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[00:32:13] <alex4nder> yoh
[01:21:51] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT6WoCzcD_0
[01:24:05] <ssi> and on that note, gnite :)
[01:32:50] <djdelorie> sweet
[01:33:58] <Jymmm> FYI... OSX exploits
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Mac-OS-X-Security-Must-Become-a-Priority-10-Reasons-Why-705108/
[02:18:13] <DJ9DJ> moin
[05:00:07] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:57:02] <mazafaka> morning, Loetmichel
[05:57:49] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: How do you think, gas for smooth surfaces for a 4-wheeler is OK? What if some smoking in the cabin?
[05:58:05] <mazafaka> I mean, gas tanks are below the cabin.
[06:00:31] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: IF the tanks are below the Cabin AND are open to the enviroment its ok in my opinion, 'cause gas is heavier than air, any leaks will "pour" down and dissoplve
[06:00:35] <Loetmichel> -p
[06:01:19] <Jymmm> ...right on top of the hot exhaust pipes.
[06:01:27] <mazafaka> oh, didn't check its gross weight
[06:03:23] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: That UAZ spends up to 20 litres of benzine in off-road. Engine is weak and drivers tend to use high RPMs and have a momentum to get through the obstacles. And I plan to use it to get to the work as well.
[06:03:56] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: so what?
[06:04:21] <Loetmichel> 1m behind the engine the exhaust pipes are to cold to ignite anything
[06:04:35] <mazafaka> if only sparks
[06:05:50] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: the gas tanks should be "allowed" for car use
[06:06:12] <mazafaka> yeah, they will be bought with the certificate
[06:06:20] <Loetmichel> so they have a safety valve.
[06:06:32] <Loetmichel> then i see no problem
[06:06:56] <Loetmichel> maybe put some sort of heat shield between hot parts of the car and the tanks
[06:07:04] <Loetmichel> (exhaustpipe for example)
[06:08:11] <mazafaka> exhaust pipe is at right of the frame, and gas tank(s) is at left, below the cabin, instead of the left fuel tank
[06:08:38] <Loetmichel> that should be ok
[06:08:50] <mazafaka> Is it true gas is better than benzine? Benzine turns to gas condition and only then burns
[06:09:51] <mazafaka> Can't imagine my UAZ. There's one cheaper but in good condition. It's not the van though because van is too high for anything I possess.
[06:13:30] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: better in which way?
[06:15:52] <psha[work]> mazafaka: gas engines are not better, they are a bit different
[06:16:40] <psha[work]> usually they are cheaper to use since gas is not as expesnive
[06:18:09] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: thats relative becaus engines use about 30% more gas than benzine
[06:18:23] <Loetmichel> same car and engine
[06:19:41] <Loetmichel> at the moment in germany it would be cheaper 'cause the litre premium benzine costs about 185ct atm, the kg gas only 89ct...
[06:20:03] <Loetmichel> (tell me about the americans complaining about fuel prices)
[06:20:05] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: here we have (had in the summer) ~12rur/l gas and ~25 rur/l benzine
[06:20:20] <Loetmichel> whats a rur?
[06:20:24] <psha[work]> ruble
[06:20:30] <Loetmichel> ah, russia
[06:20:36] <psha[work]> eur ~ 40 rur
[06:20:52] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: tahts not fair..
[06:21:08] <psha[work]> wazzup man? :)
[06:21:19] <Loetmichel> i have just payed about 105 Eur for a fill of diesel on my Omega...
[06:21:31] <Loetmichel> 70 liters
[06:21:52] <Loetmichel> tahts about 1/12 of my monthly earnings :-(
[06:21:56] <psha[work]> diesel is nearly 20-28 depending on the place
[06:22:16] <psha[work]> near moscow and other large cities where lot of expensive cars use diesel it's not cheap
[06:22:59] <psha[work]> in distant parts of the country it's lot cheaper then benzine
[06:23:12] <psha[work]> however that's not up to date info :)
[06:23:31] <psha[work]> also not that prices were forzen to not annoy people before president election :]
[06:23:35] <psha[work]> s/not/note
[06:23:48] <psha[work]> so i guess +25% till summer end
[06:23:56] <psha[work]> s/guess/suspect
[06:24:01] <Loetmichel> its easter
[06:24:36] <Loetmichel> so the fuel prices in germany shoot through the roof as avery year
[06:24:50] <psha[work]> heh, at least you have better salaries :0
[06:24:51] <psha[work]> )
[06:24:57] <Loetmichel> right to the start of the easter holidays
[06:25:23] <Loetmichel> have we?
[06:25:24] <psha[work]> on my previous job i had ~250 eur/month
[06:25:48] <Loetmichel> i am a production manager in a mil-computer company
[06:25:58] <Loetmichel> and i have about 1200 eur a month
[06:26:27] <Loetmichel> after taxes
[06:27:18] <Loetmichel> my wife can easyly triple that, so we ARE not in any money trouble
[06:27:30] <psha[work]> heh, my wife still have ~300eur :)
[06:27:58] <Loetmichel> but paying 1100 eur rent a month wothoult telephone, heating and power my earnings alone would not be sufficient
[06:28:15] <Loetmichel> without
[06:40:11] <Valen> 1100 rent? thaught about buying?
[07:04:42] <Loetmichel> Valen: near Frankfurt am main
[07:04:52] <Loetmichel> i.e.: expensive
[07:05:07] <Loetmichel> its only a 100m^2 flat
[07:05:26] <Valen> I See
[07:05:34] <Loetmichel> 4 rooms + kitchen, toilet, bathroom
[07:05:56] <Valen> 4 rooms? sure you don't mean 4 walls? lol
[07:07:13] <Loetmichel> living room , bedroom, my workshop (second bedroom), kids room (used as guest chamber, kitchen, toilet, bathroom, two balconys ;-)
[07:08:21] <Loetmichel> its about 10 km from frankfurt city, so the banksters commute from here
[07:08:54] <Loetmichel> two villages farther out you get the same flat for 700-800
[07:34:35] <jthornton> www.f1-2000.co.uk
[07:34:48] <jthornton> guy just joined the forum
[07:39:38] <awallin> 1/4th size F1 engine !? ... oh well everyone is crazy in their own little way..
[07:43:04] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: what if you buy some cottage with time?
[07:44:16] <mazafaka> Or in Germany cottage buys you? :)
[07:45:30] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: no money and no time to move
[07:52:05] <ebe23> Can someone tell me the difference for the realtime builds and simulation builds of linux cnc?
[07:56:11] <jthornton> afaik the simulation does not have the real time kernel
[07:57:14] <ebe23> This means the simulation builds cannot be used for real usage?
[07:58:59] * Loetmichel win8 customer preview executes in the VM...
[08:07:59] <JT-Shop> what do you mean by "simulation builds"?
[08:26:53] <cradek> sim means it's a build that does not require realtime extensions in the kernel, has no hardware drivers, and can not control machinery
[08:27:13] <cradek> everything else works, it just doesn't output the motion to hardware
[08:50:21] <JT-Shop> I didn't know if he was talking about the sim configs or installing the linuxcnc pure simulator
[08:51:31] <ssi> JT-Shop, cradek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT6WoCzcD_0
[08:55:16] <JT-Shop> what is the lump in the middle of your turret top plate?
[08:55:45] <ssi> it's one of the parts
[08:55:55] <ssi> the one I was doing initial programming with, which got ruined somewhat :)
[08:56:00] <JT-Shop> oh, it looked like someone welded something on
[08:56:12] <JT-Shop> cool vid!
[08:56:25] <ssi> my tools are loaded backwards
[08:56:33] <ssi> so they have to make a full rotation on each change :P
[08:56:52] <JT-Shop> that will learn you!
[08:57:08] <JT-Shop> btw, have you seen my cycle timer comp?
[08:57:17] <ssi> nope
[08:57:35] <JT-Shop> it displays the time for each part
[08:58:07] <ssi> nice
[08:58:08] <JT-Shop> and resets when you start the next part
[09:00:33] <ssi> so my next challenge is rigid tapping
[09:00:38] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/time.9.html
[09:00:42] <frysteev_> NIPPLES
[09:00:56] <JT-Shop> the first one is always exciting
[09:01:01] <ssi> I need to make the complementary part to that part, which is 1.25" dia x 1.25" long, drilled and tapped M18x1.5
[09:01:14] <ssi> I'm sort of at a loss about how to hold that tap
[09:01:28] <JT-Shop> what is the shank diameter?
[09:01:35] <ssi> I'm hoping it's 5/8"
[09:01:40] <JT-Shop> LOL
[09:01:44] <ssi> :)
[09:02:08] <ssi> also the tap that he brought me isn't really great
[09:02:18] <ssi> and the tap DRILL that he brought me is too small
[09:02:45] <JT-Shop> a m18 x 1.0 is 13.75mm
[09:03:28] <cradek> ssi: awesome!
[09:03:36] <ssi> cradek: :D
[09:04:03] <cradek> those are sure neat little lathes.
[09:04:12] <ssi> they really are
[09:04:15] <asdfasd> ssi: did you setup your pid
[09:04:16] <ssi> I'm absolutely thrilled with it
[09:04:29] <ssi> asdfasd: it's working, but it's not perfect. I'll tweak on it more later
[09:05:05] <asdfasd> did it help reducing Kp
[09:05:13] <ssi> haven't touched it yet
[09:05:23] <cradek> it sounds right
[09:05:33] <ssi> cradek: talking about the spindle pid
[09:05:42] <cradek> ah
[09:05:45] <ssi> it's working ok, but on major speed changes it overshoots and bounces a bit
[09:06:02] <cradek> you're not using ddt of spindle position for the velocity are you?
[09:06:23] <ssi> hrm
[09:06:29] <cradek> you should use the resolver velocity output because it's index-safe
[09:06:43] <ssi> I'm using both resolver position and velocity I'm pretty sure
[09:06:47] <cradek> otherwise it'll go very wrong when you try to thread and position resets
[09:07:10] <cradek> I mean for your pid, you must be using one or the other?
[09:07:22] <ssi> using velocity
[09:07:23] <ssi> net spindle-vel-fb hm2_5i23.0.resolver.02.velocity => motion.spindle-speed-in => pid.s.feedback
[09:07:27] <ssi> net spindle-revs hm2_5i23.0.resolver.02.position => motion.spindle-revs
[09:07:33] <cradek> that's perfect
[09:32:05] <ssi> I feel as though I require a breakfast
[09:33:05] <frysteev_> make me some too
[09:33:16] <ssi> you get that damn laser running yet?
[09:33:19] <ssi> get back in the shop
[09:35:30] <frysteev_> make me wafles
[09:35:42] <ssi> I'm just gonna go to dunkin donuts :P
[09:37:43] <ssi> how much power do forming taps take?
[09:43:50] <ssi> cradek: do you have a chuck for your hnc?
[09:46:09] <cradek> ssi yes I have a 3 jaw
[09:58:49] <ssi> I want to find one
[09:59:05] <ssi> or I guess spend $500 on a backplate and new chuck maybe :/
[10:00:39] <JT-Shop> I have a 4 jaw chuck for the CHNC
[10:00:57] <ssi> you also have a taperlock spindle, and chucks with taperlock backs are common on ebay :/
[10:01:12] <cradek> I also have a little faceplate
[10:01:26] <JT-Shop> yea, I bought it new from MSC... beat the salesman up a bit and got it for a nice price
[10:01:42] <ssi> JT-Shop: get the backplate from them also?
[10:02:05] <JT-Shop> no just the 4-jaw with the proper mounting
[10:02:27] <JT-Shop> I've also used the 5c extra large collets for some 2 1/4" diameter parts
[10:02:41] <ssi> I'm using step collets for some big parts now
[10:02:51] <ssi> I have a 2" step closer and about four collets for it
[10:03:02] <ssi> the part that I have to make next is 1.25", and I already have a collet to fit it
[10:03:06] <JT-Shop> what do they look like?
[10:03:11] <ssi> the collets?
[10:03:19] <JT-Shop> yea
[10:03:51] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARDINGE-3-5C-STEP-CHUCK-3-SPLIT-/170814670489?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item27c5590699#ht_670wt_1180
[10:03:55] <ssi> like that
[10:03:55] <ssi> only mine are all 2"
[10:04:08] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-Step-Collet-With-Pot-Chuck-South-Bend-10L-13L-With-Wrench-/300667847289?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4601334279#ht_500wt_1180
[10:04:12] <ssi> closer looks like that
[10:04:17] <ssi> sorta
[10:04:18] <ssi> heheh
[10:05:59] <JT-Shop> ok, that is what I have too
[10:06:35] <JT-Shop> the second one is better
[10:06:54] <ssi> yeah I have a closer for mine
[10:07:00] <ssi> I haven't tried the type that don't use a closer
[10:07:16] <JT-Shop> closer is the outside ring?
[10:07:18] <ssi> yeah
[10:07:27] <JT-Shop> I don't have that type
[10:07:29] <ssi> the big dia of the body of the collet has a taper
[10:07:36] <ssi> and the taper matches a taper on the closer
[10:07:48] <ssi> probbaly get a lot less spring with that style
[10:07:59] <JT-Shop> yea and grip better
[10:08:04] <ssi> cause without that you're relying on the 5C taper itself to hold the part
[10:08:10] <JT-Shop> lucky for me the part is 6061
[10:08:21] <ssi> ah
[10:08:33] <ssi> these parts are cold roll now, but eventually they'll start being 4130
[10:08:50] <ssi> I'm doing this little job for a guy that makes custom motorcycle frames
[10:10:04] <JT-Shop> cool
[10:10:25] <ssi> there's six different parts he needs made, but one of them I told him I can't do
[10:10:31] <JT-Shop> I can hold up to 1.625 with my regular collets
[10:10:35] <JT-Shop> that is nice
[10:10:43] <ssi> it's big enough that I have to use my clausing to do it, and it's so worn out that it's not worth trying
[10:10:50] <ReadError> they taig mini mills any good?
[10:10:51] <ssi> yeah I'm jealous of the 16C spindle
[10:10:59] <ssi> and the servo spindle
[10:11:06] <ReadError> the*
[10:11:12] <ssi> ReadError: they're small!
[10:11:21] <ReadError> yea
[10:11:35] <ReadError> anything in the hobby price range thats good and bigger?
[10:11:47] <ssi> what's your budget?
[10:12:51] <ReadError> 8-900
[10:13:39] <ssi> can you get a taig up and running for $900?
[10:13:59] <ReadError> oh derp
[10:14:02] <ReadError> i meant lathe
[10:14:07] <ReadError> sorry i *just* woke up
[10:14:13] <ssi> what are you trying to do exactly?
[10:14:13] <ReadError> i already ordered the taig mill
[10:14:19] <ReadError> some PCBs
[10:14:22] <ReadError> motormounts
[10:14:24] <ReadError> small stuff
[10:14:35] <ssi> you talking about this?
[10:14:36] <ssi> http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html
[10:14:46] <ReadError> yea
[10:15:08] <ReadError> i dont need to make stuff thats long really
[10:15:15] <ssi> I'd be pretty leery of it
[10:15:27] <ssi> rigidity is important in lathes, and that thing doesn't look remarkably rigid
[10:16:00] <ReadError> my idea was maybe i could work on building a gantry style router once i have a mill
[10:21:36] <Loetmichel> grr. $me had to turn 2 new Collet keys because the original have dissappeared something... now i whish to hafe a knurling tool... ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13027
[10:40:15] <archivist> I got a knurling tool and a dumore tool post grinder at the scrap yard yesterday :)
[10:41:19] <archivist> I need a belt for the grinder and the motor needs looking at before I apply power to it
[10:43:29] <JT-Shop> nice find
[10:46:34] <archivist> cant find any data on this particular grinder, it has two posts for its vertical adjustment seems an old model
[10:54:29] <alex4nder> hey
[11:15:55] <joe9> alex4nder: any tips about how to get the motor alignment correct?
[11:16:12] <joe9> alex4nder: i followed the steps here:
http://www.cartertools.com/millset3.html
[11:16:17] <ReadError> you could use a feeler guage
[11:16:24] <ReadError> and see if the gap is the same
[11:16:29] <ReadError> but i have no idea ;/
[11:17:16] <IchGuckLive> joe9: direct is always a miss
[11:17:40] <joe9> IchGuckLive: what do you mean? i do not understand.
[11:19:32] <IchGuckLive> did you use a Rigid rotation coupling
[11:20:15] <joe9> IchGuckLive: this is with a taig.
http://www.cartertools.com/cncml31.jpg
[11:20:20] <joe9> http://www.cartertools.com/cncml30.jpg
[11:20:24] <IchGuckLive> joe9: something like that
http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-m2/flexible-coupling-549267.jpg
[11:21:28] <IchGuckLive> oh im wrong its not the stepper its the spindel
[11:21:51] <IchGuckLive> you are asking for or
[11:28:29] <joe9> IchGuckLive: sorry had a system freeze there.
[11:28:37] <joe9> had to reboot
[11:30:07] <alex4nder> joe9: what problem are you running into?
[11:30:27] <joe9> alex4nder: nothing. just not sure how to position the motor wrt the spindle.
[11:30:53] <joe9> alex4nder: not sure if there is any thing to be aware of, other than what is on that website.
[11:30:53] <alex4nder> joe9: ah cool
[11:31:24] <alex4nder> no, just position it above the spindle attachment points, remember the washers, and don't over tension the belt.
[11:32:21] <joe9> there are only 2 washers correct? that is what I got.
[11:32:26] <alex4nder> yup
[11:32:33] <joe9> and, they go on top of the mount, as in the pics.
[11:33:10] <alex4nder> if you don't already own some, I'd recomment bondhus t-handle allen wrenches
[11:33:20] <alex4nder> to have around your mill
[11:34:17] <joe9> yes, i got them with the taig.
[11:35:53] <alex4nder> no you don't
[11:36:12] <alex4nder> they ship t-handle bondhus allen wrenches now? :D
[11:36:51] <alex4nder> http://www.bondhus.com/products/t-handles/body-0.htm
[11:36:55] <alex4nder> ^-- those things
[11:37:32] <ReadError> wow that would be nice if it came with those heh
[11:37:45] <ReadError> joe9: where in GA are you?
[11:38:37] <joe9> oh, those. yeah, i did not get them with the taig.
[11:38:41] <joe9> ReadError: atlanta
[11:38:46] <ReadError> i work down in ATL but wasnt sure if they had any good stores around
[11:38:54] <joe9> mcmastercarr, the best around.
[11:39:02] <joe9> they have willcall, easy to pickup
[11:39:03] <ReadError> yea ssi said they have a store
[11:39:08] <ReadError> but didnt realize i could willcall!
[11:39:13] <joe9> a bit expensive though
[11:39:19] <ReadError> how late are they open?
[11:40:26] <ReadError> wow, i should have noticed the 404 number earlier on their site lol
[12:10:08] <joe9> alex4nder: for lubrication, on the axis nut/rod, do you use grease? or, just Vactra on everything?
[12:11:02] <alex4nder> I use vactra.. grease has an annoying tendency to hold onto chips
[12:20:58] <ReadError> i need to get the gallon of vactra
[12:21:09] <ReadError> and a machinist square
[12:21:12] <joe9> i am off to mcmastercarr to get that.
[12:21:26] <ReadError> joe9: ask how late willcall is open if you go by ;)
[12:21:30] <ReadError> i cant find much on their site
[12:21:37] <joe9> what is the difference between the T-square at homedepot vs machinist's square?
[12:21:47] <joe9> 6pm, check their websit.
[12:21:48] <ReadError> scumbag work makes me stay until 6pm
[12:21:51] <ReadError> ;(
[12:22:02] <ReadError> i can probably head down another day or go on lunch
[12:22:41] <joe9> alex4nder: i used the "try square" from Homedepot for the z-axis alignment.
[12:23:08] <joe9> alex4nder: is that a bad idea? should i buy a machinist's square, instead?
[12:27:15] <alex4nder> joe9: the machinists square is actually square
[12:27:20] <alex4nder> assuming you get a good one
[12:28:43] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#machinists%27-squares/=gzn5fd
[12:29:11] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2278a11 is what I am looking to buy
[12:30:03] <alex4nder> yah, that's pretty legit.
[12:30:07] <joe9> alex4nder: ok, thanks.
[12:30:24] <joe9> any size that you think might be the most helpful for use with a taig?
[12:30:54] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2278a14 seems a good price for the size.
[12:31:07] <ReadError> im going with the 4x6 i think
[12:31:47] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2278a14 is a 6inch x 4inch
[12:33:41] <joe9> i think the 9 inch version might be more useful though.
[12:33:47] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2278a17
[12:34:57] <joe9> alex4nder: which one do you have?
[12:37:22] <ReadError> deepgrove didnt look like he had a huge one
[12:38:15] <alex4nder> joe9: I have a 3", 4" and 6"
[12:38:40] <joe9> oh, why do you need all 3?
[12:39:08] <alex4nder> beause there are times when you want a shorter length, when you're doing setup/fixturing.
[12:39:54] <joe9> alex4nder: and, you used the 6" one to set the z-axis?
[12:40:04] <alex4nder> yup
[14:08:19] <Connor> anyone here use KL-5056's ?
[14:08:41] <ssi> ReadError: did you figure out where mcmaster's willcall is?
[14:38:44] <ssi> blahhhh
[15:23:54] <ReadError> ssi: i need to find the address
[15:24:29] <ReadError> oh its off fulton industrial
[15:58:48] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:59:02] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: G'MORNING!
[15:59:08] <DJ9DJ> good night! :)
[15:59:43] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: BTW... gn8 == G'Nate
[16:21:34] <stevegt_> Hey all -- does anyone know if there is any tutorial, HOWTO, or other docs for setting up 5axiskins and AXIS? Seems like this would be a FAQ, but I'm not finding it...
[16:23:51] <stevegt_> I haven't even been able to figure out yet if AXIS will be able to properly show a backplot for the rotary axes, for instance.
[16:38:45] <ReadError> Your Amazon.com order of "Taig Micro Mill 2019CR" has shipped!
[16:38:46] <ReadError> ;o
[16:52:14] <alex4nder> re..
[16:52:24] <alex4nder> ReadError: congrats
[16:53:42] <frysteev_> anyone here handy with 3 phase power on their machines?
[16:55:26] <ReadError> dang
[16:55:29] <ReadError> false positive ;(
[16:55:36] <ReadError> they clicked it by mistake
[17:01:00] <syyl__> why, frysteev_
[17:03:31] <frysteev_> is there such thing as a diy phase rotation idicator? :P
[17:04:42] <Thetawaves> there are are circuits that can give you phase offset
[17:04:58] <syyl__> get a 3ph motor :)
[17:07:21] <alex4nder> ReadError: that sucks
[17:45:29] * Loetmichel is doing it the redneck way...
[17:46:04] <Loetmichel> last piece of 20mm aluminium... got a little error setting xy-coordinates for zero...
[17:46:44] <Loetmichel> ... recognized the error AFTER milling the 1/" bearing seat...
[17:47:07] <Loetmichel> but 2-minute-bi-Resin to the rescue...
[17:47:19] <Loetmichel> ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13030
[17:47:21] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:48:15] <Loetmichel> (the bit plastics in the bearing seat is not really a problem, its the side without fixed bearings ;-)
[17:49:51] <Loetmichel> 1/2" bearing seat
[17:56:36] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: haha
[17:56:48] <Tom_itx> a little error??
[17:59:27] <Loetmichel> wrong sign
[17:59:37] <Loetmichel> -3mm instead of +3mm
[17:59:45] <Loetmichel> in both x and y
[18:12:20] <stevegt_> Loetmichel: what's holding that workpiece in place?
[18:12:30] <stevegt_> (looking at the photo)
[18:12:55] <Loetmichel> CyanAcrylate ;-)
[18:13:38] <stevegt_> ohhhhh.... what's that substrate then? not delrin or uhmw?
[18:14:25] <Loetmichel> the same 2-minute-bi-resin as in the repaired workpiece
[18:14:39] <Loetmichel> polyurethane resin
[18:16:05] <Loetmichel> its my "sacrificial workplate"
[18:16:50] <stevegt_> huh! that's a great idea -- probably doesn't translate to where I am very well (US), but what brand or source did you get that from?
[18:17:43] <LawrenceSeattle> hey. I see people are using servos for cnc. Is this just for really big machines? Most designs seem to use steppers...
[18:18:34] * stevegt_ looks at mcmaster.com under "polyurethane sheets", trying to figure out if any of it is the same thing as what Loetmichel is using
[18:19:44] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: servos work for big or small -- just different control circiutry, motors must have encoders, etc... used to be a lot more expensive than just open-loop stepper control
[18:20:10] <Loetmichel> stevegt_: look for Sika G27 Bi.resin
[18:20:18] <Loetmichel> -.+-
[18:20:52] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: what are people liking better? Seems like you would end up with pretty expensive servos...
[18:21:55] <Loetmichel> stevegt_: its a cheap, fast (2 minutes) resin for molding.
[18:22:08] <Loetmichel> and its thin as water
[18:22:19] <Loetmichel> ... for 1,5minutes ;-)
[18:24:02] <stevegt_> Loetmichel: but you buy the same thing in sheets as well? McMaster's catalog doesn't seem to understand that concept (and they don't usually show brand names) -- I've always had trouble sourcing any of the machinable resins, for that matter, at least around here
[18:24:32] <Loetmichel> no, i just moldet the plate
[18:24:36] <Loetmichel> molded
[18:25:04] <Loetmichel> i buy that in 1kg bottles for about 20 eur
[18:25:09] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: steppers are simplest to understand and control, so that's sort of the default for linuxcnc projects
[18:25:55] <LawrenceSeattle> ok, I can make boards and have reprap boards too. wonder if there's a good design I can use
[18:25:59] <stevegt_> Loetmichel: 1kg of that stuff is about how many liters?
[18:26:03] <Loetmichel> its cheaper than the heavy (green) ureol but has nearly the same properties
[18:26:10] <Loetmichel> about one liter
[18:26:20] <Loetmichel> it swims but barely so
[18:27:55] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: I resisted buying for a while, wanted to use purely open-source boards, but a friend convinced me to just go with the 4-channel gecko drive and matched steppers from cncrouterparts.com -- I'm glad he did -- I'm having a lot more fun trying to understand 4 and 5-axis milling instead of messing with motors and drivers
[18:29:33] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: yea I heard good things about the geckos
[18:29:38] <Loetmichel> stevegt_: two caveats of theat stuff: it shrinks a few % when hardening, so lage molds tend be go "banana" on you and it heats up while hardening, so dont make blocks thicker than 20 mm at once or it will stat to burn!
[18:29:45] <LawrenceSeattle> quite pricey though
[18:30:41] <Loetmichel> geckos are great but pricey
[18:30:57] * stevegt_ is looking up G27 specs
[18:31:38] <Loetmichel> if one has some experience with steppers one can buy the cheap chinese TB6560 stuff, but they have to be twaked to run smooth
[18:31:56] <LawrenceSeattle> I heard those boards sucked though
[18:32:41] <LawrenceSeattle> looking for something in between the two. Maybe $100-150 for electronics if possible.
[18:32:58] <LawrenceSeattle> I designed a reprap board so I could totally design one... but it's just easier not to
[18:33:15] <asdfasd> the blue boards TB6560 are crap
[18:33:25] <stevegt_> Yeah, the price of geckos is what kept causing me to veer away from them. But they're good stuff, and I'm glad I spent the money. Sort of like buying a sherline mill instead of trying to cobble my own together from 80/20.
[18:33:47] <jdhnc> g540 is pretty damned cheap, relatively.
[18:33:48] <LawrenceSeattle> you guys prefer unipolar or bipolar steppers?
[18:34:05] <jdhnc> $229 for 4 drives, charge pump, breakouts, etc.
[18:34:14] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: cncrouterparts has 4 big steppers and a 4-channel geck for $600, total. I realized that would be hard to beat, so that's what I got.
[18:34:23] <stevegt_> gecko
[18:35:40] <stevegt_> yeah, the g540 is what I got, plus 4 steppers, 380 oz/in each
[18:35:53] <stevegt_> correction -- $665 for the set
[18:36:02] <LawrenceSeattle> nice. quite the beast. I just want to do pcbs though so probably overkill
[18:36:29] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: yes, those steppers would be overkill for PCBs ;-)
[18:36:33] <jdhnc> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-3_axis_4_axis_kits/g540-4-axis-nema23-381ozin-nema34-906ozin-48v7-3a-psu
[18:37:32] <jdhnc> oh, that includes a bigass 34 for Z
[18:37:33] <stevegt_> And here's the one I was talking about:
http://www.cncrouterparts.com/4-axis-electronics-kit-p-75.html?cPath=22
[18:38:34] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: otoh, yes, even with PCBs you do need to worry about the Z axis motor torque, depending on how heavy the headstock is
[18:39:11] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: true. How geared down are these setups in the Z usually?
[18:40:30] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: remember that you want a high-rpm spindle/motor for the tiny little PCB bits -- 10k at least. That's going to push you into a palm router (heavy) or at least a dremel -- a normal mini-mill won't do it (sherline has a 10k option though)
[18:41:06] <LawrenceSeattle> yea, looking at the fireball v90. anyone use that here?
[18:41:18] <LawrenceSeattle> + palm router
[18:41:28] <LawrenceSeattle> wonder how much slop there is in that sort of a setup
[18:42:40] <stevegt_> the Z axis steps/mm isn't usually the issue -- you can't usually change that anyway for and off-the shelf mini-mill, which often has the same leadscrew ratio for x, y, and z, just to keep things simple
[18:42:55] <stevegt_> s/for and/for an/
[18:44:06] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: yes, you do want to care about backlash up front -- spend time on selecting for that, because again it's hard to tighten up a bad design later
[18:45:23] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: aren't leadscrew setups pretty low backlash? what do I look for?
[18:46:33] <stevegt_> For instance, my stock sherline has about .002-.005 inches of backlash in its various axes, for various reasons. Getting rid of all of it would mean redesigning both the motor mount thrust bearing retainer and the leadscre nuts themselves.
[18:47:26] <stevegt_> I wouldn't say the sherline has a *bad* design -- it's just a balance between cost and precision.
[18:48:24] <stevegt_> One way people have tightened it up, for instance, is replacing the stock brass leadscrew nuts with molded-in-place delrin or moglice ones.
[18:48:34] <LawrenceSeattle> well, I definitely need precision for pcbs. .002 would probably be tolerable. what would you recommend?
[18:48:47] <LawrenceSeattle> ah
[18:49:40] <ReadError> LawrenceSeattle
[18:49:42] <ReadError> i was lookin at it
[18:49:45] <ReadError> looks nice :)
[18:50:06] <LawrenceSeattle> ReadError: any idea how much slop to expect in that model?
[18:50:12] <ReadError> no idea
[18:50:18] <ReadError> i was lookin at them a week or 2 ago
[18:50:26] <ReadError> the wood kinda scares me though
[18:50:40] <LawrenceSeattle> well it's MDF
[18:52:23] <ReadError> i want the comet table kit
[18:52:27] <ReadError> but not the PC and stuff
[18:53:48] <LawrenceSeattle> yea PC just jacks up the cost unnecessarily
[18:53:58] <LawrenceSeattle> plenty of old PCs out there
[18:54:29] <ReadError> yea and they wont sell it w/o the PC :(((
[18:54:45] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: you saw that .007" in the "drive nuts" paragraph at
http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/?
[18:55:40] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: yea. wonder what the anti-backlash ones do
[18:57:13] <ReadError> where do you see that stevegt_?
[18:57:38] <LawrenceSeattle> dang the comet weighs 300lb
[18:57:45] <LawrenceSeattle> shipping must be killer
[18:58:23] <ReadError> LawrenceSeattle: decided to get a mill
[18:58:26] <ReadError> and build my own ;)
[18:58:41] <LawrenceSeattle> yea probably cheaper
[18:58:46] <LawrenceSeattle> what mill?
[18:58:53] <ReadError> taig 2019cr
[18:59:10] <ReadError> smaller bed, but i can move stuff around to make the cuts i need i think
[18:59:26] <LawrenceSeattle> was looking at a proxxon mf70
[18:59:38] <ReadError> i think i saw that on amazon
[19:00:19] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: looking at
http://www.probotix.com/downloads/V90_antibacklash_nut.pdf -- looks like the anti-backlash option uses those springs to keep split delrin nuts compressed around the leadscrew threads -- closest thing to just heating the leadscre and molding the dlerin around it the way some people do with mini-mills
[19:00:21] <LawrenceSeattle> what sort of accuracy do you get with your taig?
[19:00:44] <ReadError> its not here yet
[19:00:51] <ReadError> but several folks here have em
[19:01:18] <LawrenceSeattle> looks nice
[19:01:18] <ReadError> http://www.deepgroove1.com/engrave%20taig512K_Stream.mov
[19:01:23] <ReadError> looks pretty accurate
[19:03:29] <LawrenceSeattle> have you seen any opensource designs like the comet? seems like you could just mill the connectors and buy the 80/20+hardware
[19:04:46] <ReadError> the linear slides seem the most expensive
[19:04:55] <ReadError> unless you use some kind of rolling bearings
[19:04:55] <LawrenceSeattle> makerslide
[19:05:34] <ReadError> oh cool
[19:05:39] <ReadError> it uses the 80/20
[19:06:58] <stevegt_> Loetmichel: I'm thinking that one of these castable urethanes might be similar (but not identical) to what you're using -- I'll have to try them:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#casting-compound-resins/=gzrtfk
[19:10:43] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: cncrouterparts.com has open-source designs
[19:11:12] <stevegt_> they use colled-roll steel and 80/20 for the slides as well
[19:11:18] <stevegt_> cold-roll
[19:11:33] <stevegt_> cold-rolled, arg
[19:11:51] <LawrenceSeattle> ah nice
[19:12:05] <LawrenceSeattle> this one?
http://www.kronosrobotics.com/krmx02/index.shtml
[19:12:30] <LawrenceSeattle> damn 400lb
[19:12:39] <ReadError> makerslide looks nice
[19:13:21] <stevegt_> actually, the cncrouterparts slide looks cheaper to make than the makerslide design, and should be as accurate
[19:14:49] <LawrenceSeattle> was also looking at the zentools kits. I'd prefer something 12x12"
[19:20:06] <Jymmm> LawrenceSeattle: as in escaped canuck?
[19:22:54] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: yes, and here's their page for the kronos kit:
http://www.cncrouterparts.com/krmx02-parts-bundle-p-153.html?cPath=29
[19:22:54] <LawrenceSeattle> heh
[19:23:25] <LawrenceSeattle> nice looking cnc. Overkill for me though
[19:23:35] <Jymmm> LawrenceSeattle: They let you across the border, or did you take one of those back road crossings?
[19:24:03] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: you might be surprised -- remember, if you get, say, a 2'x2' machine, it can make cases as well
[19:24:18] <stevegt_> i think you'll be cramped on a 12x12
[19:24:21] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: true
[19:24:37] <LawrenceSeattle> shop space is at a premium though
[19:25:53] <Thetawaves> i am cramped on 20cmx30cm
[19:26:00] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: tell me about it. I've got my whole sherline setup, with flood cooling, enclosure, and everything, crammed onto a 2'x3' harbor freight cart. ;-)
[19:27:16] <Jymmm> doens't sound like a bad way to go other than HF
[19:27:27] <stevegt_> Thetawaves: that's a little small -- not much bigger than a mini mill
[19:27:29] <Jymmm> cq cq cq dx
[19:27:47] <Thetawaves> yes it is tiny.
[19:28:08] <LawrenceSeattle> I need to find a ME type to partner up with really. I can do the electronics/coding
[19:28:23] <stevegt_> Jymmm: the HF 2x3' cart is a good strong cart -- it falls into the category of "they lucked out on that design" ;-)
[19:28:41] <alex4nder> stevegt_: I'm doing something similar but with an 80/20 cart
[19:28:43] <alex4nder> and a taig
[19:29:02] <Jymmm> stevegt_: Ah, ok. Else I'd ecommend a rubbermaid if you can afford one.
[19:29:24] <Jymmm> stevegt_: damn things are very cool, but damn expensive
[19:29:36] <stevegt_> alex4nder: I've debated "upgrading" to either 80/20, unitrut, or just get a big toolchest on wheels so I've got good storage for bits and jigs etc.
[19:29:54] <alex4nder> yup, all good options
[19:30:09] <stevegt_> unistrut
[19:30:12] <alex4nder> the toolchest would be nice, but I'd have a rough time justifying it unless I got something like a used Lista.
[19:33:13] <joe9> alex4nder: where do you find the taig spec to figure out the speed settings, etc?
[19:33:26] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: I've gotten spoiled by having access to a friend's epilog laser -- if I didn't have that, I'd want at least a 18"*24" CNC router for panel-cutting etc. And of course the router can cut sheet aluminum and the laser can only do acrylic and thin wood
[19:33:37] <joe9> i think HF has a 25% sale this weekend.
[19:36:22] <joe9> alex4nder
http://www.super-tech.com/root/grp.asp?p1=micromill-tooltips good one?
[19:36:32] <alex4nder> yah, that's fine
[19:37:19] <alex4nder> I only really use 1k, 3k, and 10k
[19:37:40] <stevegt_> Jymmm: I'd be afriad of putting this much weight on a composite cart like the rubbermaid -- the sherline (which is extra heavy because of the big motors and rotary table I've added), 5 gallons of coolant, and a couple of 2"x18"x18" concrete slabs to keep the sherline out of the soup. I'd be afraid a plastic cart would start to slump after a few months of that.
[19:39:28] <ve7it> Jymmm, there is an imposter lurking....
[19:40:19] <stevegt_> I keep expecting one of the little 1/4-20 bolts that holds the HF cart together is going to go *pop*, followed shortly by the others, but so far so good ;-)
[20:02:41] <joe9> does anyone use the keystick gui?
[20:02:51] <joe9> or, cui, to be precise?
[20:03:10] <pfred1> never heard of it
[20:03:40] <pfred1> is it a window manager?
[20:04:46] <Jymmm> ve7it: I'm not sure, do you have a double?
[20:05:59] <ve7it> Jymmm, doppleganger maybe
[20:06:32] <Jymmm> ve7it: Ah, perhapse, but that would be scarry
[20:06:35] <Jymmm> scary
[20:07:14] <Jymmm> ve7it: check PM
[20:08:24] <joe9> pfred1: i am reading up the linuxcnc documentation. it is similar to the axis gui.
[20:08:41] <pfred1> joe9 oh a front end
[20:12:48] * pfred1 fixed his PC with bar lube
[20:13:48] * Tom_itx believes that
[20:14:12] <pfred1> the PSU fan was making these terrible sounds a couple drops of bar lube good as new!
[20:15:04] <pfred1> of course i had to void its non existent warranty in order to do so
[20:15:35] <joe9> is there something better than this
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?QuickStart
[20:15:48] <joe9> i am looking to start using linuxcnc and am reading up the manual.
[20:16:04] <joe9> i just want to start one axis motor, move from end to end
[20:16:21] <joe9> and, then do the same thing with the other 2 axes.
[20:16:42] <joe9> just move from end to end.
[20:17:16] <joe9> pfred1: one of my car pulleys is making a lot of noise when humid. need to fix that. will see if bar lube might help there.
[20:17:39] <pfred1> sure it isn't the belt?
[20:18:00] <pfred1> sometimes they or the pully itself get glazed
[20:18:13] <joe9> oh, never thought of the belt.
[20:18:30] <joe9> it makes the whiny noise when rainy or after the rain.
[20:18:33] <pfred1> yeah try sanding it while it is running like tape some sandpaper to a stick of wood
[20:19:07] <pfred1> just to break the glaze like don't go nuts
[20:19:53] <pfred1> but if the belt is all cracked and stuff just change it but maybe scuff the pulley a little
[20:21:37] <pfred1> joe9 whatever you do don't get any bar lube on the belt!
[20:22:06] <joe9> oh, ok. thanks.
[20:22:32] <pfred1> they make a stick of this crap called belt squeak stop but I think sanding them is better
[20:22:40] <joe9> pfred1: are you aware of any "quick start" guide for linuxcnc?
[20:23:12] <Tom_itx> dive in head first
[20:23:21] <pfred1> what I did was open a front end then file : open then navigate ot the examples directory
[20:23:43] <Loetmichel> sooo, first bearing block done. Tomorrow i will make the second (its 03:13 over here)
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13033
[20:23:47] <pfred1> sort of the same thing I do with every program
[20:24:09] <pfred1> axis is cool there
[20:26:09] <pfred1> Loetmichel are those the cheap Horrible Fright digital calipers?
[20:26:45] * pfred1 has those
[20:27:05] <pfred1> like if you turn it on does it start off at zero no matter where the jaws are?
[20:28:28] <joe9> Tom_itx: tried that approach. I could not figure out what was going on.
[20:29:04] <pfred1> joe9 you have to estop off machine on then home all of your axises
[20:29:32] <joe9> pfred1: estop is F1, correct? (from the manual).
[20:29:39] <pfred1> I donno i use the menu
[20:29:42] <joe9> and then just move the axis from one end to the other.
[20:30:12] <pfred1> but once you do all of that it starts working
[20:30:30] <pfred1> like how you may thnk it would
[20:30:42] <pfred1> until you do that though it just errors
[20:32:18] <alex4nder> gentlemen
[20:52:12] <joe9> nothing happens when I press "Toggle Emergency stop"
http://codepad.org/kRUs0f2f is from my kernel.
[20:52:31] <joe9> looks like linuxcnc is sending the correct message (or, is it not?)
[20:52:38] <joe9> Apr 6 21:36:24 firefox kernel: [ 139.237560] config string '0x378 out '
[20:52:50] <joe9> is what makes me think that something might be off in my configuration.
[20:53:00] <pfred1> you machine's name is firefox?
[20:53:06] <joe9> yes
[20:53:07] <Tom_itx> do you have limits that aren't hooked up yet?
[20:53:26] <pfred1> 0x378 is parallel port's standard address
[20:53:42] <Tom_itx> so is 0x278
[20:54:04] <pfred1> 0x378 much more common 0x278 is the secondary
[20:54:16] <Tom_itx> agreed
[20:54:36] <pfred1> that doesn't look like an error to me I don't know
[20:55:21] <pfred1> joe9 if you want to get really paranoid sudo tail -f /var/log/syslog in a terminal :)
[20:56:21] <joe9> is there a debug mode for linuxcnc?
[20:57:33] <joe9> or, atleast a command line mode?
[20:57:35] <pfred1> I think you'd have to build it with debugging symbols
[20:57:39] <joe9> oh, ok.
[20:57:43] <cradek> what are you trying to do?
[20:58:07] <pfred1> cradek I think joe9 has to switch to the decaff
[20:58:32] <joe9> cradek: i am just trying to use the machine from linuxcnc.
[20:58:51] <joe9> i read from the manual that the first step is to toggle Estop
[20:59:08] <pfred1> turn it off
[20:59:24] <pfred1> linuxcnc starts out with estop on
[21:00:03] <pfred1> joe9 then you have to turn the machine on
[21:01:01] <joe9> i had the machine on before I started linuxcnc program.
[21:01:18] <pfred1> no you have to turn the machine on in linuxcnc
[21:01:29] <joe9> and, the hardware estop on the machine is off/disengaged.
[21:01:45] <pfred1> ok is the machine on in linuxcnc?
[21:01:49] <joe9> no
[21:02:03] <joe9> linuxcnc cannot even see the machine, it appears to me.
[21:02:19] <pfred1> of course it can
[21:02:20] <pfred1> 't
[21:03:19] <joe9> the GeckoG540 has a green light
[21:03:31] <pfred1> you have ot turn the machine on in linuxcnc
[21:03:32] <joe9> so, that means that linuxcnc is communicating with the Gecko.
[21:03:47] <joe9> pfred1: i agree.
[21:04:01] <joe9> but, the first step seems to be to "toggle Estop" before turning the machine on.
[21:04:15] <joe9> from linuxcnc
[21:04:22] <joe9> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gui/axis.html
[21:04:32] <joe9> 2.1. A Typical Session
[21:05:12] <joe9> cradek, i set up the taig machine that i bought with Gecko G540 and 3 stepper motors on each axis.
[21:05:50] <joe9> cradek: the G540 has a green light on, with the "charge pump" on.
[21:06:04] <joe9> and, now I am trying to move the axes from linuxcnc.
[21:06:32] <joe9> with linuxcnc, I start it using the command "linuxcnc" after running the "../scripts/rip-environment".
[21:06:45] <joe9> linuxcnc programs starts fine and shows me the "Axis" gui.
[21:07:05] <joe9> All the options in the Manual tab (F3) are disabled.
[21:07:20] <joe9> Pressing F3 does not do anything.
[21:07:34] <joe9> I read from the manual that the first step is to toggle Estop.
[21:07:50] <joe9> I try that from both the icon and menu item, but, nothing happens when I do that.
[21:08:35] <joe9> and, at the bottom of the "Axis" gui window, it says "ESTOP No Tool Position: Relative Actual"
[21:08:54] <alex4nder> what happens why you try to move an axis?
[21:08:58] <pfred1> joe9 the same menu where yo uturned estop off there should be machine on
[21:09:39] <joe9> The "Turn Machine Power (F2)" is disabled.
[21:10:39] <joe9> with the debug level, this is what I get :
[21:10:42] <joe9> http://codepad.org/mpmSu6MY
[21:11:21] <joe9> when I press "Toggle Emergency Stop" menu item.
[21:12:08] <joe9> this is the "Show Linuxcnc status"
http://codepad.org/SySbdxQ0
[21:13:37] <joe9> this is my linuxcnc startup
http://codepad.org/bISi3L8c
[21:14:01] <joe9> cradek, any more info I can provide?
[21:14:10] <pfred1> joe9 take a screenshot of your session
[21:14:50] <pfred1> exit linuxcnc restart it and just hit estop once
[21:15:18] <pfred1> because if you hit it an even number of tomes you're in estop mode
[21:15:48] <joe9> this is my taig.ini:
http://codepad.org/uH0zKxi7
[21:17:03] <joe9> pfred1: restarting it, seemed to help.
[21:17:19] <pfred1> cool just hit estop once
[21:17:27] <pfred1> now find machine on
[21:17:38] <pfred1> because until you turn it on in the software it won't do anything
[21:17:57] <joe9> no, same behaviour.
[21:18:08] <pfred1> you turned it on?
[21:18:31] <pfred1> even after you turn it on it still won't do anything
[21:18:33] <joe9> no, hitting ESTOP does not change anything.
[21:18:38] <pfred1> you have to home each axis
[21:18:48] <pfred1> what are you expecting to change?
[21:18:52] <joe9> pfred1: no, I cannot even get there.
[21:19:04] <joe9> when it starts, the ESTOP is on
[21:19:08] <joe9> and I cannot change it.
[21:19:10] <pfred1> yes turn it off
[21:19:21] <joe9> nothing happens when I click on it.
[21:19:24] <pfred1> then you must have something messed up in your config
[21:19:35] <joe9> yup, that is possible.
[21:19:41] <joe9> i think I did the ESTOP pin wrong.
[21:19:46] <joe9> or something like that.
[21:19:48] <alex4nder> I would recommend getting a beer.
[21:19:49] <pfred1> it expects a signal at an input and you have the wrong one like you have a physical estop switch engaged
[21:20:09] <alex4nder> how did you wire your estop switch with the G540?
[21:20:49] <pfred1> you have to reverse whatever the config file says if yo ucannot disengage estop you can't do anything
[21:21:21] <pfred1> the software thinks the machine is grinding a human being up and blood is up and down the walls
[21:21:35] <joe9> ground to switch to pin 10. that worked, I checked it with the gecko feature (disable charge pump, estop on, red light, estop off, green light)
[21:22:12] <alex4nder> well it worked for the G540, but what does linuxcnc think the status is?
[21:22:36] <pfred1> alex4nder the polarity has to be wrong
[21:22:40] <joe9> this is my taig.hal:
http://codepad.org/Twaz6Vfl
[21:22:44] <alex4nder> pfred1: that's what I'm thinking
[21:23:04] <pfred1> joe9 can you turn your estop switch on?
[21:23:07] <joe9> that is probable, the Gecko G540 expects ground when Estop is off.
[21:23:29] <pfred1> just to see if you can disengage estop in the software
[21:23:30] <joe9> when I do that, the G540 goes to red light.
[21:23:34] <pfred1> so
[21:23:39] <pfred1> I don't care about that now
[21:23:46] <pfred1> I want to see if yo ucan get linuxcnc out of estop
[21:23:56] <joe9> ok, let me try tha.
[21:24:04] <joe9> s/tha/that.
[21:24:04] <pfred1> one step at a time
[21:24:26] <pfred1> if yo ucan the nthat confirms a misconfiguraiton
[21:25:54] <joe9> pfred1: you are correct
[21:25:59] <pfred1> ok
[21:26:12] <pfred1> grep -in estop * in yoru config dir
[21:26:25] <joe9> when I have the Estop switch on, the linuxcnc came out of the ESTOP mode.
[21:26:27] <pfred1> because i really have no idea what the line is
[21:26:42] <pfred1> yes yo uneed to switch it in your configfile
[21:29:13] <joe9> http://codepad.org/iRVq2XZb
[21:29:18] <joe9> is the result of the grep
[21:29:59] <pfred1> the line numbers might have helped
[21:31:34] <pfred1> joe9 I see estop mentioned but no line is standing out that sets the polarity to me
[21:32:17] <pfred1> joe9 btw the n switch in grep gives you the line number displayed
[21:33:19] <pfred1> if i had to bet I'd say it is the last line?
[21:34:10] <pfred1> joe9
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/io.1.html
[21:34:19] * pfred1 is a good guesser :)
[21:38:31] <pfred1> joe9
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/io.1.html
[21:43:04] <pfred1> joe9 are you there?
[21:43:25] <joe9> pfred1: yes, sorry, had issues with irc there for some time.
[21:43:30] <joe9> net estop-ext <= parport.0.pin-15-in <
[21:43:34] <joe9> is my problem.
[21:43:39] <joe9> i need to get rid of that line
[21:43:56] <pfred1> joe9 this looks like what you need to do linkpp parport.0.pin-15-in-not iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[21:44:00] <joe9> net estop-ext => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in >> net estop-out => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[21:44:08] <joe9> change the above line
[21:44:14] <pfred1> no leave that line alone add the other one
[21:44:54] <pfred1> then turn your estop switch off
[21:45:08] <pfred1> like on your machine
[21:45:48] <pfred1> or wait first grep for linkpp in yoru config file see if it is there already
[21:45:52] <joe9> the G540 says that pin 15 is "FAULT (input to PC)"
[21:46:04] <joe9> and, I set that to ESTOP
[21:46:06] <pfred1> talk to mariss about that
[21:46:16] <pfred1> they're his drives
[21:46:29] <joe9> alex4nder uses the same setup that I had and his config is different on that line.
[21:46:41] <joe9> he does not have that estop-ext line
[21:47:13] <joe9> or, maybe, I can just invert that estop-ext line.
[21:47:29] <pfred1> the command I gave you should do that
[21:47:31] <joe9> add an "invert = 1"
[21:47:34] <joe9> oh, ok.
[21:47:35] <pfred1> no
[21:47:44] <joe9> got it. thanks.
[21:48:21] <alex4nder> I live dangerously.
[21:48:25] <pfred1> then restart linuxcnc and we'll see what happens
[21:49:57] <pfred1> this would all be a lot easier if joe9 could run stepconf
[21:50:07] <joe9> http://codepad.org/Ef7yBvSm
[21:50:10] <jdhnc> why can't he.
[21:50:14] <pfred1> beats me
[21:50:21] <joe9> pfred1: that is how I got this config file.
[21:50:27] <joe9> pfred1: i used stepconf
[21:50:39] <joe9> from the linuxcnc cd.
[21:50:52] <pfred1> oh then get that line out and run stepconf you can invert stuff there
[21:51:08] <pfred1> just hit the checkbox by the pin
[21:51:25] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[21:51:35] <pfred1> load your config file and use stepconf to fix it
[21:51:46] <pfred1> but take that line out first
[21:53:08] <pfred1> linuxcnc is awfully boring with estop engaged all the time
[21:54:55] <jdhnc> I need some 0.375" black delrin, any good (cheap) sources?
[21:55:47] <pfred1> jdhnc I'm glad we got that cleared up
[21:56:58] <jdhnc> never hurts to ask.
[21:57:07] <pfred1> can't use seaboard huh?
[21:57:32] <jdhnc> that's what I used first time. I think Delrin will be better.
[21:57:42] <pfred1> it'd better be
[22:00:13] <jdhnc> http://tinyurl.com/7h4dmvs
[22:00:33] <jdhnc> it's the part with the textured surface
[22:00:47] <pfred1> that scuba gear?
[22:00:52] <jdhnc> yeah
[22:01:13] <pfred1> you'd think seaboard would be good in the water ;)
[22:01:46] <jdhnc> it works fine, I just don't like the texturing
[22:01:54] <pfred1> polish it
[22:02:06] <jdhnc> I'd rather just buy some delrin
[22:02:24] <jdhnc> there are a few other things I'd like to remake with delrin also.
[22:02:42] <ssi> http://www.mcmaster.com/#acetal-homopolymer-sheets/=gzukjc
[22:03:26] <alex4nder> who you calling a homopolymer
[22:03:26] <jdhnc> yeah, kinda pricey. 12x12 sheet is $41
[22:03:47] <ssi> mcmaster's never cheapest
[22:03:53] <ssi> but usually convenient :)
[22:04:02] <ssi> do you really need sheet?
[22:04:09] <ssi> strips would be easir probably
[22:04:16] <ssi> 3/8" thick by 1" wide by 1' is like $4
[22:04:23] <jdhnc> no, 2.5" wide would cover what I need.
[22:05:01] <ssi> to make
http://tinyurl.com/7h4dmvs
[22:05:02] <ssi> ?
[22:05:07] <ssi> that looks more like 1" wide
[22:05:12] <ssi> if that
[22:05:18] <ssi> oh wait
[22:05:21] <ssi> I see the part you're talking about
[22:05:23] <jdhnc> 1.6" wide for that one.
[22:05:24] <ssi> nm :)
[22:05:38] <ssi> is that a rebreather?
[22:05:42] <jdhnc> http://tinyurl.com/cwoxvqt
[22:05:54] <jdhnc> it holds the heads-up-display for the rebreather.
[22:06:09] <ssi> I always wanted a rebreather :(
[22:06:33] * pfred1 likes new air
[22:07:07] <jdhnc> if it is just air, you don't need the RB
[22:07:36] <jdhnc> online metals has 12x12 sheet for $33.
[22:09:09] <jdhnc> that's just black plate acetal though, copolymer is $46
[22:10:20] <pfred1> Delrin Virgin black sheet 0.375'' x 3'' x 3.375'' Made in USA
[22:10:32] <jdhnc> ebay?
[22:10:39] <pfred1> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delrin-Virgin-black-sheet-0-375-x-3-x-3-375-Made-in-USA-CNC-0-2F-/400276633366?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3258b716
[22:10:44] <jdhnc> some guy is selling lots of odd sizes for $12.80
[22:11:01] <pfred1> you can make them an offer too
[22:13:16] <pfred1> 0.375 delrin sheet turns up a bunch of lots
[22:13:37] <pfred1> all for you guessed it, $12.80
[22:13:38] <jdhnc> I only saw 4 or 5 (black) ones, all same guy
[22:14:34] <pfred1> this one should do you
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delrin-Virgin-black-sheet-0-375-x-2-625-x-6-Made-in-USA-CNC-0-3F-/150757856286?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2319de541e
[22:15:41] <jdhnc> I'm pretty sure if I just buy a small piece, I will screw itup.
[22:17:22] <pfred1> it comes from Niagra falls
[22:20:00] <jdhnc> I offered him $16 for two 4.6x5.8
[22:20:19] <pfred1> its all stuff he is dumpster diving for I bet he'll take it
[22:20:49] <joe9> pfred1: now, I have the icons enabled in linuxcnc.
[22:21:14] <joe9> pfred1: I press "Home Axis" and nothing happens. What should I be doing to move the X-axis from end to end.
[22:21:27] <pfred1> joe9 you got out of estop?
[22:21:27] <joe9> pfred1: if you do not mind answering.
[22:21:37] <joe9> pfred1: yes. the machine is on, now.
[22:21:52] <jdhnc> can you jog it?
[22:21:54] <pfred1> ok now you should be able to jog your axises
[22:22:14] <pfred1> you have to be in manual mode though
[22:23:37] <pfred1> jdhnc before their estop in was inverted they couldn't even get out of estop
[22:23:57] <pfred1> talk about a non-starter
[22:25:34] <joe9> pfred1: how do i jog the axis? I am in the "Manual Control [F3]" and i set the axis to X, and the movement to 5mm or such. and when I press "Home Axis", nothing happens.
[22:25:54] <jdhnc> press left/right or up/down
[22:25:58] <pfred1> your display should 0
[22:26:06] <pfred1> that is all home axis does
[22:26:15] <joe9> oh, ok. thanks.
[22:26:28] <pfred1> it doesn't make the machine move ot where it thinks home is
[22:26:38] <jdhnc> if you have no home switches, telling it to home just sets it homed.
[22:26:44] <pfred1> well maybe if you have homing switches it does
[22:27:03] <joe9> oh, ok. thanks. I was expecting something to happen there. that clears it up.
[22:27:07] <joe9> i do not have home switches
[22:27:18] <pfred1> nope just makes the machine think where it is is home
[22:27:28] <pfred1> you can rehome anytime
[22:27:44] <pfred1> but in order to run a program all axises have ot be homed
[22:28:29] <pfred1> I use the mouse I don't know what the keyboard commands are
[22:29:23] <joe9> that is cool. tha axis moves now. jdhnc, pfred1: thanks for your help.
[22:29:36] <pfred1> you're welcome I guess you did it though
[22:29:44] <pfred1> congratulations!
[22:30:02] <alex4nder> next phase: now wut?
[22:30:13] <pfred1> drink heavily
[22:30:17] <alex4nder> yah
[22:30:21] <alex4nder> that's what I'm doing
[22:30:50] <pfred1> that is what i should have done today
[22:30:58] <pfred1> all I did was fix one PC and break another
[22:30:58] <joe9> how do I move the z-axis?
[22:31:13] <pfred1> go to it in the numbers
[22:31:13] <joe9> left/right for x-axis, top/bottom for y-axis.
[22:31:20] <pfred1> then it is the active axis for manual control
[22:31:24] <jdhnc> page-up/down for Z
[22:31:30] <joe9> oh, ok. thanks.
[22:32:01] <pfred1> nothing like getting to play with your new toy
[22:32:12] <jdhnc> sorry, that was too easy.
[22:35:08] <joe9> it is pretty moody though. it works on one press of the Pgup/top/left and moves the axis once and maybe twice and then does not do anything.
[22:35:28] <jdhnc> is it set for distance or continuous?
[22:35:31] <pfred1> you might be at the end of your move
[22:35:43] <pfred1> or yeah you might be moving incrementally
[22:36:15] <pfred1> you can set the rate too your IPS
[22:36:23] <joe9> the distance is set for "continuous"
[22:36:34] <jdhnc> if you homed it at a non-home spot, it will probably only move one direction
[22:36:59] <pfred1> well you can override your limits your soft limits
[22:37:00] <jdhnc> depending on where you told it home was relative
[22:37:27] <jdhnc> bring Z up safe, touch-off, try to run tux
[22:37:48] <pfred1> yeah load a program
[22:38:34] <pfred1> that is when linuxcnc is cool
[22:38:52] <joe9> i can see more axis nut thread on the z-axis, but, pressing Pg-up does not do anything.
[22:39:12] <pfred1> you might be at your soft limit
[22:39:22] <pfred1> rehome
[22:39:53] <pfred1> just that axis
[22:40:20] <pfred1> I fiddles with my soft limits for a while
[22:40:25] <joe9> pfred1: that helped. thanks.
[22:40:28] <pfred1> np
[22:40:37] <joe9> yes, linuxcnc is cool.
[22:40:43] <pfred1> yeah you're going to have to work out what your limits really are
[22:40:52] <joe9> ok, will do.
[22:41:04] <joe9> is it something in the config files created by stepconf?
[22:41:08] <pfred1> yup
[22:41:24] <pfred1> on each axis window it lets you set your limits
[22:42:05] <pfred1> or you could find them in the ini file
[22:42:16] <pfred1> they're just numbers
[22:43:21] <pfred1> I had to set my z axis to a negative number some programs expect it
[22:43:27] <pfred1> or yo uget an out of range error
[22:43:59] <pfred1> there is probably an offset command that fixes that but I've no idea what it is
[22:43:59] <jdhnc> I use 0 as top of work, cuts are negative into the material
[22:45:07] <joe9> with the Z-axis, I see almost 2-3 inches of axis thread on top, but, after re-homing, it still does not move to the top.
[22:45:28] <pfred1> then keep rehoming that axis
[22:45:37] <pfred1> you are hitting your soft limit
[22:45:51] <joe9> i did that. it just does not move up at all.
[22:46:06] <jdhnc> does it move down?
[22:46:27] <pfred1> good question
[22:46:29] <joe9> let me check.
[22:47:03] <joe9> nope, no movement at all.
[22:47:08] <pfred1> not good
[22:47:18] <pfred1> check your wiring
[22:47:40] <pfred1> turn power off
[22:47:52] <pfred1> do not pull a stepper motor wire off with power to your drive
[22:48:01] <jdhnc> did it move when you exercised the axis while running stepconf and setting max speed/accel??
[22:48:34] <joe9> let me test another axis.
[22:49:36] <pfred1> if you ever pull a stepper motor wire off with power to your driver it is almost certain driver death
[22:49:40] <joe9> even the x-axis does not move. when I press the <- / ->, the X in the Preview does move by a very little. 0.033 to 0.019
[22:50:21] <joe9> oh, really. not sure if i did that.
[22:50:28] <pfred1> when yo uwere in stepconf did yo ucheck your axises?
[22:50:42] <pfred1> yeah don't ever pull a motor wire off your drive with it powered up
[22:50:50] <jdhnc> did you set speed/accel in stepconf? Did you move the axis in stepconf?
[22:51:10] <joe9> i did the "test axis" -> run, but, nothing else.
[22:51:27] <jdhnc> did they move then?
[22:51:36] <pfred1> a window pops up in stepconf and it lets you jog each axis
[22:51:49] <joe9> let me do that again. my issue is stepconf does not run on my cpu, have no idea why. everytime I have to use stepconf, I have to use the cd and reboot the linuxcnc pc.
[22:52:06] <joe9> jdhnc: yes, they moved with test axis -> run.
[22:52:16] <joe9> let me go back to stepconf and do that stuff again.
[22:52:28] <jdhnc> I'd suggest installing the livecd alongside your current install.
[22:52:38] <pfred1> yeah I did that a lot of times to get my acceleration and stuff right
[22:52:46] <jdhnc> unless you are just in to self-flagellation
[22:53:00] <joe9> jdhnc: my problem is when I install it, I have latency issues
[22:53:13] <jdhnc> if stepconf doesn't run, who knows what else won't work properly.
[22:53:15] <joe9> jdhnc: something to do with the pata_amd hard disk driver.
[22:53:17] <pfred1> smi?
[22:53:24] <pfred1> ah
[22:53:27] <jdhnc> got a spare SATA drive?
[22:53:46] <jdhnc> $150 and you get a low-latency atom box
[22:53:54] <pfred1> I wonder if they can run a different kernel disk driver
[22:55:15] <pfred1> blacklist that module
[22:56:27] <pfred1> I hear some filesystems can cause latency too the journaling ones
[22:57:12] <joe9> http://codepad.org/W0dSEPfT my latency observations/notes
[22:58:12] <pfred1> joe9 you might be able to get away with using a different kernel driver for your disks
[22:58:36] <joe9> pfred1: tried all that, man. all dead-ends.
[22:58:40] <pfred1> lsmod when you're in the CD
[22:58:50] <joe9> the only thing that worked is using a ramdisk.
[22:58:50] <pfred1> well why does the CD work?
[22:59:01] <joe9> it does not. just the stepconf works.
[22:59:16] <pfred1> then setup your other box to ramdisk
[22:59:25] <pfred1> you can load off the HDD but then ramdisk
[22:59:44] <joe9> that is what I currently have on the linuxcnc pc.
[22:59:50] <pfred1> k
[22:59:55] <joe9> but, in that setup, for some reason stepconf does not work.
[23:00:00] <joe9> have no idea why.
[23:00:03] <pfred1> then rmmod the driver that gives your problems
[23:00:38] <joe9> the rootfs is on that harddisk, so, it is built in.
[23:00:45] <joe9> to the kernel, I mean.
[23:00:59] <pfred1> the kernel loads to memory on boot
[23:01:20] <joe9> actually, yes, you have a point.
[23:01:21] <pfred1> it only goes back to the HDD to get modules
[23:01:41] <pfred1> you could erase your HDD and linux will still run
[23:01:46] * pfred1 has done this ...
[23:03:19] <pfred1> of course when you shut your PC down don't expect linux to run the next time you start it
[23:04:03] <joe9> is this still a good configuration for stepconf for G540?
http://www.onel.se/all_files/gecko_g540.html
[23:04:53] <joe9> i could package that module into the initial ramdisk and then load it, read the ramdisk, load the ramdisk as rootfs, rmmod the module and get over it.
[23:05:07] <pfred1> joe9 I see you played around some with hdparm
[23:05:10] <joe9> but, I am not sure if that module is the cause of stepconf issue from ramdisk.
[23:05:31] <joe9> pfred1: yes, could not change any of the dma settings. they are set in bios.
[23:05:40] <joe9> and changing them in bios was not helping.
[23:05:54] <pfred1> thats funny I trashed one of my HDDs setitng my dma incorrectly with hdparm once
[23:06:03] <joe9> the linux kernel trace points out that the ata functions were somehow blocking the rtapi.
[23:06:10] * pfred1 did not have a 133 system
[23:06:45] <pfred1> but hdparm happily set it for me just the same
[23:07:13] <pfred1> man that disk got trashed in a heartbeat
[23:08:55] <pfred1> what you need to do is diff your kernel config with one that works
[23:09:15] <pfred1> though plain diff won't really tell you
[23:09:28] <pfred1> so you have to grep every parameter
[23:09:42] <ReadError> how well do you think a 2.4ghz intel core2duo w/ 4gb ddr2 would do ?
[23:09:44] <ReadError> capable?
[23:09:48] <ReadError> or should i get the atom
[23:10:00] <jdhnc> depends on the board
[23:10:11] <pfred1> ReadError I was sort of hoping I could say more now but that system is a bust tonight
[23:10:25] * pfred1 has a 2.5 core 2
[23:10:41] <ReadError> how does an atom rape a c2d ?
[23:10:45] <ReadError> sad panda ;*(
[23:10:55] <ReadError> i want one for form factor though too
[23:11:13] <pfred1> latency != performance
[23:11:50] <pfred1> a station wagon will beat a dragster in a cross country race
[23:12:15] <ReadError> well
[23:12:22] <ReadError> i want to do it proper
[23:12:31] <ReadError> so it sounds like i need an atom setup
[23:12:33] <pfred1> because a dragster burns 24 gallons to the mile
[23:12:49] <Jymmm> Unless that Dragster is looking FABULOUS DARLING!
[23:12:56] <alex4nder> ReadError: my machine came out of the dumpster
[23:13:08] <alex4nder> I'm still figuring out what hardware I'm going to build for my 'final' setup.
[23:13:10] <pfred1> Jymmm that'd be a dran queen to you
[23:13:15] <pfred1> drag queen even
[23:13:23] <ReadError> i got tons of harware
[23:13:30] <Jymmm> pfred1: Exactly
[23:13:31] <pfred1> alex4nder I got mine for a dollar
[23:13:32] <ReadError> if i can get a case+mobo+cpu
[23:13:35] <ReadError> i can get something going
[23:13:42] <ReadError> atom
[23:13:49] <alex4nder> pfred1: that's what I'm sayin
[23:13:57] <pfred1> alex4nder the one I'm using now came out of a trash pile
[23:14:00] <joe9> the good news is all the axes test fine with "Test Axis" -> Run.
[23:14:18] <pfred1> joe9 then it is just a setting in your front end
[23:14:29] <alex4nder> what's the issue?
[23:14:33] <pfred1> did you set your limits?
[23:14:49] <pfred1> the stock limits are pretty conservative if memory serves
[23:15:13] <joe9> the Table Travel for my X and Y axis is -1000 to 1000, where as for the Z-axis, it is -100 to 100.
[23:15:16] <joe9> is that ok.
[23:15:22] <pfred1> k
[23:15:24] <ReadError> alex4nder
[23:15:32] <ReadError> you use one of those pendants ?
[23:15:39] <alex4nder> I use a playstation 3 controller
[23:15:41] <ReadError> seems like it would be ideal for manual work
[23:15:43] <ReadError> super low res
[23:15:43] <alex4nder> because I'm a badass.
[23:16:01] <ReadError> well shucks
[23:16:21] <ReadError> i took apart my wii nunchuck already tonight!
[23:16:30] <joe9> pfred1: where do you set the limits? the stepconf did not ask me about it.
[23:16:44] <pfred1> joe9 it is on each axis page
[23:16:56] <pfred1> along with your ratio and stuff
[23:17:20] <alex4nder> joe9: why are you going for metric?
[23:17:26] <joe9> pfred1: i followed these instructions
http://www.onel.se/all_files/gecko_g540.html
[23:17:29] <joe9> to the letter.
[23:17:36] <pfred1> then you should be good
[23:17:40] <joe9> alex4nder: i prefer metric. easier for me.
[23:17:48] <alex4nder> joe9: your entire machine isn't
[23:18:01] <pfred1> yeah table travel is your limits
[23:18:34] <joe9> alex4nder: is that a big deal?
[23:18:40] <alex4nder> it just makes your life harder
[23:18:43] * alex4nder shrugs.
[23:20:16] <alex4nder> your screws are now 7.874015748... turns per centimeter
[23:20:51] <pfred1> good thing the computer has to figure that out
[23:21:13] <pfred1> the only thing I want in grams is coke
[23:21:31] <pfred1> better yet make mine an 8 ball
[23:21:33] <alex4nder> drug dealers and their metric
[23:21:37] <ReadError> pfred1: you want 4 and a baby
[23:21:41] <alex4nder> bunc of bullshit
[23:22:28] <ReadError> alex4nder: taught many folks to do quick conversion for mass
[23:22:55] <joe9> as long as the computer calculates it accurately without error, I am ok with that number.
[23:23:19] <alex4nder> you're a trooper.
[23:23:40] <alex4nder> I had all metric in my garage, but said 'fuck it' when I got a imperial mill and got proper tooling.
[23:23:49] <alex4nder> er an
[23:24:06] <pfred1> alex4nder WTG!
[23:24:23] <alex4nder> my bikes and cars are all japanese.
[23:24:37] <pfred1> when you machine it is all Imperial metric anyways 0.0001
[23:24:42] <alex4nder> yah
[23:25:41] <pfred1> I don't even know where to buy an index of metric drills
[23:25:53] <alex4nder> yah, if you live in the US, it's hard
[23:26:12] <pfred1> I have the numbers the letters and the fractions and a couple odd metric drills
[23:26:28] <pfred1> but I never seen a metric index
[23:26:37] <alex4nder> it's bad enough on the Taig: the spindle side is 1" the collet nut is 25 mm
[23:26:44] <alex4nder> so I have both wrenches.
[23:26:52] <alex4nder> I guess I needed two anyway
[23:27:32] <alex4nder> ... I don't even own any metric endmills
[23:27:40] <pfred1> me either
[23:29:11] <pfred1> to me a half inch drive sounds better than a thirteen mumblesmeter one
[23:29:41] <alex4nder> yah, and 12mm looks slightly small
[23:29:58] <pfred1> metric hardware is for the birds
[23:30:09] <pfred1> SAE baby
[23:31:19] <pfred1> is electrical stuff in foreign countries metric?
[23:31:28] <pfred1> like the screws in their switches?
[23:32:04] <alex4nder> yah
[23:32:07] <pfred1> I've seen hardware that is standard thread but metric fastener
[23:32:08] <alex4nder> they don't mess around with both
[23:32:25] <alex4nder> well, if the target market is english speaking, weird shit can happen
[23:33:38] <alex4nder> also chryslers
[23:33:44] <pfred1> I have a couple metric taps and dies no complete set though
[23:33:54] <alex4nder> and certain fords
[23:34:06] <alex4nder> I think the american car companies are the worst at that kind of mixed measurement garbage
[23:34:20] <pfred1> I think they're all metric now
[23:34:26] <pfred1> I don't work on new cars
[23:34:44] <alex4nder> yah, I own a mitsubishi and a suzuki, I've got no idea.
[23:34:53] <alex4nder> I only knew mechanics for mid 90s cars who hated life.
[23:34:59] <pfred1> I have a volvo and it is all standard
[23:35:02] <alex4nder> s/cars/american cars/
[23:35:19] <pfred1> of course it is a 1966
[23:35:40] <alex4nder> which model?
[23:35:45] <pfred1> P1899S
[23:35:48] <pfred1> 1800
[23:35:58] <pfred1> a Jensen body
[23:36:09] <alex4nder> yah, that's a classic.
[23:36:39] <alex4nder> for a long time, I've wanted an Amazon
[23:36:41] <pfred1> http://a.imageshack.us/img832/1705/p1010023w.jpg
[23:36:50] <alex4nder> cool
[23:36:51] <pfred1> real mags
[23:36:52] <joe9> alex4nder: i took the z-axis too low and now the motor turns, the axis nut turns but the motor and the z-axis does not move.
[23:37:05] <pfred1> magnesium alloy they're not even legal
[23:37:05] <alex4nder> joe9: you'll need to manually assist
[23:37:18] <joe9> alex4nder: oh, how do I do that?
[23:37:18] <alex4nder> pfred1: yah, I had them on my turbo RX-7 when I was younger
[23:37:23] <alex4nder> joe9: with your hand
[23:37:34] <pfred1> alex4nder mine never blew up on me
[23:37:46] <joe9> just push it from the bottom?
[23:37:49] <alex4nder> pfred1: they won't if they're good.. mine came off of an e-prod race car
[23:37:54] <joe9> while doing the jog?
[23:38:04] <alex4nder> yah, just make sure you're going up
[23:38:11] <alex4nder> and nothing else is wrong
[23:38:45] <pfred1> there can be some crashing when you're getting started
[23:39:27] <alex4nder> just wait until you do something really dumb, like jam the endmill into the table
[23:39:36] <alex4nder> or forget to turn the spindle on and start your program
[23:39:56] <pfred1> this is why it takes a while to et your limits you want maximum size work envelope but don't want problems
[23:41:16] <pfred1> alex4nder in another life my car was an IMSA track car
[23:41:22] <alex4nder> nice
[23:41:31] <pfred1> yeah it has some crazy machine work
[23:41:50] <pfred1> like the back of the flywheel is cut out
[23:44:45] <joe9> alex4nder: thanks, got it.
[23:46:28] <alex4nder> joe9: cool
[23:47:21] <joe9> so, what are the dumb things to watch out for?
[23:48:24] <pfred1> joe9 get some styrofoam and have at it
[23:49:23] <alex4nder> joe9: you'll find out as you do them
[23:49:31] <alex4nder> unfortunately
[23:49:56] <alex4nder> joe9: also if you plan on doing precision work with PCBs, you need to get proper measurement tools and learn how to use them
[23:50:19] <pfred1> instrumentation is a place to invest
[23:51:07] <joe9> alex4nder: pfred1 what do you recommend?
[23:51:26] <pfred1> I use the 29.99 digital calipers from harbor freight
[23:51:33] <joe9> yes, i have that.
[23:51:34] <pfred1> don't get the silver one get the black one
[23:51:51] <pfred1> the one with auto off
[23:52:03] <pfred1> not that the auto off is the feature that makes it better
[23:52:08] <alex4nder> you'll probably want a dial test indicator, a dial indicator, and various measure of positioning them
[23:52:24] <joe9> yes, that is what i have. pfred1, the black one.
[23:52:35] <pfred1> yeah i have both the silver one is trash
[23:52:48] <joe9> alex4nder: yes, I have the dial indicator from HF with the magnetic base/stand.
[23:53:01] <alex4nder> : |
[23:53:03] <pfred1> the rod one? or the lever one
[23:53:07] <alex4nder> alright.
[23:53:25] <joe9> what is a "dial test indicator"?
[23:53:31] <joe9> i have the dial indicator.
[23:53:35] <pfred1> yeah you know how to indicate work on your table?
[23:54:04] <alex4nder> joe9: for making relative measurements, they usually are higher precision
[23:54:27] <alex4nder> mine is graduated in .0005"
[23:54:27] <pfred1> I have both I only use the 1" travel one
[23:54:27] <joe9> I need that. I do not have that.
[23:54:40] <alex4nder> joe9: but you'll want metric
[23:54:41] <joe9> do you mean a "screw gauge"?
[23:54:47] <pfred1> I figure if i get it to 0.001 close enough
[23:54:59] <joe9> let me google up on it.
[23:55:02] <joe9> thanks for the tip.
[23:55:07] <joe9> any other suggestions, please?
[23:55:33] <pfred1> how you hold your work down?
[23:55:52] <joe9> the hands from Radioshack.
[23:55:58] <pfred1> what?
[23:56:05] <joe9> which is not good. would love something better.
[23:56:11] <pfred1> you need something better than that
[23:56:14] <joe9> oh, you mean the work on the taig.
[23:56:27] <joe9> i bought those T-nuts from a2zcorp
[23:56:28] <pfred1> yes hold downs or a vise
[23:56:39] <pfred1> well you need somethng for the t nuts
[23:56:39] <joe9> and, they gave a vise with the taig.
[23:56:40] <alex4nder> joe9: start by making a fixture to hold PCBs
[23:56:47] <alex4nder> that'll give you something to think about
[23:56:56] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[23:57:01] <alex4nder> because CNC doesn't make it easier to make stuff, it just makes it take less time and skill
[23:57:14] <alex4nder> well s/easier/simpler/
[23:57:25] <alex4nder> the point is, it doesn't make the work go away
[23:57:31] <pfred1> unless you're milling metal yo ucan get away with some pretty shafty setups
[23:58:08] <pfred1> when you try to do metal though you'd better hold that stuff like it is the grip of death
[23:58:24] <alex4nder> yah, unless you like messed up parts and wasted stock
[23:58:33] <pfred1> I've done plenty of setups I thought was rigid enough
[23:58:41] <pfred1> until cutter hit the work
[23:58:57] <pfred1> then I wished I'd done something a bit more substantial
[23:59:50] <pfred1> so the best advise is go through the motions with softer materials
