading the book will ruin it for anyone
[17:10:27] <andypugh> If I was going to recommend one book to read in the SF genre I think it would be Cherryh's "The Pride of Chanur". She has written "better" books, but that has a set of really likeable aliens in it.
[17:11:16] <Loetmichel> andypugh: chanur universe is GREAT
[17:11:26] <pfred1> this book when I read it I didn't know if it was true or not I'm pretty sure it isn't but it is so compelling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Master's_Voice_(novel)
[17:11:42] <pfred1> it is the most bizarre sci-fi book I've ever read though
[17:11:57] <pfred1> and I've read a lot of sci-fi books
[17:12:19] <pfred1> every 20 pages I was going is this real?
[17:12:31] <andypugh> Sounds good, actually.
[17:12:31] <Loetmichel> andypugh: and the most alien is the human ;-)
[17:12:39] <pfred1> it kicks ass
[17:13:37] <andypugh> One thing I liked about Stevenson's "Quicksilver" was how often it sent me to Wikipedia to check if events really happened. (it starts in 1666)
[17:13:47] <pfred1> heh
[17:14:11] <Tom_itx> someone have the link to the page to calc your stepper voltage?
[17:14:27] <pfred1> Tom_itx what does that mean?
[17:15:14] <pfred1> I thought as long as you didn't exceed your insulation break down voltage you were good
[17:15:30] <pfred1> and your current too of course
[17:16:40] <andypugh> Loetmichel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nUi3DaWzGI
[17:19:01] <Loetmichel> andypugh: nice!
[17:19:26] <andypugh> I guess we are not the only fans
[17:19:34] <Loetmichel> not really the voice i have imagined for her but fitting
[17:19:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ping
[17:20:36] <pfred1> OK that's enough of that
[17:20:57] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i admit the first time i read the books i COULD have imagined to be with a dozen or more female man-sized felines on a spaceship ;-)
[17:21:13] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ardunio composite video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBXiZpuncg&feature=related
[17:21:47] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Aye, it does sound more than bearable.
[17:21:53] <pfred1> if you're into space porn this comes to mind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_on_the_Half-Shell
[17:22:09] <Loetmichel> pfred1: no, entirely not
[17:22:19] <pfred1> it is an excellent book
[17:22:44] <Loetmichel> but the thought to be the lap pet of a buch of felines: may be interesting this way around ;-)
[17:23:03] <andypugh> Actually, no, I am not into space porn! In fact I get annoyed with books where the sex interferes with the plot. (Jean M Auel, I am pointing at you)
[17:23:18] <pfred1> read it and you may see where hitchhiker's guide the the galaxy came from
[17:23:22] <Jymmm> Cool, but pricy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gy7w6R091M&feature=related
[17:23:37] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[17:23:55] <pfred1> andypugh well in venus sex is a large part of the plot
[17:24:04] <Loetmichel> lets look at amazon... i would like to have the chanur books on the Smartphone ;-)
[17:24:30] <Loetmichel> ... i have 2 16gb cards in it. so space shouldnt be a problem ;-)
[17:25:48] <andypugh> Jymmm: Looks like a nice basis for a pandant
[17:25:52] <andypugh> A pendant, even
[17:26:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: a lil small though I'd think
[17:26:25] <Jymmm> to utilize the touch part
[17:26:53] <andypugh> Joke from last night: "Have you heard of Which Tyler? He led the Pedants Revolt"
[17:35:30] <andypugh> Loetmichel: No sign of Chanur on Kindle
[17:35:53] <Loetmichel> no
[17:35:58] <Loetmichel> apparently not
[17:36:10] <andypugh> Ah, well, not in the UK or DE anyway. I seems that it exists in the US>
[17:36:17] <andypugh> http://www.amazon.com/Chanurs-Venture-ebook/dp/B000FCK7TC
[17:36:38] <andypugh> That's simply unfair
[17:36:44] <Loetmichel> it is
[17:36:47] <pfred1> how can an ebook exist in only one place?
[17:37:31] <andypugh> Well, i am doing a brute-force search of regions....
[17:37:33] <Loetmichel> pfred1: how can germans not see half of the youtube videos?
[17:37:35] <Loetmichel> (gema)
[17:37:40] <jdhnc> 09/18/2010 04:33 AM 236,669 Chanur's venture - C. J. Cherryh.epub
[17:37:54] <pfred1> Loetmichel that's easy hostmasking
[17:38:56] <andypugh> I am quite often denied Youtube videos when I look from the PCs at work because they are orroneously identified as being in germany.
[17:39:35] <pfred1> andypugh can't be too careful with those Germans ....
[17:39:48] <jdhnc> I proxy through canada from some places and get odd results from some sites.
[17:40:02] <pfred1> we all know what a little beer and martial music does to them
[17:42:25] <andypugh> Right, time to sleep (well, I will probably read a bit more of "The Hunger Games" first. Which is OK but not great.
[17:42:57] <Tom_itx> pfred1 this was what i was after: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Formulas
[17:43:02] <pfred1> nite
[17:43:35] <pfred1> Tom_itx how does higher voltage make you miss steps?
[17:44:26] <Tom_itx> i don't recall saying it did
[17:44:50] <pfred1> the reason manufacturers don't give you the voltage is they know you're going to PWM the motor
[17:45:19] <pfred1> Tom_itx you didn't but thos page does
[17:45:44] <pfred1> "Run that axis and increase the speed until you find the fastest speed that it will run without missing steps with the test voltage."
[17:46:47] <Loetmichel> <- bedtime
[17:47:12] <pfred1> Tom_itx now i never knew inductance limited your maximum voltage
[17:48:32] <pfred1> although it does seem that at equal voltage a lower inductance motor will run faster than a higher inductance one can
[17:48:52] <pfred1> so it is a good thing you can run higher inductance motors higher voltages
[17:49:56] <pfred1> oh this is all for resistor current limiting drives
[17:50:28] <pfred1> I'm not sure if any of this applies to a PWM drive
[17:51:32] <pfred1> I built a resistor limited drive once the resistor you need is crazy
[17:51:58] <pfred1> I had a 36 Watt resistor and it still wasn't enough the thing got so hot you could fry an egg on it
[17:54:33] <pfred1> Tom_itx what kind of motor driver are you running?
[17:55:40] * robin_sz gulps
[17:55:42] <Tom_itx> probably the 203v
[17:55:53] <robin_sz> blinkin flip ....
[17:55:55] <robin_sz> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hardinge-HLVH-Super-precision-toolroom-lathe-19976-/190571407299?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2c5ef0e7c3
[17:55:57] <pfred1> Tom_itx then I do not think any of this applies to you
[17:55:58] <robin_sz> 14K?
[17:56:07] <Tom_itx> well sure it does
[17:56:15] <Tom_itx> there's still a max voltage
[17:56:17] <pfred1> Tom_itx how so?
[17:56:48] <pfred1> ah you'd better ask mariss but I think he is going to tell yo uyour only limit is the drive input voltage
[17:56:51] <Tom_itx> i'm well within the limits though
[17:57:22] <pfred1> that whole page is for a dropping resistor stepper motor driver and that ain't what geckos are
[17:57:53] <pfred1> the resistor they use is a current sensing resistor
[17:58:10] <robin_sz> surely, people stopped using dropper type drives roughly the same year they stopped using overhead pulleys and belts to move power around the shop?
[17:58:18] <pfred1> totally different
[17:58:22] * robin_sz nods
[17:58:36] <Tom_itx> well if it doesn't apply then the docs should say so
[17:58:38] <pfred1> robin_sz I built one to check it out
[17:58:46] <pfred1> it does at the bottom of the page
[17:58:52] <robin_sz> pfred1, very inefficient and crap at high speeds
[17:59:23] <pfred1> Tom_itx I didn't know what they were talking about myself until I'd read it to the end
[18:00:00] <pfred1> "Your resistor must drop the difference in voltage between the voltage at which your stepper is rated and your supply voltage: "
[18:00:12] <pfred1> that whole page is about a dropping resistor driver
[18:00:32] <pfred1> they went out with big hair in the 80s
[18:02:08] <Tom_itx> it would be better to run the stepper in parallel configuration over series wouldn't it?
[18:02:14] <pfred1> yes
[18:02:37] <pfred1> even if it means amp starving the motor
[18:03:14] <Tom_itx> i still believe there is a voltage limit on the motor itself
[18:03:25] <pfred1> yeah the breakdown voltage of the insulation
[18:03:46] <pfred1> somewhere around 300 volts I guess
[18:04:15] <pfred1> as long as you don't put more current into it than it can handle it can handle all the volts you throw at it
[18:04:58] <pfred1> this is the beauty of PWM drives
[18:06:11] <pfred1> although the resistor they're talking about on the bottom of that page I bet costs a pretty penny to buy
[18:06:25] <pfred1> for laughs I'm going ot look on up
[18:06:39] <robin_sz> PWM drives are without doubt the way to go, I can;t imagine anyone using resistor limited drives now they are available
[18:06:41] <robin_sz> but ..
[18:06:59] <robin_sz> I do rmeember someone selling them in the last few years on eBay .. what a joke
[18:07:10] <pfred1> what is the next round up after 100 Watt resistors?
[18:07:23] <Tom_itx> they should make mention of that on that page if it doesn't apply to newer drivers
[18:07:37] <pfred1> Tom_itx they do if you know what you'r reading about
[18:07:39] <robin_sz> you also have to consdier the PSU
[18:07:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: did you see it? if not scrollup
[18:08:14] <robin_sz> a PWN drive will use about 1/3rd or less of the current a resistor limite ddruive will
[18:08:30] <Tom_itx> pfred1 i thought i'd use this for a current limit resistor: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/resistor2.jpg
[18:08:33] <robin_sz> much less usually
[18:08:35] <pfred1> well I'm going to cheat and only look up a 100 watt resistor because i really don't know the next standard step up from it
[18:08:58] <Thetawaves> robin_sz, it depends on your switching speed
[18:09:02] <pfred1> Tom_itx too small
[18:09:06] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/resistor1.jpg
[18:09:16] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, no it doesnt
[18:09:20] <Thetawaves> robin_sz, eventually you'll eat up all the power switching your transistors if your pwm speed is too high
[18:09:25] <Tom_itx> 175w @ 500 ohm
[18:09:28] <Thetawaves> yes it absolutely does.
[18:09:33] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, unlikely
[18:09:37] <Thetawaves> LOL
[18:09:49] <pfred1> Tom_itx yeah but how many Watts is it at 5 Ohms?
[18:09:56] <Tom_itx> not as many
[18:10:02] <robin_sz> most modern fets and igbt are fine at 100khz
[18:10:03] <pfred1> not nearly no
[18:10:32] <Thetawaves> NO igbts are fine at 100khz
[18:10:36] <pfred1> Tom_itx I'm going ot look up what resistor the drive they describe on that page needs
[18:10:43] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, really?
[18:10:57] <Thetawaves> ultra fast igbts are 5khz in hard switch mode
[18:11:00] <Thetawaves> 20khz in resonate mode
[18:11:27] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, thank fuck you told me that, I shall recall all our last 4 years of production immediately
[18:11:46] <Thetawaves> show me a 100khz igbt
[18:11:49] <Thetawaves> i would LOVE to see it
[18:12:21] <robin_sz> the psu in our SMPS runs at 100khz
[18:12:30] <Thetawaves> with a mosfet
[18:12:33] <robin_sz> or 12okhz depending on model
[18:12:38] <robin_sz> IGBT
[18:12:42] <Thetawaves> give me a part number man
[18:12:57] <robin_sz> varies
[18:13:04] <pfred1> Tom_itx one 5 OHM, 120W resistor http://www.newark.com/ohmite/tghhv5r00je/resistor-thick-film-5ohm-120w-5/dp/83K9848
[18:13:12] <robin_sz> we build from small to medium size smps
[18:13:18] <robin_sz> 1kw to 8kw
[18:13:23] <Tom_itx> pfred1, is there a pointA?
[18:13:35] <Tom_itx> -A
[18:13:36] <pfred1> Tom_itx that is the resistor they mention on that page
[18:14:08] <Tom_itx> so i could put a diode pack on my mains and stuff it into the driver?
[18:14:16] <pfred1> the point is resistor dropper drives are ludicrious
[18:14:18] <Thetawaves> i found one
[18:14:21] <Tom_itx> provided the driver would take it
[18:14:32] <Thetawaves> so called 'warp' speed igbt good up to 100khz
[18:15:42] <Thetawaves> IRG4PF50W
[18:16:15] <alex_joni> we use the PF50W, but it's a slow one
[18:16:46] <Thetawaves> http://www.irf.com/product-info/igbt/
[18:16:57] <Thetawaves> htf did i miss the warp speed igbts
[18:17:17] <robin_sz> they have been around a while
[18:17:26] <pfred1> a canna hold her together for very much longer cap'tan
[18:17:41] <robin_sz> although ours are not IRF devices
[18:17:58] <pfred1> robin_sz you use dilithium crystals from Rigel 7
[18:18:17] <robin_sz> somedays when the supply drys up, I believe so
[18:18:22] <Thetawaves> that is actually the only warp speed igbt IR makes... wtf?
[18:18:34] <robin_sz> we dont use IR
[18:19:06] <robin_sz> although, istr that part is listed as a replacemetn for one of the msaller units, if our regualr supplier is out of stock
[18:19:53] <Thetawaves> what do you use?
[18:19:58] <pfred1> I've had a hankering lately to try my hand at making a SMPS
[18:20:34] <Tom_itx> someone recently did one using an avr and found it was only about 30% efficient
[18:20:40] <Thetawaves> IXGH72N60C3 or similar probably
[18:20:54] <Thetawaves> i am building one right now.
[18:21:07] <Thetawaves> i chose mosfets
[18:21:47] <Thetawaves> Tom_itx, how can that possibly be true?
[18:22:04] <pfred1> bad programming?
[18:22:17] <Tom_itx> couldn't tell you
[18:22:26] <Tom_itx> it was someone in #avr
[18:22:33] <Tom_itx> here within a couple weeks
[18:22:37] <pfred1> I couldn't tell you why someone would use an AVR in an SMPS
[18:22:37] <Thetawaves> in the buck converter at least.. the flyback diode used has to be very fast to get good efficiency.
[18:22:55] <Tom_itx> pfred1 he wanted to try it
[18:23:04] <pfred1> that would be a reason
[18:23:11] <Thetawaves> why does it matter which controller he used?
[18:24:11] <pfred1> you don't need to use a controller at all
[18:24:31] <Thetawaves> you need some measurement and pwm device
[18:24:42] <pfred1> sure you use a comparator
[18:24:48] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, we make stuff like this: http://matrixamplification.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=41&Itemid=124
[18:24:53] <Thetawaves> and a 555 timer?
[18:24:54] <Thetawaves> lol
[18:25:35] <pfred1> robin_sz slip that right under the back seat of the ghetto blaster
[18:25:39] <robin_sz> Thetawaves, we buy "a few" mosfets and IGBTs ;)
[18:25:47] <Thetawaves> robin_sz, the specific switch you use is a trade secret?
[18:26:17] <robin_sz> not really, im not the deigner, and I dont carry the numbers in my head ...
[18:26:44] <robin_sz> we do use IXYS parts in some though
[18:27:26] <pfred1> robin_sz what is a, "unique turbulated heatsink design"?
[18:27:39] <robin_sz> I know I bolted 4 of them into a servo drive the other day, thats kicking around somewhere
[18:28:03] <robin_sz> pfred1, its just a U shaped channel of ally, with slots cut through it
[18:28:15] <robin_sz> let me find an internals pic for you
[18:28:20] <pfred1> robin_sz totally tubular!
[18:28:26] <robin_sz> no
[18:28:29] <robin_sz> U shape
[18:28:46] <robin_sz> we punch it out of 4mm sheet, then bend it up into a U
[18:29:26] <pfred1> I think i like extrusions the best
[18:29:43] <robin_sz> we did that too
[18:29:52] <robin_sz> but not as efficient at getting heat out
[18:30:26] <robin_sz> we had them made in China, very cheap, cheaper than bending flat ally anyway
[18:30:33] <pfred1> I thought finned extrusions were the way to go
[18:30:46] <robin_sz> they are cheap and universal
[18:31:15] <robin_sz> sssh now, let me find you a pic ;)
[18:31:20] <pfred1> k
[18:31:51] * pfred1 lubz e-pr0n ...
[18:32:41] <Tom_itx> robin_sz, similar to the one laying on the desk? : http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/triac1_rev2.jpg
[18:33:13] <pfred1> Tom_itx the ones on your boards are extrusions
[18:33:16] <Tom_itx> only larger
[18:33:22] <Tom_itx> i know
[18:33:27] <Tom_itx> the other one isn't
[18:33:44] <pfred1> yeah I always thought the plates were chizy
[18:34:00] <pfred1> I mean they can get the job done but ...
[18:35:09] <pfred1> I gut old TVs for heatsinks
[18:35:36] <pfred1> who said TV was worthless?
[18:35:53] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, similar
[18:36:34] <robin_sz> pms sent
[18:50:18] <ThadiusB> question, if i recieve this RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task, technically it could be happening more than once even though it only displays once?
[18:50:24] <ThadiusB> need to check jitter?
[18:51:33] <pfred1> ThadiusB it means you have to back off some on your latency
[18:52:06] <ThadiusB> so i should run my stepconfig wiz again and do a longer jitter test for better average, then back off some?
[18:52:22] <pfred1> why test it you alreayd know you need to back off
[18:52:27] <robin_sz> strangely enough, I had just tonight pulled a EMC box out of hiding and started dragging slides and ballscrews towards the workbench
[18:52:31] <pfred1> just back it off some see if it helps
[18:53:15] <pfred1> I had to give up on axis GL was messing with my system
[18:53:20] <ThadiusB> ok, some i'm at 15k, any idea what increments i should start scaling it back in?
[18:53:37] <ReadError> ThadiusB: got it up and cutting?
[18:53:41] <pfred1> try 16K
[18:54:01] <ThadiusB> cutting air Read, actually did a few parts, but still having issues
[18:54:14] <ReadError> any pics or vids yet?
[18:54:44] <pfred1> ReadError really you could figure out what the max step rate you want it then set there
[18:54:54] <pfred1> want is even
[18:55:06] <pfred1> oh ThadiusB
[18:55:09] <ThadiusB> lol
[18:55:27] <pfred1> I mean why run faster than you need to?
[18:55:54] <ThadiusB> i'm just a small fish in a huge pond pfred
[18:55:55] <pfred1> do you have headroom over your max speed?
[18:55:56] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, got the link OK?
[18:56:28] <pfred1> I only ran into trouble when I went for high microstep modes
[18:56:44] <Tom_itx> yup
[18:56:50] <pfred1> evne in 8th step 18500ns is OK for me though
[18:57:06] <robin_sz> good good
[18:57:15] <Tom_itx> i should go to the local scrap and see if they have something similar
[18:57:24] <Tom_itx> they get some odd extrusions sometimes
[18:57:34] <pfred1> for heatsinks?
[18:57:45] <Tom_itx> that would be my purpose yes
[18:57:55] <pfred1> try aluminum window frames
[18:58:00] <pfred1> they're extrusions
[18:58:23] <robin_sz> if its just for a one off project, finned extrusion may be best
[18:58:36] <robin_sz> we do this because we make several hundred a month
[18:58:51] <Tom_itx> those are extrusions aren't they?
[18:58:55] <Tom_itx> they look like it
[18:58:56] <robin_sz> it slightly better than extrusion, but not a lot
[18:58:58] <robin_sz> no
[18:59:02] <robin_sz> 4mm flat sheet
[18:59:03] <Tom_itx> hmm
[18:59:06] <robin_sz> cut out on a punch
[18:59:12] <robin_sz> bent on a press
[18:59:27] <robin_sz> with a "swan neck" tool
[18:59:42] <pfred1> cold rolled sheet?
[19:00:09] <robin_sz> 4mm ally sheet ...
[19:00:16] <Tom_itx> must be pretty soft to start with
[19:00:16] <robin_sz> no clue if its cold rolled or not
[19:00:25] <robin_sz> its 1003 i think
[19:00:26] <robin_sz> http://www.vandf.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/edwards-tool11.jpg
[19:00:30] <robin_sz> comme ca
[19:01:09] <robin_sz> actually, we just bought a new punch this week,
[19:01:19] <robin_sz> Amada 422? 322? hmm
[19:01:20] <pfred1> I have a whole box of heatsinks I've scavanged
[19:01:28] <pfred1> they're my horde
[19:01:42] <ReadError> pfred1: you a horder? ;p
[19:01:49] <ReadError> hoarder
[19:01:51] <pfred1> ReadError I'm getting there
[19:02:03] <ReadError> lol it sounds like it ;)
[19:02:08] <Tom_itx> robin_sz one of those would be handy to have :)
[19:02:21] <pfred1> ReadError I just bought this over the weekend http://i.imgur.com/WCRO5.jpg
[19:02:30] <pfred1> ReadError and that isn't evne all of it!
[19:02:36] <ReadError> lol
[19:02:42] <pfred1> that bin was full
[19:02:44] <ReadError> why did you buy a box of used pens and markers?
[19:02:48] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, yep, it finishes off the machining department nicely
[19:02:52] <pfred1> it was $3
[19:03:08] <ReadError> did the glitter glue come with it?
[19:03:14] <pfred1> yup
[19:03:18] <ReadError> well thats a good deal then
[19:03:22] <Tom_itx> that's why he bought it!
[19:03:22] <pfred1> those CD-Rs too
[19:03:29] <Jymmm> so was the gameboy!
[19:03:32] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, we have a 8x4 cnc router, 2 small lasers (cardboard and plastic), a Haas VF2 with 4th axis and now an Amada punch
[19:03:37] <pfred1> yeah there was even a gameboy in there
[19:03:45] <alex4nder> ReadError: how's the mill?
[19:03:56] <ReadError> alex4nder: got everything mounted
[19:04:00] <alex4nder> nice
[19:04:02] <ReadError> gotta bring the box and monitor down still
[19:04:02] <Tom_itx> robin_sz our neighbor had newer haas but i've never run one
[19:04:05] <pfred1> I'd say 80% of the pens are good
[19:04:13] <ReadError> plus, i got an enclosure i want to put my stuff into
[19:04:15] <pfred1> by good i mean like new
[19:04:19] <ReadError> like a junction box
[19:04:20] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, we only got ours going really this week
[19:04:39] <ReadError> i was messing with pycam today at work
[19:04:45] <ReadError> it does not work as intended ;(
[19:04:46] <Tom_itx> i've seen a row of em at Tony's shop though
[19:04:48] <pfred1> Jymmm I feel I missed out on a golden opportunity though
[19:04:49] <robin_sz> Tom_itx, just sent first programmes down from VisualMill on Saturday
[19:04:55] <ReadError> importing a svg doesnt work at all
[19:04:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: how so?
[19:05:12] <Tom_itx> i think i got pics of em somewhere
[19:05:16] <robin_sz> look, its Jymmm
[19:05:26] <pfred1> Jymmm the woman I bought it off of is a nurse and a lot of the pens are chewed on so it is likely she has an oral fixation ...
[19:05:40] <Jymmm> pfred1: LOL
[19:05:42] <ReadError> pfred1: you in the USA?
[19:05:48] <pfred1> ReadError yes
[19:05:54] <ReadError> where about?
[19:06:00] <pfred1> ReadError Delaware
[19:06:04] <robin_sz> Jymmm, have you built that CNC parrot yet?
[19:06:14] <Jymmm> pfred1: If she's a nurse, she could be infected, so yes maybe you DID miss a golden opportunity of an STD
[19:06:41] <pfred1> Jymmm yeah she might have been a real slob I've been looking at these pens and they tell a story
[19:06:57] <robin_sz> nurses, .. nasty dirty things .. best avoided
[19:07:01] <Jymmm> pfred1: haha
[19:07:02] <pfred1> she was obviously a mad pen kleptomaniac
[19:07:10] * robin_sz checks his wife is not listening
[19:07:12] <ReadError> i only like a certain type of pen
[19:07:19] <robin_sz> sharpie?
[19:07:26] <pfred1> ReadError me too, one that writes
[19:07:31] <ReadError> precise v5
[19:07:34] <ReadError> or g2's
[19:07:41] <pfred1> yeah they'rei n there
[19:07:42] <Jymmm> pfred1: and would have access to date rape drugs too I bet... aka Fatal attraction
[19:07:55] <ReadError> http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/jFuArAQ_59mRfG588MTf-CeBa8M0brHAKc4SzXZ8CUj8Ev2My-V6r7mQJOgv0FbZXwoq4XM-hvzkirQ-1aVYh8FADaGaT917h90x1cx63r2QSI3bsN5QBkgjerMmP924s9wi188uKb9azMHTnjZx8qWh5fo0QsPETkFvuZV9OxPJpLA_
[19:07:56] <ReadError> those
[19:08:08] <pfred1> ReadError there are some really nice pens in this mess
[19:08:27] <ThadiusB> ok, another question, does linuxcnc have try and compensate for backlash, and if so, should i change my accel?
[19:09:02] <ThadiusB> if i have anti-backlash installed?
[19:09:22] <pfred1> backlash is one thing luckily I haven't had to fool with
[19:09:29] <Jymmm> ThadiusB: Yes, it does have compensation, but you should always use mechanical whenever you can
[19:09:39] <Tom_L> robin_sz, these are the ones at tony's shop: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/stewart/DSC_0007.JPG
[19:09:41] <pfred1> my HDPE nuts seem elastic enough they don't have any
[19:09:41] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/stewart/DSC_0008.JPG
[19:10:03] <Jymmm> pfred1: hdpe on acme?
[19:10:03] <Tom_L> bad flash on one
[19:10:09] <pfred1> Jymmm yes
[19:10:23] <Jymmm> pfred1: any play at all?
[19:10:31] <pfred1> Jymmm not that I can see
[19:10:39] <pfred1> I made the nuts thick and tight
[19:10:46] <Jymmm> pfred1: tried measuring by chance?
[19:10:54] <pfred1> with a dial indicator
[19:10:56] <Jymmm> k
[19:11:07] <ReadError> so did they get the site cleaned up?
[19:11:13] <ReadError> from the viagra
[19:11:16] <pfred1> I say 0.001 it moves 0.001
[19:11:42] <Jymmm> pfred1: if you ever have a pic of the nut, I'd like to see it
[19:11:58] <Jymmm> but no rush
[19:12:01] <jdhnc> Jymm: you want some pics of my nuts?
[19:12:18] <pfred1> only if they have hot chocolate on them
[19:12:28] <robin_sz> Tom_L, thats not a machine shop
[19:12:38] <Jymmm> jdhnc: No, I want your nuts clamped in my vise
[19:12:42] <Tom_L> well i know
[19:12:42] <robin_sz> Tom_L, wheres all the crap on the floor?
[19:12:52] <Tom_L> that's stewart / haas racing
[19:13:04] <robin_sz> do they have people come and lick it clean?
[19:13:15] <Jymmm> haas racing sounds familure
[19:13:20] <robin_sz> we dont have a CNC lathe
[19:13:21] <Tom_L> all of those shops back east are spotless like that
[19:13:28] <jdhnc> I have 2 in a box somewhere... also HDPE for 5/8" Acme
[19:13:30] <robin_sz> thats sick
[19:13:30] <pfred1> Jymmm gah the pics i took of the axis don't have the nuts on them
[19:13:30] <Tom_L> Jymmm nascar?
[19:13:43] <Jymmm> pfred1: np
[19:13:47] <pfred1> Jymmm the next time I take it apart I'll pop a pic
[19:13:48] <Jymmm> Tom_L: ah, ok
[19:13:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: cool
[19:14:36] <robin_sz> in most shops they keep about 2" of swarf onthe floor
[19:14:39] <robin_sz> and for good reason
[19:14:41] <pfred1> Jymmm the assembly is inside a box http://i.imgur.com/PHZCW.jpg
[19:14:52] <Tom_L> robin_sz yeah one of my jobs was like that
[19:14:54] <robin_sz> its to keep your feet out of the 1" of coolant
[19:15:12] <Tom_L> i probably went thru 55 gal of coolant a shift
[19:15:23] <pfred1> Jymmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[19:15:29] <robin_sz> isnt it bad for your teeth?
[19:16:05] <Tom_L> naw
[19:16:34] <robin_sz> keeps you regualr I guess
[19:16:54] <Tom_L> they were old ww2 era bar machines
[19:16:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: what stepper driver were you using there?
[19:16:59] <Tom_L> 6 and 8 spindle
[19:17:03] <robin_sz> constpiation? not me! .. .a gallon of coolant every day keeps me regualr!
[19:17:09] <pfred1> Jymmm my homemade TB6560
[19:17:16] <Jymmm> pfred1: ah
[19:17:38] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a52_DZ8S5xg
[19:17:39] <pfred1> I made it to 1.5 ips on another run but didn't video it
[19:17:57] <Jymmm> heh
[19:17:59] <Tom_L> robin_sz, i went thru the tool room one night and found some tooling for 50mm rounds
[19:18:11] <pfred1> looks like andy's machine
[19:18:26] <robin_sz> 50mm? coo
[19:18:46] <Tom_L> back then the women ran the machines
[19:18:50] <robin_sz> yeah
[19:21:25] <Tom_L> 50 cal
[19:21:32] <robin_sz> oh 50 cal
[19:21:39] <robin_sz> 0.5"
[19:21:41] <Tom_L> sry
[19:21:55] <robin_sz> yeah, often made in brass
[19:22:22] <robin_sz> its a nice round to shoot actually,
[19:22:32] <robin_sz> less brutal than .338 lap mag
[19:22:59] <robin_sz> I only had a play with it a couple of times
[19:23:08] <Tom_L> these were all cam drive machines
[19:23:13] <robin_sz> rigght
[19:23:23] <robin_sz> i know the sort fo thing
[19:23:34] <Tom_L> new britan
[19:23:39] <robin_sz> 40 foot long and full of widgets
[19:23:57] <pfred1> I hauled a punch card reader out once like that
[19:24:21] <pfred1> thing looked like something out of a stempunk nightmare
[19:24:53] <pfred1> it was a cube about 8 feet long 3 high 4 thick and yo ucouldn't see through it it was all these little levers and rods and gears
[19:25:47] <robin_sz> yep ;)
[19:25:56] <robin_sz> i saw some big cam autos at an auction
[19:26:07] <robin_sz> Swagelok hose fittings ...
[19:26:16] <robin_sz> they were like 40 foot long
[19:26:20] <robin_sz> 8 foot high
[19:26:34] <pfred1> I wish I'd taken a picture of that card reader it was singular
[19:26:37] <robin_sz> and had 7 stations, each doing one operation
[19:26:49] <robin_sz> its was just huge ...
[19:26:54] <robin_sz> yeah, neat stuff
[19:27:07] <pfred1> we had like 10 guys on this thing to move it
[19:27:27] <pfred1> it was like a solid chunk of metal
[19:27:58] <pfred1> but all the parts were like the size of one joint of your finger
[19:28:08] <pfred1> there had to have been tens of thousands of parts!
[19:28:29] <pfred1> I mean this thing was packed!
[19:28:55] <pfred1> it was at AT&T
[19:29:28] <pfred1> I bet they were so happy to be rid of it it'd been idle for over 10 years and they couldn't figure out how to get rid of it
[19:30:40] <pfred1> it was like having a car in the building with no tires on it
[19:31:44] <robin_sz> heh
[19:31:58] <robin_sz> ever seen a multi-spindle?
[19:32:00] <robin_sz> http://www.vandf.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/edwards-tool11.jpg
[19:32:28] <robin_sz> thats a small one, but scroll down to the pictures fo the business end
[19:33:33] <jdhnc> anyone have cad drawings of mesa boards? Just outline and mounting holes would be good.
[19:34:10] <Tom_L> i've asked for that previously
[19:34:15] <pfred1> they don't have that in their documentation?
[19:34:19] <Tom_L> suggested they add them to their docs
[19:34:24] <Tom_L> not that i found
[19:34:37] <Tom_L> robin_sz, not a very good pic: http://www.machinesales.com/machinery/Automatic-Screw-Machines-Mult-Spdl-CNC/0000002674
[19:34:43] <pfred1> haven't they ever looked at any datasheets? :)
[19:34:45] <Tom_L> that was a smaller 6 spindle
[19:35:08] <pfred1> you always have to supply the mechanical data
[19:35:20] <Tom_L> apparently not
[19:35:31] <pfred1> Tom_L ain't that a charmer
[19:35:32] <robin_sz> Tom_L, yeah, they are so complex internally
[19:35:51] <pfred1> what are those pipes going to it from the ceiling?
[19:35:52] <robin_sz> jdhnc, I can measure them for you if you want
[19:36:06] <robin_sz> mist extraction?
[19:36:11] <Tom_L> to remove the mist
[19:36:14] <Tom_L> probably
[19:36:25] <pfred1> why would you want to do a thing like that?
[19:36:27] <jdhnc> robin: I can do that too, just being lazy
[19:36:51] <Tom_L> i ran a row of 6 of those
[19:36:52] * robin_sz hands jdhnc a ruler
[19:36:57] <Tom_L> one was an 8 spindle
[19:37:26] <robin_sz> Tom_L, looks lcrazy to me .. they look liek a mechanical nightmare
[19:37:36] <Tom_L> fun to set up
[19:38:04] <Tom_L> there was a site that had better pics but i can't find it
[19:38:04] <robin_sz> fun ?
[19:38:11] <pfred1> I have a bijour mister
[19:38:23] <Tom_L> took about a shift along with keeping the others busy
[19:38:38] <robin_sz> fun for me usually involves two blondes, ideally sisters ... not 6 pesky machines with more moving parts than a typewriter
[19:38:58] <Tom_L> change the fingers on the feed tubes, the collets and all the cross slide tooling and front slide drills etc
[19:38:59] <pcw_home> jdhnc which card? most manuals have drawings in the back
[19:39:04] <pfred1> or Bijur whatever the heck it is
[19:39:26] <robin_sz> Tom_L, modern slant beds are much easier
[19:39:50] <Tom_L> oh i'm sure
[19:40:00] <pfred1> little old ugly green thing
[19:41:50] <pfred1> this is what it looks like http://www.oemsurplus911.com/hyd_a-d/images/bijur/uab220.JPG
[19:42:43] <Tom_L> haha wanna learn how to run one? http://www.mastertask.com/manufacturing/bar_machines/new_britain.php
[19:43:07] <pfred1> I donno I think I'd rather flood
[19:43:27] <pfred1> I picked up a little giant pump not too long ago that'd make a nice flood unit
[19:45:15] <Tom_L> http://www.nova-machinery.com/inventory/picture/101861-4.html
[19:46:08] <pfred1> Super Mario plumbed that
[19:46:37] <Tom_L> the main motor on em was 25-35 hp
[19:46:52] <pfred1> dims the lights clear across town
[19:47:08] <Tom_L> there was a whole room full of them where i was
[19:47:13] <Tom_L> 3 rows
[19:47:22] <Tom_L> probably 10 or 12 to a row
[19:48:05] <Tom_L> 3 different rooms held the new britain, davenports and brown & sharps
[19:50:23] <Tom_L> here's the feed tube end: http://www.nova-machinery.com/inventory/picture/101865-2.html
[19:50:50] <Tom_L> where you loaded the bar and adjusted the collet tension etc
[19:51:29] <pfred1> looks like the machine the guy got his hand caught in in The Machinist
[19:52:12] <Tom_L> umm you don't stick your hand in these when they're on
[19:52:31] <pfred1> that was the moral of that scene
[19:52:37] <pfred1> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361862/
[19:53:08] <Tom_L> ok. back to my sherline :)
[19:53:51] <pfred1> someone asked me once what I thought my most dangerous air tool was so I thought a moment then said my blow gun?
[19:54:17] <pfred1> he was like your blowgun? why you got all these grinders and saws and stuff why the blow gun?
[19:54:29] <pfred1> I said that's why because it is the tool you don't think will hurt you that will
[19:54:41] <Jymmm> pfred1: your mouth?
[19:55:05] <pfred1> Jymmm no I have unregulated air blow guns
[19:55:13] <Jymmm> (not just YOUR mouth, but anyone's)
[19:55:36] <Jymmm> pfred1: what 90psi and swarf going 200mph aint dangerous =)
[19:55:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: nor is sub-dermel injection gun
[19:56:02] <pfred1> just the air stream can blow your ear drums out
[19:56:32] <pfred1> which is why osha makes the guns be regulated
[19:56:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: and you being the rebel
[19:57:03] <pfred1> man regulated air guns are wimpy
[19:57:11] <pfred1> they kinda do it
[19:58:30] <pfred1> doesn't everyone run more than 90 PSI too? I thought I was low at 125 over here
[19:59:06] <Jymmm> in commericals shops. domestic 90psi is typical
[19:59:40] <Jymmm> wrench, impact, nail guns, etc
[19:59:44] <pfred1> I have a friend that owned a gas station I forget what he ran but his impact guns sounded like they were about to take off!
[19:59:53] <pfred1> I think he ran 175?
[20:00:21] <Jymmm> eeeesh
[20:00:50] <pcw_home> When we were kids we used to play at the electrical supply place where my father worked, shooting balls of Duxseal through 10 ft 1/2" EMT with the (unregulated) air guns (easily hit metal buildings 1/4 mile away)
[20:01:24] <pfred1> we made a blow gun out of 1/2" EMT and found this old gear shift lever that just fit in there nice
[20:01:27] <pcw_home> (not that my father ever know about it)
[20:01:38] <pfred1> we fired it at a tree in a field
[20:01:45] <pfred1> man it'd go in a few inches
[20:02:08] <pfred1> some wire nuts just fit into 1/2" EMT too
[20:02:25] <pfred1> but we got tired of shooting those
[20:02:39] <Jymmm> pfred1: There's a tv show abotu building undeground bunkers. they use a 900mph blowgun to shoot 4x4s thru steel plate
[20:02:49] <pcw_home> (also darts made from alligator clip insulators with concrete fasteners in the front)
[20:03:28] <pfred1> I saw the Mythbusters put straw through a palm tree sort of
[20:03:39] <pcw_home> (pcw just now realizes he was a juvenile delinquent)
[20:03:50] <pfred1> who isn't?
[20:04:16] <pfred1> I was having a barbeque once and I did some oxy acetylene balloons
[20:04:29] <jdhnc> pcw: 7i47 has great detailed drawing. 7i43 has no measurements. Looks like it is the same size as the 'bottom' set of holes on the 7i47 though.
[20:04:30] <pfred1> one guy was in the elevator installers union it blew his mind
[20:04:38] <pfred1> he was like man I got to do this at work!
[20:04:46] <pfred1> it is all in the mix
[20:05:21] <pfred1> you do just al ittle actylene then really pump the balloon up with the oxygen
[20:05:26] <pcw_home> OK Ill fix the 7I43 manual (any of the small cards have the same mounting holes so 7I33 will be the same))
[20:06:02] <pfred1> get it just right and it goes off like a half a stick
[20:07:25] <pcw_home> oxy acetylene scares me but I made rockets from CO2 cartridges and matchheads and still have all my fingers!
[20:07:58] <pfred1> I was doing them another time and a buddy if mine was standing right over it not expecting very much I was like ah, Scott you might want ot back up some
[20:08:05] <pfred1> when it went off he thanked me
[20:08:48] <pfred1> and if oyu knew Scotto the guy is like the biggest nut I ever met
[20:09:12] <pcw_home> well hard to get oxidizer and fuel more intimately mixed outside of high explosives
[20:09:43] <pfred1> the trick is put in the acetylene first just a little then turn it off and fill it with the oxidizer
[20:09:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: Start at 9:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbdTwa5j5tI
[20:09:57] <pfred1> either that or it just makes a big ball of fire
[20:09:58] <ReadError> game time baby
[20:10:10] <ReadError> got the computer moved
[20:10:14] <pfred1> which is kinda cool too but no big boom
[20:10:16] <pcw_home> Ive heard that static is risk
[20:10:17] <ReadError> axis hooked up
[20:10:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: 600MPH and 2x4's
[20:10:29] <ReadError> now i have about 1 hr before ambien knokcs my dick in the dirt ;/
[20:10:34] <ReadError> lets see what we can do!
[20:10:42] <pfred1> pcw_home the acetylene eats the rubber
[20:10:51] <pfred1> so you gotta make them then blow them right off
[20:11:20] <pfred1> but yeah I'd hate to be right on one when it went off
[20:12:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: That blast door WAS suppose to survive an F5
[20:12:48] <Tom_L> jdhnc, which 7i47 file are you looking at?
[20:12:54] <Tom_L> i don't think mine has a drawing
[20:13:02] <Jymmm> and is, um "FEMA Rated"
[20:13:05] <pfred1> ah preppers
[20:13:12] <ReadError> hmmm
[20:13:16] <ReadError> gotta reverse 1 axis
[20:13:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: its a show on Discovery Channel
[20:13:38] <pfred1> yeah I've seen it
[20:13:45] <Tom_L> Jymmm i saw the bunker show
[20:14:08] <Tom_L> did you see the one with the torch as a stair rail?
[20:14:19] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Got MArshmellows =)
[20:14:39] <Jymmm> Tom_L: I thought it was a pretty good idea actually
[20:14:47] <pfred1> when the world ends none of this stuff is going to help anyone
[20:15:03] <Tom_L> if you were in that desparate situation and all form of law had broken down i suppose
[20:15:29] <Jymmm> Tom_L: WROL is the term they use
[20:15:33] <Tom_L> it may just turn into the hatfields and mccoys again though
[20:15:54] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Mad Max
[20:16:07] <pfred1> yup you're going to have to be mobile
[20:16:49] <pfred1> first off if you're in a ubnker how long before you get cabin fever?
[20:17:09] <Jymmm> pfred1: you get gameboys for that!
[20:17:42] <pfred1> peole can't handle being snowed in for 3 days
[20:18:08] <Jymmm> some of those bunkers were nice... 48" lcd, etc
[20:18:16] <pfred1> gilded cage
[20:18:32] <Tom_L> Jymmm what if the cable went out?
[20:18:48] <Jymmm> Tom_L: I think they had dvds =)
[20:19:06] <pfred1> how many times can you watch the same thing?
[20:19:11] <Tom_L> heh really
[20:19:19] <pfred1> it doesn't work
[20:19:28] <Jymmm> Well, I'd hope they wouldn't watch movies 24/7/365
[20:19:40] <pfred1> what else are you going to do?
[20:19:52] <Jymmm> sit on irc making cnc machines?
[20:19:55] <pfred1> you're in a hole!
[20:20:02] <Tom_L> the ones i think are cool are the old abandoned silos
[20:20:20] <Jymmm> Tom_L: those are kinda creepy thogh
[20:20:32] <Tom_L> we had a bunch of em around here
[20:20:35] <pfred1> I just read a book called level 4 about missile silos after a nuke war
[20:20:54] <pfred1> it didn't end well
[20:21:03] <Jymmm> pfred1: Tom_L http://www.missilebases.com/
[20:21:07] <Jymmm> buy your own
[20:21:15] <Tom_L> i've probably seen that
[20:21:45] <Jymmm> icbm not included
[20:21:46] <pfred1> just find their air pipes and plug them up
[20:22:10] <pfred1> bend that pipe over they're done
[20:25:47] <pfred1> yeah but if it failed who cares what's he gonna do sue you?
[20:27:26] <Jymmm> I'd think they would have a contingancy plan for that
[20:27:38] <pfred1> yeah hold your breath
[20:28:06] <Tom_L> Jymmm, have you ordered from PMDX?
[20:28:13] <Jymmm> originally they had LOX so, no biggy.
[20:28:18] <Jymmm> Tom_L: neve
[20:28:36] <Jymmm> Tom_L: you considering the $100 heatsink?
[20:28:43] <Tom_L> you linked that heat sink the other day
[20:28:55] <Jymmm> Tom_L: google is my friend
[20:29:01] <Tom_L> figured you got a commisison
[20:29:01] <pfred1> he welds with short sleeves?
[20:29:07] <Tom_L> sp*
[20:29:23] <Jymmm> Tom_L: Nope, just googled 203 heatsink or some such thing
[20:29:41] <Tom_L> i got the mpg from them
[20:30:24] <Jymmm> Tom_L: you should look at the ebay links I gave
[20:30:45] <Jymmm> Tom_L: those were the type of hatsinks that parker calls for
[20:30:52] <Jymmm> for their drives
[20:32:25] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/THREE-CNC-Geckodrive-G-203V-ONE-YEAR-FACTORY-WARRANTY-steppr-motor-Drvr-W-EXTRAS-/290664602039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43acf5d9b7
[20:32:27] <Tom_L> mmm
[20:32:35] <Tom_L> not sure i'd trust that
[20:33:20] <pfred1> the only doomsday prepping you need is a nice bottle of whiskey
[20:33:29] <pfred1> and a lawn chair
[20:33:38] <Tom_L> haha, his extras are the current limit resistors :)
[20:34:53] <Jymmm> oh gawd... we dont know the repeatability... http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Proximity-Limit-Detector-stepper-servo-motor-/330513407054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf4225c4e
[20:35:37] <Tom_L> maybe he doesn't
[20:36:05] <Jymmm> I'm thinking of making a hand crank generator, maybe 25 watts or so. What type of motor would be best?
[20:36:25] <Tom_L> get an old tnt detinator
[20:36:49] <Tom_L> or antique phone
[20:37:02] <Jymmm> 12-24vdc
[20:37:10] <Jymmm> not 100vac
[20:37:17] <pcw_home> small rare earth AC servo motor
[20:37:34] <pcw_home> three phase rect
[20:37:36] <Jymmm> pcw_home: example link?
[20:38:02] <Jymmm> pcw_home: of the ac srvo
[20:38:04] <pcw_home> anaheim automation. keiling etc
[20:38:36] <Jymmm> pcw_home: um, I want dc, but you mentioned ac servo
[20:38:45] <pcw_home> tough part is gearing it up enough and a rugged handle
[20:38:56] <Jymmm> hang on a sec...
[20:39:29] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/l2zsk.jpg
[20:39:37] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/avG9L.jpg
[20:40:03] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I found this for big amps, but I'm talking something pocket sized http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgRT6WAStaE
[20:42:15] <pcw_home> DC motor brush drag is fairly painful (which is why I suggested the AC)
[20:42:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ah
[20:42:44] <pcw_home> is this for battery charging?
[20:42:46] <Jymmm> and the wiper motor is dc brush?
[20:42:52] <pcw_home> Yes
[20:43:03] <Jymmm> pcw_home: the video or the pocket sized you mean?
[20:43:09] <pcw_home> (but does come with a handy gearbox)
[20:43:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Yeah, I'll have to hit the junk yard one day
[20:43:52] <pcw_home> your application
[20:43:58] <Jymmm> pcw_home: the pocket one is to recharge batteries, lighting and radios
[20:44:47] <Jymmm> I'm not sure how a batery that needs to be charged over 4hours is gonna work on a crank generator though
[20:45:19] <Jymmm> but I have a few 99¢ crank flashlights that work, till you drop them =)
[20:45:52] <pcw_home> 4 hours is a pretty sore arm
[20:45:59] <Jymmm> I was thinking an old fashoin foot powered sewing machine attachement
[20:46:54] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKEFohfxAs8
[20:46:56] <Jymmm> like that
[20:47:09] <pcw_home> water wheel/fabric windmill attachmenst?
[20:47:34] <Jymmm> No, the sewing machien thign works, I've used one of those long ago, very easy
[20:48:05] <pcw_home> and of course bicycle attachments
[20:48:07] <Jymmm> you press down, and it comes back up on it's own, then you press down again
[20:48:22] <Jymmm> very little fatigure
[20:48:36] <Jymmm> more like tapping your foot to music
[20:48:45] <Tecan> u guys like my room ?
[20:49:09] <Jymmm> pcw_home: But, I want to generate power, not make clothes =)
[20:49:59] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I also need to figure out how to waterproof the shaft
[20:50:07] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/ukIeN.jpg
[20:50:16] <pcw_home> I still have my grandmothers treadle sewing machine
[20:50:32] <Jymmm> pcw_home: treadle?
[20:51:15] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: tractor powered cnc?
[20:51:49] <Jymmm> takeoff attachment?
[20:52:24] <Jymmm> pcw_home: is there something I could salvage a rare earth ac servo motor from?
[20:53:42] <pcw_home> some newer washing machines have PMSMs (basically the same thing)
[20:54:15] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I'm talkgn dumpster/craiglist diving
[20:54:49] <pcw_home> dont know off hand
[20:54:54] <ReadError> hmmm
[20:54:55] <jdhnc> before you drill & tap the panel, make sure that 6/32 bolts actually fit through the holes
[20:55:06] <ReadError> is there a way to scale this sample
[20:55:10] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ok
[20:55:16] <ReadError> its trying to draw it suuuuuper small
[20:56:07] <pcw_home> jdhnc .125 holes so 4-40 or 3 mm
[20:57:41] <jdhnc> yeah, I even measured the hole... I was just thinking 6 was smaller.
[20:59:03] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[21:11:57] <ReadError> hey
[21:11:59] <ReadError> alex4nder,
[21:12:01] <ReadError> or joe9
[21:12:05] <ReadError> microstepping?
[21:12:48] <alex4nder> they're tiny steps
[21:12:52] <alex4nder> using elf shoes
[21:12:58] <ReadError> yea
[21:13:03] <ReadError> but
[21:13:07] <ReadError> i need them dont i ?
[21:13:16] <ReadError> it was drawing super tiny pictures
[21:13:16] <alex4nder> yah, your G540 uses them
[21:13:20] <ReadError> so
[21:13:22] <ReadError> 8?
[21:13:23] <Jymmm> ReadError: you need elf shoes?
[21:13:36] <ReadError> certainly
[21:13:46] <Jymmm> oh, well,o okey then =)
[21:13:51] <ReadError> it seems go further
[21:13:54] <alex4nder> ReadError: 10
[21:13:57] <ReadError> when microstepping is on
[21:15:36] <ReadError> also
[21:15:40] <ReadError> its backwards kinda
[21:15:50] <ReadError> when i start the emc demo
[21:15:53] <ReadError> it goes up and out
[21:16:00] <joe9> ReadError: where do you see the "microstepping"?
[21:16:03] <ReadError> so do i need to use negative lenght?
[21:16:20] <ReadError> like from my perspective
[21:16:23] <ReadError> its upsidedown
[21:16:27] <ReadError> going the other direction
[21:18:13] <alex4nder> you need to invert the backwards axis
[21:30:03] <jdhnc> PCW: is the pwm output inverted?
[21:32:45] <ReadError> i think i hit a milestone alex4nder!
[21:32:47] <ReadError> pic enroute
[21:33:29] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/ArIcM8xCEAACEFi.jpg:large
[21:33:36] <ReadError> i had to like hold it with my finger
[21:33:38] <ReadError> the sharpie
[21:33:38] <ReadError> ;)
[21:38:05] <Tecan> whats the best type of saw to use on aluminum to get scrap back ?
[21:38:13] <Tecan> like the filings
[21:38:44] <alex4nder> Tecan: like to collect them?
[21:38:44] <ReadError> i use a jigsaw+hacksaw blade
[21:38:52] <alex4nder> ReadError: congratulations
[21:38:55] <ReadError> then hit it with a file
[21:39:05] <ReadError> alex4nder: but you see what im saying ?
[21:39:14] <ReadError> its like rotated strange
[21:39:19] <ReadError> i had to start it in the far back right corner
[21:39:28] <ReadError> i want to start it in front left corner
[21:39:28] <alex4nder> ReadError: yah, your Z is backwards and so is your X
[21:39:37] <ReadError> but they move right in the arrows
[21:39:38] <alex4nder> er Y is backwards
[21:39:42] <djdelorie> if you invert both X and Y, you rotate it 180 degrees
[21:39:52] <ReadError> the arrow keys i mean
[21:40:02] <alex4nder> your perspective on the arrow keys is wrong
[21:40:17] <alex4nder> movement is relative to the work
[21:40:27] <djdelorie> rotate your keyboard and/or machine so that the arrow keys point in the same physical direction as the jogs they cause
[21:40:28] <ReadError> so, do i just flip the invert on direction box?
[21:40:35] <alex4nder> yes
[21:40:47] <alex4nder> and make sure that when you send Z positive, it moves up
[21:41:19] <ReadError> im just glad its somewhat mechanically sound
[21:41:22] <alex4nder> that's great.
[21:41:26] <ReadError> :O
[21:41:32] <ReadError> i can change the configs up later
[21:43:22] <ReadError> im kind of confused about home value
[21:43:26] <djdelorie> note on jogging direction: if your table is the moving part, jogging left should move the table RIGHT so that the pen moves "right" relative to the table
[21:43:27] <ReadError> if i set 1 as home for x
[21:43:46] <ReadError> is that 1" over the last thread usable on x axis?
[21:44:10] <ReadError> ohhh
[21:44:13] <ReadError> that makes sense
[21:44:19] <ReadError> my perspective is wrong
[21:44:25] <ReadError> whats super strange is
[21:44:33] <ReadError> i had 0 or 1 for microstep
[21:44:41] <djdelorie> whatever coordinate you gave for the home switch is where the home switch "is" and everything else is relative to that
[21:44:43] <ReadError> it was doing like incredibly small pictures
[21:44:44] <Tecan> who makes their own stepper drivers here ?
[21:45:05] <ReadError> djdelorie does i think Tecan
[21:45:13] <djdelorie> I made my own servo driver
[21:45:33] <Tecan> are those linsteppers good ?
[21:46:12] <Tecan> or you just did a custom h bridge ?
[21:46:52] <djdelorie> Tecan: I used a three-phase driver chip: http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[21:47:48] <Tecan> hall encoder hmm
[21:48:37] <Tecan> djdelorie u do the pcb too ?
[21:48:44] <djdelorie> yup, and the firmware
[21:48:55] <Tecan> nice
[21:49:19] <Jymmm> djdelorie CAN?
[21:49:31] <djdelorie> YES, DJDELORIE CAN!!! ;-)
[21:49:59] <Jymmm> hahaha
[21:50:16] <Jymmm> djdelorie: realbus drivers =)
[21:50:30] <djdelorie> the chips have CAN built-in, you just need a cheap transceiver chip, it was trivial to add it and worry about how useful it is later
[21:50:48] <djdelorie> I figure I can at least broadcast operation status on them for a status panel or something
[21:51:24] <Jymmm> djdelorie: heh, I dont really know much of anything about CAN bus
[21:51:38] <djdelorie> but CAN might be deterministic enough to use it as a connection between linuxcnc and the machine
[21:55:13] <alex4nder> it is if your LinuxCNC box has a decent CAN controller hooked up to a reasonable bus (e.g. not USB)
[21:55:27] <djdelorie> yeah, it would have to be a pci/pcie CAn card
[23:06:18] <CareBear\> alex4nder : USB is awesome
[23:06:34] <CareBear\> alex4nder : just not for the linuxcnc architecture
[23:12:10] <alex4nder> CareBear\: USB isn't awesome for CAN
[23:12:33] <alex4nder> or anything else that you care about determinism and latency
[23:12:46] * djdelorie wonders if the 480mbit USB is better enough
[23:13:09] <alex4nder> it's a bit better
[23:13:53] <CareBear\> alex4nder : there is perfect determinism in all USB
[23:14:04] <alex4nder> alright, you win.
[23:14:12] <CareBear\> alex4nder : it's just not designed to be fast enough for what linuxcnc needs
[23:14:29] <CareBear\> (by all USB I mean all speeds)
[23:15:05] <CareBear\> in particular USB is not designed for round trips
[23:15:19] <CareBear\> it is optimized for somehow independent input and output
[23:16:11] <CareBear\> so it's a bad fit for linuxcnc which requires constant measurement and reaction
[23:17:28] <Tecan> does it get much reaction other than limit switches ?
[23:17:44] <CareBear\> compensation?
[23:17:53] <CareBear\> from feedback
[23:17:56] <CareBear\> or based on
[23:18:05] <Tecan> it just sends the steps i thought
[23:18:15] <CareBear\> there is no feedback?
[23:18:23] <alex4nder> not in most people's setups.
[23:18:27] <CareBear\> um
[23:18:42] <alex4nder> but the ones that are complicated (like servos) do
[23:18:49] <CareBear\> that's, um, I see
[23:19:05] <CareBear\> well without feedback of course it's super easy to use USB
[23:19:25] <CareBear\> you just need to establish timebase difference between linuxcnc and the microcontroller firmware
[23:19:42] <CareBear\> or rather, provide timestamps from linuxcnc using the microcontroller timebase
[23:19:44] <djdelorie> except my servos, because, of course, my setup is different than pretty much everything else on the planet. As usual :-P
[23:20:18] <djdelorie> CareBear\: USB2 is not fast enough anyway; 1ms per cycle
[23:20:20] <CareBear\> and let the microcontroller shoot out control with perfect timing, because you know, it is only doing one thing
[23:20:26] <CareBear\> djdelorie : not so
[23:20:38] <Tecan> carebear some boards have gcode interpreters built into them too
[23:20:51] <CareBear\> djdelorie : USB 2.0 first of all does not imply high speed.
[23:20:53] <djdelorie> only if linuxcnc can hand more intelligence off to the controller cards
[23:20:59] <alex4nder> right
[23:21:08] <CareBear\> obviously it must
[23:21:15] <alex4nder> well obvious to some
[23:21:23] <djdelorie> but then you have to coordinate timing across all the controllers
[23:21:25] <CareBear\> and when there is no feedback that becomes really trivial
[23:21:37] <djdelorie> no, not trivial
[23:21:45] <Tecan> move buffer's would work without the timestamp thing
[23:21:55] <djdelorie> the controllers still need to coordinate steps across all axes to follow the path accurately
[23:22:14] <djdelorie> and 12 mbit/sec USB is still just not fast enough
[23:22:15] <CareBear\> djdelorie : the scheduling was already created by linuxcnc right?
[23:22:36] <Tecan> djdelorie how fast is the printerport ?
[23:22:57] <djdelorie> PP is about 100x faster than usb, on a per-command basis
[23:23:13] <CareBear\> now you are just trolling!
[23:23:18] <CareBear\> :)
[23:23:37] <djdelorie> usb polling is 1ms granularity
[23:24:00] <CareBear\> no
[23:24:15] <CareBear\> a full speed frame is 1ms
[23:24:28] <CareBear\> but more than one packet fit into a frame
[23:24:57] <djdelorie> but you don't know where that packet goes, so your timing granularity is still 1ms
[23:25:05] <djdelorie> it's like having a jitter of 1000000
[23:25:23] <CareBear\> the bus is not used for timing
[23:25:27] <CareBear\> the bus is used to transfer data
[23:25:38] <CareBear\> the data contains instructions on what to do when
[23:25:47] <djdelorie> to do any better, you need to have intelligence on the device end of the USB link, and at that point, you're basically writing another linuxcnc
[23:25:47] <CareBear\> as long as data arrives before "when" all is good
[23:26:13] <CareBear\> we had this discussion a while ago
[23:26:29] <CareBear\> but what changed is the information that there is really no feedback
[23:26:59] <djdelorie> even without feedback, stepper timing needs to be coordinated across axes
[23:27:02] <CareBear\> this makes it much easier to let linuxcnc run "ahead of time" and get the controller instructions in advance
[23:27:21] <CareBear\> sure - a given micro will have more than one timer so it can do more than one axis
[23:27:44] <CareBear\> when timers run out it becomes more difficult, but I think it's easy enough to find a few micros with three timers
[23:28:03] <djdelorie> heh.. the rx has zillions of timers, *that* isn't the problem
[23:29:20] <CareBear\> share the peripheral clock for them and the common timebase is established
[23:29:30] <CareBear\> the control clock domain starts there
[23:29:44] <djdelorie> the problem is writing the software to do it all
[23:29:55] <djdelorie> linuxcnc already does it all
[23:30:04] <alex4nder> djdelorie: I think the software is the "trivial" part. ;)
[23:30:13] <CareBear\> I actually think so too
[23:30:21] <CareBear\> not that I've ever looked at linuxcnc code
[23:30:22] <djdelorie> you basically end up rewriting linuxcnc to run on your mcu, and feed it gcode
[23:30:23] <CareBear\> but still
[23:30:28] <alex4nder> djdelorie: exactly
[23:30:30] <CareBear\> well that's one way
[23:30:36] <CareBear\> but I think that's way too "fat"
[23:30:39] <alex4nder> or compiled g-code
[23:30:43] <djdelorie> and *that* only works if you have *one* mcu. I have three.
[23:30:53] <alex4nder> CareBear\: the point is it's not "trivial" .. a lot of work has gone into getting LinuxCNC where it is
[23:31:01] <alex4nder> "trivial" is taking a piss
[23:31:06] <alex4nder> or putting on your shoes
[23:31:23] <CareBear\> alex4nder : what's the timebase in linuxcnc?
[23:31:29] <alex4nder> CareBear\: RTAI threads
[23:31:38] <alex4nder> with periodic firing
[23:31:43] <CareBear\> alex4nder : they get configured with a period ok
[23:31:56] <CareBear\> yeah that needs to change a little
[23:32:03] <CareBear\> or it could actually still be the same
[23:32:07] <alex4nder> it could be the same
[23:32:16] <CareBear\> just make the period a good deal shorter, and put a queue at the output
[23:32:34] <CareBear\> have the thread do nothing when the queue is full
[23:32:46] <CareBear\> ie. buffer events a bit ahead of time
[23:32:51] <CareBear\> transmit buffer to micro
[23:32:52] <alex4nder> I was looking at implementing the RT functionality on an MCU using an existing RTOS, and went through all of the LinuxCNC code.. and you'd basically have to put the kinematics, motion control, and some bit of HAL on the uC
[23:33:12] <alex4nder> and queue both directions over your control link (e.g. USB)
[23:33:22] <CareBear\> alex4nder : not talking about two directions
[23:33:32] <alex4nder> CareBear\: well how do you know where your uC actually ended up?
[23:33:34] <CareBear\> alex4nder : talking about the (apparently) common case of no feedback
[23:33:44] <alex4nder> CareBear\: you're mixing two things up
[23:33:52] <alex4nder> there's the RT feedback, and then there's the whenever feedback
[23:33:54] <CareBear\> is there feedback or not?
[23:34:02] <alex4nder> well you want to see where your mill currently is
[23:34:13] <alex4nder> that's some data that needs to be reported back to the UI
[23:34:14] <Tecan> alex thats determined by what you've sent it
[23:34:22] <alex4nder> Tecan: only if you assume your mill actually got where you asked
[23:34:38] <Tecan> thats what it does now
[23:34:38] <CareBear\> this is the essence of feedback
[23:34:42] <alex4nder> no
[23:34:43] <alex4nder> it's not
[23:34:51] <CareBear\> you guys have to fight this out
[23:34:56] <alex4nder> fight what out?
[23:34:58] <CareBear\> when you're done let me know if there's feedback or no :)
[23:35:07] <alex4nder> read the code
[23:35:17] <djdelorie> two types of feedback
[23:35:17] <CareBear\> I'd rather read the fight
[23:35:19] <alex4nder> in the long run, you have two information streams
[23:35:28] <alex4nder> feedback that's RT, and feedback that isn't
[23:35:35] <alex4nder> you can't run a servo PID loop without realtime feedback
[23:35:35] <djdelorie> what you're missing is feedback about how many instructions your mcu has actually done so far
[23:35:47] <alex4nder> right
[23:35:51] <djdelorie> the other type is the servo encoder feedback, where linuxcnc actually runs the motor control loop too
[23:36:03] <alex4nder> exactly, and they're fundamentally different in need
[23:36:18] <alex4nder> one has really hard RT requirements, one is kinda "meh" about RT
[23:36:32] <CareBear\> I know all the properties
[23:36:39] <alex4nder> then why are you asking questions?
[23:36:41] <CareBear\> but you really have to decide on if there is feedback or not
[23:37:03] <alex4nder> if you don't understand the fundamental difference between those two concepts, you don't understand enough to architect a solution
[23:37:18] <CareBear\> I understand it perfectly
[23:37:32] <Tecan> CareBear maintains libusb
[23:37:40] <CareBear\> nod
[23:37:41] <alex4nder> I know who he is.
[23:37:44] <alex4nder> I just don't think he gets it.
[23:37:47] <CareBear\> I get it
[23:37:49] <alex4nder> alright
[23:37:54] <alex4nder> let me know when the software is done.
[23:38:02] <CareBear\> point is, it was said that there is usually no feedback
[23:38:09] <CareBear\> that changes things from last time we talked about this :)
[23:38:18] <alex4nder> nope.
[23:38:19] <djdelorie> sigh. There are two types of feedback
[23:38:36] <CareBear\> djdelorie : so which type is it that there usually isn't ?
[23:38:48] <Tecan> we all understand now thanks for the enlightenment :)
[23:38:49] <djdelorie> servo feedback
[23:38:53] <CareBear\> if the statement is true only for one? :)
[23:39:06] <djdelorie> steppers do not need *real time* feedback
[23:39:14] <Tecan> thats what most use
[23:39:23] <djdelorie> right. LinuxCNC supports more than just steppers
[23:39:43] <CareBear\> that's fine - I'm not saying that a simple solution can cover all use cases
[23:39:54] <CareBear\> but maybe there is one that can cover some common ones
[23:40:19] <djdelorie> obviously you can control a CNC machine with a usb interface - look at makerbots
[23:41:00] <CareBear\> we looked at making a decent controller for the reprap
[23:41:34] <djdelorie> the more "decent" you want, the more processing power it takes to coordinate it all, and the more you need the PC to do the work with a real-time link to the hardware
[23:41:40] <CareBear\> it all just barely works because the controller is so stupid
[23:42:32] <CareBear\> I think 3 axes could be done on the larger cortex-m3s
[23:42:42] <CareBear\> or some similar class
[23:44:19] <Valen> or you just put a $100 mini-itx board in it and its all taken care of and you don't need a seperate computer to load files and such
[23:44:52] <CareBear\> absolutely
[23:47:06] <Jymmm> what are you all babbling about?
[23:47:07] <Thetawaves> i want to get a atom in pc104 format with lots of gpio
[23:47:28] <Valen> I don't think intel chips have gpio any more
[23:48:00] <Jymmm> Valen: Heh, I just found an atom board that has six, count em SIX GPIO pins =) lol
[23:48:15] <Thetawaves> Valen, yeah... i've only seen spi based gpio
[23:49:00] <Jymmm> Valen: I can take over the world now with 6 GPIO pins =)
[23:49:11] <djdelorie> check out http://pandaboard.org/ - dual-core 1GHz with lots of GPIO, it's just not an intel clone :-)
[23:49:40] <Jymmm> djdelorie: arm though
[23:49:49] <djdelorie> i.e. "it's just not an intel clone"
[23:50:07] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Ah, I thought that was a marketing slogan
[23:50:34] <Jymmm> djdelorie: "This is not your Dads truck"
[23:50:44] <Thetawaves> a lot of the atom boards have this SMSC SCH3114 SuperIO device: which has 6 gpio
[23:51:21] <Thetawaves> pandaboard is nogo for linuxcnc
[23:51:34] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NF99.html
[23:51:45] <Jymmm> $180 USD
[23:52:30] <Thetawaves> supposedly there is a cortex a8 port
[23:52:40] <Thetawaves> of rtai, pandaboard is cortex a9
[23:53:21] <Thetawaves> Jymmm, how many pins on the gpio header?
[23:53:37] <Jymmm> 8, but 6 io
[23:54:11] <djdelorie> the jetway has pci; you could just drop a mesa card in there
[23:54:52] <Thetawaves> if you want to go that route, just get a mini-itx barebones kit for 80$
[23:55:45] <kaz> has anyone here rebuilt a kernel to try and fix the SMI issue?
[23:55:50] <Thetawaves> but you have a valuable point, why recreate mesa functionality?
[23:57:54] <Jymmm> $75 USD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[23:58:47] <djdelorie> must add memory