#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-01-21

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[00:21:20] <Jymmm> Poor bastard... http://i39.tinypic.com/2a5e1y.jpg
[03:49:34] <mrsun> http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/shaper_book_page.htm just wante to share a link =)
[03:54:58] <MattyMatt> Jymmm why is his mouth open? what does he need to say? :) I'd just stare at the camera
[03:55:31] <MattyMatt> 5 secs of that, then "back to the studio"
[03:57:27] <MattyMatt> mrsun nice links, and not all shaper related
[03:58:06] <MattyMatt> the one on threads and tapers is not how to cut them with a shaper but a nice tute about doing them on a lathe, just what I need :)
[03:59:27] <mrsun> gah i want a shaper, they are so freakin beautifull machines =)
[03:59:34] <mrsun> dont know why but the pace of them
[03:59:39] <mrsun> is like soothing :P
[03:59:59] <MattyMatt> the giant ones are nice yeah
[04:00:26] <MattyMatt> a small one I guess could be quite screechy
[04:01:17] <MattyMatt> like broaching
[04:01:45] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZdbNWoySo0 small gingery still very nice =)
[04:03:43] <MattyMatt> yep :)
[04:03:44] <mrsun> there a freakin lot alu in them tho, so i would have to fire up the big guns to be able to melt the amount to make one :P
[04:04:29] <awallin> cradek: have you seen things like this from your ttt? (I'm using a modified version of ttt4.0) http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/01/non-smooth-output-from-ttt/
[04:04:38] <MattyMatt> can you get waste oil? there's none around here any more. someone already goes round with van collecting it
[04:04:47] <Mjolinor> it is illeagal
[04:04:52] <Mjolinor> illegal
[04:04:55] <Mjolinor> withouta license
[04:05:13] <mrsun> MattyMatt, fuel oil , home heating oil that is =)
[04:05:17] <Mjolinor> ok
[04:05:30] <awallin> that's perhaps not _quite_ up to modern safety-standards...
[04:05:30] <mrsun> about 250 liters of it for free, and can get more free if i remove tanks :P
[04:05:38] <Mjolinor> but "waste" that makes it illegal to move without a license
[04:05:57] <Mjolinor> stupid european laws
[04:06:28] <Mjolinor> If I go to my mates garage to change my car oil I can leave hteooil there for him to burn in his waste oil burner, if I do it at home I cannot take it up there and give it to him
[04:07:35] <mrsun> i would do it anyways :P
[04:07:56] <Mjolinor> well I do but it is jsut an example of the stupid laws that we have soemtimes
[04:08:50] <mrsun> true that
[04:09:22] <awallin> so, what are shapers used for? that video shows something that could be done with a face-mill ?
[04:09:23] <Mjolinor> he used ot have a license but they put the price up and changed hte rules
[04:09:43] <mrsun> awallin, they got replaced by mills
[04:09:46] <Mjolinor> if he transports it on a trailer then the trailer must be a tank capable of holding the contents of any recepticles on the trailer
[04:10:01] <mrsun> but nice thing with the shaper is that you can easily make your own tooling
[04:10:05] <Mjolinor> so if mirraculously all the 5 gallon plastic barrels broke at opnce the trailer would hold it all
[04:10:11] <mrsun> do not need specialized tooling like for dovetail cutters etc =)
[04:10:30] <Mjolinor> millers killed the chaper :(
[04:10:42] <Mjolinor> I love shapers but they are pretty much a redundant machine nowadays
[04:11:20] <mrsun> not when looking at it like so: 1x dovetail cutter in sweden about 70$ or so .... 1x shaper in sweden about 150$
[04:11:30] <mrsun> and the shaper i can make my own tooling for alot easier :P
[04:14:47] <MattyMatt> and it looks like you don't need coolant
[04:14:55] <MattyMatt> or ear protectors
[04:15:10] <Mjolinor> hmm they can fairly grunt when you stress tehm
[04:15:18] <Mjolinor> but I have never seen one with coolant
[04:16:44] <mrsun> and they seem to leave a very nice finnish =)
[04:17:22] <Mjolinor> good finish is hard to get
[04:19:05] <MattyMatt> it's way down my list. I don't even have a bench grinder yet so I'm nursing my bits of used lathe tooling
[04:19:33] <archivist> Mjolinor, a domestic user is allowed to move his waste
[04:20:13] <Mjolinor> I dont think it is that simple
[04:20:19] <archivist> no license needed, eg taking stuff to tip
[04:20:34] <Mjolinor> I dont think a domestic user can take it to a non licensed place
[04:20:42] <Mjolinor> but a tip is licensed
[04:20:52] <MattyMatt> I take a more flexible approach to authority. "allowed" = "nobody stopped me"
[04:21:11] <Mjolinor> :)
[04:21:17] <archivist> I do it every week
[04:21:21] <Mjolinor> "common sense" is that factor they are trying to remove
[04:23:16] <MattyMatt> the grace hopper defence. it's easier to get forgiveness than permission
[07:27:24] <elmo40> some times
[08:34:06] <rob_h> trying setup a 5i20 with 7i48 & 7I37 using SV12_2X7I48_72.BIT i get some warnings
[08:34:07] <rob_h> [ 8560.652944] hm2_5i20.0: firmware: requesting hm2/5i20/SV12_2X7I48_72.BIT
[08:34:08] <rob_h> [ 8560.831572] hm2/hm2_5i20.0: WARNING: this firmware has Muxed Encoder v2!
[08:34:08] <rob_h> [ 8560.831576] hm2/hm2_5i20.0: WARNING: velocity computation will be incorrect!
[08:34:08] <rob_h> [ 8560.831578] hm2/hm2_5i20.0: WARNING: upgrade your firmware!
[08:44:34] <skunkworks> yes - the velocity will be off by 16.666 or something like that..
[08:46:01] <rob_h> thanks skunkworks guess no firmwar that is newer then
[08:46:39] <skunkworks> yes - it has been fixed..
[08:47:02] <rob_h> just grep says i have v0.8
[08:47:14] <rob_h> see here
[08:47:14] <rob_h> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=27&id=17002#17002
[08:47:19] <skunkworks> But I don't know how you get the fixed version - someone will let you know
[08:47:52] <rob_h> ok grate, as im using it on a lathe so vel being off will play games on threading
[08:48:02] <rob_h> ill see if pcw_home can help when hes around
[08:48:32] <skunkworks> actually - for the lathe you use position...
[08:49:01] <rob_h> true
[08:49:02] <rob_h> net spindle-velocity motion.spindle-speed-in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.03.velocity
[08:49:02] <rob_h> net spindle-revs motion.spindle-revs <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.03.position
[08:49:43] <skunkworks> velocity for feed per rev and stuff. I just scaled mine. (I have been too lazy to get the latest firmware)
[08:49:55] <skunkworks> I mean busy..
[08:50:00] <rob_h> same diff
[08:50:33] <rob_h> thx
[10:09:56] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: LOL, that sounds good!
[10:10:54] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: But, people are so stupid, they would think that his mike was broken.
[10:11:00] <Jymmm> mic
[11:04:13] <Jymmm> I don't think I've ever seen a pegboard cart like these before... http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_storage-organizers+pegboard-carts
[11:10:00] <mrsun> worst part about doing casting patterns .... drying times ...
[11:13:54] <sirHOAX> what are you casting?
[11:15:30] <mrsun> new motor mounts for the cnc machine
[11:16:06] <mrsun> tho its a crude pattern, its just a temporary one, want to mill one out when i get the machine going again to make it nicer :P
[11:17:37] <sirHOAX> sand/foam casting?
[11:17:43] <sirHOAX> aluminum.
[11:18:25] <mrsun> sand and wooden pattern =)
[11:18:30] <mrsun> in alyu
[11:18:31] <mrsun> alu
[11:19:19] <sirHOAX> how does that work?
[11:19:45] <mrsun> wooden pattern, pack greensand around it, remove pattern, pour metal :P
[11:20:07] <sirHOAX> heh. k
[11:20:25] <sirHOAX> so its open the top. thought it was an entire piece.
[11:20:38] <mrsun> no its not open
[11:20:40] <mrsun> two halfs
[11:20:44] <sirHOAX> ah i see. k
[11:20:58] <sirHOAX> got any pics?
[11:21:01] <sirHOAX> sounds interesting
[11:21:55] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt2mqlwMyZU
[11:23:08] <sirHOAX> that you?
[11:23:14] <mrsun> no
[11:28:17] <sirHOAX> melt down some aluminum cans
[11:38:09] <Jymmm> Or freeway signage =)
[11:38:40] <Jymmm> Oh, and those fancy aluminum window frames at the courthouse and police station!
[11:41:55] <mrsun> or not use non cast aluminium at all for casting :P
[12:41:54] <mrsun> YEEEY
[12:42:03] <slime> ^^
[12:42:04] <mrsun> connected up the cnc computer and connected one of the steppers, and it still works! =)
[12:42:12] <mrsun> and damn the little motors are strong
[12:42:21] <mrsun> tried to hold the table from moving ... yeah right
[13:13:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh, this is kinda funny. watch the video... http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200375813_200375813
[13:32:02] <mrsun> hmm, damn my motor for the mill is weak (spindle motor)
[14:19:58] <Jymmm> mrsun: Well, put your blender back in the kitchen instead of on your machine
[14:22:44] <awallin> v-carving test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4P9SvT4L7g
[14:25:28] <Loetmichel_> Jymmm: ouch... 2k4$ for siuch a cheap construction?
[14:26:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel_: Heh, but it has a key lock!!! lol
[14:26:01] <Loetmichel_> that cna be made out of 2 electric winches and some square steel tuebs...
[14:26:50] <Jymmm> Loetmichel_: 1/2" EMT and one trailer winch, remember it only supports 200lbs
[14:27:19] <Loetmichel_> ah, ok ;)
[14:27:56] <Jymmm> awallin: http://i53.tinypic.com/2eq5d6o.jpg
[14:30:14] <Loetmichel_> mrsun: i just have upgraded last year from a 400W Proxxon spindle to a 800W China HF spindle... so dont talk about weak spindles... the new one is WAY better than the proxxon, but even that isnt capable of more than 6mm 2 flute in Steel ;-)
[14:30:54] <Loetmichel_> Jymmm: EMT stands for extrudet metal tube?
[14:31:25] <Loetmichel_> -t+d
[14:31:59] <Jymmm> Loetmichel_: $2USD for 10ft stick... http://cableorganizer.com/conduit/emt-conduit.htm
[14:35:15] <Jymmm> awallin: http://i42.tinypic.com/kdr9g4.jpg
[14:36:17] <Jymmm> awallin: http://i39.tinypic.com/5ydukh.jpg
[14:37:58] <Jymmm> awallin: These two are the EXACT same artwork, just inverted... http://i42.tinypic.com/15hft77.jpg and http://i39.tinypic.com/iefmgy.jpg
[14:38:46] <Jymmm> awallin: all v-carved fwiw
[15:28:56] <Loetmichel_> Jymmm: thats called "stapa-rohr" in germany.
[15:29:29] <Loetmichel_> "STahl-PAnzer-Rohr" (steel armor tube)
[15:31:23] <Loetmichel_> and i dont know... i wouldnt load these tubes wiht more than a few pounds.
[15:32:23] <Loetmichel_> i have seen that the welding split under moderate force on the tube... on the whole length ;-)
[17:00:26] <MattyMatt> Jymmm, were they done in several depth passes? I think I finally get awallin's one now, it does it in one pass
[17:05:34] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: you mean like 1" then 2", then 3" etc?
[17:06:56] <MattyMatt> on the text in your vid it does the outlines first, then comes back and carves the deeper bits
[17:07:09] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I have no video.
[17:08:15] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: awallin's video is showing the TTF trajectory his been devleoping
[17:08:17] <MattyMatt> oops sorry, I got to this one from his :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrXi_ffDAOk
[17:09:06] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Yes, that is how the pics I linked to are done.
[17:09:52] <MattyMatt> his does the tapering by digging deeper for the wider parts in one pass
[17:10:40] <Jymmm> Well, depth (other than maxiumum), is not settable.
[17:11:26] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: howdy
[17:12:11] <SWPLinux> hiya
[17:12:15] <Jymmm> lol
[17:12:57] <Jymmm> I got a 20lb propane tank for $5 off CL!
[17:13:17] <Jymmm> and it's only 4yo =)
[17:13:29] <MattyMatt> full? the price of gas is enormous these days
[17:13:39] <Jymmm> No, partial.
[17:13:42] <MattyMatt> sweet
[17:14:41] <Jymmm> Roughly $30 to fill. But $30 for exchange for only 15lbs.
[17:14:44] <MattyMatt> at the local shop butane bottle = £10 deposit. 50lb of gas £31
[17:15:41] <MattyMatt> sorry 12kg, so 25lb
[17:15:45] <Jymmm> I have one of these http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=41&id=24
[17:16:00] <Jymmm> It uses 1lb disposable, which are about $4 USD/ea
[17:16:25] <Jymmm> I just ordered the hose to connect to 20lb tank for $28 shipped, so should save me some money
[17:17:04] <MattyMatt> quite quickly
[17:17:09] <Jymmm> ?
[17:17:57] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I lost ya there
[17:18:15] <MattyMatt> $4 a lb means you'll get your $28 back after one big bottle full
[17:18:47] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Oh, yeah. definantly. and $5 for the 20lb tank is a steal too
[17:19:04] <MattyMatt> even big bottles is more expensive than connecting to the domestic supply. I'd do that if I could
[17:20:01] <Jymmm> Well, I have been using the electric dryer to help heat the garage. but doens't work that well and is VERY expensive.
[17:21:19] <Jymmm> I can turn this lil propane heater on as needed, and works well enough to prevent my fingers from hurting from the cold.
[17:21:27] <MattyMatt> if you use bottle gas in a city here, it's because you're too poor to pay your gas bill
[17:21:40] <Jymmm> lol
[17:21:46] <Jymmm> Hey, whatever works.
[17:22:06] <MattyMatt> one advantage of living oon a crowded island is piped gas everywhere
[17:22:21] <Jymmm> I can also buy one of those adapters and refll the small 1lb tanks too
[17:22:33] <MattyMatt> it sure has got expensive the last couple of years tho
[17:22:40] <Jymmm> from the 20lb tank that is
[17:23:50] <Jymmm> from what I read, the trick is to FREEZE the 1lb tanks, and theget the 20lb tank as warm/hot as you can (sitting in the sun, etc)
[17:24:16] <Jymmm> That way, you fill the 1lb the most that way.
[17:26:56] <Jymmm> I guess it has todo with thermal expansion. The big tank wants to contract while the lil tank wants to expand. So you get a push/pull sorta thing.
[17:30:29] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Read the first few reviews they explain it better http://www.amazon.com/Heater-F276172-1-Pound-Disposable-Propane/product-reviews/B000AMC5WO/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
[17:30:33] <MattyMatt> if you're doing it as liquid, all cold would get you the most. I think warming the source is to prevent overfilling
[17:31:55] <MattyMatt> e.g. if you fill the 1lb tank to the brim when cold, then warm it up in the sun, kaboom
[17:32:47] <MattyMatt> it reminds me of Have Spacesuit, Will Travel
[17:33:25] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Well, you NEVER fill 100% for safety reasons.
[17:42:38] <andypugh> MattyMatt (Scrolling back) Yes, my parent's hamlet has gas. No piped water or sewage, but piped gas.
[17:43:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: No water/sewage?! OH MY GAWD!!!
[17:43:37] <Jymmm> Whats a hamlet?
[17:43:58] <andypugh> They have a private water supply, and a septic tank for the village. The point is that the only mains services are electric and gas.
[17:44:13] <andypugh> Technically a hamlet is a village without a church.
[17:44:19] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[17:44:33] <Jymmm> DietyLess
[17:44:46] <Jymmm> Hevens!
[17:44:48] <Jymmm> lol
[17:45:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: you said no PIPED, did you mean no City service?
[17:45:42] <Jymmm> I'd consider septic piped, unless it's below an outhouse
[17:45:56] <andypugh> Nice water. Technically too full of faecal coliforms for EU regs (as it is totally untreated) but the locals live for ever.
[17:46:01] <Jymmm> and you have to go outside and hand pipe the water
[17:46:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: Why such high ground waer contamination?
[17:47:23] <andypugh> we reckon it is clean at the spring source, but the stone conduit through the cow fields is leaky :-)
[17:47:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: oh. They probably have become immune to it.
[17:48:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: I found a filter that does 1 million gallons
[17:50:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.sawyer.com/SP121.htm
[17:50:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: Or this one if you are in a 3rd world country http://www.sawyer.com/viral.htm
[17:52:12] <andypugh> The folks just use a filter jug. But I think that was mainly because some sort of crustacean crawled out the tap one day :-)
[17:53:32] <Jymmm> lol
[17:53:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: this is cool http://www.justdrink.net/
[17:54:34] <Jymmm> it will screw on to a standard water bottle
[17:54:42] <andypugh> I think I have seen them before.
[17:54:57] <Jymmm> watch the video at the bottom of the page
[18:09:04] <EmcPT> Yestarday I asked and got help about toolchange, and I realized that the toolchange was happening besides the fact that the status window is not correct. But there are more things not correct, like the incorrect load of the tool tip direction,
[18:09:09] <MattyMatt> crayfish on tap?
[18:09:26] <EmcPT> that should be associated with the offset and not with the tool pocket.
[18:10:32] <EmcPT> Calling M6T01G43H11 should load the offset and tool tip direction and tool tip radius of the offset 11
[18:10:49] <EmcPT> and it is loading the tool radius and tip direction from tool1 and the offset (x and z) from 11
[18:12:14] <MattyMatt> my A axis rotates the workpiece, I'd like the (option of) the display showing the tool paths rotated in that view. when I mill a gear it only shows the toolpath in real space
[18:13:51] <skunkworks> MattyMatt: have you looked at the 'geometry =' setting in the ini?
[18:14:42] <andypugh> EmcPT: Interesting.
[18:14:53] <EmcPT> I cannot then find a way to load different offsets (including tool radius and direction) for a tool with 2 cutting edges in a single slot.
[18:15:03] <andypugh> I agree, that doesn't make sense
[18:15:29] <MattyMatt> skunkworks only briefly. I don't want to mess with co-ordinated rotate+move just yet. the way I have it is easy for my brain and gcode
[18:48:15] <andypugh> EmcPT: How big an issue is this for you? as far as I can see EMC2 is doing the right things, but the Axis Gui is not displaying them.
[18:51:35] <EmcPT> The offsets are being load correctly, but the tool tip direction and radius is not. This means that the toolcompensation will not be done correctly.
[18:52:34] <EmcPT> Not sure if only in axis (not running a machine). I need some time to test it.
[18:53:05] <EmcPT> But in axis the representation is wrong (also the status bar). That is for sure.
[18:55:43] <andypugh> Aye, we are trying to get to the bottom of this. It is a question of whether Axis is not displaying accurately, or whether linuxCNC is doing it wrong too.
[19:01:00] <andypugh> EmcPT: Discussing on the Dev forum, we think that touching-off a tool (Axis, or G10 L10) will put the offset in the T line of the tooltable, not the H line. How do you set your tool offsets?
[19:03:18] <Jymmm> I think we should abbr LinuxCNC to just LC it typical chat. Any thoughts?
[19:03:52] <Jymmm> s/it/in/
[19:04:16] <Jymmm> Great Idea Jymmm! Thanks I think so too Jymmm!
[19:04:40] <EmcPT> Normally by machining. Also measuring is ok.
[19:09:56] <EmcPT> I did the following test: Small toolpath: G0X100Z0; G1Z-10F100; G1X130
[19:10:31] <EmcPT> being done with tools with tip direction 7
[19:10:44] <EmcPT> one very large and the other very small
[19:10:54] <EmcPT> (tip radius)
[19:11:45] <andypugh> EmcPT: For radius compensation, you use a D word in the G41 line, to choose a tool-table line to read data from.
[19:12:31] <andypugh> So, it seems you can choose offsets and radius/orientation from different parts of the tool table. I can't decide whether this is a feature, or just crazy.
[19:12:49] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: you can join in the fun on #linuxcnc-devel if you like
[19:15:02] <EmcPT> it seams that linuxcnc is (like mach) another software initial made for milling machines then was converted as possible for lathes. There are probably 80% milling machines users, no? Will now try with the D word.
[19:16:12] <JT-Shop> actually mack was created from the original EMC
[19:16:12] <andypugh> EmcPT: Well, to an extent EMC2 was made as a generic machine controller, and both mills and lathes are add-ons.
[19:16:31] <EmcPT> ok
[19:28:40] <andypugh> We are trying to sort out how this ought to be handled. It does get very complicated when you start using touch-off with tool A, offset B and radius C...
[19:29:09] <andypugh> As you say, it isn't really a problem with a mill.
[19:43:01] <andypugh> EmcPT: Can you see a private massage window?
[20:27:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: D) All the above.
[22:11:29] <clytle374> turned on a bunch more debugging, anyone want to look? http://pastebin.com/wSzz6ZCz
[22:48:49] <clytle374> logger[mah], bookmark
[22:48:50] <logger[mah]> clytle374: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-01-22.html