#linuxcnc-devel Logs

Nov 08 2019

#linuxcnc-devel Calendar

05:13 PM andypugh: mozmck: : mozmck: I am contemplating dedicating this weekend to making practice ISO files, Buster RTAI and RTPreempt 2.8. Does that seem like a good idea?
05:25 PM mozmck: That sounds good to me!
05:26 PM mozmck: I'm not going to be much help right now because I'm behind on too many projects.
05:29 PM andypugh: I can try to help you get some other mug drunk and volunteer to be release manager?
05:35 PM mozmck: If you want to take over being release manager I'd be quite happy! I offered it a time or two before but no-one bit.
05:36 PM andypugh: I would, except I am not sure that I am pedantic enough.
05:36 PM andypugh: And I am not a “real programmer”
05:36 PM mozmck: Ah, I see :-) I can be picky, but I still miss things at times.
05:38 PM mozmck: As I guess everyone does. I still need to put in my alternate run-from-line that simply starts at the given line. I've been using it in 2.7 for several years, but have not yet tested in 2.8
05:38 PM andypugh: Maybe I can make some test release ISO’s and more careful folk can test them?
05:39 PM andypugh: run-from-line is a tricky subject.
05:39 PM mozmck: I never did dig into the debian ISO process enough to figure it out.
05:39 PM andypugh: “just rin G-code from where I click” is certainly one option, and reliable, and easy to document.
05:40 PM andypugh: But many users seem to want the system to be as it would be had you run from the beginning, with all the right tools, state, and offsets.
05:41 PM andypugh: And then those same users get upset when the system asks for 14 tool changes. (and that’s vaguely reasonable too)
05:42 PM andypugh: And my own opinion at the moment is “push out 2.8 with all the existing 2.7 bugs, but no new 2.8 bugs”
05:42 PM andypugh: Because Wheezy is dead, and even Stretch is old.
05:43 PM mozmck: That could be. The simple run-from-line I use has to be enabled with an INI option so it does nothing unless you do it on purpose.
05:43 PM andypugh: So distrubuting a LiveCD that isn’t even supported looks really bad.
05:43 PM mozmck: yes
05:44 PM mozmck: And I don't even use any of them :-) I've been using xubuntu 14.04 and now starting to distribute one based on xubuntu 18.04
05:46 PM andypugh: It would be “iffy” to launch a Buster LiveCD without a single Buster buildbot.
05:47 PM andypugh: But if I can make a pair of ISOs (my ambition is three, but making Pi debs is harder)
05:47 PM Tom_L: stretch is still in a 'testing' folder
05:48 PM andypugh: Though the only Buster/LinuxCNC instance I have is on a Pi.
05:48 PM Tom_L: jt built it on buster
05:48 PM Tom_L: i was trying
05:48 PM andypugh: At the moment I am just trying to get a feel for the magnitude of the task.
05:48 PM Tom_L: had some other issues unrelated and never finished
05:49 PM Tom_L: buster is still in 'dependency hell'
05:50 PM andypugh: mozmck: Are you actually distributing .ISO files?
05:51 PM andypugh: And if so, are you removing all Ubuntu copyright material from those?
05:51 PM andypugh: (Becase, if you are, or don’t need to, can’t we just release, already?
05:56 PM mozmck: andypugh: No, we've been shipping computers with xubuntu installed but already modified with a preempt-rt kernel and a few other changes.
05:56 PM andypugh: Is Xububtu more redistributale than Ubuntu?
05:56 PM mozmck: With the 18.04 based distro I do plan on making ISO files, but haven't yet. I did strip the Ubuntu stuff out on this one.
05:57 PM andypugh: Or do you bypass the issues by shipping it pre-intstelled on hardware?
05:57 PM mozmck: I don't know if it is more or not - I think about the same.
05:58 PM mozmck: I *think* we are ok by shipping it pre-installed. For anyone who needs to re-install, they install xubuntu, then run my installer which does all other needed changes.
05:58 PM andypugh: Or have you decided that this is not an issue, really? https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/9-installing-linuxcnc/30074-why-was-debian-chosen-over-ubuntu/67026#67172
06:01 PM mozmck: No, that's an issue, but I don't think we are distributing a modified ubuntu? For anyone installing they install a standard xubuntu, then run my installer.
06:02 PM mozmck: In any case, just to be sure and because I do want to be able to ship a single ISO I removed all the Ubuntu/Xubuntu branding from the 18.04 based version. It's not too hard.
06:08 PM andypugh: It seems to be more than removing branding, it is removing anythign that Canonical assert copyright over.
06:09 PM andypugh: And (as of that post from Jepler) they don’t supply a list.
06:10 PM mozmck: From my reading the requirements are not as bad as jepler thought in that post. Here is the Xubuntu page on the subject: https://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/
06:11 PM mozmck: I made a couple of packages to replace some of the ones I had to remove in 18.04 which set up defaults and had some branding.
06:13 PM andypugh: Yes, that does seem les restricive
06:13 PM andypugh: But, then, now we are using Debian already..
06:13 PM mozmck: There is another link I'm trying to find now that spelled some things out more as well. Such as not needing to change lsb-release and /etc/issue and all.
06:13 PM andypugh: We should ask the “emc board of directors” to make a decision.
06:14 PM mozmck: Yes, and that has much less restrictions! The reason I didn't go with that is that wheezy had too many paper cuts and old software etc.
06:14 PM mozmck: There are a lot of folks using Mint, and we actually have permission from Mint to make a respin: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&p=1489079&t=272185#p1489079
06:15 PM andypugh: Do you see any reason not to start with Buster, and then choose to move away if we find issues?
06:15 PM andypugh: (It does have a lovely default desktop photo)
06:15 PM mozmck: No, that makes sense to me.
06:16 PM mozmck: Mint really puts effort into all the little details which make it pretty nice. I've used it for years now on my main computer.
06:16 PM mozmck: I just installed Kubuntu on my laptop recently - and it is really nice overall as well.
06:17 PM andypugh: If we have debs then it’s easier to choose OS
06:18 PM mozmck: But Buster makes sense for now I would think - already has some momentum behind it.
06:18 PM mozmck: yes
06:19 PM mozmck: well, time for supper here, later.
06:19 PM andypugh: Maybe you could call one of the IRC meetings to decide what to launch the ISO on? (This would partly be to inject some impetus)
06:19 PM andypugh: I am rather aware that about this time last year I was pushing for 2.8 to be relased by new-year.
06:20 PM mozmck: Yeah - so whichever is quickest to do and most stable would make the most sense.
06:20 PM andypugh: And I am not holding you responsible for this, it is just that the work did not get done.
06:22 PM andypugh: I am thinking that 2.8 ASAP, then 2.1 with Python3. PyGTK=>GObject (Glade ?) sorted out next.
06:23 PM mozmck: Yep - but I am one of the ones that didn't do it for sure! I'll help out any way I can with this. I'll be gone the next couple of days, but may have internet tomorrow off and on.
06:23 PM mozmck: Or QT? Looks like some good work has been done there.
06:24 PM andypugh: We are in a posiiton that LinuxCNC is in good shape, but the underlying OS / libraries are becoming a problem (RTAI has been saved just-in-time by memleak/neo whatever he is called this week)
06:25 PM andypugh: Yes, QTPyVCP and friends for 2.8.1 definitely. Or maybe as “beta preview” in 2.8? It’s not likely to break anything..
06:26 PM mozmck: QTvcp is already in 2.8, but I'm not sure who if anyone is using it?
06:27 PM andypugh: There is quite lot out there: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis
06:28 PM mozmck: QTPyVCP looks great as well and has some features that are quite nice - after this release for sure though. It has a problem of requiring rather new QT libs which are not in our older OSs
06:28 PM andypugh: Half that first content page?
06:29 PM mozmck: Looks like both QTVCP and QTPyVCP - a little confusing having two of them.
06:30 PM hazzy-m: mozmck: very confusing, and I'm afraid I'm to blame for the fragmentation
06:30 PM mozmck: Hi hazzy-m!
06:31 PM hazzy-m: Hey mozmck!
06:31 PM mozmck: It would be great if they could be merged at some point - but I don't know if that is possible or not.
06:34 PM hazzy-m: It should be possible, there are a lot of good things in each
06:36 PM hazzy-m: really glad to see the discussion you all are having