#garfield Logs
Apr 09 2022
#garfield Calendar
12:39 AM rue_shop3: hmm basic state loop isn't' working
01:42 AM rue_shop3: I think the outputs are working
01:42 AM rue_shop3: need to check timing
02:41 AM rue_shop3: it..... works....
03:31 AM WormFood: I just got my eprom images to display as 256 level gray scale, and made a new video. It is really very cool, to see the bytes flicker on and off, as it erases, and you'll see weird patterns, like it will erase every other row and column, leaving lesser erased bytes like little islands. And there are 4 areas, where it's extremely slow to erase.
03:36 AM rue_mohr: :)
04:29 AM rue_mohr: oh I'm hearing voices
04:29 AM rue_mohr: damnit
05:07 AM Tom_L: morning
05:09 AM rue_mohr: hah
05:09 AM rue_mohr: https://github.com/ruenahcmohr/OneBit
05:11 AM Tom_L: been busy ehh?
05:11 AM rue_mohr: it went kinda quick
05:11 AM rue_mohr: it works, I need to test all the instructions
05:11 AM rue_mohr: got most of them into a test program
12:08 PM rue_bed: nice day out, not warm tho
12:15 PM rue_bed: so then, what for breakfast
12:15 PM rue_bed: and I have new code to try out on the controller
12:16 PM rue_bed: so I was up till 3am...
12:30 PM Tom_L: but you made progress
12:32 PM rue_mohr: yea there is a bunch of cleanup before I move on with it
01:06 PM WormFood: Now my EPROM is about 98.9% erased, but what I find interesting is there are over 2 dozen bytes that haven't erased a single bit.
01:06 PM rue_mohr: !!
01:06 PM rue_mohr: do you have a bit of dirt on the window?
01:07 PM WormFood: even if there was, it wouldn't make any difference. It won't cast a shadow on the die.
01:07 PM rue_mohr: why not?
01:07 PM WormFood: there is way too much light for there to be any shadows
01:07 PM WormFood: I'm using 3 LEDs, directly on the window
01:08 PM * rue_mohr puts on another 10 hours of tea
01:08 PM WormFood: I actually carved down all 3 LEDs, as to fit them into a tighter area
01:08 PM rue_mohr: I'm actually not surprised I go thru so many elements on that thing
01:09 PM WormFood: if the leds were further away, and coming from a single point, then maybe you could get a shadow, but I still doubt it.
01:10 PM WormFood: I've seen EPROMs erase with some pretty dirty windows.
01:10 PM WormFood: and the window on this eprom is very clean.
01:10 PM rue_mohr: it would be neat to photomask data into the rom
01:10 PM WormFood: hahaha
01:10 PM rue_mohr: prewrite all 0's to it
01:10 PM WormFood: but the problem is, you can't get that type of accuracy.
01:11 PM rue_mohr: I want to know how to get uv to encapsulated eeprom dies
01:11 PM rue_mohr: all those OTP 27x are just eeproms
01:11 PM rue_mohr: WormFood, no, its not about bit level
01:11 PM WormFood: of course, but they're in a cheaper plastic case.
01:11 PM rue_mohr: its about having a program read the rom and show what image you masked onto it
01:12 PM rue_mohr: somehow a halflife logo seems fitting
01:12 PM rue_mohr: I suppose if a person got good at it, they could acually mask in text
01:12 PM rue_mohr: not at a bit leel
01:13 PM rue_mohr: level, at an image raster level
01:13 PM WormFood: The bits on this eprom are erasing in a pattern. For example, 2 bytes that haven't erased, are like 8 bytes apart.
01:13 PM rue_mohr: yea, you have to work out the roms bit order to reconstruct the image
01:13 PM rue_mohr: what you got there is a clue
01:13 PM WormFood: I'm curious as to how they physically arrange the bits.
01:13 PM rue_mohr: you should be, then you should investigate and learn
01:15 PM rue_mohr: hmm, I wonder if I can do a catalytic firebox
01:15 PM WormFood: I can display the data as a 1024x1024 2 color image, or a 512x256 16 grayscale image
01:15 PM rue_mohr: right
01:16 PM WormFood: That was actually pretty easy to do.
01:16 PM rue_mohr: bit its organized in two pages of about a 2x3 ratio
01:16 PM rue_mohr: with an unknown bit order
01:16 PM rue_mohr: that you might be able to guess about a bit with a microscope
01:16 PM WormFood: After fighting through making my own headers, based on the BMP specs, and failing, I decided to just have gimp make an image, and I stole their header to use.
01:17 PM rue_mohr: TGA has friendly variants
01:17 PM rue_mohr: you can turn off most of the fancy stuff and still get a valid image
01:17 PM WormFood: One could decap the chip, to recover the die....oh, wait...that won't be necessary
01:17 PM rue_mohr: I could give you the tga libary I have
01:17 PM rue_mohr: its ugly
01:17 PM rue_mohr: written in 1997
01:18 PM WormFood: did they actually have computers back then?
01:18 PM rue_mohr: made my first cnc
01:18 PM rue_mohr: I used 8 bit grey scale TGA for setting the bit height
01:18 PM rue_mohr: it scanned across wood profiling based on the image
01:18 PM WormFood: no thanks. I have everything all scripted up, to convert (raw data into images) and make (videos out of them)
01:19 PM WormFood: That is an interesting way to do it.
01:19 PM rue_mohr: awe, I wanted to see that one come up on hackaday
01:19 PM rue_mohr: "painting via photoetched eeproms"
01:19 PM WormFood: and TGA is not a lossy format, so no problems.
01:19 PM rue_mohr: exactly
01:20 PM rue_mohr: 8 bit greyscale requires no pallette
01:20 PM WormFood: yes it does
01:20 PM rue_mohr: you could just use black and white, take it to a pixel per bit
01:20 PM WormFood: but it can be easily calculated
01:20 PM rue_mohr: no, 8 bit greyscale doesn't
01:21 PM rue_mohr: the format has a HEAP of options that can be a pain to navigate
01:21 PM WormFood: the hardware needs it. It's not included in the image file, because it can easily be calculated. No need to store.
01:21 PM rue_mohr: want a TGA image for header reference?
01:21 PM WormFood: what would be the advantage vs. using a bmp header?
01:22 PM rue_mohr: super easy to write
01:22 PM WormFood: but I've already accomplished the goal of turning the data into images.
01:23 PM WormFood: I don't see what advantage using a tga header, vs a bmp header would have for me.
01:23 PM rue_mohr: yes, would you like to see where the bits actually are tho?
01:23 PM rue_mohr: maybe that group of bits would make more sense?
01:23 PM rue_mohr: aren't you curious?
01:23 PM WormFood: You've lost me. I don't see what you're driving at. What advantage would tga give there?
01:24 PM rue_mohr: easier file to generate, you can make the size whatever you want
01:24 PM WormFood: wouldn't it be 1 byte per pixel, 8-bit grayscale?
01:24 PM rue_mohr: yes, and you can just use 0 and 255 and write 8 pixels per byte
01:24 PM WormFood: I'm not generating a file. I'm just doing cat header data > img.bmp
01:24 PM rue_mohr: k
01:24 PM WormFood: I've literally written no software for this on the PC side.
01:25 PM WormFood: I'm doing everything with shell scripts, and it's trivially easy.
01:25 PM rue_mohr: if your curious about easy image formats, here is a tga, 8 bit greyscale, no pallette
01:25 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/images/side1.tga
01:25 PM rue_mohr: ok
01:26 PM WormFood: My AVR is set in an endless loop, to upload the EPROM contents, via ymodem, with an incrementing filename, and I use "rd" to suck it off the AVR.
01:26 PM rue_mohr: cat want to come in the window and meow at me
01:27 PM WormFood: so on your image, you used each bit, as a height for the CNC?
01:28 PM WormFood: Were you in total control of the CNC, or were you working within the limits of their design?
01:31 PM rue_mohr: oh geez I closed the window on the cats tail, I think she's ok
01:31 PM rue_mohr: yea, the software would let you scale the image for an xyz block
01:32 PM rue_mohr: and it would use the index to set the height and it would scan across the image
01:32 PM rue_mohr: so I made a bunch of stuff with height-profiles on it
01:33 PM WormFood: so, the native software for the CNC understands TGA images?
01:34 PM rue_mohr: yes
01:34 PM rue_mohr: after the tga thing I wrote an NC language for it
01:34 PM WormFood: that's pretty cool
01:34 PM rue_mohr: but didn't get to making a cam program to use with it
01:34 PM rue_mohr: so I never really did much with it
01:34 PM rue_mohr: till grbl came along I didn't use the cnc for much
01:35 PM rue_mohr: but only because I could make up a dxf and throw operations at profiles
02:45 PM WormFood: Is it common, when encountering an unfamiliar interface, to confuse the settings that have 2 positions? I find I have this problem a lot. If it has 3 selections, then it's never a problem, but with 2, most of the time, I can't tell what position it's at.
02:46 PM WormFood: I hate the interfaces that have an option that says what it does, not what it is. So, if an option is on, they'll not say "on" anywhere, and they give you "off"...so mentally I have to invert everything I see.
02:50 PM WormFood: and now, I encountered a GUI interface, that actually took me a while to understand what exactly they're displaying. They give you "|||", that is bright, and the option is dim. WTF?!? I finally figured it out. It's a shitty visual representation of a *cover*, that you slide back and forth, to reveal it's setting underneath.
02:50 PM rue_mohr: not a problem I encounter
02:50 PM WormFood: It might have been more obvious, if their visual representation was clearer, but it was rather flat looking.
02:51 PM WormFood: Usually text based interfaces are the worst.
02:51 PM WormFood: if they use an odd color scheme, it makes it worse.
02:52 PM WormFood: I mean, if they want it to look like your selection is being depressed, it would make what you didn't select higher looking.
02:52 PM WormFood: Maybe it's just my autism kicking in, but I frequently see totally confusing interfaces, that are non-intuitive (to me)
02:54 PM WormFood: If I want to use my microwave as a timer, I simply set the time I want, with a cook power of zero. I still can't figure out how to set a timer on my mom's microwave, because if I set the power to zero, it lights up, and rotates and I'm thinking WFT??? power level is at zerop.
02:54 PM WormFood: of course, there is a button, but it's not labeled in an obvious way that I can figure out.
03:02 PM WormFood: 99% erased, and still 17 bytes that are 00, and one custer of 5 unerased bytes, and another cluster of 4 (within 16 bytes)...and I also noticed, that nearly every odd byte is erased. A majority of problem bits, are at even addresses
03:03 PM WormFood: I would not be surprised if there were some bits that wouldn't erase.
03:05 PM WormFood: if it keeps erasing at it's current rate, it should be totally blank, after 4 years.
03:06 PM WormFood: I mean, hours
03:42 PM WormFood: I said I didn't write any software on the PC for reading my EPROM. That is technically true, but I did write a program to count the set/unset bits in the EPROM, so I can check on it's progress. With that information, I can plot how fast it erases bits over time.
04:39 PM rue_mohr: :)
04:39 PM rue_mohr: I have the phone system running again
04:40 PM rue_mohr: its now killed 4 motherboards, 2 power supplies and 8 hard drives
04:42 PM WormFood: is that the "fuck you" phone system?
04:42 PM WormFood: It seems that phone system does not like you
04:43 PM rue_mohr: its a cursed computer
04:43 PM rue_mohr: I'v upped it to a 3 drive raid 1
04:43 PM WormFood: I have the same axe my great-great grandfather bought. It's had the handle replaced 3 times, and the head once.
04:44 PM WormFood: hahaha...I've read that a 4 drive raid 1 is the most reliable you can get
04:44 PM WormFood: you're not using 20 year old HDDs, are you?
04:47 PM rue_mohr: a number of them had been deathstars actually
04:48 PM rue_mohr: I switched to an older motherboard, 750Mhz AMD I think
04:48 PM WormFood: Why not get a super cheap SSD?
04:48 PM rue_mohr: see if it cant kill olde tech
04:48 PM rue_mohr: SSD wont last a month
04:48 PM WormFood: what hardware are you using?
04:48 PM WormFood: I mean, what is the culprit killing everything?
04:49 PM rue_mohr: no, the hardware shouldn't be dieing at this rate
04:49 PM rue_mohr: I'm not quite comfortable with the speed and memory in there now, but it seems to be working ok
04:49 PM WormFood: you mean you've changed all the hardware, and it's still dying?
04:50 PM rue_mohr: the case and T1 card are origional
04:50 PM WormFood: oh, you've got a T1 card?
04:50 PM rue_mohr: wait, I think I changed the case with the last motherboard...
04:50 PM rue_mohr: yea, to a T1 channelbank
04:50 PM rue_mohr: POTS line and phones
04:50 PM WormFood: T1 isn't oldschool, it's ancientschool ;)
04:50 PM rue_mohr: asterisk on the computer
04:50 PM rue_mohr: its for phone tho
04:51 PM WormFood: yeah. I know. It's still used.
04:51 PM rue_mohr: proper audio quality, no echo
04:51 PM WormFood: An E1 would be even better
04:51 PM WormFood: Have you ever used ISDN before?
04:51 PM rue_mohr: hah, not by anything that matters with this
04:51 PM rue_mohr: well
04:51 PM rue_mohr: the nortel systems are fractiona isdn
04:51 PM WormFood: ISDN = It Still Does Nothing...or I Still Don't Need it
04:52 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1230375.jpg
04:52 PM WormFood: I used to have ISDN service, a long, long time ago (like 2000)
04:52 PM WormFood: One of my friends used to always ask me "how did you get your phone so loud?"
04:52 PM rue_mohr: I have a bunch of voip gear to work on sliding over to, but its not happening yet
04:53 PM WormFood: I have a VoIP phone, but I can't find any information that would allow me to actually use it.
04:53 PM rue_mohr: that really says something for linux tho, to be able to throw in a motherboard that old and have it just go.
04:53 PM WormFood: it's not a bad looking phone. 12 lines, or something crazy high like that.
04:53 PM WormFood: well, Linux, unlike Windows, was designed to be used, not sold
04:54 PM rue_mohr: WormFood, they load a config page from a server based on a config on the phone
04:54 PM WormFood: how do you know? You don't even know what kinda phone I have :P
04:54 PM rue_mohr: its an XML config, via ethier http or tftp
04:54 PM rue_mohr: they are all the same tho
04:54 PM WormFood: I know, that is the usual way, and my phone probably is doing that too.
04:55 PM rue_mohr: there may be a few XML files it loads, they LOVE to layer the CRAP out of it
04:55 PM WormFood: but only can use TFTP if they didn't update the phone's browser to the newest version of firefox/chrome
04:55 PM WormFood: I only have one of these phones, so it probably isn't worth my effort to make it work.
04:56 PM WormFood: It's not high enough on my interest list.
04:56 PM WormFood: I have a VoIP camera, I want to hack before that phone.
04:56 PM rue_mohr: what brand?
04:56 PM WormFood: ip cam?
04:56 PM rue_mohr: phone
04:56 PM WormFood: I don't remember
04:56 PM WormFood: it's not common
04:57 PM rue_mohr: netgear, polycom, panasonic, NEC, grandstream
04:57 PM rue_mohr: avaya, aastra
04:57 PM WormFood: no
04:57 PM rue_mohr: meh
04:57 PM WormFood: IIRC, it's a big name, but like corporate. Not consumer
04:58 PM WormFood: I want to say it's short, like 5 letters long, but honestly can't remember exactly. I'd recognize it, if I saw it.
04:58 PM WormFood: I recognize your motherboard!
05:00 PM WormFood: and the case is almost identical to one I have sitting beside me.
05:05 PM WormFood: the right hand side, from top to bottom, is a single row of buttons, for the lines. It has a piece of paper, so you can write what each line is for.
05:18 PM rue_shop3: heh
05:18 PM rue_shop3: I'll see if that lasts
05:18 PM rue_shop3: that is a 650W power supply too
05:19 PM rue_mohr: I think that motherboard is a lot quieter than the old one way
05:19 PM rue_mohr: was
05:30 PM WormFood: The looks of the cisco 7800 and 7900 series looks similar to my phone. It may be a cisco, but if it is, I can't find anything that looks exactly like what I remember it looking like
05:31 PM rue_mohr: oh I forgot cisco
05:31 PM WormFood: I can tell you the name, if I can pull up my browser history on my old computer.
05:32 PM rue_mohr: heh, no worries
05:32 PM rue_mohr: phone system is back up
05:32 PM rue_mohr: I wanted to be welding boilers
05:33 PM rue_mohr: the call I'm waiting for hasn' yet
05:35 PM aandrew: I wonder if there's some noise/etc getting in either on the power supply or the telephone lines that keeps killing that machine
05:35 PM rue_mohr: not sure
05:35 PM rue_mohr: the T1 is isolated
05:35 PM aandrew: might be worth trying a few different telephone line surge suppressors if you haven't already
05:35 PM rue_mohr: so, I dont get it
05:36 PM aandrew: I had a friend growing up whose phone was always being replaced. he was on a farm and the line ran from the pole to the barn to hte house. as soon as they buried the line, no more issues
05:36 PM rue_mohr: the Channelbanks incomming channel isn't isolated, its "current balanced" so there is a ground loop with the line provider
05:36 PM rue_mohr: but its isolated by the T1
05:36 PM aandrew: just thinking that if everything else on the machine has been replaced, maybe that's the culprit
05:37 PM rue_mohr: did you see the 1 bit controller stuff?
05:37 PM aandrew: I should probably throw out the telco equipment I have in the garage
05:37 PM rue_mohr: aandrew, :s
05:37 PM aandrew: no, i haven't been too focused on fun lately
05:37 PM rue_mohr: awe
05:37 PM rue_mohr: 6 chips, 5 ttl logic, 1 rom
05:37 PM rue_mohr: program it in assembler
05:37 PM rue_mohr: 8 input, 7 output
05:38 PM aandrew: hm
05:38 PM rue_mohr: in all the years, that T1 card is the only thing in common
05:38 PM rue_mohr: I cant see it being the source of issues tho
05:39 PM rue_mohr: https://laughtonelectronics.com/Arcana/One-bit%20computer/One-bit%20computer.html
05:39 PM rue_mohr: based on this, I had to fill in a lot of details
05:39 PM rue_mohr: and write an assembler
05:39 PM WormFood: it migh be a while, but I'll try to remember to let you know when I find it.
05:40 PM rue_mohr: if you can break into it enough to set the provisioning server, your golden
05:55 PM WormFood: I'm sure it's possible, but I haven't investigated it that deeply. I shoud wireshark it's network access attempts, and see what it's trying to do.
05:56 PM rue_mohr: all you have to do is make an isolated network with a DHCP and DNS server
05:56 PM WormFood: right. I know.
05:56 PM rue_mohr: then point that at a config server (tftp or http) and give it the file names it asks for
05:57 PM rue_mohr: I doubt its checking identities to make sure their genuine
05:57 PM WormFood: exactly!
05:57 PM WormFood: this is rather old. I had it in 2007, so I don't know when exactly I got it.
05:57 PM rue_mohr: in the configs, turn on the user config interface on the phone
05:57 PM rue_mohr: tftp
05:58 PM rue_mohr: there are SO many things I can do with the 1 bit deisgn
05:58 PM rue_mohr: I'm trying to finish where I'm at
05:59 PM rue_mohr: and so far I'm not sure I'll top out 256 instructions
06:02 PM rue_mohr: oh I need to make a new ladel for hte alunuim too
06:03 PM * Tom_L should go make some chips
06:06 PM rue_mohr: oh
06:06 PM rue_mohr: oh hmm I could do that too
06:07 PM Tom_L: not sure what to make though
06:07 PM rue_mohr: hmm
06:08 PM Tom_L: thought about making that top piece one piece instead of two
06:08 PM Tom_L: but it works like it is
06:09 PM Tom_L: probably better than if it were one piece
07:01 PM rue_mohr: oh, I was going to say
07:01 PM rue_mohr: have you ever tried profiling a height map?
07:01 PM rue_mohr: like image stuff
07:18 PM Tom_L: not per se no but i have done 3d stuff
07:18 PM Tom_L: i think i have soemthing to do it though
07:20 PM rue_mohr: try a keychain with a animal profiled into it
07:20 PM rue_mohr: :)
07:20 PM rue_mohr: I been waiting all day for a call, the phone just rang and there wasn't a call on it..
07:20 PM rue_mohr: arg
07:20 PM Tom_L: :/
07:20 PM Tom_L: so i should start selling keychains?
07:21 PM rue_mohr: see if you can have some fun with it
07:21 PM Tom_L: i like making more useful stuff
07:21 PM rue_mohr: I know
07:21 PM rue_mohr: but technical challange
08:35 PM Tom_L: https://www.scorchworks.com/Fengrave/fengrave.html
08:39 PM rue_mohr: I'v heard of scorchworks before
08:40 PM Tom_L: i downloaded it but don't know if i've ever tried it
08:41 PM rue_mohr: does it just generate an NC block for a given height map/.
08:41 PM rue_mohr: ?
08:42 PM Tom_L: i guess
11:18 PM rue_mohr: https://twitter.com/RueNahcMohr/status/1513004296467468292
11:21 PM Tom_L: that's alot of wires for 1 bit
11:22 PM rue_mohr: 8 bit address, 32 bit instruction