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[00:22:13] <ssi> frysteev_:
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/427583_812547077692_71107655_35478841_1222476943_n.jpg
[00:22:16] <ssi> panel carnage
[00:27:07] <mazafaka> Heh, what if You wera a MotoX helmet with camera and a GoPro camera, and play chess, will the videos be interesting?
[00:27:14] <mazafaka> *you wear
[00:27:23] <ssi> use 60fps mode
[00:27:28] <ssi> for SUPER SLO-MO CAPTURES
[00:27:43] <mazafaka> *You wera a MotoX with a GoPro camera, and play chess, will the videos be interesting?
[00:28:07] <mazafaka> slow-motion for the moments gamer thinks maybe?
[00:28:43] <ssi> I've got two gopros
[00:28:51] <ssi> I have mounts for them on my airplane :D
[00:29:50] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI7zX7h7QLQ
[00:44:54] <mazafaka> two seems can play chess under an airplane standing on the earth... So don't, so don't miss to do it
[00:45:43] <Nick001> ssi - do you have a gear ratio to the resolver?
[00:53:34] <frysteev_> ssi: thats sad
[01:13:11] <ssi_ipad> Whoa does this work?
[01:13:15] <ssi_ipad> Near
[01:13:20] <ssi_ipad> Neat even
[03:14:24] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:14:41] <DJ9DJ> good morning everyone :D
[03:14:50] <ewidance> hi
[03:15:46] <ewidance> C'est bien matinal pour faire de la cnc :)
[03:28:34] <archivist> it is never too early
[05:03:20] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: bah! early wakeup guys... i hate it... [mode: shout] "WIIIFFEEEE!!!! COFFEEEEE!!!!!!1111oneeleven" [/mode]
[05:03:35] <DJ9DJ> lol
[05:03:43] <DJ9DJ> good morning Loetmichel
[05:03:43] <Loetmichel> mornin' everyone ;-)
[07:42:42] <mrsun> hmm, when milling out pieces from flats, how the heck to make them not jump out and into the freakin end mill .... every time :P
[07:42:55] <mrsun> always some kind of damage on the pieces :(
[07:43:22] <jthornton> you mean a profile cut of a part?
[07:43:38] <mrsun> yes
[07:43:55] <jthornton> no holes to hold the part down?
[07:44:18] <mrsun> i guess i could do that after it has milled the holes, but then i would have to make a fixture for it all =)
[07:44:24] <jthornton> yep
[07:44:26] <mrsun> so the holes are in good places
[07:44:52] <jthornton> or mill all but some tabs then clamp it down and mill the tabs out
[07:45:02] <Farthen> can't you just use adhesive tape to stick it down?
[07:45:22] <mrsun> i guess that would work also
[07:45:34] <mrsun> as the forces arent very great at that last cut part
[07:46:14] <Farthen> i do that sometimes and it works pretty well
[07:47:03] <Farthen> and if you chose the right tape (the ones for carpets work very good) it should be pretty strong, too
[07:47:28] <mrsun> the double sided i have is pretty damn strong =)
[07:48:39] <jthornton> what's the ideal serving temperature for an ale?
[07:48:41] <Farthen> yeah, just be careful to not have any bumps on the tape when sticking it :P
[07:49:21] <mrsun> Farthen, hehe, its not high precision parts, they are adjustable so i can have very low precision when making them and the machine they go on :P
[07:49:39] <mrsun> and throught hole stuff almost everywhere except a pocket that has kinda close tolerances =)
[07:49:54] <Farthen> ah, perfect, that makes adhesive tape even more suitable
[07:50:45] <mrsun> just need to either cast and face some 10mm alu or buy 10mm alu ... for 16 of these parts
[07:51:18] <mrsun> no 12 of them! :P
[07:51:43] <mrsun> if i could get 4 out of one piece on the mill it would be good =)
[07:51:47] <Farthen> what are you making?
[07:52:15] <mrsun> http://i41.tinypic.com/wkkdo5.png <-- for wood working machine
[07:52:22] <mrsun> linear rollers
[07:52:35] <Farthen> ah, i see
[07:52:46] <Farthen> one machine to feed the other… i like those things :p
[07:52:53] <mrsun> Farthen, yes =)
[07:53:00] <mrsun> bought one, build the rest :P
[07:53:14] <mrsun> bought one and converted it ... ,that is
[07:56:33] <mrsun> it has been damn expensive to try and tool up from having nothing tho =)
[07:56:50] <mrsun> and then a wood working machine, ofc only thing that requires realy is alot of wood working cutters
[07:56:59] <mrsun> compared to the mill with dial indicators etc etc
[07:57:02] <Farthen> yeah, sure
[07:58:17] <Farthen> and also it is fact that you can't machine a piece for a high precision machine with a low precision one :p
[07:59:01] <Jymmm> why not
[07:59:01] <jthornton> which part are you making?
[07:59:14] <mrsun> jthornton, me ?
[07:59:17] <jthornton> I don't know why not
[07:59:24] <jthornton> yea
[07:59:24] <mrsun> the blog with 4 slots and the one with 2 slots
[07:59:36] <mrsun> rest is just sketched there for reference to how it would fit a 30x30mm profile
[07:59:40] <mrsun> with skate bearings
[07:59:55] <jthornton> ah ok makes sense now
[08:00:29] <mrsun> =)
[08:00:53] <jthornton> another trick I have used is to mill most of the profile then clamp the two parts together while milling the tabs off
[08:02:09] <Jymmm> mrsun: how are you going to keep the bearings from rising off the guiderail?
[08:02:24] <mrsun> Jymmm, 2 blocks, one from the underside also
[08:02:41] <Jymmm> mrsun: rectangular rail?
[08:02:49] <mrsun> Jymmm, huh ? :)
[08:03:00] <mrsun> the <> part is the guide rail
[08:03:00] <Jymmm> mrsun: rectangular rail?
[08:03:09] <mrsun> Jymmm, square
[08:03:27] <Jymmm> ular on a 45deg, same diff
[08:03:43] <mrsun> "ular"? :)
[08:04:35] <Jymmm> you're gonna have a hell of a time adjusting then tensionand alignment
[08:05:09] <mrsun> Jymmm, yeah im sure :/
[08:05:31] <Jymmm> that's a LOT of surface contact as well.
[08:05:41] <mrsun> Jymmm, not good? :)
[08:06:03] <mrsun> figured as it was roller bearings it wouldnt mater if i had alot of surface contact =)
[08:06:24] <Jymmm> Well, a PITA when I tried it. You might consider a HEX rod and only a third "spring loaded" bearing
[08:07:30] <mrsun> how would a hex rod work better? :)
[08:07:35] <Jymmm> or even a round rail.
[08:07:37] <mrsun> i could use round rails with it also
[08:07:46] <mrsun> would work the same but very small contact area
[08:07:58] <Jymmm> right, and less resistance
[08:08:02] <mrsun> but then it might be a bit smaller
[08:08:06] <mrsun> bit small
[08:08:07] <mrsun> *
[08:08:18] <mrsun> cant fit very large rounds in that little gap =)
[08:08:34] <Jymmm> so, look at HEX,
[08:08:57] <mrsun> Jymmm, but wouldnt hex become the same thing except the sides would be flat? :P
[08:09:19] <jthornton> no, hex would be more expensive
[08:09:27] <mrsun> and the degrees of hex wouldnt be 90 ? would only have a small rim of the bearings pushing against the rail, i was going for some kind of rigidity also =)
[08:09:33] <Jymmm> You only need to keep it from rising up.
[08:09:44] <Jymmm> 120degre iirc
[08:09:48] <mrsun> i figured 2 30x30mm square pipes with support blocks between them
[08:10:26] <Jymmm> mrsun: Well, just consider how you want to tension it before you start buying/fabricating material
[08:10:49] <mrsun> Jymmm, im going to try them out a bit before i start the build of the actual mill yes =)
[08:10:54] <mrsun> trying out concepts atm =)
[08:11:20] <Jymmm> and wear grooves the bearings will cause as well
[08:11:45] <Jymmm> Less surface contact == more fudge factor
[08:11:46] <mrsun> that is a very valid point...
[08:11:54] <mrsun> and what is fudge factor? :)
[08:12:21] <Jymmm> A Good Thing (tm)
[08:14:45] <mrsun> 22mm pipe is the biggest i can fit with this bearing layout
[08:15:11] <mrsun> that is round
[08:16:36] <raynerd> Hello, can someone please tell me what an estop actually is!!
[08:16:43] <mrsun> emergency stop ? :)
[08:16:47] <raynerd> I read about it a lot, but don`t fully understand
[08:16:59] <Jymmm> mrsun: I used 10-32 SS screws like this as the head would align the bearing perfectly and a flat washer to raise it of the mount
http://topkayaker.net/TopKayakerShop/images/medium/WSW-HMP-1032SS125_MED.jpg
[08:17:02] <mrsun> should halt just about everything dead in its tracks
[08:17:02] <raynerd> yes, but where is it placed... like limit switches are tripped by the table
[08:17:15] <mrsun> raynerd, its tripped by you, the operator
[08:17:15] <raynerd> so it is just a manually operated kill switch
[08:17:31] <raynerd> I see! That does make sense and I presumed that was the case.
[08:18:20] <Jymmm> raynerd:
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/304699/304699,1242238639,2/stock-photo-emergency-stop-button-on-a-white-background-30190750.jpg
[08:18:49] <mazafaka> 3 drunk idiots wanted something form me at work (about 19:30). Tomorrow I will have a talk with them sequently, except one meybe, whom I know.
[08:19:12] <Jymmm> mazafaka: Is it sex?
[08:19:22] <mazafaka> Jymmm: it's a fight
[08:19:39] <Jymmm> mazafaka: Lovely
[08:20:56] <mazafaka> i was near my cnc when thry have come and the one I knew startyed to say 'Whatn are you doing for the one whom I was stiffling/dissuade
[08:21:35] <mazafaka> they will be sane tommorow morning and nevertheless will have got they stuff
[08:21:53] <Jymmm> stiffling?
[08:22:09] <mazafaka> just a sort of a clamp or a hug
[08:22:16] <Jymmm> k
[08:22:34] <mazafaka> 'k' ??
[08:22:38] <Jymmm> ok
[08:23:48] <mazafaka> idiots want something from me! And I am an intellectual one, simultaneouesly
[08:23:49] <Jymmm> If you were drunk and working in a machien shop, I'd get you fired.
[08:24:41] <mazafaka> it's already decided that all were drunk, becaus eit's common in Russia to add e.g. solvent into a coffee teapoit
[08:25:01] <Jymmm> WTF?!
[08:25:34] <mazafaka> I wonder how will they act when they are not drunk, because I'm sane when I am drunk untill I fall adeath onto the bed
[08:25:35] <Jymmm> Add Syrup of Ipacac to the tea pot!
[08:25:48] <mazafaka> 'Ipacac' ??
[08:26:06] <Jymmm> It makes you vomit
[08:26:22] <Jymmm> Syrup of Ipacac
[08:26:27] <frysteev_> ola
[08:26:29] <mazafaka> I acted like an idiot maybe, asked the guard of the plant we will have told the same, and gwent home
[08:26:58] <mazafaka> What is Ipacac?
[08:27:32] <Jymmm> mazafaka: "Syrup of Ipacac" == Makes you VOMIT. Can get from pharmacy
[08:27:54] <mazafaka> Why do I need one, I am already at home.
[08:28:25] <Jymmm> mazafaka: for THEIR teapot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrup_of_ipecac
[08:28:43] <mazafaka> like in the 'Formula 51' ?? :)
[08:30:21] <mazafaka> Heh, they will not be drunk in the morning, and I will at first time arrange such a stuff since the school's time when I was considered as the one 'having a backbone broken'. Could be funny.
[08:31:44] <mazafaka> I can hurt one and be cool at the same time! :)
[08:32:17] <mazafaka> three in a row equals to a 'band' or 'crew'...
[08:38:54] <mazafaka> When twelve people attack you (at winter, on icy road), it's worse. Thry're drunk but somehow or anyhow some of them move around. When these three attacked, I have got back to the guard and said three drunk idiots attack me. It will be easy to talk to them tomorrow. We decide to go home and I decided they will hhave heard of me again later.
[08:40:24] <mazafaka> Such a CNC-applied theme, heh. Smart people have to protect their lifestyle with what they get from this lifestyle.
[08:46:55] <mazafaka> one another time, 'do not let anyone anyhow make you drink with them or sit with them'. They depend on they mothers-at-law and such and you do simply do not need to have a relation to what they have in thry soul as a 'bad wealth'.
[09:27:51] <mrsun> hmm, 2x 22x2mm round pipes on each side with support bracers between them and bolted to the table of the mill, should be rigid enough i guess =)
[09:29:38] <Jymmm> mrsun: And when you get done playing with skate bearings, you can buy linear rails like eveyone else.
[09:30:02] <mrsun> Jymmm, yes, but its expensive like hell :(
[09:30:48] <mrsun> hell just the shipping of 1 rail to sweden costs more then this setup in its whole
[09:31:27] <Jymmm> ah
[09:32:08] <mrsun> sweden sucks as a country to try and get stuff in ... buy it fromw ithin sweden, pay 3 - 10x the price from china or something, buy it from china, get shipping that is 2x the price of the item
[09:32:55] <mrsun> then when it gets here and its big stuff, you get * 1.33~ about ont he price you payed + another shipping from within sweden
[09:33:09] <Jymmm> Just use drawer slides then, you guys have all that assembled furniture, they should be cheap enough =)
[09:33:28] <mrsun> hmm or wait that was wrong ... if something costs 1000sek to buy you get to pay another 330sek on araival + another shipping
[09:33:54] <mrsun> taxed to death in this country
[09:34:28] <Jymmm> mrsun: Here ya go... a house that you can have shipped to you...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108775/Ikea-launches-80-000-flat-pack-DIY-house.html
[09:35:00] <mrsun> haha =)
[09:37:04] <mrsun> gonna try and design it so a transition to linear bearings wouldnt be to hard, i want the lm guide stuff =)
[09:37:33] <frysteev_> moo
[09:37:44] <mrsun> tho i dont realy care as it will be quite small a machine, when im building the full size (2440x1200mm work area) i will have money enough to buy real stuff :P
[09:42:30] <mrsun> 1000 sek for the frame of the machine and the guide pipes, + 480sek shipment tho, not to bad =)
[09:42:45] <mrsun> (1500x1000mm frame)
[10:10:00] <ssi> I'm at a loss
[10:14:15] <elmo40> ssi: on what?
[10:14:22] <ssi> what to do next
[10:15:02] <elmo40> well, where are you at? what has been accomplished?
[10:15:38] <ssi> starting to wire mesa gear to the machine
[10:15:48] <ssi> started with resolvers, but I'm stuck there for various reasons
[10:16:26] <ssi> not sure there's much sense in trying to hook up PWM to drive the servo amps until I have position feedback
[10:17:17] <elmo40> I was wondering if the parport is enough to use the input from an MPG, of if I need another board
[10:17:25] <ssi> I need to address all the limit switches and interlocks, get spindle drive and hi/low clutches going, get coolant pump control working, collet open/close
[10:17:30] <ssi> what else... oh yea toolchange turret
[10:17:58] <elmo40> tool changers, gotta love them :)
[10:18:30] <ssi> I would like to talk to some of the other folks that have converted this lathe about how they did their turret control
[10:18:39] <ssi> cause I'm not real comfortable yet with how the thing actually works
[10:56:36] <frysteev_> moo
[11:08:43] -kornbluth.freenode.net:#linuxcnc- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support:
http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
[11:19:43] <emcuser> How do I specify a bipolar stepper motor?
[11:31:56] <archivist> how are you driving the motor
[11:49:56] <emcuser> It is driven by a control unit that came with the machine.
[11:51:47] <archivist> then step dir, you done specify bipolar/unipolar
[11:51:51] <archivist> dont
[12:28:30] <emcuser> Ok, that makes sense. Could it be the controller that is not working?
[12:29:08] <archivist> you have not given us any clue to know :)
[12:30:01] <archivist> more like you have not enabled it or not given it a watchdog signal
[12:35:42] <ssi> hrm
[13:13:45] <emcuser> watchdog signal?
[13:14:28] <emcuser> archivist: You have to excuse me, I'm really all new to CNC. I'm setting up this machine for the first time.
[13:15:08] <archivist> also known as charge pump
[13:15:32] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?About_Charge_Pumps
[13:25:32] <Loetmichel> emcuser: which Stepper driver do you have?
[13:25:58] <Loetmichel> any Numbers /manufactueres on it?
[13:28:21] <emcuser> Loetmichel: The only info is the imprint "MaxNC10"
[13:29:37] <Loetmichel> http://www.positiveflow.com/maxnc1.htm
[13:29:39] <Loetmichel> this one?
[13:30:05] <Loetmichel> looks like it is driven directly with gcode
[13:30:21] <emcuser> Not the exact same mill, but it looks very similar.
[13:31:09] <emcuser> The controller we have has a printer parallell port as input and only three 5-pin outputs for the stepper motors.
[13:31:31] <Loetmichel> hmm.
[13:31:33] <Loetmichel> 5pin?
[13:31:42] <Loetmichel> one pin PE?
[13:32:23] <Loetmichel> (protection earth, mostly green or green/yellow striped wire)
[13:32:48] <Loetmichel> Do you have any photo of the controller board?
[13:33:06] <Loetmichel> preferably Hi-res and both sides?
[13:35:33] <emcuser> no, I'm afraid I don't
[13:35:58] <emcuser> I think there is 1 pin per manget + earth
[13:36:58] <emcuser> This looks more like the mill we have:
http://www.isptechcorp.com/images/img12_maxnc_10_OL.jpg
[13:38:05] <archivist> do you have any manual showing the connections on the 25 way port
[13:38:23] <Loetmichel> emcuser: the problem is: until we know the pinout at the parallelport we cant suiggest hwo to configure EMC2^W linuxcnc
[13:39:18] <Loetmichel> and if you have some photos of the board maybe one of us recognizes it or we are able to trace the PCB to know which pin does what
[13:40:11] <emcuser> I see. I don't have the mill / board here with me, but I can try to get some pictures of the board. We opened it up today to see if we could figure it out but without any luck.
[13:40:55] <emcuser> archivist: No, that's another problem. I wish we had. We ended up trying the different default setups in LinuxCNC without luck.
[13:41:21] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: simular to proxxon mill
[13:42:04] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: that helps not to gain knowledge on the pinout of the lpt port
[13:42:30] <IchGuckLive> the bord that is mounted on the mashine is not compatible with emc
[13:42:55] <IchGuckLive> it uses a internel language no pinlayout as parport
[13:43:05] <IchGuckLive> the mashine takes full bit pattern
[13:44:23] <IchGuckLive> i did a replace with a standart §D step for 35Euros here on mine
[13:45:12] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: did you open the case of the driver
[13:45:26] <IchGuckLive> does it say FP800 or 1000
[13:45:39] <Thetawaves> coolant system for my engraving machine is almost finished
[13:46:09] <IchGuckLive> Thetawaves: watertight O.o
[13:46:29] <IchGuckLive> or only airprice
[13:46:31] <Thetawaves> i'm using pure canola oil
[13:46:44] <Thetawaves> so oiltight
[13:46:51] <IchGuckLive> that is a smell
[13:47:04] <IchGuckLive> you will be impressed
[13:47:08] <emcuser> IchGuckLive: I don't recall reading neither FP800 nor 1000
[13:47:28] <IchGuckLive> what does it say then emcuser
[13:47:38] <Thetawaves> they also had peanut oil too for quite a bit more
[13:47:56] <Loetmichel> canola oil? wahts that?
[13:48:04] <Thetawaves> modified rapeseed oil
[13:48:08] <Loetmichel> ah
[13:48:08] <emcuser> IchGuckLive: I don't have the board with me right now. I can check that the next time ;)
[13:48:13] <Thetawaves> canadian oil, actually
[13:48:25] <emcuser> By the way, do any of you recognize this part? We wondered about what it was for:
http://hans-w.com/maxnc_factory_supplied_motor_control.jpg
[13:48:29] <Loetmichel> Thetawaves: did that out of sheer desperation lately
[13:48:33] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: where are you located in the world
[13:48:42] <Loetmichel> but with kitzchen rapeseed oil
[13:49:00] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, my machine is in the middle of my living room, go between laying around and watching tv to making chips
[13:49:10] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, very important to have nontoxic cutting fluid
[13:49:11] <Loetmichel> milling is ok, great surface, but the oilk ist hardening like wood oil
[13:49:39] <Loetmichel> and it does that in 2 days
[13:49:45] <Thetawaves> huh!
[13:49:54] <Loetmichel> so i hat a little fun cleaning my machine ;-)
[13:50:46] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, do you know why it was gumming up?
[13:50:59] <Thetawaves> exposure to air?
[13:51:03] <Loetmichel> Thetawaves: mine is in the kids room (no kids so i had occupied it as workshop)
[13:51:15] <Loetmichel> its hardening with O2
[13:51:17] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: witch country are you from
[13:51:44] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, thought about adding soap or anything like that
[13:52:14] <Loetmichel> like the lineseed oil one uses to shine wood
[13:52:30] <Loetmichel> Thetawaves: would not helb
[13:52:33] <Loetmichel> help
[13:52:49] <emcuser> IchGuckLive: Norway
[13:53:12] <Loetmichel> better to use a vegetable oil which does not harden at all (sunflower for example, if i remember correctly)
[13:53:33] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: let me have a look
[13:55:00] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, i didn't know *any* oil hardens with exposure to air
[13:55:03] <IchGuckLive> emcuser:
http://search.eim.ebay.no/?ev=&kw=tb6560&ect=&elc=3&ec=&eb=S%C3%B8k
[13:55:24] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, this bottle of canola sitting in my cabinet for a year seems to disagree with you
[13:55:43] <Loetmichel> Thetawaves: what do you think happens when you "oil" a pieche of wooden furniture?
[13:55:52] <Loetmichel> piece
[13:56:06] <Thetawaves> the wood soaks up the oil
[13:56:25] <Loetmichel> the (mostly lineseed) oil oxidizes and hardenes, its like a soft plastic afterwards
[13:56:33] <emcuser> IchGuckLive: Thanks! If we can't get this board up and running I'll consider going with a board like that.
[13:56:41] <Loetmichel> same process for original oil colors for painting
[13:57:04] <IchGuckLive> you need the 2.5A Version not the 3A that is realy importend
[13:57:20] <emcuser> Why?
[13:57:46] <IchGuckLive> cause your steppers look like 1,25A
[13:57:51] <Loetmichel> emcuser: because the 3A version of the TB6560-boards cant be dailed down below 1,5A
[13:57:58] <IchGuckLive> standard nema24
[13:58:01] <Loetmichel> if your motors need less they will overheat
[13:58:09] <emcuser> Ah, ok. Thanks :)
[13:58:12] <Loetmichel> dialed
[13:58:52] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: why does norway ebay not list hongkong
[13:59:14] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, so what should i do?
[13:59:50] <Loetmichel> thetawaves: google for "non-hadening vegetable oil"
[13:59:56] <Loetmichel> like i do atm ;-)
[13:59:58] <Loetmichel> +r
[14:00:29] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: there are deals around 38Euros 300 Nr Kr
[14:00:59] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: including fat and shipping
[14:01:50] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, hydrogenation seems to be caused by hydrogen, not oxygen
[14:02:11] <Loetmichel> i read oxygenation
[14:02:24] <Loetmichel> but i am no chemical master ;-)
[14:02:26] <IchGuckLive> hydrogenation water power generators ?
[14:02:45] <IchGuckLive> B) O.O
[14:03:27] <Thetawaves> An oil may be hydrogenated to increase resistance to rancidity (oxidation) or to change its physical characteristics.
[14:11:05] <Thetawaves> Instead, use a non-hardening oil such as grape seed oil, peanut, almond, or olive oil.
[14:11:15] <Thetawaves> i should have fucking got that peanut oil
[14:12:25] <emcuser> What about the HobbyCNC boards. Are they any good?
[14:13:20] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: i got 26 education mashines running on the TB6560 and thay work well for the minimal price
[14:14:11] <emcuser> IchGuckLive: Is the TB6560 directly supported in LinuxCNC?
[14:14:36] <IchGuckLive> it is as fast as a Gecko 540
[14:15:08] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: al standart parport modulels are supported
[14:15:50] <IchGuckLive> BY the Way @ all someone has a DSC810 running ?
[14:16:33] <IchGuckLive> this is half the price of Gecko320 and the new version seams to work propper at 48V
[14:18:04] <emcuser> I've got to go, but thank you all for the info :)
[14:18:13] <IchGuckLive> emcuser: first try to find out some more about your mounted driver so we can help you
[14:19:12] <emcuser> I will :)
[14:20:47] <IchGuckLive> i wish all of you a nice sunday by for me also !
[14:22:46] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel,
[14:22:47] <Thetawaves> Vegetable oils, such as olive oil, corn oil, peanut oil (despite the nut name it appears to behave like a vegetable oil), all have a much greater susceptibility to oxidation. They also are essentially completely non-hardening, or only so slowly that one can find roman era hardened oil, but not within a couple of years.
[14:23:40] <Loetmichel> Thetawaves: then get peanut butter^w oil ;-)
[14:24:00] <Thetawaves> Loetmichel, costco sells a 35lb jug of it for 50$
[14:24:10] <Loetmichel> hmmm, i have olive oil in the kitchen... maybe i should snatch some...
[14:24:47] <Loetmichel> but atm i have enough real cooling fluid handy
[14:24:57] <Thetawaves> (i know since i saw it when i bought a 35lb jug of canola oil yesterday. fuuu)
[14:26:39] <pcw> I learned about vegetable oil oxidation a long time ago when I used a refrigerator compressor as an aquarium pump
[14:26:41] <pcw> and used (non toxic) corn oil, it slowly ground to a gummy mess after a couple weeks
[14:28:34] <Thetawaves> pcw and corn oil is supposed to be one of those non-hardening ones :P
[14:29:15] <pcw> it worked really well for a few weeks...
[14:30:16] <Thetawaves> i'm using a submersible pump, i wonder if that would create a low oxygen environment in the pump
[14:31:13] <raynerd> anyone know of a good link to a simple wiring diagram of 3 axis limit switches. I`m using a 3axis TB6560 cheapo driver and I think I`ve only got 4 inputs to play with.
[14:31:38] <cradek> you have all six limit switches?
[14:32:14] <raynerd> not yet...need to buy so need to look at wiring
[14:32:30] <raynerd> I currently own none
[14:32:58] <raynerd> I believe easiest way is to wire all in series..
[15:05:02] <alex4nder> hey
[15:20:19] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ALJ7dzf_pc is it just me or does that machine feel like it realy lacks rigidity ? :P
[15:21:02] <alex4nder> yah, you shouldn't build a machine like that
[15:25:50] <archivist> ew, he will have problems
[15:27:29] <Thetawaves> ahhh, yeah an excellent example
[15:27:35] <Thetawaves> what would you guys do differently
[15:27:40] <archivist> I can imagine the cutter grabbing and twisting the router off the gantry
[15:28:11] <mrsun> way to long Z axis
[15:28:14] <mrsun> to high up for starters
[15:28:27] <mrsun> will vibrate like hell when cutting =)
[15:28:52] <archivist> there is a twisting moment along the gantry worst when spindle in the middle
[15:29:39] <Thetawaves> so there side profiles on the gantry should be deeper
[15:30:43] <Thetawaves> yeah a combination of deeper gantry walls, and lower z axis would make it much stronger
[15:32:35] <mrsun> and not having it offset from the gantry also
[15:32:35] <mrsun> first the guides are offset forward, then the spindle is even more offset forward
[15:32:36] <mrsun> the more in the middle the better i would say =)
[15:33:20] <Thetawaves> its hard to think how more in the middle you could make it
[15:33:58] <mrsun> move the pipe holding the spindle to the back of the "gantry stands" would make for a bit less X travel but the spindle would be more in the center of it all =)
[15:34:18] <mrsun> add more support on the back also =)
[15:35:23] <mrsun> or add more support under them on the frontside
[15:35:53] <mrsun> would make it more in the "middle" =)
[15:36:12] <mrsun> like archivist said the twisting action for the gantry will be quite great =)
[15:36:48] <mrsun> also i would thicken the pipe the X axis is on, by adding more support right behind the beam it sits on =)
[15:37:02] <mrsun> just my thoughts tho =)
[15:37:15] <mrsun> and do you realy need to cut like 300mm thick pieces? :)
[15:37:27] <mrsun> is 100mm of cutting action enough ? ... shorten the Z height
[15:37:27] <Thetawaves> haha
[15:37:45] <Thetawaves> my machine only has 50mm :(
[15:37:54] <mrsun> quite enough imo =)
[15:37:59] <mrsun> for flat pieces
[15:38:09] <mrsun> worse if you are doing some big work, but if you are then use a real mill :P
[15:38:13] <Thetawaves> right, i will not be able to make large angled brackets
[15:38:44] <archivist> problem comes when you need to lift up enough for a drill chuck/whatever
[15:38:45] <Thetawaves> if only i had a real mill
[15:38:58] <mrsun> archivist, true =)
[15:39:17] <mrsun> my X1 is far to weak in the column also, when i mill high up fromt he table it vibrates like hell ...
[15:39:26] <archivist> mine is tall due to the stacked axes
[15:39:47] <archivist> I stiffened my column
[15:39:48] <mrsun> yeah tall isnt a problem if you beef up the supports i guess =)
[15:40:14] <mrsun> my column flexes alot, so i tend to want to mill as close to the table as possible
[15:40:27] <archivist> was unable to cut steel till I stiffened it
[15:41:00] <mrsun> i can cut steel fine by the table, but higher up i havent even dared to try as ive seen with the dial indicators how much it flexes with very little forces on the tool =)
[15:41:46] <mrsun> it made short work of a machine bolt last week, misscalculated my X Y positions, so it ran straight into the holding bolt, cut a very nice finnish on it and its very flat on the side now :P
[15:42:33] <mrsun> dont know how the end mill felt tho, isnt machine bolts hardened somewhat? :)
[15:44:20] <archivist> supposed to be hardened and tempered but was it a cheaper chinese one
[15:44:43] <mrsun> archivist, hehe nah its bought in sweden, but never know where they come from :P
[15:46:56] <mrsun> maybe not the best finnish i guess like of the real machines, but for a X1 i was quite impressed =)
[15:47:14] <mrsun> it was like it didnt even feel the bolt, just heard a strange noise .. when i looked well .. mayhem ;P
[15:50:16] <archivist> if cutting conditions are ok it will just plough through :)
[16:18:47] <Jymmm> http://grist.org/list/scotts-miracle-gro-pleads-guilty-to-selling-poisoned-bird-seed/
[16:28:01] <ssi> so anyone know anything about hall effect limit switches?
[16:28:26] <ssi> I think the machine originally fed them 25V, and I'm wondering if I can get by with 12v instead
[16:28:41] <alex4nder> that's a lot of voltage for hall effect anything
[16:28:48] <alex4nder> most sensors I've seen want like 8 volts.
[16:29:37] <ssi> now that I'm into this conversion, stuff is getting pretty tough
[16:29:48] <pcw> 24VDC is a standard control voltage for industrial electronics
[16:29:51] <ssi> I have more "wiring diagrams" than I do schematics, an dthe diagrams don't really go into detail about the signals
[16:30:11] <ssi> pcw: think it's likely that all the SSRs in the thing are 24v control?
[16:30:23] <ssi> pcw: and will they switch worth a crap on 12V or 5V?
[16:31:30] <ssi> (and for whatever, all the drawings call out a +25V, not +24V)
[16:38:57] <alex_joni> most industrial stuff I've seen is 24V
[16:39:22] <alex_joni> only exception have been motor brakes which are 25 to account for voltage drop (because of relative high currents)
[16:54:05] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:01:42] <pcw> I don't know about the SSRs but it should be something that can be determined by a part name search
[17:14:05] <ssi> the SSRs are being controlled with 12V
[17:14:06] <ssi> that'll help
[17:16:19] <joe9> can someone please give me the list of urls from /etc/apt/sources.list?
[17:16:29] <joe9> of the linuxcnc cd?
[17:16:54] <joe9> i messed it up and i need it without rebooting, and my cd is already being used.
[17:26:20] <joe9> got it, don't bother. thanks.
[17:57:03] <jdhnc> ok.
[18:09:42] <alex4nder> hey
[18:52:02] <mikebronner> hi guys, so I just got my CNC Router built and in a workable state (some final detail work is still outstanding, but that will wait for next week). I wanted to start entering my tools into EMC2 using the AXIS front-end, but I could find little documentation on editing the tool table. If anyone could give me some pointers where I might find documentation, that would be great (I'm a complete newb at this).
[18:58:58] <Jymmm> mikebronner:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html
[18:59:49] <Jymmm> mikebronner:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tool+table+site%3Alinuxcnc.org
[19:00:25] <mikebronner> thanks Jymmm, reading now :) trying to wrap my head around these concepts'
[19:00:35] <Jymmm> mikebronner: also might check
https://www.google.com/search?q=tool+table+site%3Awiki.linuxcnc.org
[19:05:46] <mikebronner> still a bit confused, maybe my expectations were off. I have tools with various shapes (rounded, pointed 45 ^ angle, pointed 60^ angle). It appears that the tool table only accounts for flat bits?
[19:08:47] <jdhnc> it will allow you to use tool length and radius compensation, what else would you like?
[19:10:04] * mikebronner cut angle or radius for shaped bits. perhaps what I'm thinking of is specified in the CAM software?
[19:12:56] <jdhnc> yes
[19:13:35] <jdhnc> the CAM should also compensate for radius
[19:15:09] <Tom_itx> you select that with the tool
[19:15:23] <Tom_itx> ball, bull flat etc and give the tool tip radius
[19:15:59] <Tom_itx> i've had a couple odd ones i fudged a bit on like a tapered cutter
[19:17:23] <mikebronner> ah :) so if I specify all my tools in the CAM software, I don't need to worry about the tool table in EMC2/AXIS, is that correct?
[19:17:27] <Tom_itx> then the cam software calculates the path accordingly
[19:17:51] <jdhnc> if your CAM requests tool changes, EMC will stop and prompt you to change tools
[19:17:53] <Tom_itx> ie if you're cutting a 3d surface with a bull nose cutter, it will know what the edge radius of the tool is
[19:18:29] <Tom_itx> you can enter descriptions in the tool table that match your gcode file
[19:19:28] <mikebronner> tom: without having to worry about the offsets, right? Just tool number and description?
[19:19:59] <Tom_itx> the length offset is important
[19:20:06] <Tom_itx> and i'd enter the diameter
[19:20:24] <Tom_itx> that's where your H word gets it's value1
[19:20:28] <Tom_itx> -1
[19:20:32] <mikebronner> won't that then conflict with the compensations calculated by the CAM software
[19:20:50] <Tom_itx> it depends how you set up your tooling and offsets
[19:21:05] <Tom_itx> i have a certain way i'm used to doing it and it works
[19:21:06] <Tom_itx> for me
[19:21:33] <Tom_itx> others use tool touch probes in linuxcnc and likely set the gcode file up differently
[19:21:58] <Tom_itx> you will find a way that works best for you
[19:22:25] <Tom_itx> for example, my z zero is usually set above the work surface
[19:22:26] <mikebronner> hmmm, ya, I guess I just need to get my hands dirty and discover a workflow :)
[19:22:51] <Tom_itx> but not everybody does it that way
[19:26:22] <mikebronner> I'll give this a shot, thanks for the advice Tom, jdhnc, and Jymmm
[20:45:18] <elmo40> mikebronner: you *need* to set the tool length. that is very important. if you don't then how will the CNC know where to put the spindle to make the tool cut the part?
[20:45:48] <elmo40> as Tom_itx said... everyone has a different way of doing things ;)
[20:46:05] <mikebronner> elmo: if I set all my tool parameters in my CAM software, won't that be accounted for in the g-code?
[20:46:47] <elmo40> some do everything from the bed. make the bed 0 and measure everything from it... tool length, fixture height, material height... everything. Over the years it has been the most widely used method that I have seen
[20:47:03] <elmo40> tool height is not set in the CAM. it is set on the Machine.
[20:47:52] <mikebronner> i'm probably very confused at this stage, since all I have achieved so far is to cut out the sample provided with EMC2/AXIS
[20:48:09] <mikebronner> will EMC2 alert me if there is something I didn't do right?
[20:48:33] <mikebronner> and what is the difference between tool length and tool height?
[20:48:47] <elmo40> tool configuration (ball, flat, chamfer...) the CNC does 'know' what that it... all it does it interpret G-code into a movement. D and H is to tell the machine how far to offset(compensate).
[20:49:06] <elmo40> length and height _should_ mean the same thing ;)
[20:49:55] <elmo40> but if you are talking about CAM to Machine then length is usually from the bottom of the spindle to the tip of the cutter. On the Machine Height is what you set it as (off the table for 0 or off the part for 0)
[20:51:42] <mikebronner> hmmm, i'm probably not seeing what you mean. If I home my Z-Axis to the height of the table, then the machine knows where the bit is, same if I home it to the top of the part.
[20:51:55] <elmo40> how will it know?
[20:52:11] <elmo40> if you change the drill to a ball nose, how will it know the difference in height?
[20:52:14] <elmo40> you have to tell it.
[20:52:28] <elmo40> measure it, probe it, however you do it but do it all the same way with all the tools
[20:52:40] <mikebronner> ah, now I see what you mean
[20:52:57] <elmo40> you can home the Z and then measure from the table to the tip of the tool (I've seen that method. not an accurate way but works)
[20:53:32] <mikebronner> I believe CamBam accounts for this, as it is asking me for all my tool lengths. I will have to experiment and see how it reacts in EMC2 with different bit lengths.
[20:53:48] <mikebronner> thanks for the heads up and helping me understand :)
[21:00:42] <Tom_itx> there are several zeros to keep in mind. machine zero, the fixture offset zeros and the tool length zero point or better known as the Tool length offset
[21:00:59] <Tom_itx> fixture offset zero would be like a G54
[21:01:21] <Tom_itx> also shown in your gcode but set at the machine
[21:01:46] <Tom_itx> your gcode would just say to use that offset and the machine would know where that was
[21:02:12] <mikebronner> boy, i can see it will take some time before one masters this :)
[21:02:38] <Tom_itx> it seems confusing until you've done it once or twice
[21:03:44] <mikebronner> yea, i think that's what it will take … i'll need to make some trial items and learn from that
[21:03:54] <Tom_itx> the gcode doesn't know how long the tool is that's why you specify a H word for each tool
[21:04:09] <Tom_itx> then the gcode knows where the tool tip is
[21:06:11] <Tom_itx> when i do a tool change i specify a 'T' number and a corresponding 'H' number and based on that the gcode will look up the value stored at the H word address and apply that to the gcode for that tool
[21:07:00] <mikebronner> So why is it that the CAM software can't add these values if it has them in its tool table?
[21:07:26] <Tom_itx> ok back up a sec
[21:07:38] <Tom_itx> for example i specify T1 M6
[21:07:52] <Tom_itx> then G01 z.1 H1
[21:08:13] <Tom_itx> at that point the program will look up the number stored at H1 for that tool
[21:08:25] <Tom_itx> all the gcode knows is that is the offset for that tool
[21:08:45] <Tom_itx> the machine stores the actual offset number based on how long the actual tool is
[21:09:38] <mikebronner> I see, so this works like a look-up value and references the table in the machine each time it is used
[21:09:56] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:10:21] <Tom_itx> the same applies to the x y and z values of any work offset like G54 55 56 etc
[21:11:54] <elmo40> it may sound overwhelming right now, so many offsets and all, but it will sync in ;)
[21:13:13] <mikebronner> so this means that i have to maintain two sets of tool libraries: one in CAM for shapes, sizes, etc, and another in EMC2 for length
[21:13:33] <Tom_itx> in the gcode you just tell it what tool to use and what offset your workpiece is at then the program uses the stored lookup values at those locations
[21:14:21] <Tom_itx> my cam has a tool setup page for diameter, tip shape, feeds and speeds etc to use
[21:14:45] <Tom_itx> that information is output into the gcode
[21:15:28] <elmo40> in the g-code it will, for example, plunge to Z-0.500". If you change a tool that value will still be -0.500" but since the tool is of a different length it may cut too deep or not touch at all. This is why the machine has to offset for each tool. Then it will make every tool hit the (exact) same z-0.500"
[21:16:23] <mikebronner> ah, i see … theoretically the CAM software could do it, if it would change all occurrences of Z-0.500" according to the currently installed bit
[21:16:42] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:17:10] <elmo40> but that is just insane to keep track of
[21:17:13] <Tom_itx> in fact since i don't have a tool changer on my little mill, sometimes i break the program up into separate tools
[21:17:22] <elmo40> and a b!tch to maintain!
[21:17:25] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:17:43] <elmo40> now, to add to this you also have a 'wear' offset ;)
[21:17:49] <mikebronner> hehe, ya, especially if you have to maintain the geode manually
[21:18:04] <elmo40> once you set the tool length (which is machine values) you can fine tune the tooling with wear values.
[21:51:45] <mikebronner> night guys
[22:12:37] <ssi> sweet, these SSRs are 3-12VDC control
[22:13:06] <ssi> I think I'm gonna feed 5V back down to the machine from the PC power supply so I can just sink through the relays to an FPGA pin to switch everything
[22:13:21] <ssi> they're 3-32VDC actually
[22:13:34] <ssi> the way the machine is configured originally has them all running on 12VDC
[22:14:31] <ssi> and there's one SSR that has its 120V input hot whenever the machine is hot, and the control can switch that which activates a mechanical relay which makes the 120v inputs hot on all the other SSRs
[22:17:56] <pcw> If you use common 5V on SSR+ leads you should set the FPGA I/O to open drain mode
[22:18:53] <ssi> only 2.6mA through the SSR control in the on state, fwiw
[22:19:22] <pcw> is_output, invert_output, and is_opendrain attributes on all output bits
[22:19:29] <ssi> ok
[22:19:58] <pcw> (assuming you want all to be true=on)
[22:20:05] <ssi> yea, seems reasonable :)
[22:20:41] <ssi> open drain is basically Z state?
[22:20:57] <ssi> stiff low, weak high?
[22:20:59] <ssi> something like that?
[22:22:45] <pcw> open drain means sink only
[22:23:08] <ssi> gotcha
[22:23:19] <ssi> is there still the 24mA sink limit in open drain mode?
[22:23:40] <pcw> it does drive weakly high because of the 3.3K pullups
[22:23:52] <pcw> Yes 24ma max
[22:26:22] <pcw> That reminds me of a customer using one of our 3X20s (144 I/O)
[22:26:24] <pcw> They complained when their test file shorted out the 3.3V power supply on the 3X20
[22:26:26] <pcw> I asked they what their test file did and they said, just outputs the 50 MHz clock on every pin!
[22:27:22] <pcw> so dont try to source/sink 24 mA on every pin...
[22:27:32] <ssi> heheh
[22:28:04] <ssi> well I have worst case like eight SSRs to run
[22:28:10] <ssi> at 2.6mA apiece on 5v
[22:28:18] <ssi> they flow like 7.5mA on 12V
[22:28:35] <ssi> and actually some of those are mutex
[22:28:40] <ssi> like high clutch/low clutch
[22:29:06] <ssi> and I don't think I'll be using SSRs for the coolant and spindle like the original machine did
[22:29:14] <ssi> probably talk directly to the VFDs
[22:30:47] <pcw> all the outputs at 10mA or so is probably OK also they are not all likely to change at onece
[22:31:30] <ssi> also I'm using a '42 for IO breakout
[22:31:37] <ssi> which is what, 50R serially terminated?
[22:37:02] <pcw> Yes the 7I42 has a 50 Ohm series resistor and diode clamps to 0 and 4.4V
