#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-01-26

[03:09:14] <mrsun> small machine
[05:13:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Here ya go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoHx_iYRGcM&feature=player_embedded
[05:13:09] <Jymmm> jthornton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoHx_iYRGcM&feature=player_embedded
[05:16:00] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:19:12] <Loetmichel> <- just came back from our local screw/tools dealer... ordered 2 TC mill bits 2 flute 6mm with 10mm cutting lengh, and one with 30mm cutting lenght. the short ones for 10.78 Eur each, the long one 21 eur. the short ones in HSS was only marginally cheaper... i THINK the prices have gone up since last time i ordered :-(
[05:53:24] <jthornton> anyone use a bur grinder for their coffee?
[06:08:04] <Loetmichel> jthornton: i have a saeco royal so my coffee is grinded by a ceramic grinder for coffee ;-)
[06:08:36] <jthornton> is it worth the price?
[06:09:53] <Loetmichel> more or less. the 600 eur is a bit much. but the comfort of having fresh grinded coffee all the time and fresh brewed also is worht some money i think
[06:10:25] <Loetmichel> and the steam cyclone for the milk is great so my wife makes me a latte macciato nearly every morning
[06:10:26] <jthornton> I use a blade grinder now but it does not give an even grind
[06:10:34] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11738
[06:10:55] <Loetmichel> the saecos use burr grinders i think
[06:11:12] <jthornton> not my cup of coffee :)
[06:11:23] <jthornton> I drink mine hot and black
[06:11:40] <Loetmichel> 2 ceramic wheels at a set distance with a taper and "teeth" in it
[06:11:44] <Loetmichel> like a salt mill
[06:11:52] <Loetmichel> or pepper mill
[06:12:24] <Loetmichel> s/wheels/ concentric wheeels
[07:18:50] <mrsun> http://fluteworld.ru/img/c7/c77/CNC_Made_Micro_Wood_Turning_Lathe.jpg heh, cute =)
[07:22:40] <Loetmichel> *grrrr*
[07:24:01] * Loetmichel has stood 1 hr and dismantled the coffee grinder... SOMEONE has put a plastic packaging shard in it :-( (wife!)
[07:24:55] <Loetmichel> jthornton: i stand corrected: the saeco has a steel grinder: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12718
[07:25:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12721
[07:28:40] <archivist> mrsun, too large for me, look in the toolbox screw driver handle http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_07_27_tinware/IMG_0798.JPG
[07:30:12] <Loetmichel> archivist: hmmm... what are the watering cans made of? soda cans? arent they aluminium?
[07:30:33] <archivist> tinplate steel
[07:30:42] <Loetmichel> that thin?
[07:30:50] <archivist> biscuit tin
[07:31:03] <Loetmichel> biscuit boxes?
[07:31:21] <archivist> yes
[07:31:26] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[07:31:32] <Loetmichel> nice work!
[07:32:15] <Loetmichel> (little to small for my eyes which wont see a 0402 resistor properjy without magnifying help, though)
[07:32:22] <Loetmichel> -j+l
[07:32:41] <archivist> just use extra reading glasses
[07:33:28] <archivist> or...stereo zoom microscope which I use these days
[07:34:06] * Loetmichel has seen a lot of "greys anatomy" lately 'cause wife is a fan... the glasses with the double magnifiers in them they use in the OR there are looking like they would be great for small work ;-)
[07:34:28] <archivist> hand turning under a microscope is actually easy
[07:34:53] <Loetmichel> archivist: ANYTHING handiework unter proper magnifying is easy
[07:35:41] <archivist> not when the screwdriver etc obscures the view
[07:35:58] <Loetmichel> its astonishing how precise one can handle objects if the eye can close the positioning loop wiht enough resolution ;-)
[07:37:10] <Loetmichel> look at te ppl who manage to insert new DNA into human/cow/sheep eggs.
[07:37:23] <Loetmichel> freehand under the microscope
[07:37:37] <Loetmichel> with a VERY fine glass needle ;-)
[07:40:07] <archivist> they have micro manipulators that gear down the movement
[07:40:42] <archivist> I have a few here but never had a need to use them
[07:41:18] <Loetmichel> archivist: i have seen it done FREEHAND without any gearing
[07:41:40] <Loetmichel> ... couldnt belive my eyes
[09:03:21] <Gromits> I was trying to play with the Gladevcp example code in 2.5. When I try to run the glade UI editor (glade configs/gladevcp/manual-example.ui), I get an error: The following required catalogs are unavailable: gladevcp. I installed gladevcp and am not sure what this error means...?
[09:04:09] <Gromits> It is also interesting because after I say OK to this error, the editor comes up...
[09:05:16] <Gromits> but when I try to use Open to open the manual-example.ui file I get the same error...
[09:08:34] <skunkworks> I have not played with glade yet
[09:08:51] <Gromits> what good are ya? :-)
[09:08:59] <skunkworks> sorry ;)
[09:09:35] <skunkworks> do you have to install glade editor - or is it already there?
[09:10:01] <Gromits> It must be there because it comes up, it just can't open the file...
[09:10:55] <skunkworks> ooh - the glade sample config runs.. lets see if I can figure out how to edit it
[09:12:01] <skunkworks> says I have to install glade.
[09:12:06] <skunkworks> installin
[09:13:10] <Gromits> I did that and just checking, if I do it again it says I have the latest...
[09:17:17] <JT-Work> RIP or installed version of LinuxCNC?
[09:17:29] <Gromits> rip
[09:21:01] <Gromits> Hmm, there is a long thread from a year ago on this same problem. No resolution though... http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/25073
[09:29:19] <JT-Work> I have it working on my BP and Plasma installed 2.5 computers
[09:30:57] <JT-Work> I still need to work out the GS2 status messages and convert the numbers to text
[09:31:17] <JT-Work> well winblows says I must reboot
[09:50:49] <Gromits> Any luck skunkworks?
[09:54:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Here ya go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoHx_iYRGcM&feature=player_embedded
[09:57:24] <skunkworks> Gromits: it loads the manual-example.ui
[09:57:29] <skunkworks> in the glade editor
[09:59:01] <skunkworks> it works for RIP if you run it from terminal with the enviroment set.
[09:59:28] <skunkworks> if I just run glade from a newly opened terminal - it errors with what you have
[10:01:05] <skunkworks> so if I go into my RIP directory - then do . ./scripts/rip-environment
[10:01:32] <skunkworks> then run glade - it opens the configs/gladevcp/manual-example.ui without issues
[10:04:07] <Gromits> AH, that was the problem. Thanks!
[10:50:18] <IchGucksLive> hi all around the world
[10:52:37] <mshaver> pcw_home: Any luck finding the v6 8i20 firmware?
[10:52:56] <syyl> hmm
[10:53:21] <syyl> be aware of titanium swarf ;)
[10:53:21] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3t4_hn4H4&list=UUY8gSLTqvs38bR9X061jFWw&index=1&feature=plcp
[10:59:52] <mrsun> ough, it just wont get straight
[11:00:08] <mrsun> dipp at the middle of the table, im scraping and scraping and i never get there :P
[11:02:22] <Jymmm> mrsun: try an angle grinder =)
[11:02:27] <mrsun> nooooo
[11:02:29] <mrsun> =)
[11:02:48] <mrsun> was going to surface grind it today, well the surface grinder i have access to was off by 0.1mm over 200mm ... so no thz
[11:02:51] <mrsun> thx
[11:02:52] <Jymmm> 16" gas powered chop saw?
[11:04:01] <mrsun> thinking of calling it quits and assemble the damn thing now, i want to be able to make stuff, tho i would probably just make a knife to killmyself with :P
[11:06:09] <syyl> angle grinder is the chinese way...
[11:06:44] <syyl> an surface grinder thats 0,1mm off?
[11:07:09] <syyl> from the early 1800?
[11:07:26] <mrsun> syyl, no i guess its due to the dents in the magnetic table its so off
[11:07:37] <mrsun> aparently they have used it to throw junk on or something
[11:07:39] <mrsun> atleast looked like it
[11:07:42] <syyl> great
[11:07:48] <syyl> seems to be a great shop ;)
[11:08:44] <mrsun> syyl, they dont use it much
[11:08:52] <mrsun> its a sheet metal workshop
[11:08:58] <syyl> ah ok
[11:09:09] <syyl> thats an unusual place for a surface grinder :D
[11:09:32] <mrsun> syyl, they have a mill, lathe, surface grinder etc for when doing some work/tool restoration etc
[11:09:43] <mrsun> flattening tools for a pullmax etc
[11:09:53] <syyl> makes sense
[11:10:09] <syyl> sharpening the blade of a big sheet metal shear maybe
[11:11:23] <mrsun> im starting to think of lapping the table, ive got most of it straight, shouldnt that work for the rest? put a piece of abrasive on the surface plate and just stand there and rub the thing :P
[11:11:35] <mrsun> tho i guess uneven presure is the enemy there
[11:11:37] <syyl> you need a biax
[11:11:43] <mrsun> syyl, yees
[11:11:48] <mrsun> but they are expensive :(
[11:12:04] <syyl> hmm
[11:12:04] <syyl> no good milling machine aroung?
[11:12:17] <mrsun> syyl, nop :(
[11:12:20] <syyl> damn
[11:12:33] <mrsun> http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/home-made-power-scraper-137365/index2.html =)
[11:13:10] <syyl> know also somebody you modified a sabresaw
[11:13:14] <syyl> to a power scraper
[11:13:18] <syyl> works ok for him
[11:13:32] <syyl> (i am still looking for a biax ;) )
[11:13:53] <syyl> but i have to guys that own one and are willing to lend it to me..
[11:14:00] <mrsun> actualy im thinking of making my own design fromg round up =)
[11:14:28] <IchGucksLive> http://lowcostcutter.com/
[11:14:39] <IchGucksLive> cheep and doing therejpb
[11:14:46] <IchGucksLive> there job
[11:15:58] <IchGucksLive> and if you need to mill your house -> well thats the way to do it ->http://www.ebay.de/itm/CNC-Wood-Engraving-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-Router-1312-50-x47-2-2KW-spindle-/120833940263?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c22439b27
[11:16:49] <syyl> such a big machine and so cheap komponents?
[11:16:52] <syyl> no tool changer?
[11:16:54] <syyl> steppers?
[11:16:55] <syyl> mhm
[11:17:25] <IchGucksLive> its based at Doppel Pull Nema23
[11:17:38] <IchGucksLive> but with 2,2KW tool
[11:17:51] <IchGucksLive> M542 inside
[11:17:57] <IchGucksLive> http://www.ebay.de/itm/CNC-3020-Router-Engraver-Drilling-Milling-machine-Neu-/280680085334?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DDLSL%252BSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D120833940263%252B120833940263%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5886121984884536286
[11:18:20] <IchGucksLive> a quater the price for home aplication
[11:19:13] <IchGucksLive> sorry for the long link
[11:19:26] <IchGucksLive> by till the hour time
[11:19:54] <syyl> the spindle motor seems to be a joke
[11:20:03] <mrsun> 399 euro shipping ...
[11:20:03] <mrsun> right
[11:20:18] <syyl> looks like a m240 servo with collet chuck...
[11:20:53] <awallin> bent sheet-metal, not really alu-extrusions...
[11:21:15] <syyl> "but its cheap"
[11:21:17] <syyl> mh
[11:21:25] <syyl> i dont have enough money to buy cheap :D
[11:23:42] <syyl> that titanium is tough to machine...
[11:23:43] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/2012-01-25_18-19-25_52.jpg
[11:24:05] <syyl> bandsaw took over 30min for one cut trough 40x55mm cross section
[11:30:03] <mrsun> hmm, make a scraper attachment for angle grinders? :P
[11:32:15] <mrsun> http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-pneumatic-scraper-kit-95826.html or that :P
[11:32:37] <syyl> i think that makes to little stroke
[11:33:00] <syyl> and way to fast ;)
[11:33:00] <mrsun> mm
[11:33:09] <archivist> that is a rough cleaning scraper
[11:38:27] <mrsun> 10k strokes/min to much ? :)
[11:40:24] <mrsun> aparently biax has about 1900
[11:40:28] <mrsun> or up to 1900
[11:43:25] <pcw_home> mshaver: they are doing a last few tests, andwll forward it to you in about 20 mins
[11:43:48] <mshaver> pcw_home: Great!
[11:49:18] <awallin> hmm, via hackaday: http://home.comcast.net/~sskroch/Fengrave/fengrave.html
[11:54:57] <mrsun> nice, and its python =)
[12:08:32] <IchGucksLive> hi all around the world
[12:21:12] <TRW_Ags_Mx> Hi is there some methodology (like the Z-N for PID) to select the feedforward parameters (FF0 FF1 FF2)?
[12:34:42] <mrsun> hmm, with some fast tramming of the spindle ive got about 0.01mm diff over the table ... and that is from a machine i couldnt tram before cause everything was off by i dont know how much =)
[12:34:58] <mrsun> and the tramming isnt perfect yet either =)
[12:35:17] <awallin> TRW_Ags_Mx: turn off PID. set following error limit really large. then try some gentle moves and minimize the following error by tuning FF
[12:36:10] <IchGucksLive> mrsun: good for the start what way is the table
[12:36:23] <mrsun> IchGucksLive, what way? :)
[12:36:38] <mrsun> the diff im experiencing it hink is due to the unscraped part of the table =)
[12:37:45] <mrsun> hmm, if tehre is a 0.01mm diff, if i would drill right throught a piece, how much off would the hole be on the oposite side? .. the pice is 90mm long =)
[12:38:08] <TRW_Ags_Mx> awallin: and after that should i turn on the PID an tuning just that part?
[12:38:57] <awallin> TRW_Ags_Mx: I think you leave FF at the best you found, and then tune PID to minimize following error again.
[12:40:10] <awallin> TRW_Ags_Mx: some FF1 pictures of mine from a while back: http://www.anderswallin.net/2008/04/x-axis-test/
[12:41:30] <TRW_Ags_Mx> awallin: thanks
[12:42:09] <mrsun> now i just need to make some motor mounts and im good to go with the mill =)
[12:42:16] <mrsun> until next time i feel like scraping ....
[12:43:46] <IchGucksLive> mrsun: tzerfor i need to know the messurments of the 0.01 mm
[12:44:11] <IchGucksLive> 400mm 0.01 or 100mm 0.01
[12:44:19] <IchGucksLive> is quit diferen
[12:44:42] <IchGucksLive> awallin: still fighting ZJ
[12:46:28] <syyl> sounds good mrsun
[12:46:35] <syyl> any chance for pictures? ;)
[12:46:51] <syyl> i showed my scraped vice too
[12:46:52] <syyl> :D
[12:53:12] <pcw_home> TRW_Ags_Mx: if you have a velocity mode loop and you scale the PID parameters correctly FF1 should be 1
[12:54:57] <TRW_Ags_Mx> pcw_home: im using a torque loop shuold i have the same result?
[12:56:13] <IchGucksLive> syyl: http://foengarage.de/cnc6.jpg befor demounting last mill
[12:56:21] <pcw_home> No, torque loops need little FF1. I think awallins drive is not true torque but rather a bare Hbridge, that needs FF1
[12:56:30] <syyl> not you, IchGucksLive
[12:57:34] <IchGucksLive> syyl: tomorrow i will finish my new test router for education twith the size of the old one
[12:57:44] <syyl> stop highlighting me
[12:57:46] <syyl> please
[12:57:47] <syyl> ...
[12:57:57] <IchGucksLive> B)
[12:58:40] <pcw_home> You can see why a velocity loop wants FF1 (so the output of the PID loop matches the requested velocity before any feedback)
[12:59:10] <pcw_home> s/requested/commanded/
[13:01:28] <andypugh> British PID loops are more polite, they have a requested value.
[13:01:49] <syyl> Oo
[13:01:54] <syyl> what? :D
[13:02:04] <IchGucksLive> O.o
[13:04:32] <pcw_home> Just trying to match LinuxCNCs nomenclature.
[13:04:33] <pcw_home> actually I dont think the TP provides a commanded velocity
[13:06:19] <pcw_home> I think our SoftDMC is even more polite it just provides a Desired_Position
[13:11:33] <mrsun> syyl, haha =) the table is a shame tho ... but i can try and get some tomorrow of the little parts ive photographed
[13:13:32] <mrsun> IchGucksLive, about 200mm
[13:17:49] <IchGucksLive> so then a 90mm drill will fail at 0.0043
[13:19:05] <IchGucksLive> i think the drill will nor fail on the table more likly to fail on the drillbit sharpness
[13:19:40] <IchGucksLive> O.O
[13:20:12] <mrsun> wait a minute :P
[13:20:17] <mrsun> you were talking about that? :)
[13:20:49] <mrsun> well for starters dont bother with it, as the calculations from me is wrong anyways, the whole will be about 40mm long =)
[13:21:43] <IchGucksLive> then have that amount almost
[13:22:10] <mrsun> so 0.0043 mm off "center" on the other side of the part ?
[13:22:29] <IchGucksLive> half that yes
[13:23:14] <IchGucksLive> 0,01mm on 200mm or is it 0,1mm
[13:23:49] <IchGucksLive> if so its 0,025 off center
[13:25:04] <IchGucksLive> everithing unter 0,2mm per 100mm table is good for short parts
[13:25:15] <mrsun> hmm, i guess i will see to it that the piece is accurate to the Z axis before drilling also :P
[13:25:41] <IchGucksLive> are you dong Space parts
[13:25:48] <IchGucksLive> doing
[13:26:06] <mrsun> IchGucksLive, stepper motor mounts <> space parts ... same thing diferent names? :P
[13:26:07] <IchGucksLive> B) O.O :xd
[13:26:30] <IchGucksLive> i did this also today
[13:26:53] <IchGucksLive> but i think you do direct Drive
[13:27:22] <mrsun> yes, motor is mounted to the screw with a bushing
[13:27:26] <IchGucksLive> http://www.sammellothar.de/x-rahmen.mpg
[13:27:39] <IchGucksLive> im on timing belt
[13:27:54] <mrsun> a bit more forgiving isnt it? :)
[13:28:11] <mrsun> i need to redo the screws also, as they are off center at the end :/
[13:28:22] <IchGucksLive> gives a better stepper smoothness
[13:28:39] <IchGucksLive> at 15USD more
[13:28:47] <mrsun> so cut, weld new stock and work in the lathe ... gonna cut the threads in the lathe in same setup this time also, not use a threading thingie =)
[13:29:21] <IchGucksLive> why not ready made ones
[13:29:22] <mrsun> IchGucksLive, its a sieg X1, have a hard time fitting belts :( bought before to be able to but the pulleys didnt match the timing belts i got ... kinda mad over that =)
[13:29:47] <mrsun> the screw is ready made, its the part that goes throught the bearings and to the motor i need to redo =)
[13:30:08] <IchGucksLive> oh Timing belt in inch 5.08 and pulley in metric 5mm Where
[13:30:35] <mrsun> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/WankelCNCMill.JPG ofc i could make it like that :P
[13:30:54] <IchGucksLive> im overthinking the hole konsept as there are now dealers for cnc parts alover and the price is rapedly thinking
[13:31:35] <IchGucksLive> got harden round steel D16mm 1m for under 10 euros with shipping
[13:31:56] <IchGucksLive> the Ballbearings 20 for 20Euros
[13:32:05] <IchGucksLive> 20pices
[13:32:53] <IchGucksLive> so i go for 500x500x500
[13:33:23] <IchGucksLive> the hole construckt at 40 square mm
[13:34:15] <mrsun> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/Widgit/Turret20012.jpg oo i like those little jacks for parts hanging out, have to make some of those =)
[13:35:26] <IchGucksLive> the red mark of max x is god
[13:35:33] <IchGucksLive> By for mee
[13:39:32] <andypugh> mrsun: You can buy machinists jacks, though making them might be more fun.
[13:39:54] <mrsun> andypugh, ye its not like its hard parts to do, a cast piece of alu, thread it and stick a bolt in it :P
[13:47:57] <andypugh> I think they should be cast iron, for stiffness.
[13:49:54] <archivist> I got a couple of jacks that seem to be apprentice made (well made)
[13:50:12] <archivist> solid steel body
[13:51:43] <mrsun> i guess one could make them in steel also =)
[13:51:52] <mrsun> alittle harder to work with :P
[13:53:34] <syyl> i dont think that stiffness is a problem with jacks
[13:53:52] <syyl> as most of the load they get is in axial direction
[13:54:38] <mrsun> mm
[14:03:12] <mrsun> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/OthersProjects/HFToolPostGrinder.jpg lets destroy a lathe? :P
[14:03:30] <syyl> yeah :D
[14:04:42] <andypugh> I have made more elegant ones.
[14:05:01] <syyl> jacks?
[14:05:20] <andypugh> Toolpost grinders
[14:05:36] <archivist> I have used a dremel for toolpost abuse
[14:05:44] <andypugh> Mine has a trough to attempt to catch the swarf, and I generally put some polythene down.
[14:06:05] <syyl> covering the ways while grinding is a good idea :D
[14:06:15] <andypugh> Aye, I have used a Dremel-clone too, to cutting down test-tubes. I broke the end off of it.
[14:06:58] <archivist> ! catching the americanism off of
[14:07:51] <andypugh> I was making this: http://www.atp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/CanYouTellWhatItIsYet.jpg
[14:08:13] <archivist> led clock
[14:08:21] <andypugh> Laser
[14:08:35] <andypugh> Well, both, I suppose.
[14:09:25] <andypugh> quarter-past-midnight: http://www.atp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/BigHand.jpg
[14:09:26] <archivist> it is time I made a clock for me
[14:09:42] <syyl> thats cool
[14:09:43] <syyl> :)
[14:10:12] <mrsun> andypugh, oo i like
[14:10:17] <mrsun> like having a clock in the whole room :P
[14:24:36] <Gromits> Does anyone have example Gladevcp files (.ui, .hal. and .py) they are willing to share? I am having some problems getting a basic config to work and I think some real-world examples would be useful. I have read the manual as it is and seen the simple examples contained there, but they aren't very real-world...
[14:25:03] <gene76> Hi all, got a head scratcher here, named parameter not terminated, line of code is "o100 call [#_z-tmp>]"
[14:25:16] <gene76> Hi all, got a head scratcher here, named parameter not terminated, line of code is "o100 call [#<_z-tmp>]"
[14:27:14] <archivist> try without _ and -
[14:28:21] <gene76> it was declared global because local gave the same error. Can I not use dashes in named vars?
[14:29:42] <archivist> depends how well the gcode parser is written
[14:30:37] <gene76> I'll switch to underscaores for nsme separators then, back in a few as that will be lots of editing
[14:30:40] <archivist> but a - could be interpreted as minus
[14:32:50] <gene76> well:
[14:32:57] <gene76> #<_ztmp> = 0.005
[14:32:58] <gene76> g0 x0y0
[14:33:00] <gene76> o200 while [#<_ztmp> gt #<_z-depth>]
[14:33:01] <gene76> #<_ztmp> = [#<_ztmp> + #<_step2depth>]
[14:33:03] <gene76> o100 call [#<_ztmp>]
[14:33:04] <gene76> o200 endwhile
[14:33:10] <gene76> is still the same error
[14:33:30] <archivist> still have a - there
[14:34:45] <gene76> the call is line 40 and, why is it not complaining about the initial assignments and math on those assignments at the top of the file?
[14:38:37] <gene76> I took all the - out of the names, same error, same line 40
[14:39:56] <gene76> time for some debug prints I guess.
[14:44:39] <gene76> Heck, it won't even give me a (debug, print [#<Zdepth>]) at line 3 of the file. WTH?
[14:48:04] <archivist> one thing I have noticed in one version is an off by one error in the error report is the error in line 39 or41
[14:49:19] <gene76> I put a blank line on both sides of it, the error line incrementd by 1.
[14:49:43] <gene76> That has generally been since forever that the real error is in the previous line
[14:50:42] <gene76> I have an o100 sub, o100 endsub defined above, so the o100 call s/b legal
[14:52:17] <gene76> back is killing me, feet are chillin and the coffee cup is empty, that last I can fix, brb.
[14:57:40] <tom3p> fwiw: xenomai ubuntu howto xenobuntu http://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.2336.pdf
[14:57:42] <tom3p> and this claim to linux rtos 10uSec latency with PII advanced realtime linux project http://art-linux.sourceforge.net/ ( 10uS latency on PII at sourceforge hoepage )
[15:01:19] <andypugh> gene76: You have a z-depth still, or has that gone now?
[15:04:33] <Gromits> JT-Shop: do you have Gladevcp working?
[15:07:10] <gene76> I think so, I just put the whole thing, about 43 lines at <http://pastebin.ca/2106594>
[15:10:01] <gene76> FWIW Andy, this is probably the last 2.6.0-pre version before he EMC batallion of lawyers called
[15:12:04] <gene76> I just found a missing > in ine 22, but that had no effect
[15:15:11] <gene76> I just found a missing > in ine 18, now have bad number format, same line
[15:26:15] <cradek> #[<Ylocal>] = #[<_Yfront>]
[15:26:41] <cradek> this is the line that's wrong
[15:36:03] <gene76> Going to a hard number fixed it Chris, but why couldn't I make that assignment?
[15:36:19] <gene76> Thanks Chris
[15:36:46] <cradek> I think you might have meant #<Ylocal> = #<_Yfront>
[15:38:04] <cradek> I think most of the [] in your program are unneeded
[15:38:18] <cradek> I think you only need those when you want to do math
[15:38:38] <cradek> and to put them between # and < is a syntax error
[15:40:55] <gene76> I see, thanks
[15:47:14] <JT-Shop> Gromits: yes, in two machines
[16:33:55] <Gromits> JT-Shop, could you post them somewhere so I could look at the configs (.hal, .ui, .py)?
[16:38:52] <Valen> i bet the emc lawyers thing was because emc was showing up higher than their company in google
[16:38:57] <Gromits> Need to leave, but will check back later....
[17:39:30] <andypugh> MattyMatt: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STADIUM-5-2V-12V-12V-24V-34V-TRANSFORMER-POWER-SUPPLY-/260937599853
[17:40:16] <Valen> these might beat the beagle boards for emc perhaps http://www.raspberrypi.org/
[17:40:21] <Valen> GPIO ftw?
[17:41:11] <Valen> 256mb ram could be a bit of an issue
[17:41:15] <Valen> (as could the arm cpu)
[17:51:44] <skunkworks> I have been having good luck with asus motherboards and amd processors. (latency wise)
[17:52:01] <skunkworks> but the atom boards seem to work great also
[17:56:48] <PCW> andypugh: what did you need in your 5i23 bitfile? (I'm baking bitfiles today)
[17:57:19] <skunkworks> mmmm... love the smell of bitfile baking
[17:59:58] <JT-Shop> the status 2 from the GS2 drive is the sum of the numbers for each status message, so 160 is both 128 and 32... I need some inspiration to display the status message in gladevcp :)
[18:00:39] <pfred1> woah IRC really got fouled up last night
[18:01:27] <skunkworks> so - is it 1, 2, 4, , 16, 32,.... 128 ?
[18:01:32] <JT-Shop> yea
[18:01:33] <skunkworks> for each error?
[18:01:35] <skunkworks> ah
[18:01:45] <skunkworks> how many errors?
[18:02:00] <andypugh> PCW: 8xsserial on P4, 7i39 on P3, encoders and at least 1 PWM on P2.
[18:02:08] <JT-Shop> for each status, so 163 is run + a couple of non important ones
[18:02:16] <JT-Shop> 0 -256
[18:02:48] <JT-Shop> really I only want 0 - 24
[18:02:56] <andypugh> JT I asked psha for a widget to decode binary, perhaps it exists?
[18:03:12] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[18:03:25] <andypugh> The idea was integer in to 8 LEDS
[18:04:13] <pfred1> andypugh you were right look how Toshiba fooled me http://i.imgur.com/ZkAaP.jpg
[18:04:20] <JT-Shop> so a bit more reading and only one can be active between 0 - 24 but could also have 32 + 128 tacked on
[18:04:59] <pfred1> andypugh in the text they keep on going M1 M2 M1 M2 then in the table they put it M2 M1 !
[18:05:03] <andypugh> So, ON == pulled-down?
[18:05:18] <pfred1> well there is that too
[18:05:18] <andypugh> Ah, no, switched order.
[18:05:38] <pfred1> but why would you make a table with 2 first and 1 second?
[18:05:57] <pfred1> my fault I didn't notice it but still
[18:06:06] <andypugh> Big-endian?
[18:06:21] <pfred1> yeah I got it big endian in the end alrighty
[18:07:02] <pfred1> I think I was running 4W1-2 phase instead of just 1-2 phase
[18:08:04] <pfred1> I might evne go back ot it and just set my microsteps correctly because half steping my mechanics is a bit spooky
[18:08:32] <JT-Shop> Andy, I think I can do it based on the example mhaberler did for me for the Fwd Rev label :)
[18:09:03] <andypugh> 4x or 8x might be a good compromise
[18:09:41] <andypugh> Depending on the mechanics you might never get close to running out of step rate.
[18:09:56] <pfred1> andypugh that and when I was changing the mode on my driver i totally blew up my driver IC last nite but I think it just shorted out when I was on the board I don't know what happened
[18:10:25] <andypugh> TB6560?
[18:10:29] <pfred1> yes
[18:10:42] <pfred1> but a homemade board there is a chance it could have shorted under
[18:11:01] <andypugh> They _hate_ it if you disconnect one motor phase, make sure the motor terminals are solid
[18:11:02] <pfred1> it is likely what happened it just happened when I was changing the mode
[18:11:19] <pfred1> well they also hate when the motor output shorts to ground
[18:11:22] <andypugh> Power off before changing _anything_
[18:11:35] <pfred1> andypugh it is what i plan on doing from here on in
[18:11:54] <pfred1> though I don't think that is what caused it I'm sure I've changed mode running with impunity in the past
[18:11:57] <andypugh> I found a chap source a little while back, but don't keep it.
[18:12:02] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: that doesn't make sense to me. I would think there would only 8 codes (8 bits - 255)
[18:12:14] <pfred1> andypugh the driver ICs?
[18:12:17] <andypugh> Yes
[18:12:28] <pfred1> mouser has them for $4.29 USD
[18:12:45] <andypugh> That will do. I am in the UK, and RS don't list them.
[18:13:08] <pfred1> I hear about people having difficulties sourding things out of the US a lot
[18:13:14] <pfred1> sourcing things even
[18:13:32] <pfred1> what is wrong with all of you people :)
[18:13:59] <pfred1> actually I think it might be the case that things are too easy to buy in the US
[18:14:05] <JT-Shop> 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 24 - 32 - 64 - 128 - 256 are the status numbers
[18:14:14] <andypugh> PCW: Do you know off-hand what the threshold is in the 7i39 Hall sensor inputs? I am only seeing 0.72V out of my sensors, and I can't decide if that is because something is wrong, or if that is what worked perfectly before.
[18:14:24] <andypugh> 3?
[18:14:38] <pfred1> JT-Shop who are you Fibonacci?
[18:15:05] <JT-Shop> who is that
[18:15:17] <andypugh> Some series dude
[18:15:23] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number
[18:15:23] <JT-Shop> I guess they are all unique numbers or something
[18:15:48] <andypugh> 3 and 24 don't belong in that series.
[18:16:05] <pfred1> it almost looks like if Fibonacci was a computer the list he'd generate
[18:18:44] <pfred1> andypugh I've heard of electronics being effectively described as the art of signal conditioning
[18:19:30] <andypugh> sounds fair
[18:19:50] <pfred1> andypugh thinking of it that way serves me well whenever I run into a glitch
[18:19:54] <andypugh> Arguably that describes all of science and engineering
[18:21:30] <andypugh> It's a good solid signal, just not the voltage I was expecting. I can easily boost it (I have lots of comparators) but I can't decide if that is just what these sensors do (and it all worked fine in the prototype) or if there is a problem on my board.
[18:22:06] <pfred1> I've built circuit prototypes that didn't work in the final version
[18:22:06] <andypugh> I didn't measure the signal before, I just connected to the 7i39 and it worked.
[18:22:07] <JT-Shop> the logic seems to be subtract the highest number you can until your at 0 and each number that fits is an active status message
[18:22:23] <pfred1> it is actually a pretty common thing to have happen with sensitive circutry
[18:22:55] <JT-Shop> status 1 is all the error codes and they are 00 - 20
[18:23:14] <pfred1> stuff like the breadboard's natural stray capacitance just made stuff work, or not
[18:23:37] <andypugh> pfred1: Yes, I built a very nice non-contacting capacitor bridge as a displacement transducer. The breadboard (push in) version worked a lot better than the PCB.
[18:23:52] <pfred1> yeah it can drive you nuts
[18:24:23] <pfred1> recently I got turned onto a prototyping technique i want to try out
[18:24:44] <pfred1> where you use a copper ground plane then stick on boards get stuck to it with circuit elements on it
[18:25:00] <pfred1> then your prototype can be your final version too
[18:25:12] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: you need the opposite of http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/weighted_sum.9.html
[18:25:51] <skunkworks> I don't see one.. you may have to make a simple comp... (I do the same for the gearshift - convert a number to 4 bits)
[18:26:32] <skunkworks> (0-15 = 0000 to 1111)
[18:27:01] <andypugh> Cool circuit, by the way. The transducer was two coaxial tubes on the machine frame. then I set up a bridge of a centre-tapped transformer and 2 capacitors, one variable trimmer to null it out, and the other was the tubes. Then an op-amp perfect diode as a rectifier. I wanted something where the sensor was cheap and tough, as the machine did 0 to 50mph in 12mm and didn't always stop.
[18:27:54] <pfred1> andypugh sounds very sensitive to me
[18:28:19] <skunkworks> sc1sol=Gear & 1 ;
[18:28:21] <skunkworks> sasol=Gear & 2;
[18:28:22] <skunkworks> sc2sol=Gear & 4;
[18:28:23] <andypugh> The inverse function of weighted-sum is select8, that will do what you want.
[18:28:24] <skunkworks> sssol=Gear & 8;
[18:28:32] <JT-Shop> I'm thinking I can do it in the python file like this http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=48&id=16439&start=12
[18:28:34] <skunkworks> heh - really?
[18:28:53] <andypugh> Ah, no.
[18:29:22] <andypugh> it probably ought to be
[18:29:59] <pfred1> a 74154 takes 16 inputs and spits out 4 bit binary :)
[18:30:20] <pfred1> I made a cool scanning hexadecimal keypad out of one once
[18:31:13] <andypugh> skunkworks: JT-Shop: Match8
[18:31:34] <andypugh> No, sorry. wrong again
[18:32:11] <JT-Shop> I still need to toss out 32, 64, 128, and 256 which I don't care about
[18:32:21] <skunkworks> heh - I thought I looked at them all
[18:32:37] <andypugh> Well, you just wouldn't net the unwanted ones
[18:32:51] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: right - but if you made a generic one - youwould not connect those
[18:32:53] <andypugh> skunkworks: I think you did
[18:32:54] <skunkworks> heh
[18:32:55] <JT-Shop> but I have to subtract them from the number
[18:33:15] <andypugh> No.
[18:33:19] <skunkworks> no - you would take the number and 'convert' it to bits.
[18:33:25] <skunkworks> then use the bits you want
[18:33:32] <JT-Shop> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc2-dev.git/blob/5344f5739076c07a39d1dfa77523bc7efbd8e4ca:/configs/gladevcp/label/label.py
[18:33:52] <andypugh> bit-N-out = input & 1 << N
[18:36:22] <skunkworks> so 160 would be 10100000
[18:36:51] <andypugh> And set ouptputs 7 and 5
[18:37:22] <andypugh> There does seem to be a missing component there
[18:39:28] <andypugh> I think it will take longer to think of a name than to write an push it.
[18:40:15] <JT-Shop> I still think I need to do this in python to get my gladevcp label to give me meaningful information
[18:42:01] <skunkworks> binarydemux?
[18:43:50] <JT-Shop> kinda like if => 256 subtract 256 now if => 128 subtract 128 to get down to the numbers I'm interested in
[18:44:59] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Sounds like a fun widget. You could have one which has 8 different strings and displays then in sequence if the bits are set (we have very similar things to display errors at work)
[18:45:35] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes, but it's easier to bitmask with 1 << N
[18:46:16] <JT-Shop> bitmask?
[18:46:53] <MattyMatt> andypugh nice psu for TB6560 :) I think I will
[18:47:32] <andypugh> You might want to check the current rating, but I guess it will be like the others he has, and be "lots"
[18:48:10] <MattyMatt> yep the other had plenty on 24V and 50V, but only 2A on 12V but that's fine
[18:48:36] <andypugh> I would guess it actually drove steppers and TB6560s to make the wheels on a fruit-machine go round. Use Mach3 for the full Fruit-Machine experience.
[18:48:37] <pfred1> this is the PSU I made http://www.instructables.com/id/300-Watt-Linear-Power-Supply/
[18:49:23] <MattyMatt> I assume all these modern fruities are using chopping drivers on the 12V solenoids
[18:49:29] <pfred1> it can fry a TB6560 pretty good
[18:50:16] <andypugh> pfred1: Did you see the eBay ones? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRANSFORMER-5V-12V-12V-24V-50V-POWER-SUPPLY-/260927741558 10A 50V for £20? plus all the other voltages, it's just not worth building a PSU
[18:50:30] <MattyMatt> yeah I still have my 9A 25V toroid to use, but I neglected the RMS to DC so it might end up too high for a TB6560
[18:50:37] <pfred1> andypugh mine was free
[18:50:47] <andypugh> I like free
[18:50:55] <pfred1> I made it out of junk i had laying about
[18:51:03] <andypugh> That's not free.
[18:51:16] <pfred1> Ok it didn't cost me anything better?
[18:51:16] <MattyMatt> I paid £9 + £10 shipping for the toroid iirc
[18:51:39] <andypugh> which sounds daft, but is actually fair.
[18:51:49] <MattyMatt> but I have it now, no more cash outlay (except maybe more caps, and a fuse)
[18:52:06] <andypugh> And a huge 34V Zener?
[18:52:14] <pfred1> what for?
[18:52:30] <pfred1> man don't pump 34V into a TB6560
[18:52:40] <andypugh> 32V?
[18:52:44] <pfred1> maybe
[18:52:59] <pfred1> my PSU can supply it
[18:53:11] <pfred1> it'll regulate 1.2 to 40 I think
[18:53:28] <MattyMatt> some giant white LEDs to drop 3.7V?
[18:54:01] <MattyMatt> that'll bring me into the safe zone, if I can afford 9A worth of leds
[18:54:01] <pfred1> max I'm getting out of mine now is 24V because I'm only using 20VAC transformer with it
[18:54:27] <pfred1> MattyMatt have a go at my circuit it is a beast
[18:54:39] <pfred1> well it isn't actually mine I found it on the net
[18:54:52] <pfred1> but I bult like a half a dozen similar ones it is the best
[18:55:19] <MattyMatt> yeah that looks OK
[18:55:43] <pfred1> evne if you have ot buy all the parts new they're cheap
[18:56:06] <MattyMatt> it's 2A per 2N3055 tho isn't it? so 6A max from that diagram?
[18:56:08] <pfred1> the power transistors you can use naything that has the voltage and current rating
[18:56:27] <pfred1> since whne were 2N3055s 2 amps?
[18:56:30] <pfred1> try 10 amps
[18:56:53] <MattyMatt> I have some 36A mosfets actually, that are no good for logic drive
[18:56:58] <pfred1> they'er good to like 115 watts each
[18:57:22] <pfred1> I used some beasts i dug out of an old NEC minicomputer
[18:57:39] <pfred1> not 2n3055s
[18:58:08] <pfred1> sweet house brand stuff for their own high end merch
[18:59:19] <MattyMatt> like the flyback transistors on crt. standard types were never enough to replace the exotic ones (which wern't enough either)
[18:59:46] <MattyMatt> it never occured to me to parallel them
[18:59:57] <MattyMatt> coulda saved lots of crts that way
[19:00:11] <pfred1> well then you have to current balance
[19:00:50] <Valen> fets current balance themselves generally
[19:00:53] <Valen> tempco is positive
[19:01:09] <andypugh> There is something gloriously Victorian about the "Cathode Ray Tube", the whole phrase denies the very existence of those new-fangled electrons.
[19:01:18] <Valen> andypugh: heh
[19:01:23] <JT-Shop> bitmask with 1 << N?
[19:01:28] <pfred1> andypugh yeah we are witnessing the end of an era
[19:01:35] <MattyMatt> hmmz. I do still have one crt with collapsed frame
[19:01:43] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes
[19:01:47] <pfred1> I'm using a CRT right now
[19:01:52] <JT-Shop> how does that work?
[19:01:59] <pfred1> last one i have in service in fact
[19:02:15] <pfred1> when it does that'll be it
[19:02:16] <pfred1> dies even
[19:02:24] <PCW> andypugh: freeby.mesanet.com/andy1.bit
[19:02:35] <MattyMatt> I want the pixel count, but not the desk space. ~4 sq ft for 2kx1.5k
[19:03:11] <MattyMatt> I'll give it a go. blender 2.5 really needs more than one LCD gives
[19:03:36] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Well, I am not sure about Python, but in C "1<<N" is 1 shifted N times. If you bitwise AND that with your original number and get a "yes" then that says that bit is set.
[19:03:56] <MattyMatt> scrolling toolbars looking for buttons sucks big
[19:04:07] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll see if I can finger that out
[19:04:41] <JT-Shop> light comes on in my head about bit masking from PLC programming
[19:06:12] <jdhNC> or (x&2^n)==n
[19:06:35] <pfred1> it seems all the neophites are all agog about 3D printers
[19:06:57] <pfred1> from what I've seen of consumer grade 3D printers they are little beter than waving around a hot glue gun
[19:07:25] <andypugh> I am due a large council-tax rebate. I accidentally paid direct debit and installments. That is going to become a 27" iMac. That's 2560x1440 and will be enough to be getting on with.
[19:07:58] <jdhNC> then you need dual 27"
[19:08:16] <pfred1> save it for oled
[19:08:45] <andypugh> It has an external monitor port, so I could add a second 27" matching monitor, but my council tax isnt that muc.
[19:08:57] <Jymmm> pfred1: rewinding microwave xfmr's is a good idea.
[19:09:13] <pfred1> Jymmm just don't be a dope like I did and cut off the primary
[19:09:20] <Jymmm> lol
[19:09:22] <pfred1> the heavy wire is the primary
[19:09:47] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: maybe as simple as this? http://pastebin.com/kSV26JY7
[19:09:50] <Jymmm> pfred1: multi-tap secondary?
[19:09:50] <skunkworks> untested
[19:10:03] <pfred1> Jymmm I don't know you hack it off
[19:10:12] <andypugh> My current 20" iMac wont run the 64-bit freeCAD build, or Lion. But the main plus is that I can give this machine to my parents and not have to support their hideous Celeron/Windows laptop any more.
[19:10:17] <Jymmm> pfred1: ah
[19:10:26] <pfred1> Jymmm then put 2 turns on it plug it in read what yo uget then calculate what you're going to need for your target voltage
[19:10:51] <Jymmm> pfred1: you unwind the WHOLE thing (secondary) ?
[19:10:59] <pfred1> yeah you chop it off
[19:11:05] <pfred1> then wind it by hand
[19:11:08] <pfred1> its not that bad
[19:11:30] <pfred1> you wind a heavier gauge wire because you want higher amps lower volts
[19:11:32] <Jymmm> chop off, as in hacksaw?
[19:11:40] <andypugh> Well, you could leave it on and unconnected for the exerimental one-turn phase
[19:11:49] <pfred1> yeah hacksaw chisel teeth people use a variety of methods to dig it out
[19:12:14] <pfred1> the big concern is to not damage the primary when you do it though
[19:12:25] <pfred1> drilling is a popular way to go
[19:12:26] <Jymmm> pfred1: you can't just pry apart the metal?
[19:12:31] <pfred1> they're welded
[19:12:34] <pfred1> the E plates
[19:12:46] <Jymmm> drill out the spot wolds?
[19:12:50] <Jymmm> welds
[19:12:59] <pfred1> I've heard of people suggesting it never heard of anyone actually successfully pulling one apart yet
[19:13:07] <Jymmm> heh
[19:13:10] <pfred1> looks laser or MIG to me
[19:13:15] <Jymmm> k
[19:13:19] <andypugh> Cut off the windings in bits, and accept that rewinding will be boring?
[19:13:30] <pfred1> andypugh pretty much it isn't that bad
[19:13:38] <pfred1> you have to wind something like 27 feet
[19:14:10] <pfred1> a big part of it is calculating your cross section and what gauge wire you can stuff in there
[19:14:23] <pfred1> but people worry about that when they make welders
[19:14:24] <andypugh> That's bearable. Wind it round a 1-foot stick until the stick won't fit an more.
[19:14:40] <pfred1> people use wedges to pack the windings
[19:14:51] <pfred1> if they really want to stuff wire in there
[19:15:04] <pfred1> but for CNC I don't thnk it'll be that tight
[19:15:17] <pfred1> you only want what 10-20 amps?
[19:15:21] <Jymmm> needing only 36v, shouldn't be too bad I think.
[19:15:32] <Jymmm> 700VA or so
[19:15:58] <pfred1> well the primary is rating 1000-1600 watts with engineering headroom
[19:16:08] <pfred1> so there's half your battle
[19:16:16] <andypugh> I had all sorts of plans to use my CNC to wind my motor, but then I decided I had enough wire to try it by hand and 20 minutes later I realised I had finished.
[19:16:42] <pfred1> andypugh and the relazed feeling you experienced was priceless
[19:16:47] <pfred1> relaxed even
[19:16:49] <Jymmm> how did you guys reattach the top of the e plate?
[19:17:00] <pfred1> you don't take it off
[19:17:06] <andypugh> We are saying leave it on
[19:17:07] <pfred1> you wind it by hand thread style
[19:17:12] <Jymmm> oh
[19:17:23] <pfred1> well least that is how everyone has done it to date
[19:17:40] <pfred1> it is a pain but it isn't the worst thing you can do
[19:18:11] <pfred1> the MW oven xformers I've seen there is no pulling them apart
[19:18:20] <Jymmm> can you reuse the wire you unwound in the first place?
[19:18:25] <andypugh> I think you could use a ruler (or similar) as a shuttle for the first half.
[19:18:29] <pfred1> no it is scrap bits and pieces
[19:18:44] <andypugh> Jymmm: It's too cheap to bother trying
[19:18:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: ah, ok.
[19:18:54] <pfred1> it is going to resemble a hairball more than anything else
[19:19:14] <Jymmm> so green pvc insulted gnd wire?
[19:19:24] <Jymmm> insulated
[19:19:32] <pfred1> you want an enamel wire that can handle temps
[19:20:05] <pfred1> hacking apart another xformer for its wire might be reasonable
[19:20:15] <Jymmm> enamel wire?! Really, shit, it'll cost me more to buy the wire than buy a xmfr
[19:20:15] <pfred1> then you know you have transformer wire
[19:20:53] <pfred1> speakers have crossovers with wire in them
[19:21:01] <pfred1> in nice spools
[19:21:34] <andypugh> Jymmm: It's cheap enough: http://www.maplin.co.uk/enamelled-copper-wire-44
[19:22:00] <pfred1> Jymmm no one ever said CNC was a cheap thing to do
[19:22:18] <andypugh> CNC is a cheap thing to do!
[19:22:33] <pfred1> andypugh we try but it doesn't always work out
[19:22:41] <pfred1> andypugh hey did you see my Z axis yet?
[19:22:42] <andypugh> Hah! you can't make that statement again!
[19:22:45] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Magnet-Enameled-Copper-0-0109-Diameter/dp/B000IJYRQQ
[19:23:30] <andypugh> pfred1: I don't think I did
[19:24:04] <pfred1> andypugh go see what $2.00 will buy you at a thrift store :) http://i.imgur.com/rUfIX.jpg
[19:25:03] <pfred1> for the first few inches i swear it has no play at all
[19:25:20] <andypugh> The caliper? the sash-cramps?
[19:25:22] <Valen> pfred1: i thaught that was a photo of my shed for a minute there
[19:25:40] <pfred1> Valen oh i have sloppy shop pics galore
[19:26:16] <Valen> it was jut the bench, the jumper cables, the box with the heatsink and using malamine around the place
[19:26:23] <andypugh> pfred1: Top-left, what's that?
[19:26:27] <Valen> then i saw the stepper and went BAH!
[19:26:31] <Valen> ;->
[19:26:54] <pfred1> andypugh on the bench or off?
[19:27:10] <pfred1> what color is what you're asking about mostly?
[19:28:18] <andypugh> pfred1: On the floor. Looks Vax-ish
[19:28:27] <pfred1> Valen this is the only particle board that is going to be in my project i think the rest is going to be plywood
[19:28:30] <Valen> has mill written on it
[19:28:54] <pfred1> oh that is a paper box a box paper came in says hammerMill
[19:29:28] <andypugh> That's disappointing
[19:29:36] <pfred1> sorry :(
[19:29:48] <jdhNC> everyone has vaxes laying around
[19:29:51] <pfred1> I had a PDP 11/34 and some NEC thing the size of a desk
[19:30:13] <pfred1> let me find a pic of what is left of my PDP
[19:30:18] <andypugh> It was only last year that my company scrapped the last PDP/11 running a dyno.
[19:30:38] <jdhNC> andypugh: I still have 2 11/73's in production.
[19:30:50] <pfred1> this was taken in my old garage http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5600/p3060008.jpg
[19:31:03] <andypugh> No reason why not, if the job hasn't changed, why change the hardware?
[19:31:09] <pfred1> those are the hard disk drives
[19:31:54] <pfred1> andypugh because electricity isn't free?
[19:31:57] <jdhNC> that, and there is ~$100k worth of other hardware in a camac crate attached to the PDP
[19:32:34] * JT-Shop is studying skunkworks example
[19:32:45] <pfred1> these look cool anyone interested in these? http://www.raspberrypi.org/
[19:32:57] <andypugh> Bear in mind that when I say "my company" I mean the world's 28th biggest company.
[19:33:00] <pfred1> $25 computer
[19:33:07] <jdhNC> pfred1: for $35, I'll buy one
[19:33:25] <pfred1> jdhNC ah I see the price has already inflated
[19:33:33] <jdhNC> no, the A version will be 25
[19:34:02] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: what does this line do bit0out=in & 1?
[19:34:03] <jdhNC> andypugh: no idea where we are ranked anymore (GE)
[19:34:06] <pfred1> it does look interesting
[19:34:22] <pfred1> jdhNC biggest tax thieves in history last i checked :)
[19:34:34] * JT-Shop company is pretty small with only 1.2 people
[19:34:40] <jdhNC> ^shrug^ as long as they pay me.
[19:34:48] <andypugh> jdhNC: Wikipedia has you at 18
[19:35:18] <pfred1> GE was Edison's old company
[19:35:36] <jdhNC> we are only 55% GE owned now (GE-Hitachi Nuclear)
[19:36:03] <skunkworks> it is bitwise :) it sets the bit0out to 1 if the first bit the binary is 1
[19:36:16] <JT-Shop> ah cool
[19:36:16] <andypugh> And easy to confuse with GEC/Marconi/whatever
[19:37:00] <pfred1> was Edison involved with Marconi?
[19:37:04] <JT-Shop> so does 0 1 2 3 4 8 16 24 follow bitwise?
[19:37:21] <jdhNC> not 24
[19:37:24] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Nearly. 3 and 24 are
[19:37:29] <andypugh> not right
[19:37:31] <skunkworks> 32
[19:37:37] <skunkworks> did I put 24?
[19:37:55] <JT-Shop> I kinda thought they were using something odd
[19:37:58] <pfred1> andypugh one of Edison's workshops is close to where I grew up so i got to toir it when I was a kid
[19:38:03] <andypugh> 24 is 16 and 8
[19:38:04] <pfred1> tour it even
[19:38:11] <JT-Shop> yea
[19:38:19] <pfred1> the one in East Orange
[19:38:23] <andypugh> pfred1: I seem to recall visiting.
[19:38:27] <skunkworks> ok - this actually builds http://pastebin.com/xckV8Yz4
[19:38:39] <pfred1> andypugh the one in East Orange?
[19:39:13] <andypugh> pfred1: No idea. East coast somewhere?
[19:39:21] <andypugh> skunkworks: Eeww!
[19:39:24] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.com/pDiwsfLv
[19:39:34] <skunkworks> andypugh: not pretty....
[19:39:52] <skunkworks> I like to call it brute force programming
[19:40:13] <andypugh> bit out bit-##-out[personality]
[19:40:33] <andypugh> then you can have arbitrary bit-width
[19:40:35] <pfred1> andypugh might have been Menlo Park you went to it is more famous
[19:40:50] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: does that handle the multiple messages though like 163 is 128 and 32 and 3
[19:40:58] <andypugh> Menlo Park is CA? Never been that far west
[19:41:16] <pfred1> nah Menlo Park is close to perth Amboy
[19:41:17] <jdhNC> edison menlo park is in NJ
[19:41:29] <andypugh> JT-Shop: 163 is three individual errors, I would warrant
[19:41:53] * pfred1 is a Jersy boy
[19:42:05] <andypugh> Maybe then, we drove from upstate NY to Key West and back
[19:42:14] <jdhNC> that's a helluva drive
[19:42:20] <pfred1> I've driven to Key West
[19:42:33] <pfred1> but only from upstate NJ
[19:42:37] <jdhNC> I've driven to perth amboy
[19:42:41] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.com/ECyHd3c6
[19:42:52] <skunkworks> that is 160.. wonder why unsigned shows as hex
[19:42:53] <pfred1> jdhNC hopefully with the vents on recorculate
[19:42:54] <JT-Shop> these are not errors but rather status messages
[19:42:57] <pfred1> recirculate!
[19:42:58] <andypugh> Yeah, we planned a circle, all the way round, but 55mph and 4 weeks and a Dodge Aspen...
[19:43:12] <JT-Shop> the errors are on status 1 and only one is allowed
[19:43:15] <pfred1> man it stinks down there
[19:43:22] <jdhNC> pfred1: nah, it was fine. Bought a boat nearby and sea-trialed it there
[19:43:49] <pfred1> it is a freaky part of the world
[19:43:52] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: all this does is takes a 8 bit number and converts it to 8 bits - so 160 would be 10100000
[19:43:52] <andypugh> skunkworks: Seriously, look at using personality and pin arrays, much neater.
[19:44:11] <skunkworks> andypugh: I know you are talking to me....
[19:44:14] <skunkworks> ;)
[19:44:40] <JT-Shop> I'm trying to understand but I'm having a blond moment
[19:44:42] <pfred1> now I'm wondering why I never went to menlo park myself
[19:44:54] <pfred1> I only lived about 15 miles from it
[19:46:59] * JT-Shop reads the manual again and it is a 16 bit number and they only use 9 bits
[19:47:10] * pfred1 's whole life has been one big blonde moment
[19:47:19] <JT-Shop> lol
[19:48:03] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfuWXRZe9yA
[19:48:17] <skunkworks> 16 bit?
[19:48:30] <JT-Shop> jambalaya time
[19:48:32] <JT-Shop> yea
[19:48:46] <skunkworks> same deal..
[19:49:01] <skunkworks> just need more bits - and only hook the ones up you neeed.
[19:49:29] <andypugh> skunkworks: 0139. Can I get this done before 0200? It's a work night an I am three glasses into my insomnia cure.
[19:49:44] <JT-Shop> so 3 is 2+1 which is different than 1 or 2...
[19:50:07] <JT-Shop> Andy I'm ahead of you by one...
[19:50:29] <pfred1> andypugh I stayed up too late last night don't do it
[19:50:57] <skunkworks> 3 would be 00000011
[19:51:01] <pfred1> the driver IC being fried though I couldn't just leave it
[19:51:05] <JT-Shop> seems to me the 3 and 24 complicate it somewhat
[19:51:27] <andypugh> pfred1: I was up till 4am tuesday, I am just not very good at sleeping
[19:51:45] * JT-Shop must go inside or be called late for dinner...
[19:51:54] <pfred1> I've never been any good at boolean algrbra and ven diagrams and all of that stuff
[19:52:10] <pfred1> andypugh hot shower
[19:59:44] <pfred1> dang what happened to winter here this year?
[20:00:30] <pfred1> the end of January and they are predicting 62F tomorrow
[20:09:55] <andypugh> JT-Shop: skunkworks: http://pastebin.com/sgs8rgeb
[20:10:21] <skunkworks> show off ;)
[20:10:55] <andypugh> loadrt antiimux personality=8 (personality=8,10,32 ought to work too, bit isn't tested)
[20:13:06] <andypugh> I just noticed that I exactly hit the deadline :)
[20:15:37] <skunkworks> heh'
[20:32:00] <andypugh> I will clean it up and push it tomorrow, I think it fits a requirement.
[20:32:10] <andypugh> But for now, goodnight.
[20:32:18] <pfred1> andypugh nite