#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-14

[03:47:56] <A2Sheds> Gensor2: bbl, few hours
[04:56:19] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:03:24] <elmo40> moo
[08:32:03] <Gromits> mhaberler, hi. I assume from your message on the mail list that hal_mdihistory has a bug that psha needs to fix?
[08:32:31] <mhaberler> not sure - I tried it and was unsure what you were referring to?
[08:32:59] <Gromits> I get no cursor in the input files of the hal_mdihistory widget.
[08:33:00] <mhaberler> either a history line is selected, or the input window - if the latter, I get a cursor at end of line
[08:33:06] <Gromits> files==field
[08:33:30] <mhaberler> what os version, linuxcnc version?
[08:33:36] <Gromits> I just updated this morning from the buildbot...
[08:33:41] <mhaberler> master?
[08:33:53] <mhaberler> v2.5_branch?
[08:34:05] <Gromits> 2.5 pre release (2.5.0-pre2-866-geb4b260)
[08:34:08] <mhaberler> aha
[08:34:14] <mhaberler> ok, let me see
[08:35:06] <Gromits> ubuntu 10.04 LTS, btw...
[08:35:45] <mhaberler> I need to build and see whether I can reproduce it
[08:35:48] <mhaberler> 10mins
[08:35:53] <Gromits> k
[08:42:13] <mhaberler> I get a cursor on the input window, but I need to click on it
[08:44:33] <mhaberler> http://static.mah.priv.at/public/Screenshot.png
[08:47:08] <Gromits> I get no cursor when Axis comes up or when I click in the field...
[08:49:05] <mhaberler> try this: just make a a window in glade, with a mdihist widget in it; run it from a separate shell as 'gladevcp foo.ui' (so it wont embed in Axis) - still no cursor?
[08:49:36] <mhaberler> I tried like I just described; did not try embedded panel
[08:53:40] <Gromits> I must be doing something wrong. I get a seg fault. gladetest.ui: http://pastebin.com/MCktEtGK error that I get: http://pastebin.com/Apdt2B7h
[08:55:42] <mhaberler> well hey, that install is a dud
[08:55:51] <Gromits> ?
[08:55:59] <mhaberler> you're sure have your path right?
[08:56:35] <Gromits> I just put the gladetest.ui file in the same directory as my other configs (~./linuxcnc/configs/a2gantry/)
[08:57:29] <mhaberler> the shell window from which you ran gladevcp: did you run . ~/emc2-dev/scripts/rip-environment or do you have the whole thing in /usr/bin etc?
[08:58:19] <mhaberler> or in your case, '. ~/linuxcnc/scripts/rip-environment'
[08:58:35] <mhaberler> if not, gladevcp wont be able to connect to HAL
[08:59:09] <Gromits> I don't have linuxcnc/scripts because I installed everything from buildbot ...
[08:59:19] <Gromits> I guess it is just in /usr/bin
[08:59:42] <Gromits> a2ms@a2msg:~/linuxcnc/configs/a2gantry$ ls /usr/bin/gla*
[08:59:44] <Gromits> /usr/bin/glade /usr/bin/glade-3 /usr/bin/gladevcp
[08:59:59] <mhaberler> how do you start linuxcnc, from a shell window or with the desktop starter?
[09:00:57] <Gromits> I have a desktop shortcut, but often start from Ubuntu menu (upper left). or I can open a terminal and type "linuxcnc"....
[09:03:00] <mhaberler> try to start your config from a shell command line, and see what happens - eg
[09:03:02] <mhaberler> cd ~./linuxcnc/configs/a2gantry
[09:03:10] <mhaberler> linuxcnc foo.ini
[09:03:46] <mhaberler> if that doesnt come up either, its a environment thing (I never use the desktop thingie; need to look what it does)
[09:04:25] <Gromits> Came up fine using my normal config....
[09:04:28] <Gromits> a2ms@a2msg:~/linuxcnc/configs/a2gantry$ linuxcnc a2gantry.ini
[09:04:30] <Gromits> LINUXCNC - 2.5.0-pre2-866-geb4b260
[09:04:32] <Gromits> Machine configuration directory is '/home/a2ms/linuxcnc/configs/a2gantry'
[09:04:33] <Gromits> Machine configuration file is 'a2gantry.ini'
[09:04:35] <Gromits> Starting LinuxCNC...
[09:05:10] <mhaberler> axis comes up ok?
[09:05:11] <Gromits> but if I now run gladevcp gladetest.ui it seg faults..
[09:05:18] <Gromits> Yes, Axis and Gladevcp...
[09:05:56] <mhaberler> how - same window? did you put linuxcnc in the background or how did you do it?
[09:06:19] <mhaberler> separate window?
[09:06:31] <Gromits> I kill it first. Let me try the same window and background the first launch....
[09:07:11] <Gromits> Ok, that works.
[09:07:16] <Gromits> And I get a cursor
[09:07:33] <Gromits> so it has to do with embbeded history widget apparently....
[09:07:49] <mhaberler> ok
[09:07:59] <mhaberler> I'll see what embedded mdihist does for me
[09:08:10] <Gromits> Iok
[09:11:22] <mhaberler> ok, reproduced. If the MDIhistory widget is in a panel, you dont get a cursor
[09:11:45] <mhaberler> the issue is very likely the key forwarding to axis
[09:11:47] <Gromits> glad it's not just me :-)
[09:11:54] <mhaberler> no, it isnt
[09:13:13] <mhaberler> see section 10 here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/gladevcp.html#_implementation_note_key_handling_in_axis
[09:15:30] <mhaberler> well unfortunately the technical basis of Axis (TkInter) has its wheels slowly falling off, and we have to deal with it somehow and cludge around it
[09:15:47] <Gromits> so there needs to be a separate key handling for this?
[09:16:02] <mhaberler> I dont know yet, need to talk to psha
[09:16:11] <Gromits> ok
[09:16:25] <Gromits> thx, would love to have this widget work! :-)
[09:16:42] <Gromits> well, it works...just not ideal
[09:16:59] <mhaberler> I know - it should work just fine in a Gtk-only app but that we dont have
[09:17:21] <Gromits> is someone working on a gtk version of Axis?
[09:18:02] <mhaberler> I wish there were
[09:18:19] <mhaberler> (and tcl-free, if she were at it;)
[09:18:29] <JT-Shop> :)
[09:18:36] <Gromits> hmm...
[09:18:44] <mhaberler> excellent obfuscation tool;)
[09:19:37] <mhaberler> the key to do that is to get gremlin.py up to speed but then I dont know what it is lacking relative to Axis preview; the rest of the UI stuff is more mundane
[09:20:04] <Gromits> what does gremlin.py do exactly
[09:20:24] <mhaberler> plot the preview window, like Axis preview, but as a Gtk Widget
[09:20:28] <Gromits> ah
[09:21:10] <Gromits> is there a gcode view widget...
[09:21:34] <mhaberler> you mean editor? that is, yes (even with highlighting of keywords etc)
[09:21:53] <Gromits> cool, that would be an improvement!
[09:22:22] <Gromits> I meant a viewer (like in Axis) but embedded editor would be even better
[09:23:59] <mhaberler> it's in glade, its called 'EMC SourceView'
[09:27:46] <mhaberler> I just checked, it has exactly the same cursor problem
[09:51:46] <Gromits> Is there a way to make the EMC FileChooserButton object only open a single, specific file rather than give the open dialog?
[09:53:39] <mhaberler> well by default I think it opens the current file, so setting that property should in theory do it
[09:53:47] <mhaberler> (famouts last words)
[09:57:32] <mhaberler> see lib/python/gladevcp/hal_sourceview.py - it has a load_file(name) method
[09:58:37] <Gromits> by default it appears to do absolutely nothing :-) I will RTF{source code}
[10:03:39] <Gromits> I think this might be another bug. I selected a .ngc file and Axis claims it has loaded that file (from the heading at the top), but nothing actually happened....
[10:04:10] <Gromits> I am talking about the hal_filechooserbutton here
[10:05:37] <Gromits> no errors or anything in terminal window
[10:14:11] <Gromits> bbl
[12:40:05] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the world
[13:01:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: alex_joni http://dc122.4shared.com/img/392932357/4e4baafb/dlink__2Fdownload_2FayLzbVVQ_3Ftsid_3D20101227-71664-a9d66aa0/preview.mp3
[13:06:46] <Kirk_Wallace> Hello. Can I use switch/case with hex values instead of ascii char's?
[13:15:29] <jdhnc> http://www.prutchi.com/2012/02/04/co2-laser-engravercutter-addition-to-a-cnc-retrofitted-sieg-x2-mini-mill/
[13:18:01] <IchGuckLive> someone knowes a manufacture in the USA that make sutch turrets ? http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdZwea66KXobqaz4rVoUINy3DTugdJkf5fNi3Mt37V-bkFi3e0Wks_zQ
[13:19:22] <jdhnc> is that just a 4 sided lathe tool post?
[13:19:42] <IchGuckLive> with cnc control rotation
[13:20:08] <jdhnc> heh, hard to see in 80x80 pixels
[13:20:48] <Tom_itx> you want the pn off the drive motor?
[13:21:19] * Tom_itx grabs a magnifying glass
[13:21:24] <IchGuckLive> no i need the indexing ring i got one and it is broken
[13:21:32] <IchGuckLive> http://rogerchen.en.made-in-china.com/
[13:21:41] <IchGuckLive> bigger pictures
[13:21:53] <IchGuckLive> TLDB or LDB 6 14
[13:22:35] <Tom_itx> did you ask if they had parts?
[13:22:55] <IchGuckLive> yes 4 weeks ago
[13:23:10] <IchGuckLive> no answer yet ok its holiday there
[13:24:02] <archivist> Kirk_Wallace, in most languages I know yes
[13:27:29] <Kirk_Wallace> archivist: Okay, thanks. The samples I've seen so far used ASCII characters, such as "case 'a': ...". I want "case 0x0F: ...". I suppose I could just write a short test to see if it works.
[13:27:53] <archivist> its just a number
[13:29:15] <jdhnc> 'a' is just 0x61
[13:33:35] <Kirk_Wallace> In another test program I wrote I had to change my command line input using atoi, so this got me thinking ASCII's were handled differently.
[13:34:44] <archivist> 'a' is a string as is '1' but 1 is a number
[13:41:11] <bjam28> IchGuckLive: Thanks for the arduino code, I made some necessary changes to compile it for arduino 1.0
[13:41:27] <IchGuckLive> bjam28: NP
[13:41:43] <IchGuckLive> http://www.cncmakers.com/cnc/controllers/Tool_Post_Turret/Inductive_Sensors_For_Tool_Posts.html THATS it the broken part FOUND it
[13:42:30] <bjam28> but I have only atmega168 now, so the compiled binary is to big for it. I hpe to get the bigger one and try it this week,
[13:45:30] <IchGuckLive> go as low as you can there is mutch room you do not need al this there are 4 mashines in the code bjam28
[13:46:48] <IchGuckLive> bjam28: leve out the intro 8000 pulled off get of the 4th axis 5000 pulld from code and the stop Emergency sign als
[13:46:51] <bjam28> OK, I will optimize it, and reduce it to the minimin required.
[13:47:19] <IchGuckLive> i startet at 4000 working this is now 28000
[13:47:53] <IchGuckLive> the intro effect ets most
[13:48:32] <bjam28> Yeah, the intro is already taken away
[13:48:41] <IchGuckLive> @ all we are taking about this Pendandhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_4S24dW8w
[13:49:41] <IchGuckLive> bjam28: also pull off the EMC2_30.c this is the font
[13:49:53] <IchGuckLive> gets you another 2000
[13:50:24] <IchGuckLive> this all shoudt gibe you at most 7000 to run full code
[13:50:30] <bjam28> Yes, I did it.
[13:51:52] <IchGuckLive> and keep the kommunication below 500/sec betwen linuxcnc->python->arduino->python->linuxcnc
[13:52:46] <IchGuckLive> as you can see on the TV its 25Pic/sec so 100 is good to work with
[13:53:30] <bjam28> I also plan to drive from arduino DRO for 3 axes ( http://www.dealextreme.com/p/8x-digital-tube-8x-key-8x-double-color-led-module-81873)
[13:56:49] <IchGuckLive> thats an SPI
[13:58:19] <IchGuckLive> ok i go offline By GN8
[14:32:23] <mazafaka> What is Arduino?
[14:34:13] <FinboySlick> mazafaka: It's a very popular little PLC platform based on Atmel avr
[14:35:29] <mazafaka> A small monitor with only some buttons providing certain purpose-oriented functionality?
[14:36:01] <FinboySlick> mazafaka: It doesn't usually have a monitor, just inputs and outputs.
[14:36:09] <FinboySlick> be them analog or digital.
[14:36:25] <FinboySlick> You program it to do whatever you want with the inputs and outputs.
[14:36:40] <FinboySlick> It's very popular because it is easy to program.
[14:36:56] <FinboySlick> check youtube for thousands of examples of cool things built with it.
[14:36:58] <mazafaka> Well, I am far from programming?
[14:38:27] <jdhnc> http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=5036601&convertTo=USD
[14:38:32] <FinboySlick> What's your background, electronics?
[14:38:38] <mazafaka> Does it like a mean (just some hardware) used in involing of the automation?
[14:38:45] <mazafaka> no, mechanics
[14:39:15] <jdhnc> I wouldn't call it a PLC
[14:40:21] <mazafaka> I will try to understand something from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYJt1M4Rulk
[14:51:09] <mrsun_> if a encoder is rated 200p/rev .. and it has quadrature, would that be more points or just the fact that i can detect in what direction its going? :)
[14:52:16] <cradek> linuxcnc uses all available edges for position information
[14:53:26] <mrsun_> but if it doesnt have quadrature i cant know for sure if im going CW or CCW? :)
[14:56:24] <cradek> every new edge gives you a new known position
[14:56:35] <cradek> yes it is a consequence of being quadrature
[14:58:19] <mrsun_> ofc in a cnc i guess that doesnt help much, as i will know if im trying to go CW or CCW :P
[14:58:51] <mrsun_> but here then, a 200p/rev encoder, and my steppers are 200 steps/rev at 8 microstepping giving me 1600 steps/rev, can i use these two together ?
[14:59:02] <mrsun_> only that it only "knows" the real position every 8 steps ?
[14:59:17] <mrsun_> so inbetween that its a kind of a gray zone ?
[15:00:40] <jdhnc> what are you planning on doing with the encoder?
[15:01:37] <mrsun_> jdhnc, i want to know that the machine moves
[15:01:39] <mrsun_> realy
[15:01:47] <mrsun_> so i do not do the mistake of milling my table out again :P
[15:02:02] <jdhnc> so the encoder will be on the table, not on the motor shaft?
[15:02:24] <mrsun_> jdhnc, other end of the leadscrew
[15:03:21] <jdhnc> what was broken when you milled the table?
[15:03:35] <mrsun_> jdhnc, well theres a hole in my table :P
[15:03:43] <mrsun_> due to the fact that the steppers stalled
[15:03:52] <jdhnc> gotcha
[15:04:10] <mrsun_> so i want some kind of feedback for movement, if it doesnt move at all, hit the e-stop signal :P
[15:08:55] <mrsun_> or i might couple it to the actual motor, hmm ... just have to modify the motormounts so i can get some kind of belt over to the motor shaft to the encoder :P
[15:10:18] <Kirk_Wallace> In my opinion, for the most basic stepper set up, the LinuxCNC parameters should be set to match the stepper performance. That way if you ask your machine to move in a way that might cause a stall, LinuxCNC will give you a following error. This has worked for many stepper machines, for a long time.
[15:10:58] <Kirk_Wallace> Encoders can give you some insurance though.
[15:11:03] <mrsun_> Kirk_Wallace, well yeah but lets just say a simple thing like a chip on a screw if it gets tehre
[15:11:08] <mrsun_> jams at the nut
[15:11:19] <mrsun_> and voila, linuxcnc wont warn anything
[15:11:23] <mrsun_> it will just stall and continue
[15:12:17] <jdhnc> better than nothing perhaps, but it still won't always tell you if it is acutally moving
[15:12:59] <mrsun_> jdhnc, well for that setup i talked about worst case scenario i miss it by 8 steps? :)
[15:13:22] <jdhnc> I inherited a belt driven stepper system here with the encoder on the shaft. The the belt drive slips and the encoder happily spins with the motor
[15:13:31] <mrsun_> ofc, if its realy sensetive encoder i guess when the motor stalls if it starts to rock back and forth it would still think it was moving :P
[15:13:59] <mrsun_> jdhnc, i have couplers to the leadscrews directly from the motors
[15:14:59] <Kirk_Wallace> Yes in deed, but this should not be allowed to happen, for the most part. I'm not saying encoders would not help your situation, it's just that I would not want them to cover up something that should be fixed more formally.
[15:16:28] <mrsun_> Kirk_Wallace, ofc it should be fixed, but sometimes it just happends
[15:16:49] <mrsun_> maybe a programming error, to high feed rate unable to cut, alu chip clogging in the endmill
[15:17:23] <mrsun_> alot of errors that makes the steppers stall and i can display an error and shut of the spindle =)
[15:19:22] <jdhnc> get bigger steppers!
[15:19:36] <jdhnc> or servos
[15:20:40] <Kirk_Wallace> With the proper .ini file settings for rate and acceleration, LinuxCNC will give you a following error if your g-code asks for motion that would cause a stall. I suppose it would be nice to have a utility that caught the mistake before you run the code.
[15:21:26] <mrsun_> jdhnc, well just tear everything apart if the milling bit is clogged insted of detect a fault condition and stop? :P
[15:21:50] <jdhnc> sure... but only if you are video'ing it.
[15:21:52] <mrsun_> Kirk_Wallace, still a milling bit clogging can happend =)
[15:22:29] <mrsun_> but yeah im thinking of buying some bigger steppers for the mill, its acme screw on it so it needs some more powah to drive the screws properly =)
[15:23:24] <jdhnc> get some ball screws and servos instead of encoders :)
[15:24:28] <Kirk_Wallace> If you want to go through the effort of installing encoders, it would make your machine better. I would tend to put the encoder on the leadscrew rather than the motor. This is closer to axis position rather than motor motion feedback. I suppose linear scales would be even better.
[15:24:37] <mrsun_> jdhnc, do not wanna throw that kind of money on this little milling machine =)
[15:25:45] <mrsun_> a couple of new motors doesnt cost so much, and would give me alot more torque =)
[15:25:54] <mrsun_> on the same frame, tho they would stick out some more from the mill :/
[15:26:41] <mrsun_> 76->112mm
[15:29:11] <Kirk_Wallace> Preloaded ballscrews with proper angular contact end bearings could easily double the cost of your machine, but it would also put it into another class performance wise. Don't expect to recoup to the cost on resale though.
[15:31:59] <jdhnc> what kind of mill is it?
[15:32:14] <mrsun_> its a converted Sieg X1 =)
[15:32:18] <mrsun_> so very small one
[15:32:31] <jdhnc> heh, that might be a little pricey for an X1
[15:32:48] <mrsun_> already did some stupid buys for the machine so
[15:32:55] <jdhnc> I paid $200 for a still-in-the-grease X2
[15:32:56] <mrsun_> payed 3x the actual price for the stepper drivers etc :(
[15:37:50] <Kirk_Wallace> Thinking about, linear scales reminded me of trav-a-dial. One could make a cheap true position encoder with this configuration. http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=11240.0
[16:25:10] <Tom_itx> what command was used to redirect joins here?
[16:38:59] <Jymmm> ?
[16:39:15] <Tom_itx> confused?
[16:39:31] <Tom_itx> i want to redirect a channel
[16:39:40] <Jymmm> chan modes
[16:39:52] <Tom_itx> i realise that
[16:40:07] <Tom_itx> i don't need 'i' i just want to redirect
[17:00:39] <Loetmichel_> so, now i am done for today. (no more motivation)
[17:00:39] <Loetmichel_> Changed the Stars from the coupling from PE to rubber...
[17:00:39] <Loetmichel_> (that IS a PITA to mill!)
[17:00:39] <Loetmichel_> reduced the bearing temperature to about 45°C after 20 minutes Run @ 20kRPM, thats ok.
[17:00:39] <Loetmichel_> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
[17:00:40] <Loetmichel_> AND got the Stpindel holders done, only 2 reinforcements for the holder with 20mm mount
[17:00:40] <Loetmichel_> left to do...
[17:00:41] <Loetmichel_> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12849
[17:00:41] <Loetmichel_> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12852
[17:11:22] <Thetawaves> hello
[17:11:44] <Thetawaves> i seem to have answered my own question http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_stepconf.html
[18:59:39] <pfred1> is it OK to delete the emc.var file?
[19:00:07] <jdhnc> if you don't want to keep them
[19:01:17] <pfred1> well I guess what I'm trying to ask is will the front end generate a new one for me?
[19:01:42] <pfred1> I guess I could move it and see
[19:06:21] <Gensor2> Looking for contacts to help with power supply build
[19:06:44] <pfred1> Gensor2 I've built some power supplies
[19:07:50] <pfred1> Gensor2 this is the one I am using right now to run my machine http://www.instructables.com/id/300-Watt-Linear-Power-Supply/
[19:08:04] <Gensor2> awsome! But.... I have a date to take care of :) will chat later
[19:09:08] <pfred1> man my axis is hustling tonight or the math is off again
[19:09:13] <Gensor2> is that isolated? This is not my strong area
[19:09:48] <Gensor2> it doesnt look isolated
[19:09:57] <pfred1> isolated from what?
[19:10:17] <pfred1> from the wall current? it uses a transformer
[19:11:11] <Gensor2> voltage from outlet is the same voltage being transfered to servos, my understanding a good powersupply uses an inductor
[19:11:28] <pfred1> transformers are inductors
[19:11:48] <pfred1> so you want an isolation transformer?
[19:12:49] <pfred1> Gensor2 now this transformer isn't isolated http://www.instructables.com/id/Bare-Variac-Build/
[19:13:06] <pfred1> you have a direct line to the wall with that one
[19:13:12] <Gensor2> yes, I would like.... 2.2a 200v servos, would like to support 3-4 (they are rated for 200w). pfred.... duty calls, I must leave for my date
[19:13:38] <pfred1> I hate to break it to you but all the isolation in the world isn't going to help you much if you get hit by that
[19:14:08] <pfred1> 200 V @ 2.2 amps is enough to put your lights out
[19:15:42] <Gensor2> :) ya I have 220v single phase here tho. I have money to pay for a safe design with bill of materials. The guy from mesa was going to help me out and did with a drawing.... but the hard drive crashed with the design :(
[19:16:22] <Gensor2> l8ter
[19:19:47] <pfred1> I guess 200V @ 2.2A is better than 220V @ 15A
[19:20:31] <pfred1> but the 200V @ 2.2A will be DC so maybe not ...
[19:21:10] <pfred1> nothing quite like that DC clamp action I always say
[23:05:25] <A2Sheds> Gensor2: post a link to your servos when you get a chance