#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-17

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[00:55:09] <ssi> yawn
[00:58:59] <frysteev_> hi
[00:59:08] <ssi> hi
[00:59:39] <ssi> I got the cabinet gutted
[00:59:50] <ssi> used an engine hoist to get it up on a folding table on its side
[01:00:25] <ssi> it's hooked back up to 220V
[01:00:38] <ssi> was able to confirm some of the main taps off the main transformer
[01:00:38] <frysteev_> ooo
[01:00:46] <frysteev_> it ran on 220?
[01:00:54] <ssi> yea
[01:01:04] <frysteev_> lucky
[01:01:09] <frysteev_> mine is 480
[01:01:16] <ssi> well mine could be 480
[01:01:24] <ssi> the transformer has primary taps for lots of voltages
[01:02:11] <frysteev_> mine doesnt, so by the time i transformer it, i need 208, 3ph 160amp
[01:03:26] <ssi> suck
[01:03:47] <frysteev_> wire of that size is expensive
[01:03:48] <ssi> wait 160amp?
[01:03:50] <ssi> jesus
[01:03:59] <ssi> what the bloody hell for?
[01:04:36] <ssi> that's 33kw per phase ffs
[01:06:22] <frysteev_> laser wants most of it
[01:06:34] <ssi> IM FIRIN MAH LASER
[01:07:10] <ssi> question
[01:07:25] <frysteev_> ?
[01:07:26] <ssi> should I run the PC power supply off one of the wee little 115v taps off the main transformer in this thing
[01:07:34] <ssi> or should I switch it to 220v input and run it directly off line
[01:09:36] <frysteev_> well,i would run it off of the 115 tap, AND run it through some surge supressor and possibly line conditioner
[01:09:49] <ssi> sounds like work
[01:10:13] <ssi> I dunno if the 115v taps are big enough
[01:10:51] <ssi> yea I guess they probably are
[01:11:08] <ssi> I think they were fused in the original machine at like 3A
[01:11:12] <ssi> which is not quite enough
[01:11:22] <frysteev_> then run it seperatly,
[01:11:42] <frysteev_> you want to clean the power as much as youcan before any electronics
[01:11:49] <frysteev_> mototrs make lots of noise
[01:12:48] <ssi> got any suggestions on line conditioners?
[01:14:45] <frysteev_> honestly, e a good little decent ups
[01:18:12] <ssi> hrm k, I'll have to see what I can come up with
[01:52:56] <MrTrick> I'm trying to get my axes set up correctly, now that I have physical limit/home switches installed...
[01:54:08] <MrTrick> looking at linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_stepconf.html, I see that home location and home switch location aren't the same thing...
[01:54:40] <MrTrick> Is it best to set home switch location to be 0 and home location some small positive value? Or some small negative value and 0 respectively?
[02:00:37] <MrTrick> Another question - for the Z axis, is machine 0 typically the upper or the lower end of travel? For a machine with a top limit/home switch, and ~50mm of safe travel, what would the Z axis stepconf values look like? (home location, table travel, home switch location)
[02:19:22] <Valen> in practise it doesn't really matter
[02:19:29] <Valen> you never work in machine co-ords anyway
[02:19:41] <Valen> once home and limits are set you don't care about them
[02:19:42] <Thetawaves> all the dimensions on this part are off by 0.5mm
[02:19:42] <MrTrick> that's true...
[02:19:46] <Thetawaves> :(
[02:20:14] <Valen> Thetawaves: somebody has their steps per unit wrong perhaps?
[02:21:12] <Thetawaves> i should see a bigger error for longer cuts then eh?
[02:21:30] <MrTrick> tool width compensation?
[02:21:51] <mrsun> backlash ?
[02:22:36] <Thetawaves> i'll investigate all of these
[02:23:39] <Valen> Thetawaves: if its count thats wrong then yeah it'll be longer on long cuts
[02:23:51] <Valen> if its consistant then it'll be tool width of backlash
[02:24:03] <Valen> tool width is easy to rule out if your not using it lol
[02:24:39] <mrsun> ive done some stupid things like use wrong tools etc when milling then pundering why the part was bigger then it should be :P
[02:24:59] <MrTrick> hmm
[02:25:13] <MrTrick> my Y axes is hitting the limit/home switch after homing.
[02:25:16] <mrsun> i would sugest, check backlash, if none are present check the tool, the one i used last made cuts 0.3mm oversized
[02:25:25] <MrTrick> as in, jogging around allows it to hit the limit switch
[02:25:45] <Valen> home offset and range perhaps?
[02:25:48] <MrTrick> and it freaks out a little and makes me do the override dance to get it back into the right place.
[02:26:07] <MrTrick> Would home switch location -1, travel 0 -> 240 fix that?
[02:27:10] <Valen> i dunno probably
[02:27:20] <Valen> its been too long and i get them all mixed up in my head
[02:27:46] * MrTrick will see
[02:28:13] <MrTrick> hmm... why does axis keep forgetting the set jog speed? And reverting back to 192 mm/minute
[02:30:47] <Valen> you set the jog speed in one of the ini files
[02:30:51] <Valen> its not saved
[02:32:01] <MrTrick> ah, thanks.
[02:32:20] <MrTrick> hurrah - my CNC router now knows where it is.
[02:32:39] * MrTrick will be back with more stupid questions later - thanks for your help.
[02:36:04] <Valen> i wont say theres no such thing as stupid questions
[02:36:07] <Valen> but those wernt
[02:36:09] <Valen> catchya
[02:43:19] <Thetawaves> MrTrick, how do you locate your stock that you have mounted in a vise or what ever
[02:44:15] <Thetawaves> use a jig to place the material in a known location?
[02:45:03] <Thetawaves> do you have the edge of the bed calibrated with your home switches so you can just measure where it's placed?
[02:45:46] <Thetawaves> i still don't understand the process used with home switches
[03:00:08] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:06:16] <ssi> frysteev_: still here?
[03:08:20] <ssi> https://p.twimg.com/AoLGxYvCQAAmktl.jpg:large
[03:10:06] <Thetawaves> nice
[03:11:32] <ssi> it's coming along... slowly but surely :)
[03:11:39] <ssi> I was hoping to have the resolvers hooked up and resolving tonight
[03:11:42] <ssi> but it's not gonna happen
[03:11:44] <ssi> 4am already :/
[03:56:05] <Thetawaves> can anybody point me to a good set of 1/8" shank micro drill bits?
[03:56:21] <Thetawaves> google is failing me
[03:59:51] <Valen> try it in metric perhaps?
[04:01:51] <Thetawaves> what do you think about used drill bits on ebay?
[04:01:52] <Thetawaves> http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Piece-Solid-Carbide-Micro-Drill-Bit-Set-Jewelry-S4A-/160451657792?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BRTU%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D280841364695%26ps%3D54
[04:02:33] <Thetawaves> These bits were used in the production of military spec. high-tech circuit boards.
[04:02:33] <Thetawaves> These boards have extremely tight tolerances and can easily cost $30k+ an order, so we change our bits well before their usefulness has expired to maximize quality.
[04:23:53] <elmo40> Thetawaves: if they were of decent size, possibly. the problem with tiny drill bits is you can't sharpen them yourself ;)
[04:31:40] <archivist> elmo40, time you made a cnc grinder :)
[04:32:15] <elmo40> oh boy... another toy in the shop to build.
[04:32:35] <elmo40> probably worth it, though, since the Drill Doctor sucks.
[04:33:15] <archivist> I was considering adding a spindle to the mill the other day
[04:34:43] <archivist> thinking how to make a .18mod gear, one way is to grind a single point tool
[04:38:54] <elmo40> EDM? ;)
[04:40:05] <archivist> first I have to make the EDM for that
[04:43:22] <Thetawaves> elmo40, somebody reported resharpened micro drill bits were no good possibly because the heat treatment is ruined
[07:07:33] <jthornton> damm ISP is dumping everyone in my area and says we can use "dialup for a while"
[08:00:16] <Loetmichel> windows update reboot, brb
[09:05:26] <Tom_itx> jthornton so how *is* swampeast Mo?
[09:12:44] <jthornton> kinda damp at the moment
[09:12:55] <Tom_itx> rather humid here
[09:13:37] <jthornton> just cleaning up my beer kit from yesterday
[09:32:51] <Jymmm> How could I vector draw this from the command line or script? http://i43.tinypic.com/34xi7pt.jpg http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.02/ellsie1.html
[09:38:55] <jthornton> Jymmm: I can not download anything I'm on dial up
[09:39:18] <Jymmm> jthornton: It's just a image.
[09:39:58] <Tom_L> etch o schetch
[09:39:59] <Jymmm> but dialup sucks!
[09:41:36] <Jymmm> Tom_L: ?
[09:46:55] <jthornton> Jymmm: I've been waiting for 15 minutes for a web page to download
[09:47:40] <Jymmm> jthornton: You use ABP ?
[09:50:41] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I found this, but no clue on the maths involved... http://www.unc.edu/~schneidk/lampshade.jpg
[09:51:32] <Jymmm> Draw concentric 360 * (D - d) / SQRT[(D-d)^2 + 4 h^2] degree arcs with radii of D * SQRT[(D-d)^2 + 4 h^2] / (2 * (D - d)) and d * SQRT[(D-d)^2 + 4 h^2] / (2 * (D - d)). Where D is the larger diameter, d is the smaller diameter, and h is the height.
[09:51:33] <Jymmm> E.g. For the example you gave 2" diameter top, 4" diameter bottom, and 6" height. Use D = 4, d = 2, and h = 6 to find that you need to draw concentric 59.18 degree arcs with radii of 6.08" and 12.17".
[09:52:04] <Tom_itx> what are you trying to do?
[09:52:14] <Jymmm> draw a lampshade
[09:52:19] <Jymmm> from the command line
[09:52:46] <Tom_itx> a friend of mine once wrote how to draw a cone
[09:53:02] <Tom_itx> but not from the command line
[09:53:27] <Jymmm> Well, maybe a script, like I mentioned above.
[09:53:43] <Tom_itx> draw 2 arcs and connect the endpoints
[09:54:22] <Jymmm> I need to be able to have variables for the top and bottom rim and the height.
[09:54:22] <Tom_itx> same centerpoint
[09:55:04] <Tom_itx> x y i j
[09:55:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Did you look at the links I provided?
[09:55:35] <Tom_itx> the 2nd one
[09:55:37] <frysteev_> the lol cat links?
[09:56:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: might want to look at all three
[09:59:59] <jthornton> Jymmm: what is ABP?
[10:00:54] <Jymmm> jthornton: ABP == AdBlock Ples, a browser plugin that blocks most ads and other stuff. It helps pages load faster.
[10:01:03] <Jymmm> s/Ples/Plus/
[10:01:21] <jthornton> I've used it before I think but don't know my current status with it
[10:01:46] <jthornton> yuck wildblue is $80 a month
[10:02:25] <Jymmm> jthornton: In firefox, to th right of the address bar, there would be a RED stopsign with "ABP" in the middle of it.
[10:02:46] <Jymmm> Grey if it's (temp) disabled.
[10:02:46] <jthornton> must not have it...
[10:02:50] <Jymmm> k
[10:03:19] <jthornton> plus $150 to install and $220 for equipment rental
[10:03:37] <Jymmm> jthornton: zipcode?
[10:03:43] <jthornton> 63901
[10:05:53] <Jymmm> jthornton: Crap, MetroPCS is outside your area. =(
[10:09:53] <Jymmm> jthornton: There is 3G coverage in your area fwiw
[10:09:59] <Jymmm> But no 4G
[10:12:28] <jthornton> I get 4g on my phone I think...
[10:14:37] <Jymmm> jthornton: that maps are not showing any 4G in that zip, let me zoom out a biit
[10:15:29] <Jymmm> jthornton: Closest being IL, AR, and TN
[10:18:41] <Jymmm> jthornton: Verizon wireless, prepaid mobile broadband 1GB@$20/mo, 2GB@$30/mo, 5GB@$50/mo, and 10GB@$80/mo
[10:20:07] <Jymmm> plus the cost of a mobile hotspot or whatever hardware you decide upon.
[10:22:00] <Tom_itx> wireless irc hangs up alot
[10:24:28] <Jymmm> jthornton: the mobile hotspot is $270
[10:25:08] <Jymmm> and you can have up to 5 wifi connections to it
[10:25:22] <Jymmm> it's 4G, backwards compatible with 3G
[10:30:59] <jthornton> I have ATT wireless
[10:31:27] <Jymmm> jthornton: and?
[10:31:35] <jthornton> just saying
[10:32:16] <jthornton> I mean AT&T cell phone
[10:32:38] <Jymmm> jthornton: and I'm tlaking about prepaid data plan
[10:32:50] <jthornton> ok, trying to look it up
[10:36:08] <Jymmm> ATT mobile hotspot is $270 with no commitment, $70 with a 2yr data plan.
[10:36:14] * jthornton clicks on a link then wanders off for a while...
[10:38:54] <Jymmm> jthornton: ATT has never been to friendly when it comes to prepaid data-only plans.
[10:39:02] <Jymmm> s/to/too/
[10:48:26] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[10:48:32] <ssi> jthornton: so much for the $7.2 billion that the government spent on making sure everyone in the US could get broadband :P
[10:49:56] <jthornton> of our money too
[10:50:01] <ssi> yep
[10:52:11] <jthornton> Whoot! the Wit is alive...
[10:52:17] <ssi> Wit?
[10:55:23] <ssi> jthornton: https://p.twimg.com/AoLGxYvCQAAmktl.jpg:large
[10:56:37] <jthornton> Witbier
[10:56:45] <jthornton> ssi: how bit is that link?
[10:56:49] <jthornton> big
[10:57:04] <psha> jthornton: it's not big, it's large!
[10:57:18] <ssi> haha lemme check
[10:57:18] <jthornton> hi psha
[10:57:22] <psha> hi jt
[10:57:48] <jthornton> it takes me 10 minutes to load a page
[10:57:49] <ssi> 90k
[10:58:54] <jthornton> I'll click on it after this pages loads :/
[10:58:58] <ssi> hahahah
[10:59:04] <ssi> poor jt
[11:02:00] <jthornton> ha, it loaded up
[11:02:36] <jthornton> that your HNC?
[11:02:39] <ssi> yeah
[11:02:55] <ssi> i gutted the GE control; working on repopulating it with mesa hardware
[11:09:59] <jthornton> cool
[11:17:07] <ssi> so I'm gonna go to frys today and try to find a rackable shelf
[11:17:30] <ssi> thinking I'll put the computer on the shelf rather than vertical on a piece of sheet
[11:18:04] <ssi> also a cheesy little ups for line conditioning, as per frysteev_'s suggestion
[11:18:17] <ssi> and some wire to wire this beast :D
[11:18:31] <ssi> hopefully tonight I can be observing resolvers :D
[11:20:53] <ssi> anyone have any thoughts on hardware to interface a control panel?
[11:21:18] <jthornton> nice
[11:21:34] <jthornton> you mean like a pendant or just buttons and such
[11:21:52] <ssi> I want to scavenge buttons and switches from the original panel and reuse the ones that are applicable
[11:21:57] <ssi> and maybe add an MPG
[11:22:24] <ssi> I should have one free port on my 5i but I don't know if that'll be enough for a dedicated pin per button
[11:22:39] <ssi> wondering if there's a good mesa solution for that
[11:23:01] <ssi> I could direct wire the MPG for responsiveness, but the rest could be over some kind of serial
[11:23:20] <ssi> I guess I could just add a second 5i :P
[11:24:22] <pcw> 7I73 is one possibility
[11:24:42] <pcw> or 7I69
[11:25:24] <ssi> and then what, a 7i44 to break out the serial?
[11:26:06] <pcw> yes or cobble together something with just a couple RS-422 interfaces
[11:26:17] <ssi> hrm lemme ask you this...
[11:26:26] <ssi> the 7i42 has two 50 pin headers on it
[11:26:45] <ssi> can I buffer through th e7i42, but pass that port on to a 7i44 and only use one or two serial ports
[11:26:53] <ssi> and the rest of the IO get consumed via terminals on the 42?
[11:27:28] <ssi> (sorry "buffer" is not the right word there, but you catch my meaning I hope)
[11:28:33] <pcw> Probably easier to direct connect the 7I44 to the 5I23 (or just use a 1 channel 422 chip)
[11:28:38] <ssi> ok
[11:29:04] <ssi> thats fine, I oughta be able to do everything I need to do for the machine interface on one port
[11:29:08] <ssi> one port for resolvers/servos
[11:29:14] <ssi> and leaves one port for a 44
[11:29:35] <ssi> and then I could have a 69 to run hardwired panel IO, and a 73 if i decide to add a pendant :D
[11:29:40] <pcw> it might be overkill if you already have enough I/O
[11:29:50] <ssi> OVERKILL IS MY STYLE
[11:30:03] <ssi> yea I'll have to draw it up and see
[11:30:35] <pcw> so you have the resolver/analog out and 48 I/O already without using sserial
[11:30:43] <ssi> right
[11:30:53] <ssi> I need to figure out how many pins the machine control itself will consume
[11:31:11] <ssi> there's something ridiculous like 12 limit switches in the machine :P
[11:32:07] <pcw> thats probably a good thing...
[11:34:08] <ssi> yeah it is
[11:34:24] <ssi> the original control fed them with 25v
[11:34:29] <ssi> I think some of them are hall effect
[11:34:42] <ssi> haven't quite figured out how I need to deal with that yet
[11:35:50] <ssi> so the sserial cards are fast enough for mpgs to have good response?
[11:36:38] <frysteev_> i got a bunch of pci highend serial cards id love to use
[11:36:55] <ssi> frysteev_: you see the picture that I took JUST FOR YOU?
[11:37:01] <ssi> https://p.twimg.com/AoLGxYvCQAAmktl.jpg:large
[11:37:04] <ssi> k gotta run :D
[11:37:17] <frysteev_> ooo
[11:37:34] <pcw> the sserial cards that support encoders have local counters (7I73 encoders count to 50 KHz)
[11:39:06] <frysteev_> ahhh, so they are transmitting individual pulses over serial rather postirion data
[11:39:45] <pcw> yes they are sending 8 or 16 bit count values
[11:39:59] <frysteev_> cool
[11:40:44] <pcw> and the sserial driver knows their data type (count) so they get extended to 32 bits
[11:42:01] <pcw> (at the linuxCNC end)
[12:41:27] <mazafaka> heh, have bought a Rip Curl Zeitgeist on sale today, -50% ! Bought for 210 USD or so...
[12:42:39] <mazafaka> When mommy will have repaired my old 'Loap' jacket and I will have bought a video recorder for car and install it into the MotoX helmet, I'll become a new kickass!
[12:42:40] <mrsun> hmm, i should go down and try and cut my first linear bearings for bigger mill ....
[12:43:13] <mrsun> the cut will take 40 minutes tho :(
[12:43:16] <mrsun> sucks
[12:48:35] <jthornton> why are satellite internet providers so freaking vague about the pricing and services
[12:55:39] <mazafaka> jthornton: With what devide do you send to the provider?
[12:56:01] <jthornton> atm my phone line
[12:56:08] <mazafaka> If you download with the use of satellite...
[12:56:08] <jthornton> and a 56k modem
[12:56:15] <mazafaka> Oh, poor you
[13:00:44] <mazafaka> Our plant pack the detail we send all around the Russia and the world, so I put some little wood piles to home and store them in the barn.
[14:04:22] <Lucian> Hey guys!
[14:04:33] <DJ9DJ> hi
[14:05:21] <Lucian> My teacher lent me a Mastercam HASP for the weekend and I've been having issues getting mastercam generated NC files working in EMC2
[14:05:54] <Lucian> I found this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Cam_Post#Mastercam_9
[14:06:15] <JT-Shop> try a generic fanuc post processor
[14:06:47] <Lucian> Can you recommend a good one to me?
[14:07:45] <mrsun> yeey milling came out nicley, just need to find the bearings to make a full prototype then i can start making it in alu insted =)
[14:11:20] <Lucian> Emc2 wants a NGC file, which I can only make editing the NC extension in Mastercam
[14:11:43] <mrsun> Lucian, just load it anyways? :P
[14:11:46] <mrsun> and see if it works =)
[14:11:56] <mrsun> the ones i generate atm is named .tap .. tho thats not mastercam but :P
[14:12:21] <Lucian> I tried sun
[14:12:51] <Lucian> The ngc made my Z axis go way to high, I had to catch it lol
[14:16:16] <Lucian> Which...isn't very good
[14:16:52] <mrsun> hehe =)
[14:18:44] <Lucian> I miss my schools Techno router, every weekend
[14:18:52] <tensaiteki> anyone around that could help with an issue with a 5i25/7i76 combo?
[14:20:29] <JT-Shop> tensaiteki: just ask the question
[14:23:00] <tensaiteki> ok, I'm trying to connect a gecko g201x to the 7i76 but when I try to test the axis in pncconf, i don't get any motion or errors. I also don't seem to be getting any step or direction voltage on the 7i76 connector when checking with a digital multi-meter.
[14:23:37] <tensaiteki> Are there supposed to be any lit LEDs on the 5i25 and/or the 7i76?
[14:24:12] <JT-Shop> tensaiteki: that might be a pncconf problem as I know the author of pncconf does not have a 5i25 anything to test with
[14:24:41] <JT-Shop> tensaiteki: do you have field power connected?
[14:24:51] <JT-Shop> on the 7i76?
[14:26:14] <JT-Shop> iirc you should have 2 yellow leds lit on the 7i76
[14:26:17] <JT-Shop> brb
[14:26:18] <tensaiteki> no, but i have the jumper (W2) set so that it is supposed to be getting power from the host (5i25) card for the step-dir signals
[14:27:54] <JT-Shop> open your config in Axis and go to the Machine > Show Hal Configuration watch window and see if you have any 7i76 pins
[14:27:56] <ssi> back
[14:28:16] <JT-Shop> if not then you must connect field power IIRC
[14:28:34] * JT-Shop hands ssi a beer
[14:28:44] <ssi> woohoo! virtual beer! :D
[14:29:19] <tensaiteki> ok, i'll try that, brb
[14:30:06] <ssi> http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419685_812273695552_71107655_35477230_354307446_n.jpg
[14:30:12] <ssi> I bought a rackmount shelf at frys
[14:30:17] <ssi> and it came with a bag of hardware and a strawberry candy
[14:31:37] <Thetawaves> the best rack setup i ever bought was a lack series roll around end table by ikea
[14:31:54] <ssi> the back of my GE control is a standard rack
[14:32:02] <Thetawaves> coincidentally it is sized perfectly to fit 19" rack panels
[14:32:26] <Thetawaves> this was the best because it looks really slick in my living room, and it was only 30$
[14:32:32] <ssi> haha nice
[14:34:19] <mazafaka> Lucian: try HeeksCNC as well, as a freeware open-source CAM software. I am also lended with TOPSolid, Unigraphics, and MasterCAM, but I will play with these softwares only later.
[14:39:58] <JT-Shop> the only frys we have are at Eats
[14:40:03] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/coh2K.png can someone help me figure out what to connect to make unipolar 4 wires ?
[14:41:02] <Tecan> connect blue and white then black and orange ?
[14:41:23] <Tecan> that how it works ?
[14:41:23] <mrsun> Tecan, what is it you want ?
[14:41:31] <Tecan> need to make 6 wires into 4
[14:41:44] <mrsun> for a bipolar drive ?
[14:42:18] <mrsun> for serial connection then just short the common wires
[14:42:30] <mrsun> black orange and blue white
[14:42:34] <pcw> tensaiteki there should be 2 yellow LEDS illuminated on the 7I76
[14:42:34] <mrsun> like you said
[14:42:35] <pcw> the leftmost LED is powered by the local 5V (needed for the step/dir outputs and a few other things) This local 5V normally comes from the 5I25 card (P3 so W2 on the 5I25 must be UP)
[14:42:37] <pcw> the 7I76 should also be jumpered for cable power (7I76 W2 in left position)
[14:42:38] <pcw> The rightmost LED is the field I/O power indicator (You need ~12 to 28VDC on TB1 for the field I/O bits to work)
[14:43:19] <Tecan> whats a serial connection ?
[14:43:30] <mrsun> Tecan, bipolar can be connected serial or parallel
[14:43:51] <mrsun> serial gives lower amparage draw and needs higher voltage for the same speed as a parallel connected stepper
[14:44:04] <Tecan> thanks
[14:44:34] <mrsun> Tecan, is it a 8 wire motor ?
[14:45:05] <mrsun> http://techref.massmind.org/images/member/RB-ezy-Q33/4WireSeriesParallel.png
[14:45:09] <Tecan> 7 wires..
[14:45:46] <Tecan> 8
[14:45:47] <Tecan> yes
[14:45:47] <Tecan> my bad
[14:46:03] <mrsun> http://www.wimb.net/index.php?s=motion&page=52
[14:46:43] <mrsun> http://techref.massmind.org/techref/io/stepper/connections.htm
[14:46:53] <mrsun> alot of info on how to connect them on internet =)
[14:47:00] <Tecan> very nice thanks much :)
[14:47:42] <mrsun> hmm, 1.414 * rated current .... in that case im over amping my steppers badly :P
[14:48:26] <mrsun> no ... im not i guess :P
[14:48:56] <mrsun> 2.8 rated * 1.414 == 3.95A ... goodie =)
[14:52:38] <JT-Shop> pcw so the only thing you need field power for is the I/O on the 7i76?
[15:01:15] <pcw> Yes
[15:01:51] <pcw> everything else runs from cable (or local) 5V
[15:03:36] <pcw> because the field I/O is isolated from the PC it uses different (and possible isolated) power source
[15:05:41] <ssi> http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/424798_812287787312_71107655_35477306_1948232863_n.jpg
[15:05:49] <ssi> need to figure out how to mount the power supply
[15:06:07] <ssi> and how to mount the little UPS I bought in the rack... probably will just need to cut a sheet of steel and mount the UPS vertically on the back of the rack
[15:06:10] <JT-Shop> thanks again Peter
[15:06:39] <pcw> This is true of all the 12-28 V serial I/O cards (7I76,7I77, 7I66,7I70, 7I71 etc) except the 7I64
[15:06:41] <pcw> This is so theres only one isolator needed (for the serial link)
[15:07:50] <pcw> all the I/O could float at 500V if you wished (not that I would recommend this)
[15:08:44] * JT-Shop says here hold my beer and watch me float 499v
[15:09:18] <ssi> hey y'all, watch this
[15:10:15] <pcw> I hate HV. I always cringe when they test 8I20s at 400V
[15:16:37] <pcw> Its in a case to contain the shrapnel should it explode and we've never had one explode on normal testing, but we've blown one up with stupid mistake and that was pretty scary
[15:16:38] <pcw> (and theres always the chance of an assembly error causing fireworks)
[15:22:30] <JT-Shop> you test them in a blast cabinet?
[15:26:44] <pcw> Well the PS has enough output capacitance to explode a fair size chunk of PCB/Module
[15:28:23] <pcw> after exploding one near my face (hmm lets see whats wrong here)
[15:28:25] <pcw> I'm pretty gun-shy
[15:29:58] <JT-Shop> I'd bet... I don't hold fire works any more either
[15:47:01] <alex4nder> hey
[15:49:59] <mrsun> gah i cant descide on what bearing system to use, all homemade solutions feel so flimsy :/
[15:50:10] <alex4nder> for linear bearings?
[15:50:11] <mrsun> and buying ready made is expensive like hell
[15:50:14] <mrsun> alex4nder, yes
[15:50:32] <alex4nder> what about some of the cheaper 'open source' linear bearings that have come out?
[15:51:07] <mrsun> alex4nder, what are those? the only ones ive found first off isnt even close the sweden, second they had none in stock
[15:51:14] <mrsun> shipping over seas is expensive: (
[15:51:28] <mrsun> makeslide ?
[15:51:33] <mrsun> maker
[15:51:43] <alex4nder> that's one of them
[15:53:25] <mrsun> and making my own V grove bearings sucks as i need angular contact bearings
[15:56:15] <mrsun> makerslide is sold out on like everything that has with the actual makerslide to do
[15:56:27] <mrsun> and have had the "sold out" sign for weeks on stuff
[15:56:32] <mrsun> so dont even know if they are active
[16:00:59] <mrsun> alex4nder, cant find any others
[16:01:13] <alex4nder> mrsun: there're some designs with pipes and whatnot
[16:01:26] <alex4nder> I didn't pay much attention to them.
[16:01:51] <mrsun> alex4nder, and bearings facing in 90 degrees etc, yeah .. been looking at it, and designed a adjustable one that i was going to try out, but still feels very "bad" =)
[16:02:07] <alex4nder> what's the machine for?
[16:02:38] <mrsun> alex4nder, wood working
[16:02:40] <mrsun> maybe alu
[16:02:44] <alex4nder> ah
[16:04:16] <mrsun> http://i41.tinypic.com/wkkdo5.png thats how i figured
[16:04:26] <mrsun> 10mm thick alu, the slot for the bearing assembly is 5mm deep
[16:04:45] <mrsun> adjustable up and down and sidewise, supported from the top for the actual forces up and down
[16:04:48] <alex4nder> ah
[16:04:50] <mrsun> 30x30 steel profiles
[16:04:57] <mrsun> mm that is
[16:05:31] <mrsun> and skate bearings :P
[16:11:48] <alex4nder> mrsun: I have skate bearings in my taig
[16:11:54] <alex4nder> but for the screw bearings
[16:27:31] <raynerd> anyone here converted an atx pc supply to a power supply? I`ve got two, did one no problems and the other isn`t working and I don`t get why!
[16:27:37] <raynerd> both "WERE" working!
[16:27:55] <raynerd> sorry, I mean to say both were working in the computer...
[16:28:25] <raynerd> anyone ever played around with an atx supply?
[16:28:45] <cradek> there's a power-on wire, you ground it to make the thing come on
[16:29:00] <cradek> they may need some load on the 5v to run
[16:29:17] <alex4nder> yup
[16:29:25] <raynerd> yes, I was hoping someone could help me trouble shoot.
[16:29:38] <cradek> those are my troubleshooting hints :-)
[16:29:54] <raynerd> I`ve got a 47ohm resistor across +5v
[16:29:55] <alex4nder> yah, besides that.. measure everything.
[16:30:11] <raynerd> and I`ve got the brown wire connected to the orange 3.3v
[16:30:35] <cradek> that's only half a watt of load on the 5v, you may need a lot more
[16:30:53] <raynerd> it is a sand bar 47ohm 10watt
[16:31:25] <raynerd> there is a grey wire, which I`ve connected to ground via a LED
[16:31:43] <cradek> power on is green, did you connect it to black?
[16:31:57] <raynerd> there isn`t a green on my atx
[16:32:00] <alex4nder> raynerd: the power rating of a resistor doesn't change much power it dissipates.
[16:32:07] <alex4nder> +how
[16:32:29] <raynerd> other power supply is working ok with the same resistor?
[16:32:42] <raynerd> same type...branded differently but identical
[16:32:43] <cradek> what's the symptom you're trying to have us troubleshoot?
[16:33:26] <raynerd> sure...basically, it "appears" dead...fan doesn`t come on. However, the grey wire does go to 4.6v so something is happeneing.
[16:33:36] <raynerd> all the power lines are dead.
[16:34:07] <cradek> if you don't have green, which do you think is your "power on"?
[16:34:47] <raynerd> I think it is the brown wire...
[16:34:54] <raynerd> and I think the grey is power OK
[16:35:31] <raynerd> which is why I`ve gone brown to 3.3v and grey across an LED to ground as this in my opinion should gome on when the power is good!
[16:35:33] <cradek> if you can't trust the colors, perhaps try using the pinout: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_unit_%28computer%29
[16:35:55] <cradek> if "power on" is brown, you have it hooked to +3.3 which will make the psu NOT come on
[16:36:31] <raynerd> sorry, brown is Sense?
[16:36:52] <cradek> there's a nice diagram at that url
[16:40:36] <raynerd> hummm
[16:40:45] <raynerd> let me go look again...seems I should have a green :P
[16:41:15] <ssi> cradek: you have any docs on hand that list the pinout of the resolvers in the hnc?
[16:41:30] <ssi> cradek: my schemes show me which wires go to which pins on the plugblocks, but not which are sin/cos/drv
[16:41:56] <cradek> I recall guessing correctly based on how the tiny wires were braided together
[16:42:14] <cradek> note you only need to identify pairs, and which is the driver; sin/cos makes no difference in getting it working
[16:42:19] <ssi> oh I see
[16:42:38] <cradek> also consider checking the resistance of each of the pairs; the driver might be different
[16:47:21] <Jymmm> cradek: I have no clue on the maths, but do you have any idea on how I can draw a lampshade from command-line or script? http://i43.tinypic.com/34xi7pt.jpg reference: http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.02/ellsie1.html and I came across this as well http://www.unc.edu/~schneidk/lampshade.jpg reference: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=604094
[16:48:28] <Jymmm> I dont know if those formulas are even correct
[16:48:58] <cradek> what do you mean by draw with command line or script?
[16:49:40] <Jymmm> cradek: Enter on the dimensions within the script directly or via command line.
[16:49:56] <cradek> and generate ... what?
[16:49:58] <alex4nder> haha
[16:50:03] <alex4nder> do you mean you want to make g-code using some math?
[16:50:05] <cradek> gcode?
[16:50:08] <alex4nder> and plot some arcs?
[16:50:09] <Jymmm> cradek: a vector drawing
[16:50:59] <Jymmm> cradek: I'm considering postscript or svg
[16:51:34] <Jymmm> but open to other ideas as well
[16:51:51] <cradek> postscript does have circular arcs
[16:52:15] <Jymmm> If I go PS, I can just hardcode the dimensions in the file, and create a new file for each size.
[16:52:47] <cradek> yes you'd just define them at the top
[16:52:58] <Jymmm> Lamshade_$top_$bottom_$height.ps etc
[16:53:19] <cradek> /lamptop 50 def /lampbottom 100 def
[16:53:33] <Jymmm> Oh, you now PS, cool!
[16:53:37] <Jymmm> know
[16:53:44] <raynerd> Hello, sorry to vanish for a while, just went down to check exactly what is happening. The supply is coming on for a split second and then immediately cutting out.
[16:53:54] <cradek> raynerd: more load on 5v
[16:53:55] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:54:03] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: G'night
[16:54:12] <DJ9DJ> bye bye
[16:54:12] <raynerd> ok, sorry to sound thick, but how do I do that.? More resistors in series/
[16:54:14] <raynerd> ?
[16:54:24] <cradek> no, that would give you less load
[16:54:31] <raynerd> ohh
[16:54:39] <raynerd> parallel
[16:54:40] <cradek> you need a resister with lower ohm rating, or more resistors in parallel
[16:54:40] <cradek> right
[16:54:42] <Jymmm> cradek: I grabbed a copy of the BLUEBOOK and reading it now.
[16:54:55] <cradek> Jymmm: do you need to print it or what?
[16:55:27] <raynerd> as well as the 47ohm 10watt I`m using. I only have 3 more 47ohm 3 watt resistor bricks.
[16:55:28] <Jymmm> cradek: Corel can process the PS file, then I can send that to the laser directly.
[16:55:47] <cradek> can't you just write gcode? much much much easier
[16:55:53] <raynerd> cradek: what would be ideal resistor to use if I just could choose one?
[16:56:05] <Jymmm> cradek: The laser uses HPGL directly, not gcode.
[16:56:20] <cradek> raynerd: what's the psu's wattage rating on the 5v?
[16:57:00] <raynerd> current rating is 8A I think, don` know what wattage
[16:57:47] <raynerd> P=VI so is the power rating 5 x 8 = 40W ?
[16:57:55] <raynerd> :-S
[16:58:21] <Jymmm> cradek: I'll take the time to learn PS to do this, but could you take a look at the maths in the last two links and see if those are correct and what I need?
[16:59:02] <cradek> then you might want to burn about an amp, so maybe 5 ohm, 5+ watt
[16:59:54] <cradek> http://www.unc.edu/~schneidk/lampshade.jpg looks like it's probably useful, but I didn't verify it
[16:59:59] <raynerd> Ok, bugger. I think I have a 10ohm 5w
[17:00:30] <cradek> raynerd: try that one then
[17:00:53] <Jymmm> cradek: Yes, that's from the 3rd link:
[17:00:53] <Jymmm> Draw concentric 360 * (D - d) / SQRT[(D-d)^2 + 4 h^2] degree arcs with radii of D * SQRT[(D-d)^2 + 4 h^2] / (2 * (D - d)) and d * SQRT[(D-d)^2 + 4 h^2] / (2 * (D - d)). Where D is the larger diameter, d is the smaller diameter, and h is the height.
[17:00:53] <Jymmm> E.g. For the example you gave 2" diameter top, 4" diameter bottom, and 6" height. Use D = 4, d = 2, and h = 6 to find that you need to draw concentric 59.18 degree arcs with radii of 6.08" and 12.17".
[17:01:17] <cradek> sounds like a pain. glad I didn't have to derive it.
[17:01:51] <cradek> Jymmm: hpgl or hpgl2?
[17:02:07] <cradek> hpgl2 has circular arcs
[17:02:11] <Jymmm> cradek: Heh, well I'm trying to do my homework here. I NEVER EVER in my wildest ideas ever thought something so simle as a lmapshade would be so complex.
[17:02:19] <cradek> might be easiest to generate that directly (with python or something)
[17:03:28] <Jymmm> cradek: Probably HPGL/2, but I still need to go through Corel as the print driver creates the settings for the laser (like a post processor)
[17:03:54] <cradek> ok, then do postscript I guess
[17:09:42] <Jymmm> cradek: Referencing this drawing of a lampshade, the bottom line is perfectly horizontal. In PS's "current page", do I want to start points in the lower left corner as that would have a large arc go right outside the bounderies, or make the left or top points of the lampshade be perfectly vertical, and centered vertically as well, so the bottom arc of the lampshade will grow to the max "current page" area?
[17:09:46] <Jymmm> http://www.unc.edu/~schneidk/lampshade.jpg
[17:10:24] <cradek> good question. fitting it onto the "page" is going to be the hard part, since the center of the arcs will almost surely be off the page.
[17:12:38] <raynerd> cradek: can you please explain what calculation we are trying to do here to actually decide on a resistor value?
[17:12:54] <Jymmm> cradek: You said that this would be easier in gcode. Is there a gcode to vector format converter? PS, SVG, DWG, etc
[17:13:52] <cradek> raynerd: I guessed you might want to have like 10% of the max rated current, and I used ohms law
[17:14:45] <raynerd> ok, I was wrong. The total output is 250w
[17:14:55] <alex4nder> haha
[17:15:00] <raynerd> and the 5v output is rated 25A max!
[17:15:14] <Jymmm> E
[17:15:15] <Jymmm> _____
[17:15:15] <Jymmm> I * R
[17:15:28] <alex4nder> I have that tattooed on my ass.
[17:15:39] <Jymmm> TMI
[17:15:45] <raynerd> lol, nice!
[17:15:45] <alex4nder> TMI would be pictures.
[17:16:18] <raynerd> so you thinking I should be drawing about 2.5A with this resistor?]
[17:17:00] <raynerd> so V=IR, R = V/I , R = 5/2.5 = 2 ohm
[17:20:25] <raynerd> is that calc correct?
[17:21:12] <raynerd> only, lowest I have is 10ohm and same occurs. I do however have a number of different resistors...what is the calculation for working them out in parallel
[17:21:14] <cradek> yes but you'll need 12.5+ W
[17:21:42] <alex4nder> I've never had to jump through this many hoops with a power supply before.
[17:21:47] <cradek> maybe it's bad
[17:21:49] <alex4nder> yah
[17:22:35] <raynerd> it was a runner when it came off the PC so if it is bad, I`ve made it this way! :-(
[17:23:19] <Jymmm> 5V / 2.5A == 2 Ohms @ 20Watts
[17:23:41] <raynerd> like I say, other is working with 47ohm resistor
[17:23:42] <Jymmm> (standard wattage value)
[17:24:06] <raynerd> Grrrr! The fan comes on for a split second and then it dies!
[17:24:15] <raynerd> can`t see where there could be a short though
[17:24:32] <Jymmm> raynerd: ohm it out
[17:26:36] <raynerd> I don`t think I fully understand it all enough to...which if I`m being honest, was why I came on here.
[17:26:51] <raynerd> I thought it was a short rather than a issue with the load
[17:27:34] <Jymmm> raynerd: Disconnect EVERYTHING from the power supply. Does it shut down immediately?
[17:28:22] <raynerd> yes, because it is dead immediately after the intial boot up when the fan does about 10 spins
[17:28:44] <Jymmm> raynerd: Huh? Is this a PC power supply?
[17:28:51] <raynerd> yes ATX
[17:29:09] <Jymmm> raynerd: did you short the GRN wire to any BLK one?
[17:29:32] <raynerd> ahh one second.
[17:29:47] <Jymmm> assuming it's not connected to a PC that is.
[17:30:18] <Jymmm> verify that you do NOT have more than one GRN wie
[17:30:21] <Jymmm> wire
[17:31:02] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm about to start cutting wood, which is new to me
[17:31:22] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: it comes from trees.
[17:31:32] <seb_kuzminsky> i bet it doesnt act much like Al
[17:31:44] <ssi> sawdust sucks in a machine shop... it mixes with the oil and makes nasty sludge
[17:32:03] <seb_kuzminsky> this is in a friend's woodworking shop, not much oil around
[17:32:07] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: Yeah, dont mix sawdust with oil
[17:32:08] <ssi> ok that's good :)
[17:32:22] <ssi> sawdust + oil does make the best damn firestarter ever though :P
[17:32:25] <ssi> it's like napalm
[17:32:29] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: Got Fire Extinguisher?
[17:32:47] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: Not cutting MDF are you?
[17:32:56] <seb_kuzminsky> 3/4" ply with a 5/8" diameter 2-flute endmill, 300 sfm & 0.0015 feed/tooth sound about right?
[17:33:04] <seb_kuzminsky> that comes out to 1833 rpm and 5.5 ipm
[17:33:15] <seb_kuzminsky> yes there's a fire extinguiser within hand's reach ;-)
[17:33:21] <ssi> seems like you could have a higher chipload in wood
[17:33:24] <ssi> but maybe I'm talking out my ass
[17:33:32] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: you're going to try cuting the 3/4" in one pass?
[17:33:34] <seb_kuzminsky> for a 3/4" deep cut?
[17:33:35] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: turn the spindle as fast as it will go
[17:33:41] <raynerd> Jymmm: OK, I`m not totally clear what you mean. The black wires have continuity with the earth of the plug
[17:33:46] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: it goes up to 18k rpm
[17:33:51] <cradek> perfect
[17:34:19] <seb_kuzminsky> i got my numbers from this feed & speed calculator: http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[17:34:22] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: a spiral upcut but will keep the cut clear of sawdust too.
[17:34:34] <Jymmm> s/but/bit/
[17:35:12] <seb_kuzminsky> 18k rpm would mean an sfm 5x higher than recommended for wood, according to some random pdf i found on the internet
[17:35:14] <cradek> you want thousands of sfm
[17:35:22] <seb_kuzminsky> ok wow
[17:35:36] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[17:35:37] <cradek> think of the diameter of a spinning table saw blade
[17:35:39] <Jymmm> raynerd: On your PC PS, the 24pin connector has one GREEN wire, yes?
[17:35:52] <ssi> should be pin 16
[17:36:00] <seb_kuzminsky> 2750 sfm gives 16,800 rpm and 50(!) ipm
[17:36:07] <cradek> yes that's more like what you want
[17:36:09] <raynerd> Jymm, - no it doesn`t
[17:36:16] <Jymmm> raynerd: look agian
[17:36:18] <seb_kuzminsky> little different than i'm used to on the bridgeport :-)
[17:36:32] <cradek> yep!
[17:36:40] <Jymmm> raynerd: if you dont find it, then post a pic.
[17:36:59] <seb_kuzminsky> and 3/4" depth-of-cut in ply seems ok on a 5/8" diameter endmill?
[17:37:05] <seb_kuzminsky> or should i gnaw down?
[17:37:06] <ssi> sure
[17:37:36] <ssi> routers do it all the time
[17:37:37] <cradek> wikipedia says wood routers spin 13k to 24krpm
[17:37:42] <cradek> you'll be fine, just clamp the hell out of the work
[17:37:43] <ssi> yea sounds about right
[17:37:54] <cradek> if you go too slow, your tool will go dull VERY fast
[17:38:01] <raynerd> Jymmm - can I pm you or I am happy to keep posting in here.
[17:38:19] <Jymmm> raynerd: post the pic here
[17:38:23] <raynerd> there is no green other than the green earth directly from the plug input
[17:38:24] <cradek> my understanding is the high sfm is so the cutting edge has moved on before the wood springs back to rub on it
[17:38:26] <raynerd> ok, one sec.
[17:38:35] <seb_kuzminsky> ok i see
[17:38:50] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm using all the clams i can find in his shop :-)
[17:38:58] <ssi> mmm, clams
[17:39:50] <cradek> Jymmm: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/lampshade.ps
[17:40:03] <cradek> Jymmm: a little starting point for you, if you're new to ps
[17:40:50] <seb_kuzminsky> the shuttlexpress jog pendant finally came in handy, i put it on a 10' long usb extension cable and it reaches from one end of the machine to the other :-)
[17:41:19] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: take pictures, this all sounds interesting
[17:42:03] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: have you used a hand-operated wood router before? think of how fast you move it - probably more than an inch per second
[17:42:26] <seb_kuzminsky> i've never used a hand router...
[17:42:26] <Jymmm> cradek: Thanks
[17:42:34] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: and yes - get the tool in, don't dilly-dally, cut and get the tool out
[17:42:39] <seb_kuzminsky> if i don't post a movie in 30 minutes, call the paramedics ;-)
[17:42:40] <cradek> never let it rub
[17:42:45] <raynerd> the supply is a MPT-250 by CRS if it helps. My camera battery is low BUT I will take pics..just be a few mins
[17:42:54] <raynerd> there is a brown grey...all the usuals but no green
[17:43:00] <cradek> haha
[17:44:48] <cradek> (I'm sad that it strikes me that doing calculations in postscript is less awkward than doing it in gcode)
[17:44:55] <ssi> haha
[17:49:24] <raynerd> OK, here is the supply
[17:49:26] <raynerd> http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/supplyprob1.JPG
[17:49:30] <raynerd> http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/supplyprob2.JPG
[17:49:32] <raynerd> http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/supplyprob3.JPG
[17:49:49] <raynerd> pictures 2 and 3 show the connector block I`ve chopped off, both sides, showing no green wire.
[18:05:15] <seb_kuzminsky> that worked great, thanks guys!!
[18:05:46] <cradek> yay!
[18:08:32] <raynerd> did these pictures do anything for anyone?
[18:08:49] <raynerd> or was it just to try and prove that I had a green that I had missed :p
[18:15:05] <raynerd> Oh,I am such a giant arse
[18:15:10] <cradek> Jymmm: download lampshade.ps again
[18:20:44] <cradek> Jymmm: I printed and cut it out, and it measures right
[18:21:45] <cradek> well, a little small (5-10%?) but I bet that's the printer or print driver scaling it to fit in the margins
[18:23:26] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agYSpjcThHc
[18:23:31] <ssi> resolver outputs on the scope
[18:23:54] <ssi> but none of the values change in hal :/
[18:23:55] <cradek> yay!
[18:24:01] <cradek> not yay!
[18:24:04] <ssi> hahah
[18:24:29] <ssi> also, I only get scope output if linuxcnc is running
[18:24:40] <ssi> I shut it down and ran halrun and loaded the firmware, and nothing happened on the scope
[18:25:02] <cradek> I'm not sure what kicks off the signal generation
[18:25:19] <cradek> did you add hm2 funcs to threads and do halcmd start?
[18:25:27] <ssi> hrm no
[18:25:36] <ssi> I haven't really messed with halrun much before
[18:27:06] <ssi> anyway, I dunno if I just don't have things wired right in hal, but I feel like I should see something on the raw resolver pins
[18:27:12] <ssi> but I don't
[18:27:14] <cradek> yeah, seems like you should.
[18:27:14] <ssi> velocity is the only thing that does anything, and it behaves strangely
[18:27:23] <ssi> like, it'll say -3500
[18:27:28] <ssi> and sorta jump around that point a little bit
[18:27:31] <ssi> and if I turn the screw, it'll change
[18:27:37] <ssi> and say maybe 1600
[18:27:55] <ssi> I need to go back and reread the 7i49 manual I guess
[18:28:00] <ssi> see if there's anything I overlooked
[18:28:00] <cradek> are you getting an amplitude out of your resolver that the 7i49 wants?
[18:28:10] <cradek> it might be picky about amplitude
[18:28:17] <ssi> I think pcw said I need 1v rms
[18:28:18] <ssi> 2.8 p-p
[18:28:27] <ssi> I didn't measure it, but I can
[18:28:32] <cradek> I'd
[18:29:16] <ssi> brb
[18:30:54] <cradek> yay the 7i49 manual has a drawing with the holes dimensioned!
[18:31:03] <cradek> he listens to us whiners.
[18:34:14] <ssi> haha
[18:34:21] <ssi> ok so max observed amplitude is 11.4v
[18:34:40] <ssi> that's what, 2.4V RMS?
[18:36:27] <cradek> so it's way too high?
[18:36:31] <ssi> I guess so
[18:37:04] <cradek> that seems important I think
[18:37:15] <ssi> Default drive voltage is approximately 2V RMS which is suitable for most resolvers. The sine and cosine inputs expect an analog signal level of approximately 1V RMS, so a 2V RMS drive voltage will use the full A-D input range with 2:1 ratio resolvers.
[18:37:29] <ssi> For other resolver ratios, the drive voltage can be lowered.
[18:37:37] <ssi> I think he said you can't change the drive voltage from hal
[18:37:42] <ssi> might need to build a new bitfile to do that
[18:37:50] <cradek> ugh
[18:37:59] <cradek> no jumpers?
[18:38:00] <ssi> but maybe going to 1:1 will solve it
[18:38:04] <ssi> no I don't think so
[18:38:38] <ssi> also I need to get some shielded twisted pair cable
[18:38:45] <Jymmm> cradek: LOL, I saw this and thought is was just example entries. I didn't realize that is actually drew that lampshade! /r D d sub dup mul h dup mul 4 mul add sqrt d mul D d sub 2 mul div def
[18:39:03] <ssi> I'm making the jump from the plug block to the 7i49 with 22ga stranded hookup that I twisted manually
[18:39:08] <ssi> but it's only about 3"
[18:39:15] <cradek> did you redownload recently? I think it's done.
[18:39:31] <Jymmm> cradek: me?
[18:39:40] <cradek> yes
[18:39:47] <Jymmm> 2m ago
[18:40:14] <cradek> ok
[18:40:24] <cradek> so you should see the shape
[18:40:49] <Jymmm> cradek: Yes, corel renders it perfectly
[18:41:40] <ssi> cradek: there's a jumper on the card to make the last three channels use a 1/2 drive reference level
[18:41:52] <ssi> cradek: I'm gonna see if I have enough cable length to plug into one of those and see how it looks
[18:42:05] <cradek> half sounds useful!
[18:42:08] <frysteev_> ola
[18:42:16] <Jymmm> cradek: Oh, wow... BIG difference from the initial one. tyvm
[18:42:42] <cradek> welcome, thought it might be too much to learn at once.
[18:43:19] <frysteev_> ola geks
[18:43:22] <cradek> if it gets over 90 degrees it'll be cut off...
[18:43:23] <frysteev_> er geeks
[18:43:50] <cradek> you could move the origin over.
[18:44:12] <Jymmm> cradek: Here is how corel renders it (with font substition) http://i43.tinypic.com/22mj9.jpg
[18:45:52] <Jymmm> cradek: Yeah, I'm going to try and still learn it as I need to add the ability to create glue tabs and a "mid height width thing" that I can deal with down the road a bit.
[18:46:41] <Jymmm> cradek: do you think I should work on vertical centering after it's rendered the initial shape, or before hand?
[18:49:43] <cradek> figuring out how to center it is kind of hard - are you sure you need to?
[18:50:17] <Jymmm> cradek: I guess not, I can group, copy, and rotate/nest in corel easily enough.
[18:50:29] <cradek> yay, the rendering looks just like evince
[18:50:40] <Jymmm> evince?
[18:50:45] <cradek> ubuntu's ps viewer
[18:51:14] <Jymmm> Oh, The funny thing is corel did it as two objects, let me post another pic...
[18:51:17] <ssi> cradek: https://p.twimg.com/AoOfEUoCQAENuQb.jpg:large
[18:52:21] <cradek> does that mean 1v/div? still way too high then isn't it?
[18:52:28] <ssi> yea I think it's still like 2V rms
[18:52:40] <ssi> it's 5.6V p-p
[18:52:41] <Jymmm> cradek: http://i44.tinypic.com/dptfuh.jpg
[18:52:48] <cradek> ok I see that now (fancy digital scopes!)
[18:52:58] <cradek> Jymmm: ??
[18:52:58] <ssi> yea :)
[18:53:06] <ssi> I bought that scope on ebay for a song because it didn't work
[18:53:11] <ssi> replaced all its caps, good as new
[18:53:14] <cradek> yay
[18:53:21] <Jymmm> cradek: I was just showing how corel rendered it as two curves is all.
[18:53:25] <cradek> nice gamble
[18:53:36] <ssi> yea I bought two at the same time
[18:53:37] <cradek> Jymmm: it IS two curves, because I think arcs only go counterclockwise
[18:53:42] <ssi> the other ones' a TDS320, two channel
[18:53:47] <ssi> and it worked out of the box
[18:53:50] <Jymmm> cradek: Ah, ok.
[18:53:53] <cradek> Jymmm: or maybe I'm on crack, I dunno
[18:53:53] <Jymmm> weird
[18:54:09] <Jymmm> cradek: living up to your nick huh?
[18:54:29] <ssi> I wish pcw was around... he'd probably have some insight to help me sort this out
[18:54:30] <cradek> > The arc is generated by sweeping a line segment of length r, and tied at the point (x-coord y-coord), in a counter-clockwise direction from an angle ang1 to an angle ang2.
[18:54:43] <cradek> ssi: he ping out recently, must have connectivity trouble
[18:55:09] <Jymmm> cradek: Oh, gotcha. I haven't even gotten to the PS Ref Manual yet. Still on the bluebook
[18:55:24] <cradek> I ended up here to see how to do an arc: http://www.tailrecursive.org/postscript/operators.html
[18:56:35] <Jymmm> cradek: What Im a bit confused on is how the side lines were created at the proper angle. But maybe I just need to break apart the math a bit first.
[18:56:43] <ssi> so either I'm doing something dumb, or my resolvers are overdrive
[18:57:02] <ssi> I need to measure the drive level
[18:57:16] <Jymmm> cradek: so, these were the correct formulas? http://www.unc.edu/~schneidk/lampshade.jpg
[18:57:33] <cradek> yes that jpg is the only thing I used
[18:57:52] <Jymmm> cradek: Ok, cool.
[18:58:14] <cradek> in the postscript, rx and ry give rectangular x and y coordinates, given radius/angle
[18:58:32] <cradek> so you get lines at the right angles if you change only radius
[18:59:01] <Jymmm> ok. Let me play with it some and try to get a better perspective.
[19:01:54] <Jymmm> cradek: Oh, If I wanted to add 1/4" glue tab, what one variable would I change to do so?
[19:02:14] <Jymmm> cradek: Like 'U' here http://i43.tinypic.com/34xi7pt.jpg
[19:02:16] <cradek> I don't know what you mean by 1/4" glue tab
[19:02:30] <Jymmm> cradek: Like 'U' here http://i43.tinypic.com/34xi7pt.jpg
[19:02:44] <cradek> ummm
[19:03:34] <cradek> you can only approximate that unless you get really fancy
[19:04:05] <Jymmm> cradek: so, easier to just add .25" to r and R ?
[19:04:32] <cradek> an approximation would be to subtract .25 from d, add .25 to D, and tweak theta to be ... a bit bigger
[19:05:21] <Jymmm> ok, I'll play around, thank you again, much appreciated!!!
[19:06:12] <frysteev_> you are welcome Jymmm
[19:06:14] <cradek> you could find the theta increase that gives you .25" at halfway between d and D, which I think is .25 * (d+D)/4 RADIANS but postscript uses degrees, you'll have to convert
[19:06:40] <cradek> conversion is *180/pi
[19:07:05] <Jymmm> is pi a constant in PS ?
[19:07:07] <cradek> notice your glue tab will be a bit short at one end and a bit long at the other
[19:08:10] <cradek> I don't think it is, not sure
[19:08:25] <Jymmm> ok, I'll look it up. have the manual open
[19:13:02] <ssi> cradek: ok so the "standard" drive level that the '49 produces is 3V p-p, and the "1/2" drive level is 1.44V p-p
[19:13:21] <ssi> and I get a max waveform on the sin/cos lines of 11.4V on the former and 5.6V on the latter
[19:13:37] <ssi> so it's like my resolvers are 1:4 or something :P
[19:14:45] <Jymmm> cradek: Eeeeesh http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wizards.de%2F~frank%2Fpi.ps&ei=TyZlT4GkNIXRiALrqLyiDw&usg=AFQjCNFak-0_DkdNPNCLtvPBX9dOMxaZxg
[19:15:04] <Jymmm> www.wizards.de/~frank/pi.ps
[20:11:43] <Jymmm> 'Big Bang Theory' Brings Stephen Hawking on as Guest Star April 5th - http://tv.yahoo.com/news/big-bang-theory-brings-stephen-hawking-guest-host-002950791.html
[20:30:19] <pcw_> ssi: what is your scale value? if you use a normal encoder scale you wont see much movement
[20:30:20] <pcw_> that is the demo files have a scale of ~80000 but the resolver scale needs to be something like 0.2
[20:34:13] <Jymmm> cradek: Just came across this, dont know if it's of any use to anyone though http://ferret.pmel.noaa.gov/Ferret
[20:57:42] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, even after they made fun of him on the show?
[21:04:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It's a show, not RL
[21:05:06] <ssi> pcw_: aw shit could it be something as simple as scale?
[21:05:20] <ssi> pcw_: I'm having a hard time getting the sin/cos signals to 1V rms
[21:05:35] <ssi> pcw_: on the 2:1 drive channels, they're like 11.6V peak to peak at max amplitude,
[21:05:41] <ssi> pcw_: on the 1:1 channels, they're 5.6V peak to peak
[21:19:50] <pcw_> well it wont wont right until the inputs are scaled right
[21:19:52] <pcw_> what does the drive signal measure P-P?
[21:22:14] <pcw_> s/wont wont/wont work/
[21:29:16] <ssi> aoeuaoeu
[21:29:41] <ssi> sry
[21:29:59] <ssi> drive signal is approx 3v p-p on the 2:1 ports, and 1.44V on the 1:1 ports
[21:30:46] <ssi> and here's what one of the sin/cos signals looks like on the 1:1 port
[21:30:47] <ssi> http://p.twimg.com/AoOfEUoCQAENuQb.jpg:large
[21:32:38] <pcw_> So the outputs are way too high, so much for the standard 2-1 resolver, these look like 1-4
[21:33:00] <ssi> yeah
[21:33:53] <pcw_> I probably should make some high input signal 7I49 models
[21:34:21] <ssi> to be clear, that's measured across the +sin/-sin terminals
[21:34:25] <ssi> which I assume is what you expect
[21:34:42] <pcw_> yes differentially
[21:35:04] <pcw_> that really the only way (they are floating)
[21:35:08] <ssi> yeah
[21:36:01] <pcw_> Just to verify that its not a resonance problem or something, can you try setting the frequency to 4800 Hz?
[21:36:18] <pcw_> (default would be 9600 Hz)
[21:36:29] <ssi> oke I can try it
[21:36:32] <ssi> I'm assuming I can set that via hal
[21:36:54] <pcw_> yes
[21:38:00] <pcw_> Ive seen another system with high output resolvers so I should make a 4-1 version
[21:39:03] <ssi> hm2_5i23.0.resolver.excitation-khz
[21:39:05] <ssi> that's the one, eh
[21:40:43] <frysteev_> ssi is full of exhitation
[21:40:53] <ssi> I'm very excitable
[21:41:02] <ssi> frysteev_: you're supposed to be oer here helping me get these resolvers working!
[21:41:23] <frysteev_> haha and you are where exactly?
[21:42:01] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agYSpjcThHc
[21:42:06] <ssi> oh physically?
[21:42:07] <ssi> atlanta
[21:43:39] <frysteev_> haha
[21:43:56] <frysteev_> im in toronto so no can do
[21:44:04] <ssi> should I come fetch you?
[21:44:12] <frysteev_> yes,
[21:44:16] <frysteev_> and bring beer
[21:44:22] <ssi> sounds like a plan
[21:47:54] <ssi> ok I'm gonna go try 4800hz now, brb
[21:50:44] <pcw_> Until we make a 7I49 version for high output resolvers probably best thing is to divide the sine/cos signals by 4 with some
[21:50:46] <pcw_> matched resistors (My thinking is that this is better for noise immunity than reducing the drive, but the disadvantage is that the sin/cos divides must match)
[21:51:45] <frysteev_> im excited the 7149 is working with emc!
[21:52:27] <ssi> bleh
[21:52:39] <ssi> I dunno if I have any 1%
[21:53:04] <ssi> what sort of impedance should I be looking for?
[21:53:07] <pcw_> (its worse, 1% is not good enough)
[21:53:43] <ssi> I guess trimpots'd be the way to go
[21:54:15] <ssi> how much effort is it to make the high-output firmware?
[21:54:47] <pcw_> (abut only the sin/cos matching is important so if you
[21:54:49] <pcw_> have a bunch of 1% resistors you could match them,
[21:54:54] <pcw_> assuming you have a good meter
[21:55:30] <ssi> yea I have a good meter, but I don't have the 1%'s
[21:55:34] <pcw_> Its possible t do that but with such a disparity its better to change the inputs
[21:55:45] <ssi> I could try to match a bunch of 10%s but it's a crapshoot
[21:55:58] <pcw_> and they will be drifty
[21:56:31] <ssi> i'm still trying to figure out how to change the drive freq
[21:56:47] <ssi> the param is 10 by default
[21:56:57] <ssi> tried setting it to 5 via the hal configuration screen in axis, didn't seem to work
[21:57:11] <pcw_> hm2_5i23.0.resolver.excitation-khz 4800
[21:57:21] <pcw_> setp
[21:57:49] <pcw_> oh thats right 4.8 Khz
[21:58:23] <ssi> default was 10, but it measures as 9600k
[21:58:29] <ssi> er 9600hz rather
[21:58:37] <pcw_> so 4.8
[22:00:12] <pcw_> Oh OK maybe the driver just sets the nominal values so 10 will get you 9.6 KHz on a 5I23
[22:00:16] <ssi> k so it's set no 4.8 in my .hal file; in axis hal configuration watch it shows up as 5
[22:00:21] <ssi> but I still get 9.6khz on the scope
[22:00:55] <pcw_> what version LinuxCNC?
[22:01:01] <ssi> 2.6 something
[22:01:18] <ssi> built off master as of a couple evenings ago
[22:02:08] <pcw_> I wonder if theres something from 2.5 not merged (I have been testing with 2.5)
[22:03:54] <ssi> so the other thing that's odd
[22:04:06] <ssi> is the only pin in hal that's responsive to the resolvers is the velocity
[22:04:14] <ssi> and the velocity seems to behave more like angle or position
[22:07:01] <ssi> I can try to swap to the 2.5 tree
[22:08:51] <pcw_> I'll probably have to check into this on Monday
[22:08:53] <pcw_> (though without good levels, there are no guarantess of anything)
[22:08:54] <pcw_> but that does sound familiar... what is the bitfile name?
[22:09:09] <ssi> rmsvss6_8.bit
[22:09:18] <ssi> it's the one that I got off freeby like two days ago
[22:09:59] <alex4nder> WOOO ST. PATRICK'S DAY
[22:11:29] <ssi> pcw_: is there somewhere I can get the sources to these bitfiles so I can grab webpack and start poking around getting familiar with them?
[22:12:31] <ssi> frysteev_: I hate blazing new trails ;)
[22:12:55] <pcw_> sure download the 5I23 zipfile from Mesa
[22:15:20] <ssi> it has the resmod stuff in there too I presume?
[22:15:41] <pcw_> Sounds like the 7I49 will have to be adjusted for this type of resolver anyway
[22:15:44] <CareBear\> do they use vhdl or verilog?
[22:15:54] <pcw_> vhdl
[22:16:00] <frysteev_> oh you are using the pci card?
[22:16:08] <pcw_> yes it has eveything
[22:19:44] <pcw_> but I did find a problem in one of the resolver PIN_XXXX.vhd files so it may be that that bit file is suspect
[22:19:48] <pcw_> (the funny velocity sounds like the same problem) Like I said this probably has to wait till Monday
[22:19:48] <pcw_> and you have the choice of making some dividers or having us modify the 7I49
[22:25:12] <ssi> modify physically?
[22:25:47] <pcw_> Yes change .1% resistors
[22:33:43] <frysteev_> talk about technical support
[22:37:43] <pcw_> Well since this is a common machine it would be good to have a 7I49 version thats suited to the resolvers in the Hardinge
[22:38:03] <frysteev_> makes sence
[22:38:32] <frysteev_> so it would probably be a good idea to do more research on my reoslvers before ordering a 7149?
[22:38:32] <ssi> pcw_: we may not be as far off as I thought
[22:38:48] <ssi> with 1Vrms drive, I'm getting 1.54Vrms max sin
[22:39:03] <ssi> with the 1/2 drive, I'm getting 744mVrms
[22:40:12] <pcw_> where did the 11.6V come from?
[22:40:21] <ssi> I'm honestly not sure
[22:41:14] <pcw_> 744mv is about 2V P-P on scope?
[22:41:33] <ssi> 2.08
[22:41:37] <pcw_> (I dont trust most voltmeters at 10 KHz)
[22:41:50] <ssi> it's on scope
[22:41:53] <ssi> my digital scope measures
[22:42:02] <ssi> showing 2.08v p-p, .744v rms
[22:42:20] <ssi> on the 2:1 port, it's about 4v p-p
[22:42:24] <ssi> 1.54Vrms
[22:43:06] <pcw_> OK so its roughly 1:1
[22:43:29] <ssi> so I'm guessing the resolver is basically a rotary transformer?
[22:44:09] <frysteev_> i think so
[22:44:33] <pcw_> yes (with 2 secondaries at 90 mechanical/magnetic shaft degrees apart)
[22:44:42] <ssi> right
[22:44:42] <ssi> ok here
[22:44:43] <ssi> http://p.twimg.com/AoPUJBiCMAAcWmd.jpg:large
[22:45:31] <frysteev_> did you find my scope leads?
[22:46:05] <ssi> so in that picture, top trace (ch1) is drive, bottom trace is sin
[22:46:21] <ssi> but I just hooked up ch1 to cos, and now they're cycling as high as 1.6Vrms
[22:46:23] <ssi> so I dunno wtf
[22:47:37] <ssi> yea 4.56V p-p, 1.68Vrms
[22:47:40] <ssi> on half drive
[22:47:45] <ssi> so that's where the big numbers were coming from before
[22:47:54] <ssi> and I dunno if that's my scope acting up or what
[22:49:08] <ssi> back on the 2:1 drive, I get 9V p-p, 3.2rms
[22:49:10] <ssi> dammit
[22:51:28] <pcw_> how is the scope connected? is is across the SINE/COS pins? (sine1-gnd, sine2 -scope input)
[22:53:24] <ssi> yeah, the probes have their own ground clips, and I'm measuring across each signal
[22:53:31] <pcw_> do not connect the scope ground to either drive signal!
[22:53:32] <ssi> clipped to sine-, probe on sine+
[22:57:25] <pcw_> You can measure the sine/cos between the pins with the scope because they are floating
[22:57:27] <pcw_> if you do this with the drive (excitation) you will short the outputs
[22:58:14] <pcw_> so do not connect the scope ground to either excitation output pins
[22:58:50] <pcw_> this may explain low outputs
[23:00:29] <ssi> oh I see, that explains why when I try to measure drive and sin at the same time, the signals appear reasonable
[23:00:52] <ssi> but when I measure sin and cos at the same time, or one or the other, they're too big
[23:01:55] <ssi> but hm, that shouldn't be a problem if the scope probe is floated I'd think...
[23:02:14] <ssi> there may be an input menu option to float the scope ground, I'll have to look
[23:03:04] <pcw_> at 10KHz you need a differential input
[23:03:18] <frysteev_> pcw_ seems to know his cookies!
[23:03:30] <ssi> I'm sure he does
[23:03:30] <ssi> I just pretend
[23:03:54] <pcw_> (you cant really expect the op amp to drive your scope ground around)
[23:04:09] <ssi> well no, not if it's not floated I wouldn't
[23:04:58] <ssi> ok so riddle me this
[23:05:15] <ssi> if the bitfile were working correctly, but my sin/cos levels were above the 1Vrms
[23:05:20] <ssi> what would the behavior be?
[23:05:32] <ssi> signals would sorta work correctly, but with poor resolution?
[23:06:46] <pcw_> Well I will test/verify /fix the bitfile on Monday
[23:06:47] <pcw_> if the levels were too high it migh just be very lumpy
[23:08:20] <ssi> as far as swapping out the resistors on the card, what's the cost and turnaround on that?
[23:09:23] <pcw_> We would o it just to have a model for these high output resolvers (it migh take a few days to get the .1% resistors)
[23:09:59] <ssi> mk, well let me know what I need to do to get that process underway
[23:10:27] <ssi> I wish there was a way I could find out what the nominal transformation ratio was
[23:10:33] <pcw_> anyway I will look into this on Monday (and your levels should be back to where they were before)
[23:10:54] <ssi> great, thanks
[23:11:10] <ssi> I'm gonna see if I can find the 5i23 sources and poke around in them
[23:12:51] <pcw_> if you want to measure the drive level measure each and add (the are 180 out of phase with a ~4V bias)
[23:12:53] <pcw_> if yo do not see this you may have damaged an output by shorting it to ground)
[23:14:09] <ssi> you mean drv+ against powersupply ground + drv- against powersupply ground?
[23:14:39] <ssi> and if they're 180 out of phase shouldn't they sum to the 4V bias? :P
[23:15:52] <pcw_> both have a 4V bias with a superimposed sine wave
[23:17:27] <pcw_> Anyway BBL
[23:17:37] <ssi> thanks for the help
[23:18:03] <pcw_> well get it going
[23:18:31] <frysteev_> you heard the man!
[23:19:39] <ssi> frysteev_: so what should I work on in the meantime?
[23:19:48] <ssi> something big and meaningful surely
[23:23:23] <ssi> major milestones:
[23:24:14] <ssi> turret, coolant pump on/off, spindle on/off with clutch engage/disengage, limit switches, collet open/close
[23:25:30] <ssi> designing and cutting a new panel
[23:25:37] <ssi> that's your favorite part probably
[23:35:01] <frysteev_> i dunno :P