#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-15

[01:57:24] <DJ9DJ> good morning
[02:44:39] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:01:06] <mazafaka> morning
[03:01:18] <mazafaka> evening, but i am going to the work
[04:19:20] <mhaberler> asciidoc q: what does the text in parentheses effect?
[04:19:24] <mhaberler> == Subroutine return values(((Return Values)))
[04:19:54] <mhaberler> 'Return Values' doesnt show up as a string anywhere under docs post-formatting - looks like noise to me?
[04:20:32] <mhaberler> (this was from docs/src/gcode/o-code.txt)
[09:09:26] <awallin_> hmm how about this for a LinuxCNC toy.. http://store.makerslide.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=47
[09:23:26] <archivist> strange "feet"
[09:24:17] <seb_kuzminsky> some of the kids in my hackspace are playing with makerslide
[09:24:28] <seb_kuzminsky> it looks like fun tinkertoys
[09:25:12] <awallin_> I can't seem to find the dimensions for the ORD Bot...
[09:25:31] <seb_kuzminsky> it's "tiny x tiny"
[09:25:47] <awallin_> yeah :)
[09:26:33] <archivist> http://www.buildlog.net/cnc_laser/erp/ind_bom.html?partNo=D30050
[09:26:44] <archivist> all the part sizes
[09:27:22] <awallin_> thanks
[09:27:38] <archivist> I can see it is a little flimsy, I can see some areas where it will flex
[09:28:25] <awallin_> this looks reasonable http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEJL_6TL_Q0
[09:28:36] <awallin_> ofcourse there are no cutting forces in 3d printing..
[09:29:11] <archivist> no but the cables pipes and head weight
[09:38:12] <vin321> yay
[09:41:14] <gromits> psha: are you there?
[09:56:07] <awallin_> hmm, 300 for the ORD-bot + motor-controller, extruder-head/motor, heated-bed... it all adds up..
[09:57:46] <jdhnc> much like any other nifty toy.
[09:57:54] * JT-Shop is sleepy for some reason today
[09:58:21] <jdhnc> quit staying up all night drinking tequila with tiajuana hookers.
[10:00:28] <mhaberler> JT-Shop: does my former asciidoc question ring any bells?
[10:00:36] <mhaberler> asciidoc q: what does the text in parentheses effect?
[10:00:44] <mhaberler> == Subroutine return values(((Return Values)))
[10:04:32] <gromits> why does the linuxcnc website randomly appear in french?
[10:04:58] <mhaberler> phase of the moon
[10:05:43] <jdhnc> I have a site with a google calendar that shows up in arabic for me (and reads right to left)
[10:11:11] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: (((Some text)))) creates an entry in the pdf docs in the index
[10:11:28] <mhaberler> but not html, I assume?
[10:11:42] <JT-Shop> no, the html index is currently broken
[10:11:47] <mhaberler> oh, ok
[10:12:08] <JT-Shop> we need to tease psha with that challenge :)
[10:12:41] <mhaberler> we need to restate the problem to make it more sexy
[10:12:43] * JT-Shop internet has been off for a day and a half :/
[10:13:14] * JT-Shop ponders how to make it more sexy for psha
[10:13:37] <mhaberler> btw: here's your: 'how do I make g33.1 a cycle' DIY kit: file:///Volumes/mah/emc2-dev/docs/html/remap/structure.html#_creating_new_g_code_cycles_a_id_remap_g_code_cycles_a
[10:14:01] <mazafaka> Hey for a shell mill 2.5 inches in diameter, would you choose a cutting depth of 0.1 inch at 600-700 RPM with feedrate of 0.01 inch per revolution?
[10:14:01] <mhaberler> oops: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html#_creating_new_g_code_cycles_a_id_remap_g_code_cycles_a
[10:14:49] <mazafaka> I would go with lower cutting depth and higher RPMs what as I think would offer a higher speed.
[10:15:18] <awallin_> you probably need to tell us what material you are machining - for the question to make any sense..
[10:16:10] <mazafaka> usual steel
[10:18:48] <JT-Shop> mazafaka: how many inserts?
[10:18:56] <psha> gromits: here
[10:19:00] <mazafaka> about 10 maybe
[10:19:34] <mazafaka> I worked with a preprogrammed G-code and it seemed too slow.
[10:19:58] <JT-Shop> about 300 rpm 15 IPM is 200 SFM and 0.005" chip load
[10:21:08] <mazafaka> I don't know, I would learn from the vibration and noise
[10:21:37] <JT-Shop> my 2.5 in says 400-600 SFM for A36 steel
[10:22:04] <JT-Shop> so 600 - 900 RPM
[10:22:23] <JT-Shop> 30 to 45 IPM
[10:22:51] <JT-Shop> The maker says I should see a "Rooster Tail" of chips coming off of the face mill
[10:23:02] <JT-Shop> and cut steel dry
[10:23:05] <JT-Shop> or with air
[10:30:03] <vin321> hi im some what noob @ cnc & i have kinda made 1 just having some trouble with it missing steps & a constant high pitch whining sound that makes ppl & anamals leave the house
[10:30:34] <archivist> adjust the acceleration rate
[10:31:00] <vin321> ty ill try that
[10:31:02] <jdhnc> for constant noise?
[10:31:34] <vin321> its there as soon as the drivers are enabled
[10:31:43] <mazafaka> On Millturn WFL M35, I rather adjust the power rate down to 9-10 percent tuning the override percentage.
[10:31:44] <archivist> and maybe adjust you current / voltage if the whine is from the driver switching
[10:32:04] <bill20r3> vin321, are you using a chinese tb6560 driver board, by chance?
[10:32:12] <vin321> yes i am
[10:32:20] <jdhnc> heh, mine did that too.
[10:32:50] <archivist> can you change the switching frequency
[10:32:52] <vin321> & im useing a computer powersupply from the +12 -12
[10:33:13] <jdhnc> do they put out any usable -12?
[10:33:41] <vin321> well ya -12 + +12 = 24
[10:33:45] <bill20r3> vin321, tha'ts a known problem with those, you can mitigate it by replacing some tiny smd capactiors on the board, if you're comfortable with surface mount soldering.
[10:34:23] <vin321> sweet
[10:34:26] <bill20r3> basically the pwm frequency used for microstepping is too low, so it's in the audible range. the fix increases that frequency so that it's above audible range.
[10:34:34] <bill20r3> I've done it, it works.
[10:34:50] <bill20r3> p.s. those drivers are shit, and will be nothing but headaches.
[10:35:01] <bill20r3> turn back now.
[10:35:05] <jdhnc> how much -12v current is available?
[10:35:19] <jdhnc> (just curious)
[10:35:43] <vin321> not sure it will be on the powersupply
[10:35:46] <archivist> vin321, the capacitor on the OSC pin should be smaller
[10:37:06] <bill20r3> I think they have 330pf caps now, you want ~100pf
[10:37:22] <bill20r3> from memory.. verify that.
[10:38:46] <vin321> is there a good url covering the fix ?
[10:39:38] <bill20r3> somewhere, buried in the cnczone forums...
[10:40:37] <archivist> 1n is 44khz which dogs/cats could hear
[10:41:41] <archivist> google gets you a datasheet
[10:42:04] <vin321> ty its horific noise i was thinking id like to make my own drivers wen i have time from a gide
[10:42:34] <vin321> but that a nother day ty for the help
[10:54:46] <vin321> just out of untrest what is a good option for cheep drivers + can i use mofits to amp a good driver chip ?
[10:55:12] <vin321> interst*
[10:56:22] <gromits> psha: just curious if the bug regarding not have a cursor in mdi history widget (and source view too, I guess) will get resolved in the near future?
[11:16:24] <psha> gromits: looking into
[11:25:12] <psha> gromits: you may type commands in mdihistory?
[11:32:42] <gromits> yes, i can type commands and excute them, just no cursor or indication that I am in the input box.
[11:38:46] <psha> chances that it'll have blinkig cursor are very low
[11:46:25] <gromits> I don't need blinking, just need a cursor! Blinking would be a bonus :-)
[12:13:24] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the world
[12:14:41] <mazafaka> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonvanhorn/2297961930/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasonvanhorn/2297168333/in/photostream
[12:15:33] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: why ?
[12:16:10] <IchGuckLive> saturday staerts the samba in Rio Carnaval live over SAT in the TV thats nice
[12:18:11] <mazafaka> because The LOVE Is The Answer, IchGuckLive
[12:19:14] <IchGuckLive> get your self a wife !
[12:19:21] <DJ9DJ> hi ham!
[12:19:30] <gromits> and everyone knows that the answer is 42.
[12:21:36] <IchGuckLive> http://www.jornaltemporeal.com/2010/10/29/a-forca-da-cultura/
[12:21:40] <mazafaka> wi-fi ??
[12:22:09] <mazafaka> I would rather get myself a wife, IchGuckLive !
[12:42:48] <Connor1> Hey guys, I'm putting together a board that has all my taps on it and I want to have all the Drill bits too.. I found a nice chart that has 70% 50% tight clearance and through clearance.. Were is a good place to get individual drill bits? Some of them are used more than once... so I need to pickup spares etc..
[13:18:23] <mrsun> hmm, how is it to mix gnd for VFD and gnd for stepper drivers etc together?
[13:18:26] <mrsun> (including bob)
[13:19:32] <IchGuckLive> how many stepper what power source
[13:19:56] <IchGuckLive> 3 stepper 24V 200W now problem
[13:20:19] <mrsun> IchGuckLive, im thinking more of the ground currents etc from the vfd, dont they produce alot of those? :)
[13:20:41] <mrsun> using same gnd plane (backplate of the cabinett)
[13:20:45] <syyl_ws> they will be a problem, if you have a rcd in your house supply..
[13:20:58] <syyl_ws> house fuse box(?)
[13:21:25] <DJ9DJ> HAK! ;)
[13:21:37] <syyl_ws> psch
[13:21:38] <DJ9DJ> ne, im hak nich. quark
[13:22:03] <DJ9DJ> uh, wrong language...
[13:22:09] * DJ9DJ failed
[13:22:10] <mrsun> syyl, rcd ?
[13:22:17] <syyl_ws> gfi?
[13:22:22] <mrsun> what is rcd?
[13:22:54] <syyl_ws> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device
[13:22:58] <IchGuckLive> im off by tomorrow carnaval starts in Europe
[13:23:08] <Tom_itx> yippee!
[13:23:11] <DJ9DJ> good nite IchGuckLive
[13:23:20] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:23:29] <mrsun> ahh, groud error switch or whatever we call it :P
[13:23:33] <syyl_ws> ah
[13:23:34] <syyl_ws> :D
[13:23:36] <mrsun> syyl_ws, nop do not have one of those =)
[13:23:37] <IchGuckLive> mrsun: thats an FI
[13:23:39] <DJ9DJ> tomorrow the women get crazy and cut off shoe laces and ties
[13:23:51] <syyl_ws> fi is a german name...
[13:23:51] <mrsun> cuts the power at 20mA phase to gnd
[13:23:59] <syyl_ws> right
[13:24:00] <DJ9DJ> jo, RCD is the international name
[13:24:10] <syyl_ws> they can trip if you use a vfd
[13:24:17] <syyl_ws> or be rendered useless by the vfd
[13:24:20] <mrsun> syyl_ws, yeah i know, but do not have one of those =)
[13:24:31] <syyl_ws> perfect ;)
[13:24:49] <mrsun> anyhow the thing im thinking is as im using the same backplate for both the VFD, Stepper drivers and breakout board (so it will even mix with the PCs gnd) will that cause a problem ?
[13:24:55] <mrsun> do i need to isolate the vfd to its own ground ?
[13:24:57] <syyl_ws> hmm
[13:25:06] <syyl_ws> i dont have problems with that...
[13:25:52] <mrsun> should not be a problem imo but =)
[13:26:28] <mrsun> (rebuilding cnc cabinett to include vfd and all the control stuff except the pc in the same little box =)
[13:27:44] <mrsun> got inspired, started my whatever its called when you work for no pay to learn at a big timber industry and got realy inspired by the control stuff they have =)
[13:30:12] <bill20r3> "internship" ..
[13:32:19] <mrsun> ahh =)
[13:35:43] <Jymmm> sucker
[13:35:53] <Jymmm> slave
[13:35:59] <mrsun> haha =)
[13:36:06] <mrsun> i need it to get my permit to start working :P
[13:36:12] <Jymmm> bitch
[13:36:15] <Jymmm> permit?
[13:36:32] <mrsun> or whatever ... i need to go less hours at lower pay :P
[13:36:42] <mrsun> when i start working as an electrician =)
[13:37:03] <Jymmm> In Hollywood, it's called being a "PA" (Production Assistant), which is the same as bitch or gopher
[13:37:22] <mrsun> bitch isnt taht intership at a prison ? ;P
[13:37:29] <Jymmm> mostly getting coffee/food
[13:37:44] <Jymmm> mrsun: no, that' be a lifestyle in prison
[13:37:59] <Jymmm> not necessarily by choice.
[13:38:24] <mrsun> Jymmm, nah they put me to work =) gonna make a monitoring system for the motors starting next week =)0
[13:54:01] <Jymmm> mrsun: So you be a Timber Bitch and they have a woody for you!
[13:54:11] <mrsun> no
[13:54:17] <mrsun> im there with the electrician team :P
[13:54:26] <mrsun> they have a whole team to keep the place running
[13:54:32] <Jymmm> or electric woody!
[13:55:25] <mrsun> wth =)
[13:56:48] <Tom_itx> of course you are referring to putting an electric motor in a classic woody auto?
[14:06:26] <mazafaka> 'eclectic,' he says
[14:44:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: "of course"
[15:39:47] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:44:22] <mrsun> hmm, anyone know of a working pwm to 4-20mA circuit ? :)
[15:44:31] <mrsun> any that can be recomended that is
[15:45:15] <pfred1> mrsun I was looking at some PWM stuff on the net yesterday as pulse multipliers well PLLs actually
[15:47:22] <syyl> a pwm/0-10V circuit doesnt help? ;)
[15:52:09] <jdhnc> http://electronicdesign.com/files/29/4950/figure_01.gif
[15:53:53] <pfred1> what a hack
[15:54:44] <pfred1> that has to be the most convoluted use for a 3 terminal adjustable regulator I've ever seen
[17:52:51] <n9xwp> ?
[17:58:20] <n9xwp> Hello ?
[18:02:17] <skunkworks_> hello
[18:02:56] <n9xwp> Ok , didn't know if this was working. Hello
[18:04:45] <skunkworks_> what's up?
[18:05:12] <n9xwp> Been forever since I used irc, linux. X11 was just startibg to appear.
[18:05:21] <skunkworks_> heh
[18:05:53] <n9xwp> Back to school for me.
[19:03:38] <Thetawaves> what can i do to reduce latency? using the 10.4 livecd
[19:11:29] <Thetawaves> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test my hardware gets the same numbers listed there
[19:11:36] <Thetawaves> does this mean it can not be improved
[19:32:46] <skunkworks_> what does that mean? what latency?
[19:33:32] <Thetawaves> length of time between a timer interrupt and the interrupt service routing being run
[19:34:10] <skunkworks_> what are the numbers?
[19:35:10] <skunkworks_> * what are you getting for latency numbers and what is your system?
[19:35:29] <Thetawaves> 39099 and 28910
[19:35:41] <Thetawaves> Intel Core2Duo E6550 2.3GHz
[19:37:03] <Thetawaves> actually that isn't right
[19:38:02] <Thetawaves> yes it is
[19:38:03] <skunkworks_> have you disabled hyperthreading in the bios?
[19:38:14] <Thetawaves> i'll do that now
[19:38:40] <skunkworks_> that usually helps
[19:40:06] <pfred1> can't you dedicate one core to the RT process?
[19:40:15] <pfred1> there is some grub command
[19:41:45] <pfred1> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=browse&diff=1&id=The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2
[19:41:56] <Thetawaves> i don't appear to have hyperthreading
[19:42:10] <Thetawaves> core multiprocessing to disable 1 core is there
[19:43:14] <pfred1> Thetawaves if it were me I'd try to dedicate one core to EMC
[19:43:43] <pfred1> Thetawaves this isn't a laptop you are trying to use is it?
[19:43:50] <Thetawaves> no
[19:43:54] <pfred1> good
[19:43:59] <Thetawaves> thinkpad m57
[19:44:38] <Thetawaves> i wonder if disabling virtualization will do anything
[19:44:57] <pfred1> Thetawaves I don't want to make yo ufeel bad or anything but I'm getting 18000ns out of a 1 GHz P3 here
[19:45:10] <Thetawaves> hahaha yeah
[19:45:30] <Thetawaves> old hardware seems to do well as reported on that latency test
[19:45:35] <Thetawaves> page
[19:45:45] <pfred1> try doing that "isolcpus=1" thing
[19:45:59] <Thetawaves> ok
[19:46:14] <skunkworks_> when you look at the system-> administration -> system monitor -> resources.. - how many processors show up?
[19:46:25] <Thetawaves> 2
[19:46:32] <Thetawaves> as reported by /proc/cpuinfo
[19:46:47] <pfred1> are they throttled?
[19:46:58] <skunkworks_> ok - then I don't think you are hyperthreading
[19:47:02] <Thetawaves> there was some options for that in the bios
[19:47:07] * pfred1 is havins some issues about that with his i3
[19:48:11] <Thetawaves> give me a second, i want to run a test before i try the isolcpus=1
[19:48:26] <Thetawaves> how do i get to grub console from the livecd?
[19:48:39] <pfred1> I have a core2 laptop and I have to say I'm not terribly impressed with the performance I've seen out of it but I never did EMC with it
[19:49:00] <Thetawaves> weird... i don't need anything faster than the core 2 duo
[19:52:28] <pfred1> after reading that page about isolcpus I only hate grub2 worse
[19:55:47] <Thetawaves> lol lemme guess
[19:55:57] <Thetawaves> you can not enter these options on the live cd
[19:56:28] <pfred1> I never fooled with the live CD
[19:56:40] * pfred1 doesn't even run LinuxCNC's image
[19:57:25] <Thetawaves> i'm running 11.10 with a custom kernel and rtai doesn't appear to have been updated yet
[19:57:26] <pfred1> I laid up a custom system of Debian Lenny and did the RTAI kernel and EMC on it
[19:57:32] <Thetawaves> so that idea was dead in the water
[19:58:34] <pfred1> was a pain but now that it is done I'm happy with it
[19:59:16] <pfred1> Thetawaves a while back the RAm in that machine died and I was running X with 22MB good RAM I thought it was a might bit sluggish ...
[20:00:27] <Thetawaves> lol
[20:00:30] <Thetawaves> nice!
[20:00:50] <pfred1> yeah it'll idle in X using 32MB RAM so I was swapping some
[20:00:54] <Thetawaves> disabling cpu power management brought it down to 31790 and 30858
[20:01:07] <Thetawaves> the first number is 10us better
[20:01:14] <Jymmm> only 11000+ to go
[20:01:27] <pfred1> hey JymmmJymmm
[20:01:49] <pfred1> Jymmm you see my video?
[20:01:52] <Jymmm> howdy
[20:01:59] <Jymmm> nope
[20:02:17] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[20:02:43] <pfred1> stepconf!
[20:03:19] <pfred1> I jacked up the microstepping and it runs even better but no new video of that
[20:03:37] <pfred1> when i get the whole axis done I'mm make something
[20:03:42] <Jymmm> pfred1: very cool!!! =)
[20:04:02] <pfred1> yeah its pretty funny that is just the bearing support was a pain
[20:04:18] <pfred1> I need to screw it into the slide now
[20:07:09] <pfred1> Thetawaves if all else fails this is how I did it http://pastebin.com/cYYqyKPX
[20:07:19] <pfred1> only about 100 or so commands :)
[20:13:42] <Thetawaves> thanks
[20:14:42] <Thetawaves> isolcpus=1 made it worse :(
[20:14:49] <pfred1> doh!
[20:15:10] <pfred1> did you try isolcpus=0 ?
[20:15:31] <Thetawaves> i will now
[20:15:40] <pfred1> what the hey never know
[20:16:04] <pfred1> I said it before and I'll say it again core2s don't impress me
[20:16:27] <pfred1> I'd like to see what my i3 can do with emc though
[20:16:40] <pfred1> that sucker flies
[20:17:21] <Thetawaves> i wonder how this old p4 would do
[20:17:25] <pfred1> though when i buy a system for emc I'm getitng an atom
[20:17:35] <Thetawaves> i saw those numbers
[20:17:38] <Thetawaves> !!!!
[20:17:43] <pfred1> yeah the atoms are hawt
[20:18:15] <Valen> and cheap
[20:18:23] <Valen> I'd like a quad core atom
[20:18:29] <pfred1> well not after yo uget done building one they're not that cheap
[20:18:38] <Valen> 3 cores for UI and one for realtime
[20:19:02] <Valen> $100 for motherboard + cpu is cheap compared to ~$200 for seperate components
[20:19:07] <pfred1> the bare system is like $130 still need everything but CPU mobo and PSU
[20:20:00] <pfred1> need RAM and HDD or some storage
[20:20:24] <pfred1> RAM is cheap though today
[20:21:00] <pfred1> seems some of the PSUs the bare bones atoms ship with leave a bit to be desired to me too
[20:21:27] <pfred1> it is them hidden costs that are a killer
[20:25:18] <Valen> i have all that crap floating around my house so i don't see it lol
[20:25:34] <Valen> i have 4x hdds
[20:25:35] <Valen> 1x laptop hdd
[20:25:42] <Valen> and a sdd on my desk now
[20:25:46] <Valen> all of them are "good" too
[20:28:41] <pfred1> well I don't I don't have any spare computer parts worth a damn anymore
[20:28:58] <pfred1> I have 4 running computers right now though
[20:36:35] <Thetawaves> guess i have to find a new computer
[20:37:33] <Thetawaves> looks like the pentium 4s do well
[22:17:31] <Kirk_Wallace> Hello. I'm trying to get a user comp working: http://wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/sj200mbbasic/sj200mbbasic.comp
[22:19:12] <Kirk_Wallace> I've added the option userspace and user_loop but it doesn't seem to run. FOR_ALL_INSTS seems to be an issue, but I don't know what this is.
[22:45:21] <sirhoax> http://i.imgur.com/QUThm.png
[22:45:31] <sirhoax> -----------------------^