#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-22

[00:17:36] <ssi> why is the 3d printer community so full up with lame
[00:19:46] <alex4nder> because it's full of foolish hipsters
[00:19:53] <ssi> good answer
[00:20:17] <alex4nder> I have a friend that thinks that mills are pointless because it's so easy to 3D print metals.
[00:20:22] <ssi> friend of mine is talking about spending $1800 on a makerbot
[00:20:32] <alex4nder> he think that in three years we'll all be laser sintering titaniums in our guest rooms.
[00:20:38] <ssi> hahahaha
[00:20:50] <alex4nder> he has no clue about the physics of it all
[00:22:10] <ssi> well good luck to him :P
[00:23:24] <alex4nder> yah
[00:23:35] <alex4nder> I think the issue is that 3D printing sounds so much sexier and easier than milling.
[00:23:42] <ssi> of course it does
[00:23:43] <alex4nder> it's also more "logical" that you'd add rather han subtract.
[00:23:47] <alex4nder> but ..
[00:23:52] <ssi> seems "greener"
[00:23:53] <ssi> or something
[00:23:54] <ssi> heh
[00:24:53] <ssi> people are mostly bad at thinking
[00:25:27] <ssi> I got in a big argument recently with a guy who's flat convinced that the Terrafugia is going to revolutionize business travel
[00:26:46] <alex4nder> haha
[00:27:18] <ssi> and his expert opinion was based on the fact that he's never designed a car, and never FLOWN a plane, let alone designed one
[00:27:25] <JustinXJS> The aerocar was supposed to do that too
[00:27:33] <ssi> but he's been on lots of passenger jets and heard that carbon fiber "has come a long way"
[00:27:50] <alex4nder> o rly?
[00:27:54] <alex4nder> from before it was carbon fiber
[00:27:56] <ssi> carbon fiber is another one of those "magic technologies"
[00:28:12] <ssi> laypeople know just enough about it to know that it can do ANYTHING
[00:28:26] <alex4nder> like be really expensive to repair
[00:28:42] <ssi> yeah, that's one of it's most significant properties ;)
[00:28:59] <ssi> not only that, but its fatigue and failure modes are scary as shit
[00:29:09] <ssi> it's very difficult to NDI
[00:29:31] <alex4nder> I had a friend that ran into a beer cooler on the freeway in his Lotus Elise
[00:29:43] <ssi> ahaha
[00:29:46] <ssi> I bet that was spectacular
[00:29:53] <alex4nder> the bill was fantastic
[00:30:09] <alex4nder> it's what happens when you make a car from fiberglass and epoxied aluminum extrusins.
[00:30:11] <ssi> shit i hit a truck retread in the road a couple months ago
[00:30:17] <alex4nder> no body shop will touch that
[00:30:20] <ssi> in my solid metal VW
[00:30:25] <ssi> and it still did $5k worth of damage
[00:30:40] <alex4nder> yah
[00:30:49] <ssi> i have a friend that's into ridiculous high end carbon road bikes
[00:30:59] <ssi> and he was carrying his bike through a door that had a gas cylinder to close it
[00:31:03] <ssi> and the door sorta closed hard on the frame
[00:31:06] <ssi> and destroyed it
[00:31:15] <ssi> $10k frame
[00:32:03] <alex4nder> :(
[00:32:10] <ssi> but yeah
[00:32:20] <ssi> there's a reason I'm building an aluminum airplane and not a composite one :)
[00:32:26] <ssi> (and that reason is mostly that I really hate sanding)
[00:33:10] <alex4nder> yah
[02:30:39] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:53:03] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:14:24] <alex_joni> Jymmm: pong
[03:15:13] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Do you know how to script a program to send via serial port under windows?
[03:19:31] <Valen> pyserial = ftw ;->
[03:31:36] <alex_joni> or cygwin
[03:31:47] <alex_joni> Jymmm: nope, not really..
[03:31:59] <Jymmm> alex_joni: thanks
[03:32:01] <alex_joni> probably a google search might find something, but I'm not sure what you need
[03:32:12] <alex_joni> I used hyperterminal under windows :)
[03:32:26] <alex_joni> and for debugging hhd or something like that
[03:33:23] <alex_joni> http://free-serial-port-monitor.hhd-software.qarchive.org/
[03:33:27] <alex_joni> soemthing like that
[03:33:28] <alex_joni> bbl
[03:56:59] <Loetmichel> brrr, diesel has gotten expensive overe here :-( -> http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/442560.html
[04:10:04] <anonimas1> ssi: yeah additive machining is nice, _but_ anything structural
[04:10:26] <anonimas1> ssi: btw, sheetcam works really nice for 2.5d stuff like plasma/oxyfuel..
[04:35:49] <Mjolinor> OK happily sorted the path from inkscape to dxf then heeks import / export to G code for cutting fonts in relief or standing proud
[04:36:08] <Mjolinor> anyone tell me how to do it for line fonts like engraving where the letter is jsut a single cut?
[05:22:22] <awallin> Mjolinor: do you want to do V-carving?
[05:52:58] <Mjolinor> if htat is what it is called
[05:53:07] <Mjolinor> just one path for the letter with a pointed cutter
[05:54:23] <Mjolinor> I have soem disks of bell metal left over form the recasting of a bell at a local church and htey want me to engrave them wiyht pretty pictures dats etc saying wht they are to give to the dorky bell ringers
[05:55:06] <Mjolinor> and in english: They want me to engrave them with dates, location and other info saying what they are
[06:00:43] <jdhnc> http://timeguy.com/cradek/truetype
[06:01:19] <Mjolinor> I can do fonts that way but I want jsut a single outline not a raised or sunk shape
[06:01:30] <jdhnc> http://home.comcast.net/~sskroch/Fengrave/fengrave.html
[06:02:12] <Mjolinor> that's it, cheers :)
[06:02:20] <Mjolinor> I think
[06:02:27] <jdhnc> or something that does hershey type single stroke fonts
[06:02:44] <Mjolinor> I thought hershey were toffee bars in the US
[06:10:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni: thanks
[06:28:08] <alex_joni> Jymmm: for nothing ;)
[06:28:30] <Jymmm> eh
[06:31:29] <Mjolinor> this is excellent, it does circles too so I can do clock faces :)
[06:52:55] <jthornton> who is the author of f-engrave?
[06:56:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[06:57:11] <Tom_itx> wrong cutter there but my cam does engraving
[07:00:35] <jthornton> nice
[07:02:45] <Tom_itx> your name appears in the files there jt
[07:02:53] <Tom_itx> Source was used from the following works:
[07:02:53] <Tom_itx> engrave-11.py G-Code Generator -- Lawrence Glaister --
[07:02:53] <Tom_itx> GUI framwork from arcbuddy.py -- John Thornton --
[07:02:53] <Tom_itx> cxf2cnc.py v0.5 font parsing code --- Ben Lipkowitz(fenn)--
[07:02:53] <Tom_itx> dxf.py DXF Viewer (http://code.google.com/p/dxf-reader/)
[07:02:53] <Tom_itx> DXF2GCODE (http://code.google.com/p/dxf2gcode/)
[07:03:08] <jthornton> cool
[07:03:44] <awallin> hm that font parsing code might be interesting. if it has kerning support. that is where truetype-tracer fails..
[07:06:28] <jdhnc> does fengrave work in linux?
[07:06:56] <jdhnc> guess I should have just kept reading, nevermind!
[07:17:53] <fenn> aroo?
[07:20:55] <fenn> there is a basic sort of kerning, in that you can adjust the spacing between letters, but it's a constant value and doesn't change between different letters
[07:21:51] <fenn> xoffset += char_spacing + char_width
[07:24:51] <fenn> neat, f-engrave does v carving? i had been meaning to do that
[07:41:05] * jthornton goes to take a shower while the v carve video loads... damm dial up is slow
[07:41:24] <awallin> I found a lot of letter-combinations that produce overlapping geometry with truetype-tracer. Does your code output the font outline as line-segments/arcs/cubics/conics ?
[07:42:36] <Jymmm> awallin: you mean a reducing kerning?
[07:42:43] <Jymmm> reduced
[07:43:15] <awallin> kerning in this case would mean a variable extra spacing between letters that depends on which two letters are adjacent
[07:43:43] <awallin> here http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/01/with-freeserifbolditalic-dont-ever-write-zj/
[07:44:43] <Jymmm> that looks just like a bad designed font
[07:45:33] <Jymmm> There are literally MILLIONS out there, pick another.
[07:49:34] <fenn> apparently my code only does counterclockwise arcs, go figure
[07:49:57] <fenn> thought i fixed that, oh well
[07:51:37] <fenn> looks like f-engrave only outputs G1 and G0
[07:53:47] <fenn> after reading your blog post i think you want something else
[07:54:52] <fenn> the cxf fonts that come with qcad are derived from truetype and the hershey stick fonts
[07:55:47] <fenn> so whatever font outlines exist in cxf format were created by the ttt2cxf program, and if it ignores kerning then the cxf fonts wont have kerning either
[07:56:51] <fenn> ttf2cxf*
[07:58:29] <fenn> good luck finding it though
[08:02:16] <Jymmm> cxf? is that a qcad thing?
[08:03:30] <fenn> yeah it's some bizarro font format
[08:03:58] <awallin> it's not the design of the font. as my images show, there is enough spacing between the letters in GIMP, but not in LibreOffice. So it's how you use the font, or then there's a separate lookup table for kerning offset.
[08:04:57] <fenn> i'm guessing the latter
[08:05:37] <fenn> "'kern' table: The (optional) part of a TrueType font file where *kerning information is stored. See Apple's spec or Microsoft's spec for the format in detail."
[08:05:52] <Jymmm> GET IT WHILE YOU CAN.... ftp://ribbonsoft.com/archives/ttf2cxf/ttf2cxf-
[08:06:06] <awallin> thee FreeType docs seemed to indicate that cairo or some other higher level lib could do it
[08:06:10] <skunkworks> fenn: Hello!
[08:06:21] <awallin> pango maybe
[08:06:38] <jthornton> Jymmm: what is it?
[08:06:40] <fenn> https://developer.apple.com/fonts/TTRefMan/RM06/Chap6kern.html
[08:06:53] <Jymmm> awallin: fenn http://fab.senselab.org/de/node/190
[08:06:58] <Jymmm> jthornton: http://fab.senselab.org/de/node/190
[08:07:11] <Jymmm> jthornton: TTF2CXF
[08:08:39] <Jymmm> fenn: WOW that's old!
[08:10:35] <Jymmm> Man, those single line fonts are bad. At least in comparison.
[08:11:24] <Jymmm> http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad/manual_reference/chapter35.html
[08:16:03] <fenn> yeah i'd rather use cairo_show_glyphs() instead of writing my own font parsing code
[08:19:36] <fenn> presumably a cairo svg surface would have the right kind of data in it
[08:19:40] <jthornton> hmmm v-carve sometimes does the outside of the font
[08:20:26] <jthornton> ah there we go just check off flip normals
[09:04:22] <pingufan> Hello, can somebody here, please, have a look on my G-Code program? My EMC2 infinitely loads,and loads, then the PC starts permanently swapping, ... I find no fault in this code. : http://www.hantsch.co.at/_temp/Fraeserstaender.ngc
[09:04:53] <jdhnc> after you load it, or after you run it?
[09:05:08] <pingufan> When I try to load it.
[09:06:04] <pingufan> It does not appear on the screen.
[09:07:13] <pingufan> I actually mill 100 holes and then cut it out.
[09:07:33] <pingufan> Nothing extraordinary. But did I code an endless loop?
[09:09:39] <pingufan> When I split the job in two parts, one with "Ausschneiden" removed, and one with drilling removed, each oth this two parts works.
[09:09:39] <cradek> you can abort a load by hitting escape
[09:10:28] <pingufan> Good to know, thank you, cradek. I didn't know that. But what can cause this strange effect?
[09:10:40] <pingufan> Is something wrong in my code?
[09:10:46] <cradek> almost surely
[09:11:21] <pingufan> Could you look inside, please? I find no fault. The code is really short.
[09:12:57] <jdhnc> you could comment out each call from the inside out and see when it loads successfully
[09:15:08] <pingufan> As I said: When I delete (or comment out) the second part (cutting out the workpiece, drilling works. And cutting out without drilling works, too. Both parts are run after each other. But when I leave both in the code, it does not load.
[09:15:38] <pingufan> This two parts have nothing to do with each other.
[09:16:59] <joe9> in my rtai installation, all run commands run fine except for kern/switches: http://codepad.org/9ev5Hg1z
[09:17:10] <joe9> it seems to show me the dmesg output
[09:17:27] <joe9> https://www.rtai.org/RTAILAB/RTAI-TARGET-HOWTO.txt instructions STEP 10 - Test the RTAI installation
[09:24:09] <jdhnc> joe9: are you trying to load emc on a different distribution?
[09:24:19] <joe9> yes, crux.
[09:25:03] <jdhnc> is there a distinct need to run it on 'crux', or do you just like making things difficult?
[09:26:34] <joe9> jdhnc: I just have a crux installation and I find it easier to stick with it. instead of trying to customize ubuntu to my needs.
[09:27:29] <jdhnc> you could have a happily running emc/ubuntu install in 15 mins
[09:28:06] <jdhnc> then if you find you can't stand ubuntu and must have a crux, you would know what to expect from a working install
[09:28:52] <pingufan> Btw., I would be very happy to get sshd running on my cnc-mill. I cannot get it installed, there are some strange dependices not solvable. Has sobeone here experience with that?
[09:29:19] <cradek> try a pastebin of the error messages and output
[09:29:24] <jdhnc> pingufan: also a non-ubuntu emc install?
[09:29:47] <pingufan> Nono. Original Ubuntu+EMC from ISO.
[09:30:21] <pingufan> AXIS 2.4.6
[09:30:32] <jdhnc> I've installed that on multiple boxes and sshd just works
[09:30:57] <pingufan> Normally this makes no problems, but not here.
[09:31:29] <cradek> pingufan: the problem is you've got two while loops named o201
[09:32:10] <pingufan> Oh! I read it so often and oversaw that.
[09:32:29] <pingufan> Why can't AXIS show an error when this happens?
[09:33:09] <cradek> that's a good question and I'm not sure of the answer
[09:33:21] <pingufan> Or allow to set a maximum nesting level, so it would bail out there?
[09:33:44] <cradek> there is a maximum recursion depth, but your problem was while loops
[09:34:22] <pingufan> I am rebooting my Ubuntu to get it working again. Then I will look on the code.
[09:35:16] <cradek> joe9: I don't know whether kern/switches is important, sorry
[09:37:05] <cradek> joe9: on my machine running the linuxcnc kernel/rtai, I get http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=mKheFhyh
[09:37:45] <joe9> ok, thanks for that.
[09:37:53] <pingufan> I assume it would always be valuable to check if a procedure is already defined.
[09:38:52] <cradek> pingufan: I agree, but that might be hard, because the interpreter just seeks for a matching label - it finds it and stops - doesn't know or care if there are others elsewhere
[09:42:12] <pingufan> Sure. But a simple search in a first pass, for making an inventory of procedures/subroutines/... on program load, before actually interpreting the whole code, would allow to rise an error like "line 1234: o201 is already defined"
[09:43:53] <pingufan> Especially because the interpreter does not allow local procedures/subs, this is a vital enhancement.
[09:43:55] <cradek> pingufan: perhaps file a bug report? I can sympathize with the idea that linuxcnc should report an error for any and all invalid gcode.
[09:44:09] <pingufan> :)
[09:44:54] <pingufan> Can I cal another .ngc file from a running one, either as "Sub-function" or branch to it?
[09:45:58] <cradek> yes a sub can be in another file, see "calling files" in docs
[09:47:59] <ssi> maybe someone should write a gcodelint
[09:48:41] <cradek> before O words, our interp was very good at rejecting everything that was invalid
[09:48:44] <alex_joni> ssi: good luck with that
[09:48:52] <cradek> the problem became much harder with the addition of O words
[09:49:21] <alex_joni> cradek: what about code remapping? or does that happen after interp?
[09:50:16] <cradek> do you mean it's even harder than I think?
[09:50:24] <alex_joni> I think so, yeah
[09:50:37] <alex_joni> or maybe it'll get even harder than it currently is
[09:50:44] <cradek> guess I'm not surprised
[09:51:05] <alex_joni> anyways.. time to hurry home :)
[09:55:28] <pingufan> cradek: I would add a syntax checker to the interpreter which verifies at least such dangerous things like definition of O-Words.
[09:56:33] <cradek> pingufan: terrific, someone will happily review your patches
[09:56:37] <pcw_> Thank you pingufan
[09:59:33] <jdhnc> s/would/will/
[10:01:35] <pingufan> I have no development experience with that. :(
[10:02:09] <pingufan> I code only in Pascal.
[10:08:12] <gravity> Hello everyone. I'm a student working on a project that involves using a CNC setup. What we have done is attempted to make a 'tracking' system where we utilize a 1-axis on movement, aka just the x-axis of a 3 axis system, and have a feedback loop to stabilize the location of the carriage above a small robot underneath. I'm have a couple issues with setting up the stepper motor that we are using.
[10:10:23] <gravity> We have a 305 stepper motor from hobbycnc along with their EZboard. The gantry/carriage system uses NEMA23 interface. We are controlling the board with EMC2. The issue that we are having is that the stepper is very choppy while accelerating u p to speed. Once we get it traveling at atleast 3 in/s then there is very smooth movement.
[10:11:42] <gravity> I have tried varying the microstepping on the board from 1 to 16, and yesterday it actually was running very smoothly at 16 microstepping, but its back to being very chopppy. I think that it might have something to do with a bad soldering or something, so i've gone back and repaired the ones that look bad, but it is still choppy.
[10:11:44] <cradek> have you tried various accel settings?
[10:12:03] <gravity> Yeah. even down at 1 in/s^2 its still choppy as hell
[10:12:26] <gravity> I've also varied the timings, from the default of 2000 up to waayy slower
[10:12:32] <cradek> do you see realtime errors when you first start emc?
[10:13:21] <gravity> Well, I'm doing most of this degging in stepconf. We are actually only using emc2 for the interface. I have connected a joystick that we are using for the feedback control, so essentially we are just 'jogging' the motor and not actually running any code.
[10:13:56] <gravity> I do get 'realtime delay' when i boot emc2 though, but it still is able to jog, just with the skipping
[10:14:26] <cradek> then you might have a very poorly-timed pulse train. you should debug that problem.
[10:14:36] <cradek> that error is there for a reason
[10:14:48] <gravity> Ok I will look into that :)
[10:15:05] <cradek> please pastebin your dmesg details after you get that error, would be interesting to see how bad it is
[10:15:06] <gravity> Will update with results ^.^
[10:15:10] <gravity> ok
[10:28:09] <gravity> http://pastebin.com/h6tmdYKb
[10:28:14] <gravity> This should be the dmesg
[10:28:40] <gravity> The thing is, I am getting good values from a sustained latency test, 45000 ish
[10:28:50] <JT-Shop> dang even my LAN took a hit and the router and gigabit switch don't work :/
[10:29:25] <A2Sheds> anyone have a plastic extruder for sale?
[10:29:27] <JT-Shop> good is 10,000
[10:29:57] <A2Sheds> or know of one for sale, small under 2"
[10:30:03] <JT-Shop> how big?
[10:30:25] <A2Sheds> high ratio 24:1 or higher
[10:30:40] <A2Sheds> bigger one would also work
[10:31:40] <JT-Shop> This time, there were 2563520 which is so anomalously [ 1403.265506] large that it probably signifies a problem with your [ 1403.265507] realtime configuration. For the rest of this run of [ 1403.265508] EMC, this message will be suppressed.
[10:32:44] <gravity> Yeah thats the part I noticed, does that have to do with lag in the serial port or would it be on the board?
[10:32:50] <JT-Shop> oh wow that is a long one
[10:35:19] <pcw_> is that 2.5 ms?
[10:35:20] <gravity> hrm. Would it have something to do with my Servo Thread (1.0 ms) latency being much higher than my Base Thread ( 25 micro s)?
[10:35:52] <gravity> On latency test i'm getting a max jitter of 44707 and 23267 for servo and base respectivly
[10:36:06] <gravity> But most online documentation shows that the first should be lower, not higher
[10:36:20] <JT-Shop> gravity: if you do a sudo dmesg -c before running EMC you will only have to wade through the output from the time you start emc
[10:36:57] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_Linux_FAQ.html#r1_6_6
[10:37:43] <pcw_> Oh I see its just CPU clocks or some such
[10:38:10] <JT-Shop> try a base thread of 65000
[10:38:54] <gravity> Is that modified in the .ini file?/
[10:39:04] <gravity> or the base period max jitter in the stepconf
[10:39:07] * JT-Shop wanders to town for a bit
[10:39:27] <JT-Shop> if you change in the ini file you can't run stepconf again
[10:40:05] <JT-Shop> just put 50000 in your jitter in stepconf
[10:40:08] <gravity> ok
[10:41:17] <gravity> ok. It made it much smoother, but it still is feeling like its skipping steps
[10:41:29] <gravity> and its still very loud
[10:41:51] <gravity> well, maybe not that smoother
[10:46:06] <gravity> Well I tried increasing the acceleration a little and that seemed to help, but it still is very choppy under 3 or so in/s. Its weird, because once i go just about 3 it stops all the extra noise and runs like butter
[10:47:04] <gravity> http://pastebin.com/ADphYc2J
[11:44:10] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[12:12:35] <TekniQue> @home was a big cable internet provider in the USA
[12:14:21] <Loetmichel> TekniQue: just for you: "i am back at home"
[12:14:23] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[12:31:02] <gravity> So if anyone is still here from the last time I posted, I was able to get it running very smoothly again. Just switched the motor connections back to the x-axis. I'm assuming that somewhere in the y there is a bad solder or something. Runs super smooth and has the joystick working perfectly!
[12:37:32] <jdhnc> joystick?
[12:38:20] <gravity> ya
[12:38:35] <gravity> We tore up a joystick to use the potentiometers attached to the universal joint
[12:39:09] <gravity> so that when the joystick is in a direction, it sends the info from the pots to give a variable output, aka all the way to the right =1, half way = .5 center =0
[12:39:18] <gravity> gives us faster jog if we move it all the way
[12:39:22] <gravity> however
[12:39:36] <jdhnc> what is the joystick hooked up to?
[12:39:38] <gravity> the joystick has a small, 10 degree, deadzone in the center so I'm trying to find an offset for it
[12:39:44] <gravity> USB to computer
[12:39:49] <gravity> interfacing with emc2
[12:48:01] <jdhnc> nifty. I could use one of those.
[12:59:12] <gravity> ugh left my camera cable at home otherwise I'd take a picture of it :/
[13:22:30] <Mjolinor> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/clock2.jpg
[13:22:35] <Mjolinor> good this v-carve thign :)
[13:23:53] <Mjolinor> quite happy really. My cutter is 0.2 mm and hte flat at the bottom of the cut is around 0.37 mm which is pretty good I htink considering they are £1 bearings and a £10 er11 spindle
[13:25:13] <IchGuckLive> Mjolinor: how long wars the path of the cut
[13:25:36] <Mjolinor> that disk is 30mm across
[13:26:02] <IchGuckLive> oh so the cutter is standing this
[13:26:16] <Mjolinor> ?
[13:26:35] <Mjolinor> the depth is 0.5 mm using a 90 degree V cutter off ebay
[13:26:40] <Mjolinor> one fo the really cheap ones
[13:26:56] <Mjolinor> I tried it with a 10 degree cutter but it broke :)
[13:31:38] <SolarNRG> We are guinia pigs for Lush, please have a look at our Scottish facemasks in hope to win a competition. I would like to hear what you think of the photo: http://i.imgur.com/QhXEp.jpg
[13:34:25] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: its dark outside O.o
[13:43:01] <SolarNRG> I spoke to someone today who makes signs with a big mill machine
[13:43:22] <SolarNRG> I asked about a CNC conversion but he said this machine was so big and so heavy it would need a forklift
[13:43:34] <SolarNRG> He's an old man who runs the bike shop around here
[13:44:56] <IchGuckLive> and whad does this has to do with this awaysome picture
[13:47:10] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: so you want a G-code pah of your picture
[14:04:06] <ssi> SolarNRG: melt your bean cans yet?
[14:14:09] <SolarNRG> Teh crucible didn't arrive
[14:14:12] <SolarNRG> I rang up my company
[14:14:20] <SolarNRG> They said it'd arrive Monday cos I'm in Scotland
[14:15:55] <ssi> we're dying to know! :P
[14:16:00] <ssi> literally
[14:16:33] <SolarNRG> It was a nice day today
[14:16:38] <SolarNRG> Instead I did a solar experiment
[14:18:55] <SolarNRG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaL-OyhwD6o
[14:19:02] <SolarNRG> Here's my solar experiment I filmed today ^^
[14:19:37] <SolarNRG> I was hoping to use this technology for a green welder
[14:19:41] <SolarNRG> or maybe hot water
[14:19:44] <SolarNRG> or maybe steam power
[14:20:07] <SolarNRG> but I haven't the kit yet to engineer turbine blades, manefolds, balanced shafts, etc.
[14:40:55] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: hrhr, you look like quite a young chap.
[14:41:39] <Loetmichel> question: why bother gluing mirror tiles on the dattelite dish?
[14:41:54] <Loetmichel> why not aluminium foil and polish it?
[14:42:01] <Loetmichel> sattelite
[14:48:22] <SolarNRG> mirrors are more reflective
[14:48:32] <SolarNRG> ally foil breaks and tears
[14:48:43] <SolarNRG> mirros are protected by glass and the glass can be cleaned
[14:48:54] <SolarNRG> its only a few thousand cuts with a tile cutter
[14:49:56] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[14:50:16] <Loetmichel> but you gice away active surface
[14:50:21] <Loetmichel> give
[14:50:45] <Loetmichel> and mirrors ARENT more reflective
[14:50:57] <Loetmichel> its aluminium as well as on the foil
[14:51:07] <mrsun> alu foil ? .. vaporized alu is the shit for mirrors
[14:51:23] <Loetmichel> and the glass over it dampens about 5% IIRC
[14:51:56] <Loetmichel> mrsun: i said: the back of the mirrors is aluminium just like the one in aluminium foil
[14:52:00] <Loetmichel> nothing else
[14:57:26] <SolarNRG> You're right loet, if I had a perfect parabola and a perfectly smooth reflective surface it would be SOOO much better
[14:57:40] <SolarNRG> But sadly as is, I'm working with tile cutters, bargain mirros, gloo
[14:57:45] <SolarNRG> old sky dishes
[14:57:57] <SolarNRG> Compared to you guys, I'm in the stone age
[15:00:06] <A2Sheds> yeah, use a satellite antenna as a form
[15:01:10] <SolarNRG> I'm broke
[15:01:20] <SolarNRG> Today's experiment was what I could do with what I had
[15:01:29] <A2Sheds> where are you located?
[15:01:32] <SolarNRG> I used to have a solar tracking system before I broke it
[15:01:33] <SolarNRG> Scotland
[15:01:51] <A2Sheds> was today the sunny day for the year?? :)
[15:02:00] <SolarNRG> Pretty much
[15:02:09] <SolarNRG> I even managed to buy a 2nd hand bike for 40 quid
[15:02:15] <SolarNRG> And I swept the path clear of broken glass
[15:05:29] <Loetmichel> whats pound / eur at the moment?`
[15:05:57] <SolarNRG> almost 1 for 1
[15:06:05] <SolarNRG> most xchanges rip u off
[15:10:42] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: get an old oil drum, some hammers , some cardboard cutted in parabola form, lots of patience. and then a bit spray glue and thick aluminium foil.
[15:11:04] <SolarNRG> that only makes a 1d parabola
[15:11:07] <SolarNRG> My PC is sat on one
[15:11:10] <SolarNRG> I'll take a snap
[15:11:10] <Loetmichel> ... and then again some patience for polishing it
[15:11:50] <Loetmichel> 1d?
[15:12:12] <SolarNRG> curves in only 1 axis
[15:12:13] <SolarNRG> I mean
[15:12:24] <Loetmichel> i meant: hammer the BOTTOM of the drum in form of the cardboard parabolas
[15:12:31] <Loetmichel> like a steel drum
[15:13:00] <SolarNRG> http://i.imgur.com/dM8eU.jpg
[15:13:03] <SolarNRG> Like this?
[15:13:11] <SolarNRG> This is now my trendy PC stand
[15:13:28] <SolarNRG> My laptop sits on this, keeps it nice and kewel, AND improves the wifi!
[15:14:27] <Loetmichel> no
[15:15:25] <Loetmichel> http://www.light-inside.de/weblogs/steeldrum.jpg
[15:15:28] <Loetmichel> like this
[15:15:33] <Loetmichel> but more parabolic
[15:15:38] <Loetmichel> :-)
[15:16:11] <Mjolinor> if you have 3 years to spare
[15:16:13] <SolarNRG> Wow, nce
[15:17:07] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: 3 jears?
[15:17:08] <SolarNRG> The one I made I painsteakingly marked out with a setsquare a parabolic equation onto two strips of laminate
[15:17:33] <Mjolinor> i would guess that long to make a oil drum a good parabola
[15:17:41] <Mjolinor> easier to jsut polish a satellite dish
[15:17:53] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: wrong
[15:18:33] <Loetmichel> anyone wit a bit "tactile intelligence" can make a steel drum in less than a month
[15:18:41] <Loetmichel> its not THAT complicated
[15:19:08] <Mjolinor> I thought you were talking about making an accurate polished parabolic reflector
[15:19:12] <Mjolinor> not a steel drum
[15:19:28] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: where's the difference
[15:19:42] <Loetmichel> a steel drum has to be as precise as a mirror
[15:19:50] <Loetmichel> only with another form
[15:19:53] <Mjolinor> bettween a parabolic reflector and a steel drum :o
[15:20:06] <Mjolinor> no, not even close
[15:20:12] <Loetmichel> and the manufacturing process is not different
[15:20:24] <Mjolinor> the accuracy required in a parabolic reflector is far far greater than is required for a steel drum
[15:20:31] <Loetmichel> -> beat away the steel until it gets to the desired form ;-)
[15:20:45] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: i doubt that
[15:20:50] <Mjolinor> I know it
[15:20:54] <Mjolinor> I have made steel drums
[15:21:14] <Mjolinor> and no way would I be able to make a parabolic reflector from an oil drum
[15:21:27] <Mjolinor> far far easier to polish a solid satellite dish
[15:21:32] <Loetmichel> better than an sattelite dish for sure
[15:21:58] <Mjolinor> but a satellite dish si the right shape to start with
[15:22:07] <Loetmichel> the dishes i know are SO far off the ideal curve....
[15:22:17] <Mjolinor> and as long as you start with a solid axial dish it will work extremely well
[15:22:29] <Mjolinor> I have used them for acoustic colection and htey work extremely well
[15:22:34] <Loetmichel> so get a rigid dish and deform it into desired shape
[15:22:54] <Mjolinor> a good KU band axial dish is very accurate if you buy a good one
[15:23:13] <Loetmichel> ... good one may be the culprit here ;-)
[15:23:18] <Mjolinor> :)
[15:23:19] <Mjolinor> probaly
[15:23:30] <Mjolinor> not talking the sort they give away with satellite subscriptions :)
[15:23:35] <Loetmichel> the cheap ones on the market are more or less "somewhat parabloic"
[15:24:16] <Mjolinor> its hard to find axial ones, they are usually offset
[15:25:00] <Loetmichel> the one on my balcony WASNT the cheapest one... and even that has beeen tuned by about 12dB just by bending it a litte more to a real parable ;-)
[15:25:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3803
[15:25:31] <Loetmichel> and yeas, its offset
[15:25:33] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[15:25:35] <Loetmichel> -e
[15:25:53] <Mjolinor> its hard to true up an offset dish
[15:25:59] <Mjolinor> its a lot easier with an axial
[15:26:09] <Mjolinor> and people dont realise how fragile tehy are
[15:26:16] <Loetmichel> oh, i do
[15:26:19] <Mjolinor> it's so easy to distort tehm when installing
[15:26:26] <Loetmichel> didnt
[15:26:43] <Loetmichel> it was already bent in the package ;-)
[15:28:50] <Loetmichel> (must have been a silly lokk: myself standing in front of the dish, one knee in the middle of it and PULLING on the rim for about half a hour , running inside to look at the signal measurement and back out countless times ;-)
[15:29:12] <SolarNRG> Could you not just CNC several parabolic guides that link and lock together at 90 degrees then just weld sheet aluminium over the grid?
[15:29:43] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: not if you want a spherical dish
[15:30:07] <SolarNRG> I DO NOT want spherical, I want parabolic, there IS a difference
[15:30:08] <Loetmichel> because metal sheets dont like bending in TWO directions at once very much ;-)
[15:30:11] <Loetmichel> grrr
[15:30:21] <Loetmichel> i meant 2d parabolic
[15:30:29] <Loetmichel> 1d is not a problem
[15:31:03] <alex4nder> hire some jamaicans to make you one out of an oil drum
[15:31:08] <alex4nder> or better yet, just buy a wok
[15:31:16] <Loetmichel> harhar
[15:32:48] <Mjolinor> if you jsut want to get a hot spot then I reckon wiht a 1 metre satellite dish and 1 inch sqaure mirrors accurately placed on the parabola you should have 160kw / sq inch at the focus point
[15:32:59] <Mjolinor> assuming 100 w/m2 sunshine
[15:33:16] <Mjolinor> thatsa lot of temperature
[15:33:31] <Loetmichel> if one has a BIG lathe one coud turn a BIG wood block to a parabolic shape, geht a even bigger aluminium plate adn then try oneself in netal pressing
[15:33:38] <Loetmichel> (is that the right term?)
[15:33:41] <Loetmichel> metal
[15:33:49] <Mjolinor> 100 w/m2 , 1 sq m dish, thats 40 x 40 x 100 watts
[15:33:57] <Mjolinor> thats a lot :o
[15:34:01] <SolarNRG> I've carved laminate strips into parabolic shapes
[15:34:03] <Mjolinor> must be doing soemthign wrong there :)
[15:34:06] <SolarNRG> But an entire block?
[15:35:21] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/solar.jpg
[15:35:37] <skunkworks_> one of many unfinished projects....
[15:35:58] <Loetmichel> ehrm: isnt 1000W/m^2 more like it? summer day, high noon, somwhre near the equator?
[15:36:01] <SolarNRG> I can rotate a 60cm diam dish no problemo
[15:36:11] <SolarNRG> I think the answer lies with rotating LOTS of dishes, not 1 BIG dish
[15:36:42] <Mjolinor> yup but I am in northern england and the 100 was form memory
[15:37:08] <Mjolinor> 160kw makes for a lot of heat though
[15:38:17] <skunkworks_> I think that was planned for 121 1ft^2 mirrors.
[15:38:33] <Mjolinor> I htink if you take a flat plate and support it on a ring tehn pull the centre backwards with a bolt through the middle then it should form a parabola
[15:39:01] <SolarNRG> I'd like to made a direct drive steam turbine, but I don't have a CNC machine to do it
[15:39:01] <Loetmichel> should it?
[15:39:11] <Loetmichel> not more like a sphere?
[15:39:17] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: you can do anything in metalwork with a drill and a file
[15:39:23] <Mjolinor> 121 1ft square mirrors in that climate may boil a kettle p[rovided you dont fill it too much
[15:39:24] <Loetmichel> my geometry class has been a while ;-)
[15:39:43] <Mjolinor> no I dont htink a sphere
[15:39:51] <alex4nder> and time
[15:40:03] <Mjolinor> thinking about the amount of metal to be deformed reduces as you get towrds the centre
[15:40:16] <Mjolinor> so the centre will distort more and I htink you will end up with a parabola
[15:40:28] <SolarNRG> You're telling me that by hand I could make a well balanced turbine with a hand file out of a single block of inconel?
[15:40:28] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[15:40:33] <Loetmichel> could be right
[15:40:55] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: IF you know how to file: yes
[15:41:15] <Mjolinor> infinate time, infinate monkeys = works of shakespeare
[15:41:17] <SolarNRG> That would take AGES
[15:41:17] <alex4nder> yes
[15:41:19] <Loetmichel> what do you think how the first machiens were built?
[15:41:26] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: ir would
[15:41:29] <Loetmichel> and then some
[15:41:36] <Loetmichel> but is IS possible ;.-)
[15:41:37] <alex4nder> the time is why the machines got built
[15:41:48] <SolarNRG> Couldn't I just ask a companuy who has CNC machines to make it for me?
[15:42:07] <alex4nder> yah, that's where the time == money comes into play
[15:42:19] <Mjolinor> you could but where is the fun in that?
[15:42:20] <Loetmichel> you could. but that would cut the other ressource you dont have: money ;-)
[15:42:23] <archivist> can you afford someone to machine inconel
[15:42:50] <SolarNRG> What's the damage for a 150mm diam turbine inconel fan these days?
[15:42:58] <alex4nder> if you have to ask...
[15:43:05] <archivist> you cant afford
[15:43:15] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: on a scrapyard: not much ;-)
[15:43:24] <Loetmichel> (old turbochargers)
[15:43:28] <SolarNRG> :o
[15:43:41] <SolarNRG> Can I make a steam turbine out of an old turbocharger?
[15:43:47] <Loetmichel> why not?
[15:43:50] <alex4nder> yah, if you're not picky about the rake/diameter
[15:43:57] <SolarNRG> Does it look like the inside of a jet engine?
[15:44:03] <alex4nder> no
[15:44:11] <alex4nder> it looks like a turbo
[15:44:23] <Mjolinor> you can make a jet enigne fomr a turbo if oyu get it right :)
[15:44:30] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: I feel like you and joe9 need to partner up
[15:44:35] <Loetmichel> it has more of a steam tubine than of a jet engine
[15:44:51] <SolarNRG> how many rpm can the shaft do?
[15:44:57] <Loetmichel> depends
[15:45:05] <SolarNRG> I need at least 2000 rpm to drive the alternator
[15:45:10] <SolarNRG> Or a bank of alternators
[15:45:12] <Loetmichel> "normal" cars about 100k to 200k rpm
[15:45:20] <SolarNRG> :o
[15:45:21] <SolarNRG> :D
[15:45:24] <SolarNRG> That's a lot of power :D
[15:45:34] <archivist> rpm is not power
[15:46:06] <SolarNRG> How do you advise machining the shaft of the turbocharger onto the alternator?
[15:46:15] <Loetmichel> i stand corrected: just rad 87kRPM at full throttle for a 2.5 liters Turbodiesel turbochager
[15:46:23] <Loetmichel> read
[15:46:31] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: plenty of turbos run up to the 150k RPM
[15:46:43] <alex4nder> that's the extreme though
[15:47:00] <SolarNRG> What sort of heat and pressure can they tolerate?
[15:47:03] <archivist> but alternators do not run up to that speed
[15:47:10] <SolarNRG> Like 1000 degree 450psi steam
[15:47:21] <SolarNRG> That's not a problem
[15:47:56] <alex4nder> I don't know how your turbo shaft seals are going to handle 450 PSI
[15:48:02] <SolarNRG> Because I can run the turbo at lower rpms if needbe by computer regulating the steam flow and reducing the load
[15:48:06] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: maybe 2 bar and red hot ;-)
[15:48:46] <SolarNRG> Then a turbocharger isn't what I'm after
[15:48:53] <SolarNRG> It can't handle the pressure
[15:49:01] <archivist> some research required!
[15:49:01] <SolarNRG> And there's probably no way of modifying it to either
[15:49:03] <alex4nder> it's not the turbo that's the problem, it's the shaft seals.
[15:49:10] <alex4nder> and the center housing.
[15:49:10] <SolarNRG> Weld them shut?
[15:49:13] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: you have a lach in the fundamentally understanding of mechanics i would like to point out here
[15:49:16] <Loetmichel> lack
[15:49:32] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: you have to seal the shaft, but have it still be able to rotate.
[15:49:43] <SolarNRG> Hey, I'm a bicycle man, I don't know too much about cars, I'm green and hippyfied
[15:49:45] <alex4nder> turbos bearings are oil lubricated
[15:49:57] <alex4nder> and packed into a center section
[15:49:59] <SolarNRG> I need magnetic bearings, no friction
[15:50:07] <Loetmichel> alex4nder: just increase oil pressire and live with sme oil loss ;-)
[15:50:11] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: haha
[15:50:16] <alex4nder> no pressure drop
[15:50:19] <archivist> seals have friction
[15:50:37] <SolarNRG> I need one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIlrfkKW4_8&feature=watch_response_rev
[15:50:38] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: I'd love to see the pump setup driving 0W oil at 500 PSI. ;)
[15:51:10] <SolarNRG> You need a labyrinth seal for that
[15:51:24] <SolarNRG> And at that pressure you'll need about 20 layers
[15:51:55] <SolarNRG> A seal that does this _|^^|__|^^|__|^^|__|^^|__|^^|_
[15:52:17] <alex4nder> and a wallet that does $$$$$$
[15:52:27] <SolarNRG> :D
[15:52:33] <SolarNRG> I wish
[15:53:15] <Loetmichel> alex4nder: as i am to lazy to google: what was 500 psi in bar ?
[15:53:41] <Mjolinor> 30 ish
[15:53:54] <archivist> plenty
[15:53:55] <Loetmichel> hmm, tahts more or less easy to do
[15:53:56] <Mjolinor> he guessed :)
[15:54:26] <Loetmichel> 500 pounds per square inch = 34.4737865 bar
[15:54:29] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: it's not hard, I just want to see the rig,.. because those center sections are used to way less than 100 PSI
[15:54:32] <Loetmichel> says google
[15:54:46] <alex4nder> into a standard turbo center section, it would be pissing oil until the steam got up to pressure.
[15:55:00] <Loetmichel> it will spill oil like crazy, thats for sure
[15:55:01] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[15:55:08] <SolarNRG> I think a labyrinth seal is something that's so precise it could only be done on a CNC. I think if you tried to do it by hand it would be off centre
[15:56:13] <alex4nder> anyone see an issue mounting a benchtop mill into a concrete basin, and having a lexan "lid" that covers it?
[15:56:21] <alex4nder> the basin would have a drain for coolant/chips into a filter
[15:56:31] <alex4nder> I'm trying to give my Taig a permanent home
[15:56:44] <Loetmichel> with CONCRETE?
[15:56:58] <alex4nder> yah, like an upscale bathroom sink
[15:57:12] <Loetmichel> hmm, sounds uncomfotrable
[15:57:33] <Loetmichel> or did you meant: the sink with the open side to you?
[15:57:40] <Loetmichel> -t
[15:57:52] <alex4nder> well the lip of the "sink" would only be 8 cm high
[15:57:54] <SolarNRG> Well it'll be fine until moving house day. I cemented my old pillar drill into the corner, stiff as anything but had to say bye bye to it when I got evicted, couldn't get the bugger moved
[15:58:12] <Loetmichel> ah, more like a shower tub?
[15:58:29] <alex4nder> yah
[15:58:36] <alex4nder> but with a taller lip
[15:58:43] <Loetmichel> should work, but why?
[15:59:10] <alex4nder> because I want to run coolant, so I need something "waterproof" .. and the Taig is light weight and top heavy
[15:59:32] <alex4nder> so I was going to have studs coming out of the bottom of the basin, that the taig attached to
[15:59:44] <alex4nder> and just cast it as one piece
[15:59:53] <alex4nder> (like you would a concrete countertop or sink)
[15:59:58] <Loetmichel> better to get some sheet steel (1/8" or less) and then build a rectangular casing with front and top open
[16:00:26] <alex4nder> well I want something heavier than that to mount it to
[16:00:52] <alex4nder> I have a 3 inch block of granite right now that it's attached to, but with how tall the taig is, it still is easy to move around/tip over.
[16:01:03] <Loetmichel> or only a flat bottom with 10cm high walls and then make the "hood" smaller so it sits INSIDE the "tub"
[16:01:15] <Loetmichel> and make tha hood from lexan
[16:01:22] <alex4nder> yah, that's what my hood plan is right now.
[16:01:56] <Loetmichel> really useful: removeable side walls, so you can still mill the occasionally 2 meteres long bar which needs a keyhole ;-)
[16:02:02] <JT-Shop> dang this beer is better today with a bit more c02 pressure
[16:02:19] <SolarNRG> The dude I spoke to at the bike shop says his mill he uses to make signs with runs at 24000 rpm made of tungsten carbide and requires no lubrication, is this right?
[16:02:30] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: the lip of the basin is lower than the table,.. so I should match that requirement.
[16:02:37] <alex4nder> so I could just remove the hood, and go to town
[16:02:47] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: put it in a soda stream bottle and "Booop" it 2 times ;-)
[16:02:57] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: sure
[16:03:03] <alex4nder> if he's just engraving
[16:03:12] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: more or less true
[16:03:16] <SolarNRG> he can cut 3mm sheet stainless with it
[16:03:30] <Loetmichel> the SPINDLE has libricated bearings
[16:03:50] <SolarNRG> wow
[16:03:52] <Loetmichel> but the TC bits dont need cooling/lubrication if milling steel
[16:04:00] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: I have a full kegerator setup with CO2 bottle and regulators and beer taps and all ... I just adjust the regulator for more carbonation
[16:04:08] <Loetmichel> the can be run faster with cooling though
[16:04:23] <SolarNRG> he says he had to do 1/2mm feed rate for stainless
[16:04:26] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: ok, thats even better ;-)
[16:05:53] <Loetmichel> last time i hat a cooler with c02 and 2 kegs in the living room i was in a "flat sharing community" with 4 other guys ;-)
[16:06:24] <Loetmichel> ... and some 150 eur beer bill a month ;-)
[16:08:24] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12650 <- my mill milling aluminium
[16:08:38] <Loetmichel> tc bit 6mm, spindle can do 24kRPM as well
[16:08:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12653
[16:08:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12647
[16:09:03] <JT-Shop> I did cut back from an 8 keg setup to a 4 keg setup as I only brew about once a month anymore
[16:10:29] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: nice
[16:10:34] <Loetmichel> the "whole" machine: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12811
[16:10:39] <alex4nder> raynerd's brushless DC spindle looks pretty sic
[16:10:39] <alex4nder> k
[16:10:42] <alex4nder> I wonder how well that's going to work
[16:11:24] <Loetmichel> alex4nder: something like this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11519
[16:11:25] <Loetmichel> ?
[16:11:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=436 <- other one, inrunner this time ;-)
[16:12:16] <Mjolinor> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/spindle1.jpg
[16:12:17] <Mjolinor> thats mine
[16:12:18] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: exactly
[16:12:30] <Loetmichel> mine runs fine
[16:12:33] <alex4nder> how's runout on those things?
[16:12:47] <Mjolinor> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/spindle2.jpg
[16:12:52] <Mjolinor> better picture
[16:13:00] <Loetmichel> ok, a 0,4mm TC-bit doesent get broken
[16:13:10] <alex4nder> nice
[16:13:12] <Loetmichel> so i assume less then 0,1mm
[16:13:20] <Loetmichel> mire like 0,05
[16:13:28] <SolarNRG> Looks very very nice
[16:13:32] <Mjolinor> with a 0.2mm cutter I get a 0.37 mm flat
[16:13:40] <Mjolinor> so I am pretty pleased with the runout on it
[16:14:00] <Loetmichel> *searching*
[16:14:07] <syyl> what?
[16:14:09] <Loetmichel> somewhrere was a short video...
[16:14:14] <syyl> you mill one pass with a 0,2mm endmill
[16:14:24] <syyl> and get a 0,37mm slot?
[16:14:33] <Mjolinor> yup
[16:14:36] <syyl> uhm
[16:14:40] <alex4nder> that's a lot of runout
[16:14:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/pce/alex_spindel2.MOV <- testrun, sorry for the mov
[16:14:46] <syyl> thats no runout
[16:14:47] <SolarNRG> |
[16:14:51] <syyl> thats like milling with a boringhead...
[16:14:55] <Mjolinor> but they are really cheap bearings and ther eis seom play between the bearing and hte shaft
[16:14:55] <alex4nder> haha
[16:15:04] <alex4nder> oh, ok
[16:15:07] <SolarNRG> Say you wanted to mill an inverted pyramid
[16:15:12] <Mjolinor> now I need to pull it all to bits, buy a better spindle and better bearings adn it shuodl get a lot better
[16:15:25] <alex4nder> Mjolinor: that's cool though, how much power does your motor make with that speed controller?
[16:15:30] <SolarNRG> Do you have to mill off all the top layer first before you can do the next layers?
[16:15:43] <Loetmichel> hmmm, i got bearings from inliner skates
[16:15:47] <syyl> yes, SolarNRG
[16:15:48] <alex4nder> SolarNRG: you need to watch some youtube videos
[16:15:49] <Loetmichel> "abec5"
[16:15:52] <Mjolinor> Ihave a current limiter in the motor supply
[16:15:55] <Loetmichel> so littze tolerances
[16:16:00] <syyl> beaming a endmill below the surface is problematic
[16:16:10] <SolarNRG> And how do most CNC software "know" how to do this so it doesn't accidentally try to mill laterally some place too deep?
[16:16:14] <Mjolinor> becasue hte motors and speed controllers are made to run form fairly small batteries generally so I stuck soem nichrome wire in series
[16:16:15] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: hah, I'm running "abec9" as my screw bearings. ;)
[16:16:25] <syyl> the cnc software doesnt know anything
[16:16:29] <Mjolinor> so the max current is limited at the moment until I prove it isnt going to burst into flames
[16:16:37] <Loetmichel> alex4nder: was laying around
[16:16:37] <syyl> it works the gcode down line by line
[16:16:44] <syyl> what you mean is the cam software
[16:16:49] <SolarNRG> YEah
[16:16:53] <SolarNRG> Something like kacam
[16:16:53] <syyl> that generates the gcode from a drawing/3d model
[16:16:56] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: yah, I had to find some on Sunday when everything was closed.. the only open shop was the skate shop.
[16:17:04] <Loetmichel> harhar
[16:17:12] <Mjolinor> I havent really tested it overmuch, it can cut at 45mm feed rate with a3mm cutter into pine with a 1/4 inch cut without slowing the spindle
[16:17:14] <syyl> it just knows it ;)
[16:17:25] <syyl> how it works, is way beyond my head
[16:17:31] <alex4nder> hah
[16:18:36] <alex4nder> I'd like to do something like that on my Taig at some point.
[16:18:46] <alex4nder> but I think a lathe would need to be purchased to do it right.
[16:20:50] <Loetmichel> alex4nder at the moment i am bnuilding a brushed spindle for some friends at a "hackerspace"
[16:21:11] <Loetmichel> ( a place whre some ppl meet to work on elektronics and stuff)
[16:21:12] <SolarNRG> IF I bought an X3 and a tungsten carbide bit, would I need lubrication? Does the spindle on this machine have lubricated bearings?
[16:21:38] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
[16:21:43] <Loetmichel> ath the moment i am this far ;-)
[16:21:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12849
[16:21:52] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: you ever seen anyone use an encoder, to be able to do rigid tapping, etc?
[16:21:55] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12852
[16:22:19] <Loetmichel> alex4nder: would be near to impossible with this spindles
[16:22:33] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: because of encoder placement?
[16:22:38] <alex4nder> or the controller?
[16:22:45] <syyl> because of torque
[16:22:54] <Loetmichel> you would need a geared down model because tapping requires LOTS of torqe bit very lees rpm
[16:22:56] <Loetmichel> less
[16:23:03] <alex4nder> ah
[16:23:14] <alex4nder> I hadn't considered that.
[16:25:14] <alex4nder> huh, not much luck pulling up dyno plots of torque for these things.
[16:37:48] <mrsun> do thread milling insted of tapping ?
[16:38:09] <mrsun> tho hard to do low dimensions threads but shouldnt require much torque =)
[16:39:46] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ZVoHei1uE
[16:42:13] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OlfyvRU67o thats quite nice =)
[16:43:08] <syyl> jip
[16:43:19] <syyl> hehe
[16:43:25] <syyl> coming together with my chinese lathe..
[16:43:58] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMG_0156.jpg
[16:44:01] <syyl> spindle head
[16:44:11] <syyl> and a cardrige with new bearing seats...
[16:44:33] <syyl> bored the spindle head out and glued the cardrige in
[16:45:02] <syyl> the original bearing seats where a bit off...
[16:48:43] <syyl> where you touch that thing
[16:48:46] <syyl> you find problems...
[16:49:02] <syyl> the crossslide was warped...had to scrape it..
[16:49:07] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMG_0176.jpg
[16:50:30] <alex4nder> that must have been fun
[16:51:57] <SolarNRG> What's the difference between a mill and a pillar drill? Is it just the windy x and y axis things?
[16:55:14] <syyl> pure fun, alex4nder
[16:55:15] <syyl> :D
[16:55:21] <syyl> but it doesnt end there
[16:55:40] <alex4nder> how far you from actually milling? :D
[16:56:00] <JT-Shop> about 15'
[17:35:41] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[19:03:07] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[19:03:16] <ssi> goodnight gracie
[19:09:58] <mirage335> pcb2gcode gives me "No drill file specified." What exactly am I supposed to do about that, when all I have is gbr files?
[19:10:28] <Tom_itx> there's no drill file with them?
[19:10:30] <Tom_itx> should be
[19:11:07] <mirage335> No, not to my knowledge.
[19:11:17] <mirage335> I have the *front.gbr file though.
[19:11:38] <alex4nder> how would you do a PCB without a drill file, unless it's single sided, and all SMT?
[19:11:58] <mirage335> It is single sided, and all SMT. :|
[19:12:01] <Tom_itx> with no vias :)
[19:12:02] <djdelorie> do you have a *.cnc file ?
[19:12:11] <djdelorie> ah, you wouldn't then ;-)
[19:12:25] <mirage335> Ahh, yes. I do have a *.cnc file.
[19:12:30] <mirage335> Looks like it has the vias.
[19:12:36] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: not a lot of vias on single sided boards. ;)
[19:12:54] <Tom_itx> mmm true but there could be jumpers
[19:13:29] <alex4nder> non-SMT jumpers on an all-SMT board? ;D
[19:13:33] <mirage335> I have only 3 vias, each to resolve ground plane islanding.
[19:13:36] <alex4nder> werd.
[19:13:38] <mirage335> This is a high-performance RF board.
[19:13:40] <alex4nder> well then you need a drill file.
[19:13:47] <mirage335> Yeah, I see it now.
[19:14:13] <mirage335> Now, why do the PNGs show the traces rather than the outlines of those traces (which I would expect to cut)?
[19:18:32] <mirage335> pcb2gcode --mill-speed 1000 --drill-speed 1000 --mill-feed 5 --drill-feed 1 --cutter-diameter 0.001 --outline-width 0.001 --offset 0.002 --zwork -0.01 --zdrill 0.1 --zchange 0.5 --zcut 0.2 --cut-feed 1 --cut-speed 1000 --cut-infeed 0.5 --zsafe 0.5 --front ./Schematic.front.gbr --drill Schematic.plated-drill.cnc
[19:35:36] <skunkKandT> hmm - just made 4 scrap parts perfectly mirrored from what I wanted...
[19:35:48] <skunkKandT> that sucks
[19:37:55] <skunkKandT> hmmm maybe I can salvage them...
[19:39:05] <skunkKandT> huh - I think I can
[19:39:49] <skunkKandT> if anyone asks.. the pipe plug is very important to the part.
[19:48:12] <kb8wmc> repstrap?
[20:04:57] <Jymmm> I need to heat bend and create a CLEAN 1/4" crease in .030" plastic sheet that's 24" long. Any thoughts?
[20:06:42] <frysteev_> heat
[20:08:57] <frysteev_> Jymmm: whats it for?
[20:08:59] <kb8wmc> Jymmm: a calrod of appropriate length which might be inserted into cu tubing
[20:09:24] <Jymmm> kb8wmc: this is sheet material, not tubing
[20:10:17] <skunkKandT> he is talking about inserting a calrad element into a copper tube the right diameter to bend your sheet
[20:10:25] <skunkKandT> around
[20:10:30] <kb8wmc> yes, I thought it is, but to bend it with what I understood to be a radius of 1/4" you would need the tubing
[20:10:31] <Jymmm> calrod?
[20:10:42] <skunkKandT> calrad
[20:10:43] <kb8wmc> it is a heating element
[20:10:55] <skunkKandT> or is it calrod?
[20:11:02] <Jymmm> I need to fold over a 1/4" ----==
[20:11:07] <kb8wmc> similar to electric water heating type
[20:11:53] <skunkKandT> or you could just get a steel rod the right diameter and heat it the 'right amount' with a torch... might take a few trys
[20:12:25] <Jymmm> The heat isn't the issue, it's bending it over CLEANLY
[20:12:29] <frysteev_> just put a clip lead on each end of the steel and run some current through it
[20:12:31] <kb8wmc> or if you can find the proper material to pack within a tube, you could make your own heating element
[20:14:04] <kb8wmc> you may need to have two parallel guides spaced appropriately to help in making a "clean" straight bend
[20:14:58] <Jymmm> Right, but once bent over need to be flattened, I dont have a pair of pliers 24" long =)
[20:16:02] <frysteev_> you have a sheet metal bender?
[20:16:10] <kb8wmc> sort of like a double-leaf bending brake, heating device centered above plastic, then bend one of the leaves to desired degrees
[20:16:27] <kb8wmc> I have two small ones
[20:16:45] <kb8wmc> 28" is the longest, the other is 24"
[20:17:28] <kb8wmc> oh, sorry, question was for Jymmm
[20:18:28] <kb8wmc> I should keep up with my reading
[20:18:30] <Jymmm> frysteev_: No, but that actually sounds like the perfect tool for this job. One of those little bench top ones.
[20:19:38] <frysteev_> ya
[20:19:42] <kb8wmc> yes, my little one would do the job well I believe....
[21:08:06] <Jymmm> frysteev_: kb8wmc Interesting... http://www.harborfreight.com/18-inch-sheet-metal-folding-tool-96523.html
[21:20:39] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: hey are you here?
[21:57:49] <elmo40> ok, this is just amazing.
[21:58:10] <elmo40> machining pr0n ;) http://youtu.be/4NNlIAmk4xk
[22:02:05] <ssi> shit that thing's fast
[22:03:48] <elmo40> those robodrill machines are amazing
[22:07:50] <elmo40> nothing like my machine! http://youtu.be/_QN7pyrm-NM
[22:14:05] <elmo40> id love to have my 4th axis spin (and be accurate) like this! http://youtu.be/t9pjYe3E64w
[22:20:09] <ssi> that's a cool machine
[22:20:50] <ssi> they're both cool machines :D
[22:21:14] <ssi> I like the autoworkholding
[22:21:28] <ssi> and holy fast trunnion batman
[22:23:09] <ssi> I'd be terrified spinning something as heavy as a cylinder head that fast on that table
[22:23:15] <ssi> better have faith in your workholding :D
[22:27:15] <elmo40> if you notice, the spinning is right in the centre of gravity.
[22:27:21] <ssi> yea I know
[22:27:24] <ssi> but still... scurry :)
[22:27:29] <elmo40> so its like spinning nothing ;)
[22:27:39] <ssi> it's not quite nothing
[22:27:45] <ssi> it's just a whole lot of well balanced something
[22:27:48] <ssi> and a really powerful motor
[22:28:03] <elmo40> its not overly large
[22:28:16] <elmo40> the 4-th motor
[22:28:26] <elmo40> but I think it is direct drive
[22:28:30] <ssi> yeah
[22:28:58] <elmo40> I have yet to see one in a trade show
[23:39:36] <Valen> do you think they are spinning more than they need to in that vid? ;->
[23:39:41] <ssi> a bit :)
[23:39:57] <Valen> i'm guessing the drive is the black one, whats in the yellow one?
[23:40:04] <ssi> giant encoder?
[23:40:06] <ssi> :P
[23:40:14] <Valen> why on that side though?
[23:40:24] <Valen> I have seen encoders that size, but they were on a telescope
[23:40:30] <ssi> I wonder if it's a brake
[23:40:36] <Valen> that'd be it
[23:40:36] <ssi> braking tailstock that is
[23:41:06] <Valen> oh the extra flips would be for "swarf removal" honest ;->
[23:41:13] <ssi> heheheh