#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-10

[00:00:00] <ssi> In order to engrave on bare metal, you'll need a laser engraver with a minimum of 25 watts and utilize a metal marking spray such as Cermark.
[00:01:06] <ssi> http://www.cermarc.com/
[00:04:23] <Tecan> thanks
[00:05:10] <Jymmm> cermark does NOT engrave/etch, it only marks most metal.
[00:05:15] <ssi> yeah
[00:35:52] <Tecan> do you guys know off hand if its possable to send more commands while its waiting to finish a g01 ?
[00:36:01] <ssi> sure, but they queue up
[00:36:49] <Tecan> i thought emc is threaded though :)
[00:38:32] <djdelorie> but your machine is not
[00:38:55] <Tecan> i just want to send spindle speeds
[00:39:11] <Tecan> thats a diff pin
[00:39:37] <Tecan> maybe it does send them
[00:39:50] <Tecan> i just need to interpolate more
[00:41:14] <Tecan> it just seemed like it was waiting on the g01 commands to finish
[00:41:15] <ssi> spindle override is the only way I know of to vary spindle speed once you're already in a move
[02:02:34] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:03:05] <mk0> moin
[02:04:00] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:12:41] <mk0> ))
[07:21:15] <witdraak> sup can anyone tell me how to change the shortcut commands of linuxcnc?
[07:21:36] <witdraak> or diret me to a usefull site
[07:29:35] <witdraak> ...anyone online?
[07:31:33] <archivist> witdraak, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/12642
[07:42:54] <Thadius> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Keyboard_Shortcuts
[07:42:55] <Thadius> ??
[07:49:08] <witdraak> thanx ill have look there now
[07:49:53] <witdraak> damn seen that but were do you change them?
[07:50:38] <archivist> see what I pointed you to
[07:51:20] <witdraak> checking
[08:12:01] <DJ9DJ> re
[08:38:24] <jthornton> Jymmm, I finally solved the log in problem with my hosting site... I had to use Opera to log in
[08:40:22] <witdraak> guessing you had conflicting rights on the other IS's
[08:41:20] <jthornton> I don't have a clue :/
[08:41:55] <jthornton> firefox and explorer would not work is all I knew and the hosting site just kept saying it ain't my fault
[08:43:36] <witdraak> @archivist im using the old 2.5 linuxCNC will this affect the command keys coz my "pendant" got F5 for "machine on/off" and a few other hot wired keys
[08:44:33] <witdraak> oh maby they share some keys that opera not sharing witch allow opera to get in like deny from this site
[08:46:35] <witdraak> could have said if you clear all your data on IE or firefox and maby take restrictions a notch down youd propable be able to logg in with them
[08:47:05] <witdraak> but glad to hear your atleast able to logg in
[08:50:08] <jthornton> I cleared all the cashe for both of them, funny thing I can log on with any browser if I use my dialup account
[08:50:13] <ssi> morn
[08:50:32] <skunkworks> ssi: order the drives? ;)
[08:50:37] <ssi> yep!
[08:50:42] <ssi> got three of those 80v 30a drives
[08:50:52] <ssi> now I just gotta locate suitable motors
[08:51:05] <skunkworks> jthornton: I just had goofy issues with satellite.. Some sites work - some didn't
[08:51:15] <skunkworks> but that was a while ago.
[08:51:54] <jthornton> I like the suggestion by the hosting account tech's "just switch to a different ISP"
[08:52:15] <jthornton> yea with 23.786 months left to go on the contract
[08:53:14] <skunkworks> (it was still way better than dialup... )
[08:54:08] <jthornton> yea, once I get all the bugs worked out it will be
[08:56:57] <witdraak> i know with me working on different sites i do have a conflict on proxy's they tend to block certain ports which you probably using on that loggin
[08:57:56] <witdraak> that may be the reason aswel your unable but if you using a different IE im not sure if that may be a problem
[09:57:30] <tom3p> I noticed Axis jog key response can be sluggush with large files.
[09:57:35] <tom3p> I had crazy big lithophane (26meg) and tapping the PGDN key would move tool down a hair after a few second delay.
[09:57:36] <tom3p> The nth tap caused several mm of travel, not a fraction of a mm as before.
[09:58:25] <tom3p> just a beware for those who might encounter same, use the jog increment! and wait for each command to complete)
[10:00:50] <JT-Shop> yea, if the CPU is loaded down the keyboard seems to get left behind... you can turn off the preview to save a bunch of number crunching
[10:03:29] <tom3p> oh good trick ! thanks
[10:16:59] <MattyMatt> bigger than yours? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NILES-HEAVY-DUTY-ENGINE-LATHE-60-SWING-X-56FT-C-TO-C-/110624780490
[10:17:48] <ries> MattyMatt: I wonder how the 'Add to cart' works, won't find IMHO….
[10:17:51] <ries> won't fit..
[10:18:24] <MattyMatt> that zinc stain on the base, that was the cart
[10:18:47] <archivist> we got a 24ft bed lathe for a museum for a lot less money
[10:19:47] <archivist> 26ft http://www.claymills.org.uk/tour/p1010345.jpg
[10:20:22] <MattyMatt> I've seen bigger swings and chucks, but 56ft is insane. is there any metal stock that long?
[10:21:11] <archivist> probably by special order these days
[10:21:15] <MattyMatt> ah ship crankshafts I guess
[10:21:29] <archivist> they are often built up
[10:25:19] <skunkworks> 9.Spindle bore 2 ¾ inches
[10:25:25] <skunkworks> wow - that seems small ;)
[10:26:12] <archivist> some little toys at http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/William_Doxford_and_Sons#The_Manufacturing_Process
[10:26:30] <TekniQue> yeah I was about to paste that link
[10:26:33] <TekniQue> lots of porn there
[10:26:35] <TekniQue> http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/images/a/a4/PlaningJointFlangeBedplate.jpg
[10:26:57] <TekniQue> this lathe is my favorite http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/images/b/b7/Mainjournalsmachined1.jpg
[10:27:11] <TekniQue> there's a cradle for the operator on the X axis
[10:27:25] <TekniQue> well, a foot step anyway
[10:36:23] <ries> no safety hets, no safety glasses...
[10:38:19] <ReadError> TekniQue: you on efnet too?
[10:42:07] <TekniQue> yes
[10:43:46] <syyl> i think
[10:43:53] <syyl> if there goes something wrong
[10:44:03] <syyl> neither hardhat or safetyglasses will help :D
[10:44:16] <TekniQue> and nowadays this kind of manufacturing is all done in china
[10:44:26] <syyl> naa
[10:44:26] <TekniQue> and there's no shortage of people in china
[10:44:46] <TekniQue> I used to import refrigeration machines from china
[10:44:56] <syyl> at least here in germany there are still a lot of companies that do large scale machining
[10:45:01] <TekniQue> and there was no such thing as safety earth or anything like that in them
[10:45:32] <TekniQue> we pretty much had to rewire the whole thing
[10:45:52] <TekniQue> those were big industrial machines
[10:59:02] <skunkworks> seb!
[11:00:33] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: no bug reports in 2.5.0 yet :-)
[11:01:27] <skunkworks> Yay!
[11:02:59] <syyl> hmm
[11:03:05] <syyl> maybe i should update?
[11:03:26] <cradek> all signs point to it being a good release
[11:07:56] <thinpete> Its really nice that the live CD supports all of our hardware now
[11:16:38] <thinpete> And finally got Hostmot2 over UDP running with only 10 or so nasty bugs still to find (and it runs at about 5KHz with just userland python I/O) Still have about 600 instructions left (out of 2K). Seems only a little slower than the target only PCI cards (maybe 4 MB/sec instead of 8) but Much better than EPP (< 1 MByte/sec)
[11:23:28] <Jymmm> thinpete: Next try ICMP! lol
[11:23:44] <thinpete> Already done (echo only)
[11:23:51] <thinpete> and ARP
[11:24:05] <Jymmm> thinpete: The hell with echo!
[11:24:50] <Jymmm> thinpete: Is this pure ethernet or CAN ?
[11:25:02] <thinpete> Ethernet
[11:25:09] <Jymmm> hawt damn!
[11:26:03] <Jymmm> thinpete: don't forget to toss in a DoS in there too
[11:26:05] <thinpete> Even ARP cannot be used in real time only UDP but I want to be able to use it with standard networks at least for setup/FPGA download
[11:26:54] <Jymmm> screw setup, live real time command and control baby!
[11:27:30] <Jymmm> ethernet chipsets are cheap!
[11:28:31] <thinpete> At first I was just going to use martian packets but it makes it so much easier to test if it gets along with the rest of the world (whats 28 bytes of wasted header at 12 MB/sec)
[11:29:01] <Jymmm> Nice
[11:29:04] <TekniQue> UDP is lovely
[11:29:31] <Jymmm> Now, we'll just have to find old fashion hubs instead of switches!
[11:29:40] <TekniQue> I wrote an IP stack that only does UDP, ICMP and ARP a few years ago to run on ARM microcontrollers
[11:30:04] <TekniQue> very simple, very little RAM needed
[11:30:14] <thinpete> looks like it will have about 30 uSec latency for the read part of the cycle (say 6 axis)
[11:30:58] <Jymmm> no way dude, scarp the project!
[11:31:03] <thinpete> and writes are effectively "posted"
[11:31:03] <Jymmm> scrap
[11:31:23] <Dave911> thinpete: What motion cards are useful via UDP ?
[11:31:31] <thinpete> I have plenty of RAM (2K and I think i will bump it to 4K)
[11:31:43] <thinpete> only 2 K of code space so far
[11:31:49] <thinpete> 7I80
[11:31:58] <TekniQue> thinpete: what hardware are you running this on?
[11:32:07] <TekniQue> fpga with a soft core?
[11:32:09] <Jymmm> thinpete: that includes the tcp/ip stack too?
[11:32:26] <Jymmm> err udp/ip
[11:32:35] <thinpete> 7I80: 7I43 like FPGA card with Ethernet and spartan6
[11:32:36] <Dave911> Nice... I'll need to check that out..
[11:32:45] <thinpete> and 72 I/O
[11:32:57] <thinpete> should be very cheap
[11:33:10] <TekniQue> nice
[11:33:14] <Dave911> Nice to get away from the LPT port
[11:33:21] <Jymmm> thinpete: you using a switch or hub?
[11:33:43] <TekniQue> I went with ethernet on that project I did years ago because it was more reliable than USB
[11:33:58] <thinpete> Well stack is a pretty high highfalutin word for the simple master slave UDP echo code I have
[11:34:21] <Dave911> If it is point to point, can you just use a crossover cable?
[11:34:37] <Jymmm> thinpete: I meant as far as the 2k/4k goes
[11:34:43] <thinpete> Dont need it (MDIX)
[11:34:49] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[11:35:33] <Jymmm> Dave911: automux. but I meant for inteconnects.
[11:35:49] <Jymmm> interconnects
[11:36:25] <thinpete> I could do with less RAM if I transferred directly from the Ethernet chip to the hardware
[11:36:27] <thinpete> but thats really awkward code wise
[11:36:40] <Jymmm> thinpete: It'll be nice to see this come to light.
[11:37:18] <TekniQue> thinpete: are you using an ethernet controller chip or just a PHY?
[11:38:17] <thinpete> Ethernet chip (KS8851-16) same physical size as a PHY
[11:38:47] <thinpete> (qfp48)
[11:39:00] <Jymmm> wth is the 7i80 on the website?
[11:39:07] <thinpete> not yet
[11:39:32] <Jymmm> oh
[11:39:37] <thinpete> but it should be cheap (sort of 7I43 like)
[11:40:03] <Jymmm> less paraport
[11:40:23] <TekniQue> thinpete: SPI interface?
[11:40:24] <Jymmm> Heh, 7180 + uSD card slot =)
[11:41:29] <thinpete> LinuxCNC support is not trivial however (still needs a very basic stripped down real time packet xmit and recv facility for supported host Ethernet chips)
[11:41:30] <Dave911> I want to try one of those - 7i80s, Pete... roughly how long till they are out?
[11:43:27] <thinpete> I have protos now, the production 7I80s will probably be a few weeks out)
[11:43:29] <thinpete> (plus there will be more Ethernet FPGA cards coming)
[11:45:26] <Jymmm> thinpete: In the 7143 or others with USB, is it possible to use a uSD/SD card to store/load the FPGA code so no computer is even needed?
[11:46:38] <Jymmm> Like "booting" from a usbstick sorta kinda
[11:46:48] <thinpete> the 7I43 (and 7I80) have on card SPI flash so can load the FPGA at power-up
[11:48:55] * Jymmm checks the pricelist
[11:49:39] <Jymmm> Hmmm, ok a tad out of budget to just "play around" with. =)
[11:51:02] <thinpete> build your own (its all open source)
[11:52:12] <Jymmm> thinpete: Oh it's all good. It cost more to build than buy, but When I say play around, I mean like blinking an LED sorta thing. More of a learning tool for FPGA than anything else (at this time).
[11:53:00] <Jymmm> or goofing around with home automation, temp/climate recording/control, etc
[11:53:30] <Jymmm> basically a glorified ardunio
[11:53:55] <thinpete> probably a FPGA dev board Digilent or some such would be bettter for that
[11:54:09] <thinpete> from digilent
[11:54:24] <Loetmichel> *MAN* am I a lazy dog... Webcam + VNC = supervise the mill from the desk PC... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13060
[11:54:52] <Jymmm> thinpete: But I couldn't harass the mfg via irc when I typo code and it's my fault=)
[11:56:58] <thinpete> :-)
[12:00:27] <Jymmm> thinpete: dumb question... I'm reading the description of the 5i25 and it mentions the G540. So it exceeds the 20mS (or whatever) timing cycle limitation of standard paraport?
[12:01:36] <cradek> it's very easy for a microstepping drive to want steps faster than you can make them with software step generation
[12:02:33] <frysteev_> Loetmichel: im desperate for a webgui type app or thingy to remote monitor emc
[12:02:35] <Jymmm> cradek: But I thought it was a paraport spec limitation, not hw/sw step generation that was the issue.
[12:03:12] <cradek> no, I don't think the parport hardware is ever the limitation
[12:03:57] <Jymmm> I thought SWPadnos said somethign once about 20mS CLK/cycle or something, I dont recall.
[12:04:18] <Loetmichel> frysteev_: why not use VNC or even RDP?
[12:04:36] <frysteev_> vnc is a hog on system performance
[12:04:39] <cradek> you might mean 20us, and I bet he was not talking about the hardware
[12:04:46] <Loetmichel> works like a charm here... ok, with 1gbit network ;-)
[12:05:12] <Jymmm> cradek: yeah, that was it.
[12:05:44] <Loetmichel> ok, my CNC box has a C2D E8400
[12:05:45] <Jymmm> cradek: I'm not sure, I thought it was RS-??? paraport spec.
[12:05:57] <thinpete> I dont think the parallel port takes more than 1 Usec or so worst case fro a read or write access
[12:05:57] <Jymmm> Rs-1354???
[12:05:59] <Loetmichel> so maybe thats the reason it runs smooth ;-)
[12:06:31] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: RS422 IIRC
[12:06:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: that's serial
[12:06:47] <thinpete> parallel port spec is IEEE-1284
[12:07:08] <Loetmichel> oh, i just saw
[12:07:11] <Jymmm> ah, yeah 1284, why I was thinnking RS I have nfc =)
[12:17:00] <ssi> thinpete: what's the 7I80?
[12:17:20] <ssi> oh I see where you described it now
[12:17:23] <ssi> that sounds wonderful
[12:22:13] <frysteev_> ssi: hows your hnc going?
[12:35:27] <IchGuckLive> hi all O.O
[12:56:33] <alex4nder> getns
[12:59:03] <MattyMatt> Jymmm, the Xula is the neatest fpga dev kit atm imo http://www.xess.com/prods/prod048.php
[13:02:27] <MattyMatt> it leaves the neatest hole in your pocket, anyway :)
[13:02:33] <MattyMatt> $55
[13:02:58] <MattyMatt> + 20c postage if they tape it to a postcard
[13:03:07] <TekniQue> nice
[13:03:30] <TekniQue> I have a few fpga dev kits, all Altera though
[13:03:55] <alex4nder> what're you doing with it?
[13:03:58] <TekniQue> only Xilinx kit I have is for a coolrunner cpld
[13:04:18] <MattyMatt> I'd use a xula for reprap
[13:04:28] <TekniQue> alex4nder: I made a motorsport ECU
[13:04:58] <alex4nder> TekniQue: hah I sell motorsports ECUs
[13:05:09] <alex4nder> and tune, but not so much anymore
[13:05:15] <TekniQue> yeah?
[13:05:37] <alex4nder> yup, mainly Autronic but some MoTeC
[13:05:51] <TekniQue> I have tuned both
[13:05:59] <TekniQue> I like Motec better
[13:06:18] <TekniQue> Autronic used to be innovative but they lagged behind for the past decade
[13:06:31] <alex4nder> hah
[13:06:53] <alex4nder> I don't think that's true, but to each his own.
[13:07:35] <TekniQue> maybe they picked up some slack after getting rid of Ray Hall
[13:07:38] <TekniQue> I don't know
[13:08:04] <alex4nder> haha you know Ray?
[13:08:08] <alex4nder> that guy
[13:08:18] <TekniQue> I don't know him personally
[13:08:30] <alex4nder> you're in eastern Australia?
[13:08:36] <TekniQue> but a friend of mine has been in contact with him
[13:08:43] <TekniQue> being an Autronic dealer
[13:08:45] <TekniQue> no, Iceland
[13:09:14] <alex4nder> you friends with the guys at MRM?
[13:09:30] <alex4nder> or someone else?
[13:09:42] <TekniQue> someone else
[13:09:58] <alex4nder> ah
[13:10:09] <TekniQue> MRM is in Sweden
[13:10:11] <alex4nder> yup
[13:10:23] <alex4nder> but they're the big northern european support group
[13:11:12] <alex4nder> well cool
[13:13:14] <TekniQue> I remember Hall stirred up quite some shit against Richard Aubert a few years ago
[13:13:26] <TekniQue> after Hall started selling the Link systems from NZ
[13:15:00] <alex4nder> yah, it was bizarre.
[13:15:01] <IchGuckLive> Question someone has ever made a path G-code from a 3D model around the middel so the shape is pnly the path ?
[13:15:46] <alex4nder> IchGuckLive: I don't understand
[13:15:49] <IchGuckLive> silhouette
[13:16:11] <IchGuckLive> lets say you got the standard 3D view
[13:16:29] <archivist> see slicing algorithms
[13:16:32] <IchGuckLive> top left front
[13:17:59] <IchGuckLive> archivist: Thanks any tip for linux
[13:18:35] <IchGuckLive> http://slic3r.org/
[13:18:58] <alex4nder> 3d printers have it so easy
[13:20:29] <ssi> frysteev_: it's more or less done
[13:20:38] <alex4nder> sup ssi
[13:20:52] <ssi> work... the usual :)
[13:21:49] <alex4nder> werd
[13:22:24] <frysteev_> wee
[13:22:59] <ssi> frysteev_: pretty much all I have left is fancy stuff like a front panel and a pendant
[13:23:17] <ssi> also I have a desire to gain control over the original varispeed and use it full-up and full-down as an additional gearchange
[13:23:20] <frysteev_> ooo
[13:23:30] <frysteev_> wans there a pendant?
[13:23:31] <ssi> I don't have enough low end torque at my lowest speed
[13:23:32] <ssi> no
[13:23:35] <ssi> but I wants one :)
[13:23:52] <frysteev_> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/541631034-CNC-3-Axis-USB-Handle-Wheel-Pulse-Generator-pendant-for-Mach3-engraving-Router-wholesalers.html
[13:23:59] <frysteev_> i still wanna hack that for emc
[13:24:43] <ssi> yeah that'd be pretty good
[13:24:51] <ssi> I wonder if it's a decent mpg with detents
[13:25:40] <ssi> I want a pendant with an MPG, axis selector, pulse multiplier selector, estop, cycle start, collet open, collet close, and maybe a couple buttons for custom macros
[13:26:04] <djdelorie> ssi: you want a *keyboard* :-)
[13:26:16] <ssi> no, I'm already dragging the damn keyboard into the enclosure with me
[13:26:31] <ssi> I just want the ability to do setups and touch off tools without having to walk back and forth to the computer a hundred times
[13:26:41] <ssi> also I want the ability to hold a part in the collet and close it
[13:26:45] <ssi> AT THE SAME TIME
[13:26:49] <ssi> crazy I know
[13:27:11] <frysteev_> ssi: voice activation
[13:28:31] <ssi> indeed
[13:29:39] <frysteev_> ssi: buy that pendant and let me know how it goes :P
[13:30:00] <ssi> eh, not right now
[13:30:02] <ssi> front panel comes first :)
[13:30:11] <ssi> I'm also concerned about my pendant being coolantproof
[13:30:15] <ssi> the hnc is an oily bastard
[13:31:10] <frysteev_> just the way you like it
[13:31:19] <ssi> sometimes!
[13:32:34] <Loetmichel> next step done: gained 30mm movement in Y, fixed the Ballscrew nut to y bar... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13063
[14:00:00] <Connor> Hey guys, I have a few questions about making a enclosure for the electronics.
[14:01:46] <Connor> First question.. I'm using Keling 5056 controllers.. How much space do I need between them for ventilation.
[14:02:15] <Connor> The chassis I'm using is a 19" Rackmount PC case with 2 x 40mm fans in the rear, and a optional 80mm fan in the front.
[14:02:45] <Connor> Power Distribution: How do most people wire up the power buss's in their enclosures? I.E. Buss bars, terminal strips, etc.
[14:02:52] <Connor> Cables: Dressing the wires etc.. Gauge of wire to use for power and for signal etc?
[14:02:59] <Connor> Connectors: I've got 4 Pin CB Style connectors for the Steppers, what about other stuff such as limit switches, E-STOP etc?
[14:03:07] <Connor>  Mains Power: I need 1 for the PSU for the PC, 1 for the 48v PSU, and 1 for the BOB. What is the best way, just use separate power cords ?
[14:27:23] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: OPEN SOURCE?! Who in the hell uses open source???? (very cool actually)
[14:28:24] <Jymmm> Connor: D-Sub connectors are cheap and plentiful
[14:28:40] <frysteev_> but the cheapo ones are horrible
[14:29:28] <Jymmm> frysteev_: I have no idea what you're talking about
[14:29:41] <Connor> I'm definally using the CB 4-pins for the Steppers. But, the other questions are more important. The gauge of wire, the spacing, the power buss etc etc.
[14:29:50] <frysteev_> d sub connectors, the no name ones, melt at too low of temps
[14:30:18] <Jymmm> frysteev_: Melt?! it's frinkin signals, not power.
[14:30:29] <Connor> frysteev_: They're work fine for limit switches.
[14:31:17] <Jymmm> frysteev_: and crimp if you can't solder without melting
[14:32:46] <TekniQue> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/2-1586041-4/A30625-ND/701630
[14:32:52] <TekniQue> this is my favorite cheap connector
[14:35:21] <Loetmichel> SHI* anyone here who can tell me what i have build there? That was sipposed to be a 1:5 planetary.... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11714&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:35:45] <Loetmichel> just tested: more like 1:3,5?
[14:36:25] <Loetmichel> (have a 200 fullsteps/rev stepper and a 10mm/rev leadscrew and wanted to have 200 steps/mm
[14:36:27] <Loetmichel> )
[14:37:46] <frysteev_> Jymmm: soldering them.
[14:38:11] <djdelorie> Jymmm: I only use open source copper, for example
[14:38:18] <Jymmm> frysteev_: Yeah, I know. That's why I said you should be crimping instead.
[14:38:23] <djdelorie> none of that proprietary copper for me!
[14:38:37] <Jymmm> djdelorie: So you're the one stealing all the coper pipes you bastard!
[14:38:48] <djdelorie> no, I make my own, from copper ore
[14:39:07] <Jymmm> djdelorie: from copper pipe ore that is
[14:39:24] <djdelorie> it's "recycling" :-)
[14:39:39] <Jymmm> so it taking a dump
[14:39:54] <Loetmichel> where did i go wrong?
[14:39:56] <TekniQue> Loetmichel: looks like 1:3.333
[14:40:21] <Loetmichel> TekniQue: yes, thats abbout what i had tested
[14:40:23] <Loetmichel> grrr
[14:40:30] <Loetmichel> now i have to make a new one
[14:41:05] <Loetmichel> has anyone the right Sun/planet/spur teeth for a 1:5?
[14:41:09] <djdelorie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicyclic_gearing has a chart of gearing ratios for those
[14:43:47] <archivist> Loetmichel, are you sure you want to do it that way, backlash in the gearbox
[14:43:49] <Loetmichel> hmm, there are only so much teeth combinations which can be made with 3 or 4 planets
[14:44:07] <Loetmichel> archivist: lesst than a step, so no problem
[14:44:22] <archivist> er what!
[14:44:35] <MattyMatt> you don't have to have the planets evenly spaced. that gives more options
[14:44:43] <Loetmichel> made the gears to "press fit" ;-)
[14:45:02] <archivist> tooth clearance
[14:45:27] <Loetmichel> non needed, the planets are made of delrin
[14:45:28] <archivist> and that can be multiplied by the ratio
[14:45:34] <Loetmichel> which can flex a bit
[14:46:15] <Loetmichel> but i have NO idea how to fit the 1:5 inside there
[14:46:51] <MattyMatt> how many teeth have you got already? I don't feel like counting your outer ring
[14:47:17] <MattyMatt> I presume you'd prefer to keep the outer ring you've got
[14:47:36] <djdelorie> looks like, for 1:5, you need 4x the teeth in the outer ring than the sun gear ?
[14:47:54] <Loetmichel> 40:12*4:16
[14:48:21] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: no, i dont have to
[14:48:37] <Loetmichel> cause they are alle milled by myself
[14:48:55] <Loetmichel> but i am constricted to the room there
[14:49:33] <archivist> the barrel has sun and planet inside http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2008/2008_07_15_p1010006_Webb_Clock/p1010006.jpg
[14:49:37] <MattyMatt> 1+annulus_teeth/sun_teeth
[14:49:49] <MattyMatt> so yeah you want 4x the teeth on the outer
[14:50:07] <MattyMatt> oorter ring
[14:50:17] <Loetmichel> so the outer diameter HAS to be 30mm and the sun as to fit on the 6,35mm stepper axle
[14:50:40] <Loetmichel> annulus is the spur gear?
[14:50:51] <MattyMatt> no annulus = outer
[14:50:56] <MattyMatt> latin for ring
[14:50:59] <Loetmichel> ah
[14:51:02] <Loetmichel> ahhh"
[14:51:18] <Loetmichel> <- just got where anus comes from ;-)
[14:51:28] <MattyMatt> no anus = old woman
[14:51:48] <Loetmichel> <- had no latin in school
[14:52:30] <MattyMatt> I had 2 years, seems I remember a couple of words :)
[14:52:39] <Loetmichel> anyways: that size nonstrictions are bad
[14:52:46] <djdelorie> can you do two layers?
[14:52:57] <MattyMatt> 1 year and 2 terms, then I stowed away on a boat to shanghai
[14:53:09] <Loetmichel> i could but i dont want to put THAT much play in it
[14:53:23] <MattyMatt> tried to anyway. padlocks on the lifeboat covers
[14:53:53] <djdelorie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Planetary_gear9.svg
[14:53:57] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: why not hired as a deckhand on a freighter?
[14:54:27] <MattyMatt> I was 12, but they were chinese, so maybe I shoulda
[14:54:29] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: and that should tell me what?
[14:54:39] <djdelorie> did you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicyclic_gearing ?
[14:54:42] <MattyMatt> 40:15:10 = 5:1
[14:54:56] <MattyMatt> and keeps your existing annulus
[14:55:09] <Loetmichel> hmmm MAYBE i can fit that inside there ;-)
[14:55:47] <Loetmichel> but: 10 will not fit on the stepper
[14:55:57] <archivist> you dont have to use internal gears, specially as you can reverse the stepper
[14:56:14] <Loetmichel> ?
[14:56:23] <djdelorie> put the stepper in your mill, mill teeth right into the shaft :-)
[14:56:40] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: THAT is a neat idea!
[14:57:44] <djdelorie> you might need to switch to 2 planet gears though, 3 might not fit
[14:57:51] <archivist> only if your gear is a sensible number for 200step division
[14:58:05] <djdelorie> bonus: you don't need a rotary table to move the stepper shaft, just wire up the stepper :-)
[14:58:37] <archivist> less points due to tooth form error
[14:59:13] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: i didnt needed anyway
[14:59:26] <Loetmichel> i mill them from above
[14:59:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11711
[14:59:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11702
[14:59:55] <archivist> adding resolution with the gearbox and throwing accuracy away by methods used
[15:00:22] <Loetmichel> archivist: that is for a mill made of scrap
[15:00:46] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11642
[15:00:47] <archivist> I understand made from scrap
[15:00:56] <Loetmichel> any questions on accuracy?
[15:01:22] <Loetmichel> right, made from parts oxidizin in the corner ;-)
[15:01:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11648
[15:01:55] <Loetmichel> you see?
[15:02:09] <archivist> what are the extra steps you gain for, accuracy or resolution or just because you can
[15:02:35] <Loetmichel> (the gantry standups will be remilled in 14mm aluminum as soon as it runs with the wooden ones, my other mill is to small)
[15:02:38] <archivist> just microstep
[15:02:53] <Loetmichel> archivist: the L297 cant microstep
[15:03:05] <Loetmichel> and the steppers have 1A/phase
[15:03:32] <Loetmichel> not the most torque, so i want to gear them down for torque also
[15:03:40] <archivist> ok then the gearing will add torque too
[15:03:56] <Loetmichel> and i have found that similar steps in x and y are good wehn setting um a CNC
[15:04:53] <Loetmichel> Problem is that the x linear rail has a 1mm/rev leadscrew and the y axis has a 5mm/rev leadstcrew
[15:04:59] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: 2A http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002580-l298n_dual_h_bridge_stepper_motor_driver_controller_board_module.html
[15:05:49] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i am making this CNC for a coworker. I won't pay any money for it
[15:06:16] <Loetmichel> so i unse what he has provided/what is surplus here
[15:06:23] <Jymmm> BOB http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002537-5_axis_interface_board_for_stepper_motor_driver_cnc_mill_w_cable.html
[15:06:44] <Loetmichel> and thats an old 3dstep board from www.mechapro.de
[15:06:51] <Loetmichel> and some 1A steppers
[15:07:02] <Loetmichel> and some plastics/aluminium ;-)
[15:07:03] <Jymmm> and it's $7
[15:07:24] <Loetmichel> Jymmm. doesent help
[15:07:26] <MattyMatt> m8 leadscrews? :)
[15:07:29] <Loetmichel> as written above
[15:07:40] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: NO
[15:07:43] <Jymmm> http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002539-3_axis_stepper_motor_driver_controller_board.html
[15:07:43] <Loetmichel> BTDT
[15:07:43] <MattyMatt> my plywood mill still has M8 on Y and Z
[15:07:46] <Loetmichel> (M5)
[15:07:49] <MattyMatt> :)
[15:08:28] <Loetmichel> lasted about 50 hrs or so, then the nut ws a clean 5mm pipe
[15:08:33] <Loetmichel> no thread left ;-)
[15:08:36] <Jymmm> http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14000192-one_aluminum_flexible_coupler_for_stepper_motor_1in_x_075in.html
[15:09:05] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: do you happen to hold some stock of suntekstore?
[15:09:40] <Loetmichel> you are advertizing them even AFTER i said i wont pay anything for this mill
[15:10:09] <Jymmm> your gonna pay, be it money or time.
[15:10:12] <Loetmichel> and if anything nedded i would buy a 3 or 4 channel TB6560 board from china
[15:10:20] <Loetmichel> i prefer time
[15:11:02] <MattyMatt> get the bare chips and wire them up properly. the circuit on these 4 axis boards sucks
[15:11:09] <Loetmichel> if i would want to pay money i simply would have bought a off the shelf mill for the co-worker
[15:11:11] <MattyMatt> I still bought a 2nd tho :)
[15:11:52] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: i am though 4 of these chips already
[15:12:39] <Loetmichel> through
[15:14:29] <MattyMatt> all 8 of mine are still alive. never been over 12V tho
[15:16:18] <MattyMatt> I'll be bypassing the optos on the step & dir lines soon. they are so slow they make 1/16 unusable
[15:16:42] <djdelorie> switch to digital isolators
[15:17:35] <MattyMatt> I'm not bothered, it's only an AT parport header from arduino to board, I'll just rely on the 74hc14 input buffers
[15:18:25] <MattyMatt> ah my mill runs through a cable, but I found that PC at the dump
[15:19:32] <MattyMatt> so nothing worth spending on to protect involved
[15:20:07] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: btw: that is the look of such a board when you accidentally invert the power supply (+-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12554
[15:20:28] <MattyMatt> the board has optos, with the buffers before them, powered from 5V derived from Vmot :p
[15:21:15] <MattyMatt> and the gnd is shared, so the optos do precisely nothing worthwhile
[15:21:20] <djdelorie> so, they connected both sides of the optos together? dumb
[15:21:51] <Connor> 18 Gauge shielded stranded good for up around 5-6 amps 48v ?
[15:22:03] <djdelorie> before or after the insulation melts?
[15:22:53] <MattyMatt> Loetmichel, http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/4276-4-Axis-TB6560-CNC-Driver-For-NEMA17-23-34-Motor-3A-on-Ebay-update
[15:23:14] <MattyMatt> so...yes :)
[15:23:46] <Connor> djdelorie: I hope before the insulation melts.. It's for stepper motor wires..
[15:23:46] <Loetmichel> Connor: 6A through 18AWG is bold but diable if the cable is not TO long and can radiate enough heat
[15:24:00] <djdelorie> here's a generic guide: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
[15:24:18] <Connor> Yea.. Looking at that.
[15:24:41] <Loetmichel> doable
[15:24:52] <djdelorie> most of the time, wire current ratings depend on the *insulation*, not the conductor
[15:25:14] <archivist> and the cooling
[15:26:31] <djdelorie> although voltage drop is often a concern in power handling, even if the wire can handle it
[15:26:47] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: why that?
[15:26:53] <Loetmichel> temperature?
[15:27:22] <djdelorie> 20ft of 80ga (10ftx2) will drop 1.5 volts at 6 amps, that reduces power available at the other end. *especially* with low voltage high current cases, like steppers
[15:27:48] <Loetmichel> that a wire handles much more ampres if you allow it to be red hot is granted, but a AWG18 shouldnt get very hot @ 6A
[15:28:06] <Connor> It's security Alarm wire. PVC insulation.
[15:28:13] <Loetmichel> not even if it is a 10 wire cable
[15:28:30] <djdelorie> for woodshop power tools, it's usually recommended to use the next bigger size wire than you'd expect, just to make you get all the power to the tool that you can
[15:28:44] <archivist> that is a bit thin for stepper currents
[15:29:00] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: at 48 Volts 1,5V are not so much loss
[15:29:11] <djdelorie> also, the high resistance of thin wire will slow down the signals more (RC filter)
[15:29:34] <Loetmichel> NOW you are making things up
[15:29:55] <djdelorie> Loetmichel: you're talking to someone who uses 18ga control wire for my motor supplies, 120V 8A, but the distance is short ;-)
[15:30:12] <Loetmichel> to measure the RC filter effect on a 18AWG loaded with 6A you have to count the electrons one by one
[15:30:29] <djdelorie> Loetmichel: I'm not making it up, although the effects are normally to small to matter
[15:30:48] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: i am alectronican and KNOW the formulas
[15:31:16] <Loetmichel> by making up i meant: that is a TOTAL neglible effect at this values given
[15:31:17] <archivist> the effect is there its just small
[15:31:47] <Loetmichel> archivist: to small to measure
[15:31:54] <Loetmichel> at THIS numbers
[15:32:12] <Loetmichel> if any the resistance of the cable will support the stepper drivers to be cooler
[15:37:19] <Connor> okay, so, what size/type wire do you all use on larger stepper motors ?
[15:37:40] <djdelorie> except that the sensors on my furnace use 18ga wire, and I *do* have to account for the RC stuff or they don't work right.
[15:38:06] <djdelorie> if you're microstepping over 18ga long enough, and your PWM is fast enough, it might matter a tiny bit.
[15:38:46] <djdelorie> or the RC will just smooth out the pulse
[15:40:09] <djdelorie> hmmm... actually RLC if you include the winding inductance
[15:40:30] <archivist> alarm wire is also not flexible so will break
[15:40:33] <MattyMatt> if you're microstepping, it's not a pulse it's a sine wave
[15:40:48] <djdelorie> MattyMatt: are you sure about that?
[15:40:59] <MattyMatt> oh yeah chopping :)
[15:41:06] <archivist> the current control is still a pulse
[15:41:11] <MattyMatt> forgot that detail
[15:42:37] <djdelorie> archivist: if it's anything like my motors, the current in the wire is a sine-like smoothness, despite the voltage being PWM chopped.
[15:42:58] <Loetmichel> HARHAR
[15:43:11] <Loetmichel> markus again
[15:44:44] <Loetmichel> maybe i should call him and tell him is BNC is going amok again ;-)
[15:48:21] <MattyMatt> so the ideal setup would have the drivers close to the motors, with the control signals by optic fibre?
[15:48:43] <djdelorie> that would be pretty sweet, actually
[15:49:14] <Connor> Looks like people are using 18gauge stranded shielded for the 570oz-in steppers just fine.
[15:49:27] <djdelorie> drivers right at the motor (or *on* the motor), one fiberoptic link for step/direction pulses (somehow)
[15:49:51] <MattyMatt> uart
[15:49:59] <MattyMatt> that'll get you 8 into 1
[15:50:49] <djdelorie> or ethernet :-) but even just pulse width signalling would be sufficient - duty cycle < 50% is step-fwd, duty cycle > 50% is step-rev etc
[15:50:52] <Loetmichel> [22:39] <djdelorie> that would be pretty sweet, actually <- just texted him, its 22:40 over here, better not call :-)
[15:51:26] <djdelorie> er, it's not 22:40 over here, but don't call me anyway...
[15:52:02] <Loetmichel> [22:35] <Loetmichel> maybe i should call him and tell him is BNC is going amok again ;-)
[15:52:34] <djdelorie> although the phone did ring as soon as I typed that in !
[15:52:36] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry, you didnt talked to me.
[15:53:01] <Connor> OMG, Someone do something about MarkusBec Ugg..
[15:54:24] <Loetmichel> Connor: i did already
[15:54:33] <Loetmichel> he lives not far from here
[15:54:54] <MattyMatt> xchat2 can't ignore one person's join/leave messages. I know I've tried
[15:55:11] <JT-Shop> Xchat can
[15:55:14] <MattyMatt> there's a bouncing lurker on #reprap
[15:56:51] <MattyMatt> I'm not keeping logs atm. 64GB SSD only
[15:58:23] <MattyMatt> at the price of hdd these days it was a straight choice of 1TB or 64GB
[15:59:03] <ssi> hrm
[16:02:06] -!- MarkusBec was kicked from #linuxcnc by cradek!~chris@emc/board-of-directors/cradek [MarkusBec]
[16:02:50] <Loetmichel> cradek: you can use the whole IP
[16:02:56] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:02:59] <Loetmichel> thats his server, it stays the same
[16:03:11] <Connor> ROFL. I think he finialy stabilized..
[16:04:18] <cradek> oh really? oops
[16:05:03] <Connor> yea, He was cycling about every 2-4 seconds.. then connected and was connected for a minute or two before you band him.
[16:10:01] <JT-Shop> must be on satellite
[16:12:50] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop_ no, its his BNC on his server going amok
[16:12:58] <Loetmichel> it does that occasionally
[16:15:49] <ssi> cradek: is your varispeed completely disabled?
[16:17:29] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel, I'm glad I have show join/leave turned off in xchat
[16:19:33] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[16:30:17] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, sometimes that's handy to have though
[16:30:30] <Tom_itx> i don't log them
[16:32:44] <JT-Shop> yo Tom_itx what's handy
[16:34:21] <Tom_itx> the joins and parts
[16:34:31] <Tom_itx> so you don't end up talking to yourself
[16:34:41] <skunkworks> did you hear that?
[16:36:24] <JT-Shop> LOL
[16:36:54] <JT-Shop> I always talk to myself, no one else can understand me
[16:37:51] <Tom_itx> are digital stepper drivers better than the standard ones?
[16:38:55] <JT-Shop> what is a standard one?
[16:39:03] <Tom_itx> i'm looking at those chinese digital oes from kelinginc
[16:39:32] <JT-Shop> I only look at G203v's when I want to drive a stepper
[16:39:54] <JT-Shop> or G251's if the current is low enough
[16:40:31] <ries> Tom_itx: I believe some Mechmate users do have good experience with these drivers
[16:41:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriverDigital.html
[16:41:28] <Tom_itx> that's what i'm looking at
[16:41:40] <Tom_itx> opposed to the gecko or the other chinese ones
[16:44:11] <JT-Shop> you can't group gekco with the chinese ones that's just a terrible comparison
[16:45:02] <JT-Shop> gecko made in USA and Frank stands behind them... I thought I broke one once and he sent me another one no questions asked
[16:45:52] <Tom_itx> i've heard good with gecko but i've also heard a couple on here that didn't care for them
[16:48:42] <ries> JT-Shop: The problem is if you life in a other country. Then it's cheaper to buy a couple of the cheap drivers rather then the Gecko's. Because to other countries Gecko doesn't pay for the transport costs
[16:49:10] <ries> I have the 203V's myself and very happy with them...
[16:52:37] <JT-Shop> ries, yes unless there is a distributor in your country the cost is very high
[16:52:57] * JT-Shop thinks is on the fly speel checkker is not workingt
[16:53:30] <ries> I am in Ecuador… unless they created a distributor…. cost was give or take 75USD to get them here, and 100 something to get them imported.
[16:54:01] <ries> my problem with spell checkers is that they work correctly, I just type in the wrong english words :D
[16:54:04] <JT-Shop> plus the cost of the items? ouch
[16:54:11] <JT-Shop> LOL
[16:54:13] <ries> yes...
[16:54:32] <ries> everything is like +25-50% to get something imported
[16:55:53] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, do the 203v's come with heatsinks?
[16:55:59] <JT-Shop> no
[16:56:09] <Tom_itx> but they need them right?
[16:56:28] <JT-Shop> only if your current set resistor is high enough
[16:56:41] <Tom_itx> ~4A?
[16:57:08] <ries> Tom_itx: I have them mounted (app 5) on a strip of alu with a fan below it
[16:57:08] <JT-Shop> you may not need them at that level you would have to check the manual
[16:57:17] <ries> they only get mildly warm
[16:57:55] <JT-Shop> yea a strip of aluminum would do a lot to draw the heat off... naturally I went overboard when I installed mine http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma007.jpg
[16:58:11] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma005.jpg
[16:58:33] <JT-Shop> a bit insane but it made me happy at the time
[16:58:34] <Tom_itx> naturally :)
[16:58:43] <Tom_itx> did you make them?
[16:58:54] <JT-Shop> CPU heat sinks and fans
[16:58:58] <JT-Shop> from old computers
[16:59:35] <ries> I just have a simple 110V fan below it… then made sure the enclosure's air get's filtered
[16:59:53] <JT-Shop> ries: do you get much trouble from your neighbors to the north?
[17:00:20] <Tom_itx> ries what do you use for a filter?
[17:00:29] <Tom_itx> standard furnace filter?
[17:00:46] <ries> Tom_itx: this is for simple woodworking, I took a fairly simple cloth
[17:00:56] <ries> JT-Shop: Hmmm to the north??
[17:01:05] <JT-Shop> Colombia
[17:01:14] <ries> Nhaaa, not at all
[17:01:23] <JT-Shop> in the factorys they have some kind of filter cloth that they cut to fit
[17:01:25] <ries> I am 20Km to the east of Quito...
[17:01:57] <JT-Shop> just looking on the map to refresh my memory where you are
[17:02:00] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, yes we had a large filter table for doing debur / sanding work
[17:02:12] <Tom_itx> huge filters under it
[17:02:56] <jdhnc> http://tinyurl.com/co5n4f7 How do you find a servo motor to match that drive?
[17:02:59] <ries> http://maps.google.com/?ll=-0.333365,-78.449936&spn=0.153978,0.190544&t=m&z=13
[17:04:58] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: they use something like this http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-air-filters/=h1sta9
[17:05:46] <Tom_itx> yeah
[17:06:43] <JT-Shop> ries: this is me http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=ll
[17:06:58] <ries> JT-Shop: close enough :D
[17:07:10] <ries> I am working on getting a H1 visa to there...
[17:07:29] <ries> visum...
[17:07:35] <jdhnc> isn't an H1B close to slavery?
[17:11:25] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop how big is the supply in the bottom of that box?
[17:11:48] <Tom_itx> and what steppers are you driving with that setup?
[17:13:26] <JT-Shop> nema 23 steppers from AutomationDirect.com Antek power supply 60v I forget the wattage but it is heavy
[17:13:47] <JT-Shop> let me see if I can find them
[17:14:30] <JT-Shop> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motion_Control/Stepper_Systems/Motors_-z-_Cables/STP-MTR-23079
[17:15:47] <JT-Shop> I think it is this one but the photo is wrong http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=243
[17:17:13] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H276-30-8B.pdf
[17:17:19] <Tom_itx> that's what i'll be driving
[17:17:21] <JT-Shop> might be this one http://www.antekinc.com/pdf/PS-8N56R.pdf
[17:17:24] <Tom_itx> look similar to yours
[17:17:30] <Tom_itx> practically the same price
[17:17:38] <Tom_itx> i have the supply
[17:17:45] <Tom_itx> needs to be built though
[17:18:26] <JT-Shop> I'd get the 5v + 24v if I was to do it over again
[17:18:36] <Tom_itx> 24v?
[17:18:45] <JT-Shop> for field I/O
[17:18:45] <Tom_itx> for the steppers?
[17:18:59] <JT-Shop> 56v for steppers
[17:19:13] <Tom_itx> mine will be ~45v
[17:19:30] <Tom_itx> about 18A
[17:19:39] <JT-Shop> yea, I did all the calculations using the info on the wiki for mine
[17:19:50] <Tom_itx> these are surplus
[17:20:14] <Tom_itx> what sort of feedrates do you get with those?
[17:20:15] <ssi> I need to find some servo motors now for my g0704
[17:20:16] <r00t4rd3d> anyone use a TB6560?
[17:20:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what you using for a 56v PS ?
[17:20:29] <JT-Shop> plasma cutter
[17:20:29] <Tom_itx> http://www.antekinc.com/pdf/PS-8N56R.pdf
[17:20:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: No, I mean what you using to build a 56v PS ?
[17:21:05] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i just linked it
[17:21:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: switching ps? torriod?
[17:21:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: tha'ts a pdf
[17:21:24] <JT-Shop> I purchased it from Antek
[17:22:25] * JT-Shop puts on his prep cook apron and goes inside
[17:29:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: weirdest website I've ever seen, EVERYING is PDF's!
[17:34:20] <JT-Shop> that came out nice
[17:34:47] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what sort of feedrates do you get with that setup?
[17:35:55] <JT-Shop> 500IPM
[17:36:04] <JT-Shop> no side loads mind you
[17:36:33] <Tom_itx> right
[17:36:39] <JT-Shop> I think it will go faster but the framework shakes with direction reversal above that
[17:36:44] <Tom_itx> what's the leadscrew pitch?
[17:36:59] <JT-Shop> no leadscrews on X and Y
[17:38:00] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma009.jpg
[17:43:56] <JT-Shop> spell checker installed check
[17:54:59] <Dave911> What is a good way to alter the look of Glade generates screens - like the one for Touchy and Gscreen? The theme setup in Ubuntu seems to suck badly. I can't get anything that looks industrial.
[17:55:18] <Dave911> "Glade generated"
[17:58:03] <Dave911> Chris M mentioned that a gtkrc file could be written to make things look better for Touchy..(or any other glade generated screen, I suppose?) . has anyone done that?
[18:06:01] <JT-Shop> sounds neat but I've not ventured into those waters
[18:07:27] <Dave911> I just found this... a how to.. perhaps I need to hack an existing theme to clean things up a bit. Find one that is close and then go to it. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes
[18:09:18] <Dave911> The Glade stuff is neat. But like everything it has a learning curve.
[18:09:31] <pfred1> ain't that the truth
[18:10:04] * pfred1 is still learning about gcc
[18:10:11] <djdelorie> me too
[18:10:20] <pfred1> heh
[18:10:36] <pfred1> I want to figure out how to change my march and targets
[18:10:53] <djdelorie> i.e. a cross compiler, or just different default options?
[18:11:13] <pfred1> different defaults for local builds
[18:11:33] <pfred1> everything i look up about is about cross compiling
[18:11:33] <djdelorie> usually you just override CFLAGS...
[18:12:03] <pfred1> well when I do gcc -v it has built in configure parameters I'd like to change
[18:12:22] <djdelorie> that part is easy, just build your own gcc and specify the parameters you want :-)
[18:12:38] <pfred1> well i have built gcc before
[18:13:01] <pfred1> but it wasn't easy then
[18:13:23] * pfred1 wanted to see KDE 0.14 on Slackware 3.4
[18:13:24] <djdelorie> after the first couple thousand builds, it starts getting easier...
[18:13:51] <pfred1> and damned if i was gonna run that RedHat stuff back then!
[18:14:28] <pfred1> messing with your libc is an excellent way to fry your system
[18:15:23] <pfred1> I began to see the value in a static shell
[18:18:51] <djdelorie> chroots
[18:19:21] <pfred1> I just got really good at reinstalling :)
[18:22:05] <pfred1> I still have my notes file someplace for how i managed to pull it off eventually all 3 pages of it
[18:36:18] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vppbdf-qtGU << zztop la grange
[18:47:41] <JT-Shop> nice
[18:48:14] * pfred1 saw ZZ Top live once
[18:48:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: What's the MAX height of the PS? It's the only dimension theyr dont give
[18:49:12] <JT-Shop> I saw 3 dimensions one must be height and it is the lesser of the threee
[18:49:24] <Jymmm> in the pdf?
[18:49:28] <JT-Shop> mine is safely tucked away inside the computer case
[18:49:30] <JT-Shop> yea
[18:49:39] <JT-Shop> which one
[18:49:45] <Jymmm> I see only two in blue
[18:50:12] <JT-Shop> I like the comment on this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFl0nlHaWa4&feature=related
[18:50:14] <Tecan> (nFl0nlHaWa4) "Lynyrd Skynyrd - Simple Man" by "jbryant789" is "Music" - Length: 0:05:55
[18:50:32] <Jymmm> the third is the mounting notch spacing
[18:50:42] <JT-Shop> I'm 17, and on behalf of my generation, I would like to apologize for the shitty music that is produced today.
[18:50:53] <JT-Shop> which link
[18:51:23] <Jymmm> the one Tom_itx gave above
[18:51:48] <JT-Shop> iirc he gave several links
[18:51:56] <pfred1> artists or younger members of generations don't actually produce any music
[18:51:59] <JT-Shop> which one are you looking at
[18:52:05] <Jymmm> http://www.antekinc.com/pdf/PS-8N56R.pdf
[18:52:24] <pfred1> old bald guys with fat cigars produce music
[18:52:34] <Tom_itx> Jymmm that's a pdf
[18:52:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: that's what you gave
[18:53:03] <Tom_itx> that's what JT gave
[18:53:29] <JT-Shop> http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=278
[18:53:55] <JT-Shop> 3.7" tallllll
[18:54:05] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you're not 17 :) and zztop and skynard are cool
[18:54:11] <JT-Shop> snf gtrrkinh hrsby
[18:54:25] <Tom_itx> spell checker?
[18:54:25] <JT-Shop> that is the comment on the vid
[18:54:33] <JT-Shop> seems to be working
[18:54:36] <Tom_itx> i failed to click
[18:54:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: did you get the 56,24,5 ?
[18:55:02] <JT-Shop> no, but I should have
[18:55:05] <djdelorie> your spell checker is working fine. It checked your spelling. It knew it was wrong, but decided it would be funnier to let you post it anyway.
[18:55:25] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:55:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah, be nice for controls/relays
[18:55:34] * pfred1 needs a speel checker
[18:55:37] <JT-Shop> that was from the movie Blazing Saddles
[18:55:50] <JT-Shop> pfred1: it is freebird
[18:56:25] * JT-Shop goes back to listening to Rush
[18:56:39] <JT-Shop> when Gabby Johnson was talking
[18:56:45] <pfred1> JT-Shop someone dared me once to listen to Freebird 10 times in a row but after the 7th time I had to go do something
[18:56:54] <JT-Shop> you know Howards brother
[18:57:27] <JT-Shop> it use to play at 5pm everyday on a Baton Rouge radio station...
[18:57:48] <JT-Shop> pfred1: not enough beer then
[18:57:57] <pfred1> yeah because the drive time DJ was always late to work
[18:58:14] <djdelorie> I what?
[18:58:30] <pfred1> djdelorie Disc Jockey not DJ
[18:58:34] <Jymmm> mini flood coming...
[18:58:38] <djdelorie> ah, music joke. nevermind.
[18:58:48] <Jymmm> https://gist.github.com/b8712a0934eabfbb6e72
[18:59:29] <pfred1> I guess they should be called CJs today
[18:59:56] <djdelorie> I'd say "button jockeys" but that abbreviates... poorly
[19:00:11] <pfred1> well last i heard they use tape carts
[19:00:20] <pfred1> I guess now it is all computerized
[19:01:16] <JT-Shop> yep keyboard and computer now
[19:01:17] <Tom_itx> mp3
[19:01:24] <djdelorie> bad computer poetry: http://poetry.about.com/od/poetryplay/l/blwakawaka.htm
[19:01:26] <JT-Shop> well the axle strap came out nice
[19:02:54] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what current setting do you have those 302v's set for?
[19:03:13] <JT-Shop> I don't have 302v's :P
[19:03:22] <Tom_itx> well the geckos
[19:03:38] <JT-Shop> I'd have to dig into the case to see what I picked and it is buried well
[19:05:41] <JT-Shop> iirc it was not the max...
[19:06:06] <JT-Shop> a bit more filler weld and clean up and an axle strap http://imagebin.org/207507
[19:08:04] <pfred1> I need argon
[19:08:27] <pfred1> though because I'm out I have been getting a lot better at stick welding
[19:08:51] <Tom_itx> for aluminum?
[19:08:56] <pfred1> the TIG is kinda cheating ...
[19:09:06] <pfred1> you can stick weld aluminum
[19:09:10] <Tom_itx> what else do you use argon on?
[19:09:14] <Tom_itx> stainless?
[19:09:15] <pfred1> steel
[19:09:20] <Tom_itx> no mix?
[19:09:29] <pfred1> nah I've run mixes I prefer straight
[19:09:33] <Tom_itx> i use a tri mix
[19:09:41] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/207508
[19:09:51] <pfred1> I've used 25/75
[19:10:09] <pfred1> run straight CO2 too
[19:10:26] <Tom_itx> does that work as well as the mix?
[19:10:37] <Tom_itx> i've never tried CO2
[19:10:41] <pfred1> if I thought something worked better I'd use it
[19:11:00] <pfred1> argon is the snizzle as far as I'm concerned
[19:14:06] <JT-Shop> some mig welders do better on straight C02, my suitcase one is very little spatter on C02 my main one won't weld worth a crap with C02
[19:14:40] <pfred1> I only have a little 120V MIG that i use if I really don't care
[19:14:55] <pfred1> MIG does inside corners good for me too
[19:19:06] <pfred1> I decided a long time ago that if I'm running someone over I don't really care what their opinion of my welding is :) http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3274/p1010014oz.jpg
[19:20:32] <pfred1> if you think that looks bad then you didn't see the before picture http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5476/p7120003e.jpg
[19:22:49] <pfred1> busting that shackle was rough!
[19:30:16] <JT-Shop> a bit of rust beetles at work I see
[19:30:55] <pfred1> yeah that truck keeps on wanting to return to the earth
[19:31:28] <JT-Shop> sounds like Jerry Jeff Walkers pickup truck
[19:32:20] <pfred1> you know it is bad when you have to sawsall out a piece of the frame http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3834/t2005.jpg
[19:32:53] <pfred1> http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1605/t5003.jpg
[19:33:34] <JT-Shop> I bent the frame on my 81' C10 and went to a junk yard and got another one
[19:33:45] <JT-Shop> that was fun but not that much fun
[19:34:17] <Thadius> hello all
[19:34:22] <pfred1> hi
[19:34:44] <Thadius> anyone use vacuum hold down for their work area?
[19:34:52] * JT-Shop smells fresh bread
[19:35:20] <pfred1> JT-Shop when I got done the truck still tracked straight
[19:35:28] <pfred1> which impressed me
[19:51:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BIT2s2MiL.jpg
[19:51:31] <r00t4rd3d> someone cut me the parts for that ? :D
[19:52:26] <Jymmm> Why? Ii already have one and with abba rails and thompson baillscrews
[19:52:55] <r00t4rd3d> so I can have one....
[19:53:09] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: You can have mine if you like
[19:53:17] <djdelorie> r00t3rd3d: if you cut it out of wood, you get http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2574.html
[19:53:27] <r00t4rd3d> really?
[19:53:45] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Sure, just pay processing and handling
[19:53:56] <pfred1> djdelorie looking good
[19:54:20] <r00t4rd3d> and how much is that gonna be?
[19:55:24] <djdelorie> pfred1: thanks, but it's been at that "looking good" stage for a while. I've been playing with it, trying to cut useful things. and learning the cad/cam software
[19:55:39] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: $4000 USD But wait, there's more... Act now and you'll also get...
[19:55:44] <r00t4rd3d> Im building mine out of wood too
[19:56:04] <pfred1> djdelorie I got sidetracked I just have my Z axis done
[19:56:44] <djdelorie> I even cut something yesterday, but need to fiddle with the cam: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/bldc-bracket-1.html
[19:57:09] <djdelorie> not much you can do with just a Z axis...
[19:57:25] <pfred1> I can make it go back and forth
[19:57:53] * pfred1 could use it as a CNC router lift!
[19:58:10] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: That also includes a 4x4x3 gorilla base plus a 4x4x4 dust proof enclosure with hinged doors and dust collector ports, and enough components to build two automated controllers, 18K-25K RPM 2.25HP spindle, set of tooling, and much much more!
[19:58:11] <djdelorie> or a computerized hammer
[19:58:23] <pfred1> it doesn't go back and forth that well
[19:58:57] <pfred1> djdelorie what kind of a bit did you use a spiral up cut?
[19:59:30] <djdelorie> it's a 1/8 PCB router bit, from a "random pcb cnc drills" collection
[19:59:32] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: BTW, I'm not kidding.
[19:59:57] <pfred1> djdelorie then this is smaller than I think it is
[20:00:08] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: And it really is a K2-CNC machine.
[20:00:10] <djdelorie> the wooden bracket? It's 4.8 x 3.1 inches
[20:00:44] <djdelorie> it replaces the five individual stand-offs behind the bldc motor control boards, since they keep falling out when I remove the boards
[20:01:30] <pfred1> I came up with a sort of a rail system to hold my boards
[20:01:38] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2564.html
[20:02:14] <Tom_itx> what boards are those?
[20:02:41] <djdelorie> motor controllers: http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[20:02:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Pine
[20:02:57] <pfred1> Jymmm :)
[20:03:06] <djdelorie> actually, birch, but close :-)
[20:03:08] <pfred1> looks like southern yellow pine to me
[20:03:26] <djdelorie> the cnc machine is mostly oak plywood, except for the sacrificial top, which is currently junky pine
[20:03:47] <pfred1> not a big MDF fan I take it?
[20:03:54] <djdelorie> and the board the electronics are screwed to, I guess. I used whatever was handy :-)
[20:04:10] <Jymmm> djdelorie: you wasted 12" wide birch for a backboard?!
[20:04:41] <djdelorie> the milled mounting bracket was 1/4" birch plywood. The 1x12 the purple boards are bolted to is junky pine
[20:04:56] <djdelorie> cost $0;75
[20:05:01] <djdelorie> $0.75
[20:05:41] <pfred1> now i have to ask how did you determine the angles you mounted your drivers at?
[20:06:21] <pfred1> most folks would have put them straight up and down I'd imagine
[20:06:29] <pfred1> waaay outside the box
[20:06:29] <djdelorie> I kinda just put them down and fiddled with them until it looked like I could plug cables in on all four sides
[20:06:36] <djdelorie> I'm thinking outside the box... inside my box ?
[20:06:52] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2600.html
[20:06:57] <pfred1> you think different there is no doubt about that
[20:07:01] <djdelorie> that's the fun part!
[20:08:01] <ssi> SWEETN
[20:08:01] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290694012369&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:3160#ht_500wt_1413
[20:08:10] <pfred1> I tried using blender the other day I got nowhere with it
[20:08:49] <pfred1> djdelorie oh this is something I wanted to ask you what software do you use for making PCB masks?
[20:08:50] <Jymmm> Pretty impressive... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldawsDDuoPo&feature=share
[20:08:51] <Tecan> (ldawsDDuoPo) "Disco Talks to Daddy" by "MsJumpinJude" is "Animals" - Length: 0:04:00
[20:09:02] <djdelorie> masks?
[20:09:08] <pfred1> the board art
[20:09:24] <djdelorie> gEDA/PCB
[20:09:32] <pfred1> you use gEDA?
[20:09:39] <djdelorie> yes
[20:09:47] <djdelorie> I'm the lead PCB maintainer
[20:09:48] <pfred1> wow I'll have to give it another go
[20:10:13] <pfred1> last time I tried it it didn't seem ready for prime time yet pcb was always nice though
[20:10:56] <djdelorie> it has a steep learning curve, but the capabilities don't plateau quickly either
[20:11:13] <pfred1> if you're making your boards with it apparently not
[20:11:29] <pfred1> I use eagle
[20:11:49] <pfred1> and i consider the 3x5 board size limit of the free trial a feature
[20:11:59] <djdelorie> first footprint I pulled out of eagle's library was wrong. A DB-25 connector. You'd think they'd get that right. And my first board was too big for the "free" version
[20:12:00] <pfred1> it forces me to make better boards :)
[20:12:38] <pfred1> you'd be surprised what you can cram into 3x5 if you have to
[20:14:48] <djdelorie> you can't cram four mounting holes for a pre-existing enclosure
[20:14:49] <pfred1> I never thought I'd get this in there but i managed http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3405/hsoptofp.png
[20:15:28] <ssi> I found a mill I want
[20:15:30] <ssi> but it's in canada :(
[20:15:42] <pfred1> ssi yeah I hate Canada too
[20:15:48] <ssi> :D
[20:16:25] <Dave911> Getting stuff from Canada to the US is risky..
[20:16:35] <ssi> yeah, thats why the frowny face
[20:16:39] <ssi> that and it's effing far away
[20:16:40] <pfred1> djdelorie before I redesigned it I did some editing with 2 circuits I made in eagle and the gimp
[20:17:10] <Dave911> Canada ... just across the lake.. :-)
[20:17:44] <pfred1> djdelorie http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6325/stitched.png
[20:18:03] <r00t4rd3d> I can hit canada with a rock from my house
[20:18:16] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d throw something that explodes!
[20:18:24] <Tom_itx> ick it's thru hole :)
[20:18:36] <Dave911> I can see it from my front porch... so that makes me an expert in International relations.. ;-)
[20:18:41] <djdelorie> pfred1: http://www.delorie.com/electronics/rx/os-board.html
[20:18:42] <ssi> I can see it from my chair
[20:18:44] <ssi> on google maps
[20:18:53] <pfred1> Tom_itx how else am I going to attach wires to it?
[20:19:01] <Dave911> ssi: Ok.. you win!
[20:19:12] <ssi> :D
[20:19:46] <pfred1> djdelorie do you do that oven reflow soldering stuff?
[20:21:02] <pfred1> djdelorie and when is your raspberry pi supposed to show up?
[20:23:06] <djdelorie> hotplate, and august. http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2553.html
[20:23:55] <pfred1> yeah see I knew you'd be in on it
[20:24:30] <pfred1> which one did you get?
[20:24:44] <djdelorie> there's only one option at the moment. Or did you mean hotplate?
[20:24:44] <pfred1> well they only made rev2 right?
[20:24:53] <djdelorie> yeah, no A boards yet
[20:24:53] <Dave911> I think I will try and hack a gtkrc file if I can get everything functional.. I found a tutorial on configuring that file. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes
[20:25:00] <pfred1> yeah they made the network one
[20:25:23] <Dave911> Whoops sorry wrong one ...
[20:25:30] <pfred1> it sure seems to me like they can sell a lot of them they have like 2 million preorders or something
[20:25:44] <ssi> I want 2 million preorders!
[20:25:49] <ssi> I need to find something to make with my hnc
[20:25:59] <djdelorie> and, as a coincidence, the operating system they're running on it, I did the initial bootstrap for last summer :-)
[20:26:04] <djdelorie> (just not on the Pi)
[20:26:04] <pfred1> sell raspberry pis
[20:26:11] <Tom_itx> djdelorie, are those laen's boards?
[20:26:11] <ssi> raspberry pss
[20:26:12] <ssi> piss
[20:26:19] <djdelorie> the purple ones are, yes.
[20:26:51] <Tom_itx> well of course
[20:26:55] <Tom_itx> he wouldn't have any other color :)
[20:27:05] <djdelorie> He had blue once, I got one of those. Very pretty
[20:27:09] <Tom_itx> i know
[20:27:15] <Tom_itx> when he first started
[20:27:26] <Tom_itx> i have a few of those
[20:27:40] <Tom_itx> and some icky 'purple' ones when he was fine tuning the color
[20:27:54] <djdelorie> no, those were a problem at the fab, they didn't have the right inks that week
[20:28:00] <Dave911> Has anyone actually received a Raspberry Pi ??
[20:28:10] <pfred1> not yet
[20:28:33] <ssi> what do you guys intend to do with them?
[20:28:33] <pfred1> they had some kind of a connector snafu
[20:28:33] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/tmp/blue_purple.jpg
[20:28:38] <Dave911> Apparently the order volume has been huge
[20:28:54] <Tom_itx> djdelorie, these are more brown than purple: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32U4_3.jpg
[20:29:33] <Thetawaves> what controller is that blue_purple.jpg?
[20:30:11] <Dave911> Depends on what it can do.. looks like it could be a lot of things..
[20:30:27] <djdelorie> the blue one is the RX/62T chip I used in the bldc controller board, the purple one is a programming pod
[20:31:06] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/rx/rx62t-80-breakout.html
[20:31:17] <Tom_itx> are you from that area?
[20:31:54] <Thetawaves> what compiler do you use for that chip?
[20:31:55] <djdelorie> gcc
[20:32:58] <pfred1> if jeff goldblum had a linux PC with gcc on it I'd have almost believed the scene in independence day where he infected the mothership with a virus
[20:33:16] <Thetawaves> i didn't know gcc did rx
[20:33:42] <djdelorie> gcc does a LOT of chips
[20:33:49] <Thetawaves> so is there a avrlibc equivalent?
[20:34:05] <djdelorie> there's an avr-gcc at least
[20:34:07] <pfred1> linux supports avr
[20:34:41] <pfred1> or was it avr that supported linux I forget
[20:35:02] <djdelorie> I even just did a port to the RL78, which is a modern chip based on the Z80 architecture
[20:35:32] <Thetawaves> what libc do you use with this chip?
[20:35:48] <djdelorie> newlib
[20:37:07] <r00t4rd3d> is emc better then mach3?
[20:37:24] <djdelorie> on this channel? NO! ;-)
[20:37:27] <Tom_itx> what a silly question
[20:37:44] <pfred1> the real question is mach abandonware at this point
[20:37:59] <djdelorie> LinuxCNC is better than mach3 though :-)
[20:38:21] <pfred1> mach doesn't support anything past XP does it?
[20:39:20] <ssi> it's expensive abandonware if so :P
[20:39:28] * ssi owns a license for mach3 :P
[20:39:41] <pfred1> they seem to have been promising upgrades for a while now
[20:40:40] <r00t4rd3d> you can use mach3 for free though too cant you?
[20:40:55] <pfred1> the lead developer retired too
[20:40:59] <pfred1> 2000 line code limit or something
[20:41:11] <ssi> 500 line I think
[20:41:11] <djdelorie> home page says 500, but it does support Win7
[20:41:11] <pfred1> OK 500 then
[20:41:43] <pfred1> nice they got it going on win7 that breathes new life into it
[20:41:43] <r00t4rd3d> I take it linuxcnc has no limits?
[20:41:51] <pfred1> system RAM maybe disk space
[20:41:58] <Tom_itx> just hte size of your hdd
[20:41:58] <jdhnc> if it does, you can change them.
[20:42:46] * djdelorie wouldn't live long enough to run a job that fills his hdd with gcode
[20:43:05] <pfred1> you could run it 24/7
[20:43:33] <djdelorie> my server is 14 TB
[20:43:49] <pfred1> OK maybe you should have started a few years ago
[20:43:53] <r00t4rd3d> as a newbie what should I use? whats easier, mach3 or linuxcnc?
[20:44:14] <pfred1> from what I gather mach does seem to have an easier entry level
[20:44:16] <djdelorie> as a newbie, use linuxcnc - no limits and no cost
[20:44:24] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[20:44:26] <Tom_itx> and plenty of help
[20:44:30] <djdelorie> if it doesn't work for you, you can always spend money later.
[20:44:46] <r00t4rd3d> i downloaded mach3
[20:44:51] <r00t4rd3d> the full version :/
[20:45:11] <pfred1> just don't mind the chinese characters on the buttons
[20:45:17] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[20:45:34] <pfred1> that might make mach a bit harder to learn
[20:45:57] <djdelorie> and you'll have to buy a windows license for your cnc pc, and program macros in VB instead of perl/python/whatever
[20:46:18] <pfred1> yeah mach seems to die out a lot sooner than linuxcnc does
[20:46:43] <pfred1> like I don't think anyone seriously uses mach in a comercial industrial setting
[20:46:53] <djdelorie> also, your job will be interrupted every 15 minutes by Windows Update wanting to reboot your mill to install "updates"
[20:47:04] <pfred1> nah mach runs like a virus
[20:47:14] <djdelorie> every fifth job has "Haxxorz was here" engraved in the middle...
[20:47:15] <pfred1> windows is totally hamstrung while mach is running
[20:47:22] <jdhnc> I've read that most mach income comes from OEM's that sell it with their skins
[20:48:17] <Thetawaves> how many factories use linuxcnc?
[20:48:19] <pfred1> djdelorie there is a pdf floating around the original mach develper wrote that explains how mach works you'd probably enjoy it let me get the filename
[20:49:00] <pfred1> I just have to remember which machine it is on
[20:55:01] <pfred1> djdelorie search for a file named Mach3Mysteries.pdf
[20:56:20] <pfred1> poor google only has 9 returns of that obscure thing
[20:56:49] <djdelorie> by Art Fenerty ?
[20:56:55] <pfred1> yeah he is the original developer
[20:57:03] <djdelorie> got it
[20:57:18] <pfred1> you ought to get a few good laughs out of it
[21:04:34] <Tecan> shagadelic
[21:07:09] <pfred1> ya gotta love #linux 21:56 < sauvin> fartofagony, for one thing, your very *nick* is rather off-puttiung.
[21:25:13] <Tecan> c++ 4 life
[21:26:02] <pfred1> /* Welcome to Sun Microsystems, can I take your order please? */
[21:27:15] <r00t4rd3d> #linux is a cesspool.
[21:27:42] * pfred1 remembers OPN
[21:28:07] <Tecan> pfred you opensolaris ?
[21:28:21] <pfred1> no Linux
[21:28:47] <pfred1> didn't Sun go Linux?
[21:29:12] <pfred1> I thought I'd read something about that
[21:30:14] <r00t4rd3d> anyone use these:
[21:30:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/linear-carriage-with-abec-7-bearings-p-33.html?cPath=21
[21:30:27] <pfred1> I was looking for my favorite comment in the code and it seems to be gone now
[21:31:12] <pfred1> although pfred1@cash:/usr/src/linux$ grep -Ri fuck * | wc -l still returns 96 hits
[21:31:30] <Tecan> pfred1 you familiar with the emc source ?
[21:31:40] <pfred1> Tecan not really
[21:31:47] <pfred1> built the stuff once
[21:32:05] <Tecan> darn im trying to modify the cannon
[21:32:23] <pfred1> cradek is the resident expert I believe today
[21:35:40] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.etsy.com/listing/96827992/nintendo-controller-coffee-table
[21:36:34] <pfred1> man i hate gnome
[21:36:48] <r00t4rd3d> what do you prefer?
[21:36:51] <Tecan> the sourcecode is there
[21:36:58] <Tecan> gnome rocks
[21:37:24] <pfred1> then why isn't it giving me the option to set an image as desktop background from its file manager?
[21:38:48] <Tecan> there's a script for that
[21:39:16] <djdelorie> you're supposed to like the image they picked for you...
[21:40:00] <pfred1> it was no Dali
[21:40:29] * pfred1 set the melting clock ...
[21:46:15] <mozmck> pfred1: what version of gnome?
[21:47:33] <pfred1> 2.30.1
[21:47:49] <pfred1> least that is what help says
[21:47:51] <r00t4rd3d> what distro ?
[21:47:59] <pfred1> debian squeeze
[21:48:23] <mozmck> ok. I guess you have to right click on the desktop and change the background from there.
[21:48:45] <mozmck> Don't know on gnome3. wouldn't be surprised if you can't change it at all
[21:48:52] <pfred1> I need to put KDE 3.5.10 onto this system
[21:49:01] <r00t4rd3d> kde is garbage
[21:49:14] <pfred1> it does everything I need it to do
[21:49:36] <r00t4rd3d> too pretty
[21:53:11] <mozmck> I'm probably switching to xfce when I upgrade. Fast and has everything I need far as I can tell.
[21:53:39] <r00t4rd3d> too ugly
[21:54:09] <pfred1> I was using xfce it is a hack of fvwm
[21:54:36] <pfred1> my all time fave WM was WindowMaker but it is kind of abandonware today
[21:54:44] <mozmck> have you looked at the latest version? not any uglier than gnome.
[21:55:16] <pfred1> if fluxbox had some gui config applets I'd use it
[21:55:20] <mozmck> lxde looks pretty usable too but I haven't played with it much.
[21:55:39] <pfred1> but editing xml all the time isn't my idea of a good time
[21:55:47] <mozmck> no
[21:57:22] <pfred1> today I'm somewhere a bit past if it draws boxes on the screen it is enough WM for me
[21:58:04] <pfred1> I like desktop shortcuts for some things
[21:59:39] <pfred1> I also like a file manager that gives me my CWD in text I can copy and the ability to open a terminal at my present location too
[22:00:42] <pfred1> konquerer in 3.5 does all of that
[22:00:49] <r00t4rd3d> embed a terminal in your desktop
[22:01:06] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d maybe you can't read
[22:01:26] <r00t4rd3d> maybe I wasnt talking to you
[22:01:31] <pfred1> a terminal isn't a gui file manager
[22:01:45] <r00t4rd3d> sure it is
[22:02:05] <r00t4rd3d> you can see it so its graphical and it can manage files
[22:13:53] <Jymmm> pfred1: Hell, windows XP does that
[22:14:34] <pfred1> Jymmm you can paste text in windows to the dos box?
[22:14:42] <Jymmm> pfred1: it's called "CMD Here'
[22:14:49] <mozmck> one thing I always install is midnight commander - file manager for terminal
[22:15:05] <pfred1> I never got caught up with mc
[22:15:08] <Jymmm> pfred1: well, paste is right-click in a dos window
[22:15:27] <pfred1> yeah I hate how the paste buffer works in Windows
[22:15:29] <Jymmm> if youenable it in the prefs
[22:15:43] <mozmck> pfred1: look for the nautilus-terminal package
[22:16:12] <pfred1> mozmck I'm just going to switch WMs when I get around to installing what I want
[22:16:27] <mozmck> oh, and the nautilus-open-terminal package
[22:16:35] <Jymmm> pfred1: In OSX, you can drag a folder from the Finder (file mgr) to a shell and it'll paste the path for you
[22:16:50] <pfred1> at least gnome got that smelly foot off the desktop
[22:17:31] <mozmck> ok, but those will give you a way to open a terminal from the CWD in nautilus, and one embeds a dropdown terminal in the nautilus window that is pretty handy
[22:17:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: Yeah, like THAT's the most significant thing about gnome, wallpaper
[22:18:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldawsDDuoPo&feature=share
[22:18:58] <Tecan> (ldawsDDuoPo) "Disco Talks to Daddy" by "MsJumpinJude" is "Animals" - Length: 0:04:00
[22:19:05] <pfred1> why are there 2 bars in Gnome?
[22:19:20] <Jymmm> because they couldn't fit three?
[22:19:39] <pfred1> oh they could slap 4 in there aren't any on teh side
[22:20:00] <Jymmm> I think you can drag the bottom bar to the sides
[22:20:21] <Jymmm> or just auto-hide it
[22:21:41] <Tecan> pfred1 try cairo dock
[22:21:57] <Tecan> remove one of the bars add the window list widget to the top one
[22:26:15] <pfred1> To help you get started in deploying a modern PC today, download the Microsoft Deployment Toolkit. Download Free tool now.
[22:27:41] <Tecan> i hope it has python
[22:28:08] <Tecan> and apache
[22:28:57] <pfred1> Microsoft wants me to unleash my inner DJ with free headphones!
[22:29:37] <Tecan> lies
[22:33:55] <pfred1> no it's true! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8274/screenshotmhy.jpg
[22:37:24] <Tecan> your irc client is outdated
[22:37:28] <pfred1> I guess the M$ execs got tired of hearing noise out of the laptops of the peasants
[22:38:26] <pfred1> my IRC client is actually quite advanced
[22:38:29] <Tecan> a cool kinda oldschoolness to it
[22:38:41] <Tecan> you just like it because you can use it in ssh
[22:39:17] <pfred1> 朝鲜卫星准备工作全部完成
[22:39:46] <Tecan> ...
[22:39:57] <pfred1> no i like it because it works just like every IRC client I've used for the past 15 years
[22:40:21] <Tecan> its cool :)
[22:40:24] * pfred1 suffers from user inertia
[22:40:51] <pfred1> well I used bitchx back then I have this setup to work like BX did
[22:41:11] <pfred1> though this client does lack the /mfuck command ...
[22:42:57] <Tecan> http://www.opensbp.com/
[22:43:43] <pfred1> good luck to them
[22:44:12] <Tecan> was looking for gcode alternatives that might work with emc
[22:44:43] <pfred1> maybe there is a filter?
[22:46:11] <pfred1> I bet this girl I knew on EFnet could write a perl one liner that would convert it :)
[22:46:33] <pfred1> she had skillz
[22:50:31] * pfred1 wonders if he can catch Doomsday Preppers on demand ...
[22:53:08] <jdhnc> are you sure it was a she?
[22:54:15] <pfred1> jdhnc not 100% no I never met her in person
[23:00:21] <Jymmm> Tecan: why alternatives to gcode?
[23:03:17] <pfred1> why question choice?
[23:05:10] <Jymmm> pfred1: what irc client is that? Kinda looks like weechat
[23:05:17] <pfred1> irssi
[23:05:55] <Jymmm> because you have to have prgrams to create/iterprit gcode alternatives
[23:06:30] <Jymmm> and ppl have issues NOW finding gcode cam proggys as it is
[23:06:45] <pfred1> so we should all sit in loin cloths on the banks of the Gangees?
[23:07:00] <Jymmm> Toga for me
[23:07:14] <Jymmm> well, toga PARTY that is
[23:07:19] <pfred1> don't think you can exercise choice!
[23:07:55] <Jymmm> Sure, as long as the choice is gcode.
[23:07:58] <pfred1> have you any idea how many loin cloths could be made of your one toga?
[23:08:43] <Jymmm> Zero, It's my toga biotch! You wnat loin clothes, use your toga!
[23:08:51] <Jymmm> cloths
[23:09:11] <pfred1> I suppose loin cloths are clothes
[23:09:28] <Jymmm> Learn to speak typo! =)
[23:10:02] <pfred1> if you are ascetic that is
[23:10:02] <Jymmm> Whats the diff between an FPGA and a uC (like arduino/Atmel) ?
[23:10:23] <pfred1> FPGA is like a grid of fuses that you blow
[23:10:43] <Jymmm> more fundamental than that
[23:10:46] <jdhnc> but, they don't stay blown
[23:10:52] <pfred1> which is why they call it a Field Programmable Grid Array
[23:11:03] <pfred1> the old ones were blow once
[23:11:03] <Jymmm> Yeah, that I know.
[23:11:22] <Jymmm> Why would I want one over the other?
[23:11:33] <pfred1> a uC comes done
[23:11:44] <pfred1> someone already figured out the logic
[23:11:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: More basic, more fundamental.
[23:13:12] <pfred1> I'm not up on all the latest fabrications but a uC might be higher performance than an FGPA can be too
[23:13:54] <pfred1> higher density faster lower power consumption things of that nature
[23:14:15] <Jymmm> which?
[23:14:16] <pfred1> all most likely
[23:14:37] <Jymmm> all what? all uC? All FPGAs?
[23:14:44] <pfred1> a uC
[23:15:13] <Jymmm> Ok, so why FPGA's still mainstream?
[23:15:32] <pfred1> because you can customize it
[23:15:41] <Jymmm> and you can't a uC ?
[23:15:47] <pfred1> not really
[23:16:03] <Jymmm> I mean inputs, outputs, what more do youwant?
[23:17:09] <Jymmm> I'm not trying to be funny here, just trying to understand one over the other
[23:17:13] <pfred1> some folks might want all outputs and no inputs or specific numbers of them who knows
[23:17:36] <Jymmm> ok, most uC can be setup for that.
[23:17:47] <pfred1> a uC is mask created at the factory an FGPA is kid of like instant film
[23:18:19] <Jymmm> again your going to the innards of them.
[23:18:26] <Thetawaves> *kind of*
[23:18:33] <Jymmm> When would I ABSOLUTELY without a doubt want a FPGA?
[23:18:37] <Thetawaves> the transistor maps are actually nothing alike
[23:18:42] <pfred1> yeah I was concerned about my excessive lag for a moment there
[23:18:58] <Thetawaves> Jymmm, you want to implement your own hardware architecture
[23:19:11] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: doubass that statment
[23:19:15] <Jymmm> dumbass
[23:19:44] <Thetawaves> huh? fpga is used to prototype every logic semiconductor.
[23:20:06] <pfred1> you'd want an FPGA if you wanted to implrmrnt custom hardware logic
[23:20:11] <Jymmm> Say it like I have no idea what a resistor is.
[23:20:37] <pfred1> you program fpga like it is software is it like hardware software
[23:20:50] <Thetawaves> fpga allows you to implement logic at runtime without the use of a billion dollar fab
[23:20:58] <Jymmm> Pretend that I think of them BOTH as little computers on a chip.
[23:21:15] <pfred1> one is more like an etch a sketch other like blank paper
[23:21:19] <Thetawaves> this is a complex subject, i can not distill it.
[23:21:27] <Thetawaves> either you know what hardware logic is or you don't
[23:21:47] <jdhnc> fpga has the potential to be a cpu
[23:21:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: And when would I HAVE to use a FPGA? basic example would be nice
[23:22:01] <Jymmm> over a uC that is
[23:22:19] <Thetawaves> high speed
[23:22:29] <Thetawaves> say you need to process gigabyes/sec
[23:22:33] <pfred1> yeah if a uC wasn't simple enough
[23:23:06] <Thetawaves> for example, video codecs are often implemented in fpga
[23:23:39] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: Ok, so faster than CPU's as they are dedicated functions without all the BS.
[23:23:41] <Thetawaves> encoding is a relatively simple and parallel operation that can be very quickly sustained with specialized hardware
[23:23:51] <pfred1> yeah you get to hardcode the software
[23:24:07] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: I rememer some crypto stuff using FPGAs now.
[23:24:20] <pfred1> yeah a uC is GP
[23:24:41] <pfred1> so sure it can do everything but it has to jump through hoops to do much at all
[23:24:54] <Thetawaves> well, chips may have high interrupt latency
[23:25:04] <Thetawaves> or other details that make them not suitable for high speed data processing
[23:25:52] <pfred1> you can make the FPGA do only one thing and do it without any overhead it doesn't need
[23:26:14] <Jymmm> I wonder if there are crypto libs for FPGAs
[23:26:21] <pfred1> which I believe is how they are usually used
[23:26:22] <Thetawaves> of course
[23:26:31] <Thetawaves> there is a commercial softcore to do pretty much anything you want
[23:26:37] <Thetawaves> the industry works like that
[23:26:51] <Thetawaves> only a few people make soft cores for sale with frameworks
[23:26:51] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: but will work on 200K gates?
[23:26:53] <Thetawaves> or libs
[23:27:18] <Thetawaves> fpgas actually contain many different types of hardware so 200k gates isn't actually relevant
[23:27:36] <Jymmm> well, this lil thing MattyMatt linked me to
[23:27:54] <Jymmm> http://www.xess.com/prods/prod048.php
[23:28:15] <Jymmm> There are some things I need to brute force =)
[23:28:32] <Thetawaves> if you want to do dev, get the biggest baddest fpga you can
[23:28:42] <Thetawaves> build a design, and distill the essential hardware
[23:28:49] <Jymmm> Thetawaves: lol
[23:29:20] <Thetawaves> fpgas have a lot of variety in the amount of and the type of hardware
[23:29:37] <Thetawaves> smaller fpgas can seriously limit what you want to do if you don't know whats going on
[23:30:38] <Jymmm> Eh, I'll probably just OC a cpu instead
[23:31:17] <Jymmm> I just need raw speed, not a zillion cores.
[23:32:13] <Jymmm> i5 2500K can be OCed to around 4.2GHz
[23:32:23] <Jymmm> safely
[23:34:06] <Thetawaves> how is the latency on those things?
[23:34:37] <Jymmm> I wouldn't know. Never tested it.
[23:34:52] <Jymmm> that's what older HW is for =)
[23:35:24] <Jymmm> I do have some server mobo's that would be good for that though
[23:50:13] <Thetawaves> http://www.xmos.com/products/development-kits/xs1-g-development-kit
[23:55:03] <kb8wmc> Thetawaves: thanks for your help yesterday....
[23:57:25] <Thetawaves> np did you figure it out?
[23:58:23] <kb8wmc> not quite yet, I am going to catch awallin when he is not busy, and run everything I do have figured out by him
[23:58:46] <Jymmm> kb8wmc: You mean when he's land bound?
[23:59:18] <kb8wmc> oh, he is not presently land bound?
[23:59:44] <Jymmm> I thought he was still in that aorud the world yaht race