#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-01-22

[05:34:58] <EmcPT> Can someone confirm that the S274NGC_STARTUP_CODE present in .ini file is not being read?
[05:35:35] <EmcPT> I even put some invalid code on it, and no error is displayed, so I assume it does not work.
[05:37:16] <jthornton> what is S274NGC_STARTUP_CODE
[05:37:18] <archivist> where did you find documentation for S274NGC_STARTUP_CODE
[05:39:33] <EmcPT> Should be the code (normally gcode modes like G20 G21) that your machine load at start
[05:40:20] <EmcPT> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[RS274NGC]-Section
[05:40:43] <jthornton> you left the R off
[05:41:00] <yoyo> hi
[05:41:29] <jthornton> if you misspell something in the ini it is just ignored
[05:43:11] <EmcPT> ok, did not try yet, but I used the sherlinne default file (that already was with the error then - if I did not changed by chance myself)
[05:45:04] <jthornton> none of the sherline configs contain S274NGC_STARTUP_CODE or RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE
[05:45:04] <EmcPT> Forget. That was added by me. My mistake on a copy paste. And it is working
[05:45:17] <EmcPT> yes, you are correct.
[05:45:40] <yoyo> can someone help me. I have new release of my software and I can't edit wiki page :/
[05:46:38] <jthornton> yoyo: new login password http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?BasicSteps
[05:46:59] <yoyo> jthornton: ok
[05:50:54] <yoyo> I'm happy to announce new release :) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GcodeGenerator
[05:51:50] <jthornton> cool
[05:52:04] <jthornton> yoyo: we are now known as LinuxCNC
[05:53:22] <jthornton> yoyo: did you put catnip in the helicopter frame?
[05:55:20] <yoyo> jthornton: he is so inquisitive
[09:07:11] <mrsun> hmm, http://i43.tinypic.com/nbrk89.jpg my breakout board is like that internaly, would it be wrong of me to put the + side of my inputs on the stepper drive to +5V and connect the out from that one to the - side of the input ?
[09:07:20] <mrsun> so when the opto goes high it shorts to gnd
[09:07:37] <mrsun> tried it the other way around to have the out to the drives and that didnt work very good =)
[09:09:01] <mrsun> http://www.brundin.biz/images/datasheets/CW6060ACElschemaV1-2.pdf according to that thats how i should connect it so i guess im good :P
[09:23:24] <andypugh> EmcPT: Hi, are you there?
[09:24:34] <andypugh> Bah!
[09:25:08] <andypugh> EmcPT: Hi
[09:25:43] <andypugh> I have looked at the way the tool table works, and I think I know how to do what you want.
[09:26:42] <andypugh> It ends up looking a lot like the Fanuc code you showed. Tool 1 tip 1 would be T11, tool 10 tip 9 would be T109
[09:30:28] <andypugh> All you then need to do is divide the tool-number by 10 (in HAL) before passing it to the carousel controller.
[09:46:34] <andypugh> In fact, you might be able to use the same syntax as Fanuc exactly, except that the "Pocket" numbers (which don't relate to actual carousel pockets in your case) can only go as high as 55. This only matters if you are using G43 Hn to load an offset unrelated to the tool.
[10:27:43] <micges> andypugh: hi
[10:40:22] <andypugh> Hi micges
[10:41:25] <micges> andypugh: did you used mesa 7i40?
[10:41:36] <micges> 2x brush dc driver
[10:41:44] <andypugh> Ah, no.
[10:43:42] <micges> so what types of mesa motor drivers you've used? and how many of them hm2 supports?
[10:44:27] * pfred1 guesses andypugh melted sand and made his own driver through sheer force of will
[10:44:47] <andypugh> I have used 7i39 and 8i20 so far.
[10:45:04] <pfred1> andypugh hmmm dissappointing
[10:45:30] <micges> andypugh: and both are ready to use in retrofits?
[10:45:38] <andypugh> Well, I have also made my own motor driver, but it blew up, and Pete sent me these lovely samples to write drivers for...
[10:46:06] <micges> heh
[10:46:14] <pfred1> see now thats what i love about electronics you never know when it is going to turn into pyrotechnics
[10:46:34] <andypugh> micges: I would say so, yes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47y6RgAK--8&feature=g-upl&context=G2e9cc87AUAAAAAAAMAA is a 7i39
[10:47:39] <micges> thanks
[10:48:19] <pfred1> so, DRI is like really bad when it comes to RTAI and Axis?
[10:51:56] <pfred1> as in libgl1-mesa-dri
[10:53:05] <pfred1> let me phrase it another way should I use libgl1-mesa-swx11 over libgl1-mesa-dri ?
[10:53:19] <andypugh> Graphics card?
[10:53:28] <pfred1> an ATI Rage 128
[10:54:24] <pfred1> I think I'm painted into a corner on this one because I can't even use the vesa driver with it
[10:56:00] <andypugh> I am afraid I can't offer any advice. I have only ever used onboard video except on my Mac Cube
[10:56:33] <pfred1> andypugh you are a rebel all docs say not to use on board video
[10:57:31] <andypugh> They warn against it, but if you have that option it might be worth a try. It's certainly no trouble at all with the Intel mini-ITX boards.
[10:57:47] <archivist> if onboard has its own video memory it should be ok
[10:58:39] <pfred1> I'm pretty sure this system shares system memory with on board video
[10:59:53] <Loetmichel> hmmm... i dont know if i have asked here already: anyone knows a 3d-CAD that is not tooo expensive and will be easy to learn, coming from Coral Draw 8 ( CD8 is no longer functioning under Win7 pro 64...)
[11:01:21] <archivist> Loetmichel, probably worth trying http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/free-cad/index.php?title=Main_Page
[11:02:12] <pfred1> I think I tried freecad and it doesn't support imperial measurements and the authros is hostile against it could have been another package though
[11:03:07] <pfred1> couldn't have been though because i sort of remember the stuff I used was 2D
[11:03:45] <Loetmichel> i think i have not layed enough emphasis on "i dont want to learn EVERYTHING new.
[11:04:05] <pfred1> Loetmichel then get the Corel that works on your system
[11:04:14] <archivist> you will have to to change system
[11:04:17] <Loetmichel> i.e.: is there a cad which runs under Win7 and is "lokk and feel" similar to Coreldraw 8?
[11:04:47] <archivist> you have two problems...windows and coreldraw
[11:04:55] <pfred1> I'd think Corel would offer some kind of an upgrade deal
[11:04:56] <Loetmichel> pfred1: X5 has no 3d, is overpriced and not really like CD8 for the GUI ;-)
[11:05:41] <pfred1> with CAD there is no such thing as over priced
[11:05:46] <Loetmichel> 7 versions later... does a lot to the gui
[11:05:53] <pfred1> there is only expensive and super expensive
[11:06:14] <Loetmichel> harhar, right, i feel that way, too.
[11:06:40] <pfred1> you can blow like 50 grand on a CAD package
[11:07:27] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Alibre is not at all bad, I paid actual money for it. Windows-only though.
[11:07:32] <pfred1> if it was me I'd setup a machine just to run the old package on
[11:07:51] <pfred1> computers can be cheaper than software
[11:08:06] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i'm afraid: not my price range ;-)
[11:08:38] <pfred1> Loetmichel you seem so tied to this old package wny not dedicate a machine to it?
[11:08:39] <Loetmichel> pfred1: thats what i am doing right now: runnung CD8 in a Vmware with Winxp
[11:09:30] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i am not tied to the old package, i am tied to the "not learning a new CAD so fast" ;-)
[11:09:55] <pfred1> well if it does what you need why get anything new
[11:11:25] <andypugh> Loetmichel: What is your price range? I think I paid £120 for it.
[11:12:22] <Loetmichel> 200-300eur would be the limit.
[11:13:03] <Loetmichel> pfred1: lets say i have found ways to work around the limitations/bugs of coreldraw8
[11:13:24] <Loetmichel> ... so i have even more reason to not want to learn a new one ;-)
[11:14:13] <pfred1> google sure returns a lot of results for Alibre torrent :)
[11:15:06] <Loetmichel> pfred1: i am the kind of guy who gets caught running over a red traffic light... in the middle of 20 other people.
[11:15:35] <Loetmichel> so: no illegal software for me ;-)
[11:16:10] <pfred1> yeah don't want ot end up like Kim Dotcom
[11:16:48] <pfred1> that was one thing I hated about Windows though was difficult to keep software on some OS upgrades
[11:17:08] <Loetmichel> pfred1: wouldnt because i am not as megalomanic ;-)
[11:17:53] <pfred1> I'm going to let this problem go until I get a new machine that might be the right fix for this
[11:18:00] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Alibre Design Personal is €199: http://www.battlogg.net/Alibre05/Products/products.html
[11:18:48] <andypugh> You can download a free trial from that page too.
[11:19:35] <pfred1> oh here is a question how do I get stepconf not to put DISPLAY = Axis into my ini file when I run it?
[11:21:47] <andypugh> pfred1: It looks like you can't, it seems that Stepconf only supports Axis. (It's a simple tool for simple people)
[11:22:21] <pfred1> andypugh stepconf has to be getting that string from somewhere
[11:22:46] <archivist> stepconf is write only, edit the file afterwards
[11:23:00] <pfred1> because any time I run it and save changes it puts it in there
[11:23:49] <archivist> stepconf needs a lot of fixing, you could do some of it
[11:24:22] <pfred1> archivist yeah i have this other issue with it where with my lead screw pitch it seems to move 10X less than it should
[11:24:50] <Jymmm> pfred1: EXCTLY 10x ?
[11:25:00] <archivist> that is a scaling/setting error
[11:25:00] <pfred1> Jymmm it sure looks like it to me
[11:25:05] <pfred1> ah ha
[11:25:21] <Jymmm> pfred1: Check your math/configuration.
[11:25:34] <Jymmm> any gearing?
[11:25:46] <pfred1> no I am just counting shaft revs right now
[11:25:49] <Jymmm> microstepping?
[11:26:36] <pfred1> like if it is supposed to be moving 2.4 inches it'll go 2.4 around instead of 24 times around
[11:27:53] <Jymmm> pfred1: Whats the pitch or TPI ?
[11:27:55] <pfred1> it is really obvious because I have a 10 TPI lead
[11:28:09] <Jymmm> microstepping?
[11:28:24] <pfred1> half step but that is set
[11:28:38] <Jymmm> what driver? Gecko?
[11:28:42] <pfred1> though if i lie and cheat on that i can get a lot faster run
[11:28:53] <pfred1> TB6560
[11:29:36] <pfred1> like if i say I'm in 8 microstepping but leave my driver in half step man it flies
[11:29:55] <pfred1> but I can never get it to go that fast set at half step
[11:30:09] <pfred1> but that is something else entirely
[11:30:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: is this USB ?
[11:31:02] <pfred1> this whole GL issue has really wreaked havoc with my performance tuning
[11:31:10] <pfred1> parallel port
[11:31:20] <pfred1> software stepping
[11:32:37] <Jymmm> So you told the software it's 2 step, but have it setup at 8step?
[11:32:43] <pfred1> no
[11:33:08] <Jymmm> pfred1: What are SW1 and Sw2 set at right now?
[11:33:19] <pfred1> I have at times set it to 8 step but ran in 2 step but I get the incorrect scale set at half step with the driver half stepping
[11:33:38] <pfred1> as in I've never seen it right
[11:33:57] <Jymmm> pfred1: What are SW1 and SW2 set at right now?
[11:34:00] <pfred1> no matter how i set it well it is right if I lie about the pitch
[11:34:46] <JT-Shop> the only number that matters is scale = number of pules to move one user unit
[11:34:48] <pfred1> my TB6560 doesn't have an SW1 or an SW2 it does have an M1 and M2 though
[11:34:56] <Jymmm> pfred1: which motors are you using?
[11:35:09] <Jymmm> pfred1: this is what I'm looking at http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhyu68.com%2FHY-TB4DV-M.htm&sl=zh-CN&tl=en
[11:35:16] <pfred1> a couple different ones
[11:35:25] <Jymmm> pfred1: What is the SCALE in LC ?
[11:35:29] <pfred1> 200 steps per rev
[11:35:30] <Jymmm> LC == LinuxCNC
[11:35:48] <pfred1> is that in my ini file?
[11:35:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: should be
[11:36:08] <Jymmm> something like 16000 iirc
[11:36:23] <pfred1> SCALE = 4000.0
[11:36:36] <Jymmm> pfred1: change it to 16000 and 8 microstep
[11:37:10] <pfred1> well can I change that in stepconf or do I need to hand edit it?
[11:37:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: doesn't matter
[11:37:29] <pfred1> it will nest time i run stepconf
[11:37:38] <pfred1> next time even
[11:37:47] <Jymmm> pfred1: ok change it by hand then
[11:37:54] <Jymmm> so if that fixes things
[11:38:03] <Jymmm> s/so/see/
[11:39:04] <pfred1> I'm going to have to write a whole sed script to patch up my ini file everytime i run stepconf
[11:39:23] <Jymmm> then dont run stepconfig, do it maually
[11:39:38] <pfred1> some things stepconf does are pretty handy
[11:39:46] <JT-Shop> quit running stepconf once you get past the basic settings
[11:39:53] <pfred1> like figure out my max frequency
[11:41:04] <pfred1> JT-Shop that is the goal and i thought I had it until my GL issue cropped up now it is all messed up again
[11:41:37] <pfred1> because the slower i set my motor's step frequency the longer Axis would run until it crashed
[11:41:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: 10 TPI Leadscrew * 200 SPR Motor * 8 Microstepping * 1 Gear_Ratio = 16,000 SCALE
[11:42:05] <pfred1> Jymmm I half step
[11:42:25] <Jymmm> pfred1: Then the microstepping would be 2
[11:42:25] <pfred1> if I did 8th step my motor would crawl like a slug
[11:42:44] <pfred1> but it'd run really smoothly
[11:43:12] <pfred1> heck this driver doesn't even do too badly on full step
[11:43:23] <Jymmm> pfred1: Then you might look at a better driver with higher voltage if your motors can handle that
[11:43:23] <pfred1> resonates somewhat
[11:43:38] <pfred1> just as soon as I hit the lottery
[11:43:59] <Jymmm> pfred1: ok
[11:44:02] <pfred1> nah these drivers are fine I made them myself
[11:44:42] <pfred1> I noticed last i looked I'm not pulling the amps i should be though
[11:45:17] <pfred1> but for the frequency this box can generate these drivers can more than keep up
[11:45:46] <pfred1> my maximum frequency is like 16kHz
[11:46:15] <pfred1> well, somewhere between 16kHz and 18500Hz that seems to be a point of contention now
[11:46:34] <pfred1> as in the jury is still out on exactly what is OK and what is out of bounds
[11:47:51] <pfred1> I've gotten some good speeds out of this setup but once i had GL issues now I don't know where I'm at anymore
[11:49:49] <pfred1> I can see this SCALE setting fixing my 10X rotation issue how come it is what it is though I have 10 TPI set in stepconf and my half stepping too
[12:15:44] <IchGucksLive> Hi all around the globe
[12:16:08] <pfred1> IchGucksLive hello
[12:16:38] <IchGucksLive> B)
[12:16:38] <pfred1> man this is wacky if I don't run Axis my Max Jitter is much lower
[12:17:49] <IchGucksLive> isent it the time gap on starting axis caused by bios
[12:19:00] <pfred1> heck I'm going to run with it wee what happens
[12:19:01] <IchGucksLive> pfred1: SMI inside
[12:19:41] <IchGucksLive> pfred1: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[12:19:54] <pfred1> been there done that
[12:20:22] <IchGucksLive> then im out this fixed all my latency problems
[12:21:01] <pfred1> IchGucksLive oh yeah? what is your latency?
[12:21:26] <IchGucksLive> 5600
[12:21:40] <pfred1> what CPU?
[12:22:23] <IchGucksLive> im running on 15000 oh i dont know the cpu got to look in the shop
[12:22:55] <IchGucksLive> this are all IBM A450
[12:23:49] <pfred1> I have a Gateway E-3400
[12:25:08] <IchGucksLive> did you disable Lapic ofcause you did
[12:25:22] <pfred1> I don't know
[12:26:12] <pfred1> how would I check?
[12:27:40] <IchGucksLive> does axis start on TRI
[12:27:47] <IchGucksLive> Realtime
[12:27:59] <pfred1> I don't use Axis
[12:28:15] <pfred1> but it starts
[12:28:23] <IchGucksLive> so its present
[12:28:26] <pfred1> it is running it has issues with
[12:28:46] <pfred1> my system has problems with my GL drivers
[12:29:14] <pfred1> so i just don't use GL while I'm running Realtime
[12:30:07] <IchGucksLive> is the latecy swap also on other programm load going up
[12:30:37] <pfred1> yes starting another program will spike my latency
[12:30:43] <IchGucksLive> 'glxgears'
[12:31:11] <pfred1> any GL program will make my X session crash if I am running the realtime extension
[12:31:28] <IchGucksLive> if it is only on startup forget it reset it after spike and keep watching
[12:31:32] <pfred1> so glxgears qualifies
[12:32:33] <IchGucksLive> what does dmesg say after spike
[12:33:14] <pfred1> nothing I can see
[12:33:55] <pfred1> I'm running EMC2 - 2.4.5 is it worth it to upgrade?
[12:34:16] <pfred1> I see there is a 2.4.6 and a 2.4.7 out now
[12:34:36] <IchGucksLive> 2.4.7 is the latest stable
[12:35:04] <IchGucksLive> i woudt go for this
[12:35:22] <pfred1> well i read the changelogs but they were sort of vague
[12:35:34] <pfred1> just said bug fixes or something to that effect
[12:35:56] <IchGucksLive> ita always improving
[12:36:03] <pfred1> was nothing that got me excited to download
[12:36:25] <IchGucksLive> never change a running system
[12:36:56] <pfred1> well I'm all for it running better I've places I could improve here
[12:37:17] <pfred1> this is in my dmesg RTAI[sched]: timer setup = 999 ns, resched latency = 2944 ns.
[12:37:45] <IchGucksLive> what mashine servo Stepper
[12:37:54] <pfred1> software stepper
[12:38:15] <IchGucksLive> how many steps/ref
[12:38:31] <pfred1> steps a rev?
[12:38:35] <IchGucksLive> yes
[12:38:43] <IchGucksLive> 200 400 800
[12:38:45] <pfred1> 800
[12:38:53] <pfred1> no wait 400
[12:39:06] <pfred1> it is a 200 step motor half stepping
[12:39:26] <IchGucksLive> this is good it will loose no step on your setup
[12:39:48] <IchGucksLive> Driver Gecko ?
[12:39:55] <pfred1> nah i made them myself
[12:40:05] <IchGucksLive> L297-298
[12:40:09] <pfred1> I made 2 different kinds
[12:40:19] <IchGucksLive> TB6560
[12:40:28] <pfred1> one is an allegro sla7026 the other is a TB6560
[12:40:48] <pfred1> I like the TB6560 better
[12:41:10] <IchGucksLive> i drive on TB6560 also at 15000 setup
[12:41:24] <pfred1> chinese board?
[12:41:35] <IchGucksLive> yes but improved
[12:41:48] <pfred1> ah you put better current ref resistors on it?
[12:41:51] <IchGucksLive> 1000% more fast effective
[12:42:08] <IchGucksLive> no changed all 24 Diods
[12:42:15] <pfred1> I think they come setup for 1 amp per phase or something like that
[12:42:45] <pfred1> that is the only downside to the TB6560 no adjustable current ref
[12:42:57] <IchGucksLive> and the wire setup wars redone by shild copper wire 0.7mm
[12:43:02] <pfred1> the allegro is much nicer that way
[12:43:23] <pfred1> allegro has a trim pot
[12:43:47] <IchGucksLive> does not effect on standart steppers Nema23
[12:44:03] <pfred1> what doesn't affect?
[12:44:12] <pfred1> the current you run?
[12:44:20] <IchGucksLive> the 2.5A gives at 50% 1.25A to the steppers
[12:44:47] <IchGucksLive> current is the key
[12:44:50] <pfred1> well TB6560 has % switches but it also has reference resistors
[12:45:15] <pfred1> Tb6560 also has capacitors that set its pulse width too
[12:45:21] <IchGucksLive> yes that makes the 2.5 3.5A stage
[12:45:35] <pfred1> nah them chinese boards mostly max at 1 amp
[12:45:49] <pfred1> you can't go beyond the refeence resistors
[12:45:54] <IchGucksLive> with the FR304
[12:46:08] <IchGucksLive> change it to UFD5407
[12:46:31] <pfred1> freewheeling diodes?
[12:46:33] <IchGucksLive> 500ns to 5ns
[12:46:47] <IchGucksLive> Ultra fast
[12:47:13] <pfred1> oh here is something how did you set up your pulse width?
[12:47:37] <IchGucksLive> same as Gecko 540
[12:47:44] <pfred1> pulse timing I think stepconf calls it
[12:48:08] <pfred1> I've no idea what a Gecko 540 is
[12:48:22] <pfred1> but I do know what nanoseconds are
[12:48:25] <IchGucksLive> i run on 100 velocity and 40m²s
[12:48:47] <IchGucksLive> 540 is in the list
[12:48:56] <IchGucksLive> to set timing
[12:49:07] <pfred1> oh i just entered numbers into the box
[12:49:24] <IchGucksLive> i woudt go if you do not need more then 600mm/min to 5000
[12:49:46] <pfred1> oh i need it as fast as it'll go
[12:49:50] <IchGucksLive> 20000 on Dir change
[12:49:55] <pfred1> maybe a little faster :)
[12:50:26] <IchGucksLive> so start with 1500 1500 5000 5000
[12:50:30] <pfred1> 100 velocity is mm?
[12:50:41] <IchGucksLive> per sec
[12:50:50] * pfred1 does imperial measurements
[12:51:07] <pfred1> metric is a tad too immature a system for me to use
[12:51:24] <pfred1> maybe in 1,000 years it'll get better
[12:51:43] <IchGucksLive> its in the mashine system so in inch or mm
[12:51:59] <IchGucksLive> Where are you from Canada ?
[12:52:18] <pfred1> USA
[12:52:19] <IchGucksLive> Im German
[12:52:38] <pfred1> though that metric junk seems to be seeping over here
[12:53:06] <pfred1> looking at a metric ruler gives me a headache
[12:53:24] <IchGucksLive> the same here the other way
[12:53:32] <IchGucksLive> 7/16
[12:54:13] <pfred1> IchGucksLive can't divide 16 into 7?
[12:54:37] <IchGucksLive> 6.35mm shaft width
[12:54:46] <pfred1> nah it's 1/4 inch
[12:54:57] <IchGucksLive> agree
[12:55:10] <pfred1> all them 13mm tools you folks have is 1/2 inch too
[12:55:40] <IchGucksLive> i think with the optcoppler before the TB you will end up on 3500 3500 15000 15000
[12:55:58] <pfred1> yes I have timing issues with the optocouplers I used
[12:56:40] <pfred1> though I'm not sure if I'm running up against their limits or not
[12:56:52] <IchGucksLive> i reatch on the chiese 5Axis 1500mm/min 60Inch
[12:56:52] <pfred1> was a while ago I put these drivers together now
[12:57:19] <IchGucksLive> but with öload pricise i work on 400mm/min 16inch
[12:57:54] <pfred1> so your max speed is 60 ipm?
[12:58:13] <IchGucksLive> yes
[12:58:21] <IchGucksLive> but without load
[12:58:39] <IchGucksLive> 15kg max 15ipm
[12:59:07] <pfred1> right now there is something going on with my SCALE value
[12:59:18] <pfred1> something I don't quite understand
[13:00:28] <IchGucksLive> SCALE is in steps per mashine unit
[13:00:47] <pfred1> yes possibly my machine unit is in error
[13:01:22] <IchGucksLive> stepconf 200 motor steps 2 half stepping then the leadscrew if no timingbelt gear
[13:01:42] <pfred1> there is some discrepancy with my configuration I have not located yet
[13:02:09] <IchGucksLive> can you screenshot the page with the Xaxis
[13:02:32] <IchGucksLive> do you use a timingbelt gear
[13:02:36] <pfred1> I don't follow you
[13:02:41] <pfred1> no direct drive
[13:02:50] <pfred1> like motor shaft right to lead screw
[13:02:53] <IchGucksLive> leadscrew
[13:03:39] <pfred1> a la rubber hose coupling
[13:03:52] <IchGucksLive> leadscrew with
[13:04:03] <IchGucksLive> per rev ofcause
[13:04:16] <pfred1> what my lead pitch?
[13:04:21] <IchGucksLive> yes
[13:04:26] <pfred1> 10 TPI
[13:04:37] <pfred1> whick is kind of almost metric in a way
[13:05:00] <IchGucksLive> TR12x3 ?
[13:05:14] <pfred1> what is TR12x3 ?
[13:05:17] <IchGucksLive> or Inch one 10TPI
[13:05:30] <pfred1> 10 revs per inch
[13:05:34] <IchGucksLive> you sayd metric
[13:05:43] <pfred1> well metric is base 10
[13:06:04] <pfred1> my lead screw is base 10 imperial :)
[13:06:40] <pfred1> metric micrometers use 40 tpi lead screws in them
[13:06:53] <pfred1> pretty funny huh?
[13:07:17] <pfred1> they just take an imperial mike and change the verniers
[13:08:32] <IchGucksLive> then your SCALe is 4000
[13:08:44] <pfred1> that is what my file says
[13:09:12] <IchGucksLive> its write 10TPI is 10 time Step/rev = 400*10
[13:10:15] <IchGucksLive> 10Tpi 10 Turns per inch -> 400 steps/rev -> 4000steps/inch = Scale
[13:12:16] <IchGucksLive> this is precisen 0,00635mm
[13:13:01] <pfred1> what is that in english?
[13:13:10] <IchGucksLive> 0,00025 inch
[13:14:37] <IchGucksLive> is this a mill ?
[13:14:42] <pfred1> router
[13:15:11] <IchGucksLive> well thats enoph
[13:15:15] <pfred1> my mill has too much backlash
[13:15:32] <pfred1> plus i like to use it manually
[13:15:43] <pfred1> mostly as a drill press
[13:16:03] * pfred1 has one of them RF-32s
[13:16:10] <pfred1> its a heck of a drill press
[13:16:18] <IchGucksLive> therfore i got a wrench plug on my timing belt
[13:16:35] <IchGucksLive> PCB
[13:17:05] <pfred1> dang tkemc works great
[13:17:18] <IchGucksLive> ok by for me
[13:19:40] <andypugh> pfred1: I am almost entirely sure you are incorrect about the micrometers.
[13:19:54] <pfred1> andypugh not all but a lot
[13:20:26] <andypugh> Only the ones which tell you 1" is 25mm.
[13:20:29] <pfred1> metric threads are horrid
[13:23:12] <archivist> I agree with andypugh metric micrometers cannot use imperial screws
[13:23:50] <andypugh> They could, of course, use an imperial standard thread form.
[13:24:05] <pfred1> why can't they? it is just the vernier
[13:24:10] <andypugh> And I guess you _could_ do it with a reference line that spirals up the barrel.
[13:24:30] <archivist> pfred1, integral rotation per mm
[13:24:42] <andypugh> pfred1: Because 1 turn has to be 0.25mm movement of the anvil
[13:25:24] <andypugh> It's not entirely unknown for machine tools to have dials that go up to 2.5mm, then have a gap..
[13:25:33] <pfred1> well then I've been misinformed
[13:25:33] <Jymmm> 25.4 I thought
[13:26:25] <archivist> a machine correctly converted gets a dial and screw replacement
[13:26:51] <pfred1> archivist you mean correctly perverted
[13:26:52] <andypugh> Jymmm, yes, one turn of an imperial micrometer is 0.254mm, and one turn of a metric micromteteris 0.25mm. And the two are not actually interchangeable.
[13:27:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, gotcha.
[13:27:46] <pfred1> andypugh what you say makes sense I stand corrected
[13:28:02] * pfred1 only has imperial mics and just read the 40TPI thing someplace
[13:28:32] <andypugh> I am puzzled why the US is so defensive of units that we invented, then abandoned. After all, you always sided with the French historically (look at that big statue they gave you for declaring war on us)
[13:28:32] <pfred1> metric rulers still give me a headache
[13:28:49] <pfred1> andypugh in the 70s we converted
[13:29:05] <pfred1> but after 2 weeks of buying gasoline by the liter we were like skip this
[13:29:09] <archivist> as for .125" pitch screw on a Myford...is just ...crap
[13:29:27] <pfred1> the USA is too big to measure by kilometers
[13:29:47] <cradek> I can't decide which of you is trolling the other!
[13:29:48] <pfred1> I was in 6th grade when the country went metric
[13:29:53] <pfred1> that must have been 1975
[13:30:15] <pfred1> we still sell soda here in 2 liter bottles
[13:30:26] <pfred1> I remember 64 oz sodas
[13:30:36] <cradek> and cocaine comes in kilos
[13:30:40] <Jymmm> and beer in 40ounces =)
[13:30:44] <pfred1> but when we converted the gas pumps there was a huge backlash
[13:30:49] <Jymmm> cradek: and grams
[13:31:00] <pfred1> yup people sell drugs in metric
[13:31:09] <Jymmm> fuel by the gallon
[13:31:22] <pfred1> but no way are americans going to buy gas by the liter
[13:31:34] <Mjolinor> or in the US "fuel by the nearly a gallon"
[13:31:34] <cradek> yeah, that's unamerican
[13:31:39] <Jymmm> and normal tires are metric, BIG tires are in inches 31x10.5"
[13:32:00] <pfred1> I remember when we tried
[13:32:10] <archivist> pipe threads are imperial :)
[13:32:17] <pfred1> it'd be political suicide to do it again
[13:32:28] <Jymmm> 275R14 <---- Wait, that's mixed, isn't it?
[13:32:37] <Jymmm> 275mm x 14" rim?
[13:32:39] <cradek> Jymmm: sort of. normal tire sizes have one number in inch, one in mm, and one unitless (ratio)
[13:32:47] <pfred1> just in this past year I've seen more and more figures given in metric here
[13:33:23] <Jymmm> cradek: heh
[13:33:25] <pfred1> know what one big metric issue is?
[13:33:30] <pfred1> brick sizes
[13:33:38] <pfred1> metric and standard bricks do not mix
[13:33:41] <Jymmm> cubits?
[13:33:46] <Jymmm> acres
[13:33:51] <Mjolinor> furlongs?
[13:34:16] <pfred1> I've heard of jobs where they've used metric building materials and it's been a disaster
[13:34:23] <Mjolinor> I lived in greece for a while and received endless stick about lb stones, ounces, feet inches etc
[13:34:26] <Jymmm> Land parcel records are still in feet aren't they?
[13:34:42] <pfred1> yeah feet and acres
[13:34:50] <Mjolinor> one day I was with one of the stick givers pumpiong his tyres up and looked at the guage
[13:34:51] * pfred1 has 2.99 acres
[13:34:57] <Mjolinor> he wanted 25 in it, 25 what says I
[13:35:03] <Mjolinor> I dont know he says, jsut 25
[13:35:20] <Mjolinor> no idea what a lb/sq inch was and gave me stick for having them but used them anyway
[13:35:51] <pfred1> the US military is metric
[13:35:59] <Mjolinor> and a lot of other things
[13:36:00] <andypugh> 25 bar would work up a sweat.
[13:36:13] <Jymmm> 9mm, .308, 12ga, 40mm
[13:36:18] <pfred1> I remember when cars were half and half
[13:36:20] <Jymmm> .22LR
[13:36:26] <Mjolinor> I made my first pawn today on my lathe
[13:36:39] <andypugh> Metric or imperial pawn?
[13:36:43] <Mjolinor> doesnt look much like a pwan but it did look like the thing in EMC so I suppose its a win :)
[13:36:48] <Jymmm> Mjolinor: when you said pawn, I immediately thought Pawn Broker
[13:36:52] <ve7it> so 7.62mm rounds are actually 0.300" ?
[13:37:03] <pfred1> that'd be a cool chess set imperial vs. metric
[13:37:16] <Mjolinor> m,etric would win every day
[13:37:20] <Mjolinor> its faster to calculate
[13:37:38] <Jymmm> Mjolinor: 64 isn't metric / base 10 =)
[13:37:42] <pfred1> my digital caliper is no faster in metric than imperial
[13:37:59] <andypugh> What's the drill size for an M6x1 tap?
[13:38:15] <andypugh> How about M20x5?
[13:38:17] <Jymmm> Ok, what is a "2 by 4" is EU ?
[13:38:23] <Jymmm> s/is/in/
[13:38:31] <andypugh> That part is easier in metric, at least.
[13:38:35] <pfred1> Jymmm 2x4s aren't even 2x4s here
[13:38:46] <syyl__> 5mm, andypugh
[13:38:47] <pfred1> though there was a time when they were
[13:38:53] <Jymmm> pfred1: They are actually. 2x4 is the rough-cut size
[13:39:03] <syyl__> always thread-dia minus pitch
[13:39:10] <pfred1> I've ripped up old walls with real 2x4s in them
[13:39:17] <andypugh> syyl__: Yes, it's always nominal minus pitch is tapping drill size.
[13:39:35] <pfred1> andypugh drills for tapping can be material dependant
[13:39:43] <Jymmm> pfred1: Right, those are REAL rought cut, without the finishing cuts on them
[13:39:46] <andypugh> I wonder what the tap size for a 19/32" UNF is :-)
[13:40:04] <syyl__> not really, pfred1
[13:40:07] <pfred1> I use a chart then adjust it by the % thread I want
[13:40:26] <Jymmm> What size is a sheet of plywood in Europe? Here the common size is 4ft x 8ft ?
[13:40:28] <pfred1> syyl__ go tap stainless steel 6-32 come back and tell me that % you hit
[13:40:48] <syyl__> right tap, and go for it :D
[13:40:58] <pfred1> Jymmm but how thick is a 1/2" sheet of plywood?
[13:41:26] <pfred1> you go for much more than 40% thread you might as well just smack that tap with a hammer
[13:41:27] <Jymmm> pfred1: Depends on where you buy it from.
[13:41:37] <pfred1> actually it depends on what kind of plywood it is
[13:41:56] <Jymmm> I want to know EU dimension of lumber though
[14:00:10] <pfred1> I can't see doing carpentry with metric
[14:00:28] <pfred1> like having a metric tape measure
[14:02:58] <mrsun> just some more work on the pattern and i can start casting metal! =)
[14:04:22] <pfred1> mrsun ever cast before?
[14:04:43] <mrsun> yes
[14:04:48] <pfred1> OK
[14:05:01] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://www.diy.com/nav/build/timber/sawn-timber/kiln-dried
[14:05:40] <andypugh> pfred1: I tend to do carpentry in Imperial and Joinery in metric.
[14:05:41] <pfred1> mrsun you use sand or slurry?
[14:06:01] <mrsun> sand
[14:06:01] <pfred1> andypugh for joinery i use my calipers
[14:06:27] <pfred1> then i don't see any advantage to metric it's all decimal places
[14:07:04] <andypugh> I tend to work in mm for joinery.
[14:07:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: Interesting... 38 millimeters = 1.49606299 inches
[14:07:56] <Poincare> Jymmm: 2440mm x 1220mm
[14:08:09] <andypugh> This is the UK, many sizes will be vaguely metricated inch sizes. It might be more interesting to look at a French or German site.
[14:08:46] <syyl> those are pretty common sizes here in germany
[14:10:24] <pfred1> oh yeah I'm seeing the ease of metric now 2440mm x 1220mm is much simpler than 2x4
[14:12:12] <Poincare> pfred1: standard sizes have nothing to do with the ease of metric measurements
[14:12:31] <pfred1> Poincare they do for me
[14:12:37] <Jymmm> 2440mm == 96 inches ~= 8 feet
[14:13:20] <Jymmm> So it looks like EU lumber is just bastarized imperial, in a metric packaging.
[14:13:40] <Jymmm> I suspect it has a lot to do with the machinery and the lumber mills
[14:14:33] <pfred1> sheet goods are very precise here
[14:14:41] <pfred1> like 4x8 is 4x8
[14:16:30] <sirHOAX> tinyurl.com/6vtg8fb
[14:16:49] <Poincare> Jymmm: lumber <> sheets
[14:17:14] <Poincare> some size i regulary use is 45mm x 22mm
[14:17:44] <Poincare> don't know how they get to that standard
[14:17:53] <Jymmm> Ok, what is the COMMON size used in home construction in EU ?
[14:18:07] <Jymmm> for walls and such
[14:18:37] <Poincare> pfff, too much options
[14:18:39] <syyl> wood buildings are not THAT common here
[14:18:48] <syyl> most are built with bricks
[14:18:54] <Jymmm> syyl: interior walls ten
[14:18:56] <Jymmm> then
[14:19:05] <syyl> bricks...
[14:19:07] <Poincare> also brick :-)
[14:19:10] <Jymmm> really?
[14:19:12] <syyl> jep
[14:19:23] <Jymmm> that seems strange
[14:19:30] <syyl> na, its solid :D
[14:19:33] <Jymmm> so you cant remodel easily then?
[14:19:49] <Jymmm> none load bearing walls I mean
[14:19:53] <Poincare> if it arent loadbearing walls...
[14:19:53] <pfred1> yeah masonry is either metric or standard no fudging there
[14:19:55] <syyl> with a sledgehammer and a diamond chainsaw...
[14:20:05] <Jymmm> heh
[14:20:24] <mrsun> Jymmm, 45x220 or so for walls
[14:20:27] <mrsun> 45x170
[14:20:44] <pfred1> you don't want to use metric masonry to build imperial buildings
[14:20:58] <Jymmm> heh
[14:21:18] <pfred1> I've been on jobs where they have
[14:21:29] <pfred1> things do NOT come out the right size!
[14:21:56] <Poincare> pfred1: maybe they should have taken mathematics lessons?
[14:21:58] <pfred1> or the guy doing saw cuts is one busy guy
[14:22:17] <pfred1> Poincare no one laying bricks is a math whiz
[14:22:30] <Jymmm> pfred1: you never know
[14:22:37] <pfred1> Jymmm yes i do
[14:22:41] <Jymmm> nah
[14:22:45] <Poincare> brick layer doesnt have to, engineer has...
[14:22:53] <Jymmm> bbiab
[14:22:57] <pfred1> engineers don't build buildings
[14:23:16] <pfred1> they just show up after the fact and scream a lot
[14:23:50] <syyl> because the bricklayer couldnt even hold the plans the right way round?
[14:23:58] <Poincare> :-)
[14:28:11] <pfred1> like the mason BA said i don't care if you lay one brick all day, you'd better lay it fast!
[14:29:07] * pfred1 hates B&B jobs
[14:29:59] <Poincare> BA = ???
[14:30:16] <pfred1> Buisiness Agent
[14:30:21] <syyl> here we have a saying..."the metalworker has milimetres to work, the carpenter centimetres and the bricklayer is happy if he stays on the building site with his work..."
[14:30:23] <syyl> ;)
[14:33:58] <Poincare> for building houses you can also use the hay bale unit
[14:34:31] <Poincare> specially if you're building with hay bales
[14:53:54] <Poincare> some timber from my supplier, in mm: 8x23 7x18 7x15 36x222 36x172 36x147 36x122 36x97 36x72
[14:56:11] <pfred1> this is some timber I got from my supplier http://i.imgur.com/0flhQ.jpg
[14:56:27] <pfred1> I'm not so sure how the tree felt about getting chainsawed down though
[14:56:32] <Mjolinor> hmmm, firewood
[14:56:51] <Mjolinor> :)
[14:56:59] <pfred1> thats the best Oak in the world right there
[14:57:09] <Mjolinor> it would burn well :)
[14:57:16] <pfred1> indeed it would
[14:57:28] <pfred1> stuff is so heavy
[14:57:47] <pfred1> and i grow it right in my backyard
[14:57:59] <Mjolinor> you grew it :o
[14:58:06] <Mjolinor> and just how old are oyu then?
[14:58:23] <Mjolinor> coming up for your 300 th birthday any day now
[14:58:25] <pfred1> http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8292/p2200017.jpg
[14:59:08] <pfred1> just off to the right in that pic out of frame is a huge oak I'd like to drop
[14:59:16] <Mjolinor> where is it?
[14:59:20] <pfred1> be like a lifetime supply of wood in it
[14:59:22] <Mjolinor> not the oak, the picture I mean
[14:59:27] <pfred1> that is my back yard
[14:59:44] <Mjolinor> in?
[14:59:51] <Mjolinor> lat and long will do :)
[14:59:54] <pfred1> I own them woods
[15:00:20] <pfred1> I don't know
[15:00:27] <pfred1> I live in sussex county DE
[15:01:14] <pfred1> I got my own meth lab too http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2276/p2200012e.jpg
[15:01:23] <Poincare> de is delaware?
[15:01:33] <Mjolinor> yup
[15:01:47] <Mjolinor> those woods are scary places
[15:01:47] <pfred1> yes DE is delaware
[15:02:00] <pfred1> yeah tell me about it everytime I go in there i get ticks
[15:02:07] <clytle374> woods are scary? Don't come here then
[15:02:17] <Mjolinor> i was working in springfield
[15:02:22] <Mjolinor> ma I think
[15:02:38] <pfred1> I've been there
[15:02:43] <Mjolinor> and went off into the woods for a leak and you do not need to go far off the road to feel completely out in the wild
[15:02:49] <Poincare> for me sussex is in the UK and DE is Germany...
[15:02:58] <Mjolinor> real easy to get lost I would think
[15:03:10] <pfred1> Mjolinor don't ever go to upstate Maine then
[15:03:18] <pfred1> thems real woods they got up there!
[15:03:21] <Mjolinor> never been that far up
[15:03:27] <Mjolinor> that is stephen king country
[15:03:35] <pfred1> up north of a little place called millonockett
[15:03:38] <Mjolinor> :) and if ever anythign was weird it's stephen king
[15:03:53] <clytle374> Around here you can't walk more the 5 hours before getting somewhere.
[15:03:54] <pfred1> the allagash wilderness waterway
[15:04:28] <pfred1> 60 miles from the nearest power line
[15:04:42] <Mjolinor> where the wild things are
[15:04:46] <Mjolinor> unexplored territory
[15:04:55] <pfred1> I seen deer up there the size of horses
[15:04:56] <clytle374> pfred1, yet you can wonder around and died in such places
[15:05:32] <pfred1> clytle374 we told the ranger once we were going to a place called Lost Pond you know in case we got lost he looked at us and said i never heard of it
[15:05:47] <pfred1> maybe he was just playing with us i donno
[15:05:51] <clytle374> comforting
[15:06:09] <pfred1> well it was way out there
[15:06:27] <pfred1> on the way back we only missed our campsite by about 3 miles
[15:07:55] <Mjolinor> does hte road numbering in the US make any sense or is it random
[15:08:09] <pfred1> http://g.co/maps/mg8xs
[15:08:43] <mrsun> Lost Pound ? ... shouldnt that be named Found Pound now? :P
[15:08:58] <mrsun> Pond
[15:08:59] <pfred1> mrsun well depends how lost you get finding it
[15:09:13] <pfred1> we did find it
[15:09:29] <pfred1> but man you'd swear you were the last people on Earth there
[15:10:11] <Mjolinor> hmm, it's lost pond again now, I zzoomed out and in and its gone
[15:10:32] <pfred1> Mjolinor that lake next to it is like 23 miles long
[15:11:07] <Mjolinor> that thing north of you aroow in canada is weird
[15:11:14] <Mjolinor> about 400 miles north
[15:11:19] <Mjolinor> looks like a crater
[15:11:38] <pfred1> I don't know how people live in Canada
[15:11:48] <Mjolinor> comfortably for the most part
[15:12:00] <pfred1> in the US we decided that even Maine isn't suitable for human habitation
[15:12:20] <pfred1> least not nothing north of Freeport
[15:13:04] <pfred1> back in 1850 they tried it and it just didn't work out
[15:13:31] <Mjolinor> lots of americans are happy to live in alaska
[15:13:42] <Mjolinor> and if anywhere wasn't suitable for humans that must be it
[15:13:50] <pfred1> my favorite show on TV now is Gold Rush
[15:14:03] <pfred1> man it's like watching the 8 Stooges
[15:14:15] <Mjolinor> is that the one where a few men go adn take big machins and rip the country to bits
[15:14:21] <pfred1> yes!
[15:14:21] <Mjolinor> the old guy with the digger?
[15:14:28] <pfred1> that is the show
[15:14:28] <Mjolinor> really crabby git he is :)
[15:14:45] <pfred1> yeah that machine has been breaking down a lot this season
[15:15:06] <pfred1> then there is the mechanic with the bad back
[15:15:28] <Mjolinor> its ok but I find myselkf sitting there shouting do this or do that
[15:15:30] <pfred1> every time they want him to fix something he has to rush to the hospital
[15:15:37] <Mjolinor> they don't seem to have a lot of common sense the lot of them
[15:16:11] <pfred1> well I wouldn't know the first thing about gold mining
[15:16:23] <Mjolinor> its not the mining, neither would I
[15:16:41] <Mjolinor> but fixing leaks in pipes and pumps or engines adn general mechanical stuff they fail miserably seomtimes
[15:17:01] <pfred1> yeah one time when their mechanic bugged out on them they hired some truck mechanics
[15:17:15] <pfred1> they showed up in a truck with tools and just fixed whatever it was
[15:17:31] <pfred1> oh yeah their front end loader blew a connection block
[15:18:01] <pfred1> the leader is the one i can't stand
[15:18:06] <pfred1> the fat guy with the long beard
[15:18:38] <pfred1> I wouldn't follow that guy to much more than a hot dog stand
[15:18:39] <Mjolinor> there was a hippy type the first time I watched it and I remmeber thnking he woudlnt last
[15:18:50] <Mjolinor> he wasnt there next tiem I saw it, dont know what happened to him
[15:18:59] <pfred1> he wised up
[15:19:11] <Mjolinor> they jsut seem to have heard GOLD in the job description and gone for it
[15:19:35] <Mjolinor> you would htink that they shoudl all have seom kind of survival instinct or mechanical knowledge or other skioll that oyu need
[15:19:36] <pfred1> well way back when people pulled a lot of gold out of Alaska
[15:19:46] <Mjolinor> mos tof them died
[15:19:50] <Mjolinor> :)
[15:19:58] <pfred1> and you'd think with midern machinery you could get even more today
[15:20:16] <pfred1> but after watching that show there is no way I'd ever try it
[15:20:42] <Mjolinor> you could go to wales and do it
[15:20:45] <Mjolinor> no bears, no snow
[15:20:50] <Mjolinor> and good gold :)
[15:21:06] <pfred1> I think that is what makes the show so exciting because they're always up against the winter
[15:21:13] <Mjolinor> yup
[15:21:33] <pfred1> they're always a day late and a dollar short with everything
[15:21:40] <Mjolinor> last one I saw they were fighting the weather, everyone else had left and they were all alone trying to reach the sink hole with the digger
[15:21:48] <pfred1> but i bet they're making a mint because they're like TV stars
[15:21:53] <Mjolinor> :)
[15:21:54] <Mjolinor> yup
[15:21:59] <Mjolinor> like deadliest catch
[15:22:02] <Mjolinor> and pawn stars
[15:22:09] <Mjolinor> american chopper
[15:22:18] <Mjolinor> lots of them now and htey are all planks :)
[15:22:21] <pfred1> chumley gets paid like $2,000 just to go to a night club
[15:22:25] <Mjolinor> but make lots of money form it I am sure
[15:23:35] <pfred1> know what the worst thing is about them out of the way places?
[15:23:39] <pfred1> black fly season
[15:23:46] <alex4nder-> Mjolinor: the deadliest catch guys don't make much
[15:23:52] <pfred1> skip the bears the flies will drive you nuts!
[15:23:53] <Mjolinor> they dont need to
[15:23:54] <alex4nder-> american chopper at least has a brand behind it now
[15:24:49] <pfred1> I know in my backyard wrong time of year mosquitos will pick you up and carry you away
[15:27:11] <pfred1> wow you can upload a photo to google maps now
[15:27:52] <pfred1> this is a picture of me up there by that big lake http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8121/maineme.jpg
[15:28:09] <pfred1> it is about 6 miles wide there
[15:29:25] <pfred1> how do you place a balloon pin onto google maps?
[15:35:13] <andypugh> pfred1: I don't know how people live in Canada -> reminded me of this I saw earlier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKV1Is3aP2Q
[15:42:32] <andypugh> skunkworks: How many tools in your chain?
[15:42:59] <skunkworks> 60
[15:43:28] <skunkworks> but each tool has 15 bits..
[15:43:46] <andypugh> You know LinuxCNC can't handle more than 56 tools?
[15:43:51] <skunkworks> yes
[15:44:01] <andypugh> Actually, 55 as index 0 is the spindle.
[15:44:43] <andypugh> I was trying to work out where the number 56 came from, as it sounds like it was designed for a specific machine.
[15:45:13] <skunkworks> the work around was multiple tool tables for now...
[15:47:01] <andypugh> skunkworks: It's easy enough to change. I can't see any reason not to make it 64.
[15:47:10] <andypugh> Or 100. Or 1024...
[15:47:25] <skunkworks> I thought there was a nml limit or some such thing..
[15:47:27] <skunkworks> also
[15:47:35] <andypugh> Yes, I just got told that
[15:47:41] <andypugh> Ignore moe.
[15:47:50] <andypugh> Ignore me, even.
[15:47:53] <skunkworks> heh
[15:48:14] <skunkworks> it has been a while since I remmeber talking about this.
[15:48:31] <alex4nder-> hah
[15:49:00] <alex4nder-> skunkworks: is it you that's got a VMCish setup retrofitted with EMC?
[15:49:18] <skunkworks> hmcish ;)
[15:50:38] <skunkworks> alex4nder-: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[16:36:51] <Jymmm> Is $17.82 USD+tax good price for propane exchange ( suspect that's 15 lbs)?
[16:41:15] <mrsun> hell in sweden a 25.25 lbs in sweden costs about 58 usd including taxes
[16:41:57] <andypugh> I paid £22 for 1 litre of MAP gas yesterday.
[16:47:23] <clytle374> hope you're not using it in a heater
[16:47:32] <clytle374> too expensive
[16:47:49] <andypugh> I am using it in a very localised heate...
[16:50:31] <andypugh> Making this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5700589780431468033
[16:50:58] <andypugh> It's a re-metalled big-end bearing from a 1916 engine.
[17:08:01] <EmcPT> Linuxcnc uses the tool tip direction different from the remaining commercial machines (at least from those I am aware about). It have swaped the rear tooling with the front tooling. For example tip direction 3 is normally associated with a tool for outside longitudinal machining. in linuxcnc tool direction is 2.
[17:08:48] <EmcPT> The same applys to the remaining tool direction exepct 7 and 5
[17:09:57] <EmcPT> Probably when implemented it was not taking in consideration the rear and front tool turret position.
[17:10:34] <EmcPT> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/lathe_lathe-user.html
[17:13:33] <andypugh> It's an interesting question whether the numbers should be absolute or relative.
[17:14:47] <andypugh> ie, would a type 6 tool be a type 8 on a rear toolpost? I think not, as that makes radius compensation etc unnecessarily difficult.
[17:15:34] <andypugh> Do you have a reference for the tool direction codes for other controls? Google is only finding me emc2 documents.
[17:16:38] <EmcPT> I have some fanuc manuals (not here).
[17:16:58] <EmcPT> But if you look for HAAS machines it is equal to fanuc
[17:18:34] <EmcPT> http://www.egr.unlv.edu/~kevinn/CNCworkbooks/LatheProgrammingBook.pdf
[17:19:19] <EmcPT> page 69
[17:21:16] <andypugh> Shows exactly the same as emc2 uses?
[17:21:19] <EmcPT> about relative or absolute, there cannot be a doubt. A 3 direction tool is always for machining outside, being the turret over the centerline or below.
[17:21:27] <andypugh> Sorry, I mean Linuxcnc
[17:21:54] <EmcPT> No. I believe that your mistake is the mistake of the one that made the drawing in the documentation and implemented it.
[17:22:04] <EmcPT> Look at the XZ
[17:22:49] <andypugh> Yes, I see your point.
[17:22:53] <EmcPT> In the emc doc X is growing down, so the tool on position 2 is the outside tool
[17:23:25] <EmcPT> I could be a trouble finder for turning in linuxcnc
[17:23:32] <EmcPT> :-)
[17:24:07] <EmcPT> The axis behave like in the docs (wrong for me)
[17:24:20] <andypugh> I am fairly sure 2 is the outside too.
[17:24:51] <EmcPT> for emc yes, for all the remaing no. So I suppose it was a mistaje
[17:24:54] <EmcPT> mistake
[17:25:51] <andypugh> I don't think that there is a defined standard. (Though I can believe that someone tried to copy HAAS and got it wrong).
[17:26:23] <andypugh> I think it would be a tricky and contentious thing to try to change now.
[17:27:16] <EmcPT> Of course it would. Unfortunatly.
[17:27:17] <andypugh> But maybe we should mention in the documentation that the physical appearance will be reversed for back-toolpost machines.
[17:28:35] <clytle374> linunxcnc isn't the only one that shows a tool, or orientation, on the wrong side of the part
[17:28:46] <clytle374> linuxcnc is much harder to type
[17:29:14] <andypugh> clytle374: Yeah, that heap of junk package EMC2 is just the same :-)
[17:30:08] <clytle374> there are others
[17:30:16] <EmcPT> http://books.google.pt/books?id=ziU_rO5gcIEC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=tool+tip+direction+lathe&source=bl&ots=6RIPvUiKAW&sig=l4K7LB8FrMRm5DAawgi6sOpIlt8&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ei=d5kcT8PWBc2AhQeY3onCDA&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=tool%20tip%20direction%20lathe&f=false
[17:30:28] <EmcPT> sorry, not sure if the link works
[17:31:26] <EmcPT> Good example with rear and front tool posts. All lead to the same. The outside is always 3.
[17:32:06] <EmcPT> What others controllers? I know a bit of Mitsubish siemens and I am almost sure that all use the same.
[17:32:22] <EmcPT> Maybe Fagor could be different, not sure.
[17:33:09] <rob_h> here is page from fanuc turning manual.. that u are talking about http://innovative-rc.co.uk/fanuc-toolnose.pdf
[17:33:43] <EmcPT> Good it is also inline to what I am saying
[17:33:56] <rob_h> from 16/18 manual
[17:34:01] <clytle374> can't talk about the _other_ controlers ;) trying to forget
[17:37:27] <clytle374> of course if someone makes you sign a non compete, it might be ones duty to bad mouth them when it expires.
[17:39:37] <andypugh> EmcPT: I agree that LinuxCNC does use different tool orientation numbers. But I think that the only solution is to keep that in mind when filing in the tool table.
[22:00:34] <sirHOAX> rifraf: http://tinyurl.com/79bg2cr