#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-27

[00:54:36] <pingufan> Good morning from Austria!
[00:55:43] <pingufan> I am currently trying to use my tooltip sensor the first time, but my EMC2 refuses the following line of code: g43.1 z[#5063 - #1000]
[00:56:45] <pingufan> It sais that commands G43.1 ... don't have to contain X-,Y-,Z-, ... words.
[00:57:25] <pingufan> I got an example G-Code program for testing and this program contains that line.
[01:00:53] <pingufan> I use an older version of EMC2 (AXIS 2.3.5), because newer EMC causes troubles on my PC.
[01:01:09] <pingufan> Can somebody, please, help me?
[01:02:09] <iwoj> Hey doods.
[01:04:35] <pingufan> Hey!
[01:05:02] <iwoj> I've managed to get my X and Y axes moving, but my Z axis only moves in the
[01:05:09] <iwoj> positive direction.
[01:10:07] <anonimas1> elmo40: 118deg and hss
[01:41:13] <Thetawaves> my work piece seems to be migrating
[01:44:38] <Jymmm> South for the winter?
[01:46:43] <Thetawaves> figured it out, missing steps when i plunge into the the work piece for the first cut of that level, it is rubbing against the edge causing lost steps
[01:55:01] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:41:26] <mrsun> just issuing "M3" does that mean start spindle at max rpm or at lowst?
[02:41:28] <mrsun> lowest
[02:44:35] <pjm> i think u have to issue a speed too, unless a previous speed was issued
[02:44:59] <pjm> on my machine if i type M3 it wont turn the spindle unless i type M3 S1000 or so
[02:51:21] <mrsun> hmm ok, playing around with pcb-gcode and all it issues in the gcode is M3 to start spindle
[02:51:26] <mrsun> that kinda sucks :P÷
[02:52:19] <Valen> some spindles probably don't have a speed
[02:52:27] <Valen> check out what the manual says for the m3
[03:08:29] <_abc_> Speaking of which, what M code is commonly used to pause machines?
[03:08:34] <_abc_> Especially Chinese ones?
[03:09:22] <_abc_> M01 ?
[03:09:32] <_abc_> M00 ?
[03:09:46] <_abc_> I mean a stop which permits continuation by the operator
[03:10:37] <Jymmm> MORE BABY MORE?
[03:12:14] <_abc_> Some Chinese machines seem to think it's okay to just not implement certain codes and continue with no warning. NOT GOOD.
[03:12:36] <_abc_> Oh, and, there is no manual. They don't know what they copied, apparently.
[03:12:41] * _abc_ leaves
[03:13:40] <Jymmm> trees
[03:17:24] <mrsun> ahh now spindle works just as good cw as ccw =)
[03:18:26] <Jymmm> what about anti-c/cw?
[03:18:50] <mrsun> huh ? :P
[03:19:00] <mrsun> thats what i ment, clockwise, counter clock wise
[03:19:02] <Jymmm> Just askin =)
[03:19:08] <Jymmm> exactly
[03:19:57] <mrsun> now i just would need a cabinett for the vfd and make some cables
[03:20:34] <Jymmm> I got nothing funny to say bout that, try again.
[03:21:55] <mrsun> haha :P
[04:51:57] <elmo40> anonimas1: you should use carbide. and check those pages out for a better speed&feed
[05:14:47] <seb_kuzminsky> is it true that gantrykins machines don't honor soft limits while in teleop/world mode? or do i have a sleepy misconfiguration somewhere? (in joint mode, after homing, the soft limits are respected)
[05:18:32] <mrsun> gah fengrave wont vcarve just the letters, it V carves everything :P
[05:18:34] <mrsun> why =)
[05:19:47] <pingufan> hello. Can someone, please, help me with automatic tool length compensation? I posted in (my) earlier morning, but I still cannot get it working until now.
[05:22:55] <pingufan> I got a testing program (G-Code program), but it appears to me that several commands are not supported by AXIS 2.3.5
[05:26:19] <pingufan> Is somebody here familiar with tool probing and how it has to be done in 2.3.5 ?
[05:37:37] <awallin> pingufan: looks like G43.1 takes values in IJK format. at least on 2.3.5 (this may have changed for later versions)
[05:40:29] <pingufan> Hmm - I am not shure what this changes. How do I code then this part?
[05:40:44] <pingufan> (I am a newbe)
[05:41:26] <awallin> K would correspond to Z-axis. so try G43.1K123.45
[05:41:50] <jthornton> G38.2 Z-1.0 (probe down a maximum of 1.0 units, if no contact by then error)
[05:42:01] <pingufan> The variables used by the toll probe are the same?
[05:42:08] <pingufan> tool probe
[05:42:41] <pingufan> I have here: #5063
[05:44:12] <pingufan> So I simply replace g43.1 z[#5063-#1000] with g43.1 k[#5063-#1000] and that's it ?
[05:44:51] <awallin> try that..
[05:45:45] <jthornton> G43.1 only takes axes letters
[05:45:59] <pingufan> Currently I run a longer milling job, must wait until it is finished.
[05:46:19] <pingufan> jthornton: What does this mean in practice?
[05:47:11] <jthornton> I don't understand your question
[05:47:13] <pingufan> jthornton: my AXIS 2.3.5 does not accept x,y,z with G43.1
[05:47:54] <jthornton> oh, 2.3 is very old and may not even have G43.1
[05:48:38] <jthornton> I don't even have docs for 2.3 any more
[05:49:05] <pingufan> Actually it sais that G43.1 does not alloe X,Y,Z so it seems that it knows this command. Otherwise it would say "Unknown G Word"
[05:49:27] <jthornton> what do your docs say about it?
[05:50:27] <pingufan> My problem is that a newer version (I tried it before) does not work with my hardware. This might have changed again, but I don't like surprises.
[05:51:00] <jthornton> then you will have to read the 2.3 docs and figure out how it works
[05:51:16] <awallin> did you try IJK? that is what the 2.3.x docs say http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.3/html/ no use speculating before you tried that..
[05:51:35] <jthornton> wow, you found them
[05:52:32] <pingufan> awallin: I must wait until the running milling job is finished. (PCB milling is awfully slow.)
[05:52:58] <jthornton> not much to speculate on now "To use a tool length offset from the program, use G43.1 I- K-, where I- gives the X tool offset (for lathes) and K- gives the Z tool offset (for lathes and mills). "
[05:55:11] <pingufan> Thank you a lot. The variable (where the tool-probe stores the value is still the same? (#5063) ?
[05:55:27] <jthornton> I have no idea, you will have to read your docs
[05:56:02] <jthornton> it will give you something to do while the PCB mills :P
[05:56:28] <pingufan> Is there a replacement for (print, blah #1000) which works in 2.3.5? (msg, ....) works, but doesn't print the value of #1000.
[05:57:20] <jthornton> you might read your docs and see if debug is supported
[05:57:44] <pingufan> Ah, this is "debugging". Good to know.
[06:07:46] <pingufan> Reading the right manual is indeed helpful. :) Should work as expected when I only replace z with k
[06:11:58] <jthornton> yes, many things can and do change between versions
[06:20:51] <pingufan> Has much important stuff changed between 2.3.5 and the current version, or was it primarily fixing bugs?
[06:24:35] <jthornton> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Released
[06:40:05] <Valen> pingufan: do you hang out on the piclist?
[06:40:19] <Valen> i know your name from somewhere
[06:46:06] <pingufan> Which piclist?
[06:46:19] <Valen> THE piclist ;->
[06:46:25] <Valen> email list
[06:46:43] <Valen> piclist@mit.edu
[06:46:58] <pingufan> piclist sais nothing to me.
[06:47:15] <Valen> nevermind, probably nothing
[06:47:27] <pingufan> What is this piclist's theme?
[06:47:35] <Valen> pic microcontrollers
[06:47:52] <pingufan> Then it might be that I appear there. :)
[07:03:49] <mrsun_> awallin, you there ?
[07:07:43] <awallin> mrsun_: hi
[07:08:17] <mrsun_> awallin, ello =) trying to run your ttt2medial script and getting error =)
[07:08:42] <awallin> ok.. pastebin your error ?
[07:08:52] <mrsun_> http://pastebin.com/LYMdh0fE
[07:09:29] <awallin> yeah, that changed... and apparently I did not update the script. hold on.
[07:10:07] <mrsun_> awallin, great =)
[07:11:36] <awallin> here's the change https://github.com/aewallin/linuxcnc-scripts/commit/e16a6804dd2fcb6e68f9f9e25ee6762ad054c845 or you can do a pull
[07:13:53] <mrsun_> nice =)
[07:14:01] <mrsun_> should write a real engraving app around that stuff =)
[07:19:45] <awallin> truetype-tracer doesn't support kerning. that's a real problem. should switch to pango or cairo or something.
[07:32:53] <awallin> mrsun_: any luck with that script? if/when you change the text you need to change the scale also, to keep it within the unit-circle. and if you get the kerning-problems (overlapping characters) then there is not much that can be done (change font)
[07:41:41] <joe9> does anyone have experience with this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#3100a45 ?
[07:42:16] <DJ9DJ> to continue, please log in...
[07:48:00] <mrsun_> awallin, works great =)
[07:48:05] <mrsun_> very nice carvings =)
[07:51:38] <MattyMatt2> will ECP work for parport mode? stupid bios shows a list of 4 modes in the help pane, but the menu options only have 3
[07:52:10] <awallin> mrsun_: nice. send me some pictures if you do some cutting!
[07:53:46] <MattyMatt2> emc2 crash log also suggested bios needs an upgrade anyway. I hope lenovo support pre-lenovo thinkpads :p
[07:54:22] <mrsun_> awallin, it was just a test, trying to find a program to make a candy box for the dog with its name on and i want the text to look nice =)
[07:55:16] <mrsun_> awallin, where is cut depth set in the script? :)
[07:56:06] <awallin> I guess it assumes z=0 to be the stock surface. then it assumes a 90degree cutter, and the cut-depth is set so that the width of the letter comes out right
[07:56:53] <mrsun_> awallin, got a 60 degree cutter ...
[07:56:54] <mrsun_> i think it is
[07:57:06] <mrsun_> can i set the cutter degrees somehow ? :)
[07:57:54] <MattyMatt2> you could fake that by scaling your Z steps
[07:58:58] <MattyMatt2> that's an evil solution tho
[07:59:54] <awallin> the z-values seem to come out of openvoronoi on lines 22 and 29 of ttt2medial.py you could scale there with a suitable number
[08:10:33] <MattyMatt2> oh ffs, 2nd thinkpad has same bios problem. no EPP selectable
[08:11:39] <MattyMatt2> and a weirdness. latency test works from inside stepconf but fails silently from gnome menu
[08:12:25] <MattyMatt2> and I got a jitter spike of 300k ns in both threads :p
[08:12:55] <MattyMatt2> not that I care about that too much at the moment
[08:13:46] <awallin> laptop -> bad idea...
[08:13:50] <MattyMatt2> no more old thinkpads off ebay for me
[08:14:28] <MattyMatt2> even modern ones with 2+ cores?
[08:14:53] <MattyMatt2> of course modern ones have no parports, so I guess not :)
[08:15:53] <MattyMatt2> k, time to buy a psu for my old p3. at least it has an mga400 in it
[08:15:57] <awallin> too much power-saving stuff I think
[08:17:02] <Thetawaves> MattyMatt2, get an atom based system
[08:18:05] <MattyMatt2> no cash for new hardware really. I'd need a screen etc. that's really why I'm using a lappy where I am
[08:22:54] <MattyMatt2> if mesa did a pci card with an atom on, at no more increment than the chip price, I'd be tempted
[08:25:59] <MattyMatt2> someone is making a fpga/opencore controller for repraps. getting full emc2 on that would be neat
[08:26:17] <awallin> keeping up with the rate at which intel pushes out new chips might be a challenge
[08:27:03] <MattyMatt2> yeah they stopped making 386sx a couple of years ago too :)
[08:27:40] <MattyMatt2> I think they still have sufficient inventory for long term support tho
[08:33:33] <joe9> each drill bit is $13. isn't that expensive? http://www.mcmaster.com/#2860a94
[08:34:27] <Thetawaves> your first mistake is using mcmaster
[08:34:42] <mikegg> try harbor freight :)
[08:34:54] <Thetawaves> or amazon
[08:35:33] <JT-Shop> good drill bits are not cheap, harbor freight sells cheap bits
[08:35:55] <JT-Shop> mcmaster is not the lowest but they have everything :)
[08:36:33] <mikegg> yeah, I bought a tap set from HF. It's good for tapping delrin. not much else...
[08:37:17] <Thetawaves> i have found some high quality stuff on amazon
[08:37:20] <JT-Shop> I bought a couple of drill bit sets that came from China, I returned them as soon as I opened the box
[08:37:35] <Thetawaves> the trick is to not but the cheapest pos available
[08:38:03] <joe9> mikegg: thanks.
[08:38:18] <JT-Shop> joe9: you looking for circuit board bits?
[08:38:25] <joe9> JT-Shop: yes.
[08:38:27] <Thetawaves> i am
[08:38:48] <JT-Shop> http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Holemaking/Drilling-Drill-Bits/Circuit-Board-Drill-Bits/_/N-77h4l?refinement=4291252744&searchandizedOk=Y
[08:39:12] <joe9> what do you think of this? does anyone have experience with it: http://www.mcmaster.com/#3100a45 ? I am thinking of buying it for my big drill press.
[08:39:13] <Thetawaves> i wonder about these http://www.amazon.com/Carbide-Engraving-Bits-Degree-0-1mm/dp/B005LYVUH2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_9
[08:41:07] <mikegg> joe9: do you have a chuck for it? looks neat, but I wouldn't want to shell out +$200 for the chuck
[08:42:29] <joe9> mikegg: I am thinking of buying this chuck http://www.mcmaster.com/#2812a11
[08:42:40] <joe9> $69'ish.
[08:43:04] <JT-Shop> I've used a similar one for drilling tiny holes
[08:43:38] <JT-Shop> the real cheap ones don't center the bit well... if at all
[08:43:55] <joe9> JT-Shop: what do you think? worth it? I am trying to make a 5mm (diameter) 0.5mm slot and plan on using this for it.
[08:44:04] <joe9> and, also some 0.5mm through holes.
[08:44:33] <theorbtwo> I expect you can get a 0.5mm bit much cheaper then a 0.1mm bit.
[08:44:58] <Thetawaves> why not go the other way and get a bunch for cheap? http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1273
[08:45:28] <joe9> JT-Shop: will it help if I use this bit instead? http://www.mcmaster.com/#2841a81 for the 0.5mm through holes
[08:46:09] <JT-Shop> help=fit my current chuck?
[08:48:42] <joe9> JT-Shop: I was thinking of the "centering". These bits might be easier to center.
[08:48:56] <joe9> given that they have the thicker shank.
[08:50:36] <joe9> mikegg: the msc center in Mableton GA. Is it comparable to McMasterCarr? Have you used them to pick up stuff?
[08:51:37] <JT-Shop> just depends on your drill chuck I assume
[08:52:18] <mikegg> is it in Mableton? I know there is one somewhere around here. I think i've been there once. Not quite as big as McMaster, but definitely competitive
[08:52:51] <joe9> ok, thanks. it seems cheaper. do not know about the quality of the products, though.
[08:53:37] <jdhnc> joe9: never used one of those belts, I've heard they work though.
[08:53:51] <joe9> jdhnc: thanks.
[08:57:50] <joe9> mikegg: mcmastercarr.com is better organised than mscglobal.
[08:58:22] <joe9> mikegg: just chatted with mscglobal.com rep, and, yes, they have willcall as long as the item is available in that location.
[08:59:00] <jdhnc> I have a friend in atlanta that gets same day UPS from mcmaster
[09:01:17] <mikegg> oh yeah, their dynamex courier will get it to you before lunch if you're in the city.
[09:01:38] <joe9> is it free, or, is there a charge?
[09:01:50] <jdhnc> normal ups shipping charges
[09:01:55] <mikegg> hah, you pay for it
[09:12:10] <JT-Shop> mcmaster sends all freight directly to the UPS hub so it goes out that night and saves a day on shipping
[09:12:43] <joe9> the website is also pretty slick.
[09:12:53] <joe9> has all the needed parts linked up.
[09:15:04] <jdhnc> $d00d said UPS has a hub at the atlanta mcmaster warehouse
[09:16:25] <joe9> not surprised, they have a lot of container trucks there.
[09:18:28] <mikegg> also lots of hookers
[09:19:07] <danimal_laptop> hi
[09:19:23] <joe9> mikegg: really. need to keep my eyes open this time.
[09:20:09] <danimal_laptop> hi JT-Shop
[09:20:42] <MattyMatt2> I'm making an edm drill for tiny holes
[09:21:10] <JT-Shop> Hi Dan!
[09:21:16] <danimal_laptop> how goes it
[09:21:18] <MattyMatt2> just needs a collet and a psu that does cut out from the solenoid
[09:21:26] <MattyMatt2> ^n't
[09:21:37] <JT-Shop> good, did you get your plasma to fire off?
[09:21:50] <danimal_laptop> not yet
[09:22:03] <danimal_laptop> just woke up
[09:22:22] <danimal_laptop> thinking i need to change the tip to a smaller one
[09:23:05] <danimal_laptop> it's got a 100a thermadyne torch on a 30a cutter
[09:24:09] <JT-Shop> my hypertherm had different tips for different amp settings
[09:24:23] <JT-Shop> is it a machine torch or a hand torch?
[09:24:30] <danimal_laptop> hand
[09:24:34] <joe9> mikegg: do you have a preference between these 2 drill bits, assuming I have the other attachments for both: http://mcmaster.com/#2860A94 or http://mcmaster.com/#2841A81
[09:25:00] <joe9> the one with the shank is cheaper, but, I am not sure why it is cheaper.
[09:25:11] <joe9> less accuracy?
[09:25:29] <joe9> if you had a choice, which one do you prefer?
[09:25:41] <MattyMatt2> they lose fewer while grinding them >:)
[09:25:42] <danimal_laptop> i get voltage between the electrode and ground clamp, it's got good air pressure, not sure what else it can be. the torch is new
[09:26:09] <joe9> MattyMatt2: was that for me?
[09:26:13] <MattyMatt2> arrr
[09:26:36] <JT-Shop> the plasma is used?
[09:26:39] <MattyMatt2> do you need deep holes? if not I'd go for the shanked ones every time
[09:26:42] <danimal_laptop> yea
[09:26:51] <danimal_laptop> its an old one with a new torch
[09:26:57] <joe9> MattyMatt2: not deep holes. just 1/32inch.
[09:27:10] <JT-Shop> does it have to drag on the surface to start the arc?
[09:27:14] <joe9> or, at the most 1/16 inch.
[09:27:44] <joe9> MattyMatt2: thanks a lot.
[09:27:48] <MattyMatt2> those sizes are large enough to use straight shank
[09:27:49] <JT-Shop> mine will pop a small start arc out even if your not near the metal (not good for the tip)
[09:28:15] <MattyMatt2> below 1/32" I'd use shanked
[09:28:16] <danimal_laptop> not sure, it has a drag cone wich isnt listed in the parts manual for anything under 50a
[09:28:36] <danimal_laptop> that might put the electrode too far away
[09:28:48] <danimal_laptop> for that few of amps
[09:28:51] <JT-Shop> mine has a drag tip too but it is only to keep the proper distance while you cut
[09:29:01] <MattyMatt2> or actually I'd make an edm drill :) that's what I've done. I got sick of busting tiny drills
[09:29:05] <JT-Shop> do you have a manual on the plasma
[09:29:44] <danimal_laptop> http://thermadyne.com/IM_Uploads/DocLib_3772_0-4989.pdf
[09:29:50] <danimal_laptop> page 6-6
[09:29:56] <danimal_laptop> parts list for the torch
[09:30:10] <danimal_laptop> i do not have a manual for the plasma, only the torch
[09:30:30] <joe9> I found the taper-shank drill bits. Why not just use them instead of bothering with the chuck & arbor?
[09:30:54] <MattyMatt2> expensive is the only reason
[09:31:09] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[09:31:43] <MattyMatt2> make sure your spindle is running true tho, as there's no other way to correct it
[09:32:25] <MattyMatt2> so one of those would be good to measure your quill's runout
[09:32:54] <joe9> MattyMatt2: oh, ok. good idea. I am planning on buying a new chuck and arbor and see how bad it is.
[09:33:17] <joe9> I read that it is not a big deal to change the spindle bearings.
[09:33:35] <JT-Shop> Dan The torch includes a 'Parts - In - Place' (PIP) circuit. When the shield cup is properly installed, it closes a switch. The torch will not operate if this switch is open.
[09:34:15] <MattyMatt2> yeah if they are cheap radial bearings you're OK, but you might need a press to fit them
[09:34:38] <joe9> MattyMatt2: Anyway, I think it is not the spindle but the chuck or chuck/arbor connection. The reason I say this is, runout at the quill = 0.002 inches, runout at the beginning of the arbor (quill/arbor connection): 0.002 inch, runout at end of arbor (arbor/chuck connection) = 0.0002 inches.
[09:34:42] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: yea, i saw that
[09:34:54] <joe9> MattyMatt2: runout at chuck = 0.015 inches.
[09:35:05] <danimal_laptop> however the torch has voltage at the electrode when the trigger is depressed
[09:35:15] <JT-Shop> you have a cutmaster a120 torch but the plasma is a different model?
[09:35:30] <joe9> MattyMatt2: that makes me think that it is the chuck or the chuck/arbor connection.
[09:35:38] <joe9> MattyMatt2: would you concur?
[09:35:52] <danimal_laptop> the torch is a sl100, and yea, its on some old plasma made by sip
[09:36:10] <MattyMatt2> seems possible. there's a finite error everywhere always, but that does sound like the worst one in your setup
[09:36:54] <joe9> MattyMatt2: given that they were all harborfreight ones and which I bought used, I figure putting in a new chuck/arbor is a good idea.
[09:37:29] <MattyMatt2> there's a UK place selling sets of 3 chucks on MT1 or 2 for £10. andypugh reckons they're OK
[09:37:40] <joe9> that is pretty cheap
[09:38:06] <jdhnc> joe9: not really sure what you are doing, but perhaps it woudl be worthwhile to invest in something appropriately sized for the job and with more precision than typical HF stuff?
[09:38:11] <joe9> I am about to pay $69 for mine: http://mcmaster.com/#2812a11
[09:38:59] <joe9> jdhnc: I agree. I am trying to do the best I can given what I have. If I can get something reasonably good, I want to just build a cnc machine. I have the bom for that, too.
[09:39:36] <joe9> In the meantime, I am trying to get the drill press to work. I have a good vise that is pretty smooth. (upgraded from a crappy one)
[09:40:00] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: they have the 30a consumables at the local airgas, i think i might try them. someone on practical machininst confirmed that it might not arc with the 100a tip
[09:40:13] <joe9> jdhnc: and, the drill press runout at the spindle/quill is 0.002 inches, which I consider good enough for drilling 0.5 mm (0.02 inch) holes.
[09:40:23] <MattyMatt2> everything can be improved if you have lots of spare time and little money
[09:40:34] <JT-Shop> yea, that cold be it... but some of that stuff is magic
[09:41:02] <joe9> jdhnc: and the simplest cost-effective solution, would be to get a new chuck/arbor and try.
[09:41:16] <joe9> jdhnc: do you agree?
[09:41:25] <joe9> MattyMatt2: I agree.
[09:41:42] <jdhnc> I agree, if the new arbor & chuck are better.
[09:41:58] <MattyMatt2> did you manage to separate your chuck & arbour?
[09:42:08] <jdhnc> if they aren't, you just wasted more money
[09:42:13] <joe9> if not, I will just return the stuff at McMaster and start looking at milling machines.
[09:42:30] <joe9> MattyMatt2: no, I could not separate the old chuck/arbor.
[09:43:12] <MattyMatt2> McMaster don't sell crap afaik, so it should be better than an average used one
[09:43:13] <joe9> jdhnc: I am picking this stuff, so, no shipping charges.
[09:44:01] <jdhnc> putting a 'precision' chuck on a HF drill press just doesn't inspire much confidence for me :)
[09:44:28] <jdhnc> I've been trying to give away my chinese 13" drill press with no luck
[09:44:32] <MattyMatt2> I'd gamble on the £10 for 3. unless they've already been graded the odds are that one at least has low runout
[09:44:33] <joe9> MattyMatt2: no, I am not sure if the old arbor will fit the new chuck and if the bad part is the chuck/arbor connection, I do not want to risk it with an old arbor.
[09:44:56] <mazafaka> "HF" = ?
[09:45:02] <MattyMatt2> joe9, I was thinking more like a new arbor & the old chuck
[09:45:09] <mazafaka> 'High Force' ?
[09:45:48] <jdhnc> maz: harbor freight
[09:45:52] <mazafaka> oh
[09:46:37] <joe9> MattyMatt2: no, that would not work in my case, as I want to use the "drill press attachment" http://mcmaster.com/#3100a45 and it needs special chucks, I think.
[09:46:47] <MattyMatt2> I'm lucky my old lathe and old B&D have compatible jacobs chucks, so they can share
[09:46:53] <mazafaka> apply low feedrate per revolution, high speed and use it to drill blanks and flanges
[09:47:11] <MattyMatt2> I can't see your McM links
[09:47:29] <joe9> jdhnc: but, the drillpress has a runout of 0.002 inches. If you remove the whole "Harbor Freight" thing, it seems not that bad.
[09:47:42] <joe9> jdhnc: this is what I found from reading on the internet.
[09:47:54] <joe9> about the "acceptable runout"
[09:48:06] <MattyMatt2> what taper is it?
[09:48:31] <MattyMatt2> if it's a standard one you can get an arbour anywhere, in all kinds of qualities
[09:48:55] <MattyMatt2> and all kinds of chuck attahments
[09:49:04] <joe9> MattyMatt2: try this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#3100a45
[09:49:40] <MattyMatt2> wow that one worked, but it's the same URL as before
[09:49:49] <joe9> MattyMatt2: added www.
[09:49:58] <MattyMatt2> aha yeah
[09:50:08] <Jymmm> add MMA too
[09:52:59] <MattyMatt2> that tiny chuck looks like what I need for my edm drill. I was going to make a "zero size" dremel collet
[09:55:41] <MattyMatt2> holding the drilling wire in pointed setscrews may be a better idea tho, so I can adjust it for straightness
[09:56:08] <joe9> any pics?
[09:56:48] <joe9> are you talking about this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#30505a5 ?
[09:57:26] <MattyMatt2> it's just a solenoid with a delrin slide, if you'r talking about my edm drill
[09:57:51] <MattyMatt2> a big soft spring and adjustable stops
[09:58:03] <joe9> no, I meant what you are talking about with this: "pointed setscrews"
[09:58:18] <MattyMatt2> and a big delrin plug on the end while I decide how to do the chuck
[09:58:19] <joe9> MattyMatt2: I think that is a good idea.
[09:59:12] <MattyMatt2> McM wants me to log in now, but the idea is like a tiny 4 jaw chuck, or 2 in a row
[09:59:36] <MattyMatt2> that gives me full control of straightness and runout
[10:01:50] <MattyMatt2> I don't really want to use the edm drill on my lathe tho, in case I end up welding the work to the lathechuck, or the chuck jaws etc
[10:02:23] <MattyMatt2> I guess it'd be safe If I clamped the earth wire direct to the workpiece
[10:06:18] <pcw_home> I would worry that may still get current through the lathe bearings
[10:07:13] <pcw_home> unless you insulate the workpiece/tool from the lathe
[10:09:48] <MattyMatt2> yep, I'll probably not bother with the lathe, and just make a rotatable workpiece holder on the drill itself
[10:10:11] <joe9> MattyMatt2: why did you not go with a Proxxon IB/E
[10:10:27] <MattyMatt2> I'd look very silly if I welded my lathe together to save money on drill bits :)
[10:11:09] <MattyMatt2> proxxon is outa my range
[10:12:30] <MattyMatt2> Id just buy a MF70 for nozzle drilling and tiny milling if I had the cash
[10:13:31] <MattyMatt2> then I'd CNC it :)
[10:13:42] <MattyMatt2> nema17 steppers
[10:14:55] <MattyMatt2> with a geared one as the 4th axis
[10:15:11] <MattyMatt2> that'd be a better mill than my homemade wooden one
[10:16:22] <MattyMatt2> in every way except size
[10:19:07] <Jymmm> "Size does matter", That's what she said anyway.
[10:22:00] <MattyMatt2> mine isn't quite big enough to do a guitar body. that's a minor bummer
[10:23:34] <MattyMatt2> but that'd be an expensive hobby unless I get the knack of making valuable ones straight away
[10:25:52] <MattyMatt2> I'll stick to my business of making wooden versions of things that usually made in plastic
[10:26:54] <MattyMatt2> "advanced biopolymer composite" aka plywood
[10:27:25] <Jymmm> Wooden DVD's ?
[10:27:41] <MattyMatt2> DVD players would have a market
[10:28:07] <MattyMatt2> nice mahogany or teak front in the living room
[10:29:31] <MattyMatt2> with vintage LCD TVs
[10:29:57] <Jymmm> wooden bandaids?
[10:30:02] <MattyMatt2> with a fresnel on the front to make them look curved :)
[10:30:53] <Jymmm> wooden fresnel ?
[10:31:05] <MattyMatt2> now you're being silly
[10:31:37] <Jymmm> You're the one that said it, I'm only giving examples.
[10:32:29] <MattyMatt2> wooden keyboards I'm up for
[10:33:04] <Jymmm> already been done http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/wood_keyboard.jpg
[10:33:32] <MattyMatt2> I don't care, as long as the market isn't saturated
[10:33:45] <mrsun> awallin, hmm you have no documentation of how to use these libs do you ? :)
[10:34:11] <Jymmm> mrsun: Use the Source Luke!
[10:34:16] <mrsun> hehe =)
[10:34:23] <awallin> mrsun: not much. since nobody uses them. Not sure if that is cause or effect..
[10:34:26] <mrsun> almost always something to come with do you ? :P
[10:34:35] <mrsun> awallin, hehe =)
[10:35:20] <MattyMatt2> the 2nd user should write the docs, the author is too close to it
[10:35:30] <Jymmm> anyone know how to cut 1/8" and 1/4" cork sheet cleanly by chance?
[10:35:44] <MattyMatt2> without a waterjet?
[10:35:56] <Jymmm> w/o a waterjey
[10:35:58] <Jymmm> t
[10:36:28] <MattyMatt2> sharp wet xacto I think
[10:36:46] <MattyMatt2> and care not to drag and tear
[10:36:58] <Jymmm> It sorta kinda works, but rips a little still
[10:37:14] <MattyMatt2> maybe detergent too?
[10:37:25] <syyl> straight cuts?
[10:37:31] <Jymmm> yes
[10:38:00] <MattyMatt2> a paper guillotine would do it
[10:38:35] <syyl> clamp it down with a straightedge on a wooden board
[10:38:52] <syyl> and cut with an xacto knive
[10:38:57] <syyl> no chance to rip
[10:39:15] <Jymmm> it still seems to tear a bit, nothing like the factory edge.
[10:39:39] <syyl> otherwise go for a big sheetmetal shear ;)
[10:41:27] <Jymmm> I'll have to try a rotary cutter and see if that make a difference.
[10:41:36] <syyl> round blade?
[10:41:43] <syyl> good idea
[10:42:11] <jdhnc> yag?
[10:42:26] <Jymmm> co2
[10:42:33] <MattyMatt2> will scorch the edges
[10:43:12] <tom3p> joe9 there's 2 tools for sensitive drilling, the unit you found at McMaster and the Westhoff.
[10:43:13] <tom3p> The Westhoff allows much deeper small hole drilling , its like a manual gundrill
[10:43:20] <MattyMatt2> maybe less than wood tho, as cork is such a good insulator
[10:47:10] <mrsun> awallin, theres one thing with the text engraving tho, the straight lines should imo have another carve line that cuts them straight
[10:47:22] <mrsun> else you get strange Vs down in T joints etc
[10:48:30] <awallin> maybe... do you have a pic that shows this? the current algorithm is a medial-axis, and afaik from a geometrical point of view correct.
[10:49:44] <mrsun> hmm might be correct, just a feeling i had =)
[10:50:10] <mrsun> http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/vcp/images/vcarve_letter_t_animated.gif <-- looking at that it looks just like your paths
[10:50:25] <mrsun> might be the fact that it assumes 90 degree V bit that makes my lettering a bit strange =)
[10:53:51] <mrsun> awallin, but there was no way to set the actual tool for the stuff or? as not all V bits are 90 degrees :P
[10:56:31] <MattyMatt2> I got a 90, a 60 and a 45 in my set
[10:56:51] <mrsun> only got a 60 atm myself :(
[10:59:30] <awallin> mrsun: I pointed out the two lines with z-coords in ttt2medial.py earlier. just multiply with whatever you want there.
[10:59:56] <mrsun> awallin, yes but that only plunges the cutter deeper, does it take into acount that its not 90 degrees? :P
[11:00:13] <awallin> if the opening-angle is 60deg I would guess you need to push it deeper into the stock to make the same width-of-cut as with a 90deg cutter
[11:00:41] <awallin> what else would you want it to do as a function of cutter-angle?
[11:01:02] <mrsun> hmm might be true =)
[11:01:29] <mrsun> so realy what i need to do is to calculate how many times further down the point would have to be to get the same width as a 90 degree
[11:02:48] <jdhnc> does it do overlap for areas that are wider than tool width at that depth?
[11:03:21] <awallin> jdhnc: no we assume the cone has required width
[11:03:21] <mrsun> 1.224 would be the factor then i guess =)
[11:03:55] <awallin> mrsun: z = r / tan(alfa) where r is the correct depth for 90deg cutter and alfa is the cutter half-angle. maybe.
[11:07:19] <mrsun> awallin, calculated the C side length of a triangle at 45 degree half angle, A side 5mm and same with a 30 degree half angle and came up with the 1.224 factor =)
[11:08:18] <mrsun> gonna try it =)
[11:10:44] <awallin> I'm voting for 1/tan(30) = 1.732
[11:13:49] <pcw_home> Sorry the K street lobbyists will only accept 1/tan(30) = 2
[11:16:13] <awallin> pcw_home: that must be an inch/metric thingy then... :)
[11:16:20] <mikegg> the tax man keeps .268 ?
[11:17:40] <awallin> mrsun: have to run. post some pics if you get something cut!
[11:23:05] <MattyMatt2> I plan to set up a traditional drawing board, but I want encoder on the ruler, back projection, and a drawing tablet built in
[11:23:56] <mrsun_> awallin, ye seems that that didnt cut deep enough that i used, and i dont know if the bit is actualy 60 degree either, it can be 55 or whatever
[11:24:08] <mrsun_> do not find any means of measuring it with either :(
[11:25:02] <mrsun_> http://i43.tinypic.com/23ur6na.jpg
[11:25:04] <mrsun_> awallin,
[11:25:32] <MattyMatt2> take a close up pic of the tool :)
[11:27:29] <MattyMatt2> or plunge cut a hole and measure the width
[11:27:47] <archivist> and depth
[11:29:11] <archivist> with a vernier one could measure the length and width without cutting
[11:29:46] <jdhnc> I tried that with one of mine, could never find a definite palace to measure from
[11:30:16] <MattyMatt2> my V bits are half a cone
[11:30:27] <jdhnc> mine too
[11:30:57] <MattyMatt2> I can't tell if they are exactly half a cone, and could cut both ways
[11:31:00] <archivist> I cheat and use a measuring microscope
[11:33:02] <MattyMatt2> I'm tempted to turn my old microscope into one, but I'd rather use one of those webcam types
[11:33:35] <jdhnc> we have a bunch of 'dino-cams' we use for press tooling inspection
[11:34:40] <MattyMatt2> any webcam can focus pretty close if the lens screws out
[11:35:10] <archivist> I got lucky and found an angle measuring eyepiece
[11:41:48] <mrsun_> http://i44.tinypic.com/1z70zrr.jpg thats how it looks, now what do i do with it? :P=
[11:41:55] <mrsun_> bad pic tho =)
[11:41:58] <tom3p> i've used centering scopes that mount in spindles, but here's a projector, like a tiny shadowgraph http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/schaublin-cazeneuve-weiler-graziano-mori-seiki-lathes/isoma-scopes-146339/
[11:42:30] <mrsun_> awallin, http://i42.tinypic.com/21abtoo.jpg thats with the 1/tan(30) ... looks quite good, but the little dots by the left bottom of Z, wth is that? :/
[11:42:46] <mrsun_> insted of taking the cut from the ouside, it goes from the inside 0Z down to that point
[11:43:11] <mrsun_> imo it should go from either outside cutting down into the Z or from lower in the Z cutting out to the top of that point
[11:45:31] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: no dice with the new tip
[11:46:52] <danimal_laptop> i did notice a short between the electrode and the tip. is that supposed to be like that? i thought the tip was connected to the pilot, wich was in the same circuit as the grounding clamp
[11:47:36] <ssi_> I found a hardinge HNC to buy! Now I just gotta figure out how to get it home :P
[11:47:44] <danimal_laptop> sweet!
[11:47:52] <danimal_laptop> great little lathe i love mine
[11:47:53] <ssi> it's a thousand miles from me
[11:48:04] <JT-Shop> ship it
[11:48:05] <danimal_laptop> LOL yea thats a bit of a haul
[11:48:07] <ssi> yeah I've been looking wistfully at them ever since you sold me on it
[11:48:08] <ssi> heheh
[11:48:25] <ssi> my only concern about trying to freight it is the guy that has it can't load it
[11:48:35] <JT-Shop> http://www.plasma-cutter.com/technical.htm
[11:48:44] <ssi> I'm not sure what'd cost to have a trucker load it and freight it
[11:48:52] <ssi> getting into teh territory of rigging, and that shit aint cheap
[11:49:07] <jdhnc> rent a truck, go pick it up.
[11:49:12] <JT-Shop> truckers can't load usually, you would need to find a rigger
[11:49:18] <ssi> have access to a truck and trailer
[11:49:22] <JT-Shop> danimal_laptop: how heavy is the HNC?
[11:49:23] <ssi> just need to figure out logistics
[11:49:30] <mrsun_> why is it that 1/tan(30) on for example google, or python functions does not produce the same result as my calculator ? :)
[11:49:33] <ssi> the machine is like 2500lb, the control another 750
[11:49:42] <jdhnc> mrsun: rads vs. degrees?
[11:49:42] <danimal_laptop> yep, what he said
[11:49:42] <ssi> mrsun_: degrees vs radians?
[11:49:53] <mrsun_> ahh might be
[11:49:54] <JT-Shop> you can drag that onto your trailer with a couple of comealongs
[11:50:08] <ssi> the guy with it said he sold another one a month ago and that's how they did it
[11:50:14] <danimal_laptop> i can push my machine around by hand on the floor
[11:50:28] <danimal_laptop> ssi, flat bed tow truck.
[11:50:40] <ssi> that'd be nice, but probably prohibitive
[11:50:42] <ssi> that's how I moved my mill
[11:50:52] <danimal_laptop> its going to cost more than the machine to move it
[11:50:55] <danimal_laptop> no matter what
[11:50:56] <ssi> oh I'm sure it will
[11:51:04] <ssi> just trying to control how many times more :)
[11:51:11] <danimal_laptop> lol
[11:51:25] <danimal_laptop> pull the servo amps out and ditch the control
[11:51:33] <danimal_laptop> you dont need any of it
[11:51:34] <ssi> the amps are in the control?
[11:51:41] <danimal_laptop> that'll save you 750lbs
[11:51:43] <danimal_laptop> yes
[11:51:46] <danimal_laptop> on the door
[11:51:54] <ssi> I'm not concerned about the control tbh... the truck we have has a liftgate
[11:51:54] <danimal_laptop> 2 GE hiak amps
[11:51:57] <ssi> can put the control in the bed easily
[11:52:10] <danimal_laptop> not worth the hassle lol
[11:52:13] <ssi> what's the footprint dimensions of the machine?
[11:52:21] <danimal_laptop> hold on ill check
[11:52:24] <ssi> htx :D
[11:52:27] <ssi> thx even
[11:53:39] <danimal_laptop> about 6 feet long
[11:53:44] <danimal_laptop> 3.5 feet wide
[11:53:49] <danimal_laptop> 68" tall
[11:54:01] <danimal_laptop> fits in the bed of a pickup
[11:54:18] <ssi> most of the weight toward the headstock end?
[11:54:40] <danimal_laptop> i moved mine in a small penske box truck with a lift gate
[11:54:46] <danimal_laptop> yes
[11:54:50] <ssi> lift gate lifted it ok?
[11:54:59] <danimal_laptop> it was a little sketchy
[11:55:04] <danimal_laptop> but it worked
[11:55:09] <ssi> hrm
[11:55:39] <ssi> that truck probably has a stronger gate than our truck
[11:55:43] <danimal_laptop> i got the smallest one with a lift gate
[11:55:44] <ssi> but taht'd be amazing if it were doable
[11:55:59] <danimal_laptop> it was a 2000lb capacity lift gate
[11:56:31] <ssi> that'd be pretty amazing... way easier than dealing with a trailer
[11:56:48] <MattyMatt2> the exact figure is important if you're renting, for insurance purposes
[11:57:05] <ssi> nah I'm trying to avoid renting :)
[11:58:06] <danimal_laptop> you can probably always help it some with a jack
[11:58:32] <ssi> yeah
[11:58:43] <ssi> then the only other concern becomes how unhappy will a 3/4 ton truck be with 2500lb in the bed
[11:59:06] <mrsun_> awallin, strange looking at the gcode backplot from emc that thing i was talking about looks like it behaves as it should
[11:59:58] <danimal_laptop> ssi: very, but i moved more with a ford ranger lol
[12:00:02] <mrsun_> hmm or not
[12:00:02] <mrsun_> sigh
[12:00:06] <danimal_laptop> not 1000 miles
[12:00:29] <ssi> hehehe
[12:00:41] <ssi> so for reference, a penske truck is about $1400 one way
[12:00:47] <ssi> none of these show liftgates, but I'm sure one can be had
[12:00:48] <mrsun_> might be something with the font maybe
[12:01:11] <ssi> not counting the plane tickets
[12:01:23] <ssi> can do it with our truck for $500 in fuel
[12:02:15] <mikegg> ssi: where is it?
[12:02:29] <ssi> CT
[12:02:35] <ssi> DONT SNIPE IT FROM ME BRO :D
[12:02:40] <mikegg> hah
[12:03:07] <danimal_laptop> rent a trailer
[12:03:10] <ssi> have a trailer
[12:03:13] <mikegg> I'll never leave my South Bend !
[12:03:29] <ssi> ah, you're a lathe monogamist
[12:03:32] <danimal_laptop> use that, it's safer than moving it in the bed
[12:03:39] <ssi> yeah, you're right
[12:03:43] <danimal_laptop> and more legal
[12:03:54] <MattyMatt2> attach the trailer wheels and bar to the lathe
[12:03:55] <danimal_laptop> highway patrol and mess with you
[12:04:03] <danimal_laptop> haha MattyMatt2
[12:04:11] <danimal_laptop> good idea
[12:04:12] <ssi> get some good heavy duty casters
[12:04:15] <ssi> and a tow strap
[12:04:17] <mikegg> I bought mine in SC. Broke it down in to as many pieces as possible and put it on a single axle trailer
[12:04:42] <ssi> biggest thing I've moved is my 9x42 mill.. used a rollback for that, and only had to move it 50 miles
[12:04:43] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge-gallery.xhtml
[12:04:53] <ssi> moved a reid 2C surface grinder from mobile to atlanta, and that was interesting
[12:04:56] <ssi> but that sucker is top heavy
[12:05:01] <danimal_laptop> ssi, take my advice on the cabinet, there is nothing worth anything in there except for the amps
[12:05:07] <ssi> ok
[12:05:12] <ssi> guy said I could leave it with him
[12:05:16] <archivist> dont leave a southbend just become polygamous
[12:05:33] <JT-Shop> about 5k with all the crap that was inside
[12:05:39] <ssi> CHNC is a little fancier
[12:05:43] <danimal_laptop> ssi: all the good stuff is in the side cabinets on the lathe
[12:06:06] <ssi> good stuff being what... the spindle drive, coolant pump drive, etc?
[12:06:14] <danimal_laptop> i have the manuals for my lathe, it's 2500 lbs
[12:06:24] <danimal_laptop> no spindle drive, it's mechanical
[12:06:36] <ssi> oh right it's got that two clutch two speed thing
[12:06:47] <danimal_laptop> i mean solid state relays and even the servo power supply i believe
[12:06:58] <danimal_laptop> should be in the right side cabinet on the lathe
[12:06:58] <ssi> gotcha
[12:07:13] <ssi> guy says its in working condition
[12:07:20] <mikegg> I wonder what kind of TIR this would hold: http://www.ebay.com/itm/110723601666?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1233wt_1164
[12:07:22] <ssi> he had four of them and had them in production
[12:07:54] <danimal_laptop> they're all solid core wire inside for the most part
[12:08:01] <danimal_laptop> mine had a bunch of broken wires
[12:08:12] <ssi> yikes who thought that was a good idea
[12:08:16] <danimal_laptop> GE
[12:08:24] <danimal_laptop> is it a ge control?
[12:08:32] <ssi> yeah
[12:08:38] <ssi> GE 550T
[12:08:43] <danimal_laptop> giant one, like 7 feet tall?
[12:08:45] <danimal_laptop> yea
[12:08:57] <danimal_laptop> does it have a u-stor on it?
[12:09:05] <ssi> I don't know what you mean
[12:09:09] <danimal_laptop> memory thing on the front
[12:09:15] <ssi> oh, yes it does
[12:09:28] <danimal_laptop> keep that, i sold mine for like $100
[12:09:31] <ssi> haha ok
[12:09:36] <danimal_laptop> gas money lol
[12:09:38] <ssi> so basically just keep the door, eh
[12:09:54] <danimal_laptop> just pull the amps off, they're pretty easy to get to
[12:09:56] <ssi> honestly, if we're gonna trailer the machine home, it's trivial to liftgate the control into the bed and strap it
[12:10:22] <danimal_laptop> 750lbs extra might hurt your gas mileage and transmission life
[12:10:26] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the globe
[12:10:30] <ssi> praps!
[12:10:31] <danimal_laptop> hi
[12:10:35] <ssi> did you use the resolvers?
[12:10:38] <danimal_laptop> yes
[12:10:42] <danimal_laptop> they work good
[12:10:50] <danimal_laptop> i put an encoder on the spindle though
[12:10:59] <ssi> mesa?
[12:11:13] <danimal_laptop> its hard to put encoders on the axis because of the tach and all that crap
[12:11:23] <danimal_laptop> no, pico, it was before mesa had them
[12:11:35] <ssi> I mean for teh interface, not the encoder sry
[12:12:08] <danimal_laptop> ah, yes
[12:12:10] <ssi> just curious what you have to do for the resolvers
[12:12:15] <ssi> is there some sort of converter?
[12:12:27] <danimal_laptop> yea the pico boards, thats what i meant
[12:12:31] <ssi> ohh ok
[12:12:40] <ssi> http://pico-systems.com/resolver.html
[12:12:41] <danimal_laptop> mesa has some now though
[12:12:41] <ssi> that?
[12:12:44] <danimal_laptop> yes
[12:12:56] <danimal_laptop> cradek uses the pico boards too
[12:13:06] <ssi> that's a good reason to use them
[12:13:14] <ssi> the two of you will be a wealth of knowledge :D
[12:13:32] <danimal_laptop> we both got ours befre mesa made them though. i would have gone mesa if he had them
[12:13:38] <danimal_laptop> mainly for the support
[12:13:44] <ssi> gotcha
[12:13:47] <danimal_laptop> and i think mesa is cheaper
[12:14:01] <ssi> I'm using a mesa interface on my little g0602, been very happy with their stuff so far
[12:14:25] <ssi> but I don't really know anything about servo systems or resolvers, so it'll be an adventure
[12:14:25] <danimal_laptop> yea, i've built 3.5 machines so far with the mesa stuff. still have to finish the .5
[12:14:44] <danimal_laptop> good lathe to start on, it wasnt too hard.
[12:15:02] <danimal_laptop> the biggest pain was the tool turret
[12:15:08] <ssi> so what encoder did you use on the spindle?
[12:15:22] <danimal_laptop> just a cheapie
[12:15:27] <danimal_laptop> i dont know
[12:15:45] <ssi> I scratchbuilt one for my 602:
[12:15:45] <ssi> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205204_655375525742_71107655_34534452_5631970_n.jpg
[12:15:50] <ssi> works surprisingly well :D
[12:16:04] <danimal_laptop> if you use the mesa resolver card, i believe you'll have enough channels to use the resolver on the spindle as well
[12:16:19] <ssi> the mesa one supports six resolvers
[12:16:23] <danimal_laptop> i only went encoder because the pico boards are way more expensive than a cheap encoder
[12:16:57] <danimal_laptop> nice encoder!
[12:17:02] <ssi> thx :D
[12:17:18] <ssi> I used my scratchbuilt cnc plasma table to cut the disk
[12:17:25] <ssi> I have this huge bootstrapping problem
[12:17:32] <ssi> need machines to build machines
[12:17:32] <IchGuckLive> danimal_laptop: tol turret on Arduino Hal command ?
[12:17:49] <cncbasher> anyone good with solidworks ? taking a 2d dxf to 3d
[12:18:07] <danimal_laptop> IchGuckLive: classicladder
[12:18:11] <danimal_laptop> brb
[12:18:19] <JT-Shop> another perfect thread brought to you by the E.M.C.
[12:18:50] <IchGuckLive> cncbasher: use heekscad its free
[12:18:55] <ssi> JT-Shop: :D
[12:19:03] <ssi> I've got my threading down pat on my g0602
[12:19:12] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: you basically have to draw the solids from your dxf prints
[12:19:13] <archivist> cncbasher, since using solidworks /me has never touched another dxf, so cannot help at the moment
[12:19:38] <ssi> my boss asked me to make him a desk toy, so I made him a captured nut widget
[12:19:46] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: heekscad can extrude dxf sketches
[12:19:53] <ssi> http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/417616_799707338632_71107655_35427711_928588899_n.jpg
[12:20:02] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: unless it is really a 2.5 D part and you can extrude it
[12:20:22] <IchGuckLive> also pycam can do this in basic way
[12:20:40] <cncbasher> trying to join the sketches .. and they wont
[12:21:15] <IchGuckLive> cncbasher: can you upload the dxf ?
[12:21:23] <JT-Shop> that don't sound right "join the sketches"
[12:21:35] <archivist> ssi, well hidden join somewhere :)
[12:21:45] <IchGuckLive> i think he will extrude from one sketch to the other
[12:21:46] <ssi> yep :D
[12:22:14] <ssi> it's 3/8-20 in the center, and 5/8-11 outer thread
[12:22:17] <mikegg> i was going to guess witchcraft
[12:22:22] <ssi> SORCERY
[12:22:31] <archivist> ssi, I must make another box joint set of pliers
[12:23:04] <ssi> eh?
[12:23:37] <archivist> "impossible to take apart" as put together hot and forged
[12:23:44] <ssi> I see
[12:24:01] <ssi> this one can be taken apart if you really wanted to... I didn't threadlock it or anything
[12:24:11] <ssi> but I did use knipex pliers to put it together, and then machined the ends
[12:24:22] <ssi> and as slick as they are, you'd have to use vise grips or something to disassemble it
[12:25:42] <ssi> so I got fed up with sucking at threads, and I wrote an iphone app that takes a thread and spits out tolerance ranges and infeed data, both straight and compound, both full-form and sharp-V
[12:25:49] <ssi> and now I get my numbers right the first time every time :)
[12:26:05] <JT-Shop> neat, I just guess
[12:26:17] <ssi> yeah guessing wasn't working great for me :D
[12:26:24] <archivist> ssi http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product5523.html
[12:26:26] <ssi> I also got some wires and actually measure PDs
[12:26:39] <JT-Shop> does the app work on any iphone?
[12:26:45] <ssi> yeah
[12:26:51] <ssi> but I haven't submitted it or anything yet
[12:27:08] <ssi> I can get it submitted if you're interested in it
[12:27:20] <JT-Shop> yea, that would be neat
[12:27:30] <mikegg> I'd be interested too
[12:27:31] <ssi> it only does UN threads right now
[12:27:35] <JT-Shop> do you need a mak to write an app for an iphone?
[12:27:42] <ssi> yeah, more or less
[12:27:54] <JT-Shop> that leaves me out then
[12:28:37] <ssi> what I'll probably do is put this app on the store for money
[12:28:39] <ssi> two bucks or so
[12:28:39] <JT-Shop> ssi: that would be so cool to have thread data on your phone
[12:28:43] <ssi> and then give you guys redeem codes
[12:28:55] <ssi> lord knows you guys have helped me out enough :)
[12:29:05] <JT-Shop> cool, no marathon ads then
[12:29:10] <ssi> haha no, no ads
[12:29:16] <ssi> I hate ads in apps
[12:29:19] <JT-Shop> me too
[12:29:43] <JT-Shop> I delete them pretty fast when I figure that it is an ad monster
[12:29:51] <ssi> the only reason I haven't put it on the store as yet is that I wanted to get metric written first
[12:29:59] <ssi> but I haven't had time
[12:30:15] <ssi> btw the rules for how you calculate tolerances on UN threads are freakin insane
[12:30:27] <ssi> extremely complicated
[12:32:28] <danimal_laptop> gunna make it for android? lol
[12:32:50] <ssi> wasn't planning on it, but maybe I will :)
[12:32:59] <ssi> I've never done any android work
[12:33:42] <mrsun_> http://i44.tinypic.com/1ze9q88.jpg yey best so far =)
[12:34:05] <ssi> nice :D
[12:34:20] <ssi> someone needs to come motivate me into finishing my mill conversion :(
[12:37:36] <joe9> tom3p: thanks.
[12:38:08] <Cylly> re @ home.
[12:48:25] <mrsun> now if there was only a program written around awallins work it would be so great =)
[12:48:29] <mrsun> hes doing amazing work
[12:48:36] <ssi> what sort of work?
[12:48:39] <JT-Shop> cncbasher: if you want to send me the files I can take a look at them
[12:48:53] <mrsun> ssi, he is writing opencamlib, openvoronoi and stuff
[12:49:05] <ssi> I see
[12:49:09] <mrsun> his stuff that generated the toolpaths for that
[12:49:15] <ssi> I still havent gotten a firm grasp on lathe cam yet
[12:50:56] <_abc_> Does anyone know where I can buy small diameter carbon steel rod, ready to be made into specialized mill bits?
[12:51:10] <Spida> whats small?
[12:51:57] <pcw_home> That openvoronoi stuff looks really neat. I thought that that vcarved text might have been created with it
[12:55:20] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: figured out my high frequency circuit isnt working on the plasma
[12:57:42] <jthornton> can you fix it Dan?
[12:58:10] <danimal_laptop> i dont know
[12:58:12] <danimal_laptop> hope so
[12:58:23] <danimal_laptop> not exactly sure how they work
[13:00:28] <jthornton> I'm real sure that I don't know how they work :)
[13:02:54] <pcw_home> I think most are a glorified spark ignition system
[13:03:12] <danimal_laptop> thats what i thought
[13:03:32] <danimal_laptop> should i just replace it with an automotive coil? lol
[13:04:27] <danimal_laptop> wonder if that will work. it's just for the pilot
[13:04:34] <pcw_home> Theres a little more involved but all of the pieces should be replaceable
[13:04:35] <danimal_laptop> so it's momentary
[13:04:58] <danimal_laptop> pcw_home: it's an old plasma, there's not even any info online about it.
[13:05:32] <pcw_home> hers a home made one: http://www.casano.com/projects/hfstart/index.html
[13:08:10] <pcw_home> can you take a picture of the existing one?
[13:08:54] <A2Sheds> danimal_laptop, how's the new updated shop going?
[13:08:54] <pcw_home> probably easiest to fix what you already have
[13:09:10] <danimal_laptop> pcw_home: i can try
[13:09:17] <danimal_laptop> A2Sheds: no progress lol
[13:09:21] <danimal_laptop> been busy
[13:09:31] <A2Sheds> same here
[13:09:39] <danimal_laptop> brb lemme see if i can grab some pics
[13:11:15] <danimal_laptop> ok got pics
[13:11:18] <danimal_laptop> uploading now
[13:15:37] <danimal_laptop> pcw_home: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/sets/72157629468486855/
[13:16:19] <danimal_laptop> has voltage, i think the spark gap thing is possibly the culprit?
[13:20:07] <danimal_laptop> there's ac voltage between the 2 terminals on the spark gap block
[13:20:35] <danimal_laptop> but it's not buzzing like it should
[13:27:54] <jdhnc> what happens when you touch both of them?
[13:28:06] <danimal_laptop> my hair stands up
[13:28:12] <jdhnc> mpegs?
[13:30:08] <danimal_laptop> lol
[13:30:39] <danimal_laptop> the ceramic rings on it were cracked, not sure if that matters
[13:31:11] <pcw_home> If the spark gap distance is wrong that may be the problem
[13:32:31] <pcw_home> be very careful, the voltage across the spark gap is supposed to be many 1000s of volts (dont try to measure with VOM)
[13:32:51] <jdhnc> we have some welders that use cut-off spark plugs for arc starting
[13:33:14] <danimal_laptop> yea not messing with it with it pluged in lol
[13:33:52] <pcw_home> does the high voltage transformer (second photo split bobbin transformer) have primary (110,220v) power ?
[13:34:46] <pcw_home> maybe the control logic is not turning it on
[13:35:21] <danimal_laptop> not sure, i thought so since there's voltage at the electrode.
[13:35:30] <danimal_laptop> i can go check
[13:38:20] <pcw_home> Dont do the neutron dance...
[13:38:53] <danimal_laptop> lol
[13:41:05] <pcw_home> I would guess that something in the control is supposed to turn on the HF start circuit if the torch is on but theres no plasma current
[13:45:16] <danimal_laptop> there's current at the electrode
[13:46:09] <ssi> danimal_laptop: you doing a cnc table?
[13:49:26] <danimal_laptop> na
[13:49:51] <danimal_laptop> i epoxied the ceramic rings back together so i can reassemble it. time for lunch while it cures
[13:50:06] <danimal_laptop> be back in a bit! thanks for the guidance so far
[13:50:45] <ssi> the HF start on my tig welder sometimes causes my lathe spindle to start D:
[13:51:33] <Gast264> hallo everybody, have a question concerning parport connection
[13:52:54] <Gast264> parport0 claim failed emc2
[13:53:23] <Gast264> we have this error: parport0 claim failed emc2
[13:54:24] <danimal_laptop> lol
[14:07:45] <Gast264> other driver is using parport0
[14:07:56] <Gast264> how to switch it off?
[14:08:51] <jdhnc> what is using it?
[14:09:24] <jdhnc> rmmod lp;rmmod parport;rmmod parport_pc ?
[14:11:44] <Gast264> ok, we solved that, many thanks for the hint!
[14:12:36] <jdhnc> better solution is find out where/why lp loaded and get rid of it.
[14:30:33] <Gast264> we solved it, 3 axis running on emc2!!! yeah
[14:31:30] <joe9> jdhnc: you are correct. the drill press issue does not seem to be not the chuck or the arbor. It seems to the runout from the spindle/quill (0.002inches), which is getting magnified when the chuck is on it.
[14:31:48] <joe9> with the new smaller chuck and arbor, the runout is still 0.01 inches.
[14:33:53] <joe9> does anyone have any thoughts on changing the spindle bearing of a drill press. Is it a big deal? Unlike the machine-gods here, can a mere noob mortal like me do it?
[14:34:42] <mikegg> are you sure it's the bearings?
[14:35:20] <joe9> mikegg: don't know. It is definitely not the arbor. and, most probably not the chuck. as both the old and new chucks have a runout.
[14:35:27] <joe9> what else can it be?
[14:35:36] <mikegg> without an arbor or hydraulic press.....you'll need a big hammer
[14:36:17] <joe9> the manual talks about "bent bit or worn spindle bearings or drill bit not in chuck properly or chuck not properly installed"
[14:36:35] <joe9> I think I have covered all the above except for the spindle bearings.
[14:36:37] <mikegg> if the spindle bearings are worn, you should be able to measure some play
[14:37:00] <joe9> mikegg: at the tip of the spindle/quill, it measures a runout of 0.002 inches.
[14:37:02] <mikegg> put an indicator on it somewhere and see if you can wiggle it by hand?
[14:37:55] <joe9> I tried wiggling it by hand, it was wiggling. but, once I tightened the screw that adjusts the wiggle, it has not wiggled atleast to my touch/feel.
[14:38:10] <joe9> mikegg: that is how I am measuring runout.
[14:38:36] <joe9> put a dial indicator on the quill/spindle, and rotate the top belt-held portion.
[14:38:47] <joe9> I removed the belts to avoid other issues.
[14:38:55] <joe9> mikegg: does that make sense?
[14:39:40] <joe9> mikegg: there is a 0.002 inch runout at the quill. But, adding an arbor and chuck, I think, is amplifying that runout.
[14:39:57] <joe9> when I add a transfer punch to the chuck, I can see the wobble with my eyes.
[14:40:09] <joe9> even at the chuck, the runout is 0.010 inches.
[14:40:24] <mikegg> the arbor might not be fully seated?
[14:40:27] <joe9> at the arbor end, the runout is 0.003 inches.
[14:41:01] <mikegg> so between the arbor and two different chucks you are adding .007 runout?
[14:41:28] <joe9> with the arbor, at the arbor end, runout = 0.003 inches.
[14:41:39] <joe9> big chuck runout = 0.015 inches
[14:41:48] <joe9> small chuck runout = 0.010 inches
[14:42:37] <mikegg> seems a little high, but it might just be the chucks
[14:42:40] <joe9> with the new arbor, I did not want to destroy the arbor and hence hand pressed it, ensuring that it was a snug fit. It was tight enough that I could not pull it out with the hand. I had to use a wedge key.
[14:42:55] <joe9> mikegg: the small chuck is a new one.
[14:44:17] <joe9> i just bought it this morning from Mcmastercarr just to test the whole setup.
[14:48:15] <mikegg> is it an older drill press? my R8 arbors were really sticky. I polished the bore with a dremel and a soft fuzzy wheel. worked wonders
[14:49:57] <jdhnc> sounds like the arbors are fine
[14:50:20] <jdhnc> tried bluing the arbor and checking the arbor/chuck fitup?
[14:51:55] <jdhnc> mt3?
[14:53:39] <joe9> mikegg: it is a central machinery 38142 drill press. I bought it used from a carpenter.
[14:54:03] <joe9> I would not be surprised if he abused it enough and got rid of it when he noticed the spindle/quill was off.
[14:54:14] <joe9> jdhnc: yes, the arbors are fine.
[14:55:01] <joe9> jdhnc: I tried with the old arbor + old chuck and the new arbor + new chuck with similar runout (0.010 inches).
[14:55:17] <joe9> at this point, it might be something else other than the chuck/arbor.
[14:56:03] <IchGuckLive> hi joe9
[14:56:11] <IchGuckLive> how is your mill growing
[14:56:30] <joe9> IchGuckLive: hello. I am working on the drill press. put the mill to hold at the moment for the next few weeks.
[14:56:35] <joe9> IchGuckLive: thanks for asking.
[14:56:49] <IchGuckLive> O.o
[14:58:28] <joe9> jdhnc: "tried bluing the arbor and checking the arbor/chuck fitup?" what is bluing? or, did you mean gluing?
[14:58:47] <joe9> I could not figure out how to check the chuck/arbor runout without attaching to the drillpress.
[14:58:53] <joe9> Is there a way to do that?
[15:04:16] <mrsun> hmm, got a svg file that i want carved now, dunno how the heck to do that :P
[15:04:31] <mrsun> the awallin script worked fine for just outputting some text, but i want more ... :P
[15:05:42] <mikegg> with bluing, you would paint the arbor with special compound that rubs off easily. Then insert it into the chuck, pull out it and look at what's left to see if the two parts are mating properly
[15:05:45] <mrsun> realy starting to think about buying something like vcarve pro or something =)
[15:06:22] <mrsun> and use real bluing compound, its non abrasive =)
[15:06:46] <jdhnc> prussian blue in solution
[15:06:55] <mrsun> mm
[15:07:01] <joe9> mikegg: do you think I should do that? given that I have similar readings with different chuck+arbor combo's.
[15:07:03] <jdhnc> get a spray can from mcmaster!
[15:07:27] <jdhnc> mrsun: I bought a copy of cut2d, it is very nice for what it does.
[15:07:30] <mikegg> yeah, that's a good idea - I was waiting for someone more experienced to weigh in on the issue :)
[15:07:54] <mikegg> I don't have any bluing compound - dry erase marker?
[15:08:05] <joe9> jdhnc: mikegg: do you know if homedepot carries that bluing compound?
[15:08:18] <mrsun> cut2d is light version of vcarvepro ? :)
[15:08:22] <joe9> mcmastercarr and harborfreight are an hour's drive for me.
[15:08:40] <joe9> just curious if there is something else that I can get locally.
[15:08:46] <jdhnc> mrsun: it does 2d CAM
[15:09:02] <mrsun> jdhnc, ye just asking cause they had a cut2d to vcarvepro upgrade option :P
[15:09:08] <jdhnc> maybe 2.5d
[15:09:43] <mrsun> vcarvepro is a bit expensive for the limited use i ahve still for it tho
[15:09:59] <mrsun> and one more problem, not a single windows box in my house =)
[15:10:25] <jdhnc> it runs in virtualbox
[15:10:46] <jdhnc> I've heard cut2d works in wine, but didn't try it.
[15:11:07] <mrsun> supposed to do yes, vcarvepro also, but wine is almost always dodgy :/
[15:11:52] <mrsun> only thing that has worked flawlessly for me is World of Warcraft =)
[15:12:08] <jdhnc> I'm sorry.
[15:14:24] <jdhnc> joe9: dry-erase might work, never tried it. Might not tell you anything anyway. If the arbors are true, it's proably just inherent in the chucks. They are not known for precision.
[15:14:57] <joe9> jdhnc: thanks. will check it.
[15:22:20] <jdhnc> get an X2 and some collets. Then you can CNC it later
[15:22:34] <jdhnc> it will still be an X2, but it will be much coole.
[15:22:37] <jdhnc> or cooler.
[15:22:51] <joe9> jdhnc: was that for me?
[15:22:58] <mrsun> omg for programs that is hardcoded to one freakin size
[15:22:58] <jdhnc> yep
[15:23:14] <joe9> what is X2? a milling machine or drill press or chuck?
[15:23:15] <mrsun> yes linuxcnc, and yes some inkscape plugins
[15:23:28] <joe9> jdhnc: i want to get to cnc at some point.
[15:23:38] <jdhnc> joe9: small seig mill, sold by Harbor freight, grizzly, others.
[15:23:39] <joe9> and your suggestion is right up the alley
[15:24:02] <jdhnc> I found one on craigslist for $200, still new in grease.
[15:24:18] <joe9> jdhnc: really, good to know. thanks. will check it.
[15:24:30] <joe9> HF has it for $500.
[15:24:32] <jdhnc> but, I've searched craigslist every day for 3 years before I found it :)
[15:25:05] <jdhnc> afaik, they don't stock them in stores anymore, you have to order them.
[15:26:15] <joe9> haha..
[15:28:06] <mrsun> i dont get it wy there is so freakin many gcode generating programs for windows but like none of any quality for linux :/
[15:31:25] <jdhnc> s/gcode generating //
[15:32:11] <mrsun> dont know the quality of the windows programs but hell, all i want is a V carve program for linux :(
[15:32:18] <mrsun> and a 3d milling program
[15:32:21] <mrsun> etc :P
[15:38:50] <joe9> if i am going to change the spindle bearing, are there any other mods that I can do to make the drill-press better?
[15:38:59] <joe9> such as multiple spindle, etc.
[15:41:09] <mikegg> if it has radial contact bearings, try to replace them with angular..
[15:41:31] <mikegg> but that can get complicated
[15:43:09] <jdhnc> It's a $175ish drill press
[15:43:49] <jdhnc> the bearings won't help the chuck
[15:44:47] <joe9> jdhnc: what do you recommend?
[15:45:07] <jdhnc> not throwing more money at a cheap chinese drill press?
[15:45:16] <jdhnc> unless you have a need for a marginally better chinese drill press.
[15:45:23] <joe9> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWwmgC_TkBQ found this video to replace a drill press spindle.
[15:45:30] <mikegg> hah
[15:46:00] <jdhnc> how much did you pay for it?
[15:46:39] <joe9> jdhnc: $100.
[15:46:57] <joe9> it is a big chunk of steel. I think a little here and there might make it better.
[15:47:03] <joe9> s/steel/metal/
[15:47:06] <joe9> pretty solid.
[15:47:34] <joe9> jdhnc: let me atleast check the spindle bearings. Don't you think that it is a good idea to do that?
[15:47:46] <joe9> jdhnc: everything else seems pretty tight.
[15:48:19] <jdhnc> good bearings will cost more than the drill press.
[15:48:50] <joe9> jdhnc: most of the good machines (milling or drilling) are in the $500 range.
[15:51:50] <jdhnc> for some definition of 'good' :)
[15:56:17] <mikegg> it really depends on what you want to do with it. which is something I routinely overlook. for some projects, chinese is good enough..
[15:56:54] <ssi> nothing wrong with chinese machines... but $500 is pretty low-end
[16:06:54] <MattyMatt2> joe9, that's more than I paid for mine :) Silverline is almost a synonym for Second Rate
[16:07:47] <MattyMatt2> I got bored with getting sniped on nice old Meddings ones
[16:11:50] <mrsun> hmm inkscape and f-engrave worked together quite niceley ...
[16:17:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:20:45] <mrsun> hmm in my case when it comes to my drillpress its not the spindle bearings thats moving, its the actual quill hole that is oversized ...
[16:29:42] <MattyMatt2> same here, just been to check mine over
[16:30:03] <MattyMatt2> that vid gives me the confidence to take it apart and shim it
[16:31:35] <MattyMatt2> and fit an encoder while I'm at it
[16:31:47] <joe9> just opened up the spindle and I see same play (runout = 0.002 inches) in the quill that I noticed when it was in the drillpress. I figure it is the bearings at this point.
[16:31:57] <joe9> that is getting amplified when I put the chuck in it.
[16:32:35] <danimal_laptop> dang it doesnt look like this plasma's gunna work
[16:32:44] <joe9> let me get the bearings out and see how they are
[16:33:03] <MattyMatt2> what is that in ABEC terms? up to ABEC 7 bearings aren't too expensive
[16:34:03] <MattyMatt2> I'd be surprised if you can measure a bare bearing without a long lever to revela the play
[16:38:10] <joe9> i do not know if this is a bad/good thing. when I hit the spindle to remove it with the bearings. The spindle moved out, but the bearings are still in the quill.
[16:38:34] <joe9> I guess that means the bearings are too lose around the spindle,
[16:38:46] <joe9> now, I have to figure out how to get the bearings out of the quill.
[16:39:31] <joe9> any suggestions, folks.
[16:39:45] <jdhnc> bearing puller
[16:39:47] <joe9> both the top and bottom bearings are in the hollow quill.
[16:40:01] <joe9> jdhnc: ok, thanks.
[16:40:16] <joe9> jdhnc: quick question, does it mean that the bearings are loose?
[16:40:20] <MattyMatt2> was the slop due to the spindle being undersized?
[16:40:42] <MattyMatt2> fit it back in and see if that's the problem
[16:41:01] <jdhnc> they are plain radial ball bearings?
[16:41:14] <joe9> jdhnc: yes, I think so. how can I tell?
[16:41:34] <MattyMatt2> rubber seals?
[16:41:36] <joe9> MattyMatt2: or, the bearings were not binding to the spindle for some other reason.
[16:42:21] <MattyMatt2> should be a close fit with some friction at least
[16:43:40] <MattyMatt2> you can put the spindle in one bearing and use it as a lever to see if the bearings have play
[16:44:01] <joe9> just checked the bearings, they have metal bottom and inside (I cannot see the other sides).
[16:44:27] <joe9> MattyMatt2: I am sure it is a close fit, as I had to hammer the spindle to get it out.
[16:44:43] <joe9> in the video, hammering the spindle removed both the spindle and bearings
[16:44:57] <joe9> whereas, for me, the spindle slipped out. not the bearings with it.
[16:45:00] <MattyMatt2> there should be a number stamped on the metal shield (followed by Z or ZZ to tell you the metal shield is a metal shield ;)
[16:45:49] <jdhnc> maybe a dowel through the opposite end, and gently tap out the bearing
[16:46:07] <MattyMatt2> yep delrin dowel is what I'd use
[16:46:10] <joe9> "ckbe 6204Z"
[16:46:23] <MattyMatt2> sweet, that's a common cheap size
[16:47:01] <MattyMatt2> at least the cheap ones are cheap
[16:47:05] <joe9> on the other end, "pl8 6201z"
[16:47:18] <MattyMatt2> and another
[16:47:40] <MattyMatt2> vxb will sell you replacements of various qualities
[16:48:00] <MattyMatt2> ckbe and pl8 are the manufacturer I think
[16:48:21] <MattyMatt2> 6204 and 6201 are the sizes
[16:48:54] <MattyMatt2> Z is the metal shield, which is optional
[16:49:20] <MattyMatt2> probably best for a drill press, but the RS type are more waterproof if you ever use coolant
[16:50:21] <joe9> the bottom bearing, I can put my finger in it. When I try to move my finger, I detect a slight sideways movement.
[16:50:48] <MattyMatt2> I'd be tempted to replace the bottom one with a thrust bearing
[16:51:04] <MattyMatt2> taper roller type etc
[16:51:30] <jdhnc> huh?
[16:52:24] <MattyMatt2> tempted I say :) I'd think it though and take advice and work out how I'd tighten them
[16:52:47] <joe9> jdhnc: you mentioned a dowel yesterday too. Do you think a "dowel" is a must-have tool? I have the machinist's transfer punch. Is the transfer punch a good alternative?
[16:53:01] <jdhnc> joe9: it's a piece of round wood.
[16:53:25] <jdhnc> so you don't scratch/mar/etc the surfaces.
[16:53:28] <joe9> that i have.
[16:53:36] <joe9> good idea, thanks. will do so.
[16:53:51] <MattyMatt2> I'd use round delrin stock because I have some and it won't splinter
[16:54:57] <jdhnc> you can get an angular contact bearing for $104
[16:55:14] <pfred1> I looked all over LinuxCNC's website and I couldn't find links to any tarballs of the source tree
[16:56:02] <jdhnc> pfred1: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git
[16:56:09] <pfred1> so then I finally broke down and used that filthy dirty git nonsense
[16:56:14] <jdhnc> heh
[16:56:30] <MattyMatt2> one reason I'd choose angled/tapered needle is you can tighten them like a bike wheel to remove all slop, even if the bearings are cheap
[16:56:41] <pfred1> does anyone even look at that code?
[16:56:56] <jdhnc> I can't see what a thrust bearing would mate against.
[16:57:44] <pfred1> the last news item in the NEWS file is dated 2009.06.13
[16:57:51] <joe9> jdhnc: got the bearings out. the "wooden dowel" was a brilliant idea.
[16:59:00] <joe9> now, I need to tell if the bearings are really bad.
[16:59:04] <pfred1> this is what heads the TODO file: "THINGS THAT ARE DESIRABLE FOR THE NEXT MAJOR RELEASE (EMC-2.4)"
[16:59:23] <pfred1> joe9 what color are they?
[16:59:31] <joe9> silver
[16:59:42] <pfred1> are they scored or scratched?
[17:00:18] <pfred1> if no goto grease tub and repack
[17:00:39] <jdhnc> sealed
[17:00:52] <pfred1> then pop the seal
[17:01:07] <pfred1> I never met a bearing seal I couldn't remove
[17:01:17] <joe9> i do not see any scratches, but, I can see a little play when I exert sidewards pressure.
[17:01:21] <joe9> Is that expected?
[17:01:31] <joe9> little play to the side using my fingers.
[17:02:04] <pfred1> I think manufactuers seal bearings just so you can't repack them
[17:02:05] <joe9> jdhnc: yes, sealed.
[17:02:19] <pfred1> just jamb an awl int othe seal it'll pop off
[17:03:46] <joe9> when I press on the bearing from the top/bottom, I can see that it moves a little.
[17:03:52] <pfred1> I've had to scrape away that black crud they use on the seals to hold them in sometimes too
[17:04:14] <joe9> let me check youtube.com for some instructional videos on checking bearings.
[17:04:35] <pfred1> until you can get down to the balls of the matter there isn't much you can do
[17:04:36] <MattyMatt2> cheap ones are only $1.95 at vxb
[17:05:09] <pfred1> but if they're not yellow or blue or black and they're not all scored all you need ot do is repack them
[17:05:20] <MattyMatt2> they only do cheap, stainless or ceramic though, you want good quality steel ones
[17:05:29] <jdhnc> cheap ones are cheap
[17:05:56] <MattyMatt2> I'm presuming in a cheap drill press that's what they are
[17:06:16] <pfred1> heck I took apart a bosch router recently and it had cheap imported bearings in it
[17:06:16] <joe9> they are not yellow or blue or black and not scored.
[17:06:29] <joe9> Is it a big deal to repack them?
[17:06:39] <pfred1> got grease?
[17:06:41] <jdhnc> or would tehy benefit from repacking
[17:06:50] <pfred1> yeah they're run like new
[17:06:52] <MattyMatt2> ah vxb have a C3 spec one for $6.88
[17:06:54] <joe9> pfred1: as you are aware, I had a runout of 0.002 inches with these bearings.
[17:06:59] <joe9> I am trying to get rid of that.
[17:07:19] <pfred1> repack them you'd be surprised what some grease can do
[17:07:19] <joe9> I do not mind spending some money < $100 to get rid of this runout.
[17:07:29] <joe9> i have a lot of grease.
[17:07:35] <pfred1> do it
[17:07:46] <joe9> ok, thanks. will do.
[17:07:48] <pfred1> I repacked my mill's spindle and it helped a lot
[17:08:01] <pfred1> it is probably due again
[17:08:08] <MattyMatt2> fill your boots http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-15-SKF-Federal-Mogul-Bearings-G72-MSA-6204-RSJ-6201-2RSJ-6585-/290674449990
[17:08:32] <pfred1> I use wheel bearing grease
[17:08:43] <joe9> pfred1: I do not mind repacking them. When the current runout is 0.002inches, will repacking them remove that? It needs to be so accurate, am not sure if I can ever get these bearings to that accuracy.
[17:08:50] <joe9> pfred1: does that make sense?
[17:09:09] <pfred1> are they bone dry?
[17:09:32] <joe9> no, I have not opened them still.
[17:09:35] <pfred1> like are they spinning really easily
[17:09:45] <pfred1> you should be able to tell if they're loaded or not
[17:09:51] <joe9> pfred1: no, they are not.
[17:09:57] <pfred1> a loaded bearing won't even spin
[17:10:01] <joe9> they are pretty tight. they stop spinning as soon as I let go.
[17:10:20] <pfred1> then maybe they're just sloppy
[17:10:41] <pfred1> it sounds to me like you might not get all you're looking for out of a repack
[17:10:54] <joe9> good to know. thanks.
[17:11:10] <pfred1> might get something if they were empty I might have said it should work but as you describe it I don't know
[17:11:36] <joe9> what are the best bearings which are accurate (at <= $100)?
[17:11:45] <pfred1> grease can do a lot but if you already have some it isn't a miracle salve
[17:12:09] <MattyMatt2> SKF are one of the good known brands
[17:12:36] <pfred1> so this is a drill press?
[17:12:42] <joe9> yes, drill press.
[17:12:47] <joe9> central machinery 38142
[17:14:32] <MattyMatt2> ah C3 is only ABEC 3. you can get better than that
[17:15:06] <MattyMatt2> so I guess the $2 ones are ABEC 1 or worse
[17:15:24] <pfred1> I'm looking at hte exploded view of it where the heck are the lower bearings?
[17:15:58] <joe9> #12 in page 4
[17:15:59] <pfred1> there is just the #9 on the spindle I see
[17:16:18] <pfred1> ah 12 slips all the way down
[17:16:22] <joe9> #9 is the small one and #12 is the big one at the bottom.
[17:16:29] <joe9> yes.
[17:16:32] <pfred1> yeah there is uppers and lowerso n spindles
[17:16:36] <pfred1> the lower is the one that matters
[17:16:54] <pfred1> the upper well do you drill up there?
[17:17:25] <pfred1> I'll say this right now the scuzz that passes for grease in china you're always better off replacing it
[17:17:29] <joe9> there is a little bit of play on the lower one.
[17:17:47] <pfred1> I think it is how they get rid of their toxic waste
[17:18:44] <pfred1> seriously they use really low performance lubricants
[17:18:46] <joe9> it looks pretty tightly sealed. I doubt I will have the accuracy by changing the grease of this ball bearing.
[17:19:02] <joe9> It might be a pita to get the seal out.
[17:19:12] <pfred1> oh yeah they don't make it easy
[17:19:18] <MattyMatt2> I think a branded abec3/3+ 6204 will sort you out. looks like $7 will do it from various suppliers
[17:19:23] <pfred1> then run the one you popped up
[17:19:53] <jdhnc> mcmaster has bearings.
[17:20:15] <joe9> no, they are different sizes (up = PL8 6201z and bottom = CKBC 6204Z)
[17:20:33] <pfred1> don't drill usually align themselves when they contact work?
[17:21:16] <joe9> jdhnc: what do you think of "thrust bearings"? I read about them on wikipedia and they seem to have no issues with lateral travel
[17:21:30] <joe9> so, probably will never develop slop again with the "thrust bearings".
[17:21:37] <pfred1> joe9 are you trying to mill with your drill?
[17:21:54] <pfred1> because that never really works
[17:21:56] <joe9> pfred1: not now, though that would be cool to do in future.
[17:22:02] <pfred1> no don't do it
[17:22:10] <joe9> oh, ok. good to know. thanks.
[17:22:12] <pfred1> drill presses don't have the spindles for it
[17:22:29] <joe9> ok, thanks. will not do so.
[17:22:29] <pfred1> if yo usaw the size of the spindle on my mill which is a POS you'd know
[17:22:51] * MattyMatt2 currently mills with a dremel
[17:23:09] <pfred1> like how big around is your #11 piece?
[17:23:14] <MattyMatt2> and it wasn't the weak point on my machine :p
[17:23:39] <MattyMatt2> probably is now I've fixed up the machine a bit
[17:24:23] <joe9> pfred1: the bottom hole is around 5 cm.
[17:24:49] <MattyMatt2> 47mm is the OD of a 6204
[17:25:10] <pfred1> oh wait a minute I think what I'm measuring on my mill coorponds to your #13 piece
[17:25:29] <joe9> so, ABEC-7 is the best out there?
[17:25:32] <pfred1> and it is 75mm in diameter
[17:26:10] <pfred1> the spindle shaft
[17:26:22] <joe9> pfred1: the bottom is 1.5 cm
[17:26:32] <joe9> and the top thin portion is 0.5 cm
[17:26:39] <joe9> or 0.6cm 'ish.
[17:26:45] <pfred1> joe9 drill presses are designed to push straight down
[17:27:08] <pfred1> they're not designed for laterlal loads at all even if you changed the bearings stuff is just too small
[17:27:14] <joe9> pfred1: it would very cool to have it mill. but, I do not care about it right now. have no plans.
[17:27:36] <joe9> but, at some point in future, when I plan on building a cnc milling machine, I could reuse this.
[17:27:38] <pfred1> yeah people do it and they're unhappy and end up wrecking their machines
[17:27:47] <MattyMatt2> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5204-ZZ-Premium-Double-Row-Bearing-20x47x20-6-ABEC-3-/220322483913
[17:27:58] <MattyMatt2> could you fit a thicker one it?
[17:27:59] <joe9> pfred1: but, if it is a biggie, i am not bothered to make this a mill.
[17:28:06] <pfred1> I mean you'd be able to do soft stuff like plastic
[17:28:20] <joe9> pfred1: if I need it, it would be for milling pcb's.
[17:28:22] <pfred1> but even aluminum might be pushing it
[17:28:34] <pfred1> how high RPM is your mill?
[17:28:38] <pfred1> drill
[17:28:40] <joe9> 3600rpm
[17:28:47] <pfred1> yeah that is beans to a PCB
[17:29:11] <pfred1> the smallest diameter bit you can run is about an 1/8th of an inch
[17:29:27] <pfred1> i mean you can run smaller but you're under driving it
[17:29:44] <joe9> why do you say that? I am planning on drilling using a 0.5 mm bit (1/72inch)
[17:29:57] <joe9> are you talking about milling?
[17:30:01] <pfred1> you need periphery speed to make chips climb the flutes
[17:30:13] <pfred1> or they jamb up
[17:30:38] <joe9> let's forget about milling. I want to get it to drill without a runout.
[17:30:41] <pfred1> I mean it works but it doesn't work as wel las it could or should
[17:30:58] <pfred1> once the bit is on the stock the bit itself should run true
[17:31:19] <pfred1> the nise of the drill bit will act as a bearing
[17:31:20] <joe9> i was drilling 1/32inch holes and was ok with it. other than the runout and issues, it was drilling like butter.
[17:31:22] <pfred1> nose
[17:31:44] <pfred1> yeah don't ever expect a twist drill to yield al lthat accurate a hole
[17:31:48] <MattyMatt2> somebody asked me if his 400k rpm air powered spindle was suitable for pcb work. I said yes and I'm not jealous
[17:31:50] <pfred1> that is why they make reamers
[17:33:28] <pfred1> let's calculate your surface speed with a 1/32 bit
[17:34:24] <pfred1> 29.45 SFPM
[17:34:45] <pfred1> when you should be running 50 or better
[17:34:55] <joe9> pfred1: i was seeing a runout of 0.010 inches at the chuck.
[17:35:02] <pfred1> I'm not saying it won't work it just won't work as well as it should
[17:35:05] <joe9> I figure it is because of the sloppy spindle bearings
[17:35:25] <joe9> I want to get rid of that large runout. a runout of 0.005 inches is ok, imho.
[17:35:49] <pfred1> well you need some or your spindle won't rotate
[17:36:19] <pfred1> try this hold a drill down on some stock and check your runout
[17:36:44] <pfred1> like crank down on the handle on a piece of metal and measure it turning it by hand
[17:37:03] <pfred1> like don't measure it with the chuck floating in the air
[17:37:14] <pfred1> load it
[17:37:34] <pfred1> because that is all that really matters
[17:39:53] <pfred1> this thing is marketed as a heavy duty drill press not a fine precision instrument
[17:40:17] <pfred1> I'm sure it knocks holes in stuff great
[17:41:16] <pfred1> I'm not so sure you can expect much more of it either
[17:41:46] <joe9> MattyMatt2: i do not need angular bearings as this is just for drilling. do you agree?
[17:42:10] <joe9> pfred1: are you saying that a runout of 0.010 " is ok?
[17:42:20] <joe9> with the chuck not loaded.
[17:42:34] <pfred1> joe9 I'm saying when you're loaded on work your runout is going to change
[17:42:44] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[17:43:20] <pfred1> it isn't something that is intuitive but think about it the drill bit itself is like another bearing and your bearings will be pushed too
[17:43:37] <archivist> with .01" runout either adjust of never use for fine work
[17:43:44] <archivist> fo/or
[17:44:29] <joe9> archivist: that is what I am doing. I have the spindle bearings out.
[17:44:41] <joe9> there is a small sloppyness in the spindle bearings.
[17:44:54] <joe9> I am thinking of replacing with an ABEC-7 bearing and see how it goes.
[17:45:05] <MattyMatt2> angular bearings is a luxury perhaps. they'd last longer doing lots of heavy drilling
[17:45:24] <pfred1> it is a heavy duty drill press
[17:45:39] * pfred1 beats the snot out of drill presses
[17:45:43] <archivist> it is the wrong drill press for fine work
[17:45:50] <joe9> pfred1: I am not disputing what you are saying. I am just trying to make the best out of the situation.
[17:46:13] <pfred1> most drill issues are with the drills themselves
[17:46:26] <pfred1> and i don't mean the drill press
[17:46:34] <joe9> oh, ok. the spindle or quill is off, you say.
[17:46:37] <MattyMatt2> would the double row one fit? it's 6.6mm thicker than a 6204
[17:47:08] <MattyMatt2> presumably 2 rows is twice as good, and the quality sounds nice
[17:47:16] <pfred1> no one in their right mind expects accuracy with twist drills anyways
[17:47:33] <joe9> MattyMatt2: thickness of the shaft is around 1.3 cm
[17:47:51] <MattyMatt2> 6204 is 20mm ID
[17:48:11] <joe9> pfred1: "As to how much run-out is acceptable, I'd say that 2 thou total runout is reasonable for a cheap drill press," from http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?26529-Drill-Press-Runout-what-is-reasonable
[17:48:14] <MattyMatt2> but I've also seen 6204 - blahblah with 3/4" ID
[17:48:51] <MattyMatt2> 6201 is 12mm ID
[17:49:08] <pfred1> joe9 measured where?
[17:49:31] <archivist> and how
[17:49:35] <pfred1> indeed
[17:49:44] <joe9> pfred1: good point. don't know and how, too?
[17:50:04] <pfred1> all I know is the machine is going to be different just sitting there as opposed to when it is actually engaged in drilling stock
[17:50:07] <archivist> is there any bending or machine flexing happening
[17:50:16] <pfred1> and when it is drilling is all that really matters
[17:50:44] <pfred1> it just isn't the kind of stuff i lose sleep over
[17:50:52] <pfred1> if it stops spinning around then I worry
[17:52:01] <pfred1> I can shake the spindle of my mill and it moves but it cuts accuratly for it
[17:52:25] <pfred1> be cause once it is on work it ain't moving no more!
[17:53:37] <MattyMatt2> it's nicer if there's no vibration & stuff tho
[17:53:38] <joe9> in this case, I think the "cylindrical bearings" might be a better choice.
[17:53:40] <archivist> is the spindle ok just a bad chuck
[17:54:02] <archivist> find the fault first
[17:54:03] <MattyMatt2> joe9 yeah if you can get the right size
[17:54:11] <joe9> http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/bearing.htm
[17:54:17] <joe9> i agree.
[17:54:29] <joe9> archivist: I think it is the spindle bearings at this point.
[17:54:46] <joe9> with a new chuck and arbor, I see the same runout as the old chuck + arbor
[17:55:14] <joe9> so, it is not the chuck or arbor. and, the other is the spindle bearing.
[17:55:31] <pfred1> then measure the taper but I still don't think when the chuck is up in the air matters
[17:55:33] <joe9> with the bearing, when I exert sideways pressure, I can see the bearing moving a little.
[17:55:34] <MattyMatt2> or the taper inside the spindle is not true
[17:55:43] <joe9> hence, I am assuming it is the bearing at this point.
[17:55:53] <archivist> remove end float before you measure or replace
[17:56:06] <pfred1> they don't call it a drill PRESS for nothing you know?
[17:56:15] <joe9> archivist: what is "end float"?
[17:56:22] <archivist> play
[17:56:30] <archivist> add a spring
[17:56:53] <archivist> wavy spring at the top
[17:57:09] <joe9> MattyMatt2: where do you get the bearing size?
[17:57:21] <joe9> I cannot seem to find them with google. and mcmaster has inches ratings.
[17:57:27] <joe9> s/ratings/specs/
[17:57:43] <MattyMatt2> ebay :)
[17:58:02] <pfred1> mcmaster doesn't give dimensions in metric?
[17:58:38] <MattyMatt2> just search for 6204 and 6201 and that'll take you to the bearing vendors, and then search their shop for those numbers to get their range
[17:58:48] <joe9> it does, I am trying to figure out what the sizes of "6201Z" correspond to, in metric/sae.
[17:58:57] <joe9> MattyMatt2: ok, thanks.
[17:59:52] <MattyMatt2> Z implies only one side shielded, both sides is usually ZZ
[18:00:06] <pfred1> whoah if you want an Ultra-Precision Angular-Contact Steel Ball Bearings‚ÄĒABEC-7 you sure are going to have to pay for it
[18:00:19] <pfred1> but they will tell you the metric size
[18:00:26] <joe9> pfred1: they are just around 10 bucks
[18:00:36] <joe9> not, angular contact.
[18:00:37] <pfred1> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-ball-bearings/=gfpxtx
[18:00:40] <MattyMatt2> I'm betting a decent abec 3 will be considerably better than what he';s got
[18:00:40] <joe9> though.
[18:00:53] <joe9> MattyMatt2: yes, that is what I am betting on, too.
[18:01:00] <pfred1> Also known as machine tool spindle bearings, these 15¬į contact angle bearings are made to super-tight ABEC-7 dimensional tolerance standards and can handle very high speeds.
[18:01:31] <MattyMatt2> that's for their $3k drill presses :)
[18:01:44] <pfred1> I bet they're really nice bearings
[18:01:56] <joe9> pfred1: any reason you picked "angular bearings"
[18:01:58] <pfred1> $400 !?!
[18:02:19] <pfred1> joe9 I have expensive taste
[18:02:25] <pfred1> I just wanted to see if it was in metric
[18:02:56] <joe9> MattyMatt2: meant to ask you this. I do not see any bearings. both sides seem sealed, why do you pick "open" and not "double shielded"?
[18:03:49] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-ball-bearings/=gfq0q9 i am looking at these.
[18:03:58] <MattyMatt2> I don't. you want a shield of some sort but I'd use rubber shields if you're using water coolant
[18:04:30] <MattyMatt2> ZZ is fine afaics
[18:04:40] <MattyMatt2> or Z
[18:04:51] <joe9> i think the builtins seem to be ZZ, though the part says just a Z.
[18:05:01] <joe9> from what I see.
[18:05:30] <MattyMatt2> that's just a naming quirk I think
[18:06:12] <hatch789> hello everyone
[18:06:30] <pfred1> mcmaster probably buys their bearings off vxb and jut jacks up the prices
[18:06:39] <hatch789> I have a question for a first time EMC2 user. Has anyone got a second to see if you can help me out?
[18:06:52] <joe9> let me check vxb.
[18:06:52] <pfred1> hatch789 just ask if anyone knows they'll say
[18:07:10] <MattyMatt2> joe9 I did. they have cheap, stainless or ceramic
[18:07:26] <joe9> they do not have ABEC-7?
[18:07:44] <joe9> pfred1: did you see metric in mcmaster.com?
[18:07:48] <MattyMatt2> yes but ceramic
[18:07:48] <joe9> i see only sae there.
[18:08:01] <MattyMatt2> you probably don't want ceramic in a drill
[18:08:10] * pfred1 got all his bearings off vxb
[18:08:15] <hatch789> OK I have a 7i49 board that I'm trying to connect my servo up to. I have my resolvers wired, but my servo is what I'm confused by. It shows 4 connections. ENA0-, ENA0+, GND0, AOUT0
[18:08:15] <joe9> 6201Z = 12X32X10 mm
[18:08:47] <hatch789> SO my question is this. Do I want to use the ENA pair? or do I use the AOUT0 & GND pair?
[18:09:19] * pfred1 is a stepper guy
[18:10:00] <pfred1> but if i was to guess I'd think that one pair is for the 1-10V then there is the encoder and a ground
[18:11:01] * pfred1 picks D all of the above
[18:11:37] <pfred1> joe9 I'm doing a mill and drill job now
[18:11:55] <pfred1> making a drive flange for my new left handed circular saw that didn't come with one
[18:12:04] <PCW> ENA0+ and ENA0- are the collector and emitter of a OPTO for drive enable (I think ~30V ~10 mA max)
[18:12:06] <PCW> +-10V analog out is AOUT0. its ground is GND0
[18:13:23] <joe9> MattyMatt2: you are correct. thrust bearings have the highest axial rigidity.
[18:13:39] <joe9> Cylindrical roller thrust bearings (TMP) These are thrust bearings containing cylindrical rollers. They can sustain only axial loads, but they are suitable for heavy loads and have high axial rigidity. The cages are machined brass.
[18:13:49] <joe9> from http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/bearing.htm
[18:14:33] <MattyMatt2> yeah but less radial rigidity than a ball bearing
[18:14:45] <joe9> oh, really.
[18:14:50] <joe9> not good, then.
[18:15:10] <MattyMatt2> and you'd have issues with flanges to keep it seated
[18:15:42] <PCW> 7I49 manual, page 12 shows suggested ENA connections
[18:16:01] <MattyMatt2> a circlip at one end and locknuts at the other, kind of thing
[18:16:38] <MattyMatt2> I'd just put in an $8 abec 3 and move on to the next issue
[18:17:01] <pfred1> I'd just put it back together and worry when it stopped putting holes in stuff
[18:17:03] <joe9> MattyMatt2: good one. I agree, not worth spending much time on this.
[18:17:52] * pfred1 needs a borescope
[18:18:25] <MattyMatt2> for detecting tools in boring bars? :)
[18:18:49] <MattyMatt2> lets not start that again
[18:18:54] <pfred1> I'll just say my spud alignment skills could use some help
[18:20:34] <pfred1> but this thing I'm trying to make now it is going to be down to luck how well it works
[18:20:58] <pfred1> I figure what the hey I'll give it a shot
[18:21:22] <pfred1> what i got on the saw now works and it is really rough
[18:21:44] <hatch789> PCW, I see those suggested connections but I'm not sure if I should use them or not? This is my first time hooking this up
[18:23:31] <hatch789> PCW, maybe I'm not asking properly. Do I need an external power supply (12v?) in addition to the 5v external power supply I have on the 7i43 board already?
[18:25:59] <pfred1> why is 3D printing the media darling lately?
[18:27:31] <pfred1> I swear every tech channel I look at lately is 3D printing this and 3D printing that
[18:28:30] <PCW> hatch789: Normally you need a drive enable with analog drives as they will creep before the feedback loop is closed.
[18:28:31] <PCW> How these enable signals are connected depends on your drives, Thats the first thing to determine
[18:30:10] <PCW> Also remember to set the PWM modes to up/down = "2" or you will not get linear +-10V from the 7I49
[18:30:13] <pfred1> I always thought the hard part with servos came up after they were hooked up while you try to tune the amplifier?
[18:30:42] <PCW> Yes this is still the easy part....
[18:31:10] <pfred1> most I've read on the topic call it a "black art" and leave it there
[18:31:24] <pfred1> sounds kinda spooky to me ...
[18:31:32] <hatch789> OK cool... I'm putting my servo pair on the 19 & 20 pins for X and 23 & 24 pins for Y
[18:31:44] <joe9> MattyMatt2: sorry to bother you about this. from ebay, I can see that the 6204-Z bearing has an OD = 47 mm (1 27/32 inch), inner diameter = 3/4 inch and width = 14 mm (between 35/64 inch and 9/16 inch)
[18:31:47] <pfred1> don't you need an oscilloscope to tune them right?
[18:31:55] <hatch789> Those are Gnd and Aout respectively
[18:32:00] <PCW> but you definately want your drive enables working
[18:32:02] <joe9> MattyMatt2: but, I cannot seem them here. http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-ball-bearings/=gfqbwa
[18:32:10] <PCW> HALScope
[18:32:13] <joe9> MattyMatt2: any thoughts, please?
[18:32:26] <pfred1> halscope can tune servo amps?
[18:32:57] <PCW> I would check the drives and enables before connecting them to EMC/I/O cards at all
[18:33:40] <pfred1> I got some servo motors kicking around someday I'm going to have to try to fire one up
[18:33:41] <PCW> Sure I think that how most people do it (view commanded/actual/ferror)
[18:34:22] <PCW> think of it this way a DC motor drive is only 1/2 of a step motor drive
[18:34:50] <pfred1> yeah making steppers run isn't always the easiest thing to do
[18:35:06] <pfred1> I want to make one more stepper motor drive a high amp high voltage one
[18:35:17] <pfred1> I got the small stuff down
[18:35:43] <pfred1> I have some nema 34 motors I'd like to run though
[18:35:48] <PCW> no a 50 pole 2 phase motor is not the easiest to drive
[18:36:03] <Valen> tuning servos isn't too hard
[18:36:07] <Valen> at least to get it close
[18:36:29] <PCW> especially since they are driven in D mode (which is insane for a regular motor)
[18:38:17] <pfred1> next place i want to invest in CNC though is real leads these 10 TPI acme leads I have are for the birds
[18:38:46] <pfred1> I mean I don't need a resolution of 0.00000625 a step
[18:40:33] <pfred1> for woodworking I may be better off going with a timing belt
[18:41:18] <hatch789> PCW, In pncconf I see the up/down mode for my pwm's but I don't see a way to set it to 2? Do you mean invert?
[18:43:11] <PCW> 2 is up/down mode
[18:43:57] <hatch789> ok
[18:45:01] <joe9> MattyMatt2: these seem to the only choices with mcmastercarr http://www.mcmaster.com/#6204-ball-bearings/=gfqic2 . I am leaning towards this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#6661K105
[18:45:36] <joe9> jdhnc: wondering if you have any thoughts on my choice? ^^
[18:45:54] <JT-Shop> what are you building?
[18:46:20] <joe9> JT-Shop: just changing the spindle bearings of my drill press.
[18:46:59] <JT-Shop> should be fine for a drill press, are yours worn slap out?
[18:47:10] <joe9> "While designated as ABEC-1, these bearings are actually made to higher-precision ABEC-3 dimensional tolerance standards." is what the page says.
[18:47:23] <joe9> JT-Shop: there is a little bit of sideways slop on mine.
[18:47:39] <JT-Shop> in the spline shaft or the bearings?
[18:47:40] <joe9> I am not sure if the new ones will be any better. but, want to check them out.
[18:47:56] <morfic> PCW: thanks, was able to watch input pin switch low/high with proximity switch connected and in turn watch output spit out the connected voltage on our 7i70/7i71
[18:48:07] <joe9> when I press the bearings sideways, I can see a little movement. not sure if that is expected or normal?
[18:48:44] <JT-Shop> mine has some slop on the quill shaft lol
[18:48:52] <PCW> morfic: good that's how its supposed to work...
[18:49:27] <JT-Shop> center punch, spotting bit, pilot hole as needed will get the holes pretty close
[18:49:35] <morfic> PCW: right, at this point a "we saw it working" beats a "we were told it should work" any day :P
[18:52:55] <pfred1> morfic you got it working?
[18:54:10] <morfic> pfred1: depends on the "it", firmware loading in 5i22, and being able to watch and setp pins on the 7i70/7i71, yes, that it works, still tons of over its left
[18:54:36] <pfred1> morfic oh no motors spinning yet?
[18:55:07] <pfred1> it ain't working until some rubber hits the road
[18:55:14] <morfic> pfred1: no, that'll happen when boss says he wants something spinning
[18:55:31] <pfred1> but he is pleased with the present situation?
[18:55:59] <morfic> i believe so, since i am not that much in the present situation especially
[18:57:08] <morfic> hm, aside from being a strange sentence, that grammar reads whack too.
[18:58:53] <morfic> pfred1: wish i could show you the cabinet, i actually like looking at it :P
[18:59:20] <pfred1> all built up?
[19:01:45] <pfred1> someone really ought to update some of the text files in the source tree the project looks abandoned
[19:02:04] <pfred1> pfred1@spot:~/emc2/emc2-dev$ cat TODO
[19:02:16] <JT-Shop> what text files in what source tree?
[19:02:27] <pfred1> JT-Shop TODO and NEWS
[19:02:36] <JT-Shop> what branch?
[19:02:36] <pfred1> the last news entry was from 2009
[19:02:42] <pfred1> I just pulled the git today
[19:02:48] <JT-Shop> what branch?
[19:03:06] <pfred1> cat VERSION 2.6.0~pre
[19:03:42] <JT-Shop> ok, master... wow not much attention has been put on them then
[19:04:06] <JT-Shop> leftover from 2.3... I assume
[19:04:12] <pfred1> real leftover
[19:04:16] <pfred1> just looks shabby
[19:04:19] <JT-Shop> LOL
[19:04:59] <JT-Shop> does it show which TODO and NEWS it is? I think there are several scattered around
[19:05:00] <pfred1> not exactly what I'd use as an example of how he project is active
[19:06:10] <pfred1> least ./docs/TODO doesn't have any dates in it :)
[19:06:25] <pfred1> pfred1@spot:~/emc2/emc2-dev$ find ./ -name "*" | grep -i todo
[19:07:15] <JT-Shop> the docs ones are the only ones that I really pay any attention to
[19:07:58] <pfred1> yeah it is the TLD TODO that is the stale file
[19:08:29] <pfred1> like it is trapped in a time warp
[19:11:23] <jthornton> lol
[19:12:09] <pfred1> I know most people ignore those things but what about the fraction of a percent that actually reads them?
[19:17:30] <jthornton> I've done what I can and found more outdated material... when it gets merged to master you will see it
[19:18:15] <pfred1> jthornton I mean if I didn't know any better I'd have guessed development stopped somewhere around 2009
[19:18:42] <pfred1> and some folks looking at it might not know any better
[19:19:15] <jthornton> that's about when I stopped brewing beer
[19:19:29] <pfred1> hops are expensive aren't they?
[19:19:29] <jthornton> wonder if there is any connection?
[19:19:44] <pfred1> cheaper to just go out and buy the stuff
[19:19:45] <jthornton> dunno still using hops from back then
[19:20:04] <jthornton> no, it's cheaper to make it when you use all grain
[19:20:05] * pfred1 lives down the road from Dogfish brewery so ...
[19:20:21] <jthornton> well you might get a frequent flier discount then
[19:20:25] <pfred1> they make some brutal beer
[19:21:08] <jthornton> weren't they on dirty jobs once?
[19:21:26] <pfred1> might have been they do a lot of media stuff sam had his own TV show for a bit
[19:21:36] <pfred1> brewmasters?
[19:21:48] <pfred1> it only ran a couple of episodes though
[19:21:49] <jthornton> yea, saw that too
[19:22:04] <pfred1> but yeah they're right up the street from me
[19:22:26] <pfred1> they just got approval for their expansion plans
[19:22:51] <pfred1> big news around these parts they're like the biggest industry around here that doesn't have feathers
[19:23:19] <jthornton> rest are chicken farmers?
[19:23:36] <pfred1> yeah this is the biggest chicken producing county in the world
[19:24:08] <jthornton> damm, I thought we were with chicken barns on every street corner
[19:24:50] <pfred1> though dogfish is indirectly involved in the chicken racket i guess they spread spent wort on fields that grows chicken feed
[19:25:07] <jthornton> you mean spent grain?
[19:25:18] <pfred1> I thought that mess was called wort?
[19:25:23] <jthornton> wort is unfermented beer
[19:25:37] <pfred1> yeah it is the gunk from before it is beer
[19:25:56] <jthornton> the spend grains I think you mean
[19:26:08] <jthornton> from the mash tun
[19:26:11] <pfred1> I haven't been on the tour in a while now
[19:26:27] <pfred1> it isn't as fun as it used to be
[19:26:59] <jthornton> don't get to sample the beer any more?
[19:27:10] <gurh_an> Hi everyone
[19:27:25] <pfred1> you do but it is more regimented than it used to be
[19:27:47] <pfred1> I mean they used to make sure you were crocked before you left
[19:27:55] <jthornton> someone fell into the mash tun when drunk?
[19:28:16] <pfred1> it has just gotten a lot more organized now they give you these little chips for drinks
[19:28:39] <jthornton> argg some bean counter has taken over the samples
[19:28:55] <jthornton> gurh_an: ask your question...
[19:31:28] <gurh_an> I have a problem with "comp" I can't include any header file in my own comp file
[19:31:48] <gurh_an> ok
[19:32:00] <gurh_an> thank you in advance
[19:32:15] <jthornton> comp does have some limitations as I understand it
[19:32:29] <jthornton> you may need to write it as a C file
[19:32:37] <gurh_an> that's right
[19:32:51] <gurh_an> no not
[19:34:48] <gurh_an> for example
[19:35:39] <gurh_an> let's say pluto_servo.comp
[19:36:44] <gurh_an> I command "sudo comp --install pluto_servo.comp"
[19:37:00] <gurh_an> everything is ok
[19:37:09] <gurh_an> but
[19:37:13] <pfred1> ah a permissions problem?
[19:39:57] <gurh_an> when I add "#include <sys/socket.h>"; can't find the header file
[19:40:28] <gurh_an> how can I solve the problem
[19:42:05] <pfred1> do you have the file?
[19:42:18] <pfred1> ls /usr/include/sys/socket.h
[19:42:18] <gurh_an> offcourse
[19:42:29] <gurh_an> that' ok
[19:43:06] <gurh_an> I checked the file several times
[19:43:49] <gurh_an> I have the file in the place
[19:45:19] <hatch789> guys if I have my resolvers hooked in properly and EMC initialized; should I be able to see my X & Y axis positions changing by moving my hand wheels?
[19:45:35] <gurh_an> I am crazy for the problem
[19:46:23] <pfred1> gurh_an something must be altering your include path is all I can think
[19:46:43] <pfred1> if the file is there and that is the syntax you used it should work
[19:47:10] <pfred1> I only asked if the file was really there because that is all that would make it not work
[19:48:11] <gurh_an> I do such thing out of the emc2 directory
[19:48:17] <pfred1> maybe you don't have read permission to access it?
[19:48:37] <pfred1> the bent brackets mean default /usr/include
[19:48:47] <cstop> hatch789 resolvers are analog
[19:48:49] <gurh_an> I have it
[19:49:31] <pfred1> #include <sys/socket.h> = #include "/usr/include/sys/socket.h"
[19:49:47] <ries> KimK: Happen to be here? I would like to announce that we are in the race of participating into Gsoc on the title of LibreCAD.
[19:49:57] <gurh_an> that's right
[19:50:52] <pfred1> but for laughs change it see what happens
[19:51:18] <gurh_an> I will try once more
[19:53:25] <pfred1> ries bit early for summer isn't it?
[19:53:46] <ries> pfred1: Not really..
[19:54:00] <pfred1> still winter here
[19:54:12] <ries> pfred1: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2012/02/mentoring-organization-applications-now.html
[19:55:12] <pfred1> this was the mildest winter I can ever recall though
[19:57:12] <pfred1> ries I already had a daffodil bloom here
[19:57:14] <ries> pfred1: it's rain season here, I don't have winters :D
[19:57:57] <pfred1> ries this was 2 years ago http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3994/shoveled.jpg
[19:58:09] <pfred1> we can get winter here sometimes
[19:59:30] <ries> image hack doesn't work here, I always get redirected to http://imageshack.us/img/blocked_login.jpg
[19:59:36] <pfred1> ries a week after I took that picture it snowed about the same amount on top of that
[19:59:42] <jepler> gurh_an: you can't #include <sys/socket.h> in a realtime component because it's a linux userspace header. only a restricted set of headers can be included in realtime components, and only a smaller subset of the APIs defined in those headers can be used in realtime code.
[20:00:26] <pfred1> jepler so, when are you going to fix all of that? :)
[20:00:58] <pfred1> RTAI does have a way of taking the fun out of a lot of stuff
[20:01:25] <jepler> pfred1: it would be dandy if some young, smart and strong person would make rtai networking play with linuxcnc, but I'm not your man
[20:01:28] <jepler> bbl
[20:02:11] <pfred1> that is one thing I never tried see if my network was running when I was running the RT module
[20:02:18] <gurh_an> I am trying
[20:02:23] <pfred1> I know it doesn't like GL
[20:02:31] <gurh_an> thank you
[20:02:52] <pfred1> but I could probably fix that if I was really interested
[20:03:27] <gurh_an> I must run UDP under RT
[20:03:36] <pfred1> I figure I'll save that for the next system
[20:04:29] <gurh_an> Do you know 3S' Codesys
[20:05:27] <gurh_an> I have run UDP on the Codesys' RTE
[20:06:39] <pcw_home> hatch789: yes if you have your resolvers hooked up the right way in both hal and in hardware
[20:07:16] <gurh_an> Yes I must Run UDP on the RT because I love Linuxcnc
[20:08:07] <pfred1> gurh_an sometimes love ain't enough
[20:08:59] <pfred1> tool pr0n: http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5871/jsclamps.jpg
[20:09:12] <morfic> <pfred1> all built up? <-- cabinet is fully wired, minus the mesa stuff that is now on desk next to me
[20:10:36] <pfred1> morfic it's alive! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[20:11:34] <morfic> nice, we rip something before long
[20:12:05] <pfred1> I made it al lthe way to 1.7 IPS when I jacked up my microstep mode
[20:12:07] <morfic> i believe the spindle motor can easily insure the machine
[20:12:28] <pfred1> which ain't too shabby for running 24VDC
[20:12:49] <gurh_an> pfred1, maybe...
[20:13:42] <pfred1> but realistically I won't be able to run my machine at that speed reliably I don't think
[20:43:14] <hatch789> hmmm I can't seem to read my resolvers and I'm pretty sure everything is hooked up properly. The exciter winding supplies the power to let sin & cos read position right?
[20:46:21] <hatch789> pcw_home, do I need to have emc in any special screen for it to read my resolver positions? or can I just be in the manual control screen?
[20:47:25] <pfred1> are you in axis?
[20:47:55] <skunkworks__> http://youtu.be/U61ub6mtpH4
[20:48:49] <pcw_home> axis is about 10 miles ahead, I would first look at the hal signals to see if the 7I49 thinks theres a resolver there
[20:50:57] <hatch789> pcw_home, Yes I'm in Axis. What you say sounds good but how do I look at the hal signals?
[20:51:19] <pcw_home> hal show config
[20:53:45] <pcw_home> look first at blahblahblah.resolver.00.error
[20:54:38] <hatch789> do I exit emc before executing the hal command?
[20:55:16] <pcw_home> n,o its a axis menu item
[20:56:12] <skunkworks__> within axis - under the 'machine' menu
[20:56:53] <pfred1> the learning clif begins
[20:57:12] <pcw_home> thanks skunkworks_
[20:57:37] <skunkworks__> :)
[20:57:43] <hatch789> found it
[20:57:55] <hatch789> so I'm looking for the resolver.00.error ?
[20:58:14] <pcw_home> blahblahblah.resolver.00.error
[20:58:17] <hatch789> I see components pins parameters signals
[20:58:28] <pcw_home> its a pin
[21:00:41] <hatch789> hmm I assume Pins, then Axis?. Under there I see 0, 2, 1
[21:00:51] <hatch789> or maybe Motion?
[21:01:54] <pcw_home> nope. should be something like hm2_7I43.0.resolver.00.error
[21:05:59] <hatch789> darn ...lol is there a way to search in here? I found a bunch of hm2_7i43.0 stuff but it's pwmgen and led and other things like that
[21:07:17] <skunkworks__> are you setting the right config line? I assume you have to tell it how many resolvers you are needing?
[21:07:19] <hatch789> under parameters I found hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.scale
[21:07:19] <hatch789> 12 float RW 1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.velocity-scale
[21:07:19] <hatch789> 12 float RW 20000 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.scale
[21:07:19] <hatch789> 12 float RW 1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.velocity-scale
[21:07:19] <hatch789> 12 float RW 20000 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.scale
[21:07:20] <hatch789> 12 float RW 1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.velocity-scale
[21:07:22] <hatch789> 12 float RW -1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.excitation-khz
[21:07:26] <hatch789> 12 u32 RW 0x00989680
[21:07:42] <skunkworks__> oh - You are close...
[21:07:54] <hatch789> yeah but nothing under the PIN section about resolver that I can see
[21:07:57] <skunkworks__> there should be Pins also..
[21:08:04] <pfred1> http://www.stgraber.org/category/pastebinit/
[21:08:05] <hatch789> if there was a way to search I could just look for the word resolver
[21:08:38] <elmo40> anonimas1: any luck with the copper?
[21:09:09] <pcw_home> you can do that with "halcmd show pin | grep resolver"
[21:09:16] <hatch789> ok I think I found it
[21:09:19] <hatch789> 12 float OUT 1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.angle
[21:09:19] <hatch789> 12 s32 OUT -1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.count
[21:09:19] <hatch789> 12 bit OUT FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.error
[21:09:19] <hatch789> 12 bit I/O FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.index-enable <=> x-index-enable
[21:09:19] <hatch789> 12 float OUT -4.656613e-06 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.position ==> x-pos-fb
[21:09:19] <hatch789> 12 s32 OUT -1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.rawcounts ==> x-pos-rawcounts
[21:09:21] <hatch789> 12 bit IN FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.reset
[21:09:25] <hatch789> 12 float OUT -3979.92 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.00.velocity ==> x-vel-fb
[21:09:27] <hatch789> 12 float OUT 1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.angle
[21:09:29] <hatch789> 12 s32 OUT -1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.count
[21:09:31] <hatch789> 12 bit OUT FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.error
[21:09:33] <hatch789> 12 bit I/O FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.index-enable <=> y-index-enable
[21:09:35] <hatch789> 12 float OUT -4.656613e-06 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.position ==> y-pos-fb
[21:09:37] <hatch789> 12 s32 OUT -1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.rawcounts ==> y-pos-rawcounts
[21:09:39] <hatch789> 12 bit IN FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.reset
[21:09:41] <hatch789> 12 float OUT -3753.14 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.01.velocity ==> y-vel-fb
[21:09:43] <hatch789> 12 float OUT 1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.angle
[21:09:45] <hatch789> 12 s32 OUT -1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.count
[21:09:47] <hatch789> 12 bit OUT FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.error
[21:09:49] <hatch789> 12 bit I/O FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.index-enable <=> z-index-enable
[21:09:51] <hatch789> 12 float OUT -4.656613e-06 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.position ==> z-pos-fb
[21:09:55] <hatch789> 12 s32 OUT -1 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.rawcounts ==> z-pos-rawcounts
[21:09:57] <hatch789> 12 bit IN FALSE hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.reset
[21:09:59] <hatch789> 12 float OUT -3919.892 hm2_7i43.0.resolver.02.velocity ==> z-vel-fb
[21:11:03] <pcw_home> ok looks like there something wrong (the big velocity numbers)
[21:11:24] <hatch789> ok that sounds sort of good :)
[21:11:52] <pcw_home> Did I make the bitfile?
[21:14:24] <hatch789> I have been working with Dave (CNC_Basher) on this for months
[21:14:26] <hatch789> I think you did
[21:14:38] <hatch789> he's been working with you and with someone named chris
[21:15:04] <hatch789> We had to modify my Tree.hal file (Tree Journeyman Mill) a bit because some things are not yet in the build
[21:15:18] <hatch789> but he's working on adding those to the builds for v6 now
[21:15:27] <hatch789> since I think I'm the first to test Resolvers for you guys
[21:15:54] <pcw_home> I know i have some bad resolver bitfiles due to a bug in Webpack
[21:15:55] <pcw_home> (no we have people using them)
[21:15:55] <hatch789> unfortunately I'm so new at this I suck on the vocabulary and interface ...at the moment
[21:16:25] <hatch789> ok but not with EMC
[21:16:38] <hatch789> at least that's what you told me a before Christmas
[21:16:40] <pcw_home> Yes with EMC
[21:16:44] <hatch789> hmm ok
[21:18:12] <pcw_home> I think this is the first one using a 7I43 but that should not make any difference
[21:18:44] <hatch789> ok
[21:19:13] <pcw_home> Do you have a oscilloscope?
[21:19:43] <hatch789> not a working on at the moment :(
[21:19:48] <pcw_home> with that you should be able to verify that the exitation and sin/cos are OK
[21:20:29] <pcw_home> even a AC voltmeter could help verify things
[21:20:33] <hatch789> this machine was working before I changed it over
[21:20:42] <hatch789> I have a volt meter (2 of them)
[21:21:15] <hatch789> OK I'm scared to ask this but I had all 3 pairs of wires opposite polarity about 2 hours ago
[21:21:33] <hatch789> each set was in it's proper pair but the + / - were reversed in each pair
[21:21:39] <pcw_home> resolver wires?
[21:21:42] <hatch789> I only set that right about 1 hour ago
[21:21:43] <hatch789> yup :(
[21:21:49] <hatch789> will that kill a resolver?
[21:22:00] <pcw_home> nope all AC
[21:22:08] <hatch789> even the exitation?
[21:22:15] <pcw_home> just a fancy variable transformer
[21:22:43] <hatch789> ok well then if I didn't kill it then I know everything is good now
[21:23:04] <hatch789> because the units were all working before I started changing wires from the old CNC computer over to EMC today
[21:23:28] <hatch789> and I know my wires are right now because I pulled the cover off of my resolver to check the color codes
[21:23:43] <hatch789> and that's how I discovered my reversed polarities
[21:24:10] <hatch789> so the resolvers should be wired into the 7i49 board now 100% correct
[21:24:27] <pcw_home> the polarity is not important (all it will change in EMC is direction or index location)
[21:24:44] <hatch789> awesome. I was scared I killed my resolvers
[21:24:56] <hatch789> so do you want me to get my AC volt meter?
[21:25:01] <pcw_home> they are just transformers
[21:25:28] <hatch789> I'm assuming I would hook the meter up and turn the hand-wheels at a steady rate to see if I get a reading on Sin or Cos?
[21:26:35] <pcw_home> yes the amplitudes will vary as to the sin(one pair) or cos (the other pair) of shaft rotation
[21:27:53] <pcw_home> since your meter is not phase sensitive the AC signal amplitude will look like a rectified sine wave
[21:29:04] <danimal_laptop> so no luck with the plasma
[21:29:31] <pcw_home> does the HV transformer get power?
[21:29:37] <danimal_laptop> yea
[21:29:40] <danimal_laptop> seems to
[21:30:39] <pcw_home> (clip voltmeter to transformer _primary_ with plasma unplugged)
[21:30:41] <pcw_home> stand back, torch on
[21:31:29] <pcw_home> check for 110 or 220 on primary
[21:32:00] <danimal_laptop> i see voltage from all leads from both transformers
[21:32:38] <hatch789> pcw_home, quick question regarding input voltage. I have my 7i43 board driven with an external computer power supply at 5v
[21:33:02] <hatch789> I have the 7i49 and 7i42TA boards connected to the 7i43 board via the 50 pin cables
[21:33:08] <pcw_home> well unless you measure across the primary of the HV transformer I'm not sure its powered
[21:33:17] <hatch789> but I do not have separate power going to the 7i49 or 7i42 boards.
[21:33:40] <hatch789> so is it possible that my resolvers are not getting any power?
[21:34:17] <pcw_home> I would power the 7I43 from the same PC as you dont want a ground loop here (not that that has anything to do with your problem)
[21:34:39] <danimal_laptop> i tried disconnecting the hf circuit and scratch starting it but it wont burn
[21:35:01] <danimal_laptop> get lots of sparks though, definitely juice going through it
[21:35:07] <pcw_home> do the (3?) yellow LEDs light on the 7I49?
[21:35:37] <pfred1> danimal_laptop you have a plasma torch?
[21:35:43] <pcw_home> danimal_laptop: thats the plasma power, not the HF
[21:35:56] <danimal_laptop> pfred1: a non working one
[21:36:22] <pcw_home> for the HF to work the first thing is that the HV transformer must get power
[21:36:46] <danimal_laptop> pcw_home: yea i think i checked it but i will double check
[21:37:27] <pcw_home> thats why I suggested clipping you voltmeter across the HV transformer primary (in case its a control problem of some sort)
[21:37:37] <hatch789> pcw_home, I only see 2 yellow LED's on the 7i49 board
[21:37:44] <pcw_home> stay away from the HV side (5-15 KV)
[21:38:04] <pfred1> yeah
[21:39:52] <pcw_home> hatch789: That may be right dont remember off hand
[21:40:36] <hatch789> so powering the 7i43 from a separate computer power supply. Separate from the computer that EMC is running on... is bad?
[21:40:57] <hatch789> the only thing attaching my computer to the 7i43 is printer cable
[21:41:11] <pcw_home> a spark gap type HF start is pretty simple, basically just a specialized Tesla coil
[21:42:11] <pcw_home> hatch789: its not ideal. I would run everything from the same PC
[21:42:57] <hatch789> hmm ok I'll have to change that around then and bring 2 external wires out of my case for the 7i43 board then.
[21:43:19] <hatch789> that's not a problem is the 5v the correct voltage that I need?
[21:44:34] <danimal_laptop> pcw_home: the larger coil has probably 300vdc coming out of it. the smaller one has one lead in and one lead out.
[21:44:53] <danimal_laptop> it shows voltage depending on what you check it to
[21:45:05] <pfred1> sounds like a choke
[21:46:00] <pcw_home> the HV transformer is the one with the split bobbin
[21:46:24] <danimal_laptop> there's voltage then
[21:47:23] <pcw_home> you measured across the 2 primary side wires?
[21:47:49] <pcw_home> measuring to ground is not useful
[21:49:52] <pcw_home> hatch789 yes 5V is what you need (beware the 12V on disk connectors)
[21:51:30] <danimal_laptop> well i dont know if im checking it right... primary is the input side?
[21:51:40] <hatch789> pcw_home, I'm using a digital volt meter and it's not really showing anything with my switch turned to AC. No matter how fast or slow I turn the hand-wheel
[21:51:53] <hatch789> pcw_home, do I need to get my analog volt meter?
[21:53:10] <danimal_laptop> there's 2 windings, 208 and 230, it's not very clear what's what
[21:53:50] <danimal_laptop> there's voltage across one of them
[21:55:19] <pcw_home> can you post the picture link again?
[21:55:35] <danimal_laptop> http://www.flickr.com/photos/66828621@N02/sets/72157629468486855/
[21:55:42] <pcw_home> hatch789 is EMC running?
[21:56:08] <hatch789> hmmm out of curiosity I put my meter across my Z resolver (Pins 6 & 7) which should be the exciter winding
[21:56:22] <hatch789> I would expect to see voltage across those 2 pins but I see nothing
[21:56:38] <hatch789> the power button on emc is pressed
[21:58:03] <pcw_home> if you measure them to ground the should both be about 4V DC from ground
[21:59:41] <hatch789> nothing
[21:59:45] <hatch789> I think that's the problem
[21:59:54] <pcw_home> Sounds dead
[22:00:00] <hatch789> the exciter winding isn't being energized so sin& cos have nothing to pick up
[22:00:25] <hatch789> I don't need to power the 7i49 board separately do I?
[22:00:44] <hatch789> it's getting it's power from the 50 pin cable coming from 7i43 ...right?
[22:01:02] <pcw_home> manual page 2
[22:01:07] <hatch789> do I need to change a jumper ?
[22:01:09] <hatch789> checking manual
[22:01:25] <pfred1> pcw_home you sure know your mesa hardware
[22:02:18] <danimal_laptop> he should, he made it!
[22:02:33] <pcw_home> If you do not measure about 4VDC on the resolver drive pins to _ground_ something is really bad
[22:03:57] <hatch789> hmm... how many amps do I need my external 5v power supply to be on the 7i43?
[22:04:22] <pcw_home> as these are driven by two OP-AMP outputs in bridge mode (about 1/2 way up on a 8V power supply)
[22:04:24] <pcw_home> 1A maybe for everything
[22:04:31] <ssi> hatch789: what machine are you working on?
[22:04:44] <hatch789> I have things hooked up to the "standby" power right now since that's 2.5A max
[22:04:50] <pcw_home> but an external supply is asking for trouble run it from the PC
[22:04:54] <hatch789> and it doesn't have to light up and run the fan to deliver that
[22:05:22] <hatch789> ssi, I'm working on configuring my Tree Journeyman 200R with emc2
[22:05:43] <hatch789> resolvers and X&Y axis built on old 1980's technology. trying to update the CNC side of things
[22:05:49] <ssi> neat
[22:06:17] <ssi> I'm about to embark on a similar adventure :P
[22:06:18] <pcw_home> what does the 5V measure at the 7I49? (P1)
[22:07:31] <hatch789> pcw_home, hmmm P1 on the P4 bar?
[22:07:57] <pcw_home> No, connector P1
[22:09:21] <hatch789> the unused external power hookup on P1?
[22:09:50] <pcw_home> Yes
[22:11:04] <hatch789> 2.01 v right now
[22:11:17] <hatch789> with emc2 running and everything
[22:12:47] <pcw_home> that is independent of EMC
[22:12:49] <pcw_home> also the fact that you dont have 3 LEDS indicates trouble (see the picture on page 3)
[22:14:09] <hatch789> I see the pic on pg 3 but don't see where the 3rd LED is?
[22:15:14] <hatch789> the 2 yellow LED's on my 7i49 that are lit up are right next to the 2 things that look like I-Beams on your drawing
[22:15:50] <pcw_home> so the 8V one is not on
[22:15:52] <pcw_home> Can you Ohm out the resolver signals to make sure none have conductivity to ground?
[22:16:29] <pcw_home> (after powering down and disconnecting the resolver connectors)
[22:16:52] <hatch789> yup so test each pair and make sure there's no leaking?
[22:17:02] <pcw_home> Yes
[22:17:10] <hatch789> ok that will take a little time
[22:18:15] <ssi> danimal_laptop: you here?
[22:18:22] <danimal_laptop> yea
[22:18:37] <ssi> I may have asked you this already, but what are you doing to power your spindle in the HNC?
[22:18:47] <danimal_laptop> vfd
[22:18:57] <ssi> did you keep the original high/low speed clutch dealy?
[22:19:23] <danimal_laptop> yes
[22:19:40] <ssi> 5hp VFD? how much was that?
[22:19:53] <danimal_laptop> its a 2?hp motor
[22:20:05] <ssi> oh I thought it was 5hp for some reason
[22:20:10] <ssi> maybe that was the CHNC
[22:20:19] <danimal_laptop> im using a 3hp vfd running on single phase
[22:20:24] <danimal_laptop> chnc has a servo
[22:20:44] <danimal_laptop> i woud go with a 5hp vfd
[22:21:01] <danimal_laptop> so it accelerates and decellerates faster
[22:21:25] <ssi> I have been looking for pricing on 5hp vfds and having a hard time finding good info
[22:21:27] <danimal_laptop> with braking resistors
[22:21:34] <ssi> I have a 1hp teco that I put on my g0602 and it was like $130
[22:21:50] <danimal_laptop> i got my last one for like $75
[22:22:04] <danimal_laptop> look on ebay
[22:22:32] <danimal_laptop> i have 3 mitusbishi vfd's, i like them
[22:22:32] <pcw_home> bbl
[22:22:37] <danimal_laptop> and they're cheap
[22:22:54] <danimal_laptop> goodnight pcw_home
[22:23:36] <ssi> what's the longest piece of stock you could turn to a given diameter on that machine?
[22:23:45] <ssi> it doesn't really seem like it's set up conducive to turning long parts
[22:24:03] <danimal_laptop> depends on the tool holder
[22:24:14] <danimal_laptop> 3 inches maybe
[22:24:51] <danimal_laptop> the part isnt going past the turret
[22:25:54] <ssi> right
[22:26:40] <danimal_laptop> the longer the tool holder, the longer the part you can turn, but at the cost of rigidity
[22:28:06] <ssi> yeah
[22:33:19] <hatch789> pcw_home, ok some interesting results
[22:33:25] <hatch789> did a bit of extra testing to be sure
[22:33:36] <pfred1> hatch789 23:08 < pcw_home> bbl
[22:34:41] <pfred1> hatch789 there is a forum too at http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum
[22:35:16] <pfred1> lots of folks that frequent that never come here
[22:35:42] <pcw_home> back but only for a bit
[22:36:06] <pcw_home> what is your 5V at the 7I43?
[22:39:31] <pcw_home> if you only have 2V at the 7I49 I worry that its drawing to much power somehow
[22:39:33] <pcw_home> also how long are the flat cables from the 7I43 to the 7I49 (if really long you might expect excessive drop)
[22:39:35] <pcw_home> OK really bbl Ill look at the logs
[22:42:04] <hatch789> guys when you start EMC up what order do you turn things on? Do you power the Mesa boards up first then fire up EMC or the other way around?
[22:42:19] <hatch789> oh hey
[22:42:34] <hatch789> lol now he's gone probably.
[22:42:44] <hatch789> it's 5v now well it was
[22:43:11] <pfred1> this is why sometimes the forum is a better well forum
[22:43:54] <hatch789> I think I wasn't shutting the power off to my mesa boards long enough.
[22:43:54] <pfred1> I'm pretty sure PCW does the forum as well as here
[22:44:08] <hatch789> do they need like 60 seconds or more to totally drain caps or something?
[22:44:09] <ssi> if I could spend $10k on a decent CNC mill or VMC, what should I look at?
[22:45:06] <pfred1> Searched for: PCW Displaying 1 - 15 out of 143 results.
[22:46:35] <pfred1> if I was to spend 10K right now it'd better come with white sand and umbrellas in the drinks
[22:46:55] <jdhnc> are you going to play with it or make money with it?
[22:47:18] * pfred1 dons his pimp suit ...
[22:47:55] <jdhnc> I've got a WONDERFUL cnc router I'd be willing to part with for only $8k
[22:48:32] <pfred1> what kind of linear guides does it have?
[22:48:53] <jdhnc> plastic!
[22:49:21] <cstop> How are routers related to VMC's? Seem like far distant capabilities
[22:49:45] <pfred1> for 8K it'd better have THKs
[22:50:20] <cstop> I looked at a Sharnoa With Tiger IV for less than 3K
[22:50:44] <pfred1> cstop get the knack!
[22:51:03] <cstop> low hours, but the Sharnoa control might be a liability for many
[22:51:12] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdnqEyToqg
[22:55:27] <pfred1> man that was all so long ago it all looked familiar but I can't quite place any of it
[22:57:15] <pfred1> wow that song came out 33 years ago
[22:57:41] <pfred1> OK now I'm oficially depressed
[23:25:58] <merf> Anyone configure a 7i64 with 2.5 yet?
[23:40:29] <iwoj> Is there anyone in here right now?
[23:42:25] <iwoj> I have a CNC that I can control from the stepconf wizard, but it doesn't respond in AXIS...
[23:42:36] <iwoj> Any ideas what the problem could be?
[23:46:18] <|n0b0dy|> btns f1/f2?
[23:46:28] <|n0b0dy|> e stop and something
[23:47:01] <|n0b0dy|> you can use arrow keys and pgup/pgdown
[23:56:18] <iwoj> it doesn't respond to arrow keys (jogging) in AXIS
[23:56:37] <iwoj> but when i test jogging in stepconf, the CNC machine responds...
[23:57:06] <|n0b0dy|> see the two icons in the top left under file?
[23:57:33] <|n0b0dy|> f1 toggles the first on/off... and then f2 toggles the second on/off
[23:57:42] <|n0b0dy|> both of them have to be on to jog
[23:58:24] <iwoj> yeah. i've done that.
[23:58:41] <iwoj> i think i'm dealing with a problem at the hardware level. or a timing issue...
[23:59:03] <|n0b0dy|> you can try shift+arrows
[23:59:07] <|n0b0dy|> that will move at fastest speed
[23:59:25] <|n0b0dy|> ... and that completes my troubleshooting, sry