#linuxcnc-devel | Logs for 2015-10-14

[12:58:55] <mozmck> The 7i92 setup I got from PCW uses PID in velocity mode. If I make a metric config, which PID settings would need to be changed? Looks like MAX_ERROR would, but what about FF1, FF2, and P?
[12:59:12] <mozmck> everything else was set to 0
[13:00:00] <mozmck> According to the man page for PID, FF2 should usually be left at 0 for velocity loops, but it was set to .00011
[13:01:52] <ssi> you shouldn't have to change pid if you change to metric
[13:01:55] <ssi> or if you do, maybe scale the units
[13:02:03] <ssi> probably easiest just to retune
[13:02:40] <mozmck> I'm not sure how to tune - it's stepgens.
[13:03:12] <ssi> pid for stepgens?
[13:03:54] <mozmck> yep!
[13:04:21] <mozmck> Don't ask me how that all works though...
[13:05:28] <pcw_home> no tuning changes since the ins and outs of the PID loop are scaled commensurately when you change machine scale
[13:05:49] <mozmck> so even MAX_ERROR?
[13:06:09] <pcw_home> max error would need to change
[13:06:18] <mozmck> ok, thanks.
[13:07:00] <pcw_home> whether its needed anymore with the DPLL is somewhat in doubt...
[13:07:48] <pcw_home> just means if you get a crazy position error, the acceleration is bounded
[13:08:22] <mozmck> Ok. So it won't hurt to leave it in sounds like.
[13:09:04] <pcw_home> no doesnt hurt unless the PCs clock is so far from the 7I92s clock that you lose control
[13:09:46] <pcw_home> and that would mean something was broken
[13:10:01] <mozmck> ok
[13:11:21] <pcw_home> what is means is obey the velocity command (FF1) but allow maxerror*Pgain velocity deviation from commanded for feedback
[13:12:33] <pcw_home> P should be servo thread frequency
[13:12:35] <pcw_home> FF2 should be delay between read and write (in seconds)
[13:13:56] <pcw_home> read/write delay seems to be about 150 usec on my test machines (may be longer with complex hal file)
[13:13:57] <pcw_home> so FF2=.00015 is close
[13:14:18] <mozmck> Oh, I see. My P is correct, I might should tweak FF2
[13:15:50] <mozmck> How do you measure the delay between read and write?
[13:16:09] <mozmck> I guess FF2 should be set to worst case?
[13:16:15] <pcw_home> FF2 is not terribly important unless you are looking for very close following
[13:16:16] <pcw_home> ( it only changes behavior during acceleration )
[13:16:26] <mozmck> Ah, ok.
[13:18:43] <pcw_home> you can sort of see what happens, if you apply velocity changes late
[13:18:45] <pcw_home> (and you always do since you read, do a bunch of things, and then write)
[13:18:46] <pcw_home> you will always be a bit behind during acceleration and a bit ahead during deccel
[13:21:03] <pcw_home> FF2s compensation is not perfect because its derived from velocity
[13:21:05] <pcw_home> differences in the PID HAL comp so its notion of acceleration is one servo cycle late
[13:21:49] <pcw_home> ( possible 2 depending on where FF1s velocity comes from)
[13:23:01] <mozmck> I would have to dig into that more than I have time for right now to understand it I'm afraid.
[13:24:32] * pcw_home starts up the broken record
[13:26:03] <pcw_home> This is why the TP should provide velocity and acceleration numbers (via lookahead)
[13:26:04] <pcw_home> for the next segment, since the HAL calculated values are too late
[13:29:28] <jepler> ssi: the software stepgen and hostmot2 stepgen both have internal control loops to create velocity commands, but pcw has determined that for hm2, PID does a better job.
[13:29:57] <ssi> ahh I see
[13:30:29] <jepler> it's on a todo list of mine to put the better control loop inside hostmot2 so this becomes unnecessary, but it hasn't reached the top 4
[13:30:44] <jepler> I just hope I haven't lost my notes from pcw on the subject
[13:30:46] <pcw_home> the PID system is a lot more tolerant of jitter
[13:31:18] <pcw_home> (or can be tuned to be I should say)
[13:32:50] <jepler> it's my hope that with the right knowledge inside the driver (pll setting and nominal realtime period) it could do as well as tuned PID with zero external tunables
[13:33:29] <jepler> as for acceleration, it would be nice to have that from motion but when it comes to nontrivial kinematics I'm not sure motion really even knows what acceleration it's calling for
[13:33:43] <jepler> and I'd hate to create more barriers for merging JA
[13:35:41] <jepler> pcw_home: did you have a chance to look at my proposed patch for hm2 encoder parameters as pins? If you gave me feedback, I missed it.
[13:35:58] <jepler> origin/jepler/hm2-encoder-pins
[13:36:06] <pcw_home> No I did not see it, been pretty buried in work
[13:36:10] <jepler> that's fine
[13:38:39] <seb_kuzminsky> this looks interesting: http://www.aptly.info/
[13:38:43] <pcw_home> I have heard that some fancy CNC control systems have lookahead on feedforward
[13:38:44] <pcw_home> derivatives to compensate for delays in drives etc
[13:39:23] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: I looked at that - it does look neat.
[13:39:51] <mozmck> Seemed like more than I needed for my stuff though and I'm using reprepro
[13:45:25] <alex_joni> evening all
[13:45:48] <jepler> hi alex_joni
[13:45:57] <ssi> seb_kuzminsky: I wonder why they didn't get apt.ly
[13:46:02] <alex_joni> hi jepler
[13:46:22] <ssi> hm probably because this: - Domain Status: Strings shorter than four symbols long are to be registered directly under .ly ONLY through Libya Telecom and Technology co. (LTT) in the upcoming period to guarantee that registrants have Local presence.
[13:46:28] <alex_joni> re linuxcnc.org: afaik they keep disabling it, because we have an ancient version of joomla - and DH finds it non secure
[13:46:57] <cradek> hi alex!
[13:47:48] <mozmck> I think SWP ran into some major problems trying to update joomla - mainly because of plugins IIRC?
[13:47:56] <alex_joni> the disabling is just a chmod, so I just did chmod 755 www.linuxcnc.org as emcboard in /home/emcboard
[13:48:20] <alex_joni> cradek: I think all board members should have login credentials for 'emcboard'
[13:48:22] <cradek> do you know what the long-term solution is?
[13:48:32] <alex_joni> yes, upgrade joomla to yet another version
[13:48:42] <alex_joni> but I have no idea how long-term that is
[13:48:48] <jepler> use a different host who will not feel free to chmod our files
[13:48:51] <jepler> not use joomla at all
[13:49:02] <alex_joni> yeah that is probably easiest
[13:49:33] <mozmck> Aren't most of the pages basically static?
[13:49:38] <alex_joni> most are
[13:49:41] <cradek> personally, I think it would be fine to throw out and redo the whole site other than the forum part
[13:49:49] <alex_joni> the problem is only with the users/form
[13:49:52] <alex_joni> forum
[13:49:59] <mozmck> the forum is tricky because it is a joomla plugin
[13:50:14] <alex_joni> yes, but there should be migration tools to other platforms
[13:50:35] <mozmck> I looked around some and did not see anything right off.
[13:50:49] <mozmck> except for a couple of really old ones.
[13:50:51] <cradek> I doubt any webforum is better than any other webforum as far as letting it run for years without patching it up
[13:51:28] <jepler> right, we will need someone who views it as their job to keep the forum software up to date
[13:51:31] <mozmck> probably not, but if it is not a plugin to the website CMS, then it will be easier to change the website without messing with the forum.
[13:51:53] <cradek> I agree with you both
[13:52:05] <mozmck> phpbb seems to be pretty popular - especially for larger forums it seems.
[13:52:38] <archivist> phpbb has historically had many holes in it
[13:52:58] <mozmck> I see. Do you know of a better one?
[13:53:14] <archivist> I tend to view them all as bad
[13:53:29] <cradek> I do too, but it's not a helpful opinion
[13:53:30] <mozmck> haha! well, that's another discussion
[13:53:32] <alex_joni> actually we had quite few problems with kunena
[13:54:03] <jepler> those of us who are not in the forum mindset are not the ones whose opinions matter
[13:54:16] <jepler> we're also probably uninformed about the current general state of security of any of them
[13:54:23] <cradek> alex_joni: exactly what makes it hard to do an update of joomla and kunena today?
[13:54:32] <cradek> yes let's please not get sidetracked
[13:54:58] <alex_joni> cradek: it's not exactly hard
[13:55:06] <mozmck> I rarely use forums myself, but I do help maintain a phpbb based one for our company.
[13:55:09] <alex_joni> it's just a pita.. a bit of research what is needed
[13:55:15] <alex_joni> then a backup
[13:55:36] <alex_joni> then downloading some packages, and trying to install them in the existing joomla
[13:55:53] <alex_joni> the problem is in the details when things start to fail
[13:56:08] <cradek> sure
[13:56:24] <mozmck> someone might ask SWP what he ran into.
[13:56:27] <alex_joni> but other than that it's not a big thing
[13:56:39] <alex_joni> last time I think I upgraded it from 1.0.x to 1.5.x iirc
[13:56:40] <cradek> can we discard parts of the site we don't care about to make it easier? polls for instance, nobody cares about
[13:57:13] <alex_joni> we now have 1.5.26
[13:57:24] <cradek> I see the main part of the site as about 10 static pages, 7 of which are grossly out of date
[13:57:30] <jepler> > The latest version of Joomla! is 3.4
[13:57:38] <alex_joni> latest is 3.4.4
[13:57:40] <cradek> then there's the forum, which I assume is one plugin?
[13:57:53] <cradek> that's a lot of numbers different
[13:57:54] <alex_joni> actually there's a plugin called community builder
[13:58:07] <alex_joni> which extends the user accounts you can register on linuxcnc.org
[13:58:22] <alex_joni> (with things like picture, email, location, etc)
[13:58:29] <mozmck> We tried updating a 2.x joomla install to 3.x and we failed because some of the plugins we required were not updated for 3.x
[13:58:36] <alex_joni> and the CB stuff gets used by another plugin for the google maps thing
[13:58:44] <alex_joni> (that probably also stopped working a while ago)
[13:58:51] <cradek> I think the map is working today
[13:59:01] <alex_joni> then there's kunena which also relies on the CB accounts
[13:59:12] <cradek> oh ok, so it's a necessary part
[13:59:24] <alex_joni> I know I had to rewrite/hack some parts of the maps plugin to make it work on 1.5
[13:59:35] <cradek> (I'd be willing to lower expectations temporarily or permanently, like losing the map, to get up to date more easily)
[13:59:57] <alex_joni> then there's the issue of template - which is also a plugin
[14:00:03] <alex_joni> CSS + page layout
[14:00:06] <jepler> I don't care if it looks totally different
[14:00:11] <cradek> I don't either
[14:00:15] <archivist> some default
[14:00:16] <jepler> everyone expects web pages to look different on a regular basis anyway
[14:00:17] <alex_joni> which probably changed from 1.5. to 2.x and 3.x
[14:00:36] <jepler> once we're out of crisis mode we can do more if there are tuits left
[14:01:03] <cradek> does anyone have time and gumption to work on it until we're out of crisis mode?
[14:01:19] <alex_joni> https://docs.joomla.org/Portal:Upgrading_Versions#Migration_1.5_to_3.x
[14:01:36] * alex_joni has been on the road for the last 2-3 months?
[14:02:31] <cradek> > The fabulous thing about migration is that it is a great time to reassess goals, create a new look and feel (template), clean up, and develop other areas/elements of your site.
[14:02:44] <cradek> [translation] We didn't get this working, sorry. You'll have to start over.
[14:02:53] <mozmck> heh!
[14:02:54] <cradek> sigh
[14:04:12] <mozmck> Or, rebuild using something like the static site generators seb_kuzminsky mentioned a while back?
[14:04:22] <cradek> I'd love that, but we need to deal with the forum somehow
[14:04:32] <cradek> the site other than the forum can be *anything*
[14:04:38] <mozmck> yes, that would have to be mirgrated to something else.
[14:04:39] <cradek> it's a trivial site
[14:05:46] <alex_joni> so we have the following modules in joomla: CB (Community builder), Joomfish (for translations), Kunena (forum), MOSpjirc (online IRC client), lcncmap (map),
[14:06:13] <jepler> ditch translations, irc client, and map with prejudice
[14:06:25] <jepler> point users at webchat.freenode.net for IRC
[14:07:02] <jepler_WEBCHAT> hello is this thing turned on
[14:07:07] <mozmck> yep
[14:07:08] <jepler_WEBCHAT> this looks pretty good akshuly
[14:07:23] <alex_joni> heh
[14:07:52] <archivist> https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=1593795
[14:08:09] <cradek> joomla is not even listed on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software
[14:08:20] <alex_joni> kunena isn't either
[14:08:26] <mozmck> archivist: yeah, I saw that, but it's a bit old.
[14:08:31] <jepler> cradek: (joomla is not an internet forum)
[14:08:41] <alex_joni> jepler: he meant kunena
[14:08:49] <cradek> I meant kunena
[14:09:27] <alex_joni> but I doubt there are only 25? forum softwares
[14:09:34] <mozmck> I've installed MyBB before and it looked pretty nice. Never used it though.
[14:09:41] <jepler> besides migrating, another strategy would be archiving
[14:09:52] <jepler> make a static copy of the old forum and then make a whole new forum instead
[14:11:13] <cradek> I'd sure rather see an import, if we decide to switch
[14:11:15] <alex_joni> well.. I think upgrading to joomla 3.4 will buy us a couple years
[14:11:39] <cradek> I wonder precisely what dreamhost is complaining about
[14:11:58] <cradek> swp gets those emails but I don't think he pays attention to them
[14:12:02] <jepler> go find the string that says "1.5" and change it to "3.4" or "9.9" :)
[14:13:33] <alex_joni> the stupid thing is that we have joomla installed as an 'app' from DH and it's set to automatically upgrade
[14:13:56] <alex_joni> last updated is '2013-04-06' though
[14:14:39] <cradek> the other stupid thing is we're not being exploited, and way back when we were, dreamhost didn't notice
[14:14:56] <cradek> but still, we need to do ... something
[14:15:05] <alex_joni> there is a 'remove from list' option
[14:15:15] <cradek> remove what from what list?
[14:15:19] <alex_joni> which might remove their info that we have joomla installed and not updated
[14:15:22] <archivist> and why
[14:15:40] <alex_joni> cradek: there's a list with installed 'goodies' (or 'apps')
[14:15:48] <cradek> ah
[14:15:50] <archivist> would that also remove joomla
[14:15:51] <jepler> alex_joni: is it that there's no joomla upgrade from DH or that they think it's not installable for some reason
[14:15:51] <alex_joni> basicly you select a domain, and you have one-click-installs
[14:15:58] <jepler> (like we modified a file that the upgrade would overwrite)
[14:16:08] <alex_joni> I think the upgrade failed for some reason and it got stuck
[14:16:24] <cradek> alex_joni: do you have access to the emails I assume they've been sending?
[14:16:43] <alex_joni> nope
[14:16:53] <alex_joni> I only have shared access in the panel insterface
[14:16:53] <cradek> flying blind here
[14:17:01] <alex_joni> interface even
[14:17:08] <alex_joni> jepler would probably know it
[14:17:16] <jepler> huh?
[14:17:20] <jepler> I don't have access to anything in our DH
[14:17:40] <jepler> I used to have my own DH account but I don't even have that anymore
[14:17:46] <alex_joni> not in our DH, but you also had hosting at DH for a while
[14:18:06] <alex_joni> yeah, I mean tyou might be familiar with their webpanel/admin interface
[14:18:09] <mozmck> I have DH hosting
[14:18:14] <jepler> it's been some time
[14:18:24] <mozmck> their panel is a bit different that a lot.
[14:18:28] <mozmck> than
[14:18:37] <alex_joni> yup.. most use cpanel, they use their own software
[14:18:45] <mozmck> yep
[14:19:18] <alex_joni> I wonder if removing the joomla one-click install from the DH list will make them not notice it
[14:19:31] <alex_joni> cradek: we can always put a cron to chmod the folder..
[14:19:48] <jepler> they'll probably do something heavier eventually
[14:20:18] <jepler> we need to get our site back to the point where it can be auto-updated with minimal effort
[14:20:26] <mozmck> alex_joni: you should be able to add emails to be contacted in the account prefs
[14:21:03] <alex_joni> I could probably make the upgrade, the problem is when..
[14:21:37] <alex_joni> I'd suggest we leave it like this for a while (if they take it down again, anyone from the board should be able to chmod - even if I'm not around)
[14:22:02] <alex_joni> cradek: are backups still beeing done on your end?
[14:22:04] <archivist> someone should build a copy site to test the upgrade
[14:22:29] <alex_joni> archivist: I tried that last time.. but it's too much work
[14:22:32] <cradek> yes I make routine backups of everything but the isos
[14:22:38] <cradek> including a database dump
[14:22:54] <alex_joni> then we should be able to restore even if I bork something up
[14:23:03] <cradek> yes I think so, although it's untested
[14:23:03] <alex_joni> I'll try to take a stab at it this weekend
[14:23:14] <cradek> that would be awesome
[14:23:29] <archivist> total size ?
[14:24:28] <cradek> Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on
[14:24:31] <cradek> pool/chris/linuxcnc_org 416627880 32905283 383722597 8% /home/chris/linuxcnc_org
[14:24:36] <cradek> 33 GB
[14:24:41] <jepler> whaaaa
[14:24:45] <jepler> how is it 33GB?
[14:24:58] <mozmck> forum?
[14:25:00] <jepler> is that including debs?
[14:25:00] <cradek> forum attachments are in there, apt archive
[14:25:02] <cradek> yes
[14:25:06] <archivist> ew not enough space on this box to practice
[14:26:51] <alex_joni> there;s a linuxcnc_org.sql file about 99MB
[14:27:02] <cradek> yes that's the database dump
[14:27:11] <archivist> little
[14:27:19] <alex_joni> so the DB is small
[14:27:37] <cradek> yes or the dump is incomplete
[14:27:42] <cradek> one or the other
[14:28:41] <alex_joni> I think someone started installing a newer joomla?
[14:28:41] <ssi> I can see attachments getting out of hand
[14:28:56] <alex_joni> I see 19GB in dists/
[14:29:03] <alex_joni> and 5.5GB in iso/
[14:29:06] <cradek> yes the apt archive is big
[14:29:16] <alex_joni> .8GB in experimental/
[14:29:26] <alex_joni> .2 GB in rpm/
[14:29:40] <jepler> hah rpm
[14:31:14] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/jupgrade/
[14:32:19] <alex_joni> thst's a 2.5.6 install
[14:32:33] <archivist> I was looking at the upgrading notes, seems lots of little version steps
[14:34:12] <mozmck> alex_joni: I think that's the upgrade SWP attempted.
[14:35:00] <cradek> so it's another major version newer than the last time we failed
[14:37:06] <cradek> phpbb does not have threading
[14:37:16] <cradek> it would be nice to have threading
[14:37:47] <cradek> [says the guy who only reads the forum using rss2email]
[14:37:47] <alex_joni> mozmck: right
[14:38:24] <mozmck> cradek: I'm unsure what threading is in that context.
[14:38:39] <alex_joni> there's a button to upgrade that 2.5.6 to 2.5.28
[14:38:56] * alex_joni pokes it
[14:39:10] <cradek> mozmck: I expect it to mean that you see the messages in conversational order (each one is under the one it's replying to) instead of chronological
[14:39:17] <mozmck> cradek: oh, I see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software#Flat_vs._threaded
[14:39:30] <mozmck> yes, that would be nice.
[14:40:32] <cradek> mybb seems to be a capable candidate
[14:40:33] <alex_joni> Joomla! Version Update Status
[14:40:33] <alex_joni> Your site has been successfully updated. Your Joomla version is now 2.5.28.
[14:40:39] <alex_joni> magic :)
[14:40:48] <cradek> alex_joni: it's like one page
[14:41:03] <cradek> alex_joni: so, unimpressive magic :-)
[14:42:13] <alex_joni> they changed 2358 files
[14:42:18] <cradek> > The next major release of MyBB will be 2.0, targeted for a release within MyBB's typical release cycle. Currently in early development, it is being rewritten from scratch
[14:42:20] <alex_joni> for that one page :))
[14:42:35] <cradek> yuck, to me that takes mybb out of the running
[14:43:02] <cradek> > The GitHub development repository will be opened to the public for contributions and an alpha download released once the new code-base becomes "working software with all the basics"
[14:43:32] <alex_joni> still it leaves us with 2.5.28, but that's still with ended support
[14:43:42] <alex_joni> I'll have a stab at migrating from out 1.5.x to 3.4.4
[14:43:57] <jepler> alex_joni: did you say what our kunena version is?
[14:44:02] <jepler> Apparently they're on "K2" now, a big rewrite
[14:44:08] <cradek> arrgh
[14:44:24] <archivist> 2.5 to 3.x looks easier than 1.5-3.x
[14:44:32] <cradek> this one had security holes so they're rewriting it from scratch
[14:45:07] <alex_joni> jepler: I didn't say.. but I can look
[14:45:20] <ssi> are all forum packages written in php? :P
[14:45:27] <archivist> no
[14:45:38] <cradek> nearly
[14:45:46] <archivist> some are worse....in java
[14:45:47] <ssi> no good can come of php :D
[14:45:49] <alex_joni> it's 2.0.4
[14:45:54] <mozmck> java is worse
[14:46:27] <ssi> some existing forum software that's java might be worse, but java is not worse than php by any stretch of the imagination :P
[14:46:32] <jepler> 4.0.6 is current
[14:46:36] <jepler> so I guess they're WAY past K2
[14:46:36] <alex_joni> yup :/
[14:47:04] <mozmck> ugh, confluence is in Java, and the kicad site used to use it and had nothing but trouble.
[14:47:36] <mozmck> It's not like it gets a lot of traffic either. They couldn't give it enough cpu and memory to not keep crashing.
[14:47:41] <jepler> Kunena 4.0.6 doesn't seem to need Community Builder
[14:48:24] <cradek> pretty sure we could import a duplicate/snapshot database if you want to try pointing a new kunena at it
[14:48:55] <alex_joni> jepler: no it doesn't
[14:49:04] <alex_joni> K2 doesn't need it, but it uses it
[14:49:18] <alex_joni> we have a kunena plugin for interfacing with CB
[14:49:43] <alex_joni> CB is just a way to keep things in one place (and the place doesn't suck - like the regular joomla user accounts)
[14:49:56] <jepler> Compat 34.png Not all versions of Kunena can be installed/upgraded on J! 3.4 websites. If you are upgrading from an older version of Kunena (that was previously installed on your Joomla website) on J! 3.4+ you can only use K 3.0.7 or higher.
[14:49:59] <alex_joni> K4 only works on Joomla 2.5 and 3.4
[14:50:44] <alex_joni> http://www.kunena.org/docs/Technical_Requirements#Joomla_requirements
[14:50:52] <jepler> well what I've learned so far is that in way under an hour I can have an empty website with current joomla and kunena, but that doesn't help in any way with updating an existing installation
[14:51:17] <jepler> but trying to shovel our existing database into a new wineskin^Wwebhost would be one possible course of action
[14:51:18] <alex_joni> for 1.0.x to 1.5.x there were some components for migrating
[14:51:20] <jepler> but now I have to go AFK
[14:51:39] <jepler> K 4.0's docs say that migrating from K2 works
[14:53:01] <alex_joni> yes, but only on a 2.5 or 3.4 joomla
[14:54:40] <archivist> didnt you just get 2.5 running?
[14:56:16] <cradek> it's just a front page
[14:56:23] <cradek> no content, no links, no forum
[14:57:01] <archivist> install k4 in that and migrate the forum, limping forward then
[15:01:03] <alex_joni> archivist: the migrate for kunena is: install k4 ontop of k2
[15:02:43] <alex_joni> more or less
[15:59:33] <seb_kuzminsky> alex_joni: thanks for looking at it
[16:08:40] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: sure
[16:09:04] <alex_joni> sorry I've been out of the picture in the last period
[16:09:55] <cradek> coming back when we ask for your help is the opposite of something to apologize for
[16:12:11] <cradek> andypugh: are you and your bike safely home now?
[16:12:47] <andypugh> Yes to both :-)
[16:12:51] <cradek> yay
[16:13:13] <cradek> do you know what's wrong with it yet?
[16:13:27] <andypugh> I haven’t looked at the Naughty Ner-a-Car yet, though. I am trying to finish a foundry pattern
[16:13:58] <cradek> ooh what are you casting?
[16:14:26] <andypugh> Motor mount for the Holbrook
[16:14:44] <andypugh> Not a home casting, it’s about 50kg
[16:15:35] <cradek> wood with a single parting line?
[16:16:07] <andypugh> Yes, but also with a core.
[16:16:09] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/t30w7IzwpLdSNfPFP6orwNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:16:30] <andypugh> Shows where it goes, but in that photo it was going to be a fabrication.
[16:16:52] <andypugh> In the next photos you can see the casting and other stuffs.
[16:16:53] <alex_joni> cradek: it was meant as a regret, not an apology ;)
[16:17:23] <cradek> andypugh: jeez that's huge
[16:17:28] <cradek> love your clamps
[16:17:33] <cradek> alex_joni: :-)
[16:18:06] <andypugh> I am rather stretching the capacity of my mill, it is true
[16:19:24] <andypugh> That glue-up is the blank for half of the pattern and all of the core box, so looks bigger than it really is.
[16:20:09] <cradek> I still can't believe the size of those selenium rectifiers
[16:20:33] <cradek> I hear they tend to burn up and are quite noxious, but I haven't had one fail yet
[17:22:06] <andypugh> I think the reason Selenium rectifiers get so big is that they can only stand about 20V each. So you need to make them into stacks for higher voltage.
[17:22:58] <cradek> no wonder they have a catastrophic failure mode then!
[17:23:30] <andypugh> Ah, yes, a chain reaction seems likely doens’t it?
[17:24:05] <andypugh> I almost want to over-voltage some to watch.
[17:24:20] <cradek> make a video! outside!
[17:26:30] <andypugh> I can’t bring myself to willfully destroy anything.
[17:29:29] <cradek> the radio I'm working on has a stack of just 6, so it seems like it must be >20
[17:31:28] <andypugh> Wikipedia says 20V. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selenium_rectifier . That is no guarantee of veracity though.
[17:33:08] <cradek> I guess it's not clear to me how much would be across this one - would have to scope it
[17:33:24] <cradek> seems like you'd have the full 170v for at least the first few cycles
[17:38:04] <alex_joni> the only thing I willfully distroyed was a PIC microcontroller
[17:38:10] <alex_joni> that thing was just pure evil
[17:38:19] <alex_joni> eventually I underclocked it to 50Hz
[17:48:56] <jepler> I know where you can easily get a 50Hz clock signal, and I can see why that might destroy a microcontroller
[17:50:24] <andypugh> I wonder if it is reasonable to leave the machine in “pause” overnight?
[17:51:31] <andypugh> It doesn’t feel like the right thing to do, but it is 2327 and the program is on line 32,000 of 51,000
[17:52:08] <andypugh> At least it is fairly cold here so I doubt that the neigbours have windows open.
[18:04:26] <andypugh> cradek: Am I right in observing that Axis runs through the G-code checking machine limits before running a file, but Touchy doesn’t?
[18:05:25] <jepler> touchy certainly doesn't
[18:05:55] <jepler> and not a lot of stock should be put in axis' assessment of soft limits, unfortunately. I think it badly biffs applying TLOs properly
[18:07:03] <jepler> I meant well when I wrote the code ages ago :-/
[18:17:09] <andypugh> You seem to do better than Autodesk HSMEdit, which seems to hardly work at all. (It’s not a bad text editor). I wish my machine really could machine this:
[18:17:10] <andypugh> Tool Min X Min Y Min Z Max X Max Y Max Z Time
[18:17:11] <andypugh> --------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+----------
[18:17:12] <andypugh> All -204656.8125-3783183.0-82206.5625136120.1563 3896263.0 90.139224654:38:30
[18:17:34] <jepler> ummm
[18:17:42] <jepler> how many of those digits are the estimated time?
[18:18:34] <andypugh> 224654 hours
[18:19:20] <jepler> oh dear
[18:19:31] <andypugh> But I am machining a 350m long workpiece, it thinks.
[18:19:46] <jepler> you might need to make some changes to reduce total milling time
[18:19:59] <jepler> my calculator tells me that's 25+ years
[18:20:17] <andypugh> Nah, I’ll just wait.
[18:45:00] <KimK_laptop> If it would take 25 years, but you can only machine half the time because the neighbors are trying to sleep, wouldn't that be 50 years?
[18:49:07] <andypugh> It actually looks to be nigh-on finished.
[18:49:52] <andypugh> (I have a halmeter of motion.program-line in a little remote X window via ssh on my Mac screen. :-)
[18:50:45] <andypugh> (motion.program line shows 0 when finished or awaiting a manual tool change, so it works perfetly)
[18:54:40] <KimK_laptop> Excellent, I'll have to try that sometime.
[18:58:00] <andypugh> It’s very easy, ssh -Y andypugh@mill / halcmd loaudusr halmeter -s pin motion.program-line
[19:26:54] <jepler> cute
[20:49:44] <cradek> I can't imagine anything wrong with pausing overnight
[20:50:43] <cradek> yes touchy does not run the program for you, which is a nice nonfeature if your program is infinite
[21:10:15] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/149096
[21:23:51] <cradek> > The lathe Gcode is nothing like Mach3... It is like Fanuc lathes so it is now like Peter Smid's book So U and W are Inc moves I will put up a turn program tomorrow
[21:23:57] <cradek> that is a big and useful accomplishment
[21:33:31] <jepler> so in this dialect, X is absolute and U is relative, but they both refer to the same axis?
[21:33:38] <jepler> .. interesting
[21:33:39] <cradek> yes I think so
[21:34:15] <jepler> In my rasterizer it would have been convenient to mix relative and absolute motions more freely
[21:34:17] <cradek> but more useful is like G1 Z-3 U.01
[21:34:28] <cradek> yeah
[21:34:30] <jepler> but not hard to keep track of the coordinates and just do everything in absolute
[21:34:47] <cradek> often people say too bad I can't have both relative and absolute in the same move
[21:35:10] <jepler> I can imagine it in hand-written gcode
[21:35:12] <cradek> and lathes often? have that
[21:35:16] <cradek> yeah
[21:35:22] <cradek> in generated code, who cares
[21:35:54] <jepler> G1 X[#<inconvenient_and_underdocumented_variable_name>+.01] Z-3
[21:36:13] <cradek> yeah, but ugh
[23:42:23] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05seb/2.6/motion-logger a6091f0 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/motion-logger/motion-logger.c 10tests/motion-logger/test-ui.py 10tests/motion-logger/test.sh teach motion-logger to make multiple log files * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=a6091f0
[23:42:23] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05seb/2.6/motion-logger 76c2fe1 06linuxcnc 10(6 files) verify sub-tests as they run * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=76c2fe1
[23:42:24] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05seb/2.6/motion-logger cca0a24 06linuxcnc 10tests/motion-logger/test.sh kill motion-logger in the test script in case the UI fails to do it * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=cca0a24
[23:42:26] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05seb/2.6/motion-logger 4f5733b 06linuxcnc 10(7 files) rename the built-in tests for future clarit * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f5733b