#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-01

[00:27:38] <Tecan> that took way too long
[00:27:54] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/0cgho.jpg
[00:28:05] <Tecan> got er mounted tho
[00:54:29] <Tecan> ahhh, 2 more down now just the laser left..... this might really suck
[00:54:47] <Tecan> frysteev_ do you know if i put stuff on the laser tube it'll melt ?
[00:55:01] <Tecan> does the tube usually get hot even though its water cooled ?
[00:55:31] <frysteev_> it gets decent hot
[00:55:50] <Tecan> shit fantastic plastic wont work then
[00:57:53] <djdelorie> it shouldn't be hotter than the boiling point of water...
[00:58:11] <frysteev_> then it would be steam
[00:58:32] <djdelorie> ah, the old "steam-cooled laser" :-)
[01:00:11] <djdelorie> a fitting start for April 1st ;-)
[01:05:03] <ssi> heheh
[01:51:00] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:29:43] <raynerd> hello...anyone about. I`ve got some m542 drivers which I believe are opto-isolated in the driver themselfs. Do I really need a dedicated BOB? I have an LPT quick connector, ie. just a parallel direct break out, could I connect the drivers directly to that?
[03:30:23] <raynerd> what are the risks?
[03:37:57] <raynerd> I`m not still not clear what "extra" a BOB gives me over a standard LPT quick connector like this: http://www.routoutcnc.com/lptcon.html
[03:48:32] <archivist> raynerd, I use an extra board to allow me to buffer the signals and give sufficient current to the opto diode
[03:48:51] <archivist> I have a similar stepper drivers
[03:50:51] <CareBear\> yes, the parallel port does not drive optocouplers very well
[03:51:21] <archivist> a bit of vero and some 7414 on one machine and uln2004 on the other
[03:52:40] <raynerd> hello...sorry. archivist, you still about? I don`t really understand what you mean. In theory could I at least attempt it today to see if my issue does lie with my TB6560? then again, I`m not ignoring your adviuce if this is not going to work or is dangerous!
[03:55:21] <CareBear\> it's not dangerous, it just will not work
[03:55:23] <raynerd> carebear - I don`t really know what "drive opto-couplers" means, when you say not very well..do you mean I could attempt it and it should work but ideally need a BOB? or is it not worth trying?
[03:55:26] <CareBear\> the parallel port has shitty drivers
[03:55:38] <raynerd> ahh ok :-(
[03:55:38] <CareBear\> the port does not supply very much current
[03:56:03] <CareBear\> optocouplers prefer a fairly high current in order to switch on fast and well
[03:57:07] <raynerd> I see...so for my thick head...the parallel port doesn`t give out a strong enough signal, so this word "buffer" I take it that means the BOB boosts the signal to drive these?
[03:57:25] <archivist> you need about 10ma for the opto and the parallel port is ttl out
[03:57:43] <raynerd> ahh :(
[03:58:10] <raynerd> I guess if I knew what I was doing, I could some how use the "BOB" part of the TB6560 and feed it to my new driver?
[03:58:27] <raynerd> but I don`t know what I`m doing enough so don`t know why I even mentioned it.
[03:58:31] <CareBear\> BOB and TB6560 doesn't mean anything to me :\
[03:58:41] <raynerd> breakout board??
[03:59:03] <raynerd> TB6560 - cheapo chinese 3 axis controller with integrated BOB (breakout board)
[03:59:16] <CareBear\> but yes, the right buffer chip would have stronger drivers than the LPT itself
[04:00:14] <CareBear\> PWM Chopper-Type Bipolar Driver IC for Stepping Motor Control
[04:00:15] <CareBear\> ?
[04:00:31] <CareBear\> toshiba
[04:00:44] <raynerd> so do I need something like this...http://www.diycnc.co.uk/uniportV2.pdf I`m UK and this is an hours drive away so I could collect tomorrow..
[04:02:04] <CareBear\> tell Roy cheers for using gEDA
[04:02:49] <archivist> raynerd, yup that looks ok
[04:03:07] <CareBear\> all you *really* need is one chip and a 5V power supply
[04:03:45] <CareBear\> but depending on DIY desire may prefer to buy that uniport
[04:03:45] <raynerd> I have a 5v supply... what chip?
[04:03:48] <archivist> and something to mount on...which is what that board is basicly
[04:04:51] <raynerd> you see this is what I was saying before. I have one of these: TB6560: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=617&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=e9yUXx8rVoKnKM:&imgrefurl=http://reprap.org/wiki/4_Axis_TB6560_CNC_Stepper_Motor_Driver_Board_Controller&docid=ohia-xeZpMSKvM&imgurl=http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/e/e9/TB6560.jpg&w=700&h=502&ei=zRd4T9PKBuLK0QW0xuyfDQ&zoom=1&iact
[04:04:52] <raynerd> =rc&dur=125&sig=107705087645064034893&page=1&tbnh=123&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=79&ty=54
[04:05:32] <CareBear\> oh
[04:05:37] <CareBear\> it already has an LPT interface
[04:05:41] <raynerd> It has the parallel going straight to it so I presume it must be doing what is needed!! but then taking the signal to the inbuilt drivers. I guess if I knew what I was doing, I could pull the signal from this !!
[04:05:43] <raynerd> yes!
[04:05:43] <CareBear\> but you don't want to use this?
[04:06:44] <raynerd> It is terrible!! I mean terrible. Read the reviews online, they are shocking and I`m almost 100% sure my problems are coming from this
[04:06:57] <CareBear\> ok
[04:07:08] <CareBear\> Toshiba usually don't do crappy chips, but ok
[04:07:15] <CareBear\> the board might be a bad implementation of it
[04:10:55] <raynerd> I can obviously read, but when I do read the literature for these breakout boards like the one I linked from cncdiy above, I don`t really see what I am buying for £40-60! So ok, you have said I`m buying a board that will applifiy the signal going to the opto-isolators, what else am I paying all that money for?
[04:11:18] <raynerd> ohh yea, I can see that the inputs have a pullup resistor connected...
[04:11:23] <archivist> the pcb and profit
[04:11:30] <raynerd> some mention about a relay
[04:11:46] <raynerd> actually, I don`t even think that the one above does!!
[04:12:15] <CareBear\> there's a fair bit of components on that uniport board
[04:12:38] <CareBear\> since it's clearly manufactured in small quantity, 40-50£ is about what I would expect
[04:12:49] <CareBear\> of course there's absolutely nothing spectacular on it
[04:12:57] <raynerd> OK..is it therefore worth me going one step more and getting this: http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/oppb.html
[04:13:49] <archivist> some vero and a ULN2002 and a few resistors :)
[04:14:03] <CareBear\> you can certainly DIY an equivalent on a shoestring budget
[04:14:44] <raynerd> on the more expensive one, I dont get the voltage in part...what can that do?
[04:14:47] <CareBear\> but without at least a little bit of electronics experience it will quickly get frustrating - and buying that £57 board gets you a nice package which is known working
[04:15:14] <CareBear\> frustrating if everything doesn't work immediately - and they never do
[04:15:23] <archivist> the first board you linked gets its 5v from the usb
[04:15:58] <CareBear\> that's not a very good power supply however
[04:16:27] <CareBear\> this second one needs a 15-70V supply it seems
[04:16:39] <archivist> no, but probably ok for the opto driver
[04:16:44] <raynerd> so it takes its 5v supply from the 15-70v in?
[04:16:51] <CareBear\> raynerd : yep
[04:17:03] <CareBear\> archivist : technically not, unless there is a device which enumerates
[04:17:11] <raynerd> I presume you then take your supply from the board to the driver - rather than direct to the driver?
[04:17:33] <raynerd> to be honest, I`ve got a nice clean 5v signal available from my ATX converted supply for my spindle.
[04:17:46] <archivist> II keep the 5v separate because its on the computer side of the opto
[04:18:16] <archivist> you will lose the isolation if not careful
[04:18:33] <CareBear\> oh. 5V & 12V spare power output rails (100mA max)
[04:18:38] <CareBear\> can't drive anything with that
[04:18:48] <CareBear\> so yes you need a separate power supply either way
[04:18:59] <raynerd> the second one mentions the two 10A control relays... last question because I do appreciate you have given me a lot of advice. I don`t really understand what a relay would be used for?
[04:19:16] <CareBear\> very high power switching
[04:19:23] <CareBear\> but it is a mechanical switch
[04:19:38] <CareBear\> which is sometimes quite problematic
[04:19:45] <CareBear\> mechanical switches always have bounce
[04:20:00] <CareBear\> it's not a perfect off->on and on->off transition
[04:20:45] <archivist> you may use the relay to switch mains to the motor psu for example
[04:20:50] <raynerd> actually, the cheaper UNIPORT has 2 x 16A relays. So does this mean I can use it to turn on my spindle when I get my head around how it`ll work?
[04:21:02] <raynerd> excellent.
[04:21:16] <archivist> if within ratings yes
[04:21:30] <CareBear\> maybe not for the spindle.. depends on how you want to control it
[04:21:43] <raynerd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ3BzL82qNg brushless is working well but don`t really understand it.
[04:21:44] <CareBear\> being mechanical and with the bounce the relays are also slow
[04:22:17] <CareBear\> and if they are made to work too fast, or even just slowly with the bounce, there may be arcing between the contacts inside the relay, ultimately burning the contacts down
[04:27:33] <raynerd> do you mind if I ask...years ago when I purchased the LTP quick connect, that is what routoutcnc company sent me to run with their drivers. Why didn`t I need a buffer to improve the signal there?
[04:28:57] <CareBear\> what did it connect to?
[04:29:18] <raynerd> on sec.
[04:29:38] <raynerd> http://www.routoutcnc.com/lpkits.html
[04:29:47] <CareBear\> maybe what it connected to wasn't optically isolated, or maybe it included buffers already
[04:30:14] <raynerd> infact, if you look at the top image, it shows three drivers with the quick connector
[04:30:29] <CareBear\> sorry, pictures are not detailed enough to tell what's going on
[04:30:58] <CareBear\> would need a high resolution photo
[04:30:58] <raynerd> http://www.routoutcnc.com/singlesmall.html
[04:31:06] <raynerd> ok that link is the driver: http://www.routoutcnc.com/singlesmall.html
[04:31:23] <raynerd> and then he is selling the quick connect that I currently have, to run directly those drivers.
[04:31:45] <raynerd> I presume they are not opto-isolated, but then surely it is a dangerous system to run??
[04:32:00] <raynerd> http://www.routoutcnc.com/lptcon.html
[04:32:00] <CareBear\> * Opto-Isolated step and direction inputs
[04:32:23] <CareBear\> can't tell from the photo
[04:32:35] <CareBear\> can you take a better one of your board?
[04:32:35] <raynerd> humm, well that is wierd.
[04:32:47] <CareBear\> the TB6560 board doesn't look bad
[04:33:11] <CareBear\> what problems did you have with it?
[04:33:16] <raynerd> I can, but it is really simple...there is literally nothing on it. The parallel port comes in and puts each connection to a terminal!
[04:33:21] <raynerd> screw terminal.
[04:33:27] <CareBear\> ok, so no buffers there
[04:33:28] <raynerd> no ICs or anything
[04:33:57] <CareBear\> well, a few optocouplers are more sensitive, but they are rare and usually way expensive
[04:34:10] <raynerd> humm, ok.
[04:34:23] <CareBear\> what problem did you have with the TB?
[04:34:52] <raynerd> all sorts. currently my issue is that the axis seem to be running out of sync
[04:35:10] <raynerd> say I draw to concentric circles, they will end up overlapping with little flats on them
[04:35:53] <CareBear\> is there any feedback
[04:35:53] <CareBear\> ?
[04:36:01] <raynerd> feedback ??
[04:36:07] <CareBear\> heh
[04:36:46] <raynerd> sorry, what do you mean
[04:36:48] <CareBear\> if not, I'd suggest there is a problem between software and the TB, not between TB and material
[04:37:03] <raynerd> how do you mean..feedback?
[04:37:18] <CareBear\> a way for the software to know the exact position of each axis
[04:37:51] <raynerd> also, the motors sound quite noisy and when stationary they make wierd screeching noises.
[04:38:01] <raynerd> no..no feedback
[04:38:18] <CareBear\> what motors are those?
[04:38:33] <raynerd> one second..let me go down with the machine
[04:38:43] <CareBear\> and what power supply are you using?
[04:39:05] <raynerd> 24v two atx in series
[04:39:38] <CareBear\> is that a common setup?
[04:40:25] <raynerd> if you read the forums.. these boards tend to go pop above 24v despite their rating well above that
[04:40:46] <CareBear\> I'm sorry, I'm allergic to forums
[04:40:52] <CareBear\> I was more thinking of the two ATX in series
[04:41:45] <raynerd> is it a common settup - I have read that it can be done and it works well for some poeple as a cheap power supply
[04:41:51] <CareBear\> cool
[04:42:05] <raynerd> I`m with the machine now
[04:42:21] <CareBear\> motors are?
[04:42:34] <raynerd> motors are sanyo denki - nice motors. 2A, 1.8deg
[04:43:49] <CareBear\> stepsyn type 103H7126-0440 ?
[04:44:08] <raynerd> I have stepping set to 1/2 step, but with 2mm lead screw, this is only 200 steps per mm. Is this accurate enough?
[04:44:29] <raynerd> type: 103H7126 - 5010
[04:45:02] <raynerd> I have struggled to find anything for my 5010, only info for the 0440 as you suggested... I think maybe the only difference is that they are double ended??
[04:45:26] <CareBear\> no
[04:45:32] <CareBear\> it has bipolar winding and two shafts
[04:45:40] <raynerd> ahhh.
[04:45:58] <raynerd> could I have me motors wired wrong...or would they just not be turning?
[04:46:14] <raynerd> my**
[04:48:13] <CareBear\> it seems you can drive one motor with one TB6560 chip
[04:48:46] <CareBear\> so there should be three of them on that board
[04:48:55] <raynerd> yes, correct
[04:50:35] <raynerd> my motor is wired B- = blue, B+ = orange, A- = red, A+ = yellow
[04:50:54] <raynerd> I presume if this was wrong, my motors would not be turning at all.
[04:51:57] <CareBear\> you can always try swapping things around
[04:52:35] <CareBear\> the noise and poor steady state suggests that they are connected wrong
[04:52:39] <raynerd> lol, when I swap things around without thought, things tend to go pop on me!!
[04:53:02] <CareBear\> well, be careful how you test
[04:53:27] <raynerd> I appreciate I`m asking a lot, but could you please clarify how I should determine the wiring.
[04:53:41] <raynerd> i.e which colour to each A+. A-. B+, B-
[04:53:50] <CareBear\> the best by far is if you can visualize the driver signals
[04:54:20] <CareBear\> maybe a scope if you have a probe with good attenuation
[04:55:03] <raynerd> when I test with a meter. I have continuity between A+, A- and B+, B-
[04:55:14] <CareBear\> yeah no that's no good
[04:55:14] <raynerd> which I thought was correct
[04:55:19] <CareBear\> yes it is
[04:55:25] <CareBear\> but it doesn't show what you want
[04:55:37] <CareBear\> there are two factors to consider, sequence and polarity
[04:55:43] <CareBear\> for A and B each
[04:56:02] <CareBear\> so there are 7 wrong combinations and 1 right
[04:56:10] <raynerd> I see, bugger
[04:56:35] <raynerd> I`ve no scope, so that is out the window and I can`t find the datasheet for my exact motors
[04:56:54] <CareBear\> I have the datasheet, but it says nothing about wire colours
[04:57:17] <raynerd> ah bugger
[04:58:43] <raynerd> without a scope, is there anything else I can do?
[05:02:35] <raynerd> any thoughts CareBare?
[05:03:28] <CareBear\> I think you B is reversed, and that you should swap A and B
[05:03:33] <CareBear\> your
[05:04:05] <CareBear\> the official driver connects 1-orange 2-blue 3-red 4-yellow
[05:04:41] <CareBear\> ah here we go
[05:05:17] <CareBear\> http://www.sanyo-denki.com/Data/Servo/catalogs/F2.pdf page 53 on the bottom
[05:06:09] <CareBear\> you clearly have one winding in reverse
[05:06:29] <raynerd> slowww download, one sec.
[05:08:25] <raynerd> p53 - Motor cable:4835710-1 I see wire colours?? 6 wires though
[05:08:53] <raynerd> pdf page 52??
[05:09:01] <CareBear\> 53 here, but 52 in page corner
[05:09:52] <CareBear\> it's also possible that I'm just stupid and you have it connected fine
[05:09:59] <raynerd> yes.. OK got you.
[05:10:39] <CareBear\> but steady state does suggest otherwise
[05:11:44] <raynerd> so again, I know I might be being thick here...in your opinion, in simple terms B+ =colour, B- = colour..... how would you suggest wire it?
[05:12:23] <CareBear\> that depends on how A and B are sequenced and what the polarity is
[05:12:29] <CareBear\> I can't tell you that
[05:13:04] <CareBear\> we can assume and maybe we'll guess right.. it's 1/8
[05:13:16] <raynerd> ok
[05:13:29] <CareBear\> do you have some LEDs blinking on the TB board?
[05:14:07] <raynerd> some LEDs are ON steady but not blinking.
[05:14:43] <raynerd> two of the LEds I believe are showing the two voltage regs are working.
[05:15:15] <CareBear\> makes sense
[05:15:29] <raynerd> infact, when I launch emc, all LEDs go off except the two for the voltage regulators
[05:16:48] <CareBear\> but there's no light show when running
[05:17:40] <raynerd> one sec, just had to reboot. Will check now
[05:18:23] <CareBear\> do you have two LEDs and two 2k2 resistors?
[05:19:12] <CareBear\> well, just the meter might do actually
[05:19:17] <CareBear\> as long as you can single step
[05:19:44] <raynerd> OK, just checked...I`m concentrating so hard on the machine and software, must look at the driver. there are thee LEDs on the board and they VERY faintly light up when running code
[05:20:05] <CareBear\> ok, but just three
[05:20:06] <CareBear\> no help
[05:20:11] <CareBear\> break out the meter
[05:20:13] <CareBear\> disconnect motors
[05:20:15] <raynerd> the bottom one of the three, nearest the parallel port is on strong.
[05:20:16] <CareBear\> go to steady state
[05:20:17] <raynerd> ok
[05:20:44] <CareBear\> measure all six outputs, being consistent with polarity
[05:20:55] <raynerd> OK, all motors disconnected. Do I keep power and parallel connected?
[05:20:58] <CareBear\> yes
[05:21:09] <raynerd> ok
[05:21:16] <CareBear\> I guess you already know which is X Y and Z
[05:21:18] <CareBear\> so pick any one
[05:21:29] <CareBear\> but might not be bad to go over them all
[05:21:46] <raynerd> sorry...not clear what you are asking me to actually do with the meter?
[05:21:58] <CareBear\> black meter probe to A- red to A+
[05:22:14] <raynerd> ahh ok.
[05:22:15] <CareBear\> next black B- and red B+
[05:22:23] <CareBear\> note down results
[05:22:43] <CareBear\> then see if you can get the software to do exactly one step on that axis
[05:22:44] <raynerd> ok, get that, but measuring??
[05:22:49] <CareBear\> voltage
[05:22:51] <raynerd> ok
[05:22:53] <CareBear\> DC
[05:23:11] <CareBear\> it should say 24V or -24V
[05:26:45] <CareBear\> what do you get?
[05:26:48] <raynerd> meter across X axis A- to A+ 0v, X axis, A+ to A- = 24v BUT all other axis read 0v!
[05:27:02] <raynerd> SORRY!
[05:27:11] <CareBear\> huh?
[05:27:23] <raynerd> x axis, A-, A+ = 0v , B-,B+ = 24.6v
[05:27:37] <raynerd> ALL other axis read 0 volts on ALL connections!
[05:27:51] <raynerd> i.e A-,A+ and B-,B+
[05:27:55] <CareBear\> yes
[05:28:07] <CareBear\> can you get one step on X?
[05:28:20] <CareBear\> I don't know if the software has an easy way to do that
[05:28:30] <CareBear\> very important that it's not moving some distance
[05:28:38] <CareBear\> but that it's exactly one step
[05:28:51] <raynerd> not sure how to do that in emc2
[05:29:03] <raynerd> I do have mach3 actually on other side of the computer, not sure on that either
[05:30:18] <CareBear\> if we assume that left is A and bottom is B (picture lower left p.52) then you are currently in exciting order 1 or 4
[05:30:43] <CareBear\> I don't suppose you get some reading if you measure black A+ and red A- ?
[05:30:44] <raynerd> OK, very sorry. Enabling the lock on EMc and I get 24v across each A+ and A- connection, 0v across B+ and B-
[05:31:08] <CareBear\> mhm
[05:31:10] <raynerd> across each axis
[05:31:37] <CareBear\> need to also do one step
[05:32:15] <CareBear\> do you get 0V also if you measure B- to B+ ?
[05:32:18] <CareBear\> ie. swap black and red
[05:33:00] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:33:30] <raynerd> sorry, nipped to lo.
[05:33:40] <raynerd> no, B- to B+ gives 0v on each axis
[05:34:02] <CareBear\> and if you swap on A you'll get -24 ?
[05:34:28] <raynerd> A- to A+ always gives me 24v
[05:34:36] <CareBear\> what if you swap black and red?
[05:35:00] <raynerd> yes sure
[05:35:05] <raynerd> -24v
[05:35:10] <CareBear\> ok
[05:35:31] <CareBear\> good. next need to do exactly one step. afraid I have no idea how to do that..
[05:36:37] <raynerd> lol, bugger
[05:37:15] <raynerd> jog only shows smalles step is 0.005mm which is more than 1 step I expect
[05:37:47] <CareBear\> 1.8 deg right?
[05:38:12] <raynerd> yes
[05:38:34] <CareBear\> so 1/200th turn
[05:38:56] <CareBear\> how far that is depends on your gear ratio obviously
[05:39:25] <raynerd> but there are no motors connected. Are you talking about half stepping and such
[05:39:57] <CareBear\> doesn't matter that nothing is connected since there is no feedback anyway
[05:40:07] <CareBear\> any half stepping and microstepping must be disabled
[05:41:07] <raynerd> well I`ve disabled half step to full step but I think I am now stuck
[05:41:19] <CareBear\> you don't know your gear ratio?
[05:41:26] <raynerd> gear ratio?
[05:41:41] <CareBear\> axis travel for one turn of the drive shaft
[05:41:48] <raynerd> I`m using 2mm pitch leadscrew
[05:41:53] <raynerd> yes 2mm pitch
[05:42:18] <CareBear\> so one turn means 2 mm travel ?
[05:42:21] <raynerd> yes
[05:42:52] <CareBear\> then you should move X .01mm
[05:42:59] <raynerd> correct, so 200 steps = 2mm on full step.
[05:43:50] <raynerd> so in mdi that would be g0 x??
[05:44:09] <CareBear\> no idea, sorry
[05:44:23] <raynerd> got it !!!
[05:45:12] <CareBear\> move X relative .01mm "forward"
[05:45:12] <raynerd> ok, I can do that
[05:45:12] <CareBear\> and position is not important, so you only get one try
[05:45:12] <raynerd> there is a jog by 0.01mm button! :D
[05:45:12] <CareBear\> what is important is new driver state in comparison to previous driver state
[05:45:13] <CareBear\> ok
[05:45:41] <raynerd> ok, so am basically reading the value of A+ A- when I move the axis?
[05:45:48] <CareBear\> after, yes
[05:45:53] <CareBear\> both A and B
[05:50:24] <CareBear\> and?
[05:51:10] <raynerd> It moves so quick it is hard to capture. I think it seems to drop from 24v to about 4-5v on A- A+ but across B- B+ I don`t capture anything
[05:51:13] <raynerd> significant
[05:51:17] <raynerd> it just flickers
[05:52:15] <raynerd> should I be reading as I press the move axis. Or do I just do it comfortably in my own time after I`ve moved the axis?
[05:52:23] <raynerd> almost to read a new state?
[05:53:47] <CareBear\> if the move works as intended you can measure comfortably after moving
[05:54:06] <raynerd> not only that...in emc the state of the microsteping is set to 2 so actually, will I have to change this to 1 to do this test??
[05:54:34] <raynerd> and, it seems like you are inferring that I should have the motor plugged in for this tesT?
[05:54:39] <mazafaka> And EMC dot com develops the Enhanced Machine Controller itself, or just offers IT solutions and various another stuff?
[05:56:27] <CareBear\> no motor needs to be plugged in
[05:58:50] <raynerd> OK, A-,A+ = 0v to 0v and B- to B+ 24v to 0v
[05:59:04] <raynerd> I say 0v, it is flickering around 0.3v
[05:59:33] <raynerd> SORRY!! A-A+ 24v to 0v and B-B+ 0v to 0v
[06:00:04] <raynerd> has that helped in any way?
[06:05:12] <raynerd> does that tell us anything..what is it we are trying to find out?
[06:09:43] <raynerd> Carebare: you vanished?!?
[06:28:22] <CareBear\> well..
[06:29:29] <CareBear\> okey, raynerd : try repeat once more, then measure again
[06:31:01] <CareBear\> repeat/move
[07:14:49] <mrsun> hmm, i could make a spacer that fits in the current tool holder to be able to hold my new tools, will offset them out so will weaken everything a bit but it could work :P
[08:34:52] <Tecan> sweet i won the lottery
[08:35:06] <Tecan> 50 million
[08:36:05] <Tecan> happy 1st
[08:49:23] <raynerd> Carebare: you still about?
[10:46:19] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: !
[10:46:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yes?
[10:47:30] <JT-Shop> ever since I got wildblue satellite my IRC connection constantly resets, any clue what I can do to stop that?
[10:47:42] <JT-Shop> I use Chatzilla
[10:48:28] <Jymmm> I've noticed (and even kicked you when you were idle and bouncing for over 2 hour straight, but someone whined, and well blah blah)...
[10:48:46] <JT-Shop> yea, I forgot to turn it off
[10:49:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: are you ok if I kick you when your bouncing for 60minutes plus?
[10:49:17] <JT-Shop> yea
[10:49:21] <Jymmm> k
[10:49:39] <Jymmm> do you have any issues with anythign else other than irc?
[10:50:17] <JT-Shop> not that I know of, in fact I connected to another network and left it on overnight with no resets
[10:50:24] <Tecan> lol i used mason jar lids for the laser tube holder
[10:50:27] <JT-Shop> so something to do with freenode and me
[10:51:00] <archivist> JT-Shop, they ping you to see if you are alive
[10:51:05] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: hang on,let me check something... Just keep rambling in the channel though, start singing or something
[10:51:15] <JT-Shop> llllll
[10:51:24] <JT-Shop> freenode?
[10:51:42] <JT-Shop> archivist: they = ?
[10:52:13] <dgarr> JT-Shop: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/andy_sails_through_the_goldengate.jpg
[10:52:27] <archivist> freenode
[10:52:33] <JT-Shop> dgarr: cool
[10:53:13] <JT-Shop> archivist: speaking of steam what do you think of the 5 HP Compound in this link http://www.reliablesteam.com/RSE/RSEengines.html
[10:53:58] <JT-Shop> my buddy wants to build one
[10:54:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's strange, you're here for 30s, bounce, then return for 4.5 minutes, repeat. Let me check somethign else.
[10:54:45] <JT-Shop> ok
[10:56:32] <archivist> JT-Shop, http://heekscadlog.archivist.info/2012-03-31.txt :)
[10:57:29] <archivist> and he's back http://heekscadlog.archivist.info/2012-03-31.txt
[10:57:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: did you stop singing?
[10:58:01] <JT-Shop> I must have
[10:58:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: well, keep the dogs howling
[10:58:42] <JT-Shop> I was pealing an orange
[10:59:39] <JT-Shop> should I just create a bogus channel and type away there not to flood here?
[10:59:49] <archivist> ping timeout looks like 240 secs
[11:00:21] <archivist> should be able to diagnose by the error (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:00:34] <JT-Shop> how is that?
[11:00:51] <JT-Shop> [ERROR] Connection to irc://freenode/ (irc://chat.freenode.net/) reset. [Help]
[11:01:51] <JT-Shop> I called wildblue technical support and they didn't know what an IRC was...
[11:02:05] <JT-Shop> a little furry animal I think
[11:02:18] <archivist> hehe useless
[11:02:30] <JT-Shop> yea
[11:02:37] <Tom_itx> http://freenode.net/privacy_change.html
[11:02:39] <Tom_itx> you should read
[11:02:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: try a REAL irc client
[11:03:01] <JT-Shop> ok
[11:03:04] <archivist> my bot timed out yesterday with the_wench has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) you drop out with (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:03:13] <Tom_itx> logs will be stored and made available to GOVT agencies
[11:03:25] <archivist> xchat is not the problem as I use it too
[11:03:46] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: which irc client?
[11:03:58] <JT-Shop> is xchat the same as chatzilla
[11:04:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: No, you can try xchat
[11:04:42] <JT-Shop> ok
[11:05:25] <JT-Shop> downloading now
[11:05:28] <Tecan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300599211528?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[11:05:28] <JT-Shop> oh it is done
[11:05:39] <JT-Shop> archivist: did you get to look at that link?
[11:05:48] <Tom_itx> Jymmm big brother will be watching you
[11:06:31] <archivist> JT-Shop, looks possibly acceptable, but I thought they should have some better pictures
[11:06:48] <JT-Shop> yea, my buddy ordered the pdf to look at it
[11:07:03] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: setting up xchat be back in a bit
[11:08:30] <JT-Shop> well here I am
[11:08:40] <archivist> cant see you
[11:08:51] <JT-Shop> I'm over here
[11:09:04] <JT-Shop> I'll shutup now and see what happens
[11:09:09] * archivist looks under the carpet
[11:09:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Been there, done that a LONG time ago. the UNITED STATES PRESIDENT OBAMA used to KILL all big issues we were facing, but is no longer 'Da BOMB' he once was. (Hello Echelon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29)
[11:11:44] <archivist> JT-Shop, another way is buy an old steam book and draw up his own
[11:13:15] <JT-Shop> any titles you might suggest?
[11:15:01] <archivist> er.. let me cheat http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=steam
[11:18:35] <archivist> some early technical drawing books would use steam engine parts as examples
[11:19:48] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you gonna make a steam engine?
[11:20:08] <JT-Shop> yea
[11:20:18] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=BK2665
[11:20:39] <Tom_itx> my grandfather made one for me when i was a kid
[11:20:47] <Tom_itx> still up in the attic i think
[11:23:20] <archivist> I must finish the model steam engines I have
[11:26:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ping?
[11:28:58] <JT-Shop> yes
[11:29:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: WOOHOO, you haven't bounced!
[11:29:30] <fragalot> JT-Shop: do it. they're so satisfying ^_^
[11:29:49] <JT-Shop> I'm stoked, that was a pain in ass for everyone
[11:30:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yes, yes it was =)
[11:30:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Alls well in swap-a-souri now =)
[11:30:39] <JT-Shop> yea, sorry about that
[11:30:51] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I tease, it's all good.
[11:31:16] * JT-Shop is off loading chatzilla now
[11:33:16] <JT-Shop> archivist, is this a good book to read? http://www.amazon.com/Stationary-Steam-Engines-Shire-Library/dp/0852636520
[11:36:45] <Tom_itx> did they ever use stationary steam engines in factories on the long drive lines they had overhead for the machines?
[11:37:40] <fragalot> probably
[11:41:57] <ssi> JT-Shop: I busted my hardinge :'(
[11:42:59] <rob_h> broke what
[11:43:08] <fragalot> his hardinge
[11:43:19] <rob_h> part wise
[11:43:25] <ssi> the little flex coupler between the screw and hte ressolver/tach drive gear
[11:43:26] <JT-Shop> damit jim he is dead
[11:43:26] <ssi> on X
[11:43:39] <rob_h> aaah
[11:43:50] <fragalot> ssi: not too bad then?
[11:43:54] <rob_h> pritty standard part then
[11:44:04] <JT-Shop> yea
[11:44:10] <JT-Shop> hi Rob!
[11:44:12] <ssi> waiting to find out how many billions of dollars that'll cost me from hardinge
[11:44:21] <fragalot> beats bending the frame (somehow) :P
[11:44:35] <ssi> mcmaster wants $70 for a similar part
[11:44:53] <fragalot> make a new one yourself on the hardi..wait
[11:44:54] <ssi> I managed to silver solder mine back together, so I'll probably try to put it back together like that today
[11:45:23] <fragalot> ssi: do you know what alloy it is made of?
[11:45:37] <fragalot> sometimes silver solder might look good but has absolutely NO structural strength
[11:45:46] <rob_h> iv been trying to fix the very bad designed hardinge air joint for the closer.. stop it leaking as bad as it does
[11:45:50] <ssi> the bellows are nickel I think
[11:45:56] <ssi> and it doesn't need very much strength
[11:46:17] <fragalot> it would appear that it does, seeing that it broke :P
[11:46:51] <ssi> assumptions will get you nowhere :)
[11:46:52] <rob_h> hi over there john
[11:47:01] <fragalot> ssi: :D
[11:47:09] <ssi> it broke because I was screwing with tuning
[11:47:18] <ssi> and got a real hard oscillation, so very high accel
[11:47:24] <fragalot> ah
[11:47:34] <ssi> the only load on that coupler is accelerating the inertia of the resolver and tach through a 5:1 gear ratio
[11:47:43] <ssi> the couplers are rated like 6 in-lb
[11:48:07] <JT-Shop> rob_h, did you get the collet closer to stop leaking?
[11:48:12] <rob_h> just shaking all the metal out from the slides was you
[11:48:25] <rob_h> no, you cant. well you can but you have to be GOD i think
[11:48:38] <ssi> rob_h: yeah I made a M199 macro that just shimmies all the chips off the machine :)
[11:48:43] <rob_h> the old bearings had worn away the metal seating face..
[11:49:07] <rob_h> and to seal. they rely on the bearing inner face being a very close fit to the housing that does not move..
[11:49:14] <rob_h> so too close they bind and lock up
[11:49:17] <rob_h> too far and you have a air line on the back
[11:49:51] <rob_h> we got it machined pritty well back to how it should of been.. and now new bearing are sealing good again. a little leak but not like it was..
[11:50:22] <rob_h> what it realy wants is some way of putting seals in there. and let the bearings do there real job
[11:50:59] <fragalot> ssi: rofl
[11:51:26] <Jymmm> Bearings, and seals, oh my!
[11:51:58] <fragalot> rob_h: teflon ring?
[11:51:58] <rob_h> or change it for a hydrolic unit. :) like other ones are
[11:52:37] <rob_h> yea might work.. as long as would not mind zero lube and doing 4000-6000rpm all its life when in use
[11:52:52] <fragalot> "all it's life" should be fine
[11:53:02] <fragalot> :P
[11:53:11] <rob_h> carbon seal might work too
[11:53:20] <fragalot> probably better
[11:53:31] <fragalot> (inb4 graphite)
[11:53:57] <rob_h> should self lubrecate
[11:55:39] <JT-Shop> http://rotarysystems.com/series-011
[11:55:58] <ssi> the chnc spindle does 6000rpm?
[11:56:03] <JT-Shop> yea
[11:56:06] <ssi> holy jeez
[11:56:20] <JT-Shop> you should see it when you have too much P
[11:56:25] <ssi> suppose it's unwise to run the hnc spindle that fast?
[11:56:40] <rob_h> my superslant does 6000rpm too.. but u want a good barfeed todo that with 4m hanging out the back
[11:57:04] <JT-Shop> yea, that could whop the fire of everything within 3m
[11:57:45] <rob_h> ssi i dont know. not sure on the bearing sizes and type in there
[11:57:52] <fragalot> rob_h: shop I used to work for had that go wrong once
[11:58:08] <rob_h> what go wrong?
[11:58:16] <fragalot> barfeeder pulled the nuts out of the concrete floor & started dancing, all of the guide bearing plate thingies inside of it got torn out
[11:58:20] <ssi> I wouldn't mind overspeeding that motor some, but I want to know what the bearings can take somehow
[11:58:33] <Tom_itx> you have a feed tube don't you?
[11:58:33] <Tom_itx> to hide the bar
[11:58:34] <fragalot> the feed chain itself broke, and there were various dents in the chassis of it
[11:58:43] <ssi> motor's only 1150rpm
[11:58:57] <Tom_itx> mmm
[11:59:00] <fragalot> wasn't pretty the next morning...
[11:59:00] <rob_h> aah yea we have multi size hydrolic feeders on our lathes.. so bars fit quite nice and run nice and quite too
[11:59:10] <fragalot> (that machine ran 24/7à
[11:59:37] <fragalot> rob_h: that machine HAD a nice fit until it went wrong, lol
[11:59:43] <fragalot> still not sure what caused it
[11:59:48] <Tom_itx> fragalot pour footing under it :)
[12:00:11] <fragalot> Tom_itx: it *WAS* anchored in concrete with 14mm studs :P
[12:00:37] <fragalot> all I can think of it that SOMEHOW something caused it to vibrate & a poor concrete quality
[12:01:04] <fragalot> (it had machined the same part it was working on before it happened roughly 40k times)
[12:01:19] <kb8wmc> .... . .-.. .-.. ---
[12:01:35] <rob_h> someone forgot a bar prep and out cam the pushing at spindle end
[12:01:35] <fragalot> anyway it got a new barfeeder & is now making the same parts again, lol
[12:01:48] <ssi> hello yourself
[12:02:01] <kb8wmc> lol....
[12:02:17] <fragalot> rob_h: possibly, I only saw the carnage after the bars were removed from it
[12:02:18] <ssi> (73 de n4ml)
[12:04:20] <kb8wmc> aha, qth?
[12:04:26] <kb8wmc> EN73 qth here
[12:06:12] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, it has been a while and no reset... think you fixed it THANKS
[12:06:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Lucky guess =)
[12:06:52] <ssi> EM74
[12:08:08] * JT-Shop wanders inside for a nap now...
[12:09:18] <Jymmm> BI28
[12:10:47] <ssi> Jymm is on a raft apparently
[12:10:48] <Jymmm> EN73, EM74 HA! Damn land lovers! Bi28 is where it's at biotch!
[12:11:26] <ssi> ooh that's near christmas island
[12:11:34] <ssi> you can go visit where they host goatse.cx
[12:11:44] <Jymmm> Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[12:22:52] <archivist> JT-Shop, Shire(publisher) tends to be small picture books looks expensive for one of those
[12:23:59] <archivist> JT-Shop, proper price direct http://www.shirebooks.co.uk/store/Stationary-Steam-Engines_9780852636527
[12:24:14] <archivist> about 20-30 pages
[12:24:29] <archivist> ah 32 if I look
[12:25:35] <archivist> I have an older one, no drawings
[12:44:37] <ssi> ok got the soldered coupler back in place
[12:44:45] <ssi> machine is running, but as I feared, my homing is all screwed up
[12:45:28] <IchGuckLive> ssi good practice
[12:45:40] <ssi> hah good practice for what
[12:45:50] <IchGuckLive> homing programming
[12:45:51] <ssi> the "machine tool setup triathlon"?
[12:47:09] <ssi> problem is it no longer catches a fine home at the same time as the coarse home
[12:47:17] <ssi> I gotta adjust the prox switch on fine home
[12:47:46] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: good day to you sir.....
[12:48:42] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: hi
[12:52:02] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/JTE4k.jpg
[12:52:09] <Tecan> is this even going to work ?
[12:53:45] <Nick001> Just turn the alum housing to where the switch works like it should
[12:54:34] <DJ9DJ> namd
[12:54:53] <IchGuckLive> Tecan: yes
[12:55:15] <Tecan> thanks :)
[12:55:22] <IchGuckLive> the ölaser will burn as the focus is generated in the head
[12:55:48] <Tecan> ya but the whole setup
[12:55:54] <Tecan> its just hacked together
[12:56:18] <Tecan> time for a few test fires
[12:57:01] <Nick001> ssi - if it happens again - use a marker and make a line to reassemble it close to where you were
[12:57:33] <ssi> Nick001: yeah that would have been clever, huh
[12:57:56] <ssi> I have it back open now, working on trying to realign the fine switch
[12:58:52] <IchGuckLive> tecan for 0.01mm precisan its enoph
[13:01:10] <cncbasher> Tecan: great to see someone live dangerously ...
[13:01:33] <cncbasher> http://www.m-machine-metals.co.uk/mm/website/engineering_movie_laser1.html
[13:01:39] <cncbasher> now turn the power up
[13:06:09] <Nick001> ssi - had a couple of them go over the years so I know your pain
[13:07:09] <IchGuckLive> cncbasher: not compare to a triumpf laser cutter
[13:08:32] <cncbasher> yea trumpf are ok , just repaired one last week all the mirrors had to be changed
[13:08:42] <cncbasher> that was a right pain
[13:08:55] <IchGuckLive> i got somany broken hads here of these to
[13:09:34] <IchGuckLive> in the video the watercooling right above the power is cool O.O
[13:10:18] <cncbasher> yea the lens is in a water cooled jacket
[13:11:04] <IchGuckLive> in the video why are the parts not lalling out it got a full motion around wonders !!
[13:11:13] <cncbasher> also the nozzle is springloaded
[13:12:28] <cncbasher> the material is laid on cross hatch type frame
[13:13:14] <IchGuckLive> ah yes now otherwise it woudt not me that flat
[13:14:17] <cncbasher> the frame is made up with stringers about 6" apart
[13:15:27] <IchGuckLive> thickness ?
[13:16:09] <cncbasher> the frame ? or the panel it is cutting ?
[13:16:22] <IchGuckLive> is the air pressure controled or strait fixed 6bar
[13:16:45] <IchGuckLive> the stringers
[13:16:55] <cncbasher> air pressure is only 2 bar , but variable
[13:17:17] <cncbasher> stringers 1inch and a 1/4 deep
[13:17:28] <cncbasher> x 1/8"
[13:17:50] <cncbasher> with a main section across the centre
[13:18:11] <cncbasher> i'll photo it during the week and show up
[13:18:16] <cncbasher> show you
[13:18:36] <IchGuckLive> that sounds good 6" soundet very with
[13:18:45] <IchGuckLive> very spacy
[13:19:12] <cncbasher> we dont have any problem and it means the small part fall through
[13:19:51] <cncbasher> rather than catch or rise up and catch the head
[13:20:07] <IchGuckLive> yes it is pretty working that way Thought about the sheet hanging
[13:21:11] <cncbasher> the sheet is clamped at the righthand side only
[13:21:28] <cncbasher> and just laid across
[13:21:31] <cncbasher> works fine
[13:23:25] <IchGuckLive> isent the co2 pressure controled every head up
[13:23:33] <JT-Shop> hmmm, I feel much better now and look no resets!
[13:24:03] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: BBQ still up
[13:24:09] <cncbasher> your back up and runnng JT ?
[13:24:19] <JT-Shop> I think so
[13:25:04] <JT-Shop> archivist, what about this book? http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Steam-Engines-Joshua-Rose/dp/1931626154/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333303864&sr=1-6
[13:25:19] <IchGuckLive> im off by
[13:26:34] <JT-Shop> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/modern-steam-engines-joshua-rose/1101969574
[13:27:16] <ssi> argh
[13:27:29] <ssi> one of the wires on the stupid little taper pin terminal blocks is broken
[13:27:40] <archivist> I though amazon was supposed to be cheap
[13:28:01] <ssi> ssi> one of the wires on the stupid little taper pin terminal blocks is broken
[13:28:17] <ssi> anyone have any brilliant suggestions on how to pull those stupid things without the proper tool?
[13:29:46] <JT-Shop> looks like barnes & noble is cheaper
[13:29:55] <archivist> taper pins, pin punch the small end
[13:30:03] <ssi> can't get to the small end
[13:30:05] <JT-Shop> ssi drill it out and solder it back
[13:30:10] <ssi> JT-Shop: hrm
[13:45:30] <Nick001-Shop> is the pin broken or just the wire?
[13:49:22] <ssi> the wire broke off at the pin
[13:49:25] <ssi> I have it soldered back now
[13:49:30] <ssi> but I'm not real confident in it :/
[14:04:17] <tom3p> JT-Shop, dont forget powell's for used books, 394 stem engine entries http://www.powells.com/s?kw=steam+engine&class=
[14:04:18] <tom3p> ( and back issues of Model Engineering )
[14:07:06] <JT-Shop> didn't know abut powell's
[14:08:57] <archivist> Model Engineering did a marine engine, a local company does the castings
[14:10:30] <archivist> https://vault1.secured-url.com/reeves2000/shop_subcategory.asp?cat_id=9
[14:14:19] <ssi> oh ffs
[14:14:28] <ssi> get one wire fixed and anotehr one breaks :(
[14:14:42] <chrisRa> I have been having a problem with my mill, thinking it was losing steps or backlash, but I`ve realised it is actually end float in the stepper motor, physically pushing the leadscrew. The leadscrews are currently drilled 1/4" in the end and tapped m4. The motor spindle pushes into the 1/4" bore and directly drives the leadscrew. What is the correct method of removing this end float?
[14:14:46] <JT-Shop> they are real delicate
[14:15:27] <JT-Shop> stepper motors should never have thrust loads
[14:15:54] <chrisRa> I`ve read what I can on the net and it seems I should have bearings somewhere...I can`t visualise how or where!
[14:16:05] <archivist> chrisRa, normally the stepper has a flexible connection and the leadscrew has its own bearings to control endfloat
[14:18:42] <chrisRa> So really, is there no option for me other than to make a bracket to step the motor off the main frame of the machine?
[14:19:30] <CareBear\> or shorten the axis
[14:20:08] <chrisRa> in what way?
[14:20:27] <seb_kuzminsky> wooo!!! 2.5.0 is released! :-)
[14:21:52] <archivist> chrisRa, or go to belt drive and have the motor under the axis
[14:22:21] <chrisRa> that is a big change and much more money
[14:23:14] cradek changed topic of #linuxcnc to: LinuxCNC is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: 2.5.0 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | Name change? http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/32195
[14:24:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: For your gantry... http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002898-4_ways_rainproof_hoist_pushbutton_switch_pendant_control_station_w_emergency_stop.html
[14:25:29] <XXPCWXX> chrisRa: whats the far end bearing? is there room for a thrust bearing there?
[14:26:50] <chrisRa> there is none, it is floating as well!
[14:27:34] <chrisRa> Although it may be the best option to turn a little bearing block and fit a thrust bearing in the end of that so that the leadscrew pushes up against it.
[14:27:40] <archivist> then just ass a spring loaded bearing to an end
[14:27:43] <archivist> add
[14:29:04] <chrisRa> spring loaded bearing?
[14:29:43] <archivist> wavy spring behind a normal bearing, seen in motors etc
[14:29:44] <tom3p> cardek et al : congratulations on the new release, thanks for all the hard work
[14:30:02] <tom3p> cradek (scusa)
[14:31:00] <archivist> chrisRa, http://www.smalley.com/wave_springs/about_springs.asp
[14:31:19] <XXPCWXX> Yes a big thanks to all involved!
[14:31:44] <frallzor> yoyo
[14:31:59] <chrisRa> archivist: being spring loaded, wouldn`t that give a little play still from the motor end float?
[14:32:33] <archivist> just make the spring above forces expected
[14:34:56] <frallzor> springs work nice if you do as archivist said, works like charm on my mechmate =)
[14:36:31] <archivist> best is a pair of proper axial bearings preloaded at one end
[14:38:47] <ReadError> afternoon 'yall
[14:39:56] <ssi> XXPCWXX: got my machine back running with the soldered coupler
[14:45:39] <JT-Shop> sweet
[14:45:59] <ssi> homing's working again, but I'm going to have to recalibrate everything
[14:46:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: and sour
[14:46:29] <JT-Shop> but I don't read chinese
[14:46:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what/who you calling sweet?
[14:48:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: a good size perspective http://iw.suntekstore.com/office_cache/273/14002898/iw1316678563_14002898_5_image.jpg
[14:51:04] <syyl_> finished my lathe stand :D
[14:51:05] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMG_0259.jpg
[14:51:36] <JT-Shop> Nice!
[14:51:59] <syyl_> acts also as a cooleant and chip tray :)
[14:53:07] <ssi> syyl_: very nice...
[14:53:13] <ssi> syyl_: I have a similar project in the wings
[14:53:39] <ssi> syyl_: my little lathe is the same casting as yours, and I'm going to make a new table with chip tray and coolant sump for it out of steel tube and sheetmetal
[14:53:52] <syyl_> ah :)
[14:54:04] <ReadError> anyone here use a taig mill?
[14:54:19] <ssi> JT-Shop: I've been working on resealing my plasma's water table... it leaked
[14:54:19] <syyl_> i added a massive central column, to give a bit more rigidity
[14:54:27] <ssi> just filled it up with water to test it, and it still leaks a little bit :(
[14:54:39] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/untergestell4.png
[14:54:55] <ssi> wow
[15:01:05] <JT-Shop> ssi, what do you use in your water to stablilze it?
[15:05:16] <ssi> JT-Shop: I bought some sodium nitrite and some fungicide, but I never put them in because it leaks
[15:18:03] <JT-Shop> yea I use sodium nitrite and physan 20
[15:18:12] <JT-Shop> gotta fix them leaks
[15:39:29] <ssi> I think physan 20 might be what I have as well
[15:39:42] <ssi> I think it's actually leaking a little bit around the silicone
[15:39:50] <ssi> I see tiny little bubbles form at the edge of the fillet
[15:47:27] <tom3p> ssi: spray on pickemuptruck bed liner? we used it to refurb wire edm tanks (re-doing baked on enamel was too expensive)
[15:47:52] <tom3p> and very forgiving to dropped stock ( enamel chipped )
[15:49:39] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:59:33] <ssi> tom3p: I used rubberized undercoating
[15:59:38] <ssi> plus silicone fillets in the cracks
[16:04:26] <tom3p> ssi: sorry to hear that, seems something dont stick to somebody tho. and i know its a mess to start again ( btdt )
[16:09:17] <ssi> yeah it's probably because I'm lazy and don't like to prep
[17:19:36] <JT-Shop> dang it a cut off wheel on a angle grinder will cut right through MIG welding gloves :/
[17:25:41] <KimK_ibmlaptop> Hi JT, be careful, we want you to be able to type when you get your fancy new satellite internet. How are things there otherwise? Congratulations on the 2.5 release, thanks for all your hard work on it.
[17:27:02] <frallzor> angle grinders cuts through thumbs too
[17:27:08] <frallzor> I know =P
[17:59:56] <alex_joni> http://www.google.com/js/reallyadvanced.html
[18:02:38] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_UmWdcTrrc&feature=player_embedded#!
[18:31:51] <ssi> is it possible to force a G43 after every tool change?
[18:36:09] <Jymmm> Question #1: How in the hell did he make this? It blooms in under 10s. He says it's 20F in the garage and that he did NOT preheat the stove. There is mention that he used 5 cans to make this one stove... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzd0mGZjb-0
[18:37:18] <Jymmm> Question #2: WHY can't you just set on top of this stove without it trying to go out. I thought it might have been a heatsink thing, but after playing around I dont think that's it.
[18:37:30] <Jymmm> s/top/pot
[18:37:44] <Jymmm> /
[18:39:45] <Jymmm> and it blooms without priming it either!
[18:50:20] <Jymmm> Here is another one of his videos of them... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0gQcSA3jhk&feature=channel
[18:55:34] <Jymmm> Denatured alcohol boils around 172F/78C, so doesn't that mean he has to not only get the metal that hot, but also produce alcohol gas all within 10 seconds?
[19:02:34] <alex_joni> Jymmm: looks like a side burner
[19:02:36] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverage-can_stove
[19:13:52] <Jymmm> alex_joni: But the thing is he can get it to full bloom with no priming in less than 10 seconds!
[19:15:30] <Jymmm> alex_joni: He mentions that ONE stove take FIVE cans to build. I can only think he's using the extra sheets as coils within the double-wall. There's no "external" wicking he says, sound like he's implying that there's internal wicking of some sort,
[19:16:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni: which sorta kinda makes sense as then the fuel would be spread out more across the metal
[19:27:29] <Jymmm> alex_joni: But I can't figure out what type of configuration would use 4 cans within the double-wall and maybe some wicking. Layered and curled? squarewave shaped? something else?
[19:29:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I keep trying to think like a heatsink, where the more surface area there is the better. But since the heat source is the center, not sure what type of pattern would disburse the heat the best.
[19:31:33] <mozmck> maybe here's another candidate for a linuxcnc computer: http://dmitry.co/index.php?p=./04.Thoughts/07.%20Linux%20on%208bit
[19:33:56] <Jordan__> anyone know the diff in a 1"TPI screw vs a 1"TPI pulley/belt system? Would it take the same torque to move them?
[19:34:18] <alex_joni> Jymmm: "This stove blossoms fast due to the size of the holes.
[19:34:18] <alex_joni> Not sure that getting a quick blossom is the best thing.
[19:34:20] <alex_joni> What is most important is how hot and long she can burn."
[19:35:16] <mozmck> Jordan__: I don't think a pulley/belt system is measured in TPI?
[19:35:19] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I haven't seen, nor been able to get a bloom in less than 30s and that is WITH priming it.
[19:35:32] <Jordan__> mozmck, just making a comparison if it were
[19:35:42] <Jordan__> try to get all variables out
[19:36:15] <Jordan__> i'm talking turn per inch
[19:36:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni: From what I do know, larger jets == hotter flame and more fuel consumption.
[19:36:35] <mozmck> I think if the ratio is the same so the motor turns the same number of turns per inch the torque should be roughly the same.
[19:37:13] <mozmck> The only difference would be in losses which I think (not totally sure) would be about the same.
[19:37:19] <Jymmm> Jordan__: are ALL the pulleys have the same qty of teeth?
[19:38:38] <Jymmm> If the pulley on the motor has (let's say) ten teeth, and the leadscrew (or whatever) pulley has 20 teeth, then it's a 2:1 ratio.
[19:39:28] <mozmck> ubuntu on an AVR is pretty amazing.
[19:39:59] <Jymmm> It takes about 2 hours to boot to bash prompt
[19:40:02] <Jordan__> i'm trying to compare turns, 1 turn on each translates to 1" linear
[19:40:20] <Jymmm> Then 4 more hours to boot up the entire Ubuntu
[19:40:36] <Jymmm> Starting X takes a lot longer.
[19:41:04] <mozmck> yeah, but that it runs at all it something. and on top of an ARM emulator too.
[19:41:23] <Jymmm> mozmck: Oh, I think it's VERY FUCKING COOL!!!
[19:41:37] <Jymmm> mozmck: I even have some SIMMs around here too =)
[19:42:05] <mozmck> Heh, I don't have time to mess with something like that - or I would :)
[19:42:26] <Jymmm> mozmck: Like like you have to be fast or anything =)
[20:17:35] <alex4nder> hey
[20:46:03] <ReadError> ordered a mill ;)))))
[20:56:27] <alex4nder> nice
[21:33:35] <Jordan__> hey if i wanted speed why don't i just get a 6tpi drive screw, with a 7.5degree motor
[21:33:47] <Jordan__> this one is $2
[21:33:52] <Jordan__> http://www.nmbtc.com/pdf/motors/PM55L048.pdf
[21:36:29] <Jordan__> it looks like it has amazing torque
[21:37:16] <Jordan__> actually no
[21:38:04] <Jordan__> but it's not too bad
[21:59:54] <Jordan__> would it be stupid to use a cheap PM 7.5-15 degree stepper with a Drive Screw if I wanted to sacrifice resoultion for speed?
[22:00:06] <Jordan__> insead of a hybrid?
[22:02:48] <ssi> why not just get motors that you can run fast, so you get speed and resolution at the same time
[22:03:32] <Jordan__> key word cheap
[22:03:52] <Jordan__> i don't mind sacrificing resolution for speed, i don't want to sacrifice precision
[22:04:06] <Jymmm> second key word: bastard!
[22:04:21] <Jymmm> Now, put them all together and what do you get??/
[22:04:27] <Jordan__> ...
[22:04:45] <Jymmm> Everybody who has ever joined this channel!
[22:05:25] <Jymmm> Then they learn in 3 months they wasted a few hundred when they could have just got what they needed the first time had they listened =)
[22:05:46] <Jordan__> so get the most expensive motor one can buy?
[22:05:59] <Jymmm> I never said that
[22:07:01] <Jymmm> One option http://www.surpluscenter.com/
[22:07:09] <Jordan__> the idea is to exchange high resolution steppers belts combo, with high resolution drive screw and low resolution stepper
[22:07:31] <Jordan__> should qualify low rez stepper high speed
[22:07:33] <Jymmm> Jordan__: for a laser?
[22:07:38] <Jordan__> no a 3d printer
[22:07:42] <Jymmm> ah
[22:08:23] <Jordan__> basically very little load
[22:08:50] <Jymmm> so you could use belts even?
[22:09:49] <Jordan__> yes, with about a 30N-cm 1.8 degree motor
[22:11:07] <Jordan__> I wanted to possibly switch to drive screw, but it wouldn't compete with speed of belt. So 5-6 TPI drive screw with a fast high degree PM motor
[22:11:34] <Jordan__> http://www.nmbtc.com/pdf/motors/PM55L048.pdf for instance
[22:11:56] <Jordan__> this is $2 a piece on ebay
[22:13:09] <Jordan__> 48steps/rev
[22:13:20] <Jordan__> compared to 200steps/rev of a hybrid
[22:13:40] <Jordan__> but 48 steps/rev is fine on a drive screw
[22:14:16] <Jordan__> do you get my meaning sir
[22:15:15] <Jordan__> as an added benefit they wouldn't run as hot don't think
[22:15:30] <ssi> stepper motors are one of the cheapest parts of building most machines
[22:15:45] <ssi> I don't see the point of trying to scrimp so hard
[22:16:02] <Jordan__> well for one It would be a necessity
[22:16:02] <ssi> false economy
[22:16:13] <Jordan__> these PM motors look like they spin faster
[22:16:44] <Jordan__> a nece ssi ty!
[22:17:21] <ssi> wut
[22:19:14] <Jordan__> 2 they wouldn't run as hot...
[22:19:25] <Jordan__> 3 it would be cheaper
[22:20:37] <Jordan__> 4 smaller power supply
[22:21:08] <ssi> you can't get something for nothing
[22:21:23] <ssi> if it takes X power to run with the bigger motors, it'll take X power to run with the smaller
[22:21:23] <Jordan__> what is it you think i'm getting for nothing
[22:21:35] <Jordan__> no i changed the drive mechanism
[22:21:41] <ssi> doesn't matter
[22:21:42] <ssi> work is work
[22:22:25] <Jordan__> i thought you get way more torque out of drive screw
[22:22:55] <ssi> you can trade torque for speed or speed for torque, but work is work
[22:23:18] <djdelorie> gears change torque but not horsepower (not counting efficiency losses ;)
[22:23:19] <Jordan__> what i lost was the resolution of the stepper
[22:23:38] <Jordan__> but i gained back with the drive
[22:23:40] <ssi> my point is if you want to move the same mass at the same or higher speed
[22:23:40] <Jordan__> sorry lead screw
[22:23:45] <ssi> you can't do so with a smaller power supply
[22:23:53] <ssi> regardless of resolution or drive mechanism
[22:24:47] <ssi> also bear in mind that acme screws aren't the worlds most efficient power transfers
[22:25:01] <ssi> and those little $2 printer motors likely won't have the power to do much
[22:25:21] <ssi> also, you're way better off going with a nema form factor
[22:25:39] <ssi> otherwise when you finally realize that your $2 motors aren't cutting it, you're gonna have more work for yourself trying to change out the motors
[22:27:01] <Jordan__> yea actually thes don't even spin fast enough
[22:33:04] <ssi> how much do you expect to spend on the rest of the machine?
[22:38:48] <KimK> Has anyone tried 2.5.0 on a real machine yet?
[22:39:14] <ssi> I've been on the 2.5 branch for awhile, but I haven't pulled since the official release
[22:40:06] <KimK> OK, thanks, just curious.
[23:08:43] <Jordan__> i'm already building one now, just waiting on electronics board.