#garfield Logs
Nov 25 2023
#garfield Calendar
11:29 AM rue_mohr: hmm
01:28 PM rue_mohr: polprog, I'd like to get on the state machine stuff
01:28 PM rue_mohr: because I want to make a NN FSM
01:29 PM rue_mohr: because a NN is pretty much just a LUT for an FSM
02:52 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, I think a good goal would be to have a rotary axis it clamps in, and to do the profile with the other shaping too (for the head end) not sure how one would synchronize that, maybe the jigs would still be a thing
02:52 PM rue_shop3: (ponder)
02:52 PM rue_shop3: how debugging going?
02:53 PM polprog: rue_mohr: hm, i dont see how, care to elaborate?
02:53 PM polprog: the single neuron thing is a good excercise ground, since its just 1 equation
03:03 PM rue_shop3: see a relation between a LUT and a NN? (trained)
03:11 PM polprog: yes
03:25 PM rue_shop3: oh damn
03:25 PM rue_shop3: I think I just popped a blood vessel *in* my wrist
03:26 PM rue_shop3: what do I do with that...
03:26 PM rue_shop3: pressure pad I suppose...
03:27 PM Tom_L: how do you do that?
03:29 PM rue_shop3: I bumped it, felt funny, and its got a big purple bump
03:29 PM Tom_L: fpm
03:29 PM polprog: ouch, watch out for yourself
03:29 PM Tom_L: don't think rotary is the answer
03:31 PM rue_shop3: k
03:32 PM Tom_L: does grbl do rotary?
03:32 PM rue_shop3: yea, its got an A axis
03:32 PM rue_shop3: hmm
03:33 PM Tom_L: you'd still have to index both ends so they align
03:33 PM Tom_L: and hold the cut end while milling the 2nd one
03:33 PM Tom_L: nothing to hold to
03:49 PM rue_shop3: thats why I'm thinking that thru it all, those square jigs still apply
03:49 PM rue_shop3: I'm pondering a custom rotary that grabs that or indexes off it
03:50 PM rue_shop3: I did a few tubes to show you the current process
03:50 PM Tom_L: i can get you rotary code if you think you want it
03:51 PM Tom_L: i'm not going to do any until i get the cnc figured out and right now i'm not in the mood to do so
03:52 PM rue_shop1: ok
03:53 PM rue_shop1: nothing like a machine pissing ya off when you just wanted to use it :
03:53 PM rue_shop1: ]
03:54 PM Tom_L: my post will do rotary
03:55 PM rue_mohr: I'd have to build an axis, so lets hold and get things/this working
03:55 PM Tom_L: naw you need 1 more project
03:56 PM rue_mohr: heh
03:56 PM rue_mohr: I just need one interesting project, life above all else
03:56 PM Tom_L: i found papers on the shelf showing all the variables that affect joint following error and that's as far as i got with it the last time
03:56 PM rue_mohr: ok ready for some images?
03:57 PM rue_mohr: here we go...
03:57 PM rue_mohr: step 1, cut pipes to length+
03:57 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300041.jpg
03:57 PM rue_mohr: then bump with lathe and clean http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300042.jpg
03:57 PM rue_mohr: er, and clean off corner http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300043.jpg
03:58 PM Tom_L: you would do that in any process so that doesn't count for or against improvement
03:58 PM Tom_L: that can be done with a hand tool real quick
03:58 PM rue_mohr: mount 1 jig 12cm from end http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300044.jpg
03:58 PM Tom_L: oh from the saw marks?
03:58 PM rue_mohr: yea, the end gets cut clean on the lathe and then wipe the corner off with a file
03:59 PM rue_mohr: oh, I kinda missed a step, I do one end, then measure a length mark and do the other to get it to final size
03:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Deburring-Cutters/b?ie=UTF8&node=340035011
03:59 PM rue_mohr: I usually leave an extra 1/16" or more when I do the cut for cleaning
03:59 PM rue_mohr: yea, I only do the outside
04:00 PM Tom_L: unless the end it too rough and you true it up on the lathe
04:00 PM rue_mohr: the cut is pretty narly
04:00 PM rue_mohr: and my saw cuts crookid
04:00 PM rue_mohr: so thts part of why I clean the end on the lathe
04:00 PM rue_mohr: ok
04:00 PM rue_mohr: so, then that jig goes 12cm from the end
04:00 PM Tom_L: https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/81387/10002/-1?srsltid=AfmBOopHha9tDa7DLDrl51aX1Rp5S0pCoMexZDonskzOUlAvuCiiseyXDKI
04:01 PM Tom_L: save chucking it up in the lathe
04:01 PM Tom_L: you'd need a bigger one
04:01 PM rue_mohr: I'd need one to face and debug it tho
04:01 PM rue_mohr: I'd need one to face and debur it tho
04:01 PM Tom_L: ok i didn't know if you faced it
04:01 PM rue_mohr: yep, its faced and then I wipe it with a file to clean the corner off
04:02 PM Tom_L: carry on
04:02 PM rue_mohr: one end first, then measure length (and mark) then the do the other end to take it to length
04:02 PM rue_mohr: ok, jig on one end
04:02 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300045.jpg
04:03 PM rue_mohr: second jig goes on, again, 12cm from the end, and their aligned on the table
04:03 PM Tom_L: figured that
04:03 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300046.jpg (all done in batches)
04:03 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300047.jpg router, here I'm starting with the small bit
04:04 PM rue_mohr: goes in to the line on the fence
04:04 PM Tom_L: you should put a stop there instead of trying to stop at the line
04:04 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300048.jpg and thats one cut (repeat x7)
04:04 PM rue_mohr: its not so precise
04:04 PM rue_mohr: non critical
04:05 PM Tom_L: i figured
04:05 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300049.jpg then change bits on the router, this is the 15mm bit
04:05 PM Tom_L: the top and bottom slots don't align 180 out from each other
04:05 PM rue_mohr: they should be 180, but X error causes some fun
04:05 PM Tom_L: is the blue guide screwed to the board?
04:06 PM rue_mohr: yes
04:06 PM rue_mohr: it holes the tube down, the wood block holds it into the blue guide
04:06 PM rue_mohr: it holds the tube down, the wood block holds it into the blue guide
04:07 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300050.jpg there is a mark for "large bit, head end" stop
04:07 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300051.jpg flip the tube around and cut the handle to the "handle end stop" line
04:07 PM Tom_L: hope you wear safety glasses
04:08 PM rue_mohr: and ear muffs
04:08 PM rue_mohr: it loud and messy
04:08 PM Tom_L: huh?
04:08 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300052.jpg that results in the router cuts
04:08 PM rue_mohr: I have the shop vac sucking on the end of the tube at the top, but stuff still flies everywehre
04:09 PM Tom_L: it's actually pretty efficient
04:09 PM Tom_L: i think
04:09 PM rue_mohr: yea, I just did 7 tubes there
04:09 PM Tom_L: you're going to have as much setup on a cnc
04:09 PM Tom_L: and it will cut slower
04:10 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300054.jpg next is the slots, this is a jig for a small tablesaw, you stick up to 3 in at once and run it thru (1 pass)
04:10 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300055.jpg the tablesaw blade has been set just crookid enough to generate the right width cut (dato style)
04:10 PM Tom_L: if you put a guide on the blue guide for the slot they would stay aligned better
04:11 PM Tom_L: wrap the blue guide around the top of the tube a bit more and add a guide on the top
04:11 PM rue_mohr: the block snug into the corner, they jig blocks were meant to act as an end-stop, but chips get in there and mess it all up
04:11 PM Tom_L: then the only reason you need the squares is for end to end
04:12 PM rue_mohr: the handle and head need to be aligned
04:12 PM Tom_L: right
04:12 PM rue_mohr: for things like the 36" one, its not otherwise plausable to force the alignment
04:13 PM Tom_L: scratch my idea, i realized it wouldn't work
04:13 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300056.jpg
04:13 PM rue_mohr: boop stock
04:13 PM rue_mohr: I did all that routing today
04:13 PM rue_mohr: I have enough jig blocks for about 9 tubes at once
04:14 PM Tom_L: what holds the tubes in when you cut the slot?
04:14 PM Tom_L: vertical
04:14 PM rue_mohr: friction
04:14 PM rue_mohr: oh and also, the slotting jig uses the router slot to align it
04:15 PM Tom_L: i saw that
04:15 PM rue_mohr: ok
04:15 PM rue_mohr: thankfully its all managed to stay in alignment
04:15 PM Tom_L: the ONLY thing you would gain on a rotary would be the cut would always be perpendicular to the tube
04:16 PM rue_mohr: oh yea
04:16 PM rue_mohr: technically I dont want that... cause the part being inserted isn't
04:16 PM rue_mohr: oh, but wait
04:16 PM rue_mohr: there is one more process
04:16 PM rue_mohr: and its not efficient at all
04:17 PM rue_mohr: that stuff is the majority of the setup and work, but
04:17 PM Tom_L: move these to a sprayer folder for future reference later
04:17 PM rue_mohr: notice thats not what the head end of the sprayer tube looks like
04:17 PM rue_mohr: there are corners removed
04:17 PM Tom_L: where?
04:17 PM rue_mohr: mm
04:17 PM rue_mohr: the head end
04:17 PM rue_mohr: I'll go do one
04:18 PM Tom_L: where the A9 butts into the tube
04:26 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300057.jpg ok, so thats the head end of the tube to start
04:27 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300058.jpg this is a cut mark jig
04:27 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300059.jpg it locks in to set where the cuts go
04:27 PM rue_mohr: draw the edges with a pen
04:27 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300060.jpg tada
04:28 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300061.jpg bite one end of the line (just a bite)
04:28 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300062.jpg cut thru the other end, if it will otherwise use the bites like a seam to snap the corner off
04:28 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300063.jpg ala that
04:29 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300064.jpg repeat for other side
04:29 PM Tom_L: arbor press jig
04:29 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300065.jpg then proceed to the belt sander and sand like hell
04:29 PM rue_mohr: !? Ooo?
04:29 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1300067.jpg finale
04:30 PM rue_mohr: tell about arbour press jig
04:30 PM rue_mohr: like a sheer punch?
04:30 PM Tom_L: yes
04:30 PM Tom_L: \
04:30 PM rue_mohr: like a hole cutter?
04:30 PM Tom_L: right
04:30 PM rue_mohr: hmm
04:30 PM Tom_L: push the tube in and crunch
04:30 PM rue_mohr: cant quite envision how that'd go
04:31 PM rue_mohr: or how to make it...
04:31 PM Tom_L: but you will
04:31 PM rue_mohr: hahah
04:31 PM rue_mohr: overall, the sprayers are too much like work and I'd like to play for the rest of the day
04:31 PM Tom_L: got a 4jaw for the lathe?
04:31 PM rue_mohr: yes
04:32 PM Tom_L: make a square from steel with 2 holes. one for the tube and the other at a 90 for the punch
04:32 PM Tom_L: steel tube Hardened and sharpened with a 45 deg edge
04:32 PM rue_mohr: oh!
04:33 PM Tom_L: booyah!
04:33 PM rue_mohr: ok, if I make it a slot like cut for the tube, I dont need to worry about a cut support for the inside
04:33 PM rue_mohr: ah, or holesaw?
04:33 PM rue_mohr: wood jig w/holesaw in drillpress?
04:33 PM Tom_L: see i told ya...
04:34 PM Tom_L: you'll figure it out
04:34 PM rue_mohr: you seeded it! :)
04:34 PM rue_mohr: ok
04:34 PM rue_mohr: 3d print the block?
04:34 PM rue_mohr: then there could be a key for the slots
04:35 PM Tom_L: or something to run thru the table saw with the tube inside
04:35 PM rue_mohr: oh yea, I'v heard of using tablesaws for kinda milling like that
04:35 PM rue_mohr: bunch of 70'd stuff for making bowls
04:35 PM rue_mohr: bunch of 70's stuff for making bowls
04:36 PM rue_mohr: I envision streets of people who made all the popular mechanics books stuff every day
04:36 PM Tom_L: hole in a 2x4 in the right place for the tube and run it thru the saw
04:37 PM rue_mohr: "bobbys got a new gocart", sandra made a new birdhouse and uncle john is making bowls today
04:37 PM Tom_L: with a support for the tube
04:37 PM rue_mohr: oh it would be an X slide..
04:38 PM rue_mohr: ?
04:38 PM Tom_L: you could print a holder like you did for the slot to orient it and stop the tube end
04:38 PM rue_mohr: yea
04:38 PM rue_mohr: it would be nice to use a tool I'v already dedicated to the sprayers like that tablesaw
04:39 PM Tom_L: orient off the narrow slot or something
04:39 PM rue_mohr: mmm
04:39 PM rue_mohr: I'll ponder all these options
04:40 PM Tom_L: take what you did to mark the end to the next level
04:41 PM rue_mohr: I'v not digitized that jig, its a blank thats hand cut
04:42 PM rue_mohr: I feel great about makign that much progess on 14 tubes today
04:42 PM rue_mohr: I'll play with some cplds for the rest of the night
04:42 PM rue_mohr: oh, lunch...
04:42 PM rue_mohr: I want to assemble one of those jlcpcb boards
04:45 PM Tom_L: my surplus didn't have any tubes like that
04:45 PM Tom_L: all thickwall
04:56 PM rue_shop3: yea, it seems to be an odd size
04:56 PM rue_shop3: finding it here has been odd
04:56 PM rue_shop3: I'd love a name for it
04:57 PM rue_shop3: its frustrating, we once has a piece with a marking, the supplier wasn't in business anymore
05:00 PM rue_shop3: ok CPLD time
05:01 PM Tom_L: just thinwall 1" alum tube
05:03 PM Tom_L: .055 wall
05:04 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/FT-Diameter-Aluminum-Tubing-Temper/dp/B082H4HZ5X
05:42 PM aandrew: I found the cheapest source for din rail is actually digikey. not even amazon had a better price at smaller quantities
05:45 PM rue_shop1: heh, the cpld wouldn't program and it took me a minute to realize I'd compiled it for a different size cpld (100 pin instead of 64 pin)
05:46 PM rue_shop3: oh no
05:47 PM rue_shop1: the cpld is bad
05:50 PM aandrew: bad?
07:51 PM rue_mohr: yea, wont write
07:51 PM rue_mohr: its happened before, so I'm super careful to NOT assemble the whole board before testing it
07:52 PM rue_mohr: step 1 the chip goes in, step 2 I test jtag
08:22 PM Tom_L: heh
08:22 PM Tom_L: used cplds?
08:22 PM Tom_L: any write protection on them?
08:24 PM rue_mohr: of course their used!
08:24 PM rue_mohr: no, when you erase them it clears everything
09:46 PM rue_mohr: It's a 88i6745N :)
09:47 PM VanUnamed is now known as VanUnamed_
09:47 PM VanUnamed_ is now known as VanUnamed
10:46 PM aandrew: 88i6745N isn't a CPLD is it?
11:38 PM rue_shop3: no
11:38 PM rue_shop3: marvel controller
11:39 PM rue_shop3: polprog,
11:39 PM rue_shop3: you awake?