#garfield Logs
Jul 10 2021
#garfield Calendar
12:21 AM rue_shop7: aandrew, coldfire?
12:45 AM rue_mohr: ok, lets seeif I can make a kicad package for a XC95288XL
12:45 AM rue_mohr: (BGA)
12:59 AM rue_mohr: oh, there is already a bga wizard installed
01:14 AM rue_mohr: oh my complex.
01:14 AM rue_mohr: so I dont want to make a package I want to make a part...
01:33 AM rue_mohr: ok I need a datasheet
02:53 AM rue_mohr: ok, I only created the edge pins tho
02:53 AM rue_mohr: honestly, the next-in-row would be fair play, cause its only 1mm pitch, but
02:54 AM rue_mohr: I got 49 io just doing the outside
02:54 AM rue_mohr: so thats fine.
03:08 AM rue_mohr: oooh boy, just the jtag routing looks like an adventure
10:46 AM aandrew: rue_mohr: what about coldfire?
11:08 AM rue_shop7: have you worked with it?
11:08 AM Tom_L: morning
11:09 AM rue_shop7: huh, the network switches I'm tearing down for CPLDs have power supplies that are 48V 7.5A
11:09 AM rue_shop7: thats probably enough for cnc servos
11:09 AM Tom_L: i'd hope so
11:09 AM rue_shop7: 360w..
11:09 AM rue_shop7: not steppers tho
11:09 AM rue_shop7: dc servos
11:09 AM Tom_L: but reducion
11:09 AM rue_shop7: I have 10 more to get rid of
11:09 AM rue_shop7: well
11:10 AM Tom_L: ok, all the hot jobs are done
11:10 AM rue_shop7: I might use vacuumcleaner motors with mechanical reduction
11:10 AM rue_shop7: Tom_L, non-relaxing weekend?
11:10 AM Tom_L: yard
11:10 AM rue_shop7: mmmm
11:10 AM rue_shop7: grass is back to a few inches?
11:10 AM Tom_L: no longer
11:11 AM rue_shop7: I got thinking
11:11 AM rue_shop7: I might be able to fit a P servo into the CLPD from these things
11:11 AM rue_shop7: the 95288
11:12 AM Tom_L: she wanted the yard to look good this year so i planted seed. once the seed came up she said she wanted a pool in the yard. i said NO!
11:12 AM rue_shop7: and the power supplies might do for the servos
11:12 AM rue_shop7: so, I might be able to turn some network swtches into dc servo controllers
11:12 AM rue_shop7: hmm
11:12 AM rue_shop7: is a pool what killed the grass last time?
11:13 AM Tom_L: no
11:13 AM Tom_L: but i know who would get to maintain it also
11:13 AM rue_shop7: so, the trick with the power supply on these is that its -48V
11:14 AM rue_shop7: moon is supposed to come over and we make a steam engine this weekend
11:14 AM rue_shop7: survival challange
11:16 AM rue_shop7: the power supplies are also Delta, which isn't great
11:20 AM Tom_L: wye?
12:12 PM rue_mohr: hah no, brand, Delta makes the worst switching power supplies
12:12 PM rue_mohr: but a LOT of them
12:12 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: years and years and years ago, yes. I don't remember if I sent you or polprog my arnewsh coldfire dev boards
12:14 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/Untitled.png
12:14 PM rue_mohr: ...
12:14 PM aandrew: I also had a dragonball (coldfire) linux PDA that I don't remember if I sent off or the kids destroyed
12:14 PM rue_mohr: hmmm
12:14 PM rue_mohr: there is my BGA board so far, still trying to work out what my goal is
12:15 PM rue_mohr: I think: 3.3V reg, osc module, jtag, and a bunch of pins broken out
12:15 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: that doesn't look *terrible* although you may end up doing some via-in-pad to hit those crystal pins
12:15 PM rue_mohr: I have 22 of these chips
12:15 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
12:20 PM rue_mohr: yea, there is some ugly stuff I cant avoid, but not much
12:20 PM rue_mohr: I'm aiming at 4 layer
12:20 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: any reason in particular you don't want to go four layer?
12:20 PM rue_mohr: pretty sure osh can do it
12:20 PM aandrew: ah you are
12:20 PM rue_mohr: I think I could do it in 2 tho
12:20 PM aandrew: what trace/space and drill specs are you aiming for?
12:20 PM rue_mohr: I'll be right up against the limits
12:20 PM polprog: aandrew: you sent me some coldfire dev boards yes
12:20 PM Tom_L: no surprise there
12:20 PM rue_mohr: but I need to nail down the schematic first
12:20 PM rue_mohr: I been doing lots of leanring just on how to work with bgas
12:20 PM aandrew: right right
12:20 PM rue_mohr: like I didn't know about the fact they skip letters
12:20 PM rue_mohr: :)
12:20 PM polprog: whats that board rue?
12:20 PM rue_mohr: cpld
12:20 PM aandrew: BGAs are a lot easier than they appear to be, but you're upping the challenge level with lower-spec boards
12:20 PM rue_mohr: the ones I have from the network switches
12:20 PM rue_mohr: aandrew, this is also a 1mm pitch bga
12:20 PM polprog: oh, noce
12:20 PM rue_mohr: I should be laughing
12:21 PM polprog: hmm, i have to ask them
12:22 PM Tom_L: get your socket first, i found they don't all mount the same
12:23 PM polprog: yeah, i have to see if i can get a sane controller first
12:23 PM polprog: st makes a nice easy one but its not available until next year summer
12:24 PM polprog: and there is a nice chinese once not carried by any distributors at all, only aliexpress
12:24 PM polprog: i was to shoot them an email to get the datasheet with i2c registers
12:24 PM Tom_L: if you're making several you want a good source :)
12:26 PM polprog: yes
12:26 PM Tom_L: when i was making programmers i had to switch and redo the board a bit
12:27 PM Tom_L: those were mini b though
12:39 PM polprog: Yeah, i need to see if im gonna make this project at all
12:45 PM rue_shop7: see i already have the chips
12:45 PM rue_shop7: I should dead-bug one
12:46 PM Tom_L: i managed to make them work but the new one had alignment pins and i had to cut them off until i redid the boards
12:52 PM aandrew: balls
12:52 PM aandrew: P410 controller in the colocated machine died -- I lost anything you said after I talked about losing my balls in the BGA fixture
01:11 PM Tom_L: great balls of lead!
01:12 PM Tom_L: aandrew, not really
05:05 PM rue_mohr: it works
05:06 PM Tom_L: prove it
05:06 PM Tom_L: steam engine or the dead bug?
05:06 PM rue_mohr: the steam conversion on the engine
05:06 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1200191.jpg
05:06 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1200192.jpg
05:06 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1200193.jpg
05:06 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1200194.jpg
05:06 PM rue_mohr: video will come in a bit
05:07 PM Tom_L: did moon show?
05:08 PM rue_mohr: yes
05:08 PM rue_mohr: we did it up
05:08 PM rue_mohr: thats him
05:24 PM rue_mohr: https://twitter.com/RueNahcMohr/status/1413981260838359040
05:50 PM rue_shop2: well?
06:01 PM Tom_L: i think you're havin too much fun
06:01 PM rue_shop2: heh
06:01 PM rue_shop2: anythings that not sleeping is good
07:24 PM rue_shop2: well, gee, I feel pretty good that we got that achived
07:27 PM Tom_L: fun exercise/distraction
07:28 PM rue_shop2: yea, I need to make one big enough for a truck now
07:28 PM rue_shop2: I cant convert the other truck I got to electric
07:28 PM rue_shop2: so, steam
07:29 PM Tom_L: why not electric?
07:29 PM rue_shop2: $30000 for battiers
07:29 PM Tom_L: that's it?
07:29 PM rue_shop2: $2000 for a motor
07:29 PM Tom_L: go pull a tesla from the salvage yard..
07:29 PM rue_shop2: not putting $32000 into a used truck to get an electric
07:29 PM rue_shop2: I cant
07:29 PM Tom_L: oh yeah that's right, none will survive a crash.. they'll burn to the ground
07:30 PM rue_shop2: I'm not in a place where that happens
07:30 PM rue_shop2: and the scrappers want big money for the battery arrays now in vancouver
07:30 PM Tom_L: wood burner
07:30 PM rue_shop2: yea
07:30 PM Tom_L: what's that gasifier thing they do?
07:30 PM rue_shop2: simpler, cheaper, more available
07:31 PM rue_shop2: gassifier is great and all but system complexity is really high
07:31 PM rue_shop2: more breakdowns
07:31 PM Tom_L: oh
07:31 PM Tom_L: gas isn't so bad afterall
07:32 PM rue_shop2: how about $6/gal
07:32 PM Tom_L: i wonder how much worse the polution problems would be if there were as many electric as there is gas on the road
07:32 PM rue_shop2: oh wait, its that now here, I didn't work out what its going up to
07:32 PM Tom_L: battery disposal, explosion etc
07:33 PM rue_shop2: lithium is in short supply now
07:33 PM Tom_L: along with the electric plant to produce it to start with
07:33 PM rue_shop2: there were only 3(?) mines
07:33 PM rue_shop2: ^^
07:33 PM Tom_L: btw what happened at lytton?
07:33 PM rue_shop2: who?
07:33 PM Tom_L: didn't they blow up?
07:34 PM rue_shop2: who?
07:34 PM Tom_L: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/10/world/canada/canadian-wildfire-british-columbia.html
07:34 PM rue_shop2: oh the place
07:34 PM rue_shop2: it burned down
07:35 PM Tom_L: oh i thought they were talking about a lytton plant
07:35 PM Tom_L: appliance
07:35 PM rue_shop2: hu?
07:35 PM rue_shop2: no it was a town
07:35 PM rue_shop2: pop ~ 300
07:35 PM Tom_L: https://www.lyttonsappliance.com/
07:35 PM rue_shop2: hub for a lot of neighbouring communities
07:35 PM Tom_L: those
07:36 PM Tom_L: i thought it was their plant
07:36 PM rue_shop2: no I dont think they did anything there
07:38 PM rue_shop2: can you get peices of teflon large enough there to make a ~4" piston seal with? (about .4" thick?)
07:39 PM Tom_L: maybe
07:39 PM rue_shop2: back in the steam days they didn't have plastic
07:39 PM rue_shop2: so I have an advantage
07:39 PM Tom_L: i dunno if the local plastics stock teflon that size
07:39 PM rue_shop2: yea I dunno
07:39 PM rue_shop2: I might have to work out using teflon sheet
07:40 PM Tom_L: most of that is used as barstock
07:40 PM Tom_L: i dunno what would use a sheet
07:40 PM rue_shop2: slices of barstock work
07:40 PM Tom_L: that would be some big barstock
07:40 PM Tom_L: i have some under an inch
07:40 PM Tom_L: maybe 6' or so
07:40 PM rue_shop2: heh, gonna need something big for a truck
07:41 PM Tom_L: doubt it would wear good
07:41 PM rue_shop2: when we popped the head on that engine, its cylinder was scored to hell
07:41 PM Tom_L: pretty soft
07:42 PM Tom_L: i bet
07:42 PM rue_shop2: its got a LOT of blowby, just running on air like that
07:42 PM Tom_L: it looked pretty rugged
07:42 PM rue_shop2: I put the valve cover on, and it slowed way down due to the crank case pressure
07:42 PM rue_shop2: :S
07:42 PM rue_shop2: it doesn't matter tho
07:43 PM rue_shop2: it was just a competency test
07:43 PM rue_shop2: we passed
07:43 PM rue_shop2: pressure->rotation
07:43 PM Tom_L: but it took 2 of ya
07:43 PM rue_shop2: doesn't matter
07:44 PM rue_shop2: I'd modified the cam up a long time ago to try that engine as a 2 stroke
07:44 PM rue_shop2: didn't know the cylinder was that bad
07:44 PM rue_shop2: so, same cam, steam engine
07:45 PM rue_shop2: at 100psi it should put out 500 inch-lbs peak torque
07:45 PM rue_shop2: (just disregard the loss due to leakage)
07:45 PM rue_shop2: I have an intake plate for it when the cnc finishes this next peice
07:46 PM Tom_L: you need to boost that up to a respectable speed i think
07:47 PM rue_shop2: the hose I"m usiing is small
07:47 PM Tom_L: the cnc
07:47 PM rue_shop2: when I get this intake plate made, it should do better
07:47 PM rue_shop2: oh that
07:47 PM rue_shop2: when I pushed it harder the bits failed
07:47 PM rue_shop2: its not even close the the top speed on the motor
07:48 PM rue_shop2: about 1300rpm now
07:48 PM rue_shop2: when I scaled them up, the bit heated up too much and started sticking
07:49 PM Tom_L: not rigid enough
07:49 PM Tom_L: you find what it will do then stick with it
07:49 PM Tom_L: i did on the sherline
07:50 PM rue_shop2: 85mm/min at 1300rpm was max
07:50 PM rue_shop2: too much heat if it went any faster
07:50 PM rue_shop2: aluminum would stick and bits would break
07:50 PM Tom_L: 3ipm?
07:50 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:50 PM rue_shop2: and 0.2mm layers
07:53 PM Tom_L: have you tried soapy water as coolant?
07:54 PM rue_shop2: its not set up to catch coolant
07:54 PM Tom_L: well, mine leaks all over
07:54 PM rue_shop2: gives me an idea tho
07:55 PM Tom_L: i should fix it but haven't
07:56 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what to seal it with because i remove the pannels when i change vise etc
07:59 PM rue_shop2: "the volume of water expands 1700 times when it is converted to steam at 100o C"
08:00 PM Tom_L: i should thin my coolant more since i use a mister
08:01 PM rue_shop2: so, if I have fire at 1600c
08:01 PM rue_shop2: and want water at 200c
08:01 PM rue_shop2: I wonder what HP I should target
08:01 PM rue_shop2: I wish I knew driving power
08:53 PM rue_shop2: ok, making intake plate
09:26 PM rue_mohr: kicad is interetsing as it takes the wire route I ask it for as a suggestion and not law
09:27 PM rue_mohr: kicad, where are you going with the trace THAT I WANT TO BE OVER HERE...
09:34 PM rue_mohr: Ever seen via-pads for BGA?
09:35 PM rue_mohr: I wonder if it would just suck all the solder away
09:38 PM rue_mohr: its disturbing that kicad doesn't stretch trace endpoints when moving things
09:40 PM rue_mohr: what time do normal people eat supper?
10:04 PM rue_shop7: dead bug
10:04 PM rue_shop7: hmm
10:19 PM rue_mohr: they dont use blind vias
10:19 PM rue_mohr: hmm
10:19 PM rue_mohr: I could cut these chips out and probably connect to them
10:20 PM rue_mohr: no rue, they use 12 layer boards
10:20 PM rue_mohr: but vias
10:20 PM rue_mohr: hmm
10:41 PM Tom_L: 5-6pm
10:41 PM Tom_L: so i got all inspired and cut a new back plate for the mill table
10:42 PM Tom_L: need to figure out how to seal it so it will quit leaking so much
10:42 PM Tom_L: polycarbonate
10:46 PM Tom_L: need to make something to take the stress off the bolt holes too
10:46 PM Tom_L: maybe a piece of aluminum cut in a gradual V with the screw in the middle so it spreads the force out
10:59 PM rue_mohr: :)
10:59 PM rue_mohr: https://twitter.com/RueNahcMohr/status/1414068255338102786
10:59 PM rue_mohr: I cut an adapter for the intake, MUCH BETTER!
11:00 PM Tom_L: yeah that would seal alot better
11:01 PM rue_mohr: and the blowoff gun I was using doesn't pass air well
11:01 PM Tom_L: does it start on it's own or do you spin it?
11:02 PM Tom_L: i may cut some brackets to relieve the pressure on the plastic right by the bolt heads
11:22 PM rue_shop2: if its in the dead spot I have to kick it