#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-01-20

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[02:21:17] <mhaberler> is a Jon Schmidt from motorworks, CA tuned in here?
[03:05:41] <Loetmichel> moin
[03:05:53] <Loetmichel> s/moin/mornin'
[06:07:12] <Loetmichel> hmmm. my Gcode-abilities were better once upon a time... anyone knows how to program a helix with 0,6mm diameter and 2mm depth and 0,1mm per turn and the actual position as middle of the circle?
[06:07:29] <Loetmichel> with ONE statement ( manual input)
[06:12:25] <alex_joni> I don't think you can
[06:12:41] <alex_joni> you need to travel to the helix start point
[06:12:48] <alex_joni> e.g. x+0.3mm
[06:13:29] <Loetmichel> and then?
[06:13:40] <alex_joni> then you need to program one circle for each turn
[06:13:57] <Loetmichel> ah, thats bad.
[06:14:06] <alex_joni> but skunkworks's g-code foo beats mine
[06:14:20] <skunkworks> huh?
[06:14:20] <Loetmichel> i thought i had read about a single Gcode for a helix.
[06:14:33] <Loetmichel> maybe it was in a Mac3-forum.
[06:14:37] <Loetmichel> +h
[06:14:38] <alex_joni> Loetmichel: right. it's a circle + z travel
[06:14:59] <alex_joni> skunkworks: helix, 0.6mm diameter, 0.1mm / turn, 2mm depth
[06:15:07] <alex_joni> any idea how to program it in one line?
[06:16:22] <jthornton> P-
[06:16:37] <saschi> well, G87(?) is not implemented yet
[06:16:46] <skunkworks> umm - I have not done it - but I know cradek had added a way to do it... Like P for number of rotations..
[06:16:57] <skunkworks> heh
[06:17:00] <jthornton> P-
[06:18:01] <jthornton> To program an arc that gives more than one full turn, use a P word specifying the number of full or partial turns of arc. If P is unspecified, the behavior is as if P1 was given: that is, only one full or partial turn will result, giving an arc less than or equal to one full circle. For example, if an arc is programmed with P2, the resulting motion will be more than one full circle and up to...
[06:18:03] <jthornton> ...two full circles (depending on the programmed endpoint.) Multiturn helical arcs are supported and give motion useful for milling holes or threads.
[06:18:08] <jthornton> 2.5
[06:18:09] <Loetmichel> so i am right, ther IS a gcode to do a Helix in one line, but just not implemented in EMC2 yet?
[06:18:15] <jthornton> 2.5
[06:18:41] <skunkworks> RIGHT - 2.5
[06:18:57] <skunkworks> *right
[06:20:03] <skunkworks> morning
[06:20:11] <jthornton> morning Sam
[06:20:22] <Loetmichel> so it will be: g02 i-0.3 z-0.1 P20 ?
[06:20:44] <Loetmichel> and before that g0x-0,3?
[06:20:59] <Loetmichel> for adjusting the middle point?
[06:21:36] <jthornton> I'd have to fire up Arc Buddy to check the offset
[06:22:51] <Loetmichel> i just want to "drill" a bunch of 3,6mm holes with a 3mm single tip mill bit
[06:23:02] <Loetmichel> in 2mm aluminium
[06:25:24] <saschi> btw, are those G5.2 nurbs already stable?
[06:25:57] <saschi> G5.2 & 5.3
[06:26:42] <jthornton> they work but but but not tested much
[06:27:14] <saschi> that means, they could kill part or tool?
[06:27:23] <alex_joni> and operator
[06:27:28] <saschi> oh no! :D
[06:27:38] <jthornton> and the whole machine
[06:27:46] <alex_joni> and SOPA
[06:28:06] <ries> SOPA is preferred
[06:44:08] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[06:44:29] <Loetmichel> Error: "p word with no G4......G89"
[06:44:43] <Loetmichel> no P allowed in G02... where did i go wrong?
[06:45:01] <skunkworks> do you have v2.5?
[06:46:16] <Loetmichel> no idea... lets look ;)
[06:46:35] <Loetmichel> 2,4,6
[06:46:58] <skunkworks> it is implemented in 2.5
[06:47:16] <Loetmichel> grrr.. so i have t install a newer version?
[06:47:42] <Loetmichel> is the 2.5 already out for "apt-get" or do i have to compile it myself?
[06:47:59] <Loetmichel> the CNC computer has internet.
[06:48:02] <skunkworks> no - but soon ish
[06:48:02] <psha[work]> buildbot
[06:48:09] <skunkworks> yes - build bot
[06:48:30] * Loetmichel isnt THAT fluent with linux.
[06:48:33] <Loetmichel> just a user ;-)
[06:48:44] <psha[work]> i mean pacakges are available from buildbot
[06:48:54] <psha[work]> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[06:50:02] <Loetmichel> is it recommendet to install that on a "production" machine?
[06:50:13] <Loetmichel> or better on a "test machine"?
[06:50:17] <Loetmichel> -t+d
[06:50:26] <psha[work]> 2.5 relases is mostly holded by documentation issues
[06:50:27] <psha[work]> not bugs
[06:50:42] <psha[work]> but it's better to install on test machine first :)
[06:52:08] <Loetmichel> i think i better use a 3mm drill and widen the holes after drilling on the CNC with a 3,5mm drill bit and a battery drill
[06:52:42] <Loetmichel> and let the machine computer in a state where it runs flawless ;-)
[06:53:21] <psha[work]> i've at least one production installation of 2.5 and it's working fine
[06:53:45] <jthornton> I have 3 production installations of 2.5
[06:54:28] <jthornton> you can get a buildbot deb
[07:00:46] <psha[work]> bb
[07:37:23] <awallin> are the mailing-lists also going to change name?
[07:40:44] <jepler> awallin: yes, we expect the addresses of the mailing lists to change when we make a sourceforge project rename request. http://mid.gmane.org/20120118180104.GB5746@unpythonic.net
[07:41:25] <MattyMatt> meh EMC corp 1979, NIST 1993. I guess they win the priority battle
[07:44:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wS_URQsyTU&feature=youtu.be <- yay! made a little program with g02... seems to work ;-)
[08:20:41] <servant741> .
[08:20:53] <Loetmichel> so, redone it with 15mm "drill" diameter... works.... -> http://youtu.be/UEd4LCJ3uWk
[08:53:00] <Loetmichel> so, now i "just" have to get the open/close cords into the profile, then i can put the curtain on the puppet theater for my niece/nephew. :-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12679 http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12682
[08:54:46] * Loetmichel had made a swiss cheese out of the aluminium square tube ;-)
[09:54:40] <sirHOAX> can't wait to try your software. mach3 is giving me blue-screens on exiting the program. plus you have to reload the skin right when you load it, to get missing buttons to appear.
[09:55:03] <sirHOAX> and configs change on their own.
[09:55:30] <sirHOAX> how can you run a reliable cnc w/software like that?
[09:55:52] <sirHOAX> doing the switch.
[10:13:04] <skunkworks> sirHOAX: welcome to linuxcnc
[10:19:44] <syyl_ws> hmm
[10:19:57] <sirHOAX> hi, thanks.
[10:20:12] <syyl_ws> hi sirHOAX
[10:20:24] <syyl_ws> also a mach victim? ;)
[10:21:22] <sirHOAX> heh. knew i couldn't be the only one.
[10:21:25] <FinboySlick> sheesh, I never thought mach3 was so nasty.
[10:21:45] <syyl_ws> mach can be pretty funny
[10:21:45] * FinboySlick never used it, mind you.
[10:21:52] <sirHOAX> did they script that in VB?
[10:22:26] <syyl_ws> but now i got a emc problem ;)
[10:22:28] <FinboySlick> Hehehe, I don't think I'd blame mach3 for the programming language they use. That might be the one bit where they're more consistent than EMC.
[10:22:36] <syyl_ws> hooked up an encoder to my mesa card
[10:22:38] <syyl_ws> 5i20
[10:22:46] <syyl_ws> works fine, except for index
[10:23:14] <syyl_ws> the gpio.017.in pin changes its status, when the index is triggered
[10:23:28] <syyl_ws> but encoder.02.index-enable doesnt change
[10:23:40] <syyl_ws> shouldnt that be hooked up together?
[10:24:24] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: Did you try the emc livecd yet?
[10:25:32] <sirHOAX> just moved my cnc so haven't had the chance. was just getting everything put back in place ready to mill. then discovered the software headaches
[10:26:27] <sirHOAX> might try a vmware, but not sure how the software will translate through the layered OS to the hardware.
[10:26:39] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: I doubt it.
[10:26:57] <pcw_home> You can test index easily by hand (set index enable true, turn encoder, see if it goes false when index occurs)
[10:27:11] <skunkworks> syyl_ws: you need to hook those 2 pins up in the hal file
[10:27:23] <skunkworks> wait
[10:27:36] <syyl_ws> doesnt the encoder.02 automaticaly use the correct pin?
[10:27:36] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: EMC can be a bit picky in terms of hardware. The livecd will boot to a functional state without bothering your existing installation.
[10:27:40] <syyl_ws> using the mesa-encoderx
[10:27:45] <skunkworks> (don't listen to me)
[10:27:50] <sirHOAX> any clue if emc works w/the cheaper *.cn cards found on ebay?
[10:28:00] <sirHOAX> FinboySlick, k will try that. tnx.
[10:28:20] * skunkworks just woke up
[10:28:26] <servant742> Suggestions for a free CAD package for a rookie who used to be pretty good on drafting boards? 2d for now. Hope to do 3d in the future. Linux based desktop. ... Thnx
[10:28:40] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: Boot the livecd, run a latency test and try to get the best result possible while working with the machine.
[10:28:40] <syyl_ws> ok, skunkworks ;)
[10:28:42] <bill20r3> FreeCAD..
[10:28:47] <syyl_ws> try qcad
[10:28:52] <bill20r3> or QCAD
[10:28:56] <syyl_ws> :)
[10:29:07] <sirHOAX> will do. keep my fingers crossed. :-]
[10:29:33] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: Are you in the US?
[10:29:38] <sirHOAX> yeS.
[10:30:00] <FinboySlick> I know a place where you might still be able to grab atom 330 boards.
[10:30:09] <servant742> thnks syyl_ws & bill20r3
[10:30:48] <sirHOAX> are you using them?
[10:31:02] <FinboySlick> http://www.thrift-king.com/intel-desktop-board-d945gclf2-with-integrated-intel-atom-processor-motherboard-mini-itx-micro-atx-intel-atom-330-i945gc-1-6-ghz-retail.html <-- It's what's given me the best results so far.
[10:31:55] <FinboySlick> get the best pc4200 ram you can find for it, it'll take other/faster ram, but getting low timing ram of that speed gave me an extra boost.
[10:33:26] <sirHOAX> nice. compact set-up.
[10:33:35] <sirHOAX> using an older dell tower
[10:33:39] <sirHOAX> p4 for now.
[10:33:53] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: Be sure to disable hyperthreading in bios for your test with that.
[10:34:05] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: Some of them have pretty good results though.
[10:34:15] <sirHOAX> k. tnx.
[10:34:28] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: disable anything you don't plan to use.
[10:34:31] <FinboySlick> sound card, etc.
[10:34:36] <FinboySlick> in bios.
[10:35:04] <FinboySlick> if you don't have USB hardware connected to it, disable that too, it can help a fair bit in some cases.
[10:35:27] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: On one of my boxes, the sata controller was terrible, but using IDE gave me great results.
[10:36:01] <sirHOAX> hopefully today can start testing the software. will have to download the live-cd and have at it.
[10:36:19] <FinboySlick> OK good luck, and welcome to EMC :)
[10:36:37] <sirHOAX> or is it on the standard iso for download. same option to live boot the cd or install w/ubuntu
[10:36:51] <sirHOAX> may of downloaded it already
[10:37:07] <sirHOAX> let me burn it
[10:37:41] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: Well, it has to be the emc-specific ubuntu livecd. It will both run a live distro and install to disk, you're given a choice as it starts up.
[10:37:54] <sirHOAX> k. thought so.
[10:38:06] <sirHOAX> nice feature :)
[10:38:33] <FinboySlick> Having to do a full install just to test hardware that might not work would be quite a pain in the butt.
[10:39:08] <sirHOAX> ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc1-i386.iso
[10:40:06] <sirHOAX> no please no more pains, the learning curve on this thing, plus the frustrations w/throwing it gcode and calibration is enough for anyone :)
[10:40:33] <sirHOAX> just trying to get it to do a .57" exact mill was hours of fun.
[10:41:28] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: You using a parallel port?
[10:41:33] <sirHOAX> yes sir
[10:43:11] <FinboySlick> It'll be pretty straightforward. First you get a good latency test to figure out your max jitter. Then you run stepconf wizard to define what pin does what and the characteristics for each axis. There's some values you might want to dig out for your driver timings.
[10:43:28] <skunkworks> FinboySlick: I have tested a lot of hardware with emc - I have only had one or 2 motherboards I could not get to work. (other than laptops)
[10:44:16] <skunkworks> an old hp and an compaq that just would not get any lower than about 50k latency
[10:44:33] <skunkworks> I did have to apply the smi patch to a few..
[10:45:56] <sirHOAX> well i'm more than willing to change hardware. as long as its stable :-)
[10:46:10] <sirHOAX> have an old pIII board here i have been saving.
[10:46:14] <sirHOAX> might come in handy.
[10:46:17] <skunkworks> I have not had emc crash on me.
[10:46:18] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: Then keep an eye on that link I gave you.
[10:46:19] <skunkworks> ever
[10:46:30] <sirHOAX> k. will do.
[10:47:14] <sirHOAX> have a ubuntu up right now feeding video
[10:47:20] <sirHOAX> stable +1
[10:47:25] <sirHOAX> minimal install.
[10:47:27] <skunkworks> I have had the web browser crash on me while I has machining.. linuxcnc kept right on going.
[10:47:51] <skunkworks> sirHOAX: what kind of machine are you running?
[10:48:09] <sirHOAX> k2cnc. w/a cheap *.cn controller found on ebay.
[10:48:23] <sirHOAX> kt2514 to be exact.
[10:48:33] <skunkworks> I think there are a lot of threads on cnczone on those controllers..
[10:48:40] <bill20r3> is it a "LQQK! TB6560 4-AXIS CNC!" controller?
[10:48:42] <sirHOAX> only XYZ atm no A axis
[10:48:48] <skunkworks> might be to do some searchin on there...
[10:49:16] <sirHOAX> well shouldn't say cheap it was $100usd
[10:49:35] <sirHOAX> but it maybe considered cheap next to better boards.
[10:50:06] <bill20r3> I have one of those. do your motors hiss crazy-loud?
[10:50:33] <bill20r3> I changed out an osc cap and it quieted it way down, it's even almost usable.
[10:50:36] <sirHOAX> heh. they make some noises idle. nothing that loud tho.
[10:51:41] * FinboySlick has to learn electronics... He wouldn't be able to figure out which cap to change on a misbehaving board ;)
[10:51:41] <sirHOAX> have a kellyware controller also. worked w/kcam but not mach3
[10:51:54] <sirHOAX> only reason i bought the *.cn controller was for the mach3 support
[10:52:05] <sirHOAX> but again, proved unworthy software.
[11:00:05] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: electronics is simple. Logic even.
[11:01:43] <Loetmichel> the cheap chinese TB65XX Controllers are not bad for the money... low voltage but thats ok if you dont want to go really fast.
[11:05:03] <mrsun> started scraping the freakin dovetail .... sigh its a small place to be scraping in but atleast it gets better and better =)
[11:05:11] <mrsun> the scraping job wont be my best thought ...
[11:11:55] <Farthen> FinboySlick: the problem of electronics is definitely not the theoretical part. :)
[11:12:04] <sirHOAX> Loetmichel, yea noticed that later on can only do 24VDC max.
[11:12:14] <sirHOAX> running mine 12v ATM.
[11:12:22] <sirHOAX> gets the job done.
[11:12:31] <sirHOAX> heh. shame it can't do 48VDC. :[
[11:13:11] <Farthen> FinboySlick: it is more like the "i am sure i can fix this, give me a minute" problem. i for myself ended up with a big pile of fried hardware over time :P
[11:13:17] <MattyXP> Loetmichel they go faster if you bypass the optos
[11:15:11] <MattyXP> the stepping rate is severely limited with them, and they do nothing for you as there's a buffer before them anyway
[11:15:43] <sirHOAX> think i'm getting 18IPM out of that board @ 12VDC in. give or take a few.
[11:16:09] <sirHOAX> nothing crazy. but it works.
[11:17:05] <MattyXP> I switched from 1/2 step to 1/16 and totally wrecked my top speed, so it's either my board or the PC
[11:18:53] <sirHOAX> your saying w/the bypass?
[11:19:02] <MattyXP> with 1/2 step on all axis, I could get the motors somewhere in between 200 and 300 rpm. I thought that was as good as it gets on 12V but I think it'll be better with optos bypassed
[11:19:18] <MattyXP> no not done the bypass yet
[11:19:26] <MattyXP> many people have tho
[11:19:39] <MattyXP> in the thread on cnczone about them
[11:29:49] <MattyXP> I used mine for a year without realising there was anything wrong with it. I blamed the 12V for the lack of speed, and the ATX smps for the noise
[11:30:56] <MattyXP> I'm just about to try yanking the optos
[11:31:06] <MattyXP> I'll report back in 30
[11:32:30] <mrsun> seconds?
[11:32:31] <mrsun> minutes?
[11:32:31] <mrsun> hours?
[11:32:32] <mrsun> days?
[11:32:34] <mrsun> years?
[11:32:35] <mrsun> ;P
[11:39:13] <MattyXP> non-specific duration units
[11:39:29] <Tom_itx> so is #emc officially closed now?
[11:40:50] <Tom_itx> i gather it is since jepler did a blanket kick there
[11:44:32] <MattyCNC> how did pidgin know to redirect here?
[11:44:46] <MattyCNC> nm, don't care
[11:44:50] <Tom_itx> the channel did a redirect
[11:44:59] <Tom_itx> emc was forwarded
[11:45:07] <MattyCNC> excellent
[11:45:32] <Tom_itx> don't rely on that though
[11:51:08] <MattyCNC> I 'd like to know which clever person at velleman thought 5 rechargable AA was a good idea
[11:51:24] <MattyCNC> my charger only does pairs
[11:52:13] <MattyCNC> meh screw the scope. speed test is all that counts
[11:55:56] <alex4nder-> ner
[12:00:23] <mrsun> hmm, maybe go scrape some more...
[12:04:04] <Jymmm> Oh noes.... #emc is no more
[12:05:03] <Jymmm> MattyCNC: 1.2V * 5 = 6V
[12:05:16] <Jymmm> MattyCNC: so what device you talkin bout?
[12:07:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Yes, is closed but I broke in! Muhahahaha
[12:08:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: So grab your spray paint and sledge hammers and we can just trash the place!!!
[12:09:06] <IchGucksLive> Hi all around the globe
[12:09:18] <Jymmm> hi
[12:09:50] <MattyMatt> Jymmm Velleman 10Mhz handheld scope
[12:09:56] <MattyMatt> it's a toy
[12:10:07] <Jymmm> MattyCNC: probably needs the 6V then
[12:10:09] <MattyMatt> ghastly screen
[12:10:38] <MattyMatt> DC input is 9V, they coulda used 6x AA instead :)
[12:10:43] <IchGucksLive> is there a Documentation how to drive a H-brige throu emc
[12:11:17] <MattyMatt> with one pin or 2?
[12:11:20] <Jymmm> MattyCNC: 9v adapter was probably cheaper than 6v
[12:11:33] <IchGucksLive> 2 pin Dir PWM
[12:12:15] <IchGucksLive> what about brake H-brige have 4 state
[12:15:04] <skunkworks> IchGucksLive: I have done pwm+pwm..
[12:15:15] <skunkworks> (2 pins)
[12:15:27] <sirHOAX> nice. emc works. livecd. +1
[12:15:45] <skunkworks> 1 pwm pin for cw and 1 pwm pin for ccw
[12:15:51] <sirHOAX> buhbye mach3. hello stability.
[12:16:25] * Jymmm graffiti's the walls in #emc
[12:16:49] <IchGucksLive> skunkworks: do you got a sketch for this i want to use BUZ11
[12:17:35] <sirHOAX> going to try to run this off a compact flash drive.
[12:18:13] <skunkworks> buz11?
[12:19:04] <IchGucksLive> skunkworks: the Mosfeets to drive a DC brushless at 24V
[12:20:57] <MattyXP> brushless? I thought you needed at least 3 half-bridges for that
[12:22:40] <IchGucksLive> it only has 2 cables so 1 Full H-brige
[12:24:06] <skunkworks> that doesn't make sense
[12:24:12] <MattyXP> probably not brushless then
[12:24:45] <IchGucksLive> 3557k024cs Motor
[12:25:27] <IchGucksLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen exactly the same
[12:25:30] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: watch for useless writes and have a backup ready.
[12:25:46] <FinboySlick> CF aren't the most durable of storage devices.
[12:26:50] <sirHOAX> not sure these are for embedded industrial applications.
[12:27:36] <sirHOAX> >6,000,000 hours.
[12:28:16] <sirHOAX> its not a standard camera compact flash. from what i understand.
[12:28:37] <FinboySlick> sirHOAX: I think it has more to do with the number of writes... But yeah, industrial cards are a lot better. They do some wear leveling too so the more extra space you have the better.
[12:30:49] <MattyMatt> IchGucksLive, it's brushed DC
[12:31:41] <MattyMatt> so H-bridge is correct at least :) config I know nothing about tho
[12:32:48] <sirHOAX> FinboySlick, yea just can't have a swap space. ;-q
[12:33:31] <IchGucksLive> thanks
[12:34:30] <sirHOAX> Endurance > 5,000,000 program/erase cycles
[12:35:59] <Jymmm> 5M ?! For a CF/SD?! I seriously doubt that
[12:36:32] <sirHOAX> heh. take it up with the manufacturer spec sheet. ;-)
[12:37:08] <Jymmm> what brand?
[12:37:45] <sirHOAX> http://www.advantech.com/products/SQF-P10/mod_61913DA4-CC76-490C-8B06-6DF13B5EE7E4.aspx
[12:38:11] <sirHOAX> its only 2gig.
[12:38:18] <sirHOAX> have to squeeze it on there. :-q
[12:38:57] <Jymmm> never heard of them
[12:39:16] <Jymmm> and never will either!
[12:39:27] <Jymmm> 5M write cycles my ass!
[12:39:52] <sirHOAX> k.
[12:40:32] <Jymmm> Just make sure you do a backup frequently, rsync is your friend.
[12:40:50] <Jymmm> you can even backup to another cf card
[12:41:02] <FinboySlick> 2gigs is going to be tight as a shrink fit tool holder.
[12:42:00] <sirHOAX> minimal install. install only necessary packages for emc.
[12:42:08] <sirHOAX> aptitude/apt-get
[12:42:49] <sirHOAX> what are you guys looking at in terms of space w/the cd-iso installed?
[12:43:06] <Jymmm> 2.000000000000000000000000000000001 GB
[12:43:47] * sirHOAX waunders off.
[12:46:11] <IchGucksLive> http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/dspic-servo.html im going with this
[13:10:25] <MattyMatt> mrsun. looks like 30 hours is closest. too tired to rig up lights to see the job now. trying to read the thread again sapped my energy
[13:11:53] <FinboySlick> MattyMatt: What were you doing?
[13:12:11] <MattyMatt> modding chinese 4 axis tb6560
[13:12:33] <MattyMatt> the simple way, bypassing the optos completely
[13:15:51] <IchGucksLive> MattyMatt: i got 5 of the 5Axis and modified it
[13:16:07] <IchGucksLive> the 3axis 24 boards run now for almost 2 years
[13:16:34] <IchGucksLive> Fr307 -> UFD5404
[13:16:44] <IchGucksLive> Factor 100
[13:16:56] <IchGucksLive> at 15 Euros
[13:17:25] <IchGucksLive> and also you need to put some wirers on to get more power over the board
[13:18:44] <MattyMatt> Dongguan Aerospace HY-TB4DV-M to give it its correct name
[13:19:27] <Connor> New channel ?
[13:19:58] <IchGucksLive> Connor: yes B)
[13:20:19] <MattyMatt> yep, the EMC² lawyers jumped on it. emc2 is now called linuxcnc
[13:20:50] <MattyMatt> at least the domain matches now :)
[13:21:03] <Connor> oh good grief.
[13:22:39] <MattyMatt> IchGucksLive, yep I like this board, but I don't know any better. it drives steppers OK, that was enough
[13:23:28] <MattyMatt> it was the reprap people who first told me it was crap
[13:24:44] <MattyMatt> and http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_electronics_discussion/110986-how_i_fixed_my_chinese.html told me why
[13:25:07] <MattyMatt> warning, that thread takes hours to read
[13:25:34] <IchGucksLive> for my steppers i got 100 in use it is perfect for larger ones i woudt go to Leadshine M542
[13:26:02] <IchGucksLive> http://www.robotshop.com/eu/3d-printers-rapid-prototyping-machines.html
[13:26:36] <IchGucksLive> the 5Axis is in there
[13:27:10] <IchGucksLive> modified with 0.3mm copper stripes
[13:27:28] <IchGucksLive> i got 0.7 Round isoladed copper wirer and it runs
[13:28:07] <IchGucksLive> since Diodes Changed no burnup anymore eaven at 3.5A on 5 sync steppers
[13:28:20] <MattyMatt> the copper isn't the problem on mine, it's the circuit design
[13:28:47] <IchGucksLive> the emc supports all pins
[13:29:03] <IchGucksLive> im not happy with this also
[13:29:31] <IchGucksLive> the main axis are not on the Dataports
[13:29:48] <MattyMatt> is yours the 5 axis on one board? they also do a breakout + 5 boards which looks a bit better
[13:30:04] <IchGucksLive> one board
[13:30:11] <MattyMatt> but $20 more, and I was being tight when I bought mine :)
[13:30:19] <IchGucksLive> i will give you a picture one moment
[13:30:32] <MattyMatt> yeah I've seen them. I live on ebay
[13:33:28] <IchGucksLive> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/200112202418_5axis.jpg
[13:37:18] <mrsun> hmm, what is the accepted standard for dovetail hmm whats it called, rocking back and forth :po
[13:37:31] <sirHOAX> if i would of knew the problems with these *.cn boards, would of steered clear of them alltogther.
[13:37:46] <mrsun> about 1dm out from the sadle the table rocks about 0.1mm ....
[13:37:46] <IchGucksLive> MattyMatt: http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/200112202822_5axis-box.jpg fits the box well
[13:37:49] <sirHOAX> potential went with stepperworld's controllers
[13:37:55] <mrsun> that would make about 0.05mm over 100mm i think
[13:38:02] <sirHOAX> http://www.stepperworld.com/fet3.htm
[13:38:14] <sirHOAX> could even build your own board relatively easy.
[13:39:25] <sirHOAX> they also have a 4axis.
[13:39:55] <IchGucksLive> 175Dollars
[13:40:13] <IchGucksLive> tiny thing
[13:40:24] <IchGucksLive> no headsink
[13:40:40] <IchGucksLive> oh i need to go by for today
[13:41:26] <sirHOAX> Each of the 12 Power MOSFETS on this board can dissipate up to 80 watts of power. Because they are not mounted to heat sinks you won't be able to squeeze quite that much power out of them, however, this configuration should be more than adequate for any reasonable stepper application. (A typical 100 oz in stepper only draws about 10 watts per phase.)
[13:50:12] <mrsun> for the setscrews for a dovetail thingie, is round tip or pointy tip better? :)
[13:51:07] <DaViruz> gib strips are better!
[13:51:14] <mrsun> gib strips ? :)
[13:51:27] <DaViruz> taperd gib strips that is
[13:51:40] <DaViruz> the adjustable portion of the dovetail
[13:51:41] <mrsun> DaViruz, duh ...
[13:51:54] <mrsun> yes i know what a gib is and its the set screw for those i was thinking :P
[13:52:06] <mrsun> dont have the means to try and make tapered gibs realy :P
[13:52:25] <DaViruz> :(
[13:54:51] <mrsun> if i had a dovetail cutter i guess i could convert it to have tapered gib but ...
[13:55:05] <mrsun> feels like alot of work for a machine i hate so much i wanna just throw it on the scrapheap
[13:57:29] <MattyMatt> mrsun I think the same angle as the dovetail is correct
[13:57:41] <MattyMatt> iirc that's what my old lathe has
[13:57:44] <mrsun> MattyCNC, so pointy with same angle as dovetail then ? :)
[13:57:50] <MattyMatt> yep
[13:58:03] <Connor> okay, so, how in the world can EMC2 say anything about EMC ?
[13:58:12] <mrsun> or maybe make a pin that the set screw presses on ? :P
[13:58:26] <MattyMatt> that would be ideal yeah
[13:58:35] <mrsun> tiny pinns tho :P
[13:59:09] <MattyMatt> what material is the gib?
[13:59:34] <MattyMatt> whatever it is, the biggest contact is probably best
[14:00:34] <MattyMatt> I'm planning 1 or 2mm ptfe gibs in wooden dovetails for the $2 lathe :)
[14:01:01] <MattyMatt> that stuff creeps
[14:03:21] <MattyMatt> cast iron is 9 times stiffer than wood, so afaics a 6x6" wooden bed will be as good as a 2x2" iron one
[14:03:50] <MattyMatt> ignoring hardness and abrasion issues
[14:04:04] <mrsun> MattyMatt, the current one is steel, hand ground by some chinease kid ... 1mm undersized or what i should call it
[14:04:22] <mrsun> gap is about 3.6 - 3.7mm, gib is 2.8mm thick
[14:05:00] <MattyMatt> I'd still use pointy screws to maximise the contact area
[14:06:05] <Connor> okay, so, how in the world can EMC2 say anything about EMC ?
[14:06:22] <mrsun> http://i43.tinypic.com/a3nwqf.png it presses on the gib like that, and that is quite a problem :P
[14:06:36] <mrsun> solved that with a piece of paper at the top of the gib on the backside of it temporarily :P
[14:06:39] <MattyMatt> I thought the gib was supposed to be slightly softer than the ways, so it gets most of the wear
[14:06:54] <MattyMatt> on my lathe their bronze
[14:06:58] <MattyMatt> they're
[14:08:32] <mrsun> yeah, im gonna change them but hard to find 3.5mm bronze or brass so i would have to modify a 4mm or stick a .5mm shim behind a 3mm :P
[14:08:35] <MattyMatt> ouch. could you drill new holes for the setscrews which are better centred on the slope of the table part?
[14:09:00] <mrsun> MattyMatt, i guess i could do that, just move them a couple of milli to the sides =)
[14:09:28] <mrsun> only problem is the locking nuts for the screws
[14:09:48] <MattyMatt> 1/8" = 3.175mm. buy your bronze from The Empire
[14:10:53] <MattyMatt> not perfect, but better than 2.8mm :)
[14:11:14] <mrsun> MattyMatt, so damn long wait to get it here :P
[14:11:48] <mrsun> i just wish i had a bigger mill and i would build my own mini mill, tho dont know what i need a mini mill for if i got a big one :P
[14:13:11] <MattyMatt> I've got an answer to that dilemma. make a really large but cheap one out of scaffold & concrete, and use that to make a better quality but smaller one
[14:13:48] <MattyMatt> that's actually a plan for a lathe, but I guess it works for mills too
[14:14:13] <mrsun> MattyMatt, haha :P
[14:14:47] <mrsun> i can make quite big alu castings tho :P but still will have to have a mill to make a mill :P
[14:14:49] <mrsun> or a shaper
[14:15:14] <MattyMatt> or a scraper and some patience :)
[14:16:26] <mrsun> MattyMatt, hmm, might be true still making stuff like dovetails etc without a machine ... yish ...
[14:16:46] <mrsun> i guess for small parts i could use the lathe as a mill :P
[14:16:52] <MattyMatt> my plan didn't quite work. I made my mill big & cheap, but it's not quite good enough to make one better and smaller
[14:17:46] <MattyMatt> or it wasn't, I've added more wood to the structure, hopefully I can mill alu now
[14:18:36] <mrsun> http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ozT1G3WqXg4/TUqsPuzQqeI/AAAAAAAALKM/HweM0rgDKQU/s800/gib.jpg pointy tip it seems it is :P
[14:19:29] <MattyMatt> cool
[14:19:37] <MattyMatt> nice to confirm that
[14:19:40] <A2Sheds> I've only opened a played with a file in HeeksCAD, does openscad have more or less features? (I usually run NX, proe, SW etc)
[14:19:54] <mrsun> maybe make a gingery shaper =)
[14:20:25] <MattyMatt> openscad is not a graphical modeller, it's a programming language
[14:21:41] <MattyMatt> it's like the scripting language you find in most CAD, without the CAD :) (except for the output window)
[14:21:51] <A2Sheds> ah ok
[14:23:17] <MattyMatt> I'm a bit skeptical whether it's better than python scripting in a real cad/3d package
[14:23:34] <MattyMatt> in fact a lot skeptical
[14:23:55] <MattyMatt> but the #reprap peeps sure like it so I'm persevering for a while
[14:24:42] <MattyMatt> it's the de facto standard for reprap parametric parts
[14:26:22] <MattyMatt> afaics it will die when there's a good python lib that wraps into blender, heeks and freecad
[14:27:16] <MattyMatt> it should die because it output STLs so broken it can't even import them itself
[14:28:56] <MattyMatt> cross-platform on blender means a script that works on 2.43 AND 2.44
[14:30:03] <MattyMatt> actually 2.43 to 2.49 was the golden age of blender API stability
[14:30:34] <MattyMatt> that's why so many ppl still use 2.49
[14:33:21] <MattyMatt> the last time I ran HeeksCAD, it was nowhere near blender for basic modelling funcs
[14:34:25] <MattyMatt> freecad is the only one that makes me consider abandoning blender for CAD
[14:35:14] <MattyMatt> but then I start wondering whether it's be better to copy freecads features into blender :)
[14:36:07] <Loetmichel> sirHOAX/ MattyXP: i have grilled one of the china boards lately
[14:36:12] <Loetmichel> by accident
[14:37:04] <Loetmichel> (PSU to small, wanted to give it some buffer with 2 12V 7A lead-acid... managed to switch + and - :-(
[14:37:23] <MattyMatt> shorting the motor output doesn't count :) that thread had loads of posts that went "I blew 2 channels by miswiring. stupid chinese people, I'm buying geckos"
[14:37:47] <syyl_ws> dont the geckos burn of pretty easy too?
[14:37:50] <Loetmichel> result: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12554
[14:38:19] <MattyMatt> syyl_ws, dunno, I can't afford to destruct test any geckos :)
[14:38:27] <syyl_ws> ;)
[14:38:47] <MattyMatt> I've heard they are a bit tougher than single chip drivers tho
[14:38:53] <Loetmichel> btw: the china boards can do 36V, not only 24
[14:39:03] <syyl_ws> mrsun? i took out the scraper today, too
[14:39:09] <syyl_ws> my victim is a vice :D
[14:39:13] <Loetmichel> but thats the hard limit of the chips, any volt higher and http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12554 ;-)
[14:39:13] <MattyMatt> I've been told not to go over 30V on them
[14:39:34] <syyl_ws> ok, good to know
[14:39:48] <mrsun> syyl_ws, nice that im not alone in this insanity =)
[14:39:53] <syyl_ws> ;)
[14:39:59] <syyl_ws> it was 2/100mm off
[14:40:06] <sirHOAX> yea well. haven't burnt my board out yet. accidentally put it in a closed case with little to no ventilation. soon realizing that it was getting extremely hot
[14:40:26] <sirHOAX> almost killed it. but later raised the enclosure to let air in.
[14:40:29] <syyl_ws> now i am down to 5/1000...
[14:40:53] <sirHOAX> for now its doing its job.
[14:41:01] <sirHOAX> but higher speeds. might as well just get another set-up.
[14:41:21] <sirHOAX> it doesn't look like it will get 120IPM
[14:41:35] <sirHOAX> mine is doing 18IPM if i'm lucky.
[14:41:42] <sirHOAX> and not sure if that is even accurate.
[14:42:03] <sirHOAX> motors stall like crazy with this card.
[14:43:00] <MattyMatt> the chips are OK I think, up to their 3.5A at ~30V max
[14:43:19] <sirHOAX> yea may get a 30+ VDC adjustable power supply
[14:43:27] <sirHOAX> see if i can get more IPM out of this set-up
[14:43:31] <sirHOAX> hopefully that helps
[14:43:43] <MattyMatt> I'll make discrete drivers next. I have some 5 phase motors already
[14:44:01] <sirHOAX> yea looking to do the A axis
[14:44:05] <sirHOAX> should be fun.
[14:44:27] <sirHOAX> do some cylindrical designs.
[14:48:00] <MattyMatt> gears and toothed pulleys is what I use my 4th for
[14:48:58] <MattyMatt> it's a nema17 in the vice :)
[14:49:22] <MattyMatt> no chuck. I bore the workpiece first and fit a setscrew
[14:52:09] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: the tb6560 can cope with op to 40V. (absolute maximum). One should look for other components on the board (SPSU-cuip for 5V, Electrolytics)... if all is clear i would reccomend to stay below 38V supply for the motors 'cause so you have 2 Volts Headriim for spikes
[14:55:13] <sirHOAX> kewl. nice that you can make your own parts. ;-)
[14:55:15] <sirHOAX> http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/444/dsc02988u.jpg
[14:55:20] <sirHOAX> something i did recent testing.
[14:55:35] <sirHOAX> trying to calibrate.
[14:55:46] <Loetmichel> sirHOAX: lost foam casting?
[14:55:49] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:56:12] <sirHOAX> heh. you've done it before?
[14:56:24] <Loetmichel> yes
[14:56:48] <Loetmichel> but in smaller size
[14:57:53] <MattyMatt> Loetmichel, one problem with the 5V is that it should be stable before Vmot is applied, or else the half-bridge drivers may not be ready to prevent crossover
[14:58:08] <Loetmichel> made some rings and jewelery teeth-silver
[14:58:14] <Loetmichel> + out of
[14:58:34] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: that is no real problem
[14:58:57] <sliptonic_shop> I'm having trouble getting axis (emc 2.4.6) to recognize a .axisrc file. Any obvious reasons why it would be ignored?
[14:59:13] <Loetmichel> 'cause the mormal Buck-regulators are starting when the main voltage is at about 6V
[14:59:30] <Loetmichel> so when the Vmot reaches 38V the 5V are stable
[14:59:52] <MattyMatt> so a slow rising Vmot is best? big fat cap?
[14:59:58] <Loetmichel> .... IF there are enough capacitors on the Vmot
[15:00:17] <Rogge> Anyone using the class browser plugin for gedit to make writing python code a little easier?
[15:00:31] <MattyMatt> this HY-TB4DV-M has one big electro per chip
[15:01:30] <MattyMatt> cool that's saved me the cost of an SSR
[15:02:07] <MattyMatt> actually if I'm ever rich enough to fix stuff before it breaks, I'll buy geckos myself :)
[15:04:45] <MattyMatt> hi andy
[15:05:25] <andypugh> Hi
[15:06:10] <andypugh> Just made a boring bar exactly the right length for what I think the big-end bearings are. I hope I am correct...
[15:06:19] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: my CNC runs of an old Eospn Needle printer PSU at the moment
[15:06:31] <andypugh> Otherwise I have made it exactly the wrong length.
[15:06:38] <Loetmichel> 5V 2A and 32V 2,5A... fits like a glove ;-)
[15:06:45] <Loetmichel> epson
[15:07:31] <Loetmichel> ... and we have about 100 laying around in the company no longer needed ;-)
[15:08:45] <MattyMatt> I just extracted a 36V from a Microline 92A. I wouldn't have touched it if it was an Epson. they still have drivers and ribbons available
[15:09:01] <andypugh> I think it would be hard to beat this for a stepper machine: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260927741558#ht_500wt_1213
[15:09:38] <andypugh> 10A 50V plus 12, 25 and 5.
[15:09:55] <MattyMatt> sweeeeet
[15:10:38] <MattyMatt> I've made my bed tho. I've got this 9A 25V which I recently realised will come out close to 35V DC
[15:11:09] <MattyMatt> I always thought 240V mains was peak to peak not RMS
[15:11:10] <andypugh> But does it have a handle?
[15:11:32] <ds3> it should be RMS
[15:11:41] <ds3> since 120V is RMS
[15:12:15] <andypugh> PCW: How much trouble would it be to make a SVSS4_6_7i39? ie 4x encoders and PWMs on P2, 7i39 on P3 and 8xSSLBP on P4 ?
[15:12:17] <MattyMatt> I beleive it is, and so the 25V output is also RMS, so it'll be sailing close to exploding volts on TB6560
[15:12:41] <andypugh> TB6560 don't need an excuse to explode.
[15:12:51] <ds3> 120V is H to G. 240V is usually H to H
[15:13:10] <andypugh> ds3: UK. We have manly mains electric.
[15:13:14] <PCW> andypugh: Not hard (5I23 only though wont fit in a 5I20)
[15:13:20] <ds3> now if you are using a cheater setup using a single phase of a 3PH setup
[15:13:27] <andypugh> Aye, 5i23 is what I have.
[15:13:39] <ds3> andypugh: ah... is both sides hot in the UK?
[15:13:52] <andypugh> No, neutral hovers a few volts from ground.
[15:14:09] <MattyMatt> 3ph is 415V
[15:14:13] <andypugh> It hurts if you touch the live, but not the neutral.
[15:14:52] <PCW> I can make such a config but it will have to wait till next week
[15:14:56] <A2Sheds> what if the neutral is not grounded?
[15:15:11] <MattyMatt> more like 400V now, they are winding it down while the german 220V is winding up. 20 years from now they'll be the same
[15:16:00] <andypugh> PCW: No desperate rush.
[15:16:06] <MattyMatt> my actual measured here is 235V but it's nominal 230V
[15:16:22] <andypugh> I won't need it until I have the mill running with the 8i20s, and thats a way off yet.
[15:18:47] <MattyMatt> arrgh my boot has worn through. I hope boots haven't doubled in price like hdd
[15:19:04] <MattyMatt> or else I'll be skint again real soon
[15:19:18] <jstenback> Congratulations!
[15:19:30] <jstenback> er, wrong window, ignore me
[15:19:42] <MattyMatt> thank you anyway :)
[15:27:19] <andypugh> MattyMatt: CNC-mill a cobbler's last, then study "How it's made" until you can figure out how to make your own boots?
[15:32:25] <MattyMatt> or I'll patch up the hole with sanitary silicone
[15:33:07] <MattyMatt> seems to have worked on my previous pair. I'll switch back to them for now
[15:34:29] <MattyMatt> cheap asda boots both pairs. good uppers but the soles wear out, like Clarks Polyveldts I used to wear at school on account of my huge flat feet
[15:35:36] <MattyMatt> swimming and shot putt champ, but sicknote for all others
[15:36:00] * MattyMatt shoulda been a copper
[15:36:01] <Loetmichel> andypugh: "you are no hobbist until you catch yourself making a tool to make a tool to build a rig to mill something which pourpose is long forgotten"?
[15:37:15] <MattyMatt> you might just be an unfocused pro :)
[15:38:11] <MattyMatt> I do stuff the hard way only if I think I'll learn something. I'm training myself to be a pro, hopefully
[15:39:28] <MattyMatt> one day my time will be far too valuable to make tools
[15:40:38] <andypugh> Loetmichel: I often think that when writing a driver for hardware I don't intend to use, linked to a software package that I using to make parts for a CNC machine using the CNC machine I built to make a clock. I started years ago, and still haven't made a single clock part...
[15:40:38] <jdhNC> then you can make your own motors!
[15:41:05] <andypugh> Oh, yes, I am making my own motors too, I forgot that.
[15:41:18] <MattyMatt> I'm planning that too :)
[15:41:32] <MattyMatt> 9 phase steppers with 3MT bore
[15:41:59] <bill20r3> You're making your own motors? you can do that?
[15:42:02] <bill20r3> crazy
[15:42:46] <MattyMatt> that's what Mrs Vexta said
[15:43:02] <bill20r3> heh.
[15:43:07] <andypugh> bill20r3: Yes, it isn't even all that hard: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5682019142697919810
[15:43:08] <bill20r3> Geek humor
[15:43:40] <bill20r3> andy, do you mean re-winding stators like the rc-nerds do?
[15:43:48] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEI6TBwydqs&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&index=2&feature=plcp
[15:44:11] <bill20r3> awesomepants
[15:44:17] <andypugh> No, made from scratch: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5679037859998520482
[15:45:12] <MattyMatt> I can't understande why large-bore motors aren't readily available. they seem quite useful for allsorts, but mostly as instant spindles
[15:46:31] <bill20r3> Matty, I recently bought one of those pauljones spindles, it's ok.
[15:46:38] <bill20r3> better than the proxxon I was using.
[15:47:06] <MattyMatt> I got 2 of those ER16 on 8mm shafts
[15:48:12] <MattyMatt> and I have abec 5 608s
[15:48:48] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I hadn't seen it spin yet. That's pretty awesome.
[15:48:52] <MattyMatt> and a 1/2 hp motor off an old pendant drill I'd forgotten about until just now
[15:49:18] <andypugh> FinboySlick: It runs a lot better than that now, it was running open-loop there.
[15:49:46] <FinboySlick> andypugh: So this is to be a servo?
[15:50:03] <andypugh> Yes, I am waiting for the encoder board.
[15:50:57] <FinboySlick> From the proportions it looks like you might get some decent torque out of it.
[15:51:34] <FinboySlick> Did you mill each layer of the core individually as in the pic, or did you end up ganging them together?
[15:52:11] <MattyMatt> waterjet would be the biz if you were making a few
[15:52:54] <andypugh> Yes, I could have had them waterjetted commercially, but it was going to be expensive.
[15:53:10] <andypugh> FinboySlick: I did them in pairs, and punched the central hole.
[15:53:45] <MattyMatt> commercially = sufficient excuse to buy one >:)
[15:54:53] <bill20r3> does anyone have strong opinions on a emc2 driven reprap?
[15:55:01] <FinboySlick> I want a bigger workshop and time to play with all the toys I'd put in it :P
[15:55:01] <MattyMatt> I had trouble pinning down a price for one. I found the whole machine in china for $100k
[15:55:09] <bill20r3> I'm pondering one, with a hardware pid controller for the heater.
[15:55:50] <MattyMatt> I put a parport on my arduino, so I can switch easily
[15:55:55] <bill20r3> clever.
[15:57:31] <MattyMatt> my latest thinkpad was cheaper than the arduino, so that's my next emc2 machine
[15:57:42] <bill20r3> totally.
[15:58:09] <bill20r3> I hate all the vertex blobs & such caused by crappy trajectory planning.
[15:58:11] <MattyMatt> it lacks a few keycaps but is otherwise healthy
[15:58:17] <bill20r3> & am generally sick of firmware issues.
[15:58:41] <MattyMatt> the new arm firmwares are looking nice
[15:59:02] <bill20r3> perhaps. I'm not keen on supporting casinho.
[15:59:13] <MattyMatt> but when you can get a 2Ghz thinkpad on ebay for £20, why bother?
[15:59:39] <bill20r3> yeah, totally. a cheap pc + cheap tb6560 board is about as much as an arduino mega + ramps
[15:59:43] <MattyMatt> it's only arrogance if you're not right :) 750mm/s says he's right
[15:59:58] <bill20r3> if someone could devise a clean solution for temp monitoring, it'd be all win.
[16:00:11] <bill20r3> I take issue with his idiot-rampage of last summer.
[16:00:24] <bill20r3> but that's neither here nor there.
[16:00:31] <MattyMatt> yeah he was a total dick on several occasions and on the record
[16:01:03] <MattyMatt> it was actually him that first ran a reprap on emc2 :)
[16:01:13] <bill20r3> I've seen.
[16:01:31] <bill20r3> dunno if he was "first", but so few have actually done it.(and posted anything..)
[16:02:13] <MattyMatt> triffid_hunter tried iirc, but the TB6560 let him down, probably the opto issue
[16:02:14] <bill20r3> anyway, I'm going to skip all the complex part by just using hardware PID
[16:02:32] <MattyMatt> for the heaters?
[16:02:34] <bill20r3> I wonder if there's a simple parallel-to-pololu board design.
[16:02:37] <bill20r3> yeah, pid for the heaters
[16:02:58] <andypugh> Surely EMC2 can handle software heater PID?
[16:03:20] <bill20r3> It certainly can, it's the analog-in part that I'd struggle with.
[16:03:21] <andypugh> And then you might be able to add precontrol on filament feed, so.
[16:03:24] <MattyMatt> if emc2 can use the sound card a/d it could
[16:03:27] <bill20r3> actaully reading the temps..
[16:03:52] <andypugh> I did suggest a way to do analogue-in to EMC2, but it was derided.
[16:04:17] <MattyMatt> 555 pwm?
[16:04:19] <bill20r3> can you explain it in a nutshell?
[16:04:34] <bill20r3> temp-to-pulse? then configure it like a spindle?
[16:04:47] <andypugh> The idea is to use a PWM output and a comparator. You know the PWM output value when the comparator switches.... For extra fun the PWM could track rather than ramp
[16:05:05] <MattyMatt> that's the old joystick port
[16:05:07] <bill20r3> can emc2 read pwm signal width?
[16:05:39] <bill20r3> I've only seen docs for reading pulse-timings
[16:05:49] <andypugh> Reading PWM is tricky. Even the Pros struggle (lots of buggy PWM readers have held me back at work this year)
[16:06:08] <MattyMatt> why not the sound inputs? if they are ac coupled the caps could be hacked out
[16:06:17] <andypugh> But there is no need to read the PWM, as it originates in HAL.
[16:06:43] <andypugh> Yeah, sound card ought to work. And generally they are not AC coupled.
[16:06:50] <bill20r3> Also, I'm limited by not having a mesa card, I want to just use parallel port.
[16:07:06] <andypugh> You can do PWM on the parallel port too.
[16:07:12] <MattyMatt> most pc have sound card tho
[16:07:59] <andypugh> Do you know if register-level access is possible? I looked into a it briefly, but it seemed all rather involved.
[16:07:59] <bill20r3> pwm input, to the parallel port?
[16:08:13] <andypugh> bill20r3: No, PWM output from the parallel port.
[16:09:07] <andypugh> The PWM output creates a reference voltage. The comparator switches when the voltages match, so knowing the PWM duty cycle at the switching point tells you the coltage.
[16:09:16] <PCW> A simpler way is just a charge balance A-D
[16:09:18] <PCW> EMC sets or clears output bit based on comparator output
[16:09:20] <PCW> output bit drives RC filter, EMC counts on cycles vs off cycles
[16:09:22] <MattyMatt> you need drivers for the sound chip. you probably have to depend on ALSA
[16:09:22] <PCW> (so variable resolution)
[16:09:25] <bill20r3> but I'd still need to read the temperature in, right?
[16:09:36] <bill20r3> that's the part that boggles me.
[16:10:00] <andypugh> bill20r3: That is what I am describing, a way to use a PWM output to read a voltage input.
[16:10:01] <MattyMatt> ALSA is already the lowest latency that can be achieved afaik
[16:10:25] <MattyMatt> without tying it to a particular sound chip
[16:11:08] <bill20r3> Oh, I see.(I think).
[16:11:47] <andypugh> You need an external RC network and a comparator.
[16:11:58] <bill20r3> so you're pwm'ing a signal out, using a thermocouple with a comparator(so the pwm duty signal varies with the temperature), and then reading the timing on the post-comparitor signal?
[16:12:15] <andypugh> No.
[16:12:33] <bill20r3> then I'm lost. at what point do you actually read a value back into emc2?
[16:12:49] <MattyMatt> you could keep the arduino for the heaters. there's a HAL driver for that
[16:13:00] <bill20r3> yeah, you could.
[16:13:17] <PCW> charge balance is identical hardware wise but a little simpler and easier to trade off resolution for conversion time
[16:13:23] <bill20r3> although I'd want to move the PID logic on to the pc, where I could actually debug it.
[16:13:32] <andypugh> You send out a PWM with a varying duty cycle. That creates a varying reference voltage to the comparator. When the comparator switches it's p-port pin, you look at what the PWM duty cycle was.
[16:13:37] <MattyMatt> and extra evil, you could use a max6656 and the i2c on the vga
[16:13:38] <bill20r3> but arduino purely for the thermistor might work ok.
[16:13:52] <bill20r3> mattymatt, Do it, I dare you.
[16:13:53] <bill20r3> :-)
[16:14:28] <PCW> take a look at the charge balance scheme it more noise resistant (intergrating)
[16:14:38] <MattyMatt> if I had more than 1 page of the matrox datasheet I would take that up
[16:14:58] <MattyMatt> I had them all on pdf, under NDA, and I lost them :(
[16:15:14] <MattyMatt> I just have one scrappy printed page left
[16:15:25] <bill20r3> i2c is used for lcd monitor EDID detection, right?
[16:15:40] <MattyMatt> and the dds on vga
[16:15:46] <MattyMatt> and hdmi
[16:16:48] <bill20r3> the wikis say "based on i2c"
[16:17:21] <andypugh> PCW: Who are you suggesting "charge balance" to?
[16:17:42] <MattyMatt> it's an 8 pin i2c eeprom in most old monitors
[16:17:50] <andypugh> I was thinking that a PID tracking the switch point would give lower sample times.
[16:18:00] <MattyMatt> the only digital component in crt :)
[16:18:45] <MattyMatt> I'm confident a matrox card could read general purpose i2c
[16:18:59] <MattyMatt> but anyways. no dare
[16:19:08] <andypugh> Apple did it by connecting pins together, then ran out of options, so used resistors, then ran out of options and used diodes. I spent quite a lot of time persuading non-Apple monitors to work with Macs.
[16:19:31] <PCW> You instead of PWM
[16:20:09] <andypugh> I think I need more background...
[16:20:13] <PCW> It has better noise/ aliasing resistance
[16:20:43] <andypugh> googling "charge balance" isn't helping.
[16:21:32] <andypugh> Ah, I might have found it
[16:21:34] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrating_ADC
[16:22:58] <andypugh> Yes, that ought to work easily, and fewer components too.
[16:23:37] <PCW> so the hardware is exactly the same as your PWM scheme -->
[16:23:39] <PCW> output bit drives RC filter --> RC filter goes to one comparator input
[16:23:41] <PCW> other comparator input goes to analog in, comparator output goes to input bit
[16:23:42] <PCW> but control is different (emc set output bit if comparator says too low other wise clears output bit)
[16:24:01] <bill20r3> DDC/edid hacks, interesting: http://www.paintyourdragon.com/?p=43
[16:24:16] <PCW> then over say 1000 cycles EMC counts number of time bit was on
[16:25:29] <andypugh> One posible advantage of the PWM scheme is that it needs N+1 pins, whereas the integrator needs 2N.
[16:25:45] <andypugh> But for a single channel, that's no different.
[16:28:10] <MattyMatt> 2 channels is usual for a reprap these days
[16:28:16] <MattyMatt> everyone has a heated bed
[16:28:44] <andypugh> Well, I guess they won't have girlfriends.
[16:29:12] <MattyMatt> but I'm thinking of occasional reprapping, mounting an extruder on an existing 3 axis mill
[16:30:39] <MattyMatt> for that, the arduino approach is probably best, so it glosses over whether it's a plastic melter or a paste/syringe extruder and just treats it like a tool
[16:31:41] <MattyMatt> e.g. I want to put a silicone gun on my mill, and use the reprap gcode generator with that
[16:32:25] <andypugh> MattyMatt: Extruding complete boot soles?
[16:32:53] <elmo40> id love to make my own boot soles!
[16:32:55] <MattyMatt> and why not :) people are already printing sandals
[16:33:13] <MattyMatt> they don't look very comfortable tho
[16:33:17] <andypugh> Yeah, with socks pre-installed?
[16:33:34] <MattyMatt> stand on a kinect for a perfect fit
[16:34:23] <MattyMatt> NHS paid £1300 for a pair of custom insole shoes for a diabetic who never wore them
[16:35:06] <elmo40> MattyMatt: that happens all the time
[16:35:12] <elmo40> tax dollars hard at work...
[16:35:26] <MattyMatt> but then the NHS paid £10bn for a mysql setup
[16:35:37] <elmo40> wow
[16:35:44] <elmo40> billion?
[16:35:46] <elmo40> what?
[16:35:49] <MattyMatt> yep
[16:36:10] <elmo40> well, more then just a mySQL... HOW do they use it. WHAT do they use it for. Is it all encompassing?
[16:36:12] <MattyMatt> and it was never delivered in time to stop the local places sorting their own
[16:36:18] <elmo40> for everything they work with?
[16:36:35] <MattyMatt> it had an obsolete AS-400 email system too
[16:36:46] <elmo40> do libraries charge to borrow a book?
[16:36:57] <EmcPT> After a 'git pull' and after a compile without errors, I now start emc and get quite a long error message, being the first: libnml/os_intf/_shm.c 206: shmget(1004(0x3EC),1024,0) failed: (errno = 2): No such file or directory
[16:37:10] <elmo40> ok, ill correct you there. Obsolete and AS/400 do not belong in the same sentence.
[16:37:15] <EmcPT> any clues?
[16:37:16] <alex4nder-> haha
[16:37:39] <elmo40> prob the most reliable piece of machinery you can get!
[16:37:43] <MattyMatt> I dunno if it was mySQL coulda been oracle or postgre, it wasn't anything special just a health records database
[16:38:20] <andypugh> I don't think I will ever adjust to typing cd linuxcnc-dev/src
[16:38:28] <MattyMatt> pork barrel operation. 10 years of high hog
[16:38:47] <MattyMatt> cancelled completely last year iirc
[16:39:21] * bill20r3 rewires his cpu thermistor all the way out to an extruder.
[16:39:30] <MattyMatt> :)
[16:39:52] <MattyMatt> there's the fan pwm & rpm too
[16:40:05] <bill20r3> oh yeah. there is.
[16:40:23] <bill20r3> pwm is output, rpm is pulse-input, yeah?
[16:40:33] <MattyMatt> they'd be wanted for the reprap fans tho, I guess. modern repraps have at least 2
[16:40:47] <bill20r3> I dont control my fans, they're just on.
[16:40:52] <andypugh> That would work, there is a HAL module for lmsensors
[16:41:09] <bill20r3> reeeeeallly....
[16:41:14] * bill20r3 did not know that.
[16:41:42] <MattyMatt> and, you can get extra fan controllers cheap
[16:42:05] <MattyMatt> I don't think the PC is aware of those tho, they run independently
[16:42:13] <bill20r3> yeah.
[16:42:22] <elmo40> 'just' a health records database... oh boy. there will be thousands of tables and thousands of columns in that table... and prob hundreds of databases for different things.
[16:44:00] <MattyMatt> yeah they did overcomplicate it
[16:44:36] <MattyMatt> single text file and a list of xray images woulda done
[16:44:48] <MattyMatt> per patient
[16:46:01] <MattyMatt> anyway money spent, lessons learned, local authorities have now been given permission to use open source solutions or better value commercial systems
[16:48:39] <elmo40> good luck on that.
[16:50:08] <MattyMatt> I'd have spent the money on a building as secure as the bank of england, and kept all the records in a vault with all transactions treated to max security. we've already had breaches of the police's DNA database
[16:52:21] <MattyMatt> if the DNA records were treated with sufficient respect they could have everyone on it without prejudice. at the moment it's just people who've been arrested
[16:52:45] <MattyMatt> so there's an assumption they're privacy isn't as important
[16:52:59] <MattyMatt> their
[16:53:30] <ds3> a
[16:56:09] <EmcPT> a few lines before I posted that running emc gave a error after compiling the current branch, but now I see that it should be linuxcnc instead of emc ...
[16:56:49] <MattyMatt> and change your nick, trademark abuser :)
[17:00:14] <MattyMatt> will emc be the motor cortex for androids in the future? will it ever work with an arbitrary number of axes?
[17:01:21] <andypugh> MattyMatt: EMC won't, that's for sure.
[17:02:10] <MattyMatt> yeah gcode for a walk cycle would be complicated
[17:02:11] <Tom_itx> andypugh: linuxcnc
[17:02:42] <andypugh> I was not clear what MattyMatt was asking.
[17:03:10] <andypugh> linuxcnc ought to grow an arbitrary number of joints at some point.
[17:03:15] <MattyMatt> a machine tool running gcode could run on top of the future universal motion system tho
[17:03:54] <MattyMatt> the HID spec is probably closest to what I'm thinking
[17:04:46] <MattyMatt> they've already got an ID for the motion of your left ankle, for instance. one way only afaik
[17:04:56] <alex4nder-> have you read the HID spec? :(
[17:05:05] <MattyMatt> parts of it
[17:05:23] <alex4nder-> no android would be walking using it. they'd be too busy jittering due to USB control message transfers.
[17:05:48] <MattyMatt> and actually the Human part is a limit. what about arachnoids?
[17:06:29] <andypugh> They are hiding in their Deepnesses waiting for the sun to start up
[17:08:44] <MattyMatt> ah well, just a bit of blue sky bullcrap to brighten up a stormy friday night :)
[17:09:08] <andypugh> Stormy? It's quiet and mild here.
[17:09:46] <MattyMatt> the germ of the idea was to offload the realtime and motion control part onto the kernel devs
[17:10:21] <MattyMatt> and then linuxcnc could be just a wrapper over the subset that is machine tools running gcode
[17:12:45] <andypugh> When can you have it finished?
[17:13:16] <MattyMatt> wishful thinking, like my idea that the only software worth writing is AI, and then let the AI finish everything else :)
[17:13:34] <elmo40> so true
[17:13:44] <elmo40> with restrictions, mind you!
[17:14:21] <MattyMatt> they will recieve direction of course, they'll just be code monkeys
[17:16:44] <sirHOAX> the future processors will be living tissue. ;-)
[17:16:51] <MattyMatt> they/it no need for more than one skynet
[17:17:16] <andypugh> I worked with living tissue for a while. Unlike steel, it goes mouldy.
[17:17:39] <Loetmichel> sirHOAX: i dont think so
[17:17:46] <Loetmichel> living tissue is to weak
[17:17:57] <MattyMatt> living tissue feels to much pain to do a decent job of coding big projects
[17:17:58] <sirHOAX> heh. think they are already working on it.
[17:18:24] <sirHOAX> coding with cells.
[17:18:40] <EmcPT> I am having a difficult time in understanding the toolchange tool call in the gcode for lathes. It is quite normall for me to have tools with several offsets or different tools that ocuppy the same position on the tool changer.
[17:18:41] <MattyMatt> I've seen the rat brain rc car :)
[17:18:48] <sirHOAX> hah. nice
[17:19:21] <EmcPT> For example I use in slot number 1 offset 1 and sometimes offset 13 and sometimes offset 20
[17:19:53] <sirHOAX> think my cells need an upgrade
[17:20:02] <andypugh> EmcPT: G43 H<whatever> lets you apply an offset other than the tool number
[17:20:48] <sirHOAX> can you donate to the emc-project? if i get this thing stable and use it daily.
[17:20:54] <andypugh> But any pocket can take any tool, so you could just have multiple tool numbers for some tools.
[17:21:00] <sirHOAX> er. linuxcnc, didn't see a link on the main page.
[17:21:06] <Loetmichel> but it could have "interesting" results to copy the neuronal net in sillicon i.e. an analog "fuzzy logic" computer with the speed of silicon
[17:21:19] <andypugh> As far as I know we have nowhere to donate to.
[17:21:43] <sirHOAX> k. can't afford anything right now anyway. :-)
[17:22:14] <sirHOAX> on a tight budget. but would like to give something.
[17:22:43] <sirHOAX> no random paypal addresses either .. want a link posted on the site ;)
[17:22:55] <MattyMatt> buy cradek a mesa card or some titanium :)
[17:23:14] <EmcPT> If I call M6 T2 G43H1 I am calling the H1 offset that refers to a particular pocket, that on the tool table only allows for unique use, this is, I cannot have two tool entrys with the same pocket... damm I am confused
[17:23:17] <andypugh> Give time? Do you speak any languages for which there are incomplete translations?
[17:23:31] <sirHOAX> can't say that i do.
[17:24:06] <andypugh> EmcPT: Me too. What you could do is have T2 the same physical tool as T22, but have different offsets.
[17:24:22] <andypugh> Then tell EMC2 that tool22 is in Pocket1
[17:24:41] <andypugh> I don't know if that works, or would do what you want.
[17:25:17] <MattyMatt> sirHOAX, bounties are a good way to combine self-interest and philanthropy
[17:25:22] <EmcPT> I started a few weeks ago... I think ebay will see my mesa cards ...
[17:25:22] <andypugh> I think JT-Shop uses gang-tooling, so has probably been through this?
[17:26:03] <EmcPT> I currently use arround 40 offsets on a 12 turret disk
[17:26:12] <andypugh> EmcPT: I think you hurt his feelings...
[17:26:27] <EmcPT> sorry
[17:26:52] <andypugh> No, I was joking, it was a timeout, but interesting timing.
[17:27:36] <MattyMatt> wow it's got late. gonna zzz
[17:28:08] <EmcPT> Can you edit manually the tool table instead of using the tooltable editor?
[17:28:18] <EmcPT> so skip the checking?
[17:28:26] <EmcPT> to skip the checking?
[17:29:10] <andypugh> Yes
[17:30:00] <andypugh> But then you might just end up with a broken tooltable. I think each tool and pocket can only appear once.
[17:31:08] <EmcPT> If that is correct, then this is not suitable for lathe users.
[17:32:26] <andypugh> I don't really understand, to be honest.
[17:32:56] <EmcPT> my question (my point of view), or how it is implemented?
[17:33:18] <andypugh> My assumption has been that you choose a tool by tool number, the toolchanger aligns the corresponding pocket, and then it applies the offset associated with the tool.
[17:33:50] <andypugh> But I might have that all back to front.
[17:36:32] <EmcPT> Imagine that you have a 2 position turret (it can only take two pockets). Now imagine that on pocket 1 you can have offset number 4 and number 5 at the same time (two cutting faces).
[17:37:08] <EmcPT> I do not see how can I do this, as there can only be one pocket for each tool number
[17:37:55] <EmcPT> on a standard lathe I would call T0104
[17:37:59] <EmcPT> and T0105
[17:38:34] <EmcPT> in linuxcnc I could call T1G43H4
[17:38:41] <EmcPT> and T1G43H5
[17:38:52] <EmcPT> BUT they cannot have both the pocket 1
[17:39:06] <EmcPT> (if they can't)
[17:39:39] <andypugh> I am not clear if the offset is associated with a T or an H.
[17:39:59] <EmcPT> but you are a lathe user, aren't you?
[17:40:00] <andypugh> In fact, I don't think what I just said makes sense.
[17:40:21] <EmcPT> or a single tool user?
[17:40:25] <andypugh> Yes, I use a lathe, but I have no pockets, so it's trivial.
[17:40:39] <mrsun> hehe dropped the base of the mill on the cnc computer today ...
[17:40:43] <mrsun> good job mrsun ...
[17:41:08] <andypugh> I have lots of tools, with their own offsets, but the pocket part is irrelevant.
[17:41:12] <mrsun> i guess only part that could get broken is the hd and they are so cheap its not a biggie :P
[17:41:51] <EmcPT> where is the tooltable file so that I can test, or its name so that I can find it?
[17:42:35] <andypugh> tool.tbl in the ~/emc2/configs/ folder
[17:43:51] <EmcPT> check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLhbNmXOUvU to see some tooling working. We build all the machine.
[17:45:50] <EmcPT> And I was thinking on getting linuxcnc a chance...
[17:46:37] <andypugh> I know that people do do this, I just don't know how.
[17:47:12] <andypugh> It does seem possible that the offset numbers come from the "slot" not the tool.
[17:47:34] <andypugh> (I have been reading the G43 docs, and toolchanger description).
[17:48:49] <andypugh> If you have RANDOM_TOOLCHANGER then the tool table is used to find where the tool is in the carousel. But it seems that without that then only the tool-prepared pin is active, so a toolchanger has to work on tool number not pocket number.
[17:56:50] <andypugh> EmcPT: I think I have managed to do what you want to do, by using "dummy" tools with a pocket of zero.
[17:57:51] <EmcPT> please inform
[17:57:53] <andypugh> The H number of G43 chooses offset by the "Tool" column, not the "Pocket" column.
[17:58:09] <andypugh> But the toolchanger gets it's number from T
[17:59:08] <andypugh> So, you can't M6 T100 with a 40-tool carousel but you can M6 T1 G43 H100
[17:59:43] <EmcPT> But H100 will be for pocket for example 30
[17:59:59] <EmcPT> and if you want H99 for the same pocket you can't
[18:00:06] * JT-Shop had a nice road trip today
[18:00:06] <andypugh> As far as I can see the pocket is not used at all with a lathe.
[18:00:46] <EmcPT> ah. And the tool position is what? the number after the T?
[18:00:47] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Quick,explain how you use gang-tooling..
[18:00:55] <andypugh> EmcPT: Yes.
[18:01:14] <JT-Shop> I don't use it but danimal does on his lathe
[18:01:36] <JT-Shop> I don't see him on atm
[18:01:40] <andypugh> So, carousel 10 with offset 100 would be M6 T10 G43 H100
[18:02:09] <EmcPT> let me do some testing
[18:02:09] <JT-Shop> what are you guys doing?
[18:02:30] <andypugh> The pocket number is only used by swap-out toolchangers to track where a particular tool currently lives.
[18:02:45] <JT-Shop> yep random tool changers
[18:03:27] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Using more than one offset for a specific physical tool and toolchanger slot. For example the two sides of a parting blade.
[18:04:17] <JT-Shop> is it a random tool changer?
[18:04:35] <andypugh> No, that was the confusion.
[18:06:10] <JT-Shop> so if you want to use a different tool offset then G43 H- and no physical tool change is involved
[18:06:46] <andypugh> EmcPT: This is definitely EMC2/LinuxCNC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6I1oAPG0Ss
[18:07:10] <JT-Shop> what seems to be the issue?
[18:07:31] <andypugh> EmcPT: Be aware that the status box at the bottom shows the offset from T not from H
[18:07:50] <ds3> whoa...when did this become #linuxcnc?
[18:07:52] <andypugh> He wanted to set up different tools in the same pocket.
[18:08:23] <andypugh> Which seems the logical way to do it. But isn't the right way.
[18:09:04] <JT-Shop> but he doesn't have pockets?
[18:09:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: That video is whats his name down in San Diego that make the bicycle parts
[18:09:29] <andypugh> Yes Jymmm, I know, which is how I know it is EMC2
[18:09:40] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Define "pockets"
[18:09:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: You mean LinuxCNC =)
[18:10:17] <JT-Shop> like Sams K&T with 100 pockets and a random tool location
[18:10:29] <andypugh> I think the problem is thinking that M6 TN has anything at all to do with the tool table.
[18:10:32] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: BIG ASS toolchanger =)
[18:10:36] <JT-Shop> that is Dan
[18:10:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah!
[18:10:52] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: BIG ASS MACHINE
[18:11:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: that too =)
[18:12:59] <JT-Shop> I think some overcomplication is going on as Dan only does simple
[18:13:08] <JT-Shop> and he uses gang tooling
[18:15:50] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: do you think my neighbors will have the same appreciation as I do for my ill gotten booty I brought home today http://imagebin.org/194692
[18:16:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yes, yes they will! Especially at 5am EVERY morning! How much?
[18:16:59] <andypugh> Excellent!
[18:17:20] <andypugh> I suggest standing a long way back for the proof-firing
[18:17:29] <JT-Shop> 1/2 scale fully functional 6 pound cannon
[18:17:42] <JT-Shop> it has been proofed all ready
[18:18:00] <Jymmm> how much?
[18:18:10] <EmcPT> the toolchange real do not work as I expected. Must be me as others do it. Mr Dan is the one I should talk to then? He is normally here?
[18:18:13] <JT-Shop> $600
[18:18:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Did it come with balls?
[18:18:45] <andypugh> 1/2 scale 6lb = 0.75lb?
[18:18:54] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: what did you do and what did you expect and what did you get and he is here from time to time
[18:19:09] <JT-Shop> 1 3/4" diameter
[18:19:17] <JT-Shop> 3 lb
[18:19:17] <andypugh> EmcPT: I have decided that it is really quite simple, really.
[18:19:22] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuRea6615s
[18:19:37] <JT-Shop> hi Sam
[18:19:44] <skunkworks> hi
[18:19:57] <Jymmm> Hi Son of Sam!
[18:20:02] <JT-Shop> LOL
[18:20:21] <andypugh> EmcPT: The T word has _nothing_ to do with the tool table, that just tells the toolchanger which slot in the carousel to move to.
[18:20:23] <skunkworks> actually that statement is correct...
[18:20:57] <andypugh> EmcPT: Then the H-word says which line of the tool table to get the offset from.
[18:21:03] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I kinda figured as much for some reason.
[18:21:13] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:21:49] <EmcPT> So typing M6T1G43H1 should be equal to M6T13G43H1. But it is not
[18:22:01] <JT-Shop> for your amusement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4-lUNa0CpY
[18:22:28] <JT-Shop> why are you putting M6 T1 on the line?
[18:22:45] <JT-Shop> if the tool is loaded then you just need G43 H-
[18:23:08] <andypugh> EmcPT: No, M6 T1 will move to carousel position 1, and M6 T13 to carousel position 13.
[18:23:36] <JT-Shop> what Andy said
[18:24:13] <JT-Shop> M6 T1 G43 (load the offset for T1)
[18:24:21] <andypugh> (Assuming that you don't have RANDOM_TOOLCHANGER selected, and that your toolchanger logic hooks in to iocontrol.tool-prep-number
[18:24:35] <JT-Shop> G43 H13 (load the offset for tool 1 stored in position 13)
[18:25:20] <Tom_itx> wouldn't you typically use a multiple of say 10 to avoid confusion?
[18:25:44] <Tom_itx> ie T1 M6 H1 then G43 H11 or G43 H21
[18:25:52] <JT-Shop> depends on the size of your tool turret
[18:26:03] <EmcPT> 12 positions
[18:26:14] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You kind-off add to the confusion there by saying "the offset for T1". You mean "The offset for tool table entry index 1"
[18:26:15] <Tom_itx> how many H words are you allowed?
[18:26:21] <JT-Shop> 9999
[18:26:21] <Tom_itx> it could be a 100 offset
[18:26:52] <Tom_itx> then you wouldn't loose track of what offset went with what tool
[18:27:02] <JT-Shop> oh I left oof a couple of 99999's
[18:27:10] <andypugh> Yeah, H1, H101, H202, H301 etc.
[18:27:18] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:27:21] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html#_tool_table
[18:29:20] <andypugh> JT-Shop: That doc page needs to be clear the "Pocket Number" only has any meaning at all for RAMDOM_TOOLCHANGER and is otherwise meaningless.
[18:29:41] <JT-Shop> Andy thanks, I'll fix that
[18:29:53] <andypugh> Well, check that it is true first :-)
[18:30:08] <JT-Shop> IIRC that is true
[18:30:52] <EmcPT> I appreciate all the help, but I remain quite confused. Please follow the most simple example: I have a tool that is located on slot number 1. This tool have offset 2. At the same time I need another offset for the same slot, lets say that is offset 4.
[18:30:58] <Tom_itx> what does RANDOM_TOOLCHANGER do?
[18:31:24] <JT-Shop> the tool change swaps tools in the same pocket
[18:31:31] <EmcPT> And currently I am machining with a tool on slot 3.
[18:31:34] <andypugh> It keeps a mapping between tool numbers and where they were last put
[18:31:43] <JT-Shop> so if you take tool 3 out and put tool 9 back in
[18:31:49] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[18:32:13] <Tom_itx> is that to save time indexing the turret?
[18:32:14] <EmcPT> To change to slot number 1 I do not need the M6?
[18:32:15] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: what kind of machine is it?
[18:32:19] <andypugh> EmcPT: In that case, you would load that tool with T1 M6
[18:32:41] <andypugh> Your tool table would have entries for T2 and T4
[18:32:44] <DaViruz> Tom_itx: yeah, the turret can rotate to the correct tool in advance
[18:33:05] <EmcPT> The machine in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLhbNmXOUvU
[18:33:11] <DaViruz> to the new tool. otherwise you need to put the current tool back before you can rotate the turret to the new
[18:33:37] <Tom_itx> yeah that takes some time when you have 99 or 119 etc tool belt
[18:33:41] <andypugh> EmcPT: Yes, if you already have slot 1 posiitoned, then you do not need M6. But if you do issue it, and it is already there, no harm is done
[18:34:07] <andypugh> Then, to apply offset 2 from the tool table, you need G43 H2.
[18:34:18] <andypugh> To apply offset 4, you use G43 H4
[18:34:40] <andypugh> There is no need for the tool table to contain a tool 1 or 3 in this case.
[18:34:49] <EmcPT> but calling M6T1 (only) is loading the data in the tooltable where tool 1 is
[18:35:04] <andypugh> Arguably the column header in the tool table should be "H" not "T"
[18:35:06] <JT-Shop> it does not load any data
[18:35:15] <JT-Shop> it only loads the tool
[18:35:26] <andypugh> Only G43 loads data, M6 loads a tool.
[18:35:31] <JT-Shop> :)
[18:36:17] <JT-Shop> T1 M6 G43 H10 loads tool 1 with the offset from 10
[18:36:33] <EmcPT> here it does not.
[18:36:40] <EmcPT> Someting in the config?
[18:36:54] <andypugh> EmcPT: Could be
[18:37:03] <JT-Shop> possible, what version of LinuxCNC are you using
[18:37:15] <EmcPT> 2.6.0~pre
[18:37:22] <EmcPT> same on the stable one
[18:37:41] <andypugh> Can you pastebin the HAL file (www.pastebin.com)
[18:37:44] <EmcPT> i think
[18:38:16] <andypugh> I have a feeling that your toolchanger might be getting the wrong flags
[18:38:40] <JT-Shop> so what goes wrong with T1 M6 G43 H10
[18:38:46] <EmcPT> I am using the standard config, as I am not running anything. I am using the standard sherline config.
[18:39:29] <EmcPT> so what goes wrong with T1 M6 G43 H10 (it loads the entry of tooltable where tool=1)
[18:39:39] <EmcPT> so what goes wrong with T1 M6 G43 H4 (it loads the entry of tooltable where tool=1)
[18:39:45] <EmcPT> so what goes wrong with T1 M6 G43 H14 (it loads the entry of tooltable where tool=1)
[18:40:01] <EmcPT> always what is on T1
[18:40:26] <andypugh> EmcPT: How are you determining the offset? The status box at the bottom of the screen is wrong.
[18:40:51] <rob_h> cant mix gcodes on tool change line bad things happen i think u will find
[18:41:13] <andypugh> If you look on the screen at the tool-tip position, you will see it move every time you G43 H<something>
[18:41:27] <JT-Shop> hi Rob
[18:41:31] <andypugh> rob_h: I use them all on the same line all the time, it depends on the toolchanger
[18:41:34] <rob_h> hi
[18:42:19] <EmcPT> !!!! "The status box at the bottom of the screen is wrong."
[18:42:56] <andypugh> Yes, I just noticed. It shows the selected tool, but makes an assumption about the offset applied.
[18:43:02] <rob_h> it alwasy will b with EMC and gang tooling.. unless config ur toolchanger/plc and tool pockets to relate to x number tools on a pocket/station
[18:43:45] <andypugh> I think it is probably an easy fix, to be honest.
[18:44:47] <andypugh> I could pretend it was a consequence of using the development version, but I suspect that it is the same in 2.4.7
[18:44:54] <rob_h> i guess could make it so tbl has,, t1 p1 t2 p1 . then make pocket locations ur turret postions
[18:45:31] <EmcPT> pocket needs to be unique
[18:45:35] <andypugh> rob_h: Not particularly easily.
[18:46:14] <EmcPT> but yes it appears it is working the toolchange. All this time I was looking on the offsets on the status
[18:46:26] <EmcPT> thank you all
[18:47:40] <andypugh> Now, who put that status box there? I recall it happening, I was on IRC at the time. Was it JT-Shop ?
[18:48:28] <JT-Shop> not me...
[18:48:49] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: is there some feature of 2.6 that you need to use?
[18:49:50] * JT-Shop listens to the Stray Cats :)
[18:50:26] <Tom_itx> where do you get 2.6 from?
[18:50:39] <andypugh> buildbot?
[18:50:40] <JT-Shop> git or buildbot
[18:50:47] <EmcPT> not sure. Probably not. I would like to do something like implementing a G71 and share, but I am to green on all
[18:50:50] <Tom_itx> is it on the buildbot now?
[18:50:52] <EmcPT> from git
[18:51:00] <JT-Shop> just depends on if you want RIP or installed
[18:51:21] <andypugh> G71 would be lathe roughing? It's on my list but feel free to do it so I can take it off :-)
[18:52:09] <JT-Shop> oh yes, please do that
[18:52:23] <Tom_itx> i don't see it on the buildbot
[18:52:27] <rob_h> i think many people would be happy :)
[18:52:31] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: do you do one off stuff or mass production?
[18:52:56] <EmcPT> Honestly I would like to try. But it is quite hard to even figure out the toolchange, so you can see my current "status"
[18:53:11] <EmcPT> I probably can't make the machine move ...
[18:53:30] <EmcPT> We do between 5 and 10 per year
[18:53:49] <andypugh> 5 and 10 machines, or 5 and 10 parts?
[18:53:55] <EmcPT> machines
[18:54:08] <JT-Shop> I use ngcgui for my lathe for 95% of my work, a real time saver
[18:54:33] <JT-Shop> ok, so you have well tuned g codes...
[18:55:15] <EmcPT> We made software that outputs fanuc compatible gcode
[18:55:27] <rob_h> like a CAM program
[18:55:43] <EmcPT> and I was hoping that linuxcnc read it easly
[18:55:54] <EmcPT> yes, similar to a cam
[18:56:02] <rob_h> i made a post for CAMWORKS for solidworks.. it out puts full EMC code and also does sub calls for EMC .. one day i will finish the lathe one
[18:56:04] <EmcPT> but with predefined shapes and tools
[18:56:20] <rob_h> mean like a conversation wizard on new controls
[18:56:22] <andypugh> I just looked at the video, and I am wondering what the trick is, whenever I machine plastic I get balls of melted stuff tangled everywhere
[18:56:39] <JT-Shop> sharp tools
[18:56:44] <EmcPT> chip cutter + vacuum + tools
[18:57:07] <rob_h> not too fast on the rpm
[18:57:07] <EmcPT> it is not plastic. it is more like rubber = more difficult
[18:57:10] <andypugh> Ah, that silvery cyinder is a chip cutter?
[18:57:18] <EmcPT> yes
[18:57:34] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isTD6bDF_LI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
[18:57:45] <EmcPT> rpm is at max 2500rpm so that the rod does not jump away
[18:58:24] <rob_h> what was secret to such a clean CHNC john mine still looks messy lo
[18:58:39] <JT-Shop> lots of elbow grease for sure
[18:59:01] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes, I end up pulling the swarf off by hand too, that was rather my point.
[18:59:06] <JT-Shop> and the machine dealer power washed it before the sale I assume
[18:59:38] <JT-Shop> for UHMW I will use my had for the swarf but not metal
[19:00:33] <JT-Shop> do you like my bar puller
[19:01:31] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRUJk0ptN4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
[19:02:14] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M15RA1ft3Bc
[19:02:44] <andypugh> The bar puller is good, the part-catcher needs work.
[19:03:07] <JT-Shop> but I'm done with that job now...
[19:03:11] <rob_h> b watchin youtube alll night now, once watch one videio thats it
[19:03:19] <rob_h> video
[19:03:22] <JT-Shop> LOL
[19:03:54] * JT-Shop better get back to drawing cheek parts for the cannon
[19:04:02] <rob_h> maybe i can some new ones soon :)
[19:04:19] <Tom_itx> sharp cutters?
[19:04:23] <JT-Shop> yea, with the CHNC you just converted
[19:04:31] <Tom_itx> woops scrollback messed me up
[19:04:35] <EmcPT> Just look at a oring being done:
[19:04:37] <EmcPT> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddno7YzyS6o
[19:04:37] <rob_h> one more step closer tonight
[19:05:34] <JT-Shop> I think I use those same inserts
[19:07:08] <andypugh> EmcPT: I am impressed, I wouldn't have thought that was possible (except perhaps by freezing the rubber)
[19:07:12] <JT-Shop> so the inside and outside ops are the same tool/different offset issue
[19:07:34] <JT-Shop> with the T shaped too
[19:07:36] <JT-Shop> l
[19:08:13] <EmcPT> that was what I was talking. I have tooling with 4 offsets at a time.
[19:08:29] <EmcPT> We can machine rubber quite easy
[19:08:55] <EmcPT> polyurethane is more difficult (the red one)
[19:09:18] <EmcPT> maybe I can turn this into linuxemc
[19:09:25] <andypugh> EMC2 will do tool-radius compensation too, if you need that.
[19:09:25] <EmcPT> linuxcnc
[19:09:41] <JT-Shop> lol
[19:09:53] <andypugh> I mean linuxcnc too, goshdarnit!
[19:10:07] <rob_h> to the sinbin
[19:10:44] <EmcPT> For a lathe it must have tool radius compensation. Period.
[19:11:09] <EmcPT> and the cycles G71, G72 and G73. Fanuc systeam A code.
[19:11:45] <EmcPT> AND no bugs ....
[19:12:16] <andypugh> Well, you can largely get by without the roughing cycles with G-code loops.
[19:12:43] <andypugh> I think you will find that lying about the offset in the status box is a feature, not a bug :-)
[19:13:26] <andypugh> Actually, it is odd that nobody has noticed before. Or if they have, they haven't mentioned it.
[19:13:48] <andypugh> I guess with a real machine there, you see that it is working and move on.
[19:14:12] <EmcPT> Honestly, until now, the most simple thing, I have troubles or find issues.
[19:14:34] <EmcPT> A few days ago, you also helped was with the current Gcode window.
[19:15:05] <EmcPT> I have submited a bug report to the bug traker system.
[19:15:16] <andypugh> I guess if you are used to a Fanuc lathe, then EMC2 is rather different.
[19:16:00] <rob_h> didt find it tooo different here.. every one is use to it now.. as emc is quite fanuc code friendly does not take alot ot make a program from on it, lathe or mill
[19:16:27] <rob_h> abit like when u go use a simends or mazatrol its differnet again but u soon get use to it
[19:16:47] <EmcPT> different but functional is one thing, but different and bugy ...
[19:17:23] <JT-Shop> so I'm back to the question "why are you using 2.6"?
[19:18:04] <andypugh> I find it functional, with niggles which don't interfere with it working.
[19:18:25] <EmcPT> for no especial reason. As I found issues, I took a peek to see if they where solved.
[19:18:49] <andypugh> (well, except that right now _nothing_ is working, which I think is related to the emc2 to linuxcnc conversion.
[19:19:44] <JT-Shop> I use 2.5 for about a year now but would not use the bleeding edge one if I "needed" something there
[19:20:37] <EmcPT> I am not running a machine. Just have the mesa hardware and trying to fell the code and the simulation, the toolchange and to understand if the labor that is needed to put all working.
[19:21:25] <EmcPT> But I really want to run a machine...
[19:23:13] <Jymmm> floor polisher is a machine
[19:23:15] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[19:23:20] <Jymmm> CODE WORD
[19:23:38] <JT-Shop> ZZZZZZZZ nap time
[19:23:49] <Jymmm> G'Night JT
[19:24:06] <JT-Shop> goodnight JYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYym
[19:24:36] <andypugh> EmcPT: Which Mesa hardware do you have?
[19:25:26] <EmcPT> 5i20 + analog servos (do not recall the model) + io
[19:26:11] <andypugh> servo-specific daughtercard?
[19:27:56] <EmcPT> 7i33TA
[19:27:57] <andypugh> There is a hm2-servo 5i20 demo config which should get you close. It's for a 3-axis machine, but converting to a lathe should be easier than starting from scratch.
[19:29:07] <andypugh> But, actually, pncconf is probably the place to start
[19:29:18] <andypugh> ( I always forget about that)
[19:30:18] <EmcPT> Yes. I looked into it. But as I do not have so much time on the workshop I started at home (like today) only using and testing the code and the axis. If this would turn bad, then it would stop here.
[19:30:44] <EmcPT> I already configurated with pncconfig and it was ok.
[19:30:54] <andypugh> Are you the chap asking about emc2 lathes in Europe, on CNCzone?
[19:31:00] <EmcPT> yes
[19:32:09] <EmcPT> You can learn 10x faster if you meet a person
[19:32:20] <EmcPT> or see really examples
[19:32:24] <EmcPT> real
[19:32:28] <andypugh> There is someone trying to make a living from EMC2 conversions in Latvia
[19:32:49] <rob_h> was same in germany too andypugh
[19:33:41] <andypugh> You would be welcome to look at mine, but it's in the UK, it's stepper, it has no toolchanger, so all in all it's not a great example.
[19:34:15] <rob_h> then head up north from andy to our shop ;)
[19:35:16] <andypugh> Also, I am heading a long way north myself in a week, then when I get back from there, about 40,000 miles in a westerly direction.
[19:35:46] <andypugh> (40,000km I mean)
[19:35:50] <Tom_itx> headin on a boat trip?
[19:36:08] <andypugh> The boat is only 5600 miles.
[19:36:41] <andypugh> But with the flights at each end, I will have done a full lap.
[19:37:06] <Tom_itx> take lotsa pics
[19:37:11] <EmcPT> Take the laptop and be sure you have internet. You are quite helpfull here.
[19:37:56] <andypugh> Of what? Pictures of clouds from the plane, and pictures of sea from the boat? There will be bizarrely little to see.
[19:38:07] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:38:14] <EmcPT> Need to sleep. Tomorrow is working day.
[19:38:21] <andypugh> And no internets in the middle of the Pacific
[19:38:33] <Tom_itx> possible sea life?
[19:38:39] <EmcPT> Satellite?
[19:38:49] <Tom_itx> send EmcPT the bill for that
[19:38:57] <andypugh> There is a connection, but something like $8 per 100kB
[19:39:24] <EmcPT> At the end a Fanuc will be less expensive
[19:40:04] <andypugh> EmcPT: For the first one, possibly. But the next ones, will be a lot cheaper.
[19:40:40] <andypugh> How much is a Fanuc controller?
[19:42:00] <EmcPT> with motors cables everthing for one machine (single aquisition) +-17000€ 0i-td mate (base model)
[19:42:10] <EmcPT> and with support
[19:42:31] <EmcPT> it can be down a lot depending on the number you buy
[19:43:24] <andypugh> Yeah, EMC2 support is free, but you get what you pay for, and can't insist if nobody wants to help.
[19:44:40] <andypugh> Still, though €3000 + some time invested gets you a nice working EMC2 installation, and the time is a one-off investment.
[19:45:27] <Tom_itx> time would be invested on any install
[19:45:37] <Tom_itx> so that could be considered a wash
[19:46:21] <jdhNC> I've spent a lot of time waiting for GE/Fanuc callbacks
[19:46:53] <EmcPT> lets see... I started it, don't know if will end it. Must do a lot. Including a nice graphic display.
[19:47:36] <jdhNC> can I install a sim only version off the live cd?
[19:48:27] <andypugh> EmcPT: Yes, if you are selling a "branded" system, I can see there are overheads there. Do Fanuc provide that as part of the service?
[19:55:24] <andypugh> I hate to see anyone giving up, especially as they are quite cool machines, but perhaps EMC2 isn't right for them.
[20:10:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: for what?
[20:11:46] <andypugh> EmcPT, the seal-making lathe
[20:11:57] <Jymmm> ah
[20:13:46] <andypugh> Darn! I forgot to make the radiusing tool tonight. Looks like an earlier morning than anticipated.
[20:13:50] <andypugh> Night all
[20:14:58] <Jymmm> $440 for a propane tank electric blanket?! yeow!!!
[20:15:10] <Jymmm> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200396875_200396875
[20:21:04] <Tom_itx> you should get a couple
[20:22:16] <sirHOAX> heh.
[20:22:18] <Tom_itx> might be kinda hard to use out in the backwoods at the still though
[20:22:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Especially when yoou're using the propane for a heater in the first place!
[20:23:58] <sirHOAX> just burn the propane to heat the tank.
[20:24:03] <sirHOAX> :-)
[20:24:08] <Jymmm> exactly
[20:24:16] <sirHOAX> lol.
[20:24:16] <Tom_itx> too dangerous
[20:24:49] <Jymmm> I have to order this hose for my heater http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200362084_200362084
[20:25:08] <sirHOAX> log splitter. ;-q
[20:25:12] <Jymmm> These ilb propane cans kinda go quick and get expensive
[20:25:24] <sirHOAX> have fireplaces but they were gas, would have to chop them out and convert them.
[20:25:36] <sirHOAX> put the wood insert
[20:25:58] <Jymmm> I have one of these http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200395499_200395499
[20:26:07] <Jymmm> good price for it too
[20:26:15] <Tom_itx> i think i have a couple of those
[20:26:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the Mr Heater?
[20:26:35] <Tom_itx> hoses
[20:26:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: plasticizer free?
[20:26:54] <Tom_itx> huh?
[20:27:20] <Jymmm> Yeah,it's a special hose that is plactizizer free so no filter is required
[20:27:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: click on accessories
[20:28:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you have to use that filter iif you dont use that specific hose http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTEProdinfo?productId=200310651&storeId=6970&catalogId=4006970&langId=-1&cm_sp=Upsells-_-Accessories-_-Product%20Page
[20:28:20] <Tom_itx> who says?
[20:28:30] <Jymmm> the mfg
[20:28:41] <Tom_itx> use a different mfg
[20:28:42] <Jymmm> the other hose leeech goo out
[20:30:01] <cstop> Goo must burn really hot!
[20:32:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: this hose is intended to be used WITHOUT a regulator.
[21:57:43] <cstop> can anyone advise if it is practical to combine servo and stepper systems under EMC2? I have some misc. Parker S-6 Steppers, an Emerson FX-316 and an AMC servo setup. all accept step and direction. Just wondering if a Hybrid multi axis machine tool has some "gotchas".