#linuxcnc-devel | Logs for 2014-06-16

[09:43:43] <skunkworks_> yay
[09:43:44] <skunkworks_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/27368-new-trajectory-planner-testersprograms-wanted?start=160#47997
[09:55:58] <micges1> skunkworks: I've located problems with half of spikes on limited jerk tp, second half is WIP
[09:56:04] <micges1> skunkworks_: ^^
[09:57:37] <cradek> skunkworks_: that's great, wish we'd hear back about http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/27946
[10:01:50] <skunkworks_> yes - I have been running some gcode using axis 0,1 setup like his ini.. I have not seen it yet
[10:02:04] <skunkworks_> could be a realtime thing.. I have not tried that
[10:02:29] <skunkworks_> micges1: Nice!
[10:07:35] <skunkworks_> logger[psha]:
[10:07:35] <logger[psha]> skunkworks_: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc-devel/2014-06-16.html
[11:02:38] <seb_kuzminsky> 
[11:02:47] <seb_kuzminsky> oops
[11:02:55] <seb_kuzminsky> i mean hi!
[11:03:36] <CaptHindsight> is there a new ubc-3 branch where current xenomai / preempt_rt code is taking place?
[11:03:49] <CaptHindsight> is this the newest one? http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/unified-build-candidate-3
[11:03:54] <seb_kuzminsky> if there is, it's in the machinekit repo
[11:04:04] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont know anything about that
[11:04:31] <CaptHindsight> so that's the machinekit/mah branch
[11:05:19] <seb_kuzminsky> it's in mah's repo, so.... <shrug>
[11:05:59] <CaptHindsight> i think what memleak was wondering is where is the latest branch for linuxcnc that can use xenomai and preempt_rt?
[11:06:44] <pcw_home> ubc3-7i80 :-)
[11:07:00] <CaptHindsight> where is that git repo?
[11:07:34] <CaptHindsight> and is that where linuxcnc development should go for this vs mah?
[11:08:01] <seb_kuzminsky> there's currently no branch at git.linuxcnc.org that has active linuxcnc xenomai/rt-preempt development in it
[11:08:14] <seb_kuzminsky> there are some left-over branches from before the mk folks split
[11:08:26] <seb_kuzminsky> but i dont know what state they're in
[11:08:52] <seb_kuzminsky> at some point (hopefully in the 2.7 development cycle) we'll see what we can do about those other realtime kernels
[11:09:03] <CaptHindsight> ok, so what is the plan if someone wishes to stay with linuxcnc and use xenomai and preempt_rt?
[11:09:05] <CaptHindsight> ah
[11:09:19] <seb_kuzminsky> if anyone wants to pick up that work it's be much appreciated
[11:09:28] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl
[11:09:28] <CaptHindsight> for now what to do to not waste time and work
[11:10:08] <micges1> CaptHindsight: machinekit is still 100% comatible with old linuxcnc
[11:10:57] <CaptHindsight> micges-dev: for now, but if you're planning on staying with linuxcnc but moving ahead with xenomai or prempt_rt what to do
[11:11:35] <cradek> if I was in that spot, I'd start by separating out the new-rtos rtapi changes from the ubc3 branch
[11:11:53] <cradek> it would be great if someone would take that on
[11:12:20] <CaptHindsight> who knows what will happen with machinekit
[11:15:05] <CaptHindsight> cradek: and ubc3 contains all the un-commented magic changes?
[11:15:28] <cradek> I don't understand your question
[11:17:28] <CaptHindsight> I was under the impression that ubc3 had some many changes without comments that it couldn't be part of linuxcnc
[11:18:01] <CaptHindsight> a year or so worth of changes without detailed explanation
[11:18:57] <cradek> well it is many different things all merged together
[11:19:42] <cradek> lack of comments wasn't really the problem
[11:20:00] <cradek> it was a lot of things that should have been evaluated/reviewed/merged separately
[11:20:13] <cradek> the new-rtos support is something I think everyone wanted/wants
[11:20:14] <CaptHindsight> I understand
[11:20:31] <cradek> if someone could separate that out it would be wonderful
[11:20:48] <cradek> it might not be too hard, perhaps being limited to certain directories
[11:20:58] <CaptHindsight> RTAI passed 3.4.x is broken for now
[11:21:13] <cradek> yeah I read your summary a few days ago, thanks for the report
[11:21:41] <cradek> I hope we can make a new live cd based on 3.4 and then figure out what to do next
[11:21:44] <cradek> brb
[11:21:48] <CaptHindsight> so if you want to use xenomai and preempt_rt and not have the work go to waste or dead end what to do
[11:23:32] <CaptHindsight> pcw_home: where is that ubc3-7i80 repo?
[11:24:32] <CaptHindsight> it's known working with the HM2-ethernet as well?
[11:26:42] <micges> CaptHindsight: yes it's working with hm2_ethernet on rt-preempt kernel
[11:27:14] <micges> CaptHindsight: repo: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubc3-7i80
[11:27:25] <CaptHindsight> micges: thanks
[11:28:22] <CaptHindsight> probably makes more sense to use that to separate out changes vs the mah branch
[11:55:24] <IchGuckLive> hi is it posible to get the version number of linuxcnc ob the livecd listet in download its confusing with the changelogs on the leftside
[12:04:05] <cradek> dpkg -l linuxcnc
[12:05:11] <IchGuckLive> cradek: i mean the readings on the linuxcnc.org downloadpage
[12:05:35] <IchGuckLive> there is a md5 listed butt not the version number on the cd itself
[12:05:46] <cradek> I don't understand what you are asking
[12:06:17] <cradek> if you're talking about a webpage, give the url?
[12:07:17] <IchGuckLive> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
[12:08:08] <cradek> ok, maybe I understand now
[12:08:22] <cradek> after step 5 (install updates) you will have the latest 2.5 version
[12:08:26] <IchGuckLive> Example download the iso Containing Linuxcnc 2.5.4
[12:08:35] <cradek> there is no such thing
[12:08:44] <cradek> we have never rebuilt the iso for each linuxcnc release and we never will
[12:08:58] <cradek> just run the updates
[12:08:59] <IchGuckLive> ok
[12:09:06] <archivist> at least state the version it is
[12:09:29] <IchGuckLive> but then wie need to inform non CNC freaks and non Linuxuser there is 2.5.0 on the CD
[12:09:29] <cradek> why? you should always run the updates. you should never download an iso in order to update the linuxcnc version.
[12:09:50] <archivist> and be explicit about need to update
[12:10:03] <cradek> ... it's step 5
[12:10:11] <archivist> remember its noobs downloading
[12:10:18] <IchGuckLive> most of my users do not have any internet connecion at all on the CNC pc
[12:10:45] <cradek> sigh
[12:10:53] <IchGuckLive> i understand you and i do so if i can do it my own
[12:10:57] <cradek> then you will need to help your users
[12:11:17] <cradek> you can do apt over sneakernet, but it's a pain
[12:11:21] <cradek> running a wire is better
[12:14:13] <cradek> synaptic has something about "generate package download script" in the file menu
[12:14:24] <cradek> I think this is for sneakernet?
[12:14:25] <IchGuckLive> normal users expect to be the latest versions on the cd that is not the case and ""Connect to the internet and get any updates "" does not say there is the master version only on the CD
[12:14:33] <IchGuckLive> the CNC wll run
[12:15:03] <IchGuckLive> shure but the benefit from the updates are not given 2.5.0 vs 2.5.4
[12:15:24] <cradek> you can see the changelogs on the left
[12:15:45] <IchGuckLive> we know it that this is the case
[12:16:11] <IchGuckLive> we see it dayly on the irc or on the forum people asking from livecd start
[12:16:27] <IchGuckLive> so step 5 is not DONE in many cases
[12:17:19] <IchGuckLive> 5. Connect to the internet and get LATEAST Version and updates
[12:17:54] <IchGuckLive> this will be a hint for europeans to see there is a need for
[12:18:02] <archivist> it is plain rude and lazy to not give the version number the CD was built with on the download page in my opinion
[12:18:34] <IchGuckLive> 5. Connect to the internet and get LATEAST Changelog Version and updates
[12:18:57] <IchGuckLive> this will show there is not the latest version on the cd
[12:19:14] <cradek> I tried to improve instruction #5 to make it clearer
[12:19:56] <IchGuckLive> 5. Connect to the internet and get LATEAST Changelog Version (LiveCd containing 2.5.0) and updates
[12:20:35] <IchGuckLive> this will shure get lots of people feared to get linuxcnc at all
[12:21:38] <IchGuckLive> Thanks BYE
[12:36:08] <pcw_home> is IchGuckLive volunteering to make the live cd images?
[13:18:27] <cradek> pcw_home: I wish it were easier for people without net connections to get their package updates
[13:18:55] <cradek> I think that's the root of his concern, or at least close to it
[13:19:14] <cradek> I don't know how to do that except maybe find good documentation for that synaptic/sneakernet thing
[13:19:56] <cradek> in the past I've seen people get the idea that reinstalling their OS is the right way to update linuxcnc, and I don't want to do anything that encourages that, because it is harmful in many ways
[13:22:55] <CaptHindsight> updates from thumb drive might be best
[13:23:21] <CaptHindsight> we have trouble with new CD burned in new drives working in old PC;s with old drives
[13:24:07] <archivist> I have wasted a day getting a CD burnt and readable
[13:26:36] <archivist> another nice way to get screwed is get CD build a working system update then transfer HD to new PC, you get the network problem someone else did the other day, then waste an hour or three getting updates working again
[13:29:54] <pcw_home> I typically have good luck swapping Ubuntu hard drives from system to system
[13:29:56] <pcw_home> (and network setup is usually a minute or two job)
[13:30:32] <CaptHindsight> I think Ubuntu finally gave up on bullet proof X, but their broken network manager seems to have improved
[13:30:37] <pcw_home> Yeah I dont use CDs any more, USB install is so much easier
[13:31:27] <CaptHindsight> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ used this maybe 20 times in the past week or so without any problems
[13:32:05] <pcw_home> Yes I use that as well, "just works"
[13:35:05] <cradek> I also use usb installs (or pxe) exclusively now. CDs are a pain.
[13:35:38] <pcw_home> cradek: I guess its hard for me to understand why you would go through the amount of pain
[13:35:39] <pcw_home> an unconnected system is to update seems like even rigging a temporary connection is simpler
[13:35:52] <cradek> (I will make no effort to make any new distros I build fit on CDs. Everyone else seems to have given up caring about that too...)
[13:36:58] <cradek> pcw_home: it's hard to know what everyone's situation is - but it's pretty universal that we all think our own situation is the most prevalent, heh.
[13:37:57] <pcw_home> I recently install Ubuntu 14.04 on a HTPC and the image is 900+M so I think Ubuntu is not even making CD size images anymore
[13:38:07] <cradek> that's good to know, thanks
[13:40:10] <skunkworks> I don't think 12.04 desktop didn't fit on a cd..
[13:40:30] <skunkworks> wait - oh - you know what I mean
[13:40:41] <cradek> nope
[13:40:42] <pcw_home> 12.04 fits
[13:40:47] <skunkworks> really?
[13:40:54] <archivist> that is what he said
[13:41:14] <archivist> not what he though he said
[13:41:24] <skunkworks> 731mb fits on a cd?
[13:41:41] <pcw_home> I think 12.04 is the last one I installed via CD
[13:41:46] <cradek> I think CDs are 650 or 700
[13:41:53] <cradek> nowadays usually 700
[13:42:10] <cradek> they may have remade it (updates), and it got bigger?
[13:42:22] <skunkworks> maybe that was it
[13:43:32] <pcw_home> canonicals site lists 12.04 as "desktop CD", but 14.04 as "Desktop image"
[13:47:30] <pcw_home> anyway in these days of $5.00 8G USB sticks, rotating optical media is a bit silly
[13:49:37] <pcw_home> (unless you have such and old PC that it wont boot from USB)
[13:49:50] <cradek> yeah then you have a bit of a mess.
[13:50:11] <cradek> I think I once used a cd that caused usb boot to happen
[13:50:16] <cradek> but of course it's horrible
[13:50:30] <cradek> I guess "use an older os" is maybe the best answer
[13:59:59] <seb_kuzminsky> cdroms are between 650 MB and 900MB in size: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM#Capacity
[14:00:44] <cradek> oh, hm
[14:00:48] <cradek> they must've grown
[14:33:34] <CaptHindsight> Ubuntu 14.04 desktop ISO = 970MB, Xubuntu 14.04 899MB, 12.04 Xubuntu 703MB, 12.04 Ubuntu 721MB
[14:39:33] <CaptHindsight> wow, linuxmint cinnamon 32b ISO 1.3GB
[14:41:12] <CaptHindsight> debian still has 650MB CD images
[17:43:19] <CaptHindsight> seb_kuzminsky: and cradek: memleak said he would work on separating out the new-rtos rtapi changes from the ubc3 branch
[17:44:04] <CaptHindsight> and then figure out how to merge it into the next release with everyones suggestions
[17:58:23] <seb_kuzminsky> CaptHindsight: wow, that would be wonderful
[18:31:47] <memleak> hello all!
[18:33:56] <memleak> in regards to diffing ubc-3 and master, merging, etc. how do you want this done? for the merge are we focusing on merging only xenomai / preempt-rt and not whatever other various changes?
[18:35:58] <memleak> i think a good place to start would be to diff whatever new files are added, then move on to disecting modified existing code and from there cherry-pick (by hand) which changes you guys want and don't want
[18:37:13] <memleak> i can create some various diff blobs for the board of directors and from there you can relay to me what you're comfortable merging and not merging and i can throw it all togethor with git
[18:39:27] <memleak> the only thing i'd personally want are the preempt-rt and xenomai specific changes without touching anything else with the goal of keeping it as close to upstream as possible but thats just my opinion
[18:39:51] <memleak> just let me know what you want and i'll see what i can do :)
[19:16:37] <skunkworks_> that would be awesome
[20:17:22] <skunkworks_> cradek: so machine kit doesn't have all the bug fixes yet?
[20:17:55] <skunkworks_> or - I wonder if he is getting realtime errors.... That might cause issues like that.. (in the back of my mind)
[21:49:31] <memleak> skunkworks_, what's the awesome part?
[21:49:47] * memleak made too many proposals at once
[22:02:43] <skunkworks_> getting support for multible realtime kernels
[22:03:13] <skunkworks_> pcw would love for sure - rt-preeempt as an option in linuxcnc...
[22:10:02] <skunkworks_> (and so would I)