#garfield Logs
Jul 12 2021
#garfield Calendar
01:08 AM rue_mohr: https://twitter.com/RueNahcMohr/status/1414461769754374148 :D
05:59 AM polprog: awesome :D
08:31 AM aandrew: rue_mohr: nice! I'd have done the dial going from 0-100 instead of 100-0 and then done the Marty McFly thing with the mega amplifier
08:35 AM rue_bed: heh
08:36 AM aandrew: I have a chinesium spot welder kit I got on sale
08:36 AM aandrew: it's got big heavy leads like that
08:36 AM aandrew: but the electrodes are copper
08:37 AM rue_mohr: yea those brass ones fuse to everything
08:37 AM aandrew: they do have a nice collet kind of design to hold the actual electrode though, I wonder if I can find some 3-4mm dia tungsten rods
08:37 AM rue_mohr: tig
08:38 AM aandrew: duh yes that would be perfect
09:33 AM rue_mohr: https://sunstonewelders.com/applications/battery/micro-welding-nickel-battery-tabs/micro-welding-parallel-weld-head
09:33 AM rue_mohr: $35 for 2 peices of copper,
09:33 AM rue_mohr: $60 if you make us bend the ends...
09:36 AM aandrew: yep
09:37 AM aandrew: something I learned a long time ago is that pricing has *nothing* to do with effort. It is about what someone's willing to pay
09:38 AM rue_mohr: mmm
09:38 AM rue_mohr: interesting extension of my million dollar policy
09:38 AM aandrew: heh
09:38 AM aandrew: when I worked at Benshaw is when I started learning this
09:38 AM aandrew: COGS is only the starting point, not even close to the minimum price
09:39 AM aandrew: (COGS * 2 + support + company_costs) * market_bear
09:39 AM rue_mohr: https://www.electricbike.com/introduction-to-battery-pack-design-and-building-part-3/
09:40 AM aandrew: the market bearing factor is the interesting one. you got something cool and new and popular, that can be 10 or even 100 or 1000
09:40 AM rue_mohr: I think thats a knockoff of a hakko welder...
09:40 AM aandrew: wha'ts your recent interest in spot welders being driven by?
09:40 AM aandrew: battery packs specifically?
09:41 AM rue_mohr: so
09:41 AM rue_mohr: I know a guy who needed a new battery for his cordless
09:41 AM rue_mohr: the market_bear factor was waaaay over him
09:41 AM rue_mohr: for 2 YEARS he went on about it
09:41 AM rue_mohr: I kinda wanted a tabber anyhow
09:42 AM rue_mohr: so I got some cells at the dollar store and made the welder
09:42 AM aandrew: yeah last summer I had a "man I could really use a spot welder" which is why I got that one
09:42 AM aandrew: it is still in the box
09:42 AM rue_mohr: hey what did you get?
09:42 AM aandrew: one moment
09:43 AM rue_mohr: so I got it togethor and have been cleaning it up
09:43 AM aandrew: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000036422292.html
09:45 AM rue_mohr: huh?
09:45 AM rue_mohr: so add AC transofrmer?
09:45 AM aandrew: pretty much
09:46 AM rue_mohr: huh
09:46 AM rue_mohr: mines a 74HC14, SSR and microwave transformer (rewound)
09:47 AM aandrew: yep pretty standard, although I am disappointed in the lack of 555
09:47 AM aandrew: you're starting to slip
09:47 AM rue_mohr: it wouldn't behave
09:47 AM aandrew: 74HC14 is a gateway chip. Next thing you're gonna be putting an RPi in there and claiming it's necessary to have wifi
09:48 AM rue_mohr: I needed to make sure nomatter what you did with the trigger, you just got 1 pulse that was only ~13ms long
09:48 AM aandrew: yep
09:48 AM aandrew: I remember this discussion :-)
09:48 AM rue_mohr: I'v always had problems with monostables
09:48 AM rue_mohr: back later
07:12 PM rue_mohr: back
07:18 PM rue_mohr: https://mcturra2000.wordpress.com/2021/07/12/simple-memory-to-memory-stm32f4-dma-example-using-libopencm3/
07:19 PM * Tom_L couldn't find a place for the 1/8" dowel wrapped in tape so he tossed it: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/Can_holder_assy.jpg
07:29 PM aandrew: I haven't used mem-to-mem DMA yet
07:32 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: how did/is your z80 vga project go/going
07:38 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, you should have kept the cutter.. you have more trouble getting them than me
08:14 PM rue_mohr: aandrew, its stalled
08:14 PM rue_mohr: I'm waiting to learn more about the hard drive controllers
08:14 PM rue_mohr: I'm learning about jtag
08:14 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, haha!
08:14 PM rue_mohr: COOL!
08:15 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, Tom_L Tom_L what do you think!!?!?!?!?!
08:15 PM rue_mohr: yea?
08:16 PM rue_mohr: that arrived about 5 days faster than I thought it would
08:17 PM Tom_L: the trigger casting looks good
08:17 PM rue_mohr: hah!
08:17 PM rue_mohr: oh I did make you two pins didn't I?
08:17 PM rue_mohr: oh yea your on it
08:17 PM Tom_L: i got 2 ~1/4" pins yes
08:17 PM rue_mohr: what do you think
08:17 PM Tom_L: pretty cool i think
08:18 PM Tom_L: i see how it goes together
08:18 PM rue_mohr: I need to show you how to bend the tabs :)
08:18 PM Tom_L: do you drill them after that?
08:18 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:18 PM rue_mohr: there is a lot of assembly time drilling
08:18 PM Tom_L: i bet
08:18 PM rue_mohr: funny on the 3d print eh?
08:18 PM Tom_L: that should be cut down
08:19 PM Tom_L: which one?
08:19 PM rue_mohr: the bearing block
08:19 PM Tom_L: was that the 2nd one or the first?
08:19 PM rue_mohr: first
08:19 PM Tom_L: the inside somewhat looks tapered on one side
08:19 PM rue_mohr: and for the life of me, even after looking at it again, you just cant see that in the 3d viewers
08:19 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:19 PM rue_mohr: the inside was the oops
08:20 PM Tom_L: the other one has taper for sure but you probably don't need more
08:20 PM Tom_L: you should have kept the cutter though
08:20 PM rue_mohr: you can add the box to your project showcase :)
08:20 PM rue_mohr: na I wanted you to try one
08:20 PM Tom_L: you have more trouble getting em than i do
08:20 PM Tom_L: it looks about like the ones i get locally
08:21 PM rue_mohr: see if their as bad on your end as mine
08:21 PM rue_mohr: 2 flute
08:21 PM rue_mohr: slue
08:21 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:21 PM rue_mohr: I'll just mash the keyboard...
08:22 PM Tom_L: you do the tube with a router?
08:22 PM rue_mohr: so, we have a tab bending jig thats 15mm wide, with pins in the top that go into the slot to keep it positioned
08:22 PM rue_mohr: yes, those slots are with a router, two bits
08:22 PM rue_mohr: so I do them up in batches
08:22 PM Tom_L: those come out good
08:22 PM rue_mohr: all the wide slots, then change bit and all the narrow slots
08:23 PM rue_mohr: we have a square jig that bolts on to get the positioning right
08:23 PM Tom_L: you have a stop or something for the length
08:23 PM rue_mohr: the a jig on the router table to guide it
08:23 PM rue_mohr: well, a line :)
08:23 PM rue_mohr: and the slot is via a carefully adjusted table saw and a sled
08:24 PM Tom_L: i saw that
08:24 PM Tom_L: pun intended
08:24 PM rue_mohr: :)
08:24 PM rue_mohr: I was kinda worried someone would think it was gun parts at the border
08:24 PM Tom_L: didn't appear opened
08:24 PM rue_mohr: its too bad the box didn't cast with less inclusions
08:25 PM rue_mohr: but I think its great
08:25 PM Tom_L: it turned out good for a first off
08:26 PM rue_mohr: yea! I dont think the moisture level in my sand was quite right
08:26 PM rue_mohr: I see a LOT of people using that stuff that sets with CO2
08:26 PM Tom_L: if you needed, you could cast the bottom slightly thicker and flycut it flat
08:26 PM Tom_L: huh
08:26 PM Tom_L: never heard of using CO2
08:27 PM rue_mohr: there is a goo that hardens up with co2, I forget what its called
08:28 PM Tom_L: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780750642842500156
08:28 PM rue_mohr: yup thats it
08:29 PM Tom_L: do you break alot of those little cutters?
08:29 PM rue_mohr: I have a pretty conservative cut going right now
08:30 PM rue_mohr: by the time they are so dull they break, they are really done
08:30 PM Tom_L: where do you get em?
08:30 PM rue_mohr: china
08:30 PM Tom_L: k
08:30 PM rue_mohr: ~$2ea
08:30 PM Tom_L: you should figure out some kind of coolant
08:30 PM Tom_L: it would help ALOT
08:30 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:30 PM rue_mohr: I could atleast double the speed
08:30 PM rue_mohr: I'm nowhere near the motor capacity
08:30 PM Tom_L: 3 flute would do that
08:31 PM rue_mohr: heat was a problem
08:31 PM rue_mohr: would you like to see how fast you can get that one to cut with your machine?
08:31 PM Tom_L: no
08:31 PM rue_mohr: haha
08:31 PM Tom_L: i have trouble with the .125 anyway
08:31 PM Tom_L: the sherline holders are just too shitty
08:31 PM rue_mohr: ?
08:32 PM rue_mohr: oh, were using the collet with the draw bar
08:32 PM Tom_L: the setscrew pushes against it and that's where they usually snap
08:32 PM Tom_L: no i have a set but have never used them
08:32 PM Tom_L: too hard to change tools
08:32 PM rue_mohr: oh yea
08:32 PM Tom_L: i have a collet holder i could use but i think it would be the same problem
08:33 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/valenite/valenite_holder1.jpg
08:33 PM Tom_L: i thought that might be better but it wasn't
08:34 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if an ER9 collet chuck would work for you
08:34 PM rue_mohr: or even be handy
08:34 PM rue_mohr: 9? 6?
08:34 PM rue_mohr: hmm
08:34 PM Tom_L: i'd have to change the spindle tube etc and all the tooling
08:34 PM rue_mohr: no
08:34 PM Tom_L: i'm not gonna do that, i've got too much
08:35 PM rue_mohr: adapt your holder to hold the holder
08:35 PM rue_mohr: 1 sec
08:37 PM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002065773082.html <-- ER11, I think its small enough you could adapt to the whole chuck in your holder
08:38 PM rue_mohr: their really small
08:38 PM Tom_L: what's the shank diameter?
08:38 PM rue_mohr: 16mm
08:38 PM rue_mohr: like thats the outside of the chuck
08:39 PM Tom_L: chuck diameter or collet tube?
08:39 PM rue_mohr: thats the outside of the chuck
08:39 PM rue_mohr: it takes collets
08:39 PM Tom_L: i know that
08:39 PM rue_mohr: but I'm saying you could probably mount that in your holders
08:40 PM rue_mohr: :)
08:40 PM Tom_L: but would i hold that in a sherline mill holder?
08:40 PM rue_mohr: could be a few options
08:40 PM Tom_L: i'd want one already bored to that size because i have too much trouble with rouout
08:40 PM rue_mohr: a stub-shaft
08:40 PM Tom_L: that was my effort with the valenite holder
08:40 PM rue_mohr: hmm I wonder if I can make adapters for ya
08:41 PM Tom_L: what's the OD of the collet tube itself?
08:41 PM rue_mohr: its tapered
08:41 PM rue_mohr: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002035097551.html
08:41 PM Tom_L: 16 20 or25mm
08:41 PM rue_mohr: collets
08:41 PM rue_mohr: ER11 is 16mm
08:41 PM Tom_L: i know what youre talking abut
08:42 PM rue_mohr: k
08:42 PM Tom_L: so i'd need a 16mm holder
08:42 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:42 PM Tom_L: or 20
08:42 PM rue_mohr: do you have a drawing of your holders?
08:43 PM Tom_L: i dunno, i should... i made some
08:43 PM rue_mohr: the machine I have here has the thread, but I dont have anyting that uses it
08:43 PM Tom_L: 1" bar with a 3/4" 16 thread
08:43 PM rue_mohr: 16 isn't stndard for threaded bar is it?
08:43 PM Tom_L: i got a tap so it should be
08:44 PM Tom_L: just to clean the hole out
08:44 PM Tom_L: not to tap the thread
08:44 PM rue_mohr: mhm
08:44 PM rue_mohr: I have that internal cutter now
08:44 PM rue_mohr: not sure if it'd be ok with steel
08:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/thread_mills/Mill_Holder_Steel2.jpg
08:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/thread_mills/Mill_Holder_Steel1.jpg
08:47 PM rue_mohr: yea, so, one with a 16mm hole
08:47 PM rue_mohr: how deep is the thread
08:47 PM rue_mohr: is it landing on the top of the adapter?
08:47 PM Tom_L: you've got the other have ya know
08:47 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:47 PM rue_mohr: I could make some
08:47 PM rue_mohr: and do tool changes
08:47 PM Tom_L: it buts up against the end of the holder yes
08:47 PM Tom_L: you should
08:47 PM rue_mohr: ok
08:48 PM Tom_L: i forget the side thread
08:48 PM Tom_L: maybe 10-32?
08:49 PM rue_mohr: oh no I'm falling alseep
08:49 PM rue_mohr: didn't have my 2:00 Bcomplex
08:50 PM Tom_L: i tried some in aluminum but it just sticks in the tube
08:50 PM Tom_L: gaulds
08:50 PM Tom_L: i got a pile of em i dunno why i keep
08:56 PM Tom_L: ok, the pocket is .525" deep and the side thread is 10-32
08:57 PM Tom_L: 2 other opposing side holes to remove the holder
08:57 PM Tom_L: same size as the one in the spindle tube
08:58 PM Tom_L: however many threads you can get in .525" :)
09:00 PM Tom_L: looks like i did about 6 or 7 threads
09:03 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/thread_mills/holder_threads.jpg
09:09 PM rue_mohr: k
09:10 PM Tom_L: some of those aftermarket holders i got used a metric grub screw
09:10 PM Tom_L: and hex bar instead of round so you gotta use a wrench to take em off
09:12 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A12_New/A12_batch.jpg
09:12 PM Tom_L: you can't see the hex but the 3rd & 4th from the left are aftermarket
09:13 PM Tom_L: they quit making them
09:15 PM rue_mohr: oh
09:16 PM rue_mohr: oh damnit
09:16 PM rue_mohr: lost the rubarb again before having a chance to make a pie
09:16 PM rue_mohr: I really really really wanted to pull off a rubarb pie this year
09:17 PM aandrew: heh
09:17 PM aandrew: I haven't had rhubarb pie in forever
09:17 PM rue_mohr: no its awefull
09:17 PM rue_mohr: the plants are done now, I cant get any more
09:17 PM rue_mohr: the last of it was in the fridge setting up to make a pie
09:17 PM aandrew: that and my grandparents' gooseberry bush, I miss that too
09:17 PM rue_mohr: and it went bad before we did it and thats the 3rd year that I'v not made any food fromt hem
09:30 PM rue_mohr: I dont really htink the plants are ok, they completely die back at about this time of year and I dont hink they should
09:31 PM aandrew: I am trying to remember, but I swear both my grandmothers had rhubarb for most of the summer
09:43 PM rue_mohr: yea
09:51 PM Tom_L: mine did
09:51 PM Tom_L: i never had any pie though
09:53 PM rue_mohr: I dont know whats wrong with these plants that the die back now
09:56 PM Tom_L: i don't know a thing about rhubarb i was a little kid but i do remember them growing it
09:56 PM aandrew: hm, generally speaking (just searching online, you've probably already done that) they say rhubarb is a little tricky about water and although it likes heat and sun, too much will piss it off so partial shade is helpful in the summer
09:57 PM aandrew: apparently they can benefit from iron supplementation too... weird
10:59 PM smellsofbikes: Hey Rue: I'm curious about A: how you decided on the z axis geometry (distance between ways) to get the stiffness you wanted,
10:59 PM smellsofbikes: and B: what you'd like to use for a spindle.
10:59 PM smellsofbikes: I have a lot of mill tooling that fits my current sherline spindle
11:00 PM smellsofbikes: and alla the VFD spindles seem to be ERxx which don't fit, like, flycutters or mandrels for gear cutters.
11:01 PM smellsofbikes: Maybe people use separate CAT40 or whatever spindles, and then a VFD motor to drive it via belt? I dunno.
11:05 PM Tom_L: mmm i was supposed to tell or ask you something when you showed up but i forgot what it was
11:06 PM Tom_L: smellsofbikes, what sherline do you have?
11:07 PM smellsofbikes: Just a typical old 2000, with some reinforcement.
11:07 PM rue_shop2: smellsofbikes, !
11:08 PM Tom_L: i had the extended arm one
11:08 PM rue_shop2: smellsofbikes, I didn't do the upgrade to it, nor did the last owner!
11:08 PM smellsofbikes: Sorry, 5000. No arm.
11:09 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Motor_Mounted2.jpg
11:09 PM rue_shop2: I did my own build with an ER11 collet chuck
11:09 PM Tom_L: the spindle is all that's left of it now though
11:09 PM rue_shop2: :)
11:09 PM smellsofbikes: Rue: the one you're building, that you showed the demo Z axis, has an ER11?
11:09 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Spindle_motor2.jpg
11:09 PM rue_shop2: smellsofbikes, oh hah
11:09 PM rue_shop2: the 4x8 foot one
11:09 PM rue_shop2: its a full on wood router
11:10 PM smellsofbikes: Oh got it.
11:10 PM rue_shop2: I have other parts, to do a MT2 spindle
11:10 PM smellsofbikes: Giant reach!
11:10 PM rue_shop2: for a smaller metal targeted machine
11:10 PM smellsofbikes: Tom, that's a really nice setup.
11:10 PM rue_shop2: I have a few projects on the go :/
11:11 PM rue_shop2: toms is awesome
11:11 PM Tom_L: i lived with a sherline for many years with this as a goal
11:11 PM Tom_L: so it helped me build this one
11:12 PM smellsofbikes: That z axis is close to what I'm aiming for: two linear ways with a ballscrew between them.
11:12 PM Tom_L: then i stole it's spindle
11:12 PM Tom_L: you want alot of Z
11:12 PM smellsofbikes: I'm worried about getting chips all over the ways and ballscrew.
11:12 PM Tom_L: i wish i had more
11:12 PM Tom_L: cover them with neoprene sheet
11:12 PM smellsofbikes: I got the extended sherline Z axis, like 17"? That's why i added the big reinforcement behind the screw.
11:13 PM smellsofbikes: It's definitely more solid now.
11:13 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Way_Cover.jpg
11:13 PM smellsofbikes: But really the whole Z needs upgrading.
11:13 PM rue_shop2: 17"!?
11:13 PM rue_shop2: maybe you should consider a machine from scratch?
11:14 PM smellsofbikes: wistful sigh.
11:14 PM smellsofbikes: yeah
11:14 PM Tom_L: you'd be better off
11:14 PM Tom_L: i made mine from scrap from the scrap yard
11:14 PM rue_shop2: the one I have is ... 12"
11:14 PM smellsofbikes: So the problem with THAT is that where I live, it's pretty common to see Haas and Mazak full VMC's with ATC and everything for under $8K.
11:14 PM smellsofbikes: ...just, they're bigger than my whole shop.
11:15 PM smellsofbikes: so maybe I get one and just live in it.
11:15 PM Tom_L: iirc i got 7" travel
11:15 PM rue_shop2: wow
11:15 PM Tom_L: in Z
11:15 PM rue_shop2: but the one I did cost under $100
11:15 PM Tom_L: and they're all 3 phase
11:15 PM smellsofbikes: I believe I have 13" in Z, which is... some. Not enough for a decent coaxial indicator.
11:16 PM smellsofbikes: Yeah, three phase 440 or something ridiculous
11:16 PM rue_shop2: um, why do you need 17" z on a machine barely 6"x8" table space?
11:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Chip_Guard2.jpg
11:16 PM Tom_L: kindof an overview before i swapped motors out
11:16 PM smellsofbikes: maybe just buy the building they're in. There was a place with a monarch 20" x 12' lathe for $1K. I was like "and how much for the building?"
11:17 PM Tom_L: yeah if you can pull it off...
11:17 PM Tom_L: tooling will cost alot
11:17 PM smellsofbikes: It's a 17" way. The vertical is only like 12.5 because of loss from mounting and carriage.
11:17 PM rue_shop2: :( the jtag on the nortel switch doesn't answer
11:17 PM rue_shop2: oh yea
11:17 PM rue_shop2: but odd, mines 12"
11:18 PM rue_shop2: but how much z do you need?
11:18 PM Tom_L: more that i have
11:18 PM rue_shop2: the last few machines I'v given up, and done like 2" to 6"
11:18 PM Tom_L: :)
11:18 PM rue_shop2: cause, more than anything, I'm just cutting out thin material
11:18 PM Tom_L: and i added another pipe to raise it up
11:18 PM rue_shop2: (1/2" or less)
11:19 PM smellsofbikes: I like the flood coolant bucket with a tooling plate.
11:19 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Z-Riser_blocks.jpg
11:19 PM Tom_L: i did that so i could get tools over my vise too
11:19 PM smellsofbikes: I built something similar but not as nice for a specific job, and it worked okay. That's inspirational.
11:20 PM Tom_L: it's mist but yeah
11:20 PM Tom_L: i try to recycle some of it
11:20 PM smellsofbikes: How do you tram that Z?
11:20 PM Tom_L: first time i used an indicator on the table
11:21 PM smellsofbikes: Tom, sorry: what's the adjustment mechanism?
11:21 PM Tom_L: i've been working on that a bit recently
11:21 PM Tom_L: just shims
11:21 PM Tom_L: i didn't really think ahead on that one
11:21 PM smellsofbikes: You're both building stuff way more sophisticated than what I have.
11:21 PM rue_shop2: I do shims and boltdowns with margins
11:21 PM rue_shop2: hahah mines grbl
11:21 PM smellsofbikes: Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about tram adjustment.
11:21 PM smellsofbikes: rue, boltdowns with margins?
11:22 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
11:22 PM rue_shop2: oversized holes and large, thick washers
11:22 PM Tom_L: was the original design
11:22 PM Tom_L: and pretty much ended up that way
11:22 PM rue_shop2: the idea is that you can get it where you want it and lock it
11:22 PM rue_shop2: smellsofbikes, did you see my small 100%diy machine?
11:23 PM rue_shop2: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/projects/cnc4/slide.htm
11:23 PM rue_shop2: it that one
11:23 PM smellsofbikes: I didn't!
11:23 PM rue_shop2: I think I posted the link once ago
11:23 PM rue_shop2: china is selling cnc machines with plastic bushings, so I thought I'd try it
11:23 PM rue_shop2: it worked really well
11:23 PM Tom_L: you can look thru that cnc directory and see the whole build
11:24 PM rue_shop2: my site has navigatable directories too, if you step back, you can see the other machines I'v worked on building
11:24 PM smellsofbikes: rue, did I just see a 3d printed flex connector for a stepper to leadscrew, in brown?
11:24 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/
11:24 PM rue_shop2: I passed on that idea, but yea
11:24 PM Tom_L: starts there actually
11:25 PM smellsofbikes: ooof this is a lot of info. I'll dig through both of your pictures but I'm taking notes...
11:25 PM rue_shop2: we been around a long time and prolly not going anywhere
11:25 PM Tom_L: we're always here at some point
11:25 PM smellsofbikes: Hey. Why round rod ways, rather than supported rods, like I beams?
11:25 PM Tom_L: :)
11:26 PM rue_shop2: well, I cant square them up
11:26 PM Tom_L: i prefer the linear rails
11:26 PM Tom_L: stronger
11:26 PM rue_shop2: I tend to be able to get round in really nice, straight peices
11:26 PM Tom_L: but the round can be made to work good also
11:27 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Axis_Mount_Plates.jpg
11:27 PM Tom_L: i drilled those out on the sherline
11:27 PM Tom_L: in steps :)
11:28 PM Tom_L: the big one is to join the X Y axis together
11:28 PM smellsofbikes: Yeah, I've done a lot of bit by bit work on the sherline. I'm thinking about joining a local hackerspace just so I have access to a mill with a 50" table.
11:28 PM smellsofbikes: Coz it gets to be a drag realigning.
11:29 PM rue_shop2: damn, the cplds from the nortel switches aren't answering jtag
11:29 PM Tom_L: i used to run some big ones so i'm kinda used to what they do
11:29 PM Tom_L: the sherline was a big step down for me
11:29 PM rue_shop2: smellsofbikes, next next machine I'm going to use cold rolled flat bar
11:29 PM smellsofbikes: So same as with tramming the Z: what if I screw up on the saddle and the X and Y aren't exactly perpendicular. How do I fix that? Do I just make something like a hardinge UM where it can skew by design and then tram it?
11:29 PM Tom_L: i drilled a couple locating holes that would reach on each part of that plate
11:30 PM rue_shop2: smellsofbikes, I advise to not try to get anything perfect
11:30 PM smellsofbikes: I got to machining via Gingery, and he was really into using CRFS for his ways. It seems like a reasonable idea to use precision ground flat stock.
11:30 PM Tom_L: where you might have issue is on the Y being perp to the front face of the spindle
11:30 PM rue_shop2: get it close, and ridgid, make it adjustable
11:30 PM Tom_L: x will follow the spindle no matter where it is
11:31 PM smellsofbikes: Yeah. The adjustability is where i see a TON of engineering time being spent
11:31 PM Tom_L: i recently took mine apart and drilled the holes out so i could get mine closer
11:31 PM Tom_L: you could put adjustment screws with lock nuts but i didn't think about that at the time
11:32 PM rue_shop2: no
11:32 PM rue_shop2: just leave room for shims, or bolts that things can move around a bit under
11:32 PM rue_shop2: :( why wont the jtag answer
11:33 PM Tom_L: kinda like they do on light poles where they're mounted on bolts and not flat on the footing
11:33 PM Tom_L: maybe nobody's home
11:33 PM smellsofbikes: yeah, I'm leaning towards shims.
11:33 PM smellsofbikes: They seem stiffer.
11:33 PM Tom_L: that's what i did
11:34 PM Tom_L: my problem is i didn't have anything really to measure all that with
11:34 PM smellsofbikes: I've spent some time looking at Dan Gelbart's superlathe, where he uses chunks of granite and air bearings, and that's super cool and all, but I don't know how you build something like that, that handles shock loads well without bobbling all over the place.
11:34 PM smellsofbikes: I worked on an air bearing precision press.
11:34 PM smellsofbikes: and it bobbled all over.
11:35 PM Tom_L: air bearings are for light loads
11:35 PM smellsofbikes: and got crap in the air bearings and scored them.
11:35 PM Tom_L: unlike a cnc
11:35 PM Tom_L: that cuts chunks of metal
11:35 PM Tom_L: on a cmm yes but not on a cnc
11:35 PM smellsofbikes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrVdoOhu1Q
11:36 PM smellsofbikes: he's on a different plane of existence though
11:36 PM Tom_L: i've seen that one
11:36 PM rue_shop2: I was pondering hydraulic bearings
11:37 PM Tom_L: all the big ones nowdays use rails
11:37 PM smellsofbikes: so I'm pretty set on either linear ways or precision ground steel. My lathe has big flat ways, basically precision ground cast iron, and it's rock solid and really easy to clean up should I need to.
11:37 PM Tom_L: in fact i based alot of my design from looking at haas pics that i could find
11:37 PM Tom_L: yeah, box ways
11:38 PM Tom_L: those are better than the traditional v cut
11:38 PM smellsofbikes: Do you hand lubricate the existing ways on both of your machines?
11:38 PM smellsofbikes: Any thoughts on that?
11:38 PM rue_shop2: I do
11:38 PM smellsofbikes: coz like I notice oh yeah it's been two years since I've lubricated the ways on the sherline.
11:38 PM Tom_L: i hand lube but was gonna add a lube system but never did
11:38 PM smellsofbikes: and it'd be nice to have that semi auto
11:39 PM Tom_L: i use vactra 2
11:39 PM Tom_L: mobil
11:39 PM Tom_L: it's made for that purpose
11:40 PM Tom_L: ok this day is over for me
11:40 PM Tom_L: gnite
11:41 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, thanks again for the goodies!
11:41 PM rue_shop2: :)
11:41 PM rue_shop2: you deserve more!
11:42 PM smellsofbikes: Tom, thanks for the pics/guidance.
11:42 PM smellsofbikes: I really appreciate the advice from both of you.
11:42 PM rue_shop2: smellsofbikes, yea, dont be a stranger!
11:42 PM Tom_L: come around more often
11:43 PM rue_shop2: I'd like to hear more about your casting too
11:45 PM smellsofbikes: I'm really frustrated that my setup doesn't get hot enough to do brass.
11:46 PM smellsofbikes: And I'm really frustrated that when i try to do brass all I do is shoot a giant plume of zinc gas into the air.
11:46 PM rue_shop2: I tired to do brass once and ended up with a pile of ugly oxide
11:46 PM smellsofbikes: I have like 15kg of brass.
11:46 PM smellsofbikes: yeah.
11:46 PM smellsofbikes: Like the only way I ever got that to work was with a previous setup with a hotter flame, way smaller, and I'd melt copper and then drop zinc in and then immediately pour.
11:46 PM smellsofbikes: That worked okay.
11:46 PM smellsofbikes: But trying to melt brass is so far just wasting it.
11:47 PM rue_shop2: I have some brass around, but I use it for mixing into the aluminum
11:47 PM rue_shop2: makes it behave a bit better
11:47 PM smellsofbikes: I biult a gingery style foundry with the air feed going straight in the side for charcoal.
11:47 PM smellsofbikes: that's not a great design for a gas fired burner, like I have now.
11:47 PM smellsofbikes: behave better how? Less oxide? Better flow?
11:47 PM rue_shop2: I used to use diesel, but now just use propane with a "tiger torch"
11:48 PM smellsofbikes: Yeah. I've moved to propane.
11:48 PM rue_shop2: takes shape better, less bubbles
11:48 PM smellsofbikes: I built an oil burner for all the engine oil I have
11:48 PM smellsofbikes: but that stuff is toxic and nasty, it turns out.
11:48 PM smellsofbikes: propane is fast and clean and fairly cheap.
11:48 PM rue_shop2: yea, its more of kinda a plasic than oil
11:50 PM smellsofbikes: I'm still using a steel crucible for aluminum. I used graphite for my last attempt at brass.
11:50 PM smellsofbikes: So now the graphite crucible is like land of zinc oxide
11:50 PM rue_mohr: yea, mine is mostly stianless
11:51 PM rue_mohr: but the 2L crucibles are $$$
11:51 PM smellsofbikes: Did you buy a stainless crucible?
11:51 PM rue_mohr: no, I made it
11:51 PM rue_mohr: but surprise, the aluminum eats out the stainless faster than regular steel
11:51 PM smellsofbikes: I've been told they're way better. Aluminum dissolves plain carbon steel and it messes with the result.
11:51 PM smellsofbikes: Oh. Huh. I hadn't heard that.
11:51 PM smellsofbikes: Well, that's good to know.
11:52 PM rue_mohr: one of the fellows online said they worked at an aluminum place and yea, it eats stainless faster than carbon
11:52 PM smellsofbikes: ...huh actually I think I remember you mentioning that.
11:52 PM smellsofbikes: I need to take more notes!
11:52 PM rue_mohr: meh
11:53 PM smellsofbikes: Mine's made from 5mm thick steel tubing, so it should be around for a while.
11:53 PM rue_mohr: yep
11:53 PM rue_mohr: I was checking out the bottom of mine, which is normal steel, its lost a bunch just to O3
11:53 PM rue_mohr: (FeO3)
11:54 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/projects/smelter/slide.htm
11:55 PM rue_mohr: the refractory is just a mix of perlite, sand, and concrete
11:55 PM rue_mohr: thats some images right from the start
11:55 PM rue_mohr: so, lots of fails
11:56 PM smellsofbikes: My first round of refractory is half fire clay half sand.
11:57 PM smellsofbikes: It never cured well.
11:57 PM smellsofbikes: so it cracks and fails if it gets wet.
11:57 PM smellsofbikes: Second round is castable refractory from DAP intended for fireplace repair.
11:57 PM smellsofbikes: That stuff is *awesome*
11:57 PM smellsofbikes: Not cheap
11:57 PM smellsofbikes: but they sell it in 5 gal buckets
11:57 PM smellsofbikes: so I guess you could just ram a hole in the bucket and let it set up and go.
11:58 PM smellsofbikes: Huh. Interesting. I hadn't previously noticed that you suspend your crucible nearly at the top of the smelter.
11:59 PM smellsofbikes: I'll have to think about that.
11:59 PM smellsofbikes: I have a firebrick at the bottom the crucible sits on so it's like 20cm lower than the top, and I have a top that I put on it that has just a tiny hole for exhaust gas, and is otherwise refractory.
11:59 PM smellsofbikes: It takes a while to heat up.