#garfield Logs

Mar 14 2025

#garfield Calendar

12:00 AM VanUnamed: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008294501610.html
12:14 AM VanUnamed: good??
01:25 AM rue_mohr: scary
01:25 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1340044.jpg
01:25 AM rue_mohr: good?
01:45 AM rue_mohr: awe, there is nobody left in the world to like it
02:26 AM rifraf: teslas are so popular here now, they were awesome to have durin a cyclone with no power for a week, hahaha
02:27 AM rifraf: my 21 year old ford keeps going, 460 000km on the clock now
02:30 AM rifraf: + 3 kangaroo hits and a tree that was fallen across the road in a storm, they fixed the body but the radiator and air con was left, is curved like a banana from the kangaroos but still works
03:29 AM rifraf: VanUnamed those batteries look pretty good, tried some?\
03:31 AM rifraf: rue_mohr sweet :P
03:33 AM rifraf: fancy calling a chip sweet 16
03:34 AM rifraf: obviously impossible to find on at least the first few pages of a google search :/
03:40 AM VanUnamed: didnt try
03:41 AM VanUnamed: considering
03:41 AM rifraf: price looks right, get a few
03:43 AM rifraf: i want more of these https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005004865533266.html
03:44 AM rifraf: another couple of beers and will press the buy button i think, so impressed with the one i have
03:47 AM rifraf: cheaper on monday , will make no difference to shipping time, they arrive in like 5 days max\
03:48 AM rifraf: beats me how china can be faster shipping than buying off an ebay local
04:24 AM polprog: https://polprog.net/rozne1/ircjunk/rev2wip.png
04:24 AM polprog: heavy WIP
04:33 AM rifraf: wats it gonna do?
04:52 AM Tom_L: teslas... instead of a spare tire, they carry a spare generator
04:52 AM Tom_L: run off fossil fuels...
05:00 AM rifraf: really? in every car?
05:04 AM Tom_L: was a joke but i have seen some that carry a gen
06:30 AM polprog: rifraf: it's 4 DACs and a serial port, one of the dacs will be tuning a YIG oscillator
06:34 AM polprog: it will also talk to a frequency counter over the serial port
06:34 AM polprog: and there will be a crude loop that tries to keep it somewhat fixed
06:35 AM polprog: its better than our current setup, we have a 9V supply and a potentiometer with no freq readout at all
06:35 AM polprog: that YIG goes to a x20 multiplier to make 160-400GHz for the experiments
08:37 AM polprog: i think ill improve the analog part a little more
08:37 AM polprog: ill make return paths to each dac
08:38 AM rue_mohr: pwm DAC or real analog DAC
08:38 AM rue_mohr: ?
09:00 AM polprog: real analog dac
09:01 AM polprog: MCP4922
04:38 PM polprog: ported the SCPI code to riscv
04:38 PM polprog: i dont have atoi there. Ill have to fix that, hard to parse numeric args with it
06:14 PM rue_mohr: ... FSM what?
06:27 PM polprog: infinite state machine
06:30 PM rue_mohr: digitcollector.c
06:30 PM rue_mohr: where is that
06:33 PM polprog: dunno
06:33 PM rue_mohr: searching
06:33 PM rue_mohr: hold on
06:35 PM rue_mohr: wtf atmega88
06:35 PM rue_mohr: hehe
06:35 PM rue_mohr: that explains it
06:36 PM rue_mohr: this is probably more than you want
06:37 PM rue_mohr: first, the header file numcol.h
06:38 PM rue_mohr: #ifndef __numcol2
06:38 PM rue_mohr: #define __numcol2
06:38 PM rue_mohr: #include <stdint.h>
06:38 PM rue_mohr: #include <string.h>
06:38 PM rue_mohr: #include <ctype.h>
06:38 PM rue_mohr: #include <math.h>
06:38 PM rue_mohr: uint8_t numColIsMult ( char c );
06:38 PM rue_mohr: double numColMultVal ( char p );
06:38 PM rue_mohr: double numColDigitVal( char p );
06:38 PM rue_mohr: double NumColExtract ( const char *p );
06:38 PM rue_mohr: #endif
06:38 PM rue_mohr: oh ok
06:38 PM rue_mohr: https://paste.debian.net/1363174/
06:38 PM rue_mohr: how abotut hat...
06:38 PM rue_mohr: interested so far?
06:39 PM rue_mohr: https://paste.debian.net/1363175/ <- there is the C file
06:39 PM rue_mohr: I have a microcontroller version too
06:40 PM rue_mohr: your not even here anymore are you, I'm just talking to the wall
06:40 PM rifraf: FSM?
06:40 PM rue_mohr: ah, there is someone
06:40 PM rue_mohr: Finite State Machine
06:40 PM rifraf: i feel like i am talking to the wall every time i say something
06:40 PM rue_mohr: this isn't really
06:40 PM polprog: whats that file do rue_mohr
06:41 PM rue_mohr: polprog, NumColExtract ( 150m ); = 0.15
06:41 PM rue_mohr: polprog, NumColExtract ( "150m" ); = 0.15
06:41 PM rue_mohr: sorry
06:42 PM rue_mohr: polprog, NumColExtract ( "1k56" ); = 1560
06:42 PM rue_mohr: let me try to find the microcontroller version
06:42 PM rifraf: trying to work out how to hook up collet chuck to controller today
06:43 PM rue_mohr: ok
06:43 PM rifraf: found a bunch of usefull M codes that are gonna assist alot
06:43 PM rifraf: turns out even the manual has a perfect example for me
06:43 PM rifraf: page 37 https://www.lollette.com/support/pdf/CNC/SMC5-5.pdf
06:43 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, I dont think your driver is stuffed, I think you have to add a jumper
06:44 PM rifraf: and the pages before that show all the M codes to control the outputs
06:44 PM rifraf: its ok rue, the other driver is hooked up and working
06:44 PM rue_mohr: ah
06:44 PM rifraf: pretty sure it has shorted out again the unit during testing
06:44 PM rifraf: just seems to be getting no power
06:44 PM rue_mohr: lots of times you have to reverse engineer the china stuff to figure out how its actually supposed to work
06:45 PM rifraf: it worked perfect for the cyclone, i have taped the pcb this time to reduce shorting possibilities till i get it mounted
06:45 PM rifraf: before*
06:46 PM rue_mohr: polprog, want an avr version?
06:46 PM rifraf: but gonna remove the avr and start controlling with G code today i hope, still no belt for servo connection but it the chuck release i need to get working before it spins
06:47 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, sounds good
06:47 PM rifraf: and work out how to setup a gripper on X axis to move stock when released
06:47 PM rifraf: have a gripper to test with, but need to make some jaws for it
06:47 PM rue_mohr: pusher
06:47 PM polprog: rue_mohr: oooooh
06:47 PM polprog: useful
06:47 PM polprog: very nice
06:47 PM rifraf: puller
06:48 PM polprog: if you have a C version thats okay
06:48 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, the other guy just used a piston tho
06:48 PM polprog: i can port it
06:48 PM rifraf: for now, because the x and y axis can move gripper to where it needs to be
06:48 PM rue_mohr: polprog, let me get avr version, its lighter
06:48 PM rifraf: what other guy?
06:48 PM rue_mohr: https://paste.debian.net/1363178/
06:48 PM rifraf: i have never looked at other ones really
06:49 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, dont you remember the guy who did the pneumatic pusher
06:49 PM rue_mohr: and use the bit as a stop
06:49 PM rifraf: hrm nope, but is ok, pulling will work for now, then can add a pussher to the rear later
06:49 PM rifraf: yes i have one issue with this chuck that i knew of all along
06:50 PM polprog: rue_mohr: nah the riscv is 32 bit
06:50 PM rue_mohr: polprog, https://paste.debian.net/1363179/
06:50 PM rue_mohr: its lighter
06:50 PM polprog: thanks
06:50 PM rue_mohr: should almost do the same thing
06:50 PM rifraf: the stock moves with the collet, so need to pull further than i need, or have the stop set out more to account for this
06:50 PM polprog: i might need to implement something to parse 1.234E+5 format numbers cause gpib likes it that way
06:50 PM polprog: but ill see how it goes
06:51 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, the first method you looked at used a pipe with a leaky piston that when actuated, just pushed on the material into the chuck, the bit was used as a stop to get the rigth length
06:51 PM rifraf: not a show stopper should still get it within a mm of where i need, and excess would get machined off
06:51 PM rue_mohr: polprog, I think my first code there did that?
06:51 PM rifraf: yep i will still need a stopper like the bit
06:51 PM polprog: im too tired to look now
06:51 PM polprog: ill do that later, saved both
06:51 PM rue_mohr: (+-)(dig?)(. | m)(dig?)(m?)(e?(+|-)dig*)
06:52 PM rue_mohr: yea it does, supposedly
06:52 PM polprog: oh i see
06:52 PM rifraf: the pnuematic push or pull will need some slip designed into it
06:52 PM rue_mohr: it just needs to push the material into the head tho
06:52 PM rue_mohr: pushing is easier
06:52 PM rifraf: yeah but then i need to wait for more actuators
06:52 PM rue_mohr: and it was just a crude piston that could spin if it wanted to
06:53 PM rue_mohr: I'm really suprised you dont remember
06:53 PM rue_mohr: too many mushrooms mate
06:53 PM rue_mohr: no
06:53 PM rue_mohr: just put a wad of junk in a pipe
06:53 PM rue_mohr: apply pressure when you want to push the material in
06:53 PM rue_mohr: no actuators used at all
06:53 PM rifraf: or i could use this spare 40mm stroke one that they wrongly sent, was going to just push /pull about 10mm at a time, and do as many of those movements as i need to feed eg. 50mm, is pretty quick still with air
06:54 PM rifraf: yes inedd, too many lotsa thing
06:54 PM rue_mohr: I really thought the other idea was elegant in its simplicity
06:54 PM rifraf: if you find again show me please, no stress though
06:54 PM rue_mohr: just a chunk of pvc pipe
06:54 PM rifraf: yeah i recall something
06:54 PM rue_mohr: oh I'd never be able to dig it up now
06:55 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, can you give us a search of all the youtube links in the channel since rif started his project here?
06:55 PM rifraf: like the guy at work yesterday, i said i was making a injection molder and he sdays oh thats easy
06:55 PM rifraf: i made an injection molder with 1 3d printed part, i said yes thanks, we are on different levels
06:55 PM rue_mohr: polprog, just remmeber, your expected course of action when a solution to do what you need is dropped infront of you is to build your own from scratch :]
06:56 PM polprog: noooo
06:56 PM polprog: i just convinced the uni to shell out $3500 for a second hand frequency counter
06:56 PM polprog: so i will not be making one for 20GHz
06:56 PM rifraf: you know, one of those people that has made everything, but all he has shown me is alot of 3d printed warhammer minitures, lol
06:56 PM polprog: instead, my board will just ask the counter over rs232
06:56 PM rue_mohr: wow, is it like 20 digit?
06:57 PM polprog: let me check
06:57 PM rue_mohr: $3500 is a lot for an old counter
06:58 PM rue_mohr: mine was like $200 and even thats a lot
06:58 PM polprog: well not every counter can do 20GHz
06:58 PM rifraf: thats alot of numbers to count
06:58 PM rue_mohr: hmm
06:58 PM polprog: Agilent 53150A
06:58 PM rifraf: glad i don't need one of them, my $200 ossiliscope counts higher than i need
06:58 PM polprog: Resolution1 s/1 Hz
06:59 PM polprog: yeah. so it actually has 7 digits
06:59 PM rue_mohr: ... but mine...
07:00 PM rue_mohr: LDC-822, ah! 80MHz, ok
07:00 PM rue_mohr: good
07:00 PM rue_mohr: thought I was crazy there for a minute
07:00 PM polprog: i could use a proper counter/gen
07:00 PM rue_mohr: I dont think I know
07:00 PM polprog: the dac board i am building can do 450kHz
07:00 PM polprog: 4 channels
07:00 PM rifraf: rue_mohr that thought might still be true :P
07:01 PM polprog: the spi is shared and there are 2 chans per dac, so running all 4 would make it a little over 100kHz
07:01 PM rifraf: pretty sure i am as well so you are in good company
07:01 PM rue_mohr: :]
07:01 PM rue_mohr: hey you know about the freq gen modules right?
07:01 PM polprog: sure
07:01 PM polprog: but the dacs are for generating a DC voltage and/or PWM
07:02 PM polprog: in that project
07:02 PM polprog: i will want to use them to generate baseband signal for mixing up
07:02 PM rue_mohr: the si5351a
07:02 PM polprog: in a separate project, so i keep the PCB universal
07:02 PM rue_mohr: has two output channels, you can vary the phase and mix them for pwm if you wanted
07:02 PM polprog: i know
07:02 PM rue_mohr: those things are super stable
07:03 PM rue_mohr: fer my context anyhow
07:03 PM polprog: but i need to generate a 0-10 VDC voltage to tune the oscillator
07:03 PM polprog: then 0-5VDC to adjust multiplier power
07:03 PM polprog: and finally 0-5V logic to key it on/off
07:03 PM polprog: so i just made 4 dacs that can do 0-10V
07:03 PM rifraf: use a pot
07:03 PM polprog: no
07:04 PM polprog: the tuning needs to be in a closed loop
07:04 PM rifraf: k
07:04 PM rue_mohr: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006323716472.html
07:04 PM rue_mohr: so, you know...
07:04 PM polprog: we have a pot now, and we dont even have a counter to tell if its more 8 or more 20GHz
07:04 PM rue_mohr: thats what I used in my 0.1-10MHz generator
07:04 PM rue_mohr: you just set the freq
07:04 PM rue_mohr: via serial
07:04 PM polprog: rue_mohr: i have the larger black ADF4351 board
07:05 PM rue_mohr: k
07:05 PM polprog: for other experiments ill be using that togenerate the frequency, and then use my dac board to generate the baseband signal and feed both to a mixer
07:05 PM rue_mohr: I was trying to make a 1MHz-10MHz VCO
07:05 PM polprog: If i get the maths right, i will be able to transmit different sound on two radio channels at the same time
07:06 PM rue_mohr: I gave up, 10x is way way too much range for a single oscillator
07:06 PM polprog: yeah
07:06 PM polprog: not even YIG can do it
07:06 PM rue_mohr: I use that module to generate 1-10MHz and then use 7490 to divide it down to lower ranges
07:07 PM polprog: thats sensible
07:07 PM rue_mohr: I came close when I used multiple RC stages in a delayline like thing
07:07 PM polprog: does it generate a sine or square
07:07 PM rue_mohr: but the closer I got to the 10:1 the less stable it was
07:07 PM rue_mohr: it can do both
07:07 PM rue_mohr: I use square
07:07 PM polprog: kk
07:08 PM rue_mohr: I dont recall how many samples the sine is
07:08 PM rue_mohr: 10?
07:08 PM polprog: oof
07:08 PM polprog: but maybe thats filter-able
07:08 PM rue_mohr: well, its been a while, check the datasheet
07:08 PM rifraf: from controller manual (custom gcode) -  M301 Corresponding input INTPU_1 determines that it is a low level to execute the next
07:08 PM rifraf: line, and the other side waits --- M401 corresponding to the input INTPU_1 determine the high level to execute the next
07:08 PM rifraf: line, no side has been waiting
07:08 PM polprog: for now ill just implement SCPI commands to set the dac voltages to what you tell it
07:08 PM rifraf: do you think that means i send a signal, but need to get a responce from an external source to confirm the action has happened?
07:09 PM polprog: then ill add something that keeps asking the counter MEAS:FREQ? and adjusts the voltage on a selected channel to make a loop
07:09 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, oh cool, like robot handshaking
07:10 PM rifraf: cool, for now will use these though. M101 corresponds to OUT_1 output high level (dummy high, convenient for different
07:10 PM rifraf: voltage pull-up resistors)
07:10 PM rifraf: M201 corresponds to OUT_1 output low level (perfusion 500ma to ground)
07:10 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, it sounds like its neant to be between two machines, so you only need one of the commands
07:10 PM rifraf: this is chinglish remember
07:10 PM rue_mohr: hmm
07:11 PM rue_mohr: my brain is a mess from my workday
07:11 PM rue_mohr: not gonna be able to process chinglish properly
07:11 PM polprog: i did a lot today
07:11 PM polprog: i think ill lay down
07:11 PM rifraf: ok, if you can look at the example on page 37, it looks almost perfect for what i need, https://www.lollette.com/support/pdf/CNC/SMC5-5.pdf
07:12 PM rifraf: G, M command combination case
07:13 PM polprog: night
07:13 PM rue_mohr: ok, what ar they on about here
07:13 PM rifraf: and M47 is neat, go back to the start of the gcode file and runs it endlessly, perfect for automated routine with bar feeder
07:13 PM rue_mohr: cool that it does interrobot communication
07:14 PM rifraf: yep am really happy with this controller, even if it is a few years old now
07:15 PM rue_mohr: M101 (open pneumatic A)
07:15 PM rue_mohr: M201 (Close Pneumatic A)
07:15 PM rifraf: yep, just a simple high on output 1
07:15 PM aandrew: https://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=35.%20Linux4004
07:15 PM rue_mohr: M301 (wait for start key trigger)
07:15 PM aandrew: this seems kind of up your alley
07:16 PM rue_mohr: heh, oh, the mips over 4004
07:16 PM rue_mohr: yea
07:16 PM rifraf: rue_mohr i guess the M301 is like rifraf yes i can confirm we have parted off succesfully@
07:17 PM rue_mohr: well wait
07:17 PM rue_mohr: what do you want an input for?
07:17 PM rifraf: but not waiting for me (apart from in testing)
07:17 PM rifraf: to confirm we are ready to rerun the code i guess
07:18 PM rue_mohr: so
07:18 PM rue_mohr: - stop motor
07:18 PM rue_mohr: - open chuck
07:18 PM rue_mohr: - activate pusher
07:18 PM rue_mohr: - time delay
07:18 PM rifraf: some optical sensore to confirm no material is poking out of chuck
07:18 PM rue_mohr: - deactivate pusher
07:18 PM rue_mohr: - close chuck
07:18 PM rue_mohr: - restart job
07:18 PM rue_mohr: hu?
07:19 PM rifraf: well what if bit broke and we did not part off the finished part, is going to get noisy
07:19 PM rue_mohr: hmm
07:20 PM rifraf: would like some failsafe interlocks
07:20 PM rifraf: and seems this controller will be up to the task
07:20 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, here'z yer yt list http://paste.debian.net/1363181/
07:21 PM rifraf: can put a light beacon tower ontop then, green light  i can keep chatting, red light, better go check machine, standard stuff
07:21 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, the pusher videos will be in there
07:21 PM Tom_L: i'd go from the bottom up
07:21 PM rue_mohr: bottom is the oldest?
07:22 PM Tom_L: latest
07:22 PM rue_mohr: no
07:22 PM rifraf: rue_mohr wow, am sure there would be a few good clips in that list
07:22 PM rue_mohr: remember all the videos rifraf posted when be started this project and they were all material pushers but not automaitic chucks?
07:23 PM rue_mohr: did the ffff universe fork again and I was the only one there?
07:24 PM rifraf: ok better go play a bit before i start on the beers ( in reality i will do both as usual :/ )
07:24 PM Tom_L: you took the wrong fork
07:24 PM Tom_L: better than tequila
07:25 PM rifraf: heh i finished the last of the tequila before 9am, had a minor stress out
07:25 PM rifraf: was only 2 shots
07:25 PM Tom_L: stress? you woke up in Au again???
07:25 PM rifraf: heh
07:26 PM Tom_L: goin to go r&r
07:26 PM rifraf: ok me back soon to
07:38 PM rifraf: heh you know how i got the MPG recently for about $60.  Well is identical to the one on $80K router at work, except i have extra estop and go button on mine
07:39 PM rifraf: same coiled wire, moulded box, handwheel and everything, i just have different connector to controller,
07:40 PM rifraf: so i know comes from same factory, is working well
07:41 PM rifraf: you need to hold in the go button on the side to make things move as well as turn the handwheel, is a bit of extra saftey i think
08:30 PM rifraf: ok stage 1 done, fet driver hooked direct to cnc controller, no more arduino or external psu, time to make some gcode
08:56 PM rifraf: nothin :/ , i hooked up 12v and 5V to wrong places, hopefully nothing dead
08:56 PM rifraf: controller is activating the outputs though
09:10 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, need some schematics or photos or something
09:10 PM rue_mohr: can never work out what your hookin up
09:14 PM rifraf: no happy jan
09:14 PM rifraf: i have no idea, looks like a killed another driver, has servo style inputs connectors, don't think t liked 12V
09:15 PM rue_mohr: where did you put the 12V?
09:15 PM rifraf: into the 5V of servo input connector
09:15 PM rue_mohr: show my which board this time
09:16 PM rifraf: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/32982064246.html
09:16 PM rifraf: the 4 channel
09:17 PM rifraf: tried to 2 inputs i was not using but still no joy
09:18 PM rue_mohr: lets see here, what did they make
09:19 PM rue_mohr: uhu..
09:19 PM rifraf: https://www.renesas.com/en/document/dst/ps2801-1-ps2801-4-data-sheet?srsltid=AfmBOopMpWwJ3DHo8wJ_kcZ-7u9yXmfYyUWtpHR6GB5cCZSEJSsCw2Am
09:19 PM rifraf: that the input chip
09:20 PM rue_mohr: uhu
09:20 PM rifraf: strange that all 4 would die, they appear to be isolated from each other
09:20 PM rue_mohr: yea, you have a different oops
09:20 PM rue_mohr: have a diode setting on your voltmeter?
09:20 PM rifraf: yep
09:21 PM rue_mohr: go between pins 1 and 2 on that chip, 2 +
09:21 PM rue_mohr: should say 1.2
09:21 PM rue_mohr: (open, but 1.2)
09:24 PM rifraf: seems to be open circiut both ways
09:24 PM rue_mohr: does it give votlage or just says open circuit
09:24 PM rue_mohr: because yes, "open circuit" is correct
09:24 PM rifraf: no voltage, have disconnected, now in front of me, will try again
09:24 PM rue_mohr: but, 3V open circuit is different from 1.2V open circuit
09:25 PM rifraf: just displays OL
09:25 PM rue_mohr: no, the meter needs to supply the voltage
09:25 PM rue_mohr: usually they will tell you the votlage drop
09:25 PM rue_mohr: yours doesn't seem to be that type
09:25 PM rue_mohr: it might still be fine
09:25 PM rifraf: tryie again never really tested a diode, should conduct in 1 direction though
09:26 PM rue_mohr: I'm completely sure it is, as it doesn't USE the + pin on the servo connector
09:26 PM rue_mohr: yea, but a normal diode should say 0.7V
09:26 PM rue_mohr: you need a diode tester that tells you the voltage
09:26 PM rifraf: k gonna try find a normal diode to test
09:26 PM rue_mohr: a shottkey will say short, but only one way casue its 0.2V drop
09:27 PM rue_mohr: so, I think you have open collector outputs on your controller
09:28 PM rue_mohr: whcih wont work with this unless your wire it special
09:29 PM rifraf: ah meter not in diode mode, brb
09:29 PM rue_mohr: drat, that manual you sent has no wiring info
09:29 PM rue_mohr: on the controller
09:30 PM rifraf: i can change the outputs from high to low etc
09:30 PM rifraf: ok 1V in one direction, open in other
09:30 PM rue_mohr: I like how they teach you how to hand code NC, thats quaint
09:30 PM rue_mohr: rifraf, yup, its fine then
09:31 PM rue_mohr: so, have a 9V battery with leads?
09:31 PM rifraf: yep
09:31 PM rue_mohr: I think your driver board has activation leds
09:31 PM rifraf: the board was working with the ardiono
09:31 PM rue_mohr: er, no, just the 1 channel
09:32 PM rue_mohr: yea
09:32 PM rue_mohr: the arduino ouputs are pushpull
09:32 PM rue_mohr: if you put a 9V from - to S on the input connector, it should activate the output
09:32 PM rifraf: each output has an led
09:32 PM rue_mohr: oh there they are
09:33 PM rue_mohr: but the power for the led is...
09:34 PM rue_mohr: is the load side
09:34 PM rifraf: yeah, i think i need to power it up as well
09:34 PM rue_mohr: do you have 12V on the 2 pin header of the load side?
09:34 PM rue_mohr: you do not need power on the + of the 3 pin input header
09:35 PM rifraf: ok
09:35 PM rue_mohr: the input just drives the led
09:35 PM rue_mohr: which means that open collector controllers (which are pretty standard) will not work on this without a pullup resistor
09:36 PM rue_mohr: but 9V between - and S should trigger the output just fine
09:40 PM rue_mohr: wtf..
09:40 PM rue_mohr: you would THINK the two boards are the same schematic
09:40 PM rue_mohr: and they are SO NOT
09:41 PM rifraf: ok, 9V on - and S triggers output led when i hook up 12v to the fet side
09:41 PM rifraf: does look ok
09:41 PM rue_mohr: yea
09:42 PM rue_mohr: find me a pdf for your controller that shows how the outputs work
09:42 PM rifraf: let me hook the valve up again and see that it triggers, brb
09:42 PM rue_mohr: sure sure
09:43 PM rue_mohr: is this autorouted?
09:44 PM rue_mohr: the designer was not seasoned, but
09:44 PM rue_mohr: I dont think its autorouted...
09:45 PM rue_mohr: component placement is horrid
09:47 PM rue_mohr: I think its partially autorouted...
09:48 PM rifraf: ok the driver board is ok, can trigger each valve with 9V on corresponding S pin
09:48 PM rue_mohr: yea
09:48 PM rue_mohr: find me a pdf for your controller that shows how the outputs work
09:48 PM rue_mohr: I think their open collector
09:49 PM rifraf: it took me a while to get the other outputs working for the servo controller
09:49 PM rifraf: I/O (16 optically isolated 10MA inputs, 8 optically isolated canisters flow500MAoutput)
09:50 PM rue_mohr: oh
09:50 PM rue_mohr: so you have 2 wires for each output?
09:50 PM rifraf: i have one wire to groung and another to the output pin
09:50 PM rue_mohr: oh
09:51 PM rue_mohr: wait, for each output or is there a common -?
09:51 PM rifraf: i believe so
09:51 PM rue_mohr: well post a photo
09:51 PM rifraf: look at connectors on page 1, second image
09:52 PM rue_mohr: cause if your sure that there is 2 terminals for each output and a common - for all of them then I'm up the creek
09:52 PM rifraf: am using OUT8 andOUT7 with a common ground
09:52 PM rue_mohr: I dont have that document rif
09:52 PM rifraf: OUT 1 , 2 and 3 already in use for AC servo
09:52 PM rue_mohr: image me!
09:52 PM rifraf: https://www.lollette.com/support/pdf/CNC/SMC5-5.pdf
09:52 PM rifraf: ok one min
09:54 PM rue_mohr: oh well
09:54 PM rue_mohr: "M101 corresponds to OUT_1 output high level (dummy high, convenient for different
09:54 PM rue_mohr: voltage pull-up resistors)"
09:54 PM rue_mohr: ye rif, its open collector
09:54 PM rue_mohr: you need a stuffin pullup resistor
09:54 PM rue_mohr: 1k, to 5V on the output
09:55 PM rifraf: https://desire3d.com/images/public/SMC5-1.JPG
09:55 PM rue_mohr: yea you need a pullup
09:55 PM rue_mohr: put a 1k resistor from OUTn to +5V
09:55 PM rue_mohr: then run that output and the gnd to your driver board
09:56 PM rifraf: really? ok i can do that i think, i threw out most of my components
09:56 PM rue_mohr: er hold up...
09:56 PM rue_mohr: wtf
09:57 PM rifraf: no room rue, figured i can rebuy what i need rather than trying to sort and keep them all
09:57 PM rue_mohr: god rif, thats a terrible image
09:57 PM rifraf: bit dark?
09:58 PM rue_mohr: pixels, all I can see is huge pixels
09:58 PM rifraf: ok will take a photo
09:58 PM rue_mohr: tells me this
09:58 PM rue_mohr: on your controller, that +5V on the bottom of the output connector, does it HAVE 5V on it to ground
09:59 PM rue_mohr: the image actully implies its a sourcing connector, which is odd
09:59 PM rue_mohr: the inputs seem to take a sinking sensor, and the outputs are sourcing...
09:59 PM rue_mohr: but
10:00 PM rue_mohr: why does the thing say "+5V - +12V ---->"
10:00 PM rue_mohr: implies an external source
10:00 PM rifraf: wait, i am not so fast
10:00 PM rue_mohr: sure sure
10:00 PM rifraf: the 5V currently is hooked up to the + on the servo input
10:00 PM rue_mohr: I'm diggin chineese mysteries
10:00 PM rue_mohr: no good
10:00 PM rue_mohr: lose it
10:01 PM rue_mohr: the + on the servo input goes nowhere
10:01 PM rue_mohr: its a dummy pin
10:02 PM rifraf: https://desire3d.com/images/public/output.jpg
10:02 PM rifraf: yep i understand that now
10:03 PM rifraf: is that what you wanted to see better?
10:04 PM rifraf: still want to to find a 1K Resistor?
10:04 PM rue_mohr: yea,a nd i can deal with it being upside down
10:04 PM rue_mohr: no, see
10:04 PM rifraf: yeah sorry
10:04 PM rue_mohr: the J +
10:05 PM rue_mohr: that says +5V ~ + 12V --->
10:05 PM rifraf: yeah
10:05 PM rue_mohr: yea, so
10:05 PM rue_mohr: the output voltage isn't defined
10:05 PM rifraf: wat is the J?
10:05 PM rue_mohr: J is the internal switch
10:06 PM rue_mohr: its an opto
10:06 PM rue_mohr: but here is the thing, see the battery
10:06 PM rifraf: yep
10:06 PM rue_mohr: I think the battery is the "+5V" on that connector
10:07 PM rue_mohr: with nothing else connected, is there 5V from the +5V to gnd on that controller?
10:07 PM rue_mohr: on that header?
10:07 PM rue_mohr: there may be, something else doesn't add up
10:08 PM rifraf: yep, i will check again now if you want, its just 5V out
10:08 PM rue_mohr: see there is a pin called "5-10V on the other header?
10:08 PM rue_mohr: see there is a pin called "5-10V" on the other header?
10:08 PM rue_mohr: or is that "0-10V" ?
10:08 PM rue_mohr: must be 0-10
10:09 PM rifraf: i use that for the AC servo speed control\
10:09 PM rifraf: 0-10V
10:09 PM rue_mohr: ok
10:09 PM rue_mohr: its not the mystery
10:09 PM rue_mohr: OH
10:09 PM rue_mohr: OHH
10:09 PM rue_mohr: I GET IT
10:09 PM rue_mohr: that output diagram is NOT the inside of the controller
10:09 PM rifraf: can take a pic of all the cannections i am currently using if that helps
10:09 PM rue_mohr: its YOUR circuit!
10:09 PM rue_mohr: NOW it all adds up
10:10 PM rue_mohr: yes, ok rif, we need the 1k
10:10 PM rifraf: yeah, i never quite understood the diagrams and what they are for
10:10 PM rifraf: ok looking now
10:10 PM rue_mohr: the 1k goes from +5V to OUTn on your output connector
10:10 PM rue_mohr: just a sec, I'll provide image
10:13 PM rifraf: ok found 1K on old breadboard
10:13 PM rue_mohr: good
10:13 PM rue_mohr: go from +5V to OUTn with it, connect OUTn and GND to driver
10:13 PM rifraf: ok will hook it up
10:15 PM rifraf: this might explain alot
10:15 PM rifraf: i need a 1K to each OUTn?
10:16 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1340045.jpg
10:16 PM rue_mohr: this is what they intended for people to do
10:16 PM rue_mohr: J is your device, but this does not work with your driver
10:17 PM rifraf: k brb
10:17 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1340046.jpg This is what were doing, the 1k provides a supply to drive the led on the output driver
10:18 PM rue_mohr: don't short 5V to the outputs, that could be bad
10:29 PM rifraf: ok rue done, you are a legend, thank you, i have air cylinders controlled from the cnc controller now :)
10:29 PM rue_mohr: :]
10:30 PM rue_mohr: did you see both images?
10:30 PM rue_mohr: ^^
10:30 PM rifraf: not yet
10:30 PM rue_mohr: well I drew 'em so be sure to look at 'em
10:30 PM rifraf: yes i did
10:31 PM rue_mohr: does J make sense now?
10:31 PM rifraf: gonna have to redo my other outputs now, have some didgy wiring to get the AC servo going
10:31 PM rifraf: but not today, too many beers to get to in depth
10:32 PM rifraf: J is the output load?
10:32 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:32 PM rue_mohr: and the battery is your own supply for it
10:32 PM rifraf: ok yep
10:32 PM rue_mohr: so your controller is the same as an open collector output
10:33 PM rifraf: i have a bigger question that has been buggin (shocking) me for months now
10:34 PM rifraf: everytime i touch the frame of the CNC machine i feel a high voltage, must be a bad earth i think
10:34 PM rifraf: everything works so i put up with it
10:34 PM rue_mohr: ground it thru an incadescent lamp
10:34 PM rifraf: and not sure how to test the voltage, i assume the frame is + or maybe ac, but touching ground of meter to the floor shows nothing
10:34 PM rue_mohr: if the lamp lights up, you have a bad fault
10:35 PM rue_mohr: if the votlage goes away, ground the frame better
10:35 PM rifraf: frame to light and other end to AC earth or DC ground
10:36 PM rue_mohr: frame to lamp, lamp to earth on plug
10:36 PM rue_mohr: there was a 3 pin verison of your funny plugs, right?
10:36 PM rifraf: 240V AC lamp or like car 12V globe?
10:36 PM rue_mohr: 240V ac lamp
10:36 PM rue_mohr: just incase
10:37 PM rue_mohr: the idea is to know if there is any current
10:37 PM rifraf: hrm, could be hard to find, but is old house, will see
10:37 PM rifraf: its annoying enough that i cannot leave soft skin of arm on it
10:38 PM rue_mohr: oooh whats for supper rue
10:38 PM * rifraf hands rue a supper beer
10:39 PM rifraf: go on you deserve it
10:39 PM rue_mohr: hahah
10:39 PM rue_mohr: yea, I'm avoiding a supper tea
10:42 PM rifraf: are you up for a while still?
10:43 PM rifraf: can show quick vid, sequence all wrong, or later will have a better sequence coded
10:43 PM rue_mohr: yes
10:43 PM rifraf: ok wil upload this for a start
10:43 PM rue_mohr: another 6 hours or so
10:43 PM rifraf: ok will upload this incorrect example now
10:44 PM rifraf: and later show a better one
10:47 PM * rue_mohr drinks his supper-tea
10:47 PM rifraf: got youtube sound fixed?
10:48 PM rifraf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgVimINTFUU
10:50 PM rifraf: why is it not a short that repeats i wonder?
10:50 PM rue_mohr: well yea ok
10:50 PM rue_mohr: but
10:50 PM rifraf: but but what?
10:50 PM rue_mohr: use a pusher not a gripper...
10:50 PM rue_mohr: :]
10:50 PM rifraf: i know its all wrong
10:50 PM rifraf: ok ok
10:50 PM rue_mohr: it looks great
10:52 PM rifraf: oddly i cannot feel the electric shock at moment, AC servo is unplugged. so i guess thats a clue
10:52 PM rue_mohr: ok
10:52 PM rue_mohr: china
10:52 PM rifraf: and the dodgy wiring i did to get it working, i did have to apply a positive voltage somewhere, i guess thats replacing the pullup resistor so will repair this week
10:53 PM rifraf: nono its me
10:53 PM rifraf: i could not get the outputs to work and hooked up 12V to where it was not needed, guess i am lucky it still works normally
10:54 PM rifraf: but have a couple of 1K resistors left, breadboard had LM324 and CM8870 on it, likely something we made back in the day
10:55 PM rue_mohr: the pullups can be 470 ohms to 2.2k depending on what your operating
10:56 PM rifraf: quad op amp and DTMF reciever, some wireless project
10:56 PM rue_mohr: well, probably as high as 10k in some cases
10:56 PM rue_mohr: heh
10:56 PM rifraf: ok but 1K sounds like a good start
10:56 PM rue_mohr: sure
10:57 PM rue_mohr: I'm just waitng for 1 meter to finish my power supply
10:57 PM rue_mohr: all the other parts have come in
10:57 PM rue_mohr: funny thing with the microwave transformer
10:58 PM rifraf: cool, wow i just got a saturday postman
10:58 PM rue_mohr: it SEEMS like it doesn't get hot if it has a load on it
10:59 PM rifraf: ist parcel boring, rod clevises i already rethreaded to get this going last week
10:59 PM rifraf: but will see how they perform and replace if threads wear out or save for next project
11:00 PM rue_mohr: Today I got some buttons I bought
11:00 PM rue_mohr: they are the same type of buttons I could get as a kid to make things
11:00 PM rifraf: second parcel just a tool holder that i will use at some point
11:01 PM rifraf: for those skinny 35° tool bits, had left and right versions and ordered a center one because i was bored, i do have a need for it, just forgot what
11:04 PM rifraf: you didn't find the bar pusher? i know it would help me part off closer to the chuck if no gripper pulling
11:04 PM rue_mohr: its a million vids rif, I didn't get thru the first two
11:04 PM rifraf: but will stick with this for the minute
11:04 PM rifraf: same
11:04 PM rue_mohr: its ALL YOU WERE POSTING VIDEOS OF at first
11:04 PM rue_mohr: they were ALL just material pushers
11:05 PM rifraf: oh i posted it?
11:05 PM rue_mohr: yea, lots of them
11:06 PM rifraf: guess i can look through my youtube history
11:06 PM rue_mohr: they weren't chuck grabbers they were all material pushers
11:06 PM rifraf: yep come along way since then
11:06 PM rifraf: in a pretty short timeframe
11:07 PM rifraf: i think it started by wanting a hydraulic chuck
11:18 PM rifraf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeu4EK9Bgr0
11:18 PM rifraf: i know that gave me an idea
11:19 PM rue_mohr: the other one is much easier
11:19 PM rue_mohr: thats just a pusher and use the bit as a stop
11:19 PM rue_mohr: cause its just a dumb pusher
11:19 PM rifraf: still looking, how many days have a wasted looking at youtube, so many many videos
11:19 PM rue_mohr: there was a bunch of them
11:19 PM rue_mohr: on non cnc lathes
11:22 PM rifraf: a real one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hXO55DUNQI
11:22 PM rue_mohr: I need to wake
11:22 PM rue_mohr: up
11:23 PM rifraf: this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le2rQ1Xb8u8
11:24 PM rue_mohr: thats one of them
11:25 PM rue_mohr: its just a pusher
11:25 PM rue_mohr: its just a dumb pusher
11:25 PM rue_mohr: they all were
11:35 PM rifraf: couldn't get much simpler than that
11:36 PM rifraf: awesome lathe and part off setup
11:37 PM rue_mohr: I'm frustrated that I dont do more things
11:37 PM rue_mohr: I cant pull togethor the energy
11:37 PM rue_mohr: mostly mentally
11:37 PM rifraf: did you see his pocket levels he makes and sells?
11:37 PM rue_mohr: huh, no
11:37 PM rifraf: and he packages the way i wanted to, glad i found this again
11:37 PM rue_mohr: its a bunch of work for me to get youtube open again
11:38 PM rifraf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjP3OOU7dI
11:38 PM rue_mohr: I can only use chromium and I have to close it or if I just leave it, it will lock my machine
11:38 PM rue_mohr: it leaks video card memory
11:39 PM rifraf: i posted
11:39 PM rue_mohr: the machine doesn't lock, the video card and keyboard stop working
11:39 PM rue_mohr: yea, sorry, not into starting it all back up again
11:39 PM rue_mohr: I'll catch it next time I have it open
11:42 PM rifraf: when are you going to get a simple $100 old dell with windows that just works
11:43 PM rue_shop2: when will the F***ing world stop being so stupid
11:43 PM rue_shop2: I would update the browser, but I cant because f***ing twats dont know what wysiwyg html edtors are
11:43 PM rifraf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HghpBb5VVcA
11:44 PM rue_shop2: try not to stack up too many
11:44 PM rue_shop2: youtube pisses me off with its ads and stuff
11:44 PM rifraf: i have never any ads
11:44 PM rifraf: would drive me nuts
11:45 PM rifraf: thats why i hate watching on phone
11:45 PM rue_shop2: yea, I dont feel like fighting a weekyl update battle just to not see ads on one site
11:45 PM rifraf: Adguard Adblocker FTW , serious
11:45 PM rifraf: i have never updated it
11:46 PM rifraf: it just works and works, till after many days if i run out of resources, then a reboot fixes it again
11:46 PM rue_shop2: no
11:46 PM rifraf: gonna see now if there is an android version
11:46 PM rifraf: yes
11:47 PM rue_shop2: I have all the major ad servers set to 127.0.0.1 in my network settings and it works for everything else
11:47 PM rue_shop2: I even had my machines set to serve a picture of a cat rolled up in a newspaper and it works quite well
11:48 PM rue_shop2: "oof, this is an 8 cat site"
11:48 PM rifraf: yes!!, with yandex it works
11:49 PM rifraf: no more ads on my phone, w00t
11:49 PM rifraf: and free from google spying
11:50 PM rifraf: much prefer the russians spying on me
11:53 PM rifraf: you should try yandex anyway, google also shows sponsored stupid results these days
11:53 PM rifraf: hopefully after phone reboot no more youtube ads
11:53 PM rifraf: every tried it?
11:54 PM rifraf: even try as your search page for a bit
11:56 PM rifraf: is there a linux version?
11:57 PM VanUnamed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0hypYunmwI
11:58 PM rifraf: heh i had that screensaver many moons ago