#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-02

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[00:00:20] <djdelorie> is there some magic to setting up a tool table from within the gcode file?
[00:07:44] <ssi> I was wondering how to do that earlier
[00:07:46] <ssi> let me know if you figure it out :)
[00:13:24] <djdelorie> it looks like the tool table is part of the machine description, not the job description.
[00:13:32] <ssi> yeah
[00:14:16] <ssi> also, I was wondering if it's possible to force a G43 after a tool change
[00:14:24] <ssi> I hate messing that one up
[00:14:37] <djdelorie> for now, I'm just toggling between tools 1 and 2, and "updating the tool table" on the fly with G10 L1
[00:15:51] <djdelorie> and/or using pause/message to simulate "tool change" manually
[00:16:16] <djdelorie> ok, how do you bring up the current tool info from the main GUI ?
[00:16:40] <ssi> axis shows the current tool in the status bar at the bottom
[00:16:46] <ssi> other than that, I don't know what you're asking
[00:17:19] <djdelorie> how do you bring up axis then?
[00:17:30] <ssi> axis is the default GUI
[00:17:47] <djdelorie> ah! There it is. It lies.
[00:18:13] <ssi> heheh
[00:18:23] <djdelorie> it ignores the G10 L1 changes
[00:18:34] <Jymmm> BINGO!
[00:18:35] <ssi> after you do the G10
[00:18:39] <ssi> try doing a reload tool table from the menu
[00:18:46] <djdelorie> oh wait, no it doesn't... I'm confusing radius and diameter...
[00:18:49] <djdelorie> grrr
[00:19:11] * Jymmm tosses in circumference in there too
[00:19:13] * djdelorie tweaks script again
[00:19:53] <Jymmm> I think I'm gonna need to take apart my heater tomorrow =(
[00:41:36] <ssi> hrm
[00:42:40] * djdelorie thinks it would be easier to generate one gcode file per drill size, so I can manually touch off each bit as needed, z-wise
[00:43:04] <djdelorie> linuxcnc doesn't seem to let you jog while the program is waiting for you to unpause it
[00:43:12] <ssi> that's been a common complaint lately
[00:43:16] <ssi> I think some folks have a way around that
[00:43:40] <djdelorie> I figured I could jog the cutter to me, swap bits, jog it back, zero the Z, and continue...
[00:43:40] <ssi> best option if you can manage it is to make your tool length repeatable
[00:44:52] <djdelorie> but... I can't jog it. Do I have to configure a manual changer that's always at a specific location, with a gauge plate available to act as a local zero?
[00:45:00] <djdelorie> that would be annoying
[00:45:13] <djdelorie> especially since drill bits vary in length
[00:45:26] <ssi> well if it makes you feel any better
[00:45:39] <ssi> be glad you only have to worry about length and diameter
[00:45:52] <djdelorie> and not the other 15 columns in the tool table? ;-)
[00:45:57] <ssi> yeah
[00:46:14] <ssi> tool tables for lathes are much bigger pain in the ass
[00:46:18] <djdelorie> yeah, I mentioned adding CNC to my lathe to my wife, she just looked at me funny...
[00:47:06] <ssi> I spend more time screwing with setup and zeroing tools than I do making parts :(
[00:47:42] <djdelorie> so far on my lathe, I've spent 100% of the time on setup, mostly because it's a semi-restoration :-)
[00:47:51] <ssi> yeah :)
[00:47:53] <djdelorie> I did a test cut, does that count?
[00:48:20] <djdelorie> I did manage to get it all cleaned and lubed over the weekend, at least the parts that need to be in order to do "normal" lathe things with it
[00:48:27] <ssi> how's it cut
[00:48:30] <djdelorie> half the gears are still un-de-rusted though.
[00:48:47] <djdelorie> straight, but not smooth. I was using the first tool I pulled out of the bucket so it's probably my fault
[00:49:00] <djdelorie> I was just testing the power feed
[00:49:02] <ssi> ever run a lathe before this one?
[00:49:19] <djdelorie> er, yes, but they were either (1) a wood lathe, or (2) too crappy to cut right
[00:49:50] <ssi> speeds and feeds are non-trivial
[00:49:56] <ssi> takes a lot of practice to get a good finish
[00:50:10] <djdelorie> yup. I've got a friend in town who's a machinist, I'm hoping he'll find time to teach me enough to get by
[00:50:42] <djdelorie> but at least any problems from now on will be my fault, and not the lathe's fault. Well, maybe the bit's fault ;-)
[00:51:03] <ssi> hopefully :)
[00:51:12] <mhaberler> djdelorie: look at master, and configs/sim/remap/manual-toolchange-with-tool-length-switch
[00:51:13] <ssi> I can't do crap with my manual lathe, and I think it's mostly the lathe's fault
[00:52:56] <djdelorie> mhaberler: thanks!
[00:53:29] <mhaberler> the jog-while-paused is on my longer term list, no ETA
[00:54:04] <djdelorie> it's rough trying to support big fully-automatic machines *and* small mostly-human machines at the same time, yes? ;-)
[00:54:36] <djdelorie> perhaps the python g-code remapper could take over M00 ?
[00:54:48] <mhaberler> had to jump a lot of hoops to get that one working (700+ commits)
[00:55:25] <djdelorie> perhaps it's safer for me to split the file up into one g-code file per drill bit then :-)
[00:55:32] <mhaberler> well, M0: Iet me see, I did something around that recently
[00:55:48] <djdelorie> as long as the X and Y part origins don't change, it should work fine
[00:56:27] <mhaberler> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/commit/ed8b97129a1b79667bb3180924cfead17fecb545
[00:56:39] <mhaberler> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/commit/43169eb9d69c7adedf19506257809eca10f9c5d9
[00:56:47] <ssi> djdelorie: what is your spindle?
[00:56:49] <Nick001> Finally got another video uploaded
[00:56:49] <Nick001> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKbGPS6bGzg
[00:57:02] <djdelorie> 1/8" die grinder
[00:57:11] <andypugh-iPhone> Hi
[00:57:37] <mhaberler> hi andy - great to hear you made it!
[00:58:08] <ssi> andy :)
[00:58:16] <djdelorie> the one in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHQffhbGyRE
[00:58:20] <ssi> djdelorie: do tools not bottom out in the collet or chuck you're using?
[00:58:34] <mhaberler> ok, M0 can be remapped
[00:58:59] <djdelorie> the bits are not all the same length, even within a given box of the same size. They're all reground pcb bits
[00:59:18] <ssi> djdelorie: yeah but you can put a caliper on them and put that length in a tool table
[00:59:49] <djdelorie> I'd have to keep track of which 0.013 bit is which, though
[01:00:01] <djdelorie> the spindle is this one: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Micro-Air-Grinder-17-pc-Kit/H8212
[01:00:19] <ssi> Nick001: your oil looks the same color as my oil
[01:00:40] <andypugh-iPhone> Ah, do this client "away"s me if I look at Yputube?
[01:00:41] <djdelorie> I think for now, it's easier to (1) split the job into one-file-per-bit so I can manually zero Z, and later (2) put in the switch-sense manual tool zeroing thing
[01:01:23] <djdelorie> mhaberler: the second half of that question is, can python re-enable jogging and touching off ?
[01:01:50] <mhaberler> nope, sorry - no ETA yet
[01:02:34] <djdelorie> ok, sticking with plan B then
[01:02:47] <mhaberler> I see the need, I want it myself, but when I last tried I didnt understand the implications well enough yet; it's marginally better now
[01:03:14] <mhaberler> (my understanding, not the functionality ;-)
[01:06:54] <djdelorie> understood; I maintain a few packages myself so I see it too
[01:09:29] <ssi> Nick001: part looks good
[01:10:49] <mhaberler> q whether this would fit your need: I thought about a rs274 code which would enable jogging during auto, and wait until done (say some hal pin); this isnt as general as jog-while-pause but could get most of the milage while being simpler to do?
[01:11:43] <djdelorie> like M00 but specific to linuxcnc ?
[01:12:13] <mhaberler> sort of; to mean 'when you come here, enable jogging until done'
[01:12:28] <andypugh-iPhone> This is no good. I will get back when I am actually home.
[01:12:36] <mhaberler> :-/
[01:12:44] <mhaberler> uh, oh.
[01:12:50] <Nick001> ssi - at least it's making parts for a change instead of collecting dust - have a lot of wires to get back into cabnets
[01:13:01] <mhaberler> anyway, gotta run - cu, folks
[01:13:02] <djdelorie> perhaps we're thinking of it wrong. Maybe we need a new type of tool changer that is "human is fiddling"
[01:13:02] <ssi> Nick001: definitely :)
[01:13:23] <ssi> Nick001: mine's back together and running again with the silver soldered coupler
[01:13:50] <ssi> Nick001: i had to do a bunch of messing with the home switch in there... stupid little wires on those terminal blocks are fragile
[01:13:58] <Nick001> saw that - hope it stands up
[01:14:28] <Nick001> did you get the pins out
[01:14:43] <ssi> yeah
[01:15:15] <ssi> one of them came out, and I soldered it back on
[01:15:21] <ssi> the other wouldn't come out and I soldered it in situ
[01:15:55] <Nick001> need the tool to get them out without breaking something
[01:15:59] <ssi> yeah
[01:16:06] <ssi> and I'm sure the tool is a billion dollars
[01:16:56] <Nick001> about 150 back in the early 80's from amp - remember that one well
[01:17:39] <Nick001> alot of money for what I got
[01:17:59] <Nick001> but at least it works
[01:18:58] <ssi> $430 from newark
[01:18:58] <ssi> heh
[01:19:11] <Nick001> ouch
[01:19:22] <ssi> I have enough multi-hundred dollar crimp/insertion/extraction tools, thankyouverymuch
[01:19:39] <ssi> amp 29250 terminal crimper is $1k for gods sake
[01:19:40] <Nick001> does newark have the pins?
[01:19:50] <ssi> yeah
[01:20:05] <ssi> http://www.newark.com/te-connectivity-amp/42574-3/connector-contact-pin-crimp/dp/93F7321
[01:20:08] <ssi> I think it's those?
[01:20:11] <ssi> $5 apiece is spendy
[01:21:01] <Nick001> about what hardinge gets if I remember - have a print to make them
[01:21:32] <ssi> hah
[01:21:36] <ssi> have you made any?
[01:22:29] <Nick001> not yet - bought enough to get 3 encoders hooked up
[01:22:53] <ssi> I'll probably keep my eyes open for the tools on ebay for a reasonable price
[01:22:56] <ssi> it'd be nice to have
[01:23:20] <ssi> I end up going through this damn cycle of ridiculously expensive connectors more often than I'd like
[01:23:41] <Nick001> add to your tool collection
[01:23:59] <Nick001> can't have enough -)
[01:24:00] <ssi> you don't understand
[01:24:24] <ssi> I have something like $15,000 retail price worth of aviation crimpers and tools
[01:24:38] <ssi> and some of the connectors themselves are $20 APIECE
[01:24:55] <ssi> but I buy the tools on ebay and a buddy brings me bags of connectors from delta :D
[01:25:13] <Nick001> now thats what you should be making
[01:25:30] <ssi> the connectors?
[01:25:44] <ssi> it's a four-part connector. Two gold plated machined pins and two plastic housings
[01:25:54] <ssi> and actually, the plastic housings themselvles are two parts, because they have a rubber strain relief boot
[01:26:56] <Nick001> guess they want them to stay connected at 30,000 feet - good idea
[01:27:10] <ssi> they're really nice connectors
[01:27:23] <ssi> push them together and they snap together easily, very secure
[01:27:25] <ssi> twist and pull to release
[01:30:04] <Nick001> time to get some sleep - later
[01:30:45] <ssi> night
[01:53:44] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:13:39] <Loetmichel> mornin
[02:13:42] <Loetmichel> '
[03:50:06] <MattyMatt> random lathe porn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwgobIVj4fU
[04:01:01] <Valen> 's some nice porn
[04:02:31] <MattyMatt> I wish I could afford 2 hydraulic chucks to do that
[04:04:11] <MattyMatt> I've got a plan involving a collet chuck being tightened by the spindle motor, but it seems complicated
[04:11:44] <archivist> MattyMatt, look at the citizen lathe porn there are two tool axes so both ends can work at the same time
[04:13:09] <Tecan> next project is a pick n place
[04:13:33] <Tecan> i need a bigger room
[04:35:16] <Thetawaves> i love how they left the burs on the part
[04:35:31] <Thetawaves> if they had done the final turning after drilling the holes, there would be no burs
[04:36:00] <Valen> there would still be burrs
[04:36:09] <Valen> they would just be inside the holes not sticking out
[05:11:36] <mhaberler> motion id zero: can somebody explain what this really means? No motion? end of queue?
[05:12:37] <mhaberler> oop,s wrong channel
[06:06:53] <archivist> Thetawaves, burs are also a sign of blunt tools :)
[06:09:29] <archivist> I made a gear Saturday and the burs between the teeth after final diameter turning forced me to make a second gear
[06:09:56] <archivist> top left is the second attempt http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/IMG_1214.JPG
[06:14:31] <jthornton> archivist, must have good eyes or eye helpers
[06:15:49] <archivist> I use a stereo zoom microscope to eyeball the swarf
[06:16:50] <archivist> worse when on the machine with the rotaries obscuring the view
[06:39:33] <jthornton> is the small gear on the shaft one piece?
[06:46:15] <Jymmm> jthornton: If you like puzzles... http://pastebin.com/WyDsdVNg
[06:51:33] <Tom_itx> how many _______ does it take to screw in a light bulb
[06:52:37] <archivist> jthornton, yup
[07:07:55] <mazafaka> Do you create the watches, archivist ?
[07:20:46] <ReadError> seems i will need a rotary table ;/
[07:33:52] <archivist> mazafaka, no, just spare parts
[07:34:13] <mazafaka> anyway, very specific work
[07:34:43] <archivist> or general as each job is different
[07:35:50] <mazafaka> each job is different, yeah.
[07:36:51] <mazafaka> details appear in a right shape only when you respect the level of difficulty of the task. Many things can go crooked way at any moment.
[07:37:38] <Tectu> guys, when i have simple L297/L298 Drivers, and I have on one Axis two motors, can i put both motors parallel on one driver, or isn't that good? (don't worry about the current)
[07:37:39] <archivist> ReadError, two rotaries stacked :)
[07:37:57] <ReadError> lol
[07:38:05] <archivist> Tectu, that sounds wrong
[07:38:18] <Tectu> archivist, i know, i just ask if it would work ;)
[07:38:46] <archivist> I dont think it will be very good at all
[07:39:12] <Tectu> archivist, how so?
[07:39:19] <Tectu> it's just double inductivity for the driver
[07:39:22] <archivist> you could possibly put the two in series
[07:39:47] <archivist> better to just get another driver
[07:40:15] <Tectu> why series?
[07:40:33] <archivist> better current sharing/control
[07:40:47] <Tectu> ah, better slopes?
[07:41:06] <Tectu> archivist, well, it's for a 3D Printer, so well... i don't need to mill 5000mm steal sheets ;)
[07:41:09] <archivist> define slope
[07:41:19] <Tectu> rising of the voltage/current?
[07:41:39] <archivist> no worse due to less across the coil
[07:43:31] <archivist> Tecan, is this for a gantry?
[07:44:41] <Tectu> i guess you mean me? what do you mean with gantry?
[07:46:00] <archivist> Im trying to find out why you are putting motors in parallel
[07:47:10] <archivist> this form with motors both sides http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine
[07:47:45] <ReadError> if a stepper motor misses a step, is there feedback so the controller knows?
[07:47:58] <ReadError> or that would require additional sensors correct?
[07:48:07] <ReadError> optical encoder
[07:48:33] <archivist> most dont have feedback
[07:48:51] <archivist> so dont allow lost steps
[07:50:03] <ReadError> gecko controllers the best for the home machinist?
[07:52:04] <jthornton> I use the 203v on all my stepper projects
[07:52:04] <archivist> some like them, I happen to use some chinese drivers, probably leadshine
[07:52:26] <jthornton> but the 251 is the same driver but scaled down
[10:15:40] <ssi> hrm
[10:24:53] <ssi> let's all think happy thoughts and hope I get a mesa box in the mail today
[10:40:59] * djdelorie is already thinking happy thoughts: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/osboard-cnc-015-closeup.html
[10:42:03] <ssi> nice
[10:42:11] <archivist> random holes! some close to a straight line :)
[10:42:17] <ssi> eheheheh
[10:42:57] <djdelorie> 409 0.0145" holes in 12 minutes, average 1.7 sec/hole. Drill feed 3 in/sec
[10:43:03] <djdelorie> ONE DRILL BIT
[10:44:03] <djdelorie> that's with the grizzly H8212 micro air grinder as a spindle and a resharpened pcb drill bit
[10:44:04] <archivist> removing the human does make tooling last longer :)
[10:44:31] <djdelorie> actually, I have a cantilever drill press I use for pcbs, I rarely break bits. But it takes forever and it's hard to get the hole in the right spot
[10:45:25] <djdelorie> the H8212 does spit oil on the pcb, though, something to consider. It has an inline oiler which works pretty well, the spindle head was cool to the touch at the end of the job
[10:45:38] <djdelorie> here's the whole board: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/osboard-cnc-015.html and I'm working on the video
[11:13:06] <djdelorie> just checked distances with the dial calipers; the Y direction is off by 0.1% (half a hole across the width of the board) but X and diagonals appear dead on :-) :-)
[11:13:40] <ssi> have you done any trace milling yet?
[11:14:27] <djdelorie> no, I have a UV film setup for etching
[11:14:54] <djdelorie> I can line up the films with a pre-drilled board with pretty good accuracy, done it before
[11:15:24] <djdelorie> hmmm... I can make my own solder paste stencils now...
[11:15:59] <djdelorie> I think I can mill a vacuum hold-down out of a piece of one-by wood, too.
[11:16:50] <djdelorie> here's a good shot of the spindle though (video in 20 more minutes): http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2604.html
[11:18:21] <djdelorie> most of the oil, and the exhaust air, goes up the clear tube surrounding the air hose. A little oil escapes through the head and spits out on the work piece.
[11:18:31] <djdelorie> The silver knurled part is the on/off/speed control
[11:19:48] <djdelorie> the runout is a LOT less than a dremel. Aside from spitting oil (which I suppose is good for the tool), I really like it
[11:20:42] <archivist> is the y error some backlash/play
[11:21:00] <djdelorie> I don't know. It's got an anti-backlash nut on it.
[11:21:25] <archivist> time for a dti and a test
[11:21:51] <djdelorie> the gcode generator does the Z plunge in two steps, to make sure it's stopped moving before it cuts. The Y screw itself might have some movement to it
[11:22:59] <djdelorie> I suppose I could script a "left, center, right, center, left, center, etc" drill pattern and see how well the holes line up. If I needed more accuracy. And if I thought I could fix it.
[11:23:46] <archivist> if backlash/play emc can compensate
[11:24:10] <djdelorie> true
[11:24:16] <archivist> but for pcb work far better to fix mechanically
[11:24:53] <djdelorie> one thing I did notice facing off the board under it, is that the router seems to tilt depending on which way it's travelling. The Z carriage seems to have some tilting play in it, which I knew about
[11:24:55] <archivist> or, what I do, approach from one direction
[11:25:42] <djdelorie> the code to sort the drills tries to minimize travel time. For a few thou it's not worth the hassle, my etching isn't that precise anyway
[11:26:13] <djdelorie> but I could put a 10 thou jog in before each hole if needed
[11:26:35] <archivist> the play in my lead screws is bigger than the teeth on the gear I made saturday
[11:27:05] <djdelorie> *that* sounds like a problem ;-)
[11:27:11] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/IMG_1214.JPG
[11:27:19] <archivist> gear on left :)
[11:27:39] <djdelorie> ok, WOW
[11:28:29] <djdelorie> were those done on a micro-lathe, or a full size one?
[11:29:01] <djdelorie> my micro-lathe has a huge amount of play in the toolholder, but my full size one doesn't
[11:29:25] <archivist> lathe is a little cnc Denford starturn for educational use, the milling is in the home made fugly mill
[11:29:51] <ssi> FuglyMill(tm)
[11:30:03] <djdelorie> I guess my question is, did you build a small precise tool to make small precise parts, or a big precise tool?
[11:30:07] <archivist> well it is fugly :)
[11:32:03] <archivist> was "designed" for gear cutting but other machines/items donated parts http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0268.JPG
[11:33:07] <djdelorie> I'd like to figure out how to cut gears on my big lathe, but that means figuring out how to hack an indexer onto it
[11:33:34] <djdelorie> I figure I could use the threading gears, just need some sort of tooth-catch-thing
[11:33:56] <archivist> add a worm to drive the gears
[11:35:40] <djdelorie> it's a 1922 South Bend. Adding *anything* to it is a tricky problem
[11:36:23] <djdelorie> I figure, I have a full gear set, I should be able to make gears with the same number of teeth as an existing gear, if I use the teeth as stops
[11:36:45] <archivist> a mandrel in the rear of the spindle
[11:37:04] <ssi> archivist: you're right,that IS ugly :D
[11:37:42] <archivist> but it does the job :)
[11:37:47] <ssi> clearly!
[11:40:30] <djdelorie> archivist: here's the gearbox: http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_2612.html
[11:42:55] <archivist> djdelorie, see hole in spindle, use an expanding mandrel to add a gear, add worm to the frame holding the switch and mount indexing plates on the worm or better a stepper
[11:43:36] <djdelorie> I figured I'd mount an indexing plate to the top threading gear mount (the tiny gear just under the direction gears)
[11:43:48] * archivist steals the faceplate he spots on the floor
[11:43:50] <djdelorie> assuming those two gears (spindle and top threading) have the same number of teeth
[11:44:12] <djdelorie> heh. I have to make a bigger derusting bath for that one. There's a chuck about that big too.
[11:44:39] <archivist> faceplate is the bit missing from my southbend
[11:45:07] <archivist> but its the later wartime toolroom model
[11:45:26] <djdelorie> the only things I haven't found yet, and they might still be at my in-laws house, are the T handle for the small chuck and the little oil stick for the dead center.
[11:46:08] <archivist> I would not mount the indexing down the gear chain due to added play and errors in the gears
[11:46:33] <djdelorie> good point. I thought of those because my existing gears *do* mount there.
[11:47:06] <archivist> also depends on types of gears you wish to make
[11:47:44] <djdelorie> I have no idea - yet. It was just something I thought of when I was telling my son all the things you can do with just a lathe.
[11:49:24] <archivist> this is what I think you can do http://www.jeffree.co.uk/pages/ml7dividing.htm
[11:50:06] <archivist> he is driving the back gear
[11:52:13] <djdelorie> my back gear has a cover on it that's hard to remove; the motor mount is bolted over it
[11:53:13] <archivist> back gear can have play, mounting something in the rear of the spindle could be better
[11:58:33] <djdelorie> how about a 9:1 or 27:1 timing belt system off the back? Driving that with a 200 count stepper gives lots of division options
[11:58:52] <djdelorie> or 21:1 if you need a divide-by-7
[12:01:14] <djdelorie> in my case, though, it might make more sense to mount a rotary table to the tool holder, and use the lathe to drive the cutter
[12:02:46] <djdelorie> ah! the video is ready: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
[12:03:12] <archivist> or add a milling machine to the collection :)
[12:07:00] <djdelorie> I suppose. Three lathes and no milling machines is a little unfair... well, besides the cnc one, but I don't know if it can cut metal at all.
[12:07:56] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the world
[12:08:09] <djdelorie> hi!
[12:08:21] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:29:10] <djdelorie> mhaberler: I ended up writing out separate files for each drill size. I need to debug it, axis adds a coordinate way off in space in the 3D display, but never travels there, and gets the tool wrong too. Cuts OK though.
[12:29:13] <alex4nder> hey
[12:30:23] <mhaberler> djdelorie: using which config? if affects some of my code, I'd like to reproduce it
[12:31:25] <archivist> or just not touched off properly
[12:31:46] <djdelorie> the config for my machine. I can boot it up and get a copy if you want to look at it.
[12:32:05] <djdelorie> I have the gcode up here though
[12:32:48] <djdelorie> it must have been touched off right, because it drilled in the right spots. The extents included a point somewhere around (-17,-25) inches or so.
[12:33:25] <djdelorie> it's probably something stupid, "newbie" and all, I just need to experiment a little and figure out what it was
[12:35:55] <mhaberler> hm, any TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION in the ini?
[12:39:56] <djdelorie> no
[12:41:36] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/cnc/
[12:44:09] <mhaberler> nothing obvious; what do you mean by 'gets the tools wrong' - number? offsets or something?
[12:45:00] <djdelorie> it draws the big cone and says "no tool" despite the G10 L1 line
[12:45:07] <djdelorie> the simulator seemed to get it right
[12:45:26] <mhaberler> try explicitly changing to a tool with t1m6
[12:45:37] <mhaberler> then it should reflect diameter
[12:46:09] <mhaberler> the g10 l1 changes attributes (offsets me thinks) but not tool and hence not preview
[12:47:00] <djdelorie> I'll need to test that and see where it moves the carriage to when it wants a tool change. Don't want it mashed into the table...
[12:47:29] <djdelorie> (and yes, my Z is now -4..0 ;)
[12:48:39] <djdelorie> Rechecked Y with two not-quite-furthest-out holes, and it's dead on!
[12:49:05] <djdelorie> mhaberler: you missed the video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1y6Eq19EU
[12:53:16] <mhaberler> do I see some error there? so far drilling, a bit oil cooled ;)
[12:55:32] <djdelorie> the H8212 micro die grinder spits out a bit of oil out the front. Most goes out the back (the clear tube). Error seems to be +- 0.005" of so across 4 inches
[12:55:46] <djdelorie> the grinder tip was cool to the touch after 12 minutes of operation though
[12:55:53] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: why are you moving so far up ?
[12:56:26] <djdelorie> because it was the first time I'd ever done that, I didn't know if the pcb would flex up on retract, and it gives the XY time to settle before it starts drilling
[12:57:00] <djdelorie> if that bit hits anything sideways, it will snap right off - it's only 0.0145" diameter.
[12:57:05] <IchGuckLive> ok 1.5 tread is enoph to go up
[12:57:23] <djdelorie> what is "1.5 tread" ?
[12:57:23] <tom3p> hello, where are the MD5sums for the new iso images?
[12:57:46] <IchGuckLive> if your Z tread is 3mm go up 4.5mm
[12:58:07] <djdelorie> it's not UP that's the problem, it's DOWN. The carriage needs to stop shaking before the drill hits the pcb
[12:58:16] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: so your out of the backlash
[12:59:03] <djdelorie> ah, that thread. 0.062" for me - Z is hardware store 3/8-16 all-thread
[12:59:06] <IchGuckLive> djdelorie: therfore pcb-gcode is using on e major direction
[12:59:24] <djdelorie> it's not pcb-gcode, its my own perl script.
[13:00:30] <IchGuckLive> ok up to you if you go one major dir then your always fixed BUt you optimise short ways
[13:00:51] <djdelorie> do you mean X and Y?
[13:01:01] <IchGuckLive> yes
[13:01:48] <djdelorie> ah. I was fiddling with those last night. I ended up with something that was a reasonable minimum-path through the hole sites. I didn't put in anything for X and Y backlash
[13:02:06] <IchGuckLive> if the main IC's are along x i optimise Y and if the ic's are along Y i optimise X
[13:03:15] <djdelorie> I did a "closest next hole" loop, followed by a "see if swapping holes helps" filter
[13:03:33] <IchGuckLive> so i go in Zig zag only one time Xor Y over the PCB
[13:03:40] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/cnc/pcbdrill2gcode
[13:03:51] <mhaberler> minimum path: that looks like its a useful tsp optimizer: http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~neto/research/lk/
[13:04:07] <djdelorie> I tried the zig-zag path, it was a LOT longer than it needed to be
[13:04:56] <djdelorie> another thing I want to add is "if the tool path crosses itself, swap those paths"
[13:05:25] <IchGuckLive> DJ agree but as i said one axis is always in the force position no backwards move
[13:05:41] <mhaberler> give lk a try.. really easy to use. pipe coords to it, get optimzed coord sequence back
[13:06:10] <djdelorie> I'd have to test to see which axis is the better one. Might be faster to hit just off the hole so the final motion is always in the same direction
[13:06:21] <IchGuckLive> mhaberler: for drils only or even pcb mill
[13:07:20] <mhaberler> it can optimize path sequences where end != start (like holes are end==start)
[13:08:03] <IchGuckLive> ill have alook
[13:15:14] <IchGuckLive> im off have a nice day wherever you are in the world
[13:30:55] <JT-Shop> ssi, I got my spindle remote start/stop buttons working on the BP 7i77
[13:31:56] <Tom_itx> woot!
[13:32:44] <JT-Shop> I think I'll celebrate with a nap
[14:40:18] <ssi> JT-Shop: grats :)
[14:40:43] <JT-Shop> I feel better now!
[14:42:31] <ssi> no mesa box today :(
[14:42:37] <djdelorie> :-(
[14:43:17] <frysteev_> ssi: call PCW and complain!
[15:44:02] <gene_> hey guys
[15:44:36] <djdelorie> hi
[15:44:54] <gene_> How, in .hal, do I reduce the size of the stepping in spindle speed?
[15:45:26] <cradek> I don't get what you mean, can you elaborate?
[15:45:34] <gene_> I'm only getting about 8 steps from 1% tp 100%
[15:45:55] <gene_> This is in the pwmgen settings
[15:45:57] <cradek> what kind of steps are you talking about?
[15:47:05] <gene_> In axis, click on start spindle, pulses start, at about 1% duty cycle. Click plus button once, get about 19% duty cycle
[15:47:55] <cradek> are you running software pwmgen? if so you have to expect some granularity because the output can only change on the base period. if you need more levels of pwm output, you have to decrease the frequency
[15:48:25] <djdelorie> or add hardware :-)
[15:48:29] <gene_> That IIRC is currently set at 100, whatever that means
[15:48:53] <cradek> did you check out the pwmgen manpage? you might be interested in dither-pwm and pwm-freq settings
[15:48:54] <gene_> lemme go get that line of the .hal
[15:51:44] <gene_> stanza looks like this ,but I didn't generate it, and stepconfig won't run
[15:51:54] <gene_> net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
[15:51:55] <gene_> net spindle-enable <= motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable
[15:51:57] <gene_> net spindle-pwm <= pwmgen.0.pwm
[15:51:58] <gene_> setp pwmgen.0.pwm-freq 100.0
[15:52:00] <gene_> setp pwmgen.0.scale 1506.32911392
[15:52:01] <gene_> setp pwmgen.0.offset 0.00336134453782
[15:52:03] <gene_> setp pwmgen.0.dither-pwm true
[15:52:04] <gene_> net spindle-ccw <= motion.spindle-reverse
[15:52:47] <micges> gene_: spindle speed is changes +-100 when you hit + or - button in Axis
[15:52:51] <micges> it is hardcoded
[15:53:22] <cradek> gene_: http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/pwmgen.9.html
[15:53:30] <gene_> So the scale becomes the step size then?
[15:53:30] <Thetawaves> in a related vein, how would i get linuxcnc to execute a shell command to set tool speed in rpm?
[15:54:13] <cradek> Thetawaves: you'd have to write a userland hal component that monitors the commanded spindle speed pin.
[15:56:30] <cradek> gene_: the spindle speed command is in RPM. it's up to you to set pwmgen's parameters to give you the output you need for whatever your spindle expects
[15:59:36] <gene_> I was going by that, and I expect to have to play with it once I get all this on the lathe and can read spindle speed with the encoder I built
[16:00:05] <gene_> This is just playing on the test bench as I assemble stuff
[16:00:56] <gene_> larger SCALE = smaller steps, somewhat counter-intuitive :)
[16:01:58] <gene_> Now, how can I restrict the pwmgen to a maximum of 99%?
[16:02:16] <cradek> by reading the manpage at the above link
[16:02:55] <gene_> whiuch I moved to another screen, thanks Chris I'll go read up :)
[16:03:32] <cradek> it's configurable in every imaginable way :-)
[16:05:36] <Jymmm> Only 50% max in leap years!
[16:06:48] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:07:02] <Jymmm> laters DJ9DJ
[16:32:21] <alex4nder> hey
[16:33:42] <micges> hi
[17:08:32] <JT-Shop> does G93 work properly with a SCARA type machine?
[17:08:52] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=18&id=18927#18936
[17:24:33] <alex4nder> yoh
[17:26:02] <Oscar> Hi, some body knows were can i find some examples of modbus RTU on classicladder?
[17:34:25] <KimK> <join>Heydoesanybodyhaveananswertomyquestion?<quit>
[17:35:10] <JT-Shop> LOL
[17:37:03] <KimK> Hi JT, how's it going?
[17:40:23] <JT-Shop> Hi Kim, going good a bit hot for this time of year
[17:41:12] <JT-Shop> finally got past using two #303 cans and a string to connect to the internet :)
[17:41:54] * JT-Shop is off to till my neighbors garden
[17:44:54] <KimK> JT-Shop: Excellent! Then quad congrats are due you: satellite internet, 2.5.0 docs, spindle start/stop buttons, and your gloves saving your thumb! Thanks for all your hard work on the docs, sorry I couldn't help finish the mess I started.
[17:53:32] <JT-Shop> np, actually the gloves didn't do much to slow down the cut off wheel... only nervous reaction saved my finger iI think
[17:54:08] * JT-Shop waits for the battery charger to do its magic...
[18:10:02] <ssi> I really need to come up with some cam
[18:10:06] <ssi> I keep ruining things with manual gcode :(
[18:10:41] <ssi> just accidentally parted off a .750" diameter barrel with a carbide VNMG tool at 2ipm because I mixed up a Z and an X
[18:10:44] <ssi> hahahaha
[18:10:45] <archivist> cut air first
[18:10:54] <ssi> I mean manual as in conversational
[18:10:59] <ssi> not handwritten programs
[18:13:59] <alex4nder> ssi: yah, seriously
[18:14:05] <alex4nder> after I'm done with my enclosure.. it's CAM time
[18:14:15] <ssi> alex4nder: hurry up i need it! :D
[18:14:33] <ssi> I'm starting to think along the lines of just a simple little command line program that will do... something
[18:14:36] <ssi> I don't know what yet though :(
[18:16:13] <alex4nder> that's what I've written
[18:16:22] <ssi> oh yea?
[18:16:33] <alex4nder> pocket.py trigger_pocket.py collet_holder.py
[18:16:50] <alex4nder> a bunch of macros
[18:16:57] <alex4nder> so I just create pockets and whatever where I want them
[18:17:03] <ssi> mill cam?
[18:17:27] <alex4nder> in this case, yah
[18:17:37] <ssi> :'(
[18:17:47] <ssi> mill cam is a dime a dozen
[18:17:59] <alex4nder> it's not like lathe cam is a paradigm shift
[18:18:30] <ssi> seems like it is
[18:19:19] <alex4nder> you could write a conversational lathe toolkit in a couple hours
[18:19:59] <ssi> I hope so
[18:20:10] <ssi> so where should I start
[18:20:21] <alex4nder> start with the common operations you want to perfrom
[18:20:33] <alex4nder> and then turn them into "words" and merge those "words" into "sentences"
[18:20:37] <ssi> OD and facing are simple enough
[18:20:41] <ssi> it's profiling that I'm not sure about
[18:20:55] <ssi> cause a) how do you specify the profile
[18:21:08] <ssi> b) what do you do about backcuts that the tool doesn't have clearance for
[18:23:05] <alex4nder> well that's where the big money is spent
[18:23:41] <alex4nder> if your profile is easily described in a parametric form, then you could implement some really basic peel milling on this form
[18:23:50] <alex4nder> even if you specified it with a raster, you could do some interesting scripting with it
[18:29:51] <JT-Shop> ssi, you got ngcgui working yet?
[18:30:00] <ssi> JT-Shop: I've used it for ages on the little lathe
[18:30:04] <ssi> it's not setup on the hardinge yet
[18:30:49] <JT-Shop> b) use a different tool!
[18:31:02] <JT-Shop> sorry AC is borked...
[18:31:31] * JT-Shop grabs some nutdrivers and goes to take it apart...
[18:42:49] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the new AC is ?
[18:44:52] <jthornton> Jymmm, fan motor or control, unsure atm which is bad... I replaced the cap this morning and it ran all day...
[18:45:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: new unit or old?
[18:45:46] <Jymmm> jthornton: new unit or old?
[18:55:04] <JT-Shop> the air handler and heater part are what I installed when I built the house
[18:55:20] <Jymmm> oh the house, I thought the garage or shop AC
[18:55:27] <Jymmm> window unit
[18:59:59] <jthornton> I would not be worried about the shop or garage...
[19:00:21] <jthornton> and the winner is the motor! smells like burnt toast gone bad
[19:00:43] <jthornton> good thing I have at least 2 to pick from left over from another life
[19:00:49] <Jymmm> jthornton: Well, as long at the sealed part is in good order, you'll be good.
[19:01:16] <jthornton> yea, the only issue is the blower motor
[19:01:34] <Jymmm> jthornton: MIL's make good blowers!!!
[19:01:42] <jthornton> LOL
[19:01:51] <Tom_itx> that's hot air though
[19:01:59] <Jymmm> put all that hot air to good use!
[19:02:02] <jthornton> well not my MIL!
[19:02:11] <jthornton> she is very nice to me
[19:02:20] <Jymmm> jthornton: show her the DMV letter...
[19:02:47] <jthornton> she got it first... and that is over with now and almost forgotten...
[19:03:09] <Jymmm> jthornton: No, I mean whenever you need a blast of hot air, show her the letter
[19:03:14] * jthornton is off to the shop to pick out a new motor
[19:03:28] <Jymmm> jthornton: THE BLUE ONE! PICK THE BLUE ONE!
[19:04:12] <djdelorie> THEY'RE ALL BLUE!!!!!
[19:04:32] <Jymmm> the Blue one with stars and bunnies on it!
[19:04:47] <djdelorie> Captain Ameribunny ?
[19:05:13] <Jymmm> Jessica Rabbit's sister!
[20:45:08] <Jymmm> I need to "glue" two 2mm diameter rods together end-to-end. One of the rods is only 0.5cm long and will have striking force applied to it. Any suggestions as to what "glue" to use?
[20:47:00] <Tom_itx> you didn't specify the material
[20:47:29] <Jymmm> nylon and carbide
[20:50:02] <Tom_itx> what sort of striking force
[20:50:29] <Jymmm> ice pick
[20:50:43] <Tom_itx> nylon handle?
[20:50:52] <Jymmm> nylon rod
[20:51:15] <Jymmm> ice ick type of force
[20:51:19] <pfred1> krazy glue
[20:51:28] <djdelorie> trying to scale the mightly ice cube?
[20:51:32] <Jymmm> ice pick type of force, so what's tha,t 30-40 ft lbs?
[20:51:45] <pfred1> djdelorie hey DJ
[20:51:49] <djdelorie> hi
[20:52:03] <Tom_itx> limited what you can glue nylon or carbide with successfully
[20:52:10] <Jymmm> pfred1: I think it be too brittle
[20:52:16] <Tom_itx> let alone the combination of them
[20:52:31] <pfred1> Jymmm you neen krazy glue's latest commercial where the guy bungee jumps with a coupling glued together?
[20:52:37] <Tom_itx> not many 'glues' will adhere to nylon
[20:53:02] <Jymmm> pfred1: Well, that's easy, lots of surface area.
[20:53:10] <pfred1> Tom_itx kind of like the if teflon is so slippery how to they make it stick riddle?
[20:53:25] <djdelorie> teflon primer
[20:53:26] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Well, it could be expoxy, liquid nails, whatever
[20:53:37] <pfred1> djdelorie I heard they sand blast the pans
[20:53:56] <Tom_itx> pfred1 some adhersions are done with a charge applied to them
[20:54:12] <Tom_itx> to better the chemical bond
[20:54:20] <pfred1> Jymmm I've been having some bad luck with epoxies lately
[20:54:38] <Jymmm> pfred1: even jb weld?
[20:54:41] <djdelorie> Jymmm: silicone ?
[20:54:42] <pfred1> I hate those new twin injector tubes
[20:54:48] <Tom_itx> i would suggest the 'pink' epoxy used in aircraft bonding
[20:54:56] <pfred1> Jymmm JG weld still comes in the nice lead squeeze tubes
[20:54:56] <Jymmm> djdelorie: RTV? I'd think would break under force.
[20:55:06] <pfred1> JB even
[20:55:15] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: aircraft or medical is what I'm thining
[20:55:22] <pfred1> and JB weld does work great stuff is expensive though
[20:55:26] <Jymmm> but I'm not familure with either
[20:55:28] <djdelorie> very little sticks to nylon though, silicone is one of them. Or hot glue. Or melt the nylon onto the carbide
[20:55:40] <djdelorie> JB weld is just epoxy with metal filings in it
[20:55:45] * pfred1 lives close to Nylon City
[20:55:48] <Tom_itx> the 'pink' epoxy bonds like you wouldn't believe
[20:56:00] <pfred1> which is pretty much a ghost town since DuPont pulled out
[20:56:01] <Tom_itx> but i'm not entirely sure about it's bond to nylon
[20:56:30] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Hmmmm, I could melt, I have enough thermal stuff around here (Only 180,000 feet on NiChrome left though)
[20:57:01] <Jymmm> s/on/of/
[20:57:24] <pfred1> if it was me I'd thread the nylon and tap the rod
[20:57:27] <djdelorie> If you could turn a spike on the end of the carbide, heat the nylon, and press it over the spike... ?
[20:57:39] <pfred1> oh carbide forget tapping it
[20:57:45] <djdelorie> or a barb, like for plastic water pipe
[20:58:01] <Tom_itx> nylon isn't gonna stand up to 'striking force'
[20:58:14] <Jymmm> I could just heat the nylon and JAB the carbide into it,
[20:58:21] <djdelorie> if the nylon is just pushing the carbide to do the strike...
[20:58:47] <Tom_itx> and the carbide is very likely to shatter with 'striking force'
[20:59:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: This isn't air hammer forc,e it's ice pick type force.
[20:59:14] <Tom_itx> poor choice of materials imo
[20:59:17] <djdelorie> google for "glue nylon". I think most adhesives will stick to carbide if it's scored or scratched first
[20:59:21] <pfred1> Tom_itx by mistake once i cut through a thick steel bracket with a crabide tipped circular saw
[20:59:38] <pfred1> Tom_itx you'd be surprised how well the blade held up i know I was
[20:59:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: sometimes you dont have a CHOICE of materials
[20:59:57] <Tom_itx> it will cut but it will also shatter
[21:00:03] <djdelorie> heh. I cut through an aluminum fence with a carbide saw blade. Left a mirror finish on the aluminum. Did that to a nail once too, same results.
[21:00:39] <pfred1> djdelorie I've been hearing to cut aluminum good with a circular saw run the saw blade backwards it doesn't grab as much
[21:01:21] <pfred1> carbide doesn't care about its rake so much
[21:01:21] <djdelorie> this was a high-end plywood blade. Many teeth, very sharp. I didn't even *notice* it going through the aluminum at first
[21:01:40] <Jymmm> pfred1: I've cut aluminum angle with my table saw , leaves a GREAT finish, the onyl thing is the flying chips - THEY GET EVERYWHERE!!!! haird, shoes, underwear, EVERYWHERE!!!
[21:01:54] <pfred1> yeah the chips are hot if they hit you too
[21:02:07] <pfred1> I've cut half inch plate on my table saw
[21:02:16] <pfred1> it is nasty but it does it
[21:02:17] <Jymmm> not hot like chopsaw or granider hot
[21:02:44] <Jymmm> nothign a blade shield wouldn't resolve
[21:02:56] <pfred1> just wear long sleeves
[21:03:05] <Jymmm> so who STILL has the blade shiled on their table saw still?
[21:03:06] <Valen> I'd be worried about ripping the carbide tips off running it backwards
[21:03:24] <pfred1> Valen yeah it could happen
[21:03:37] <djdelorie> I had a similar problem cleaning my lathe gears. Used a brass wire wheel in a dremel; as the wires came out they impaled my shirt. Learned to use the dremel left-handed after that
[21:03:47] <Tom_itx> certainly all the cutting angles are wrong doing that too
[21:04:12] <pfred1> djdelorie run a cup brush on an angle grinder nothing like picking the wires out of your face after that
[21:04:12] <Valen> wire wheels are nasty as a rule
[21:04:17] <Jymmm> djdelorie: first problem, using dremel tooling.
[21:04:30] <Valen> why do dremels all suck so hard?
[21:04:39] <djdelorie> I was cleaning out between the teeth, anything bigger wouldn't fit. I have a bench grinder wheel for the rest of the metal
[21:04:46] <pfred1> the trick with wire wheels is use them at half their rated speed
[21:04:54] <Jymmm> OH, what glue do thet use to attach stuff to manderels?
[21:05:10] <djdelorie> pressure, probably.
[21:05:11] <pfred1> but to get really good high speed wire wheels yo uare going to pay for them
[21:05:16] <Tom_itx> mandrel glue
[21:05:31] * Jymmm smacks Tom_itx with silly putty!
[21:05:32] <djdelorie> yup. The cheap chinese wheels fell apart quickly, the dremel brand ones lasted longer
[21:05:49] <pfred1> djdelorie well the speed rating is how you judge the overall quality of a wheel
[21:06:06] <djdelorie> the rating on the chinese ones was "yes" :-P
[21:06:21] <pfred1> on my bench grinder now I buy the 6800 RPM ones and they hold up way better than the 3600 RPM rated ones
[21:06:50] <Valen> for cleaning between gears I would just use a wire brush and do it by hand, it'd only take a minute
[21:06:56] * djdelorie wonders if shellac will stick to nylon...
[21:07:11] <pfred1> shellac is the wonder finish
[21:07:13] <Jymmm> djdelorie: for two minutes at least
[21:07:27] <djdelorie> my wire brush was too big too. The dremel wheel was *exactly* the right size, worked perfectly. Until it wore out.
[21:08:59] * djdelorie wonders if he has some nylon to test that with...
[21:09:31] <pfred1> they reformulated nylon so it'd fail in pantyhose
[21:09:47] <djdelorie> hmm... grass trimmer string?
[21:09:49] <pfred1> the original formulation was too good
[21:10:17] <Tom_itx> kevlar
[21:10:38] <pfred1> yeah lets hope they didn't reformulate that because it stops too many bullets
[21:11:12] <pfred1> the original bulletproof vests were made out of silk
[21:11:42] <pfred1> as far as fibers go I think there is still some spider web better than anything man made
[21:11:53] <djdelorie> carbon nanotubes ?
[21:12:15] * djdelorie goes off looking for nylon...
[21:12:16] <pfred1> I hear a lot about the stuff but where is it?
[21:12:30] <Valen> spiderweb is better in many respects
[21:12:33] <djdelorie> still too hard to make long enough chains to make useful cable lengths
[21:12:36] <Valen> mainly its energy absorbtion
[21:12:43] <pfred1> yeah spiders still have us beat
[21:12:48] <Valen> actually they have made some rather long nanotubes
[21:12:54] <pfred1> they just crap the stuff out
[21:13:02] <Valen> they will be stronger than spider silk, but not as energy absorbing
[21:13:27] <Valen> its tensile strength, vs elongation to fail
[21:13:28] <pfred1> I got some sicked spiders here
[21:13:32] <pfred1> wicked even
[21:14:24] <pfred1> get a load of this evil looking one http://i.imgur.com/c7e13.jpg
[21:14:35] <pfred1> you can see the gleam in its eye
[21:14:41] <Valen> lol
[21:14:51] <Valen> pfred1: where are you again?
[21:15:04] <pfred1> Valen it was right under my computer stand I heard it hit when it landed
[21:15:14] <djdelorie> found the string trimmer reel, doesn't say "nylon" on it
[21:15:19] <pfred1> Valen southern Delaware
[21:15:24] <Valen> ahh
[21:15:33] <pfred1> djdelorie nylon is some expensive stuff
[21:15:35] <Valen> <- australian, we have real spiders
[21:15:55] <jdhnc> if it will kill you, australia has it?
[21:16:00] <pfred1> Valen by my pool once i swear to god this thing went by and I'd say it was a tarantula
[21:16:09] <Valen> some of the birds are ok jdhnc ;->
[21:16:26] <Valen> though they still take a piece out of you lol
[21:16:35] <pfred1> I figured it was someone's pet that escaped because I'm pretty sure tarantulas aren't native to where I am at
[21:16:51] <pfred1> it was the size of my hand and furry though
[21:17:16] <pfred1> I had a spider sting me it was under my deck handrail
[21:17:25] <pfred1> my hand blew up for like a week
[21:19:24] <pfred1> I call these spiders zipperheads because they make this zipper looking pattern in their webs http://i.imgur.com/11r4k.jpg
[21:22:54] <pfred1> I ordered the PSU for my new junky PC last night
[21:23:13] <pfred1> I'm stoked to try running LinuxCNC on it
[21:24:01] <jdhnc> my last junky pc sucked for linuxcnc. I spent $150 on an intel atom board, mem, case/ps.
[21:24:17] <Valen> http://vimeo.com/17517733 #australia ;->
[21:24:31] <pfred1> jdhnc the atoms do seem to work well
[21:24:36] <Tom_itx> yup
[21:24:37] <djdelorie> I'm running an old dual-P3 800MHz. I get an RTAI error every time I start it, but it works fine anyway (and yes, I've run the latency test)
[21:25:13] <jdhnc> the $150 was worth it, if only for getting a tiny box.
[21:25:20] <pfred1> djdelorie I have a single 1 GHz P3 I am using now for LinuxCNC
[21:25:24] <Tom_itx> i like the box i got
[21:25:39] <Tom_itx> like 45 with psu iirc
[21:25:51] <djdelorie> the only problem with that box, is that the usb ports don't work, so I had to run an ethernet cable to it to copy gcode files to it
[21:26:08] <jdhnc> mine was 50ish from amazon
[21:26:12] <pfred1> jdhnc I looked at the atom systems but $150 only seems to buy a bare bones to me needs storage and some other stuff
[21:26:25] <Tom_itx> newegg here
[21:26:31] <Valen> they should be ~$100
[21:26:41] <Valen> or less
[21:26:42] <pfred1> Tom_itx newegg is getting kind of pricy
[21:26:47] <jdhnc> pfred1: I have spare disks. The $150 was board/mem/case.
[21:27:10] <djdelorie> newegg has a refub 2.6GHz for $95, 512MB 40GB, keyboard+mouse
[21:27:13] <jdhnc> p-port and one pci slot
[21:27:26] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[21:27:30] <Tom_itx> it went up a bit
[21:27:35] <Tom_itx> but it's nice n small
[21:28:07] <pfred1> djdelorie check out what i just bagged for a buck http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?c=220&s=1519&ID=847245&P=F
[21:28:37] <pfred1> I went to a sale at a senior center and it was sitting on a dollar table
[21:28:46] <djdelorie> you suck! ;-)
[21:28:56] <pfred1> well it had some issues
[21:29:04] <jdhnc> I had a $100 amazon gift card I'd never used so I went with amazon
[21:29:06] <pfred1> like this is what i think happened
[21:29:16] <pfred1> first they broke the vga connector on the motherboard
[21:29:17] <djdelorie> I probably should dig through my pile-o-crap and put together a better PC
[21:29:28] <pfred1> then they figured it was something else so they put in a new PSU
[21:29:35] <pfred1> but they put in the wrong PSU
[21:29:46] <pfred1> then they gave up
[21:30:30] <pfred1> but after I sorted all of that out it ran like a champ
[21:31:20] <pfred1> they had a PSU in it with a 20 pin mobo connector and i tried a good PSU here with just the 20 pinner in there and it didn't run
[21:31:33] <pfred1> you need to hook up the other 4 pins
[21:32:18] <pfred1> it was weird because the PSU I pulled out of it had run in something enough to collect dust and blow up itself
[21:32:47] <pfred1> I have to admit that threw me for a bit
[21:33:09] <pfred1> I was like how could this have ever worked?
[21:33:59] <pfred1> I should email the guy who owned the machine before me I have all his data on the HDD :)
[21:35:17] <Valen> heh
[21:35:40] <pfred1> I have to admit it is the most boring machine I've ever browsed
[21:36:08] <pfred1> I do know all about the senior center's finances now though
[21:36:19] <Tom_itx> i pulled the chip off a mb once to find the plastic still on the heatsink and the barcode on the bottom of the chip was burned
[21:36:35] <Tom_itx> cpu
[21:36:48] <pfred1> Tom_itx I got a junk system once and when they replaced the mobo they left the conductive foam under it
[21:36:50] <djdelorie> my mom cooked a pizza that way.
[21:36:51] <djdelorie> once
[21:37:12] <pfred1> Tom_itx before i pulled the board out yo ureally couldn't see it either
[21:37:12] <Tom_itx> it was given to me free because they couldn't figure out why it kept overheating
[21:37:15] <djdelorie> left the cardboard under it
[21:37:20] <pfred1> I mean they did a really neat job of getting it in there
[21:37:41] <Tom_itx> the chip was still good believe it or not
[21:37:56] <pfred1> Tom_itx the sad fact is about 90% of people who use computers shouldn't
[21:38:34] <pfred1> djdelorie that has happened to me sometimes it just freezes there I've done one worse though
[21:38:35] <djdelorie> "I know what your problem is. Do you have the original box? Yes? Good. Send the computer back, you're too dumb to own one."
[21:39:00] <pfred1> djdelorie you know them rolls of pastries with the frosted topping?
[21:39:10] <djdelorie> sticky buns?
[21:39:25] <pfred1> djdelorie there is a metal disk in there and i left it attached to one of the things when I baked it I almost broke a tooth on that
[21:39:29] <djdelorie> crap, now I want sticky buns...
[21:39:58] <pfred1> cinnamon swirls
[21:40:02] <pfred1> that is what it is
[21:40:07] <djdelorie> same thing
[21:40:20] <pfred1> man that disk got me I've done the pizza one too
[21:40:30] <pfred1> but I think when I did it there were two disks
[21:40:56] <pfred1> so I'm chalking that one up to a manufacturing defect
[21:41:00] <djdelorie> two cupcake cups. Remove the cup, eat, still get paper in your mouth
[21:42:23] <pfred1> where has cradek been lately?
[21:44:00] <cradek> most recently, working my ass off for all you folks
[21:44:10] <pfred1> cradek hey there you are
[21:44:16] <djdelorie> er, thank you?
[21:44:29] <cradek> :-)
[21:49:01] <djdelorie> hmmm... what kind of latency/performance do I need to output 100,000 step pulses per second?
[21:49:44] <cradek> you need at least a 10 microsecond base thread, which is pretty darn fast
[21:49:44] <pfred1> a nanosecond is a billionth of a second so
[21:50:02] <djdelorie> can the parallel port even go that fast?
[21:50:09] <cradek> sure
[21:50:28] <cradek> or it's trivially easy with an external step generator
[21:51:03] <pfred1> djdelorie for real performance you have to go with the mesa boards
[21:51:11] <pfred1> they waste parallel ports
[21:51:12] <cradek> if you need 100k pulses/sec, best approaches are to fix it to require fewer (often microstep settings) or use a step generator
[21:51:17] <djdelorie> pondering the reasons why my machine isn't running at its fastest speeds. Might need to reduce the microsteps for now
[21:51:37] <djdelorie> I can set my drivers to anything from 4 to 4000 steps per rotation :-)
[21:51:58] <djdelorie> it's at 2000 now, which is pretty smooth, but limited to about 1-2 in/sec on X
[21:52:07] <pfred1> djdelorie I'm still waiting for a webpage about those drivers
[21:52:17] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
[21:52:36] <XXPCWXX> 4 steps /turn might be a bit lumpy
[21:52:37] <cradek> 800 would be a common resolution for a good stepper setup
[21:52:40] <djdelorie> OTOH my screw drives start to vibrate if they turn too fast.
[21:52:54] <pfred1> what pitch thread?
[21:53:47] <pfred1> I'm using 10 TPI acme and now i know why people use multistart or ball screws
[21:53:50] <djdelorie> X is 10 TPI with 31:24 gearing, Y is 2 with 16:24, and Z is 16 with 16:24.
[21:54:04] <pfred1> yeah with 10 TPI I mean there is an upper limit
[21:54:37] <pfred1> evne with the best end anchoring what can you run 2,500 RPM?
[21:54:38] <djdelorie> 5 in/sec in theory, for my motors, assuming I can step them up to 3000 RPM
[21:55:01] <pfred1> yup that is beyond what 1/2 x 10 TPI can really run
[21:55:47] <djdelorie> X and Y are acme with anti-backlash nuts.
[21:55:58] <djdelorie> at least, they're not all-thread like Z is
[21:55:58] <pfred1> even at 800 RPM it is kind of spooky to me
[21:56:40] <djdelorie> scary is Y - in theory it can go 25 in/sec, but it's only 26 inches range of motion...
[21:56:42] <pfred1> better to geaqr down and run a looser pitch
[21:56:58] <djdelorie> We used what we had, it's all surplus.
[21:57:07] <pfred1> today belt drive seems where it is at for ultimate speed
[21:57:27] <pfred1> I calculated my moves a step and it is just silly
[21:57:40] <pfred1> something like 0.000023 a step
[21:57:54] <pfred1> as in if i opened my garage door my machine would expand more
[21:58:07] <pfred1> so the resolution isn't really needed
[21:58:11] <djdelorie> I've contemplated cable/pulley systems with separate encoders, don't know if it makes sense.
[21:58:40] <pfred1> glass scales are popular
[21:58:52] <djdelorie> hmmm... X is 32.3 microinches per step, at max microstepping
[21:59:07] <djdelorie> ok, maybe I should cut back on the X microstepping :-)
[21:59:20] <cradek> is this the wood machine?
[21:59:25] <djdelorie> yeah
[21:59:38] <pfred1> I'm limited by my PC what microstepping I can use i can't get the step pulses
[21:59:54] <cradek> set them all to .0005" or so per step?
[22:00:07] <pfred1> but even in 8th mode the numbers just get silly
[22:00:09] <cradek> many machines made of cast iron to cut metal had .001" steps
[22:01:08] <djdelorie> so 200 steps, speed up 31:24, 10tpi ? Even 400 steps is five times faster than what I've got now.
[22:01:29] <pfred1> cradek when I worked in a tool and die shop we never expected bladed cutters to exceed 0.003 accuracy when we needed stuff tighter than that we ground it
[22:02:04] <pfred1> yeah you can hit better than 0.003 on a mill but can you hit it every time?
[22:02:15] <pfred1> because when you're a pro there is no once is good enough
[22:02:18] <cradek> only with care and constant checking
[22:02:53] <djdelorie> no point in micron stepping if you have a mm of play in the carriage :-)
[22:03:11] <pfred1> yeah our machines had some age on them
[22:03:33] <djdelorie> my big lathe is 90 years old, it has less play than my brand new cnc machine...
[22:04:23] <pfred1> we had a CNC 1 but didn't do much with it
[22:04:37] <pfred1> eddie did one operation on it I can't even remember what it is now
[22:05:32] <pfred1> they tried to develop a CNC grinder but they couldn't grasp the tech
[22:05:56] <pfred1> this was back in the early 90s
[22:05:58] * djdelorie wants to put a Z axis on his lathe, so he can use it as a mill too...
[22:06:54] <pfred1> djdelorie andy has a setup like that
[22:07:05] <djdelorie> I've read of lots of people with one
[22:07:12] <djdelorie> MAKES ME WANT IT MORE! ;-)
[22:07:19] <pfred1> well andy is uaually a regular here
[22:07:26] <pfred1> usually even
[22:07:39] <pfred1> he's been traveling a lot lately
[22:07:57] <pfred1> last i heard he went sailing?
[22:08:09] <djdelorie> yup, he's nanometers away from here
[22:08:37] <pfred1> but andy does crazy stuff with his lathe
[22:08:55] <pfred1> he can really showcase what LinuxCNC can do
[22:12:34] <pfred1> before I bought a PSU for my new junky PC I was reading up all about switching supplies now I want to make one
[22:12:47] <djdelorie> not worth the effort, they're dirt cheap
[22:12:59] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/transformer/
[22:13:09] <pfred1> djdelorie where is the fun in buying one?
[22:13:22] <pfred1> I just bought one in fact
[22:13:34] <pfred1> it wasn't the same as soldering
[22:13:52] <djdelorie> didn't say it wouldn't be fun. Get the March 2011 issue of Nuts & Volts, there's a circuit in the Q&A section.
[22:14:15] <djdelorie> Mine works, but not as well as I expected, and it buzzes a lot, probably because of the hand-wound transformer.
[22:14:26] <pfred1> what I really need to learn how to do is to test them
[22:14:33] <pfred1> you know like for ripple and stuff
[22:15:13] <djdelorie> just put a scope on the outputs
[22:15:18] <pfred1> that was why I went with a linear supply with my project initially because i was having so many noise issues
[22:15:37] <pfred1> I figured one more PWM in the mix wouldn't be doing me any favors
[22:15:54] <djdelorie> I went linear for the same reason, ended up with the *same* noise problems. Turns out the motor PWM was killing it, not the PSU
[22:16:03] <pfred1> oh I know
[22:16:18] <pfred1> when I madem y first stepper driver it worked great so I made another one
[22:16:19] <djdelorie> bought a couple big ferrites for the motor wires and power supply leads, made a big difference
[22:16:24] <pfred1> ran the two together, not so great
[22:16:45] <djdelorie> hey, if we don't push the envelope, who will?
[22:16:47] <pfred1> what i did was optically isolate the control signals
[22:17:01] <pfred1> that works like a charm
[22:17:30] <djdelorie> in my case, the big problem was the usb port, but that's only used when you're configuring and testing it
[22:18:12] <djdelorie> hmmm, anyone here put ferrites on the parallel port wires? I mean, after they leave the cable?
[22:18:39] <pfred1> I made a break out board
[22:18:53] <djdelorie> me too
[22:19:11] <pfred1> just to boost up my ma I had for switching
[22:19:46] <djdelorie> I did it because I didn't know where the wires had to go yet, at that point. Bottom middle of http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2600.html - the yellow thing
[22:20:28] <djdelorie> parallel port to 25-pin header to solderless breadboard to three CAT5 to three RJ45
[22:21:45] <pfred1> this is my BOB http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
[22:22:58] <pfred1> it has a strange problem where if it isn't powered somehow power backfeeds out of the parallel port and makes my power LEDs glow a little
[22:23:24] <pfred1> doesn't seem to hurt anything so I haven't really investigated it too closely
[22:23:30] <djdelorie> I considered isolation on my boards, but there were so many connectors that would need it. I decided I could isolate at the parallel port instead, if needed.
[22:23:55] <pfred1> this isn't any isolation it is more for current amplification
[22:24:13] <pfred1> I looked and looked there really is no spec for what a parallel port can put out
[22:24:21] <djdelorie> I have that on my boards as part of the logic level translation, not that it needs it
[22:24:29] <djdelorie> it's TTL, probably 20 mA
[22:24:30] <pfred1> it seems you can't expect more than 3 ma out of one
[22:24:39] <djdelorie> that's not much
[22:24:49] <pfred1> well they vary but they can be that bad
[22:25:05] <pfred1> I did a lot of looking and reading
[22:25:29] <pfred1> the original IBM PC had a spec but since then not so much
[22:26:28] <pfred1> my board draws like 0.006 ma to trigger it then cna supply 25 ma
[22:26:28] <djdelorie> I put in a 74HCT2G125 to buffer the parallel port signals; it accepts anything down to 2V as "high" and turns it into 0-5V. Let me put a pretty strong pull-down on the parallel port lines to counter EMI.
[22:26:42] <pfred1> I used 245a
[22:26:48] <pfred1> 245s
[22:26:55] <djdelorie> it's the HCT part that's significant
[22:27:04] <pfred1> yeah AHCT as I can recall
[22:27:53] <djdelorie> most ICs have body diodes to protect their pins; they'll feed current from the pin to VCC if VCC isn't powered.
[22:28:38] <pfred1> for my power LED backfeed?
[22:28:41] <djdelorie> yup
[22:28:46] <pfred1> it doesn't seem to hurt anything
[22:29:03] <djdelorie> I have a board that keeps running as long as the serial cable is plugged in. It's being powered by the RXD line
[22:29:10] <pfred1> but when it happened i have to say I was surprised
[22:29:50] <pfred1> peole say I should isolate my grounds because of ground loops but that doesn't seem practical for me to do I never bothered
[22:30:57] <pfred1> in my whole system ground is ground
[22:31:47] <djdelorie> if you think about it, the ground loop is a big antenna, picking up noise.
[22:32:42] <pfred1> I might have to revisit my plan but so far so good
[22:33:23] <pfred1> one of my goals is keeping it as simple as I can
[22:34:51] <djdelorie> right, *that* never works...
[22:35:07] <pfred1> djdelorie is that a PC oscilloscope app on your laptop in this picture? http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2600.jpg
[22:35:13] <djdelorie> yes
[22:35:19] <pfred1> nice
[22:35:39] <pfred1> I think LinuxCNC should include something likt that for when people setup their machines
[22:35:46] <djdelorie> the beige box in the middle is the scope, it also uses a parallel port. My current desktop has no parallel port, so that laptop is dedicated to the scope. It's a 200 MHz and runs dos...
[22:36:07] <pfred1> I just saw a really simple amp on the instructable site
[22:36:13] <pfred1> was a couple of op amps
[22:36:34] <djdelorie> when debugging my controller, it turned out I got better scope traces if I sucked the data out of the MCU on the board, than actually hooked up the scope...
[22:36:48] <pfred1> so often when people are having problems i want to tell them to hook a scope up to see what is going on
[22:36:58] <djdelorie> the analog circuits on the controller are designed to avoid picking up EMI, my scope traces are not...
[22:37:09] <djdelorie> er, scope *leads*
[22:37:36] <pfred1> yeah real scope leads it is scary what they can run
[22:38:05] <djdelorie> mine are not in the runs-to-scary range, so they pick up lots of EMI
[22:38:58] <pfred1> is that xoscope?
[22:39:24] <djdelorie> it's a velleman PCS64i, running their software
[22:39:52] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Simple-PC-oscilliscope/
[22:39:57] <djdelorie> I'm trying to get QtDSO working with a usb adapter of my own design, so I don't need a parallel port.
[22:40:44] <pfred1> LinuxCNC won't do USB port for philosophical technical reasons :)
[22:41:03] <djdelorie> actually, real technical reasons.
[22:41:06] <pfred1> lots do ask for it though
[22:41:17] <djdelorie> most of my PCs don't have parallel ports any more...
[22:41:21] <pfred1> remember there is real then there is real enough
[22:41:46] <pfred1> oh I bought a pport card I wasn't going to hook any of my dumb circuits up to a PC
[22:41:51] <djdelorie> well, if you want to limit yourself to 1000 steps/sec, it *might* be doable.
[22:42:02] <djdelorie> a better track to take is CAN support
[22:42:11] <Jymmm> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/dso1060-5-7-lcd-60mhz-2-channel-handheld-scopemeter-oscilloscope-with-usb-host-device-35971
[22:42:12] <pfred1> the rosewill I think it is is a really nice one
[22:42:41] <pfred1> Jymmm I have a 2336 tek
[22:42:53] <Jymmm> pfred1: you gonna send it to me?
[22:42:56] <pfred1> it isn't exactly hand held though :)
[22:43:23] <pfred1> what makes mine sexy is it has the Y option
[22:43:51] <pfred1> doubles the instrument's value
[22:44:38] <pfred1> Jymmm yeah man if you get a scope get a tek they are nicer
[22:45:00] <djdelorie> I have an ancient tek scope with the slide-in cartridges, so I can do X-Y
[22:45:10] <pfred1> a 465?
[22:45:25] <pfred1> they are beasts!
[22:45:41] <djdelorie> I don't recall, it's put away for now. Yeah, heavy, all steel, vacuum tubes...
[22:45:42] <Jymmm> pfred1: Will never happen. I havne't had a scope thus far, so if I get one it's gonna be one of those chinese ones.
[22:45:49] <pfred1> I made a transistor charistic curve tracer once that did the X-Y thing
[22:46:11] <djdelorie> Jymmm: just get any MCU with some ADC and a device usb port, it's all you need. Oh, and some hacking. And software. And a case. And...
[22:46:18] <ssi> I wonder if my tds420 does x/y
[22:46:54] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Or just an led and blink really fast to change "settings".
[22:48:08] <Jymmm> I need to dispense some bulk lithium grease into some small containers. any thoughts?
[22:48:17] <djdelorie> go for it
[22:48:46] <Jymmm> irrigation syringe?
[22:48:46] <djdelorie> get a piping tip from a bakery supply store or wal-mart, use a plastic bag, put the tip in the corner.
[22:49:18] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I need small tip and actually a 3" tube on the end
[22:49:59] <Jymmm> I guess i could glue a tub on to the tip
[22:50:03] <Jymmm> tube
[22:50:43] <Tom_itx> they make 'point' type grease guns
[22:50:46] <Jymmm> I was hoping for a slightly better way than pastry bag, as that is what I'm using now.
[22:50:48] <Tom_itx> hand held
[22:50:59] <djdelorie> http://www.google.com/images?q=irrigation+syringe
[22:51:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: This is BULK, from 5 gallon bucket.
[22:51:12] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm a pastry chef's hat
[22:51:24] <djdelorie> grease gun? Put a grease nipple on a tube, stick it on the gun
[22:51:25] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Yes, I know. but they still need to be FILLED somehow.
[22:51:36] <djdelorie> pneumatic guns feed from buckets
[22:51:49] <Jymmm> djdelorie: link?
[22:51:53] <Tom_itx> we dispensed 55 gal oil drums thru a 2 1/2" pipe using air pressure to force it out
[22:51:59] <Tom_itx> cutting oil
[22:52:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: grease, not oil. oil would be easy.
[22:52:28] <Tom_itx> and why can't you pressurize lithium grease?
[22:52:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you have the gear you're gonna lend me to do all this?
[22:53:18] <Tom_itx> i'll let you draw up a plan and think about it a couple weeks first
[22:54:23] * pfred1 is afraid it doesn't look good for andypugh http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-02/yacht-race-rescue/53959574/1
[22:54:54] <pfred1> didn't he say he was going in a yacht race?
[22:55:12] <djdelorie> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200323348_200323348 ?
[22:56:07] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Hmmmm
[22:56:21] <pfred1> I have a little pneumatic grease gun it doesn't work too swift
[22:56:28] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, use a cylinder with a check valve to dispense a known amount
[22:56:51] <Tom_itx> if you don't like the pressure idea
[22:57:09] <Tom_itx> http://www.fishmancorp.com/
[22:57:39] <pfred1> Tom_itx heh
[22:57:50] <Tom_itx> :)
[22:57:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: they dont do grease
[22:58:07] <pfred1> Jymmm that is what they all say
[22:58:10] <Tom_itx> http://www.pumpsdirectinc.com/
[22:59:43] <Tom_itx> http://www.dispenseworks.com/
[22:59:49] <Tom_itx> that one should work
[22:59:51] <Jymmm> I'm thining something more along the lines of a JUMBO calking gun
[23:00:55] <Tom_itx> after all this is linuxcnc
[23:00:56] <Tom_itx> make one
[23:01:31] <Tom_itx> cookie dough dispenser
[23:01:42] <djdelorie> a giant stepper motor, squishing the drum, grease squirts out the tube...
[23:01:43] <Jymmm> Yeah, 6" ABS pipe + 4" pipe as the plunger,
[23:01:43] <pfred1> Tom_itx pastry bag?
[23:01:53] <Jymmm> 10 foot long
[23:01:59] <Tom_itx> pfred1, no
[23:02:02] <Tom_itx> more like a cylinder
[23:02:09] <djdelorie> giant play-doh extruder?
[23:02:09] <Tom_itx> with a screw on the end
[23:02:28] <Jymmm> or a jumbp caking gun
[23:02:32] <Tom_itx> there's at least a dozen different ways you could do it
[23:02:34] <Jymmm> calking
[23:03:14] <djdelorie> square box with a ram driven by one or more drive screws; make the box so one of the long sides is removable to refill it
[23:03:21] <Tom_itx> but you suggested dispensing from a bucket
[23:03:35] <pfred1> Jymmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCPhHezc-o
[23:03:47] <Tom_itx> so i suggested pressurizing the bucket a bit and stuff a hose in the grease with a shutoff on the end
[23:03:47] <Jymmm> I never said DISPENSE form bucket, I said from BULK
[23:04:06] <Tom_itx> well define BULK
[23:04:19] <Tom_itx> 55 gal drum?
[23:04:22] <Jymmm> 5 gallon bucket
[23:04:24] <Tom_itx> 5 gal bucket
[23:04:27] <Tom_itx> see..
[23:04:31] * Tom_itx smacks Jymmm
[23:04:55] <djdelorie> make a 6x6x30 box out of aluminum. Make one of the 6x30 sides removable, hose fitting on one 6x6 end, the other 6x6 end is the ram...
[23:05:33] <Tom_itx> you will use either A) pressure or B) suction
[23:05:39] <pfred1> when I used to commercial flat roof we had these crazy pumps for pumping roofing emulsion out of drums
[23:05:50] <pfred1> they were basically like jack hammers
[23:06:00] <djdelorie> my wife works for a company that supplies pumps that can move peanut butter...
[23:06:01] <Tom_itx> or concrete pumps
[23:06:20] <pfred1> Tom_itx I've done that too and it is a lot different
[23:06:21] <Jymmm> djdelorie: Can she get samples?
[23:06:29] <djdelorie> of the pump, or the peanut butter?
[23:06:34] <pfred1> concrete pumps are screws or pistons
[23:06:45] <pfred1> we've seen the parts come up teh hose ;)
[23:06:47] <Tom_itx> pfred1, i'm just suggesting you can pump just about anything
[23:06:51] <djdelorie> I think the PB pumps were double-diaphram type
[23:07:25] <pfred1> Tom_itx a concrete pump truck is over a million dollar bill going down the road
[23:07:36] <Tom_itx> likely so
[23:07:40] <pfred1> oh it is
[23:07:47] <Tom_itx> and it pays for itself too
[23:08:04] <pfred1> I've been on pours that were racking up over $32,000 a second
[23:08:25] <pfred1> you never seen people sweat so bad
[23:08:48] <Tom_itx> there's not much pump time with that medium
[23:09:20] <Tom_itx> get the slump right and send it down the tube quick
[23:11:57] <pfred1> my favorite pump has to be the wave solder machine at the place where i made PCBs there is just something about molten metal being pumped that fascinates me
[23:12:24] <Jymmm> I wonder if there's a plunger type dispenser for 5 gallon buckets. Kinda like the worlds largest caulking gun lid attachment?
[23:12:45] <pfred1> there are paint sprayers
[23:13:11] <pfred1> oh i know what you mean like at the condiment bar
[23:13:36] <djdelorie> take apart a regular grease gun, see if you can stick it's working end in the bucket...
[23:13:48] <Jymmm> kinda, yeah. replace the 5gal bucket lid with a plunger type dispenser, and there's a tube tht feeds it thru the top
[23:13:53] <djdelorie> can you warm up the grease to make it runny?
[23:14:05] <pfred1> heh
[23:14:08] <Jymmm> not really
[23:14:08] <djdelorie> make sure the bucket is the same size at the top as at the bottom?
[23:14:51] <pfred1> plastic items are rarely the same sizes
[23:14:57] <pfred1> makes demolding too hard
[23:15:04] <djdelorie> and stacking them
[23:15:08] <Jymmm> Hmmm, OH SO CLOSE... http://www.toolking.com/plews-55-440-heavy-oil-lever-action-dispenser-pump-with-5-gallon-pail/
[23:15:18] <pfred1> measure the top and bottom of a disposable lighter
[23:15:25] <pfred1> like a Bic
[23:15:40] <pfred1> I did that to someone once and they were like now I can't see it right anymore!
[23:16:00] <djdelorie> how much goes in each container?
[23:16:15] <Jymmm> djdelorie: grams
[23:16:27] <pfred1> talk to the columbians
[23:16:38] <Jymmm> yeah, no sht
[23:16:41] <pfred1> they know how to meter out grams
[23:16:47] <djdelorie> that's a LOT of little containers
[23:17:01] <Jymmm> yep
[23:17:11] <djdelorie> makes it worth the time to build something
[23:17:26] <djdelorie> and the "something" doesn't have to be that big to be cost-effective
[23:17:55] <Jymmm> FUCK ME In china... http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/291400672/5_GALLON_GREASE_BUCKET_PUMP_GS_5512C.jpg
[23:18:12] <Jymmm> There's the plunger for 5gal bucket!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[23:18:51] <djdelorie> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LINCOLN-Bucket-Pump-6WB32
[23:19:36] <pfred1> my favorite chinese worker http://cache.wists.com/thumbnails/f/c5/fc57e9139edb24eb5f8a433596bfee7f-orig
[23:20:02] <Jymmm> djdelorie: $480?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
[23:20:14] <djdelorie> my screen says $50
[23:20:49] <pfred1> $50.70 for me
[23:20:52] <Jymmm> djdelorie: next one down, that says GREASE
[23:21:09] <pfred1> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LEGACY-Grease-Pump-4ZT38?cm_sp=IO-_-IDP-_-RR_VTV70300505&cm_vc=IDPRRZ1
[23:21:24] <pfred1> $63.40
[23:21:46] <Jymmm> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LINCOLN-Grease-Pump-6Y859?Pid=search
[23:21:53] <Jymmm> pfred1: that's better =)
[23:22:03] <pfred1> Jymmm for you no problem
[23:22:11] <Jymmm> pfred1: =)
[23:22:26] <pfred1> it costs a lot of money to put the Lincoln name onto stuff
[23:22:39] <pfred1> they do make nice jacks
[23:23:01] <Jymmm> Lincoln is on a penny, I'll pay 1¢ for the name tyvm
[23:23:03] <pfred1> buy Lincoln today and it will outive you
[23:23:32] <pfred1> you and any 10 chinese jacks
[23:24:47] <Jymmm> 0.3 OZ per stroke, I can make that work!
[23:24:54] <pfred1> I hope the chinese stuff I just ordered holds up
[23:25:11] * djdelorie had chinese food for supper... I hope *that* holds up.
[23:25:25] <pfred1> with electronics there really isn't much choice today
[23:25:46] <djdelorie> there's always a choice, it's just more expensive to choose anything else...
[23:25:54] <pfred1> actually there appears to be worse choices than the chinese stuff when it comes to electronics
[23:26:37] <pfred1> don't ever buy anything with teapo capacitors in it!
[23:26:48] <pfred1> those things are garbage
[23:28:58] <djdelorie> And don't ride in anything with a Capissen 38 engine, they fall right out of the sky.
[23:29:18] <pfred1> know the show game of thrones?
[23:29:44] <djdelorie> nope
[23:29:51] <pfred1> oh it is where mel ended up
[23:30:04] <pfred1> I knew the dwarf that is on that show
[23:30:05] <djdelorie> nathan fillian?
[23:30:08] <pfred1> yes
[23:30:11] <djdelorie> cool
[23:30:14] <pfred1> I used to pump his gas
[23:30:24] <djdelorie> "if you know what I mean" ?
[23:30:24] <pfred1> david dinklum
[23:30:47] <pfred1> he'd jump out of his car and hang out on the islands with us
[23:31:11] <pfred1> he had wooden blocks glued to his pedals so he could operate them
[23:32:53] <pfred1> then I started seeing him in movies and stuff and I was like hey I know that guy!
[23:33:37] <pfred1> djdelorie here's one you'll like I used to see Dennis Ritchie around all the time too
[23:33:59] <pfred1> we shopped at the same supermarket
[23:34:32] <djdelorie> The only notable I can claim to have bumped into, aside from all the ones I work with, is Richard Stallman
[23:34:33] <Thetawaves> pardon my lame questions, can somebody explain the details of this
[23:34:34] <Thetawaves> net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out
[23:34:46] <djdelorie> GASP! An on-topic question!
[23:34:51] <Thetawaves> create an edge named spindle-cmd from the component motion with spindle-speed-out control
[23:36:04] <pfred1> Thetawaves looks like a hal thing to me
[23:36:12] <Thetawaves> oh yeah it is
[23:36:21] <pfred1> yeah I never mess with hal
[23:36:43] <pfred1> it has just never come up yet
[23:37:05] <Thetawaves> i am trying to learn how to write spindle speeds to a file
[23:37:13] <pfred1> see now if andy was here he knows about those things
[23:37:41] <Thetawaves> i suspect i have to figure out how to make a userland hal component that i then link to spindle-cmd?
[23:38:24] <pfred1> a lot of folks that haunt the forum don't hang out here http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum
[23:38:38] <pfred1> and they know their stuff
[23:38:52] <Thetawaves> ahh thanks
[23:39:01] <pfred1> you may have to wait a day
[23:39:24] <pfred1> but I bet someone there will be helpful
[23:40:36] <pfred1> Thetawaves hal has his own section there!
[23:41:57] <Thetawaves> pfred1, i gotta do my own part and read the documentation before i admit defeat
[23:42:03] <Thetawaves> irc is different :P
[23:42:58] <pfred1> a lot of times I'll just ramdomly try stuff hoping something will work
[23:43:28] <pfred1> then after it is hopelessly broken I'll read the instructions
[23:43:47] <Thetawaves> lol
[23:43:59] * pfred1 is just a regular guy ....
[23:46:23] <pfred1> a lot of Linux promotes my behavior too because often documentation if it exists can be less than helpful
[23:47:43] <pfred1> I just got done with some software I got involved with I finally found out from the lead developer that what I was trying to do wasn't even supported anymore
[23:49:59] <Thetawaves> yeah but you aren't afraid of opening up the source and making the modifications you need eh?
[23:50:18] <pfred1> well that was the first thing he asked me
[23:50:25] <pfred1> if I could code
[23:50:49] <pfred1> I can hack slash and port some stuff to build but code?
[23:52:05] * pfred1 is more of a bit jiggler than an architect
[23:52:17] <djdelorie> *I* can code, but that doesn't mean I can find what I'm looking for in someone else's software.
[23:52:57] <pfred1> I've tried to code and the only thing that made any sense to me was assembler the rest is just too abstract for me to grasp
[23:53:17] <pfred1> stuff like C
[23:53:17] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, it does take a long time to get comfortable with somebody else's code
[23:53:34] <pfred1> I'm not comfortable with hello world
[23:54:34] <pfred1> perl looks like that junk my modem used to spit out in a terminal
[23:54:50] <Thetawaves> that's because perl is a write only language.
[23:55:08] * djdelorie likes perl, but I try to make my code read-write
[23:55:17] <pfred1> I don't even see how people figure out where to begin though
[23:55:38] <pfred1> I knew this girl on IRC she could like think in perl
[23:55:43] <djdelorie> the DJGPP source base has one assembly file that starts with a comment that says (summarized) "yes, this is free software, but you probably shouldn't be changing this"
[23:55:55] <pfred1> you'd ask her for a one liner to do so and so and she'd just spit it out
[23:56:03] <djdelorie> Begin at the beginning. Then continue on until you come to the end. Then stop.
[23:57:05] <djdelorie> see if you can figure out this recent example of my perl code: http://www.delorie.com/cnc/pcbdrill2gcode
[23:57:54] <djdelorie> it's my excellon to gcode coverter
[23:58:05] <pfred1> the new thing seems to be python
[23:58:25] <djdelorie> yeah, I've got to learn that one of these days. All the Fedora management stuff is in Python, and I work for Red Hat...
[23:58:46] <pfred1> there is a lot of python in LinuxCNC now
[23:59:02] <pfred1> I see .py files all over the place anymore
[23:59:18] <pfred1> I have one that downloads youtube videos
[23:59:34] <djdelorie> yup. I started hacking face-134.py because it milled slots bigger than the number I typed in. I gave up when I realized that "facing" does not mean what I thought it meant...
[23:59:53] <pfred1> heh