#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-03

[00:20:31] <frysteev> anyone familair with transformers?
[00:24:31] <CareBear\> more than meets the eye
[02:15:01] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:23:42] -niven.freenode.net:#linuxcnc- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
[04:59:20] <archivist> frysteev, in irc ask the actual question not meta questions like whether we know about x
[06:37:31] <SadMan> where can i find the rtapi patch that was applied to that lucid kernel? (2.6.32)
[06:38:30] <SadMan> rtai
[07:29:08] <cncbasher> SadMan: see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RtaiSteps
[07:30:48] <cncbasher> SadMan : also the section in the wiki Installing EMC2 section 6
[07:30:57] <SadMan> all those rtai guides are for ancient kernels and i got fooled by it, looking for patch in rtai/base/arch/i386 instead of x86
[07:31:06] <SadMan> in 386 dir, there are patches only up to 2.6.24 or so
[07:31:10] <SadMan> i386
[07:32:22] <cncbasher> arh !
[07:38:27] <cncbasher> vulcano seems to be a current build
[07:39:09] <SadMan> arch/x86/kernel/ipipe.c:73: error: 'irq_desc' undeclared here (not in a function)
[07:39:12] <SadMan> bah
[07:46:11] <JT-Shop> morning guys
[07:47:05] <cncbasher> afternoon JT
[07:55:42] <rob_h> stil around then john
[08:01:09] <JT-Shop> just heading inside for some breakfast
[08:01:33] <archivist> tis lunch time!
[08:02:20] <JT-Shop> ah you guys are over there get up way too early
[08:03:29] <archivist> I kept warm in my pit till after 10
[08:04:28] <cncbasher> i wish i could ... these dammed granddaughter alarm clocks will not let me
[08:06:45] <vin321> any 1 know if thease are any good http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Stepper-Motor-Driver-2M982-7-8A-Driver-Controller-Mill-Router-/250987089375?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3a6fff0ddf?
[08:08:12] <cncbasher> vin321: yea their fine
[08:09:11] <cncbasher> they come in all names and sizes , their made by leadshine , lots of branded names etc
[08:09:20] <archivist> look related to the ones I use http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors
[08:09:34] <cncbasher> yes they are all the same
[08:10:10] <cncbasher> iv'e not had a bad one , at least not as yet
[08:10:33] <archivist> I had a dry joint in one
[08:10:42] <vin321> sweet & will i get away woth a 24 v power ?
[08:10:45] <cncbasher> even shorting out a motor it survived
[08:10:59] <vin321> cool
[08:11:10] <cncbasher> better with 36 - 48v
[08:11:11] <archivist> I run 28v
[08:11:19] <vin321> i meen i dont want to use 24 v but for now
[08:11:42] <cncbasher> 24 is fine for testing , you just wont get the speed
[08:11:50] <vin321> ace
[08:12:28] <vin321> odds are to much speed with throw my thing to bits at this stage
[08:12:29] <cncbasher> more amps the better
[08:12:48] <vin321> i can paralemt computer powersupplys
[08:12:59] <vin321> paralel*]
[08:13:27] <cncbasher> you need around 10 amps for 3 of them
[08:13:36] <archivist> I would no do that, you will need to load balance and make sure they dont go unstable
[08:13:42] <cncbasher> for an average machine
[08:14:11] <cncbasher> computer power supplys are a bad way
[08:14:27] <cncbasher> better with a specific power supply
[08:14:37] <archivist> I use an industrial switching supply
[08:15:23] <archivist> 24v Lambda but with the voltage turned up to max
[08:15:51] <cncbasher> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600W-PSU-48V-12A-CNC-Power-Supply-Stepper-Motor-Milling-/110826633771?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item1
[08:16:16] <cncbasher> i use a lot of these , for stepper psu's
[08:17:01] <vin321> i was considdering wiering 4 ,12 v psu's to 4 ,12 v lead asid then run them in series
[08:17:17] <cncbasher> theirs plenty to choose from , but in the main modified computer supplys are a bit of a rough way to do it
[08:18:23] <cncbasher> also you cant beat a simple transformer , bridge rectifier and large caps
[08:18:33] <cncbasher> thats all you need
[08:19:21] <cncbasher> no seperate psu's and batts is not a clean way to do it
[08:19:45] <cncbasher> and problems and you'll blow the lot
[08:20:13] <vin321> thats how i killed my tb6560
[08:20:49] <cncbasher> tb6560's are easy to kill , all you need to do is connect it
[08:21:18] <cncbasher> they should be killed on sight
[08:21:36] <vin321> it was odd it worked at 36 them wem i changed back to 24 it poped
[08:22:09] <vin321> thing is i got it working
[08:22:18] <cncbasher> their a typical bad design layout made cheap , a few extra pennies and they would have been fine
[08:23:04] <cncbasher> in most badly spec'd components , but after all their made to a price of course
[08:23:45] <vin321> the guy that disimed it was probably not invited to make it
[08:23:59] <cncbasher> probably fine in very low amp steppers , but give them any real use and they will pop
[08:40:04] <vin321> thease are the steppers i have http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Stepper-Motor-4Nm-Nema23-566oz-1yr-Warranty-cnc-parts-/110824545855?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item19cda85e3f
[08:41:32] <cncbasher> yea their fine
[08:41:52] <cncbasher> but you do need a fair powersupply for them
[08:42:46] <cncbasher> be careful some stepper drivers are only 48v max
[08:43:09] <cncbasher> better to get the 60v + ones and a matching supply
[08:43:21] <cncbasher> what are you using them in
[08:43:27] <cncbasher> router ?
[08:43:49] <vin321> i guess
[08:44:15] <vin321> its got a gartry with a router straped to it
[08:44:50] <cncbasher> yea you better off with the higher voltage and current types
[08:45:11] <cncbasher> you have a lot of mass to move
[08:45:11] <cncbasher> with a gantery
[08:45:42] <vin321> ya its moisy to
[08:46:19] <cncbasher> if you have any friction or tightspots try and remove them
[08:46:28] <vin321> i realy need to change this keybord letters all worn & im desxic
[08:46:49] <cncbasher> the smoother it runs the better mechanicly
[08:48:44] <vin321> its fealy smoth y& x have 4 rails each tho as its made from plans of wood theres some flex at times
[08:49:08] <vin321> i got some pritty good resolts with that tb bord
[08:49:51] <vin321> not perfict but at lest i could see some progress
[08:50:46] <vin321> the biggest issue was x i think the bearings are to close to gather for the load there was a lil wobble
[08:56:58] <vin321> ty for the chat im a lot happyer about spending on some thing i know works
[08:58:39] <cncbasher> yes they can be suprisingly good
[10:30:06] <raynerd> Hi guys
[10:30:30] <raynerd> I`m absolutely gutted. Last night I got my cnc machine working on three axis and was hanging on here talking to a few people.
[10:31:14] <raynerd> Just got down to it now looking forward to the first time of proper use and the bloody power supply is tripping when connected to my 3-axis TB6560 board
[10:31:21] <raynerd> I`m guessing the board is screwed?
[10:32:17] <raynerd> Power supply comes on just fine when not connected to the driver, but then trips off when connected.
[10:32:22] <jdhnc> might try it one motor at a time.
[10:32:30] <archivist> TB6560 is not known for reliability, what was the voltage you had it on
[10:32:37] <raynerd> 12v
[10:32:43] <raynerd> and tried it with no motors!
[10:33:23] <raynerd> the little led comes on new the 12v vol reg when connected to parallel port but connecting a power supply just causes it to trip out.
[10:33:32] <raynerd> new = near
[10:34:15] <raynerd> I could cry, been building up to this day for frigging months
[10:35:29] <raynerd> any idea what could be happening on the driver board to cause the power supply to trip out when connected?
[10:35:40] <archivist> comment from someone else today <cncbasher> tb6560's are easy to kill , all you need to do is connect it
[10:35:58] <pcw_home> 12V should be really safe unless you disconnected DC power or motors live
[10:36:41] <raynerd> I`m fairly sure I haven`t done that and yes I was purposely keeping on 12v during testing
[10:36:44] <archivist> check for shorts, things getting hot etc
[10:37:15] <raynerd> the little fan doesn`t even come on.
[10:37:44] <raynerd> that was a stupid comment, sorry, the fan wouldn`t come on because the power supply is being knocked off!
[10:37:49] <archivist> use a dvm to check shorts on the rails
[10:38:00] <pcw_home> I'd be temped to power it with a lab supply, crank it up till you have a couple amps and see what gets hot
[10:38:22] <archivist> pcw_home, I do that too :)
[10:38:29] <raynerd> ok
[10:38:50] <raynerd> I presume when I find something getting hot, that could very well be the dead component
[10:39:06] <archivist> yup
[10:39:12] <pcw_home> (a an good milli voltmeter so see where the current is going for dead shorts)
[10:39:16] <archivist> or just the part in series with the faulty part
[10:40:11] <raynerd> pcw_home: sorry, could you just explain that bit
[10:40:14] <archivist> a dvm capable of measuring very low resistance is another way
[10:40:37] <raynerd> yes, so I have a multimeter,
[10:42:12] <pcw_home> If you have several paralled component, and one is a dead short (so no heat) you can trace where the
[10:42:13] <pcw_home> current is going by measureing small voltage drops along the current carrying traces
[10:42:13] <archivist> connect black to 0v, then use the red lead on the power rail and measure various points till you find the lowest resistance on the power rail, should be close to the shorted chip
[10:43:34] <pcw_home> Thats easier (but the contact resistance is somtimes larger than the short/trace resistance)
[10:46:19] <archivist> yup needs a 4/5 digit meter
[10:46:56] <pcw_home> The heat way usually works too as long as the shorted component has some resistance
[10:48:32] <pcw_home> even 0.1 Ohm will give you a very noticeable ~1W with 3 A
[10:48:58] <jdhnc> http://www.ebay.com/itm/160676355589
[10:51:19] <jdhnc> or, you could buy 4-5 TB6560's for that
[10:52:24] <raynerd> guys, I`m back, sorry I went down to the workshop to look at it. OK, first thing before I`ve done any test with a multimeter is that I can power up just fine but when the parallel connector to the computer is put in the socket, it shorts my supply
[10:52:34] <raynerd> even my bench supply drops to 6v
[10:53:03] <archivist> check wiring
[10:53:45] <raynerd> can`t see anything wrong with the wiring. The lead is a standard parallel lead that came with the driver
[10:54:11] <archivist> your part of the wiring :)
[10:54:54] <raynerd> Sorry :( not with you. At present I`ve no wiring connected other than the parallel cable and dc input
[10:55:11] <archivist> if the board has opto isolators that symptom should be impossible
[10:55:30] <pcw_home> is your 12v supply floating?
[10:55:47] <archivist> what amps can the supply handle
[10:55:58] <raynerd> :-S floating?
[10:56:11] <archivist> is it going into limit due to being undersized
[10:56:17] <raynerd> I`ve just switched to a lab supply so it is doing the same with my 12v constant and lab supply
[10:56:38] <archivist> at how many amps
[10:56:39] <pcw_home> floating meaning neither terminal is grounded
[10:57:21] <raynerd> sorry, pcw-home, know your trying to help but I`m not clear what you mean. No, I don`t think either terminal is grounded.
[10:57:44] <raynerd> please bear in mind that it was working just fine before I went to bed last night
[10:58:04] <pcw_home> how much current flows with the lab supply connected?
[10:58:55] <pcw_home> maybe theres a 1/2 bad Hbridge so its shorted in one particular DIR (whicd changes if plugged into computer)
[10:58:58] <raynerd> the lab supply shows 0.12A at 13.5v when the parallel cable is connected but the voltage drops to a max of 6v locked when the cable is connected
[10:59:22] <pcw_home> at how much current?
[10:59:45] <raynerd> one second...let me take this laptop down to the machine so can give you proper info.
[10:59:55] <pcw_home> (when its at 6V)
[11:00:47] <archivist> at least 6v means no shorts probably
[11:01:38] <raynerd> OK, no parallel cable connected - all lights come on as expected and driver "looks" fine. 13v at 0.12A
[11:02:25] <raynerd> When parallel cable is connected and computer turned on - 6v at 0.54A
[11:02:53] <archivist> has the psu got a current limit
[11:03:03] <pcw_home> ok when at 6V leave it on a bit and see what gets hot
[11:03:19] <raynerd> It is a Kenwood PA18 and has a 2A limit
[11:03:28] <archivist> are the motors connected
[11:03:36] <raynerd> not at present
[11:04:29] <archivist> error! how can a psu drop to 6v below its current limit
[11:04:50] <raynerd> huh?
[11:05:18] <raynerd> that is what the PSU is telling me.
[11:05:21] <pcw_home> just a WAG: one 1/2 bridge is bad in one DIR (so affected by DIR = cable)
[11:05:23] <raynerd> the numbers on the front
[11:05:44] <archivist> turn the current limit up
[11:05:58] <pcw_home> so feel around for whats hot
[11:06:22] <raynerd> archivist :( OOPS!
[11:06:32] <raynerd> 13v, 1.26A
[11:06:35] <pcw_home> (.54 amp at 6V should be enough archivist is trying to burn you)
[11:06:59] <archivist> smoke should get out the bad chip now
[11:07:29] <archivist> you could switch off and feel for "warm"
[11:08:40] <raynerd> nothing hot
[11:08:51] <raynerd> at 12v, should I plug a motor in and see if I can run one?
[11:09:37] <archivist> you can try, but /me finds that current high for no motors
[11:11:17] <pcw_home> 13v, 1.26A shoud definitely get something hot (left on long enough)
[11:11:41] <pcw_home> thats about 15W
[11:12:02] <archivist> I would be expecting a cracking noise and smoke
[11:13:05] <raynerd> I have 2 motors connect, x and y, 8.52v at 2A
[11:13:12] <raynerd> motors are running
[11:13:30] <pcw_home> yeah that power is going somewhere...
[11:14:07] <raynerd> big diodes at the front are getting hotter
[11:14:25] <archivist> unplug motors, use one motor at a time to test each drive
[11:14:42] <raynerd> ok
[11:14:57] <raynerd> ok, so just got x axis in now
[11:15:01] <raynerd> what am I looking for?
[11:15:17] <archivist> heat and does it work properly
[11:15:39] <raynerd> 12.5v at 1.19A - working fine
[11:15:44] <pcw_home> try all three? and see if they all work equally well
[11:16:00] <pcw_home> maybe you healed it ;-)
[11:16:05] <raynerd> lol
[11:16:23] <archivist> and "big diodes" means little, look at your manual/circuit
[11:17:05] <raynerd> btw, I`ve noticed this before, when the motor starts running, the current drops massively.
[11:17:40] <raynerd> so like same motor in x axis, same results as above, 12.5v about 1.2A but drops to 0.2A when running!
[11:18:33] <pcw_home> Yes because at 12V you cannto supply full motor current when the motor is running at any decent speed
[11:18:39] <raynerd> AH OK.
[11:18:42] <raynerd> I see sorry.
[11:18:55] <raynerd> Well now i`m confused. Same results with the same motor on all three axis!
[11:19:22] <archivist> you need a beefy supply for motors
[11:19:34] <pcw_home> if you run the motors slowly the current should not drop so much
[11:19:51] <archivist> sum your required motor currents
[11:20:12] <raynerd> sum them?
[11:20:30] <archivist> 2A per motor is how many
[11:20:39] <raynerd> ahh I see,
[11:20:50] <raynerd> so really I need a minimum 6A supply
[11:20:57] <archivist> bingo
[11:21:06] <raynerd> this is 5A
[11:21:45] <archivist> set your current to 1.5A per motor then
[11:23:27] <raynerd> motors are only 5v 1A so why they pulling 2A ?
[11:24:05] <archivist> see your settings on the chips
[11:24:40] <raynerd> The driver has 2 dip switches and the current isn`t stated, it just says: 100%, 75%, 50 or 25%
[11:25:04] <raynerd> #i`m currently set to 50%
[11:26:20] <archivist> see manual or tb6560 datasheet
[11:26:56] <raynerd> I`m reading the manual?
[11:27:17] <raynerd> I don`t see what the % is of?
[11:29:54] <archivist> data sheet says torque setting(current) try 25%
[11:31:47] <raynerd> humm, OK so with them set to 25%, the OLD 12v 5A supply is working!
[11:33:26] <archivist> just an under rated psu was the problem or running too much current for your motors
[11:51:56] <raynerd> nice one, cheers guys
[11:52:16] <raynerd> fully up and running now but can see my motors are struggling at this current/torque setting
[11:52:24] <raynerd> new power supply is needed :(
[12:49:48] <mrsun> life sucks and then you die
[12:50:25] <mrsun> why is it that when you do not have a machine, you feel like you need it cause your going to do all kinds of neat projects, when you finaly have the machine well ... no inspiration whatsoever
[12:52:58] <syyl_ws> sounds you need another machine
[12:53:02] <syyl_ws> and another..
[12:53:03] <pcw_home> Somehow that remoinds me of the Stephen Crane poem:
[12:53:04] <pcw_home> A man said to the universe:
[12:53:08] <pcw_home> "Sir I exist!"
[12:53:08] <pcw_home> "However," replied the universe,
[12:53:09] <pcw_home> "The fact has not created in me
[12:53:10] <pcw_home> A sense of obligation."
[12:55:04] <mrsun> just to hope the dying part comes quick
[13:00:30] <mrsun> now i even got double walled aluminium pipes to make stirling engines, but do i make them ... nooo :P
[13:00:53] <SadMan> emc2 complains that it needs 2.6.32-122-rtai
[13:01:01] <SadMan> is that hardcoded or where does it take it from?
[13:01:55] <mrsun> uname -a ?
[13:01:57] <SadMan> hm, probably init.d/realtime
[13:01:57] <mrsun> or whatever
[13:02:12] <SadMan> mrsun: i'm trying to compile my own kernel with rtai
[13:02:34] <mrsun> add the rtai prefix when compiling it then ?
[13:02:36] <mrsun> in the kernel conf
[13:11:25] <SadMan> seems that i need to rebuild emc2 because it has its own kernel modules aswell
[13:11:28] <SadMan> the pain never stops
[13:20:46] <archivist> you selected to do it the hard way!
[13:21:10] <SadMan> nope, i just wanted to play with a webcam in emc2
[13:21:12] <SadMan> big mistake ;-)
[13:21:29] <pcw_home> Webcams are evil
[13:21:31] <archivist> ah, no need to mess about then,
[13:21:52] <SadMan> archivist: that one i have is not supported in that prebuilt kernel
[13:23:06] <SadMan> but i'll probably just backport the driver, this is getting ridiculous
[13:23:25] <archivist> I got a some oddity off the net for my camera
[13:26:49] <archivist> and recently got motion which is on this box with the camera I used back on the cnc
[13:34:10] <archivist> hmm 2008 when I was doing my camera experiments
[14:49:02] <Tecan> anyone here use lasers ?
[14:49:14] <Tecan> need a hand hooking up the ps
[14:50:03] <Jymmm> cradek: http://i42.tinypic.com/344ds3b.jpg
[14:58:53] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/bZzEN.png
[14:59:05] <Tecan> need help connecting this biznatch
[15:09:39] <jdhnc> don't cut the blue wire.
[15:10:21] <djdelorie> <abyss>they're all green!</abyss>
[15:11:05] <djdelorie> If you're a wire-color-nazi, please don't look at my wiring... I use scrap ribbon cable so there are rainbow colors all over the place...
[15:13:11] <jdhnc> mine tend to be whatever I have closest that is about the right size.
[15:15:35] <djdelorie> well, if we wanted pretty, we'd buy professionally-made equipment, right? ;-)
[15:16:11] <jdhnc> maybe. I'm just frugal/cheap
[15:16:37] <jdhnc> but, some people don't even want to pay money for a compiler.
[15:17:41] <Thetawaves> pay money for a compiler? are you kidding me?
[15:17:52] <Thetawaves> the best compilers are free anyway
[15:19:02] <djdelorie> I write my own compilers :-)
[15:19:36] <jdhnc> I recall.
[15:27:18] <jdhnc> I bought a copy of borland C 4.5, it was disappointing.
[16:00:09] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[19:11:34] <archivist> thar be gold in teh fleabay items 330691051051
[19:14:59] <pcw_home> Belonged to a celebrity machinist?
[19:15:54] <archivist> said celeb seems to have used a large hammer on the shaft!
[19:17:39] <archivist> I was just restoring a drilling machine and looking for a chuck as mine has a few marks on the jacobs taper,
[19:28:28] <joe9> has anyone tried the Harbor freight X2 mill and also the tiag mill. just curious of how bad the runout on the HF mill was.
[19:44:29] <cstop> run out on a slow turning (<3000rpm) is not such a bad thing. One flute is loaded more than another....big deal. Consider a fly cutter, it only has one flute. (as do some router bits.
[20:10:23] <Nick001> Jt-Shop - Are you around? Question about the Hardinge PLC
[20:11:07] <JT-Shop> somewhat
[20:12:34] <Nick001> Hi is there a way of putting a timer in to keep the stop selenoid energized while the spin selinoid de-energizes?
[20:13:36] <Nick001> The turret works except it skips out after the turret is coming down
[20:14:47] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[20:16:31] <Nick001> just need to keep the stop energized for a split second longer
[20:16:50] <Nick001> to allow the turret to settle
[20:19:28] <JT-Shop> you need to set the magnet to get the correct tiiming
[20:19:54] <JT-Shop> I must warn you we have been drinking...
[20:20:56] <Nick001> magnet is set good - was working in the older prog using wallace's files
[21:51:28] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7cjo4kTYMw
[22:00:43] <skunkworks__> That is pretty cool!
[23:45:19] <ender> anyone have a cnc3020?
[23:49:07] <jts> Good day, I am setting up my first glade vcp and am confused about the file extension. The docs and examples seem to use the file extension .ui but the application for making the ui seems to save with the extension .glade. I am wondering if these file extensions are interchangeable or if there is a distinction.