#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-18

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[02:03:22] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:16:36] <witdraak> what does it mean if my debug say: "inifile: warning: file contain dos-style line endings"
[02:19:33] <djdelorie> that means you used a dos-style text editor to edit them, so each line ends with a CR LF pair (13/10 decimal) instead of a single NL (10 decimal) byte
[02:21:30] <witdraak> how would i get by to fix this?
[02:21:37] <Jymmm> djdelorie: What the hell do you know about DOS?! ;)
[02:22:16] <Jymmm> witdraak: Use a linux editor
[02:22:21] <Connor> OKay, What is the diff between pwm and pdm ?
[02:22:42] <witdraak> using Gedit atm
[02:23:43] <Connor> Still trying to get this stupid C6 speed controller to work.
[02:24:14] <Connor> I think I'm running into issues with the computer maxing out at 16Khz .. but need 25Khz for the C6
[02:24:42] <djdelorie> witdraak: linux comes with a dos2unix utility
[02:25:04] <djdelorie> Jymmm: I grew up on dos, created djgpp even.
[02:25:23] <Jymmm> djdelorie: (It at least USED to, not sure anymore, might be in the archives now)
[02:25:32] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I know, it was a joke =)
[02:25:55] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I stil have to hit you up on that some day too =)
[02:26:09] <djdelorie> ;-)
[02:27:12] <witdraak> im guessing it is atm the least of my problems then... will find that dos2unix util later
[02:31:19] <witdraak> i think im the noobist of all linux users...is there a think i can troubleshoot all of these error codes on linuxcnc
[02:31:38] <djdelorie> what codes? That was plain English...
[02:37:46] <witdraak> cn not find -sec IO -var IO -num 1
[02:37:57] <witdraak> can not find -sec IO -var IO -num 1
[02:38:27] <witdraak> those are one of them
[02:40:17] <witdraak> don't want to bother you guys to much with these maby easy Q's so was just wandering if there is any troubleshooting pages that will help with these kind of stuff.. also not have to read a whole 50 lines just to get one answer
[02:40:19] <awallin> witdraak: what's that? what are you trying to do?
[02:40:50] <witdraak> that is one of the errors i get when running linuxcnc in the debug section
[02:42:03] <awallin> hm, start with something simple. does the sim/axis config start & work ?
[02:43:15] <witdraak> well it all works but when i add the lines to get the gladevcp demo to work on my current program i get the errors
[02:44:58] <witdraak> is it posible to add them in line by line and check error?
[02:46:04] <awallin> I haven't worked with gladevcp, if it's anything like pyvcp there's one file that defines the UI, and a HAL-file that hooks up UI pins to linuxCNC pins. they all need to work together pretty much..
[02:48:34] <witdraak> ah im gonna add the code into my ini file one by one then check if i can get the problem
[02:55:39] <witdraak> my problem lies with "POSTGUI_HALFILE = ../gladevcp/manual-example.hal" im guessing that gives the funtionality of the ui and py file
[02:58:57] <alex_joni> witdraak: there is also dos2unix which converts lineendings
[02:59:26] <alex_joni> n/m ;)
[03:00:11] <witdraak> care to give the name of the converter? would benifit me from searching between my endless lines of dosendings
[03:00:40] <witdraak> i tiped in dos2unix and seem to not get it...
[03:01:32] <Jymmm> http://www.virtualhelp.me/linux/164-dos2unix-missing-ubuntu-1004
[03:02:04] <witdraak> and what i know about linux is "how to cut a knife" not "build a terminator"
[03:06:10] <witdraak> looks like some folklore if you ask me
[03:06:41] <Jymmm> witdraak: the alternative is to start over from scratch.
[03:06:57] <witdraak> more folklore
[03:07:35] <Jymmm> witdraak: Dude, do you want help or just want to bash everything?
[03:08:01] <witdraak> hehe yea thanx allot im trying it out but doesn't seem to work
[03:08:10] <witdraak> or i don't understand it...
[03:11:20] <archivist> or dont diagnose the error
[03:14:51] <witdraak> i will figure your dos2unix thing probably just need to sharpen the tool a bit got my gladestuff working but found a downside to mine as soon as i use one of the glade buttons up down left right seems to not work
[03:15:18] <witdraak> is that the downside of using gladevcp to using pyvcp?
[03:15:43] <witdraak> it seems to focus to the tab as a diferent program
[03:18:09] <witdraak> is there a way to make it just a push button with no focus ?
[03:38:08] <witdraak> im guessing im the only one founding that as a nuesance seing im using a keyboard emulator as a pendant...
[03:43:25] <tiago_> I don't know, but seem to be a logical way
[03:45:26] <alex_joni> witdraak: juve@eneas:~$ apt-cache search dos2unix
[03:45:26] <alex_joni> tofrodos - Converts DOS <-> Unix text files, alias tofromdos
[03:45:38] <alex_joni> dos2unix
[03:45:38] <alex_joni> dos2unix: Need to specify filename or redirect stdin.
[03:46:37] <alex_joni> witdraak: the gladevcp stuff stealing focus is a bug, and I saw some recent comments on that, maybe a fix even, not sure
[03:46:53] <alex_joni> (didn't look very closely, but a search on the mailing list might turn up something))
[03:51:25] <witdraak> will have a look
[03:51:28] <witdraak> thanx
[03:52:33] <witdraak> oh wait i don't have a mailing list...
[03:53:02] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:53:10] <witdraak> ola
[04:01:51] <witdraak> anyhow im done for today.... did post the Q in the forums maby there is someone who knows how to get the focus thing sorted out :
[04:01:55] <witdraak> :)
[04:02:04] <witdraak> o7 ciao
[04:16:42] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://peterlengyel.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/82.jpg
[04:17:12] <Jymmm> alex_joni: your back door?
[04:19:37] <Jymmm> alex_joni: If that's your secret escape route, it's not very secret anymore =)
[04:19:56] <ReadError> wouldnt want to stumble out that door to take a pee intoxicated
[04:21:56] <Jymmm> Why not? the sharp spikes on the railing would prevent you from falling.
[04:29:14] <alex_joni> Jymmm: heh, I just thought it looks cool
[04:29:28] <alex_joni> http://peterlengyel.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/87.jpg <- other side
[04:29:28] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Is it fake or real?
[04:29:31] <alex_joni> real
[04:29:59] <Jymmm> ah, ok. cool
[04:30:07] <Jymmm> where?
[04:30:48] <Tom_itx> where's the garage?
[04:52:22] <alex_joni> Jymmm: bulgaria/Lom area
[06:09:17] <ReadError> mornin yall
[07:41:27] <jdhnc> anyone have a US source for inexpensive boxes to mount drives/terminals?
[07:54:01] <Jymmm> jdhnc: your funny =)
[07:54:25] <Jymmm> jdhnc: abandond factories?
[07:55:34] <jdhnc> I could use plastic
[07:56:06] <Jymmm> jdhnc: then just use old PC cases that have been gutted
[07:56:21] <Jymmm> it'll keep EMI/RFI down too
[07:56:59] <jdhnc> There was a big dumpster outside one of the buildings the other week with an old machine that had been trashed. Full of 80/20 extrusion, prox switches, cylinders, control cabinets... all scrapped.
[07:57:35] <Jymmm> you should have went dumpster diving then
[07:57:42] <jdhnc> PC case is my fall back, but one of my drives is pretty big and not shaped well for a small case.
[07:57:47] <jdhnc> can't take any of it.
[07:57:56] <Jymmm> why?
[07:58:03] <jdhnc> policy
[07:58:13] <Jymmm> did you ask?
[07:58:20] <jdhnc> of course
[07:58:36] <Jymmm> did you get a buddy to ask or just get it for you?
[07:58:38] <jdhnc> people unofficially take stuff like that, but it is considered theft if they want it to be.
[07:59:14] <Jymmm> what about buying it for $1/lb ?
[07:59:39] <Jymmm> or some such thing
[07:59:44] <jdhnc> there is a policy for that too. Has to go through some committee, then put up for all employee purchase
[08:00:08] <Jymmm> oh gawd
[08:00:19] <jdhnc> there are 100+ PC's waiting to be scrapped. Can't take the cases either.
[08:02:57] <Jymmm> you poor bastard
[08:03:21] <Jymmm> almost everyone here dumpster dives, except you =)
[08:04:45] <jdhnc> just not from work.
[08:05:06] <jdhnc> we are in a security fence with armed guards.
[08:05:12] <Jymmm> didn't you just say that everything you need for cnc is in the dumpster at work?
[08:05:33] <jdhnc> pretty much.
[08:05:48] <Jymmm> Oh that's an idea.... make a cnc FOR work, but grab enough parts to make three
[08:06:12] <Jymmm> It's still company property then
[08:06:42] <Jymmm> and gets around the BS policies too
[08:07:25] <Valen> "policy" like that shits me
[10:50:14] * archivist wonders if rob_h got to mach today what should I look out for tomorrow
[11:10:11] <Connor> Anyone around?
[11:10:17] <archivist> no
[11:10:43] <Connor> Having some issues with stepgen. I've set it up to generate a 25Khz signal for my C6 Speed control.. works okay up till around 16Khz, then goes really strange.
[11:12:48] <archivist> but what is your base thread set to
[11:13:16] <Connor> base-thread: I've had as low as 15000
[11:13:35] <cradek> can you describe goes really strange?
[11:14:23] <Connor> Sure. after about 16Khz, it jumps around allot betwen 20 and 25Khz.
[11:14:47] <Connor> I've never seen anything between 16 and 20
[11:15:08] <cradek> how are you measuring it?
[11:15:11] <Connor> Hal Scope says otherwise. but my digital O-Scope doesn't confirm hal scope.
[11:15:32] <archivist> aliasing
[11:15:34] <Connor> and the C6 doesn't respond correctly either.
[11:15:38] <cradek> you do understand that the output can only change when the base period runs, right?
[11:16:08] <Connor> cradek: Yea.
[11:16:27] <cradek> when you're up near the output changing every period or two, you're going to see a lot of granularity
[11:16:52] <cradek> can the C6 be made to use lower frequencies?
[11:17:09] <Connor> No. I think I'm switching it out for a C41 which use PWM.
[11:17:16] <archivist> it does have adjustment so probably
[11:17:28] <cradek> (I don't know anything about it)
[11:17:29] <Connor> archivist: That's for voltage limit
[11:17:51] <archivist> Connor, /gain which is what you want to change
[11:18:17] <Connor> let me link to the standard config for this thing..
[11:18:30] <archivist> run a lower max F and increase the voltage so it is 10 at that freq
[11:18:58] <Connor> http://cnc4pc.com/Files/EMC2.txt
[11:19:25] <Connor> I started with that.
[11:19:45] <Connor> based on what I can tell.. that puts out a max of 1.3Khz.
[11:20:33] <Connor> well.. maybe not.. not sure what the net effect of the scale gain is on that one.
[11:20:52] <Connor> I think my base thread is just too high and my machine can't handle much lower.
[11:21:09] <jdhnc> why this over PWM?
[11:21:30] <Connor> jdhnc: Cause I didn't notice the PWM and this is what other people were using.
[11:21:33] <cradek> it does seem like that will have a max of 1.3kHz, with 1300 units/sec and 1 pulse/unit
[11:22:14] <cradek> so maybe full output for this device is 1.3kHz
[11:22:31] <Connor> no. It's clearly indicated in the manual to be 25Khz.
[11:23:30] <Connor> "This card requires a 25 KHz input signal to deliver 10VDC"
[11:24:38] <Connor> I've changed maxvel to 2500 and position-scale to 10
[11:25:04] <Connor> that's how I managed to get up to 16Khz, but, anything beyond is like I said.
[11:25:53] <cradek> what's your base period now?
[11:28:19] <cradek> what are you driving with this analog output?
[11:29:46] <Connor> It's replacing the wiper on the mill speed control.
[11:30:27] <Connor> cradek: I don't know now.. I'll have to go look.. I've been changing it. I've tride 25000, 15000 and maybe even 10000
[11:30:29] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-050103-Center-Finder-Shank/dp/B002SG7PPM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1V6OLUXV8Z3IJ&colid=1HD36PD3VHG5C
[11:30:31] <ReadError> any good?
[11:30:47] <Connor> of course, I start getting errors on lower values.
[11:31:54] <pcw_home> you probably need that reset option on stepgen to get that high a frequency
[11:32:17] <Connor> reset option ?
[11:36:43] <jdhnc> This guy has a HAL example for his C6 driving a lathe spindle: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=10&id=11151#11277
[11:37:09] <Connor> Yea. I've tried that one too..
[11:38:58] <Connor> What I don't understand is, the maxvel is 1250.. so, he would only get 1.25khz..
[11:39:41] <Connor> Maybe it has to do with the gain on the scaling ?
[11:40:01] <jdhnc> I thougt that was max scaled rpm
[11:40:40] <Connor> I don't know. I've never done anything with step gen.
[11:44:10] <Connor> In the end.. Looks like just using raw freq is overkill with PWM option exist...
[11:45:02] <jdhnc> are you using a plain p-port?
[11:45:19] <Connor> using it via C10 BOB
[11:45:45] <Connor> and they say it needs to be buffered.. which the C10 BOB does.
[11:47:42] <joe9> my first gcode program to write the alphabet S: http://codepad.org/6lT3oiHY
[11:48:16] <joe9> any feedback would be great. it works, but, anything that I need to add to the program will be helpful.
[11:50:39] <jdhnc> what is your Z 0? bottom of work?
[11:54:44] <jdhnc> since you asked, and remember my opinion is likely suspect... I would either use Nxxxx everywhere or nowhere. I would specify G0/G1 on each line that has motion, and probably woudn't do the G92. Why switch back to inches
[12:09:32] <rob_h> i have returned archivist
[12:10:45] <archivist> rob_h, I missed out today had a delivery to wait in for, going tomorrow, anything good?
[12:10:58] <rob_h> drives and controls show section is quite dead not alot worth there, big names are not there also, Yaskawa , baldor etc
[12:11:23] <rob_h> machine side again afew big players not there but your normal are there, but no machines on show that make you go, thats what i want
[12:11:57] <rob_h> nice range of machines this year tho on show
[12:12:09] <joe9> jdhnc: thanks. Z = 0 was the top. the Z -ve value is closer to the workpiece
[12:12:26] <joe9> jdhnc: what is the point to using Nxx? is there a need to use them?
[12:12:31] <archivist> rob_h, I like watching the citizen sliding heads
[12:12:54] <rob_h> nice show case of small companys tho this year which is good, got to speak some tool supplies
[12:13:03] <rob_h> yea they have quite a stand this year
[12:13:14] <Optic> hmm no reply from sheetcam email support
[12:13:50] <joe9> anyone using this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples#Single_button_probe_touchoff
[12:13:51] <rob_h> archivist, on the leader stand(leadwell) they have a nice small 8 axes lathe twin spindle quite nice money too 50/60k
[12:14:00] <archivist> rob_h, what I dont like is the daily spam from the organisers
[12:14:10] <rob_h> o too right
[12:14:21] <rob_h> y this year setup a junk email address to use
[12:14:21] <archivist> bar stewards
[12:14:33] <rob_h> any one i wanted to send me details i gave them card etc
[12:15:22] <joe9> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems is there a better place to understand coordinate systems?
[12:16:28] <joe9> i am trying to understand what the "touch off" button of the axis gui does?
[12:16:55] <djdelorie> touching off sets the part origin to be wherever the tool happens to be
[12:16:58] <jdhnc> sets the workpiece origin
[12:17:44] <djdelorie> example: you want to carve a logo, you load the "carve-logo" gcode, it assumes it will be carving at (0,0,0) so you move the tool to where you want the logo and touch off there
[12:17:47] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/axis.html
[12:18:10] <archivist> rob_h, ah that reminds me to make up some cards for the day
[12:20:03] <joe9> "touch off" is similar to this: G92 X00 Y00 Z00
[12:20:15] <cradek> no it's not
[12:20:32] <cradek> it's similar to various G10 invocations
[12:20:43] <joe9> cradek: ok, thanks.
[12:20:50] <cradek> in fact everything you do in the touch-off dialog issues a G10 command
[12:21:05] <cradek> reading the G10 docs and the AXIS docs will give you a very full picture
[12:21:17] <cradek> nothing you do in touch-off issues a G92 command
[12:21:24] <IchGuckLive> i got a question : if i increase the Voltige from 24 to 48 volt is the Watts of the powersorce the same request i see no amps on the meter out on 24V i see 5A
[12:25:02] <joe9> what does "classic ladder" do? i found this page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples
[12:25:14] <joe9> but, I have no clue what problem it is trying to address.
[12:25:23] <joe9> does everyone need "classic ladder"?
[12:26:22] <IchGuckLive> no its just a simple if then logic with relays
[12:26:45] <IchGuckLive> fore extra options toolchanger turret
[12:27:14] <archivist> IchGuckLive, depends, are you asking about motor current with a current controlled driver or current into a resistive load
[12:27:47] <pcw_home> IchGuckLive: for step drives the idle power would be about the same for a 24 pr 48V PS
[12:27:49] <pcw_home> (so 48V would be 1/2 the current)
[12:27:59] <pcw_home> (at the PS)
[12:28:39] <IchGuckLive> archivist: i only messured the power out of the source i also changed from Serial to parallel and gave it a 4A per motor on the stage but see nothing at the amp meter
[12:29:02] <IchGuckLive> it works the powerstage also gives noice if the motors hook in
[12:29:57] <pcw_home> depending on the motor resistance you may only have a few 100 mA at 48V when the motors are stopped
[12:29:57] <IchGuckLive> i woudt like to change all 26 mashines in this config thrfor it saves monex if i can go down with the powersource
[12:30:42] <IchGuckLive> this is my guess its to low or to fast to messure with a meter
[12:31:15] <IchGuckLive> the source hs 320W for 5Motors at 4,2A per phase
[12:32:21] <pcw_home> sometimes DVMs dont deal well with the switching noise
[12:34:13] <pcw_home> you should see more PS current with the motors running
[12:37:38] <alex4nder> gents
[12:37:39] <Connor> okay, so, what would the stepgen and scale settings need to be to get the 25kz setup for 100-2500 RPM Spindle (and base thread if I need to adjust that)
[12:37:58] <Connor> I'm going to give this one more go and if it doesn't work, swap this thing out for a C41 speed controller that works on PWM>
[12:38:13] <IchGuckLive> i will also check this ones mre tomorrow i think also the dial meter has a current flow direction maybe wrong connected
[12:40:33] <pcw_home> Connor: how short a base period can you run error free?
[12:40:53] <Connor> I dunno. I'm just trying to see if I can even get this to work at this point.
[12:41:06] <Connor> It's running on a Dual Core 1.8ghz Atom.
[12:41:23] <MattyMatt> I need to read up on G10 v G92 too. I've been using G92 on reprap thinking it was exact equiv of touching off
[12:41:28] <pcw_home> 25 KHz is reachable with a 40 KHz base thread and that reset doohickey
[12:41:35] <pcw_home> 40 usec
[12:41:53] <Connor> reset doohickey ?
[12:42:30] <Connor> So, base-thread @ 40000 ?
[12:42:43] <pcw_home> setp parport.0.reset-time NNNN
[12:42:56] <MattyMatt> half price hand scrapers in UK, for anyone doing a gingery -> http://www.toolbox.co.uk/faithfull-engineers-hand-4273-83275
[12:43:02] <Connor> okay, and what does NNNN need to be at..
[12:43:15] <Connor> I think I've seen that in my setup.. and it already has a number..
[12:43:45] <pcw_home> reset is used so the stepgen can generate a pulse per thread invocation
[12:43:47] <pcw_home> (rather than a pulse every 2 invocations)
[12:44:33] <pcw_home> doe the BOB have a minimum pulse width spec? (the reset line needs that number)
[12:44:38] <pcw_home> does
[12:44:43] <jdhnc> Matty: what's a 'gingery'?
[12:45:34] <Connor> 10ns ?
[12:45:38] <MattyMatt> and on the subject of cheapskates. this chinese 4-axis is 100 times better with this done (X&Y only fixed so far in this pic) http://i.imgur.com/WJDu3.jpg
[12:46:00] <Connor> Typical signal Delay says 10ns, and Max operation freq is 4 Mhz
[12:46:03] <MattyMatt> jdhnc, Gingery lathe with home cast and hand scraped alu bed
[12:46:54] <jdhnc> are you bypassing optos with that or what?
[12:46:59] <MattyMatt> yep
[12:47:19] <MattyMatt> optos that were pointless anyway, as there's a buffer before them
[12:47:25] <pcw_home> for the frequency to voltage converter?
[12:47:46] <pcw_home> 10 ns seems fast for that
[12:47:59] <Connor> ok. so. the reset value ?
[12:48:20] <Connor> Looks like i have to set stepspace to 0
[12:48:30] <Connor> steplen to 1
[12:48:43] <Connor> let me look and see what the reset-time is.
[12:48:44] <Connor> brb
[12:49:02] <pcw_home> But since the PP cannot make pulses shorter than about 1 uSec, minimum reste time should be fine
[12:49:10] <pcw_home> reset
[12:50:45] <Connor> okay. reset is 1200
[12:52:15] <jdhnc> shoudln't steplen be much higher than 1?
[12:53:45] <Connor> jdhnc: I dunno..
[12:55:09] <pcw_home> I dont know where the reset thing is documented
[12:55:10] <pcw_home> I would think it sets the step length if used
[12:55:22] <jdhnc> perhaps thread-time/desired freq?
[12:56:46] <jdhnc> I should mention that I'm being forced to write vb.net code so my judgement is perhaps unsound.
[12:57:07] <pcw_home> yeah it in the stepgen manual (stepspace 0, steplen < 1 period)
[12:57:57] <Connor> okay. so parport reset value ?
[12:58:22] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Unless I actually see the gun pointed at your head and verify it is in fact loaded, nobody is FORCING you.
[12:58:36] <jdhnc> would this be simplified (and more robust) with a 5i25/7i43?
[12:58:58] <jdhnc> Jymm: there are other forces in the world, and everything is relative.
[12:59:39] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Bullpucky, you could simply deny all knowledge of such things.
[12:59:51] <Jymmm> VBwhat?
[13:00:10] <Jymmm> PH&J?
[13:00:10] <jdhnc> I am paid pretty well to do whatever is needed.
[13:00:21] <Jymmm> jdhnc: So?
[13:00:43] <Connor> probably would be easier with a 5i25, but I don't have one..
[13:00:48] <Jymmm> So are hookers, but even they have standards unlike you!
[13:00:52] <jdhnc> Connor, you could!
[13:01:05] <jdhnc> buy 5, I'll take two.
[13:01:23] <Connor> yea. tight on $$.. I would probably be better off swapping this C6 for a C41 which works with PWM
[13:01:40] <Connor> which might be exactly what I do if I can't get this to work in the next 30 minutes or so.
[13:01:58] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Hell man, even crack whores have standards!
[13:02:37] <jdhnc> Jymmm: maybe. I actually got propositioned by a crack whore in teh harbor freight parking lot last night.
[13:02:45] <jdhnc> well, not sure about the crack part.
[13:03:23] <alex4nder> hot
[13:03:55] <pcw_home> Probably need a new 5I25 config for that bob
[13:03:55] <pcw_home> and you still need to understand the position scale stuff
[13:03:55] <pcw_home> (the hardware stepgen is set up very similarly to the software stepgen)
[13:03:55] <pcw_home> so if you can do it with PP no need for 5I25
[13:04:32] <jdhnc> steplen 40000, stepspace 0 should give 25khz?
[13:04:40] <Jymmm> jdhnc: See, s/he at least only goes for the living. You on the other hand endorse, promote, and help in developing the world oldest and most profitable virus in the world!
[13:05:22] <pcw_home> steplen 1 stepspace 0, then set stepgen velocity appropriately
[13:05:58] <pcw_home> (and PP reset time 1000 or so)
[13:06:05] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: is 15µs =15000ns
[13:06:05] <IchGuckLive> or 150000
[13:06:20] <jdhnc> yeah, I can live with it. It is just a HMI/oracle interface. The real stuff is done in a PLC and some compumotor controllers.
[13:06:48] <Jymmm> jdhnc: oracle iface? for what?
[13:07:56] <jdhnc> jymmm: check product release, operator qualifications, product specs, engineering assembly validation, stuff
[13:08:29] <Jymmm> jdhnc: and that goes to the PLC?
[13:09:36] <jdhnc> jymmm: yeah, it does some supervisory stuff too though
[13:10:21] <jdhnc> I could probably do it in a canned HMI/SCADA package, but that is often painful for updates and 3rd party support.
[13:10:23] <Jymmm> jdhnc: Hmmm, ok. interesting. If you get tired of the VB BS try autoit instead =)
[13:11:25] <jdhnc> nah, this is a 'real' app.
[13:11:42] <jdhnc> that looks cool for automated testing though
[13:12:09] <Jymmm> jdhnc: dont let the description fool you, it can be complied as well
[13:12:50] <Jymmm> jdhnc: It STARTED out as an admin tool, but is far more than that.
[13:13:50] <jdhnc> The units for steplen, stepspace, dirsetup, and dirhold have been changed from BASE_PERIOD units to nanosecond units. Internally, the values given are rounded up to a multiple of BASE_PERIOD,
[13:14:23] <jdhnc> is that no longer accurate?
[13:22:11] <pcw_home> Thats correct, it just that reset mode is special
[13:24:17] <pcw_home> and looks like it requires stepspace = 0
[13:25:21] <Connor> okay, I set base_thread to 40000, steplen to 1, stepspace to 0, reset anything from 600 to 1200 and still can't get anything stable above 12 to 16Mhz.
[13:25:28] <Connor> before it starts looking really strange.
[13:25:46] <jdhnc> strange how?
[13:25:54] <Connor> It's not stable.
[13:26:50] <pcw_home> well its not going to be stable, the _average_ frequency should be OK though
[13:27:10] <pcw_home> can you lower you base thread period?
[13:27:25] <Connor> I think I start getting errors around 20000
[13:27:48] <pcw_home> maybe try 25000 or so
[13:28:08] <Connor> and again, I never SEE freq between 16 to 25
[13:28:36] <Connor> I can see it walk up by 1khz or so up to about 12 to 16 (depending on settings), then it jumps up to 20 or 25
[13:29:40] <pcw_home> it should dither between 25 KHz and 12.5 KHz
[13:30:31] <pcw_home> that is a 40 usec period interspersed with 80 usec periods
[13:31:00] <pcw_home> (the best you can do with a 40 use thread)
[13:31:02] <pcw_home> usec
[13:31:50] <pcw_home> what does the analog output do above 1/2 scale?
[13:32:32] <pcw_home> if it averages the frequency it should be fine
[13:37:57] <Connor> Yea, I think I'm going to change this out for the C41
[13:38:00] <Connor> this is nutz.
[13:38:12] <Connor> what's pissing me off is Mach3 can do this no problem.
[13:38:44] <jdhnc> sounds similar to the mach vs. emc chargepump thing on diy-cnc
[13:39:09] <Connor> What's that about? Because I have a charge pump too.
[13:39:16] <Connor> I've yet to even hook it up.
[13:40:34] <jdhnc> http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/DIY-CNC/messages
[13:40:48] <jdhnc> the 'I gave up on linuxcnc' thread
[13:41:26] <pcw_home> Check the analog no PP device will be jitter free
[13:41:56] <Connor> I have.
[13:42:24] <Connor> at some point, it stops going up, then starts going back down.. and I can't get the full range..
[13:42:58] <jdhnc> can you turn the gain up to get full scale from 16khz?
[13:43:15] <Connor> you mean the pot ?
[13:43:23] <jdhnc> yeah, on the c6
[13:43:56] <Connor> I didn't think that was gain, I thought that was a limit. I adjust it to be 7v at the top end of that arc.. but, then, it only has about 1 to 1.5v worth of range.
[13:44:43] <jdhnc> might not be, but I would assume there are zero/span settings?
[13:45:02] <Connor> The only adjustment is that 1 pot.
[13:45:52] <jdhnc> you are going to use this on the stock g0704 speed control?
[13:45:59] <Connor> yup.
[13:46:21] <pcw_home> Sounds like something else is wrong, no excuse for it going back down again unless you are violating its timing somehow
[13:46:42] <Connor> I wish I had a freq generator.
[13:46:56] <Connor> might be able to put one together with a arduino.
[13:51:15] <jdhnc> on the bright side, I can hold off on speed control until you figure it out, or I can just turn the pot by hand.
[13:51:36] <Tom_L> http://www.mouser.com/tidk-lm3s-drv8312/?cm_mmc=Email-_-April2012-_-Industrial-Newsletter-_-TILearnMore
[13:51:59] <Tom_L> motor driver
[13:52:16] <jdhnc> Tom_L: that's weird, I just looked at that this morning.
[13:52:22] <Tom_L> hah
[13:52:37] <Tom_L> just checked my email
[13:52:39] <Connor> I think the 704 goes up to 90v
[13:54:10] <pcw_home> you could use the pwmgen to generate a 12.5 KHz square wave (at 40000 ns base thread)
[13:54:11] <pcw_home> and check analog for 1/2 way up
[13:54:23] <jdhnc> oh, that was in the mouser email this morning.
[13:54:30] <Tom_itx> yup
[14:14:54] <andypugh> I think I posted this not where I intended to post it: Interesting for Mac-owners (And possibly Windows dudes, but not Linux Geeks) http://labs.autodesk.com/technologies/fusion/overview/
[14:16:45] <archivist> etcha sketch
[14:16:54] <archivist> :)
[14:27:59] <Jymmm> cradek: You cat lovin freak, here ya go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTagDSnclk
[15:09:37] <joe9> G92 offset is easy to understand. Is there an inclination to use G92 over G5x (G53, G54..) codes? or, what would determine which is the better coordinate system to use?
[15:10:28] <joe9> alex4nder: looks like "touch off" is a big deal. Is it?
[15:11:42] <joe9> It would be easy to touch off to one side and do stuff. but, I want to do something to both sides (align both the sides). I am wondering if anyone can suggest any fixtures that can help with the alignment.
[15:12:13] <joe9> I am thinking of face milling a wood piece with 2 holes on corners and putting my workpiece aligned to those 2 holes.
[15:12:46] <alex4nder> joe9: it's how you sync up your mill's coordinate system with the thing you're milling
[15:12:49] <alex4nder> so it's a pretty big deal
[15:12:54] <joe9> but, then I would need 2 fixtures. one to drill the holes in the workpiece, and, another to hold it down while milling.
[15:12:56] <jdhnc> I have never used G92, only touchoff/g54 (and g55)
[15:13:26] <joe9> jdhnc: how did you learn it? about G54, etc.
[15:13:41] <joe9> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems is not helping me.
[15:13:50] <jdhnc> I tried to run the emc logo and it said "touch off"
[15:13:59] <alex4nder> joe9: it's straight forward
[15:14:08] <jdhnc> move X to your zero position, hit touch off, hit enter
[15:14:14] <jdhnc> move y to y zero, touch off,
[15:14:24] <alex4nder> and zero, he means relative to the g-code you're running
[15:14:26] <jdhnc> move z to either top or bottom of work, touch off the appropriate value
[15:14:28] <alex4nder> or whatever.
[15:14:42] <jdhnc> zero relative to the stock
[15:14:56] <alex4nder> well zero relative to the stock is completely dependent on the program
[15:15:10] <jdhnc> joe: touch off is trivially easy. G92 requires thought (IMO)
[15:15:45] <alex4nder> if my code depends on the centerline of the stock for zero, then I need to consider touchoff from that centerline.
[15:15:59] <joe9> jdhnc: but, in your case you are assuming that the workpiece zero == machine zero. isn't that normally not true?
[15:16:29] <jdhnc> joe9: that is incorrect.
[15:17:29] <jdhnc> in my case, I set g54 to work/code zero
[15:17:35] <jdhnc> via touch off
[15:19:44] <alex4nder> joe9: the simplest way to think about all this is: how does your machine know where you put the piece you're milling, on the table?
[15:20:04] <alex4nder> touch off is how you tell it that
[15:24:21] <joe9> jdhnc: when I touch off using the method described by you, X becomes 0 after "touchoff". But, Y and Z are not changing to 0. They remain at the value they were before.
[15:24:43] <joe9> I select Y and then press 'Touch off'
[15:25:05] <joe9> it pops up a dialog "Enter Y coordinate relative to the workpiece"
[15:25:32] <djdelorie> i.e. "what Y coordinate is the tool at now? "
[15:25:33] <joe9> value is 0.0, and the Coordinate system is "P2 G55"
[15:25:45] <joe9> djdelorie: G21, Y90.000
[15:26:12] <joe9> when I press "Ok" on the touch-off button, I see the blue line in the status bar
[15:26:35] <joe9> and it does not seem to change the value of Y though.
[15:26:37] <djdelorie> joe9: I mean, the dialog is asking you that, and *it* sets the Y90
[15:26:54] <djdelorie> "effectively" at least
[15:27:20] <joe9> my mistake.
[15:27:25] <djdelorie> touching off is a way to let the user decide, at milling time, where the part "is" relative to the milling operations
[15:27:35] <djdelorie> rather than hard code a machine offset in the g-code
[15:27:37] <joe9> i was under the impression that G54 = x, G55 = y and so on.
[15:27:45] <joe9> but, it was G2 G54 for all axes.
[15:28:55] <djdelorie> the way gcode is normally used in small machines, the *operator* decides what the part origin is, not the gcode
[15:28:56] <andypugh> G92 is typically used for a temporary offset. G54 and friends are persistent and would typically refer to vice jaws, various parts of a lathe chuck, etc.
[15:29:02] <joe9> so, when a machine is powered on, you manually do a "home" and then a "Touch off". Then, run your program, correct/
[15:29:24] <joe9> andypugh: oh, ok. thanks.
[15:29:38] <djdelorie> that's what I do. Power on, home, then manually move the tool to some "well known" location on the part, and tell the pc what coordinates that spot "is"
[15:30:03] <djdelorie> that creates a "part origin" that the gcode is relative to, so the gcode doesn't have to know where I put the part on the table
[15:30:23] <joe9> djdelorie: for milling dual sided pcb's, do you have any pics of fixtures that help with alignment?
[15:31:05] <djdelorie> nope. My theory on that is that you have to home and touch off, then let the machine mill holes for positioning pins while it's milling one side
[15:31:18] <djdelorie> so when you flip it, you insert the pins and mill everything else
[15:31:22] <andypugh> An example of G92 use is some G-code routines I have for making connector cut-outs, they are standalone routines which temporarily set the G92 origin to where the axes are when the routine is called. So I can G0 (or jog) to the centre of each connector in a panel then call the routine.
[15:31:42] <djdelorie> or do all your position pins, drills, and mills for one side without losing your part origin, then flip to just mill the other side
[15:32:12] <joe9> djdelorie: any suggestions on what would be good to use for "position pins"?
[15:32:27] <djdelorie> perhaps some broken pcb/dremel drill bits?
[15:32:40] <joe9> andypugh: ok, thanks.
[15:32:54] <djdelorie> antyhing that's stiff enough to hold the board in position while you clamp/bold/screw it down
[15:33:05] <djdelorie> it can even be temporary, like two 1/8" drill bits :-)
[15:33:52] <joe9> djdelorie: ok, thanks.
[15:39:22] <joe9> is there any way I can "touch off" programmatically? when I know that my part zero is at X=210, Y=90 and Z = -150. I could move there and use G92. But, how can I do that using the G54 coordinate system? any samples around, please?
[15:39:46] <cradek> read the G10 docs like I suggested earlier
[15:40:34] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G10-L2_
[15:40:40] <joe9> cradek: thanks.
[16:08:07] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:10:40] <cra_> Hello, anyone in here used a hall effect sensor chip directly as is? I want to know which way around to mount it...i.e which is the "sensing" side....or does it not matter, as long as the magnet passes somewhere near the top black plastic casing of the chip?
[16:14:14] <Tom_itx> the data sheet will tell you all that
[16:15:17] <cra_> ...your a better man than me.... http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CGUQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fallegromicro.com%2Fen%2FProducts%2F~%2Fmedia%2FFiles%2FDatasheets%2FA3141-2-3-4-Datasheet.ashx&ei=aCyPT8GxPMa-8APGtYWfCw&usg=AFQjCNEjMFtyT8ilhOOZyau4Ydu3ZDNqHA
[16:17:42] <cra_> I can`t see anything... I feel like the magnet should pass the flat front face....but mounting it would be easier head on, if the magnet passed the top head of it
[16:19:15] <andypugh> The one I have, the sensing face is the bevelled one
[16:19:58] <andypugh> Different model, though
[16:22:05] <ReadError> hey joe9
[16:22:07] <ReadError> you around
[16:26:36] <the-jub> morning
[16:26:46] <Tom_itx> evening
[16:50:58] <joe9> ReadError: what's up?
[16:55:45] <ReadError> joe9
[16:55:50] <ReadError> you close to cnn center?
[16:55:58] <joe9> near emory.
[16:56:06] <joe9> is where I am
[16:56:13] <ReadError> ah ok
[16:56:25] <ReadError> was gonna say i can order the bits if you close you can pick em up while im at work
[16:57:43] <r00t4rd3d> yay i received my power supply today :)
[16:58:18] <r00t4rd3d> its sucks buying a part at a time
[16:58:33] <joe9> ReadError: what are you planning on ordering?
[16:59:04] <joe9> and, I am thinking of buying 2 of EM2E8-0625-90VC
[16:59:22] <joe9> i can pick them wherever is convenient for you.
[16:59:41] <joe9> http://www.thinktink.com/products/Mechanical_Etching_Bits.asp from here, correct? ReadError
[17:01:28] <ReadError> ya either site
[17:01:34] <ReadError> need to get a few for routing, and drilling
[17:01:40] <ReadError> i work 7am-6pm
[17:01:44] <djdelorie> r00t4rd3d: it's like christmas every day? as long as the parts show up in the order you need them in ;-)
[17:01:50] <joe9> i need some routing and drilling bits too.
[17:02:39] <djdelorie> i need more weekends...
[17:03:37] <Tom_itx> i need more.
[17:03:41] <joe9> are "end mills" used for face milling? I want to flatten a piece of wood so that I can lay my work on top of it.
[17:04:08] <Tom_itx> joe9, fly cutter or shell mill
[17:04:18] <joe9> tom_itx, ok, thanks.
[17:05:32] <ReadError> joe9: got any vids of it runnin?
[17:06:09] <alex4nder> kick ass sea bass
[17:06:26] <alex4nder> the Taig really works well when you keep the chip size small but the IPM high
[17:06:30] <jdhnc> sea bass season still closed here.
[17:07:04] <alex4nder> if i keep my chip size around .020 I get really good results, and can use a lot more of the edge of the cutter
[17:07:21] <alex4nder> (this is on a 4 flute 3/16" HSS endmill cutting aluminum)
[17:07:45] <joe9> ReadError: no, i do not have any videos. btw, i used these clamps to secure the microswitches to the frame/taig: http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-ratchet-bar-clamp-spreader-46806.html
[17:08:06] <alex4nder> joe9: oh, I have an alternative to homing switches
[17:08:17] <ReadError> oh, i ordered 2 goodies today
[17:08:20] <joe9> alex4nder: which is?
[17:08:20] <alex4nder> I forgot to mention
[17:08:42] <alex4nder> with the taig, just cut your table size down by half an inch, and then home right where the stepper plates almost come in contact with the mill body
[17:08:50] <alex4nder> you can be off a quarter of an inch, and it doesn't matter.
[17:08:52] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SG7PPM/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details
[17:09:02] <alex4nder> then you set your home coords at those extremes
[17:09:20] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SG7PPC/ref=oh_o00_s00_i01_details
[17:10:16] <joe9> i don't foresee the need for an edge finder for my purposes.
[17:10:32] <alex4nder> ReadError: nice
[17:10:43] <joe9> is "ZrN coated" the best out there?
[17:10:44] <djdelorie> an edge finder lets you touch off the X and Y much more accurately than just eyeballing it
[17:11:17] <alex4nder> joe9: in engineering,there's never any 'best'
[17:11:23] <alex4nder> there's good enough, with degrees
[17:11:35] <joe9> http://www.thinktink.com/products/Mechanical_Etching_Bits.asp from here. the ZrN coated are higher priced.
[17:12:11] <alex4nder> I'd expect you to break a bunch of bits before you get your situation sorted
[17:12:13] <joe9> djdelorie: why not just a longer punch? i could not figure out how the edge finder worked. will need to check youtube.
[17:12:30] <djdelorie> it's non-obvious how it works, but it's visually very obvious
[17:12:34] <alex4nder> yup
[17:12:41] <alex4nder> smack springloaded cylinder into an edge
[17:13:09] <alex4nder> when it lines up with another cylinder, you're the radius of the smacking cylinder away from whatever you're running into
[17:13:21] <alex4nder> the other cylinder being what's chucked up in your spindle
[17:14:23] <ReadError> hope i can cram everything into an ATX case
[17:14:27] <ReadError> PSU and such
[17:14:44] <alex4nder> I hope you don't have noise problems
[17:14:58] <ReadError> hmmm
[17:15:10] <ReadError> i can get an external box
[17:15:15] * alex4nder shrugs.
[17:15:18] <alex4nder> it might be fine
[17:15:31] <ReadError> didnt realize it would be that sensitive
[17:16:01] <joe9> the G540 does get pretty hot.
[17:16:02] <alex4nder> I need to post up this video of machining aluminum
[17:16:03] <djdelorie> joe9: this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0od-cp_9dg
[17:16:27] <ReadError> alex4nder: for sure
[17:16:42] <ReadError> is it pretty simple to convert SVG -> DXF
[17:16:53] <ReadError> or some other format i can convert to a toolpath
[17:21:21] <joe9> djdelorie: do you have an edge finder?
[17:21:34] <djdelorie> ReadError: inkscape has a "save as" dxf option
[17:21:37] <djdelorie> joe9: no
[17:21:59] <djdelorie> joe9: then again, I don't have a conventional "mill" either
[17:23:10] <ReadError> djdelorie has that bigdog router
[17:23:13] <ReadError> giant thing
[17:23:31] <djdelorie> ReadError: that's my *small* router
[17:24:09] <djdelorie> the big one is mounted in my router table: http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/router/
[17:24:34] <andypugh> djdelorie: Have you considered using a webcam instead of touch-off?
[17:24:55] <djdelorie> the cnc one is a Porter Cable 960, it's about 1 HP. The table one is a bigger PC, it's about 2.5 HP and swings 3.5 inch bits
[17:25:26] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/review/R1E6R4GR45D2ME/ref=cm_cr_dp?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B002SG7PPM&nodeID=16310091&store=industrial ReadError, alex4nder: this review is scary.
[17:25:26] <djdelorie> andypugh: thought about it. Don't have one that can be rigidly mounted, and the pc that runs the mill at the moment doesn't have working usb. I need to dig a more recent one out of the pile
[17:26:09] <andypugh> Ah, yes, it does depend on the spindle design. I can fit one into a BT30 shank easily.
[17:26:39] <andypugh> In theory the camera can be on a different axis to the spindle, as long as the offset is known accurately.
[17:26:45] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.lowes.com/pd_254859-70-D26670_4294936478+4294926871__?productId=1072533&Ntt=router&Ns=p_product_price|0&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_DEWALT_4294936478%2B4294926871__s%3FNtt%3Drouter%26Ns%3Dp_product_price|0&facetInfo=DEWALT
[17:26:51] <r00t4rd3d> think that router would work well?
[17:27:23] <djdelorie> andypugh: the problem at the moment is finding a suitable camera :-)
[17:28:50] <djdelorie> r00t4rd3d: "well" depends on what you're using it for. I like the PC960 router because you can take the motor out and it's *round* so easy to mount.
[17:29:09] <djdelorie> the PC960 is about twice the HP of the one you linked to, though, and probably twice the size/weight.
[17:29:47] <r00t4rd3d> I need lighter
[17:30:01] <r00t4rd3d> the dewalt one might be pushing my limits
[17:30:02] <djdelorie> the PC7518 is rated at 3.25 HP but weighs even more than the 960
[17:30:48] <djdelorie> an air spindle is significantly lighter, but also less powerful
[17:31:00] <r00t4rd3d> makita makes a laminate router that looks small
[17:31:02] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#edge-finders/=h5x98t ReadError alex4nder
[17:31:11] <andypugh> I have one of these, which looks promising (note that that auction of for a job let of ten) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-MINI-Metal-12-0-Mega-USB-2-0-Digital-Video-Webcam-/150631987283
[17:31:41] <djdelorie> yeah, the 960 is 3x the weight of that dewalt...
[17:31:42] <andypugh> Seems easy to mount in a spindle once the clampy thing is off.
[17:37:51] <alex4nder> a probe that didn't suck
[17:38:00] <alex4nder> $50-$125
[17:38:02] <djdelorie> heh. Define "suck" now :-)
[17:38:03] <alex4nder> if it was high quality
[17:38:06] <alex4nder> any higher I'd make myself
[17:38:59] <andypugh> There is one, somewhere at that price. I wonder if I can find it?
[17:40:12] <andypugh> Ah, yes: http://www.wildhorse-innovations.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=80
[17:40:15] <andypugh> $119
[17:40:33] <alex4nder> yah, I was looking at one of those
[17:40:46] <alex4nder> but it's been out of stock for as long as I've been looking at it
[17:43:11] <alex4nder> it makes me want to buy/build a lathe.
[17:46:01] <andypugh> It is possible to exist without a lathe, but I wouldn't call it "living"
[17:46:12] <alex4nder> haha
[17:47:18] <djdelorie> I have three lathes... not once has one of them offered to get me a snack. Living! Ha!
[17:48:03] <andypugh> You need to ask the right way: http://xkcd.com/149/
[17:48:44] <ReadError> the taig lathes too small?
[17:48:49] <ReadError> im not doing anything super big
[17:49:13] <alex4nder> it's got max a 6" swing
[17:49:15] <alex4nder> I think
[17:49:18] <alex4nder> so if that's big enough
[17:51:40] <ReadError> the vids where they cut threads are awesome
[17:51:50] <ReadError> but i seen i get get an attachment and do that on my mill
[17:52:56] <djdelorie> ReadError: I have a chinese 7x12 lathe, and it's *not* better than my big one. The little one's gibs/dovetails suck, so the toolholder moves, makes it useless for precision work.
[17:53:18] <djdelorie> heh. eventually I'll be able to make new ones, I suppose...
[17:53:26] <ReadError> how much was the chinamade one?
[17:53:38] <joe9> http://www.sherline.com/tips.htm helpful
[17:54:09] <djdelorie> "make a donation to the club if you want, but I never want to see this piece of crap again"
[17:54:25] <djdelorie> that much :)
[17:55:06] <djdelorie> it's basically a very older version of this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-12-Mini-Metal-Lathe/G8688
[18:01:49] <joe9> the reviews say that "Brown & Sharpe" edge finders are the best.
[18:01:59] <joe9> not sure if that still stands. any experiences?
[18:02:07] <joe9> the price is approx the same.
[18:02:45] * djdelorie thought "brown & sharpe" was a taper size, not a company...
[18:02:55] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-20-Audible-Diameter/dp/B0006J3DOA/ref=sr_1_6?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1334787513&sr=1-6
[18:04:19] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-S828HZ-Wigglerand-Complete-Attachments/dp/B0006J4PIS/ref=sr_1_11?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1334787513&sr=1-11 seems tempting.
[18:04:53] <djdelorie> do you need "best" or just "good enough" ?
[18:05:20] <joe9> good enough.
[18:05:22] <pfred1> OMG did I patch this right?
[18:07:37] <pfred1> who says C++ is hard?
[18:07:57] <djdelorie> well-written C++ is easy. ANY poorly-written code is hard.
[18:08:17] <pfred1> OK then i make hard C++ because i don't know the first thing about it
[18:08:24] <joe9> do the "audible" edge finders help? any experiences using one vs a non-audible one?
[18:08:44] <joe9> http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-5-Finder-Diameter/dp/B0006J3D7M/ref=sr_1_9?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1334787513&sr=1-9 vs http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-20-Audible-Diameter/dp/B0006J3DOA/ref=sr_1_6?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1334787513&sr=1-6
[18:08:55] <joe9> i am debating between the above.
[18:09:03] <pfred1> is Brown and Sharp still in business?
[18:09:09] <joe9> the audible one does not have a center finder.
[18:09:36] <joe9> not sure if the "audible" feature helps or not.
[18:09:41] <pfred1> I thought their whole union falling out went rather poorly for them
[18:11:58] <djdelorie> joe9: are you sure you want a cone on the end, and not http://www.amazon.com/Brown-Sharpe-599-792-21-Audible-Diameter/dp/B0006J3DOU/ref=pd_sbs_indust_8 ?
[18:13:06] * pfred1 beats joe9 with a piece of heavy walled pipe for thinking about buying Brown and Sharp ...
[18:13:42] <djdelorie> joe9: START MAKING STUFF!
[18:13:50] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U61ub6mtpH4
[18:15:45] <alex4nder> pfred1: B&S markets perfectly fine stuff made by other people. ;)
[18:16:12] <pfred1> alex4nder yeah I thought they got bought out by an English holding company
[18:16:36] <alex4nder> pfred1: I own testa-made calipers and DTIs from thm
[18:16:58] <alex4nder> er tesa
[18:17:17] <pfred1> I was in a union machine shop while that was all going on
[18:18:03] <alex4nder> joe9 / ReadError: http://www.andern.org/alexander/images/taig/taig_milling_aluminum.m4v
[18:18:13] <alex4nder> apologies in advance for the shakeycam action
[18:19:23] <joe9> pfred1: is it a bad idea to buy B&S? why do you say that?
[18:20:31] <djdelorie> alex4nder: how much horsepower and RPM in that cut?
[18:21:20] <pfred1> joe9 it doesn't matter today they're long gone
[18:21:20] <alex4nder> djdelorie: it's a "1/4 HP" motor.. running at ~3k
[18:21:35] <andypugh> djdelorie: I think my 9x20 is an Indian knock-off of a cheap Chinese lathe.
[18:21:55] <pfred1> andypugh nothing but the best!
[18:21:57] <djdelorie> hmmm... I could slow my router down to 3k, and it'd be about 1/4 hp too by that point.
[18:22:04] <joe9> pfred1: which edge finder do you recommend? do you recommend an audible vs edge/center finder?
[18:22:16] <djdelorie> chipload and cutter? I might try milling aluminum next :-)
[18:22:26] <djdelorie> joe9: why do you need an edge finder?
[18:22:36] <pfred1> joe9 I have a wobbler but I don't use it much
[18:22:38] <andypugh> pfred1: http://www.brownandsharpe.com/
[18:22:50] <pfred1> andypugh nice english company now
[18:22:58] <alex4nder> djdelorie: 4 flute 3/16" endmill.. the chip size is ~0.02"
[18:23:22] <alex4nder> and the DoC is .2"
[18:23:56] <joe9> djdelorie: it seems to be very helpful to align my workpiece if I change the position of the clamps.
[18:24:09] <djdelorie> do you *need* more precision than just eyeballing it?
[18:24:15] <alex4nder> joe9: you're like a parent with their first child
[18:24:16] <pfred1> you need a dial indicator for that
[18:24:24] <alex4nder> it's all organic baby wipes and microgreens
[18:24:32] <alex4nder> just turn on the spindle and start milling wood
[18:25:04] <djdelorie> agreed. Cut stuff, only buy more crap if you can't make it work with the crap you already have. Enjoy the baby for a while.
[18:25:08] <pfred1> joe9 I do use my dial indicator a lot
[18:26:15] <joe9> alex4nder: it looks like that. that is a very good analogy.
[18:26:26] <pfred1> I have a Horrible Fright $6.99 special it works great
[18:26:48] <alex4nder> joe9: you will break something, and you just have to shrug it off
[18:26:56] <alex4nder> you will mess up your fixturing, and ruin stock
[18:27:05] <alex4nder> you will snap endmills
[18:27:21] <alex4nder> you will start your program, and be so excited to see it move, that you forget to turn on your spindle
[18:27:23] <djdelorie> when I got my first lathe, I got a $32 set-of-eight cheap chinese steel tools to learn on. AFTER figuring it all out, THEN I started buying the $100 tools.
[18:27:55] <pfred1> djdelorie you should have ground old files
[18:27:57] <joe9> pfred1: i have such a dial indicator too.
[18:28:05] <djdelorie> NEVER use old files for wood turning
[18:28:07] <pfred1> joe9 yeah they're fine
[18:28:20] <pfred1> djdelorie why not?
[18:28:24] <djdelorie> too brittle
[18:32:09] <alex4nder> djdelorie: you can tell at the beginning of the video that the chipload is much larger, and you get the disconcerting crunching noises
[18:32:22] <alex4nder> it's all about shaving the material
[18:32:46] <djdelorie> yup. "first cut" is always a little scary though
[18:33:06] <alex4nder> the spiral drop has a 1.5 cutter diameter
[18:33:18] <alex4nder> the rest is an explicit .02 step
[18:34:04] <djdelorie> 0.02 step in Z per pass? or XY step? Or shaving per flute?
[18:34:30] <alex4nder> X-Y... the Z is done with the first 1.5x diameter spiral into the material
[18:34:50] <alex4nder> the rest is .2 depth
[18:35:10] <djdelorie> so each shaving is 0.02 wide, whatever tall, and how thin?
[18:35:21] * djdelorie thinks there's a horsepower-to-shavings ratio in there somewhere
[18:36:09] <pfred1> alex4nder your video makes me want to get a rotary table
[18:47:13] <alex4nder> djdelorie: yah, the chips are ~.02 wide, .2 tall, and really thin
[18:47:20] <alex4nder> obviously dependent on feeds/speeds
[18:47:22] <djdelorie> XY feed rate?
[18:47:51] <alex4nder> 30 IPM
[18:48:37] <djdelorie> 2.5 thou per cut?
[18:49:30] <djdelorie> 3000/60 = 50 rotations/sec * 4 = 200 cuts/sec; 30 IPM = 0.5 IPS; 0.5 inch/sec / 200 cuts/sec = 0.0025 inch/cut
[18:49:51] <djdelorie> actually, thinner since it's not the whole cutter diameter
[18:50:01] <pfred1> I always use 2 flute endmills for aluminum
[18:50:51] <alex4nder> djdelorie: yup
[18:51:09] <alex4nder> I grabbed a couple chips and measured between 2 and 4.5
[18:51:23] <alex4nder> but I did several projects in the same tub
[18:51:35] <alex4nder> with some feed override
[18:51:59] <alex4nder> pfred1: yah, this is some cheap shit chinese 4 flute HSS, and some no-spec aluminum I bought at Ace
[18:52:18] <djdelorie> I have max feed override at 2.0x as I have no idea what "works" in wood yet
[18:52:24] <pfred1> aluminum is like cutting foam
[18:52:37] <pfred1> I've machined tougher hard woods
[18:52:48] <alex4nder> yah, sort of.. although I broke an endmill in this aluminum the other day, while pushing the edge
[18:52:54] <djdelorie> gaboon ebony. it's like turning hard plastic instead of wood
[18:53:17] <alex4nder> endmills don't like gummy aluminum welding itself in 2 of the 4 flutes. :/
[18:53:23] <alex4nder> with no feedrate reduction
[18:53:58] <pfred1> yeah aluminum seems to like to have the room of 2 flute endmills
[18:54:15] <alex4nder> yah, I did some 7075 with a long 2 flute, and it worked well
[18:54:55] <pfred1> even though you can machine it dry there are cutting lubes for it too
[18:55:09] <alex4nder> I spray my endmills whenever I do it now, for that reason
[18:55:30] <pfred1> yeah doesn't take much
[18:55:50] <pfred1> if nothing else you get a much better surface finish
[18:56:47] <pfred1> but likely your 4 flute is clogging on you a little
[18:58:28] <andypugh> I remember my first cuts on a lathe :-) I was 7, and had to stand on a tool box to reach the handles. I even remember the machine we were making, a cement mixer based on a beer keg.
[19:00:12] <pfred1> lathe work is so simple it is complicated
[19:01:09] <A0Sheds> andypugh: do you have a photo blog up somewhere of your last adventure?
[19:01:44] <andypugh> No. I didn't want to get the camera wet. And, to be honest, it was "just for me" if that makes sense?
[19:01:56] <A0Sheds> sure, just interested
[19:04:18] <andypugh> There is a whole bunch of blog posts from all the crews, including a few from me: http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/follow/crew-diaries/
[19:04:35] <A0Sheds> thanks
[19:04:59] <pfred1> I'd sail around the world if the oceans were single malt whiskey
[19:05:06] <A0Sheds> anyone seen danimal lately?
[19:05:40] * pfred1 never develped much of a taste for salty water though ...
[19:09:41] <andypugh> And the first one there is from my particular friend Nina, who also posted: http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/follow/crew-diaries?item=1181
[19:20:10] <joe9> where do you buy your bits? I am looking to buy a fly cutter for collet (1/4,3/8,3/16,1/16,1/8 or 5/16) but, I cannot find them at mcmastercarr
[19:20:29] <joe9> curious if there is a better place to buy these kind of bits.
[19:20:40] <joe9> most seem to carry end mills but not fly cutters.
[19:21:17] <djdelorie> if you're limited to small shank sizes, you might be limited to using end mills for facing
[19:21:55] <Tom_itx> what taper is your spindle head?
[19:24:31] <joe9> tom_itx: it is taig. i am not sure what taper it takes.
[19:24:40] <Tom_itx> find out
[19:24:45] <Tom_itx> it may help you to know
[19:24:59] <joe9> djdelorie: ok, thanks. any recommendations for some end mills that are good to have around?
[19:25:11] <joe9> for face milling or just basic stuff with the mill.
[19:25:15] <djdelorie> sorry, I have no metal mills
[19:25:19] <joe9> Tom_itx: ok, will do. thanks.
[19:25:25] <joe9> djdelorie: for wood.
[19:25:38] <pfred1> joe9 I bought the HF boxed set and just replace them with better as I break them
[19:25:45] <djdelorie> my generic advice is "buy a cheap set of a couple bits, once you know what you want, but better ones in the sizes you need"
[19:26:05] <pfred1> joe9 that way you end up with a nice wooden box :)
[19:26:13] <djdelorie> for woodwork, I'm using a 1/4" spiral upcut bit, but it leaves the top edge of each cut kinda messy.
[19:26:47] <djdelorie> yeah, "cheap boxed set" is what you want. Replace them as you break them. CUT STUFF ALREADY! ;-)
[19:26:48] <Tom_itx> http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Milling/Milling-Cutters/Fly-Cutters-Sets/Fly-Cutter-Sets/_/N-77h8y?cm_re=Category-_-BodyLink-_-Fly+Cutter+Sets
[19:27:11] <Tom_itx> http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Milling/Milling-Cutters/Fly-Cutters-Sets/Fly-Cutters/_/N-77h91?cm_re=Category-_-BodyLink-_-Fly+Cutters
[19:27:50] <joe9> pfred1: i checked out the HF ones and saw this: http://www.harborfreight.com/20-piece-titanium-nitrade-coated-end-mill-set-5947.html
[19:27:59] <joe9> pfred1: is that what you have?
[19:28:03] <pfred1> joe9 that is what i have
[19:28:07] <pfred1> the gold ones
[19:28:24] <pfred1> has 2 and 4 flutes
[19:28:30] <Tom_itx> http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Indexable-Milling-Face-Shoulder-Shell/_/N-77cym?cm_re=Category-_-BodyLink-_-Indexable+Milling+Face+%26+Shoulder+%26+Shell&Ntk=All_MSC&Ntt=insert+shell+mill&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&rawInput=insert+shell+mill%C2%A2insert+shell+mill
[19:28:36] <joe9> when I checked it out, I felt that there were many that were more than my collet size. felt that it would be a waste to buy them, if I cannot use them.
[19:28:54] <joe9> pfred1: but, that was what I thought when I checked it out in the store.
[19:29:09] <pfred1> I have a collet holder that holds them all
[19:29:19] <joe9> oh, ok.
[19:29:28] <djdelorie> pfred1: you might have a bigger mill than he does
[19:29:33] <Tom_itx> you need to find out more about your holder
[19:29:40] <pfred1> djdelorie the taigs look pretty big to me
[19:29:55] <pfred1> my RF-32 isn't much bigger
[19:30:32] <pfred1> theoretically my machine has a max capacity of 3/4 of an inch but I tun a 2" shell mill on it
[19:30:43] <pfred1> it works
[19:31:24] <Tom_itx> http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT2?PMAKA=85370799&PMPXNO=19301878&cm_re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults
[19:31:25] <djdelorie> hmmm... in theory, my router holds a 1/2" shaft tool too... forgot about that. Not that I want my plywood machine turning a 2" fly cutter!
[19:31:47] <pfred1> djdelorie why not?
[19:31:49] <Tom_itx> that's probably half the price of your mill
[19:32:21] <djdelorie> not rigid enough for slow speed cutting, and tip speed too high for the router's regular speed anyway
[19:32:25] <joe9> Tom_itx: yes, those face mills are pretty expensive.
[19:32:35] <pfred1> I have a 3" carbide flycutter too
[19:32:47] <Tom_itx> you can make one ya know
[19:33:03] <djdelorie> for cutting metal or wood? The dynamics are different for wood, there's a minimum speed for a smooth cut, and that limits the bit diameter for a given router
[19:33:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.sherline.com/3052inst.htm
[19:33:27] <djdelorie> I think 1.5" is the most my 960 router is supposed to take
[19:33:30] <pfred1> yeah I can't mill wood on my mill too good it comes out all furry
[19:33:57] <djdelorie> yup. Hence the smaller bits and higher RPM I use.
[19:34:03] <pfred1> once I put a router off it and that worked OK but I never worked out a good way to adjust it in the Z axis
[19:34:04] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, those plan9 guys need help getting g++ to work on plan9
[19:34:07] <Tom_itx> http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/flycutter/flycutter-e.htm
[19:34:07] <Thetawaves> but they'll never admit it
[19:34:41] <pfred1> Thetawaves I need help getting KDE on my machine but I'm muddling along
[19:34:49] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: people work on what they want to work on, if you need help and there aren't volunteers, you need to pay, which means you need funding, etc...
[19:34:49] <Thetawaves> infact listen to this
[19:34:52] <Thetawaves> [16:24] <cinap_lenrek> we wont have qt in 9front
[19:34:52] <Thetawaves> [16:24] <cinap_lenrek> stop it
[19:34:52] <Thetawaves> [16:24] <cinap_lenrek> OUT!
[19:35:04] <Tom_itx> joe9, ^^ last link are home made ones
[19:35:22] <djdelorie> OSS tends to be very "religious" about coding sometimes, it turns off volunteers.
[19:35:35] <joe9> Tom_itx: thanks.
[19:35:56] <pfred1> QT's license is pretty premissive anymore
[19:36:08] * Tom_itx goes back to pic n place
[19:36:13] <pfred1> permissive even
[19:36:56] <pfred1> I'm building KDE right now and it is a mess
[19:38:35] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, this shit is hilarious http://9hal.ath.cx/usr/cinap_lenrek/wtfnix.txt
[19:41:18] <andypugh> That was something of a goof, it has to be said. I have never done anything like that, of course.
[19:44:14] <Thetawaves> the perils of email clients and the dreaded 'reply' button
[19:45:03] <djdelorie> what happens on the internet, stays on the internet...
[19:46:42] <pfred1> man this is a gnarly build
[19:46:51] <andypugh> If only that were true, djdelorie
[19:48:07] <pfred1> andypugh you read it on the Internet so it must be true!
[19:50:03] <andypugh> Actually, thinking about it, many of my best friends (and the girls I have, err "known") have been met through the internet. So perhaps I am glad that is not true. In fact an old girlfriend from the early 90's just popped up again. (I met her from a motorbike mailing list. She got an engine rebuild out of it, I am not sure what I got out of the deal)
[19:53:10] <pfred1> come on baby build build build!
[19:53:53] <pfred1> this is what i love about OSS if you're hard headed enoug hjust about anything is possible
[20:03:50] <r00t4rd3d> UPS Ground service is the worst thing ever.
[20:03:58] <r00t4rd3d> USPS*
[20:04:03] <r00t4rd3d> err no wait
[20:04:10] <r00t4rd3d> USP
[20:04:12] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[20:07:57] <andypugh> Lose an Elephant, break an Anvil?
[20:09:31] <andypugh> pfred1: Aye, when people ask on the forum "Is this possible" I am never sure how hard it has to be before the answer is "No, not really"
[20:09:55] <pfred1> everything is possible most things are just highly unlikely
[20:11:00] <andypugh> Like, "Can you run LinuxCNC on a Mac, Natively?" The answer is "Yes, but you would have to write a Compatible RTAI for Darwin, and probably create a compatibility library for the Linux kernel macro's" SO, it is still a "Yes", but about a years work for several programmers.
[20:12:32] <Valen> andypugh: i think the words your looking for are "patches welcome" ;->
[20:12:41] <pfred1> oh yeah I think i did it this time!
[20:13:02] <pfred1> smoking
[20:13:26] <pfred1> KDE 3.5.10 say hello to Squeeze
[20:17:01] <pfred1> bbiab if this works
[20:20:18] <ReadError> hey yall
[20:21:21] <andypugh> A friend of mine has www.teaparty.net He seems rather annoyed about the US "Tea Party". Being a fairly left-wing brit.
[20:22:00] <Valen> he should have got .net.uk then ;-P
[20:22:08] <jdhnc> teaparty is better than lemonparty
[20:22:23] <ReadError> i would sell the domain ;)
[20:22:36] <andypugh> Valen: The US owns the Internet?
[20:22:44] <jdhnc> yes.
[20:22:52] <andypugh> jdhnc: You can't catch me that way!
[20:22:58] <jdhnc> worth a shot
[20:23:33] <Valen> andypugh: they deem to be the default owner of .com.net etc, that being where DNS kicked off
[20:24:17] <andypugh> 'Appen, but a Brit invented the Web, and the compuiter.
[20:24:52] <jdhnc> the web just runs on top of the internet pipes
[20:24:57] <jdhnc> real men use gopher.
[20:24:58] <Valen> well a pom invented the net, then everybody forgot about it until the americans did it again ;-P
[20:25:07] <Valen> real men use netcat!
[20:25:19] <andypugh> I read the phrase "goatesdance" in a book, but it seems not to exist. To be honest the combination of Goatse.cx and Hamstedance sounds hilarous.
[20:25:23] <jdhnc> heh, I used nc repeatedly today.
[20:25:53] <Valen> andypugh: you bastard!
[20:26:03] * Valen goes for a mental enema
[20:26:21] <ReadError> i browse the interwebs using telnet and GET request
[20:26:31] <Valen> ooo telnet well laaa de da
[20:26:35] <jdhnc> nc is much better than telnet for that.
[20:26:40] <Valen> nc way more hardcore than telnet
[20:26:54] <ReadError> yes agreed
[20:27:06] <ReadError> i <3 curl though
[20:27:12] <ReadError> great for diagnosing issues :)
[20:27:26] <jdhnc> I've sold tons of dive gear in the lsat two weeks to buy a cncfusion G0704 kit and they still don't have one.
[20:28:43] * pfred1 would just like to use the phrase, needs a little more work ...
[20:28:43] <Valen> sucky
[20:29:08] <ReadError> my mill comes tomrrow :))))))
[20:29:17] <jdhnc> Read: what mill?
[20:29:19] <Valen> we just decided to make a new mill
[20:29:32] <andypugh> jdhnc: When you get the machine, you can re-create all the dive gear. What could possibly go wrong?
[20:29:37] <Thetawaves> Valen, epoxy granite?
[20:29:42] <Valen> all the way ;->
[20:29:47] <Valen> well phenolic basalt
[20:29:59] <Thetawaves> huh?
[20:30:00] <Thetawaves> link
[20:30:09] <jdhnc> andypugh: that is part of my goal
[20:30:21] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html
[20:30:39] <jdhnc> though making steel cylinders with just a mill and lathe is probably unlikely.
[20:30:42] <andypugh> Phenolic Gneiss. Pretty colour.
[20:31:31] <andypugh> jdhnc: Metal Spinning is a useful thing to learn. You see a lot more objects that you know how to make once you have tried it.
[20:31:38] <ReadError> jdhnc: taig 2019cr
[20:32:17] <Valen> andypugh: i think our lathe needs more power to do that
[20:32:27] <Valen> spinning that is
[20:32:30] <jdhnc> andypugh: there are (were anyway) some spun cylinders, they were heavier on the end and had unfavorable buoyancy characteristics
[20:32:31] <Valen> but I'd like to try it
[20:32:51] <andypugh> Yes, it does take "oomph"
[20:33:04] <Thetawaves> Valen, man i really like that link
[20:33:12] <Valen> andypugh: Phenolic Gneiss?
[20:33:22] <Valen> i think next time we might add some black pigment
[20:33:28] <Valen> it really looks nasty lol
[20:33:33] <andypugh> Valen: Pretty pink granite
[20:33:43] <Valen> ahh
[20:33:49] <Thetawaves> i have a minilathe headstock.. thinking about casting it directly into a form for a lathe base
[20:34:05] <Valen> I wouldn't
[20:34:11] <Valen> it all shrinks as it cures
[20:34:27] <Valen> put some mounts and bolt it up
[20:34:30] <andypugh> No, nor would I. I would buy a proper lathe, made by a proper company out of proper materials in a proper country.
[20:34:44] <Valen> andypugh: since when did you become a millionare
[20:34:45] <jdhnc> I a minilathe headstock might make an interesting rotary axis with a big servo
[20:34:48] <pfred1> andypugh bah piffle
[20:34:55] <Valen> I'd also make the lathe vertical
[20:35:13] <Valen> take up less floor space then and putting stuff in the chuck is easier
[20:35:48] <andypugh> You can buy a proper 1950s lathe for peanuts. But it will be made properly. Not like my Chinese heap of junk.
[20:36:00] <Valen> you cant here
[20:36:06] <Valen> they just don't exist
[20:36:15] <Thetawaves> i could have bought a atlas 6" for 3k here
[20:36:19] <Thetawaves> a couple years ago
[20:36:28] <andypugh> By all means replace the headstock, but the carriage and bed are critical.
[20:36:33] <pfred1> those are some gourmet peanuts
[20:36:48] <Valen> use high grade linear rails
[20:36:55] <Thetawaves> i would rather have a cast machine tool base with a set of beefy linear rails
[20:37:15] <pfred1> andypugh you never saw the lathe I made out of scrap steel
[20:37:17] <Valen> we are using 4x 1500kg rails with 8 trucks on our new mill
[20:37:32] <Valen> that on the y axis alone
[20:37:36] <Thetawaves> how much did that set of rails cost you?
[20:37:47] <Valen> i think it was $1500-2000
[20:37:52] <Thetawaves> not bad
[20:37:56] <Valen> for an A3 sized working area mill
[20:38:16] <Valen> you can do it for ~$500 with chinese rail
[20:40:57] <jdhnc> Thetawaves: http://wilmington.craigslist.org/tls/2942374592.html
[20:41:03] <jdhnc> that atlas?
[20:41:59] <ReadError> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY86B2t_Y9g&feature=related
[20:42:00] <ReadError> mmmm
[20:42:03] <joe9> ReadError: what about the bits? when are you placing the order?
[20:42:21] <ReadError> joe9: im good when ever
[20:42:26] <ReadError> just need to figure out which
[20:42:34] <ReadError> you selected a routing/drill bit yet?
[20:42:44] <ReadError> i saw the one you posted
[20:42:45] <joe9> i have the drill bits already.
[20:42:54] <ReadError> ahh ok
[20:42:58] <joe9> just need some end mills, will get them from mcmaster.
[20:43:17] <Thetawaves> jdhnc, yeah
[20:43:28] <joe9> only need these EM2E8-0945-30VC 30° "V" point, ZrN coated PreciseBIT Scoring / Engraving bit 1.5 in. (38mm) OAL 2 flute, 1/8" shank, solid submicrograin carbide bit
[20:43:29] <Thetawaves> i live in alaska and i can't get a fucking thing
[20:43:33] <joe9> i need 2 of them.
[20:43:36] <Thetawaves> cheap chinese shit that can be freighted for 300$
[20:43:51] <Valen> Thetawaves: what are you after?
[20:43:53] <pfred1> Thetawaves you can get ice cubes
[20:44:00] <jdhnc> king crab
[20:44:06] <Thetawaves> just a small lathe
[20:44:12] <pfred1> yeah alaskan crabs
[20:44:14] <Valen> my dad got an assload of carbide tools in small sizes from china
[20:44:17] <Thetawaves> to go along with my small mill
[20:44:31] <andypugh> <checks ebay.com.au> You do appear to be correct, it seems Aussies love their lathes. AU$3500 for a Colchester Student?. Though http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hercus-metal-lathe-9-inch-used-In-going-condition-machinery-hobby-lathe-/200691641290? might be OK, no gearbox to feel guilty about throwing away (V-belt and VFD conversion) and it ought to be good and solid: http://www.lathes.co.uk/hercus/index.html I expect it is 15,
[20:44:31] <andypugh> miles from you though.
[20:44:33] <Valen> we got like 200 ~2mm carbides for $180 i think it was
[20:45:12] <Thetawaves> nope, i'm probably going to continue wasting massive amounts of money trying to build something from epoxy granite
[20:45:17] <Thetawaves> :P
[20:45:24] <Valen> Thetawaves: thats why we used the PB
[20:45:31] <Valen> its much cheaper ;->
[20:45:33] <ReadError> joe9: w/ or w/o ring?
[20:45:38] <Thetawaves> isn't it really toxic too?
[20:45:46] <Thetawaves> phenolic resin is nasty stuff
[20:45:54] <Valen> eh i wouldn't swim in it but not really
[20:45:55] <pfred1> oh come on
[20:45:58] <joe9> ReadError: with ring, please.
[20:46:12] <Valen> actually i think we wound up using a vynil ester casting resin for that
[20:46:24] <pfred1> I'd think with the oil industry in Alaska there has to be some equipment
[20:46:25] <ReadError> hmmm whats the ring?
[20:46:49] <jdhnc> anyone ever used one of the cheap chinese HF/etc vertical/horizontal band saws? Anything you can do to them to make them less sucky?
[20:47:01] <jdhnc> the ring gives you depth index
[20:47:08] <pfred1> jdhnc I have a HF 4x6
[20:47:21] <jdhnc> pfred: I think that's what I bought. How is it?
[20:48:14] <pfred1> jdhnc I think it is OK http://i.imgur.com/YvLQO.jpg
[20:48:23] <andypugh> Valen: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/colchester-student-/120896703043 You want me to bid and post?
[20:48:46] <pfred1> jdhnc http://i.imgur.com/QsCXj.jpg
[20:48:47] <Valen> yeah vinyl ester resin we used
[20:48:56] <Valen> rofl andypugh
[20:49:02] <pfred1> jdhnc can't ask for much more than that out of it
[20:49:03] <jdhnc> pfred1: different color http://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html
[20:49:06] <Valen> resell here split the difference 50/50 you think ;->
[20:49:30] <andypugh> Actually, the Student is a _really_ nice lathe
[20:49:44] <jdhnc> how do you use it vertically? there is no table?
[20:49:45] <pfred1> jdhnc looks nicer than mine does
[20:50:10] <joe9> ReadError: with the depth ring, I meant.
[20:50:11] <andypugh> I hate using the one the Motor Club has in London, as it reminds me what an execrable pile of scrap I spent £1000 converting to CNC
[20:50:28] <pfred1> they give you this piece of sheetmetal I just cut on the blade guard? whatever you want to call the plates on it all the time
[20:50:36] <ReadError> joe9: what size drill bits you get?
[20:50:42] <ReadError> im going to get some myself
[20:51:03] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2841A81 readerror
[20:51:07] <joe9> for drill bits
[20:51:28] <pfred1> jdhnc the HF 4x6 is legendary
[20:51:34] <jdhnc> pfred: I had a $179 coupon
[20:51:39] <andypugh> In a good way
[20:51:41] <andypugh> ?
[20:52:05] <Valen> Thetawaves: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45-3.html#post927764
[20:52:10] <Valen> the resin we used
[20:52:17] <pfred1> jdhnc just don't go too far off if you're doing a cut because i hear most of them don't have motor thermals in them
[20:52:19] <andypugh> At $239 that bandsaw has to be hopeless, surely? A half-decent motor costs that much.
[20:52:36] <jdhnc> andypugh: $179
[20:52:41] <pfred1> andypugh I cut 90# RR track in half with mine
[20:52:48] <Valen> andypugh: we have a rather similar looking one
[20:52:54] <Valen> the stand is shitty
[20:53:07] <Valen> and there are a few other bits that need fixing up
[20:53:13] <jdhnc> evidently the green one has teh bad stand
[20:53:16] <Valen> but it pushes the blade around
[20:53:21] <andypugh> Yes, but then you can cut RR track with a hacksaw. How patient did you have to be?
[20:53:22] <joe9> 8977A183 check this product id on mcmaster.com for end mills: ReadError
[20:53:22] <Valen> ours was blue/green
[20:53:33] <pfred1> I put a crossbrace on my stand and I made a dolly it sits on
[20:53:52] <Valen> ours now has coolant flood ;->
[20:53:52] <jdhnc> maybe I'll take it out of the box this w/e.
[20:54:11] <jdhnc> my boat is out being bottom painted so my garage is full of boat crap
[20:54:12] <pfred1> andypugh it wasn't bad maybe it took 20 minutes i didn't time it
[20:54:52] <Valen> point of bandsaw is you let it cut till you hear the clunk, if your not in a 24/7 metalworking shop you can find something else to do in that time ;-P
[20:54:58] <andypugh> I have cut 4" bar with a hacksaw, and started on a 6" bar before I decided that £5 for the local blacksmith might be money well spent.
[20:55:19] <Valen> andypugh: your a winch grinder on the boats arent you ;-P
[20:55:33] <pfred1> Valen at the machine shop I worked at they had an amazing bandsaw
[20:55:35] <joe9> ReadError: hold on.
[20:55:41] <andypugh> Sometimes, mainly I am Bow 2
[20:55:42] <joe9> ReadError: i put the wrong product id.
[20:55:54] <pfred1> Valen it was a german war release piece of equipment it couls saw steel like it was pine
[20:56:10] <andypugh> (Feeding 300kg sails out of the bag to Bow 1)
[20:56:29] <pfred1> had hydraulic vise with auto feed
[20:56:37] <joe9> ReadError: this is what I want: EM2E8-0625-90VC 90° "V" point, ZrN coated PreciseBIT 2-flute Scoring / Engraving bit, 0.005in tip web,1.42 in. (36mm) OAL
[20:56:38] <pfred1> thing was right on the money every cut
[20:56:42] <joe9> ReadError: with the depth ring.
[20:57:01] <Thetawaves> Valen, your link doesn't work
[20:57:23] <Valen> why not?
[20:57:27] <Valen> worked for me
[20:57:46] <Thetawaves> http://www.fgi.com.au/files/images/stories/pdfs/literature/Vinylesters.pdf
[20:57:49] <Thetawaves> broken
[20:58:04] <Valen> ahh
[20:58:15] <Valen> brb phone
[20:58:56] <ReadError> joe9: ordered
[20:59:06] <joe9> ReadError: the 90 degree ones correct?
[20:59:21] <ReadError> 5 EM2E8-0625-90VC 90° V point ZrN coated PreciseBIT 2-flute Scoring / Engraving bit 0.005in tip web1.42 in. (36mm) OAL Ring: Ring $12.61 $63.05
[20:59:21] <ReadError> Shipping: $12.37
[20:59:32] <joe9> ReadError: ok, cool.
[20:59:35] <joe9> thanks.
[20:59:40] <ReadError> np
[20:59:46] <joe9> did you get 2?
[20:59:49] <ReadError> 3
[20:59:53] <ReadError> you wanted 2 right?
[20:59:55] <joe9> yes.
[21:00:09] <ReadError> yea shipping was flat rate so i added an extra
[21:00:14] <ReadError> ill probably break the 1st 2 lol
[21:00:18] <joe9> smart.
[21:00:27] <andypugh> <checks demon50s.com> Valen: You know you make their only in-stock product?
[21:00:51] <joe9> ReadError: how many days? 3 days?
[21:00:57] <ReadError> joe9: you know where the centennial building is?
[21:01:01] <joe9> ReadError: did you ship it to your workplace?
[21:01:10] <ReadError> nah it should be here monday
[21:01:15] <ReadError> or tuesday
[21:01:27] <ReadError> since it will go out tomorrow and be in transit over the weekend
[21:01:41] <ReadError> they said they ship next business day
[21:01:42] <joe9> makes sense.
[21:01:50] <joe9> did you ship it to your workplace?
[21:02:08] <ReadError> nah
[21:02:13] <ReadError> worried about it getting lost in the shuffle
[21:02:38] <ReadError> so hopefully ill have them at work by tuesday
[21:03:24] <ReadError> most of our packages go to IT i think
[21:03:26] <ReadError> ram and such
[21:03:32] <joe9> ReadError: i ping'ed you in another channel. do you see that?
[21:03:49] <ReadError> which?
[21:03:51] <joe9> private channel
[21:04:13] <ReadError> hmm no pm's here
[21:04:32] <joe9> oh, ok.
[21:04:42] <joe9> do you live close to Emory?
[21:04:51] <ReadError> nah im up in north GA
[21:04:57] <ReadError> but i work downtown
[21:05:01] <ReadError> 7am-6pm
[21:05:11] <ReadError> so if you want you can swing by in the AM or PM
[21:05:20] <ReadError> or any time during the day
[21:05:35] <joe9> ok, will keep in touch. how much do I owe you?
[21:05:52] <ReadError> 25 will work or w/e
[21:05:57] <ReadError> unless you want to split shipping
[21:06:10] <ReadError> i needed some myself
[21:07:09] <joe9> fair enough, i will pay you $30. good enough?
[21:07:13] <ReadError> sure thing
[21:07:18] <ReadError> what exit is emory?
[21:07:30] <ReadError> my exit is 249 I think
[21:07:45] <ReadError> off 85
[21:07:56] <ReadError> or 75
[21:08:19] <joe9> near Grady or Midtown hospitals is the exit that I get off when on 85
[21:09:28] <joe9> those things are expensive with the shipping and all that. we need to find some other channel which is cheaper.
[21:09:33] <joe9> for next time.
[21:10:05] <ReadError> exit 249C toward Williams St/World Congress Center/Ga Dome/Aquarium
[21:10:12] <ReadError> thats off 75
[21:10:49] <andypugh> joe9: Buy a full container ($400 shipping, I think) and then sell on the excess :)
[21:10:57] <joe9> haha..
[21:11:05] <ReadError> Emory University Hospital
[21:11:09] <ReadError> is that where?
[21:11:13] <ReadError> says 249A
[21:11:41] <ReadError> peachtree?
[21:12:14] <ReadError> http://www.depts.ttu.edu/ece/ieee/documents/TTU_Milling_Tutorial_2011.pdf
[21:12:18] <ReadError> pretty solid tutorial
[21:13:40] <joe9> ReadError: i come from the intersection ponce de leon and Briarcliff.
[21:13:43] <andypugh> Odd Wikipedia fact, Hong Kong is the 48th most populous island in the World. They would have been my guess for most.
[21:14:04] <ReadError> hmmm i have no idea how atlanta is layed out
[21:14:11] <ReadError> i just know how to get to work pretty much ;)
[21:14:16] <pfred1> andypugh there are lots of crowded places anymore
[21:14:28] <andypugh> Yeah, the UK comes in at number 3
[21:14:42] <joe9> ReadError: that's fine. let me know when you receive it and we will figure out the logistics.
[21:14:45] <andypugh> (Actually, Great Britain is the Island)
[21:14:47] <ReadError> alright
[21:14:56] <pfred1> andypugh it is population density that matters
[21:15:00] <ReadError> also, im off thur-sat
[21:15:05] <ReadError> so if they come past wednesday
[21:15:09] <ReadError> i can just drop them in the mail
[21:15:14] <ReadError> and you will get them overnight
[21:15:19] <andypugh> Yes, but I thought Hong Kong was _really_ densely populated
[21:15:30] <ssi> hrm
[21:15:39] <ReadError> hey ssi
[21:15:42] <ReadError> i been meaning to ask you
[21:15:57] <ReadError> ever purchased any scrap aluminum around atlanta?
[21:16:02] <pfred1> andypugh it probably is but is small
[21:16:04] <ReadError> i want to get some stuff to learn on
[21:16:15] <ReadError> just some big old chunks
[21:16:26] <andypugh> pfred1: Err, yes. I was looking at the density page
[21:16:49] <pfred1> ReadError once you've cast aluminum you'll be like why didn't I do this sooner?
[21:16:52] <pfred1> it is so easy
[21:17:17] <pfred1> well it is easy to make "chunks"
[21:17:25] <ReadError> all my beer comes out of bottles or a keg ;(
[21:17:32] <jdhnc> pfred1: how much is the investment for al casting?
[21:17:37] <pfred1> well grab other people's cans then
[21:17:56] <pfred1> jdhnc I got $2 into my furnace
[21:18:08] <ReadError> propane get expensive ?
[21:18:14] <pfred1> I use wood
[21:18:24] <andypugh> jdhnc: Investment casting material is fairly cheap. (Ok, I admit to parsing your words wrong for comedic effect)
[21:18:54] <pfred1> you blast wood and it gets hot enough to melt aluminum
[21:19:21] <joe9> ReadError: ok, thanks.
[21:19:32] <pfred1> aluminum is 1250F lead is 800 so it isn't much different
[21:19:41] <andypugh> pfred1: You might want to consider making charcoal though.
[21:19:50] <ReadError> pfred1: i talked to a guy that would forge lead from old car batterys
[21:19:58] <pfred1> andypugh I use some charcoal but i have so much wood I burn it too
[21:19:59] <joe9> ReadError: i read up the .pdf file that you posted. it says that 90 degree bits can only do 16 mills. I need 10 mill traces.
[21:20:14] <jdhnc> car batteries seem like they would be pretty noxious
[21:20:16] <ReadError> he said he made really good money doing it
[21:20:17] * pfred1 literally has acres of wood
[21:20:21] <joe9> ReadError: the description of the bit says that it has a 5 mill tip
[21:20:31] <pfred1> well woods
[21:20:32] <andypugh> pfred1: Aye, when we melted the lead out of a second-hand pot on the coal stove we found it was aluminium in a heavy pot.
[21:20:44] <ReadError> joe9: hmm i need to do more research
[21:21:07] <ReadError> this is alot to learn so quick :)
[21:21:10] <pfred1> I overthunk melting aluminum after i did it I was like man I could have did it on the barbeque
[21:21:35] <ReadError> pfred1: got any pics of your "bricks" ?
[21:21:52] <andypugh> joe9: Whilst you might be in a real hurry, I will point out that you can have PCBs made for about $10 and have them back in 10 days, with 2 layers, resist, screen print and plating.
[21:21:54] <pfred1> just get a hair drier and disconnect the heat coils or leave them go doesn't matter stick that in some old tail pipe and have at it
[21:22:06] <Valen> andypugh: he's a friend (demon50s) and that product isn't that in stock lol
[21:22:22] <pfred1> you could dig a hole in your backyard and do it
[21:22:33] <ReadError> andypugh: most require a minimum order
[21:22:42] <ReadError> for rapid prototyping that might not be an option
[21:22:44] <Valen> ReadError: look at itead
[21:22:48] <pfred1> ReadError yeah i have a pic of my furnace but it is more elaborate than is needed
[21:22:53] <Valen> also captnkernel in #kicad
[21:22:58] <ReadError> i also require some boards that need to carry about 120A
[21:22:59] <pfred1> ReadError the trick is to blast your fire
[21:23:04] <ReadError> possibly more
[21:23:13] <pfred1> ReadError all that means is blow air on it
[21:23:14] <ReadError> so i need a super thick copper clad
[21:23:19] <Valen> we mill PCB's but then we often need much faster turn than 10 days
[21:23:36] <ReadError> plus, half the fun is doing it
[21:23:36] <pfred1> ReadError when you blast the fire it gets so much hotter
[21:23:40] <Valen> eh just flow some solder over regular copper
[21:23:43] <andypugh> ReadError: Yes, that $10 was the minimum order, and you get 10 PCBs for that
[21:24:29] <pfred1> ReadError some people use leaf blowers but they're a bit too much you have to figure out how to choke them down a little
[21:24:40] <pfred1> shop vacs are popular too
[21:24:51] <ReadError> pfred1: is it a pretty solid block?
[21:24:52] <ReadError> or brittle
[21:25:10] <pfred1> the brick i have is so soft yo ucan cut it with a hand saw I found some kilns
[21:25:23] <andypugh> Yes, milling PCBs make sense if you are in a real hurry. But if you can wait there are other options that (honestly) give you far better PCBs
[21:25:32] <Valen> andypugh: i agree
[21:25:46] <ReadError> andypugh: its kind of like, i can buy beer
[21:25:50] <pfred1> if milling PCBs was the way to go then all PCBs would be milled
[21:25:50] <ReadError> but i enjoy making my own
[21:26:01] <Valen> especially small stuff
[21:26:06] <Valen> solder mask is important
[21:26:15] <joe9> ReadError: these guys seem to have done it with those tips http://www.cunningturtle.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fireball_V90
[21:26:19] <andypugh> FWIW I am more than happy with these guys: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185
[21:26:22] <joe9> so, I guess we are ok on that front.
[21:26:36] <ReadError> andypugh: gotta wait on it to come from china
[21:26:40] <pfred1> the pros mist their boards
[21:27:07] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/milled-pcb-for-spinzster.jpg
[21:27:13] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/milled-soldermask-for-spinster-aluminium-close.jpg
[21:27:17] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/milled-soldermask-for-spinster-aluminium.jpg
[21:27:18] <ReadError> ThadiusB ordered a fireball v90
[21:27:22] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/milled-soldermask-for-spinster-printed.jpg
[21:27:30] <andypugh> ReadError: Yes, but I generally have so many other irons in the fire that I can wait for the PCBs
[21:28:16] <ReadError> ah
[21:28:41] <ReadError> speaking of soldering...
[21:28:45] <ReadError> im eyeballing a new station
[21:28:54] <andypugh> Meaning no offence, but that is a rather scruffy solder mask
[21:28:58] <ReadError> sra-solder.com/product.php/6267/26
[21:29:05] <ReadError> oops
[21:29:09] <ReadError> http://sra-solder.com/product.php/6267/26
[21:29:13] <Valen> andypugh: did the job ;-P
[21:29:22] <Valen> in what sense scruffy?
[21:29:41] <andypugh> It looks a bit ragged on the edges?
[21:29:53] <ReadError> it can use hakko tips
[21:30:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: Valen just called you scruffy, you gonna let her talk to you like that?
[21:30:24] <Valen> just burrs, came off with a brush
[21:30:33] <Valen> burrs/chips
[21:30:39] <andypugh> Jymmm: Nah, I think I called his soldermask scruffy
[21:30:51] <Jymmm> andypugh: ah, ok
[21:30:54] <pfred1> wow now I'm getting a build in color
[21:30:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: carryon
[21:31:22] <joe9> ReadError: check out weller. they are pretty good.
[21:31:31] <pfred1> I have a weller
[21:31:32] <andypugh> I have, so far, just relied on the solder resist to keep the pads separate.
[21:31:57] <andypugh> (which you get from Seeed and similar, but not on home-made)
[21:31:58] <ReadError> joe9: i have a 35w weller now
[21:32:07] <ReadError> but i want something for reflow
[21:32:18] <pfred1> I have a WTCPN
[21:32:19] <Jymmm> I have a 400w weller =)
[21:32:30] <Valen> ReadError: frying pan does a good job
[21:32:38] <Jymmm> toaster oven
[21:32:40] <Valen> as does a chunk of 6mm Al on the gas stove
[21:32:42] <ReadError> Valen: yea for general reflow
[21:32:48] <ReadError> but sometimes i need to hit a spot
[21:32:50] <ReadError> to remove 1 part
[21:32:57] <Jymmm> blowtorch
[21:33:00] <ReadError> lol
[21:33:03] <pfred1> hammer and chisel
[21:33:04] <ReadError> i got a heat gun ;)
[21:33:21] <Jymmm> blowtorch connected to 20# propane tank
[21:33:48] <andypugh> I love my TCP, but that is partly because I like the clever use of the Curie effect. I think that SRA station is suspiciously cheap.
[21:34:06] <ReadError> andypugh: everyone that has one loves them
[21:34:14] <ReadError> plus, you can use hakko tips
[21:34:16] <ReadError> which are nice
[21:34:41] <Valen> http://imgur.com/2rAEL
[21:34:42] <andypugh> I used to have a job making machines to break components off boards and balls of BGAs (and gold wires off chip dies)
[21:34:44] <Jymmm> Here's my soldering station http://www.frys.com/product/4825190?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
[21:34:59] <Jymmm> Why bother buying new tips when you can replace the whole damn thing =)
[21:35:05] <Valen> its actually full of water too
[21:35:19] <Valen> not a skin of water
[21:35:23] <ReadError> I like my weller
[21:35:24] <pfred1> I find if I keep my tips tinned right they last
[21:35:30] <ReadError> i just need a reflow station too
[21:35:39] <Jymmm> toaster oven
[21:35:46] <Valen> best way i have found of cleaning a tip is pushing it through paper
[21:35:51] <Valen> just a single sheet
[21:35:54] <Valen> then re-tin
[21:36:10] <Jymmm> I have a sal of amoia block for that
[21:36:11] <pfred1> Valen you're supposed to use a damp celluose sponge
[21:36:35] <pfred1> but in a pinch a soaked paper towel works too
[21:37:13] <pfred1> to recondition tips I sand them then dip them in my solder pot
[21:37:14] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfKsVfE68vs
[21:37:30] <andypugh> This was my baby: http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/dage/products/bondtesters/Pages/4000HSHighSpeedBondtester.aspx
[21:37:37] <pfred1> I buy oddball soldering irons a lot on the used market the tips are usually pretty rough on them
[21:37:58] <Jymmm> pfred1: get you a block then
[21:38:11] <pfred1> Jymmm a block of what?
[21:38:30] <Jymmm> pfred1: link I just posted
[21:38:47] <pfred1> Jymmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfKsVfE68vs ?
[21:39:36] <pfred1> nah I'm good with what i do thanks
[21:40:43] <andypugh> Valen: Do you Aussies pronounce the "l" in "solder". All the US Youtube clips call it "Sodder" (which sounds a bit rude to me)
[21:40:53] <skunkworks__> heh
[21:40:58] <pfred1> sod off!
[21:41:06] <Valen> i *HATE* sodder
[21:41:14] <skunkworks__> A good iron tip will re-tin by just cleaning it on a wet sponge.
[21:41:15] <Valen> its nothing remotley like the actual friggin word
[21:41:48] <ReadError> thats what we call it
[21:41:49] <ReadError> sodder
[21:41:51] <ReadError> heh
[21:41:55] <ReadError> atleast here in the south
[21:42:08] <ReadError> its hard to fit that L in
[21:42:11] <andypugh> I guess the US military is a bunch of soddiers?
[21:42:21] <skunkworks__> I can even make my tongue to say the L in solder
[21:42:42] <pfred1> we put a G into soldger
[21:42:58] <skunkworks__> it sounds like I am speaking Klingon
[21:43:13] <andypugh> The invisible "g" and the silent "l" ?
[21:43:16] <ReadError> yea its hard for me to put the l in
[21:43:26] <ReadError> my tongue wont bend that way or something
[21:43:28] <ReadError> heh
[21:43:37] <andypugh> sol der ?
[21:44:07] <pfred1> this is how americans say it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NYw83uAQig
[21:44:25] <andypugh> (Actually closer to sowl der in british english, but I will accept sol der
[21:44:48] <pfred1> oh solder
[21:44:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: you accept what we give you and you'll like it!
[21:45:12] <pfred1> yeah I guess we don't prounounce the l here either
[21:45:14] <andypugh> Jymmm: What language do you speak again?
[21:45:19] <pfred1> sodder heh
[21:45:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: Go write some html/css using colour and see how far you get!
[21:45:41] <pfred1> hand me that filthy roll of sodder will ya?
[21:45:54] <ReadError> sodder just sounds normal...
[21:46:04] <ReadError> hehe colour
[21:46:05] <ReadError> tyre
[21:46:08] <ReadError> windscreen!
[21:46:13] <pfred1> close the bonnet
[21:46:21] <ReadError> put it in the boot
[21:46:33] <andypugh> Jymmm: Actually, I am very dissapointed that <colour> tags don't work in html, as html was invented by an Englishman.
[21:46:55] <Jymmm> lol
[21:46:59] <pfred1> he knew it'd never fly on the American Internet
[21:47:29] <skunkworks__> after watching some British movies - we have decided we want our kids to have a British accent. (we are thinking of hiring a British nanny.)
[21:48:04] <skunkworks__> (yes we actually had that conversation - and I don't know if we were serious)
[21:48:11] * Jymmm replaces skunkworks__ British nanny with a Scandinavian one!
[21:48:30] <andypugh> OK, snarkiness aside, I think that Tommy Flowers has been horribly ignored by history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_flowers
[21:48:33] <Jymmm> skunkworks__: LU DA FISK!!!
[21:49:34] <pfred1> my uncle knew Tommy Two Guns
[21:49:39] <Jymmm> whats that nasty poisoned shark they eat only after it has rotted for months?
[21:50:14] <pfred1> lutte fish?
[21:50:48] <Jymmm> is it? I'm not sure. I thought ludasih was salted cod or soemthing
[21:51:01] <Jymmm> it's a different one
[21:51:34] <Jymmm> AH here we go... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl
[21:51:37] <Jymmm> pfred1: ^^^^^^^^^^
[21:52:11] <pfred1> I think lute fish or lutte fish or whatever it is is this nasty gelitinized miasma unfit for human consumption
[21:52:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: hakari is MUCH MUCH WORSE
[21:52:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutefisk
[21:53:33] <pfred1> oh man just the picture is turning my stomach
[21:54:25] <Jymmm> http://www.meemalee.com/2010/12/hakarl-rotten-shark-worst-thing-i-have.html
[21:55:23] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xhfJRdwHnU
[21:58:35] <Jymmm> hahahahahahahahahahahaha
[21:59:04] <Jymmm> Never seen ramsey do that before!
[22:03:01] <andypugh> I love May's comment. Far more insulting by it's mildness than anything else
[22:03:48] <ssi> ReadError: hey sorry, stepped away right as you were asking me
[22:03:57] <ssi> ReadError: I haven't found any sources of scrap... I buy all my metal retail sadly
[22:05:32] <Valen> Jymmm: rofl
[22:05:44] <Valen> i have some weird kind of bug were all the people come out blue
[22:05:49] <Valen> i think it made it funnier
[22:14:01] <ReadError> i need a dial indicator for my backlash testing i think
[22:14:10] <ssi> dial indicators are good to have
[22:14:25] <ReadError> i got my machinist square
[22:14:30] <ReadError> 4 1-2-3 blocks
[22:14:44] <ReadError> and a nice order from a2z with clamps and tnuts
[22:14:51] * pfred1 seconds dial indicators are good to have
[22:15:41] <pfred1> I have a pivot and a travel I only use the travel one
[22:16:13] <ReadError> i need a rotary table
[22:16:18] <pfred1> me too
[22:16:20] <ssi> I have several types, and most of them get used regularly in different situations :)
[22:16:31] <ssi> I got a nice rotary table from wholesale tool
[22:16:53] <pfred1> I have a collet indexer but I need collets for it
[22:17:08] <ReadError> ssi: how much?
[22:17:20] <ssi> http://www.wttool.com/index/page/product/product_id/20850/category_id/17676/product_name/Rotary+Tables+%28WT%29
[22:17:23] <ssi> that's the one I believe
[22:17:27] <ReadError> ssi: my idea is, i could essentailly expand my axis
[22:17:27] <pfred1> ssi how big?
[22:17:31] <ssi> 6"
[22:17:32] <ReadError> by being able to rotate
[22:17:45] <pfred1> nice size 4 too small 8 too big for my machine
[22:17:55] <ssi> I want to get another one
[22:18:00] <ssi> have one manual and convert one to stepper drive
[22:18:24] <ReadError> ya i want one with a stepper also
[22:19:19] <ssi> I actually need to bust out my rotary table in the next couple days
[22:19:25] <ssi> since my plasma table is out of commission at the moment
[22:19:40] <ssi> I need to cut a 5" diameter circle out of some 6x24" 1/8" ss304 flatbar
[22:20:01] <ssi> I think I might try to bolt it down to the rotab and use it to mill around the circle
[22:20:06] <ssi> like some kind of goddamned animal
[22:20:44] <pfred1> big big big hole saw
[22:20:50] <ssi> yeah extra big
[22:20:50] <ssi> lul
[22:20:55] <ssi> or a flycutter
[22:21:10] <djdelorie> double sided tape and a lathe!
[22:21:15] <pfred1> SS is going to be rough no matter how you cut it
[22:21:17] <ssi> double sided tape?
[22:21:37] <ssi> hm if I was really really really really really careful
[22:21:51] <ssi> I could mount a 6x6 square in inside jaws of a 4jaw
[22:21:58] <ssi> and then turn a circle into it
[22:22:03] <ssi> and it'd pop out the center
[22:22:12] <ssi> that might not be a bad idea actually
[22:22:12] <djdelorie> google "woodturner's tape"
[22:22:27] <ssi> djdelorie: would that really hold up for metal turning?
[22:23:10] <djdelorie> if you take light cuts, I bet it would. It's difficult to get the piece back off the lathe when using it
[22:23:27] <ssi> I guess the upside is
[22:23:38] <ssi> you have a lot of adhesive area, and it's all loaded in shear
[22:23:40] <djdelorie> and bring up your tailstock too
[22:23:42] <ssi> probably quite strong actually
[22:24:55] <Valen> with a blank 1mm smaller than the part on the tailstock you wouldn't even need the tape
[22:25:13] <ssi> hah that's a neat idea too
[22:25:44] <djdelorie> Valen: if nothing else, the tape transfers rotational force
[22:25:54] <Valen> crank the tailstock harder
[22:26:04] <ssi> yeah, spindle bearings are overrated :D
[22:26:11] <Valen> in chinese lathes
[22:26:13] <Valen> yeah they are
[22:26:38] <Valen> your not going to need tonnes of force on it or anything
[22:26:51] <Valen> just quite firmly would do it
[22:32:04] <pfred1> anyone mess with this? http://www.pointclouds.org/
[22:39:07] <andypugh> No, but I am aware how tricky point clouds are to process
[22:55:22] <jdhnc> is there a repository of hostmot2 firmware files?
[22:56:48] <jdhnc> there is supposed to be a SVST2_4_7I47 for 7i43-2, but I can't seem to find it.
[22:57:15] <Tom_itx> is it on the mesa site?
[22:57:24] <Tom_itx> i may have that one..
[22:58:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/hostmot2-firmware/
[22:58:49] <Tom_itx> those are from a zip from mesa i think
[22:59:20] <Tom_itx> pin file anyway
[23:00:33] <Tom_itx> mine is the -4 though
[23:03:31] <jdhnc> does mesa have a download page?
[23:03:44] <Tom_itx> it's under the 7i43 card description
[23:03:50] <Tom_itx> a zip file
[23:04:00] <Tom_itx> http://www.mesanet.com/
[23:04:13] <jdhnc> ahh... I had that already
[23:04:22] <Tom_itx> it may be in that file
[23:04:32] <Tom_itx> i think that's the stuff in my directory
[23:04:50] <Tom_itx> if it's not in there ask pcw for it
[23:05:43] <Tom_itx> in the zip look under configs/hostmot2
[23:09:37] <Tom_itx> l8r
[23:15:16] <pcw_home> SVST2_4_7I47S.BIT is for the 7I43-2
[23:19:09] <jdhnc> it's not in the linuxcnc distribution though?
[23:21:39] <jdhnc> pncconf needs the xml to set it up?
[23:24:38] <jdhnc> SVST2_4_7I47S.BIT sounds like it would be for the S version of the 7i47, not the small 7i43