#garfield Logs
Nov 12 2020
#garfield Calendar
08:09 AM rue_mohr: polprog, you must be awake by now
08:15 AM polprog: yes
08:15 AM polprog: im still on the lecture, 50 mins left..
08:15 AM polprog: what's up?
08:15 AM rue_mohr: just sayin good morning
08:45 AM rue_mohr: I'm starting to be able to understand the jed files
08:49 AM polprog: its a fuse map
08:49 AM rue_mohr: yea
08:49 AM rue_mohr: and the index is in the datasheet
08:49 AM rue_mohr: er, not index
08:49 AM rue_mohr: ledgend
08:51 AM rue_mohr: I think that phppld could have been better implemented in python
08:52 AM rue_mohr: perl too, but easier in python
08:52 AM polprog: well, its unusual to do it in php
08:52 AM rue_mohr: yea, it looks like a 'use what I know'
08:52 AM rue_mohr: and it took some clever work
08:52 AM polprog: yep
08:53 AM rue_mohr: my system has 1 advantage, persistent variables.
08:53 AM rue_mohr: and a few disadvantaves
08:53 AM rue_mohr: all from my math library
08:53 AM rue_mohr: I'm wondering if I should make it *just* binary output
08:53 AM rue_mohr: there are enough tools available for post-converting if needed
08:54 AM rue_mohr: I also think I can make a complex state machine for doing fourier transforms
08:55 AM rue_mohr: 3 or 4 roms
08:55 AM rue_mohr: and a ram
08:55 AM rue_mohr: not sure if I should bother tho
08:56 AM rue_mohr: 300ns per calc?
08:57 AM rue_mohr: well, 300ns per complex multiply and sum
08:57 AM polprog: may be slowish
08:57 AM rue_mohr: complex multiply at 3.3Mhz with slow roms
08:58 AM rue_mohr: say, 8 samples, is 24
08:59 AM rue_mohr: 7.2us to compute a 8 sample fft
08:59 AM rue_mohr: I dont know what the performance was on my avr one
08:59 AM rue_mohr: but it kept up with the adc
09:01 AM rue_mohr: I dont think my 11.11 spending was over $60
09:01 AM rue_mohr: it looks like this year, most sellers just shuffled item prices to shipping prices
09:02 AM rue_mohr: I liked it when ali told you the sum before you were paying
09:06 AM Tom_L: late start to the day
09:06 AM rue_mohr: indeed, your usually up so early
09:06 AM Tom_L: well, after the 4 am one
09:07 AM Tom_L: maybe i'll cut some wood later today
09:09 AM rue_mohr: haha, I thought of an axe first
09:10 AM rue_mohr: fail
09:10 AM Tom_L: i did my share of that years ago
09:10 AM Tom_L: built a log splitter from scratch
09:11 AM Tom_L: those pics would be on film if i still have em
09:11 AM rue_mohr: ok, kitty litter box, garbage...
09:11 AM rue_mohr: I need state machine applications
09:12 AM rue_mohr: would help if I were doing any electronics projects
09:12 AM Tom_L: or electromechanical
09:12 AM rue_mohr: its plausable for me to write jed files for GALs
09:13 AM rue_mohr: but the missing link is reducing math equations
09:13 AM Tom_L: i think it was PLC that jt programs
09:13 AM rue_mohr: yep
09:14 AM Tom_L: he's got cables etc for many different ones
09:14 AM rue_mohr: yea the older ones need those
09:14 AM rue_mohr: the new ones are ethernet programmable
09:15 AM Tom_L: back then it would have been ether who?
09:16 AM Tom_L: i'll show you one he converted if i can find it
09:23 AM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/images/customers/Foxy/spoke-lathe-01.jpg
09:23 AM Tom_L: he automated that ww1 vintage machine recently
09:23 AM Tom_L: trying to find the yt for it
09:24 AM rue_mohr: was it cam and relay control orig?
09:24 AM rue_mohr: limit switches
09:24 AM Tom_L: mechanical
09:24 AM Tom_L: i'm not sure
09:24 AM Tom_L: makes hammer handles now
09:25 AM rue_mohr: huge teeth
09:25 AM rue_mohr: looks dangerous as hell too
09:26 AM rue_mohr: I wonder what the upper arms used to do
09:26 AM Tom_L: they were built between 1875 and 1910
09:26 AM rue_mohr: be smart or limbless
09:26 AM Tom_L: kids today wouldn't make it
09:26 AM rue_mohr: its had a lot of mods
09:27 AM Tom_L: the guy has several and already want's another one done
09:27 AM rue_mohr: who else is gonna make all the hammer handles?
09:29 AM Tom_L: made wagon wheel spokes originally
09:31 AM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/images/customers/Foxy/spoke-lathe-04.jpg
09:31 AM Tom_L: feeder & stuff he added
09:32 AM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/images/customers/Foxy/spoke-lathe-03.jpg
09:32 AM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/images/customers/Foxy/20201022_132909.mp4
09:33 AM rue_mohr: there must have been a big heavy overhead thing on them
09:34 AM Tom_L: ?
09:34 AM Tom_L: the operator hand loaded them
09:35 AM Tom_L: definitely wanna keep your limbs out of there
09:36 AM rue_mohr: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/unnamed.jpg
09:37 AM rue_mohr: looks like another cutter
09:37 AM Tom_L: he said some had an overhead attachment
09:37 AM rue_mohr: didn't see oilers on this
09:37 AM rue_mohr: his
09:38 AM Tom_L: the next one he's doing has that
09:39 AM rue_mohr: oops, have to watch clock for start of class
09:40 AM Tom_L: i gotta leave in a while too
09:41 AM Tom_L: class a live feed?
09:42 AM rue_mohr: yup
09:42 AM rue_mohr: with live questions
09:42 AM Tom_L: so you're not working during the course?
09:42 AM rue_mohr: nope
09:43 AM rue_mohr: unemployment income
09:43 AM Tom_L: for this or covid?
09:43 AM rue_mohr: for school
09:43 AM Tom_L: you gonna go back to the same shop?
09:44 AM rue_mohr: yup
09:45 AM rue_mohr: if they dont destroy the place before I get back
09:45 AM Tom_L: :)
10:06 AM aandrew: oooh
10:06 AM aandrew: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74axc4t245.pdf
10:07 AM aandrew: that's a nice device!
10:08 AM aandrew: bidirectional (by direction pin), voltage translation, and if one rail is not present, the output on the other side is HiZ
10:09 AM Tom_L: google GTL2003PW
10:09 AM Tom_L: series too
10:10 AM Tom_L: from 2 to many bits wide
10:10 AM Tom_L: i used them on my programmers
01:03 PM rue_mohr: hahaha its 4 bit!
01:40 PM rue_mohr: and its funny polprog I could probably make one of those from the panasonic bits and peices I have here
01:41 PM polprog: yeah, specifically pinged ya cause i know you do phones :)
01:44 PM polprog: also, i think i saw kiwa have a very similar one
01:47 PM polprog: ah, no he has a 206, i have a D208
01:47 PM polprog: his is analog
01:47 PM polprog: now where the heck do i get the dupont connectors
01:53 PM rue_mohr: china :/
01:54 PM aandrew: polprog: yeah, get 'em from amazon or ali
01:54 PM polprog: hmm
01:54 PM polprog: i guess
01:54 PM aandrew: they're cheap, I grabbed a little kit of cheap-ass dupont connectors (1x1 -> 2x20) with pins for like $20
01:55 PM aandrew: female dupont is good, I quite dislike male dupont
01:55 PM aandrew: mostly because the pins are prone to breaking
01:58 PM polprog: hmm
01:58 PM polprog: oh,these are like regular jumpers
01:58 PM polprog: i guess i have some 4 pin ones to spare
01:58 PM polprog: why the hell use these on a pbx tho
05:09 PM rue_mohr: here they use tel jacks on small ones
05:09 PM rue_mohr: but usually centronics
05:20 PM polprog: you mean the 25 pair connectors?
05:21 PM polprog: RJ21
06:38 PM polprog: hmm, looks like i can use that box as an ISDN NT1
06:39 PM rue_mohr: my shop file server really does not want to be backed up
06:39 PM polprog: http://crajkumar.tripod.com/isdn/chapter7.1.html
06:39 PM rue_mohr: during the first try, the backup drive died
06:39 PM polprog: im gonna go for the multipoint connection
06:39 PM rue_mohr: so i put a new one in, then the kernel kept panicing
06:39 PM rue_mohr: so I moved it to another machine on the network and am doign the backup via nfs
06:40 PM rue_mohr: yup 25 pairs
06:40 PM polprog: hm so i wonder
06:40 PM polprog: if i had two devices
06:40 PM polprog: or rather
06:40 PM rue_mohr: but just to a connector lock beside the system
06:40 PM polprog: two ISDN TAs (terminals)
06:40 PM rue_mohr: would you like the programming codes to do something with it
06:41 PM rue_mohr: I dont know there is much to do
06:41 PM polprog: i have the manual
06:41 PM rue_mohr: a set manual or a system manual
06:41 PM polprog: umm
06:41 PM rue_mohr: *#1234 is the system login
06:41 PM polprog: "operating instructions"
06:41 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/phone_stand/phone_stand.jpg
06:41 PM rue_mohr: it might predata what i know
06:41 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/phone_stand/phone_stand1.jpg
06:41 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/phone_stand/phone_stand2.jpg
06:42 PM rue_mohr: did youcut it today?
06:42 PM Tom_L: yep
06:42 PM rue_mohr: oh there go
06:42 PM rue_mohr: looks good
06:42 PM Tom_L: it was a quick job
06:42 PM Tom_L: nothing fancy
06:42 PM rue_mohr: :) I take it the new motor powered right thru that wood?
06:42 PM rue_mohr: heh
06:42 PM Tom_L: yep
06:42 PM polprog: what im thinking about would be to try and dial one TA from another, so let's say, i have a computer with an ISDN TA in it and i try to dial a phone on the multipoint thats connected to an NT1
06:42 PM Tom_L: ice cold too
06:43 PM polprog: im not sure if i can connect an NT1 to the ISDN port on the PBX
06:43 PM Tom_L: used a 3/8" cutter which i normally wouldn't do
06:43 PM polprog: probably not
06:43 PM rue_mohr: its just 2 line pots isn't it?
06:45 PM polprog: no, from what i understand it's got 1 or 2 ISDN lines for use as the CO connection and 8 extensions
06:45 PM rue_mohr: oh
06:45 PM rue_mohr: 1d2b?
06:45 PM polprog: then, it has the additional ISDN line card installed and in the manual it says that the ISDN interface can be used to connect Terminal adapters like faxes and computers to the PBX
06:45 PM polprog: 1d2b?
06:47 PM polprog: so im a bit lost, it has two 8p8c jacks labeled ISDN1 and 2, and on one hand it behaves as a network termination (between your phones over pots and the CO over ISDN), and on the other hand you can connect your ISDN stuff like an ISDN phone/fax or computer to it
06:47 PM polprog: so.. is the ISDN jack an input, output or depends
06:47 PM aandrew: yes 2b1d is the typical ISDN BRI setup
06:47 PM aandrew: two 64kbps "clean" voice channels and signalling on the D channel
06:47 PM polprog: ah that
06:48 PM aandrew: ISDN PRI is 23b1d
06:48 PM aandrew: then (if I remember correctly) you can use NFAS to group up to (I think) 7 PRIs so you lose only 1 channel for siganling instead of 7
06:48 PM polprog: because the isdn kit i have now is one NT1, one ISDN card for the PC and that PBX
06:48 PM aandrew: DS0 = 1 64k data channel
06:49 PM aandrew: DS1 = 24 data channels
06:49 PM aandrew: DS2 = 7 DS1s
06:49 PM aandrew: DS3 = 4 DS2s
06:49 PM rue_mohr: isdn D and B channels
06:49 PM polprog: https://i.imged.pl/modem-telefonica-nt1-plus-2b1q-modem-telefonica-nt1-plus-2b1q-3-3.jpg that's my NT1 connections
06:49 PM rue_mohr: the b channels used for audio, the D for control
06:49 PM aandrew: yep
06:49 PM polprog: the 3 holes in the U iface is POTS
06:49 PM polprog: the S iface matches the plug on the PBX
06:50 PM aandrew: and the "raw" DS1 has no D channel so you get 24 channels for data but they're not 64 bit clean (robbed bit signalling)
06:50 PM polprog: also got this https://www.isdncards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/AVM-Fritz-PCI-ISDN-diag-v1-e1427213210358.jpg
06:50 PM polprog: that also has the 8p8c jack, S interface
06:50 PM aandrew: all modems > 33k6 or 48k (can't remember) did some pretty amazing signal gymnastics to figure out when the channel was stealing the LSB for signalling to squeeze every last little bit of bandwidth out of the circuit
06:51 PM aandrew: not just talking preemphasis and line channel equalization, but actual "ok when does my signal integrity dip so I know not to code as much data for that timeslot?"
06:51 PM polprog: so the question is, how do i connect these... card <-> PBX <-> NT1 ?
06:51 PM rue_mohr: is the card supported by asterisk?
06:51 PM polprog: i cant find a wiring diagram for the multipoint bus described here http://crajkumar.tripod.com/isdn/chapter7.1.html
06:52 PM polprog: i think it is, its pretty well supported in linux
06:52 PM aandrew: that looks like a cologne chip card
06:52 PM polprog: but i dont want to run voip over it
06:52 PM polprog: i want data
06:52 PM polprog: ppp or the like
06:52 PM rue_mohr: I suspect the drivers are generic
06:52 PM rue_mohr: asterisk uses levels
06:52 PM rue_mohr: if its got the driver, you can probably do *things* with it
06:53 PM polprog: i think i got the drivers
06:53 PM rue_mohr: on proper linux software, there are no reasonable limitations
06:53 PM polprog: but i could not test them as connecting the card to NT1 does not make sense
06:53 PM polprog: i dont have an ISDN line either, i dont even have a POTS line
06:54 PM polprog: so with the PBX best i can do is dial *some number* over the ISDN (with isdnctl suppsoedly), for example an extension number
06:54 PM polprog: question is, if i have another NT1 at that extension will that ring?
06:54 PM aandrew: these are things I don't know
06:54 PM rue_shop1: ringing is just a D channel message to ring
06:54 PM polprog: even that is good
06:55 PM polprog: frankly even if i can make a pots phone ring, either connected to a pots extension or the NT1 via the other ISDN jack ill be happy
06:55 PM rue_shop1: have you every heard of a project that uses a blackberry screen?
06:56 PM rue_shop1: polprog, asterisk
06:56 PM rue_shop1: the system should be able to take analog ophones
06:56 PM polprog: i played with asterisk
06:56 PM polprog: but eventually i want data comms, not phone
06:57 PM polprog: idk, say one computer talking to another over ISDN
06:57 PM polprog: just for the kicks, i can connect them with an ethernet cable in no time ;)
06:58 PM polprog: " In the extended passive configuration, upto eight TEs may be grouped together at one end of a bus, upto 1 km from the NT. " :)
06:58 PM polprog: i think only lora and and fibreoptic beats that :P
07:03 PM polprog: eugh
07:03 PM polprog: 2 pm
07:03 PM polprog: im stayin gup late again
07:03 PM polprog: :/
07:03 PM polprog: goodnight
07:04 PM Tom_L: you're young. you'll bounce back
07:04 PM polprog: tomorrow is thursday at the uni (yesterday was nat holiday)
07:04 PM polprog: i hav to be up at 0800 again....
07:05 PM polprog: :/
07:05 PM polprog: night
07:05 PM Tom_L: i have to be up at 4am
07:05 PM Tom_L: i don't feel sorry for you :)
07:05 PM Tom_L: what time is it there?
07:18 PM TermMoon: !
07:22 PM rue_shop1: yea power blianks
07:22 PM TermMoon: yea
07:24 PM rue_shop1: ok the lid is on the jukebox
07:24 PM rue_shop1: thats one less thing cluttering the floor
07:24 PM TermMoon: a drop in an ocean XD
07:25 PM rue_shop1: one drop at a time
07:25 PM TermMoon: good man
07:25 PM rue_shop1: hey while we were doing lvdt s in school today
07:25 PM rue_shop1: I realized I made a coil winder
07:25 PM rue_shop1: I can do 800 turns on a spool
07:25 PM TermMoon: ok...
07:25 PM rue_shop1: I shold be able to make lvdts
07:26 PM TermMoon: define
07:26 PM rue_shop1: linear variable differential transfomer
07:26 PM rue_shop1: position sensor
07:27 PM TermMoon: proximity to reactince???
07:27 PM rue_shop1: no
07:27 PM rue_shop1: differential
07:27 PM TermMoon: :(
07:27 PM rue_shop1: the core moves to create an imlabalance in opposing windings
07:27 PM TermMoon: call me
07:28 PM rue_shop1: no
07:28 PM rue_shop1: my hands are busy
07:28 PM Tom_L: haha
07:28 PM TermMoon: fucker
07:28 PM Tom_L: he would call me if i asked
07:28 PM rue_shop1: need to make a new current sensor for the -power supply
07:28 PM TermMoon: :P
07:29 PM rue_shop1: oh funny thing too,
07:29 PM rue_shop1: the monitor was plugged into the ups, but not the jukebox
07:29 PM rue_shop1: :/
07:29 PM TermMoon: HA
07:30 PM rue_shop1: I think the fileserver has a motherboard issue
07:30 PM rue_shop1: again...
07:30 PM TermMoon: allways
08:41 PM Tom_L: moon ever get a fpga to play with?
09:23 PM rue_mohr: prolly not yet
09:23 PM rue_mohr: my things from about that time have not arrived yet
09:25 PM Tom_L: oh did he order one?
09:26 PM rue_mohr: as far as I know
09:27 PM rue_mohr: I think he was income venting
09:29 PM Tom_L: had too much?
09:31 PM rue_mohr: i think so