#garfield Logs

Nov 14 2020

02:02 AM rue_shop1: ok, there I finished the new current sensor for the power supply
02:18 AM rue_shop1: so next I need to make the regulator board
02:18 AM rue_shop1: and I have a design issue to deal with first
03:15 AM rue_shop1: I shouldn't complain about the gals.... PALs have support for like.... 2 terms?
04:10 AM Tom_L: :)
04:13 AM rue_shop1: sweeet, found another GAL in the parts boards
04:13 AM rue_shop1: at this rate, I wont need used ones from china
04:17 AM Tom_L: that one's not used?
04:18 AM rue_shop2: it is
04:18 AM rue_shop2: but the china ones prolly are too
04:18 AM Tom_L: what did they used to put on early MB?
04:18 AM rue_shop2: just plain logic chips
04:19 AM rue_shop2: ?
04:19 AM Tom_L: i had one that came with a spare set
04:19 AM Tom_L: like 286 vintage maybe?
04:20 AM rue_shop2: not sure
04:21 AM rue_shop2: and I found some 1M and 4M ram chips
04:21 AM rue_shop2: static ram
04:22 AM Tom_L: i may have had some of those on my 68332 board
04:22 AM Tom_L: smaller
04:22 AM rue_shop2: interesting
04:22 AM rue_shop2: wonder what they were?
04:22 AM Tom_L: and on the 6811 board
04:24 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/pdf/68hc11/bb2man6.pdf
04:24 AM Tom_L: wow i forgot that was even on my site
04:24 AM Tom_L: google found it
04:25 AM Tom_L: https://portlandrobotics.org/newsletters/issue09.pdf
04:25 AM Tom_L: that was the original one
04:25 AM Tom_L: i have at least one of each
04:25 AM rue_shop2: do you mean the ram or the other logic chips?
04:25 AM Tom_L: all of it
04:25 AM Tom_L: board & chips
04:26 AM rue_shop2: ah, lets see
04:26 AM rue_shop2: hc11,
04:26 AM rue_shop2: 574 is kinda advanced :)
04:26 AM rue_shop2: er 573
04:26 AM rue_shop2: 32k ram chip,
04:26 AM Tom_L: one of them had a boot rom or something. i forget now
04:26 AM rue_shop2: address decoder, misc gate and max232
04:26 AM rue_shop2: that ones got a ram chip
04:27 AM rue_shop2: I got a LOT of 386 cache chips,
04:27 AM rue_shop2: great static ram
07:11 AM polprog: https://twitter.com/RueNahcMohr/status/1326004475476127746?s=19
07:11 AM polprog: i keep forgetting what editor do you use, and why is the font so small
07:11 AM polprog: Joe?
07:12 AM polprog: grhrhh im going on a walk now, then maybe ill clean up the bench and see if i have any interesting stuff to play with
07:13 AM polprog: maybe ill strip some boards too
11:02 AM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV7crK24eCE
12:06 PM rue_mohr: I use nedit, I can see really good, so I keep a small font so I can fit lots on a line
12:06 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, oh its just a tap!
12:06 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, did it track it right?
12:07 PM rue_mohr: looks like it did!
12:07 PM Tom_L: yeah
12:07 PM rue_mohr: wow
12:07 PM Tom_L: don't know what the noise is, it only does it during tapping
12:07 PM Tom_L: besides the resonance off the belt cover
12:49 PM TermMoon: rue_mohr: wow.exe
12:53 PM rue_mohr: yea and that makes a ROM image to do THAT CODE on a memory chip
12:53 PM rue_mohr: eh?
01:44 PM rue_mohr: oh he can do persistant variables with global
01:46 PM rue_mohr: iiiinteresting
01:47 PM rue_mohr: I started mine before php perl, and python even existed
01:53 PM rue_mohr: TermMoon, so?
01:54 PM rue_mohr: phppld has a problem with bit-packing too
01:55 PM rue_mohr: looks like its just you and me rue
01:55 PM rue_mohr: ok, so
01:56 PM rue_mohr: so, combo, builts sets of factors and states
01:56 PM rue_mohr: it could totally set up a table for you
01:56 PM rue_mohr: would that fill the gap?
01:56 PM rue_mohr: well you can merge the two too
01:56 PM rue_mohr: and have commands that build rules for you?
01:56 PM rue_mohr: yea
01:57 PM rue_mohr: tracking changes could be evil
01:57 PM rue_mohr: how about a flag on 'artificial' rules?
01:57 PM rue_mohr: but you need to track the deeper source
01:57 PM rue_mohr: well if you had the other commands added in its all there
01:58 PM rue_mohr: either way we have a toolchain with much of a bidirectional flow
02:01 PM rue_mohr: combo falls down on factors that just have open numberical states
02:01 PM rue_mohr: we need some kinda 'allocate this many bits'
02:24 PM rue_mohr: almost want to be able to build a factor from a bit position definition
02:25 PM rue_mohr: there is a conflict here between making it easy to use by having it do the work for you, and being able to control the process
02:25 PM rue_mohr: yea we need a better bit packing method
02:26 PM rue_mohr: or just a mode flag
02:26 PM rue_mohr: oh, like ... auto vs manual
02:28 PM rue_mohr: autofactor ?
02:28 PM rue_mohr: I think you would need control then for what order they are applied
02:28 PM rue_mohr: why am I the only one doing this?
02:29 PM rue_mohr: ssh, just keep going
02:30 PM rue_mohr: so then it revolves around if the design dictates, or is dictated by the software design
02:30 PM rue_mohr: yea and you end up in both
02:30 PM rue_mohr: ok, so here is another elbow
02:30 PM rue_mohr: what about factors made of discretely chosen bits?
02:30 PM rue_mohr: idea
02:30 PM rue_mohr: yea
02:31 PM rue_mohr: how about we auto the factor sizes and apply WHERE the bits are mapped as a seperate entity
02:31 PM Tom_L: ok
02:31 PM rue_mohr: but what about backwards
02:31 PM rue_mohr: hows your end going tom?
02:31 PM Tom_L: it's still attached
02:32 PM rue_mohr: I will want to see theaded styrofoam :)
02:32 PM rue_mohr: I still want...
02:32 PM Tom_L: don't think i have any actually
02:32 PM rue_mohr: ugh
02:32 PM rue_mohr: pull some off the foundation of the neighbours house?
02:33 PM rue_mohr: if he catches you ,tell him you will replace it really soon
02:33 PM rue_mohr: ok idea
02:33 PM rue_mohr: you specify the order the bits are packed
02:33 PM rue_mohr: no, that wont work for discrete
02:34 PM rue_mohr: its almost like it needs to be another layer
02:35 PM rue_mohr: oh rue, the hardware store closes in 4 hours, if you need anything
02:37 PM rue_mohr: ok, what goal are we at here
02:37 PM rue_mohr: we want to add factor and state autobreakdowns to table2ihex
02:37 PM rue_mohr: ok
02:38 PM rue_mohr: do you want the rules auto-added?
02:38 PM rue_mohr: not unless they are dynamic, incase I change my mind on a factor or state
02:38 PM rue_mohr: ok
02:39 PM rue_mohr: so we need to add factors, states, arbitrary bit-mapping, and a hidden layer to table2ihexx
02:39 PM rue_mohr: ~no~
02:39 PM rue_mohr: hmm
02:40 PM rue_mohr: well, the chap that used php had a good point
02:40 PM rue_mohr: it does incorperate all the programing pallette quite nicely, but you know what happens when you use other peoples code...
02:41 PM rue_mohr: how about embedded python?
02:41 PM rue_mohr: you DO know why its php, right?
02:41 PM rue_mohr: yea yea, web coding everyone knows it
02:42 PM rue_mohr: what if we take this from combo
02:42 PM rue_mohr: then I need to be able to make enum'd states, and bulk unnamed ones
02:43 PM rue_mohr: and the rule system
02:43 PM rue_mohr: do we even need the litterals?
02:43 PM rue_mohr: no
02:43 PM Guest31998 is now known as aandrew
02:43 PM rue_mohr: so the 2 programs take on different directions
02:44 PM rue_mohr: hmm, python eh?
02:44 PM rue_mohr: do you want to try to work with phppld?
02:45 PM rue_mohr: do you know how long before php changes and it doesn't work anymore?
02:45 PM rue_mohr: how about long enough for you to learn what you need to know to use it and write something of your own
02:45 PM rue_mohr: the coding takes a lot of time you know
02:45 PM rue_mohr: yup, and time is limited
02:45 PM rue_mohr: and I'm reserverd about other peoples code
02:46 PM rue_mohr: the code you wrote taught you what you need, long before php and perl and python, you can adpot that work now that you know its what you need
02:47 PM rue_mohr: sounds like buying a power supply instead of making one
02:47 PM rue_mohr: yes, but in the process of making one you learn what your needs are
02:48 PM rue_mohr: so, side by side, rule system vs php code
02:48 PM rue_mohr: your doing the same things in the rule system as he's doing in the code
02:48 PM rue_mohr: but he's breaking everything down into bits, and you know you dont need to do that
02:51 PM rue_mohr: so, you seem to want to write a config to generate the result instead of software
02:51 PM rue_mohr: yea, i mean, if I'm going to code it in php, why not just code it in C
02:52 PM rue_mohr: there isn't really a difference is there
02:52 PM rue_mohr: maybe its cause your able to see past the process now
02:54 PM rue_mohr: its the ability to walk and simulate the results thats missing from the whole set
02:54 PM rue_mohr: well you were talking about writing a simulator that would load the binaries anyhow
02:58 PM rue_mohr: we have actaully been wrestling with the same problem since basic
02:58 PM rue_mohr: bit splicing
02:58 PM rue_mohr: thats why we rewrote the program
02:59 PM rue_mohr: dude, that program you sent moon, you DO remember you rewrote that for linux right?
02:59 PM rue_mohr: o...
02:59 PM rue_mohr: haha
02:59 PM rue_mohr: but bit splicing, we need a function for that
02:59 PM rue_mohr: so many we write a C library for doing this then
02:59 PM rue_mohr: maybe
02:59 PM rue_mohr: and a simulator
03:00 PM rue_mohr: I think the simulator might be the more valued part
03:00 PM rue_mohr: ok, but write me a thing for specifying a bit-split on a var
03:00 PM rue_mohr: do it like vhdl
03:00 PM rue_mohr: don't follow
03:01 PM rue_mohr: no, I dont either
03:01 PM rue_mohr: ok, so how about
03:01 PM rue_mohr: value = A[0-2,5,8]
03:02 PM rue_mohr: aka 5 bits
03:02 PM rue_mohr: yea
03:02 PM rue_mohr: how about just bitstrings then
03:03 PM rue_mohr: we need to know what their of
03:03 PM rue_mohr: no, you just need to know how to make them
03:03 PM rue_mohr: this is part of that ugly thing I declined to do before
03:03 PM rue_mohr: yup
03:03 PM rue_mohr: I argued that there was no point
03:03 PM rue_mohr: and now there is a point
03:05 PM rue_mohr: can I count the enum'd states in a ... type?
03:21 PM rue_mohr: no
03:21 PM rue_mohr: but, we can get the highest value and work out how many bits that takes
03:26 PM rue_mohr: is there a generic way of phrasing a bit splice like that
03:26 PM rue_mohr: not if its requiring intermediate shifts
03:46 PM rue_shop2: bitSplice(uint64_t in, uint16_t out, uint8_t bit0, ... )
03:47 PM rue_shop2: if I were a robot, the temp outside would not be an issue
03:47 PM rue_shop2: I have so many things I need to do
03:47 PM aandrew: wow these cheap worktables from Pricess Auto are shit
03:49 PM aandrew: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/220-lb-foldable-workbench/A-p8667297e
03:50 PM aandrew: if you take that little metal rod at the bottom and cut some slots into it you can slide two cotter pins in on either side to help ensure it won't pop out when you kick it accidentally
03:50 PM aandrew: and ideally, those tables should be 8-12" wider
03:50 PM aandrew: they'll be good for hte kids, which is what I bought them for though
04:02 PM Tom_L: the tin legs are probably paper thin too
04:02 PM Tom_L: rue_shop2, got all your bits in a row yet?
04:05 PM rue_mohr: no, but I know what I need to do
04:06 PM rue_mohr: Im going to do outside things while there is still ligt
04:06 PM rue_mohr: maybe I shouldn't use ...
04:07 PM rue_mohr: use some kinda terminated array
04:07 PM rue_mohr: maybe if the indexes are signed I can make -1 a end flag
04:08 PM rue_mohr: lots of the PALs can only handle like less than 4 terms
09:20 PM TermMoon: rue_mohr: one is the lonliest #
09:20 PM rue_mohr: TermMoon,
09:20 PM rue_mohr: walk talking to james
09:20 PM rue_mohr: I was talking to james
09:21 PM rue_mohr: Tom_L, I suppose if I'm gonna use that stuff as a mold, I need to do it long before I'm gonna cast it
09:22 PM Tom_L: what's cure time on it?
09:23 PM rue_mohr: 1 hour for normal use
09:23 PM rue_mohr: they imply its not water resistant
09:23 PM rue_mohr: I dont think I got the stuff I was expecting to
09:23 PM rue_mohr: I'm sure there was silicone rated to 1200c
09:23 PM Tom_L: what does that tube say for temp?
09:24 PM rue_mohr: 1093c
09:24 PM rue_mohr: but it doesn't say its silicone, says its cement
09:25 PM Tom_L: is black rtv higher than red or vise versa?
09:25 PM rue_mohr: i think red is higher
09:25 PM Tom_L: Temperature range of -65F to 650F intermittent
09:25 PM Tom_L: not high enough
09:26 PM rue_mohr: this says "resists temperature up to 2000F"
09:26 PM rue_mohr: 660c is so far under the bar it should be rind
09:26 PM rue_mohr: fine
09:26 PM rue_mohr: I keep mising keys
09:27 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vitcas-High-Temperature-Heat-Resistant-Silicone-Sealant-up-to-300c-310ml-Black-/141344065078
09:27 PM Tom_L: 300c
09:28 PM Tom_L: https://www.fluesystems.com/shop/high-temperature-black-silicone-enviromgraf.html
09:31 PM Tom_L: https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Make-a-High-Temp-Silicone-RTV-Mold/
10:10 PM rue_mohr: huh
10:52 PM rue_mohr: I'm gonna try digitally switching the speed of a 555
10:57 PM rue_mohr: oops, 1M