#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-12

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[00:18:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Sorry, I don't have a respirator against HCL
[02:57:56] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:08:40] <Jymmm> Hi Loetmichel
[03:09:06] <mrsun_> hmm, the diff of a slot mill or whatever its called and an end mill ?
[03:09:30] <mrsun_> http://www.nkbaxter.com/images/MI-Drill-End-Mill.jpg <-- that is what i need atm =)
[03:09:55] <Jymmm> http://metalworkingtool.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Slot-milling-cutter.jpg
[03:10:10] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: in my opiniom: a slot mill can only mill with the sides, a end mitt can mill with the sides AND can face off
[03:10:31] <mrsun_> Loetmichel, well if you can mill with the sides you can face off? :)
[03:10:33] <Loetmichel> ah, or that
[03:10:48] <mrsun_> end mill as i see it is should be used to mill the ends of a piece
[03:10:52] <mrsun_> like that one i pasted there
[03:11:02] <mrsun_> while a slot mill should be to cut slots into the material ?:)
[03:11:37] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: i meant the cutting edges on the end of the mill bit
[03:12:05] <mrsun_> ahh a "Slot drill" as its aparently called has center cutting
[03:12:14] <mrsun_> while an end mill doesnt =)
[03:13:03] <mrsun_> or something like that :P
[03:13:08] <mrsun_> oh well ...
[03:13:09] <mrsun_> =)
[03:13:13] <Loetmichel> thats what i meant. but i am not so fit with the english terms
[03:13:26] <mrsun_> i need a mill with a smaller shank then the cutting surfaces anyhow :/
[03:14:02] <mrsun_> or i have to rotate the workpiece and that makes for error prone compared to clamp it once, face it off, face of the two sides i want parallel to eachother =)
[03:22:19] <Loetmichel> hmm...
[03:24:07] <Loetmichel> i bought a "slot drill" in 6mm for my old mill which could only get 1/8" in the collet... so i had the shaft grinded off on a rotary grinder at a friend.
[03:24:21] <Loetmichel> maybe that is an option for you, too?
[03:29:14] <mrsun_> mm, tried to grind it off some in the lathe (covered the bed etc) with a dremel tool but the grinding bit kinda disapeard and almost nothing hapened on the bit?! :P
[03:29:32] <mrsun_> (its not carbide milling bit so it should be able to grind quite easy imo :P )
[03:39:12] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtQ-aZWOsQI
[03:41:02] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: let me guess: red grinding bit and Tungsten carbide mull bit?
[03:41:04] <Loetmichel> mill
[03:41:06] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[03:41:18] <Loetmichel> ah, sorry, to slow
[03:50:01] <mazafaka> Will the inner diameter of one inch be enough for the piping system (water heater)?
[03:50:38] <skunkworks_> heh - this is the actual video... http://youtu.be/flajZMff28U that previous one was a copy and probably linked to a virus.. http://youtu.be/flajZMff28U
[03:50:53] <awallin> description of that youtube clip must be made by some highly paid "SEO specialist"...
[03:51:09] <mazafaka> with words like 'bishop'
[03:58:45] <Mjolinor> Have a lathe with a single phase (fixed speed) motor. Am going to replace it with w 3phase and a VFD. Should I keep the power the same (3/4 HP) or are there any reasons to go to a higher power motor?
[03:59:44] <awallin> are you using gears? will you be using gears?
[04:00:25] <Mjolinor> well the lathe has gears but generally I was thinking I owuldnt have to use them over much after I fit the variable speed
[04:00:48] <Mjolinor> https://www.apexauctions.co.uk/auction/itemDetails.htm?lotId=36459
[04:00:51] <Mjolinor> that is the lathe
[04:01:03] <awallin> ok. at low speed induction motors will not give very good torque.
[04:01:10] <Mjolinor> I regret not buying it wiht variable speed now
[04:01:14] <Mjolinor> I bought it new :o
[04:01:22] <awallin> you at least need a "vector" VFD to get reasonalbe torque at low rpm
[04:01:42] <Mjolinor> ok so a bigger motor will improve that
[04:02:06] <awallin> yes, at least to some degree
[04:03:14] <awallin> we run a standard induction motor designed for 3000rpm at up to 5000rpm with a VFD for finish-milling. I think the power/torque does drop down after 3000rpm also
[04:04:09] <Mjolinor> that raised another question actually. The motor speed given on the plate is obviously for 50 Hz (UK) but most inverters will allow that to over rev with a higher frequency
[04:04:19] <Mjolinor> is there a rule of thumb for safe revs?
[04:04:43] <awallin> mechanically I think the bearings are designed for some max rpm
[04:04:47] <Mjolinor> some of hte inverters go to 400 Hz, if you have a 2800 rpm motor it would be a bloody helicopter at 400 Hz
[04:05:34] <awallin> electrically I don't think you can create much of a catastrophe... the rotor might also be designed for some max rpm and torque drops off after that
[04:06:43] <Mjolinor> the number of available inverters is mind boggling
[04:06:53] <Mjolinor> but a lot of them have a really easy method for feedback
[04:07:56] <awallin> most of them are 'sensorless', i.e. they monitor voltage/current on the 3 phases
[04:08:37] <Mjolinor> but I have nt sen one yet that doesnt allow feedback
[04:08:49] <awallin> searching my blog I found that we have an "omron varispeed V7"
[04:08:58] <Mjolinor> they all use PWM in so a slotted disk feedback system is really easy
[04:09:10] <Mjolinor> but there are soem out there that will take digital quadrature directly in
[04:09:25] <Mjolinor> so whatever they use it seems pretty trifial to close the loop
[04:09:29] <Mjolinor> trivial
[04:09:49] <awallin> it becomes more like a servo. you then have to worry about max allowable current etc.
[04:10:07] <awallin> for threading and rigid-tapping with LinuxCNC having a closed-loop spindle is not required..
[04:10:23] <Mjolinor> I would have thought that the ones that take quadrature in will look after that them selves
[04:11:09] <Mjolinor> I am not htinking of CNC ing hte machine, jsut leaving it manual with a variable speed so I wouldnt want to have a PC for the closed loop but you could do it real easily with a pic anyway
[04:11:23] <awallin> it will do it's best to keep commanded rpm, sure. but if the VFD is big enough it might fry the motor in the proces... :)
[04:11:57] <Mjolinor> or set the house on fire :)
[04:12:00] <Mjolinor> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IMO-1HP-3-PHASE-DIGITAL-INVERTER-CONVERTER-MYFORD-BOXFORD-LATHE-MILL-DRILL-/380410761789?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item58923f923d
[04:12:10] <Mjolinor> they seem to be very low cost now
[04:12:15] <Mjolinor> that one was one I was htinking about
[04:13:18] <Mjolinor> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280819284489?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[04:13:39] <Mjolinor> I was thinking about that motor but after this conversation I htink I will wait and go for 1 or 1.5 HP
[04:14:14] <awallin> I think the Omron V7 was maybe 150eur. It might be up to 2kW or so. Our motor is 1.5kW.
[04:14:27] <awallin> around 2kW is probably the most you can take from 1-phase mains anyway..
[04:14:40] <Mjolinor> thats another opint to consider
[04:14:47] <Mjolinor> I do have a 3 phase supply in my house
[04:15:16] <Mjolinor> but I was going to stick to single pahse though it is a reason to buy one of the single / 3 input inverters
[04:15:43] <Mjolinor> to me it seems that the 3 phase input inverters shoudl run off singloe phase anyway provided you derate them soemwhat
[04:16:29] <awallin> 1 or 3-phase in should be a software setting in the VFD
[04:17:53] <Mjolinor> i dotn think it shoudl need even that, it is only rectified adn smoothed anyway. I will have to watch the rectification diodes don't get overloaded if I run one fomr single pahse and hte smoothing caps may need to be bigger
[04:18:21] <Mjolinor> but it shoudl work fine. Any setting in the SW of the inverter will only be to please the microprocessor in there anyway
[04:30:34] <A2Sheds> anyone ever come across any OTS robot arms with outputs directly their encoders vs only output data from the controller?
[04:33:43] <mrsun_> Loetmichel, no, hss mill bit and i guess pink grinding bit was the one i had from the grinding stuffs for the little grinder =)
[04:34:23] <Loetmichel> mrsun_: the pink grinding bits are prone to dissolve... VERY bad quality
[04:34:39] <mrsun_> Loetmichel, ahh =)
[04:34:43] <Loetmichel> i would go with a green one, even if thats for harder materials
[04:35:00] <Loetmichel> and be careful: they are GLUED to the shaft
[04:35:02] <mrsun_> Loetmichel, well i took what i had on hand =)
[04:35:15] <Loetmichel> so not to get it TO hot, it will fly away
[04:35:26] <mrsun_> should make a grinding rig for stuff like this so i can buy cheapo end mills and grind the "release" on them =)
[06:28:19] <Loetmichel> sooo... stars ready to go... now i'll make the Aluminium "Crown" couplers ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12831
[06:28:45] <jthornton> neat!
[06:29:55] <Loetmichel> its LD-PE fro a IKEA kitchen cutting board
[06:30:10] <Loetmichel> so i hope it is "self-lubricant" enough
[06:32:57] <DJ9DJ> hi :)
[06:33:40] <Loetmichel> harhar, the next one from germany ;-)
[06:34:02] <DJ9DJ> yeah, Loetmichel did a good job in advertising this channel ;)
[06:37:47] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/cannon/cannon-04.xhtml
[06:50:06] * archivist spies the wine glass
[06:52:11] <jthornton> lol
[06:56:19] <archivist> these days one should me trained in looking at the detail of a picture http://www.funny-funny-pictures.com/dp/1-16.htm
[06:57:01] <jthornton> LOL
[07:00:28] <archivist> that is a classic, but looking at backgrounds started for me in museum work looking how a site was in the past
[07:23:31] <mrsun_> gah casting failiure
[07:23:33] <mrsun_> :(
[07:23:46] <mrsun_> need drier sand .... and better strategy for the foam casting =)
[07:38:22] <mazafaka> It looks like LibreCAD need relatively wide monitor, 1600 pixels. On my 1280x800 monitor, its program window doesn't fit into the screen.
[09:16:28] <awallin> pocketing path: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X2IO1i0EQ3M
[09:19:55] <syyl_> thats interesting
[09:20:23] <syyl_> looks like the constant load strategy, that some cam systems produce
[09:22:26] <Jymmm> Fibonacci
[09:34:43] <awallin> yes that is the idea, the 10mm tool never cuts more than 3mm deep. except you need a pilot hole in the beginning or spiral-ramp or something.
[09:44:02] <syyl_> a bit like that ;)
[09:44:02] <syyl_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hwvuyHa1lQ
[09:45:40] <awallin> yes. the cutting-path is allways part of a circular arc in my strategy. it's hard to tell from the video if it does arcs too..
[09:45:57] <syyl_> yes, does arcs
[09:46:09] <awallin> anyway I think I haven't seen this kind of pocketing toolpath in any open-source cam-programs yet
[09:46:34] <syyl_> idea behind is, to cut slots at full depth with a pretty small tool
[09:47:20] <Loetmichel> OK, THAT looks promising (now i have to make the other side): http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12834
[09:48:08] <Loetmichel> ... and against all odds i got it centered, no runoff detectable (thats the reason for the 3mm hole in the star ;-)
[09:49:30] <JT-Shop> looking good
[10:07:43] <joe9> anyone using the micromill with linuxcnc? http://www.microproto.com/micromill2000.htm It seems to be possible from what I can gather on the website. but, am not sure if anyone has any practical experience with it.
[10:13:24] <JT-Shop> OUCH that is expensive for such a small thing and they force you to purchase Mack too!
[10:16:18] * JT-Shop wonders what it would cost to make one better than that???
[10:16:59] <JT-Shop> acme lead screws...
[10:19:28] <archivist> adjustable gib on x only?
[10:20:05] <JT-Shop> MicroMill with New Powerful 1/4 HP spindle motor (Not shown in Picture)??? don't really have one to take a picture of??
[10:21:39] <joe9> JT-Shop: any alternatives that you would recommend?
[10:21:57] <joe9> I am looking at a cnc machine for pcb milling with 15 mil traces on the board.
[10:22:16] <archivist> an old denford or similar
[10:22:23] <JT-Shop> unfortunately I've never looked for a desktop mill
[10:22:51] <joe9> I can only find the micromill 2000 to be precise enough for that purposes. and building something (from what I have been reading) seems to be out of question for such precision (given that I am starting off on cnc).
[10:23:01] <JT-Shop> you defiantly don't what one with acme screws for pcb milling
[10:23:51] <JT-Shop> I wonder what he means by "Mechanical repeatability 0.0005 in"???
[10:23:53] <joe9> JT-Shop: the micromill has acme lead screws? I am not experienced enough to know the difference between acme lead screws vs "normal" screws.
[10:24:00] <archivist> ebay item 320846684054
[10:24:10] <joe9> archivist: thanks a lot.
[10:24:39] <archivist> acme is normal for cheap mills, ball screw is normal for better mills
[10:24:40] <JT-Shop> acme screws are fine for old manual machines... you want ball screws for a CNC machine
[10:25:03] <joe9> archivist: that is $22/00? that cheap, really for a pcb mill?
[10:25:34] <archivist> well after the last minute fight it wont be £22
[10:25:59] <JT-Shop> nice little unit
[10:26:11] <archivist> and its probably in the wrong country for you
[10:26:23] <joe9> archivist: yes, I am in atlanta, ga, usa.
[10:26:39] <JT-Shop> Dan found some kind of industrial printer that had linear rails and ball screws with servo drives for a couple of hundred bucks
[10:26:40] <archivist> that listing claims its a dressed up sherline
[10:27:07] <archivist> but I dont remember seeing denford doing that
[10:27:23] <JT-Shop> might be a Denford box with a sherline inside
[10:27:38] <joe9> JT-Shop: but, adding the stepper motors, controller card will add up to the 2000/-, would it?
[10:27:44] * JT-Shop needs to make some parts
[10:28:35] <archivist> it already has steppers drives should be in the cabinet
[10:28:46] <joe9> the first model of the denford starts from 3000 GBP.
[10:29:13] <joe9> archivist: the ebay item does. but, getting it to the us will be a pita.
[10:29:58] <archivist> a good proportion of us in here use second hand machines and refurbish/modify as needed, costs can be quite cheap that way
[10:30:37] <ManMower> is it normal for the "last interval" for the servo thread in latency-test to be 600000+ fast every time through?
[10:30:39] <archivist> look in your area for an ex college cnc mill
[10:31:20] <JT-Shop> something like this with ball screws would be nice for pcb milling flea bay 190636230989
[10:31:45] <joe9> archivist, thanks a lot., will do. I have no issues with buying & refurbishing a second hand machine. but, given my experience, i am very likely to not get a good precision
[10:32:26] <JT-Shop> is not easier to just have your pcb board made by a pcb job shop
[10:32:35] <joe9> archivist, jt-shop: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/bfs/2825327906.html
[10:32:46] <joe9> what about the above link? sham?
[10:33:03] <archivist> that one jt pointed at would do you probably
[10:33:06] <joe9> jt-shop, it is. but, I want the flexibility to do somethings differently.
[10:33:26] <JT-Shop> sounds like he is selling off some old equipment from his sign shop
[10:33:33] <mrsun_> i just love how a "friend" of mine that havent even built a single automated setup at all tries to steal all the good stuff from broken cnc machine we got access for :/
[10:33:34] <ManMower> joe9: what are you going to generate toolpaths with?
[10:34:14] <ManMower> the only software I've found that generates half decent toolpaths for pcb isolation milling is lpkf circuitcam, and it costs more than the mill jt-shop pasted
[10:34:39] <joe9> jt-shop, is it fleabay.net? I cannot seem to find that item number on their website.
[10:35:02] * archivist giggles
[10:35:17] <ManMower> joe9: just punch the number he gave into ebay's search :)
[10:35:21] <joe9> ManMower: oh, really? I had no idea about it.
[10:35:51] <joe9> JT-Shop: thanks, found it.
[10:38:50] <joe9> what do you think of these accessories: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Accessories-Sable-2015-/190638461679?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c62f012ef
[10:40:25] <joe9> is the "HSM-90 mini miller" any good?
[10:40:36] <ManMower> joe9: would be nice to know the runout
[10:41:31] <joe9> I think there was someone recently posting on this channel about a pretty cool stepper driver board.
[10:41:41] <ManMower> make your own. it's fun :)
[10:43:04] <JT-Shop> I would use a good stepper driver like Gecko G540 or G251's for that
[10:43:09] <Loetmichel> making of klauenkupplung fhe first: http://youtu.be/jzOtqYhpHIM
[10:44:44] <Loetmichel> the s löecond i have done wrong: 8mm hole for the axle is 8,1mm... redo fron start :-(
[10:45:08] <joe9> jt-shop: the gecko G540 is cool.
[10:45:25] <Loetmichel> second
[10:49:00] <JT-Shop> and works very well... it is 4 mini versions of the G203v packed into one box
[10:49:27] <JT-Shop> adjustable morphing point for smooth stepping over the whole range
[10:49:30] <Tom_itx> i wondered what they were
[10:49:32] <joe9> JT-Shop: any recommendations for a miller? (+ mount).
[10:49:41] <Tom_itx> if they were the 203 or something else
[10:50:06] <Tom_itx> you gotta add a heatsink to them right?
[10:51:12] <JT-Shop> the G251 comes with a heat sink
[10:51:33] <JT-Shop> and if you only have 3 axes I think that is a better setup
[10:52:37] <JT-Shop> the 203 needs a heat sink if you run it past a certain amp level, I just used some old computer cpu heat sinks with fans
[10:55:50] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: i would use a tripleBeast
[10:56:21] <Loetmichel> http://benezan-electronics.de/shop/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=61
[10:56:52] <Loetmichel> ... because its not as prone to ESD damage AND ist local produced ;-
[10:56:53] <Loetmichel> )
[10:56:58] <Tom_itx> i'm kinda wondering if my poor little steppers will withstand my new supply since it's pushing their max V rating
[10:59:53] <Mjolinor> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ABB-ACH-550-01-059A-4-B055-INVERTER-DRIVE-BARGAIN-/130647074375?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item1e6b2c2647
[10:59:56] <Mjolinor> cheap
[11:01:44] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: steppers or stepper driver max rating?
[11:03:31] <Tom_itx> stepper
[11:03:51] <Tom_itx> they run kinda warm as it its. i know steppers run hot though
[11:03:52] <joe9> ManMower: geda pcb can export g-code
[11:04:21] <JT-Shop> what is the inductance of your stepper motors?
[11:04:38] <ManMower> joe9: is it any good at it?
[11:05:07] <joe9> supposedly very good. I use geda pcb and that is the only thing I know. I like the geda toolsuite.
[11:06:08] <joe9> jt-shop: would the zentoolworks cnc machines compare with the sable 2015? wondering if you had ever come across the zentoolworks cnc machines.
[11:06:23] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, http://www.kelinginc.net/KL23H276-30-8B.pdf
[11:06:32] <joe9> http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=74
[11:07:11] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, wired series right now
[11:07:33] <ManMower> joe9: I guess you're doing mostly through hole stuff and not a lot of surface mount?
[11:07:54] <joe9> ManMower: no, I do smt, but not >= 1206 sizes.
[11:08:02] <joe9> ManMower: no, I do smt, but >= 1206 sizes.
[11:08:16] <joe9> i am not doing less than 1206, is what I meant.
[11:08:28] <joe9> I have a TQFP-44 chip, sot23, etc.
[11:08:34] <joe9> in addition.
[11:08:36] <Tom_itx> 0603 is really pretty easy
[11:11:44] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: wired up like that they should handle >200v
[11:12:11] <JT-Shop> 8.8mH is a lot of inductance from what I read
[11:12:13] <Tom_itx> holy crap
[11:12:18] <JT-Shop> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Formulas
[11:12:24] <JT-Shop> http://www.geckodrive.com/ark-4/support.html?id=32
[11:12:26] <Tom_itx> it's 2.2 right now i think
[11:13:16] <JT-Shop> should take 70v or so
[11:13:18] <Tom_itx> i'd have to check the wiring but i though for sure i wired them series for now
[11:13:22] <Tom_itx> maybe not
[11:13:24] <Tom_itx> ok
[11:13:33] <Tom_itx> well it's under that so i guess i won't worry
[11:13:49] <JT-Shop> I'd trust the Gecko FAQ better than most
[11:14:17] <joe9> wolfgang spindle + motor come highly recommended from google search.
[11:14:32] <joe9> would you concur? or, is there something better for pcb milling?
[11:15:16] <JT-Shop> I don't have any experience with high speed spindles, only know what I see here and on the forum about that end of CNC
[11:15:38] <joe9> JT-Shop: what do you recommend for spindle+motor?
[11:16:19] <ManMower> joe9: I've seen people recommend a proxxon die grinder, but I've never used one myself
[11:16:37] <Tom_itx> joe9, for pcb cnc you want a high speed spindle
[11:17:08] <joe9> Tom_itx: I am finding the "wolfgang spindle + motor" to be highly recommended in google searches.
[11:17:15] <Tom_itx> with small cutters it will either take forever otherwise or you will break them because you exceeded the chip load
[11:17:26] <ManMower> joe9: finding a wolfgang spindle to actually buy might be a problem
[11:17:56] <joe9> isn't this wolfgang? http://www.wolfgangengineering.com/Home.php
[11:18:02] <Tom_itx> anybody ever use a die grinder for it?
[11:18:04] <Tom_itx> air powered
[11:18:29] <ManMower> joe9: ooh, nice. I couldn't find any on ebay, and I think they used to be sold exclusively that way. :)
[11:22:38] * JT-Shop wanders off to take a nap
[11:23:58] <joe9> this is my bom for a pcb cnc milling machine: http://codepad.org/V2QuEReo
[11:26:12] <Tom_itx> mmm his page sucks in ie
[11:27:17] <Tom_itx> are those rc car motors?
[11:27:57] <joe9> JT-Shop: just wanted to let you know that I have been researching a pcb cnc mill for some time now, but, could never get anywhere. That was one of the reasons I was looking to buy one. Your input has made it possible for me to build a rough bom within the hour. Just wanted to thank you for your advice.
[11:28:35] <archivist> old pc power supply is too low a voltage probably
[11:28:46] <alex_joni> howdy crowd
[11:28:58] <joe9> archivist: oh, will search for alternatives. thanks
[11:30:28] <joe9> updated bom: http://codepad.org/jUwUhucR
[11:30:37] <archivist> I picked an old Lambda 24v 20A psu, was adjustable to moved it up to 28v
[11:30:53] <sirhoax> yes my 12v psu drops voltage.
[11:31:00] <sirhoax> cnc moves way to slow.
[11:31:13] <sirhoax> nemic lambda makes good psu's
[11:31:19] <sirhoax> got one here for electroplating
[11:31:25] <joe9> archivist: sirhoax: thanks a lot.
[11:31:28] <sirhoax> 5v@120a.
[11:31:32] <sirhoax> heh. ;-)
[11:32:13] <archivist> psu on right http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stagetwo/P1190002.JPG
[11:32:14] <ManMower> I don't think it'd do any harm to test drive it with a pc psu before upgrading.
[11:32:20] <joe9> why don't archivist, jt-shop and the experienced folks hang out at #diycnc. I tried that channel for similar questions, and was not getting anywhere.
[11:32:38] <archivist> because this is the real place :)
[11:33:51] <skunkKandT> this is rreal?
[11:34:30] * archivist thinks that is unreal
[11:35:00] <archivist> joe9, mine is a tiny toy compared to skunkKandT
[11:35:55] <skunkKandT> mine is a toy compared to stuarts.. ;)
[11:36:47] <mrsun_> the junkman archivist =)
[11:36:57] <joe9> on a different note, I have a bunch of holes to drill on a pcb. i have a big drill press, which seems to work pretty good. But, it is a pita to get the alignment of the drill to the hole correct. I have a HF milling machine, but, it is inaccurate and has a big backlash. This is pushed me onto the pcb milling route.
[11:37:08] <skunkKandT> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[11:37:10] <archivist> mrsun_, proving junk works
[11:37:15] <mrsun_> yeah =)
[11:37:24] <joe9> Wondering if there is a simpler automated/accurate milling machine that I can use to align the pcb to the drill.
[11:38:16] <mrsun_> joe9, backlash compensation ? :)
[11:38:17] <archivist> you can create a drill file from the pcb package if it is any good
[11:38:44] <archivist> use ball screws no backlash then
[11:38:48] <joe9> archivist: I can, but I do not have a cnc yet, and was looking to do this without the cnc machine.
[11:39:02] <ManMower> archivist: ball screws have backlash
[11:39:09] <ManMower> unless you're using double nuts or something
[11:39:28] <archivist> ManMower, not preloaded 0 backlash screws
[11:39:36] <ManMower> fair enough :)
[11:40:00] <ManMower> my "preloaded" screws have 2 thou of backlash in them. :/
[11:40:19] <skunkKandT> I could see a cable or timing belt driven machine also for circuit boards.
[11:40:20] <archivist> replace the balls
[11:40:21] * ManMower wonders if he was charged for preloaded screws that weren't actually preloaded
[11:42:01] <joe9> it is not a milling machine, but a milling vise: ttp://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-drill-press-milling-vise-94276.html
[11:42:04] <joe9> this is what I have.
[11:42:46] <ManMower> that's just not going to be any fun
[11:43:00] <joe9> any accurate milling vises that you would recommend, so I do not have to worry with the alignment of the drill press.
[11:43:04] * skunkKandT hugs his ball screws...
[11:43:06] <skunkKandT> http://youtu.be/FgOqEz5Tk-Y
[11:43:16] <joe9> I think once I get the aligment right, I could drill away a bunch of holes in no time.
[11:43:39] <skunkKandT> .0001"
[11:43:55] * ManMower is jealous
[11:44:04] <archivist> skunkKandT, I cheat and only work from one direction
[11:44:39] <skunkKandT> joe9: when i was doing circuit boards - I used a vaccum table and pins for alingment
[11:45:03] <ManMower> that's how it's done with lpkf's circuit board plotters
[11:45:04] <Tom_itx> or double backed tape
[11:45:53] <archivist> good doublesided tape breaks stuff when you remove from the table
[11:46:20] <ManMower> I've seen glue used, and acetone to remove it
[11:46:31] <joe9> skunkKandT: let me google vacuum table.
[11:46:39] <Tom_itx> a good blast of air will help release it
[11:47:02] <archivist> watch/clock makers use shellac and melt to remove
[11:47:32] <skunkKandT> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/bottom.JPG
[11:48:10] <joe9> skunkKandT: that is cool. was that pcb milled with cnc? or, just the holes drilled with pcb?
[11:48:24] <ManMower> looks milled to me
[11:48:29] <ManMower> skunkKandT: what'd you make the toolpaths with?
[11:49:04] <joe9> skunkKandT: what is your bom? or, cnc machine specs?
[11:49:35] <skunkKandT> big slow moving gantry
[11:49:43] <joe9> skunkKandT: are you in sweden?
[11:49:57] <skunkKandT> no - WI usa
[11:50:00] <joe9> skunkKandT: any pics, please?
[11:50:06] <skunkKandT> let me see.
[11:50:23] <joe9> is the setup something that I can replicate?
[11:50:25] <skunkKandT> I use the gcode.ulp written by a few developers here
[11:50:30] <archivist> wont fit on a desk top size
[11:50:48] <archivist> desk site on machine size :)
[11:50:52] <archivist> sits
[11:51:27] <skunkKandT> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCgantry.JPG
[11:51:47] <joe9> skunkKandT: that is a big one.
[11:52:08] <skunkKandT> 3'X5'ish
[11:52:41] <skunkKandT> a 're-purposed' machine
[11:54:14] <ManMower> http://imgur.com/UTHOv <-- pcb cutting from my machine viewed under a microscope
[11:54:19] <archivist> hmm no case on the pc.../me approves
[11:55:05] <skunkKandT> ;) rarely...
[11:55:07] <joe9> ManMower: that is pretty good.
[11:55:21] <skunkKandT> neat
[11:55:54] <ManMower> joe9: the pads on the right are for a qfp208, to give a sense of scale
[11:55:58] <joe9> any recommendations for a good milling vise? or, make this more accurate? http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-drill-press-milling-vise-94276.html
[11:56:13] <Tom_itx> how big?
[11:56:17] <Tom_itx> Kurt are the best
[11:56:52] <joe9> Tom_itx: 10cm x 10cm is good enough. just a cm or 2 more would be helpful.
[11:57:31] <archivist> joe9, once you have a proper mill you wont need those crappy x y vices
[11:57:58] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't waste my money on that one
[11:58:06] <joe9> archivist: I agree. I am just looking for cheaper alternatives until I get a mill.
[11:58:56] <skunkKandT> this was going to be my next pcb mill.
[11:58:57] <skunkKandT> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/pcbmill/mockup1.JPG
[11:59:52] <joe9> skunkKandT: that seems a bit big for a pcb mill. do you need it to be that big?
[12:00:03] <skunkKandT> it is what I had.
[12:00:11] <ManMower> skunkKandT appears to do everything "super sized"
[12:00:14] <skunkKandT> :) plus it could be used for otherthings..
[12:00:36] <syyl_ws> "to big" and "machine" in one sentence dont work together...
[12:02:17] <skunkKandT> that is a 1" thick peice of cast iron
[12:03:16] <archivist> one can collect pics for ambition http://www.collection.archivist.info/BrownHobbing.jpeg
[12:04:29] <archivist> for really big we want the pdf andypugh came up with
[12:04:29] <andypugh> Where does LinuxCNC look for existing non-sample config files?
[12:04:45] <andypugh> Dean Smith and Grace?
[12:04:54] <andypugh> (Guessing)
[12:05:47] <andypugh> Supplementary question, where does Touchy look for ngc files?
[12:07:28] <archivist> yes that was the one, though I kept a copy some where
[12:13:25] <archivist> found it http://www.archivist.info/cnc/Travelling_Gantry_Machine.pdf
[12:17:23] <mrsun_> thats almost like my mill
[12:17:35] <mrsun_> i use it for pcb work
[12:22:24] <joe9> mrsun_: which one? the one that archivist has in the Travelling gantry .pdf? it is huge, are you guys being sarcastic?
[12:22:36] <mrsun_> ofc =)
[12:22:38] <mrsun_> yes that one :P
[12:22:54] <mrsun_> its sickly big ... =)
[12:35:33] <andypugh> The thing is, it is a whole lot like the hobby machines, similar construction even. It's just bigger. A lot bigger.
[12:37:03] <mrsun_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqqSwb7WVko thats more like mine =)
[12:37:20] <mrsun_> tho ive switched motor to a 3 phase motor with vfd and hanging behind the column
[12:37:29] <mrsun_> and scraped the ways
[12:42:00] <ries> mrsun_: How do you keep your monitor clean so close to your mill??? :)
[12:42:10] <mrsun_> ries, "more like mine", not mine
[12:42:27] <ries> Ahhh :)
[12:42:28] <ries> yes I see
[12:42:49] <mrsun_> i have my pc and everything spread out throught the room ;P
[12:43:04] <mrsun_> need to build an enclosure for the mill so ic an just mount everything inside that =)
[12:43:12] <ries> here it's enclosed, except the monitor… but I do wood only so it's less problamatic
[12:53:40] <Loetmichel> so, el-cheapo-mini-spindle runs... http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12837
[12:54:22] <Loetmichel> ... but i think the bearings were a BIT to cheap for 20kRPM: -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12840
[12:57:24] <andypugh> Check the specs, 60C is probably OK.
[12:57:37] <andypugh> But you might want oil not grease
[13:00:06] <Loetmichel> the 43mm part is WAY to hot to touch
[13:00:29] <Loetmichel> the screw was the only part where i could get a stedy reading
[13:02:04] <andypugh> I have heard that skate bearings are cheap and very good, skateboarders like "hot-rod" bearings.
[13:02:37] <Loetmichel> that ARE sheate bearings
[13:02:39] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:02:40] <Loetmichel> skate
[13:02:45] <psha> don't know about skate bearing but ones for inline skates are not very cheap
[13:02:59] <Loetmichel> i have some ...
[13:03:06] <psha> there are cheap but they are not good
[13:03:07] <Tom_itx> not the good ones anyway
[13:03:19] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=448
[13:03:39] <andypugh> Loetmichel: You could swap to angular-contact bearings and find some way to adjust the preload?
[13:03:59] <Loetmichel> this should be "el cheapo"
[13:04:29] <Loetmichel> i will get another pair from the inlinerwheels, and put them in solvent to get rid of the grease
[13:04:38] <Loetmichel> the a bit oil and check again ;-)
[13:04:45] <syyl_ws> get a pair of cheap angular contact bearings.
[13:06:08] <Loetmichel> syyl: i have two of this around here, but i wont use them for a spindle i will donate -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10468
[13:06:30] <Loetmichel> they WILL stay cool, already tested, even with no grease. AND live long
[13:06:40] <Loetmichel> but nearly 40 eur the pair is a bit much ;-)
[13:07:00] <syyl_ws> do whatever you want :D
[13:07:39] <andypugh> I don't trust ceramic bearings. I don't know why, as I know a lot about materials science and worked with a guy developing ceramic springs.
[13:08:55] <andypugh> Budget 608: Speed in Oil = 34000
[13:08:55] <andypugh> Speed in Grease = 23000
[13:09:26] <syyl_ws> i think problem are more the mounting tolerances...
[13:09:45] <Loetmichel> may be
[13:10:35] <andypugh> SKF ones are limited to 38k rpm
[13:11:34] <andypugh> Is there any axial preload in the bearings? You probably want to make sure that one bearing can float.
[13:12:42] <andypugh> In a dual-bearing setup only one should be axially rigid, the other should have an over-length bore, or be a cylindrical or needle bearing. Sorry if you know this stuff.
[13:13:45] <Loetmichel> andypugh: look at the drawing: just two bearings and the coupling as a play limiter
[13:14:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=12821 (PDF
[13:15:47] <andypugh> Hmm, so, you have a screw to adjust the coupling down to the iner race of the upper bearing?
[13:16:11] <Loetmichel> yes
[13:16:53] <andypugh> I think a spacer between the bearings slightly longer than the housing length, then a retaining plate under the outer race of the bottom bearing would be better.
[13:17:05] <Loetmichel> more like: setting the coupling on the axle, pressing the coupling on the beating and the axle the other way, tightening the setscrews
[13:17:45] <Loetmichel> i could do that, but not today ;-)
[13:17:52] <andypugh> With your current arrangement, if the housing gets hot, it will expand more than the shaft, and increase the axial preload, making the bearngs hot, making the housing expand....
[13:17:54] <Loetmichel> will try it along the week
[13:18:16] <Loetmichel> i see
[13:18:57] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5569241816003725954
[13:19:18] <andypugh> Is rather similar, even the same coupling.
[13:20:06] <Loetmichel> i'll try that
[13:20:12] <andypugh> Though in that case the coupling is tight, and the preload is set by the retaining plate.
[13:20:23] <Loetmichel> a tube cutted to length isnt TAHT big a problem
[13:20:50] <Loetmichel> and the retainer isnt hart to do either
[13:21:08] <andypugh> You don't need adjustable preload with deep-groove balls, I had it because those are angular contact.
[13:22:09] <Loetmichel> i could even get away with some loctite red to fit the bearings in the housing and have NO preload wahtsever
[13:22:26] <andypugh> Yes, that would work too.
[13:22:44] <Loetmichel> the small ( few thou) play axially ist a factor if the CNC mill is made of PVC ;-)
[13:22:57] <andypugh> Ah, no, not if you glue both bearings, because of the differential expansion problem.
[13:24:03] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[13:24:05] <andypugh> Clamp them both down tight on the spacer, and lock the bottom outer race somehow, leaving the top one with a bit of float.
[13:24:38] <andypugh> Though they might well still get very hot, that might not be the whole problem.
[13:25:14] <Loetmichel> i think i have seen some 22mm dish springs laying around somewhere... maybe if i put tem under de inner bearing?
[13:25:40] <Loetmichel> making about 10N preload for the bearings...
[13:26:46] <Loetmichel> that would account for the differential expansion, wouldnt it?
[13:29:01] <andypugh> Yes, but I am not sure you really want any preload.
[13:30:16] <Loetmichel> i'll make the spacer and test a bit
[13:30:20] <Loetmichel> next week ;-)
[13:33:21] <JT-Shop> joe9: your welcome
[14:04:38] <A2Sheds> anyone ever come across robot arms (~1m) with encoder outputs vs just position info from the controller?
[14:16:55] <pcw_home> no problem, just add a couple of the REXA versions to the joints:
[14:16:57] <pcw_home> http://www.renishaw.com/en/resolute-rotary-angle-absolute-encoder-options--10939
[15:03:08] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[15:03:25] <DJ9DJ> hi wasguckstdu :D
[15:03:40] <IchGuckLive> Safe back in Germany from CNC tripp to Haas LA CA
[15:04:02] <IchGuckLive> it wars definitly warm in LA
[15:04:02] <DJ9DJ> welcome back :)
[15:04:28] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: DO5PX here
[15:04:55] <IchGuckLive> RLP K09
[15:06:42] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: JN49UF
[15:07:00] <DJ9DJ> hehe
[15:07:30] <DJ9DJ> yeah, its a call sign, but i am not really active...
[15:07:34] <IchGuckLive> There are 260 requests now for the XYUV modification
[15:08:08] <DJ9DJ> some kind of passive ham ;) just interested in the technical things ;)
[15:15:13] <IchGuckLive> me 2
[15:15:35] <DJ9DJ> one ham already told me I shoud give back my harec because I do not do any qso ;)
[15:16:48] <IchGuckLive> B)
[15:17:04] <DJ9DJ> perhaps one day my time will come :D
[15:26:14] <IchGuckLive> someone here from California ?
[15:28:52] <Tom_itx> speaking of.. where's danimal been?
[15:29:36] <archivist> !seen danimal
[15:29:36] <the_wench> last seen in 2011-02-17 00:01:29, seems to have quit or joined and I dont have a message
[15:30:18] <Tom_itx> archivist, it would have been in the emc log
[15:31:01] <Tom_itx> too bad we can't merge those for this purpose
[15:31:21] <archivist> they are all over the place
[15:31:41] <IchGuckLive> ok im off By till tomorrow
[15:37:09] <andypugh> If anyone remembers me modifying a tiny little board I had had manufactured wrongly, I have just found it was made right, and I was testing it wrong... No output voltage because it is a switch. Doh!
[15:38:02] <andypugh> Tomorrow I will try fitting an unmodified version.
[15:38:18] <Tom_itx> 2012-01-02 21:08:38 <Danimal_garage>
[15:52:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: poor bastard.dont ya hate it when that happens!
[15:53:13] <andypugh> I am quite accustomed to making stupid mistakes.
[15:53:31] <andypugh> But it's a pain when it it a tiny PCB of surface-mounts.
[15:53:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: Man, it's all good. Shit happens
[16:09:30] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:56:14] <pfred1> does the live CD work for full RTAI?
[17:58:46] <skunkworks_> yes
[17:59:03] <pfred1> skunkworks_ not just sim but full operation?
[17:59:25] <pfred1> lapic isn't an issue etc.?
[17:59:26] <SWPadnos_> yes
[17:59:32] <SWPadnos_> that's the point of the live CD
[17:59:39] <SWPadnos_> (or one of them anyway)
[18:00:09] <pfred1> I was chatting with someone here the other nite and on a usb key they were having a lot of problems
[18:00:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos_: Really? I thought it was to prevent the zombies from being permanently on your hard drive?
[18:00:33] <pfred1> like as soon as they loaded the RTAI module their machine locked up
[18:00:50] <pfred1> other than that it worked great
[18:01:06] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, the UndeadCD is coming soon
[18:01:20] <SWPadnos> lapic could be an issue
[18:01:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: (I really need to stop reading xkcd for a while)
[18:01:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: WOOHOO! Mmmmmm BRAINS!!!!!!!!!
[18:01:55] <SWPadnos> I don't know what the defaults are on the liveCD, but you can probably change them at boot time via the GRUB menu
[18:01:58] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:02:07] <pfred1> SWPadnos so it'd be fair to say then that in most instances the live CD is fully functional but there may be some exceptions?
[18:02:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: People will be GRATEFUL for an unDEAD cd!
[18:02:47] <SWPadnos> well, it's fair to say that the LiveCD has a fully functional system. There's no guarantee that it's compatible with everyone's hardware by default
[18:02:57] <SWPadnos> how old is the hardware in quea\stion?
[18:03:00] <SWPadnos> -a\
[18:03:18] <Jymmm> I thought livecd was good for sim, but not for rtai
[18:03:24] <pfred1> pretty much what I wa driving at LinuxCNC is pretty hardware dependant
[18:03:43] <pfred1> Jymmm that is about as far as I'm comfortable evaluating it
[18:03:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: =)
[18:04:22] <pfred1> I mean I'm glad to hear it works for a lot of people but gray areas I find troublesome for a variety of reasons
[18:04:41] <Jymmm> I need to make a hot glue gun tip that's less than .125"
[18:04:52] <Jymmm> wide
[18:05:19] <pfred1> if it was me I'd probably drop lead in the old tip then drill it out
[18:05:46] <pfred1> why make new when modifying old wil do?
[18:06:05] <Jymmm> the OD has to be smaller than 1/8"
[18:06:10] <pfred1> hot glue guns don't get hot enough to melt solder do they?
[18:06:13] <Jymmm> O.D.
[18:06:23] <SWPadnos> pfred1, there is no guarantee that particular hardware will work with an RTAI-patched kernel
[18:06:40] <SWPadnos> that's even less of a guarantee when the hardware might be a year or two newer than said kernel
[18:06:48] <pfred1> SWPadnos that is the truth so if it is going to work then it will likely work live as well
[18:06:57] <Jymmm> pfred1: it's heat transfer I'm more concerned with than fabrication.
[18:07:01] <SWPadnos> probably, but not necessarily
[18:07:30] <Jymmm> bbiab
[18:07:46] <SWPadnos> I believe there have been some cases where an install from "stock" ubuntu and then an install of LinucCNC/RTAI worked, btu a direct install from the LiveCD didn't
[18:08:04] <SWPadnos> some drivers are probably newer that way, or something
[18:08:17] <pfred1> yeah even 10.04 is getting a bit crusty these days isn't it?
[18:08:22] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:08:36] <SWPadnos> hopefully, we'll have the manpower to make a 12.04-based CD, but who knows
[18:08:47] <pfred1> well I don't have that problem here the machine I run EMC on has a designed for Windows 98 sticker on the side of it
[18:08:54] <SWPadnos> not that the new Unity or Gnome Shell interfaces seem to be winning people over much :)
[18:09:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:09:18] <pfred1> hey I get latency of 18500 out of it
[18:09:24] <pfred1> its a hotrod!
[18:10:04] <SWPadnos> um, bigger isn't better there ;)
[18:10:34] <SWPadnos> though I have a Celeron 500 that used to get reasonable latencies (like 12-16000), but now seems to suck a bit
[18:10:35] <pfred1> well I can generate software steps faster than I need them to be
[18:10:48] <SWPadnos> that's what matters, isn't it?
[18:10:55] <pfred1> so far here for me
[18:11:15] <pfred1> I keep looking at them little atom machines
[18:18:29] <pfred1> SWPadnos if you guys ever want to switch to Debian I've a detailed notes file I've made of what I did to get it to work here
[18:18:50] <SWPadnos> ok, thanks
[18:18:59] <Tom_itx> nice
[18:19:15] <pfred1> just something I've trained myself to do long ago running Linux and trying to accomplish less than trivial tasks
[18:19:17] <SWPadnos> is that linked on the wiki (or maybe it should be on the wiki ...)
[18:19:18] <Tom_itx> maybe you should post it somewhere
[18:20:00] <pfred1> Tom_itx yeah it did sort of take me reading about a half a dozen other instructions to piece it all roether into something that worked for me
[18:20:39] <pfred1> some part of it are kind of vauge still like kernel configuration that is hard to write down
[18:21:15] <pfred1> every option I changed
[18:21:30] <pfred1> but the rest is command by command
[18:22:33] <pfred1> maybe i should slap it up on pastebin?
[18:22:57] <Tom_itx> or a wiki
[18:23:36] <pfred1> Tom_itx well it is personal notes so it'd need to be cleaned up before it was ready for mass consumption
[18:24:14] <pfred1> but it is a technique I developed to do complex tasks in Linux it works good for me
[18:24:47] <pfred1> I did a rough count earlier and there are about 100 discrete commands
[18:25:33] * pfred1 isn't good with remembering more than two or three things
[18:39:06] <Jymmm> pfred1: What is 1+1 and 2+2 or 3+3 ?
[18:39:20] <pfred1> Jymmm yes
[18:39:30] <Jymmm> pfred1: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
[18:39:54] <pfred1> Jymmm bash: no: command not found
[18:41:08] <skunkworks_> I just tried a 3ghz e-machine today. Right out of the box - it has 40,000+ latency. Went into the bios and turned off hyperthreading and one other thing.. (cannot remember) apci maybe.. and latency seemed to hover around 12000
[18:41:17] <skunkworks_> single core
[18:42:24] <Jymmm> pfred1: sudo umount *; sudo dd if=/dev/zero 0f=/dev/sda
[18:43:10] <pfred1> Jymmm I don't have any USB drives plugged in ATM
[18:43:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: none needed
[18:43:46] <pfred1> sorry charlie HDDs on hdX here
[18:44:10] * pfred1 is old skule
[18:45:02] <skunkworks_> pfred - you are the paul on the diy list - aren't you...
[18:45:30] <pfred1> skunkworks_ on Yahoo?
[18:45:33] <skunkworks_> yes
[18:45:44] <pfred1> pfrederick1 is my Yahoo ID
[18:45:51] <skunkworks_> yup
[18:46:07] <pfred1> they're cracked there but where aren't they?
[18:46:27] <skunkworks_> eh - nothing new
[18:46:38] <pfred1> there is a lot of misinformation and misconceptions floating about with linux
[18:47:31] <pfred1> none of it i believe is any good for it either people who claim it can leap tall buildings in a single bound and others who say it is pure drek
[18:47:45] <Valen> mesa should throw some $ at people to make a 12.04 cd ;->
[18:48:10] <pfred1> Valen don't burn a CD use a USB thumb drive
[18:48:19] <pfred1> then it won't cost you anything!
[18:48:25] <Valen> true enough
[18:48:39] <Valen> you still make an iso first generally then convert it to usb ;-P
[18:48:55] * pfred1 still has a BDI CD kicking around somewhere ...
[18:49:02] <Jymmm> Or create a VM from the ISO =)
[18:49:03] <Valen> everything is going to touch screens and touch user interface
[18:49:17] <Valen> witch is great, unless you need to use a computer for a few hours
[18:49:30] <pfred1> Valen one of my pet peeves is screen smudges
[18:49:38] <pfred1> man i just hate a smudged screen!
[18:50:15] * pfred1 has been known to freak out when they've seen others even move towards touching their screen
[18:50:39] * Jymmm eats an some hot wings and wipes his hands on pfred1's display.
[18:50:56] <Valen> what is it with females and poking the screen
[18:51:06] <pfred1> Jymmm you'd be taking all your nutrition throug ha straw after that stunt
[18:51:28] <Valen> tapping on plastic LCD screens with fingernails
[18:51:56] <pfred1> man what is it with the soft plastic LCD screens seem made of I cleaned mine and they seem to get scratched
[18:52:15] <Valen> i havent had that problem
[18:52:20] <Valen> i dust them off first
[18:52:33] <Valen> then clean very gently with a screen cleaning "kit"
[18:52:40] <pfred1> yeah I hit mine dry with a paper towel I didn't even press hard or anything
[18:52:54] <Valen> make sure that you don't use the edge of the cloth where the stitching is
[18:53:03] <Valen> you probably had dust on it
[18:53:21] <pfred1> well I was trying to remove the dust
[18:53:35] <pfred1> all I know is it has some scratches in it now
[18:53:49] <pfred1> though really I can't see them when the screen is on
[18:53:56] <pfred1> it still bothers me
[18:53:57] <Valen> the kit i got has a little fine bristled brush
[18:54:12] <pfred1> yeah I'm thinking about getting some kind of a soft duster
[18:54:31] <pfred1> but since it has happened I haven't been wiping it anymore
[18:54:48] <pfred1> now I've another I cleaned with some glass cleaner I didn't notice it get to oscratched
[19:34:11] <elmo40> poor guy. has to manually feed this huge beast of a machine... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFGksbhW5eA
[19:38:22] <Loetmichel_> better z than x ;-)
[19:41:51] <elmo40> he is cutting a weld prep. 45deg. that's z & x ;)
[19:43:51] <Loetmichel_> i meant: better the 2" (2,83") than the ~ 10 feet tube in lengh ;-)
[19:44:43] <Loetmichel_> but that would be done wit automatic feed i presume ;-)
[20:40:21] <Jymmm> ve7it: http://xkcd.com/180/
[21:12:47] <elmo40> http://xkcd.com/619/
[21:31:00] <Gensor2> Ello! Who is the mesa user on here?
[21:38:19] <Gensor2> Who here can help me design a power supply to support 3-4 servos that are 200v 2.2amp 200W power supply
[21:49:38] <clytle374> been waiting for 4 days for the rtai cvs server to come back up
[22:20:11] <A2Sheds> several mesa users here
[22:21:31] <A2Sheds> 200V x 2.2A = 440W
[22:22:12] <clytle374> A2Sheds, are you the one needing to build a PS?
[22:22:30] <A2Sheds> ^^ Gensor2
[22:23:01] <A2Sheds> ah b4 you came in: <Gensor2> Who here can help me design a power supply to support 3-4 servos that are 200v 2.2amp 200W power supply
[22:23:37] <clytle374> I glanced over the logs
[22:25:52] <clytle374> I've read over the mesa stuff a lot, but a complete noob as far as questions go.
[22:26:40] <clytle374> Now if a 170V PS is close enough, rectify 120AC USA power will do it
[22:27:56] <clytle374> Just a thought
[22:58:15] <clytle374> checking match between tk and Tkinter versions... TCL mismatch: 8.4 vs 8.5
[22:58:32] <clytle374> Easy fix in Ubuntu?
[23:00:41] <automata> hello,
[23:01:18] <automata> is there a way to connect a Hal param to a signal. Or rename a param
[23:02:27] <automata> I am using hostmot2 and I want to provide a pin for inverting the direction of an axis on the user interface...
[23:02:58] <automata> this can be done by writing to the gpio.0xx.invert-output param
[23:03:39] <automata> and I also want to display the params value on the interface
[23:30:35] <skunkworks_> I assume you cannot connect a paramater to a signal?
[23:30:46] <skunkworks_> (have not played with hal for a while...)
[23:32:13] <skunkworks_> what about making a M100/m101 that does a setp gpio.0xx.invert-output true/false. this could then be run by a couple of buttons.. (just thinking out loud)
[23:36:20] <psha[work]> skunkworks_: why not to connect buttons to this pin directly?
[23:36:48] <skunkworks_> can you? I though parameters could not be connected to nets.
[23:37:04] <skunkworks_> or is that something that can be done with glade widgets