#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-04

[01:31:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: Very interesting. I've always thought that we should not be a financial based society, and that recycling is bad, but reuse is good.
[01:31:55] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Lufa Powered? It exfoliates too? hawt damn!
[06:58:35] <pfred1> Jymmm you watched The Light Bulb Conspiracy? It is up with English subtitles too but it is in 4 parts. How about that IC in the printer?
[07:30:20] <JT-Shop> I have to (want to) make 4 of these chin bolts and I'm looking for suggestions for the head part http://imagebin.org/197236
[07:30:50] <JT-Shop> basically a 3/8 rod threaded on one end with the funny head on the other end
[07:31:33] <pfred1> if you need Chins get a Chinese phone book
[07:33:55] <pfred1> when I got my mill it didn't come with a 7/16s x 14 drawbar so I cut the threads off one and welded it to a piece of rod, it has held up remarkably well over the past 20 or so years
[07:34:13] <pfred1> better than I thought it would when I made it
[07:34:52] <jthornton> that's kinda what I thought I would do weld the preformed head to the rod
[07:35:18] <jthornton> it has to hold up to cannon fire :)
[07:35:26] <pfred1> let me put it this way I don't even think about it much anymore it is as if it was tapped into a solid piece of steel
[07:36:05] <pfred1> at one time all refined metal was molten
[07:36:41] <pfred1> I'd take a picture of my welded drawbar but it is in my mill holding in a 2 inch shell cutter
[07:37:13] <jthornton> no need, I understand
[07:37:42] <pfred1> if a weld is done well it is remarkably strong
[07:37:59] <pfred1> know what blows my mind worse though? when I braze together bandsaw blades
[07:38:11] <pfred1> and they break somewhere other than where i brazed them
[07:38:47] <pfred1> I do a double scarf joint when i do that lots of surface area
[07:39:21] <pfred1> well double beveled
[07:40:32] <pfred1> today I try to stay away from superglue techniques but sometimes it is the most intelligent option
[08:44:17] <Poincare> any hints on where to find an affordable hobby pcb router in EU (Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, ...)?
[08:45:13] <archivist> make it yourself
[08:45:47] <Poincare> archivist: well, one of my problems is that I have to many ongoing projects :-)
[08:46:39] <archivist> one more wont make much difference :)
[08:47:06] <jthornton> LOL
[08:47:15] <Poincare> it will if it's the key get other projects finished...
[08:48:04] <archivist> that just helps your priorities :)
[08:48:08] <Poincare> if you don't have a chicken or an egg, you'll have to buy one of them...
[08:49:30] <archivist> how much do you want to spend
[08:49:40] <Poincare> up to 1k euro
[08:54:25] <archivist> ebay item 170774849329 as a starting point
[08:56:42] <Poincare> how did you find that so fast...
[08:57:02] <Poincare> ow, collect only...
[08:58:16] <archivist> only down the road for me :)
[08:58:37] <archivist> which country are you
[08:59:10] <archivist> silly postage on 260922681710
[09:00:34] <Poincare> Belgium
[09:00:51] <Poincare> got a visitor brb
[09:33:53] <Poincare> archivist: did see the 260922681710 before...
[09:52:58] <archivist> Poincare, all the parts for "kit" from companies like Marchant Dice Ltd on ebay too
[09:56:10] <Jymmm> pfred1 English in only 1 part. Yeah, there are "reset chips" on ebay for toner cartridges for a few years now.
[09:56:13] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoHhwl27Hs4&feature=related
[11:35:43] <pcw_home> Jymmm must be a communist. how can you be against infinite growth?
[11:35:46] <pcw_home> the successful strategy of consumer societies and cancer tumors
[11:36:58] <Jymmm> pcw_home: But, financial growth != Infinite Growth =)
[11:38:40] <Jymmm> pcw_home: But you gotta admit, a nice 17x20 Glossy of a 16" caner tumor is pretty sexy
[11:38:59] <Tom_itx> in who's world?
[11:39:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: yours!
[11:39:16] <Tom_itx> nope not mine
[11:40:00] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Didn't you read the disclaimer on those AVR's? "Will cause cancer"
[11:40:13] <Tom_itx> no
[11:40:17] <Tom_itx> didn't 'click'
[11:40:21] <pcw_home> That clip reminded me of the story of stuff (which is a lot more preachy)
[11:41:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: and you thought you were just getting a pot belly, better go get an xray RADIATION exposure done =)
[11:42:08] <Tom_itx> the xray is more likely to introduce cancer cells
[11:43:09] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Someone invented a 100,000 Mile tire. Goodyear bought and squashed the patent on it. Some college created a car (from various off-the-shelf parts) that does 109 MPG back in the 80's, Some oil company bought and squashed that too.
[11:44:29] <pcw_home> I didnt know about the inkjet printer thing (cartridges yes)
[11:44:50] <Jymmm> Now, we have laws banning incadesent light bulbs, yet are given CFL's that have mercury, do NOT last 10 years, and now will go into our landfills.
[11:46:59] <pcw_home> CFLs supposedly are still a win due to the amount of mercury released from coal burning plants but
[11:47:01] <pcw_home> you would think they they could come up with something better
[11:47:09] <Jymmm> Kill someone, get 3-5yrs. Steal $50K you get 10-15yrs. WTF is up with that?!
[11:47:42] <Jymmm> pcw_home: They have, LED. But just costly as PG&E and the like are not sponsoring them.
[11:48:50] <pcw_home> yeah not really cost effective yet (though we have some new LED streetlights around here)
[11:49:50] <Jymmm> pcw_home: The CFL might eb a win if that actually lasted 10 years. but they barely last 9months in a typical household usage. (on/off just kills the life of them)
[11:50:15] <pcw_home> I think the replacement/service cost of the streetlight makes them cost effective
[11:50:42] <Jymmm> We do keep one CFL on 24/7, it has lasted 18 months.
[11:51:20] <Jymmm> pcw_home: As in street lighting, or signal (red/yel/grn) ?
[11:51:24] <pcw_home> we have many CFLs that are 5 or more years old but some dont even last 6 months
[11:51:50] <pcw_home> No regular white streetlight
[11:52:19] <Jymmm> Haven't seen that yet. SJ just turns off half the lights due to budget cuts instead.
[11:53:11] <pcw_home> wonder if any cars have LED headlights yet?
[11:53:29] <Jymmm> I think BMW, might
[11:54:17] <Jymmm> 85 doens't have street lights in certain parts of it. Iwas able to drive by my hand held LED flashlight and see across all four lanes.
[11:54:52] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: may be. but i think they will not be price-competive to Xenon until a few years from now.
[11:56:07] <Jymmm> PLANNED obsolescence bugs me.
[11:56:53] <Tom_itx> then you don't have to wonder when it will die
[11:57:09] <Jymmm> So did the eWaste dumping in Ghana. They could have shedded all that PVC and made into pellets for reuse
[11:57:55] <Tom_itx> is it right for a company i quit doing business with to buy the one i chose instead and take it over so i'm back to square one again?
[11:58:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: For buying or selling to?
[11:58:44] <Tom_itx> a service
[11:59:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: are you the consumer or provider?
[11:59:17] <Tom_itx> in this case consumer
[11:59:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It happens, and it sucks. Big Evil guy eats little Nice guy, you get screwed in the end.
[12:00:24] <Tom_itx> or move to the next one and wait to be eaten?
[12:01:02] <Jymmm> Or hope that Nice Guy gets to continue to play by their rules and not of Evil one.
[12:01:28] <Tom_itx> there was absolutely no notice given, just a local news announcement and it all happened within a week
[12:01:40] <Jymmm> I like/use tmobile, yet ATT wants to buy them. Fsck me.
[12:01:55] <Tom_itx> most would send out a letter
[12:03:14] <Jymmm> In a struggling economy, it's difficult to not consider generous offers.
[12:08:56] <Loetmichel> especially if t-mobile america is a business which writes negative winnings and telekom germany wants top sell it ;-)
[12:09:04] <Loetmichel> -p
[12:15:20] <pcw_home> " So did the eWaste dumping in Ghana. They could have shedded all that PVC and made into pellets for reuse"
[12:15:22] <pcw_home> without a requirement that things be built with recycling in mind is cheaper to just dump them and the environmental problems
[12:15:24] <pcw_home> on some poor country
[12:16:47] <Jymmm> I still think it be cheaper to shred it, than transport it around the world.
[12:17:24] <Jymmm> the thing that fubar's us is the EPA regulations.
[12:17:51] <Jymmm> Oh that has lead, OMG you have to this and this and this and this...
[12:18:11] <pcw_home> Look at how many working ewaste recyclers exist in country with any kind of environmental protection (0 maybe)
[12:19:43] <Jymmm> That's why a lot of mfg is done in China, no environmental regulations at all.
[12:19:56] <Jymmm> at least nothing like here.
[12:20:27] <pcw_home> if we didnt have the EPA every river would be toxic waste dump instead of only 1/2 or so :-)
[12:20:38] <Jymmm> lol
[12:21:36] <Jymmm> and thus why I carry a fire starter, can boil off all those 3 headed zombie viruses in the water!
[13:05:09] <Jymmm> Sigh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm_BCJN5jbc
[13:25:26] <pfred1> I think that is how i found that video to begin with sometimes I watch e-waste pr0n on YouTub
[13:25:54] * pfred1 loves junk electronics
[13:27:02] <pfred1> but not the new stuff with SMT so much my favorite is the commercial industrial stuff circa the early 80s
[13:27:30] <pfred1> that was the golden era of scrap electronics let me tell you
[14:32:11] <elmo40> kernel 3.x, they have a low-latency version? i booted into DreamStudio 11.04 and when Grub loads it says 3.0.0-9-lowlatency
[14:32:24] <elmo40> not sure if it is realtime or not.
[14:32:36] <elmo40> how would i check for that?
[14:33:24] <pfred1> I've never seen the stuff EMC uses in a mainstream kernel yet. Namely the RTAI extensions
[14:38:29] <archivist> elmo40, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=browse&id=Latency-Test&revision=84
[14:39:00] <pfred1> but I wonder if the newer kernels can net lower latency scores?
[14:39:18] <pfred1> can they be patched for RTAI?
[14:39:47] * pfred1 is always looking for a few more nanoseconds ...
[15:14:11] <elmo40> hrmm. so i cant even install emc2-sim on a newer OS (11.04) Depends on python < 2.7 but 2.7.1 will be installed
[15:14:30] <pfred1> change the kernel
[15:14:32] <elmo40> the .1 is that much different that emc2 cant use that version of py? i cant see that
[15:15:55] <pfred1> probably just need to create a link with a version number the script will recognize but if it isn't that easy yo ucan install another local copy and use it
[15:16:37] <elmo40> just wondering if i can just run the latency test, thats all
[15:16:38] <cradek> note that it says < 2.7, which is how you spell 2.6.x
[15:16:46] <cradek> so it's not a difference of 2.7 vs 2.7.1 at all
[15:16:47] <pfred1> I've had to do it with librarries multiple times
[15:16:49] <elmo40> ya, got that now ;) took too many seconds
[15:17:26] <pfred1> then you can still install a different local version
[15:18:13] <elmo40> is there an rt-tests in your repo?
[15:18:36] <elmo40> ...'tests and measures various real-time components...'
[15:19:06] <elmo40> ah, lol, when i apt-get it they want to install 2.6.38-13 :-P
[15:19:19] <elmo40> i dont think this kernel is real time, only low latency.
[16:13:21] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFdNbaBq760
[16:16:25] <pfred1> http://www.delorie.com/wood/DrillGuide.html <-- I made this
[16:20:03] <jdhNC> it's lovely.
[16:20:34] <pfred1> jdhNC well, he did reformat it a little from my original
[16:20:53] <pfred1> but i made the original table and gave it to him
[16:22:28] * pfred1 thinks it is cool he hosts it but ther isn't a link to it from the rest of his website ...
[16:24:49] <pfred1> I copied it off a hand out chart we got off our steel supplier when I worked in a machine shop I wore out my original I still have it kicking around though
[16:25:29] <pfred1> is this neat plastic thing
[16:26:20] <pfred1> it was funny when my shop foreman gave it to me he said, I now present you with the magic key ...
[16:26:41] <pfred1> he was right it's awesome
[16:55:53] <skunkworks> pfred1: what do you mean?
[16:56:08] <pfred1> skunkworks about the magic key?
[16:56:22] <elmo40> there is no 0.010" drill?
[16:56:33] <skunkworks> oh - I see - he has other charts but not that one
[16:56:41] <elmo40> i guess 0.0098 is close enough ;)
[16:57:10] <pfred1> skunkworks oh about no link in his site yeah that was why I sent it to him I thought his other charts weren't all that comprehensive really
[16:57:46] <pfred1> elmo40 you can get any drill size custom made but there are only a fixed number of "standard" industrial sizes
[16:58:21] <pfred1> so called off the shelf tools
[18:57:28] <Gast468> Hello, I'm new to LinuxCNC and am trying to integrate LinuxCNC on a couple unique systems. Can I recieve technical help on this forum?
[18:57:46] <pfred1> Gast468 not unless you ask specific quesitons
[18:57:49] <jdhNC> ask and ye might receive.
[18:58:15] <Jymmmm> Gast468: Go ahead and ask, if someone can help they will. Though many aren't here right now it seems.
[18:58:37] <pfred1> Gast468 also there is a forum at the website where more detailed help may be available
[18:58:57] <Jymmmm> ok, NOW everyone comes out of the metalwork.
[18:59:28] <jarray52> Gast468: I'm interested in hearing responses to your questions. Ask away.
[18:59:43] <pfred1> I think we terrified them
[18:59:52] <Gast468> Thanks, I will try to do my best at being specific as possible. First, I want to use LinuxCNC on a new Coordinate Measuring Machine(CMM) the CMM contact sensor requires a usb interface. Does anyone know of USB periphreals being supported by LinuxCNC?
[18:59:56] <Jymmmm> pfred1: Not WE, jdhNC.
[19:01:00] <jdhNC> geez :)
[19:01:15] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: Hey, if the dunce cap fits...
[19:01:29] <jdhNC> but, it looks so good on you!
[19:01:46] <pfred1> Gast468 EMC being a real time control system doesn't really do USB or rather USB doesn't do real time
[19:01:50] * Tom_itx sticks a road construction cone on Jymmmm's head
[19:02:00] <jdhNC> you don't need RT for a CMM
[19:02:01] <Jymmmm> Tom_itx: Only if I'm drunk
[19:02:12] <pfred1> jdhNC but this is EMC
[19:03:24] <pfred1> the USB question does come up a lot though
[19:03:27] <Gast468> hmmm, to specific?
[19:03:27] <Gast468> to vague?
[19:03:27] <Gast468> Is this chat primarily used by LinuxCNC developers or users? Are most of the users developers?
[19:03:33] <Jymmmm> Gast468: does this sensor require drivers, or is it a generic serial device?
[19:06:28] <pfred1> Gast468 this channel is open to anyone interested in Linuxcnc some users some developers some just wandering by
[19:06:56] <Jymmmm> that later being jdhNC and his fancy dunce cap.
[19:07:13] * jdhNC waves.
[19:07:14] <Gast468> Yes, I am aware of how USB is not real time, However, the USB support that I require does not need to be in real time. However, the machine control of the CMM -- which is identical to a vertical 3 axis mill -- does require real time machine control. The sensor does require drivers it came with a couple .dll libraries that I want to integrate into LinuxCNC.
[19:07:29] <jarray52> Will machines such as www.ebay.com/itm/250986650037 , this www.ebay.com/itm/17-7-X-12-2-Y-Bridgeport-Discovery-308-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-DX-32-Contro-/400273055720 , or this http://www.ebay.com/itm/300561664775 work with Linux CNC?
[19:08:25] <Jymmmm> Gast468: You don't have source code? Or linux based drivers? You sure it's not just a FTDI usb-to-ttl chipset in it?
[19:08:42] <jdhNC> sounds nifty. How does the probe know where it is? Relative to the current x/y/z?
[19:08:57] <pfred1> jdhNC why would it care?
[19:09:13] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: (It takes off it's dunce cap and looks around. DUH)
[19:09:48] <pfred1> I'd think all the probe would be would be an output device
[19:10:08] <jdhNC> dunno, I've only used one and the probe was on an articulated arm
[19:10:29] <pfred1> but wouldn't the arm keep track of location?
[19:10:47] <Gast468> thanks pfredl!
[19:11:43] <jdhNC> perhaps. The one we had would move the arm base.
[19:13:53] <pfred1> Gast468 touch off probes are common to use with EMC
[19:14:18] <pfred1> not sure if that informaiton helps you any but I just figured I'd throw it out here
[19:15:44] <Jymmmm> Heh, I'd cut off the usb part, and just use the analog part =)
[19:16:01] <jarray52> Has anyone managed to get a machining center to work with Linux CNC?
[19:16:27] <jdhNC> the one we had ran a DOS app... it was old but the probe was pretty nifty.
[19:16:49] <Gast468> No, I do not have the source code for the contact sensor. It's good to know that touch off probes are common with EMC. specifically the one I am using is a proprietary high resolution sensor that in order for it to begin taking readings. I can use analog! does emc support analog signals?
[19:17:00] <jdhNC> jarray52: there are people running VMC's with LinuxCNC
[19:17:14] <Gast468> **In order for it to begin taking readins it must recieve a command over USB
[19:17:39] <jarray52> jdhNC: VMC=Vertical Milling Center or VMC=Vertical Machining Center?
[19:17:53] <Jymmmm> Gast468: Do you have the make/model of this probe?
[19:18:15] <Gast468> wwwkeyence
[19:18:58] <Jymmmm> and model# ?
[19:19:01] <pfred1> if you can convice HAL that your probe is a keyboard, mouse, or joystick it should work just fine :)
[19:19:56] <jdhNC> milling, I don't know about machining centers.
[19:20:21] * pfred1 doesn't know what a machining center is
[19:20:34] <jdhNC> a mill with more stuff
[19:20:48] <Jymmmm> pfred1: a mill in a box
[19:20:51] <jdhNC> how about this: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg
[19:20:52] <pfred1> I've seen some mills with quite a bit of "stuff" attached to them
[19:20:54] <Gast468> The sensor can be seen here: http://www.keyence.com/products/measure/laser/lkg5000/lkg5000.php I misspoke early when I said contact sensor techinically it is non contact but the principle is the same
[19:21:42] <pfred1> jdhNC that looks like just a mill to me
[19:22:07] <Jymmmm> Ah hell, you have to login to get the manual. such a pita !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:22:25] <jdhNC> I have a login if you really want it.
[19:22:33] <jarray52> jdhNC: Does that run on Linux CNC? Does that have an ATC?
[19:22:35] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: Nope, but thanks
[19:22:59] <pfred1> it being cradek's I can't imagine it runs anything but
[19:23:01] <jdhNC> you would have to ask cradek what all it does, but it seems to have an ATC (on left)
[19:23:05] <pfred1> didn't cradek write Axis?
[19:23:19] <jdhNC> I think there is a youtube video of it changing tools among other things
[19:23:22] <Jymmmm> cradek: and jeplerwrote ZXIS iirc
[19:23:27] <Jymmmm> AXIS even =)
[19:24:27] * Jymmmm got two empty 20# propane tanks for $20 =)
[19:24:53] <jarray52> jdhNC: I noticed the ATC on the left. That is a lot of tools. Just wondering if that was automatic or manual.
[19:24:55] <pfred1> Jymmmm it is going to be hot soon
[19:25:04] <jarray52> jdhNC: What hardware controls the ATC?
[19:25:26] <jdhNC> you would have to ask cradek.
[19:25:49] <jarray52> pfred1: Machining center= Mill in a box with an automatic tool changer and automatic coolant sprayer.
[19:25:50] <Jymmmm> pfred1: It's all good, guess I could use them for BBQ, thogugh I use charcoal. I do have a hose to connect to any device that owuld normally use a 1# tank though
[19:26:08] <pfred1> jarray52 EMC can handle any and all of that
[19:26:47] <Gast468> so does anyone know if EMC has USB support or has had USB periphreals added?
[19:26:53] <jarray52> pfred1: To get these to work, one just has to rip out the old electronics and replace with supported electronics?
[19:27:26] <pfred1> Gast468 Linux can handle USB and EMC runs on Linux
[19:27:51] <pfred1> so if you've a USB mouse or keyboard and are running EMC you are using USB with EMC
[19:27:55] <Jymmmm> pfred1: I'm not sure about USB SENSORS though, it requires a driver and a login to access any damn info about it.
[19:28:22] <pfred1> and HAL is taking inputs from it too
[19:28:27] <Jymmmm> pfred1: But THOSE USB devices are handled by the OS, not EMC directly.
[19:28:46] <pfred1> Jymmmm you can feed HAL the events
[19:29:04] <Jymmmm> Gast468: If you have a linux driver for it, then you should be able to, but I doubt for RealTime.
[19:29:35] <pfred1> Jymmmm there is real, then there is real enough :)
[19:29:59] * Jymmmm smacks pfred1 with a clue-by-four... you know what I mean!
[19:30:50] <pfred1> it is a sensor i suppose it dependso n how they plan on using it but so far I don't see any reason it wouldn't work
[19:31:26] <Jymmmm> *IF* they have linux driver for it.
[19:32:04] <Gast468> understood, thanks for the help. Yes I do not need the sensor to be in real time. All i need is real enough as pfred1 puts it. I may have to play with the source code for EMC some more. What my end goal is to be able to make a custom G-code command that I can have EMC execute and that would trigger the sensor to start. (again realtime for the sensor isnt necessary, just real enough time)
[19:32:30] <pfred1> thing would probably show up as a mouse or something probably what it is if you took it apart :)
[19:32:40] <Jymmmm> pfred1: It's an OPTICAL non-contact sensor.
[19:32:53] <pfred1> what do you think optical mice are?
[19:32:56] <Gast468> unfortunately I can't take anything apart as it is very expensive.
[19:33:04] <Jymmmm> pfred1: He needs to send a command to it for it to beign measuring
[19:33:17] <Jymmmm> begin
[19:33:24] <pfred1> optical mice take a photograph of the surface they are on and compare it to a previous image they've taken
[19:33:26] <Gast468> yes that is exactly what I am looking for
[19:33:48] <Jymmmm> pfred1: But mice dont require a command to be sent to them.
[19:34:14] <Gast468> not the optical mouse part but the part of sending a command to the sensor so it starts measuring
[19:34:18] <pfred1> Jymmmm your mouse has moved. Please reboot Windows for the changes to take effect!
[19:35:02] * Jymmmm grabs a BIGGER clue-by-four to smack pfred1 with!
[19:35:13] <ENG> hello everyone I am tryng to setup a mill with EMC. I am confused as to what exactly i need to do to configure a new machine from scratch. Where do I start? I have EMC and its manuals but I dont know how I make an EMC machine custom for my application.
[19:35:14] <pfred1> if it was me I'd plug it in and see what happens
[19:35:40] <Jymmmm> pfred1: His sensor is BI-DIRECTIONAL communication, a mouse is one-way.
[19:36:01] <jdhNC> I have 30+ keyence laser sensors at work, none use USB though... they generally do serial and analog output
[19:36:01] <pfred1> on its bi well excuse me!
[19:36:27] <Jymmmm> Gast468: Can you exchange it for analog/serial instead of USB?
[19:36:27] <pfred1> Jymmmm it could just be a phase it is going through while it is discovering itself
[19:37:05] <Jymmmm> pfred1: You asshole! PHUK YOU AND THE MOUSE YOU RODE IN ON! LOL
[19:37:19] <Gast468> jdhNC specifically the controller for the sensor I have is capable of analog output but I need to send a commmand for it to start taking measurements and the only way to do so is over RS-232 or USB
[19:37:35] <Jymmmm> Gast468: 232 works!!!
[19:37:36] <pfred1> cat /dev/usb
[19:37:44] <jdhNC> serial is pretty trivial
[19:37:52] <Gast468> WOOOO thank you JYMMM!
[19:37:57] <Jymmmm> Gast468: Serial, no problem for emc
[19:38:16] <pfred1> you'd still need to intrepret the data stream
[19:38:31] <Jymmmm> Gast468: you could probably do RT using serial too, if needed.
[19:39:16] * Jymmmm gives pfred1 a wedgy just because!
[19:39:16] <Gast468> I think I can handle the data steam part on a seperate custom program. Can anyone point me in the right direction of adding serial communication to emc?
[19:39:26] <pfred1> Gast468 on the plus side EMC comes with a double your money back guarantee that it'll work for you
[19:39:48] <pfred1> of course the initial purchase price is $0
[19:40:34] <pfred1> can you run EMC live off a USB key?
[19:41:12] <Gast468> yes you can use a USB keyboard I am now.
[19:41:32] <pfred1> Gast468 some Linux distributions will run just in memory
[19:41:53] <pfred1> as in you do not have to install it or write to your hard drive at all
[19:41:58] <Jymmmm> Gast468: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModIO
[19:42:22] <pfred1> EMC isn't a Linux distro per se but linuxcnc sort of is
[19:42:43] <pfred1> and there is a CD image of it that is basically drop it in and go
[19:42:46] <Jymmmm> Gast468: Just FYI... "Many PCs have a common, easy-to-program chip for RS232 serial interfaces, the 16550 FIFO. However, the top speed is 115200baud. In 200us, only 16 usable bits can be transmitted in each direction (10 bit times per character, 2 characters = 173uS), which is not enough to send DAC commands and retrieve position feedback for multiple axes. " http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign#RS232_Serial
[19:43:11] <Jymmmm> Gast468: that last part being RT stuff.
[19:43:17] <pfred1> Jymmmm FYI the 16550 has been emulated for about 20 years now in other hardware
[19:43:44] <Jymmmm> UART BABY! Screw Emu!
[19:43:55] <pfred1> it is built into your north or south bridge or whatever mobo IC set you have
[19:44:52] <Jymmmm> Well, that's not really emulation (like AVRs with USB emulation), that's just built-in.
[19:45:12] <pfred1> I doubt they recreated it transistor for transistor
[19:45:40] <pfred1> though someone may have at some point
[19:45:41] <Jymmmm> pfred1: Well when you get an electron microscope, PROVE ME WRONG!!!
[19:45:55] <Jymmmm> or PROVE ME RIGHT, I dont care =)
[19:46:10] <pfred1> there is a guy in Japan wthat makes an IC that is an entire 386 PC on a chip
[19:46:31] <Jymmmm> Heh, that's nothng
[19:46:45] <pfred1> would be something if you could go back in time with it
[19:48:14] <Jymmmm> pfred1: http://www.logicpd.com/products/system-on-modules/dm3730-torpedo-wireless-som/
[19:48:18] <jdhNC> all the keyence sensors I've used let you set parameters via serial, but once it was configured as needed, it would spit out analog on powerup. There is a mode to have query distance a single time, or to have it spew it out constantly.
[19:48:27] <pfred1> Jymmmm the point i was trying to make eariler is the hardware that passes for a 16650 today won't always exactly mirror all the limitations of the original hardware
[19:48:31] <Jymmmm> pfred1: And you can install OFF-THE-SHELF ubuntu on it too
[19:49:09] <pfred1> in some cases it'd be more difficult to do so
[19:49:10] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: Cool, send me a couple =)
[19:49:24] <jdhNC> they are not cheap!
[19:49:34] <pfred1> jdhNC everyone loves money
[19:49:43] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: no problem, just bill the makreting dept =)
[19:49:52] <pfred1> they might in fact be cheap but they're not inexpensive
[19:50:02] <jdhNC> and when they break, we have to throw them away since they get contaminated and can't leave the area.
[19:50:24] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: contaminated with???
[19:50:33] <jdhNC> uranium
[19:50:33] <pfred1> Jymmmm kooties
[19:50:51] <Jymmmm> pfred1: NO KOOTY SHOT FOR YOU!
[19:51:10] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: GITD?
[19:51:24] <jdhNC> XCB2?
[19:51:42] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: Glow-In-the-Dark?
[19:52:11] <jdhNC> heh.. nope, if anything ever starts glowing you'll read about it.
[19:52:13] <pfred1> until the Gulf wars i had no idea there was so much depleted uraninum around
[19:52:32] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: Actual uranium, or like Cesium 137?
[19:52:57] <pfred1> we used something like 23 tons of the stuff in the first conflict
[19:53:17] <pfred1> that has to be a lotta bullets
[19:53:39] <jdhNC> uranium, we use cesium for sources to measure stuff though
[19:54:02] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: Yeah? got any 20y half life chucks?
[19:54:08] <Jymmmm> chunks
[19:54:50] <jdhNC> cesium is more like 30 years
[19:55:06] <pfred1> go right ahead and hide behind that solid 8 inch thick concrete wall we'll shoot you anyways!
[19:55:11] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: For this http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/hardware3.html
[19:56:29] <jdhNC> that's not a chunk, it is minicule
[19:56:45] <Jymmmm> jdhNC: Ok, got even spare?
[19:56:47] <jdhNC> get some thoriated TIG electrodes
[19:56:48] <Jymmmm> any
[19:57:03] <pfred1> I have some of those
[19:57:27] <pfred1> 2%
[19:57:46] <Jymmmm> $20! Forget it =)
[19:58:21] <pfred1> I bought a whole box i forget what I paid for them they weren't cheap though
[19:58:57] <Jymmmm> pfred1: Full system on module WITH 802.11 wifi http://www.logicpd.com/assets/products/DM3730_Tor_Wireless_wDime.jpg
[20:00:20] <pfred1> I want one of these but so far they've proved to be vaporware http://www.raspberrypi.org/
[20:01:59] <pfred1> I think if they ever come out they won't hit their target price
[20:44:43] <clytle374> This Ubuntu kernel install is UGLY. where does Ubuntu keep the update files?
[20:44:53] <clytle374> You know... For after I break it.
[20:59:57] <clytle374> I never thought how long it would take to turn all the device options off if they were all on by default
[21:06:33] <pfred1> clytle374 you mean config in /boot?
[21:08:19] <clytle374> Yes, as far as everything being turned on.
[21:08:44] <pfred1> clytle374 be smart and install the kernel the debian way that way it goes in and comes out easily
[21:08:53] <pfred1> as in package it up
[21:09:12] <clytle374> the ugly is all the debian/rules commands that I have no idea what they do
[21:09:33] <clytle374> the kernel should only go one place... as in 1 file?
[21:09:37] <pfred1> I'll get you the commands that do it it is only like 2 or 3 makes changing the kernel easier
[21:09:48] <pfred1> let me access my notes files sec
[21:10:49] <pfred1> clytle374 OK fakeroot make-kpkg clean
[21:10:57] <pfred1> then configure it
[21:10:58] <clytle374> are you saying that it won't jsut make a bzimage, initrd, and modules in the correct directory?
[21:11:38] <pfred1> yeah that sucks do it the debian way it pays off and is actually easier
[21:12:05] <pfred1> that wya if yo uwant to ditch it it is just oen command
[21:12:22] <pfred1> clytle374 how many cores is your CPU?
[21:12:51] <clytle374> 2
[21:13:04] <pfred1> I've built a bunch of kernels the old way and the debian way and I much prefer the debian method
[21:13:12] <pfred1> OK then export CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=2
[21:13:20] <pfred1> makes your kernel compile twice as fast ;)
[21:13:47] <clytle374> because that's easier than make -j2 or -j3?
[21:13:47] <pfred1> then you're going to have to edit this command but this is an example time fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd --revision=3:giga.1.1 kernel_image
[21:14:07] <pfred1> you're not going to do a make command
[21:14:12] <pfred1> that last one was it
[21:14:28] <pfred1> then just install the deb packages it makes
[21:14:39] <clytle374> I see no reason to use an initrd on a custom kernel
[21:15:01] <pfred1> some stuff doesn't work monolithic in the kernel but suit yourself
[21:15:34] <pfred1> like some software expects some drivers to be modules so they can load and unload them
[21:16:10] <clytle374> I'm not talking about buidling everything in, but all you use in initrd is the stuff to boot
[21:16:26] <pfred1> whatever it works and works well
[21:16:58] <clytle374> but, I've never had something choke built in, and not one computer here has a module in it
[21:17:04] <pfred1> that is it for the debian way except for running dpkg -i on the packages it makes
[21:17:11] <pfred1> it'll do everything else for you
[21:17:43] <pfred1> makes it a lot easier for me to make changes and keep track of everything
[21:18:05] <pfred1> because you can uninstall them or make miner version revisions etc
[21:18:10] <pfred1> minor even
[21:18:33] <pfred1> you don't have to stomp on your known good kernel either
[21:18:44] <clytle374> ?
[21:18:50] <pfred1> overwrite it
[21:18:59] <clytle374> why would I ever do that?
[21:19:12] <pfred1> no matter what happens you'll have a usable system suit yourself do it the dumb old way see what i care
[21:19:52] <clytle374> I just don't understand what you are saying. I don't need to ever over write a kernel to install a new one
[21:19:54] * pfred1 ain't going back
[21:20:55] <clytle374> I'm glad you like it... But all you might need in initrd is 3 modules.. No more
[21:21:21] <clytle374> drive interface, files system, ?
[21:22:32] <clytle374> make modules_install handles the versioning
[21:23:07] <clytle374> and one or two other files? Not sure what the package manager does.. Unless you are distributing it
[21:23:12] <pfred1> when you install the deb packages it runs grub installs the modules everything
[21:24:21] <pfred1> but you're dead set against it so do it the old fashioned way
[21:25:40] <pfred1> also if you package it then updating the system dpkg honors your kernel
[21:25:58] <pfred1> like if it is a newer version it stays on top etc.
[21:26:38] <pfred1> was just a suggestion forget I mentioned it
[21:27:08] <clytle374> not trying to be rude... But the how to makes it look really ugly
[21:28:00] <pfred1> I find it a lot simpler and more straightforward than the manual method
[21:28:15] <clytle374> I guess the gentoo build system might seem the same to an outsider. But it leaves the kernel alone and only manages the kernel sources
[21:28:48] <pfred1> I've been running Linux since 1995 but never have run Gentoo yet
[21:29:51] <pfred1> if i can help it I'd rather not compile source code packages today but sometimes it is unavoidable
[21:29:58] <clytle374> I build and install a kernel in one line. make -jX ; make modules_install ; cp arch/x86/boot/bzImage /boot/kernel-new ; reboot
[21:30:03] * pfred1 got tired of that years ago
[21:30:29] <pfred1> OK how do you delete it?
[21:30:46] <clytle374> rm /boot/kernel-old
[21:31:06] <clytle374> mv /boot/kernel-new /boot/kernel-old
[21:31:59] <clytle374> no initrd image
[21:33:17] <clytle374> other than that the emerge system handles all the building
[21:33:28] <pfred1> what emerge system?
[21:33:41] <clytle374> it's called emerge
[21:34:01] <clytle374> works with portage that handles the dependences
[21:34:12] <pfred1> $ which emerge returned an empty string for me
[21:34:37] <clytle374> like I do emerge firefox
[21:34:53] <clytle374> it builds firefox and anything needed for it.. all from source
[21:34:55] <pfred1> bash: emerge: command not found
[21:35:12] <clytle374> I thought you never use gentoo?
[21:35:20] <pfred1> you thought right
[21:35:32] <clytle374> then you don't have emerge
[21:35:49] <pfred1> clytle374 I thought you said you were on Ubuntu
[21:36:06] <clytle374> I am, that's why I'm hating life right now ;)
[21:36:16] <pfred1> that is why I run EMC on Debian
[21:36:34] <pfred1> you could run it on gentoo I'd imagine
[21:37:04] <clytle374> didn't happen.. I'm trying precise to try and narrow the problem down
[21:37:21] <pfred1> I compiled it all from source
[21:37:30] <clytle374> It builds and passes the test.. But the watchdog keeps biting.
[21:38:04] <clytle374> latency test was great.. rtai passed all its tests. lpt configs ran
[21:38:08] <clytle374> but hm2 died
[21:38:14] <pfred1> only problem I had was with my GL libraries and that is just because i ue a really old PC to run it on
[21:38:37] <pfred1> so I just tkems and it flies
[21:38:43] <pfred1> tkemc even
[21:38:59] <pfred1> when I get a new PC I'll try Axis again
[21:39:58] <clytle374> emc and rtai seem to be very easy builds, just never figured out what was going wrong.
[21:40:12] <clytle374> not sure if it was the kernel or rtai or emc
[21:40:28] <pfred1> I used the kernel version RTAI said to patch against
[21:40:41] <clytle374> which one?
[21:40:45] <pfred1> 2.6.30 or something
[21:41:05] <clytle374> I couldn't build that far back. headers I think
[21:41:21] <clytle374> I tried downgrading glibc... that was the end
[21:41:28] <pfred1> that was actually newer than the kernels offered for the version I installed on
[21:41:44] <pfred1> heh yeah messing with glibc can be a bit tricky
[21:42:02] <clytle374> you can't get around it on gentoo... no way
[21:42:08] <pfred1> once i got a libc5 based system to parallel run glibc2
[21:42:28] <pfred1> let's just say the third time wasn't exactly a charm doing that though
[21:42:44] <pfred1> more like the 33rd try
[21:42:51] <clytle374> gentoo had those days... the switch was ugly
[21:43:08] <pfred1> gentoo wasn't even around before all distros switched to glibc2
[21:43:14] <pfred1> that was like in 1997
[21:43:47] <pfred1> I think I did it on slackware 3.4
[21:44:10] * pfred1 wanted to see KDE 0.14
[21:44:36] <pfred1> and there was no way I was gonna run that Redhat stuff!
[21:44:46] <clytle374> um, that wasn't what I was thinking of.. it was the threads change
[21:45:30] <pfred1> then RH 7.1 came out and I ran Redhat ;)
[21:45:50] <clytle374> I started on 6.1
[21:46:09] <pfred1> Rh 7.3 was probably the best Linux distro of all time
[21:46:29] <jdhNC> I have a box full of SLS floppies
[21:46:30] <pfred1> back then everyone and their dog ran RH
[21:46:53] <pfred1> jdhNC SLS was before my time
[21:47:13] <clytle374> never heard of it
[21:47:29] <pfred1> was what slack is based on
[21:47:56] <pfred1> then there is ydgryssil (sp)
[21:48:03] <jdhNC> snackware came after SLS
[21:48:03] <pfred1> or I should say was
[21:48:24] <jdhNC> I think I have SW floppies too.
[21:48:33] <pfred1> yeah SLS quit being developed so pat forked it
[21:48:47] <jdhNC> I spent days downloading SLS off a BBS
[21:49:02] <pfred1> early on I bought walnut creek CDs
[21:49:22] <pfred1> I think slack 3.4 was the first Linux distro I ever downloaded
[21:49:28] <pfred1> it only took me 3 days
[21:49:37] <pfred1> all 128 MB of it
[21:49:53] <pfred1> took me a day to figure out ftp -i
[21:49:58] <clytle374> that's worse than my internet ;)
[21:50:11] <pfred1> hey I was getting 48 kb/s
[21:50:16] <pfred1> on my modem
[21:51:09] <pfred1> until I figured out ftp -i I had to sit there and pick each file and I'd forget some and my connection would time out etc
[21:51:33] <pfred1> once I figured out the non interactive switch things moved right along for me
[21:52:17] <pfred1> but that was a thrill to run an OS I totally downloaded off the net today no one even thinks anything of it
[21:52:43] <jdhNC> I thought it was pretty damned cool to be able to run X
[21:52:49] <pfred1> just fire up unetbootin and in a few minutes bingo
[21:53:27] <pfred1> jdhNC I was a Windows refugee but I thought it was pretty damned cool not to crash
[21:54:38] <pfred1> though when I ran a permedia card i got hit with the X Window bug it had for a bit and i had to patch X and rebuild it
[21:54:52] <pfred1> that only took my machine 4 hours to do
[21:55:19] <pfred1> someone forgot to put an 0x in front of a hex number in the code
[21:55:44] <pfred1> it made your system clock whack out when you ran X
[21:56:32] <pfred1> I think i was running an MMX 200 CPU then
[21:58:11] <pfred1> I kind of get why Linux never caught on but I still don't see how people put up with closed source OSes
[21:58:38] <clytle374> One reason... I come with the computer
[21:58:46] <clytle374> it comes
[21:58:55] <pfred1> yeah I got Windows for "free" wit hthe machine
[21:59:16] <pfred1> today that "free" copy of Windows is no small part of the total purchase price
[21:59:33] <pfred1> easy 25%
[22:00:15] <pfred1> Linux has come a long way though as far as installing it goes you can literally drop a CD in and go now
[22:01:00] <pfred1> I don't know how much easier it can be made
[22:01:13] <jdhNC> pre-installed
[22:01:28] <pfred1> jdhNC I was thinking we might have to go door to door or something
[22:01:48] <pfred1> here let me hit the eject button on yoru drive for you ...
[22:02:23] <jdhNC> cool... can you wire up my steppers and limit switches too?
[22:03:51] <pfred1> today I look at it like the less people who run Linux the faster the mirror is that I use
[22:04:57] <pfred1> Windows users should thank Linux too because I believe that the only reason Microsoft cleaned up their act is because of the pressure Linux put on it to be more stable
[22:08:05] <clytle374> yep, kernel build taking forever
[22:09:01] <pfred1> if I pare it down some my i3 builds a kernel in about 15 minutes
[22:09:27] <clytle374> 1st build?
[22:09:33] <pfred1> clean
[22:10:04] <clytle374> should have spent more time removing stuff. plus 2 core atom
[22:10:20] <clytle374> I should be asleep, but in too much pain to sleep
[22:10:24] <pfred1> yeah it can take some time to fully configure a kernel
[22:10:52] <clytle374> everything on by default sucks
[22:10:53] <pfred1> there are almost 1600 options in the last one i looked at
[22:11:04] <pfred1> 1579 if memory serves me
[22:11:30] <pfred1> make allnoconfig strips everything out
[22:11:39] <clytle374> so where does deb put the kernel headers by default?
[22:12:20] <pfred1> there is another make command that builds everything too
[22:12:48] <clytle374> yeah, but where do they go at install?
[22:12:58] <pfred1> I'm not even sure if a makeallnoconfig would even boot though
[22:13:22] <clytle374> surely not
[22:13:41] <clytle374> I know what needs to be on to boot my machines
[22:16:49] <clytle374> So are the headers gnu headers or are they the ones needed to build modules?
[22:17:29] <pfred1> I sort of remember something about kernel headers but I forget exactly what right now
[22:17:41] <pfred1> something like kernel headers are separate from system headers
[22:17:55] <clytle374> I've wondered if the headers weren't the problem in gentoo.
[22:18:12] <pfred1> yeah kernel needs to build against it's own headers not system headers
[22:18:33] <pfred1> because kernel headers are in flux and system headers are supposed to be of a more static nature
[22:18:35] <clytle374> gentoo switched over to putting them in /usr/include/linux then the headers are in the source for modules
[22:19:30] <pfred1> I forget exactly how it all works the kernel headers may in fact be a separate package though
[22:19:50] <pfred1> I'm not on a box where I've ubilt a kernel so I'm not sure
[22:19:58] <pfred1> this one runs a canned kernel
[22:20:04] <clytle374> I know the Linus way in Linux-headers in /usr/include
[22:20:51] <pfred1> it really wasn't until I started running EMC that I built kernels for a long time it just got too confusing all the options
[22:21:38] <clytle374> one out of 5-6 throws a change that takes a few minutes to sort out
[22:21:43] <pfred1> well that and I did run one distro for 8 years straight that sort of got me out of monkeying around so much
[22:22:30] <pfred1> if that motherboard didn't burn out I'd probably still be running it so godo thing it died on me
[22:22:41] <clytle374> I've ran gentoo for about 8 years. switched to Ubuntu of a year.. Then 2 years ago started with emc
[22:22:56] <pfred1> the same version?
[22:22:59] <clytle374> And not having a toolchain made me switch back
[22:23:02] <pfred1> I mean I set it up and just ran it
[22:23:10] <clytle374> gentoo doesn't have versions
[22:23:22] <pfred1> heck for a while i wasn't even online wiht it
[22:23:45] <pfred1> what I'm saying is after a few years I didn't even update it
[22:24:22] <pfred1> thing ran until half the caps on the motherboard let go
[22:24:40] <pfred1> then I popped that HDD out stuck it into another box i made and it stil lran
[22:24:51] <clytle374> yeah, until hardware fails
[22:25:01] <pfred1> just didn't run very good and by then I couldn't update it
[22:25:30] <pfred1> I was kind of mad at suse not offering a very good upgrade path
[22:26:04] <pfred1> but I guess after 8 years you kind of have to expect to be sort of left out in the cold a bit
[22:26:18] <clytle374> 2 years will break most any upgrade path
[22:26:40] <pfred1> yeah that was how I looked at it I still decided to run something else htough
[22:26:48] <pfred1> which at the time was Ubuntu
[22:27:10] <pfred1> say what you will about Ubuntu out of the box the stuff is pretty slick
[22:27:24] <clytle374> it work
[22:27:26] <clytle374> s
[22:27:28] <pfred1> it took me a whole two months to get sick of it
[22:27:59] <clytle374> I got sick of it the first time I needed to compile something
[22:28:04] <pfred1> well I was sick of it before then but I tried working with it for a while
[22:28:23] * pfred1 can be rather persistant
[22:28:55] <pfred1> then I started running Debian and this time I haven't looked back yet
[22:29:21] <pfred1> though I have to say I'm not 100% thrilled with Squeeze
[22:29:52] <pfred1> this box runs an old copy of Lenny and it is great
[22:30:09] <pfred1> this one's going to the grave with whats on it now
[22:30:45] <clytle374> Being on a satellite connection gentoo is great since it shares updates between 32 and 64 bit systems
[22:31:35] <pfred1> wow you get your data from space huh?
[22:31:44] * pfred1 has fios
[22:31:51] <pfred1> its OK
[22:31:54] <clytle374> no other option here
[22:32:07] <pfred1> I'm really lucky i have a conneciton here
[22:32:29] <pfred1> they said they were going to wire the whole exchange and they did even if it took them almost 3 years to do it
[22:32:46] <pfred1> the drop off the pole to my house is 990 feet
[22:33:00] <pfred1> I almost felt bad for them when they were putting it in
[22:33:17] <clytle374> that's a short run
[22:33:27] <pfred1> that is all on my property
[22:33:42] <pfred1> like off the pole into my house across my front yard
[22:34:15] <clytle374> when they did ours it was 1.5 miles through 3 creeks
[22:34:41] <skunkworks> had hughes net for a while.. better than dialup - but that is about it
[22:34:56] <clytle374> took a public service commission complaint to get it done
[22:35:03] <pfred1> well sat has some latency but I thought the bandwidth was OK
[22:35:04] <clytle374> wildblew here
[22:35:20] <clytle374> total bandwith is a problem
[22:35:35] <skunkworks> ours was capped.
[22:35:51] <pfred1> I have the slowest fios in the country I'm on like a spur out of philly
[22:35:53] <clytle374> pasttense would be so nice of a way to state that
[22:36:07] <pfred1> and philly has to be close to 200 miles from me
[22:36:38] <pfred1> I think I'm about 500 kb/s slower than regular fios
[22:38:46] <pfred1> and DSL has better latency
[22:38:59] <pfred1> well the DSL I've had in another location
[22:40:11] <clytle374> we might get dsl in within the year. wildblue put out a press release last fall about the new brid is going to rial dsl
[22:40:32] <clytle374> then I find that the speeds are good, but with a much lower cap
[22:40:40] <pfred1> dsl was the first broadband i ever had
[22:40:43] <clytle374> plus new equipment and contract
[22:41:09] <pfred1> it seemed fast bac kthen to me
[22:42:56] <clytle374> real internet is the only part of city life I miss
[22:43:23] <pfred1> I'm out in the sticks but I have fios
[22:43:43] <clytle374> we don't even have cell service here
[22:44:02] <pfred1> it is a bit shakey here only verizon really works on my property
[22:44:34] <pfred1> I think even that if i walk out onto my back deck it can fade out
[22:45:29] <pfred1> like this is my front yard http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5026/p4110020.jpg
[22:46:19] <pfred1> the trail that comes from my back clearing http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5933/p1010021id.jpg
[22:48:02] <pfred1> now if this ain't the sticks i don't know what is http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8292/p2200017.jpg
[22:48:14] <pfred1> and that is my backyard
[22:48:38] <clytle374> http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww70/clytle374/?action=view&current=1465_n.jpg
[22:49:02] <pfred1> looks like the blue ridge mountains
[22:49:10] <clytle374> it is
[22:49:16] <pfred1> see I knew that
[22:50:05] <clytle374> when it's about 100 out, it's easy to tell
[22:50:25] <pfred1> you near the great smokey mountains?
[22:50:52] <clytle374> 3 hours
[22:51:12] <pfred1> oh good one of the worst roads i ever drove on was that I-40 coming out of knoxville
[22:51:21] <pfred1> what a nightmare!
[22:51:33] <clytle374> why?
[22:51:46] <clytle374> and toys http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/ww70/clytle374/?action=view&current=2011-07-28-222822.jpg
[22:52:05] <pfred1> because everyone drives on it like they think they're racing at talladaga and the road is like one big long dead man's curve
[22:53:21] <pfred1> you know it is bad when they have to put up a sign before a tunnel that says remove sunglasses
[22:54:04] <clytle374> never seen a long dead man's curve
[22:54:24] <pfred1> although I figure any elvis loving freak stupid enough to wear sunglasses in a tunnel probably can't read too good either
[22:59:25] <pfred1> clytle374 it looks sort of like this: http://g.co/maps/qudqb
[22:59:26] <clytle374> oh yeah... grub2
[23:00:31] <clytle374> haha, that's a straight road
[23:00:50] <pfred1> yeah and that cliff on the side ain't no thousand foot drop off either
[23:01:44] <pfred1> the sat image just don't do it justice
[23:02:10] <pfred1> right before you go by that road they proudly display a sign that says white water rafting
[23:02:40] <pfred1> then you look down and say yup looks like white water way down there to me!
[23:03:13] <clytle374> I doubt there is any 1000' drops in the area
[23:03:30] <clytle374> but really, that road is pretty darn straight
[23:03:51] <pfred1> I didn't get out and measure them with a tape measure but I don't think you'd be living to tell the tale if you flew off
[23:05:04] <pfred1> all I'm saying is that whole stretch of road gave me much pause for thought as I traveled over it
[23:05:29] <pfred1> the road map I had just didn't give me any idea quite what it was going to be like
[23:05:31] <clytle374> welcome to the mountains
[23:06:05] <clytle374> my brakes last longer than my tires ;)
[23:06:06] <pfred1> I have a preconcepttion of what shielded interstate highways are like and that one just didn't live up to my expectations
[23:07:22] <pfred1> I'm looking at it now and remembering what it was like and I still can't believe it is an interstate highway
[23:08:01] <clytle374> We don't have many interstates around here
[23:10:51] <clytle374> not that are real useful for getting anywhere we need to go anyway
[23:11:38] <pfred1> clytle374 where i grew up if you couldn't land a jumbo jet on it it just wan't an interstate
[23:11:54] <clytle374> here's a chunk of interstate you should try out http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=37.952861,-81.175232&spn=0.751494,1.766052&t=h&z=9
[23:14:04] <pfred1> heh Nutterville
[23:16:06] <pfred1> there's nothing there well one house
[23:20:04] <clytle374> well, test kernel runs... now trying then rtai patch
[23:20:49] <pfred1> I don't think I've ever been to that part of west virginia I think I've only crossed through it by DC
[23:21:10] <Jymmmm> Here's some prime highway for ya... http://g.co/maps/4q7nj
[23:21:28] <Jymmmm> Land anything you want on it!
[23:21:32] <pfred1> Jymmmm that would put me to sleep
[23:21:52] <Jymmmm> pfred1: I seriously doubt it
[23:21:56] <pfred1> I don't do very good on long straight roads
[23:22:19] <Jymmmm> It's te yuma Proving Grounds... misile go flying over your head all the time
[23:22:22] <Jymmmm> missiles
[23:22:35] <clytle374> good road... at 130ish
[23:23:05] <Jymmmm> clytle374: too bad the missiles goes E/W, instead of N/S
[23:23:12] <Jymmmm> you could race one
[23:23:13] <pfred1> Jymmmm there is a tool booth by where i grew up where planes are about 100 feet over your head while you are in line
[23:23:29] <pfred1> like big jumbo jet planes
[23:23:45] <Jymmmm> pfred1: If you're not in their jet wash, no biggy.
[23:24:11] <pfred1> they're so close you look for wheel marks on your car roof
[23:24:29] <Jymmmm> lol
[23:24:37] <pfred1> it is nuts
[23:24:42] <clytle374> racing missiles sounds fun
[23:24:49] <pfred1> the toll boot is right in line with a very busy runway
[23:25:14] <pfred1> and if you hit traffic you will get buzzed by a few planes
[23:26:02] <pfred1> when i lived in florida everyone raced the freight train
[23:26:17] <pfred1> because if you didn't make it you had to sit there for like 45 minutes while it went by
[23:26:31] <pfred1> and the train went like 60 MPH
[23:26:51] <clytle374> I paced a train in KS at ~90
[23:27:33] <pfred1> it couldn't have been as long as i remember it being
[23:27:44] <pfred1> but you had to wait a while while this thing went by
[23:28:31] <pfred1> all I remember is some hair raising rides to try to beat the train and we didn't always make it either
[23:31:27] <pfred1> ha ha this is it the buzz toll booth http://g.co/maps/572d8
[23:31:40] <pfred1> look where the runway is
[23:32:20] <clytle374> Coal trains were the worst in KS, real long trains
[23:32:43] <pfred1> clytle374 know what train I saw once that was really cool?
[23:32:52] <pfred1> I saw one that was carrying train tracks
[23:32:54] <clytle374> Now that I'm thinking about it, after living here 8 years, I can't think of a railroad crossing in the state
[23:33:05] <pfred1> and I'm talking this train must have been coming right out of the steel mill
[23:33:15] <pfred1> because these pieces of track were miles long
[23:34:16] <clytle374> did they bend with the train?
[23:34:22] <pfred1> they must have
[23:34:41] <pfred1> as i can recall there were about 8 of them on these stands sort of
[23:34:56] <pfred1> and that train was going really slowly
[23:35:08] <pfred1> but they were continious pieces
[23:35:34] <pfred1> it blew my mind to see it
[23:36:03] <pfred1> it wasn't too far from the buzz toll booth but I cannot remember exactly where in newark I was
[23:36:04] <clytle374> well, I'm going to try and sleep. Hope I feel better when I wake up. dang cow mashed me yesterday and my lung hurts
[23:36:38] <pfred1> newark is a pretty crazy town
[23:36:45] <clytle374> NJ?
[23:36:56] <Jymmmm> CA?
[23:37:02] <pfred1> NJ
[23:37:12] <pfred1> I grew up not too far from it
[23:37:44] <clytle374> More barbed wire in NJ that in WV
[23:37:44] <Jymmmm> That explains EVERYTHING!
[23:37:51] <clytle374> lol
[23:38:07] <pfred1> Jymmmm thats right I grew up in the shadow of NYC
[23:38:27] <Jymmmm> No, in the smagma that is NJ
[23:38:35] <Jymmmm> ;)
[23:38:53] <pfred1> if you can afford it NJ is one of the best states there is
[23:38:58] <Jymmmm> dumb Q, will a sand blaster semi sand wood?
[23:39:09] <clytle374> no
[23:39:16] <pfred1> you can carve with a sand blaster in wood
[23:39:27] <pfred1> people make signs that way
[23:39:31] <Jymmmm> eh, can you turn it down a bit?
[23:39:41] <pfred1> use a different media
[23:39:44] <clytle374> the grain will be left sticking up
[23:39:53] <Jymmmm> no, just junk wood
[23:40:09] <pfred1> like don't use sand use crushed walnut shells or something
[23:40:16] <Jymmmm> cool
[23:40:25] <clytle374> that's expensive
[23:40:34] <pfred1> what you throw is called the media
[23:40:56] <Jymmmm> is there some cheap softer media?
[23:40:59] <clytle374> later all
[23:41:02] <pfred1> nite
[23:41:29] <pfred1> really you're not supposed to blast with regular sand at all although everyone including me has and does
[23:42:06] <pfred1> sand blasting can be nasty work
[23:42:17] <pfred1> like if you are sand blasting under a car
[23:42:35] <pfred1> been there done that
[23:43:44] <pfred1> Jymmmm if you want cheap media you may have to make it yourself with a ball mill
[23:44:54] <pfred1> casting screwball get into making ball mills to make their moulding sands
[23:47:42] <pfred1> though mullers are more popular