#garfield Logs
Feb 28 2022
#garfield Calendar
08:42 AM rue_bed: ...
11:51 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A12_New/Mods/A12_blocks.jpg
11:51 AM Tom_L: had an extra min this morning
06:56 PM aandrew: https://motorsnorkel.com/ - looking at buying this to convert my 8kW gas generator to natural gas... any opinions on this kind of thing?
06:57 PM aandrew: rue_bed: this is why my wife does my taxes. I am money stupid
07:07 PM rue_mohr: hi
07:07 PM Tom_L: ^^ blocks all squared up now
07:08 PM rue_mohr: oof thats a lot of work
07:08 PM Tom_L: gonna run a couple maybe
07:22 PM rue_shop3: I'll start another head!
07:23 PM Tom_shop: i'll start another latch
07:34 PM rue_shop3: ok, so, power supply for light...
07:35 PM rue_shop3: I dont like this a lot, but it works
08:22 PM rue_shop3: done! wow
08:22 PM rue_shop3: thats fast
08:33 PM Tom_shop: me too
08:33 PM Tom_shop: pics in a bit
08:40 PM rue_mohr: oh pics!
08:40 PM rue_mohr: I fogtot
08:41 PM rue_mohr: ok, coolant squirter, recalibrate 3d printer (missed it a bit), fix compressor, (and redo taxes)
08:45 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A12_New/Mods/A12_new_batch.jpg
08:45 PM Tom_L: it's a start
08:53 PM rue_shop3: woof
08:53 PM rue_shop3: I just started a second head!
09:02 PM Tom_L: you may want to tumble all these when you get em
09:02 PM Tom_L: with all the tool changes it takes about 10 min on the latch
09:06 PM rue_shop3: heh, the latches are almost as much work
09:06 PM Tom_L: how many heads have you run since you started this batch?
09:06 PM Tom_L: the latches run quick it's just all the tool changes
09:10 PM rue_shop3: about 19
09:10 PM Tom_L: not bad
09:10 PM Tom_L: i think i've got 19 or so
09:11 PM Tom_L: and i'll run all those blocks for the latch
09:11 PM rue_shop3: my goal is to finish 30
09:11 PM rue_shop3: one came out with a ledge too thin
09:11 PM Tom_L: i had a few i cut a little narrow so i may not run those
09:11 PM Tom_L: when you get these you'll have 40ish
09:27 PM rue_shop3: so we gonna send you money or a verticle bandsaw?
09:29 PM Tom_L: these new blades work fine
09:29 PM Tom_L: i don't really have room for a saw anyway
09:31 PM rue_shop3: so, jigsaw blades...
09:31 PM rue_shop3: oh that picure!
09:32 PM Tom_L: i got plenty of blades now
09:32 PM Tom_L: i got some 10tpi and they work alot better than what i had
09:49 PM Tom_L: what size cutter do you use to cut the A9?
09:54 PM rue_mohr: A9/10 is all 3mm bit
09:54 PM rue_mohr: post drill the holes
09:54 PM rue_mohr: that are smaller
09:56 PM rue_shop3: done, I have 8 blanks left
09:57 PM Tom_L: i have 0
09:57 PM Tom_L: for the A9
09:57 PM Tom_L: but i have material
09:57 PM rue_shop3: oh the picture!
09:57 PM rue_shop3: I'll try again
09:59 PM Tom_L: and i have a fairly large chunk for those A12
09:59 PM Tom_L: i just didn't cut it up yet
10:00 PM Tom_L: i'd guess enough for a hundred or two parts
10:10 PM aandrew: I know these are cheap end mills, but what does the "twist" do for/to them?
10:10 PM aandrew: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B094QH7KGH vs the 2-flute flat ones here https://www.amazon.ca/Genmitsu-Milling-Carving-Including-Titanium/dp/B08JKK38CT
10:11 PM aandrew: they're both saying two flute flat end mill, but the latter is also twisted like a regular drill bit
10:19 PM Tom_L: the last one has a variety of bits
10:21 PM Tom_L: the first link is more for wood
10:21 PM rue_mohr: picture!
10:21 PM rue_mohr: let me try again
10:21 PM * Tom_L by now has forgotten what the picture was for
10:23 PM Tom_L: aandrew, this is an agressive 3flute roughing endmill http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/Carbide_rougher3.jpg
10:23 PM aandrew: yes the last one is four types, but disregarding the "nano blue" and ti coated ones, there are ball and flat mills, but the flat one says 2 flute as does the first link, but they look very different
10:23 PM aandrew: the first has no twist to it
10:23 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/Carbide_rougher4.jpg
10:23 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/Carbide_comparison1.jpg
10:23 PM Tom_L: 3 different variations of flute angle
10:23 PM Tom_L: the left being the best for aluminum
10:24 PM Tom_L: really little difference between the left and center one
10:24 PM aandrew: Tom_L: so the higher twist has a lower angle and is better for alu?
10:24 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1220489.jpg
10:24 PM rue_mohr: that!
10:24 PM Tom_L: i think you get a better finish
10:24 PM rue_mohr: I used it when I needed to do a bunch of cutting
10:24 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: damn, don't accidentally put your hand near that one
10:25 PM Tom_L: or take a seat on the bench
10:25 PM rue_mohr: its not really that dangerous
10:25 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:25 PM rue_mohr: a spinning blade would be much more dangerous
10:25 PM aandrew: Tom_L: so both of the links I had (talking only about the flat mills) are two flute, but the flute angle on the first is like 90 degrees, and then the flute angle on the other is lower since it's got a twist to it too
10:26 PM Tom_L: i think the left bit in my comparison pic was 60 degree flute angle
10:27 PM rue_mohr: its just important that the teeth point down
10:27 PM rue_mohr: otherwise is just a fancy vibrator
10:27 PM Tom_L: yup
10:27 PM aandrew: https://solutions.travers.com/metalworking-machining/milling/the-pros-cons-of-high-and-low-helix-angles
10:27 PM rue_mohr: :/ I didn't get to try my power supply idea
10:29 PM aandrew: there's something else called O flute which seems to be for plastics?
10:29 PM Tom_L: https://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/endmills.aspx
10:30 PM Tom_L: another thing you haven't noticed is what is called a variable flute endmill
10:30 PM Tom_L: where the angle actually varies slightly as it goes up the endmill
10:30 PM rue_mohr: you know the drills I was using for machining were pretty high helix, and aside from the slow feed rates cause they were small, they did a good job
10:30 PM Tom_L: this helps prevent harmonics while cutting
10:30 PM aandrew: yeah I read about that in that travers link... I can't imagine manufacturing mills like that
10:30 PM Tom_L: the ones i have are variable flute
10:30 PM Tom_L: i like them
10:31 PM Tom_L: http://onlinecarbide.com/
10:31 PM Tom_L: is the other place i get high quality cutters from
10:32 PM Tom_L: lakeshore are slightly better and cost more
10:32 PM rue_mohr: drat, I cant think of somehting really cool to get you for helping out with the heads
10:32 PM rue_mohr: I suppose it'll just be money :/
10:33 PM Tom_L: i don't need much
10:33 PM rue_mohr: sometimes I find money a letdown
10:33 PM Tom_L: i set the jigs up the last time so it wasn't bad this round
10:33 PM Tom_L: except the mods to the parts
10:33 PM rue_mohr: seriously I get more excited by a mixed bucket of components
10:34 PM Tom_L: did you find the lost latches?
10:35 PM rue_mohr: hah, I woder if you can set up a diamond blade on the cnc and have the machine sharpen a bit :) (random thought)
10:35 PM rue_mohr: yes, I found the bag of them, mixed
10:35 PM rue_mohr: oh, I should fix the shy ones before they accidently get assembled
10:35 PM rue_mohr: I still ahve to fix up those heads too
10:36 PM rue_mohr: today I finished two orders, they just needed sorting and serial numbers
10:36 PM Tom_L: you put serial numbers on them?
10:36 PM rue_mohr: yea
10:36 PM rue_mohr: at like 175 today
10:36 PM Tom_L: and keep track of where they go?
10:36 PM rue_mohr: kinda
10:36 PM rue_mohr: the ones that come back for repair can be dated
10:37 PM rue_mohr: "ooooh, THOSE!"
10:37 PM rue_mohr: "before we changed the, and fixed the ..."
10:37 PM Tom_L: i suppose that helps
10:37 PM rue_mohr: we had batches, but once we started caching parts, it became kinda meaningless
10:38 PM rue_mohr: its not all tracked as well as it could be
10:38 PM Tom_L: how many short A9 did you get stuck with?
10:38 PM rue_mohr: not sure
10:38 PM aandrew: rue_mohr> seriously I get more excited by a mixed bucket of components
10:38 PM aandrew: that was by far one of the best received things my son ever got, thank you for that again, by the way
10:38 PM rue_mohr: at this point, I dont know whats been used where or gone out where
10:38 PM rue_mohr: :)
10:38 PM aandrew: he made very good use of it
10:39 PM rue_mohr: oh yea, I didn't really get a report back
10:39 PM rue_mohr: it was some cut-n-nut and things wasn't it?
10:39 PM rue_mohr: few motors, and ?
10:40 PM aandrew: yep, lots of ... perforated aluminum, ton of nuts/bolts, some motors etc
10:40 PM rue_mohr: heh
10:40 PM aandrew: trying to teach my younger son to take smaller steps and not be disuaded by the lack of a perfect first result
10:41 PM aandrew: matthew has no issue with that now, fully embraces it
10:41 PM rue_mohr: I had a realization today
10:41 PM aandrew: david is a perfectionist like his mother though
10:41 PM aandrew: and if it's not perfect he tends to want to give up
10:41 PM rue_mohr: there is russian technology and german technology
10:41 PM rue_mohr: both are usually crazy tuff
10:41 PM rue_mohr: but the germans will manufacture things to 0.03thou
10:42 PM rue_mohr: and the russians will make things out of old toasters
10:42 PM rue_mohr: but they both work
10:42 PM aandrew: sounds about right
10:42 PM rue_mohr: and are crazy tuff
10:42 PM rue_mohr: so, in the end?
10:42 PM rue_mohr: does, it matter?
10:42 PM Tom_L: who has more pride in their product?
10:43 PM aandrew: comes down to look/finish/longevity I think
10:43 PM rue_mohr: china makes tonnes of stuff knowing that a large portion of what goes out will never be used before its discarded, so the quality isn't important
10:43 PM aandrew: if it's gotta work now, you want the russian one. if you need it to work for 10y, you wait for the german one
10:43 PM rue_mohr: they pulled a tank out of the bottom of a russian swamp and started it up
10:43 PM rue_mohr: ...
10:44 PM rue_mohr: pretty sure that was russia
10:44 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: one of the youtube people I love watching is junkyard digs, he does a lot of "found this car in a swamp where it sat for 40y, we'll drive it out of here under its own power" type vids
10:44 PM rue_mohr: the marble machine ( the music one)
10:44 PM aandrew: young guy, pretty low key video production style, it's fun to watch
10:44 PM rue_mohr: his v1 was just hocked togethor with tape and wood, and it worked
10:44 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: oh yeah I know that... wintergarten?
10:45 PM rue_mohr: mmx, died before being finished as a "perfect" design
10:45 PM rue_mohr: so
10:45 PM aandrew: yeah perfection is nice to strive for but it can lead to failure to produce anything at all
10:45 PM rue_mohr: on, how many years of irc?, its the people who aim for perfection who never finish the builds
10:45 PM aandrew: I fall prety to that (german ancestry, go figure)
10:46 PM rue_mohr: your so much better off hocking things togethor and learning the lessons you never knew you didn't know
10:46 PM rue_mohr: if you want, re-rev it till it is perfect
10:46 PM rue_mohr: it wont be, there are tradeoffs
10:46 PM aandrew: yep
10:47 PM rue_mohr: have him build things from cardboard, hot glue, and coathanger wire
10:47 PM rue_mohr: set a goal (6 legged walking mahcine, "robot arm") whatever, and include popsicle sticks
10:47 PM rue_mohr: no plan, just go!
10:48 PM aandrew: that is exactly what matthew does and is pretty damn good at
10:48 PM rue_mohr: then, post-mortem the project. What worked, what didn't? what can be improved? what unexpected problems came up?
10:48 PM aandrew: you have no idea what my budget for hot melt glue sticks is like
10:48 PM Tom_L: time for bed for me
10:48 PM rue_mohr: :) perfect
10:48 PM aandrew: we've more or less banned tape though
10:48 PM rue_mohr: gnight Tom_L
10:49 PM aandrew: 'night Tom_L
10:49 PM rue_mohr: I banned cardboard and wood :)
10:49 PM rue_mohr: you saw about soldering to aluminum, right?
10:49 PM aandrew: yeah... matthew loves cardboard and experiments with wood and wants to get into metal but I think he's a bit young yet and cutting up cans is kind of risky
10:49 PM aandrew: no, but I know it's tricky
10:50 PM rue_mohr: yea, sheet metal is dangerous af
10:50 PM rue_mohr: the nerves run down the sides of your fingers, avoid cuts there!
10:50 PM rue_mohr: and the thumb just has stupid nerves all over
10:51 PM rue_mohr: anyhow, pointers for the younger son, avoid perfection the first time, make it work, quick
10:51 PM rue_mohr: that mecha I have?
10:51 PM rue_mohr: no real plan, just started welding
10:52 PM rue_mohr: most of my working projects are the ones I planned least
10:54 PM rue_mohr: and I might die of old age trying to completely understand magnetics
10:55 PM rue_mohr: tho I think I'v come a long way
10:57 PM rue_mohr: perfection is a hard thing to not chase
10:57 PM rue_mohr: even with these pwoer supplies I been doing
10:57 PM rue_mohr: "it works!"
10:57 PM rue_mohr: "yes, but I want something more than 44% efficient"
10:57 PM rue_mohr: :/