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[00:43:09] <Jymmm> Is there some method to "reverse engineer" actually get geometry of an object for drawing in CAD? I'm trying to make a template for GI Dog Tags and can't figure out how to determine the arc on the ends...
https://www.whitbypandemonium.co.uk/images/Dogtags-Black.jpg
[00:49:11] <Tom_itx> get a set of radius gauges
[00:49:41] <Jymmm> There's no old timer's trick/method?
[00:50:01] <Tom_itx> eyeball it
[00:50:11] <Tom_itx> then compare the printout with the part
[00:50:23] <Jymmm> printout?
[00:50:44] <Tom_itx> the 1:1 print you will make from your cad drawing
[00:51:06] <Jymmm> Ha, print, that's funny =)
[00:51:47] <Jymmm> I think I might have found a way though.
[00:52:14] <Tom_itx> request an engineering drawing from your tag supplier
[00:52:47] <Jymmm> Align the part with a 6" steel rule, then take a photo. That should give me actual scale, then using a drawing program to reproduce the arc.
[00:53:19] <Jymmm> useing the photo as the base layer, then redraw the arc on the next layer.
[00:53:33] <Jymmm> kinda like digital tracing
[00:54:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Well, sometimes there is no vendor you just want to replicate somethng at random
[00:55:16] <Jymmm> maybe you cracked the case on your fancy blah and you want to fix/recreate it.
[00:58:41] <psha> Jymmm: photo -> svg?
[00:59:09] <psha> via tracing
[00:59:10] <Jymmm> psha: NEVER svg, but other vector fomat
[00:59:18] <Jymmm> format
[00:59:33] <psha> at least you may make svg in a couple of clicks in inkscape
[00:59:45] <psha> and then get vector format of your choice
[00:59:55] <Jymmm> psha: No, NEVER SVG. ever ever
[01:00:06] <psha> heh, then you are on your own :-P
[01:00:14] <psha> btw why not?
[01:00:17] <psha> what's bad with svg?
[01:00:31] <psha> you may get gcode from it in a simple way :)
[01:01:08] <Jymmm> psha: The SVG specs only call for relative values, never absolute, plus there are flaws in the specs that haven't been fixed in years and likely never will
[01:01:32] <psha> and what?
[01:01:45] <Jymmm> what didn't you understand?
[01:01:57] <psha> i did not understand what's bad in 'plus there are flaws in the specs that haven't been fixed in years and likely never will
[01:02:11] <psha> you may say it for every spec
[01:02:28] <Jymmm> The inksape developers told me
[01:03:05] <Jymmm> Tafter I kept bugging them about a bug I found years ago
[01:03:08] <Jymmm> after
[01:03:37] <psha> probably you may tell me about better vector format?
[01:03:57] <Jymmm> Almost any other than SVG.
[01:04:00] <psha> that is supported at least in more then 1 (one) product?
[01:04:38] <psha> there is one problem with svg that i may see - it allows _very_ complex images
[01:04:42] <psha> that's real problem
[01:04:51] <psha> but if you use subset of svg - you won't encouter it
[01:04:56] <Jymmm> there are hundreds of vector formats to choose from.
[01:05:03] <psha> gimme one plz
[01:05:05] <Jymmm> pick one you like
[01:05:40] <psha> i've already picked one for my needs - svg :)
[01:05:56] <psha> that's supported and rich enough for me
[01:06:05] <Jymmm> DXF
[01:06:11] <Jymmm> have at it!
[01:06:17] <psha> dxf?
[01:06:37] <psha> and what progs may i use to work with it?
[01:06:56] <Jymmm> do I look like google to you?
[01:06:58] <psha> converting dxf to anything is pain in the ass
[01:07:04] <psha> i've tried already
[01:07:08] <psha> thanks
[01:08:05] <Jymmm> Geeze man, you're asking me what you prefer, yu have to find that out for yourself.
[01:08:48] <psha> heh, all i need is format that don't need lot of expensive products to work with
[01:46:13] <mazafaka1> inkscape can save in dxf
[04:29:07] <Loetmichel> nornin'
[04:31:40] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[04:33:52] <Loetmichel> hmm... anyone has a Athlon XP 2600+ as a CNC cpmputer and can tell me if a new Graphics card will get the jitter down to reasonable values?
[04:35:36] <Loetmichel> atm i have something about 76000/40000 with heavy load and an old Matrox MGA... (the TNT2 laying around has a fault, and the ATI x1650 pro isnt supported :-(
[04:37:10] <archivist> depends what is causing the jitter, there are other causes, heat control by stopping the processor is a nasty one
[04:38:46] <Loetmichel> archivist: cpu is cool as a athlon xp ever gets. (about 40°C)
[04:39:15] <Loetmichel> and the jitter goes p as soon as opengl os used
[04:39:31] <Loetmichel> idle i have a jitter of 6000/3000
[04:40:18] <archivist> try open source opengl driver
[04:40:44] <Loetmichel> ahem: the matrox has no 3d capability
[04:41:00] <Loetmichel> so opengl-> software
[04:41:15] <archivist> matrox card worksforme
[04:41:38] <Loetmichel> thats why i hoped if i get a 3d card the jitter will stay low
[04:42:22] <archivist> they often have unfriendly interrupts causing latency
[04:43:37] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[04:44:17] <Loetmichel> interesting fact: the ati x1650 pro i have laying around is about 10 times SLOWER than the matrox.
[04:45:04] <Loetmichel> cause the RadeonHD/fglrx driver will not work with the 2.6.32 kernel, they need 2.5.36 at least :-(
[04:45:57] <Loetmichel> thete is a screen update delay of about a SECOND ... absolute unuseable
[04:46:03] <Loetmichel> there
[04:52:16] <andypugh> 6000 _is_ low!
[04:52:34] <archivist> 20000 is usable
[04:53:10] <Loetmichel> [11:26] <Loetmichel> atm i have something about 76000/40000 with heavy load and an old Matrox MGA... (the TNT2 laying around has a fault, and the ATI x1650 pro isnt supported :-(
[04:53:22] <Loetmichel> 600/3000 is idle
[04:53:36] <Loetmichel> as soon as i do some 3d it gets up
[04:53:47] <Loetmichel> or playing som flash video ;-)
[04:56:14] <Loetmichel> my own CNC has a bit better jiter:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12334
[04:56:36] <andypugh> 76,000 is still OK with hardware solutions, but won't work for sofware stepping.
[04:57:01] <archivist> onboard video or a cheap card stealing the memory is another nono
[04:57:10] <Loetmichel> ... but it has a MUCH better cpu, and being a c2d it can compensate for the onboardgraphics
[04:57:46] <archivist> "c2d it can compensate for the onboardgraphics" er what
[04:57:59] <Loetmichel> it has 2 cores , fast ones
[04:58:21] <Loetmichel> so it can do the 3d on one core in software as the other one keeps the jitter low ;-)
[04:58:24] <archivist> no that has little to do with stealing memory time
[04:58:58] <andypugh> However, I don't think it is worth messing about, buy a D525MW board and use the onboard video. At €80 it is cheaper than buying a graphics card.
http://www.amazon.de/dp/B0041RSC94/ref=asc_df_B0041RSC946636772?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&tag=googledeprodu-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22494&creativeASIN=B0041RSC94
[04:59:07] <archivist> one memory bus, if stolen by video display its gone during that time
[04:59:07] <Loetmichel> ahm you mean: bus time?
[05:00:22] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i wont. i wiill donate this machine to the hackerspace, so the get hardware i have here, but i am not willing to invest more than time.
[05:00:51] <Loetmichel> s/the/they
[05:03:22] <Loetmichel> hmmm, lets seee, OONE of the 11 PCs standing around here SHOULD have a decent graphics board i can cannibalize...
[05:03:59] <Loetmichel> but for thatr i have to get out of the bathtub ;-)
[05:04:59] <andypugh> pass the mind-bleach!
[05:05:22] <Loetmichel> harhar
[05:07:11] * Loetmichel has a BAD headache. and has triede to "sweat " it away. slowly boiling in here... and that on my birthday :-(
[05:07:45] <archivist> dehydrated, get out and drink water!
[05:09:50] <Loetmichel> more like an inflammation of the upper jaw bone
[05:09:52] <andypugh> Is it possible that you spent last night celebrating your birthday, and that is the cause?
[05:09:58] <Loetmichel> no
[05:10:12] <archivist> lies
[05:10:39] <Loetmichel> i dont drink...
[05:10:47] <Loetmichel> ... since about 15 jears
[05:11:25] <Loetmichel> not more than about one or two beers oce a month or so
[05:11:41] <Loetmichel> and yesterday i didnt celebrate
[05:11:56] <Loetmichel> its 43, so no reason to
[05:13:21] <andypugh> You have a carbon-monoxide monitor?
[05:25:02] <Loetmichel> why should i, having no burning substances inmy appartment?
[05:26:00] <Loetmichel> (the natural gas heater sints in the basementand has noc connection to my appartment
[05:26:05] <Loetmichel> sits
[05:32:42] <yoyo_> hi
[05:35:45] <yoyo_> where can i find ngc fils for touch probe center of circle / corners and so one ?
[05:36:15] <yoyo_> or it is mystery ?
[05:43:59] <andypugh> yoyo_: Give me a moment..
[05:44:26] <yoyo_> or how can I get a present X Y Z value in gcode
[05:45:37] <andypugh> That depends on the LinuxCNC version you are using.
[05:46:18] <andypugh> (It used to be a bit difficult in 2.3, but has got easier)
[05:48:33] <andypugh> yoyo_: You should find probe-hole.ngc in the emc2/nc_files/sample directory
[05:49:30] <yoyo_> ok
[05:53:36] <andypugh> Which version are you using? To get XYZ in 2.4 I have found the easiest way is to use a G92 then an immediate G92.1 and read the #5211, #5212, #5213 parameters, but in 2.5 they are available in #5420 onwards all the time.
[05:54:05] <andypugh> And in 2.6 as #<_x> #<_y> etc
[06:11:01] <yoyo_> haha ! first touch hole DONE!
[06:57:21] <yoyo_> wonderful. how to scan touching surface ?
[06:58:38] <jthornton> iirc there is a sample file to do this
[07:02:42] <Jymmm> Step 1) Set rapids to 24,000 IPS.
[07:02:53] <Jymmm> Step 2) Hit START
[07:03:10] <Jymmm> Step 3) Get new probe.
[07:04:12] <andypugh> yoyo_: In the same sample directory, have a look at gridprobe
[07:07:23] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/ResQMe-Keychain-Version-Original-LifeHammer/dp/B000IDYKNC
[08:30:34] <vin321> testing my blue chinease bord no lost steps on z that i can tell its been going up & down a hour
[08:31:27] <archivist> add some weight
[08:32:50] <archivist> I tested my thing with added weights but in real life found a few problems later, gib strips too tight and lack of oil
[08:38:05] <vin321> ty ill try that
[08:39:41] <vin321> still looks good
[08:40:23] <vin321> its got 2 moters on ot there not lite
[08:42:46] <vin321> all iv done to the bord is bypass the optocouplers
[08:43:14] <vin321> was the first fix i could do with out parts
[08:43:39] <vin321> seems it fixed all my issuse
[08:43:54] <vin321> hohe so any way
[08:44:02] <vin321> hope*
[08:48:36] <mazafaka> jthornton: What about the coal? Does it only burns longer or does it produce more heat?
[09:00:29] <JT-Shop> I'm no expert but coal will burn hotter than wood
[09:02:13] <cpresser> JT-Shop: depends on the type of coal. and the amount on the oxygen available
[09:03:32] <mazafaka> So, a little bit less amount of coal will give the same amount of heat. But why it doesn't burn so good when I open the door of the stove? I will have to investigate with it...
[09:03:34] <cpresser> in some cases charcoal is superior to mineral coal.
[09:04:12] <cpresser> what kind of stove are you using, mazafaka?
[09:04:33] <mazafaka> our power plant works on extremely bad coal mixed with soil and rocks. Normal coal is sent abroad by the corporation.
[09:04:50] <cpresser> if mineral coal is burning to hot, it produces CO instead of CO2, which makes the complete thing less efficient
[09:04:55] <mazafaka> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilyagalkin
[09:05:34] <mazafaka> particularly
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilyagalkin/6901073227/in/photostream
[09:06:57] <cpresser> how much space do you intend to heat with that? and which temperature gradient?
[09:07:07] <mazafaka> there are various regimes of burning of wood and coal. The efficients are with transparent fumes if I understand correctly.
[09:07:45] <cpresser> for example, if antracite coal is burning, you wont see a real flame. it just glows a little
[09:07:58] <mazafaka> -10 down to -40 Celsius at the street, and the garage is 3.6 x 5.6 x 2.0
[09:08:42] <mazafaka> i think I need to seal a bit garage doors later when I will clean and weld it and paint it.
[09:08:47] <cpresser> even with decent isolation, that will require a lot of energy.
[09:10:18] <cpresser> based on my experience (my shop als has no isolation) you will need about 4kW of power in order to heat it up
[09:10:46] <cpresser> fortunately the weather is much warmer now in germay :)
[09:11:25] <yoyo_> can I emulate a probe in in simulator ?
[09:13:18] <cpresser> that is how 'real' stove works:
http://www.herrmann-kaminkehrer.de/bilder_by/org/kaminofenfunktionsschnittbild.jpg
[09:13:35] <mazafaka> cpresser: it's also warm here. -10 Celsius instead of -39...-42 Celsius with wind as usual.
[09:14:33] <cpresser> in order to harvest the energy, you need to make sure not to blast it all out with a hot exhaust
[09:15:32] <mazafaka> My stove is hot starting from the concrete floor. It heats up to +20 Celsius just when all the logs has started to really give out the heat. (About 15 minutes after starting.)
[09:15:46] <cpresser> our home here runs on antracite-coal. 45kW boiler. the exhaust temperature is <200 Celsius
[09:15:50] <mazafaka> yes, I think the exhaust is too hot.
[09:18:42] <mazafaka> And I have to open the door of the stove to get the heat. It's made of stainless steel.
[09:23:58] <mazafaka> if the coal I use is a little bit bad, I think I can mix it with logs when I am starting to use the stove.
[09:52:54] <mazafaka__> cpresser: actually, garage is isolated pretty nicely, doors are thermally isolated and there's a cellophane thingie:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilyagalkin/6877890841/in/photostream
[09:56:43] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: so the 7i76 takes 8-32v in at pin 5 VIN and converts that to 5v?
[09:59:27] <pcw_home> on the 7I76 TB1 is the isolated field power supply it takes 8-32 VDC aond converts to isolated 3.3V logic power for the remote I/O processor
[10:00:28] <pcw_home> there is no connection with TB1 to 5V anywhere
[10:02:52] <yoyo_> mazafaka__: that bikes are yours ?
[10:02:53] <JT-Shop> ok, I was confused by the Signal names then
[10:03:36] <pcw_home> normally you would tie VIN to field power via W1 (Left) so you only need to supply field power
[10:03:42] <yoyo_> mazafaka__: those
[10:04:15] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
[10:04:41] <pcw_home> filed power goes to the output switches, VIN powers a switching regulator for the remote I/O processor
[10:04:52] <mazafaka__> yeah. that Jupiter 5 which is lowered on the photos, now is very tall. It's rear shock absorbers lengthened by 150 mm (6 inches). And it only waits for the additional thingies which will guide the chain over the frame and swing arm
[10:04:52] <pcw_home> s/filed/field/
[10:05:55] <yoyo_> mazafaka__: nice :) I aslo have bike. different but
http://www.yoyo.ghost.pl/fb/?&id=1745&subPage=detale
[10:08:05] <mazafaka__> yoyo_: ha, nice. I would prefer one type of bike - enduro like on the photo. Motocross bike has shortened motor hours. But I can afford this one of the colour of steel (150 USD before I have restored it).
[10:09:27] <pcw_home> looks kind of like a 1970s Yamaha
[10:09:46] <yoyo_> mazafaka__: 20 moto hours and repair of piston / replacement :P
[10:09:53] <mazafaka__> This Jupiter 5 is for friend. He uses my garage. I will have bought a Ural motorcycle soon, and a SUV like this:
http://avto-russia.ru/autos/uaz/photo/uaz_31512_5.jpg
[10:10:40] <mazafaka__> its parameters:
http://avto-russia.ru/autos/uaz/uaz_315123.html
[10:13:12] <mazafaka__> yoyo_: I plan to mount front and rear end from MotoX motorcycle, from some Kawasaki KLX maybe of 1993.
[10:14:37] <yoyo_> mazafaka__: grate thing is a electric conversion not parts swapping.
[10:15:13] <yoyo_> I would love to have an electric motorbicke
[10:15:30] <mazafaka__> yeah, but I can not create a controller.
[10:15:47] <yoyo_> not enough geld
[10:16:11] <yoyo_> by one mazafaka__
[10:16:24] <mazafaka__> or order any electric motor.
[10:17:36] <mazafaka__> no, I do not have money for it. I need to buy a car.
[10:18:14] <mazafaka__> But I also hate movable stuff like engines
[10:19:53] <mazafaka__> friction and pressure produces very toxic oil and water. CO2 is a measure to calculate the bad effect, but who will recycle the oil and antifreeze - at least here in Russia?
[10:24:55] <andypugh> yoyo_: I have one of these in the shed:
http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/NERACAR_MODEL_B.jpg
[10:29:39] <mazafaka__> andypugh: no, you don't :) !
[10:30:13] <mazafaka__> And what is 'shed' ? Is it something like the bushes?
[10:31:23] <mazafaka__> (Or is it something like mustaches, and you actually have an 'item of food' in it and it remind you of a motorcycle on the photo?)
[10:31:52] <mazafaka__> macaronis on mustaches then, heh
[10:35:33] <mazafaka__> Oh, hey guys, my mountain bicycle has mountains on it after a ride in dirt!
[10:36:38] <mazafaka__> Do you believe it or not, the mountains like they are shown on the photos from the space!
[10:37:54] <mazafaka__> And same does the boots :) Ha-ha
[11:13:56] <yoyo_> adverb :) my touch sensor ready :) and working
http://www.yoyo.ghost.pl/fb/?&id=1812&tag=touch%20sensor&subPage=detale
[11:23:59] <skunkworks_> neat - did you decide against the ball bearings?
[11:34:17] <JT-5i25> on my 5i25/7i76 config when I open up HAL Configuration I only see 34 gpio's should I see 48?
[11:35:19] <JT-5i25> I also only see 3 stepgen's
[11:35:29] <skunkworks_> I think gromit noticed that some pins are out of order in the hal config page... Are they there just not where you think they should be?
[11:36:08] <JT-5i25> under Pins > hm2_5i25 > gpio I only see the 34 pins
[11:36:48] <JT-5i25> under Pins > hm2_5i25 > stepgen I only see 3 stepgens 0, 1, and 2
[11:37:19] <skunkworks_> odd
[11:37:56] * JT-5i25 goes to look at the config again
[11:39:47] <JT-5i25> well I have num_stepgens=3 in my config
[11:39:54] <skunkworks_> heh
[11:40:18] <JT-5i25> wonder if that is borked for this
[11:41:42] <JT-5i25> hmm now I have 5 stepgens
[11:43:02] <JT-5i25> at some point in the past I thought I understood the I/O for the 5i25/7i76 but have slept since then :/
[11:43:16] <skunkworks_> how about the gpio?
[11:44:12] <JT-5i25> still 34 and no clue which one is connected to the terminals on the 7i76
[11:45:03] <pcw_home> do you have the field power on? (right yellow LED)
[11:45:24] <JT-5i25> yes
[11:45:40] <JT-5i25> yellow led next to power terminal block is on
[11:46:41] <pcw_home> are both yellow LEDS on?
[11:46:51] <JT-5i25> yes
[11:47:54] <pcw_home> ok so you should some pins like 5I25.0.7i76.input.00
[11:49:23] <JT-5i25> no pins like that are under Pins > hm2_5i25
[11:50:08] <pcw_home> whats your configuration line?
[11:51:29] <JT-5i25> CONFIG = "num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=0 num_3pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=5"
[11:51:57] <JT-5i25> loadrt [HOSTMOT2](DRIVER) config=[HOSTMOT2](CONFIG)
[11:52:22] <pcw_home> that seems really wrong
[11:54:09] <JT-5i25> w1 is right and w2 is left
[11:54:14] <andypugh> The 5i25 itself can only have 25 gpios?
[11:54:48] <andypugh> The terminals on the 7i76 should be under 7i76.0.digin-NN
[11:55:53] <JT-5i25> I don't see 7i76 anywhere, should it be under Pins or hm2_5i25?
[11:56:22] <andypugh> hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.... I think
[11:57:21] <andypugh> But you do need field power I think, or it doesn't admit to existing.
[11:57:34] <JT-5i25> maybe I have W1 wrong
[11:57:50] <pcw_home> w1 should be in the left (default) position normally (and then VIN get field power)
[11:58:31] <JT-5i25> I have that backwards
[11:58:33] <JT-5i25> brb
[11:59:14] <pcw_home> otherwise you need to power both VIN and VFIELD
[12:00:41] * JT-5i25 smacks forehead on table a few times...
[12:04:41] <syyl_> doesnt that hurt?
[12:04:49] <JT-5i25> yea
[12:08:35] <Loetmichel> syyl_: i think it should!
[12:18:48] <JT-5i25> either I've borked the I/O or I'm an idiot or it don't like 12v field power, I'm sure at least one will apply
[12:24:07] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the Globe
[12:26:13] <pcw_home> 12V should be OK
[12:26:15] <pcw_home> I think you need a sserial_port_0 = "00XXXXXX" line in your config
[12:26:39] <JT-5i25> ok, let me try that
[12:27:17] <pcw_home> not sure if the 3pwm stuff causes trouble (since theres no such module)
[12:28:31] <JT-5i25> I had CONFIG="sserial_mode0=00000000" from a while back but that gave an error when I tried it a while ago... I see the name is new now
[12:29:18] <JT-5i25> this is a good sign, Axis started up
[12:30:00] * skunkworks_ loves these troubleshooting sessions..
[12:32:18] <IchGuckLive> what is the goal you are working on ß
[12:37:40] <JT-5i25> still no I/O... at least I've gotten an axis to move :)
[12:39:20] <skunkworks_> so the daughter board seems to be comunicating?
[12:40:58] <JT-5i25> from what I can tell if it don't yack back you don't even see the pins so yes it seems to be communicating well
[12:41:21] <pcw_home> I/O should just require >10V on field I/O and VIN
[12:41:23] <pcw_home> 5V on main card
[12:41:25] <pcw_home> sserial mode set line modparam
[12:41:27] <pcw_home> cay you post dmesg?
[12:41:53] <pcw_home> can
[12:42:14] <JT-5i25> dmesg after saying "sserial mode set line modparam"
[12:42:19] <JT-5i25> ?
[12:42:52] <pcw_home> just the startup and pin list portion of dmesg
[12:43:04] <JT-5i25> crap, I assume you have to save the ini file for it to work
[12:43:16] <IchGuckLive> is it on hostmot2 config ?
[12:43:33] <pcw_home> usually the case...
[12:43:56] <JT-5i25> this crashed the load sserial_port_0 = "00XXXXXX"
[12:43:56] <pcw_home> Yes HostMot2
[12:45:08] <JT-5i25> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/emc2/hm2_pci.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
[12:46:05] <pcw_home> the sserial port stuff is just in the modparam section
[12:46:07] <pcw_home> CONFIG = "num_encoders=1 num_stepgens=5 sserial_port_0 = 00XXXXXX"
[12:47:14] <JT-5i25> I get invalid parameters again with that
[12:48:53] <JT-5i25> it seems to like this version CONFIG = "sserial_port_0=00000000"
[12:48:53] <pcw_home> man hostmot2 should have the correct syntax
[12:49:52] <JT-5i25> and an input test worked
[12:49:57] <JT-5i25> now for an output
[12:50:45] <JT-5i25> and the output works
[12:50:51] <JT-5i25> THANKS for helping
[12:51:36] <pcw_home> I think theres a bug in the sserial driver if you do not specify the mode line
[12:52:03] <IchGuckLive> loadrt hm2_pci config="firmware=hm2/5i20/SVST8_4.BIT num_encoders=3 num_pwmgens=3 num_stepgens=3,firmware=hm2/5i23/SVSS8_8.BIT sserial_port_0=0000 num_encoders=4"
[12:52:51] <JT-5i25> for the 5i25/7i76 that should be all you need in your config correct?
[12:53:30] <IchGuckLive> The 5i25 comes pre-programmed
[12:53:54] <IchGuckLive> no "firmware=" string should be used
[12:55:22] <pcw_home> Yes thats all but i would prefer a more explicit definition like the
[12:55:24] <pcw_home> CONFIG = "num_encoders=1 num_stepgens=5 sserial_port_0 = 0x"
[12:55:49] <pcw_home> Yes no firmware line as its pre-programmed
[12:58:20] <pcw_home> (it has the PCI probing stuff)
[12:58:22] <pcw_home> sserial_port_0 = 0XXX is actually correct for 7I76x2 config (as it has 4 sserial channels)
[12:59:01] <JT-5i25> let me try that
[12:59:08] <pcw_home> oops wrong window
[13:01:48] <JT-5i25> it likes sserial_port_0 = 0XXX
[13:02:56] <IchGuckLive> this enabels serial 0 and frees all the other opns
[13:03:06] <IchGuckLive> pins
[13:03:18] <JT-5i25> it likes CONFIG = "num_encoders=1 num_stepgens=5 sserial_port_0=0XXX"
[13:03:33] <JT-5i25> but does not like CONFIG = "num_encoders=1 num_stepgens=5 sserial_port_0 = 0XXX" not the spaces
[13:03:38] <JT-5i25> note
[13:03:47] <IchGuckLive> do you need more then 1 serial ?
[13:04:59] <pcw_home> not for one 7I76 (but the 7I76 has one RS-422 expansion for one more if desired)
[13:06:18] <JT-5i25> two axes up and going :)
[13:06:37] <IchGuckLive> JT-5i25: what motors in use
[13:06:55] <IchGuckLive> stepper with encoder
[13:07:03] <JT-5i25> automationdirect steppers
[13:10:50] <IchGuckLive> nice prices
[13:12:16] <IchGuckLive> TRIPLE STACK what does this mean on a stepper ?
[13:14:25] <andypugh> It means it is longer and heavier. But should have more torque.
[13:15:08] * JT-5i25 thinks a nap as a reward for getting this far today is in order now :)
[13:33:31] <gene77> lo guys
[13:33:56] <pcw_home> andypugh: there may still be a bug in the sserial driver if the modparam line is missing (JT-5i25s I/O should have worked without needing the mode line)
[13:34:08] <IchGuckLive> by Gn8
[13:34:48] <andypugh> I thought I had fixed that.
[13:34:54] <gene77> How do I reformat a usb key to messydos so I can use it to hold a bios up date? Apparently a partition table isn't enough
[13:35:22] <pcw_home> maybe, not sure what version/date JT-5i25 has
[13:38:55] <andypugh> gene77: If you google, there is a utility from HP that does it.
[13:39:48] <andypugh> Though I am nit sure that is any good without Windows
[13:40:48] <andypugh> gene77:
http://www.bootdisk.com/pendrive.htm
[13:44:30] <gene77> likely not. NFI if it will work, but as root, I was able to use mc to put the .EXE on the key, now to reboot & see if a F7 will find it... Thanks Andy
[14:15:35] <gene77> well, that was a miserable failure, the bios can't see an 8gb kingston traveler with the files on it, and I burned a cd which it can't see, but does see the drive
[14:15:42] <gene77> Next?
[14:17:08] <gene77> dmesg is full of illegal mode for this track messages, presumably from the optical drive.
[14:21:09] <gene77> I guess go waste another cd. What filesystem do I choose when doing the burn?
[14:22:13] <gene77> or is there some magic potion that will make it see the usb key and use it for the bios update (f7) function?
[14:22:56] <pcw_home> http://www.linuxinsight.com/how-to-flash-motherboard-bios-from-linux-no-dos-windows-no-floppy-drive.html might work, who knows...
[14:23:12] <pcw_home> (for CD)
[14:34:52] <DJ9DJ> good evening
[14:38:34] <micges> hi
[14:51:55] <mrsun> gaah
[14:52:01] <mrsun> i cant get stuff any good :(
[14:55:30] <mrsun> hmm, what is the signals a vfd needs to run efficiently, frequency ref, start (start cw/start ccw) ? :)
[14:55:36] <mrsun> from linuxcnc that is
[14:55:42] <mrsun> and return the actual rpm of the spindle
[14:55:50] <mrsun> (tachometer or similiar at the spindle)
[14:57:49] <mrsun> e-fault maybe
[15:03:34] <JT-5i25> pcw_home: I'm running an installed version from a deb
[15:11:44] <pcw_home> Do you know the build date? if no modules are mentioned in the config line everything should be enabled (and work)
[15:11:45] <pcw_home> but ther was a bug at one time that caused the mode to be set wrong if not specifically set in the mod-param line
[15:13:25] <pcw_home> (remote sserial device mode which should default to 0)
[15:15:35] <skunkworks_> I was reading the sserial section - what do the mode do? 1-9?
[15:15:44] <skunkworks_> 0-9
[15:17:53] <JT-5i25> 2011-09-22 Chris Radek 2.5.0-pre2 test release v2.5.0-pre2
[15:19:30] <pcw_home> Modes choose different remote device data
[15:20:45] <skunkworks_> so - mode 0 maybe i/o - mode 1 might be a h-bridge servo drive...?
[15:21:28] <pcw_home> for example the 7I76 has a analog input option (4 channels of 8 bit data) you may or may not want this data (and it costs 16 usec of transfer time)
[15:23:57] <pcw_home> 7I69 has a 48 bit I/O mode and a 24 out/24 in mode (selected by mode as well)
[15:23:59] <pcw_home> 48 bit I/O has 96 bits transferred every cycle but 24/24 only has 48 so 24 usec faster
[15:24:00] <pcw_home> (not that much of this matters unless you are running a >5 KHz servo thread)
[15:24:51] <pcw_home> bbl
[15:30:34] <andypugh> That bug seems to be fixed in the version I have.
[15:33:41] <JT-5i25> andypugh: are you running a RIP or an installed version?
[15:33:41] <pcw_home> it will only show up with 7I69/70/71/76/77
[15:34:07] <andypugh> It's a RIP from a pull earlier in the week, but 2.5 not 2.6
[15:34:08] <JT-5i25> pcw_home: have the 7i77's started shipping?
[15:34:25] <pcw_home> Yes yours shipped last week some time
[15:34:32] <JT-5i25> Cool!
[15:34:38] <andypugh> I just tested with a 5i23 and 7i69
[15:34:46] <JT-5i25> mine is from 2011-09-22
[15:34:58] <JT-5i25> it is a release
[15:35:05] <pcw_home> Yeah thats too old for the fix
[15:35:08] <andypugh> Do you feel like updating and trying again?
[15:35:30] <JT-5i25> don't know how to update and installed version
[15:35:40] <andypugh> Should be an automatic update if it was from the buildbot
[15:35:43] <JT-5i25> and/an
[15:35:53] <JT-5i25> yep buildbot
[15:36:06] <andypugh> Check the update manager
[15:36:14] <JT-5i25> checking
[15:36:36] <JT-5i25> I think it only gets updated when cradek releases it
[15:37:01] <andypugh> I thought that happened at least once a day.
[15:37:13] <andypugh> But apt-update ought to do it?
[15:37:35] <JT-5i25> last activity on the pre2 branch is 4 months ago
[15:38:12] <andypugh> I am confused then
[15:38:18] <pfred1> me too
[15:38:23] <JT-5i25> I remain that way most of the time
[15:38:41] <JT-5i25> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=summary
[15:38:50] <pfred1> pfred1@spot:~$ locate apt-update
[15:40:18] <JT-5i25> I might have downloaded a deb or something on this computer
[15:41:19] <andypugh> I thought the builbot gave you the latest 2.5, but you seem to have a pre-release instead.
[15:43:02] <pfred1> what is a builbot?
[15:43:22] <JT-5i25> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[15:44:07] <pfred1> oh it is a package server
[15:44:39] <JT-5i25> I just verified that I'm not a buildbot version here as there is no file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/linuxcnc-buildbot.list
[15:44:48] <JT-5i25> I'll do that in a bit
[15:45:01] * pfred1 just used the tar.gzs
[15:48:07] <pfred1> with ./configure --enable-run-in-place EMC pretty much segregates itself nicely
[15:50:44] <pfred1> my box has 2.4.4 and 2.4.5 on it side by side was so much a non-issue I never even bothered ever deleting 2.4.4
[15:56:11] <gene77> Next cd worked. ;)
[15:56:17] <andypugh> pfred1: The buildbot creates a new installed package every time it runs, no need to have the source or wrangle git.
[15:56:37] <pfred1> andypugh I've just ever used the tarballs
[15:57:21] <gene77> Now, gcode problem (and the buildbot is sweet)
[15:57:22] <pfred1> I haven't even gone to 2.5.7 yet 2.5.5 seems to work to me so whatever bugs got squashed i haven't run into yet
[15:58:35] <gene77> line 28 of a while routine:o100 call
[15:58:44] <pfred1> andypugh plus i don't run a system created by the CD image I have a custom build on Debian Lenny I'm not sure if it would appreciate the repository interactions that might occur
[15:58:44] <andypugh> pfred1: I think you mean 2.4.7?
[15:59:16] <pfred1> could be that machine is behind me
[15:59:26] <andypugh> And yes, the packages are very OS-dependent. Though I see the builbot is creating packeges for Precise now.
[15:59:34] <gene77> line 29 is missing an equals sign, says linuxcnc:#<_xtmp> = [ #<_xtmp> + #<_xycut> ]
[15:59:59] <gene77> I can't see a missing = sign in that
[16:00:31] <pfred1> maybe linuxcnc:#<_xtmp> == [ #<_xtmp> + #<_xycut> ] ?!?
[16:00:59] <gene77> the o100 call uses all global vars as named
[16:01:45] <gene77> that would be a major change in the syntax we've been using for years!
[16:02:46] <skunkworks_> does it say 'around 29' could it be another line?
[16:03:14] <gene77> you have just seen line 28 and line 29
[16:03:35] <gene77> line 28 is : o100 call
[16:05:07] <gene77> linuxcnc has often quoted the next line as the problem line, and there are no value assignments is the o100 sub
[16:05:47] <andypugh> pfred1: No, in G-code the test for equality is "EQ", and = is for assignment
[16:06:16] <andypugh> gene77: The line quoted is often wrong by a few lines.
[16:06:44] <pfred1> like a compile failure?
[16:06:54] <gene77> The whole thing is a decending size rectangular loop
[16:07:05] <pfred1> the real problem with those usually is quite a few lines earlier
[16:07:28] <andypugh> gene77: Have you made the file visible anywhere?
[16:08:15] <gene77> No, but I can pastebin.ca it I imagine hang a couple
[16:08:44] <skunkworks_> forgive my denseness... what does linuxcnc:#<_xtmp> mean? (colon..)
[16:10:41] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:11:08] <andypugh> Godnight
[16:11:30] <andypugh> skunkworks: I think it is just a pasted error message
[16:12:27] <skunkworks_> ah
[16:13:34] <pfred1> wholly smokes Microsoft won't even show you their licensing terms unless you're already a license holder
[16:13:36] <gene77> The code line starts after the :
[16:14:31] <gene77> and pastebin.ca has changed the menu's AND times out. Next place?
[16:17:02] <gene77> http://pastebin.ca/2120044
[16:19:06] <gene77> apparently the only way I can upload text is copy/paste, bummer
[16:23:14] <andypugh> gene77: Line 17
[16:23:35] <andypugh> It looks like the line counter was confused by unwrapping the sub.
[16:24:01] <Jymmm> Ok, who's in Utah I can crash at for a while...
http://www.utah3d.net/panoramas_3/winter-night-sky.html
[16:24:24] <andypugh> gene77: It is "g1f15 #<_zsafe>" that it doesn't like, it wants an axis word.
[16:24:52] <pfred1> Jymmm I have a friend in Utah at least i think he's in utah let me ask them
[16:25:50] <Jymmm> pfred1: It's all good. I just think that's totally awesome!!! =)
[16:26:10] <gene77> Aha, damn, I'm getting blind too!
[16:29:16] <gene77> Thanks Andy!
[16:31:12] <pfred1> Jymmm the sky at night in Maine is pretty wild too
[16:31:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: Like that?
[16:32:08] <pfred1> well no picture can do a good starscape justice because they're more 3D
[16:32:18] <pfred1> but yeah you can see the milky way etc.
[16:32:53] <Jymmm> They says Sedonna AZ is the best as it's the darkest sky, but that Utah kinda trump's what I've seen IRL in AZ
[16:59:44] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2jPVu0o0EI&feature=player_embedded
[17:01:27] <ries> skunkworks: thats sucks
[17:13:43] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Your camera mount...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvW5g1wLDrc&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[17:16:26] <jdhnc> wrong url?
[17:24:32] <pfred1> what happened in that first video?
[17:25:05] <pfred1> it reminded me of when my buddy kicked the tripod out from under his camera as the second WTC tower fell down
[17:26:42] <pfred1> did the bit fly out and hit the camera or something?
[17:34:44] <andypugh> skunkworks: I wonder if that is an EMC2 or Mach3 Tormach?
[17:43:18] <skunkworks_> andypugh: mach3
[17:43:35] <andypugh> I feel sympathy rather than guilt then
[17:46:48] <skunkworks_> I think the people that say they don't have problems with mach either have bad memories or dont use it much
[17:58:50] <craynerd> hey guys...anyone in here recommend a USB wireless adapter that works out of the box (or with little fiddling) with the kernal on the ubuntu/linuxcnc latest install
[17:59:26] <craynerd> I`ve got one and it is proving to be a nightmare and considering I use it and it works fine on a different machine, I may as well get a different one for this
[18:01:56] <andypugh> I gave up, and use wireless routers. Currently I have both a $12 4-port and an Apple Airport Express connected to the LinuxCNC machines by ethernet cable, and to the network by WDS.
[18:02:31] <craynerd> sorry pal, gonna have to shoot off, daughter woken up but thanks for reply.
[18:02:57] <andypugh> Time I slept too.
[18:07:09] <Loetmichel> craynerd: hmmm. anyone?
[18:07:27] <Loetmichel> thats what ndiswrapper is made for ;-)
[20:09:41] <skunkworks_> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DIY-CNC/message/32022
[20:11:17] <skunkworks_> http://pastebin.com/F0QXDq9q
[20:21:53] <cstop> skunk
[20:22:37] <pfred1> skunkworks_ now that you've pointed that message out I'm going to reply to it in the group and see what trouble I can cause :>
[20:22:46] <cstop> What did I just read on your pastebin reference? Disgruntled? (Just what would gruntled be?)
[20:23:01] <pfred1> Isn't it fair to say that steppers are crap compared to servos?
[20:23:17] <cstop> no not fair
[20:23:25] <pfred1> well it is true
[20:23:52] <cstop> no steppers should be viewed as high pole count motors that is all,
[20:24:30] <pfred1> steppers run like motors designed by a pollak they're totally bassackwards in operation
[20:25:03] <pfred1> the faster they go the less power you get out of them the slower the more
[20:25:30] <pfred1> it is no wonder people shell out for servos
[20:25:33] <cstop> so instead of micro stepping, do you propose macro stepping? i.e. six pole equivalent?
[20:25:53] <pfred1> microstepping doesn't help you with field excitation
[20:26:15] <pfred1> them coils are going to take time to develop magnetic fields then lose them
[20:26:26] <pfred1> it is physics
[20:26:31] <cstop> for most "real world" applications (machines) power at high speeds is not needed.
[20:26:58] <cstop> yes, macro stepping
[20:27:08] <pfred1> I've dgar raced my stepper motors enough to have seen it time and time again
[20:27:36] <pfred1> gobs of power at 800 RPM beans at 1200
[20:27:44] <cstop> what use is drag racing? except to glorify the deficiency?
[20:28:31] <pfred1> all I'm saying is steppers have break over points after which they're useless
[20:28:59] <Tom_itx> every motor has limits
[20:29:02] <cstop> so stay away from those regiemes
[20:29:09] <pfred1> yeah steppers just reach them sooner
[20:29:18] <Tom_itx> and they are cheaper
[20:29:27] <Tom_itx> you pay one way or the other
[20:29:28] <pfred1> you get what you pay for
[20:29:57] <emperordane> anyone have experience with a SCARA setup?
[20:30:06] <Tom_itx> i would love to have servos but i don't think it would be that practical on a sherline
[20:30:14] <cstop> is 100ipm such a limitation to any real work?
[20:30:28] <Tom_itx> sometimes yes
[20:30:33] <pfred1> cstop it might be if you have an 8 foot long bed
[20:30:52] <pfred1> go get a cup of joe while you're rapiding over
[20:31:12] <Tom_itx> or go eat lunch and come back
[20:31:13] <cstop> program the ops to avoid the long moves
[20:31:21] <pfred1> people seem to be going with racks or belts for that now though
[20:31:40] <cstop> and servosd take reduction units
[20:33:13] <emperordane> no takers for SCARA advice?
[20:33:29] <pfred1> if you add a B to it I've heard of those
[20:34:23] <pfred1> SCARA sounds like what the MOB does to you if you don't pay up
[20:34:56] <gene77> Question? Did the G43.1 and G49 TOL comp stuff get made specific to the G54-G55-G56 that is in effect when the G43.1 options
[20:35:07] <cstop> please define your view of SCARA
[20:35:13] <gene77> call is made in the last 2-3 days???
[20:35:42] <emperordane> @cstop, scara is a polar coordinate robot, with three thetas and a z axis
[20:36:07] <pfred1> emperordane like a hexabot?
[20:36:08] <emperordane> i'm working on an IBM 7575 and built motor controllers for it,
[20:36:40] <emperordane> not quite,
[20:36:41] <emperordane> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqOuaYxXRa4
[20:36:47] <emperordane> similar to that
[20:36:49] <pfred1> I said like not exactly
[20:37:27] <emperordane> gotcha
[20:38:18] <pfred1> oh that isn't liek a hexabot at all
[20:38:23] <emperordane> i've been having issues with HAL and scarakins, figured i'd send you folks a ping
[20:38:24] <pfred1> more like a puma
[20:38:30] <emperordane> yeah
[20:38:38] <pfred1> emc can run pumas
[20:39:12] <emperordane> yeah, there's also a SCARA example file, however tying to HAL has been tricky
[20:39:26] <pfred1> oh no one said it was easy
[20:39:40] <emperordane> haha, i hear that
[20:39:59] <pfred1> there is a video online some guy tied 3 strings to a washer and ran it
[20:40:06] <pfred1> its pretty cool
[20:40:16] <emperordane> i was just trying to see if anyone has successfully documented emc2 + a scara bot
[20:40:48] <emperordane> cartesian is documented EVERYWHERE, but there seems to be quite a bit less for the odd robots
[20:40:57] <pfred1> emperordane you can be the first
[20:42:20] <emperordane> haha, allready working on it, i've got an MK5 abs extrusion head and pretty well documented homegrown dc servo drives
[20:42:42] <pfred1> woo cool you made your own servo amps?
[20:42:51] <pfred1> I want to try that someday
[20:43:19] <pfred1> I want to do one more big stepper driver though
[20:43:28] <emperordane> they will be open hardware, you're welcome to borrow the design when i post them up
[20:43:36] <pfred1> like 7 amps and 45 volts
[20:43:39] <emperordane> ~50A 36v
[20:44:10] <emperordane> its for the IBM Scara, funky 90's servos
[20:44:13] <pfred1> the drivers i made are kind of worthless to build you can buy them for cheaper
[20:44:43] <emperordane> true, the experience part was kinda cool though
[20:44:53] <pfred1> but the plans are open source :)
http://www.instructables.com/id/TB6560-Microstepping-Bipolar-Chopper-Stepper-Motor/
[20:45:31] <emperordane> aww man! thats awesome
[20:45:39] <pfred1> you can get a chinese 3 axis board for $22 today
[20:45:57] <pfred1> my drivers take about $10 an axis to make
[20:46:14] <emperordane> very cool
[20:46:26] <pfred1> but hey i know just about everything ther eis to know about the driver IC
[20:46:26] <emperordane> i'm at ~38$/axis
[20:46:48] <pfred1> most who buy them chinese boards end up blowing them up
[20:46:58] <emperordane> exactly
[20:47:04] <emperordane> i'm half way through documenting mine:
[20:47:06] <emperordane> http://transistor-man.com/theta0.html
[20:47:33] <cstop> I'm all for the industrial surplus when it comes to power comp[onents
[20:47:54] <cstop> Parker S-6 drives for steppers
[20:48:17] <pfred1> did you use discrete mosfets in your H bridge or a packaged unit?
[20:48:42] <cstop> at about $50 each (self contained power supply included!)
[20:48:48] <pfred1> some of them packages come with nice extras like disallowed state lockouts and delays
[20:48:50] <emperordane> discrete fets, i got a giant plastic tube of .9 mili ohm 40v fets from a dude
[20:49:05] <pfred1> yeah but some of the packages have nice features
[20:49:13] <emperordane> the driver was a IR half bridge driver though
[20:49:18] <pfred1> and they're matched better than discrete parts too
[20:49:20] <emperordane> exactly, lots of cool states
[20:49:23] <emperordane> er
[20:49:28] <emperordane> features
[20:49:35] <emperordane> like shootthrough prevention, etc
[20:49:44] <pfred1> yup they have delays
[20:50:17] <pfred1> I mean you can build all that stuff too but sometimes just pays to get the package with it all
[20:50:29] <emperordane> exactly, it saves a boatload of time
[20:50:47] <pfred1> well makes boards simpler construction easier design easier
[20:51:34] <pfred1> some of my earliest motor drivers i didn't understand modularizing so much so I really made a poor choice with them
[20:52:06] <emperordane> i hear that
[20:52:24] <cstop> poorer choice than a $10 chicom device?
[20:52:39] <cstop> real question
[20:52:40] <emperordane> i probably spent more time bread-boarding than it wouldve taken to just tie together a pcb (the route i took in the end)
[20:53:01] <emperordane> havent used a chicom device
[20:53:25] <pfred1> emperordane you mean like this?
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8530/pict0787a.jpg
[20:54:00] <pfred1> the top of that board looks OK though
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1538/pict0783o.jpg
[20:54:06] <emperordane> oh gosh yes exactly
[20:54:14] <cstop> that is a real art work! ;-)
[20:54:22] <pfred1> cstop :)
[20:54:26] <emperordane> hahah
[20:55:33] <emperordane> debug on something like that is always excellent
[20:56:16] <cstop> Hey have you guy got any good solutions to temporary pin connections both male and female? Db and "odd" sized?
[20:56:57] <emperordane> @cstop, you mean like pcb through-hole connectors or scope probe connectors?
[20:57:48] <cstop> seems like I'm forever sticking bits of wire in the females and shoving bits of paper between alligator clips on the males
[20:58:12] <pfred1> scissors
[20:58:18] <pfred1> just cut the ribbon cables
[20:58:44] <cstop> A universal Male pin scope probe is what is wanted. The probe being female
[20:59:36] <cstop> ribbon cables do not show themselves on servo motors or DRO scales
[21:00:25] <cstop> I suppose I should get a DB9 pin break out
[21:00:43] <cstop> Gender cahangers I have
[21:00:48] <pfred1> I made my own BOB
[21:01:07] <emperordane> i like these:
[21:01:10] <emperordane> http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/5016/5016KTR-ND/278887
[21:01:21] <emperordane> @cstop
[21:01:41] <emperordane> if you have a scope probe with a clippy thing they clip into that part
[21:01:50] <emperordane> the part would be surface mounted to a board
[21:01:54] <emperordane> that what you were looking for?
[21:01:57] <pfred1> cstop mine is a buffered parallel port board all you need is barrier strips and the connector
[21:01:59] <emperordane> there's through-hole variants
[21:03:35] <cstop> emp no, I'm talking about male and female pin plugs of all types and genders
[21:04:49] <cstop> for making connections for all types of power and signals DB connectors, MS connectors, DIN connectors ets.
[21:04:53] <pfred1> here is my ugly BOB in action
http://i.imgur.com/HSUs7.jpg
[21:05:01] <pfred1> he only has one DB
[21:05:29] <cstop> pfred1 I have several cnc4pc C10 db-25 bobs
[21:05:32] <pfred1> I chopped up a riser cable out of a junk computer
[21:06:04] <pfred1> I have like a box full of the things was glad to make use of one
[21:06:29] <pfred1> tough things to put to any practical use you know?
[21:07:03] <cstop> just the other day I was working with a 30 pin MS servo motor connector...5v here, gnd and A+ A-
[21:09:04] <cstop> etc
[21:09:58] <emperordane> hm, @cstop, you could just use a pile of DB9 connectors, if you have more than 9 pins, just use more of them
[21:10:01] <pfred1> yeah if you don't have opposite gender plugs you can sacrifice I can see it getting tough to make temp connecitons
[21:10:02] <emperordane> they are dirt cheap
[21:10:56] <pfred1> for my project I've standardized on barrier strips and individual wires
[21:11:12] <pfred1> cept for the P-Port cable
[21:11:20] <cstop> love those screw terms
[21:11:40] <pfred1> yeah bit of a pain to connect and disconnect but pretty flexible
[21:12:05] <pfred1> I figure once it is all hooked up I won't be taking it apart too often
[21:15:07] <clytle374> pfred1, so if I break file named X in Ubuntu, who do I find what package owns it so I can reinstall it?
[21:15:20] <clytle374> X=somefile
[21:16:33] <cstop> what did I hit that makes a beep at every key stroke?
[21:16:47] <cstop> irc thing
[21:16:55] <emperordane> what client are you using?
[21:17:08] <cstop> xchat
[21:17:50] <pfred1> clytle374
http://www.cyberciti.biz/howto/question/linux/dpkg-cheat-sheet.php
[21:18:09] <pfred1> dpkg -S {/path/to/file}
[21:19:23] <clytle374> thanks, Precise seems to have some include troubles.
[21:19:37] <clytle374> I fixed it the wrong way, the first time
[21:19:41] * pfred1 runs stock Debian
[21:19:47] <clytle374> Now to see if Linuxcnc works
[21:20:02] <pfred1> though today with Squeeze I can't wholeheartedly recommend it
[21:20:16] <pfred1> Lenny rox though
[21:20:50] <pfred1> I've been mulling over the thought of trying out gentoo lately
[21:20:57] <clytle374> I'll still take Gentoo anyday...
[21:21:15] <clytle374> Having a good toolchain is priceless
[21:21:19] <pfred1> yeah sometimes I do want the fine grained control
[21:21:39] <pfred1> who am I kidding I'm a total control phreak
[21:21:49] <clytle374> I love it when people ask what version of Gentoo I'm running
[21:22:11] <pfred1> but i have to say lenny is really close to my ideal
[21:22:40] <pfred1> I didn't have to tweak too much of it at all to be happy
[21:23:14] <pfred1> I have two boxes that run squeeze not to thrilled with either of them
[21:23:29] <cstop> ;whizzz...sound of "something" going over my head
[21:24:15] <pfred1> I tried arch it is just too nuts and bolts
[21:24:36] <pfred1> like here have a bag of bolts try to get something to run with it
[21:25:15] <clytle374> well, Gentoo works real easy as long as there is an ebuild for the software you want..
[21:25:19] <pfred1> I do like dpkg
[21:25:26] <clytle374> If not, at least you have a good tool chain
[21:25:50] <clytle374> well, linuxcnc isn't going to work.. I went into the other room to find X is broken
[21:25:55] <pfred1> well i learned years ago that package management is the key to happiness
[21:26:25] <clytle374> Gentoo is the way they should all work
[21:26:30] <pfred1> I ran slackware long ago before it had any real package management and just about drove myself crazy trying to keep everything straight
[21:27:01] <pfred1> it was overwhelming
[21:27:02] <clytle374> emerge and portage handle it very well imo
[21:27:12] <pfred1> yeah need something
[21:27:22] <pfred1> so then I ran RPM based systems for a long time
[21:27:41] <clytle374> me too
[21:27:58] <pfred1> when I finally came out of all that I ran ubuntu for a little bit then went over to full blown debian
[21:28:16] <pfred1> I'd run debian eons ago back in the dselect daze
[21:28:21] <clytle374> until you find you need the dev package of a bunch of installed stuff to get something else to work
[21:28:27] <pfred1> but never was too comfortable with it back then
[21:28:40] <pfred1> always gave it up for something else
[21:29:14] <pfred1> like i ran Debian in 1997
[21:29:22] <pfred1> stuff was rough back then!
[21:29:47] <pfred1> I'd literally sweat during the install
[21:29:53] <clytle374> I had a BP6 mobo and a voodoo2 card..
[21:30:04] <clytle374> 2 cpus and direct rendering
[21:30:10] <pfred1> what do you mean if I have this I can't have that?
[21:30:24] <pfred1> it was a nightmare
[21:30:31] <clytle374> and sound and a working modem was happiness back then
[21:30:50] <pfred1> oh yeah way back I used to have the commercial sound drivers
[21:31:05] <pfred1> they were really good even years after my license expired they'd hook me up
[21:31:27] <pfred1> now sound just works
[21:31:36] <pfred1> cept on my new system
[21:31:53] <pfred1> I tossed an old soundblaster card in it and it works
[21:32:06] <clytle374> Looks like Ubuntu moved the header files, maybe I'll get the same failures this time.
[21:32:11] <clytle374> If I ever get that far
[21:32:15] <pfred1> I never got the onboard to work but i might have had the wires wrong or something
[21:32:56] <pfred1> well you can add an -I line
[21:33:23] <pfred1> or if it is a configure script there is usually a --with-include switch
[21:33:44] <clytle374> I couldn't build rtai
[21:34:13] <clytle374> bunch of headers point to /usr/include/bits but are really in /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu
[21:35:03] <pfred1> clytle374 there are the notes how I did a custom install on Lenny
http://pastebin.com/cYYqyKPX
[21:35:19] <pfred1> I used like a half a dozen different pages of instructions
[21:35:29] <pfred1> each of them was a little wrong here or there
[21:35:59] <pfred1> other than my GL issue my box runs great though
[21:36:13] <pfred1> that I can't be bothered to fix
[21:36:33] <pfred1> it is just going to kill my performance on that hardware
[21:37:43] <clytle374> I wish mine would have failed with an error, jsut wouldn't run hm2.. lpt worked fine
[21:37:56] <clytle374> well, the latest update broke the desktop
[21:38:07] <pfred1> might be GL issue
[21:38:19] <pfred1> I run fluxbox
[21:38:36] <pfred1> about as stripped down and basic as they come
[21:39:03] <pfred1> the RAM died in that box and I ran X with 22MB of good RAM
[21:39:15] <clytle374> no errors in dmesg or Xorg.log
[21:39:24] <pfred1> it wasrunning OK until I tried to open up firefox
[21:39:32] <pfred1> you check syslog?
[21:39:44] <pfred1> that is where my errors showed up
[21:40:36] <clytle374> lightdm terminated, no idea what that is
[21:40:49] <pfred1> google is your friend
[21:40:56] <clytle374> of course I don't have the apparmor patches.. So I get errors
[21:42:32] <pfred1> RTAI sure adds new wrinkles typical Linux systems don't usually see
[21:43:04] <Jymmm> Not if you dont fuck with it =)
[21:43:04] <clytle374> My first rtai kernel and realtime passed all the testsuite
[21:43:18] <pfred1> Jymmm I don't run the CD image
[21:43:30] * pfred1 thinks it sucks
[21:43:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: Like I said...
[21:43:42] <pfred1> hell I know it sucks
[21:44:21] <Jymmm> Dont muck with it and use a computer from THIS century.
[21:44:46] <clytle374> It works good for what it does, I just like a more compact system.
[21:45:15] <clytle374> I'd also like to remove 90% of the drivers so people don't plug things into it
[21:45:19] <pfred1> Jymmm can your box boot up this fast?
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2250/wedoct27bootchart.png
[21:45:45] <Jymmm> pfred1: I dont care how fast a computer can boot, I never turn them off.
[21:45:58] <pfred1> it is one metric of system performance
[21:46:14] <Jymmm> and if I didn, I can go grab a cup of coffee, or take a shit.
[21:46:30] <pfred1> that isn't the point all that shit is screwing you all the time
[21:46:40] <pfred1> you just don't know it
[21:47:25] <Jymmm> I've been in IT for many moons, I know, I just dont care much of the time or toss out the old shit and ind something better.
[21:47:40] <Jymmm> s/ind/find/
[21:48:01] <pfred1> s/ind/find/;g
[21:48:40] <pfred1> sed - stream editor for filtering and transforming text
[21:48:47] <clytle374> I just started out building it since that is how you work a Gentoo system. Then I started to wonder what was going wrong
[21:48:54] <clytle374> Now I want to know it isn't me
[21:49:29] <pfred1> clytle374 one thing I've noticed is X has a video driver and the kernel does and they interact and different versions interact differently
[21:49:42] <pfred1> they're like layers
[21:49:57] <pfred1> I've had some combinations that didn't work
[21:50:19] * pfred1 is a retro Quake head so digs his acceleration
[21:50:20] <clytle374> yep, but what was causing my crazy failures.
[21:50:51] <pfred1> getting Linux to do accelerated GL isn't always 1 2 3
[21:51:23] <pfred1> but doing accelerated GL doesn't always work with RTAI
[21:51:45] <clytle374> My topic is Linuxcnc....... the desktop not loading is a diffrent problem I'm having right now
[21:52:14] <clytle374> It's not rtai.... I said the last update broke the desktop.. I went back to the default kernel
[21:52:20] <pfred1> clytle374 your desktop might be doing GL and you might be doing accelerated GL
[21:52:21] <clytle374> It's still broke
[21:52:50] <pfred1> what'd you do break your xorg.conf file?
[21:52:56] <pfred1> just delete it
[21:53:11] <pfred1> or rename it
[21:53:21] <clytle374> I didn't touch it
[21:53:31] <pfred1> well check and see if you have one
[21:53:36] <pfred1> and if there is anything in it
[21:53:47] <pfred1> it is about all that can break a generic X
[21:54:20] <pfred1> because other than that X autoconfigures to just work today
[21:54:57] * pfred1 remembers when that wasn't the case ...
[21:55:29] <clytle374> If it was X it would log an error?
[21:55:43] <pfred1> it should
[21:55:55] <pfred1> your X log should spit out WWs
[21:56:31] <pfred1> so you upgraded the kernel or what?
[21:57:31] <pfred1> but sometimes X can break and not even know it
[21:57:40] <clytle374> I ran apt-get upgrade in hopes of fixing the include probelm
[21:58:00] <pfred1> ah so you really don't know what changed and did you in?
[21:58:25] * pfred1 does aptitude safe-upgrade
[21:58:35] <pfred1> hasn't did me in yet
[21:59:19] <pfred1> well safe-update upgrading is never safe
[21:59:21] <clytle374> No idea. "The last update broke the desktop"
[21:59:39] <clytle374> this is apt-get
[22:00:05] <pfred1> aptitude is part of dpkg well an add on for it
[22:00:16] <pfred1> it is the preferred front end today
[22:00:35] <pfred1> apt-get is archaic
[22:00:50] <pfred1> still works, kinda
[22:01:13] <pfred1> but users are urged to migrate to aptitude
[22:01:30] <clytle374> I'm starting to think that binaries are archaic
[22:01:32] <clytle374> brb
[22:01:55] <pfred1> yeah I've had deb packages that didn't work as advertised
[22:02:09] <pfred1> especially X itself
[22:02:32] <pfred1> was why I coiuldn't run Lenny on my i3 box
[22:02:48] <pfred1> it should have worked except that it didn't
[22:05:15] <clytle374> power grid is back up here, need to shutdown and reboot
[22:08:04] <emperordane> @pfred, why is apt-get archaic? did i miss something
[22:08:17] <pfred1> emperordane ask the debian developers
[22:08:45] <pfred1> aptitude just does a better job today
[22:09:12] <emperordane> ah, never really understood the difference, i should look into it
[22:09:24] <pfred1> I think aptitude handles dependencies better than apt did
[22:09:53] <pfred1> but if you read their documentaiton today they say to use aptitude
[22:10:39] <emperordane> hm, cool, good to know
[22:11:14] <pfred1> least debian but I guess that goes for all distros that use dpkg
[22:11:47] <pfred1> I don't think any dpkg based distro uses anything modified from debian's tools
[22:12:03] <pfred1> they're just different repros with different system configs
[22:13:07] <pfred1> ubuntu is a hacked debian testing with their own secret sauce added
[22:13:43] <emperordane> gotcha
[22:14:08] <pfred1> so I'd imagine debian's policy rules as far as the tools go at least apply
[22:14:24] <pfred1> well policy guidelines
[22:14:46] <pfred1> they have rules too that just doesn't happen to fall into that catagory
[22:15:26] <pfred1> it is debian's rules which is why there are spliter distributions
[22:15:41] <pfred1> splinter even
[22:16:17] <pfred1> some of debian's rules are a royal pain in the butt too
[22:23:08] <clytle374> well the power is back on, I have rtai and Linuxcnc installed. But no desktop
[22:23:50] <pfred1> do you use a display manager or startx from the terminal?
[22:24:12] <clytle374> I was defaulted to lightdm
[22:24:17] <clytle374> auto login was on
[22:24:34] <pfred1> oh then your dm is broken
[22:25:02] <clytle374> yep, now why is the question
[22:25:11] <Jymmm> defective power.
[22:25:11] <clytle374> startx gives failed to load session "Ubuntu"
[22:25:15] <pfred1> wasn't that the error your were getting lightdm?
[22:25:23] <clytle374> yep
[22:25:38] <clytle374> my generator makes good power,
[22:26:01] <Jymmm> NO CLEAN POWER FOR YOU! NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!! s/The Power Nazi/
[22:26:29] <Jymmm> clytle374: you're off the grid?
[22:26:43] <clytle374> I was due to 8" of wet snow
[22:27:32] <Jymmm> Heh, I really need to make a raised portable shelter for my generator.
[22:27:47] <ve7it> Jymmm, had a good day today..... found a like new dishwasher on freecycle and fixed it by plugging in the control cable. Tore out the old DW.. it was rusted and leaked and smelled bad.
[22:27:48] <clytle374> Ours is in the garage
[22:28:27] <Jymmm> ve7it: Nice! We used to dumpster dive for things, found a DW once tested it with water hose =)
[22:29:08] <Jymmm> clytle374: I have a honda eu2000i, so need a portable shelter. I'm thinking tent poles and nylon
[22:29:18] <pfred1> clytle374 what version of ubuntu are you on and what window manager do you use?
[22:29:42] <ve7it> I love the dumpster dive, but there is not much good stuff on this island... need bigger population centers
[22:29:54] <clytle374> Precise and gnome
[22:29:58] <clytle374> http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww70/clytle374/?action=view¤t=DSCN2803.jpg
[22:30:00] <pfred1> yeah I'm out in the boonies no dumpsters here
[22:30:18] <clytle374> Here is what you need, if you think the power is going to be out long
[22:30:18] <Jymmm> ve7it: Yeah. Usually following the trash days helps
[22:31:07] <ve7it> Jymmm, you are in a great location for diving, but I have seen some mighty big rats in the bay area
[22:31:25] <pfred1> clytle374 Precise is their testing branch?
[22:31:31] <Jymmm> ve7it: many places have locked gates/dumpsters around here.
[22:31:34] <Jymmm> clytle374:
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu2000i
[22:31:46] <clytle374> yep, it is to be the new cnc release
[22:31:51] <Jymmm> clytle374: Can mod it to take gas/LP/NG
[22:32:08] <pfred1> clytle374 apparently you've been bitten by the unstable bug
[22:32:28] <Jymmm> clytle374:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNaGW5SOPas
[22:32:30] <ve7it> Jymmm, we used to have twice a year recycle days where you could put just about anything on the curb.... used to be a great way to collect printers and computers
[22:32:30] <clytle374> Mine will run motor oil, veg oil, about anything oily
[22:32:35] <pfred1> that is why testing branches are under test they're unstable
[22:33:15] <clytle374> I think I understand testing alright
[22:33:24] <pfred1> clytle374 I think the only thing you can do is update and upgrade until it works
[22:33:53] <clytle374> probably
[22:34:01] <pfred1> hope someone fixes it
[22:34:04] <clytle374> 2000 watts isn't much
[22:34:28] <Jymmm> clytle374: No, but can run any appliance
[22:34:36] <Jymmm> and is portable
[22:34:39] <clytle374> I'm using testing in hopes it failes the way gentoo did, then someone will need to fix it
[22:34:57] <pfred1> depends an induction motor will pull 600% amps on start up
[22:34:59] <Jymmm> I cna get a 2nd one and run in tandem, ther'es a special cable to interconnect two of them
[22:35:01] <clytle374> What about a stove, water heater, and well pump?
[22:35:25] <clytle374> Jymmm, yeah the inverter type generators are very cool
[22:35:26] <Jymmm> one at a time
[22:35:38] <Jymmm> stove == gas
[22:35:57] <Jymmm> it's not inteneded for full time use
[22:36:11] <pfred1> when the power goes out here i just go to sleep
[22:36:27] <Jymmm> and it's QUIET!!!!
[22:36:29] <clytle374> that's the difference. these are made to run months on end
[22:36:38] <pfred1> oh it is really quiet here
[22:36:53] <Jymmm> the generator that is
[22:37:19] <clytle374> You can't hear ours inside, I had to make that expansion tank for when it's under a heavy load
[22:37:33] <pfred1> when I go outside i don't hear anything
[22:38:02] <clytle374> 12hp single cylinder 750rpm diesels make a good thump under load
[22:38:37] <pfred1> sometimes people shoot guns here that is noisey
[22:39:13] <clytle374> why only sometimes?
[22:39:27] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwRo5kI7ve0&feature=related
[22:39:27] <pfred1> I donno seems to be a weekend thing mostly
[22:40:05] <pfred1> years ago was a lot more shooting now it has died off a lot
[22:42:24] <emperordane> @jymmm, how far north are you that you got 8" of wet snow?
[22:42:50] <clytle374> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbpiYeCJbNs&feature=related smaller but same engine
[22:43:56] <clytle374> not bad for not having a proper muffleer
[22:44:23] <clytle374> emperordane, I got the snow.. Southern WV
[22:45:17] <emperordane> whaaaat, west virginia?
[22:45:56] <clytle374> yep
[22:47:01] <emperordane> the heck, boston was ~50-60's today
[22:47:05] <emperordane> (F)
[22:49:11] <clytle374> weather is like that
[22:50:57] <clytle374> four hours on 1 gallon of diesel, not bad. You'd almost think the 1940s technology works pretty darn good.
[23:55:37] <clytle374> Well, I thought I was on the grid. It was just teaser power. Now they say we'll have power at 11:30 tonight
[23:55:44] <clytle374> 23 hours from now.
