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[13:56:29] <JT-Shop> will any of the master deb's from the buildbot work on LinuxMint 17.3?
[13:57:06] <JT-Shop> which is based on Ubuntu Trusty
[13:57:56] <cradek> I don't think we know without trying
[14:02:08] <jepler> JT-Shop: we don't build or test debs on that OS distribution.
[14:03:42] <JT-Shop> ok thanks
[14:04:15] <JT-Shop> the ubuntu issue follows through to LinuxMint I assume
[14:05:09] <jepler> people who care about ubuntu or mint need to step up and fix the problems that are not experienced on the architectures the current developers actually use
[14:08:07] <jepler> what a strange keyboard layout, from a wang 2200
http://home.wxs.nl/~janvdv/wang/wangmuseum2200.htm
[14:08:15] <jepler> http://home.wxs.nl/~janvdv/images/100_6734.JPG
[14:09:09] <JT-Shop> I really don't care what architecture I use just so it is easy to do the simple everyday things you need to do like copy files from desktop PC to the machine via the LAN
[14:10:17] <jepler> I don't intend to impugn your preferences, though I'm likely to accidentally since they're different than mine.
[14:10:57] <cradek> is there a bug report for whatever the ubuntu issue is?
[14:11:32] <cradek> or do you mean that we want to avoid it because of ubuntu's yucky license practices?
[14:13:28] <mozmck> I use xubuntu without any problems fwiw
[14:14:29] <mozmck> well, maybe not without any problems, but linuxcnc works fine on it and on linux mint
[14:15:30] <jepler> cradek: there was the "y axis" bug that was first reported in ubuntu but also affects debian stretch. that one is fixed.
[14:15:46] <jepler> I think skunkworks' strange focus bug was on something that wasn't debian xfce, but I don't remember what
[14:16:12] <cradek> I think it's possible that if the mint people have done all the work to placate ubuntu and make a derivative (if that's knowable, which I think it isn't) we could make a derivative of mint without those same problems
[14:16:25] <cradek> someone interested could try to research along those lines
[14:18:53] <jepler> yeah for me the high points are (A) before official support for a new Ubuntu-adjacent distribution can be shipped in binary form from linuxcnc.org, we have to make sure the ubuntu trademark curse is not going to affect it
[14:19:37] <mozmck> I did that at one point and it looked like they wanted you to remove all references to mint or their logos - I'll have to find that again...
[14:19:52] <jepler> and (B) whoever wants it will have to fix the bugs that show up on that platform if they don't show up on existing platforms
[14:20:21] <cradek> mozmck: yuck.
[14:21:21] <jepler> I would be interested in seeing their position on that issue.
[14:22:20] <jepler> https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=152652
[14:22:21] <mozmck> Is it difficult to make a debian derivative which includes the non-free drivers that debian excludes from their install? I had to go get some drivers for the network card on a server I installed debian on not long ago.
[14:22:40] <jepler> yes their position, as of 2013, is that you have to obtain permission from a specific person to distribute a modified linux mint
[14:23:05] <mozmck> I think that's the thread I found before.
[14:23:25] <mozmck> basically the same position ubuntu has I think.
[14:24:48] <cradek> gross
[14:25:08] <jepler> yeah that's actually pretty funny and helps put that whole pissing match between mint and ubuntu in a slightly different perspective
[14:28:20] <mozmck> at least xubuntu has a little more helpful page on it:
http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/
[14:31:08] <mozmck> So, can you easily add the drivers to a debian derivative which debian does not include? If it's just a matter of installing a few packages that would be great.
[14:33:35] <cradek> mozmck: you can preseed non-free apt repos like this:
http://timeguy.com/gitweb?p=live-images.git;a=commitdiff;h=4bd9ac90d8dd5c04ad6ca5c64a08ed0ffb49fe57
[14:34:05] <mozmck> ah, so those drivers are in non-free?
[14:34:57] <cradek> I think some are - I don't know all the details
[14:35:25] <mozmck> Ok, thanks!
[14:36:56] <mozmck> haha! this article is pretty much why I use Mint for my desktop:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3006979/linux/is-linux-mint-a-terrible-desktop-distribution.html
[14:38:37] <cradek> I actually feel that way about debian+xfce, but it's true I don't try to make it interoperate with windows machines, and that sure might be awful.
[14:39:28] <mozmck> I don't do that any more either - I run a windows machine inside Virtualbox on the rare occasion that I need one :-)
[14:39:35] <JT-Shop> can you drag and drop files with the file manager between linux pc's?
[14:39:46] <mozmck> Sure!
[14:40:00] <JT-Shop> I have to have one windows pc for solidworks and onecnc
[14:40:01] <mozmck> I use both Samba and NFS and it works with either
[14:40:25] * JT-Shop wonders why he never could get file sharing to work on debian
[14:41:12] <mozmck> I did have more trouble getting Samba set up in debian myself, and would up getting the samba config from a working ubuntu machine and that got it working.
[14:42:23] <cradek> I use nfs and scp and sshfs between unixes, but I don't have windows shares to (try to) mount
[14:42:26] <mozmck> But I've had problems with that in ubuntu in the past as well. I think it was 10.04 where what had worked for a long time with previous versions was broken badly, and it was 12.04 I think before it worked again for me.
[14:43:23] <jepler> people at ubuntu, mint, etc, should be more proactive at sending their fixes to "upstream sources"
[14:43:31] <mozmck> I like nfs, but found that if I turn off a computer I had mounted a share on from my desktop, my file manager doesn't like it.
[14:43:52] <cradek> mozmck: might try the "soft" mount option
[14:44:03] <mozmck> hmm, I'll have to look at that.
[14:44:05] <mozmck> thanks
[14:44:09] <JT-Shop> actually looking back I got that to work I think, now I can't remember what made me quit working on debian
[14:44:10] <cradek> mozmck: but yeah, nfs is from the days when machines stayed on
[14:44:36] <mozmck> jepler: do they not do that? I assumed a lot of the difference was just in the setup and package selection.
[14:44:38] <JT-Shop> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23221596/
[14:44:55] <JT-Shop> my notes on my last attempt to set up a debian pc
[14:44:57] <jepler> mozmck: I don't know. why else would the experience configuring samba be different on debian vs ubuntu, except that ubuntu has something that debian doesn't?
[14:45:25] <cradek> JT-Shop: that looks really complete
[14:45:34] <mozmck> jepler: ubuntu had a little configuration program that I couldn't find in the debian repo that was super simple and worked.
[14:46:32] <cradek> > The intention of the Xubuntu team is to keep the Xubuntu trademarks to the packages starting with “xubuntu-“; if you find trademarked assets outside these packages, please be in touch with us and we will work to make them moved to the Xubuntu packages.
[14:46:39] <cradek> that is actually very helpful
[14:46:43] <mozmck> yeah
[14:46:51] <cradek> that's the kind of thing the fsf has been asking ubuntu to do
[14:47:19] <jepler> mozmck: what is the name of this program?
[14:47:38] <mozmck> hmm, I'll have to look - seems like it just says "Samba" in the menu
[14:48:03] <cradek> ps and then dpkg -S might help you find the package
[14:48:35] <mozmck> system-config-samba
[14:50:14] <jepler> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=103852
[14:50:38] <jepler> ok, so they NIH'd their own configuration GUI for samba instead of working with anybody else; but at least the source is available
[14:50:51] <jepler> but be careful, the person who compiled it on their debian system just committed a trademark violation
[14:52:04] <mozmck> hows that? it says it's a redhat tool
[14:52:39] <jepler> er I do see that parenthetical now
[14:53:19] <jepler> I wonder why it's not in Debian, then.
[14:53:23] <mozmck> I don't think it could be a trademark violation unless it was named ubuntu-samba-config or something anyhow.
[14:53:55] <jepler> mozmck: the package is numbered "0ubuntu5"
[14:54:06] <mozmck> I don't know, but it sure is simple compared to gadmin-samba! I can't remember if I ever got gadmin-samba to make a valid config.
[14:54:50] <mozmck> Ah - I see. Probably from the canonical patch. I guess you could remove that from the debian stuff.
[18:11:21] <jepler> short service interruption on the forum...
[18:13:29] <jepler> and we should be back..
[18:19:31] <andypugh> Hmm, apparently “as a human you are not worth the O2 you are sniffing” according to a PM from the forum.
[18:20:28] <JT-Shop> holy crap!
[18:20:47] <andypugh> I would forward him a link to that article jepler posted a link to, about it being a gift / reciever relationship. Except the cause of the diatribe was that that I posted a manual link rather than the answer to the question that he still hadn’t asked.
[18:21:15] <JT-Shop> ah that one
[18:21:26] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You can probably guess which one this is.
[18:21:38] <JT-Shop> no guessing for me!
[18:21:51] <JT-Shop> I just ignore them and they go away...
[18:22:21] <andypugh> I thought about banning him, but then he will probably feel even more righteous indigation. So I a just going to ignore him now.
[18:23:07] <andypugh> I wonder if he think we are paid to do this? In that case “I don’t have the time” _is_ a terrible excuse.
[18:24:01] <JT-Shop> I have no idea what many of them think...
[18:26:00] <JT-Shop> not having any bandsaw blades has really set me back this week :(
[18:27:04] <andypugh> And they are a hard thing to improvise.
[18:27:17] <andypugh> Maybe string an an abrasive slurry.
[18:27:34] <JT-Shop> I'm wondering if I can cut the bad section out and tig weld it back...
[18:27:59] <JT-Shop> ordered some Wednesday and the order is processing!
[18:28:41] <JT-Shop> that guy reminds me of Benny
[18:30:31] <andypugh> A nlot of the older vig bandsaws have a butt-welding attachement built into the machine.
[18:30:42] <andypugh> (lot. big)
[18:31:51] <JT-Shop> I used to work in the nail industry and we used butt welding for the rod
[18:32:24] <andypugh> Not just the old ones it seems, this was a brand-new one with built-in welder
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251753463609
[18:32:25] <JT-Shop> the bad part is I actually have a paying job to do and I need to cut the parts out
[18:32:46] <JT-Shop> usually that is on a vertical bandsaw
[18:33:17] <andypugh> A jigsaw might work
[18:33:21] <andypugh> Though not as well
[18:33:24] <JT-Shop> hmm local hardware store has the same bandsaw I wonder if they have blades
[18:33:54] <andypugh> They have at least one….
[18:34:30] <JT-Shop> I'd bet they have more than one, they sell cut steel at a nice profit
[18:35:14] <JT-Shop> did you see the horz I converted to vert?
[18:35:50] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/7x12-bandsaw/
[18:36:29] <JT-Shop> didn't do well as a horz could not cut straight lol
[18:37:15] <JT-Shop> should be chewing the fat next door and cut the static here lol
[21:06:48] <cradek> andypugh: thanks for helping so many people on the forum. you are irreplaceable and I appreciate you a lot.
[21:07:00] <cradek> JT-Shop: also same to you
[23:35:21] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05master 518a33b 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/install/latency-test.txt 10scripts/latency-histogram latency-histogram: new option (--nox) for no X gui * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=518a33b
