#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-05

[00:46:19] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[00:46:23] <djdelorie> morning
[00:46:52] <djdelorie> cradek, ssi: plots of desired-vs-actual, with lag, for various FF1's, at http://www.delorie.com/cnc/ff1/
[00:47:56] <djdelorie> note: this is being driven by a step generator, not axis, so infinite acceleration :-P
[00:48:35] <djdelorie> also, position/lag numbers are based on 4000 counts per rotation
[00:48:35] <ssi> looking better
[00:48:58] <djdelorie> it does have some oscillations even at constant velocity, though.
[00:49:46] <djdelorie> the top graph shows the two position traces better; there's enough lag that the green and red traces are separate
[00:49:59] <djdelorie> er, 0% graph that is
[00:51:13] <djdelorie> actually, that ripple seems to correspond to rotor position somewhat
[00:51:29] <djdelorie> (in the 0% case at least)
[00:55:00] <djdelorie> example of too-fast step pulses: http://www.delorie.com/cnc/ff1/too-fast.html
[01:15:02] <alex4nder> yoh
[01:15:11] <djdelorie> yoh yoh!
[01:15:19] <alex4nder> how's it?
[01:16:54] <djdelorie> in theory, good. Still need to update the machine with my findings
[01:18:05] <alex4nder> I need to get off my ass and poor the concrete for my mill base.
[01:18:37] <djdelorie> that's some serious mass
[01:18:50] <djdelorie> my wood lathe has a couple big bags of marble chips on the bottom shelf
[01:23:47] <alex4nder> yah, it's an experiment... ~200 lbs.
[01:24:04] <djdelorie> the base, or the whole thing?
[01:24:17] <djdelorie> marble chips are reversible... ;-)
[01:24:18] <alex4nder> just he base
[01:24:27] <alex4nder> you can't bolt to marble chips. ;)
[01:24:44] <alex4nder> this is more a basin for coolant capture anyway
[01:24:44] <djdelorie> I don't think that would make any difference on my lathe, it's well over 1000 lbs on its own
[01:24:48] <djdelorie> no, you fill the base with them
[01:25:02] <djdelorie> assuming there's a big chunk of room in there
[01:25:03] <alex4nder> yah, this taig mill is < 100 lbs.
[01:25:08] <alex4nder> and there's no 'base'
[01:25:15] <alex4nder> it's a small thing
[01:25:21] <djdelorie> ah, one of those
[01:25:53] <djdelorie> you could put the bags of marble *on* the mill. At least, when your friends with bigger mills visit, so you won't be embarassed by the itty bitty mill ;-)
[01:26:22] <djdelorie> in woodworking circles, the general advice is, "if you need that much extra mass, you really need a bigger lathe"
[01:27:55] <alex4nder> mills don't really have that issue anyway, their structure is all self contained.
[01:28:46] <alex4nder> I could have made the concrete thinner, but 2" walls makes the casting easier.
[01:29:10] <djdelorie> yeah, and typically the big chunk of unbalanced metal isn't the moving part
[01:29:30] <alex4nder> yah exactly
[01:29:41] <djdelorie> check my math - is an acceleration of 250,000 RPM/sec seem right for a BLDC motor?
[01:30:38] <alex4nder> I'm not the one to ask, but that seems high.
[01:31:01] <djdelorie> there's little mass on the screw, though, it's just the test jig on my desk
[01:31:51] <djdelorie> the graphs say it comes up to speed (1100 RPM) in about 0.014 seconds - 78k rpm/sec ?
[01:32:18] <alex4nder> yup
[01:32:43] <djdelorie> I guess I'll have to figure out how to test each axis in place
[01:33:00] <alex4nder> you have encoders/tachs on these things?
[01:33:05] <djdelorie> encoders
[01:33:10] <alex4nder> werd
[01:33:24] <djdelorie> the MCU driving it has hardware support for speed/position tracking for quadrature encoders
[01:33:42] <djdelorie> it spits the data out the serial port
[01:33:55] <djdelorie> I capture it on the pc to stare at it
[01:34:01] <alex4nder> nice, did you build the board yourself?
[01:34:05] <alex4nder> boards
[01:34:16] <djdelorie> yup http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[01:34:38] <djdelorie> they're three phase brushless DC motors, rated at 160 volts, with 1000 line encoders and hall sensors
[01:35:04] <djdelorie> my power supply only goes to 120 volts, and the test jig runs of five 12v batteries (60v)
[01:35:23] <Loetmichel> nice
[01:35:39] <djdelorie> all surplus, except the boards
[01:35:45] <alex4nder> looks great
[01:36:00] <Loetmichel> but a prototype ruunning at (supposedly) very current-capable lead batterys?
[01:36:04] <Loetmichel> bold...
[01:36:14] <Loetmichel> have you got a fuse in it?
[01:36:16] <Loetmichel> ;-)=
[01:36:22] <djdelorie> yeah, five of the UPS type sealed batteries
[01:36:46] <djdelorie> no, but the board has current measuring and limiting, and the wires are just clipped on so I can yank them off easily
[01:36:52] <djdelorie> the cnc machine has a fuse :-)
[01:38:29] <djdelorie> so these motors spec like they're 1/3 HP, or 2 amps at 120 volts. I limit them to 2.5 amps in software, or 0.4 HP
[01:39:17] <djdelorie> but they allow 7 amps intermittent, assuming my power supply can do that, or just over 1 HP
[01:39:44] <djdelorie> YET - its still only 350 oz-in intermittent, or 100 oz-in continuous, about the same as a $30 stepper :-P
[01:41:26] <djdelorie> the only real difference is that you get that torque at higher RPMs, and of course the encoder gives better precision *if* you can get the software PID right :-P
[01:41:48] <djdelorie> there's a bunch of trade-offs
[01:50:01] <Loetmichel> *ouch* ... SECOND time a dremel-cut-off M3 screw has hoppet into my shirt...
[01:50:05] <Loetmichel> *wave*
[01:50:17] <Loetmichel> *smell oft burning hair*
[01:50:24] <Loetmichel> hopped
[01:51:38] <djdelorie> learn to hold the dremel in your other hand, so screws go the other way?
[01:53:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
[01:53:36] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: already done the job. were only 20 screw to shorten
[01:53:40] <Loetmichel> +s
[01:53:54] <Loetmichel> oh, djdelorie was meant
[01:54:07] <Loetmichel> moin DJ9DJ
[01:54:08] <DJ9DJ> hi Loetmichel :)
[01:54:12] <djdelorie> too many DJ's ?
[01:54:15] <DJ9DJ> hrhr :D
[01:54:31] <DJ9DJ> hi djdelorie
[01:54:41] <djdelorie> hi
[01:55:16] <djdelorie> alex4nder: fixed a bug in the streaming software, peak kRPM/sec is reporting at 110 kRPM/sec
[01:55:28] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: i should wear a womens bluse instaeds the shirt, so the Button strip is the other way round ;-)
[01:55:36] <Loetmichel> or learn to be lefthanded ;-)
[01:55:43] <Loetmichel> grrr
[01:55:44] * DJ9DJ is lefthanded
[01:55:46] <DJ9DJ> :)
[01:55:47] <djdelorie> I have a leather apron in my shop for such occasions
[01:55:49] <Loetmichel> djdelorie
[01:56:38] <djdelorie> woodworking catalogs sell special turning aprons for women, to protect "that extra pocket women have" :-)
[01:56:48] <djdelorie> it's an apron that goes all the way up to a turtleneck
[01:57:13] <DJ9DJ> hihi
[02:00:45] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[02:00:58] <Loetmichel> whats that called in english?
[02:01:00] <Loetmichel> creveage
[02:01:05] <Loetmichel> ?
[02:01:09] <Loetmichel> -r+l
[02:01:34] <djdelorie> yes
[02:02:37] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/cnc/lag-rpm-acc.png
[02:03:45] <djdelorie> much cleaner traces on that one
[02:05:47] <alex4nder> djdelorie: cool
[02:06:27] <djdelorie> but which "max acceleration" is the one axis wants?
[02:08:18] <Jymmm> Heh, the bottom one looks like cartoon character that spun out the carpet
[02:08:35] <Jymmm> befoe getting traction
[02:10:09] <alex4nder> djdelorie: you mean the .ini max accel?
[02:10:19] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: the one slightly under the max physical acceleration of the drive train i wpuld presume ;-)
[02:10:36] <djdelorie> alex4nder: yes
[02:11:18] <djdelorie> bldc motors have another derivative past acceleration, since you have to build up the magnetic field first before you hit max accel
[02:11:32] <alex4nder> djdelorie: in my setup it's the final max accel of the table
[02:12:56] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: than i would set the linuxcnc acc ti the value of the drives can acieve from compete stop
[02:12:59] <Loetmichel> +l
[02:13:08] <Loetmichel> +h
[02:13:11] <djdelorie> even conservatively, it's getting to 1100 RPM in 0.02 seconds, that's 118 in/sec/sec in the .init
[02:13:19] <Loetmichel> (my english has seen better times :-(
[02:14:16] <djdelorie> and that's the *slow* axis
[02:14:32] <djdelorie> but as I said, I need to measure these in the machine and get real-er values
[02:14:55] <alex4nder> yah, you want max units / sec / sec
[02:15:00] <alex4nder> of the axis
[02:17:04] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: its even more complicated with some (metal) mass on the drives
[02:17:27] <Loetmichel> the no load acc is something completlay different
[02:17:33] <djdelorie> I'm hoping the graph looks remarkably similar :-)
[02:17:37] <Loetmichel> -ay+ey
[02:24:03] <djdelorie> enough for me tonight. bedtime! Back tomorrow :-)
[02:24:15] <Jymmm> try hours / hours next time too
[02:24:26] <djdelorie> ?
[02:24:36] <Jymmm> then lightyears^2 AND BEYOND!
[02:25:04] <Jymmm> djdelorie: G'night =)
[02:26:08] <Jymmm> djdelorie: It's a joke, you'll get it in the morning =)
[02:26:18] <djdelorie> technically, it's already morning here...
[02:26:34] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Fine, in the afternoon then
[02:26:53] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Or more specifically, after REM sleep
[02:27:23] <Jymmm> djdelorie: don't make me haunt your dreams now ;)
[02:30:06] <Jymmm> djdelorie: For example "I just used 2 cords worth of Kauri in the fireplace"
[03:11:53] <mk0> in 21 days 12.04 will be released. won'tl it be kind of reasonable to release 2.5.0 with 12.04?
[03:15:10] <Valen> dunno if people have it running on it yet
[03:16:30] <Jymmm> mk0: So, you want to beta bitch TWO things at the same time?
[03:16:44] * Valen nominates mk0 for it
[03:16:54] * Jymmm seconds the motion
[03:17:07] <Valen> tbh i'll stick with 10.04, 12.04 has 0 benifit that i've seen
[03:17:13] <Valen> doubly so for EMC
[03:17:53] <Jymmm> mk0: If you choose to live on the bleeding edge, you surely WILL get cut!
[03:18:11] <Jymmm> I have the scars to prove it
[03:18:24] <mhaberler> tick appropriate box: http://mah.priv.at/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=92177
[03:19:20] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Where's the "I LUV YOU MAN" as I'm so drunk checkbox
[03:19:46] <mhaberler> darn..
[03:21:02] <Jymmm> There was a drunk driver that crashed so bad the ONLY reason he survived is he was so drunk that it made his body limber enough to absorb the impact of the crash (seriously).
[03:21:05] <mhaberler> but you can always test:
[03:21:05] <mhaberler> http://mah.priv.at/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=35479
[03:27:27] <mk0> holy cow, i'm just interested
[03:30:11] <Jymmm> In which?
[03:34:41] <Valen> mk0: don't mind us, we are just old and grumpy ;->
[03:35:00] <Jymmm> Valen: speak for yourself you old bat!
[03:35:06] <mk0> i don't )) i/m not first day here
[03:35:14] <Valen> shut up shut up i'm not old ;-p
[03:35:45] <Jymmm> Valen: Dont make me cut off one leg of your walker now!
[03:36:22] <Valen> Jymmm: you know how you have been "shrinking" for years? I've been putting packers under your walker and all your furniture for years!
[03:37:15] <Jymmm> Valen: I havne't been shrinking at all tyvm, you musta confused me with your geriatrics doctor
[03:37:57] <Valen> my doctors not a geriatric!
[03:38:17] <Jymmm> Valen: Plural doctors == Ancient
[03:38:38] <Jymmm> Valen: no, his patient is!
[03:39:47] <Valen> shut up you, get off my lawn
[03:40:31] <Jymmm> Valen: ya old geezer, you can't even see I'm on your computer screen, not your lawn!
[03:41:06] <Valen> my screen is green, the lawn is green whats the difference!
[03:41:17] <Jymmm> Valen: in your head
[03:41:33] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_IIe
[03:41:39] <Jymmm> Valen: Isn't it time for your alheinerzers medicine?
[03:43:07] <Jymmm> Is there any such "packing" machine that would pack wadding into a rifle barrel or tube?
[03:43:33] <KimK> mk0: Hi, welcome back. The thing is, people had been waiting for 2.5.0 for quite a while now already (a year?), and even though 12.04 is nearby, the developers need 12.04 to be final, plus maybe a couple more months(?) on top of that, to develop a new kernel, work out the bugs, test, package, etc. So they decided to just release 2.5.0 now, and then they can take their time with 12.04. Which I know I would prefer. Hope that helps.
[03:43:40] * Valen hands Jymmm some wadding and a rod
[03:44:24] <Jymmm> Valen: Already doing that, would like to automate it. I just didn't know if such a thing existed already.
[03:45:22] <Valen> how many do you plan on doing?
[03:46:15] <mk0> KimK i am using 2.5.0 for a year maybe. not stable, of course. git
[03:46:44] <Jymmm> Valen: I'd like to do 40 plus per minute
[03:47:45] <Jymmm> Valen: but even 25/minute would do.
[03:47:49] <Loetmichel> KimK: in addition: who wants to have UbuntuONe and Gnome3?
[03:48:43] <Jymmm> Valen: Hell, I'd be happy with 15/minute
[03:49:15] <KimK> mk0: Great, thanks for helping test. I don't think a final decision will be made until Ubuntu/Xubuntu/etc. are all final. Who knows, they may elect not to use Ubuntu 12.04 (due to Unity and other Ubuntu shenanigans), and use instead some very similar distro (Xubuntu 12.04?)
[03:49:40] <Valen> your biggest issue would probably be getting the wadding suitably prepared
[03:49:48] <KimK> Loetmichel: Hi, yes, who knows?
[03:50:03] <Jymmm> Valen: Yeah, and that for the most part isn't gonna happen.
[03:50:29] <Loetmichel> KimK: on a CNC machine?
[03:50:31] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[03:50:41] <mk0> Loetmichel, ? classic gnome 3 is not boring
[03:50:47] <KimK> mk0: What's your machine?
[03:51:12] <Loetmichel> mk0: not boring. demanding
[03:51:15] <Valen> whats the whole problem? IE what are you trying to do?
[03:51:15] <mk0> KimK, emm let me remember
[03:51:23] <Valen> gnome 3 sucks
[03:51:28] <Valen> unity sucks
[03:51:33] <Loetmichel> and shitty usage compared to Gnome 2
[03:51:38] <Valen> rather
[03:51:45] <Jymmm> Valen: doing it manually is very time consuming
[03:51:56] <Valen> yeah but 40 a minute?
[03:52:00] <Loetmichel> oh yes, s/ ubuntuone/unity above ;-)=
[03:52:03] <Valen> thats one a second or so
[03:52:29] <mk0> KimK, oh, you mean machine, not pc. we made it ourselves
[03:52:41] <Jymmm> Valen: Like I said, 15/min would be ok too. One every 4s
[03:52:57] <Jymmm> Valen: but fully hands off.
[03:53:02] <Valen> but what do you want it for?
[03:53:10] <Valen> war re-enactors or something?
[03:53:17] <Jymmm> to pack wadding into tubes
[03:53:30] <Valen> for the purpose of?
[03:53:42] <Jymmm> repacking
[03:53:51] <Valen> brass shells?
[03:53:54] <Jymmm> repackaging
[03:53:56] <Jymmm> no
[03:54:20] <Jymmm> for repackaging
[03:55:24] <Valen> so the end result is tubes of wadding?
[03:55:32] <Jymmm> yep
[03:55:55] <Valen> I'd just make the wadding with a binder then machine it
[03:56:11] <Jymmm> yeah, not gonna hapen.
[03:56:27] <Valen> the end result for a rifle or for something else?
[03:56:36] <Jymmm> something else
[03:57:48] <Valen> the big secret huh ;->
[03:58:04] <Jymmm> Valen: Nosey fucker, huh? lol =)
[03:58:13] <Loetmichel> hihi
[03:58:25] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: waht material is the wadding?
[03:58:27] <Loetmichel> felt?
[03:58:37] <Valen> if you want help solving a problem, you have to define the whole problem, often the best solution is off to the left somewhere
[03:58:42] <Jymmm> Valen: I tell ya what.... You come up with a viable 15/min hands odd solution, I'll give you all the details =)
[03:58:48] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: cotton
[03:58:59] <KimK> Goodnight all
[03:59:07] <Jymmm> Valen: No, yoou're just curious as all hell =)
[03:59:12] <Jymmm> KimK: G'Night
[03:59:22] <Valen> no not really its just how i work
[03:59:39] <Valen> if something is hard to do, i try to find a way to solve the problem without doing it
[03:59:55] <Jymmm> Valen: No, you know what cotton is, you know what wadding is, you know what a tube is.
[03:59:55] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: readily stenciled waddings or a sheet of cotten to be formed?
[04:00:15] <Valen> some machine wouldn't be too hard to devise using a spool of cotton wadding
[04:00:20] <Valen> lots of little fiddly bits
[04:00:38] <Valen> solutions to a problem given in isolation are often sub optimal
[04:00:42] <Jymmm> But this is being repackaged, not in "raw" or bulk form.
[04:00:43] <Loetmichel> Valen: not at all.
[04:01:01] <Valen> so make it into a bulk form
[04:01:16] <Valen> pour it into a hopper, ram it into a block then cut to size
[04:01:17] <Loetmichel> IF the material is a big spool or a sheet it would be simple to punch it right into the tube ;-)
[04:01:26] <Jymmm> This isn't a manufacturing process, it's a repackaging one.
[04:01:33] <Loetmichel> with a press and a punch tool
[04:01:55] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: yes, i know
[04:02:08] <Loetmichel> nut it would be easyier if it were the manufactruring ;-)
[04:02:16] <Loetmichel> but easier
[04:02:32] <Valen> depends on what the existing package is i guess
[04:02:41] <Valen> it could be in a tube thats slightly too small for all we know
[04:03:56] <Jymmm> I did say PACKED, not placed in tubes. It's a snug fit
[04:04:16] <Valen> you said repacked
[04:04:31] <Jymmm> fair enough
[04:04:39] <Valen> to me that means taken out of one thing and put into another
[04:04:45] <Jymmm> that too
[04:04:46] <Valen> you havent said what the first thing is
[04:04:56] <Jymmm> loose
[04:05:12] <Jymmm> or placed in a hopper, or whatever
[04:07:23] <Loetmichel> can you show me some photos of original package, wadding and desired end state?
[04:07:37] <Valen> Loetmichel: thats cheating
[04:07:43] <Valen> you know what cotton is after all ;-P
[04:07:57] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: what Valen said!
[04:08:28] <Jymmm> I dont have any pics anyway
[04:08:54] <Jymmm> What I was asking is such a thing existed
[04:09:03] <Jymmm> ^if
[04:12:03] <Valen> it could well, but without knowing anything other than "cotton" and "tube" its kinda hard to help
[04:12:17] <Valen> you could be talking 16 pound bags for all i know ;-P
[04:13:51] <Jymmm> ok, np.
[04:13:55] <Jymmm> thanks
[05:40:47] <mazafaka> hello, hello
[05:42:35] <mazafaka> My topic 'what do you change in Russian 2-stroke bikes?' has more than 40 answers where people call it shit because of its design but say they did many things on or with them when they were younger.
[06:15:46] <awallin> 3-phase bike is the modern alternative...
[08:59:22] <mazafaka> awallin: How to buy one? or a complete kit instead of regular engine and gas tank?
[09:00:11] <mazafaka> Can I buy something for less than 700 USD with delivery?
[09:34:44] <awallin> mazafaka: sorry I don't know much about e-bikes..
[09:35:46] <mazafaka> that's why they're of not wide use yet
[09:36:55] <kb8wmc> what is an e-bike?
[09:37:25] <A1Sheds> 3-phase? How long is the power cord?
[09:38:31] <kb8wmc> aha, found it....
[09:41:49] <mazafaka> power cord is rather hidden
[09:44:24] <joe9> alex4nder: i notice this on my taig. not sure if that is the way it is supposed to work.
[09:45:10] <joe9> on each axis, there is the locking nut at the end, next is the cylinder
[09:45:16] <joe9> with 4 holes to the sid
[09:45:19] <joe9> side.
[09:45:32] <joe9> and, next to that is the dial
[09:45:49] <joe9> i notice that on the x and y axis, when I move the dial the axis moves forward or backward
[09:46:15] <joe9> but, on the z-axis, I notice that when I rotate the dial, it does not move the axis. It moves as if the dial itself is rotating
[09:46:19] <joe9> not the axis.
[09:46:23] <joe9> does that make sense?
[09:46:32] <joe9> is that how it is supposed to work?
[09:55:06] <joe9> what is the safest lubricant to use? I use WD-40. but, not sure of the long term health effects of it. Any thoughts, please?
[09:55:18] <joe9> is there a safer lubricant around?
[09:55:50] <JT-Shop> WD40 is not a lubricant
[09:56:11] <joe9> i just used it on my taig. bad idea?
[09:56:20] <joe9> that is what it said on its' packaging.
[09:56:39] <JT-Shop> Water Displacer #40 is the whole name
[09:56:53] <JT-Shop> good for clean up sometimes
[09:56:54] <joe9> oh, really. did not know that.
[09:57:02] <joe9> what about lithium grease?
[09:57:12] <JT-Shop> for?
[09:57:18] <joe9> lubricating the taig
[09:57:24] <JT-Shop> what part?
[09:57:35] <JT-Shop> the ways use way oil
[09:57:48] <joe9> just for maintenance around the axis screws.
[09:58:04] <JT-Shop> yea, grease is good there
[09:58:47] <joe9> is "way oil" just one generic item. or, is there a better environmentally safe version out there?
[09:59:17] <joe9> in the video, the guy was using mobil oil.
[09:59:46] <joe9> i came across a lubricant that does not attract/stick dust.
[09:59:55] <joe9> do not remember the name of it now.
[10:00:07] <JT-Shop> that's what I use Mobil Way Oil Medium
[10:00:15] <joe9> oh, ok. thanks.
[10:00:25] <joe9> so, both grease + mobil way oil?
[10:00:32] <joe9> for different parts, ofcourse.
[10:00:33] <JT-Shop> or known as Vactra #2 might be spelled wrong...
[10:00:40] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[10:04:24] <ssi> vactra #2 is the stuff
[10:04:35] <joe9> "dry lubricant" called lotion-T
[10:04:45] <joe9> is supposedly good and does not attract dust.
[10:04:56] <joe9> anyone used that? where do you buy it?
[10:05:18] <ssi> I need to find some grease to use on the gears of my resolver/tach drive
[10:07:16] <JT-Shop> sticky gear grease?
[10:07:22] <joe9> "Boeshield T9"
[10:07:29] <ssi> some kind of light moly grease
[10:07:32] <joe9> http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/Main/Articles/Drill_Press_Maintenance_Skill_Builder_Power_Tool_T_8549.aspx
[10:08:41] <joe9> sears sells it.
[10:09:47] * JT-Shop heads to town
[10:11:09] <ReadError> joe9: the video i seen says taig recommends mobil1
[10:11:33] <ssi> JT-Shop: headed to sears? :D
[10:11:46] <joe9> i saw that. the problem with any oil/liquid based lubricant (imho) is that it will attract dust.
[10:11:55] <JT-Shop> no, we only have a mini sears... going to the other shop
[10:12:03] <joe9> i read that a "dry lubricant" does not do that.
[10:12:18] <joe9> hence, wanted to check if anyone has any experiences with that stuff.
[10:13:05] <JT-Shop> we all use proper way lube which washes the dust off and protects the ways when used properly
[10:17:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Sounds like some geriatric type lubricant
[10:18:45] <joe9> Jymmm: good or bad?
[10:20:02] <Jymmm> joe9: Depends on if you have an issue with Granny getting her groove on
[10:25:43] <Jymmm> Yahoo to layoff 2K today
[10:27:18] <skunkworks> thought that was google...
[10:28:20] <Jymmm> http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20120405/BUSINESS/304050017/Yahoo-lay-off-14-its-work-force
[10:36:53] <alex4nder> hey
[10:37:04] <Jymmm> wheat
[10:38:33] <joe9> http://codepad.org/tfXO4RvK alex4nder i sent this to taigtools yahoogroup and a person responded saying that I should check the cartertools website about "the axis endplates and bearings are assembled"
[10:38:45] <joe9> alex4nder: wanted to check if you noticed the issue too?
[10:39:04] <awallin> is anyone else getting inverted colors (e.g. on youtube) with the latest flash-plugin? (I'm on ubuntu 11.10 with chrome/ff and nvidia graphics)
[10:39:14] <joe9> http://codepad.org/XOb2p1tE alex4nder the response I received.
[10:40:29] <joe9> http://www.cartertools.com/millbear.html is probably what I need.
[10:41:42] <alex4nder> joe9: you mean the graduated dial with position markings?
[10:41:46] <joe9> yes.
[10:41:57] <joe9> when I rotate that the axis moves on X and Y
[10:41:59] <joe9> but, not on Z
[10:42:04] <alex4nder> turn it harder
[10:42:09] <alex4nder> it isn't supposed to turn the axis
[10:42:25] <alex4nder> it's how you set zero when you're milling manually.
[10:43:18] <alex4nder> it's a friction fit
[10:44:35] <joe9> alex4nder: that does not make sense to me? "turn it harder" ? turn what harder? if i turn the "graduated dial", it turns the axis on X and Y.
[10:44:38] <joe9> but, not on Z.
[10:44:45] <joe9> http://www.cartertools.com/millbear.html
[10:44:48] <alex4nder> dude
[10:44:56] <alex4nder> I've rebuilt those bearings many times.
[10:45:10] <alex4nder> the dial isn't hard-attached to the screw.
[10:45:48] <alex4nder> if you grab onto the coupler nut with a pair of cushioned locking pliers, and then try to turn the dial without the screw turning, the dial will rotate.
[10:45:53] <joe9> oh, ok. got it. so, the it is probably too hard on the X and Y axis then.
[10:46:12] <alex4nder> possibly, or the friction fit is too tight because your machine is brand new
[10:46:18] <alex4nder> and it just needs to be used
[10:46:28] <joe9> should I do something about it? or, just ignore it?
[10:46:50] <alex4nder> did you attach the locking nut yourself, or did it come installed?
[10:46:55] <joe9> it came installed.
[10:47:06] <joe9> i did not touch anything other than putting the z-assembly.
[10:47:19] <joe9> and moving the axes
[10:47:25] <alex4nder> ok, it's probably fine then.. the only issue is that over torquing the locking not can over preload the bearing
[10:47:40] <alex4nder> er locking nut
[10:48:09] <ReadError> alex4nder: did you use mobil1 ?
[10:48:19] <alex4nder> ReadError: as a way oil?
[10:48:23] <ReadError> yessir
[10:48:34] <ReadError> thats what deepgroove says taig recommends
[10:48:37] <alex4nder> no, I use mobil's way oil 'vactra'
[10:48:41] <ReadError> i might get some flux bottles
[10:48:50] <ReadError> seems like they would be excellent applicators
[10:48:51] <alex4nder> and I put it in a chef's dripper bottle
[10:49:17] <joe9> alex4nder: what do you think of this? http://www.sears.com/boeshield-t-9-rust-protection-cleaner/p-00928468000P?currentProductTitle=boeshield-t-9-rust-protection-cleaner&partNumber=00928468000P&storeId=10153&isSEOCanonURL=true&PRODUCT_TITLE_BRAND=boeshield-t-9-rust-protection-cleaner&catalogId=12605&catgroupId=00928468000P&pageInd=product&i_cntr=1333637928890
[10:49:19] <alex4nder> I think you'll want a bigger nozzle than a flux dripper, but it's worth a try.
[10:49:32] <joe9> http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/Main/Articles/Drill_Press_Maintenance_Skill_Builder_Power_Tool_T_8549.aspx gave me that idea.
[10:49:37] <alex4nder> joe9: as what?
[10:49:44] <joe9> as the lubricant
[10:50:07] <joe9> it is a drying lubricant
[10:50:17] <joe9> dust does not stick to it.
[10:50:32] <joe9> so, i am thinking that it is a good idea to use it..
[10:50:40] <alex4nder> I'm thinking you're over thinking. ;)
[10:50:46] <alex4nder> dust is the least of your worries
[10:51:03] <alex4nder> for tooling that i don't want to rust, I use LPS-3
[10:51:27] <alex4nder> for lubrication, I think using way oil makes sense if you can get it
[10:51:36] <alex4nder> if not, then ATF or mobil1
[10:51:40] <joe9> alex4nder: ok, thanks.
[10:52:21] <alex4nder> joe9: if you put some light oil on the Z axis ways you're going to find rubbing and problems crop up
[10:52:34] <alex4nder> you want a thick oil that is designed for clinging to vertical ways
[10:53:27] <joe9> ok, thanks a lot. "vactra #2" seems to be highly recommended.
[10:53:52] <alex4nder> yes it is
[10:54:14] <joe9> where do you get it? auto parts store?
[10:54:31] <alex4nder> no, machinists supply shop
[10:54:38] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[10:54:50] <alex4nder> unfortunately it comes in 5 galloon tubs usually
[10:55:14] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/Felt-Wiper-Combo-South-Lathe/dp/B0052MW2W0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1333640710&sr=1-1
[10:55:15] <ve7it> joe9, chainsaw bar lube is not bad if you cant find anything else locally
[10:55:15] <ReadError> bam
[11:03:36] <ssi> can get vactra #2 in gallon jugs from mcmaster in the US
[11:15:23] <ReadError> what in the world would i do with a gallon of lube ;o
[11:31:01] <ve7it> have a party
[11:31:39] <ReadError> it has been many years since my last KY wrestling match...
[11:47:53] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:48:30] <Loetmichel> ReadError: a gallon of bed way lube?
[11:48:43] <Loetmichel> will go through in about a year ;-)
[11:49:48] <mozmck1> joe9: I've used the boeshield t-9 for rust protection, and it worked, but not as well as Johnson paste wax.
[11:50:19] <ReadError> is the taig capable of cutting steel if i go slow?
[11:50:27] <ReadError> my dad has gotten into knife making or w/e
[11:50:32] <ReadError> and i could cut him some blanks
[11:56:32] <joe9> mozmck1: thanks. let me check on "Johnson Paste wax". were you using it as a lubricant or only for rust protection?
[11:57:02] <mozmck1> Just rust protection - on table saw, lathe bed etc.
[11:58:41] <joe9> alex4nder: do i have to worry about nut backlash with a new machine?
[11:59:30] <ReadError> joe9: did you equip yours with anti backlast?
[12:01:24] <joe9> no, i did not. is there something like that?
[12:01:47] <ReadError> hmm i know they sell them
[12:04:54] <joe9> mozmck1: have you tried it as a lubricant? http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/Main/Articles/Drill_Press_Maintenance_Skill_Builder_Power_Tool_T_8549.aspx recommends that as a lubricant for a drill press.
[12:07:20] <mozmck1> No I haven't. Might be fine, but that stuff is pretty expensive for that.
[12:21:20] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:22:14] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: did the storms hit you
[12:36:16] <joe9> alex4nder: how do you get the 1/16 inch between the motor and the axis end? Does it have to be exact?
[12:36:55] <ReadError> feeler guage?
[12:39:57] <alex4nder> joe9: no
[12:40:05] <alex4nder> just approximate it
[12:40:24] <alex4nder> it's just to allow enough slop to deal with the inherent alignment issues
[13:00:08] <joe9> alex4nder: ok, thanks.
[13:04:24] <djdelorie> KimK: my torrent seeder finally sent out one cd's worth of data, is the torrent not widely advertised?
[13:14:27] <IchGuckLive> for all that like foamcutting i uploaded the making of a nice porta ,Casel to youtube -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT_ndXDZ0DU
[13:15:51] <IchGuckLive> the cutter runs on 5 Leadshine M882 with Nanotec 4,2A 3Nm steppers
[13:16:57] <IchGuckLive> the leadscrew is 2m long at TR20x4 that is 4mm per REV
[13:17:40] <IchGuckLive> at half step its then 0.01mm resolution at 600mm/min cutting speed
[13:18:51] <IchGuckLive> Wire is fix on 22V at 2.4A
[13:19:13] <IchGuckLive> mocement is 1200x1200 mm
[13:20:18] <IchGuckLive> movement O.o
[13:23:04] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by fortoday have a nice workoff and happy eastern if you go on Holiday
[13:24:47] <joe9> alex4nder: with the motor coupler's there is an extra locknut. I cannot figure out where that goes. I followed the instructions for the stepper assembly in the deepgroove1 site
[13:24:57] <joe9> but, nothing on that video mentions the extra locknut.
[13:25:10] <joe9> alex4nder: do you remember seeing it too?
[13:25:23] <alex4nder> an extra locknut?
[13:25:29] <alex4nder> like identical to the other ones?
[13:26:24] <joe9> yes, identical to the one already on the taig.
[13:26:32] <alex4nder> dunno, maybe it's a spare
[13:26:35] <alex4nder> I only used 3
[13:26:58] <joe9> that is the one at the end of the axis, correct?
[13:27:10] <alex4nder> yah, that sits recessed in the machine-side of the coupler
[13:27:11] <joe9> this locknut looks very similar to that.
[13:28:01] <alex4nder> dunno
[13:42:14] <joe9> alex4nder: when the motor rotates, it is the plastic tubes that are actually rotating the axis, correct?
[13:42:38] <alex4nder> yah, the coupler metal doesn't touch
[14:18:57] <joe9> alex4nder: interesting problem. I installed all the motors and now I find that the Z -axis (top motor)'s wire is not long enough to couple with the Gecko G540.
[14:19:24] <joe9> i could find an extension for the DB-9 connector. but, thought that was interesting.
[14:20:34] <joe9> the motor wires are around a foot long each.
[14:29:46] <alex4nder> wait, you solderd the pigtail from the motor directly to the DB9?
[14:29:53] <alex4nder> motors
[15:04:32] <ssi> joe9: just bear in mind that those motor leads carry a lot of current
[15:04:52] <ssi> joe9: if you just get a DB9 serial straight through cable, it's probably 24awg internally
[15:04:55] <ssi> and they will get HOT
[15:09:51] <Loetmichel> a db9 pin is (depending on plug quality) good for around 1-2A, NOT more!
[15:13:49] <asdfasd> by specification they are rated for 5A each pin
[15:15:52] <mrsun> are they rated that high ?
[15:15:55] <mrsun> at what voltage ?
[15:16:22] <mrsun> might not matter i guess :P
[15:16:47] <djdelorie> conductors are rated for amperage, insulation is rated for amperage and voltage
[15:17:06] <djdelorie> or at least, a specific insulation-conductor combination is rated for a given amperage
[15:17:58] <ssi> the pins may be rated for 5A, but the 24ga wire in your off-the-shelf extension cable certainly won't be :)
[15:18:22] <Loetmichel> asdfasd: hmmm i would call that spec "BOLD"
[15:19:02] <Loetmichel> i have DB connectors in the company which are costing no less than 5 eur per db9...
[15:19:16] <Loetmichel> ... and they are specified for 2A/pin
[15:19:52] <ssi> machined pins are 5A
[15:20:00] <ssi> sheetmetal pins probably aren't
[15:20:22] <Thetawaves> insulation on my wire is only rated for voltage and thermal which is dependent on the current
[15:20:24] <Loetmichel> that ARE machined pins, AND gold ;-)
[15:20:34] <ssi> http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/2188845-dsub-25-pin-male-machined-db25p.html
[15:20:39] <joe9> alex4nder: yse, i soldered the pigtails from the motors directly to DB-9
[15:20:39] <ssi> Current Rating5A, 7.5A
[15:20:58] <Thetawaves> Do not use db-9 for power
[15:21:09] <ssi> I use gold plated machined pins in db shells for all sorts of aircraft avionics interconnects, and they are fine for power
[15:21:12] <alex4nder> Thetawaves: it's not a problem for this
[15:21:19] <Thetawaves> i don't know why you cnc guys are obsessed with running power over signal connectors.
[15:21:21] <ssi> 10A radio circuits use 2 DB pins
[15:21:30] <joe9> and i plan on adding an 18AWG extension to those pigtails of the Z motor now.
[15:21:47] <ssi> that's as per avionics mfgr
[15:21:53] <alex4nder> joe9: ok, watch my video closely... http://www.andern.org/alexander/taig.m4v <- you see how long the cables are from the steppers to the G540?
[15:21:57] <Loetmichel> but to the orignal poster: why not make the extension syourself?
[15:22:12] <alex4nder> joe9: those cables are continuous flex rated, with shielding
[15:23:21] <Loetmichel> soldering a db9 at each end of a 9g1 "oelflex" and closing the db9 caps isnt TAT complicated
[15:23:48] <Loetmichel> +H
[15:23:49] <asdfasd> http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0e03/0900766b80e03eab.pdf
[15:24:07] <joe9> Loetmichel: that is what I bought. now, I have a 18AWGx4 for the extension cable.
[15:24:17] <asdfasd> in notes - number 4
[15:25:57] <Loetmichel> grmbl... i should have a awg-> mm^2 table laying somewhere...
[15:26:02] <Loetmichel> google help!
[15:26:23] <joe9> alex4nder: i just got "CL3R security cable sheild" wire with 18AWG and 4 wires in it.
[15:26:30] <joe9> alex4nder: from homedepot.
[15:26:33] <alex4nder> cool
[15:26:35] <joe9> alex4nder: is that a bad idea?
[15:26:38] <Loetmichel> ah, 1mm^2, ok ;-=)
[15:26:47] <joe9> looks similar to yours.
[15:26:59] <alex4nder> it's probably fine
[15:26:59] <joe9> alex4nder: but, yours might be a little bit thick.r
[15:27:42] <alex4nder> they're "continuous flex" so the wrapper is thick as hell
[15:28:57] <joe9> alex4nder: why the "continuous flex"?
[15:29:15] <joe9> so, how long are your extension cables from the motor pigtails?
[15:29:53] <alex4nder> joe9: because your X stepper motor moves quite often.
[15:30:24] <alex4nder> they're like 3-4 feet long
[15:30:26] <joe9> 3 ft? i think Z needs to be around 3ft atleast.
[15:30:35] <joe9> ok, will put 3 ft on all axes.
[15:30:36] <joe9> thanks.
[15:30:42] <joe9> off to homedepot again.
[15:30:53] <alex4nder> well I mean, it depends on your install right?
[15:31:39] <ReadError> went ahead and ordered some handles
[15:32:42] <alex4nder> cool
[15:32:45] <alex4nder> when does your machine show up?
[15:33:23] <ReadError> prolly a few weeks ;(
[15:33:37] <ReadError> i think they drop ship it from taig
[15:34:32] <alex4nder> ah
[15:34:47] <alex4nder> well make sure taig is even shipping from them, joe9 couldn't get one from anywhere but a2zcnc
[15:35:26] <ReadError> well they got a solid amazon score
[15:35:49] <alex4nder> that doesn't mean you won't ever get it
[15:35:54] <alex4nder> I'm saying, it may be longer
[15:37:12] <alex4nder> something about a supplier issue
[15:37:25] <ReadError> oh they are out of machines?
[15:39:14] <ReadError> hmm they are on the distributor list
[15:47:41] <joe9> ReadError: checkout a2zcorp.us
[15:47:46] <joe9> they had some in stock
[15:47:51] <joe9> and that is how I got them.
[15:48:31] <joe9> ReadError: noone else has it in stock. some issue with the manufacturer.
[15:48:58] <joe9> alex4nder: thanks for your help. you are a trendsetter/leader helping us along.
[15:50:34] <ReadError> oh well i will get it eventually ;(
[15:50:39] <ReadError> i still need to learn cad first
[15:50:44] <ReadError> eagle isnt bad
[15:50:48] <ReadError> but autocad is a different beast
[15:57:29] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:23:32] <asdfasd> few days ago I hit the limit switch, they are wired all on one pin, after that I pressed reset button on the screen, then machine on button, then home all axis, then I run the G code as usual, but it makes strange roundings when Z is going down, the only way to get it work properly was to restart EMC, anyone experienced that?
[16:24:31] <asdfasd> should I report it as a BUG?
[16:26:40] <tom3p> describe 'strange rounding' .do you mean mathematical rounding? or something you hear?
[16:29:12] <asdfasd> first think to do in the G code is to make a hole 4mm with endmill 3mm, it is going down, and then moving in a small circle to extend the hole to 4mm, the bottom of the hole is fine, but at the top it looks like Z is lowered a bit early
[16:30:11] <asdfasd> Z is lowered while still moving on G0
[16:30:31] <asdfasd> probably 1-2 mm early
[16:32:35] <asdfasd> I use G64 P0.1
[16:32:41] <asdfasd> if that make any difference
[16:35:48] <tom3p> i'm guessing that you mean the round-ness of the hole at the surface.
[16:35:48] <tom3p> and that you are using a boring cycle i am not familiar with. is the entrance to the hole gouged somehow?
[16:36:51] <asdfasd> no, is not boring cycle, the G code is generated by CAM software, so it is simple G0 and G1 lines
[16:37:13] <asdfasd> yes, only the enterance is rounded
[16:38:05] <JT-Shop> can you reproduce it?
[16:38:15] <JT-Shop> in Axis Sim?
[16:38:49] <asdfasd> no, after restarting EMC everything was fine, I didnt try to hit end switch again
[16:40:41] <asdfasd> it is not big deal, just wondered if anyone experienced something like that
[16:41:50] <tom3p> check that your axis move well. you did bump at least one, and saw some error that went away. make sure nothing is loose or sticky.
[16:42:20] <JT-Shop> stepper machine?
[16:42:41] <alex4nder> re..
[16:42:57] <asdfasd> dc servo, everthing is fine, after restarting EMC just continue as normal
[16:43:26] <JT-Shop> strange
[16:44:34] <tom3p> something that happens just once is not a bug, its a misfortune, but cant be a software issue. monitor for it happening again.
[16:44:56] <asdfasd> next time Im cutting I will hit the switch again
[16:45:10] <asdfasd> and will see
[16:45:22] <tom3p> be careful, maybe offset or cut scrap at least
[16:49:27] <JT-Shop> do you use offsets that are usually cleared at the end of the G code file?
[16:49:44] <asdfasd> no offsets
[16:53:11] <tom3p> only tripped switch?, did not hit any physical obstruction?
[16:53:58] <asdfasd> no, the wire is going to the servo controller as well, so the motor stops before phisical contact
[16:56:03] <asdfasd> after restarting EMC I cut same piece one more hour, didnt happen again
[16:56:47] <asdfasd> the whole G code is about 30 seconds so I cut about 60 more pieces
[17:40:25] <KimK> djdelorie: Thanks for the help seeding. Mine has only sent out 117MB (1/6 of a CD?), but I'm running the Vuze plugin "speed scheduler" here, to avoid interfering with things. So it's pretty limited during the day, but opens up after office hours. I only sent the torrent link to the users mailing list, and once to #linuxcnc. It's not on the website (yet?)
[17:41:01] <djdelorie> ah, ok. I have rate limits disabled on mine unless I have a specific reason to need more bandwidth
[17:41:52] * ReadError flexes his 2mbit upload
[17:42:16] <djdelorie> I think that's what I have too
[17:43:10] <Tom_itx> KimK, i had issues with the iso install. the checksum checked out and i could 'try' it however with the full install, it wouldn't install linuxcnc. all i got was the documents placed in an 'other' menu bar.
[17:43:15] <KimK> ReadError: Thanks for the help seeding.
[17:43:24] <Tom_itx> i went ahead and used the script file off the website
[17:43:59] <KimK> Tom_itx: Sorry to hear you had trouble, has anyone else reported this?
[17:44:20] <KimK> (BTW, we currently show 10 seeds, but I've seen as many as 14 there.)
[17:44:26] <Tom_itx> i asked last night? and only a handfull had tried it but used the 'try' option
[17:44:50] <Tom_itx> iirc cradek was successful
[17:45:08] <KimK> Maybe I'll try it later installing under VirtualBox, if I have time.
[17:45:11] <Tom_itx> i noticed it skipped step 6 of the install
[17:45:16] <Tom_itx> and went from 5 to 7
[17:45:19] <Tom_itx> if that helps
[17:45:23] <pfred1> resizing a 500GB HDD takes forever!
[17:45:27] <djdelorie> nobody likes 6 anyway
[17:45:42] <djdelorie> it's a silly number
[17:45:47] <KimK> I forgot what step that is. Oh, is it partitioning?
[17:46:01] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[17:46:04] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MzX-jhKiAE
[17:46:08] <Tom_itx> i used the whole drive
[17:46:34] <Tom_itx> the linux install worked fine, just no linuxcnc
[17:46:52] <pfred1> Tom_itx well you need a swap partition kind of maybe
[17:47:01] * pfred1 needs a swap partition
[17:47:31] <Tom_itx> it creates 2 partitions
[17:47:34] <pfred1> it just turned out I needed a bigger swap partition than I thought I did
[17:48:08] <pfred1> I really like suspend on this machine but I'd like it to work better
[17:48:11] <KimK> Tom_itx: Maybe they fixed it so you have to go back in and pick "linuxcnc"? Or say "sudo apt-get install linuxcnc"?
[17:49:08] <Tom_itx> it wasn't on the hdd so apt-get install would be the only way
[17:50:02] <KimK> (I guess I should quit saying "apt-get...", I think they (Ubuntu? Debian?) want us to start saying "aptitude..."? Not sure though. )
[17:50:18] <Tom_itx> i used the script from the website and got it. i was just reporting my experience
[17:51:07] <KimK> Tom_itx: Hey, thanks, user reports are always most appreciated.
[17:51:54] <KimK> You guys keep chatting, I'll check back later.
[17:51:58] <pfred1> KimK ubuntu scrapped aptitude
[17:52:08] <Tom_itx> it worked differently than the previous 10.04 iso install
[17:52:14] <pfred1> you can apt-get it but they don't install it by default
[17:52:33] <KimK> Oh, did they? Well, I'm always the last one on the rumor mill.
[17:52:34] <pfred1> I think they're making something new?
[17:53:24] <Tom_itx> it might be good to note that since some windows noob would not know
[17:53:41] * pfred1 thinks Mark Shuttlesworth is an alien reptillian overloard and Ubuntu is part of his grand plan of planetary conquest ...
[17:54:53] <pfred1> least that is the vibe I'm getting lately seeing soem of the changes they're making
[17:56:08] <pfred1> hrm I wonder if I can find my password for bugzilla
[17:56:23] <ReadError> http://www.deepgroove1.com/gecko/geckodriver.htm
[17:56:31] <ReadError> thats a good or bad deal you think?
[17:56:46] <ReadError> i know the gecko is like 245
[17:56:55] <ReadError> not sure how much the PSU is though
[17:56:59] <ReadError> motors ~40$ each
[17:58:14] <pfred1> apparently accounts aren't universal on bugzilla
[17:58:26] <JT-Shop> looks like they need to work on thier web page a bit
[17:59:18] <ReadError> agreed
[17:59:29] <ReadError> 400W 48VDC PSU ~95$
[17:59:42] <Tom_itx> ReadError, do your own comparison: http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA23Package3x.html
[18:00:05] <pfred1> what are the knobs for?
[18:00:19] <Tom_itx> make you feel in control?
[18:00:25] <JT-Shop> LOL
[18:00:30] <Tom_itx> probably for the back of the steppers
[18:00:30] <pfred1> Tom_itx gotcha nice touch
[18:00:49] <pfred1> so you can buff your fingernails
[18:01:17] <Tom_itx> if you watch them during a run maybe they'll put you into a trance
[18:01:46] <pfred1> ReadError then there are my motor and driver pairs that set me back a whopping $25 each
[18:02:04] <Tom_itx> pfred1 what drivers?
[18:02:14] <pfred1> Tom_itx homemade TB6560s
[18:02:23] <Tom_itx> did you make a pcb for them?
[18:02:26] <pfred1> they cost $10 a pop
[18:02:31] <pfred1> not really
[18:02:35] <pfred1> here i have a pic
[18:02:54] <ReadError> pfred1: how much was your power supply?
[18:03:06] <ReadError> the gecko 540 seems to have good reviews from everyone here
[18:03:24] <Tom_itx> well, they're a 'package'
[18:03:49] <pfred1> Tom_itx http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9816/tb6560boardb.jpg
[18:04:08] <pfred1> ReadError I made it for cheap free!
[18:04:32] <Tom_itx> the chips are $5
[18:04:34] <pfred1> ReadError http://www.instructables.com/id/300-Watt-Linear-Power-Supply/
[18:04:49] <pfred1> Tom_itx I got mine for $4.17 each
[18:04:57] <Tom_itx> where?
[18:05:03] <Tom_itx> i didn't check mouser yet
[18:05:05] <pfred1> I think mouser or digikey
[18:05:20] <Tom_itx> dk was 5.88
[18:05:31] <pfred1> the dollar is falling in value
[18:05:49] <pfred1> or the chips are getting more popular
[18:06:32] <pfred1> I have a pic now of the mysterious tan box that runs my power supply
[18:06:39] <Tom_itx> you used the sip?
[18:06:53] <Tom_itx> err it looks like a sip
[18:07:11] <pfred1> they've ZIPs
[18:07:14] <Tom_itx> no, staggered dips
[18:07:20] <pfred1> the pins zig zag back and forth
[18:07:43] <pfred1> I found spreading them made soldering it a lot easier
[18:07:55] <Tom_itx> how much current?
[18:07:58] <Tom_itx> and V?
[18:08:13] <pfred1> the transformer in here hard to see i pulled it out of a PDP 11/34 http://i.imgur.com/uB4rl.jpg
[18:08:20] <Tom_itx> meh, they're only 3A
[18:08:26] <pfred1> 3.5
[18:08:34] <Tom_itx> and 34v
[18:08:37] <pfred1> but I've yet to see one draw it they run OK
[18:08:45] <pfred1> don't believe that 34V
[18:08:56] <pfred1> they'll blow right up in yoru face yo utry that
[18:08:58] <Tom_itx> i need something that will take 45 or so
[18:09:05] <Tom_itx> safely 50v
[18:09:18] <pfred1> yah no but the TBs have a mode that makes them seem like they're higher voltage
[18:10:15] <pfred1> I only get useful power to 800 RPM
[18:10:19] <pfred1> thats about it
[18:10:54] <pfred1> it'll run a little faster than this but not much http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[18:11:18] <pfred1> I got it to do 1.5 IPS
[18:11:27] <pfred1> it actually did better with more drag
[18:11:36] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/hb1.jpg
[18:11:44] <Tom_L> those worked ok
[18:11:48] <Tom_L> but they're expensive
[18:12:01] <pfred1> they're like $12 a module
[18:12:04] <Tom_L> i got some samples to try
[18:12:31] <ReadError> pfred1: ide like the knobs to run it manually if i needed too
[18:12:35] <ReadError> nice option to have IMO
[18:12:37] <pfred1> they have 4,000 MOSFETs in them
[18:12:49] <pfred1> ReadError no you won't
[18:12:59] <pfred1> once it is CNCed push button is where its at
[18:13:12] <pfred1> my motors can move much more precisely than I can
[18:13:27] <Tom_L> yeah if anything make a pendant for it
[18:13:43] <pfred1> it'll move like 0.000063 of an inch a step
[18:13:48] <ReadError> pfred1: what kind of interface do you use?
[18:13:56] <ReadError> keyboard?
[18:13:57] <djdelorie> and it won't shake if you've had too much coffee
[18:14:00] <pfred1> ReadError you mean my break out board?
[18:14:12] <ReadError> no when you control the machine manually
[18:14:13] <pfred1> oh yeah just the keyboard
[18:14:35] * pfred1 hasn't accessorized his outfit
[18:14:58] <ReadError> i seen one guy that used a ps2 style controller
[18:15:00] <pfred1> why would i want to manually control the machine?
[18:15:09] <pfred1> that sort of defeats the whole purpose of CNC
[18:15:14] <ReadError> yea
[18:15:20] <ReadError> but i might have to modify a part
[18:15:27] <djdelorie> we need pendants with spinny wheels so we can pretend we're in charge...
[18:15:31] <pfred1> then writne new code
[18:15:32] <ReadError> in which it would be much easier to use it manually
[18:15:40] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[18:15:41] <pfred1> write even
[18:15:43] <ReadError> pfred1: not a part i made in the past
[18:15:44] <Tom_L> make something like that
[18:15:49] <ReadError> an off the shelf solution
[18:16:13] <pfred1> ReadError they make indicators for that
[18:16:18] <djdelorie> old school it - three handwheels, one each on top, front, side :-)
[18:16:24] <pfred1> touch probes
[18:17:05] <pfred1> cradek has a video of one of his machines probing doesn't he?
[18:17:07] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/probe_index.php
[18:17:13] <Tom_L> those are pretty doable too
[18:18:04] <ReadError> do they have programs that automatically probe and model a part in CAD?
[18:18:53] <pfred1> ask cradek
[18:19:01] <Tom_L> http://fadedbits.com/2011/02/touchprobe/
[18:19:10] <djdelorie> I saw a youtube video of a system doing it with a usb camera
[18:19:16] <pfred1> oh man i have to get a new xterm
[18:19:36] <pfred1> everytime I try to copy a link this one draws a line under it
[18:20:04] <djdelorie> yum install xterm ?
[18:20:22] <Tom_L> http://www.vinland.com/Touch-Probe.html
[18:20:24] <pfred1> djdelorie i like urxvt
[18:20:27] <Tom_L> he scanned a part
[18:20:48] <Tom_L> mach3 though
[18:21:09] <Tom_L> maybe meshlab
[18:21:17] <pfred1> "Chris Radek has published some g-code routines on his site that got me up and running quick."
[18:21:25] <Tom_L> http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/
[18:22:08] <pfred1> see I knew that cradek was a prober!
[18:24:04] <pfred1> bah Warning: No matches found for: urxvt
[18:24:44] <pfred1> oh they call it rxvt-unicode-256color-ml.x86_64
[18:25:16] <djdelorie> yum search rxvt
[18:25:27] <pfred1> I did
[18:25:34] <pfred1> it is installing
[18:25:48] <pfred1> I need to file a bug report
[18:26:07] <pfred1> there is a dep error for unetbootin and no filed report of it
[18:26:14] <pfred1> was annoying to fix
[18:27:24] <pfred1> ubuntu has the exact same bug! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unetbootin/+bug/774749
[18:28:19] <pfred1> but at least theirs is filed might even be fixed?
[18:28:35] <djdelorie> file it bugzilla, yes
[18:29:10] <pfred1> yeah my account isn't universal I need to make one for redhat?
[18:29:35] <pfred1> least it looked that way to me
[18:30:03] <djdelorie> you need to make one for fedora on redhat's bugzilla: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_file_a_bug_report
[18:30:13] <pfred1> I ran gparted on this box to resize my swap so maybe suspend will work better
[18:31:59] <pfred1> I really liked suspend but my network link went down and wouldn't come back up so I ended up having to reboot anyways
[18:32:32] <pfred1> but my swap was way too small so that might be why?
[18:37:32] <ssi> Nick001: I got my X axis mostly sorted out
[18:38:54] <ReadError> joe9: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPAGE?PMPAGE=/specials/893-2096
[18:38:55] <ReadError> found that
[18:39:01] <ReadError> pretty cheap for a gallon
[18:41:06] <alex4nder> ReadError: do you not shop locally at all?
[18:41:10] <alex4nder> you're like the mailorder master
[18:41:20] <ssi> where the hell does one buy way oil locally? :P
[18:41:31] <djdelorie> the only "locally" around here is the local hardware store...
[18:41:33] <alex4nder> at the machine supply shop
[18:41:41] <ssi> those exist?
[18:41:41] <alex4nder> I walked in, bought a gallon of way oil, and left.
[18:41:42] <ssi> heh
[18:41:44] <Tom_L> hampel :)
[18:41:59] <alex4nder> ssi: I live in a coast tourist town, and I can still buy way oil on demand.
[18:42:02] <alex4nder> locally
[18:42:03] <djdelorie> I have to drive half an hour just to get welding gas
[18:42:05] <alex4nder> er coastal
[18:42:05] <ssi> lucky you
[18:42:08] <ssi> I'm not sure I can
[18:42:13] <pfred1> alex4nder I can only shop locally if corn is in season http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5026/p4110020.jpg
[18:42:20] <ssi> what coast?
[18:42:25] <alex4nder> west
[18:42:55] <pfred1> know what is great as way oil?
[18:43:00] <alex4nder> whales
[18:43:00] <pfred1> chainsaw bar lube
[18:43:03] <alex4nder> whale way oil
[18:43:13] <pfred1> nah man use bar lube
[18:43:21] <pfred1> stuff works great
[18:43:27] <Tom_L> stp
[18:43:28] <djdelorie> bar lube! *That* I can get at the local hardware store.
[18:43:41] <pfred1> djdelorie gives your machine a nice feel
[18:43:47] <djdelorie> which machine?
[18:43:55] <pfred1> yur lathe
[18:44:00] <pfred1> it has ways
[18:44:11] <pfred1> I use bar lube as shop oil
[18:44:13] <djdelorie> so far I've been using a light machine oil, and grease in a few key spots
[18:44:16] <pfred1> stuff rox
[18:44:24] <pfred1> pfft get some bar lube
[18:44:38] <djdelorie> for cleaning, I need the thinnest oil I can get because it needs to work through tight spaces and bleed out the dirt
[18:44:38] <alex4nder> pfred1 owns stock in bar lube
[18:44:47] <ssi> I live in one of the top ten largest metropolitan areas in the country and I don't think I can walk into a store and buy way oil :(
[18:44:48] <Tom_L> appears so
[18:44:51] <ssi> but if I can, I'd love to know where
[18:45:04] <djdelorie> they don't like people using chainsaws in the big city :-)
[18:45:11] <pfred1> I'm telling ya pick up a quart of bar lube you won't regret it
[18:45:19] <ssi> I can buy chainsaw bar oil, but that's not the concern
[18:45:27] <djdelorie> I have two gallong in the garage for the chain saws
[18:45:29] <djdelorie> gallons
[18:45:32] <alex4nder> ssi: what area?
[18:45:37] <ssi> I can, however, get vactra from mcmaster, which has a distributor in atlanta and can deliver to me overnight or faster
[18:45:39] <pfred1> well there you go
[18:45:40] <ssi> alex4nder: atlanta
[18:45:50] <pfred1> put some in a little oil can
[18:45:59] * djdelorie wonders if air tool oil is similar to light machine oil...
[18:46:17] <djdelorie> I have a little oil can somewhere. Came with the little lathe.
[18:46:28] <pfred1> air tool lube is light oil and i bet it has some rust preventitive maybe gas line drier in it?
[18:46:37] <Tom_L> http://www.ashburnchemical.com/tech_data_sheets/3b%20Lubricants/F-800_%20WAY%20OILStds.pdf
[18:46:39] <djdelorie> that's easy to get around here too
[18:46:48] <Tom_L> pull a data sheet on bar lube and do a comparison
[18:47:01] <pfred1> I ordered like 4 quarts off horrible fright years ago I still have a bunch
[18:47:19] <Tom_L> rear end lube may also work
[18:47:19] <pfred1> Tom_L hey try it if yo udon't like it wipe it off
[18:47:22] <Tom_L> 90wt
[18:47:37] <pfred1> bar lube is lkike honey gives machines a real nice feel
[18:47:39] <Tom_L> pfred1 i have a couple gallons of it
[18:47:51] <ssi> vactra 2 is much lighter than bar lube I'm pretty sure
[18:47:59] <Tom_L> stihl bar lube
[18:48:07] <pfred1> ssi you need that if your machine has a sump pump
[18:48:07] <djdelorie> for gear teeth and the feed screw, I put regular grease on it so it wouldn't drip on the floor
[18:48:28] <pfred1> djdelorie well bar lube is formulated to stick to chainsaw blades
[18:48:33] <ssi> my lathe has an auto oiler... I'm sticking to what the machine asks for
[18:48:43] <pfred1> ssi yeah you need different oil
[18:48:51] <pfred1> bar lube won't work for you
[18:48:56] <djdelorie> pfred1: not really, it's a constant feed system
[18:49:06] <djdelorie> and I have to drip the oil into little "oil me" holes
[18:49:13] <pfred1> djdelorie well nothing is going to stick to a chainsaw blade for very long
[18:49:26] <pfred1> you could paint it and it ain't gonna stick
[18:49:26] <Tom_L> non detergent oil is likely what you're after
[18:49:44] <djdelorie> right, but bar oil is still runny, just less runny than light oil. Grease is sticky, not runny.
[18:49:56] <pfred1> the stuff I have isn't runny
[18:50:07] <pfred1> well it is like honey
[18:50:42] <pfred1> I read about it in some machining forum and I tried it beats 30WT
[18:51:09] <alex4nder> I think emacs is better than vi.
[18:51:16] <alex4nder> buddha is better than jesus.
[18:51:19] <alex4nder> coke is better than pepsi.
[18:51:27] <alex4nder> chevy is better than ford.
[18:51:31] <pfred1> alex4nder my mill chatters less with it
[18:51:35] <djdelorie> if you can pour it into a chainsaw, it's runny enough. I'm going to try it anyway, just sayin ;-)
[18:51:37] <pfred1> how's that grab you?
[18:51:48] <alex4nder> pfred1: your mill chatters?
[18:51:53] <JT-Shop> Rudy is best to call for miracles
[18:52:03] <pfred1> alex4nder I never met one that didn't
[18:52:31] <pfred1> but mine usually chatters more than most
[18:52:46] <pfred1> bar lube made it 100% better!
[18:52:57] <alex4nder> have you tried KY or vaseline?
[18:53:02] <Tom_L> we know where alex4nder stands in the world
[18:53:05] <JT-Shop> lol
[18:53:10] <djdelorie> my little lathe chatters. The top slide doesn't fit on its dovetails right
[18:53:15] <pfred1> alex4nder not yet are you saying they work for you?
[18:53:36] <alex4nder> pfred1: no, I just mean as long as we're using something besides way oil to oil our ways, where does it end?
[18:53:37] <pfred1> djdelorie try bar lube let me know how it goes
[18:53:43] <djdelorie> just on the ways?
[18:53:50] <pfred1> stuff has some sticktion
[18:53:53] <alex4nder> perhaps crisco
[18:53:56] <pfred1> heck i use it everywhere
[18:54:04] <Tom_L> naw, rub it on your arms and legs too
[18:54:07] <pfred1> well, OK not everywhere
[18:54:12] <djdelorie> I need to figure out how to clean the underside of the cross carriage
[18:54:21] <ssi> spit on the ways every now and again
[18:54:31] <alex4nder> a mans mill
[18:54:39] <ssi> ok so while we're talking about lubricating linear motion
[18:54:44] <alex4nder> : |
[18:54:53] <ssi> what about linear rails that have bearing blocks with grease zerks
[18:54:58] <ssi> what do you suppose they like to be greased with
[18:55:14] <pfred1> djdelorie I have to use some on my PC upstairs it must know I got the new PSU and didn't put it into it the fan started whining
[18:55:24] <djdelorie> I have zerks on the top step pulley bearings, but that part is an add-on
[18:56:05] <pfred1> bar lube I'm telling ya!
[18:56:06] <alex4nder> I'm zerkless.
[18:57:21] <ssi> not putting barlube in my exceedingly expensive linear bearings :P
[18:57:34] <Tom_L> why?
[18:57:35] <djdelorie> mine have 3-in-1
[18:57:55] <ssi> they very likely want grease, not oil
[18:58:09] <Tom_L> from what i hear you can use bar lube for anything
[18:58:15] <pfred1> yeah bar lube ian't grease
[18:58:20] <djdelorie> I put it inside the ball bearing runs, it eventually got everywhere anyway :-)
[18:58:37] <djdelorie> grease would have been better there, but that's what I had on hand at the time
[18:59:02] <pfred1> but it is somewhere between oil and grease
[18:59:54] <pfred1> if i want bar lube to penetrate i hit it with some PB Blaster
[19:00:14] <pfred1> that thins it out
[19:02:36] <ReadError> alex4nder
[19:02:42] <ReadError> i work 7am-6pm
[19:02:47] <ReadError> most places closed when i get off ;/
[19:03:00] <ReadError> otherwise i could get stuff after work
[19:03:10] <pfred1> hardware stores here stay open to 8 or 9
[19:03:26] <pfred1> ace is 8 home depot and lowes 9
[19:04:10] <pfred1> you cna check them store hours out online too
[19:04:23] <ReadError> well yea they are open
[19:04:33] <ReadError> but places that would sell machining stuff probably close early
[19:04:57] <pfred1> I think I'd have to go out of state for that
[19:05:44] <pfred1> all they got here is TSC
[19:05:59] <alex4nder> werd.
[19:06:33] <pfred1> but i buy my tractor oil there I don't use bar lube in it
[19:06:47] <pfred1> wow check out the Moon!
[19:06:55] <pfred1> no wonder everyone is so batty tonight
[19:07:17] <pfred1> I have to go outside and check it out
[19:08:27] <pfred1> Venus is really cool tonight too
[19:12:55] <gene_> Hey ya-all!
[19:13:02] <pfred1> hey gene
[19:13:27] <JT-Shop> hay gene_
[19:13:40] <gene_> Lo. Good sky tonight here too
[19:13:49] <pfred1> yeah it is freaky
[19:13:58] <Tom_L> yep, nice n gray here
[19:14:18] <JT-Shop> dark and cloudy here
[19:14:21] <pfred1> little cloudy here but I still saw Venus and the Moon
[19:14:38] <JT-Shop> tomorrow is going to be sunny and 66F
[19:14:42] <Tom_L> any thoughts on the digital stepper drives kelinginc sells?
[19:14:47] <JT-Shop> it was 85F the other day
[19:14:49] <gene_> A bit here, I justchecked, not quite dark yet.
[19:15:10] <pfred1> Tom_L have a link?
[19:15:11] <JT-Shop> gee, I'd use G251's myself
[19:15:21] <Tom_L> http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriverDigital.html
[19:15:54] <pfred1> they spec real good
[19:15:55] <ssi> I have a couple of the keling drivers, and they're great for the money
[19:16:07] <gene_> I need a sort of a multiplier function, an antilog maybe, toput between the +- buttons for spindle speed inaxis, and the actual signal out
[19:16:07] <Tom_L> ssi, digital?
[19:16:17] <JT-Shop> oh that is up in the G203V range for voltage almost
[19:16:17] <ssi> eh maybe they're not digital
[19:16:23] <pfred1> if it does what it says it does and I've no reason not to think it wouldn't then they look good to me
[19:17:05] <gene_> I need to be able to tweek slow speeds up in 5% of speed increments, all the way to full speed. Is there such a beastie?
[19:17:27] <ssi> spindle pid tuning is kicking my ass :)
[19:17:30] <JT-Shop> on the fly?
[19:17:42] <gene_> yup
[19:18:07] <JT-Shop> can't use stepgen acceleration as your limit?
[19:18:08] <gene_> ssi, what interface?
[19:18:45] <gene_> I don't think I have that in my .hal ATM, John.
[19:18:56] <ssi> gene_: what interface for what?
[19:19:15] <gene_> to control your spindle
[19:19:43] <ssi> VFD
[19:19:53] <JT-Shop> what are you up against gene_ ?
[19:20:25] <JT-Shop> ssi, are you using hal scope to tune?
[19:20:48] <gene_> I've been hacking at one of Arturo Duncan's C41's and finally have it working, but the slower speed stepsare poretty huge
[19:21:02] <gene_> and I've been using a real scope
[19:21:35] <ssi> JT-Shop: yeah i'm using halscope
[19:21:42] <JT-Shop> what is a c41?
[19:21:53] <ssi> problem I'm having is overshoot and some oscillation when I change speeds
[19:21:58] <asdfasd> ssi , what for is that spindle? milling machine? if that is for milling then if you setup proper slip in your VFD drive then the speed will be so stable that you may not need PID at all
[19:22:08] <JT-Shop> ssi, the HNC is a vfd drive on the spindle?
[19:22:08] <ssi> asdfasd: it's for a lathe
[19:22:14] <ssi> JT-Shop: it is now!
[19:22:23] <gene_> I have also multiplied the bandwidth of the C41 by about 50x
[19:22:28] <ssi> JT-Shop: it was just ac-controlled fwd/rev contactors, and teh speed control is mechanical
[19:22:35] <ssi> ballscrew drives a trunion with a variable pulley
[19:22:41] <asdfasd> then you have to reduce Kp
[19:23:06] <asdfasd> may be by 10-15 %
[19:23:19] <ssi> just reducing P isn't enough... I dunno why
[19:23:37] <gene_> ssi, thatsounds as if the response times need a surveyer
[19:23:44] <asdfasd> you can set Ki to zero
[19:24:05] <asdfasd> just to make sure is not making troubles
[19:24:12] <ssi> I'm already running zero I
[19:25:03] <asdfasd> then with low Kd you are increasing Kp to make it work stable,
[19:25:14] <JT-Shop> gene_, are you running your spindle with the c41?
[19:25:27] <JT-Shop> and it ramps up or down too fast?
[19:25:38] <JT-Shop> crap I remember something about this
[19:26:06] <gene_> I don't know about the ramp, I wanted real time control though
[19:27:10] <gene_> yes, as a potreplacement for the oem controller
[19:27:19] <JT-Shop> your feeding the c41 with pwm and controlling a spindle?
[19:27:41] <gene_> not yet, testing on the workbench
[19:28:46] <JT-Shop> your using pwmgen to drive the c41?
[19:29:36] <gene_> yes, I would imagine that I'll have to put an integrator since issueing an s1250 m3 may be more than the controller can do.
[19:30:26] <JT-Shop> yea, I wish I could remember what you need inbetween to ramp it up
[19:30:33] <gene_> but I also need something that increases the size of the step as it speeds up
[19:30:53] <gene_> right now its about 200 revs a step
[19:30:56] <JT-Shop> that would be an acceleration thing... crap what is it
[19:33:16] <JT-Shop> I want to think it is something like ddt but the man page is so blank I can't tell or limit1 HELP ANDY
[19:33:26] <WCMD> does anyone know if i could use an arduino and a bldc driver together as a servo controller? use the arduino for pid, monitor position commands and encoder readings.
[19:33:33] <JT-Shop> btw, has anyone seen Andy?
[19:33:54] <pfred1> he went sailing I think
[19:34:08] <djdelorie> WCMD: I use a mcu+driver in my bldc controller. How much you can do in the MCU depends on how powerful the MCU is
[19:34:10] <pfred1> last i saw him he was sating something about it
[19:34:12] <JT-Shop> he is done sailing
[19:35:24] <pfred1> well I haven't seen him since then
[19:36:36] <JT-Shop> gene_, look at this http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/examples/spindle.html#_spindle_soft_start
[19:37:36] <JT-Shop> Andy arrived in SF a few days ago... dunno maybe homeland screwups arrested him or something
[19:37:56] <gene_> looks as if it will do part of it anyway.
[19:38:19] <pfred1> JT-Shop was he in that yacht race out there?
[19:38:34] <JT-Shop> the round the world one yea
[19:38:34] <Tom_L> yes
[19:38:49] <JT-Shop> he sailed from China to SF
[19:38:52] <pfred1> I saw a news article about a british ship that got hit by a rogue wave
[19:38:59] <gene_> Now, I will have an encoder on the spindle, is there a page that shows me how to tell it 230 rpm and have the encoder control it for 230 rpms?
[19:39:07] <pfred1> I hope it wasn't him!
[19:39:21] <pfred1> they said there were injuries but they didn't give everyone's name
[19:39:24] <JT-Shop> pfred1, no it was the last boat
[19:39:38] <JT-Shop> Andy's boat came in 4th
[19:39:41] <gene_> it wasn't, he was in port alreqdy in his boat wen that happened to another competitor
[19:40:03] <pfred1> oh well not good to hear but good to hear it wasn't him
[19:40:18] <pfred1> when I read about it I did think of him
[19:40:30] <tom3p> i needed a 'demux' comp ( 3bit binary input select 1 of 8 out bits ) for pendant axis selector http://pastebin.com/bMMrBRxg
[19:40:31] * JT-Shop heads inside to strap on the feed bag
[19:40:49] <JT-Shop> talk to you guys later
[19:40:57] <pfred1> l8r
[19:41:20] <gene_> don't tie it too tight!
[19:41:28] <pfred1> tom3p they make those ICs
[19:41:48] <tom3p> i never fiured how to solder hal pins ;)
[19:41:50] <pfred1> 3 in 8 out demultiplexers
[19:42:02] <Tom_itx> you're welcome to look at my code
[19:42:20] <Tom_itx> stolen and modified from jt
[19:42:38] <tom3p> eh? a demux comp?
[19:42:43] <Tom_itx> err...
[19:42:50] <Tom_itx> maybe not
[19:43:05] <Tom_itx> i did make a pendant axis selector
[19:43:36] <Tom_itx> for X Y Z A and different resolutions
[19:44:21] <tom3p> ditto, same idea, it kinda depends where reality ends and hal begins
[19:44:34] <Tom_itx> you can see if it would help
[19:45:09] <tom3p> i found an old fanuc AB mpg and am using it too.
[19:45:15] <tom3p> sure, got links?
[19:45:35] <Tom_itx> winding up the mainspring on the other pc
[19:46:34] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/configs/hm2-stepper/my_jog.hal
[19:46:41] <tom3p> thx!
[19:47:03] <Tom_L> i was doing some testing on errorproofing so there may be some stuff in there that's incomplete
[19:47:40] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[19:47:47] <Tom_L> there's what i was working with
[19:49:30] <tom3p> nice, shiny AND engraved
[19:49:33] <Tom_L> the rest of the files should be there as well
[19:49:46] <Tom_L> not that fancy, it was a center drill :)
[19:50:43] <Tom_L> the estop will change to a larger button eventually
[19:50:47] <Tom_L> that's just a test box
[19:51:54] <ReadError> is that a knob off a safe? ;p
[19:52:27] <Tom_L> http://www.pmdx.com/MPG-01
[19:52:53] <ReadError> oooohhh lol
[19:54:13] <tom3p> you used gpio.005,7&9 to select xyz, thats why i used a demux, to get xyzwabc out of 3 inputs
[19:54:29] <tom3p> also acts like radio buttons ( only 1 at a time, better for me )
[19:56:07] <pfred1> ah I found the fonts i need to IRC with anymore tiresias-info-fonts.noarch : Specialized fonts for info terminals for the visually impaired ...
[19:57:01] <pfred1> the tired eyes fonts!
[20:05:53] <tom3p> a guy just asked the mailing list about probs with torque mode amps. doesnt that just act like a pwm controlled h bridge? ( a 'dumb' amp)?
[20:07:43] <ssi> JT-Shop: he hopped on here for a few minutes after he hit sf
[20:08:03] <ssi> oshi I was scrolled up
[20:13:03] <Justin_CNC> Is there anyone in here who routes circuit boards?
[20:14:57] <pfred1> I do
[20:21:31] <Tom_L> yes
[20:24:27] <Justin_CNC> What kind of tools are you using to cut and what feeds/speeds?
[20:24:35] <Justin_CNC> If you do not mind sharing
[20:24:51] <Tom_L> oh heck i thought you meant 'cad' route
[20:24:54] <Tom_L> i etch mine
[20:25:12] <Tom_L> 10krpm or more with carbite bits
[20:28:37] <Justin_CNC> I am running 30k rpm at the moment and about 26IPM, I am just wondering how much faster I can go without snapping the tip off the tool
[20:29:07] <Tom_L> calculate the ipt
[20:29:21] <Tom_L> then calculate the chip load
[20:29:44] <Tom_L> err vice versa
[20:37:31] <pfred1> Justin_CNC I route board art I don't mill boards
[20:38:00] <pfred1> yeah I etch too
[20:38:22] <djdelorie> my pcb drilling spindle is 56k rpm but I haven't tried milling with it, other than a bit 0.125" bit ;-)
[20:38:38] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch_index.php
[20:38:55] <djdelorie> Tom_L: how do you know what the right chip load *is* for one of those bits ?
[20:38:56] <pfred1> djdelorie we've had a conversation about your PCB drilling before
[20:39:09] <djdelorie> yup, just adding my rpm to the mix
[20:39:11] <Tom_L> djdelorie, surface speed
[20:39:27] <Tom_L> no different than any other cutter
[20:39:35] <Tom_L> just smaller
[20:39:36] <djdelorie> if I want to calculate the surface speed, you need to know what the "right" chip load is for the cutter
[20:39:48] <Tom_L> yes you do
[20:39:51] <djdelorie> doesn't that depend on the cutter geometry?
[20:39:55] <Justin_CNC> Yeah, I am stuck there, I have no idea what the chip load should be
[20:40:19] <pfred1> if the bit snaps it is too high
[20:40:23] <djdelorie> :-P
[20:41:13] <Tom_L> well let's see here
[20:41:23] <Justin_CNC> trying not to snap it, I only have one :)
[20:41:25] <Tom_L> what's the tool diameter and number of teeth?
[20:41:39] <pfred1> buy them by the dozen PCB material is nasty
[20:42:16] <Tom_L> ahhhemm.. what's the tool diameter and number of teeth?
[20:42:33] <Justin_CNC> It is a 1/8th carbide, V bit I guess, 10 teeth
[20:42:53] <Justin_CNC> let me measure the angle
[20:43:01] <pfred1> the shank is 1/8 inch
[20:43:24] <Justin_CNC> pfred1, I plan to, I just need to get a couple boards done tonight
[20:43:30] <pfred1> figure they're going to go 1/32
[20:43:31] <Justin_CNC> yes, 1/8 inch shank
[20:43:43] <pfred1> that is reasonable
[20:45:16] <Justin_CNC> looks like 35 degree angle
[20:45:28] <Tom_L> and the spindle speed again?
[20:45:45] <Justin_CNC> 30k rpm is my max
[20:46:11] <pfred1> that is what you're going to want to run at 1/32 diameter cutter
[20:47:11] <pfred1> Justin_CNC you're not going to sink the whole bit through the board are you?
[20:48:01] <Tom_L> doesn't matter
[20:48:06] <Justin_CNC> No, just the copper, trying to keep the bit out of the fiber as much as possible
[20:48:39] <pfred1> I think you're going to want to get a different bit someday
[20:48:53] <pfred1> one maybe with a more rounded profile
[20:49:48] <pfred1> so you can get some teeth into the material
[20:50:55] <Justin_CNC> I am open to suggestions, I have no idea were to source small stuff like this, this tool came from drillbitcity.com, part of their circuit routing pack
[20:51:27] <pfred1> then it should work they don't have any data about it?
[20:51:47] <Justin_CNC> the tip is about 0.020", so it is too big for smt stuff anyway
[20:52:04] <pfred1> so it doesn't go to a sharp point?
[20:53:01] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARBIDE-ENDMILL-COMBO-PACK-3-CNC-PCB-DREMEL-50-PIECE-/180850222193?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1b836471
[20:53:04] <pfred1> you could consider 0.020 your cutter diameter
[20:54:15] <Justin_CNC> I ask the guy at drill bit city and he did not really know, he said they just resharpen tooling. And yes, it is not a sharp point
[20:54:22] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180848252056
[20:54:31] <pfred1> Justin_CNC you're better off
[20:55:47] <Justin_CNC> ok, thanks for the link
[20:56:05] <Justin_CNC> I think I should go back to etching, these tools are huge :-)
[20:56:27] <pfred1> the pros etch so there must be something to say for it
[20:56:37] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/mills1.jpg
[20:56:45] <Tom_L> those aren't huge
[20:56:57] <djdelorie> my plan is to drill the pcbs first with the cnc, then etch the copper, before I'd etch first and try to drill all the little tiny copper rings out :-P
[20:56:58] <Tom_L> neither are they cheap
[20:57:35] <pfred1> djdelorie wouldn't the etchant eat the holes though?
[20:57:47] <pfred1> or are you going to mask them after you drill them?
[20:57:53] <djdelorie> I'm hoping the film will span the holes and plug them
[20:58:00] <djdelorie> I use UV film laminate, not toner
[20:58:10] <pfred1> we had this goo we called flesh we'd mask pads we didnt' want to get wave soldered
[20:58:32] <pfred1> it was sort of like a rubber
[20:58:54] <pfred1> you'd dab it on and it'd dry rubbery
[20:59:02] <pfred1> then it picked off easily
[20:59:13] <pfred1> like you could brush it off with your finger
[20:59:38] <Tom_L> at 25k rpm and a .001 chip load your feed would be 50 ipm
[20:59:51] <pfred1> banging
[21:00:04] <djdelorie> I've used that goo before
[21:00:19] <pfred1> yeah it is like fake flesh the stuff we used was pink
[21:00:49] <Justin_CNC> Thank you Tom_L
[21:00:57] <pfred1> we had to mask all the pads for final parts we couldn't wave solder
[21:00:58] <Tom_L> that means each tooth takes .001" every rpm
[21:01:02] <djdelorie> Tom_L: is there simliar magic to calculate Z feed for drilling?
[21:01:24] <Justin_CNC> djdelorie, I am curious about this UV film you are using, have any links?
[21:01:28] <Tom_L> google the machinist's friend
[21:01:45] <Justin_CNC> on it
[21:01:46] <pfred1> linuxcnc has pecking sysles doens't it?
[21:01:55] <pfred1> cycles even
[21:02:09] <djdelorie> it's basically this: http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/specs/m115spec.htm but I don't buy it from them
[21:02:38] <djdelorie> I know someone who bought a roll just to split up for everyone in the group, and I got some of that
[21:03:13] <djdelorie> the technique is the same regardless though, and you can buy it online, look for "dry film resist"
[21:03:26] <djdelorie> pfred: for pcb drilling you don't need peck cycles
[21:03:42] <pfred1> and you use the presensitized boards right?
[21:03:51] <djdelorie> no, I laminate the film on myself
[21:04:01] <pfred1> oh
[21:04:57] <djdelorie> pre-sensitized tends to be positive acting, not negative, and you'd have to drill through the film since, well, it comes pre-sensitized :-)
[21:05:18] <Justin_CNC> thanks djdelorie, I have been turned off by the cost of presensitized boards, that may be the trick
[21:05:44] <djdelorie> it's still not cheap, and you need a temperature-controlled laminator, and you still need to figure out the trick to getting it laminated without bubbles
[21:06:13] <pfred1> for a little while I decaled tractor trailers
[21:06:21] <pfred1> we'd use a brush and a blowtorch
[21:06:39] <djdelorie> the trick with uv film is to hold it *off* the board as you laminate, so the air can escape
[21:07:08] <djdelorie> if you let it rest on the board as it goes through, it will have bubbles
[21:07:25] * pfred1 hears the voice of experience talking ...
[21:07:32] <djdelorie> yeah, lots of bubbles
[21:07:42] <Justin_CNC> heh
[21:07:45] <djdelorie> there's a couple of us on Homebrew_PCBs that have tried lots of ways and shared the results
[21:07:48] <pfred1> why not let your CNC machine apply resist ink directly?
[21:08:03] <djdelorie> because I don't have an 0.005" pen
[21:08:06] <pfred1> sort of like a plotter
[21:08:23] <pfred1> what are you making ICs?
[21:08:26] <Justin_CNC> now that would be perfect
[21:08:34] <djdelorie> some in the group do direct-to-pcb printing, where they pass the pcb through an inkjet loaded with etch resist ink
[21:08:43] <Tom_L> mmm
[21:08:44] <djdelorie> 5/5 rules is not *that* small
[21:08:46] <pfred1> yeah I seen hacked inkjets
[21:09:03] <Justin_CNC> yeah, I have seen that too
[21:09:19] <pfred1> you need special ink
[21:09:20] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/
[21:09:24] <Tom_L> download machine.exe
[21:09:26] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/sdram/sdram-toppcb.html
[21:09:28] <Tom_L> see if you like it
[21:09:38] <Tom_L> i was unable to find a link to it
[21:09:41] <pfred1> oh I hate this terminal
[21:09:42] <Tom_L> the site was sold
[21:09:48] <Tom_L> brb
[21:09:52] <djdelorie> does it run on Linux?
[21:09:54] <djdelorie> too late
[21:10:05] <Tom_itx> no
[21:13:28] <pfred1> I'd never make a board like that just on principal
[21:13:36] <pfred1> it's too small!
[21:13:39] <djdelorie> heh. I made that one just to prove I could
[21:14:04] <pfred1> it looks like a radiator
[21:14:06] <djdelorie> and this one: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/inkjet/insanity_II.jpg
[21:14:21] <djdelorie> that one is 5/5 rules, and yes, it worked :-)
[21:14:49] <pfred1> worked doing what?
[21:14:57] <pfred1> is it a listening device?
[21:15:21] <djdelorie> two oscillators at not quite the same frequency, feeding an XOR that fed a LED that slowly throbbed as the two signals went in and out of phase
[21:15:37] <pfred1> oh it is a throwie
[21:15:45] <Tom_L> haha
[21:15:46] <Tom_L> http://www.calculated.com/prd311/Machinist+Calc+Pro.html
[21:19:22] <Justin_CNC> I used to have a feeds and speeds program for my TI calc, need to find that again
[21:19:52] <pfred1> I have the formula
[21:19:57] <Tom_L> i got a pile of 'slide rule' calculators from trade shows for feeds and speeds and materials etc
[21:20:20] <Tom_L> that little handbook i posted yesterday should have it as well
[21:20:24] <pfred1> SFPM = PI X DIA X RPM / 12
[21:20:49] <pfred1> though i usually want to figure for RPM
[21:21:27] <pfred1> RPM = SFPM X ((12/PI) / DIA)
[21:21:46] <Tom_L> chip load
[21:21:46] <djdelorie> the formula is just math. It's the chip load that's magic
[21:21:47] <Tom_L> ipt
[21:22:06] <djdelorie> how many ipt ?
[21:22:14] <pfred1> djdelorie if the bit breaks you went too fast
[21:22:17] <Tom_L> that's the question
[21:22:23] <Tom_L> not always
[21:22:28] <Tom_L> you may be going too slow
[21:22:32] <pfred1> true with stainless it is backwards
[21:22:36] <Justin_CNC> Is machine.exe a 16-bit app?
[21:22:36] <djdelorie> there's a minimum based on how sharp the edge is, and a maximum based on how big the pocket is
[21:22:44] <Tom_L> i think
[21:22:48] <pfred1> stainless unless you cut it you work harden it
[21:22:49] <Tom_L> it's rather old
[21:23:09] <Tom_L> it came with my cad cam software
[21:23:18] <Tom_L> i wasn't even aware i had it for years
[21:23:41] <Justin_CNC> Heh, I will have to try it out later, all I have is my EMC machine and a win7 x64 here at the moment
[21:23:59] <Tom_L> Great Solutions inc.
[21:24:03] <Tom_L> duvall Wa
[21:24:05] <pfred1> can't Linux run old dos apps in dosbox?
[21:24:59] <djdelorie> I suppose
[21:25:13] <Tom_L> their domain is for sale now
[21:25:24] <pfred1> is there another one called dosemu or did I just make that up?
[21:26:48] <pfred1> hmmm http://www.dosemu.org/
[21:27:10] <pfred1> sometimes i wonder if half the stuff i htink I know is real or not
[21:27:30] <pfred1> oh man this stuff says it can run doom!
[21:27:52] <Tom_L> i'll take a pic of these 2 pages
[21:28:17] * pfred1 ran doom in Linux but without the music it just wan't the same ...
[21:28:53] <djdelorie> yum search doom
[21:29:04] <pfred1> did they ever get the music to work?
[21:29:17] <djdelorie> dunno
[21:29:33] <pfred1> it didn't when I tried it maybe my system was misconfigured was a long time ago
[21:30:43] <pfred1> I run the darkplaces Quake engine in Linux it rox
[21:31:08] <pfred1> there must be 2,000 maps out there now
[21:31:41] <pfred1> though recently i couldn't get gtkradiant to support quake 1 maps it was a bummer
[21:33:03] <pfred1> ha ha darkplaces.x86_64
[21:33:23] * pfred1 likes Fedora ...
[21:33:46] <pfred1> though they really should have htop packaged
[21:34:23] <pfred1> oh today they do
[21:35:28] <pfred1> djdelorie I never did thank you for talking me into running this so thanks
[21:35:36] <djdelorie> you're welcome :-)
[21:35:43] <pfred1> so far its OK
[21:38:54] <Justin_CNC> I have a question about mach3, how do they get around windows not being real time?
[21:39:10] <pfred1> they hijack the system
[21:39:32] <pfred1> mach runs in ring 0 and time slices windows
[21:39:47] <Justin_CNC> wow
[21:39:55] <Justin_CNC> so what does that break in windows?
[21:39:58] <pfred1> well it was the only way they could do it
[21:40:17] <pfred1> isn't mach full screen?
[21:40:42] <Tom_L> ok.
[21:40:48] <Justin_CNC> I guess, I have never used it
[21:41:02] <pfred1> I think when you're maching that is all you're doing
[21:41:13] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/calcs/inch1.jpg
[21:41:22] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/calcs/metric1.jpg
[21:41:37] <Justin_CNC> Oh, I see what you mean :) Yes, it should be full screen anyway
[21:41:41] <Justin_CNC> are mach and emc related somehow?
[21:41:48] <Tom_L> no
[21:41:57] <pfred1> yes they are
[21:42:06] <pfred1> mach started with the nist code
[21:42:39] <pfred1> the original nist code was public domain
[21:42:43] <Justin_CNC> Thanks Tom_L
[21:43:00] <Justin_CNC> Ok, so they branched quite some time ago
[21:43:05] <pfred1> how much of it is left in emc and mach remains to be seen today
[21:44:18] <pfred1> afaik even linuxcnc hasn't been able to track down everyone who's worked on the code
[21:46:52] <Justin_CNC> when did the name change from EMC to Linux CNC?
[21:47:07] <pfred1> /topic
[21:47:50] <pfred1> the third URL covers that
[21:48:24] <Justin_CNC> thanks
[21:48:28] <pfred1> np
[21:50:20] <Justin_CNC> go figure
[21:51:24] <pfred1> yeah times must be tough for IT on the Ivory Coast
[21:55:38] <Tom_L> i sorta recall it in it's infancy state
[21:56:46] <pfred1> yeah LinuxCNC could be easily confused with cloud computing there I'm sure
[21:57:17] <pfred1> check out the no vista sticker modification http://i.imgur.com/kK0M2.jpg
[21:57:52] <Justin_CNC> I saw a video on youtube the other day where someone was sharpening tooling with a 4th axis, can you run a 4th axis on EMC in "lathe mode" and "indexed" mode? Sorry, not sure on the terminology
[21:58:09] <Justin_CNC> haha
[21:58:17] <pfred1> if it is mechanical amd moves someone is using LinuxCNC on it
[22:04:05] <ssi> bleh
[22:04:37] <pfred1> ssi you have the PID blues?
[22:09:53] <ssi> no, i have the 'wtf why is it so hard to get a chuck off a JT arbor' blus
[22:09:55] <ssi> blues even
[22:10:51] <pfred1> I just about broke my RAS here trying to take the blade off it, then I realised it was left hand thread ...
[22:11:16] <ssi> haha
[22:11:38] <pfred1> it'd been a while since I'd changed that blade
[22:11:50] <pfred1> when I got the nut off i marked it
[22:15:09] <ssi> I'm trying to setup a job
[22:15:29] <ssi> and I realized ten minutes in that the 7/16 drill won't fit in my 3/8" chuck that's on this lathe
[22:15:35] <ssi> I don't have anything bigger for this lathe yet
[22:16:12] <ssi> well, now I do cause I managed to get a 1/2" chuck off an arbor and on to another more diffrent arbor :)
[22:33:03] <ssi> I need a brake resistor for my vfd
[22:33:09] <ssi> or to get the old mechanical brake working, perhaps
[22:37:22] <jdhnc> anyone used a yakasawa(?) f7 drive?
[22:47:55] <Nick001> the brake resister absorbs the amps genrerated stopping the motor. automation direct has them - did you solve the vactra 2 problem?
[23:22:57] <ssi> Nick001: what was the vactra 2 problem?
[23:23:12] <ssi> Nick001: I have plenty of it... I was just talking about how I can't walk into a store and buy it
[23:23:35] <ReadError> i found a gallon size for like 15 or 18$
[23:24:30] <ssi> at enco... yea that's a good price
[23:24:39] <ssi> I paid like $23 from mcmaster, but I get everything overnight from them
[23:24:52] <ReadError> they got an amazon prime kinda thing?
[23:25:02] <ReadError> or you live super close
[23:25:32] <ssi> they have distribution centers in several cities, including atlanta
[23:25:42] <ssi> and for whatever reason, everything I order from them is always overnight
[23:25:47] <ssi> unless it's not in stock in atlanta
[23:25:58] <ssi> for odd shape stuff that's expensive to ship ups, tehy'll courier it for no extra charge
[23:26:02] <ssi> and then I get it same day
[23:26:12] <ssi> and if I NEED something same day, they'll courier it for a fee
[23:26:48] <ReadError> WAIT
[23:26:51] <ReadError> IM IN ATLANTA!
[23:27:11] <ReadError> sweet jesus
[23:27:14] <ReadError> thats going to be nice
[23:27:43] <ssi> haha
[23:27:46] <ssi> what part of town?
[23:27:55] <ReadError> well
[23:27:59] <ReadError> i *live* north
[23:28:05] <ReadError> but i work in the heart of the A
[23:28:07] <ssi> how far north?
[23:28:11] <ssi> I live in kennesaw, but work in midtown
[23:28:12] <ReadError> very north :)
[23:28:18] <ReadError> ellijay area
[23:28:22] <ssi> gotcha
[23:28:24] <ssi> that's not that bad
[23:28:27] <ReadError> ya
[23:28:30] <ssi> I mean, it's bad, but it's not like south carolina bad :)
[23:28:37] <ReadError> lol
[23:28:43] <ReadError> wheres midtown?
[23:28:50] <ReadError> i dont get this big city lingo stuff
[23:28:58] <ReadError> i work near phillips arena / cnn
[23:29:06] <ssi> I work FOR cnn :)
[23:29:07] <ReadError> whetever thats called
[23:29:14] <ReadError> wuuut?
[23:29:17] <ssi> but I spend most of my time at the techwood campus, up north of gatech
[23:29:20] <ReadError> i eat food @ CNN
[23:29:26] <ReadError> ;p
[23:29:34] <ssi> I'm at cnn center every other week for an afternoon, but that's about it
[23:29:44] <ssi> I work for turner, not cnn specifically
[23:29:49] <ssi> but I support cnn's software
[23:29:59] <ssi> i'm a tech architect
[23:30:13] <ReadError> i just do server admin stuff ;(
[23:30:24] <ReadError> but ill be back @ ga tech
[23:30:26] <ReadError> here in the fall
[23:30:32] <ssi> nice
[23:30:36] <ssi> what program?
[23:30:53] <ReadError> want to do masters in info security
[23:31:25] <ssi> cool
[23:32:42] <ReadError> where is mcmasters at ?
[23:32:47] <ReadError> what part of town
[23:33:17] <ReadError> i can have stuff sent to work
[23:33:23] <ReadError> if its like super close
[23:33:30] <ReadError> and they dont let you pick it up
[23:44:40] <ssi> I don't know exactly