#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-01-27

[02:33:02] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:36:47] <Valen> sup
[03:32:59] <mrsun> damn the stl file format was complicated. ... the whole of like 3 stuff that it contains ;P
[06:32:23] <Gromits> psha: Do you have other (real-world) examples of Gladevcp? I am just starting to look at replacing my pyvcp config and am confused on how things connect. I would like to see a real example of .hal, .ui. and .py files. I have seen the examples on the manual pages but want something more complete...
[06:39:09] <psha[work]> other then what? )
[06:39:36] <psha[work]> i've something more complete but it's a bit complex - standalone UI
[06:42:42] <jthornton> Gromits: I just started with the config that mhaberler did for me on the forum
[06:42:44] <Gromits> I want to see some working EMC configs where random pins are connected to buttons, etc. I have gone through the manual and looked at stuff, but apparently I am just dense. I can't get a simple homing or estop button connected to my config
[06:43:21] <mhaberler> Gromits: look under configs/gladevcp, there are several complete examples there
[06:43:30] <Gromits> The one that changs the background color?
[06:43:38] <Gromits> I have looked in there.
[06:43:55] <jthornton> me? yes the background and label text one
[06:44:26] <jthornton> I can't see my BP computer for some reason from here this morning or I would get the config for you
[06:44:32] <Gromits> I have run the panel sim config and looked at it, but it doesn't really connect anything to EMC. It just blinks leds on button pushes, etc.
[06:44:33] <mhaberler> there are several examples there which cover pretty much all of the widgets and functionality
[06:45:22] <mhaberler> ok, there are others which use gladevcp and not just blink, see configs/sim/remap/manual-toolchange-*
[06:45:24] <Gromits> I get the widgets and how to lay them out, what i am missing is the connection back to EMC.
[06:45:39] <mhaberler> see the .hal files as specified in the ini file
[06:45:40] <Gromits> Ok, I haven't looked at that one, I will....
[06:46:02] <mhaberler> typically gladevcp pins will be hooked in a POSTGUI_HALFILE
[06:46:26] <mhaberler> there's the plumbing to the rest of emc
[06:46:39] <Gromits> I am not in front of the computer or would ask some specific questions.
[06:47:06] <Gromits> I should be in the shop in about an hour and if anyone is around I will ask something more concrete. Thanks for the info though...
[06:47:11] <mhaberler> sure
[08:51:03] <Gromits> jthornton: my distribution doesn't have the "remap" directory in it (configs/sim/remap/manual-toolchange-* )....
[08:57:47] <Gromits> Ok, basic question. I have a Home button defined in GladeVCP. I have hal_action_home1 in Actions. When I highlight the Home_Btn in Glade UI I have hal_action_home1 selected under Related Action. When I run I get: RuntimeWarning: missing handler 'on_Home_led_hal_pin_changed'
[09:00:28] <Gromits> Also, in example file there is: setp gladevcp.status 1 in the hal file. When I have this in my hal file I get: a2gantry-triv.hal:113: parameter or pin 'gladevcp.status' not found
[09:00:29] <Gromits> Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
[09:01:23] <mhaberler> which config did you start with?
[09:01:29] <Gromits> none
[09:01:44] <mhaberler> you dont believe in examples, it seems ;)
[09:01:47] <Gromits> I just wanted to do a basic thing, a single home button (or even an estop button) that would work
[09:02:02] <Gromits> No, I do indeed believe in examples, I just couldn't get them to work
[09:02:33] <mhaberler> can we go through what didnt work in the examples? this would affect other people
[09:02:43] <Gromits> sure.
[09:02:53] <Gromits> I am clay, please mold :-)
[09:03:03] <mhaberler> what were your steps? did you build from source, or a buildbot package? master, or v2.5_branch?
[09:03:13] <Gromits> build from source
[09:03:21] <Gromits> 2.5
[09:03:24] <mhaberler> ok
[09:03:39] <mhaberler> run-in-place (default)?
[09:03:42] <Gromits> yes
[09:03:44] <mhaberler> ok
[09:03:54] <mhaberler> you did . scripts/rip-environment?
[09:03:59] <Gromits> yes
[09:04:01] <Gromits> that all works
[09:04:08] <mhaberler> cd configs/gladevcp/complex
[09:04:16] <mhaberler> cat README - here's your command line
[09:04:41] <mhaberler> gladevcp -d -d -u complex.py -U debug=3 -H complex.hal complex.ui
[09:04:47] <mhaberler> does this work, or not?
[09:04:53] <Gromits> should I put that in my hal file, or just run it
[09:05:13] <mhaberler> just run it on the shell level
[09:05:27] <Gromits> seg fauly
[09:05:30] <Gromits> fault
[09:05:37] <Gromits> (gladevcp:1551): libglade-WARNING **: Expected <glade-interface>. Got <interface>.
[09:05:38] <Gromits> (gladevcp:1551): libglade-WARNING **: did not finish in PARSER_FINISH state
[09:05:40] <Gromits> **** GLADE VCP INFO: Not a libglade project, trying to load as a GTK builder project
[09:05:42] <Gromits> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[09:05:44] <Gromits> Segmentation fault
[09:06:12] <mhaberler> ok - you built an rt config and forgot 'sudo make setuid'?
[09:06:24] <Gromits> no, i did setuid at the end
[09:06:28] <Gromits> 100% sure
[09:06:37] <mhaberler> execute in the shell:
[09:06:39] <mhaberler> runtests
[09:06:59] <Gromits> running....
[09:07:39] <mhaberler> the above is not a gladevcp error but a basic issue with your installation
[09:07:52] <Gromits> Runtest: 46 tests run, 46 successful, 0 failed + 0 expected
[09:08:06] <mhaberler> cd configs/sim/axis
[09:08:12] <mhaberler> linuxcnc axis.ini
[09:08:15] <mhaberler> does that work?
[09:08:51] <Gromits> seems to work fine
[09:09:45] <mhaberler> when you do a '. scripts/rip-environment' - does it tell you something about 'only once per session'?
[09:10:04] <Gromits> If I run it more than once per session :-)
[09:10:12] <Gromits> I ran it this morning, first time and no...
[09:10:53] <Gromits> Here is it from this morning when I was trying my own config:
[09:10:57] <Gromits> a2ms@Klaatu:~/emc2/emc2-dev$ . scripts/rip-environment
[09:10:59] <Gromits> a2ms@Klaatu:~/emc2/emc2-dev$ linuxcnc
[09:11:01] <Gromits> LINUXCNC - 2.5.0-pre2
[09:11:02] <Gromits> Machine configuration directory is '/home/a2ms/emc2/emc2-dev/configs/a2gantry-triv-beta-glade'
[09:11:49] <mhaberler> can you try this:
[09:11:58] <mhaberler> cd configs/sim
[09:12:16] <mhaberler> linuxcnc axis-iocontrolv2-demo.ini
[09:12:26] <mhaberler> this is axis with a gladevcp panel
[09:12:58] <Gromits> Machine configuration directory is '/home/a2ms/emc2/emc2-dev/configs/sim'
[09:12:59] <Gromits> Machine configuration file is 'axis-iocontrolv2-demo.ini'
[09:13:02] <Gromits> Could not find ini file '/home/a2ms/emc2/emc2-dev/configs/sim/axis-iocontrolv2-demo.ini'
[09:13:27] <mhaberler> ah, sorry, this is in master only
[09:13:33] <mhaberler> hold on
[09:15:26] <mhaberler> cd configs/sim/gladevcp
[09:15:27] <mhaberler> linuxcnc gladevcp_panel.ini
[09:15:34] <mhaberler> this should be in v2.5_branch
[09:16:13] <Gromits> runs and I get the glade panel
[09:16:18] <mhaberler> ok
[09:16:25] <mhaberler> so, go from this config
[09:16:29] <Gromits> This is the one I had spent time playing with
[09:16:46] <Gromits> but it doesn't connect anything to emc.
[09:17:15] <Gromits> I see how to push buttons and light leds. I can't make my own estop button do anything (or home button).
[09:17:17] <mhaberler> then connect what you want, for instance halui pins to gladevcp.led etc
[09:17:55] <mhaberler> connect your estop button in gladevcp to halui.estop-something
[09:18:33] <Gromits> in hal, or in foo.ui?
[09:18:55] <mhaberler> in hal, as always - see manual-example.hal which touches estop
[09:19:19] <mhaberler> there is nothing to connect in foo.ui because it describes just the gladevcp component
[09:19:31] <mhaberler> all the plumbing is in hal files, as its always been
[09:20:03] <mhaberler> btw this is described in detail in the manual
[09:20:31] <Gromits> so I never have to tell the glade widgets to connect to anything in EMC? what is this all about then?....
[09:20:37] <Gromits> When I highlight the Home_Btn in Glade UI I have hal_action_home1 selected under Related Action. When I run I get: RuntimeWarning: missing handler 'on_Home_led_hal_pin_changed'
[09:21:00] <mhaberler> this doesnt follow
[09:21:19] <mhaberler> you connect gladevcp HAL widgets to other emc HAL pins through HAL files
[09:21:44] <mhaberler> b) you doing something else here - trying to connect a Python handler to a widget event
[09:21:53] <Gromits> so I don't need this Related Action thing?
[09:22:07] <mhaberler> Related Action?
[09:22:29] <Gromits> Yes, it is one of the fields in the Glade gui window for my Home button
[09:23:06] <mhaberler> can I suggest you work through some of the examples in the manual - they show in detail both the HAL plumbing, and examples for event handlers
[09:23:24] <mhaberler> the manual examples are all under configs/gladevcp
[09:23:56] <Gromits> I played with those several times yesterday. Then I tried to simply define my own Estop button (just like in the example). Nada
[09:24:15] <Gromits> The I tried Home button, same (lack of) resuly
[09:24:17] <Gromits> result
[09:24:41] <mhaberler> did you use a HAL_Button or an EMC Action?
[09:25:02] <Gromits> A hal button
[09:25:14] <Gromits> looking in my ui file hang on...
[09:25:31] <Gromits> <object class="HAL_Button" id="Home_Btn">
[09:25:33] <Gromits> <property name="label" translatable="yes">Home</property>
[09:25:34] <Gromits> <property name="width_request">183</property>
[09:25:34] <mhaberler> so if you got that panel working, halshow will show a HAL pin called gladevcp.hal_buttonwhatsit
[09:25:36] <Gromits> <property name="height_request">36</property>
[09:25:37] <Gromits> <property name="visible">True</property>
[09:25:39] <Gromits> <property name="can_focus">True</property>
[09:25:41] <Gromits> <property name="receives_default">True</property>
[09:25:42] <Gromits> <property name="related_action">hal_action_home1</property>
[09:25:44] <Gromits> <signal name="pressed" handler="on_Home_Btn_pressed"/>
[09:25:58] <mhaberler> do you edit ui files by hand?
[09:26:12] <Gromits> no, glade thc.ui (is the name of my ui file)
[09:27:09] <Gromits> when I run it I get: a2gantry-triv.hal:113: parameter or pin 'gladevcp.status' not found
[09:27:11] <Gromits> Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
[09:27:17] <mhaberler> ok fine, you added a signal handler. on_Home.. this must refer to a Python method in the .py file passed to gladevcp. This has nothing to do with HAL pins.
[09:28:02] <mhaberler> then the name of the gladevcp hal component is different. See man gladevcp. it will tell you that default is the basename of the ui file.
[09:28:32] <mhaberler> please show how gladevcp is started in your ini file (paste line here)
[09:28:50] <Gromits> GLADEVCP=-u ../gladevcp/hitcounter.py thc.ui
[09:29:23] <mhaberler> ok, now please read 'man gladevcp' - it will tell you the default HAL component name.
[09:29:35] <Gromits> 2ms@Klaatu:~$ man gladevcp
[09:29:36] <mhaberler> In your case it is thc I guess.
[09:29:37] <Gromits> No manual entry for gladevcp
[09:30:10] <mhaberler> you have a broken installation, something is fundamentally wrong here.
[09:30:17] <Gromits> tell me about it
[09:30:19] <mhaberler> cd src
[09:30:23] <mhaberler> make clean
[09:30:37] <mhaberler> make 2>&1 >make.log
[09:30:44] <mhaberler> poste make.log on pastebin
[09:30:59] <mhaberler> bbl
[09:31:25] <Gromits> ok making...
[09:36:07] <mhaberler> whats your OS version
[09:41:39] <Gromits> 10.04
[09:41:45] <mhaberler> ok
[09:43:30] <Gromits> make log: http://pastebin.com/hyrqqRck
[09:44:40] <Gromits> should I: make install-menus and sudo make setuid ?
[09:45:07] <mhaberler> yes, as suggested
[09:45:22] <mhaberler> please post also src/config.log to pastebin
[09:47:04] <Gromits> config log: http://pastebin.com/HXtDd390
[09:47:36] <Gromits> well, I do have a gladevcp man page now
[09:47:48] <mhaberler> ok, the --run-in-place isnt needed anymore because its default, but thats fine, not an error
[09:47:54] <mhaberler> now cd /home/a2ms/emc2/emc2-dev/
[09:48:03] <mhaberler> in a NEW shell
[09:48:17] <mhaberler> then '. scripts/rip-environment'
[09:48:22] <mhaberler> man gladevcp
[09:49:08] <Gromits> ok, it says: gladevcp [-g WxH+X+Y] [-c component-name] [-u handler] [-U useroption]
[09:49:10] <Gromits> [-H halfile] [-d] myfile.ui
[09:49:14] <Gromits> amongst other things...
[09:49:27] <mhaberler> hm, we didnt have that before
[09:49:37] <Gromits> right
[09:49:46] <mhaberler> magic
[09:49:56] <Gromits> odd
[09:50:18] <Gromits> This is about the 3rd time I have done the make, etc...
[09:50:37] <mhaberler> that will be €2,95, includes a warm handshake ;-)
[09:50:40] <Gromits> I did a git pull the other day to update things
[09:50:57] <Gromits> Please send the invoice to accts payable and we'll get right on that
[09:50:57] <mhaberler> whats the top three lines of 'git log'?
[09:51:40] <Gromits> a2ms@Klaatu:~/emc2/emc2-dev$ git log
[09:51:41] <Gromits> commit 731aa37e55e481b980dd3aa600a4878e0a9ab715
[09:51:43] <Gromits> Author: Francis Tisserant <tissf@free.fr>
[09:51:45] <Gromits> Date: Thu Jan 26 20:05:46 2012 +0100
[09:51:46] <Gromits> French docs cleaning, replace uS by µs
[09:51:48] <Gromits>
[09:51:49] <Gromits> Signed-off-by: Francis Tisserant <tissf@free.fr>
[09:51:51] <Gromits> commit a4450793d4a2fe7df56052885201d7279def2fdc
[09:52:46] <mhaberler> thats current wrt code
[09:53:05] <mhaberler> I think you should give it a second try with examples now, that looks better
[09:53:13] <Gromits> btw, I do really really appreciate the help (in spite of the sarcastic responses :-)
[09:53:20] <mhaberler> sure
[09:53:36] <Gromits> I'll play some more now and see if anything works better....
[09:53:57] <Gromits> though I am not sure why anything has changed!...
[09:54:04] <mhaberler> well, you know, I wrote the manual with the remote hope somebody would read it, so.. ;)
[09:54:21] <mhaberler> it's just a lucky day
[09:54:35] <mhaberler> good karma + vibes
[09:54:45] <mhaberler> in fact, very good karma
[09:54:47] <Gromits> Believe me, I have read it. This will be the third time at least. It usually takes a while for things to sink in but this has been crazy...
[09:55:01] <mhaberler> then sorry about it.
[09:55:21] <Gromits> no apologies needed. at least there is a manual!!!
[09:55:48] <mhaberler> I found that stepping back from master to v2.5_branch and doing a make without make clean creates subtle errors - hard to figure
[09:57:19] <Gromits> so should the line in my ini file be GLADEVCP=-u ../gladevcp/hitcounter.py myfile.ui (and I need to rename thc.ui to myfile?)
[09:57:34] <Gromits> also do I need a python script there at all?
[09:57:45] <Gromits> what is hitcounter.py?
[09:58:15] <Gromits> just a script that counts the times someone hit the button in the config and displays it...?
[09:58:16] <mhaberler> that is just a demo for a Python event handler - it shows the principle of connecting a signal, in glade, with a Python method
[09:58:37] <mhaberler> for just doing a pyvcp style panel, you dont need a python handler at all
[09:59:04] <Gromits> So I need: GLADEVCP= myfile.ui ?
[09:59:18] <mhaberler> try to stay with plane HAL widgets without signal handlers and Python scripts
[09:59:24] <mhaberler> yes, I think thats the line
[09:59:46] <Gromits> does it matter that it is myfile.ui or foo.ui?
[10:00:08] <mhaberler> btw the names of the signal handlers and the python function names must match or you get the error you saw
[10:00:27] <Gromits> oh, ok.
[10:00:39] <mhaberler> this will set the gladevcp HAL component name to either myfile or foo
[10:01:27] <Gromits> ok. so in the example there is this line in the hal file: setp gladevcp.status 1
[10:01:33] <mhaberler> but you can set it explicitly with '-c component foo.ui' - then the HAL comp will be named component
[10:01:35] <Gromits> where does gladevcp.status come from
[10:02:19] <mhaberler> see http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/gladevcp.html#_integrating_into_axis_like_pyvcp
[10:02:37] <mhaberler> status is the name of a HAL widget in the ui file
[10:03:32] <mhaberler> ah, I just see with that setup you cant change the HAL comp name - stop the presses - its gladevcp, period
[10:04:33] <Gromits> my presses are stopped, but I don't know what you are saying...
[10:05:56] <mhaberler> i had suggested 'GLADEVCP=-c foo bar.ui' will set the HAL component name to foo, but it is fixed at 'gladevcp'
[10:06:11] <Gromits> ok
[10:07:06] <mhaberler> anyway, good luck, have some RL coming up
[10:07:09] <Gromits> so, i still get that error, I guess becuase I have used a home hal action.
[10:07:56] <Gromits> I don't have any HAL buttons, just EMC Actions, HAL Python, and a section called Control and Display
[10:08:04] <mhaberler> what you had was: a signal handler set in the UI file, and not matching Python handler
[10:08:13] <mhaberler> aha, you DO have an EMC Action...
[10:08:37] <mhaberler> (at was a HAL button recently ;)
[10:09:00] <Gromits> For my simple home button, do I use the button in the Control and Display section?
[10:09:18] <Gromits> Or do I use the one in the EMC Action called EMC Action Home>?
[10:09:44] <mhaberler> you would use the EMC Action Home, yes
[10:09:54] <Gromits> Hmm, that is what I did
[10:09:58] <Gromits> darn
[10:10:48] <mhaberler> you did associate the Action with a button as outlined here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/gladevcp.html#_action_widgets_reference
[10:10:51] <mhaberler> ?
[10:11:30] <mhaberler> Actions are canned behaviour which must be triggered by something - they are not visible UI elements
[10:11:41] <Gromits> I thought I did
[10:11:45] <mhaberler> you associate them with something sensitive, like a button
[10:12:10] <Gromits> What specific button should I use - the HAL Button from the Python section, or the run of the mill button from the Controls and Displays section?
[10:14:14] <mhaberler> see the example for the MDI action in configs/gladevcp/mdi-command-example/owordsub.ui, this connects a button to and MDI action
[10:14:29] <Gromits> Also, to associate the action to the button, I thought I should select the Related Action dialog box (in General Tab) and select the radio button for hal_action_home1. Is that not right?
[10:14:56] <mhaberler> radio button??
[10:15:23] <mhaberler> use a normal HAL Button to start - take the example and just change the Action to start with
[10:15:37] <Gromits> Yes, in the "Choose a Action in this project" dialog box there are radio buttons for all the actions (Objects). I have hal_action_home1 and hal_action_estop1 there
[10:15:51] <mhaberler> ah, I see
[10:16:07] <Gromits> I selected hal_action_home1
[10:16:07] <mhaberler> I thought you linked it to a radio button
[10:16:12] <mhaberler> fine
[10:16:20] <Gromits> but not fine
[10:16:33] <mhaberler> so what happens if you click the button
[10:16:47] <Gromits> in glade?
[10:17:00] <Gromits> nothing happens in glade
[10:17:05] <mhaberler> no, this is just the editor - runtime, with axis
[10:17:55] <Gromits> we have come full circle. I can't run it. I get this....
[10:18:00] <Gromits> (gladevcp:22372): libglade-WARNING **: Expected <glade-interface>. Got <interface>.
[10:18:01] <mhaberler> you wont get something working with EMC from withing glade - you're just painting a GUI
[10:18:02] <Gromits> (gladevcp:22372): libglade-WARNING **: did not finish in PARSER_FINISH state
[10:18:03] <Gromits> **** GLADE VCP INFO: Not a libglade project, trying to load as a GTK builder project
[10:18:05] <Gromits> Xlib.protocol.request.QueryExtension
[10:18:06] <Gromits> Emit interp-run
[10:18:19] <Gromits> I can't even get the painted picture!
[10:18:31] <mhaberler> which painted picture
[10:18:37] <Gromits> Axis runs, Gladevcp does not come up
[10:18:38] <mhaberler> the Action icon?
[10:19:08] <Gromits> No Gladevcp panel appears and I get the above error in the terminal window where I launced linuxcnc
[10:19:15] <mhaberler> please: take the configs/gladevcp/mdi-command-example/owordsub.ui example, it is described in the manual. Get it to run.
[10:19:31] <mhaberler> then extend the ui file with a second button, and add some EMC Action
[10:19:41] <mhaberler> this example does work
[10:20:17] <mhaberler> the above errors are just startup warnings, and can be ignored
[10:22:39] <Gromits> what command do I issue to run the owordsub.ui
[10:24:01] <mhaberler> start axis, eg linuxcnc axis.ini; in a separate shell window do 'galdevcp owordsub.ui ' . OR add it with the GLADEVCP= line in your ini.
[10:26:52] <Gromits> ah, so frustrating... a2ms@Klaatu:~$ gladevcp ./emc2/emc2-dev/configs/gladevcp/mdi-command-example/owordsub.ui
[10:26:53] <Gromits> gladevcp: command not found
[10:27:05] <mhaberler> . scripts/rip-environment
[10:28:03] <mhaberler> you might want to add this to your bash profile
[10:28:53] <Gromits> ok, so I have the little owordsub window...
[10:30:14] <mhaberler> axis running?
[10:30:31] <mhaberler> push 'run O-word sub'
[10:30:51] <Gromits> yes axis is running but o-word sub is grayed out
[10:31:06] <mhaberler> turn estop off and the machine on
[10:31:12] <Gromits> ok
[10:31:31] <mhaberler> makes a difference?
[10:32:06] <Gromits> yes, I get unable to open file <oword> in Axis display
[10:32:34] <mhaberler> fine, thats just the SUBROUTINE_PATH in the inifile which needs the directory of the subroutine
[10:32:43] <mhaberler> other than that it worked
[10:32:49] <Gromits> yes
[10:33:27] <mhaberler> try instead gladevcp whoareyou.ui , this doesnt need a sub
[10:34:08] <mhaberler> you should get a popup in axis, as described in the manual; if so, you successfully executed an EMC MDI Action which was linked to that button
[10:34:43] <Gromits> Yes, that works too.
[10:35:05] <Gromits> So all of this is in the .ui file only? Nothing in .hal and no python...?
[10:35:54] <mhaberler> Yes. No HAL, no Python. Edit the files with glade, and inspect the Action properties. You will find the (MSG,…) statement there which is sent to the interpreter.
[10:36:11] <Gromits> Ok...
[10:36:59] <mhaberler> or the oword call for that matter
[10:37:37] <Gromits> I have Who are you open in Glade. I don't see the MSG thing...
[10:37:51] <mhaberler> inspect the MDI action widget
[10:38:14] <Gromits> AH!
[10:38:18] <mhaberler> Bingo!
[10:38:43] <Gromits> I thought it was the damn button! OMG
[10:39:08] <mhaberler> it isnt all that obvious, I admit
[10:39:25] <mhaberler> it's the standard way to do canned actions in glade/gtk
[10:39:40] <Gromits> You don't know how many hours I have spent looking at the buttons and leds in those examples and finding jack!
[10:39:56] <mhaberler> ok, that will be €22,95 by now;)
[10:40:07] <Gromits> Anything you want at this point :-)
[10:40:17] <mhaberler> you think you can go from here?
[10:40:23] <Gromits> yes
[10:40:44] <mhaberler> good, in case s..t reaches fan I'll be around
[10:40:48] <Gromits> sorry to be so dense. a million thanks and a few (funny money symbol) ;-)
[10:40:51] <mhaberler> sure
[12:05:09] <IchGucksLive> Hi all around the world
[12:22:40] <andypugh> Hi PCW
[12:23:16] <andypugh> Thanks for the firmware, but I think I might have been unclear on my needs, I was hoping for lots more encoders.
[12:24:40] <andypugh> One thing that does occur to me is that I only need half the 7i39. Would it be a really bad idea to try to use one of the spare outputs on the 7i39 to be the 0-10V for my spindle VFD?
[12:32:27] <pcw_home> OK I'll add some encoders on the second connector
[12:32:29] <pcw_home> no reason you could not use a 7I39 output for a PWM but you would probably
[12:32:31] <pcw_home> have to use a resistor divider on the output since the PS would likely be 24V or higher
[12:34:28] <andypugh> Ah, yes. Probably easier to use a conventional PWM. The layout I was hoping for was the normal SVSS8_8 but with the middle connector swapped to 7i39.
[12:35:00] <pcw_home> OK Ill use that as a starting point
[12:35:16] <Jymmm> mesanet customer service really sucks! You make a request and it takes em 8 minutes to respond?! Eeeeeeesh
[12:36:04] <andypugh> Worse still, I didn't even pay for most of this hardware :-)
[12:36:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: Seriously?! Those bastards trying to rip you off like that!
[12:37:45] <Jymmm> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[12:41:28] <pcw_home> Actually Jymmm, we owe Andy big time for his driver work.
[12:41:30] <pcw_home> As far as the cards go, I suspect we are paying him about 5 cents an hour
[12:42:10] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Heh, you big spenders you =)
[12:48:22] <Jymmm> Let's see, $0.05/hour comes to $1.20/day. that's ramen noodle with all the fixins and a cup of cocoa!
[12:49:57] <syyl_ws> and again, machining titan..
[12:50:01] <syyl_ws> new experience for me
[12:54:21] <Jymmm> Good luck
[12:54:24] <andypugh> So, if I had a 20GB drive with Ubuntu/LinuxCNC on it, and I magically made it into a 100GB drive, is there any way to resize the boot partition to use this new space?
[12:54:34] <syyl_ws> thanks Jymmm
[12:54:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yes, gparted will resize partitions for you.
[12:56:08] <Jymmm> andypugh: *I* have always used http://sysresccd.org/ to do such things as well as backup/restore partions/image files, etc for deployment.
[12:56:45] <andypugh> So, I have gparted, but I can't see how to use it.
[12:57:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: you can't boot from the drive you need to resize partitions, sysrescd is a livecd you boot from.
[12:58:05] <andypugh> Ah, in that case, as this is a VM, I will just delete it and re-make bigger
[12:58:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: No need, in your VM, just boot from the sysresccd ISO file, then resize your partitons iirc.
[12:59:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: But be sure to backup your VM =)
[13:00:00] <Jymmm> before you do anything =)
[13:00:06] <andypugh> I can just copy the VM into a bigger virtual disk space.
[13:00:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: Sure, but that doesn't change the partiton sizes I dont believe.
[13:00:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: Which VM are you using?
[13:00:50] <andypugh> That is what I am about to find out :-)
[13:01:36] <andypugh> No, you are quite correct. Bah!
[13:03:20] <Jymmm> Eh, once a year or so ;)
[13:04:54] <Jymmm> Scheduled for next thursday!?! WTH, I hate Oooooooops!
[14:23:23] <Jymmm> This is awesome!!! http://i43.tinypic.com/313m6ax.jpg
[14:25:40] <cradek> and also made-up
[14:30:53] <andypugh> Are you sure? I thought carrying lethal force at all times was compulsory in the US? Right to arm bears and all that?
[14:31:43] <cradek> http://memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg
[14:32:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: Right to bear arms, except in calif
[14:32:54] <andypugh> I prefer the idea of arming bears :-)
[14:33:07] <jdhNC> nor mass, dc, NYC, chicago
[14:33:23] <cradek> bears don't need arms, and neither do I - I can shoot lasers from my eyes.
[14:34:16] <jdhNC> cool, where do you post your warning signs?
[14:34:23] <dvmirc> bears don't have arms, they have paws
[14:34:25] <cradek> they're not required
[14:35:09] <jdhNC> I kill unsuspecting pieces of paper.
[14:38:45] <Jymmm> I came across an unleashed dog yesterday that gave me a look, I hope cradek laser eyes have long distance.
[14:39:51] <Jymmm> Found out from a cop yesterday that gang bangers are now carrying collapsable batons.
[14:40:05] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: had that more than one time. didnt go well for the dog every time
[14:40:10] <jdhNC> they are generally illegal to carry, but they are criminals.
[14:40:27] <Loetmichel> no laser needed, just confidence and fast reflexes ;)
[14:40:31] <alex4nder-> jdhNC: imagine that
[14:40:31] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: What, you had a bear in your pocket?
[14:40:56] <Loetmichel> no, just looked at the dogs. straight.
[14:41:28] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Heh, the cop said that too, then said I should get the longer one rather than the one I was looking as its then a double weapon
[14:41:33] <Loetmichel> never needed more than 2 minutes or so and the put their tails betwen their legs and run
[14:42:01] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: I like rolled-up magazines
[14:42:23] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: Yeah, had those in my back pocket =)
[14:42:29] <jdhNC> double weapon?
[14:42:58] <Jymmm> Actually said I should just get a hickory cane, perfectly legal.
[14:43:08] <Jymmm> jdhNC: Long enough to use both ends of it.
[14:43:21] <Jymmm> as it's a medical device
[14:43:30] <jdhNC> gotcha
[14:43:36] <alex4nder-> it's still legal to openly carry rifles in california
[14:43:40] <jdhNC> I can legally carry a concealed handgun, but not a baton
[14:43:41] <alex4nder-> and you can have a loaded mag in your back pocket.
[14:43:55] <alex4nder-> just don't be within 1000 ft of a school's property line
[14:44:21] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: a loaded mag is a concealed weapon here.
[14:44:38] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: even if no forearms is present.
[14:44:43] <Jymmm> firearm
[14:44:45] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: where are you?
[14:44:57] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: Lovely fscking California
[14:45:05] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: a loaded mag is not a concealed weapon
[14:45:12] <alex4nder-> I live in lovely california.
[14:45:40] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: Oh yes it is. Maybe not per statue, but the DA's are procecuting those that have loaded mags
[14:45:53] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[14:46:05] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: a DA can go after you for whatever they want.. it's all a matter of what sticks
[14:46:21] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: and it's sticking, that's the problem.
[14:46:25] <Loetmichel> baton? are those these telescopic metal sticks to beat ppl?
[14:46:33] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: yes
[14:46:37] <jdhNC> slightly on topic, there are some cool youtube videos of a guy machining his ar15 lower from scratch
[14:46:40] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: no one in the state of california has ever been convicted of having a loaded magazine as a concealed weapon.
[14:46:40] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: but defense only =)
[14:46:52] <JT-Shop> it's mandatory to carry a firearm here :)
[14:47:08] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: the only time it's even sketchy is when you've commited a "gang related" crime with a gun.
[14:47:25] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: mandatory?
[14:47:50] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: in fact, the whole "ammunition being in contact with a gun makes it loaded" case has been struck down.
[14:47:54] <Loetmichel> i would, if i were allowed to... but in germany: no chance
[14:48:01] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: Ca PC 12031
[14:48:28] <andypugh> I think the Swiss are obliged to have a weapon.
[14:48:42] <syyl_ws> if they served in the armed forces
[14:48:42] <Jymmm> andypugh: by law I believe, I like it.
[14:48:52] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: you didn't read A-F
[14:48:55] <syyl_ws> they have to keep their sig550 rifle at home
[14:49:03] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: none of that applies unless you're breaking the law doing something else.
[14:49:08] <syyl_ws> but reduced to semi automatic...
[14:49:32] <syyl_ws> and a reserve of 25 rounds 5.56x45 in a can
[14:49:37] <syyl_ws> or tin
[14:49:49] <syyl_ws> looks like a tin you get fish in
[14:49:51] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: anyway, keep safe, not carrying a loaded magazine isn't a bad thing.
[14:49:59] <alex4nder-> I keep loaded mags with all my guns in transit.
[14:50:10] <alex4nder-> as I'm not a felon, own my guns, and am not commiting gang violence.
[14:50:35] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: As I prefer to do as well. But has to be kept seperate from the firearm too
[14:50:45] <alex4nder-> it doesn't have to be kept separate
[14:50:49] <alex4nder-> it just can't be loaded
[14:51:52] <syyl_ws> mh, titanium lost its myth for me...with the right tools/feeds its not to hard to machine
[14:51:57] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California
[14:51:58] <syyl_ws> easier than stainless
[14:52:46] <Jymmm> Carrying a concealed loaded magazine even without a firearm present can get you arrested. Some consider a loaded magazine the same as
[14:52:46] <Jymmm> a firearm and the 1000 foot rule on School Safety Zones exists in California. This could also apply to speed loaders.
[14:53:22] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: not true
[14:53:41] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: from the link you provided: Ammunition may be carried in the same container as the gun
[14:53:57] <alex4nder-> yup
[14:53:59] <Jymmm> but, there are some cases you REALLY have to be carful about
[14:54:20] <alex4nder-> you can get arrested at any moment, for anything
[14:54:26] <alex4nder-> you can get ticketed for anything
[14:54:29] <Jymmm> 16840(a) As used in Section 25800, a firearm shall be deemed to
[14:54:29] <Jymmm> be "loaded" whenever both the firearm and the unexpended
[14:54:29] <Jymmm> ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in
[14:54:30] <Jymmm> the immediate possession of the same person.
[14:55:03] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: read the link, that only applies if you're intending to commit a felony
[14:55:08] <alex4nder-> see 25800
[14:55:47] <alex4nder-> california's laws suck
[14:55:55] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: Yeah, no shit.
[14:56:16] <jdhNC> the criminals don't really care if they are breaking the law.
[14:56:33] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: I just want a CCW so I dont have to dela with this BS
[14:56:41] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: what county are you in?
[14:57:03] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: Santa Clara (I'll never see one)
[14:57:14] <alex4nder-> oh yah, you're screwed. so am I.
[14:57:16] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: though the new laws for 2012 could be promising.
[14:57:22] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: County?
[14:57:25] <alex4nder-> I'm in Santa Barbara county
[14:57:36] <Jymmm> I think you're worse
[14:57:38] <alex4nder-> yah
[14:57:41] <alex4nder-> you're probably right.
[14:58:05] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: 2012 CW laws now state they MUST give you a reason for denial of a CCW
[14:58:14] <alex4nder-> ah, well that's cool
[14:59:20] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: It may be grounds to keep re-applying for a CCW until all their criteria is met.
[14:59:59] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: I so want a LCP =)
[15:00:19] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: But, I'd have to buy it "used" from a LEO as it's not on the CA approved list.
[15:00:47] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: you can bring them in on a single-shot exemption.
[15:00:55] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: ?
[15:01:03] <jdhNC> I have and LCP, I'd like an LC9
[15:01:33] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: non-roster guns can be brought into California through an FFL if they're bring in only capable of firing a single round before reloading.
[15:01:34] <Jymmm> jdhNC: whats different about the two?
[15:01:46] <alex4nder-> er brought in
[15:01:57] <jdhNC> an inch or so... 380 vs. 9mm
[15:02:01] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: that's how most AR-15 pistols are brought in legally
[15:02:13] <alex4nder-> the rest, owners machine themselves.
[15:02:15] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: I dont understand the "single shot" part
[15:02:37] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: oh, screw that, I'd rather pay a LEO $50 for his/her trouble
[15:02:44] <alex4nder-> screw what?
[15:02:45] <alex4nder-> it's easy
[15:03:04] <alex4nder-> that's how all the Gen 4 Glocks are coming into the state.
[15:03:16] <Jymmm> jdhNC: LC9 being an inch longer?
[15:03:24] <jdhNC> about, and a little thicker
[15:03:35] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: Gen4 I thought was just texturized?
[15:03:51] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: no, they're materially different
[15:03:58] <alex4nder-> and they're not on the safety roster
[15:04:14] <Jymmm> alex4nder-: G17 Gen 4 ?
[15:04:48] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I REALLY like the feel of the LCP, though I have a 9mm G17 - would save on having different ammo though.
[15:05:46] <Jymmm> jdhNC: how do you like the LCP?
[15:05:56] <Jymmm> brb
[15:06:00] <jdhNC> it's small, not for shooting
[15:06:04] <alex4nder-> Jymmm: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383692
[15:08:01] <Loetmichel> hmm, whats the american definition of "gun"?
[15:08:15] <jdhNC> too hard to type
[15:08:19] <Loetmichel> does it need to have a chemical propellant?
[15:08:56] <jdhNC> dunno, there are lots of 'guns' that are not controlled
[15:09:00] * Loetmichel wants to build a coilgun ever since i ordered the HV-caps... but no time ;-)
[15:09:23] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: it varies based on federal, state, county, and city law.
[15:09:33] <Loetmichel> ... amunition i think of the broken 1/8" TC mill bits ;-)
[15:10:11] <jdhNC> you can buy an 80% complete AR15 lower with no restrictions
[15:10:26] <alex4nder-> jdhNC: I just milled one of those
[15:10:46] <jdhNC> how long did it take?
[15:11:06] <alex4nder-> a couple of hours on my Taig
[15:11:11] <alex4nder-> including fixturing/setup
[15:11:29] <jdhNC> cool... I've never seen any 80%'s cheaper than finished ones.
[15:11:43] <alex4nder-> they aren't.. I built my to be a pistol in california
[15:11:48] <alex4nder-> er mine
[15:11:53] <jdhNC> I guess being able to have them mailed to you is easier.
[15:12:17] <jdhNC> I can get a pistol sampled lower for $85
[15:12:23] <jdhNC> stamped
[15:12:34] <alex4nder-> yup
[15:12:40] <alex4nder-> california is not so easy
[15:12:53] <alex4nder-> I don't have any FFLs near me willing to bring one in.
[15:12:57] <jdhNC> where did you get the 80%?
[15:13:22] <jdhNC> no 4473 for the 80%
[15:13:27] <alex4nder-> tactical machining
[15:13:44] <alex4nder-> nice finish work from them
[15:15:57] <jdhNC> I have a lower that has been sitting in a box for a year waiting for time to finish putting in the parts kit
[15:19:14] <Jymmm> jdhNC: not for shooting? you mean target practice?
[15:19:35] <jdhNC> right
[15:20:21] <jdhNC> I have a PF9 that is worse :) I was hoping the LC9 would be an improvement over that.
[15:20:46] <Jymmm> jdhNC: The LCP fits in my shirt pocket!
[15:21:05] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I can even hide it in the open palm of my hand!!!!
[15:21:20] <jdhNC> yep, and it is nicely made. But, it is still just a 380 with a tiny barrel.
[15:21:36] <Jymmm> jdhNC: beats 22 or 25
[15:22:09] <jdhNC> yep, I have a beretta 25, the LCP is better to hold
[15:22:34] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I really want it for my BOB than anything else.
[15:55:06] <PCW> andypugh: updated bit file at same place, 7I39 (P3) is a little strange as it uses tppwms 0,1 but encoders 4,5
[15:55:38] <andypugh> That's not a problem.
[15:55:42] <andypugh> And thanks
[15:58:39] <PCW> I could make the encodesr on P2 not match the local PWMs and
[15:58:40] <PCW> have the P3 = 7I39 match if need be but its always sortable in HAL
[15:58:42] <PCW> so I didn't bother
[16:11:37] <andypugh> Would it be a bad idea to separate the wires in the 50-pin ribbon to bundle them and make them better at corners?
[16:15:07] <syyl> hmm
[16:15:17] <syyl> i fold em by 45° to take corners
[16:15:56] <andypugh> Yes, but I need to fold up, then down, then 4 degrees, then round the corner.
[16:16:13] <syyl> oops
[16:16:13] <syyl> hmm
[16:16:50] <syyl> seperating the wires was done with the old style ribbon cables in house installation over here..
[16:17:10] <syyl> but in computer applications, i dont know, of thats usual..
[16:18:35] <PCW> you will have more crosstalk and for high speed stuff, impedance mis-matching
[16:18:36] <PCW> if you only split it at corners the side effect would be minor
[16:18:56] <PCW> s/effect/effects/
[16:19:48] <andypugh> syyl: You can sort-of see the issue here: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-yZ_pMt4fTdaRPaJhJQwjtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:20:15] <andypugh> It needs to be shorter too, really.
[16:20:26] <syyl> oh, yes
[16:20:30] <syyl> looks a bit strange that way
[16:21:19] <PCW> Theres the "round" flat cable I think its slit at intervals
[16:21:47] <andypugh> I might have a play, I have several yards of the cable.
[16:22:15] <PCW> http://www.newark.com/3m/3759-50-100/round-to-flat-cable-50cond-100ft/dp/04F8891
[16:22:31] <andypugh> (And I feel I need to point out that that picture is clearly taken before the harness lacing.
[16:23:19] <PCW> Wheres Jymmms Panduit comment?
[16:23:30] <andypugh> PCW: Aye, that's the sort of thing I was thinking of.
[16:24:16] <PCW> surely you could do it yourself if you can slit the cable without cutting into the wires
[16:24:25] <cradek> in here, I just tore up the ribbon into chunks and tied them together near the hinge: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/hinged.jpg
[16:24:41] <PCW> maybe with some spiral wrap
[16:24:49] <andypugh> Yes, that was the plan
[16:24:50] <andypugh> I might even have the ideal tool in my sewing machine tools.
[16:25:32] <andypugh> (I see sewing as a specialised form of riveting, and hance fundamentally a part of engineering)
[16:26:05] <syyl> making a nice cable harness is close to art :)
[16:26:26] <syyl> i learned it the old style way
[16:26:55] <syyl> with waxed cotton filament and a special knot
[16:27:18] <syyl> binding together the cables on a wooden board with a lot of nails to hold the cables in position ;)
[16:27:18] <PCW> cradek: very neat, good idea to separate the flat cable into small strips
[16:28:27] <cradek> PCW: it's a pain making stuff accessible and neat, but future-me sure likes it better when I do
[16:29:11] <PCW> :-)
[16:32:26] <syyl> hmm
[16:32:32] <syyl> got it almost done :D
[16:32:40] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2012-01-27_21-12-50_988.jpg
[16:32:47] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2012-01-27_23-14-27_176.jpg
[16:33:56] <syyl> only need to saw it out of the frame and polish...
[16:37:32] <Jymmm> PCW: I gave in you ppl makin things purrty
[16:37:51] <Jymmm> PCW: I gave up on you ppl makin things purrty
[16:41:46] <Poincare> syyl: is that a metric or imperial mold?
[16:42:09] <syyl> everything metric here..
[17:04:53] <andypugh> syyl: Lacing isn't dead: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NivmHU8OuXIcP2EQHUPruNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:05:19] <syyl> oh, nice done
[17:05:50] <syyl> *nicely
[17:06:18] <syyl> i dont show my cnc cabinet ;)
[17:06:30] <syyl> might cause mental illness
[17:06:49] <syyl> ziptie collection of horror ;)
[17:08:34] <andypugh> Lacing is cheap and doesn't actually take all that long.
[17:08:53] <syyl> jep
[17:09:06] <syyl> and it looks nice
[17:09:15] <andypugh> Though the printing on my lacing cord (bought a couple of years ago from RS) makes me think that the stock dates from the 1950s.
[17:10:10] <andypugh> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-lacing/0554080/
[17:11:36] <Loetmichel> laching cord? is dathe wxes string used to bundle cabling?
[17:11:59] <Loetmichel> ... that i have learnbed to do so many years ago...
[17:12:07] <Loetmichel> grrr,
[17:12:11] <Loetmichel> waxed
[17:12:25] <Loetmichel> that the
[17:12:32] <Loetmichel> learned
[17:13:06] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Aye, that it be.
[17:16:06] * Loetmichel has to get out of the bathing tub... the vnc connection to my work PC is SO bad over here, half of the time i dont see wjhat i type until return and screen refresh :-(
[17:25:16] <Jymmm> My little coffee can (literally) stove works pretty good, but I need bigger coat hanger - burning alcohol made the existing one brittle
[17:33:46] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobo_stove
[17:42:42] <PCW> Whee! I can communicate with the Ethernet chip on the 7I80. It nice that it mostly works without a ton of setup
[18:00:17] <Jymmm> PCW: BOOTP ?
[18:01:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: The coat hanger is adjustable height... http://i42.tinypic.com/120t4cz.jpg
[18:01:12] <PCW> I am intending this just for martian packets (point to point real time parallel port replacement)
[18:01:30] <Jymmm> PCW: Oh cool!
[18:01:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://i44.tinypic.com/dcy8sm.jpg
[18:02:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: 1.5L SS bottle... http://i52.tinypic.com/8wgivq.jpg
[18:04:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Best damn chorizo around http://i44.tinypic.com/nnpmb4.jpg Note the "TEXAS Brand", "Made in CALIFORNIA", by "NEW YORK Sausage" =)
[18:04:54] <Jymmm> bbiab, foodage
[18:25:09] <skunkworks> PCW: A little more.. so you would hook it directly to a network card?
[18:25:23] <PCW> Yes
[18:25:41] <skunkworks> cool
[18:26:02] <skunkworks> what are you using for realtime on the computer side?
[18:26:56] <PCW> Just sending and receiving packets directed from the (dedicated) Ethernet hardware
[18:27:44] <andypugh> PCW: I wonder if an Arduino could be taught to speak SSLBP?
[18:28:33] <PCW> Probably, can its UART do 2.5 Mbaud?
[18:29:03] <skunkworks> neat - boy - if you could create a networked 7i43....
[18:29:08] <PCW> (doesnt actually have to thats just our default)
[18:29:27] <skunkworks> or similar..
[18:29:45] <andypugh> The web says folk have set p 2Mb
[18:29:57] <andypugh> I would have to try it to se, I guess.
[18:30:29] <PCW> Thats kind of what the 7I80 is, a 3 connector 7I43 with Ethernet as one of its interface options
[18:31:07] <PCW> SSLBB does have settable baud rates
[18:31:50] <skunkworks> PCW: do you think it would be possible with emc?
[18:32:34] <PCW> most of our stuff will run at 10M baud but everything will run at 2.5
[18:34:27] <PCW> skunkworks thats one thing I have been thinking of, as long as you just use the motherboard/PCI add-on Ethernet as a dedicated serial port
[18:34:29] <PCW> the 7I80s little processor can deal with a simple basic protocol in real time
[18:35:53] <andypugh> Looking on the web of a thousand lies, I am getting the impression that the Arduino UART tops out rather too low.
[18:36:02] <PCW> (8 bits 133 MHz 2K code 2K RAM)
[18:36:18] <skunkworks> neat - I think that would be cool
[18:37:38] <PCW> Right now Im looking for a linux or windows tool that sends/receives totally raw packets for testing
[18:39:03] <jdhNC> PCW: http://packeth.sourceforge.net/
[18:40:48] <PCW> Andy even 1M or 2M Baud would be OK, you can set SSLBPs baud rates on a per channel basis
[18:40:49] <PCW> jdhNC: thanks! that looks like it will do the send part
[18:41:24] <jdhNC> you can monitor raw frames with ethereal
[18:41:30] <jdhNC> or whatever it is called now, wireshark?
[18:42:02] <pfred1> ethereal changed its name?
[18:42:24] <pfred1> TBH I always misspelled it whenever I tried to invoke it anyways
[18:43:15] <pfred1> jdhNC ever try etherape?
[18:43:50] <jdhNC> nope, never heard of it.
[18:44:16] <pfred1> its pretty cool makes a map of your net connections of these dots and lines and depending on how much bandwidth each is the dots grow
[18:44:35] <jdhNC> by using endpoints?
[18:44:39] <pfred1> pretty freaky if you're on a torrent
[18:45:00] <pfred1> aptitude install etherape and check it out
[18:45:14] <pfred1> I think you have to run it as root? it's been a while
[18:45:36] <jdhNC> probably for promiscuous mode
[18:48:18] <pfred1> mine said error getting interface when I tried to invoke as a user runs fine su'ed to root
[18:48:43] <jdhNC> dmesg should show a switch to promisc
[18:49:05] <pfred1> [3180020.015641] device eth0 entered promiscuous mode
[18:49:32] <jdhNC> gotta be root, or anyone could sniff everything on the wire.
[18:49:49] <jdhNC> it was better before everything was switched.
[18:50:07] <pfred1> it is a very hypnotic app whenever i run it I find myself starting mindlessly at its window
[18:51:18] <jdhNC> I had a PLC that would die every day at 10pm and 6am. Sniffed it for a few days and found a switch mis-config that allowed network backups to be spewed to every port on the vlan
[18:52:02] <jdhNC> then it took me days to convince the IT weenies it was a problem
[19:40:44] <Jymmm> Oh man, he left already...
[19:45:27] <pfred1> who?
[19:45:27] <Jymmm> Bioling some water in a soup can in the hobo stove... http://i51.tinypic.com/2e51c2x.jpg
[19:45:37] <Jymmm> pfred1: Andy
[19:45:45] <pfred1> he stays on too late
[19:46:06] <pfred1> he is what like 5 hours ahead or something?
[19:46:17] <Jymmm> pfred1: Was just going to show him the hobo stove in operation
[19:46:44] <Jymmm> Works good with alcohol, fuel cans, and twings
[19:47:26] <pfred1> no hobo worth their sand is going to burn alcohol in a stove
[19:47:49] <Jymmm> DENATURED alcohol, cant drink that stuff
[19:47:59] <pfred1> tell that to a hobo
[19:48:21] <Jymmm> before or after he's done puking?
[19:48:37] <jdhNC> probably best to do both.
[19:48:43] <Jymmm> heh
[19:49:33] <Jymmm> Well, at least all the crap on the cans is now burned off at least
[19:49:56] <jdhNC> are you planning on becoming a hobo?
[19:50:13] <Jymmm> Ya never know =)
[19:51:32] <Jymmm> I had seen a lot of them made, but all of them were kinda top-heavy scarry. I wanted to try to make one a little more stable.
[19:53:50] <Jymmm> There's enough of a reservoir on the bottom to hold an ounce+ of denatured alcohol, or you could use sterno cans, or (what I prefer) are these FAA safe fuel cans that will not evaporate or explode on aircraft, then lastly (in a pinch) sticks and twigs
[19:54:35] <Jymmm> Oh, and fuel tabs too would work - I had forgotten about those.
[19:55:03] <pfred1> C4
[19:55:15] <pfred1> stuff burns nicely
[19:55:18] <Jymmm> pfred1: No hobo stove needed for c4 =)
[19:55:44] <Jymmm> I also lit it with vaseline cotton ball and a firestick
[19:56:09] <Jymmm> took about 15 strikes to FINALLY get the spark IN the can side opening =)
[19:56:32] <Jymmm> pfred1: c4 burns?
[19:56:37] <pfred1> yup
[19:56:44] <Jymmm> I thought it just exploded
[19:56:44] <pfred1> they checked it out on Mythbusters
[19:56:51] <pfred1> can't get the stuff to explode either
[19:57:01] <Jymmm> really?
[19:57:03] <pfred1> they dropped an anvil on it while it was on fire and everything
[19:57:17] <jdhNC> dynamite burns
[19:57:25] <pfred1> yeah it burns like hexamine
[19:57:31] <pfred1> pretty tame
[19:57:43] <Jymmm> hexamine burns at what 3000F ?
[19:57:56] <jdhNC> scared the crap out of me when he put it in the fire.
[19:58:03] <pfred1> donno it is fuel tabs for cooking though
[19:59:02] <Jymmm> This is the FAA Safe stuff I was talking about.... http://makais.com/product_images/s/050/0450__96756_zoom.jpg
[19:59:22] <Jymmm> It doesn't evaporate either, good for long term storage.
[19:59:40] <pfred1> what is is wax?
[19:59:44] <Jymmm> Sterno in a sealed can lasts only abou 6 month on the shelf.
[20:00:01] <Jymmm> pfred1: No,diethylene glycol
[20:00:16] <pfred1> sounds like antifreeze
[20:00:46] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol
[20:02:07] <Jymmm> pfred1: that would be Ethylene glycol == antifreeze
[20:02:39] <pfred1> like i said pretty close
[20:06:47] <Jymmm> well, one burns, one doens't
[20:07:04] <pfred1> antifreeze stinks pretty bad when you boil it off
[20:07:27] <Jymmm> this stuff is odorless when burnt, or slightly sweet
[20:07:35] <pfred1> plus I'm pretty sure if yo uget anything hot enough it burns
[20:07:54] <pfred1> you can burn water!
[20:08:08] <Jymmm> but it stinks when you do
[20:09:38] <Jymmm> I've had some of those fuel cans for 5+ years and still at the same level and burns just as good as they day I got them too.
[20:10:09] <pfred1> I'm good at building campfires
[20:10:29] <Jymmm> in 2ft of snow?
[20:10:31] <pfred1> I need to do some fires here I haven't done them in a while now
[20:10:51] <pfred1> the dead wood is really piling up
[20:11:11] <pfred1> I've melted aluminum on some of my wood fires
[20:11:31] <Jymmm> vaseline soaked cottonballs make GREAT tinder
[20:11:44] <pfred1> yeah but vaseline doesn't grow on my trees here
[20:12:03] <Jymmm> it does in your medicine cabinet and your local store shelfs
[20:12:35] <pfred1> it might but they might take exception to me trying to haul off a cartload of it
[20:13:00] <Jymmm> Not at all
[20:13:01] <pfred1> I got like 1,000 dead trees
[20:13:15] <Jymmm> Got Marshmellows?
[20:13:28] <Jymmm> pfred1: where the hell are you?
[20:13:31] <pfred1> nah most of it is pole pines yo udon't want to eat anything cooked on them
[20:13:41] <pfred1> I live in Delaware
[20:13:49] <Jymmm> how many acres?
[20:13:51] <pfred1> 3
[20:13:55] <pfred1> wooded
[20:14:03] <Jymmm> 1000 dead on 2 acres?!
[20:14:08] <Jymmm> err 3
[20:14:22] <Jymmm> how many total?
[20:14:28] <pfred1> lets just say yo ucould burn them morning noon and night and you'd be burning trees for a long time
[20:14:34] <pfred1> years
[20:14:51] <Jymmm> and you dont use them for fuel?
[20:15:03] <pfred1> well being pines they have a lot of cresote to them
[20:15:20] <Jymmm> Ok, so nice big fat chimney
[20:15:20] <pfred1> so I'm not tii big on trying to burn them in a chimney
[20:15:44] <pfred1> too many people lose their houses over cresote fires
[20:15:55] <Jymmm> hell, you could make a boiler and power the neighborhood
[20:16:15] <pfred1> some people here do they have external furnaces
[20:16:28] <Jymmm> I didnt mean a home fireplace.
[20:17:06] <Jymmm> hire some kids to cut down and split that wood for ya
[20:17:25] <pfred1> it falls on its own
[20:17:32] <Jymmm> ok, there ya go
[20:17:42] <pfred1> seems ants eat some of them
[20:17:56] <pfred1> or termites I donno they have like little pinholes all shot through them
[20:18:04] <Jymmm> *I* wouldn't just waste fuel like that, put it to SOEM good use
[20:18:13] <pfred1> I used to but it gets old
[20:18:29] <Jymmm> well, that's where the kids come in =)
[20:18:44] <pfred1> any kids around here I don't want them around my place
[20:19:04] <Jymmm> well, I dont mean 14yo's
[20:19:08] <pfred1> not that I ever seen any but still people around here you're better off not knowing them and them not knowing you
[20:19:15] <Jymmm> ah
[20:19:22] <jdhNC> geez... where do you live?
[20:19:49] <pfred1> it is a very poor area without too many prospects
[20:20:14] <pfred1> I live west of a place called Rehoboth beach
[20:20:25] <Jymmm> pfred1: I'm sure there are some GOOD kids in that bunch that would love a part time job to help ends meet
[20:21:53] <jdhNC> Rehoboth sounds familiar, but not in .de.us
[20:22:13] <pfred1> it is the east coast gay capitol of the country :)
[20:22:47] <pfred1> that is its big claim to fame
[20:23:01] <jdhNC> hmm... I have a friend from Cape May (gay) perhaps it's just the general area
[20:23:18] <pfred1> they could take the ferry and be right in lewes
[20:23:24] <pfred1> I'm sure a lot of faries do :)
[20:24:18] <pfred1> I'm enough inland of all that it doesn't affect me
[21:02:26] <Jymmm> GAY BASH AT pfred1's!!!
[21:02:48] <pfred1> Jymmm they don't come this far inland
[21:03:21] <Jymmm> pfred1: They do now, told em you are serving pink cocktails
[21:03:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: and that Liza will be there too