#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-22

[00:28:24] <The_Ball> sH`, it's good fun, what machinery are you using?
[02:01:35] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:39:34] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:57:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Howdy =)
[02:58:07] <Jymmm> cradek: I think you might enjoy this clock... http://images.piccsy.com/cache/images/wall-clock-216473-500-560.jpg
[03:00:25] <archivist> he could have easily added minutes to it as well
[03:02:08] <Tectu> awallin_, took a look to slic3r, looks much friendlier and better than skeinforce to mee
[03:03:07] <pjm> i milled up a case for my clock on my emc mill a couple of weeks back; http://pjm.dyndns.org/twtr/nixie4.jpg
[03:04:33] <Jymmm> pjm: looks nice
[03:05:05] <pjm> tnx! the case was the hardest part to get right, but i wanted something to show off the internals
[03:05:46] <Jymmm> pjm: I understand. It's MUCH easier to do it on a laser =)
[03:06:21] <pjm> LOL my wife wont let me have a laser, i have asked
[03:06:43] <pjm> she said not whilst the children are little, but i want one later certainly
[03:07:04] <Jymmm> pjm: Just save every penny you find =)
[03:08:44] <pjm> yeah i think building a laser cutter would be an interesting learning curve certainly, I see on ebay a good selection CO2 tubes + PSU's
[03:10:42] <Loetmichel> *grrr* yesterday i milled something for work. Today i made the treads... until the M2.5m tap broke. now i had to repair the workpiece and have to buy a new Tap... was the last one... :-( http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12885 (top left corner, hammered the tap out and put a M4 screw in :-)
[03:12:06] <archivist> Loetmichel, make a spark eroder/EDM then you can rescue the hole and finish tapping the right size
[03:13:01] <archivist> I know a local company with one and they rescued my last job
[03:16:37] <Loetmichel> archivist: it IS repaired
[03:16:44] <Loetmichel> bur i have no tap
[03:22:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: "NO TAPS FOR YOU! NEXT!!!!!!"
[03:25:59] <Loetmichel> archivist: i simply hammered the rest of the tap thru the hole, drilled the hole up to 3,2mm, and then threaded it M4, screw in, "forged" it in place and grinded it flat
[03:26:57] <Loetmichel> now i am waiting 'til tomorrow, there is a tools shop on my way to work, so i can buy a new tap (or 2) on my way in tomorrow
[03:30:58] <archivist> Loetmichel, when riveting up holes I dont tap the hole http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=clock+dial+norfolk
[03:56:24] <pingufan> hello, I want to add a switch/sensor to my little CNC mill for automated sensing of tool length.
[03:56:39] <pingufan> Can somebody, please, give me some details?
[03:59:04] <pingufan> I use an older version of EMC2, btw. The newer version had massive problems with my PC hardware.
[04:00:17] <pingufan> Somebody here who has a little bit of time?
[04:02:37] <pingufan> cradek: Please, can you give me some details, please?
[04:03:56] <archivist> too early for him
[04:04:07] <pingufan> Ah! USA?
[04:04:39] <archivist> there was something on the wiki but cant find it
[04:06:42] <pingufan> I want to mount a micro switch at a fixed point on the mill's desk. After a tool change, the machine shoutld automatically lift z to highest possible point, then move to the right Y, then to right X position, then sense the tool tip.
[04:07:18] <pingufan> I usually use fixations on the sides (left and right of workpiece), therefore this special move.
[04:07:44] <pingufan> Should this be possible?
[04:08:02] <archivist> some use a sprung plate and use the electrical connection when the tool touches
[04:08:52] <pingufan> Ah! so the plate is on some voltage and grounded by the tool through the machine?
[04:09:07] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNCKnowledgeBase see touch probes, there is a bad link there ( alex_joni ?)
[04:09:13] <pingufan> Is surely the most precise way.
[04:10:03] <archivist> yup, but needs to be sprung so you dont damage tools
[04:10:07] <pingufan> I use Ubuntu only on my mill, so I have no experience with it. How can I see which version it is?
[04:11:04] <archivist> uname -a is one method
[04:11:11] <pingufan> I think it is version 8.04.
[04:11:40] <archivist> in gui system...about
[04:11:41] <pingufan> it shows 2.6.24-16-rtai
[04:14:12] <pingufan> Is this version the 8.04?
[04:14:49] <archivist> in gui system...about
[04:15:57] <pingufan> So much text, and in its middle it stands: 8.04.
[04:17:09] <pingufan> Damn. I minimised the running AXIS. How do I get it back now?
[04:17:22] <archivist> there is discussion of tool length probing on the forum too
[04:18:03] <archivist> click on the tab on the bottom of the screen
[04:18:08] <Loetmichel> archivist: oh sorry, bad english... i thought a tap a bit to vut threads
[04:18:11] <Loetmichel> cut
[04:18:12] <pingufan> Ah, got it.
[04:18:24] <pingufan> What is your language?
[04:18:29] <Loetmichel> i meant a threading bit
[04:18:51] <archivist> Loetmichel, yes tap
[04:19:28] <Loetmichel> oh, so you use a plain round "rivet" to fill the hole?
[04:19:56] <Loetmichel> i would think that has not enough grip if grinded flat on both sides
[04:20:07] <Loetmichel> so i tap the holes and put screws in
[04:20:23] <archivist> yes, except I notice I used funny shape to key into the side of a hole on that clock dial
[04:21:33] <pingufan> You possibly can tell me the principle of sensing the tool tip.
[04:21:36] <archivist> better for hiding the join, should be invisible
[04:22:05] <Loetmichel> if you "rivet" the screw in plache it will be nearly invisible , either
[04:22:09] <Loetmichel> pace
[04:22:13] <Loetmichel> grrr
[04:22:17] <Loetmichel> place
[04:22:55] <Loetmichel> pingufan: i used a simple micoswotch in "vandal proof" as a sensor for the tool
[04:22:57] <pingufan> I want to touch off the workpiece with the first tool (to set the Z origin). When I change the tool, the Z-axis shall be corrected.
[04:23:02] <Loetmichel> microswitch
[04:23:20] <pingufan> Loetmichel: German speaker?
[04:23:34] <archivist> pingufan, http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=21&id=2653
[04:24:17] <Loetmichel> pingufan: yes
[04:24:25] <pingufan> Me, too. :)
[04:25:34] <pingufan> Can you tell me how you work?
[04:26:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/taster4d1hzwvu8s5.jpg
[04:26:53] <Loetmichel> simple vandal prooof key in a metal casing
[04:29:11] <DJ9DJ> Loetmichel, do you have a second one for me? ;)
[04:29:53] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: not mine, just google
[04:30:09] <DJ9DJ> oh, because it looks very nice :)
[04:30:16] <DJ9DJ> just as your workpieces :D
[04:30:47] <Loetmichel> hihi
[04:30:54] <DJ9DJ> and tools, of course ;)
[04:34:50] <pingufan> When will cradek usually be at his kbd?
[04:35:07] <pingufan> (From now on)
[04:37:23] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: get some Aluminium, get one of these: http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/druckschalter-taster/5040536/ , some cable and get going ;-)
[04:37:44] <Loetmichel> the rest is software ;-)
[04:37:53] <DJ9DJ> hehe, yeah
[04:39:40] <pingufan> :) I plan something similar.
[04:40:47] <pingufan> Will leave now to buy some V-shaped tools with 0.1mm on tip. (For milling isolation from PCBs)
[04:41:58] <DJ9DJ> cya later, pingufan
[06:08:32] <Mjolinor> I got my spindle working, happy puppy :)
[06:08:39] <Mjolinor> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/spindle2.jpg
[06:10:57] <pjm> looks nice
[06:11:16] <pjm> what sort of motor is that?
[06:11:49] <Mjolinor> its one for a radio controlled aeroplane
[06:13:29] <pjm> interesting idea, what sort of RPM?
[06:13:59] <Mjolinor> 35000 maximum
[06:14:02] <Mjolinor> or somethign like that
[06:14:05] <pjm> bugger me thats fast
[06:14:19] <Mjolinor> fastest with it on load seems to be around 15000
[06:14:24] <Mjolinor> which is enough
[06:14:30] <Mjolinor> the motor is 160 watts
[06:14:59] <Mjolinor> according to the spec that is, I dont believe it myself
[06:15:09] <Mjolinor> I htink it is chinese 160 watts for selling on ebay
[06:15:15] <Mjolinor> so problay around 30
[06:17:04] <Mjolinor> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110430740208&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123
[06:17:07] <Mjolinor> that is the motor
[06:17:20] <pingufan> Can you post a picture of the motor itself?
[06:17:52] <Mjolinor> that ebay link has a picture
[06:20:17] <Mjolinor> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180721426116&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123
[06:20:23] <Mjolinor> and that is the speed controller I am using
[06:22:30] <jthornton> Mjolinor: Neat!
[06:22:54] <Mjolinor> :)
[06:24:24] <Mjolinor> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/tep
[06:24:32] <Mjolinor> that si what hte machine was like before I butchered it
[06:25:06] <Mjolinor> but it only had down or up on the spindle and it was no use, it just snapped drills if you tried to do PCBs with it
[06:34:11] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: neat motor
[06:34:17] <Loetmichel> but it IS 160W
[06:34:22] <Loetmichel> ... 3 minutes
[06:34:28] <Loetmichel> tehan it will overheat
[06:34:31] <Loetmichel> thenb
[06:34:34] <Loetmichel> grr
[06:34:34] <Loetmichel> then
[06:46:34] <Mjolinor> :)
[06:46:44] <Mjolinor> doesnt seem to get overwarm
[06:46:59] <Mjolinor> I was more concerned about hte 1£ bearings I fitted to the collet shaft
[06:47:20] <Mjolinor> but htey to seem to be OK for at least 20 minutes which is probably enough time anyway
[06:49:24] <awallin_> what coupling do you have between the motor and the spindle?
[06:50:17] <Mjolinor> just a hole in the end of the spindle shaft
[06:50:23] <Mjolinor> but hte motor is on grommets
[06:50:41] <Mjolinor> the motor is fairly loosely mounted
[06:50:58] <awallin_> I guess it's made for a model-airplaine, where there is lots of airflow for cooling
[06:51:23] <Mjolinor> it has a fan shape cast into the rotating bit, it shifts a lot of air when it is running
[07:04:19] <Loetmichel> awallin__ this little brishless motors are suprisingly powerful
[07:04:39] <Loetmichel> but desingt to run 3-5minutes at max, so they are not concerned with overheating
[07:04:48] <Loetmichel> i have one with 4kW
[07:05:01] <Loetmichel> about 350mm diamater and 40mm long.
[07:05:14] <Loetmichel> 35mm diameter
[07:05:34] <awallin_> can you run them continuoysly with added cooling?
[07:05:47] <Mjolinor> I dont have much hope of the motor lasting long at all
[07:06:02] <Mjolinor> but it seems quite capable so far, I have run it offload for an hour
[07:06:04] <Loetmichel> ant it WILL do 4kw OUTPUT happily at about 80% efficiency
[07:06:12] <Mjolinor> it made a lot of noise but thats about all
[07:07:14] <Loetmichel> for continous use i recommend to load this little beast s only to half the designed load, so they can cope with the heaheat generated
[07:07:44] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: the chinese bearings...
[07:08:29] <Loetmichel> the reason why the little cinese motors are called "chinaklingeln" over here, the bearings sound like a cheap chinese bicycle bell ;-)
[07:08:41] <Mjolinor> :)
[07:08:46] <Mjolinor> good description that
[07:11:00] <Loetmichel> but i have some on my quadcopter for about a year now, or about 100 battery charges (20 minutes flight) sand they still ring, but also still oerate in normal parameters ;-)
[07:11:28] <Loetmichel> +p
[07:25:20] <pingufan> Can someone, please, explain me, how - in detail - a tooltip sensor is included into the tool-change process?
[07:25:36] <pingufan> How is the workflow with such a sensor?
[07:25:45] <pingufan> MANUAL tool change.
[07:26:50] <DJ9DJ> wb pingufan
[07:27:10] <pingufan> Hi!
[07:31:32] <pingufan> I am a bloody beginner with linux-cnc. I code my programs manually (and this works fine), but until now I only used one tool for the whole job. Now I need more tools, but because I have to swap them manually, I also must correct their offset. I want to place a sensor in one corner at a fixed place, so my mill can use it automated.
[07:31:44] <pingufan> How do I work with that?
[07:32:31] <awallin_> after a tool-change you do a probe against the sensor. then make that probe-result change your tool-length offset. that's the theory anyway...
[07:33:42] <pingufan> Ok. So I do first an initial probe with the first tool, then I do the touchoff to the workpiece, and from then it works as you described?
[07:34:01] <pingufan> Or how do i set the Z-Origin for the job?
[07:34:39] <pingufan> Currently I simply touch off with a thin ribbon between tool and workpiece.
[07:34:48] <awallin_> do you have a probe that beeps/lights up when touching the material? you can use that to set workpiece offsets.
[07:35:27] <pingufan> No. I have nothing at all at the moment. Have to bild that, but first I want to understand.
[07:35:55] <pingufan> Can I add the tooltip sensor to my limit switches? They are all in parallel.
[07:36:16] <pingufan> Or does it need a different input to the PC?
[07:36:23] <awallin_> maybe. that would require some special HAL to disable limit-switching during probe.
[07:36:30] <awallin_> it is much simpler with a separate input
[07:36:50] <pingufan> Oh, I can place the sensow inside of the machine limits!
[07:36:58] <jthornton> I think there is a complete example of this on the forum or wiki somewhere
[07:36:59] <pingufan> But on a fixed place.
[07:40:33] <archivist> jthornton, there seems a dead link in that area on the wiki http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/LinuxCNCinfo.pl?ClassicLadderExamples#Single_button_probe_touchoff
[07:44:15] <jthornton> what page is the link on?
[07:44:51] <archivist> touch probes on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNCKnowledgeBase
[07:45:58] <jthornton> yep it seems to be borked
[07:47:58] <jthornton> wonder if it was this page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples
[07:48:41] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples#Single_button_probe_touchoff
[07:49:32] <archivist> ah someone has done a text replace and borked it by the look of it
[07:53:08] <Loetmichel> sooo, wird doch langsam... 11 fuser fertig, 29 to go... ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12891
[07:53:21] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry
[07:53:27] <Loetmichel> shouldnt be german
[07:53:58] <Loetmichel> "so, its taking progress... 11 fusers lamp changed, 29 to go!"
[07:54:21] <Loetmichel> converting 110V brother printers to 230V ;-)
[07:54:30] <Loetmichel> colleague changes the PSUs ;-)
[07:58:11] <TekniQue> printers are the work of satan
[07:58:43] <archivist> hmm that defines me as part Satan :)
[07:58:43] <TekniQue> what is so special about these printers that warrants the work to convert them from 110V?
[08:00:37] <archivist> not the printer, its the customers :)
[08:00:55] <Loetmichel> Tectu: we have about 100 in stock with 110V and customer wants more 230V.
[08:01:10] <Loetmichel> and they are about 3 years out of production
[08:01:32] <Loetmichel> so we cant buy them new
[08:02:21] <TekniQue> are they label printers or something?
[08:04:57] <Loetmichel> normal HL2050 from brother
[08:05:27] <Loetmichel> but end of life, and we modify them for the customer to print in a R19" rack and have a serial interface
[08:05:41] <Loetmichel> and cuistomer doesent want to change the desing
[08:05:45] <archivist> the market where certification for a job happens once and change is resisted
[08:38:18] <pingufan> Is somebody here using AutoCAD and generating 2.5D G-Codes from it?
[08:39:29] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/autocad
[08:39:40] <pingufan> I tried several CAD programs, but noone gets close to ACAD.
[08:40:22] <pingufan> Hi, cradek! How are you? :D
[08:40:47] <cradek> ok so far today, thanks
[08:41:26] <pingufan> Do you have a bit of time to tell a 50 yrs old novice how to add a tooltip sensor?
[08:41:55] <cradek> sorry, can't be much help before breakfast and coffee
[08:41:58] <pingufan> I don't know if you read my earlier posts from today.
[08:42:05] <cpresser> pingufan: i still use AutoCAD to draw really complex parts; medium and small stuff is made completely in vCarvePro
[08:42:12] <cradek> the general idea is to hook a switch to your probe input
[08:42:20] <pingufan> Can I come back later?
[08:42:22] <cradek> no, I haven't read back yet
[08:42:40] <cradek> pingufan: try asking your questions on the channel and anybody, including me, can help
[08:42:44] <pingufan> Can I use the same input as for limit switches, too?
[08:43:21] <cradek> not easily, no. because linuxcnc couldn't tell when you hit a limit vs when you were probing a tool.
[08:43:54] <pingufan> I currently use three limit switches in parallel for auto homing. This works well.
[08:44:17] <cradek> sounds like you'll need another input.
[08:44:38] <cradek> brb
[08:44:50] <pingufan> I only wanted to save the work for disassembling the machine. The drives are well covered.
[08:45:18] <pingufan> But if necessary, I'll do it.
[08:45:48] <pingufan> What is the default for this switch? unpressed open, or unpressed closed?
[08:52:12] <awallin_> see probe-input here http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
[08:52:25] <awallin_> TRUE for probe contact closed (touching), FALSE for probe contact open.
[08:53:43] <pingufan> Is there a "default" input pin for linuxcnc, or not?
[08:54:40] <awallin_> not really, whatever IO pin you have free will do
[08:56:18] <pingufan> When I already open the mill, I think about an emergency button, too. But as I often mill plexi-glass, I would prefer that the following happens when I press this button: Immediately retract the tool to machine's uppermost Z, then turn off spindle. Is this possible? Otherwise the hot tool melts in and damages everything.
[08:57:47] <pingufan> As the machine has a two stages belt drive for the spindle, I would also like to monitor the rotation of the tool spindle. If it stops (belt damage), an emergency stop will also save tools.
[09:01:35] <awallin_> I think some people worked on running some MDI g-code when pressing apyvcp/gladevcp button. that would work as your "soft e-stop" maybe
[09:01:43] <pingufan> EMC can use a tooltip-sensor mounted on the machine's desk, yes? I want to place one in a far corner and sense there - after a tool change - the tool length automatically.
[09:02:08] <awallin_> yes that should be possible
[09:03:05] <pingufan> Ok.
[09:03:32] <pingufan> How does EMC control a spindle's rpm?
[09:04:02] <awallin_> there's a hal pin motion.spindle-speed-out (or similar)
[09:04:11] <pingufan> Would also be a nice feature. Currently I only have a simple "dimmer" and an async motor.
[09:08:00] <pingufan> If it could write out the rpm setting through a serial port, I can build a little microcontroller PCB which does the rest, watches the rpm, ans pulls in worst case the emergency stop.
[09:10:08] <awallin_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/serport.9.html
[09:12:04] <pingufan> Ok. But can EMC write the value out there as ASCII ? I.e. when I use s10000 (for 10000rpm), it shall write out there: 10000+CRLF
[09:12:55] <pingufan> In fact, that will be a PIC with integrated USB port, working as a serial port.
[09:13:40] <jepler> "serport" is for controlling a few of the pins of a 16550-type (not USB) serial port as digital I/Os.
[09:14:16] <pingufan> Therefore I ask. I want to hand over the value of rpm to an external controller.
[09:14:18] <jepler> so it is not appropriate for your purpose.
[09:15:26] <jepler> this task is one for which you would write a "hal userspace component", which you can most easily do in C, C++, or Python. It can use standard Linux APIs to write data to any Linux serial device
[09:15:53] <pingufan> Doesn't sound simple.
[09:16:15] <jepler> if you are the sort of person who writes software for a PIC with integrated USB port, you can learn enough to write this.
[09:16:36] <pingufan> I was afraid you will say this. :)
[09:16:55] <pingufan> But I am a Pascal programmer.
[09:17:34] <pingufan> How do I manually change a tool and correct the offset? (As I currently have no sensor.
[09:18:07] <pingufan> (during a milling job)
[09:19:35] <cpresser> pingufan: split the program in parts (one for each tool); then touch off every tool
[09:19:47] <awallin_> touch off to some known height, and edit the tooltable or tool-length-offset manually
[09:19:56] <archivist> have fixed length tooling and set up a tooling table
[09:19:58] <jepler> your userspace component would be something like this: http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/pingufan.py; in your hal file you'd 'loadusr -Wn pingufan python pingufan.py' and then 'net' the commanded spindle speed to pingufan.spindle-speed
[09:20:45] <pingufan> I have cheap tools witout a ring. So I cannot insert them at same position again. But I will split for the moment my program.
[09:21:39] <pingufan> jepler: This is the whole code? Whow.
[09:21:46] <jepler> well of course it's untested
[09:21:51] <jepler> I probably got some detail wrong
[09:21:59] <jepler> but a hal userspace component that talks to a serial device can be that simple
[09:22:08] <pingufan> I thought this will become a "project".
[09:22:55] <pingufan> This definitely is something I will do then in the future. But first I must get the sensor finished.
[09:23:25] <cpresser> pingufan: another sample code for a userspace pyhton-serial comp: http://tinypaste.com/4f193526
[09:24:18] <pingufan> Umpf.
[09:24:36] <jepler> a little more complicated, but I think I see what it's doing
[09:24:49] <cpresser> thats waht i created it for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWEd8oMo-HA
[09:24:53] <pingufan> I will offer you the PIC code when I am done. If somebody wants to do the same.
[09:25:37] <pingufan> Nice!
[09:25:39] <cpresser> the comunication is plain bytes; bot strings; and my code looks ugly^^
[09:25:56] <pingufan> I will be happy when I get it working with my LCD.
[09:26:43] <jepler> when did python add 'bytearray'? how did I miss hearing about it?
[09:26:58] <jepler> man .. ten years ago I knew python forwards and backwards. not anymore.
[09:27:23] <cpresser> 10 years ago i didnt knew pyhton existed :)
[09:28:16] <pingufan> My AXIS shows a small black vertical bar and right of the coordinates I see only a yellow background. VERY nasty. But I can live with it. And that is only in the grapfical area in AXIS.
[10:12:23] <pingufan> I just finished my first milled PCB. Works nice. Now I can start with making the enclosure for the tip sensor. Is a normal microswitch sufficient? A smaller one.
[10:13:44] <Jymmm> Got Beer? http://images.piccsy.com/cache/images/picc-xjlyyn3cp-210504-320-234.jpg
[10:13:55] <awallin_> I don't think a normal microswitch is very repeatabe
[10:14:41] <Jymmm> pingufan: for a touch probe you mean?
[10:17:03] <awallin_> table mounted tool length probe I think
[10:18:09] <Jymmm> Hi awallin_! Ah, aren't most of those literally continuity testers?
[10:18:57] <awallin_> yes, the onces I've seen light up and beep when there is an electrical contact
[10:19:20] <awallin_> the pro vendors now seem to sell wireless ones that speak radio back to the control
[10:21:42] <JT-Shop> awallin_: when I tested the micro switches on my plasma they were very repeatable
[10:22:45] <pingufan> Jymmm: Yes.
[10:22:59] <awallin_> pingufan: something like this http://www.kwt-shop.de/product_info.php/language/en/info/p4241_Hoehen-Einstellgeraet-elektr--mit-Magnet-.html should be available for 50-100euros. you might be able to hack into the beep/LED and wire that to linuxcnc
[10:23:16] <Jymmm> Mornin JT-Shop, se the pic I linked you?
[10:24:05] <pingufan> awallin_: This part seems to be bigger than my mill ;)
[10:25:03] <pingufan> Is EMC doing multiple touches (as with homing), or only one touch?
[10:25:47] <awallin_> you can probe both the close and open transition of the switch with different g-code
[10:27:37] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: no, I missed it
[10:27:46] <pingufan> How reliable is a metal plate with pullup resistor (to 5V) and touching it with the grounded machine/tool? Of course, a spring-mounted plate.
[10:27:59] <syyl> pretty precise
[10:28:13] <pingufan> As the current goues through the ball-bearings,...
[10:28:21] <syyl> we get well better results than 1/100mm at work
[10:28:21] <pingufan> No problems with contact?
[10:28:41] <syyl> only since we have a new milling spindle with ceramic bearings...
[10:29:21] <syyl> but beside that, no
[10:29:24] <syyl> works fine
[10:29:49] <pingufan> The other idea is to press down a lever which is rised by a spring and keeps this way two contacts in touch.
[10:29:51] <syyl> its just a spring loaded piston in a reamed hole
[10:30:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120207-snow-white-tattoo-5a.jpg
[10:30:27] <pingufan> So the slightest touch opens this contact.
[10:30:51] <pingufan> Jymmm: Ouch.
[10:30:52] <syyl> my personal favoutite for any probe is the six-ball system
[10:30:56] <syyl> like renishaw uses
[10:31:06] <pingufan> ?
[10:31:17] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/syylishaw1.jpg
[10:31:18] <JT-Shop> yea, saw that one
[10:31:20] <pingufan> What's that?
[10:31:41] <pingufan> How does that work?
[10:31:46] <syyl> the pins between the balls close an electric circuit
[10:32:04] <JT-Shop> guess I'll have to make mine soon... BP is up next for conversion to The Enhanced Machine Controller
[10:32:14] <syyl> all three ball/pin pairs are switched in row after each other
[10:32:20] <syyl> if the probe is moved
[10:32:25] <syyl> in any direction
[10:32:36] <pingufan> Ah! So any move opens somewhere.
[10:32:43] <syyl> one pin will leave the balls..
[10:32:45] <syyl> yes
[10:32:56] <pingufan> Good idea.
[10:32:59] <syyl> not mine :)
[10:33:30] <pingufan> Back to the spring mounted metal plate probe: How senitive is that on dust/dirt?
[10:33:42] <syyl> very :D
[10:33:47] <syyl> we cover it, when not in use
[10:33:54] <pingufan> Or is a cutter sharp enough to get through the dirt?
[10:34:07] <syyl> i would not try it...
[10:34:23] <syyl> a crash with that kind of touch-plate is no fun :D
[10:34:29] <syyl> been there, done that ;)
[10:35:09] <pingufan> So the indirect method (two contacts keep lclosed by a spring and get opened by the slightest move) is surely better.
[10:35:27] <syyl> safer..
[10:35:36] <syyl> an opening contact is safer
[10:35:57] <pingufan> As it OPENS, in worst case I cannot probe if dirt is inside. But the tool will survive.
[10:36:54] <pingufan> I'll do it this way. Thanks for your suggestions. I'll come back when I finished the mechanical part.
[10:37:00] <pingufan> Must leave now.
[10:58:56] <Jymmm> I'm aware of Fibinacci and the Golden Ratio, are they saying anything else here other than that? http://synapticstimuli.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/92111-Jim-Denevan_25.jpeg
[11:17:59] <pcw_home> you can also derive the Fibonacci series by solving the golden mean quadrratic iteratively via continued fractions: 1+1/1+1/1+1...
[11:18:22] <joe9> mikeggg: i am looking to buy a milling machine. wanted to check if you/your friends might be interested in selling one.
[11:19:03] <Jymmm> pcw_home: But is that all that says? Just comparing fibinaci and the golden ratio?
[11:21:07] <pcw_home> Fibonacci ratios converge on the golden mean (if you do the continued fraction by hand you will see this)
[11:21:38] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Did you look at the link?
[11:22:06] <pcw_home> Yes
[11:22:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ok, is it saying anything OTHER than comparing the two?
[11:23:35] <pcw_home> its not just a comparison, they are two ways of looking at the same thing
[11:29:30] <pcw_home> X = 1 + 1/x is the definition of the golden mean so lets solve this by substituting 1 for the x on the right
[11:29:32] <pcw_home> so now X= 2 substituting again X= 1+ 1/2 =3/2
[11:29:34] <pcw_home> again X= 1 +2/3 = 5/3
[11:29:35] <pcw_home> again X = 1 +3/5 = 8/5
[11:29:37] <pcw_home> again X= 1 + 5/8 = 13/8
[11:29:39] <pcw_home> recognize the numbers?
[11:42:17] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Um, no.
[11:42:29] <pcw_home> you can see the sequence converge easily on a calculator by repeating +1= 1/x,+1=1/x etc or 1 + 1/x, 1 + 1/x for RPN
[11:43:58] <pcw_home> those numbers are the Fibonacci sequence just falling out of solving for the golden mean iteratively
[11:44:59] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ok, but... Is that drawing saying anything OTHER than comparing the two?
[11:48:11] <craynerd> Hello.. I was hoping someone could give me some help. I am converting a TEP milling machine with 2 axis and solonoid (to drop the cutter into the work). I`ve now replaced the stepper drivers so it can run with emc2 and have both axis working on the emc2 stepconfig wizard. I want just a really simply 2 axis g-code to run but I`ll have to manually (which I can do) drop the cutter into the work
[11:48:11] <craynerd> when it is in position. Other than setup the config wizard, I`m a noob to emc2. Is there any simple way of generating some 2d code to just test the two axis (and for a bit of fun!!) before I rip up the machine again to build the z axis?
[11:49:00] <cradek> craynerd: the AXIS splash screen itself is a common test
[11:49:03] <pjm> i am sure there was someone else with a tep mill here earlier, let me see if the URL is still here
[11:49:07] <cradek> it's very much 2d
[11:49:21] <archivist> pjm its Mjolinor
[11:49:26] <pjm> craynerd http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/tep
[11:49:31] <pjm> archivist thank
[11:49:32] <craynerd> yes, I know mjolinor! :D
[11:49:32] <pjm> +s
[11:50:28] <craynerd> Right...I thought the splash would work. I`m just being soft and need to try it. I`ve not stops so just wanted something even simpler
[11:50:36] <craynerd> I`ll give it a go later!
[11:51:41] <craynerd> thing is, I can`t tell emc2 to lift the spindle and I have to do that manually. Is there anyway of pausing it each time it gets to the end of a cut?
[11:52:01] <cradek> you can use "save gcode as" to get a copy of the splash gcode to edit
[11:52:26] <cradek> then you could insert pauses where you want them as M0 or M1 codes
[11:52:50] <craynerd> ok, I`ll have to do some reading of the commands
[11:53:15] <craynerd> so basically I`d just put a pause in before it lifts the z axis and a pause before it lowers the axis...so I can manually do it
[11:53:40] <cradek> yes that seems quite possible to me
[12:30:51] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the nice Earth
[12:30:59] <alex4nder> hi
[12:35:53] <joe9> hello, wanted to check your opinion on this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G8689 I am looking for a milling machine to drill holes on a pcb. wondering if anyone has experiences with this?
[12:36:40] <IchGuckLive> joe9: dident you consider to build your own
[12:36:50] <joe9> IchGuckLive: yes, I did.
[12:36:53] <IchGuckLive> low cost bel 500Dollar
[12:37:12] <joe9> but, this is something smaller and am thinking of using this till I get to build one.
[12:37:30] <joe9> It will probably take me a while to get through the building
[12:37:34] <alex4nder> joe9: what's your precision/accuracy requirement
[12:37:43] <IchGuckLive> joe9: http://www.sammellothar.de/x-rahmen.mpg
[12:37:44] <joe9> preferably, 1 mil.
[12:38:09] <IchGuckLive> i go on pcb with 0.1mm and a 1500mm/min speed
[12:38:15] <alex4nder> joe9: have you looked at the runout you'll get with that spindle/chuck?
[12:38:31] <IchGuckLive> i got 25 mashines of this in education use
[12:38:44] <IchGuckLive> EU standard card 160x160mm
[12:38:49] <joe9> alex4nder: no, I did not. Thanks for the advice. I did not know that I have to check the runout. that is the skill I have.
[12:39:08] <archivist> joe9, may be too big and slow for pcb work
[12:39:30] <alex4nder> joe9: I have a Taig, and I'm not sure I'd try to use it for real PCB work.
[12:39:42] <alex4nder> "real" .. throughhole would be fine.
[12:40:26] <joe9> alex4nder: some through hole and some not through hole.
[12:40:46] <joe9> alex4nder: I was checking out a Taig, but, they seemed so much more expensive than building one.
[12:40:52] <joe9> alex4nder: do you like it?
[12:41:05] <alex4nder> yah,. I'm glad I got it as my first machine.
[12:41:20] <joe9> $3000 is a lot of money.
[12:41:28] <alex4nder> I spent ~$1200
[12:41:38] <alex4nder> and then speced the steppers and control myself.
[12:41:41] <joe9> alex4nder: how come?
[12:41:49] <joe9> alex4nder: how did you get that?
[12:41:52] <alex4nder> joe9: I bought the manual version with the couplers
[12:41:57] <joe9> oh, ok.
[12:42:18] <alex4nder> got a G540 and steppers, and just did everything else myself.
[12:42:21] <alex4nder> 48v supply, etc.
[12:43:14] <joe9> alex4nder: that is what I was spec'ing too. bom that I was starting with: http://codepad.org/oLeLIiot
[12:43:46] <joe9> alex4nder: why a taig as the base machine and not something cheaper?
[12:43:56] <IchGuckLive> joe9: mill examples http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/220212193424_all_boards.jpg
[12:44:28] <alex4nder> joe9: you don't need it for PCB work, but the Taig is much more robust than both platforms in your BOM.
[12:44:50] <alex4nder> and now I'm milling steel with it, etc.
[12:45:10] <IchGuckLive> joe9: low cost stepper driver board http://www.ebay.de/itm/3-Achse-TB6560AHQ-Schrittmotor-Steuerkarte-0-5A-2-5A-/140702843278?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item20c28b018e
[12:46:04] <IchGuckLive> joe9: steppers http://www.ebay.de/itm/SCHRITTMOTOR-STEPMOTOR-ASTROSYN-23LM-C355-44W-s-BILD-STEP-MOTOR-/270827237702?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item3f0e8fb146
[12:46:24] <IchGuckLive> it works perfect for PCB
[12:46:41] <IchGuckLive> joe9: where are you from Country
[12:46:51] <joe9> IchGuckLive: I cannot open the x-rahmen.mpg link, for whatever reason.
[12:47:13] <joe9> http://codepad.org/MYBziXc7
[12:47:21] <IchGuckLive> download it its a movy cad impression
[12:47:39] <joe9> it downloads a 4.4k file and I opened it with mplayer.
[12:47:59] <joe9> IchGuckLive: atlanta, usa
[12:48:06] <IchGuckLive> ok thanks
[12:51:37] <joe9> IchGuckLive: the pcb's you have are pretty cool. did you do the etching with the machine too? or, just the drilling?
[12:52:28] <joe9> alex4nder: is this what you have?
[12:52:31] <joe9> http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html
[12:52:51] <alex4nder> joe9: yup
[12:52:53] <IchGuckLive> all is done by linuxcnc eagle with a 0.8mm cutter
[12:53:22] <mrsun> yeey finaly got to reassemble the control computer for the mill! =)
[12:53:25] <alex4nder> joe9: the other bonus for me is that taig is a US company that makes all the core mill pieces themselves in the US.
[12:53:29] <alex4nder> so getting parts is trivial.
[12:53:35] <alex4nder> you call them up, they send them to you.
[12:54:02] <joe9> alex4nder: did you buy this? 2019CR-ER
[12:54:44] <joe9> or, the 2018 one?
[12:54:55] <joe9> did you buy it with the upgraded motor?
[12:54:57] <alex4nder> the 2019, but I had them install manual handles on it, and send me the couplers separate.
[12:55:20] <alex4nder> so I learned to use the mill manually first.
[12:56:30] <joe9> alex4nder: sorry for bothering you about this: is this the package that you bought: 2019 converted to CNC ready with Nema 23 motor mounts, adjustable bronze leadscrew nuts, and upgraded 1/4 horse power motor . Does not include stepper motors or control system.
[12:56:37] <joe9> this is $1100/-
[12:56:38] <alex4nder> yes
[12:57:02] <alex4nder> the package I got included a vise, collets, a couple endmills, manual handling, and shipping.
[12:57:17] <IchGuckLive> joe9: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-/190643190988?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c63383ccc
[12:57:35] <alex4nder> joe9: 2019CRERspecial2 <- so this part number, for $1100, and then add shipping and handles and it came to about $1200
[12:58:04] <IchGuckLive> this is all you need to spend
[12:59:23] <joe9> alex4nder: http://www.taigtools.com/2018special2.html
[12:59:38] <alex4nder> yes
[12:59:46] <joe9> IchGuckLive: http://codepad.org/oLeLIiot that was my original plan.
[13:01:07] <IchGuckLive> i woudt go for a proxxon IB/E for the spindel it is the best and low cost for PCB use only
[13:01:20] <IchGuckLive> you can also go and mill necuron modells
[13:01:27] <IchGuckLive> and make some plastic parts
[13:02:51] <joe9> IchGuckLive: I read on the internet that wolfgang spindle is the best. curious on why you find the proxxon IB/E better?
[13:03:47] <IchGuckLive> do you got a lionk to wolfgang
[13:04:03] <joe9> I read that proxxon IB/E are very highly rated too.
[13:04:12] <joe9> http://www.wolfgangengineering.com/Home.php
[13:04:18] <joe9> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/pcb_milling/81836-cnc_pcb_mill_buy_diy-2.html
[13:07:16] <IchGuckLive> joe9: nice i have read the datas but it is not required for your work the prioxxon makes 40.000rpm witch is better for the Engraver V -shape
[13:08:01] <IchGuckLive> the ibe does not get hot even after 4hr of milling at my experiance
[13:08:17] <IchGuckLive> ok its up to you what you want to spend
[13:08:41] <IchGuckLive> the ibe is on 110V
[13:10:01] <joe9> the ibe seems highly rated. Thanks for that suggestion/advice. It seems to be better than the wolfgang stuff, as I read up more on it.
[13:10:44] <IchGuckLive> i work for 10Years with it and it works and works and works
[13:11:11] <IchGuckLive> 220V German power O.o
[13:11:32] <DJ9DJ> hmm, 230 :)
[13:11:47] <IchGuckLive> 240 Acculy
[13:11:50] <joe9> IchGuckLive: http://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28481.php this looks like a dremel
[13:11:55] <IchGuckLive> in the power plug
[13:12:54] <IchGuckLive> joe9: looks but its mutch more industrial and it makes what it says
[13:13:18] <joe9> IchGuckLive: how about the mount? Do I need to buy a different spindle or something like that?
[13:13:39] <IchGuckLive> 20,000rpm. US Version thats reladet to the power of 110V i guess
[13:14:02] <IchGuckLive> the mount is a 20mm hole in your tool clamb
[13:14:58] <IchGuckLive> someone in your range may drill a 20mm hile in a 15mm ALU plate
[13:15:08] <IchGuckLive> hole
[13:15:52] <IchGuckLive> or some guys here will do it for you and ship it to Atlanta Georgia
[13:17:34] <IchGuckLive> the mashine can build up real pricy if you go for good parts like Leadshine M542 as Driver with Km56 steppers and ballbearing stuff on all axis
[13:17:51] <joe9> IchGuckLive: quick question, with the proxxon IB/E, I do not have to worry with the spindle? correct?
[13:17:59] <joe9> it is already in that machine.
[13:18:32] <IchGuckLive> no with ib/E not the smaler oones are not that good
[13:19:13] <joe9> I would need the sable cnc frame + proxxon IB/E + motor mount + gecko 540 + power supply
[13:19:39] <joe9> + change the frame to use ball screws on all axes.
[13:19:57] <joe9> leadshine M542 > gecko 540?
[13:20:06] <joe9> gecko G540, I mean.
[13:21:13] <joe9> + stepper motors
[13:21:21] <IchGuckLive> with that small mashine i woudt go for the TB6560 3axis board for 60Dollars
[13:21:48] <IchGuckLive> and the epson Astron steppers that fit your need perfect
[13:21:56] <IchGuckLive> 20Dollar eatch
[13:21:59] <joe9> IchGuckLive: will that give the precision required for smd pcb's?
[13:22:32] <IchGuckLive> yes shoure the board makes it on that mashine to 0.005mm
[13:22:50] <IchGuckLive> there will be in max speed also only 0.1mm
[13:23:10] <IchGuckLive> 24V 5.6A needet
[13:24:07] <IchGuckLive> smd needs a 0.3mm Vshape 30Deg
[13:26:52] <IchGuckLive> the epson stepppers from astron are on 2.4V so lots of speed at 24V
[13:29:24] <IchGuckLive> joe9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBMkT39LtEU the mashine in full movement
[13:29:42] <IchGuckLive> joe9: this is my channel there are lots of stuff
[13:30:01] <joe9> ok, thanks. will check it out. thanks a lot for your advice.
[13:30:12] <syyl_ws> you are dusting that material
[13:30:14] <syyl_ws> not milling Oo
[13:30:39] <IchGuckLive> necuron no mill yust dust
[13:31:17] <syyl_ws> rpm of the spindle? Oo
[13:31:19] <IchGuckLive> This needs a G64 P0.05
[13:31:31] <IchGuckLive> 25.000
[13:31:48] <syyl_ws> two flutes?
[13:32:05] <IchGuckLive> no flute at all its a Dimond
[13:32:20] <syyl_ws> ah ok
[13:32:22] <syyl_ws> dusting :D
[13:32:54] <syyl_ws> and necuron (PU foam..) will make chips...
[13:33:27] <syyl_ws> put your feed up and get a proper endmill ;)
[13:33:48] <IchGuckLive> i know i will mill another sample
[13:34:22] <IchGuckLive> maybe tommorrow i will see
[13:34:46] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive: do you have the sketch/driver for your pendent up somewhere?
[13:35:31] <IchGuckLive> no sorry but i can mail you averything if you want
[13:35:46] <syyl_ws> for 25000rpm about 3500mm/min feed would be adequate...(with a two flute endmill)...
[13:35:56] <skunkworks> Could you? I am thinking about making one and want to see how others are doing it.
[13:36:05] <skunkworks> samcoinc at gmail dot com
[13:39:09] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks: files are out to you
[13:40:36] <joe9> IchGuckLive: re. the astrosyn motors, are the same thing as the nema 23 stepper motors?
[13:41:09] <IchGuckLive> yes -> nema23 is the mount type
[13:41:17] <IchGuckLive> 56mm Square
[13:41:37] <IchGuckLive> they run at 1.5A/ph
[13:41:39] <joe9> oh, ok. do the motors come with the mounts?
[13:41:56] <IchGuckLive> no
[13:42:52] <IchGuckLive> but as you go for a fix mashine there are motors and driver includet as i read you only need the power supply
[13:43:37] <IchGuckLive> if you decide for own build with TB6560 driver you need the 2.5A board not the 3.5
[13:44:11] <joe9> oh, ok. I think I understand it. the http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-/190636230989?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c62ce094d comes with the motors included
[13:44:23] <joe9> so, I do not have to worry about buying the motor
[13:44:41] <IchGuckLive> yes for your need enoph power at all
[13:45:33] <IchGuckLive> the axis spindel and connection to the masshine is to worry only if thats alow price
[13:45:55] <joe9> so, it is just sable + stepper driver (TB6560 or gecko) + proxxon IB/E + power supply + mount for proxxon IB/E + ball screws on all axes.
[13:46:43] <IchGuckLive> there is a driver board inside the mashie you do not need the tb or gecko at all
[13:47:28] <IchGuckLive> and the ball screw is only if it is that bad it will stay your need in this config
[13:47:49] <joe9> this says that I need the stepper driver. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-/190636230989?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c62ce094d
[13:47:55] <IchGuckLive> ibe power and mount is all you need
[13:50:22] <IchGuckLive> joe9: i lookt then you need the 3.5A board for this steppers
[13:51:30] <IchGuckLive> joe9: the leadscrew is garbige
[13:52:03] <joe9> the 3.5A board == gecko G540 or TB6560, correct? or, is it a different board?
[13:52:06] <IchGuckLive> so yes on the new leadsystem bud then i woudt go for a own build at all with best part
[13:52:20] <joe9> sorry, if that is a basic question. just want to make sure that I do not miss anything.
[13:52:21] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive: Thanks! I'm I missing the arduino sketch? (program)? I cannot find it.
[13:52:35] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks: i look
[13:52:51] <skunkworks> I see the python program on the computer side..
[13:54:35] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks: out to you
[13:55:29] <IchGuckLive> joe9: the steppers take 1.7A so you need to go there with your board
[13:56:22] <IchGuckLive> joe9: as it is for M10 leadscrew you will rubn i n messurment proplems if you change this
[13:56:58] <joe9> oh, that will be a problem, then.
[13:57:17] <joe9> IchGuckLive: did you change the screws to ball screws?
[13:57:36] <IchGuckLive> there is not enoph room to fit the ballscrew Trapez in maybee
[13:58:00] <IchGuckLive> http://stores.ebay.de/Metallbau-Pietrzak/_i.html?rt=nc&_nkw=rg7&_sc=1&_sid=44185625&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14&_sop=2&_sc=1
[13:58:10] <IchGuckLive> look at this TR10x2
[13:58:35] <IchGuckLive> thats the minimum need for a good pcb board
[13:58:48] <IchGuckLive> there are inch equals for this also
[13:58:57] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive: Thanks@
[13:59:01] <IchGuckLive> NP
[13:59:10] <skunkworks> I can almost follow it ;)
[13:59:26] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks: there are 4 mashines in the code you will only need one so reduce it to a ninimum
[14:00:08] <IchGuckLive> no mashine menue at all no Estop seperate window no Welcome frame and so o n
[14:00:11] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive: how is it running?
[14:00:18] <IchGuckLive> perfect
[14:00:26] <skunkworks> awesom
[14:00:30] <skunkworks> +e
[14:00:38] <IchGuckLive> the most problem is to keep the USB cable stable fitted
[14:01:23] <skunkworks> IchGuckLive: did you have a video up on youtube?
[14:01:32] <IchGuckLive> i got a Pyvcp frame dockt to axis that keeps on talking if the connection fails
[14:01:39] <IchGuckLive> yes
[14:01:54] <IchGuckLive> the test not a real mashine
[14:02:29] <IchGuckLive> but you can see the mouvment in the axis window on command
[14:03:25] <skunkworks> I like that you are using interupts for the encoder
[14:03:28] <IchGuckLive> my only request to axis woudt be to get a hal info when the mashine has stoppt after MDI accourd
[14:03:51] <IchGuckLive> i2c is the best idee i think
[14:04:53] <IchGuckLive> the python ignors all the commands from arduino if the timelimit is not over on commond out thats not the way it shoudt work
[14:05:12] <IchGuckLive> e-stop is regonized at all times
[14:05:24] <danimal_laptop> hi
[14:05:37] <IchGuckLive> ok im off its late here
[14:05:46] <IchGuckLive> till tomorrow same time
[14:05:49] <danimal_laptop> hey skunkworks
[14:06:58] <danimal_laptop> guess i havent been on here in a couple months...
[14:07:00] <skunkworks> Hey danimal_laptop: long time
[14:07:12] <danimal_laptop> yea, how's it going?
[14:07:24] <skunkworks> no major issues.
[14:07:50] <joe9> found this http://codepad.org/W2wuAiq9 at http://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-chat/going-into-the-unknown-of-cnc-pcb-milling/
[14:09:03] <danimal_laptop> thats good. same here.
[14:17:28] <skunkworks> joe9: this is similar to how the gcode.ulp in eagle works http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc;h=8b41233d2afe19ef6b9f17706108d0eb356f066b;hb=HEAD
[14:17:48] <skunkworks> for tool length setting
[14:18:15] <joe9> skunkworks: are you sure that is for me?
[14:18:20] <jthornton> hi Dan
[14:19:06] <skunkworks> (set the first tool - emc checks it's length and then every tool change after measures the new tool lenght and offsets it based on the first tool)
[14:19:16] <skunkworks> joe9: maybe not... I have only been skimming..
[14:30:58] <joe9> alex4nder: did you check out this http://littlemachineshop.com/3900 , before buying the taig? http://littlemachineshop.com/Info/minimill_compare.php
[14:32:02] <archivist> joe9, max rpm is too low for pcb work
[14:32:46] <alex4nder> exactly..
[14:36:15] <syyl> you CAN do pcb work with low rpm
[14:36:17] <syyl> no problem
[14:36:24] <syyl> but it takes a bit more time..
[14:37:09] <archivist> with a year to wait :)
[14:37:49] <syyl> a 160x100mm pcb took about an hour
[14:38:07] <syyl> with 4000rpm or so max...
[14:38:09] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/port4_2.jpg
[14:38:21] <andypugh> Felt-tip pen and FeCl is pretty quick :-)
[14:38:48] <andypugh> Yours is neather.
[14:39:20] <joe9> syyl: that is pretty slick. what is the size of the thinnest trace in mil?
[14:39:28] <syyl> in mil?
[14:39:30] <syyl> no idea :D
[14:39:35] <joe9> syyl, what m/c did you use?
[14:39:37] <syyl> 0,1mm broad
[14:39:51] <joe9> syyl: 0.1 mm = 3.8 mil, i think
[14:40:00] <joe9> 1 mm ~ 38.4 mil
[14:40:11] <joe9> syyl: what machine did you use to do that?
[14:40:44] <cradek> 39.4
[14:41:28] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2011-10-19_21-00-37_535.jpg
[14:41:35] <syyl> modified deckel engraver..
[14:42:03] <archivist> deckel is cheating :)
[14:42:52] <andypugh> syyl: Is the Y on the head or the table on that machine?
[14:43:11] <syyl> y is the table
[14:43:19] <syyl> the head can be moved manual in y
[14:43:25] <syyl> to enlarge the workenvelope..
[14:43:38] <archivist> joe9, you can get good results with old industrial machines modified, syyl has starting from an old but excellent machine
[14:43:51] <andypugh> Ah, OK, so not the conventional Deckel milling machine layout (which I rather approve of)
[14:43:55] <joe9> what do you think of this? http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/tls/2850992846.html
[14:44:07] <syyl> right, andypugh
[14:44:18] <joe9> good enough, it looks crappy. but, not sure if it can be modified to work well enough at these precisions.
[14:44:21] <syyl> i couldnt afford a fp1 ;)
[14:44:37] <joe9> archivist: any thoughts, please?
[14:44:56] <andypugh> joe9: I am not too convinced by round-column machines like that.
[14:45:18] <archivist> joe9, I had one (chinese) sold it as not square and the column not held square (round column)
[14:45:40] <joe9> so, not worth it, then.
[14:45:44] <andypugh> Though if you were to CNC it then you would CNC the quill not the column
[14:45:46] <archivist> they were imported and badged
[14:45:54] <andypugh> Looks like a Ring Fu?
[14:46:01] <andypugh> (Rong Fu)
[14:46:21] <archivist> mine was Alpine from graham engineering
[14:46:47] <archivist> effin heavy they are
[14:47:22] <andypugh> If it is a Rong Fu from Taiwan then that's a good thing, as they have a decent reputation.
[14:48:55] <archivist> andypugh, did the reputation come from people who dont know better?
[14:49:27] <andypugh> Well, I guess that there might be substandard clones.
[14:50:05] <archivist> although I did do a job on mine that a subcontract machinist said was impossible
[14:50:28] <andypugh> My lathe appears to be a cheap clone of a Syil. So, a cheap knock-off of a cheap low-quality machine :-)
[14:52:12] <raynerd> Does anyone on here use a xbox controller or other joystick to manually move your machine with emc2?
[14:52:40] <danimal_laptop> hi John
[14:53:23] <archivist> look on the wiki for joystick examples
[14:53:45] <raynerd> yes, have done so. Just wondering how useful people found it as apposed to simply using the keypad
[14:54:16] <archivist> I use the keyboard
[14:54:47] <andypugh> I use the keyboard for the lathe, and the joypad for the mill.
[14:56:08] <andypugh> With the lathe I set the jog-speed low and use shift-arrow to move rapidly. This isn't an option on the mill as my keyboard layout doesn't allow shift-z-jog
[14:56:48] <andypugh> I do find the joypad set up with three speeds on the back-buttons to be a very useful controller. It means I can stand where I can see, and still jog.
[14:57:30] <archivist> I fiddled the jogs on the mill because I have 5 axes
[14:57:58] <andypugh> Show-off!
[14:58:35] <raynerd> haha
[14:58:37] <archivist> hey you did hobbing...show off! :)
[14:59:21] <JT-Shop> I use a joypad on my plasma
[14:59:27] <andypugh> I put it on YouTube, so am left with no defence.
[15:00:09] <tom3p> sorry off topic: is there a channel for ebikes? i have a BLDC with some ? dead LiFePo4 cells ( and this x-chat irc client hangs when I get the channels list )
[15:00:34] <archivist> andypugh, I must "borrow" that one day and make a helical
[15:01:56] <raynerd> you got a link to the youtube clip?
[15:02:41] <andypugh> raynerd: http://youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn4
[15:05:33] <archivist> climb milling and a little hob mounted a little eccentric
[15:16:13] <mrsun> Start CW, Start CCW, E-Fault, Fault-Reset, Frequency Ref <-- would that be common to have from the pc to the vfd? :)
[15:26:18] <mrsun> or? :)
[15:26:28] <mrsun> dont wanna fall short on pins on the control cable :P
[15:26:39] <mrsun> nor optocouplers
[15:31:14] <mrsun> hell ill buy 4 5 6 7 8 pole connectors and ill just figure it out later, always good to have laying around :P
[15:45:04] <andypugh> mrsun: Mine doesn't have fault or fault-reset. Just common, forwards, backwards, speed.
[15:51:13] <joe9> alex4nder: where do you live? checking if it would be possible to get some work (with pay) at your place..
[15:51:23] <joe9> i am based in Atlanta, ga
[15:52:22] <alex4nder> joe9: I'm not kitted out to do outside work.. we only use our mill setup for in-house prototypes.
[15:52:58] <syyl> inhouse prototyping shop?
[15:53:01] <syyl> thats fun :)
[15:55:02] <gene77> Hi everybody. The update manager says it cannot connect to the buildbot server, Problems?
[15:55:36] <cradek> big storm in CO
[15:55:44] <cradek> you'll have to just try later
[15:56:22] <andypugh> What's the SLA?
[15:56:30] <andypugh> :-)
[15:57:27] <cradek> too bad we don't use THE CLOUD
[15:57:30] <mrsun> andypugh, im thinking putting vfd into fault if some other fault happends can be a good thing =)
[15:58:11] <cradek> oh yes!
[15:58:20] <cradek> also the other way, vfd fault must stop motion
[15:58:27] <mrsun> mm
[15:58:42] <mrsun> feedback for that also =)
[15:58:50] <mrsun> im sure ill end up at like 8 cables in the end :P
[15:59:21] <mrsun> time to sleep, up to work .. sigh :P
[16:08:26] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:09:41] <joe9> i have a drill press. Is it easy to convert it to a milling machine, by adding a precision milling vise and removing the spindle runout?
[16:10:17] <cradek> a drill press spindle is not made for side forces, since drills use only axial force
[16:11:02] <cradek> so while it's possible to mill with one, you'll probably just ruin it and then have neither mill nor drill press :-/
[16:11:27] <joe9> ok, thanks. I do not need to use any axial force. I have a row of holes to drill
[16:11:29] <cradek> also, if you have MT or JT anywhere involved in holding your tool on, side force can make it come apart
[16:11:43] <joe9> I am a finding it a pita to align the drill bit to each hole and then drill.
[16:11:45] <cradek> oh, for hole patterns of course it's fine
[16:12:10] <joe9> so am looking for ways to get the alignment and accuracy easily, without manually doing it for each hole.
[16:12:23] <cradek> you just need to do a row of holes?
[16:12:29] <joe9> yes.
[16:12:42] <cradek> various kinds of fixture for that come to mind
[16:13:02] <cradek> perhaps a plate with holes where you poke in a dowel pin, for you to slide your part along
[16:13:41] <cradek> or if they're a common spacing, say 1", you could use some 123 blocks
[16:13:55] <joe9> let me google on 123 blocks.
[16:14:11] <joe9> they have different spacings.
[16:14:13] <cradek> they are just blocks that are precisely 1" x 2" x 3"
[16:14:28] <joe9> but, they are not big either. 8cm x 8cm or 10cm x 10cm work surface.
[16:14:33] <andypugh> Joe9: http://www.instructables.com/id/Drill-Small-Precise-Holes/
[16:15:38] <joe9> andypugh: thanks a lot.
[16:16:04] <joe9> cradek, what do you think of a precision milling vise?
[16:16:26] <cradek> in the very old days, they used gage blocks just like andy's instructable (on a faceplate on a lathe usually)
[16:17:42] <cradek> joe9: assuming you mean a vise with XY screws, nothing except I bet they come in wildly varying quality :-)
[16:18:00] <joe9> cradek, yes an x-y table.
[16:18:25] <cradek> if you have one pattern to make many times, you will have better and easier results with a proper fixture!
[16:18:31] <joe9> I have a cheap one from harborfreight, but, it has too much play and I cannot get it to align properly on the drill press plate.
[16:18:47] <cradek> for doing many different patterns, an XY table might be better and faster
[16:19:09] <joe9> cradek, I am noob, so any fixture you can think of, please put it here. I will google and read up on it and see if it can help me.
[16:19:54] <joe9> cradek, any recommendations for a precision x-y table and how do I get it attached to the drill press board. just screws or is there any secret/trick to aligning it properly.
[16:19:56] <cradek> joe9: I have to run - might consider drawing a picture of what you need to machine, and put it on imagebin.org - some people here are experienced machinists and tend to have lots of clever ideas
[16:20:16] <joe9> ok, will do that in the next hour or two.
[16:20:21] <cradek> ok, bbl
[16:20:23] <joe9> cradek, thanks for your help.
[16:26:02] <andypugh> Don't discount printing a pattern on paper and centre-punching through it.
[16:26:28] <joe9> andypugh: Is there a tool for centre-punching?
[16:26:30] <archivist> etch the hole then use that as a guide
[16:27:59] <joe9> archivist: good idea, thanks. there are some holes where I do not etch too.
[16:28:07] <andypugh> joe9: Well, a centre punch, normally.
[16:28:13] <joe9> andypugh: the article is awesome. exactly what I needed.
[16:28:54] <archivist> and a magnifier to see what you are doing, all my pcb drilling has been on a drill press but on scrap wood and hand moved
[16:30:19] <andypugh> Either the basic one you hit with a hammer, or you can get automatic ones (which are great tools, I have three). http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARETT-18B-AUTOMATIC-CENTER-PUNCH-/180824570817 for example (Stick with Starrett, they are a tool that needs making properly).
[16:31:01] <danimal_laptop> JT-Shop: how goes it?
[16:32:22] <JT-Shop> danimal_laptop: good, just leaving though
[16:32:42] <danimal_laptop> ah, ok, take it easy
[16:43:38] <gene77> cradek Thanks
[17:22:32] <joe9> can something like this be done with a dial indicator? http://www.instructables.com/id/Accurized-Craftsman-Drill-Press/
[17:23:43] <andypugh> Yes, and it wouldn't be unusual to do so.
[17:23:58] <archivist> yes but dial indicators mostly have short travels
[17:23:59] <andypugh> Or you can buy purpose-made things for the same job.
[17:24:10] <Tom_itx> i did similar on my lathe with a dial
[17:24:50] <andypugh> Aye, we use a DRO on my Colchester a lot, the X slide has a 6tpi screw and a 1" thimble.
[17:25:08] <joe9> which DRO?
[17:25:35] <joe9> or, are all calipers == DRO's?
[17:25:36] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/sumo_files/lathe3.jpg
[17:25:38] <andypugh> Whatever was lying about
[17:25:46] <andypugh> joe9: Have you seen these? http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/vertical-linear-digital-scale-100mm-4-inch.html
[17:26:18] <joe9> andypugh: that is cool. way better than a caliper, I assume.
[17:26:58] <archivist> it is the same technology as a caliper
[17:27:21] <archivist> some have slow update rate making them a bit hard to use
[17:27:21] <joe9> is there something like that, without the need for batteries?
[17:27:55] <joe9> i know they have normal calipers, but, that is what I like with the dial indicator.
[17:27:59] <joe9> no batteries.
[17:38:44] <Thetawaves> my new atom system has less than 10us jitter
[17:38:45] <Thetawaves> :D
[17:41:04] <jdhnc> which one?
[17:41:49] <cpresser> joe9: you can modify cheap chinese calipers.
[17:42:06] <cpresser> and even hook them up to your controller
[17:42:20] <Thetawaves> atom 330
[17:42:59] <Thetawaves> i bet i can get less if i isolate one of the cpus
[17:44:48] <cpresser> joe9: this guy even sells kits, but also has the complete documentaiton on his webpage: http://www.yadro.de/dro/detail-interface.html#a2
[17:45:32] <andypugh> Not much point modifying cheap chinese calipers when cheap chinese DROs are the same price.
[17:46:28] <cpresser> i think its quite usefull to mod them, if you want to have a DRO with a large display for all axis in one place
[17:47:10] <archivist> dro types have a connection and accessory displays
[17:48:10] <cpresser> ah okay. didnt know that such things are out there :)
[17:48:56] <andypugh> cpresser: See the link I posted
[17:53:05] <joe9> cpresser: thanks.
[17:56:08] <joe9> i have a central machinery 38142 drill press that I am trying to do this (precision depth measurement) with
[18:13:14] <joe9> is this considered expensive? http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2008
[18:13:54] <andypugh> For a good one, that would be cheap. That doesn't look like a good one.
[18:14:21] <joe9> andypugh: oh, thanks. which would be a good one? manufacturer or model, please? if you do not mind.
[18:15:24] <joe9> i am looking for something for a drill press.
[18:15:31] <andypugh> For some classes of work, this would be quite good. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAMILTON-VARI-MATIC-DRILL-PRESS-115V-SINGLE-PHASE-X-Y-TABLE-/300639559722
[18:16:28] <joe9> andypugh: do you consider this a good article to align my drill press? http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/Main/Articles/Drill_Press_Maintenance_Skill_Builder_Power_Tool_T_8549.aspx
[18:17:17] <joe9> I also do not have the laser sights with my drill press. Do they actually help?
[18:17:41] <andypugh> Looks OK at a glance, but I am no expert. I might play one on the Internet, but there are lots of things I know little about.
[18:17:59] <andypugh> I have never tried a laser sight on a drill.
[18:19:25] <joe9> andypugh: i already have a drill press. I am just looking for an xy table.
[18:22:38] <andypugh> This looks like a lot of nice parts: http://www.ebay.com/itm/XY-Stage-w-Gurley-Precision-Optical-Encoders-Schneeberger-Rails-/200710243628
[18:24:41] <andypugh> Aha! The secret code-word combination might be "compound table" http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHASE-11-260-512-MILLING-DRILLING-COMPOUND-SLIDE-TABLE-12-X5-5-X4-5-/230751384387
[18:26:11] <joe9> andypugh: that is cool. I think that is what I need. correct? for moving a piece on the x or y axis while drilling a long set of holes.
[18:26:18] <joe9> using the drill press.
[18:26:22] <andypugh> Yes.
[18:26:45] <joe9> andypugh: that is very helpful. thanks a lot.
[18:27:37] <andypugh> Digital readouts and tables produced by Excel can make it easier if the holes are not a full turn apart.
[18:29:33] <joe9> btw, how do you clamp a work piece to that table. just some cheap small harborfreight clamps?
[18:33:21] <andypugh> Whatever works.
[18:33:44] <andypugh> Vacuum, magnets, clamps, double-sided tape.
[18:34:50] <andypugh> You would generally fit something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/Forged-Clamp-Adjustable-Asselby-T-Slot-1-2-Brand-New-/390394139513 into the T-slots on the table.
[18:38:07] <andypugh> But there are so many sizes of T-slot that you need to make sure you get the right one.
[18:38:15] <joe9> ok, thanks.
[18:38:25] <Thetawaves> had to turn off compiz for some reason because it was making the system freeze
[18:38:27] <andypugh> Logging off time
[18:38:40] <joe9> thanks a lot for your help
[20:00:30] <lamecake12> Hey guys, I'm looking at suppliers for stepping motors. What's the consensus of importing chinese motors (like ones from aliexpress, dhgate or ebay)?
[20:01:19] <jdhnc> they are inexpensive.
[20:03:36] <lamecake12> Average, nothing to make the eyes water
[20:05:57] <lamecake12> I'm getting keen to build this lol. after years of dreaming, and doing engineering, it's time to build my own... Currently it is extremely over-engineered :P
[20:26:30] <Tom_itx> keeling has decent stepper prices
[22:11:06] <morfic> has anyone ever made something like hm2-pyvcp mentioned in src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/TODO?