#garfield Logs
Jan 29 2023
#garfield Calendar
05:24 PM polprog_: https://polprog.net/rozne1/ircjunk/meratronik/zdj/
05:34 PM polprog_: ive been tuning up my RLC meter
05:34 PM polprog_: https://polprog.net/rozne1/ircjunk/meratronik/zdj/tuning.jpg
05:34 PM polprog_: It works
05:36 PM polprog_: tuning, this was made in 1979
05:36 PM polprog_: fortunately
05:36 PM polprog_: i was sure one of the pots was shorted but it was just me being silly
05:36 PM polprog_: i was measuring the wrong amplifier's output
05:45 PM ruenahcmohr: its was out by 50% wasn't it?
05:45 PM polprog_: yeah something like that
05:45 PM polprog_: The analog board is full of 741's and 709's, they all have offset nulling potentiometers that needed to be trimmed
05:46 PM polprog_: There is full schematics in that folder one up
05:46 PM polprog_: feel free to browse, took me a while to collect it
05:46 PM polprog_: the polish manual was incomplete. I found a german one on the edaboard polish forum, reuploaded it because edaboard requires a login
05:46 PM polprog_: Might be of interest to you
05:46 PM polprog_: THe german manual has boardviews but the schematics are crap
05:47 PM polprog_: I have better quality schematics in the images
05:55 PM ruenahcmohr: :]
05:56 PM Tom_L: what inspires you to persue any given circuit to test?
05:57 PM polprog_: wdym?
05:59 PM ruenahcmohr: so, quartus v22 does not support cyclone II
06:01 PM Tom_L: polprog_, i dunno, seems like you guys just pop up with random circuits to play with
06:02 PM polprog_: ah that RLC meter i just bought to jave means to measure inductors that i make
06:02 PM Tom_L: well i realize that one...
06:02 PM polprog_: I came up with a funky nonlinear one yesterday
06:03 PM polprog_: and the Liion i was to build long time ago, i just lost the chips
06:04 PM polprog_: https://polprog.net/rozne1/ircjunk/uhffun/nieliniowy_2n2222.png heres the nonlinear one
06:04 PM polprog_: i was tryna make a common base amplifier
06:13 PM ruenahcmohr: hmm
06:28 PM polprog_: night
06:28 PM ruenahcmohr: awe
06:28 PM ruenahcmohr: stay up and help me understand sdram timing
06:28 PM ruenahcmohr: :]
06:29 PM Tom_L: or fix my orient code
06:29 PM ruenahcmohr: I THINK, that if you stick to a row(or column) of the memeory, you dont have to every worry about refresh becasue it stays in the same static amplifiers of the ram
06:30 PM ruenahcmohr: which means (maybe) you can super-simply use a 8M sdram for a 512k sram
06:31 PM Tom_L: with 8 bits all set the same/
06:31 PM Tom_L: ?
06:31 PM ruenahcmohr: no, so
06:31 PM ruenahcmohr: it seems that the way sdram works is to 'check in' and 'check out' segments of memory
06:31 PM polprog_: https://www.fpga4fun.com/SDRAM1.html best explanation i read
06:32 PM polprog_: i gotta hit the hay, if i fail to get the paperwork in order tomorrow i will be screwed
06:32 PM ruenahcmohr: if you stay on the same segment, its basically static
06:33 PM ruenahcmohr: that segment is either a row or a column, but I"m not sure which yet
06:33 PM ruenahcmohr: The FPGA accesses each row "often enough".
06:33 PM ruenahcmohr: ""
06:33 PM ruenahcmohr: so that means if I stay on the same row, I'm ok
06:33 PM ruenahcmohr: aka, however many columns there are, is what I can get static
06:34 PM ruenahcmohr: the 8M chip has 9
06:35 PM ruenahcmohr: so I'v get 512byes
06:36 PM ruenahcmohr: huh
06:36 PM ruenahcmohr: thanks polprog_
06:53 PM ruenahcmohr: hey wait
06:54 PM ruenahcmohr: it looks like all the banks operate on the same column decoder
06:54 PM ruenahcmohr: in that case,that 8M chip has 4 banks
06:54 PM ruenahcmohr: so you actually get 512*4 x8
06:54 PM ruenahcmohr: 2kx8
06:57 PM ruenahcmohr: root@bigs:/files_loc/Install# ./setup.sh
06:57 PM ruenahcmohr: You must have the 32-bit compatibility libraries installed for the Quartus II installer and software to operate properly.
06:57 PM ruenahcmohr: *sigh*
07:32 PM aandrew: yep it's always something
07:34 PM ruenahcmohr: good thing they said what they want so I can install it
07:35 PM ruenahcmohr: should I just repeatedly hack the installer scripts and try to force it to go anyhow?
07:36 PM ruenahcmohr: if [ $missing_package -eq 1 ] ;then
07:36 PM ruenahcmohr: missing_package=0
07:37 PM ruenahcmohr: for item in libstdc++ glibc libX11 libXext libXau libXdmcp freetype fontconfig expat
07:37 PM ruenahcmohr: do
07:37 PM ruenahcmohr: if test -z `rpm -q $item --qf "%{n}-%{arch}\n"| grep "i386\|i486\|i586\|i686"` ; then
07:37 PM ruenahcmohr: if [ $missing_package -eq 0 ] ;then
07:37 PM ruenahcmohr: missing_package=1
07:38 PM ruenahcmohr: wait
07:39 PM ruenahcmohr: they just stop on that if its a 64 bit os
08:18 PM * Tom_L gives up for the evening
08:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/orient_test/Orient_diagram.pdf
08:18 PM Tom_L: compared to a supposedly working orient
08:19 PM Tom_L: PID.0 is for normal spindle use (velocity) PID.1 is for orient (position)
08:22 PM Tom_L: the crazy thing about it is, i had it working with the sherline motor
08:22 PM Tom_L: but i don't think i have that config anywhere
08:37 PM ruenahcmohr: oh Tom_L , we hit serial number 200 yesterday!!!!!!
08:37 PM ruenahcmohr: so, had you not set up PID1?
08:40 PM Tom_L: for the first one i did as well yes
08:47 PM ruenahcmohr: ah
08:50 PM Tom_L: there's an 'OR' to switch between them
08:50 PM Tom_L: 200 is pretty good!
08:56 PM ruenahcmohr: heh, my thought as I was setting up another A8 on the cnc was "Our projected sales this year are 20 units!, next year, lets try to upscale our market and sell 21!"
09:16 PM ruenahcmohr: https://tomverbeure.github.io/2018/04/08/Altera-Quartus-Install.html
09:16 PM Tom_L: :)
09:17 PM Tom_L: you hand drill all the holes right?
09:17 PM Tom_L: 2 on that one
09:17 PM ruenahcmohr: heh yes, not doing bit changes on my cnc jobs
09:17 PM ruenahcmohr: they take ~1.5 hours
09:17 PM Tom_L: do you mark the locations with the cnc?
09:18 PM ruenahcmohr: no, its cutting the profile with a 3mm bit
09:18 PM ruenahcmohr: holes are smaller
09:18 PM Tom_L: one is
09:18 PM ruenahcmohr: well, the bigger hole in A8 I pocket just so that the end of the taper of the drill is below the surface of the part
09:18 PM ruenahcmohr: just a pilot pocket
09:19 PM Tom_L: right
09:19 PM ruenahcmohr: huh
09:19 PM ruenahcmohr: I could almost use a 3mm drillbit for that whole job
09:19 PM ruenahcmohr: then I could just dent that other hole
09:19 PM ruenahcmohr: I wonder what 3mm carbide drills cost
09:19 PM Tom_L: the 1/16" one?
09:20 PM Tom_L: mill or drill?
09:20 PM ruenahcmohr: no 1/8" which, from china is 3mm
09:20 PM Tom_L: you wouldn't profile with a drill would you?
09:20 PM Tom_L: that's kinda asking for trouble
09:20 PM ruenahcmohr: yes
09:20 PM ruenahcmohr: the cuts are so shallow it wouldn't care
09:20 PM Tom_L: even with the point?
09:21 PM ruenahcmohr: ouch, about $4ea
09:21 PM ruenahcmohr: yea, I'm just cutting all the way thru anyhow
09:21 PM ruenahcmohr: on *that* job
09:22 PM ruenahcmohr: tell me what a real 3mm carbide drill is worth so I feel like $4 is a deal...
09:22 PM ruenahcmohr: :]
09:22 PM Tom_L: HD want's $22
09:22 PM ruenahcmohr: oh spot drills are more expensive
09:22 PM Tom_L: but i bet their drills are shit
09:22 PM ruenahcmohr: 22!!!!
09:23 PM Tom_L: i had the local sharpen shop make me a spot drill from a broken carbide endmill once
09:23 PM Tom_L: had it ready in a day
09:24 PM ruenahcmohr: aliexpress.com/item/4000010474969.html
09:24 PM ruenahcmohr: I'm sure that could mill
09:25 PM ruenahcmohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004470066069.html available in cool blue for just $5
09:26 PM ruenahcmohr: wtf
09:26 PM Tom_L: the tips would load up with alum
09:26 PM ruenahcmohr: aliexpress.com/item/1005004989661042.html
09:27 PM Tom_L: did you see the block my kid was loading the other day?
09:27 PM ruenahcmohr: yea, I could slot out the wedge
09:27 PM ruenahcmohr: no
09:27 PM Tom_L: 300+" long
09:27 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Material_block.jpg
09:27 PM ruenahcmohr: $5/10pcs is too good a deal
09:27 PM Tom_L: 6" thick
09:27 PM ruenahcmohr: is it standing off the table?
09:28 PM Tom_L: the clamps are bolted to the table
09:28 PM Tom_L: those are temp
09:28 PM ruenahcmohr: is that an approved bottle end?
09:28 PM ruenahcmohr: ;]
09:28 PM Tom_L: i thought that was a pretty good idea for blowing out holes
09:28 PM ruenahcmohr: we use plastic pop bottles on a device for testing smoke detectors
09:28 PM Tom_L: the plate under it is pre tapped for the setup
09:29 PM ruenahcmohr: is that regular steel?
09:29 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Cincinnati_1.jpg
09:29 PM ruenahcmohr: I presume they slotted the edges?
09:29 PM Tom_L: that's the plate under the aluminum block
09:29 PM Tom_L: work plate
09:29 PM ruenahcmohr: that looks newer than the last pic you showed me
09:29 PM Tom_L: no, those are toe clamps
09:30 PM ruenahcmohr: so, that plate is not the bed
09:30 PM Tom_L: the plate is the bed
09:30 PM ruenahcmohr: ah
09:30 PM Tom_L: but it's replaceable
09:30 PM ruenahcmohr: oof
09:30 PM Tom_L: sectioned
09:30 PM ruenahcmohr: more than $1M?
09:30 PM Tom_L: that's a dual gantry. there are 2 of those sitting on it
09:30 PM ruenahcmohr: :/ all I want is a house/shop thats big enough
09:31 PM ruenahcmohr: oh, yea, ok I just see the corner
09:31 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Cincinnati_3.jpg
09:31 PM Tom_L: there's the one right beside it
09:31 PM Tom_L: there are 2 side by side
09:31 PM ruenahcmohr: k
09:31 PM ruenahcmohr: are those full guage train tracks?
09:32 PM Tom_L: bigger and they are flat
09:32 PM ruenahcmohr: I mean beside it
09:32 PM Tom_L: the top of those is replaceable too
09:32 PM ruenahcmohr: under the user platform
09:32 PM Tom_L: that's what i'm talking about
09:32 PM Tom_L: oh
09:32 PM ruenahcmohr: yea
09:33 PM Tom_L: i dunno about that but the user platform rides on them
09:33 PM Tom_L: they're close to rr size
09:33 PM ruenahcmohr: I presume their serivce tracks
09:33 PM ruenahcmohr: for bringing a train in /out to swap stuff
09:33 PM Tom_L: the user platform rests on them
09:33 PM ruenahcmohr: heh, surprised it would need it
09:33 PM Tom_L: no not service rail...
09:33 PM Tom_L: for the machine itself
09:33 PM Tom_L: it's BIG
09:34 PM ruenahcmohr: not much to the user platform tho
09:34 PM ruenahcmohr: operator is the word I was looking for, operator...
09:34 PM Tom_L: it's not all in the pic on 3
09:34 PM Tom_L: 2 shows more of that
09:35 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Cincinnati_4.jpg
09:35 PM ruenahcmohr: makes me feel pathetic for not being able to gather up enough money for a $400k house
09:35 PM Tom_L: that's the one he runs most of the time
09:36 PM Tom_L: the back of the control and platform
09:36 PM Tom_L: the yellow grate way down the way there is the coolant tank :)
09:36 PM ruenahcmohr: nice
09:37 PM ruenahcmohr: I only need 1G thanks...
09:37 PM Tom_L: he puts one of those forklift totes in it daily
09:37 PM ruenahcmohr: yea...
09:37 PM Tom_L: 200gal?
09:37 PM Tom_L: i dunno
09:37 PM ruenahcmohr: no, just 1 gal is all I would need for years.
09:38 PM ruenahcmohr: I wonder what the price of the cheapest job they have ever done there was.
09:38 PM ruenahcmohr: 100k?
09:38 PM Tom_L: no idea
09:38 PM Tom_L: he was making caps for wing spars that day
09:38 PM Tom_L: and had some apache floors sitting beside the machine
09:38 PM ruenahcmohr: hey I'm going to go all out and spend $6 on these 10 bits!!!!
09:39 PM ruenahcmohr: :/
09:39 PM Tom_L: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/AH-64D_Apache_Longbow.jpg
09:39 PM Tom_L: the tolerance on those is such that there can't be more than a 20lb variance in units
09:40 PM ruenahcmohr: I wonder what rate they are being consumed
09:41 PM ruenahcmohr: I hope most of the loss is just training oops'
09:41 PM Tom_L: i'm sure they have sim for that
09:41 PM ruenahcmohr: I'v seen the internet, oops' happen!
09:42 PM Tom_L: years ago they were doing flight testing on a learjet here and the ballast shifted and the plane crashed on the street beside the runway
09:43 PM ruenahcmohr: oops
09:44 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Starrrag_Ecospeed.jpg
09:44 PM Tom_L: there's their new 6 axis
09:44 PM Tom_L: you can see the coolant tanks in the back
09:45 PM Tom_L: the totes
09:46 PM ruenahcmohr: fully encosed?
09:46 PM Tom_L: the 6 axis is
09:46 PM Tom_L: those gantrys are 5 axis
09:47 PM Tom_L: 3 spindle
09:49 PM rue_shop3: arg, there are so many cool projects I want to do
09:49 PM rue_shop3: but I need someone to be catalyst for me, otherwise I cant stay on track
09:50 PM rue_shop3: and nobody is ever available or knows anything about this stuff
09:50 PM Tom_L: which stuff?
09:50 PM rue_shop3: electronics/programming
09:50 PM rue_shop3: I mean, remote is ok, but someone here would kick it off
09:50 PM Tom_L: i've forgotten alot
09:51 PM rue_shop3: :)
09:51 PM Tom_L: made a choice
09:51 PM rue_shop3: I couldn't type fast enogh
09:51 PM rue_shop3: if you were here I bet we could have the big cnc running in a week
09:51 PM Tom_L: and i'm not doing much of either atm
09:51 PM Tom_L: no doubt
09:52 PM Tom_L: i did mine in 6 weeks from a scrap yard
09:52 PM rue_shop3: yep, did I do my other small one at almost the same time
09:52 PM rue_shop3: ?
09:52 PM Tom_L: but i didn't have anthing to bother me at that time
09:52 PM rue_shop3: dont recall
09:53 PM rue_shop3: the vectors pulling on my are almost perfectly distributed and the net direction is almost zero
09:54 PM Tom_L: pics don't really show the massiveness of those cncs
09:54 PM rue_shop3: the big cnc
09:54 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:54 PM rue_shop3: I'm technically working on servo drivers for the dc mtoors
09:55 PM rue_shop3: to emulate steppers
09:55 PM Tom_L: i noticed you'd been working on them
09:55 PM rue_shop3: but, from what I can tell, normal PID from a position register that was incremented decremented by a step/direction input wouldn't track well
09:56 PM Tom_L: from where i took this: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Cincinnati_1.jpg to this one: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cincinnati/Cincinnati_4.jpg
09:56 PM Tom_L: the cnc hadn't move any
09:56 PM rue_shop3: which is why I'm working on a new type of servo loop that emulates the operation of a stepper more
09:56 PM rue_shop3: :]
09:56 PM Tom_L: when i first mentioned the x length in lcnc i think they thought i was full of it
09:57 PM rue_shop3: :]
09:57 PM rue_shop3: people wow at my target of 48x96"
09:57 PM Tom_L: iirc there are 5 similar in that building
09:57 PM Tom_L: a healthy size for a home cnc
09:57 PM rue_shop3: its funny, most of the big things I'v wanted to cut on it are molds for casting
09:58 PM rue_shop3: at the same time, if I had an 8.5x11" cnc it would work for most of my target proejcts
09:58 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:58 PM Tom_L: my only regret on mine is Z isn't quite enough
09:58 PM rue_shop3: maybe I should just PID splat a controller and see how well it works out
09:59 PM rue_shop3: then, atleast, I'd have all the mechanical assembled
09:59 PM rue_shop3: I need to cast the two 10:1 pullies for the X
09:59 PM rue_shop3: huh, I'm only going about 6" on my Z, cause I almost only ever do cutouts
09:59 PM Tom_L: the vise kills alot on mine
10:00 PM rue_shop3: make a flatter vise?
10:00 PM rue_shop3: you have a cnc machine :]
10:00 PM Tom_L: no, i like this vise
10:00 PM Tom_L: instead of bolting your stuff to the table i put the workplate in the vise now
10:02 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Sacrificial_plate.jpg
10:02 PM Tom_L: that's what all yours are set up on
10:02 PM Tom_L: and i stick that in the vise now
10:02 PM rue_shop3: I put down a sheet of wood here
10:02 PM rue_shop3: I premill it flat
10:02 PM Tom_L: i can skin cut it on each setup so it's nice and flat
10:03 PM rue_shop3: yup
10:03 PM rue_shop3: I have a 7/8" but I use
10:03 PM rue_shop3: bit
10:03 PM Tom_L: i think that plate started out at 1" but it may have been a little less
10:05 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A9_New/A9-A10_fixture1.jpg
10:05 PM Tom_L: there it's mounted in the vise
10:05 PM rue_shop3: if I want material like that I'd have to set up my own recycling centre
10:05 PM Tom_L: look close and you can see the outline of A8 on the left side
10:05 PM rue_shop3: which there are other reasons I should do anyhow
10:06 PM Tom_L: i locate off the right rear corner of the plate for both parts
10:06 PM rue_shop3: with one of those big machines you could leave a fixure set up for every part ya ever did
10:07 PM Tom_L: sometimes tool changing drills takes longer than the rest of the part
10:07 PM rue_shop3: just use a different head
10:07 PM Tom_L: i do, i have them all preset
10:08 PM rue_shop3: with 3 heads on 2 gantires you have 6 bits available at any moment
10:08 PM Tom_L: the interesting thing about those is you set the offsets for the first one then the other two are offsets from it
10:09 PM Tom_L: the tooling is all pre set on the bench
10:09 PM rue_shop3: A8 1 hours, 25 minutes, 11 seconds on the nose every time
10:09 PM Tom_L: they use shrink fit tooling
10:09 PM rue_shop3: you were showing me the tool for setting them
10:09 PM rue_shop3: electromagnetic heating
10:09 PM Tom_L: another one probably yes
10:10 PM Tom_L: not theirs
10:10 PM rue_shop3: oh
10:10 PM Tom_L: they all work about the same
10:10 PM rue_shop3: so
10:10 PM rue_shop3: last jan. I did a pcb repair for a guy
10:10 PM rue_shop3: but when he put it back in, it started power cycling
10:11 PM rue_shop3: turns out the 7805 I replaced was duff
10:11 PM rue_shop3: so I put in another one
10:11 PM rue_shop3: and after a day, it started cycling
10:11 PM Tom_L: overload kicking in?
10:11 PM rue_shop3: I put it on the bench, and fed crazy amount of power into it so it'd overheat
10:11 PM rue_shop3: and it wont
10:11 PM rue_shop3: its cooking like hell, but working just fine
10:19 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Cube/Tool_Holder1.jpg
10:19 PM Tom_L: i set all the tools up and label Txx in front of them for the program
10:22 PM rue_shop3: this one still has the draw-collette
10:23 PM rue_shop3: I think my mind has an endless supply of things it wants to do
10:23 PM rue_shop3: end up with a 3 stooges effect
10:23 PM rue_shop3: need rate limiting
10:23 PM Tom_L: just take them one at a time
10:23 PM Tom_L: i'm working on orient
10:24 PM Tom_L: i took a break and came back to it
10:24 PM Tom_L: but really didn't do much between
10:24 PM Tom_L: you seem to be a fpga
10:24 PM Tom_L: with parallel processing :)
10:25 PM Tom_L: i could but then my full attention wouln't be on anything
10:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/Tool_Holder2.jpg
10:26 PM Tom_L: that chamfer/spot is the one i had made
10:26 PM Tom_L: in the front row there
10:26 PM Tom_L: carbide
10:28 PM Tom_L: probably never need sharpening the rate i go
10:35 PM ruenahcmohr: yea, but I got voices in my head that all spark up at the same time about different things
10:36 PM ruenahcmohr: and I cant weed them out
10:59 PM ruenahcmohr: yup
10:59 PM ruenahcmohr: I think I can make a self-clocked ROM decode a keyboard and send keys as serial streams
11:00 PM ruenahcmohr: takes an extra 74ls373 and 74ls174 tho
11:06 PM ruenahcmohr: oh, the 16 bit 74 373/374 are two 8 bit units that are merged
11:10 PM ruenahcmohr: easy in 16 states too
11:10 PM ruenahcmohr: I can probably trim off two states
11:11 PM ruenahcmohr: huh, two state machines in one