#garfield Logs
Feb 08 2023
#garfield Calendar
12:36 AM ruenahcmohr: 4514
12:51 AM ruenahcmohr: 4513! I caught it going down!!!!
04:47 AM Tom_L: i'd say quite a bit
04:48 AM Tom_L: i can run at 'recomended' speed/feed
04:48 AM Tom_L: on the low end of it anyway
04:49 AM Tom_L: not 'production' speed
09:37 AM ruenahcmohr: production is usually with flood cooling isn't it?
10:57 AM Tom_L: usually
10:57 AM Tom_L: in some cases it is no coolant, it just depends on what they're cutting and the inserts they use
10:58 AM ruenahcmohr: I wonder if I'd ultimitly reduce the wear on the machine and bits if I added coolant
10:58 AM ruenahcmohr: and sped it up
10:58 AM ruenahcmohr: when I came up with 90mm/min I was quite carefully tuning it in
10:59 AM Tom_L: yes
10:59 AM ruenahcmohr: that is as fast as I could go with no coolant
10:59 AM ruenahcmohr: even at this, the plate comes out warm
11:00 AM ruenahcmohr: I suppose that bit might be getting dull too
11:00 AM ruenahcmohr: sometimes I come back and their just broken off
11:01 AM ruenahcmohr: helping my uncle today with some electrical
11:01 AM Tom_L: i did some tests on mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzO8H6tKW8
11:01 AM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYk5it401so
11:01 AM Tom_L: the 2nd one was right on the edge of too much
11:01 AM Tom_L: but that was no coolant iirc
11:02 AM ruenahcmohr: ah
11:02 AM Tom_L: but that was a roughing cutter too
11:02 AM Tom_L: designed for material removal
11:02 AM ruenahcmohr: my compressor cant handle a lot of flow
11:02 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:03 AM ruenahcmohr: I have not set up the mister I got on anything
11:03 AM ruenahcmohr: I was supposed to set it up on the lathe
11:03 AM Tom_L: makes a mess but makes a difference
11:04 AM ruenahcmohr: well, the coolant I'm using is still just a mix of water, soap and oil
11:08 AM Tom_L: but it helps right?
11:11 AM ruenahcmohr: yup
11:12 AM ruenahcmohr: I'm not sure if just using water would be ok too
11:12 AM ruenahcmohr: the hesitation is in regards to corrosion
11:12 AM Tom_L: may need a little soap mixed in
11:12 AM Tom_L: that's why i use regular coolant, less prone to that
11:13 AM ruenahcmohr: the soap makes it harden up when it dries
11:13 AM Tom_L: yeah you gotta keep things cleaned off
11:13 AM ruenahcmohr: yea, I still need to find a descent place to get it
11:13 AM Tom_L: hard to find coolant in small quantities
11:27 AM ruenahcmohr: I wonder if I should start a 'coolant factory' where I buy a tote and rebottle it up in 4L jugs
11:27 AM ruenahcmohr: we have a few of those 'factories' around here,
11:32 AM aandrew: does coolant have a useful lifetime or can you more or less reuse it indefinitely as long as you filter the crap out of it?
11:32 AM aandrew: what do businesses usually get charged to dispose of used coolant?
11:33 AM ruenahcmohr: it evaporates, you dont get rid of it?
11:34 AM Tom_L: you can use it until it becomes so contaminated you have to change it
11:34 AM Tom_L: for flood. mist is pretty much once and done
11:36 AM Tom_L: you have to change the tanks out every so often
11:37 AM Tom_L: even with skimmers and filters
11:38 AM Tom_L: the concentrate is roughly 4oz per gal
11:49 AM ruenahcmohr: ooo I could have a mixdown factory?
11:49 AM ruenahcmohr: just like pepsi!
11:57 AM Tom_L: at the screw machine place i worked at, they had big spinners they would spin the oil out of the chips to reuse it since it was regular cutting oil
11:58 AM Tom_L: i recover some coolant from chips but not alot
02:51 PM rue_shop3: just starting cutting head #6
06:35 PM Tom_L: good you're not charging machine hours on those :)
06:35 PM rue_shop3: yea
06:41 PM Tom_L: are you gonna be basically 'maintenance' at the new job?
06:41 PM rue_shop3: yup
06:41 PM rue_shop3: kinda what I was anyhow
06:41 PM Tom_L: better perks?
06:42 PM rue_shop3: the 20% hours cut I had in the last job was an antiperk
06:42 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:42 PM Tom_L: and they probably already know you
06:43 PM rue_shop3: most of the people there think I already work there
06:43 PM Tom_L: heh
07:37 PM WormFood: I just bought an $8 EPROM eraser....sorta....it wasn't sold to erase EPROMs, but it works for that. :D
07:47 PM aandrew: fingernail lamp?
07:52 PM ruenahcmohr: hopefully not LED
07:52 PM ruenahcmohr: cause from what I can tell NO led source can erase them
08:38 PM aandrew: I haven't checked to see what the energy output from a good UV LED is like compared to a bulb, I have used some REALLY strong LEDs for curing applications
08:53 PM Tom_L: i bet the uv lamps i used for my programmer would work
08:54 PM aandrew: you program with UV light? that's badass
08:55 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch_cure.jpg
08:55 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch.jpg
09:02 PM aandrew: ahhh programmer enclosure
09:03 PM aandrew: I gotta pick your brain about your process at some point, busier than a one eyed cat watching two mouse holes these days
09:32 PM WormFood: aandrew, it's not a "fingernail" lamp, but something similar.
09:33 PM WormFood: ruenahcmohr, this one does a fine job at erasing EPROMS. I'm really impressed. There are 4 LEDs. 2 on top, and 2 on bottom.
09:33 PM WormFood: I put the 2 EPROMs on the bottom, upside down, with the LED shining right into the EPROM's window. I put others, facing up. I didn't expect much from the ones facing up, but they were able to erase quite a bit (not fully)
09:34 PM WormFood: I do intend to gut this, and make it into something more convenient to use, but it can erase 4 EPROMs at a time, and some are erased quite quickly, like under 10 minutes.
09:34 PM WormFood: I've had some erase as fast as 4 minutes.
09:35 PM ruenahcmohr: aandrew, money checker?
09:35 PM ruenahcmohr: huh
09:35 PM WormFood: I got a UV-C tester, and it does in fact reflect that this is putting out UV-C
09:36 PM WormFood: a money checker is just regular UVA, and that will not erase an EPROM
09:36 PM ruenahcmohr: I'v never really checked the minimum time for my UV-C steralizer bulb, I just leave them for a half hour or so
09:36 PM ruenahcmohr: huh
09:36 PM ruenahcmohr: even if you peel off the coating?
09:37 PM WormFood: You can get UVA to erase some, but probably won't erase everything (it does give it a random effect, where bits will toggle, without any light on them)
09:38 PM WormFood: I'm not sure about UV-B. That would erase better than UV-A, but not as efficient. UV-C is best for erasing, and the most harmful to our bodies.
09:38 PM WormFood: I'm not sure which coating you're referring to peeling off.
09:38 PM ruenahcmohr: the translucent purple one over the bulb
09:39 PM Tom_L: mine were from a fishtank
09:39 PM WormFood: There is none. It's a bare UV-C LED
09:39 PM Tom_L: dunno what spectrum
09:39 PM ruenahcmohr: in the money checker
09:39 PM ruenahcmohr: I had a few bulbs from one and they had a coating
09:39 PM WormFood: Money checker is UV-A
09:39 PM ruenahcmohr: and whats it when you peel off the coating?
09:39 PM WormFood: Probably nothing.
09:40 PM WormFood: That layer gets excited, and produces the UV....right?
09:40 PM ruenahcmohr: that would be full uv then
09:40 PM ruenahcmohr: no
09:40 PM ruenahcmohr: the arc in the bulb is uv
09:40 PM WormFood: I don't think that's a filer, but I could be wrong.
09:40 PM WormFood: Most bulbs don't produce UV-C in any quantities, unless they're designed for it.
09:40 PM ruenahcmohr: normal light bulbs have a internal lining that glows white with the UV
09:40 PM WormFood: UV-C is always more expensive than UV-A
09:40 PM Tom_L: https://www.waveformlighting.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ultraviolet-c-graphic.png
09:40 PM Tom_L: range
09:41 PM ruenahcmohr: but, to get good UV you need a quartz tube
09:41 PM WormFood: I bought 100 UV-A LEDs, for the same cost as a single UV-C LED.
09:41 PM ruenahcmohr: heh
09:41 PM ruenahcmohr: I was buying a bunch to try to find any kinda uv
09:41 PM ruenahcmohr: turns out most of them are just purple
09:41 PM WormFood: Even a single UV-C LED, is almost as expensive as my sterilizer.
09:41 PM WormFood: And I get 4 UV-C LEDs with that.
09:41 PM ruenahcmohr: makes sense
09:41 PM WormFood: So, I just bought it for parts.
09:42 PM Tom_L: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/led-uv-200nm.html
09:42 PM WormFood: I know this is cheap crap. But, to be fair, they usually sell for at least $25
09:42 PM aandrew: I haven't used an actual EPROM for probably 15 years
09:43 PM Tom_L: my first pic or maybe avr was uv i forget which one
09:43 PM WormFood: I know you see those low prices on those links on alibaba, but check them out. That is for UV-A. What's the best price you can find for a proper UV-C?
09:43 PM WormFood: I've never seen any AVR with a window.
09:43 PM aandrew: yep I had EPROM PICs too
09:44 PM WormFood: Not to say they don't exist, but I've been into AVRs since the AT90S8515 and AT90S2313 days, and never seen nor heard of any AVR with EPROM memory
09:44 PM Tom_L: yeah i just couldn't recall which it was
09:44 PM ruenahcmohr: aliexpress.com/item/1005004434232804.html
09:44 PM Tom_L: most likely pic
09:44 PM WormFood: I'd bet a duck that it's PIC
09:44 PM ruenahcmohr: not sure what those are yet
09:45 PM Tom_L: couldn't find that page here
09:45 PM WormFood: Those look like a page not found
09:45 PM ruenahcmohr: ?
09:45 PM ruenahcmohr: mine?
09:45 PM Tom_L: uh huh
09:45 PM WormFood: your last link
09:45 PM ruenahcmohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004434232804.html
09:45 PM aandrew: just found this: https://atmelcorporation.wordpress.com/2014/08/25/more-avr-history-with-vegard-wollan/
09:46 PM Tom_L: same result
09:46 PM WormFood: That aliexpress link is still MIA (404)
09:46 PM aandrew: "That is what Vegard realized back in the early 1990s: You could make a microcontroller using Flash memory and reprogram in seconds, not hours. Atmel already had a Flash 8051-style micro, so we were a natural to develop the AVR chips."
09:47 PM aandrew: it sounds like AVR was never anything but flash
09:48 PM WormFood: I could see maybe very early prototypes being eeprom, but I feel it's extremely unlikely.
09:49 PM Tom_L: you'd be more careful about your programming
09:49 PM aandrew: I still have my MPLAB ICE2000, I should put it up on ebay
09:49 PM WormFood: But, not all AVRs are flash. Some are OTP
09:49 PM Tom_L: right
09:50 PM ruenahcmohr: wtf the browser just imploded
09:50 PM aandrew: must be a sigificant cost saving to develop a whole other wafer for OTP vs Flash
09:51 PM ruenahcmohr: most otp was encased uv
09:51 PM ruenahcmohr: so it seems
09:51 PM ruenahcmohr: thats why that whole thing on twitter
09:51 PM ruenahcmohr: where I shipped two packages of chips to decappers
09:51 PM ruenahcmohr: to decap with bond wires in tact
09:52 PM ruenahcmohr: erase and reprogram the chips
09:52 PM ruenahcmohr: one fellow said he used to do it with pics
09:54 PM ruenahcmohr: so, today I learned I'm missing a utility to convert binaries into ihex files
09:55 PM Tom_L: wasn't that a dos utility?
09:55 PM Tom_L: i to bin or something
09:56 PM Tom_L: hmm... i used to do that but what did i use?
09:57 PM Tom_L: and for what....
09:57 PM Tom_L: https://www.keil.com/download/docs/113.asp
10:00 PM ruenahcmohr: I'v been building a set of linux utilites
10:00 PM aandrew: ruenahcmohr: sure, but if AVRs were OTP then they weren't EPROM, they were Flash
10:00 PM aandrew: Tom_L: objdump can do that I think
10:01 PM aandrew: -I binary -O ihex type of thing
10:01 PM ruenahcmohr: wut
10:01 PM ruenahcmohr: nup
10:02 PM ruenahcmohr: eep24c comes with txt2ihex and ihex2txt
10:02 PM aandrew: sorry objcopy not objdump
10:02 PM Tom_L: maybe it was objcopy
10:03 PM Tom_L: did the 68332 take intel hex?
10:03 PM Tom_L: i can't honestly remember now
10:03 PM ruenahcmohr: srec probably
10:03 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:03 PM aandrew: I think objcopy can do srec too
10:04 PM Tom_L: i know in dos days you did something to make a .com file
10:04 PM ruenahcmohr: I cant find anything about ihex in it, but they barely mention srec
10:05 PM ruenahcmohr: its like they are not saying cause its done by another program
10:05 PM ruenahcmohr: huh
10:08 PM Tom_L: it was some utility that didn't ship with every dos version
10:08 PM Tom_L: i know that
10:08 PM ruenahcmohr: objcopy -I binary VAK514.BIN -O ihex test.ihex
10:08 PM ruenahcmohr: that worked
10:08 PM ruenahcmohr: matches the file I did
10:08 PM ruenahcmohr: huh
10:13 PM ruenahcmohr: it would be nice if in one of the manuals they listed the supported types
10:16 PM Tom_L: all i ever dealt with was ihex and srec
10:16 PM Tom_L: but it's all a blur now
10:16 PM ruenahcmohr: motorola loved their format
10:16 PM ruenahcmohr: I think it handled stuff larger than 16 bits better tho
10:18 PM Tom_L: i still have those books
10:18 PM Tom_L: the 2 pink books and the stuff on the 68332
10:19 PM ruenahcmohr: I was upposed to find a use for my 64hc11 some time
10:19 PM Tom_L: i still have some of those too
10:19 PM ruenahcmohr: for some reason I'm more interested in 8051
10:20 PM ruenahcmohr: 8051 is horrid hardware
10:20 PM Tom_L: never really got that interested in the 68hc11 though
10:20 PM ruenahcmohr: well, its got a multiply instruction
10:20 PM ruenahcmohr: the address map is horrid
10:22 PM Tom_L: the one had that onboard flash too
10:22 PM Tom_L: for larger programs
10:23 PM ruenahcmohr: http://www.mriedel.ece.umn.edu/wiki/images/7/7a/Riedel_Cyclic_Combinational_Circuits.pdf
10:23 PM ruenahcmohr: longer and interested read
10:23 PM ruenahcmohr: I can almost see my head around it