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[00:34:50] <ssi> woooo
[00:34:55] <ssi> got my first valid signal wired up :)
[01:32:44] <alex4nder> hey
[03:04:37] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:07:00] <alex4nder> yoh
[04:13:37] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[04:14:26] <Loetmichel> hrhr, my co-worker called me a "blacksmith" for using M8 * 65mm screws. normally our screw storage ends at M5...
[04:15:35] <Loetmichel> i told her that i had worked with 10kg hammers and 32mm wrenches. THAT is heavy metalworking, nbot the 8mm screwa ;-)
[04:32:18] <Valen> we use 32mm wrench all the time
[04:32:24] <Valen> for our teensy spindle ;->
[04:32:54] <Valen> now these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SydneyHarbourBridgeNutMilsonsPoint.JPG are some nuts ;->
[04:33:15] <Valen> they stop this from floating away
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sydney_Harbour_Bridge_from_Circular_Quay.jpg
[05:06:55] <archivist> a slight problem with nuts up in scotland
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7648230.stm
[05:39:26] <Loetmichel> Valen: our company produces Computers for military/services. we have screwa down to 1.2mm but only up to 5mm ;-)
[05:39:31] <Loetmichel> screws
[09:13:44] <skunkworks> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=53295&highlight=linuxcnc
[09:38:38] <mozmck> skunkworks: the quote in the last post is laughable.
[09:39:35] <mozmck> how many distributions does windows have? How many kernel versions? The guy's bias is pretty obvious.
[09:44:56] <Jymmm> Windows BOB FTW!!!
[09:45:42] <cradek> There is a [unnamed] guy who makes [product that doesn't work with linuxcnc]. He says linuxcnc sucks!!1!
[09:45:56] <cradek> I can't believe I scanned that whole thread for that punchline
[09:46:17] <mozmck> :)
[09:47:07] <skunkworks> heh
[09:47:18] <skunkworks> sorry - just random morning reading
[09:47:24] <Jymmm> blame skunkworks who coulda just linked to that posting directly
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=752148&postcount=37
[09:47:42] * Jymmm gives skunkworks a wedgy!
[09:47:44] <skunkworks> Then you would have missed my posts...
[09:47:54] <Jymmm> skunkworks: EXACTLY
[09:48:07] <skunkworks> you guyzzzz
[09:48:39] <cradek> 10 years ago linux WAS by geeks for geeks. today, people who what "everyone" to be able to use it are crapping it all up
[09:48:52] <cradek> who want
[09:48:59] <cradek> gack, can't type
[09:49:21] <mozmck> Yeah, some folks think that unless it looks and acts like a "smart"phone nobody can use it.
[09:49:33] <Jymmm> I blame ubuntu with all their dependancies for that.
[09:52:12] <mozmck> I do like the search feature in the "dash" in unity, but not the lack of a real menu. Mint put a menu back and added a search box to it, which is nice.
[09:53:38] <alex4nder> morning
[09:54:23] <Jymmm> cradek: PS doesn't have "block style" commenting does it? I couldn't find anything in the manuals.
[09:54:44] <cradek> not that I know of
[09:54:57] <Jymmm> cradek: Ok, thanks.
[10:01:36] <Jymmm> cradek: Is '/rx { cos mul } def' == 'cos(r) * x' ?
[10:02:00] <Jymmm> This RPN confuses me sometimes =)
[10:02:19] <cradek> yes it's calculating r cos theta
[10:02:47] <cradek> put r theta on the stack and call rx to get the x rectangular coordinate
[10:03:31] <Jymmm> cradek: Realize that I have no clue on the maths, just breaking down parts of it and then googling =)
[10:04:07] <cradek> it would have been nice to write r theta -> x y, but I was too tired
[10:04:34] <Jymmm> cradek: hey, this works for me =)
[10:05:33] <Jymmm> I'm still dombfounded that something so simple is so complex. It's a fricken lampshade?! lol
[10:06:16] <cradek> yeah, the math isn't straightforward
[10:08:14] <alex4nder> deconstructed cones?
[10:08:32] <cradek> yes
[10:08:59] <cradek> you can sure use right triangles to figure them out, but it doesn't come out very cleanly
[10:09:05] <alex4nder> haha
[10:09:07] <Jymmm> cradek: And of course I have to make it more complex by attempting to make 'D' not at one end of 'h', but part way in the middle (still trapizodial in shape)
http://img3.etsystatic.com/il_fullxfull.302444839.jpg
[10:09:42] <Jymmm> Yet still have 'h' the full height of the frame or a bit longer.
[10:10:19] <Jymmm> ignore the "hourglass'ish" figure of that frame.
[10:10:21] <cradek> you're trying to make a shape that bends to fit over that? That's not possible without folding or cutting.
[10:10:33] <Jymmm> cradek: no no no no.
[10:11:01] <pcw> Who needs trig? Pythagoras FTW
[10:11:17] <Jymmm> cradek: Still striaght lines, but the WIDEST part being half way up the height of the frame, instead of 'D' being at the bottom of it.
[10:11:28] <alex4nder> that's easy though
[10:11:38] <alex4nder> create the cone, and deconstruct it
[10:11:46] <alex4nder> you have constant slope
[10:12:15] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Great, now make a vector drawing of that theory of yours =)
[10:13:42] <alex4nder> Jymmm: haha,.. IRC consulting gets expensive. ;)
[10:14:18] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Oh, well in that case, let me insert m credit card here --> [ ]
[10:14:32] <alex4nder> haha
[10:15:09] <Jymmm> alex4nder: cradek was very kind enough to write a PS that does it already.
[10:15:38] <Jymmm> alex4nder: But, I'm clueless, and tyring to learn PS and the math all at the same time now.
[10:15:53] <Jymmm> 1 + 1 == 3, right?
[10:16:21] <cradek> close... 1 + 1 < 3
[10:16:49] <djdelorie> 1+3=3 for very large values of "1"
[10:16:50] <cradek> or 1 + 1 ~= 3
[10:17:12] <Jymmm> Ah, I guess I'll hae to get new batteries for my solar powered abacus then.
[10:27:29] <pcw> naive question: do any CAM programs generate NURBs and
[10:27:31] <pcw> would NURBS be away around the one block lookahead limitation for high speed profiling?
[10:28:43] <pcw> s/away/a way/
[10:34:32] <ssi> pcw: rhino3d claims to be nurbs modeling, and they have rhinocam plugin for it, but I don't really know if that answers your question
[10:37:41] <pcw> That may just be for input
[10:37:58] <ssi> yes, that may be true
[10:38:24] <ssi> does linuxcnc even support NURBS blocks?
[10:38:48] <ssi> well look at that, it does
[10:38:51] <ssi> neat-o
[10:38:55] <pcw> its has NURBS gcode (G5.2 G5.3)
[10:39:45] <pcw> not sure what limitations it has (number of control points block etc)
[10:39:57] <ssi> so I got the very first working signal hooked up on my HNC last night :D
[10:40:13] <jthornton> Sweet!
[10:40:32] <ssi> GPIO pin attached to the machine.is-on signal, connected to CR2, the SSR that drives the mechanical relay that puts line power on all the other SSRs
[10:40:46] <ssi> it's not much, but it's a start :)
[10:41:05] <pcw> Well thats a start! I will look into the resolver issues today on my test machine
[10:41:15] <ssi> thanks :)
[10:41:40] <ssi> I wish I had a way to identify for sure what the transformation ratio of the resolvers is
[10:42:20] <pcw> well maxoutput/input
[10:42:39] <ssi> it seems to be around 1:3
[10:43:07] <pcw> or (sin^2+coss^2)/input
[10:43:15] <ssi> and btw I did manage to scope each drive pin referenced to local ground and sum them
[10:43:18] <ssi> and the driver is fine :)
[10:43:21] <pcw> sqrt
[10:44:36] <pcw> OK ive never broken one despite being careless with our scratch monkey (plugging and unplugging resolver cables hot)
[10:46:12] <ssi> pcw:
https://p.twimg.com/AoXC1HMCEAAtiut.jpg:large
[10:48:20] <pcw> The fact that you cannot change the excitation frequency means
[10:48:22] <pcw> either a bitfile error or a version error in LinuxCNC resolver.c
[10:48:24] <pcw> I'll get to the bottom of this today
[10:49:17] <ssi> I may try to hand-match some dividers
[10:49:33] <ssi> how stiff do they need to be?
[10:50:58] <pcw> you can just reduce the drive to make it work (once the other errors are sorted out)
[10:51:00] <pcw> but its better for noise immunity to have as much signal as you can get
[10:51:02] <pcw> so desensitizing the sine/cos inputs is the best way I will see about
[10:51:04] <pcw> making a H version of the 7I49 for high output resolvers
[10:53:04] <ssi> oje
[10:53:07] <ssi> oke even :)
[10:53:46] <pcw> the sine cos inputs are 100K input impedance so a low part of the divider being 2-10K is probably OK
[10:53:48] <cradek> pcw: [other product] has three output amplitude jumpers that give you 7 settings in the obvious way
[10:54:16] <cradek> takes a lot of real estate I bet, but it's a good scheme
[10:55:01] <pcw> I can set the output amplitude in software but its better noise wise to have as much signall as you can get
[10:55:23] <cradek> ah I see what you mean
[10:56:05] <pcw> that may be why the resolvers have such a high step up ratio (pulse noise from drives)
[10:58:07] <pcw> I will add AGC to the resolver firmware eventually but I'd like to get in the ballpark first
[10:59:55] <pcw> I already calculate the signal magnitude (radius) but just for a resolver OK flag
[11:00:02] <frysteev_> wooo resolver fun
[11:28:41] <mazafaka> ssi: Because we're grown-ups now, and it's our turn to decide what that means (
http://xkcd.com/150/)
[11:42:06] <mazafaka> and romantic:
http://xkcd.com/162/
[12:08:47] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynsxPLl9OPU
[12:10:00] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-v0k08m-g
[12:10:57] <cradek> assuming those are supposed to be straight lines, that doesn't look right at all...
[12:11:16] <skunkworks> I was hoping he would show the preview...
[12:11:38] <skunkworks> But yes - I bet the constants are not right
[12:32:49] <ssi> mazafaka: as much of an xkcd fan as I am, I'm confused as to why you're quoting it at me ;)
[12:34:38] <mazafaka> just funny, these words are nice to explain something
[12:55:06] <tom3p> i made a VM out of a dapper emc2 with APT360/vapt/postp, it runs, but the generic xorg.conf has no OpenGL.
[12:55:25] <tom3p> i get emc to start but stops w/o GL. how to add OGL ?
[13:10:46] <ssi> So I guess I want to get into customizing the UI
[13:10:55] <ssi> I would like to add a collet open/close button and indicator
[13:11:02] <ssi> anyone have any tips on how to get started on that?
[13:11:23] <cpresser> ssi: take a look at the pyvcp-examples
[13:11:48] <jthornton> ssi: single button for open/close?
[13:11:59] <ssi> jthornton: not sure!
[13:12:32] <jthornton> I have two physical buttons on mine, one for open and one for close
[13:13:22] <cpresser> a checkbox might work. but this depends on you hardware and hal-wiring
[13:13:28] <jthornton> IIRC the valve is a detent one with two coils
[13:13:39] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the globe B)
[13:13:39] <jthornton> you could have two pyvcp push buttons
[13:14:29] <jthornton> ssi: there are some examples on the forum too in the hal examples section for single button toggle
[13:14:42] * jthornton hangs up the phone now :/
[13:24:12] <ssi> onoes
[13:24:54] <frysteev_> ssi: what did you do now?
[13:25:21] <ssi> I got boss'd and then jt runnoft
[13:26:41] <IchGuckLive> ssi pyvcp push buttons
[13:26:58] <ssi> yea I need to look into it
[13:27:02] <ssi> I haven't messed with pyvcp at all
[13:27:28] <IchGuckLive> what is the goal to reatch
[13:27:44] <tom3p> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?One_Button_Toggle
[13:28:21] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?PyVCP
[13:32:17] <tom3p> never ever ever ever try to get a channel list with xchat, always hangs, window goes white. dangit forgot AGAIN
[13:33:32] <IchGuckLive> tom3p: O.O
[13:42:08] <cpresser> if you want to have a 'more complex' logical function you can try to write your own python userspace component (at least for non-realtime-stuff like coolant, collets, ...)
[13:45:44] <ssi> looks simple enough
[13:46:03] <IchGuckLive> ssi: it is as you are more into it
[13:47:02] <djdelorie> tom3p: my xchat has no problem downloading a channel list
[13:47:36] <tom3p> djdelorie, thx i been trying to debug this
[13:48:26] * djdelorie is running xchat 2.8.8 on Fedora 14
[13:54:55] * frysteev_ is running on very little sleep
[13:57:24] <ssi> me too!
[13:57:51] <Loetmichel> frysteev_: to less time or to much children?
[13:57:54] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:58:14] <frysteev_> my only childer run on gcode
[14:00:34] <Loetmichel> so to less time it is
[14:00:41] <Loetmichel> work related?
[14:00:58] <frysteev_> to many side jobs to pay the bills
[14:02:42] <Loetmichel> ouch
[14:02:57] <Loetmichel> AM i happy that my wife pays 90% of the bills
[14:03:17] <jdhnc> nice
[14:03:18] <Loetmichel> so my salary is nearly complete free for my hobby
[14:03:23] <frysteev_> SUGGA MOMMA
[14:03:40] <jdhnc> I need one of those... My wife is a public school teacher.
[14:05:09] <Loetmichel> my wife too.... but worked in her universitiy time as a telesales. and got a call from a headhunter one day after graduation... now she is a "upper management" at SAP ;-)
[14:05:28] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: so you are the star on dadys day with a little fast running cnc router in the classroom
[14:05:32] <frysteev_> "upper management" meaning shes on top?
[14:05:53] <Loetmichel> correction: she says: only middle mamagement, 5 reporting steps up to the CEO ;-)
[14:06:39] <jdhnc> she has two more degrees than I do ban makes less than half as much
[14:06:53] <jdhnc> s/ban/and/
[14:07:59] <ssi> jdhnc: nobody ever said public school would earn them big bucks :P
[14:08:04] <IchGuckLive> is there in the usa also childrens working days over the year where they meet real stuff of manufacturiing
[14:08:42] <Loetmichel> jdhnc: opposite here.. i earn 2800 eur a month... 1452eur after taxes... she has about triple ;-)
[14:08:46] <IchGuckLive> 7,8,9 grades
[14:09:09] <ssi> 50% taxes
[14:09:13] <ssi> and you still get to pay VAT
[14:09:16] <ssi> spectacular
[14:09:21] <Loetmichel> ssi; nearly
[14:09:31] <jdhnc> geez
[14:09:53] <IchGuckLive> ssi 19% in Germany VAT and 7 on fod
[14:09:59] <Loetmichel> taxes, unemplyment assurance ant all the other state fees
[14:10:00] <jdhnc> hmm... my wife makes more than 2800eu, maybe it's not so bad :)
[14:10:58] <Loetmichel> jdhnc: i am just head of production in a small military computer company
[14:11:03] * ssi hugs the US
[14:11:36] <Loetmichel> ssi: but its so much because in germany, if you are married, you can split the tax class
[14:12:02] <ssi> not sure what that means exactly, but ok :)
[14:12:04] <Loetmichel> both can have class4, so both gets roughly the same taxing as non-married
[14:12:56] <Loetmichel> or one can have five, the other three. then the one with five gets a hight tax rate and the other with three a lower than unmarried
[14:13:10] <IchGuckLive> TAX is good this runs the country
[14:13:13] <ssi> I see... maybe
[14:13:32] <Loetmichel> so i have class 5
[14:13:34] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:13:40] <ssi> Loetmichel: OH I see
[14:13:46] <ssi> so your wife gets taxed at the low rate, but she makes the money
[14:13:52] <ssi> that's bizarre, but interesting
[14:13:52] <Loetmichel> exactly
[14:14:41] <ssi> tax loopholes are an international language ;)
[14:15:35] <Loetmichel> its not THAT much oif a difference, but about 1k to 5k a jear may be in. (in our case, compared to 4/4)
[14:16:07] <IchGuckLive> ssi there are also lots of returns on the years taxreturn
[14:16:35] <ssi> yeah, good old interest free loans to the government
[14:16:38] <ssi> everyone's favorite pastime
[14:17:17] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: only if you have enough bills to "write off" to the IRS
[14:17:32] <IchGuckLive> agree
[14:18:38] <Loetmichel> most years we have to pay a little tax rather than getting returns, cause of the class3/5
[14:19:06] <Loetmichel> but so we are not loaning the government money interest free ;-)
[14:21:32] <ssi> k taxes are depressing
[14:21:38] <ssi> let's talk about something else :D
[14:21:54] <djdelorie> you could talk about cnc.. ;-)
[14:21:59] <ssi> yeah, that :D
[14:22:03] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: homeoffice400/M,Grandmaschildrenscare 200/M,Grandpas sozialcare100/M and all money handreturns O.O
[14:22:10] <ssi> I'm about to start messing with pyvcp
[14:22:48] <IchGuckLive> bills as you selfproduce with a simple payment devels circle ;-)
[14:23:26] <IchGuckLive> actualy cost §eurs bank fee per month
[14:23:42] <IchGuckLive> and a big xmas present B)
[14:24:03] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: at the moment i am contemplating if i should mill the lower (copper) power rail again, with the pads rotatet by 10 degrees... on this two rings will flow about 150A peak... ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12940
[14:24:09] <IchGuckLive> im off by resttime GN8
[14:25:12] <ssi> Loetmichel: what are you working on?
[14:25:20] <ssi> looks like a multirotor copter
[14:25:35] <Loetmichel> it is
[14:25:41] <ssi> hehe nice
[14:25:44] <ssi> I built a couple before
[14:25:50] <ssi> but I had problems with them
[14:25:53] <djdelorie> I read an article about making electric motors for in-hub car motors, that used pie-shaped copper plates as the "electromagnets". One "turn", lots of amps.
[14:25:59] <Loetmichel> friend earthed his Octocopter. from above 100 meters
[14:25:59] <ssi> motors and props were too big; too much rotor inertia
[14:26:40] <Loetmichel> had send me the crashed parts, and i managed to salvage 6 motors and ESCs and the Flightcontrolboard.
[14:26:52] <Loetmichel> so i build him a new hexa with the salvaged parts
[14:27:06] * djdelorie is still working towards "first run" on his cnc table.
[14:27:07] <ssi> I want to use the IMU that I was using for my quadcopter and build an autopilot for a collective pitch gas heli
[14:27:21] <ssi> I was thinking about mounting a camera on it and doing auto aerial photography
[14:27:29] <djdelorie> a bad solder joint on a current sense resistor fried part of the current feedback sensing circuitry
[14:27:49] <Loetmichel> IMU?
[14:27:54] <ssi> inertial measurement unit
[14:28:01] <ssi> I have a sparkfun 9 axis IMU
[14:28:02] <Loetmichel> ah
[14:28:06] <ssi> gyro/accel/magnetometer
[14:28:08] <Loetmichel> the "flight control"
[14:28:10] <ssi> yea
[14:28:20] <ssi> well it's not a complete flight control in itself
[14:28:23] <ssi> it's just the measurement
[14:28:30] <ssi> the other thing I want to do is build a complete AHARS
[14:28:45] <ssi> or ADAHRS rather
[14:28:51] * Loetmichel has only parts from www.mikrokopter.de
[14:29:14] <ssi> I'd like to get into designing my own avionics
[14:29:17] <ssi> for fullscale planes
[14:29:31] <mhaberler> djdelorie: are you the one of djgpp fame?
[14:29:43] <Loetmichel> btw: momantary work done on hte big hexa:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11789
[14:29:45] <djdelorie> that's me
[14:29:54] <mhaberler> whoa.. hats off!
[14:30:01] <djdelorie> :-)
[14:30:06] <Loetmichel> harhar
[14:30:08] <ssi> looks good :)
[14:30:08] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:30:20] <ssi> what does that read, 762g?
[14:30:41] <ssi> what's the motor power you're using?+
[14:30:42] <Loetmichel> the world is a village like we say in germany ;-)
[14:30:45] <mhaberler> just curious - what you'd be using linuxcnc for?
[14:30:53] <Loetmichel> ssi: yes, it does
[14:31:14] <Loetmichel> will be aabout 1200 grams TOW
[14:31:18] <Loetmichel> without payload
[14:32:56] <Loetmichel> and about 2.0 kW motor power... cvombined thust somewhrere in the range of 5600 grams ;-)
[14:33:33] <ssi> ~330W each motor?
[14:33:42] <mhaberler> djdelorie: you're entitled to a free bugfix or two by an old user (especially if I created the bugs in the first place, which is a great opportunity to excel ;)
[14:33:42] <ssi> the first one I built had 4x 600W motors, and those were WAY too big
[14:33:53] <ssi> the second one had 4x 180W, and still didn't work well
[14:34:01] <ssi> although I was using heavy rigid airplane propellors for rotors
[14:34:07] <ssi> and I think they just had too much inertia
[14:34:12] <ssi> never could tune the PID loops stable
[14:34:18] <Loetmichel> ssi correct
[14:34:26] <Loetmichel> 350W
[14:34:26] <Fox_Muldr> when i want to change from linuxcnc 2.4.x to 2.5 development i just have to change the repository in ubuuntu right?
[14:34:49] <ssi> Loetmichel: here's the first one:
[14:34:51] <ssi> Loetmichel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV5HZIDCn58
[14:35:20] <ssi> damn thing was terrifying
[14:35:27] <Loetmichel> harhar
[14:35:47] <ssi> it's probably on the order of 600mm across
[14:36:13] <ssi> the second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eROXtMq4Q4
[14:36:16] <ssi> obviously not finished
[14:36:41] <Loetmichel> my own actual quad: (onboard:)
http://www.cyrom.org/MC/liwi230510.avi
[14:37:58] <Loetmichel> outside:
http://www.cyrom.org/MC/050709/testfllug_vado2.avi
[14:38:16] <Loetmichel> (same onboard)
[14:38:20] <ssi> I'm not getting any video on those; just sound :?
[14:38:55] <Loetmichel> hmmm, wrong codec?
[14:39:14] <Loetmichel> sorry, havent them on youtube or something
[14:41:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12171 <- last meeting of Kopterfreaks in germany. mine is the one in front wint the lilac front "girder" style outrigger
[14:41:53] <ssi> got it
[14:42:08] <ssi> haha I like the one next to it with the huge tall gear
[14:42:54] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12691 <. had milled more than i have flown anyway on that meeting
[14:43:07] <Loetmichel> (much crashes and broken parts to fix ;-)
[14:44:19] <Loetmichel> i have a gear in a similar height for mine. too, its necessary if you have a camera on a servo underneath ;-)
[14:46:11] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8259
[14:46:56] <Loetmichel> so, now i have to go to bed, wife is calling ;-)
[14:47:47] <jdhnc> guess we know who's in charge there!
[14:48:04] <Loetmichel> jdhnc: not narried?
[14:48:20] <Loetmichel> ' cause you sate the obvious ;-)
[14:48:22] <Loetmichel> stat
[14:48:23] <Loetmichel> e
[14:48:59] <jdhnc> 21 years
[14:49:06] <jdhnc> yes, I am aware :)
[14:53:54] * JT-Shop is a bit puzzled by the volts display on my plasma... mechanical setting up for a cut and the volts read out is almost double now after swapping from the 5i20 to the 5i25
[14:54:07] <djdelorie> free volts!
[14:54:09] * JT-Shop wonders what I might have done wrong?
[15:00:37] <mrsun> hmm, where to find the power factor for different materials for milling? :/
[15:00:45] <mrsun> pererably in some metric language
[15:01:13] <ssi> JT-Shop: what are you using to get tip voltage into your 5i?
[15:03:18] <JT-Shop> THC-AD, the only thing I changed AFAIK is the 5i20 for a 5i25/7i76
[15:03:48] <JT-Shop> getting ready to set up to measure the tip voltage at the plasma and work my way out from there
[15:04:25] <ssi> my table is running mach, sadly
[15:04:35] <ssi> I have an LC-THC from candcnc
[15:04:38] <ssi> and a G540
[15:04:38] <JT-Shop> now metric has its own language :?
[15:04:55] <ssi> built that machine before I got onboard the emc train :)
[15:05:14] <JT-Shop> it worked fine for years on the old setup so I can only assume I've don't something stupid
[15:05:30] <JT-Shop> you could always upgrade it
[15:05:35] <ssi> I plan to
[15:05:38] <ssi> but it's not high on the list
[15:05:39] <JT-Shop> for free :)
[15:05:51] <JT-Shop> I know that, any progress on the HNC?
[15:06:10] <ssi> well pcw is hopefully working on fixing the resolver firmware
[15:06:21] <ssi> plus I think we discovered that the hnc resolvers are high-output
[15:06:23] <ssi> maybe 1:3 or 1:4
[15:06:54] <ssi> I wired my first control pin last night, machine.is-on is wired to the main relay that switches power to all the other relays
[15:07:19] <ssi> I want to discuss how the turret works before I get to crazy in rewiring the interface box
[15:07:37] <ssi> the way it's set up now, there's five logic boards in the interface box on the lathe, and I'm pretty sure they handle all the decoding to run the turret
[15:07:47] <ssi> I think I might like to run the turret more directly, but I don't fully understand how it works
[15:10:29] <cradek> so you lift and spin, then when you see the feedback is right, you pop up the stop. then you wait a little bit and lower the turret
[15:10:30] <ssi> I noticed the original control would only ever rotate it CCW
[15:10:32] <cradek> yes, airmotor
[15:10:37] <PCW> ssi: try refetching the rmsvss6_8 bitfile, the old one is brokenated (now I have to find all the pinout files I copy pasted bad into with off by one register addresses)
[15:10:44] <cradek> yes it can only turn one way
[15:11:10] <ssi> cradek: what sort of signals does it take to actuate the pneumatics?
[15:11:40] <cradek> I think the solenoids are low voltage
[15:12:03] <cradek> 12 maybe? you need to check.
[15:12:29] <cradek> oh I forgot. there is a "turret down successfully" prox
[15:12:36] <ssi> PCW: got it, thanks
[15:12:48] <cradek> you must make sure it's fully down before you continue your program for obvious reasons
[15:12:53] <ssi> sure
[15:12:55] * JT-Shop goes to see if I have a pop up stop
[15:13:10] <JT-Shop> ssi: I do the tool change in ladder
[15:13:19] <cradek> JT-Shop: I don't know if it actually pops up, I haven't seen the mechanism
[15:13:21] <ssi> cradek: did you tell me that you're running your proxes off 12v?
[15:13:26] <ssi> JT-Shop: I don't know anything about ladder yet
[15:13:31] <ssi> JT-Shop: but I figured that's how it'd be done
[15:13:35] <cradek> ssi: I dunno for sure
[15:13:43] <cradek> why not try and see if it works
[15:13:49] <ssi> cradek: do you know what sort of signal to expect out of the prox?
[15:13:57] <ssi> sink I'd imagine?
[15:14:00] <jdhnc> most prox switches we use run off 10-30VDC
[15:14:58] <PCW> ssi: good bitfile has md5 csum that starts 550cd
[15:14:58] <PCW> bad bitfile will read some constant velocity but nothing else
[15:15:09] <ssi> PCW: yeah sounds familiar :)
[15:15:14] <ssi> new bitfile is 550cd
[15:15:20] <JT-Shop> cradek: but you fire a solenoid for something when you see the correct tool?
[15:15:22] <ssi> old one started d6eb8
[15:15:41] <PCW> good yep that ones verified bad
[15:15:48] <ssi> cool
[15:15:54] <ssi> maybe I'll have half-ass resolvers by tonight :D
[15:16:09] <ssi> I may try voltage-dividing the drive signals too
[15:16:48] <PCW> we will make a HV in version some time this week
[15:17:01] <ssi> PCW: should I just swap mine out for one of those in that case?
[15:17:07] <ssi> when they're ready
[15:17:22] <JT-Shop> yep there it is CB66 Red Turret Stop
[15:17:35] <PCW> Probably we would patch yours (since its used)
[15:17:39] <ssi> gotcha
[15:17:58] <PCW> but we can send a test one ahead
[15:18:11] <ssi> that'd be great :D
[15:19:21] <PCW> now to grep for baddness in the source files
[15:19:24] <PCW> (and figure out why my EtherHM2 crashes when I ping it with more than 256 -hdrsize bytes)
[15:20:31] <PCW> its an 8 bit processor so its got to be some multi-byte math I botched but I sure cant see it
[15:23:40] <JT-Shop> ssi: I used wsum to decode the turret encoder lines which are 1, 2, 4, and 8
[15:27:10] <ssi> I don't really understand why it's four lines
[15:27:17] <ssi> it's an eight position turret!
[15:27:26] <ssi> three bits should be plenty :)
[15:28:39] <JT-Shop> I think they want to see something other than 0 for a position
[15:29:22] <cradek> it goes to 0 (or something) when it's between positions
[15:29:44] <cradek> just spin it and watch halscope and you'll see
[15:30:10] <JT-Shop> anyway you could cut and paste from my config the things you need
[15:30:36] <cradek> yes - and then it stops in position ready to be lowered onto whatever locks it
[15:30:59] <cradek> JT-Shop: ^
[15:31:06] <JT-Shop> I just checked and I"m using the lock too, I just forgot I did
[15:32:41] <ssi> cradek: you know the logic boards in the interface box on the lathe itself?
[15:32:46] <ssi> cradek: are you 100% not using them for anything?
[15:33:24] <cradek> those ran everything that was operated by M, S, T codes. I definitely removed them.
[15:33:31] <ssi> ok good
[15:33:33] <ssi> in that case
[15:33:38] <ssi> I'm going to completely rearrange that section of the box
[15:33:55] <ssi> the way it's set up now, those five terminal strips are wired to the boards via that PCB backplane
[15:34:10] <ssi> I'm going to remove the boards and then use those terminal strips just for termination
[15:34:22] <ssi> it'll mean rearranging all the wires coming into those strips
[15:34:27] <cradek> I was tempted to do that too, but didn't
[15:34:44] <ssi> cradek: if you get a chance, I'd love to see a photo of what you did in that box
[15:34:47] <cradek> probably because the pcb itself connected a bunch of stuff I didn't want
[15:35:03] <ssi> well if you remove the logic boards, I sorta doubt anything's connected to anything else
[15:35:12] <ssi> you might have a stray trace that's going up to the cardedge connectors
[15:35:14] <ssi> but that's about it
[15:35:33] <cradek> heh I don't believe that for a second :-)
[15:35:44] <ssi> heheh
[15:36:25] <ssi> I spose I could rip that whole deal out and replace it with some two-sided terminal strips
[15:36:29] <ssi> probably a saner idea
[15:37:05] <cradek> iirc, I wanted that area for mounting the pc, pc power supply, and mesa cards
[15:37:14] <ssi> ah
[15:37:18] <cradek> I tapped lots of 4-40 holes, I know that
[15:37:23] <ssi> I mounted that stuff inside the old control
[15:37:26] <cradek> I hate mechanical stuff
[15:37:45] <ssi> what are you using for servo amps?
[15:37:46] <cradek> heh you're going to have PLENTY of room...
[15:37:51] <ssi> yeah I have plenty :D
[15:37:59] <cradek> the originals of course!
[15:38:09] <ssi> where did you put them?
[15:38:19] <cradek> in a smaller box
[15:38:22] <ssi> :D
[15:38:25] <ssi> original power supply too?
[15:38:28] <ssi> 90V?
[15:38:40] <cradek> the box was a "little" phone system
[15:38:48] <cradek> yeah it's in the external box
[15:40:54] <ssi> I'm using the original box and the original block plugs
[15:41:03] <ssi> I made the mistake of taking one of those plugs apart last night
[15:41:07] <ssi> they fall apart like legos
[15:41:10] <ssi> it was a nightmare
[15:41:50] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/interface02.jpg
[15:42:00] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/interface03.jpg
[15:42:02] <cradek> heh yeah I remember those plugs!
[15:42:35] <ssi> JT-Shop: rotary phase converter in the bottom?
[15:42:51] <ssi> ooh maybe that's what I need to do.... DIN rail and some din mountable terminal blocks
[15:43:03] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:43:12] <ssi> know of a good source for those?
[15:43:32] <JT-Shop> I use AutomationDirect the push in kind
[15:43:59] <ssi> do they make ones for tiny wire
[15:44:03] <ssi> like 20-26 ga?
[15:44:26] <JT-Shop> the ones I used work up to 12 ga
[15:44:34] <JT-Shop> small works fine
[15:45:17] <ssi> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Terminal_Blocks/Screwless_DIN-Rail_Terminal_Blocks
[15:45:21] <ssi> those?
[15:45:43] <JT-Shop> loading the page ...............
[15:45:49] <ssi> oh right, dialupboy :D
[15:46:24] <jdhnc> I hate screwless terminal blocks
[15:46:56] <djdelorie> really? I've been swapping boards so much, I'm starting to hate the screwmore terminal blocks...
[15:47:20] <ssi> heheheh
[15:47:28] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIikH-h5LFI me like, i wonder if it does metric :P
[15:48:22] <JT-Shop> ssi: yea, that's the ones I used
[15:48:22] * djdelorie wonders if it can convert RPM to metric...
[15:50:02] <ssi> single level ones are $24 for 50
[15:50:04] <ssi> that's not bad
[15:53:57] <ssi> whoa automation direct is local to me
[15:54:45] <jdhnc> that's either good, or really bad.
[15:54:52] <ssi> haha yes
[15:55:13] <ssi> well it means that I could order the shit for pickup tonight if I wanted
[15:55:27] <ssi> but I dont really want to drive to cumming tonight, so I guess I'll have it shipped :P
[15:56:23] <ssi> it also means I have to pay sales tax
[15:56:24] <ssi> heh
[15:59:20] <JT-Shop> well that test proved that the THC-AD and my config is correct it showed 158 volts at the tip voltage terminals
[16:01:37] <djdelorie> JT-Shop - just right for driving my motors :-)
[16:01:55] <ssi> you wouldn't want to drive your motors with what comes out of the tip of that torch ;)
[16:02:55] <djdelorie> nope!
[16:26:24] <JT-Shop> seems the older you get the more bread crumb trails you have to leave about
[16:28:04] <PCW> tell me about it... ... ... ...
[16:39:15] <JT-Shop> well it helps if I put the proper tip in the plasma torch... on with the testing
[16:39:48] * JT-Shop wonders how/what to limit with the thc comp...
[16:46:40] <JT-Shop> PCW: the p gain seems to work :)
[16:46:55] * JT-Shop works on some kind of limits
[16:47:53] <PCW> well its always better to slow down when you get to where your going rather than always running at the same speed...
[16:50:11] <JT-Shop> thanks for the help on that
[16:50:51] <PCW> since its a pure velocity mode loop, a D term is not of any use
[16:50:53] <PCW> but yes next steps are to bound the error (or max velocity)
[16:50:54] <PCW> then a limit on acceleration (like limit2?)would be nice
[16:52:20] <PCW> (or maybe the stepgen can do that part)
[16:52:47] <JT-Shop> it might do that
[16:54:05] <PCW> It likely you can set the gain (P term) higher if you bound the error (limit the proportional l band)
[16:56:33] <PCW> Having a proportional feedback is the advantage of an actual A-D measurement rather than just a hi/lo bit from a comparator
[16:57:10] <JT-Shop> stepgen has a maxaccel pin
[16:57:55] <PCW> yeah so that should work
[17:21:55] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:45:13] <raynerd> guys, what cutting tool should I be using for an mdf door sign. The cutters I have are too think or ripping the edge up rather than giving me a clean cut
[17:45:25] <raynerd> think = thick
[17:51:51] <cpresser> raynerd: you need other MDF :)
[17:52:07] <cpresser> there is MDF with 'deep milling capabilities' (really expensive)
[17:52:51] <cpresser> it would be easier to use another wood (a solid one, slow growing), they are much easier to mill
[18:02:13] <kb8wmc> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-Dso201-Portable-Pocket-sized-Mini-Nano-Handheld-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-/220976820974?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33733eb2ee
[18:03:39] <jdhnc> kb8: there is a 4 channel version also
[18:04:44] <kb8wmc> jdhnc: very good....my how technology has changed my perspective
[18:06:13] <jdhnc> 2 of the quad one are digital only, they would be nice for watching timing
[18:06:25] <jdhnc> but, $200ish is a little much for that.
[18:06:40] <kb8wmc> ouch!.....yes sir
[18:11:42] <kb8wmc> jdhnc: just think back to not actually that many years ago...some laboratory with a real oscilloscope...
[18:12:37] <jdhnc> we still have a bunch of crate based scopes with dinky little screens, even some round ones
[18:13:08] * djdelorie discovered that the mcu *on the controller* makes a better mixed-signal scope than the one on his desk...
[18:13:13] <Jymmm> jdhnc: and cloth wiring too!!!
[18:13:17] <kb8wmc> wow, brings back some memories huh?
[18:13:25] <djdelorie> "while you're gathering all that data, could you send me a copy?"
[18:13:28] <jdhnc> I had a Tek 465b that was pretty nice, but too big to keep out.
[18:14:05] <jdhnc> I ebayed it and bought a cheap chinese color scope that does everything I need (which isn't much)
[18:14:16] <kb8wmc> and today?....shirt pocket size
[18:14:44] <Jymmm> and which will survive an EMP? LOL
[18:15:00] <kb8wmc> ah, excellent point
[18:15:39] <kb8wmc> well, if you listen to msm, that can never happen
[18:15:52] <Jymmm> MSM?
[18:16:12] <jdhnc> Jymm: media, it's what tea partiers call popular news
[18:16:53] <kb8wmc> yep, main stream media....lol
[18:18:18] <kb8wmc> msm, honest, concise, a real credit to their profession....
[18:18:19] <Jymmm> I don't listen to MSM, I listen to the Feds
[18:18:44] <Jymmm> When the guberment warns of such things, I tend to listen a bit =)
[18:19:53] <Jymmm> http://cryptome.org/emp.htm
[18:20:09] <jdhnc> the feds are always gaming something, depending on who's controlling the message
[18:20:38] <kb8wmc> anyone and everyone even remotely associated with giver-ment is on my pay-no-mind list...they will all lie at the drop of a hat....factually, they would lie even if the truth was more believable
[18:21:33] <kb8wmc> none of them were hired because of their charm, wit, intelligence, or honesty
[18:23:51] <CareBear\> kb8wmc : The nano DSOs are fun, but you obviously get the analog frontend that you're paying for. :)
[18:24:52] <kb8wmc> okay....
[18:38:53] <cpresser> CareBear\: did you ever use such a nano-DSO?
[18:38:59] <alex4nder> kb8wmc: there's irony in a ham radio operator saying anything about the feds
[18:40:45] <kb8wmc> yes, your point is well taken, most of the HAM's I have every met, are either borderline communists, outright socialists, definitely facist, statist minded and cowards to the core...
[18:42:39] <alex4nder> and they spend their days talking about their hemorrhoids on teh 2 meter repeaters
[18:42:48] <kb8wmc> lol
[18:42:56] <kb8wmc> yeah, that may be so
[18:45:55] <kb8wmc> alex4nder: here is a link to kind of a cute cartoon for you....et al, of course....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUS1m5MSt9k
[19:38:43] <ssi> dammit :(
[19:39:25] <alex4nder> sup
[19:40:27] <ssi> guy asked me to make some parts for him
[19:40:30] <ssi> and one of the parts I flat can't make
[19:40:37] <ssi> and it pisses me off, because it should be easy
[19:41:32] <Tom_itx> why can't you make it?
[19:41:34] <ssi> but my big manual lathe is just flat worn out, and I can't do it :(
[19:41:53] <ssi> it's a 7.5" long piece of 2.5"x1/4" DOM tubing, bored at each end for a bearing seat
[19:42:05] <ssi> and my big manual lathe is the only lathe that's reasonably big enough to do it
[19:42:14] <ssi> and it just won't cut that seat accurately enough
[19:42:27] <ssi> it's cutting a taper, and it can't hold a diameter even over 5/8"
[19:43:25] <alex4nder> yah
[19:43:28] <alex4nder> that sucks
[19:52:52] <archivist> last large job like that on my worn lathe I was adjusting dia as it turned, one has to keep ones wits about you
[19:59:21] <elmo40> tighten the jib ;)
[20:10:27] <archivist> upturned v on a southbend
[20:39:51] <ssi> PCW: new bitfile works, thanks :)
[20:40:27] <ssi> scale of 0.02 seems to be right on the money
[20:40:53] <frysteev_> wooo
[20:41:35] <ssi> dare I try to get the servo amps hooked up and jog the axes?! D:
[20:41:52] <frysteev_> DARE
[20:41:59] <ssi> :D
[20:43:25] <elmo40> take a vid. I wanna see your hair all frizzy if something shorts ;)
[20:43:42] <ssi> I don't think it'll be quite that bad
[20:44:00] <ssi> I think all I'm lacking is the +/-12v bias supply for the amps
[20:44:05] <ssi> and I can take that from the PC power supply
[20:44:15] <ssi> however, I don't have limit switches wired yet, and servos without limits scare me
[20:44:33] <elmo40> that they would
[20:44:53] <frysteev_> just have the estop handy
[20:45:01] <ssi> I don't have a physical estop yet either
[20:47:39] <frysteev_> hurry up
[20:53:06] <jdhnc> oh gn0!
[21:10:51] <alex4nder> yoh
[21:51:45] <ssi> k both resolvers are working, and seem to be working pretty darn well despite the overdriven signals
[21:51:58] <ssi> also I'm able to measure my backlash
[21:52:12] <ssi> X has almost imperceptible backlash... maybe 0.0001" tops
[21:52:19] <ssi> Z is more like 0.036"
[21:54:20] <ssi> resolver wiring:
http://p.twimg.com/AoZcHjLCQAEwcRC.jpg:large
[22:34:59] <aitek> why spindle reverse does not send pwm to the motor?
[22:36:25] <aitek> the spindle is working fine, but the reverse direction does not work
[22:36:44] <aitek> i connect net spindle-rev motion.spindle-reverse => parport.0.pin-17-out
[22:37:04] <aitek> when i do m4 the output goes on
[22:37:13] <aitek> but i do not get any pmw
[22:38:46] <aitek> curr-dc in pwmgen is always 0 unless i do M3 then it goes up
[23:10:55] <aitek> anyone knows how spindle reverse direction is suppose to work?
[23:12:06] <aitek> it looks to me as if the pwmgen is asked to produce a negative pmw wich he can't since the minuimum is 0
[23:12:44] <aitek> and my spindle is stopped at pwm 0
