#garfield Logs
Nov 15 2020
#garfield Calendar
12:07 AM rue_mohr: polprog, you ok?
12:17 PM rue_mohr: any thoughts on the servo controller?
12:17 PM polprog: looks sensible
12:17 PM polprog: i didnt really think much about it..
12:17 PM rue_mohr: the freq shifting on the 555 worked great!
12:17 PM polprog: im trying to finish mech earlier than usually
12:17 PM polprog: oooh
12:18 PM rue_mohr: I wasn't sure if the diode drop would be ok, but the 555 operates well within the margins anyhow
12:25 PM polprog: what's the schematic?
12:51 PM rue_mohr: hah, I took a nice little break during the 3 seconds it took my computer to open the editor
12:51 PM rue_mohr: polprog, the one with the 555 and the servo?
12:52 PM polprog: yeah
12:52 PM rue_mohr: its an 8 bit rom controlled servo
12:53 PM rue_mohr: you put in the 8 bits (or 5 bits on the later version) and it sets the servo that pos
12:53 PM rue_mohr: the rom does a speed change on the 555 to time the long pulse out with less bits
12:53 PM rue_mohr: did twitter hide the thread?
12:54 PM * Tom_L didn't know twitter sewed
12:54 PM rue_mohr: :)
12:54 PM rue_mohr: so tom, last night
12:55 PM rue_mohr: I took a rom, and programmed it as a pwm comparitor for hobby servos
12:56 PM rue_mohr: to reduce the bit count, I had the rom slow the 555 down between pulses
12:56 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1180039.jpg
12:56 PM rue_mohr: I did it 8 bit, but realized that the servo only responds to the MSB 5 bits
12:56 PM rue_mohr: so that schematic is a redo with that in mind
12:57 PM Tom_L: ever find a way to publish all them?
01:01 PM rue_mohr: when I get the energy I'll prep them all up and do a big scan at the govt office my guru works at
01:39 PM rue_mohr: hahah, trying to work out why the value was 10 instead of 16
01:39 PM rue_mohr: hahahahahah
01:39 PM rue_mohr: (answer was in hex....)
01:39 PM Tom_L: no
01:39 PM Tom_L: the answer is either 0 or 1
01:44 PM rue_mohr: ok, but one half of my code works
01:44 PM rue_mohr: void spliceValueFromField(uint32_t field, uint16_t *value, IntList_t *bits) {
01:45 PM rue_mohr: it can take an input with an arbitrary bit composition, and re-compose it
01:45 PM rue_mohr: now I have to go the other way
01:50 PM aandrew: nice, my 11yo is quite interested in mechanical movements now
01:51 PM aandrew: gotta keep him stocked up on basic materials. I wonder if I can buy meccano rails in bulk for cheap
01:51 PM aandrew: nice flat steel with lots of holes
01:55 PM aandrew: hah
01:56 PM aandrew: you can buy bulk parts but they're just as expensive as new
01:56 PM rue_mohr: I'd hit up just motors and batteries if he's starting
01:56 PM rue_mohr: I make it
01:56 PM rue_mohr: did you have a cnc?
01:56 PM rue_mohr: do you have printer?
01:56 PM rue_mohr: I cant remember everyone
01:57 PM rue_mohr: hey! I should send you a bunch
01:57 PM rue_mohr: just a sec
01:57 PM aandrew: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Meccano-Erector-Set-Modern-Parts-Plastic-Bushing-Pulley-Spacer-3oz-Bulk-Lot/203180960488 3oz of plastic bits for $15 + $22 shipping? fuck that
01:57 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: no CNC, do have 3d printer though
01:57 PM aandrew: and we have motors and gears and so on
01:58 PM rue_mohr: no I made some stuff
01:59 PM rue_mohr: ... maybe I took it down
01:59 PM rue_mohr: cut-n-nut
02:00 PM rue_mohr: hah I did
02:00 PM rue_mohr: its aluminum sheet with a 1/8" hole grid
02:00 PM rue_mohr: have a few thicknesses of sheet
02:01 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/dscn4731.jpg
02:01 PM rue_mohr: aandrew, ^^
02:01 PM Tom_L: i had an erector set
02:02 PM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/cut-n-nut.jpg
02:02 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: whoa
02:02 PM rue_mohr: aandrew, interested?
02:02 PM aandrew: interesting stuff, where do you get that?
02:02 PM rue_mohr: just sheets, I have a bit of a tutorial on doing thigns with it
02:02 PM rue_mohr: I did it on the cnc
02:03 PM rue_mohr: I have a bunch of it that I'v not used in ages
02:03 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr makes toys to make toys
02:03 PM rue_mohr: I can send you a bunch
02:03 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, that realization when you find out the tool you just made is great for making tools :)
02:04 PM aandrew: that'd be awesome
02:04 PM rue_mohr: ok, I dont know if i have your address
02:04 PM rue_mohr: I think I didn't do my cardboard yet
02:04 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Meccano-Construction-Motorized-Building-Education/dp/B000GOF5S2
02:04 PM rue_mohr: still on highgrove?
02:07 PM rue_mohr: I lost ya
02:08 PM Tom_L: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MaMAAOSw8dJeSxJx/s-l400.jpg
02:08 PM Tom_L: i still have that
02:08 PM rue_mohr: I'm not familiar with that one
02:08 PM Tom_L: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/157063105741823278/
02:08 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: yes that is the address
02:09 PM rue_mohr: aandrew, ok, I'll try to get it sent tommorow
02:09 PM aandrew: Tom_L: I was looking on amazon, it seems that all the cool toys are pricey because STEM is a hot topic
02:09 PM Tom_L: most kids today are too stupid for power toys
02:09 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, aah, wood, ok
02:09 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: that'd be awesome, let me know how much it'd cost, I can e-transfer or something
02:10 PM rue_mohr: ah, I'll see if it even comes out to anything
02:10 PM rue_mohr: do you have access to screws/nuts/threaded rod?
02:13 PM aandrew: oh yeah I have a bunch of that stuff. I've been buying small quantities of smooth rod from fastenal and they also have threaded rod
02:13 PM aandrew: got some acme thread/nut from ali earlier in the year too
02:13 PM rue_mohr: ok, iirc its designed for #6-32
02:13 PM rue_mohr: so M3, 4-40 and 6-32 should all be happy
02:14 PM aandrew: yep, I have a ton of M3, I've kind of standardized on it
02:15 PM rue_mohr: with nuts?
02:15 PM rue_mohr: I cant get a good supply of M3 nuts out here
02:16 PM aandrew: I have spae-naur here in town so I have access to practically anything I could dream of, as long as I can find it in their catalogue which is a royal PITA
02:17 PM aandrew: I try to have M2, M3, M4 in hex socket cap screws with flat washers and nuts in stock
02:17 PM rue_mohr: I suppose I should make a supply of M3 3d-printed nuts...
02:17 PM aandrew: picked up a bunch of 2mm, 3mm and 4mm pins too from Ali a while back (for gear axles)
02:17 PM aandrew: 3D printed nuts? I guess for light duty work
02:18 PM aandrew: I'd grow frustrated with pulling the threads out I think
02:18 PM rue_mohr: :)
02:24 PM rue_mohr: !!! it works
02:24 PM rue_mohr: ok
02:25 PM aandrew: I do *love* brass inserts and putting metal nuts into plastic
02:25 PM rue_mohr: clean it u some
02:25 PM aandrew: what is working?
02:25 PM rue_mohr: I have two functions for doing random bit fields
02:25 PM aandrew: Tom_L: whoa that looks awesome
02:25 PM rue_mohr: incase you have a 4 bit value thats bits 2,6,4,11 of a field
02:26 PM rue_mohr: I'll be able to correct for the horrid bit order on roms
02:29 PM rue_mohr: void spliceFieldFromValue(uint32_t *field, uint16_t value, IntList_t *bits) {
02:29 PM rue_mohr: void spliceValueFromField(uint32_t field, uint16_t *value, IntList_t *bits) {
02:30 PM rue_mohr: I need to modify my fn for adding values to an intlist tho
02:30 PM rue_mohr: I have no ...
02:30 PM Tom_L: aandrew, as a kid it was
02:32 PM rue_mohr: I like how the old toys brought industry home to the kids
03:07 PM rue_mohr: ok, this is looking good (the bitsplicing code)
03:08 PM rue_mohr: http://paste.debian.net/1172589/
03:09 PM rue_mohr: if I'm right, that bit of code there, obsoletes 15 years of lots of code
03:22 PM * rue_mohr looks at Tom_L
03:22 PM polprog: yeah, i se
03:22 PM polprog: see*
03:22 PM rue_mohr: ah :)
03:23 PM rue_mohr: most of the work doing the state machine and lookup tables is organizing the buts
03:23 PM rue_mohr: bits
03:24 PM polprog: cool
03:24 PM rue_mohr: http://paste.debian.net/1172596/ lines 22 thru 25 are just taking A apart, then lines 45 thru 48 put it all back togethor
03:24 PM rue_mohr: thats what the functions do, in a bit of an easier way
03:25 PM polprog: mm
03:25 PM rue_mohr: and every project is like that with these...
03:26 PM rue_mohr: http://paste.debian.net/1172597/ lines 6 thu 8 take it all apart, (this one is too simple to need to be put back togethor)
03:26 PM rue_mohr: as I did it there, I have to use continious chunks
03:26 PM polprog: ok, lectures done
03:26 PM rue_mohr: you know how the order of address lines on a rom goes 12,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0 ?
03:26 PM polprog: now i have to watch the .... excercises
03:27 PM polprog: yeah
03:27 PM rue_mohr: well with those functions, now it doesn't matter
03:27 PM polprog: yeah, you can repack the rom now for any line order
03:27 PM rue_mohr: I can make a value with 12, 7, 6, 5 with 12 being the LSB
03:29 PM rue_mohr: its just too bad it cant be automatic
03:34 PM rue_mohr: I may tune this more...
03:35 PM polprog: you could add a command that remaps data and address lines
03:35 PM polprog: like the pin definitions in GALs
03:35 PM rue_mohr: kinda *but
03:36 PM rue_mohr: why do it in table2ihex when, with the function library, you can do it in C?
03:36 PM rue_mohr: both compiled
03:36 PM rue_mohr: I might have taken a wrong turns quite a while ago while chasing the wrong goal
03:36 PM rue_mohr: phppld made me think
03:37 PM polprog: well, to add an option in table2ihex for any rom with nay address line order
03:37 PM polprog: any*
03:37 PM rue_mohr: but you see, phppld doesn't have this either
03:37 PM polprog: mm
03:37 PM rue_mohr: yea
03:37 PM rue_mohr: cause, if you have to compile it, why does the compiler matter
03:37 PM rue_mohr: one thing I lost in my goals was a simulator too
03:37 PM polprog: now i wonder what is the smallest rom that can do some sensible thing
03:38 PM rue_mohr: but I can do that as a seperate project
03:38 PM polprog: whether i could implement it as a diode rom
03:38 PM rue_mohr: indeed
03:38 PM polprog: and whether i could make a diode rom with faster access times than a 27cxxx
03:38 PM rue_mohr: its *not* easy to blow the diodes in an 8x8 led array, so I don't reccomend that
03:38 PM polprog: hmm
03:38 PM polprog: no, i have a bunch of 1n4148
03:39 PM polprog: 50?
03:39 PM polprog: i think i bought 50
03:39 PM rue_mohr: :)
03:39 PM polprog: i can buy another 100 or so, they were like $3 per pack or thereabouts
03:39 PM polprog: ok, back to mech
03:39 PM polprog: i WANT to get this off my head
03:39 PM polprog: i want to clean the damn desk up and do some electronicals
03:39 PM rue_mohr: whats after mech?
03:39 PM polprog: quantm mech
03:40 PM rue_mohr: haha ph no
03:40 PM rue_mohr: haha oh no
03:40 PM polprog: :P
03:40 PM polprog: the mech prof in this video showed us how lagrange equations can be used to derive... the equation for an LC tank circuit
03:40 PM Tom_L: some just like to be punished
03:40 PM rue_mohr: quantum mech "hey!? where did my particle go?"
03:40 PM polprog: now im gonna email him how to do active electronics with that approach
03:41 PM polprog: check in the frames of reference drawer :)
03:42 PM rue_mohr: I should get up and do soemthing
03:42 PM rue_mohr: but
03:42 PM rue_mohr: its cold out
03:42 PM rue_mohr: and I'm almost down to having to strip printers
03:42 PM rue_mohr: and thats a bunch of work I'm not totally into right now
03:43 PM polprog: thename of this subject is "intro to classical and quantum mech"
03:43 PM polprog: so were nearly done with classical
03:43 PM polprog: he does explain it pretty well
03:43 PM polprog: its not that difficult
03:44 PM rue_mohr: just make sure you know where the voltage develops in a thermocouple :)
03:45 PM polprog: :)
03:45 PM polprog: it's right at the very end :)
03:45 PM rue_mohr: heh
03:51 PM polprog: you know how messy a mechanics workshop can be
03:51 PM rue_mohr: my shop is a fine mess itself
03:51 PM rue_mohr: I need another 800 square feet of space
03:52 PM polprog: imagine how hard is it for a quantum mechanic's when they loose a 10mm socket and it shows up in their friends workshop two months late
03:52 PM polprog: later*
03:52 PM polprog: or two months before ;v
03:52 PM rue_mohr: :)
03:52 PM polprog: friend got a flat and he moved out
03:52 PM polprog: well, its his parent's spare flat
03:52 PM polprog: he says "im looking for a roomie"
03:53 PM rue_mohr: were you sharing?
03:53 PM polprog: no
03:53 PM rue_mohr: ah
03:53 PM polprog: i told him "you know how my room looks like, id not have enough space for all the junk in this flat alone"
03:53 PM polprog: its a nice, big flat
03:53 PM polprog: 7th floor in a prefab building
03:53 PM polprog: 4th from top
03:54 PM rue_mohr: k
03:54 PM polprog: i think i could have a flat in a building like that, but i rather live alone
03:54 PM polprog: or a freestanding house
03:54 PM polprog: like you have, in a nice area
03:54 PM polprog: with some spare land
03:55 PM rue_mohr: the new building I want to do is 2400 square feet, 50/50 split shop and house
03:55 PM rue_mohr: but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be 50/50
03:55 PM rue_mohr: 223m^2
03:55 PM polprog: thats plenty
03:55 PM rue_mohr: hah
03:55 PM rue_mohr: I thought 500feet^2 would be enogh
03:56 PM rue_mohr: 46m^2
03:57 PM polprog: 50-60 m2 is a standard two bedroom in a block here
03:58 PM polprog: https://dor.pl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/bloki-730x490.jpg
03:58 PM polprog: this sorta bulding
03:58 PM polprog: building*
03:59 PM rue_mohr: hmm small
03:59 PM rue_mohr: for a shop
03:59 PM polprog: yeah, smallish
03:59 PM rue_mohr: but small for a house too
03:59 PM polprog: but most flats built now are like sub 40 sqm
03:59 PM polprog: developers call them "microapartments" probably because "chicken pen" is not in the building code
04:00 PM rue_mohr: :)
04:00 PM rue_mohr: my 46m^2 shop was laid out to be a rental
04:00 PM polprog: yeah, thats what these are designed for too
04:00 PM polprog: 60 sqm with one bedroom rearranged for a shop could be neough
04:00 PM polprog: enough*
04:00 PM rue_mohr: I do fire inpections on apartment buildings
04:00 PM rue_mohr: there are a lot of people who dont have any stuff
04:01 PM polprog: the only other issue is narrow kitchen, ie i can touch both walls at once.. and still have my arms bent a bit
04:01 PM rue_mohr: years with like a dining table, a bed and a radio
04:01 PM polprog: (in friend's flat)
04:01 PM rue_mohr: yea
04:01 PM polprog: we have a similar flat in another city thats laid out nicer
04:01 PM rue_mohr: whats the monthly cost on one of those?
04:01 PM polprog: its a bit bigger, that one was for a 2+1 family, friend's is 2 people
04:01 PM polprog: hmm, good question
04:02 PM polprog: depends on the location
04:02 PM polprog: i should check that actually
04:02 PM rue_mohr: is it about what 344 loafs of bread cost?
04:03 PM rue_mohr: I'm of the understanding that a loaf of bread has the same value regardless of the economy
04:03 PM polprog: pretty much
04:03 PM rue_mohr: see if you can find out, I'm curious
04:04 PM rue_mohr: here bread is about $3.50/loaf, cheap rent is about $1200/mo
04:04 PM polprog: warsaw, ca 55 m2, is $450 - $730 per month depending on where it is
04:04 PM polprog: thats two bedroom in a block
04:04 PM rue_mohr: right, but I dont know a loaf of bread to compare the economy to
04:05 PM rue_mohr: it implies about $1
04:05 PM polprog: hmmm, yeah, about $1 for a kg loaf of bread
04:06 PM rue_mohr: that should also relate it to income levels
04:07 PM polprog: this one is close..
04:07 PM polprog: https://www.otodom.pl/oferta/trzy-osobne-pokoje-dobra-komunikacja-ID46CQR.html#958e0b5868
04:07 PM polprog: $650 per mo, but its an old block
04:08 PM rue_mohr: do you need a new place to live?
04:08 PM polprog: no, my parents arent kicking me out
04:08 PM rue_mohr: oh no
04:08 PM rue_mohr: but your in school
04:08 PM polprog: yeah
04:08 PM polprog: im just curious what income would i need to have to be able to rent
04:08 PM rue_mohr: wow, you alsmost have to open the sliding door to put your feet up from the couch
04:09 PM polprog: yeah
04:09 PM polprog: the older ones had a bed hidden in the cupboard
04:09 PM polprog: but thats old crap
04:09 PM rue_mohr: how much longer are you in school?
04:09 PM polprog: 2 years
04:09 PM rue_mohr: 8-|
04:10 PM rue_mohr: you can barely chat, you cant work and school
04:10 PM polprog: https://www.otodom.pl/oferta/mieszkanie-do-wynajecia-warszaw-ochota-ID47Ily.html#4bf1ee3f30 heres a way nicer one for the same price
04:10 PM polprog: heh, true
04:10 PM polprog: thats why im just looking at what the state of the market is
04:10 PM rue_mohr: if they kick you out, you have to quit school and get a job
04:10 PM polprog: out of curiosity, not out of necesity
04:11 PM polprog: my current side jobs of teaching programming and linux could pay well if they were more often
04:11 PM polprog: now its like, 4 hours per weekend every second weekend
04:12 PM polprog: if i was doing, like, 6 hours a day every working day i could afford this kinda flat and have some margin
04:12 PM rue_mohr: well, you have to skills to make bomb timers for international sale (high markup!)
04:12 PM polprog: haha
04:12 PM polprog: but i want to finish undergrad studies. this is a promising profession
04:12 PM polprog: or at least i hope so
04:13 PM rue_mohr: arg
04:13 PM Tom_L: have a backup in your pocket just in case
04:14 PM polprog: right now the side gig is a backu
04:14 PM polprog: backup*
04:14 PM polprog: there are some places which look for programming/computer tutors
04:14 PM polprog: mostly for posh kids
04:14 PM polprog: "we are gonna teach your 12 year old how to make web apps"
04:14 PM polprog: i mean, if they pay well i wont even ask why a 12 year old would need to know PHP
04:14 PM polprog: or python
04:14 PM polprog: or whatever
04:16 PM polprog: im pretty sure they teach more of coding than actual programming
04:16 PM rue_mohr: *blink* it worked!?
04:17 PM rue_mohr: start a school with crazy high tuition, scale grades till a high percentage of people pass and advertize what a good school it is cause of the high grades
04:17 PM polprog: friend is in a far worse case
04:17 PM polprog: the flat hes in is his parents but he has some ongoing quarrel with his mother (shes weird) and he has to pay them rent
04:17 PM rue_mohr: "any manager would hire a student with grades like THESE!"
04:18 PM polprog: hes a humanities type, and pedagogy didnt work out for him, he dropped out
04:18 PM polprog: now he's cathing various jobs as a shop clerk or whatnot
04:18 PM polprog: i wonder if i could help him if he needed
04:18 PM polprog: so far he's good
04:23 PM rue_mohr: make sure you call them "tamper proof event timers"
04:23 PM rue_mohr: thousands of dollars each
04:23 PM polprog: yes, with builin calendar and water resist 100m like the casio watches
04:23 PM rue_mohr: ok, I cleaned up the function calls, you can put the bits right into them now
04:24 PM rue_mohr: uint32_t field = 0x15A8; // field of broken position bits
04:24 PM rue_mohr: uint16_t value; // aggrigated value
04:24 PM rue_mohr:
04:24 PM rue_mohr: spliceValueFromField(field, &value, 5, 0, 1, 2, 5, 11);
04:24 PM rue_mohr:
04:24 PM rue_mohr: printf("%X\n", value);
04:24 PM rue_mohr: cause you really only call them once anyhow
04:26 PM rue_mohr: ok
04:26 PM rue_mohr: wow
04:26 PM rue_mohr: I can't feel it, but I told myself this would be a good thing
04:26 PM rue_mohr: I need to make a program to use it
04:27 PM rue_mohr: maybe I should use it to make the 5 bit version of the servo control
04:27 PM rue_mohr: being that project is alrady framed out
04:32 PM polprog: i want to make a card cage project
04:32 PM polprog: ive got enough loose PCBs laying around
04:32 PM polprog: i could get a card cage with a power supply and make my projects fit that cage
04:33 PM polprog: no more jumper wires to screw terminals to power them up, just slide the card and have it running on the bench
04:33 PM polprog: for stuff like the 5ns pulse gen, or the like
04:34 PM polprog: could als be useful for any moving things
04:34 PM polprog: i still have that autonomous/RC barge project in the back of my head
04:39 PM rue_mohr: :)
04:40 PM aandrew: ahh amazon delivered my M2 and M3 hex brass spacer kits
04:40 PM aandrew: they have some inserts too but I have 200 of each from ali, although those have a 25% reject rate right out of the bag
04:41 PM aandrew: a full 1/4 of them are oval or on the verge of disintegrating when you try to use them
04:41 PM aandrew: rue_mohr: I haven't been paying too close attention: what are you doing for servo control with a ROM?
04:42 PM rue_mohr: 555 (dual frequency) -> cd4040 -> rom -> servo
04:42 PM rue_mohr: in order to trim down the bit count, i needed to change freqs on the 555
04:43 PM rue_mohr: it worked like a charm
04:43 PM rue_mohr: I'm thinking up controllerless things
05:15 PM aandrew: I'm not getting it
05:15 PM aandrew: is it to preprogram a sequence of servo positions?
05:20 PM Tom_L: building blocks as i see it
05:20 PM Tom_L: rue_mohr, anything from Z?
05:21 PM rue_shop2: nothing from Z
05:21 PM rue_shop2: aandrew, it was a "can I?"
05:21 PM rue_shop2: I leaned something new, how to change a 555 clock rate
05:21 PM rue_shop2: and it worked, which I was pretty sure it would
05:21 PM polprog: well, how do you do it? VCO?
05:22 PM rue_shop2: I'm pondering having one play an audio clip from a serial eeprom next
05:22 PM rue_shop2: polprog, I used diodes to switch in/out an extra resistor
05:22 PM rue_shop2: did you see the post?
05:22 PM polprog: no
05:22 PM rue_shop2: ugh, I think twitter is hiding things
05:22 PM polprog: h,, diodes
05:22 PM polprog: hmm
05:23 PM rue_shop2: http://ruemohr.org/%7Eircjunk/tempimage/p1180039.jpg
05:23 PM rue_shop2: see the 555 there, well, the far left diode is switched by the logic line from the rom
05:23 PM rue_shop2: so that I can get the 17.5ms without a billion counts
05:24 PM polprog: oh, clever
05:24 PM rue_shop2: look for the "can I control a hobby servo with a rom?" thread
05:25 PM rue_shop2: https://twitter.com/RueNahcMohr/status/1327897160772243457
05:27 PM polprog: wow nice
05:27 PM polprog: also, this servo
05:27 PM polprog: i thought you *made* an actual servo :P
05:27 PM polprog: its awesome
05:27 PM rue_shop2: hah, sorry
05:28 PM rue_shop2: I kinda cheated on that aspect
05:29 PM polprog: nah, its ok
05:29 PM polprog: :P
05:29 PM polprog: hmm, i should make...
05:29 PM Tom_L: rue_shop2, you need a whiteboard app so you can just save your schematics instead of having to scan them
05:29 PM polprog: i should make an fsm
05:29 PM polprog: i think those are photos
05:29 PM rue_shop2: thats paper and a camera tho
05:29 PM Tom_L: i see
05:29 PM polprog: you should see if you have a fax with a USB plug, chances are it would work as a top feed scanner
05:29 PM rue_shop2: its fast :)
05:29 PM Tom_L: hah
05:30 PM polprog: i have a panasonic one that can top feed, i just slap a stack of papers and it scans all of them by itself
05:30 PM Tom_L: not if you wanna share
05:30 PM rue_shop2: I have a bunch of office multi machines, but nothing to recieve the scans
05:31 PM rue_shop2: and they would all be in raw awefull format
05:31 PM polprog: i think if it supports sane then you could save to whatever
05:32 PM polprog: mine runs over TWAIN but there is no linux support
05:32 PM polprog: the cable doesnt reach anyway
05:32 PM rue_shop2: yea, but have you ever seen the size of tiffs embedded in a pdf?
05:32 PM polprog: hmm
05:33 PM polprog: i scan assignments at 150 dpi, but the scanning program must compress them somewhat
05:33 PM polprog: i can see slight jpeg compresson
05:33 PM polprog: let me check
05:33 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: sure, but is that the idea? the ROM emits the next position and the servo moves to it?
05:33 PM rue_shop2: aandrew, not on that one
05:33 PM polprog: 6 a4 pages, 2 megs
05:33 PM Tom_L: you could fax em all to me
05:33 PM polprog: black and white though
05:33 PM rue_shop2: the rom is generating the waveform for the position that the dip switches are set to
05:33 PM Tom_L: dunno if mine does fax to pdf?
05:33 PM Tom_L: is that even a thing?
05:34 PM polprog: some bigger monsters can do NFS or samba shares i think
05:34 PM rue_shop2: faxes output, internally, tiff
05:34 PM Tom_L: you might be able to make parts of it out ....
05:34 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: ... but a servo takes a command...
05:34 PM rue_shop2: when you get a pdf from one, its a tiff wrapped in a pdf
05:34 PM rue_shop2: aandrew, pwm servo
05:34 PM polprog: mine is technically a fax but no faxing gets done, it just behaves like USB scanner
05:35 PM rue_shop2: what mine lack is the advanced pdf tools
05:35 PM Tom_L: mine aren't advanced but it does pdf
05:35 PM rue_shop2: I wonder if vectorizing them all would work
05:35 PM rue_shop2: set up a script
05:35 PM polprog: vectorizing is hard to automate
05:35 PM polprog: i mean
05:35 PM rue_shop2: it would take a few days (I'm taking about scanning my schematics book)
05:36 PM polprog: its easy but i had mixed experience with it
05:36 PM Tom_L: by the time... you could hand scan
05:36 PM polprog: you almost always have to tewak
05:36 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: sure, but still, you send it a command and the servo takes care of making the motor move to make the position error zero
05:36 PM polprog: tweak per page
05:36 PM rue_shop2: aandrew, yes
05:36 PM polprog: i had more luck in OCRing print scans
05:36 PM rue_shop2: the rom just generates the waveform from the switch position
05:36 PM Tom_L: my early ocr stuff sucked
05:36 PM polprog: what im thinking about, since you have looseleaf pages too, you could just throw them all into a top feed scanner and leave it
05:36 PM polprog: and it would be done in 30 mins
05:36 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, you dont like every 7th and 5th character OCRd?
05:37 PM rue_shop2: and half the diagram?
05:37 PM Tom_L: i was quite amazed how google translated that chinese though
05:37 PM Tom_L: rue_shop2, did you see that?
05:37 PM aandrew: polprog: I just use an iphone app (Readdle's Scanner Pro) which does OCR (and upload to anything including my own WebDAV) ... works amazing
05:37 PM rue_shop2: polprog, but it would be like a 1.5G document
05:37 PM aandrew: worth every single penny I paid, which wasn't that much
05:37 PM polprog: well, no
05:37 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, didn't see that
05:37 PM polprog: im telling you if you save them as good JPG's it will be small
05:37 PM polprog: how many pages is that
05:38 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/BLDC/PBL%20Modbus%20BLDC%20Protocol.pdf
05:38 PM rue_shop2: oh god, its a 3" binder thats now FULL?
05:38 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/PDF/BLDC/PBL%e7%b3%bb%e5%88%97%e7%9b%b4%e6%b5%81%e6%97%a0%e5%88%b7%e7%94%b5%e6%9c%ba%e9%a9%b1%e5%8a%a8%e5%99%a8ModBus%e9%80%9a%e8%ae%af%e5%8d%8f%e8%ae%ae.pdf
05:38 PM Tom_L: from that
05:38 PM polprog: o_o
05:38 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: a decent scanner will convert them to 1 or 4 bit and compress the everloving shit out of those TIFFs
05:38 PM aandrew: but if it's handwritten the OCR will be very poor
05:39 PM polprog: even if what goes over USB is tiff you can convert on the fly
05:39 PM Tom_L: even formatted it pretty good
05:39 PM aandrew: Tom_L: I haven't used ModBus in ages :-)
05:40 PM Tom_L: alot of VFDs use it in linuxcnc
05:40 PM aandrew: oh for sure, it's very popular
05:40 PM Tom_L: mine has the plug for it so i wanted to see if it was there
05:40 PM aandrew: and completely wild west which is why everyone uses it
05:40 PM Tom_L: they sent me the docs in chinese because they didn't have an engrish one
05:41 PM Tom_L: so i threw it at translage.google
05:41 PM Tom_L: i don't think i'll use it
05:41 PM Tom_L: but i wanted to know
05:42 PM Tom_L: aandrew, you saw the test threads?
05:43 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV7crK24eCE
05:43 PM aandrew: Tom_L: holy cow you're threading that fast
05:43 PM aandrew: how'd it work out
05:43 PM Tom_L: 500 rpm
05:43 PM Tom_L: works good
05:44 PM Tom_L: linuxcnc will follow the spindle even if it varies
05:44 PM aandrew: you'd have to make sure your Z is well calibrated to match the spindle speed
05:44 PM aandrew: ah
05:44 PM Tom_L: not really :)
05:44 PM Tom_L: that's the wonder of linuxcnc
05:45 PM Tom_L: lemme show you the first one...
05:45 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g99lUtjLfMU
05:46 PM Tom_L: watch the lag in that and they still come out great
05:46 PM Tom_L: that was with the old sherline motor on the actual sherline
05:56 PM aandrew: Tom_L: does linuxcnc "let go" of the z motor so it just gets pulled in?
06:03 PM rue_shop2: gutters are full
06:04 PM rue_shop2: of leaves...
06:04 PM rue_shop2: hands are frozen...
06:05 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: my dad found gutter guards that work well, he tried a bunch of different ones before finding ones that worked as intended
06:05 PM aandrew: the aperture width was pretty important
06:10 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: found a book that might help you: https://mega.nz/file/IAN2GDpb#Opjtp1i449n5GvJZ7iirO5PngThPgQd1VauPYN33HZk
06:10 PM polprog: what's that book
06:11 PM polprog: haha
06:11 PM rue_shop2: I"m supposed to ahve torn the house down by now
06:12 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: well, I guess until you do perhaps some gutter guards are in order
06:13 PM polprog: what do you mean torn the house down?
06:13 PM rue_shop2: its a trailer with a bad addition, rotting supports over a septic system
06:14 PM rue_shop2: did I mention the R2 insulation and the aluminum wiring?
06:14 PM polprog: which house
06:14 PM rue_shop2: mine
06:14 PM polprog: the big one?
06:14 PM rue_shop2: its 1200 square feet
06:15 PM rue_shop2: aandrew, I'd like to do a book on pulse circuits
06:15 PM polprog: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/house/V568152_101_12.jpg ?
06:15 PM polprog: i have a book on semiconductor pulse circuits
06:15 PM rue_shop2: but I'd like one with all sorts of 555 circuits too
06:15 PM rue_shop2: yea that thing
06:15 PM rue_shop2: polprog, yea, blue?
06:15 PM polprog: no, something in polish..
06:16 PM aandrew: polprog: his house looked a bit different when I ws there
06:16 PM polprog: i dont remember if i took it from grandpa
06:16 PM rue_shop2: yea man its changed a lot
06:16 PM rue_shop2: thats the image they used for the listing when I bought it
06:16 PM polprog: well, i can only see whats in ircjunk
06:16 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: aha
06:16 PM rue_shop2: see the dirt on the left?
06:17 PM rue_shop2: they were trying to deal with the septic systems field leaching out on the bank by the steps
06:17 PM polprog: :) http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/house/dscn8419-doorbell.jpg
06:17 PM rue_shop2: the whole left side of the house is built *over* most of the septic field
06:17 PM polprog: where are you gonna live when you tear it down?
06:18 PM rue_shop2: there are a LOT of issues to work out
06:18 PM rue_shop2: that one is easy, I can build a 100foot^2 shed to stay in
06:18 PM Tom_L: aandrew, no it synchronizes it acording to what you tell it
06:18 PM rue_shop2: what to do with 1200feet^2 of stuff is a larger issue
06:18 PM Tom_L: rue_shop2 needs a gutter bot
06:19 PM polprog: how does it look like now
06:19 PM Tom_L: aandrew, it's actually driven at the proper rates
06:19 PM rue_shop2: hmm
06:19 PM Tom_L: polprog, push it
06:19 PM Tom_L: the button
06:19 PM Tom_L: and see
06:21 PM polprog: clicking thru these pictures, maybe ill learn something about building houses
06:21 PM Tom_L: aandrew, the spindle encoder has an index pulse as well as A & B
06:22 PM aandrew: Tom_L: right, so linuxcnc knows exactly where the spindle is and at what rate it's turning, and it's moving Z at the correct rate for the tap? impressive
06:22 PM Tom_L: yep
06:22 PM aandrew: I suspect things would go poorly if you programmed the wrong pitch in :-)
06:23 PM Tom_L: it not only has that tap function but you can also sync axis for other purposes
06:24 PM aandrew: I think one of my "sooner" projects should be a small/cheap CNC to practise on
06:24 PM Tom_L: it's alot of fun
06:24 PM Tom_L: especially since i've been around the big ones
06:24 PM aandrew: get one of those cheap 4016 or whatever base systems off ali and then slowly build it out
06:25 PM aandrew: yeah I have to make this bridgeport come alive yet
06:25 PM aandrew: -ENOTIME
06:25 PM aandrew: but I want to learn to use it manually first before i throw a computer at it
06:25 PM Tom_L: i've done both
06:26 PM rue_shop2: ooo bridgepost
06:26 PM rue_shop2: bridgeport rue
06:26 PM rue_shop2: yea... oooo...
06:27 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: you need to clear out an approx 8x8 corner of someplace to put it first
06:27 PM Tom_L: it would fill in just like a sink hole
06:28 PM Tom_L: never happen
06:29 PM Tom_L: aandrew, here's my whole setup: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Control_Pannel1.jpg
06:29 PM rue_shop2: I have a milling machine in someone elses garage
06:29 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: https://imgur.com/a/cjzrVlv found that a while back
06:29 PM rue_shop2: its an OLD busybee
06:30 PM aandrew: Tom_L: nice, it looks like a combo lathe/mill
06:30 PM rue_shop2: I think I blocked imugr from my router...
06:30 PM Tom_L: rotary head
06:30 PM Tom_L: manual
06:30 PM polprog: goodnight
06:30 PM polprog: 1:30! thats progress :)
06:31 PM Tom_L: we'll get polprog to build one before it's over
06:31 PM polprog: cnc or house?
06:31 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:31 PM rue_shop2: polprog, tell me when you can play some day eh?
06:31 PM Tom_L: both?
06:31 PM polprog: what's over :P
06:31 PM polprog: sure, ill tell you
06:31 PM polprog: well, i could use both..
06:31 PM Tom_L: you need a workshop before a house
06:32 PM rue_shop2: both at same time
06:32 PM polprog: ^
06:32 PM rue_shop2: 2400'^2, 1200 of it house and 1200 workshop
06:32 PM rue_shop2: or not*
06:32 PM Tom_L: don't listen to rue_shop2
06:32 PM rue_shop2: maybe 80/20
06:32 PM Tom_L: he's got 15 things going at once
06:32 PM rue_shop2: yea but I can only remeber 2 at a time
06:33 PM rue_shop2: I have massive amount of cleanup backlogged
06:33 PM Tom_L: i suppose i could go clean up the config file now that it's working
06:33 PM rue_shop2: if I can clear enough of the work table I can strip down 2 or 3 printers form the deck
06:33 PM rue_shop2: which means I can fit the new cnc on it
06:33 PM Tom_L: so rue_shop2 i've got an almost complete sherline with 2 motors in a box now
06:33 PM rue_shop2: the 4x8 one I'v not worked on in a year
06:33 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, yea I know
06:34 PM Tom_L: the one motor is new ish
06:34 PM rue_shop2: and you could make a new spindle block for it with your new machine
06:34 PM Tom_L: a live tooling attachment
06:35 PM Tom_L: add a stepper to the rotary
06:35 PM Tom_L: find some 5 axis cad cam....
06:35 PM rue_shop2: I want to make a rom controlled i2c rom audio clip player
06:46 PM Tom_L: you're kinda into these programmable chips lately
06:49 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: ff
06:49 PM Tom_L: spacex is launching today to the ISS
06:50 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: dad says "Smart Screen Gutter Guard, box has a pic of Mike Holmes on it", Canadian Tire product The leaf guard is "Smart Screen Gutter Guard." I got it at Canadian Tire Store. Product # 064-5104-2.
06:50 PM aandrew: Box has pic of Mike Holmes on it.
06:50 PM aandrew: wow
06:50 PM aandrew: that was a fail of a paste
06:50 PM aandrew: but you got the info :-)
06:50 PM TermMoon: rue_shop2: If you want to come get that propane sometime, its at the end of my drive way.
06:50 PM aandrew: Tom_L: yep I was watching the launch
06:50 PM aandrew: first crewed mission to ISS on SpaceX I think
06:50 PM Tom_L: on the tube now, delayed...
06:50 PM Tom_L: i see it's already over
06:50 PM aandrew: had the stream playing while i was cleaning
06:51 PM aandrew: yep
06:51 PM aandrew: launched at approx 7:30 Florida time, 12 minutes in the crew module was separated from second stage and on its own at 27000km/h, and stage 1 had already landed on the boat
06:51 PM Tom_L: i think my kid makes some spacex parts
06:51 PM aandrew: nice
06:52 PM Tom_L: amongst others
06:53 PM Tom_L: lockheed, gulfstream, etc
07:08 PM aandrew: very nice
07:08 PM aandrew: my 19yo is up at Canadore doing an aviation maintenance program. I'm hoping he figures out this will bore the shit out of him longterm and goes into something more engineering
07:18 PM aandrew: rue_shop2: the imgur link was just a drawing showing that the bridgeport wants like 7' along two walls and 8' across the front
07:24 PM Tom_L: my youngest thought he wanted to do A & P but went into cad cam and machining instead
07:59 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, are they almost done giving him extra training?
08:00 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, these are just rom chips
08:00 PM rue_shop2: aandrew, yea, disposable house tho, not into lots of guttergaurd money
08:00 PM rue_shop2: some 1/2" mesh would keep most of it out
08:00 PM Tom_L: he's going in next for manual machining i think
08:01 PM Tom_L: going for 2 associates
08:01 PM rue_shop2: TermMoon, I'm feelin better, I dont know if I'm save yet
08:01 PM Tom_L: you didn't get the virus did you?
08:01 PM rue_shop2: TermMoon, anythint left? how did the roof go?
08:02 PM rue_shop2: Tom_L, I got some kinda cold that mostly lasted like 2 days
08:02 PM rue_shop2: so, dunno
08:02 PM Tom_L: everything is 'it' nowdays
08:03 PM rue_shop2: does anyone do manual anymorore tom?
08:03 PM Tom_L: ^^ he's the one that took 3rd in the nation at a work skills competetion
08:03 PM Tom_L: some do yes
08:03 PM Tom_L: my friend still does
08:04 PM rue_shop2: prodution or 'jobber' ?
08:04 PM Tom_L: fixes stuff his old shop screws up or 3rd ops they can't do
08:04 PM rue_shop2: not sure I know what jobber is
08:04 PM Tom_L: both
08:04 PM Tom_L: their stuff is production
08:04 PM Tom_L: but they're down to 3 on days now
08:04 PM Tom_L: my oldest got a job there for like a month before covid and got laid off
08:05 PM Tom_L: after his 1st one laid him off
08:05 PM Tom_L: for the same reason
08:05 PM Tom_L: jobbers do short runs of anything
08:05 PM Tom_L: or one offs
08:09 PM rue_shop2: k
08:09 PM rue_shop2: well apparently nobody is making breakers
08:09 PM rue_shop2: maybe its time for personal shops to do the production
08:10 PM rue_shop2: factories and big companies anre't
08:10 PM Tom_L: breakers?
08:10 PM Tom_L: there a shortage?
08:10 PM rue_shop2: the CEOs are bathing in the proffits from not paying employees
08:11 PM Tom_L: they take advantage when times are slow like this
08:15 PM rue_shop1: they can nonally reep profits from not having to pay staff, they can apply for government financial assistance
08:16 PM Tom_L: here, if they do they have like a year to pay it back to the employees in time
08:16 PM rue_shop1: I really wish someone made a 2k EEPROM in a 20 pin narrow DIP
08:16 PM rue_shop1: they aren't paying out, I sawr an article
08:16 PM rue_shop1: there are loopholes
08:16 PM rue_shop1: people are unemployed and broke all over the place
08:18 PM Tom_L: more beggars on the street than i've ever seen
08:19 PM Tom_L: nearly every major intersection
08:20 PM rue_shop1: without something smart, the system is gonna collapse in on itself
08:22 PM Tom_L: i ended up using FF0 FF1 & I on my pid loop which i thought was odd
08:24 PM rue_mohr: hmm
08:24 PM rue_mohr: well I have a rom controller thing to try, but need to work out the error amp for my power supply so I can finish it
08:25 PM rue_mohr: 6:30, supper would be a good idea
08:32 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L,
08:32 PM rue_mohr: https://twitter.com/PatrickHerd/status/1328117437603008512
08:33 PM rue_mohr: I think its a bigger motor than yours...
08:42 PM Tom_L: skunkworks has one tapping something like 1.5" tap
08:45 PM rue_shop1: ooof
08:46 PM Tom_L: he's got a big horizontal linuxcnc conversion
08:53 PM Tom_L: rue_shop1, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E3PMooch1k
08:58 PM rue_mohr: horix...
09:01 PM Tom_L: that one definitely has more HP
09:06 PM rue_mohr: I gotta wonder how many times the bit can take the thermal stress
09:14 PM Tom_L: depends what they are made of
09:14 PM Tom_L: carbide loves heat
10:29 PM rue_mohr: polprog, I think I replaced table2ihex with C
10:29 PM rue_mohr: its not a lot easier to use, but its way more powerfull
11:07 PM rue_mohr: I feel like I want to make a square root table now :)