#garfield Logs
Jul 19 2023
#garfield Calendar
07:55 AM rue_mohr: polprog, I thought that was funny, I was like: wait, why does polprog come to mind when I see this?....
08:06 AM polprog: it was :D
08:06 AM polprog: it made me smile
08:06 AM polprog: :)
08:48 AM rue_mohr: not sure if all this oscilloscope music is real
08:52 AM polprog: what do you mean?
08:53 AM rue_mohr: I dont think it will all actually render on a scope
08:53 AM polprog: I know Jerobeam Fenderson does render on a scope cause ive done it myself
08:54 AM polprog: but often you need to have the lossless version of the tracks, playing mp3 or youtube will make it look distorted
08:54 AM rue_mohr: I was just being dragged thru some videos on youtube
05:25 PM aandrew: polprog: I don't know rp2040 assembly; what's the post about strlen indicating?
05:25 PM polprog: why would you need strlen in an ELF file that is supposed to toggle the gpio on and off
05:25 PM polprog: there are no strings there
05:26 PM polprog: :)
05:26 PM aandrew: polprog: I'm sure it's due to something in libc using it, or perhaps libc not -ffunction-sections'd
05:26 PM polprog: maybe
05:26 PM aandrew: that's usually how I end up with huge binaries for no good reason
05:26 PM polprog: i need to take apart the actual firmware file that goes onto the rp2040, see what really gets left
05:27 PM polprog: i wanted to try bare metal programming of it
05:27 PM aandrew: unrelated: I may be living in the US in a few months
05:27 PM aandrew: polprog: did you try linking with --specs=nosys and -nostdlibs (something like that, I don't remember the specific options)
05:28 PM polprog: i did not because i cant get my head around their cmake
05:28 PM polprog: ill have to come up with a simpler build system, so far ive been only building the examples
05:29 PM polprog: but i got mad because make -DSOMETHING=xyzzy did not actually set that macro
05:29 PM polprog: i was trying to change the default pin in the blink example via compile flags and it did not work...
05:29 PM polprog: not in the headspace to troubleshoot it right now
05:30 PM polprog: but gf and me are building a small board with the 2040 because of it's USB capabilities
05:36 PM aandrew: just don't use meson. one of the guys in my group is insisting on showing us how awesome it is and how much simpler it is than cmake and its... not. it's all the complexity of cmake with about 1/3 the functionality, AND it needs you to hide .meson files in all the subdirectories like some kind of deranged easter bunny
05:36 PM aandrew: I can understand these bigger "build systems" for cross compilation or fairly complex projects but for most of this stuff... just why
05:37 PM polprog: i will just use Make, it will be literally a few .c files to build
05:37 PM polprog: I am making a small experiment where im editing the assembly gcc produces, with a script, and guess what
05:37 PM polprog: that will still be automated with make
05:43 PM polprog: i will post it some day, it is fairly interesting
05:43 PM polprog: night!
05:44 PM polprog: o7
06:50 PM rue_mohr: cast pullies
06:50 PM rue_mohr: fix truck
06:52 PM Tom_L: did you get the step timing right for the screws?
07:38 PM rue_mohr: ?
07:38 PM rue_mohr: step/mm?
07:54 PM Tom_L: you said it was 5tpi instead of 5mm pitch
07:54 PM rue_mohr: yes
07:54 PM rue_mohr: the dial indictor said it was not 5mm
07:54 PM rue_mohr: upon a few test moves
07:54 PM Tom_L: so you fixed the timing to match what you have
07:54 PM Tom_L: scale?
07:54 PM Tom_L: whatever grbl calls it
07:54 PM rue_mohr: scale :)
07:56 PM Tom_L: wish i had a cable with about 4-6 pairs of stranded wire in it (bigger than cat5)
07:57 PM Tom_L: i'd swap my limit switch plug out for a DB9
07:57 PM rue_mohr: ah, yes, I should go find wire for a new machine cable
07:57 PM rue_mohr: I was pondering using a db37, but there is already a db25 hole
07:57 PM Tom_L: i had a trunk line i ran from the house to the garage i've used for various things
07:57 PM rue_mohr: :)
07:57 PM Tom_L: i forget how many pairs that had
07:58 PM Tom_L: i'm not even sure i'm using those wires now
07:59 PM Tom_L: maybe 22awg in 6 pairs shielded
08:01 PM Tom_L: https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/belden-8106-24-awg-6-pair-low-capacitance-computer-cable-for-eia-rs-232-422-overall-braid-shield
08:01 PM Tom_L: it would be a big mess to rewire it all though
08:02 PM Tom_L: cleaner but quite a job
08:02 PM Tom_L: the stuff i used was aircraft surplus wire so i know it's really good wire
08:03 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/small_probe7_small.jpg
08:03 PM Tom_L: that stuff
08:04 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/Final_Wiring3.jpg
08:07 PM Tom_L: 20ga would be heavy enough
08:10 PM Tom_L: no, bigger number smaller wire... 26
08:10 PM Tom_L: https://nassaunationalcable.com/products/belden-1212a-26-awg-6-conductors-duofoil-shield-pvc-jacket-black-instrumentation-medical-elec-interconnect-computer-cable
08:14 PM Tom_L: expensive crap
08:19 PM rue_shop3: style 2464
08:20 PM rue_shop3: 26awg
08:24 PM rue_shop3: max loop 0.2R
08:25 PM rue_shop3: length, hmm, 1m?
08:27 PM rue_shop3: 1.5m
08:28 PM rue_shop3: ok, I probably want 22awg min
08:29 PM rue_shop3: existing is 20
08:58 PM Tom_L: that's alot cheaper
08:59 PM Tom_L: 26 seems a bit small for limit switches
09:01 PM Tom_L: i have a spool of solid
09:02 PM Tom_L: used to have a spool of alarm wire.. wonder what size that was
09:04 PM rue_shop2: solid is trouble
09:04 PM Tom_L: i know
09:04 PM Tom_L: this stuff i got is hard to beat but i wish i had a length of 6 pairs of it
09:04 PM Tom_L: instead of a pile of 2 conductor all going into one plug
09:05 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Control2.jpg
09:05 PM Tom_L: all the orange on the right
09:06 PM Tom_L: they need something clamping them to the plug itself. wrong kind of plug there
09:08 PM Tom_L: that plug was on the sherline control box so i found the molex mating part for it instead of replacing it
09:30 PM rue_mohr: huh, they were right, the left steering arm is rusting off
09:30 PM rue_mohr: well, apart
09:30 PM rue_mohr: its got kinda a big cut across it
09:31 PM rue_mohr: enough metal to hold, but not for years
09:31 PM rue_mohr: about $2000 to fix, but honestly, all the prices and procedures in the list were reasonable
09:51 PM Tom_L: you can change that yourself
09:51 PM Tom_L: steering links?
09:51 PM rue_shop3: the top pivoting arm
09:51 PM Tom_L: they sell the ball ends and all you need is a U fork to hammer them apart
09:51 PM rue_shop3: that holds the top of the wheel bearing
09:51 PM Tom_L: upper A arm?
09:51 PM rue_shop3: yup
09:51 PM Tom_L: that's what i had to do on mine
09:52 PM Tom_L: forget if it was upper or lower or both but i did it
09:52 PM rue_shop3: the shop has re-alightment and all that in there for the price
09:52 PM Tom_L: that's still alot
09:52 PM rue_shop3: one upper is half cut with a rust line
09:52 PM rue_shop3: ~100/hr which is about right
09:52 PM Tom_L: the metal arm or the bushings?
09:52 PM rue_shop3: $250 ea for the arms, which doesn't sound too crazy
09:52 PM rue_shop3: the metal arm
09:53 PM Tom_L: i just replaced the bushings on mine
09:53 PM rue_shop3: its got a slot rusted thru it
09:53 PM rue_shop3: the edges are solid
09:53 PM Tom_L: that was one of those harbor freight one time buy tool things
09:53 PM rue_shop3: :)
09:53 PM Tom_L: remember when i told you i took the springs out?
09:53 PM rue_shop3: yup
09:54 PM Tom_L: they're hard to get back in
09:54 PM rue_shop3: ;) yup
09:54 PM Tom_L: you gonna have a new truck pretty soon
09:54 PM rue_shop3: I'm not set up for automotive stuff, so they would handle problems better
09:54 PM rue_shop3: yea...
09:54 PM Tom_L: how's the body for rust?
09:54 PM Tom_L: the cab mounts..
09:55 PM Tom_L: i did that on mine
09:55 PM rue_shop3: the holders for the rear suspenstion bumpers are in rough shape corrosion wise
09:55 PM rue_shop3: one cab mount washer is gone
09:55 PM Tom_L: so is it worth the 2k to fix this?
09:55 PM rue_shop3: more than 2k to get anything else
09:56 PM Tom_L: just so the hole in the bucket isn't bigger than the spicket filling it
09:56 PM rue_shop3: :) yea I know
09:56 PM Tom_L: i'm gettin too old to do that crap now anyway
09:56 PM Tom_L: i probably could
09:56 PM Tom_L: it would take me longer
09:57 PM rue_shop3: I could too, but if I ran into problems it would take about 1 week/problem
09:58 PM Tom_L: no jobs tomorrow
09:59 PM rue_shop3: is ti nice to get breaks?
09:59 PM Tom_L: yeah but i can't have too many
10:00 PM rue_shop3: https://www.amazon.ca/TUOFENG-Gauge-Electrical-Extension-Single/dp/B0793MSGYZ/ref=sr_1_20
10:00 PM rue_shop3: ?
10:00 PM rue_shop3: Tom_L, your expenses cant be too crazy now eh?
10:00 PM Tom_L: bad enough
10:00 PM Tom_L: kids help out but they both just got new trucks
10:01 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/trucks/Trucks_2.jpg
10:01 PM rue_shop3: yea I see lots of it up here
10:02 PM Tom_L: not your average work truck price
10:02 PM Tom_L: but they both work hard
10:02 PM rue_shop3: everyone up here drives big expensive pickups
10:03 PM Tom_L: nice for me to get into. the hondas were kinda low to the ground
10:03 PM Tom_L: she's still got a honda
10:03 PM Tom_L: 2020
10:03 PM rue_shop3: shoudl I get the flat wire?
10:03 PM Tom_L: why?
10:03 PM rue_shop3: motors
10:03 PM Tom_L: no
10:03 PM Tom_L: you want shielded for that
10:03 PM rue_shop3: single conductor then?
10:03 PM rue_shop3: for the mtoors?
10:03 PM rue_shop3: why...
10:03 PM Tom_L: yessir
10:04 PM Tom_L: stepper noise
10:04 PM rue_shop3: yea, they make the noise
10:04 PM rue_shop3: shield the other stuff
10:04 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/Wire2.jpg
10:04 PM Tom_L: i shielded everything
10:04 PM Tom_L: that's what i used on my motors
10:04 PM rue_shop3: yep
10:05 PM rue_shop3: I need a 16 to 20 conductor motor cable
10:05 PM rue_shop3: + sensors stuff
10:05 PM Tom_L: still stuffing it all in one connector?
10:05 PM Tom_L: you may regret that for noise
10:05 PM rue_shop3: and I dont have anything that big that multiconductor here
10:05 PM Tom_L: find some of those din connectors i used
10:05 PM Tom_L: they're not that much
10:06 PM rue_shop3: I'm going to go for the db25
10:06 PM rue_shop3: one connector
10:06 PM Tom_L: 4 cond per motor
10:06 PM Tom_L: i think that's a bad idea
10:06 PM rue_shop3: I know they are dodgy on capacity, but in all the stories none ever failed
10:06 PM Tom_L: i'd at least use 2, one for signal and one for power
10:06 PM rue_shop3: not even on my old machine where most of the voltage drop is on the wire
10:07 PM Tom_L: current is a concern but mostly for noise
10:07 PM rue_shop3: I'v rarely had noise issues
10:07 PM rue_shop3: tho dont expect cell receptiopn here
10:07 PM Tom_L: just hope i don't have to say i told you so :)
10:08 PM rue_shop3: ;)
10:08 PM rue_shop3: this cable is just to a breakout
10:08 PM rue_shop3: it goes 5 ways at the breakout
10:09 PM rue_shop3: X, Y, Z, spindle, and ....
10:09 PM rue_shop3: hmm
10:09 PM Tom_L: limits
10:09 PM Tom_L: pendant
10:09 PM Tom_L: coolant
10:09 PM Tom_L: estop
10:09 PM rue_shop3: pendant goes right to the controller
10:09 PM rue_shop3: estop is off Y line
10:10 PM Tom_L: i put an estop on the control box and i have used it
10:10 PM rue_shop3: yep
10:10 PM Tom_L: shuts off all the enables
10:10 PM rue_shop3: I'm not sure where to put the control box yet
10:10 PM Tom_L: i put mine on the wall
10:10 PM rue_shop3: I like that e=-stop on the front of the machine like that
10:10 PM rue_shop3: its hard to type with this big bandaid on my finger
10:11 PM rue_shop3: 20awg power cord?
10:11 PM rue_shop3: I wonder...
10:11 PM Tom_L: 16
10:12 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Control_Pannel2.jpg
10:12 PM Tom_L: that's with the estop added
10:13 PM Tom_L: that box is heavy btw
10:13 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Control_Pannel1.jpg
10:13 PM Tom_L: overall layout
10:13 PM Tom_L: mini itx is on the shelf to the right
10:13 PM rue_shop2: I could foil the cable myself if i needed to
10:14 PM Tom_L: would be messy
10:14 PM rue_shop2: 18 is the smallest power cord I have here, I dont think I ever see smaller
10:14 PM rue_shop2: I want one cable
10:14 PM rue_shop2: so I have to make it myself anyhow
10:14 PM rue_shop2: I'm frustrated that I dont have enough wire tho
10:14 PM Tom_L: i was scrounging on mine
10:15 PM Tom_L: that's why it looks like crap inside the box
10:15 PM Tom_L: but it runs rock solid
10:15 PM rue_shop2: I have some elevator cable, but its too big
10:15 PM Tom_L: i've broken a couple connector pins but that's from moving things around too much
10:15 PM rue_shop2: 18awg I think
10:15 PM Tom_L: had to fix the pendant wires inside a couple times
10:16 PM rue_shop2: mmm my pendant is serial
10:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Control2.jpg
10:16 PM rue_shop2: 4c, with a tel cable
10:16 PM Tom_L: it's not quite that messy now, most of the door stuff is gone
10:16 PM Tom_L: but i have every wire accounted for on paper
10:18 PM rue_shop2: I should just buy the wire
10:18 PM Tom_L: local place just happened to have that motor wire
10:19 PM rue_shop2: 16c if I do xyz
10:19 PM rue_shop2: 20c if I do xyza
10:20 PM Tom_L: you don't have room for A on the table i doubt
10:20 PM rue_shop2: hmm
10:20 PM rue_shop2: I could probably fit something if I really tried
10:21 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Control_Pannel1.jpg
10:21 PM Tom_L: takes up alot of space
10:21 PM rue_shop2: I think the 2nd machine I made had an A provision right from the start
10:21 PM rue_shop2: hmm
10:21 PM rue_shop2: have you seen the one I made?
10:21 PM Tom_L: not that i remember
10:23 PM rue_shop2: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc/p1100587.jpg
10:24 PM rue_shop2: see the wood box?
10:24 PM rue_shop2: with the two 4 jaw chucks?
10:24 PM rue_shop2: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc/p1100589.jpg hard right
10:26 PM Tom_L: ahh yeah
10:28 PM Tom_L: all the chips are kinda hard on those rails & bearings
10:28 PM Tom_L: i see the pile of latches too
10:28 PM rue_mohr: :)
10:29 PM Tom_L: ahh you have that set up on it then
10:29 PM rue_mohr: that was orig built in...
10:29 PM Tom_L: i recognize the fixture
10:29 PM rue_mohr: 97?
10:29 PM rue_mohr: :)
10:29 PM Tom_L: or was that before i sent you the edit
10:29 PM Tom_L: i dunno
10:30 PM rue_mohr: edit?
10:30 PM rue_mohr: dont recall
10:31 PM Tom_L: no pics online that i can find
10:31 PM rue_mohr: I'm supposed to be gradually upgrading that one
10:31 PM rue_mohr: its half way to getting bipolar drivers and grbl
10:32 PM Tom_L: was that one your custom 'gcode' thing?
10:32 PM rue_mohr: its crazy tall so I can mount wood boxes in it and do patterns on them
10:32 PM rue_mohr: yes
10:33 PM rue_mohr: the path is just back and forth and down
10:33 PM rue_mohr: it was not designed for aluminum and does NOT like it
10:33 PM Tom_L: heh
10:33 PM rue_mohr: the spindle chatters all over the place when its cutting
10:33 PM rue_mohr: like, the motor and everything
10:33 PM rue_mohr: its a weed eater motor
10:34 PM rue_mohr: with a feedback speed controller
10:34 PM Tom_L: you made parts with it
10:34 PM rue_mohr: the feedback is that little motor forward of it, driven by a band off the chuck
10:34 PM rue_mohr: when it snaps the motor goes to 100%
10:35 PM rue_mohr: just the slotting
10:35 PM Tom_L: is that the plastic fixture i sent the pattern for?
10:35 PM rue_mohr: yes
10:35 PM Tom_L: you printed one to hold those
10:35 PM rue_mohr: yup
10:35 PM Tom_L: mine was metal
10:36 PM Tom_L: i nearly forgot about that
10:36 PM rue_mohr: its fun to align in that machine
10:36 PM rue_mohr: when you boot it, it zeros the machine
10:36 PM rue_mohr: jogging to position takes it about 2 minutes
10:36 PM rue_mohr: unipolar driven steppers on a parallel port
10:37 PM rue_mohr: the motor supply is 12V and about 3.x volts get to the motors with all the transistor and wire drop
10:38 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/Extra/A12_softjaws.jpg
10:38 PM Tom_L: found it
10:38 PM rue_mohr: if I'd come up with the CAD/CAM I started in ~1998 I would have been abel to do amazing things with it
10:38 PM rue_mohr: I started one in QBASIC but didn't know how to attack it all
10:39 PM rue_mohr: I didn't really have the notion of seperating the cad and cam
10:40 PM rue_mohr: ok, well, I was kinda useless today..
10:40 PM rue_mohr: made a mess and dont have the wire to finish
10:41 PM rue_mohr: I should just buy that single conductor
10:41 PM Tom_L: new printer cable should be here tomorrow then i can get rid of that gender changer setup from pc to control
10:41 PM rue_mohr: it'll arrive in a few days and I can make the cable
10:41 PM rue_mohr: did you just need a parallel printer cable?
10:41 PM rue_mohr: or a db25-db25?
10:41 PM Tom_L: DB25M -> DB25F
10:42 PM rue_mohr: drat, I have all that
10:42 PM Tom_L: 6'
10:42 PM rue_mohr: too bad were not closer
10:42 PM rue_mohr: ah, mine are like 10-15'
10:42 PM Tom_L: i should have but couldn't find one
10:42 PM Tom_L: i have some long ones too
10:42 PM Tom_L: just happen to be the wrong ends
10:42 PM rue_mohr: ok I'm buying some damn wire
10:43 PM Tom_L: i still got at least a roll of that 10 cond ribbon i used on my programmers
10:43 PM Tom_L: i stripped 4 wires off it to get 6
10:43 PM rue_mohr: out of all the scounged stuff, why dont I have enough 20awg!?
10:43 PM Tom_L: the local guy that closed had piles of that stuff
10:45 PM Tom_L: sprinkler wire and thermostat wire are both solid core
10:57 PM rue_mohr: I'm going to set up some more verticle storage in the shop
10:58 PM rue_mohr: I thoguht I had a lead of a file cabinet today but it was already spoken for
10:58 PM Tom_L: tall one?
10:59 PM Tom_L: those come up surplus here sometimes
11:45 PM rue_shop3: they get rid of them all the time aeround where I work