#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-21

[01:15:12] <Jymmm> cradek: jepler SWPadnos alex_joni Paste this into google: sqrt(cos(x))*cos(300x)+sqrt(abs(x))-0.7)*(4-x*x)^0.01, sqrt(6-x^2), -sqrt(6-x^2) from -4.5 to 4.5
[01:56:23] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:45:46] <Jymmm> The world really is binary... http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luaffcycHP1qfansjo1_500.jpg
[02:51:01] <pjm> good morning
[02:51:22] <jdhnc> I don't know that I would say 'good' exactly.
[02:51:33] <pjm> lol me neither ;-)
[02:51:41] <pjm> almost the weekend anyway! yay
[02:51:49] <jdhnc> really?
[02:51:51] <pjm> + pancake day today
[02:51:56] <jdhnc> I must have missed a day or three.
[02:52:07] <pjm> lol, be positive
[02:52:15] <pjm> monday is 'almost' the weekend!
[02:52:25] <jdhnc> I'm positive I would rather be at home asleep than 'working'
[02:52:43] <pjm> hhh good idea yes
[03:12:13] <cncbasher> mhabeler> online ?
[03:26:17] <mhaberler> yes
[03:26:28] <cncbasher> hi
[03:26:31] <mhaberler> hi!
[03:26:44] <cncbasher> just reply'd to your query
[03:26:55] <cncbasher> change ini display entry to gscreen
[03:26:59] <mhaberler> AHA
[03:27:17] <cncbasher> instead of axis etc
[03:28:34] <cncbasher> once open the preferences page gives you exit command , and also you can change out of full screen mode
[06:00:29] <Tectu> anyone here printed with EMC?
[06:03:45] <archivist> I think there is something on the wiki, what kind of printing
[06:05:47] <archivist> silk screen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RH_H7jgQQY
[06:32:05] <Tectu> archivist, 3D printing, reprap etc
[07:25:28] <awallin_> Tectu: http://reprap.org/wiki/EMCRepRap 2 or 3 things to consider for 3d printing if you have a xyz-router: temp-control of extruder and/or bed. Extruder control (A-axis works for linuxcnc).
[07:26:49] <Tectu> awallin_, i allread read that, I am just not sure about how to set up the extruder to EMC
[07:27:19] <awallin_> depends on your extruder. what motor/drive does it have?
[07:28:12] <Tectu> at the moment none. I just have an XYZ mill, with NEMA 17 motors, controller by L297 and wired up to the parallel port and controlled with EMC
[07:28:26] <Tectu> I know that i need an extruder and an extruder controller
[07:28:32] <Tectu> and then?
[07:28:51] <awallin_> change the emc config to include an A-axis
[07:29:05] <Tectu> okay
[07:29:11] <awallin_> figure out where on the parallel port you want the a-axis step/dir. wire them to extruder controller.
[07:29:35] <Tectu> how does EMC know how to work with A axis? when to go step forward, when backward etc
[07:30:07] <awallin_> the g-code for printing should include A-axis commands whenever you want plastic
[07:30:29] <awallin_> last I tried it was not that hard to get this kind of g-code from repstrapper(?) or skeinforge
[07:30:46] <Tectu> which one do/did you use?
[07:30:48] <awallin_> I think those programs usually output an "E" axis, but that can be changed to "A"
[07:31:21] <awallin_> I don't really use any actively. It seems slic3r is quite popular now (?)
[07:31:53] <awallin_> you can also do active temp-control with LinuxCNC if you want (and if you have parallel port pins to spare)
[07:33:05] <Tectu> btw, is skeinforce better than the repstrap software?
[07:33:59] <awallin_> my impression is that skeinforge has grown to be a very large and complicated thing. lots of settings. I think slic3r tries to be friendlier to use.
[07:34:49] <Tectu> ok, thank you
[07:39:56] <Tectu> awallin_, are the results from a real reprap generally better than from an EMCRepStrap?
[07:41:09] <awallin_> I don't know. I would think with the right g-code and settings the EMC/LinuxCNC control would be as good or better than the arduino based controllers used on makerbot etc
[07:42:04] <awallin_> some of the arduino hacks are quite naive (i.e. trajectory without acceleration ramps etc)
[07:43:42] <Tectu> ok
[07:43:49] <DJ9DJ> hi Tectu!
[07:43:53] <Tectu> hello DJ9DJ
[07:44:00] <Tectu> _DJ_? ;-)
[07:44:15] <DJ9DJ> indeed :D
[07:44:22] <Tectu> good to see you, sir ;)
[07:44:30] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[07:45:04] <Tectu> btw, i installed the EMC liveCD on my harddrive a few weeks ago. I decided to make the updates today. When I start EMC now, i get errors about the realtime delay things. Did i break something with the updates? There were no linux kernel related updates
[07:45:43] <DJ9DJ> hmm, i am also doing every update... no problems yet
[07:46:22] <Tectu> I guess i can also install things like CAD programms, skeinforce etc. on the EMC image, without breaking something, right?h
[07:47:31] <DJ9DJ> i would think so :)
[08:12:38] <mazafaka> On lathe, g1 x-something z90 will make a move of a support happening while axis Z rotates at the same time?
[08:14:41] <awallin_> mazafaka: g1 should produce moves that start and end at the same time.
[08:14:58] <mazafaka> ok
[08:16:25] <mazafaka> I milled on lathe and realised it makes such a move.
[08:17:50] <mazafaka> 'CNC programming handbook' generally repeats the basic stuff you need to understand to create the detail and also introduces the G-code, or does it have something else? Did you read this book?
[08:18:08] <awallin_> by peter smid?
[08:18:12] <mazafaka> yes
[08:18:30] <awallin_> it has the basics. workpiece offset, tool offset, etc.
[08:18:42] <awallin_> nothing 3D or CAM
[08:18:53] <mazafaka> I look into set of some CNC-related books in my computer and want to omit many of them.
[08:19:21] <mazafaka> Yeah, I can ask my coworker about it.
[08:19:48] <mazafaka> Is it true inserts have information on chip load and cutting speeds on their pack?
[08:22:47] <awallin_> I would try the phone-book size catalog instead (or pdf online)
[09:09:14] <archivist> never seen much more than part numbers on a pack, note part number encodes some detail in some cases
[10:46:21] <mrsun> must be next to impossible to "tram" a router cnc machine ...
[10:46:37] <mrsun> such huge tables, made of steel or alu .. bends and twists everywhere
[10:48:45] <awallin_> 4 or 5 digits of precision is a challenge on any size machine I would think...
[10:49:31] <bill20r3> Doesanyone know if 4th-axis is in the roadmap for pycam?
[10:50:04] <mrsun> awallin_, hell even 1 digit precision should be a challenge on one of those machines =)
[10:50:15] <awallin_> just saying "4-axis" doesn't specify a toolpath-strategy very well
[10:50:45] <awallin_> mrsun: +/-1 mm might be fine on a wood-router with 2x3m table..
[10:51:02] <mrsun> ye i guess =)
[10:51:52] <awallin_> bill20r3: you need to post links to pictures/videos of the kind of toolpath you envision. Some 4-axis things are trivial additions to opencamlib, others not so trivial. I can't speak for pycam.
[10:56:26] <bill20r3> I'm thinking of things like cutting a gear, with the rotary axis's centerline parallel to "X"
[11:02:42] <archivist> bill20r3, trivial to hand code
[11:03:26] <archivist> not so trivial to write cam software as fas as I can see
[11:03:34] <archivist> fas/far
[11:04:02] <bill20r3> would you do it by cam'ing a flat version of a single tooth, then adjusting for the curve, and changing X - > A ?
[11:04:08] <bill20r3> (I hope that makes any sense)
[11:04:30] <archivist> the big problems for gear cutting are touch off and cutter centring on the a axis
[11:04:55] <bill20r3> yy.
[11:05:28] <archivist> did you ever see my escape wheel vid?
[11:07:06] <archivist> bill20r3, also hand coded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adT8Dr5JZ4c
[11:11:02] <archivist> I originally wrote a cam script for straight cut gears but dropped it for hand coded gcode because it made more sense
[11:12:25] <bill20r3> nope.
[11:12:25] <bill20r3> linky?
[11:12:43] <archivist> see above
[11:13:38] <archivist> wow the helical vid has 500k views!
[11:20:57] <archivist> bill20r3, I also wrote a gear generating gcode which needs rackform cutter, also not sure if camable
[11:21:28] <bill20r3> <--- not an actual machinist, googling 'rackform cutter'
[11:22:22] <archivist> bill20r3, its the hobbing process
[11:22:27] <bill20r3> ahh.
[11:22:32] <archivist> ish
[11:23:32] <archivist> but that can be done another way as andypugh did it with gears axes
[11:23:42] <archivist> gears/geared
[11:25:58] <bill20r3> it seems as if "Step1" is always "buy more tooling" :-|
[11:26:41] <archivist> not always, with one offs I make tooling
[11:27:23] <archivist> or as in that verge escape wheel, cheat use a standard tool and re purpose in code
[11:30:16] <archivist> even that slitting saw arbor is home made in a few minutes from materials lying around
[11:44:32] <archivist> bill20r3, I needed to thread mill, tooling is expensive http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage6/p1010245.jpg do it yourself cheap
[11:49:27] * bill20r3 looks.
[11:52:44] <bill20r3> clever. I could probably manage something like that.
[11:53:38] <archivist> that is a lathe insert that I used
[11:56:00] <Loetmichel> yaaaawn... thats endless again. first of the housings milled in one hour.(drillings still pending)... 2 to go. and i have set the mill to F1200 (6mm TC 2 flute bit, 0,2mm depth full cut in AlMg3)...
[11:56:13] <Loetmichel> Waiting...
[11:57:26] <Loetmichel> 18kRPM...
[12:12:48] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the Globe
[12:36:58] <Loetmichel> *gnaaaahh* will taht EVER end? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12882 <- started 16:30, now its 19:30... ant one outside and one complete hoising to go...
[12:37:52] <Loetmichel> ... maybe i should had made only ONE part like my company needed, not 3 for which i had a fitting scrap aluminium .... :(
[13:05:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120207-snow-white-tattoo-5a.jpg
[13:05:35] <bill20r3> creepy
[13:06:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'm not exactly sure what Bambi and Thumper are doing in Snow White though =)
[13:06:56] <bill20r3> watching.. waiting...
[13:07:01] <bill20r3> TO ATTACK!
[13:08:13] <IchGuckLive> hi is there a low cost driver for a dc brush motor with quatra Encoder to drive with step dir on ebay ?
[13:12:16] <IchGuckLive> there are lots of this motors out but i cant find any driver
[13:13:50] <IchGuckLive> based on the voltage amp i see l6203 for a driver chip and pic note AN696 for control
[13:14:13] <IchGuckLive> but there is no ready made thing available to plag and play with
[13:15:46] <IchGuckLive> or for basic info -> are the Servo Motors of a Axis controled in a other way
[15:45:22] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Are you cutting this dry?
[15:58:46] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: more or less
[15:59:29] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Bit of a spray from time to time then?
[15:59:44] <Loetmichel> a bit water/detergent/oil mix pumpsprayed on from time to time
[16:00:09] <FinboySlick> OK
[16:00:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12882
[16:00:26] <Loetmichel> looked like this a few hours ago
[16:00:39] <Loetmichel> now i am done... WAY to late...
[16:01:12] <Loetmichel> my boss cant begin to imagine how much hours i do here after work
[16:01:54] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Hehe, that's how you guys can afford to bail out Grece!
[16:02:08] <Loetmichel> maybe
[16:02:43] <FinboySlick> You glued the part to it?
[16:02:47] <Loetmichel> more like how my boss can afford to hold the company with to few customers
[16:02:51] <Loetmichel> right
[16:03:15] <Loetmichel> cyan acrylate
[16:03:26] <FinboySlick> Cool :)
[16:03:38] <Loetmichel> you only have to worry about temperature
[16:03:58] <Loetmichel> if the workpiece exceeds 120°c the glue will melt ;-)
[16:04:57] <FinboySlick> Might come in handy when it's time to snap the finished part off though.
[16:05:32] <Loetmichel> yes
[16:05:32] <JT-Shop> whew long day at the rubber factory
[16:07:24] <Loetmichel> ... or do it the other way round: cool it with ice spry, then give it a sideways whack with a wooden hammer ;-)
[16:07:28] <Loetmichel> works also
[16:08:21] <Loetmichel> <-bedtime, wife is already callin
[16:19:50] <craynerd> Hello, has anyone wired a 6 wire stepper motor. Could you give me some advice?
[16:20:39] <craynerd> I believe I have to terminate two wires, but not sure which two
[16:24:02] <andypugh> There are two sets of three wires.
[16:24:29] <frysteev> craynerd: i believe in a 6 wire there is 2 wires you dont use, if you are using a 4 wire driver,
[16:24:49] <andypugh> The wires are the two ends and the middle of each of the two separate windings.
[16:24:57] <frysteev> if you were using an 8 wire there is 2 pairs you tie together
[16:25:06] <andypugh> Are you using a bipolar or unipolar driver?
[16:25:19] <andypugh> And do you have a multimeter?
[16:25:40] <andypugh> (You can figure it out without a multimeter)
[16:26:36] <andypugh> If your driver only has A+ A- B+ B- terminals then it is a bipolar one.
[16:29:36] <MattyMatt_> hi all, can I copy a stepconf file from a 8.04 cd install to a 10.04?
[16:30:37] <andypugh> You can, but I don't know that it will work :-)
[16:31:24] <andypugh> The actual config will almost certainly work, and I think that the stepconf format is at least reasonably backwards-compatible.
[16:31:40] <andypugh> craynerd: Are you still there?
[16:31:58] <MattyMatt_> I'll "edit an existing config" that seems like a good compromise :)
[16:32:54] <andypugh> I don't like to go back to stepconf once it is working anyway, I prefer to tweak by hand.
[16:33:12] <andypugh> (I just wish gedit did tab-completion)
[16:34:02] <MattyMatt_> it's just getting the pins in for these 4-axis boards I need
[16:35:07] <MattyMatt_> I've got a dead board to revive, so I want the working config off my mill machine, without 17 return trips between rooms :)
[16:35:29] <MattyMatt_> or I could use pen and paper I guess. hi tech ftw
[16:36:46] <MattyMatt_> even better plan, print the 4-axis manual
[16:37:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:37:52] <MattyMatt_> would setting up a share affect the latency badly, with a grotty nic?
[16:38:13] <andypugh> I have all my machines sharing with each other
[16:38:35] <andypugh> pen and paper is work, take photos of the screen with your phone.
[16:38:36] <MattyMatt_> when I was copying the .iso over my network I was getting 100% cpu with 4MB/s
[16:39:25] <MattyMatt_> my cam is more work than it needs to be :p sometimes it turns on fully when you open the cover
[16:39:53] <MattyMatt_> I opened it up once and it's got a very small sparc chip :)
[16:40:36] <MattyMatt_> but I didn't fancy digging deep enough to clean the lens cover switch
[16:41:14] <MattyMatt_> to many flexi pcbs and shiz
[16:42:51] <andypugh> I took my iPhone apart a bit ago, to fit a new back. It wasn't that bad.
[17:01:06] <skunkworks_> yay - emc and emc-devel don't open in chatzilla anymore
[17:01:25] * skunkworks_ finally figured what he did
[17:17:17] <MattyMatt_> my camera is an olympus. an even stronger stench of boardroom evil coming off the pcb >:)
[17:18:29] <MattyMatt_> I got an error when I tried to jog in the axis test, is that normal for a raw 10.04 cd install with no updates?
[17:22:53] <andypugh> Which error?
[17:23:11] <andypugh> (And did it actually jog?)
[17:23:50] <MattyMatt_> board is still dead afaik, so I wouldn't know that. I'm afraid I didn't note the error
[17:24:17] <MattyMatt_> I'll write it down if it happens again after updates
[17:29:01] <MattyMatt_> will there be a log file somewhere with emc2 errors?
[17:30:30] <andypugh> 'appen
[17:30:47] <andypugh> But possibly not that one.
[17:30:50] <MattyMatt_> on another subject I should make a little debugging board with switches and leds for all the pins
[17:31:17] <MattyMatt_> does stepconf do the axis test itself or does it call emc2?
[17:32:03] <MattyMatt_> the traceback went something like on_jog_button_pressed to something hal_ prefixed
[17:32:47] <MattyMatt_> I'll try and be more specific if it fails again after the updates :)
[17:34:28] <MattyMatt_> I changed the ccfl tube in this laptop, but I haven't got it positioned quite right so I can only use this lappy at nighttime until I have another go
[17:35:09] <MattyMatt_> the old tube had rubber grommets to centre it in its space and I forgot to transfer those
[17:35:47] <MattyMatt_> I'm still quite chuffed with myself that I got it half working tho
[17:35:58] <andypugh> A "Laptop of the Night" ?
[17:36:18] <MattyMatt_> what sweet music it would make, if the ALSA install hadn't failed
[17:36:43] <MattyMatt_> actually I only read that in the log, it made the bootup noise
[17:37:09] <andypugh> I think boot noises are a lot more low-level
[17:37:28] <MattyMatt_> 12GB hdd, no led zep mp3 discography
[17:38:20] <andypugh> MIDI might fit :-)
[17:38:57] <MattyMatt_> kingspec make pcmcia sdd, but they don't put them on ebay
[17:39:13] <MattyMatt_> ssd
[17:39:52] <MattyMatt_> a couple of them at bargain prices would be nice
[17:40:57] <MattyMatt_> old thinkpads are so cheap with their tiny hdd. for the cost of one ssd I can get 3 or 4 mostly working thinkpads
[17:41:12] <andypugh> Beowulf Cluster
[17:41:35] <MattyMatt_> that's the long term plan, put all the ones with no screens into a microserver rack
[17:41:54] <andypugh> I keep seeing them in the skip at work.
[17:42:27] <MattyMatt_> you're not allowed to drag them out?
[17:42:36] <andypugh> Not really.
[17:43:00] <MattyMatt_> they are low rent machines if you don't care about the screens or keyboards
[17:43:08] <MattyMatt_> nice and quiet
[17:43:15] <andypugh> I risk it for really nice stuff, but getting them out through the door might be difficult and hard to explain
[17:44:03] <MattyMatt_> I assume the hdd get hammered before they even go in the skip
[17:45:02] <andypugh> Not that I have noticed.
[17:45:55] <andypugh> There is an industtial rackmount PC in there at the moment with two 16-channel analogue-input cards in it. But it got buried under a load of scrap wiring looms.
[17:46:43] <andypugh> Anyway, sleep.
[19:28:06] <morfic> pcw_home: what do you need to determine firmware needs for a particular linuxcnc (2.5) setup with a 5I22, 2x 7i33, 7i44 (with 2 each 7i70 & 7i71)?
[20:09:27] <Thetawaves> is linuxCNC participating in google summer of code?
[20:13:47] <pcw_home> That would be a SVSS8_8
[20:13:49] <pcw_home> which would need to be made
[20:13:50] <pcw_home> There is a SVSS6_8 for a 7I48 and a 7I44
[20:15:38] <morfic> pcw_home: for this, do you need to know if we use analog voltage as speed ref for the servo vs pwm? (in short how can we provide you with the most complete information for you to be able to work on such hardware combination?)
[20:20:47] <pcw_home> I does matter because if you use analog you need to match one of our analog out daughtercards
[20:20:49] <pcw_home> but if you use PWM its likely that you want a buffered or perhaps differential output daughtercard to wire to
[20:20:51] <pcw_home> the PWM inputs of your drives
[20:21:18] <morfic> pcw_home: it is analog
[20:23:21] <pcw_home> OK so SVSS8_8 (this will fit in a 5I23)
[20:23:33] <morfic> <pcw_home> I does matter because if you use analog you need to match one of our analog out daughtercards <-- this sounds like you are refering to cards other than the already purchased 7i33? or are you referring to a different process when creating the firmware?
[20:24:50] <morfic> pcw_home: you said 5I23 as a minimum requirement/reference?
[20:25:53] <pcw_home> just saying the a SVSS8 config (8 servo channels + 8 sserial channels) will fit in a 5i23
[20:26:33] <pcw_home> (a 5I22 is not required)
[20:27:24] <morfic> we have the 5i@@ to have a 4th unused header on it for later "oh, let's add [...]" safety
[20:27:43] <morfic> we have the 5i22 to have a 4th unused header on it for later "oh, let's add [...]" safety
[20:29:11] <pcw_home> OK, but 8 sserial channels is a lot as well
[20:30:20] <morfic> pcw_home: we have unused servo channels and free IO, i can't think of much our boss could throw at us that we couldn't still fit in this combination
[20:31:32] <morfic> SVSS6_8 is 6 servo channels and 8 sserial channels?
[20:31:53] <pcw_home> you can double your I/O with more remotes, the only thing a 5I22 would give you is more encoders or some other high speed I/O
[20:32:54] <pcw_home> PIN_SVSS6_8 is for 6 servo channels via a 7I48 daughtercard
[20:33:45] <morfic> got it
[20:36:22] <pcw_home> its not much more than 10 mins work to cobble together/compile a config from exiting configs
[20:36:24] <pcw_home> (just per connector cut/paste from existing pinout files to a new one)
[20:37:21] <morfic> that sounds promising
[20:38:06] <morfic> question is how backlogged you are to have those 10 minutes?
[20:39:25] <morfic> pcw_home: do you require any other information? about the encoders or anything else?
[20:41:17] <pcw_home> no thats about all (I might make a SVSS12_8 config just so all the pins are occupied since the FPGA is big enough fore any kind of HM2 config)
[20:43:09] <morfic> i have one more question :)
[20:43:50] <morfic> if a 7i33 say burns up, we don't need to change firmware if we just limit the configuration to fewer servos?
[20:49:31] <morfic> pcw_home: trying to make sure the question is rhetorical (based on SVSS12_8 working for us, i think it is)
[20:51:10] <pcw_home> No you enable channels from 0 to max in the .ini file so extra channels dont hurt
[20:53:15] <morfic> i'll be honest, i hit reply when i should have hit reply all, so my boss put on his spurs and is "back in the saddle", the topic firmware became hot since Dave obviously wouldn't want to drive down here and we have no firmware to run our hardware, and if you think i have a crude grasp of firmware.....not sure how to finish this sentence :/
[20:54:45] <morfic> i think i exchanged more emails with my boss over the weekend than all last year combined
[20:56:59] <morfic> pcw_home: thank you for eliminating some of my own doubts tonight
[21:07:01] <pcw_home> I cam make up 5I22 SV12_8 tommorow if you like
[21:20:30] <morfic> pcw_home: you will get an email officially requesting it from the guy who will likely take over from me.
[21:21:05] <morfic> pcw_home: thank you in advance
[23:11:02] <s-H> started cuts today using emc.
[23:11:10] <s-H> very nice indeed.